The Best Wrestler of All Time

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, so I thought I'd try it anyway.

I am just interested in who some of you wrestling fans around here think is the greatest wrestler in the history of professional wrestling. Personally, I think Bret Hart was the best.

The guy could actually wrestle, as he was gifted with incredible technical ability; he could work the crowd both as a face and a heel; and he was able to make mediocre wrestlers look good when they wrestled him.

I would have loved to see a wrestling match between Bret Hart and Kurt Angle. It would sure beat the heck out of some of the crap they've put on television for the past few years.

"I am the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be!" - Bret "Hitman" Hart

[Leo656]

In terms of technical skill and actual ability, then Bret is the best. But where it *really* counts, Hogan by far gets credit. He carried the WWF on his back in the 1980s, and no matter what Vince McMahon says, it was Hogan who helped elevate wrestling. He created the stage on which everyone who came after him could perform. Without Hogan, the WWF/WWE would most likely not even exist today. He was the one who put people in the seats, who sold the merchandise, who got people to order the PPVs. And he didn't do it by just staring in front of a camera talking, he did it by connecting with the audience and telling a story in the ring, which is altogether more important than actual technical skill in pro wrestling.

"Nobody could ever say they were better than him, he was always the best..." -Bret Hart... discussing Hulk Hogan :)

[cqb101]

I say Hogan.

[InsaneZane]

I say Hogan, but Randy Savage should be on that list

[liltimmyw]

Bret Hart. Everyone likes Hogan so much, and he was good 10 years ago. He's sucked for the longest time.

[cqb101]

That's why it's best wrestler of ALL TIME. It doesn't really matter if he sucks now.

[Wingnut]

Doink the Clown

[Ninjatron]

Whooooo!

It's the Nature Boy!

Rick Flair is the best.

Sayonara.

[Jephael]

I can't really say I know much about these guys, but I used to be such a big fan of Hogan as a kid so I'll have to pick him.

[malignant]

HOGAN?...uh..no. Hogan had nothing more then a gimmick that at the time people fell in love with....Hogan sucks on the mic..he repeativly says the same ****..brother !...he knows a total of maybe..5 wrestling moves......and hes always just landed in the right spot at the right time. WWE with the hulkamania gimmick...WCW with the NWO..best wrestler of all time?...hell no...thats dumb saying that...

Ric flair....awesome on the mic..and can actually wrestle. He also carry WWF at one time...and guess what?..He also carried..NWA..and WCW....hes done alot more then hogan ever could....

theres also other wrestlers that come before hogan....but Ric flairs the man when it comes to actually doing what hes done for the business and the fans.

[EZweasel]

hogan is awsum on the mic. hes deffinatly my favorite overall. as far as wrestling and gimick.i like his wrestling because he can do anything and even if he messes up it looks awsum! i like the newer hogan beter than the old one. theres realy no one who can come close and hey ive wrestled before. i went to wrestling school. i know about wrestling. i was trained by lodi.

[malignant]

he can do anything?..hahahaha

name atleast 10 moves you've seen him do...other then a punch..a sleeper..a boot to the face..and a leg drop...

please...thats funny.

[Shellfox]

Hulk Hogan, with out him wrestling as we know it wouldn't exist. He is the best of the best, ganted his skills were limited by todays standards, but he has a presence that makes him the best.

Past hogan only 2 really come close, Andre the Giant (may he rest in peace) and Mick Foley

The 3 together make up the best of the best of the wrestilng world, the old school, the transition, and the ............ Ok I have no Clue what Mick repersents, but hes cool as hell, and he gave us the greatest Hell In a Cell EVER

[cqb101]

HOGAN?...uh..no. Hogan had nothing more then a gimmick that at the time people fell in love with....Hogan sucks on the mic..he repeativly says the same sh**..brother !...he knows a total of maybe..5 wrestling moves......and hes always just landed in the right spot at the right time. WWE with the hulkamania gimmick...WCW with the NWO..best wrestler of all time?...hell no...thats dumb saying that...

Ric flair....awesome on the mic..and can actually wrestle. He also carry WWF at one time...and guess what?..He also carried..NWA..and WCW....hes done alot more then hogan ever could....

theres also other wrestlers that come before hogan....but Ric flairs the man when it comes to actually doing what hes done for the business and the fans.

Incase you didn't realize, being good on the mic has nothing to do with being a good wrestler.

[malignant]

in case you didnt notice...i mentioned everything on what it takes to be a good wrestler...meaning whats good for the business and the fans.....

read the whole paragraph.

[XERO]

What about the Undertaker? He should be included!

The Dead Man himself, the only wrestler I was SCARED of when I was a kid.
Remember when he put the Ultimate Warrior inside a casket and locked it? I couldn't sleep for a week. :o

I say the Undertaker is the best wrestler. He has the coolest finishing moves: Choke slam, the "Old Skool" Tightrope, and the dreaded "Tombstone" Piledriver. Even though he didn't say much back then (Paul Bearer did all the talking) When he did talk, You could feel his voice vibrating in your heart.

"Rest....in peeeeeeace!" :evil:

And who can forget the "Funeral March" Theme song? Scaaaaary...

Plus, he is the innovator of the Casket Match, Inferno Match, and Hell in a Cell match. Name some wrestlers who could do that, besides Mick Foley. :D

Undertaker wins it hands down.

[Leo656]

Ahem.

This is a list of some of the moves I've seen Hogan do.

1. Axe Bomber (clothesline/elbow)
2. Vertical suplex
3. Abdominal stretch
4. Inside cradle/small package
5. Belly to Back Suplex
6. Schoolboy roll-up
7. Drop toehold
8. 3/4 Nelson into a pinning combination
9. Second-rope double axehandle
10. Top rope double axehandle (he used to occasionally go up top in Japan)
11. Seated rear chinlock ("Camel Clutch")
12. Power Bomb
13. Piledriver
14. Short Arm-scissors takedown submission
15. Figure Four Leglock
16. Ace Crusher ("Diamond Cutter")
17. Running Ace Crusher
18. Powerslam
19. Backbreaker
20. Enzuigiri (one of Owen Hart's favorite moves, jumping kick to the back of the head)
21. Bearhug
22. Running Clothesline in the corner
23. Rear chinlock (not the same move as 11)
24. Two-handed Chokeslam
25. Running kneedrop
26. Side headlock
27. Side headlock takedown
28. Big Boot
29. Atomic Leg Drop

That was off the top of my head. I'm sure if I went back and watched all my tapes I'd find more. Bottom line, I just mentioned 27 moves besides the "big two", and you only asked for ten. Most of 'em are "big man" moves, but it's still fairly a lot for a guy his size. I mean how many moves does A-Train know? Or Test? Plus, Hogan was trained by Matsuda and used to train with Olympic alternate Brad Rheinghans. I'm sure he knows a ton of moves we've never even seen him use, mostly because knowing what I do of how Matsuda trains people, if he DID use some of those moves, he'd end up seriously hurting a lot of people.

As for who contributed more to the industry, even Flair himself has said many times over that nobody did more for wrestling than Hogan did. Every promotion he wrestled in became successful just by association, and the AWA died because he left and a whole hell of a lot of people followed him because they knew the guy was gonna be money wherever he went. He was never "in the right place at the right time", he MADE it that way. He sure wasn't in the right place at the right time in the AWA, the responses he got from crowds left Verne Gagne no choice but to push him. That's why McMahon was smart enough to take him away for himself and buid the WWF around him back in the 1980s. I don't believe for one second that he could have pushed anyone else to that spot, there was nobody else back then that could have done it.

And without Hogan, there would be no Wrestlemania, and without Wrestlemania, the WWF would have never survived the 1980s, wrestling never would have gotten so popular, Turner likely never would have bought out Crockett Promotions, and the second wrestling boom of the 1980s would never have happened because both the the WWF and WCW would have been as dead as the AWA.

I have all the respect in the world for Ric Flair, he contributed a lot to the industry and put on a ton of classic matches, and anyone who denies that is either ignorant or misguided. Guys like Hogan and Flair are far and away a cut above anyone else. And as far as technical skill, Flair is better than Hogan (though I think Bret Hart is better than Flair, he just lacked charisma), but as far as who did more for the business as a whole, Hogan was a consistent draw on a larger scale for a longer period of time than Flair was. Sadly, Flair's main stage was the NWA and later WCW, and both were perceived by many ignorant people as being "bush league" before Hogan got involved with the company in 1994. And when they were finally in the same company together, Hogan sold a lot more tickets than Flair did overall (but not surprisingly, they did the best business when they were wrestling each other).

Both Hogan and Flair contributed a lot to the industry, but Hogan contributed more.

[XERO]

Hey, I was just wondering: How EXACTLY did Hogan come onto the wrestling scene, especially WWF?

It's like he was just there, and got popular.

Goes anyone know? :-?

[liltimmyw]

Hulk Hogan = overrated

[Shellfox]

I can't believe I'm repeating my self here

Are you all forgeting Andre the Giant? One of the greatest men to ever be part of the Wresting world, he was teh old school, with out him, Hogan might not be were he is today. Andre pasted the torch to Hogan, Andre let Hogan win at Wrestle Mania 3 (even says so in Hogan book). I will not take away from Hogan accomplishments, and the 2 are a big like apples and Oragnes, but Andre is a contender for the Greatest wrestler ever.

May he rest in peace

[Leo656]

"Hogan = Overrated"
So's your opinion. When you get paid 5 million bucks a year to do ANYthing, then you can call people overrated.

Does anyone know how Hogan came onto the scene?! (Cracks knuckles) Ah, gather 'round my son, and I shall tell you a tale, one that began in sunny Florida back in the mid-1970s...

Terry Bollea was a lifelong wrestling fan. He was, through all of high school and for some time after, bass player in several rock and roll bands. His bands played at several clubs in the Tampa area, many of which were frequented by some of the local wrestlers. So he knew people. Eventually, he got it into his head that he might make some money as a wrestler. He was recommended to pro wrestler and trainer Hiro Matsuda, known as one of the toughest trainers around at that point. Hogan's first day was basically as follows: The trainers had him run drills until he was ready to throw up, then Matsuda dragged him into the ring and snapped his ankle.

Back then, not just anybody could come off the street and be a wrestler. There was no garbage like "Tough Enough". You had to be respected by the other wrestlers if you even wanted to have a shot, and to earn their respect you had to be tough. Matsuda wanted to see how dedicated Terry was. Terry came back once his ankle healed, earning him the respect of his trainers, but things didn't get much easier. For the next six months, Hogan was barely allowed one offensive move as the trainers put him in submission hold after submission hold. The way they taught back then was "If a guy leaves his arm open, break it. If you get a guy in a headlock, put the bone of your wrist into his temple and squeeze..." In short, they taught people how to hurt people *for real*. For a year, all Hogan learned was how to break bones and gouge eyes. Then, when they thought he was "ready", they let him in that wrestling was staged. The point of their training him the way they did was two-fold. First off, they wanted him to be able to handle himself in any situation in the ring, and secondly, they wanted him to be so unstoppable physically that nobody could pin him unless he wanted them to.

Once his training was finished, Hogan bounced around several territories and ended up in Memphis as Terry Boulder. Back then, "The Incredible Hulk" tv show with Lou Ferrigno was popular, and someone who saw Hogan commented that he "looked bigger than The Hulk". So he became Terry "The Hulk" Boulder. After a while in Memphis and a few trips to Japan, he eventually ended up in the WWF, then owned by Vince McMahon Sr., who gave him the name Hulk Hogan. He hung around for about a year in 1980 as a heel (bad guy) and had a couple big feuds with Andre the Giant and Bob Backlund. He left the WWF when he got a call to be in Rocky 3. McMahon didn't want Hogan to take the role, but Hogan was insistent, so McMahon fired him. Hogan played Thunderlips in Rocky 3 and became pretty much a celebrity right there.

As with any big movie, Rocky 3 created quite a buzz, and a lot of that Buzz was on Hogan. His name reached the ear of Verne Gagne in Minnesota, owner of the AWA. He brought Hogan in as a face (good guy) and had him feud with Nick Bockwinkle over the AWA Title. The AWA was where "Hulkamania" and all its catchphrases and t-shirts started, they just didn't have a logo yet as Hogan made the shirts himself. Hogan became more and more popular, especially after Rocky 3 came out, but he never ended up with the Title. Politics in wrestling were a big deal back then, and Gagne wanted his son Greg (who was not very talented) to win the Title. Hogan got fed up with it, and when he got an offer from Vince McMahon Jr. to return to the WWF in 1983, he took it. In his final AWA match, he appeared to beat Bockwinkle for the belt, only to have the desicion reversed on a bogus technicality. The fans in the arena rioted.

Hogan took another trip to Japan in 1983 before he went back to the WWF and took part in the first ever International Wrestling Grand Prix Tournament. Hogan was already much-loved in Japan and had recorded an album there. The IWGP Title is basically Japan's version of the World Title, and in fact is more respected throughout the world than the WWF/WWE World Title. Hogan himself has said on many occasions (most notably in 1993, when his words got him in trouble with Vince) that the IWGP Title is the "Real World's Title" and that the WWF Title is "a toy." Hogan beat the legendary Antonio Inoki in the finals, knocking him out of the ring and unconscious with the Axe Bomber to become the first ever IWGP Champion.

After that, he went back to the WWF and beat The Iron Sheik on January 24, 1984 at Madison Square Garden to become the WWF Champion, and the rest is pretty much history.

Anything else you'd like to know? :)

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Hey, I was just wondering: How EXACTLY did Hogan come onto the wrestling scene, especially WWF?

It's like he was just there, and got popular.

Goes anyone know? :-?

There is an A&E Biography on Hulk Hogan that can give you those answers (and more), but I'll see if I can remember.

He was part of a band and wanted to be in the music business first. But then, for some reason, he went down to where wrestlers train and was coaxed into the ring. A wrestler promptly snapped his leg like a twig . . . and Hogan was hooked.

When he was first in the WWF, he was a heel. He wore white trunks, and he had chest hair. But then, just like what happens to so many wrestlers, the fans started cheering him. And then when he beat the Iron Sheik for the title in 1984, Hulkamania was born.

I know I'm skipping a lot of details, but that's the gist of how he got into the business.

"What'cha gonna do?" - Hulk Hogan

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Whoops. Looks like Leo656 beat me to the punch. And his story is far more thorough. :lol:

"I came here to train, say my prayers, then kick your ass!" - Hulk Hogan, on one edition of Monday Nitro in 1999, after he was back in the red and gold.

[Leo656]

Heh I neglected to mention Hogan's heart-shaped chest hair on purpose. That was so horrible. :lol:

He also used the name "Sterling Golden" very briefly. Thankfully.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

There was a quote in this thread about how Hogan doesn't know any wrestling holds.

I remember when he wrestled Bret Hart on Monday Nitro in 1998, and he actually pulled off two incredibly technical moves. I don't think even the announcers knew he was going to do that. One of them said something along the lines of, "It's not that we didn't think he could mat wrestle, it's just that we didn't think he would."

Hogan knew what he was doing in the ring. And he was a legend far ahead of his time. And, no matter what anyone says, Hogan was the one who brought wrestling into the mainstream. I think wrestling might have made it eventually, but Hogan certainly fast-forwarded the movement by a decade or so.

"Yeeesssss!" - Hulk Hogan, when Roddy Piper asked him if he's take on Andre the Giant at WrestleMania III.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

I say Hogan, but Randy Savage should be on that list

Randy Savage was a great wrestler (some of his WWF matches are still considered ground-breaking to this day), but I don't think he ever was as good as he could have been.

He was always second fiddle to Hogan (even when he was the champion), and by the time Hogan was gone, the WWF wouldn't let him wrestle anymore, claiming he was too old.

WCW could have done more with him, and they used him well upon his arrival. But then he got saddled into the nWo, and his career tanked.

Randy Savage could have been one of the legends; but as it stands, he's just a really good wrestler.

"Oh, yeah!" - Randy Savage

[Leo656]

I have that Hogan/Bret match on tape. I loved how he basically controlled the entire match with *wrestling* and not brawling. He always did tend to use a few more technical moves against guys like Bret, Flair and DiBiase than he did against guys like Andre and Nash. Which makes sense. He wrestled against wrestlers and brawled against brawlers.

Oh, and I forgot to add "Side Russian Leg Sweep" to Hogan's list of moves.

As for Savage, I'll give the guy his due. He IS a legend. He was there, just like Piper and DiBiase and Snuka and all those others who were "greats" but fell just short of being "the BEST". He never really cut loose like he could have, but it sure wasn't for lack of trying. I personally think it was his mental instability, the fact that Randy Savage the character and Randy Poffo the person are basically the exact same guy, was what hurt him in the long run.

But I disagree that the nWo killed his career. In fact, I think joining the nWo was the best thing he could have done. He had already been smacked around by them for 6 months, he really had nothing else to do. And when he joined them, he had some of his best matches in years, especially his classic feud with Diamond Dallas Page, the feud Page claims made his career. His Wolfpac phase was a wash, but his return in 1999 after ACL surgery was pretty good. He was at his best as the wild, unpredictable heel instead of the hand-slapping "good guy".

I think he'd still be around somewhere if he hadn't priced himself out of the market. Savage's biggest problem is his attitude and his perception. He thinks he's AS big as Hogan... and he's not.

[That Matt Guy]

Lodi.

[Reznorite420]

Where's Mick Foley???????

[Shellfox]

appently the hardcore ledgend doesn't warrent a mention, which sucks cause his Hell in a Cell is the thing of ledgends, not to mention he married a model. And had naked elves running around in his book

And Al Snow should get a nod for having his toy pulled from Walmart for having a decapitaed womans head :lol:

And Once More

Where is Andre the giant

[That Matt Guy]

And why did Van Hammer get left off that list?

[Reznorite420]

Come on, nothing can beat one man having three seperate alter-egos/gimmicks in his career, some of them overlapping once in a while.

What makes Dude Love special is that he debuted IN MY HOMETOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*begins the Dude Love "knee-dance"*

[Leo656]

I respect Mick Foley, but I really don't think he honestly comes anywhere close to being one of the "greatest wrestlers of all time". He even goes into detail in his books about how he was never particularly talented, he just had a high threshold for pain. His biggest contribution to wrestling was falling off the Cell and almost getting killed, and retiring at 33 with brain damage.

If you call that being one of the greatest wrestlers ever, that's your opinion, but I personally don't see it. I respect him, but one of the greatest ever? I'd be hard-pressed to agree.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

appently the hardcore ledgend doesn't warrent a mention, which sucks cause his Hell in a Cell is the thing of ledgends, not to mention he married a model. And had naked elves running around in his book

And Al Snow should get a nod for having his toy pulled from Walmart for having a decapitaed womans head :lol:

And Once More

Where is Andre the giant

I tried to enter a slew of names, but my poll got cut off at Steve Austin.

"Everybody's got a price!" - Ted Dibiase

[That Matt Guy]

I was surprised to see no WCW wrestlers on there.

[Leo656]

ANd yet you left on Kama, "The Supreme Fighting Machine"? :lol:

I would have liked to see an actual serious "Greatest Wrestler" poll and a "Craziest Gimmick" poll. In fact, I might just do that one myself.

[Leo656]

I was surprised to see no WCW wrestlers on there.

Ric Flair was WCW's top star for most of his career. Aside from him, I'd say Sting deserved to be on the list.

[TMNTGUY4EVER]

well i think if were talkin best mat ability its got to be hogan but for strenght i have to say andre the giant but i think all around hogan is the best wrestler of all time. I think there should be more names on that such as mankind taker austin rock ect

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

As for Savage, I'll give the guy his due. He IS a legend. He was there, just like Piper and DiBiase and Snuka and all those others who were "greats" but fell just short of being "the BEST". He never really cut loose like he could have, but it sure wasn't for lack of trying. I personally think it was his mental instability, the fact that Randy Savage the character and Randy Poffo the person are basically the exact same guy, was what hurt him in the long run.

But I disagree that the nWo killed his career. In fact, I think joining the nWo was the best thing he could have done. He had already been smacked around by them for 6 months, he really had nothing else to do. And when he joined them, he had some of his best matches in years, especially his classic feud with Diamond Dallas Page, the feud Page claims made his career. His Wolfpac phase was a wash, but his return in 1999 after ACL surgery was pretty good. He was at his best as the wild, unpredictable heel instead of the hand-slapping "good guy".

I think he'd still be around somewhere if he hadn't priced himself out of the market. Savage's biggest problem is his attitude and his perception. He thinks he's AS big as Hogan... and he's not.

It just seemed that when Randy Savage joined the nWo, he got lost in the shuffle. He was just "one more guy" in the overly-saturated group. And he was in Hogan's shadow. Again.

Savage never got his just due in wrestling.

"There's nothin' like WWF action!" - Bobby Heenan

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

ANd yet you left on Kama, "The Supreme Fighting Machine"? :lol:

I would have liked to see an actual serious "Greatest Wrestler" poll and a "Craziest Gimmick" poll. In fact, I might just do that one myself.

I left names like Doink the Clown and Kama on the list as jokes. Because their characters were a joke.

I was glad when they got rid of the race car drivers, garbage men, and clowns and stopped treating the audience like 10-year-olds.

"Take a look at the Bad Guy!" - Razor Ramon

[That Matt Guy]

I was surprised to see no WCW wrestlers on there.

Ric Flair was WCW's top star for most of his career. Aside from him, I'd say Sting deserved to be on the list.

Yes Sting for sure, seeing how he is the only major WCW star to never set foot in a WWF ring. And of course, Disco Inferno and El Dandy.

[malignant]

see..now im going to give leo56his props...and now Believe that hogan belongs at the top of the list...close to my opinions...why?...cause when this thread started..it was nothing but a bunch of ignorant people....no offense intended...mentioning their favs..but not basing it on facts or realistic reasons why theyre the best. Leo56 came in and did that.....

and now hes shut me up...=]

for whoever mentioned Van hammer?..haha..thats exactly what im refering to..

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

well i think if were talkin best mat ability its got to be hogan but for strenght i have to say andre the giant but i think all around hogan is the best wrestler of all time. I think there should be more names on that such as mankind taker austin rock ect

For best mat ability, my pick is Bret Hart. After that, I would mention guys like Shawn Michaels and Dean Malenko and Kurt Angle and Owen Hart and Ric Flair and Chris Jericho.

"I said, 'Hell, they can't do it without the Nature Boy!' That's why I'm back." - Ric Flair, to Sting, upon returning to WCW in September, 1999

[That Matt Guy]

for whoever mentioned Van hammer?..haha..thats exactly what im refering to..

That was just a joke, pal.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

see..now im going to give leo56his props...and now Believe that hogan belongs at the top of the list...close to my opinions...why?...cause when this thread started..it was nothing but a bunch of ignorant people....no offense intended...mentioning their favs..but not basing it on facts or realistic reasons why theyre the best. Leo56 came in and did that.....

and now hes shut me up...=]

Bunch of ignorant people? No, I'm not offended. I don't get angry. But I am definitely one person who isn't ignorant when it comes to wrestling. Even though I don't watch it as much as I used to, I still know what's going on. I know my history.

I can tell you right now that Leo656 and I aren't ignorant. Not when it comes to wrestling.

But, again, no offense taken. :wink:

"What a manuever that was!" - Gorilla Monsoon, one of the greatest WWF broadcasters ever.

[Leo656]

As far as Savage being lost in the shuffle in the nWo, I feel obligated to point out that while Hogan (and I do love the guy, but I'm not afraid to criticize him) was off in Hollywood making movies and going six months without defending the WCW Title, Savage was headlining Pay-Per-Views all by himself. For about 4 months in 1997, DDP/Savage was WCW's top feud that headlined the shows, not Hogan - anyone. And the Savage/DDP matches were great, old-school brawls the likes of which fans hadn't seen in years, and proved you CAN have a good, brutal match without barb wire, fire, or throwing someone off a scaffold/cage.

Savage NEVER got lost in the shuffle... that's why the Wolfpac split happened. Savage, not Nash, was the first nWo member to break away from Hogan, entirely because he refused to blend into the background. If anything, the nWo Wolfpac split was what hurt him, because not only did he suffer an injury, but he was on the same team as f*cking Konnan.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

If anything, the nWo Wolfpac split was what hurt him, because not only did he suffer an injury, but he was on the same team as f*cking Konnan.

I remember thinking the same thing when the nWo Wolfpac were together. The only reason Konnan was over was because he was rubbing shoulders with guys like Savage, Sting and Lex Luger.

As soon as that group disbanded, so did Konnan's career. WCW considered putting him in the Filthy Animals as a career step-up? Please. The Filthy Animals were dead on arrival.

Konnan: "Oh la lay!"
Me: What'd he say?"

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

As far as Savage being lost in the shuffle in the nWo, I feel obligated to point out that while Hogan (and I do love the guy, but I'm not afraid to criticize him) was off in Hollywood making movies and going six months without defending the WCW Title, Savage was headlining Pay-Per-Views all by himself. For about 4 months in 1997, DDP/Savage was WCW's top feud that headlined the shows, not Hogan - anyone. And the Savage/DDP matches were great, old-school brawls the likes of which fans hadn't seen in years, and proved you CAN have a good, brutal match without barb wire, fire, or throwing someone off a scaffold/cage.

Diamond Dallas Page was a prime example of a guy who had to work his tail off to get where he was. If anybody earned their place in pro wrestling, it was him. And I don't think it hurt that he had a gorgeous wife in Kimberly, either.

I so wanted the match between her and David Flair at Mayhem 1999 to go somewhere. She was looking very fine.

And the comment about barb wire, fire and throwing someone off a scaffold. That's why Mick Foley didn't make the list. He's tough as hell, and I respect the heck out of him, but what he did wasn't wrestling. Wrestling is two guys exchanging holds, trying to outdo each other.

Clubbing guys over the head with a chair isn't wrestling. Any dingbat on the street can do that.

"Feel . . . the . . . BANG!" - Diamond Dallas Page

[Leo656]

I admire DDP for working hard to improve. He was God-Awful when he started out... and he admits as much. But he worked hard, learned the basics, picked up possibly the best finisher EVER in the Diamond Cutter ("Ya NEVER see it comin'!"), and went on to have great matches with everyone from Sting, Savage, Eddy Guerrero, Raven, Chris Benoit, and even Goldberg in a match that a lot of critics expected to be awful.

DDP's matches with Savage were some of my favorites in WCW... then his feud with Raven was more of the same classic brutality (he hit Raven with a VCR, for god's sake!), and his matches with Benoit in between proved that he could wrestle as well as brawl.

DDP isn't one of the best ever, but he's definitely one of my favorites and a true credit to wrestling.

[That Matt Guy]

then his feud with Raven was more of the same classic brutality (he hit Raven with a VCR, for god's sake!)

:lol: I remember that. There was also a time when DDP came out dressed as La Parka and wrestled Raven.

EDIT: Or maybe it was Savage, and not raven.

[Fugitoid Jones]

I had to say Hogan, but I don't have to say why, because it's been mentioned several thousands times already by everyone else who voted Hogan. I'm just glad no one said the Rock, cause he has no talent whatsoever. Kurt Angle is on his way to becoming one of the greats as well. Not only can the man wrestle extremely well, but he's amazingly funny on the mic.

[GK Punk]

Well for me personally, I have trouble picking between Hogan, Flair and Bret Hart. Each for their own reasons, of course... Leo's argument on why hogan diserves to be considered the best, I have to back up fully. But Leo knows how I feel on hogan :D

[Leo656]

Indeed I do. You're pregnant with his child. :D Welcome back, big fella.

And yeah Matt, it was Savage DDP was feuding with when he dressed up like La Parka. I wondered how La Parka suddenly grew 3 inches, but then again he was always pretty big for a Luchador. :lol:

[XERO]

"Hogan = Overrated"
So's your opinion. When you get paid 5 million bucks a year to do ANYthing, then you can call people overrated.

Does anyone know how Hogan came onto the scene?! (Cracks knuckles) Ah, gather 'round my son, and I shall tell you a tale, one that began in sunny Florida back in the mid-1970s...

Terry Bollea was a lifelong wrestling fan. He was, through all of high school and for some time after, bass player in several rock and roll bands. His bands played at several clubs in the Tampa area, many of which were frequented by some of the local wrestlers. So he knew people. Eventually, he got it into his head that he might make some money as a wrestler. He was recommended to pro wrestler and trainer Hiro Matsuda, known as one of the toughest trainers around at that point. Hogan's first day was basically as follows: The trainers had him run drills until he was ready to throw up, then Matsuda dragged him into the ring and snapped his ankle.

Back then, not just anybody could come off the street and be a wrestler. There was no garbage like "Tough Enough". You had to be respected by the other wrestlers if you even wanted to have a shot, and to earn their respect you had to be tough. Matsuda wanted to see how dedicated Terry was. Terry came back once his ankle healed, earning him the respect of his trainers, but things didn't get much easier. For the next six months, Hogan was barely allowed one offensive move as the trainers put him in submission hold after submission hold. The way they taught back then was "If a guy leaves his arm open, break it. If you get a guy in a headlock, put the bone of your wrist into his temple and squeeze..." In short, they taught people how to hurt people *for real*. For a year, all Hogan learned was how to break bones and gouge eyes. Then, when they thought he was "ready", they let him in that wrestling was staged. The point of their training him the way they did was two-fold. First off, they wanted him to be able to handle himself in any situation in the ring, and secondly, they wanted him to be so unstoppable physically that nobody could pin him unless he wanted them to.

Once his training was finished, Hogan bounced around several territories and ended up in Memphis as Terry Boulder. Back then, "The Incredible Hulk" tv show with Lou Ferrigno was popular, and someone who saw Hogan commented that he "looked bigger than The Hulk". So he became Terry "The Hulk" Boulder. After a while in Memphis and a few trips to Japan, he eventually ended up in the WWF, then owned by Vince McMahon Sr., who gave him the name Hulk Hogan. He hung around for about a year in 1980 as a heel (bad guy) and had a couple big feuds with Andre the Giant and Bob Backlund. He left the WWF when he got a call to be in Rocky 3. McMahon didn't want Hogan to take the role, but Hogan was insistent, so McMahon fired him. Hogan played Thunderlips in Rocky 3 and became pretty much a celebrity right there.

As with any big movie, Rocky 3 created quite a buzz, and a lot of that Buzz was on Hogan. His name reached the ear of Verne Gagne in Minnesota, owner of the AWA. He brought Hogan in as a face (good guy) and had him feud with Nick Bockwinkle over the AWA Title. The AWA was where "Hulkamania" and all its catchphrases and t-shirts started, they just didn't have a logo yet as Hogan made the shirts himself. Hogan became more and more popular, especially after Rocky 3 came out, but he never ended up with the Title. Politics in wrestling were a big deal back then, and Gagne wanted his son Greg (who was not very talented) to win the Title. Hogan got fed up with it, and when he got an offer from Vince McMahon Jr. to return to the WWF in 1983, he took it. In his final AWA match, he appeared to beat Bockwinkle for the belt, only to have the desicion reversed on a bogus technicality. The fans in the arena rioted.

Hogan took another trip to Japan in 1983 before he went back to the WWF and took part in the first ever International Wrestling Grand Prix Tournament. Hogan was already much-loved in Japan and had recorded an album there. The IWGP Title is basically Japan's version of the World Title, and in fact is more respected throughout the world than the WWF/WWE World Title. Hogan himself has said on many occasions (most notably in 1993, when his words got him in trouble with Vince) that the IWGP Title is the "Real World's Title" and that the WWF Title is "a toy." Hogan beat the legendary Antonio Inoki in the finals, knocking him out of the ring and unconscious with the Axe Bomber to become the first ever IWGP Champion.

After that, he went back to the WWF and beat The Iron Sheik on January 24, 1984 at Madison Square Garden to become the WWF Champion, and the rest is pretty much history.

Anything else you'd like to know? :)

Another mystery solved! Thanks, Leo! :D

[Reznorite420]

I respect Mick Foley, but I really don't think he honestly comes anywhere close to being one of the "greatest wrestlers of all time". He even goes into detail in his books about how he was never particularly talented, he just had a high threshold for pain. His biggest contribution to wrestling was falling off the Cell and almost getting killed, and retiring at 33 with brain damage.

If you call that being one of the greatest wrestlers ever, that's your opinionThat's what MADE him a legend. Being the king of Hardcore, man!

[Leo656]

And hardcore wrestling is basically an oxymoron.

It's funny, I read an interview with Mick Foley that was done just yesterday where he said hardcore wrestling isn't enough to carry on a show by itself, and he's right. Being able to take more chairshots to the head than anyone else doesn't make you a legend, it makes you a sadist, and quite frankly not too bright.

As much as I respect Foley for willing to take the risks he did, I can't celebrate him as a legend for it. That's like saying Custer is a legend and a great general because he got scalped by the indians at Little Big Horn.

Though the thought of Custer's troops chanting "HE'S HARDCORE! HE'S HARDCORE!" as he was getting scalped is pretty funny.

At the same time, I also resent Foley's influence a little bit because thanks to him, some dumb kid in Assclown, Idaho is jumping off his roof and hitting another kid in the head with a flourescent light tube and dropping him into a sandbox full of broken glass, because the kid saw how Foley got to the WWF after jumping off his roof and thinks that he can be a pro wrestler the same way.

Even Foley thinks these kids are idiots, but you have to know that they're following his lead.

[Psycrow]

Bret "the Hitman" Hart. He's the best there ever was, the best there ever is, and the best there ever will be!! :D

[cqb101]

for whoever mentioned Van hammer?..haha..thats exactly what im refering to..

That was just a joke, pal.

:lol: I don't think he knows what a joke is.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

I had to say Hogan, but I don't have to say why, because it's been mentioned several thousands times already by everyone else who voted Hogan. I'm just glad no one said the Rock, cause he has no talent whatsoever. Kurt Angle is on his way to becoming one of the greats as well. Not only can the man wrestle extremely well, but he's amazingly funny on the mic.

What do you have against The Rock? I'm not a huge fan of his, but I don't understand what people have against this guy.

He's charasmatic, he's got a million dollar smile, his movies made more in one weekend than Hogan's have done for 10 years (sorry Leo656), and he's certainly entertaining on the microphone.

He may not know much in the way of actual wrestling (not many wrestlers do anymore), but any lack in his actual wrestling skills is made up for in charisma.

"If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!" - The Rock

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Bret "the Hitman" Hart. He's the best there ever was, the best there ever is, and the best there ever will be!! :D

This guy knows what he's talking about. 8) (It's a smiley face with the Hitman shades!)

Okay, not really.

"The water is under the bridge, and we are together!" - Bret Hart, referring to Owen Hart, on January 1, 1994.

[That Matt Guy]

his movies made more in one weekend than Hogan's have done for 10 years

But Mr. Nanny is a better movie than the Scorpion King.

[Leo656]

And you know what... I'll agree to that, and I hated Mr. Nanny! :lol:

There are a lot of reasons why I don't like the Rock. Partly because his first match EVER was a dark match (a non-televised match) for the WWF, and *then* he was sent down to Memphis for "seasoning". A 22-year old kid was handed a golden opportunity that thousands of people every year aspire (and fail) to get, and why? Because Rocky Johnson (Rock's father) works in some capacity for McMahon. He was guaranteed a WWF career before his first pro match, and that really irks me when so many people never even come close to getting a break like that. Favoritism in wrestling pisses me off to NO end.

Secondly, something bothers me about the way he became popular. He was put on tv week after week as a good guy, and the fans HATED him. They hated his wrestling, they hated his "million dollar smile", they hated his stupid chia pet haircut he had back then... "Die, Rocky, Die" ring any bells? But the WWF persisted because they were determined to make the kid a star, and he kept getting a push. Over time, though, the boos became cheers because the fans just plain got tired of booing him since they knew he would never go away. His wrestling style didn't change one bit. He was still a lousy wrestler, but he started to compensate by being a master of interviews, and the fans started to laugh at his lame jokes and essentially cemented his place as an enormous good guy forever. The Rock is one of the "modern" wrestlers like HHH who can talk on the mic for hours but then put on crappy matches when it's time to actually wrestle, and that's another reason that I don't like him. It's wrestling, not a debate or a stand-up comedy routine or a concert (damn him AND that stupid guitar...)

And finally there's the fact that his finisher just annoys me. Not the Rock Bottom... the Rock Bottom is one of the better finishers around IMO. No, I'm talking about the People's Elbow, a move that 99% of the time never even TOUCHES the opponent, yet all opponents are contractually required to sell like DEATH. I believe it was Mick Foley who once gave an interview on Raw where he said something like he'd "be dead before he sold that abortion of a move." That was hilarious.

Rock annoys me more than anything. That and the fact he's an actor, now, not a wrestler, but he's guaranteed a run with the Title every time he comes back from making a movie because it'll promote ticket sales. Basically, he makes wrestling look cheap, like it's "beneath" him. As far as being one of the all-time greats, I honestly don't think he's even close. Maybe as an interview, but not as a wrestler.

[XERO]

Am I the ONLY guy who likes the Undertaker?!

Sheesh!

[Reznorite420]

No, you're not :D

[Dane E5R]

I think HHH is the best. But my favorite will always be X-Pac.

[GK Punk]

I'm a huge Undertaker fan, but he brawls more than wrestles...

[XERO]

I'm talking about the real Undertaker, the Phenom. Not the American Badass Big Evil Taker.

The one who rolls his eyes inside his head. :roll:

[Leo656]

I used to like X-Pac until I found out he was a heroin addict in his spare time. That kinda turned me off. I did like him as Syxx in WCW though. That name was just so darn clever.

HHH bothers me because he's manipulative. All his success, he got because of someone else. He got popular by hanging out with HBK and Nash, and because *they* were "in" with Vince McMahon, Trips was too by default. It's no surprise that he came up hard and fast once he and HBK got paired up on TV as DX. After two years the crowd finally started reacting, but he mistakenly thought his heat was from himself and not from Michaels. Then when he was with the New-Age Outlaws, he again thought the crowds were reacting to him and not Road Dogg's jokes. Somehow he convinced himself that he was a bona-fide, main event star along the lines of Austin and Rock, and he managed to get himself the belt after Austin and Foley were both out with injuries. He wasn't a particularly bad champion, but he never got a reaction to justify his hype.

Of course, that makes no difference to Trips because HE believes he's the Second Coming. He has his spot and he does everything he can to keep it. When Chris Jericho came in, he was supposed to get a huge push and a feud with the Rock right away. But Trips and X-Pac went to Vince and said Jericho couldn't wrestle, he was sloppy, he was too small (think about that.... X-PAC said someone was too small), and he didn't deserve a push. Big surprise, it was about 3 years before Jericho finally got his feud with the Rock.

And don't even get me started on his thing with Stephanie McMahon. For anyone who doesn't know, as well as being the on-air "General Manager" of WWE Smackdown, Stephanie writes almost all of the storylines for the WWE. She comes up with feuds, decides who should have which belt, etc etc. Well, back when the two were paired up and "married" on TV a few years ago, along the way the two actually started dating in real life (which happens in wrestling all the time... Kevin Sullivan once booked his own real-life divorce into an angle with Chris Benoit) and have been engaged for some time. Trips and Steph are scheduled to be married on October 25th of this year. Now, marrying the boss's daughter is one thing, that's shady enough on its own, but it becomes even more so when you analyze it and realize that since the two started dating, HHH has lost cleanly to exactly TWO people: Hogan and Shawn Michaels, and one of those people just *happens* to be his best friend. The guy NEVER is made to look weak under any circumstances. One angle showed his car dropped from a forklift with him supposedly inside... he didn't even take a WEEK off to sell the "injury". That's more than a little ridiculous.

Pay close attention sometime and see how even when Trips loses, he's the one who ends up looking superior. When HBK beat him last year at SummerSlam, his big comeback match after 4 years away, Trips just HAD to take the spotlight away by bludgeoning his "best friend" with a sledgehammer and sending him out on a stretcher. I'm no Michaels lover, but that was HIS moment and Trips was a selfish bastard to ruin it just b/c he wanted his heat back.

And that's how he's done things ever since he hooked up with Stephanie. He calls his own shots, books entire episodes of Raw around himself, loses when he feels like it (which is VERY rare), and goes so far as to say he refuses to work with certain people. When Goldberg was brought in, HHH reportedly insisted he be kept far away from him on TV because HHH insisted that he would lose the Title to Nash, and ONLY Nash. Meanwhile, they just got done feuding for two months, and wouldn't you know it, he never even bothered dropping the strap to his "good buddy". Now Goldberg is going around saying that if he doesn't beat Trips for the belt at SummerSlam, he's quitting.

Probably the most annoying part is that business is down with HHH on top. Being the "top guy" is supposed to be a reward, it means you're the guy people pay to see. But ever since HHH came back from his quad tear, he's done nothing to justify his "Jesus Push". House show ticket sales are down, PPV buys are down, the belt around his waist means *nothing* because it was handed to him out of a suitcase and not won in the ring, and what's his excuse when he goes on the 'net to mouth off? "Guys like Jericho and RVD aren't good enough to carry the ball. If they want it, they can take it." And meanwhile he ignores the fact that the only way either of them will GET the ball is if he GIVES it to them, and he isn't.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. I overheard someone at the mall yesterday talking about Trips in much harsher words than I do. "Triple H needs to be smacked across the face with a brick and then shot.... no, wait, actually, make that shot TWICE... if you only shot him once, chances are good he'd no-sell it."

That's really, really harsh, but it goes to show you what the general consensus on the guy and his politicking is. That's why business is down. People are sick of him, sick of him acting like God, and they know it's only going to get worse come October when he will, for all intents and purposes, become The Boss.

Marrying the boss's daughter for the sake of a wrestling belt... I'm sorry but that just turns my stomach.

You can like him all you want, but I have no respect for him whatsoever aside from the fact that he worked hard to come back from his injury. But given the current state of things, we'd be better off if he'd stayed away.

[The Stryker]

amen to that leo