Favorite Shredder design?

[Donatello19]

Which version of Shredder has the best design, in your opinion? My personal pick is a tie between OT and Nick Shredder...OT because he's so iconic and is usually the first thing that pops into my head when I think of Shredder..and Nick because I really like the scary and intimidating look, along with the super long and sharp blades. So, which is your favorite?

Mirage comics:

http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume01/10/1004.gif

OT/Fred Wolf series:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/TMNT1987_Shredder.png

Original movies:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c45/mavsfan99/shredder.jpg

Super Shredder (TMNT II):

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130501233815/tmnt/images/e/e9/Super_shredder_TMNT_2_movie_secret_of_the_ooze.png

Next Mutation:

http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/tmntreviewhq/shre8.jpg

2K3/4Kids:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m06oo8lNkR1qk0acd.jpg

IDW comics:

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120330185324/tmnt/images/7/74/IDW2012-Shreddercover.png

2K12/Nickelodeon:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130419165605/tmnt/images/8/8c/Shreddercvbnhj.png

[thebrownranger]

The 1990 movie Shredder.

[Technogeek29]

IDW has jumped to my favorite

[909 Turtle Fan]

2k3 with IDW a close second

[Powder]

IDW for sure, I love it.

[FoxBoxKid]

I voted for 4Kids Shredder. Partly because of nostalgia, but mostly because it has just the right amount of spikiness; i.e., 80s and 90s Shedders are not quite spiky enough, whereas Nick Shredder is a little too spiky. Also, I like the sash better than the cape.

[Shark_Blade]

OT Shredder for me.

IDW and Nick come close second.

[Kurai]

I'd say it's a close call between the IDW Shredder and the 2K3 Shredder. Those are the ones that I feel look the most menacing

[shuriken]

While I really do like the IDW, 1990 Movie Shredder and 2k3 Shredder, the original wins because, well... it's original.
Definitely the most ninja-esque of the Shredder designs, The outfit looks practical and intimidating without being too over the top (2k3, Super Shredder and Nick Shredder looking at You) and while having one of the best colors for the outfit, tying it in with the Foot Clan (That awesome dark maroon). If it wasn't for the slightly large/awkward helmet in 1990 I would have chosen that one.
While the OT is iconic, it's a variation of the Comic, and nobody likes Next Mutation Shredder. Not even Next Mutation Shredder likes himself...

[Wildcat]

I voted for 4Kids Shredder. Partly because of nostalgia, but mostly because it has just the right amount of spikiness; i.e., 80s and 90s Shedders are not quite spiky enough, whereas Nick Shredder is a little too spiky. Also, I like the sash better than the cape.This, just not the nostalgia part. 2k3 Shredder is the perfect balance and looks really evil.

The Nick Shredder's blades and gaurds, I guess you can call them (the actual metal hes wearing) are just too bulky. I know its to keep in style with the turtles bulky forearms and shins but its too big. Plus extra blades pop out? Its just too much. The scar on his face is little cliche too.

[Candy Kappa]

Mirage, followed close by IDW. A nice third is Nick Shredder.

Mirage Shredder follows "less is more", it's not over-the-top ridiculous with the spikes or a full cover armor, it's basically a modified Foot uniform.

IDW is very much similar in the vein of Mirage, it's simplistic and practical looking, and the scarf is pretty cool.

[Memphis]

IDW looks awesome. I'm picking him.

[RaphAndDonnie]

As far as designs go I gotta pick 2k3.

[HeroTurtlesFan]

Nostalgia-wise, probably the original movie... but I voted for IDW. It just seems to get everything right.

[ObiWanFan4life]

IDW Shredder Easily. Why even make the next mutation shredder an option?

[ABrown]

My favorite is the 4Kids design. I prefer the original design featured through the first part of the second season to the ones featured in Rogue In The House and the Back To The Sewer season/Turtles Forever.

[Gwydion]

Voted for OT Shredder as I've always had a soft spot for his design, but IDW was a really close second. Nick and 4kids seem too over the top, and Mirage and 1st movie just seem to be lacking slightly (in my opinion). I'm a simple but striking kind of gal, I guess.

[CyberCubed]

Mirage/Movie, OT and 4kids.

[JTH]

The movies, simply because it was cool seeing a real visual Shredder.

Also, Shredder was in The Next Mutation? Huh...shows how much I cared...

[turtlefanforever]

2k3 4kids hands down, and you cant really count TNM because of how brief but it does deserve to be up there. this seems vaguely similar to my favorite version thread.

[Nameless]

from pure looks its a tie between super and IDW with 2k3 a close 3rd. super shredder won out from being iconic from my childhood.

[The Turtle Terminator]

Super Shred cause hes best lookin and I really want his action figure

[NYShell]

Definitely the 1990 movie, with the Mirage coming in close.
My absolute least favorite is the nicktoon version.

[Shiro Kame]

4kids/2k3; He was more intimidating in my opinion, and he never hesitated to give out a painful punishment.

[pannoni1]

In general, the comics provide the best Shredder designs, with the movies (except for the first one which honestly is just middle of the pack IMO) the worst. The Nick But I voted for the Mirage Shredder; you just can't deny that its the purest Shredder of them all, and despite being only present a few issues, you can't deny the classic "Come face your doom!" pose. OT Shredder is a good adaption of the design and is perhaps along with the 1990 movie the most recognizable design, but it just can't top Mirage. IDW seems to have a bit of a 4kids design, but a bit more polished and I like that design, second only to Mirage. Unfortunately with the numerous forms of the Shredder in 4kids, its tough for even the popular Ch'rell to get my vote given that its too alien and not human enough.

[Tora]

Bay Shredder has them all beat!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7LUydJYdSJM/Uukw-TJprVI/AAAAAAAADfE/0LbLRFvxsfM/s1600/Shredder-TMNT.jpg

[Icebot]

2003 Shredder. I like how robotic he looks!

[Redeemer]

can't decide between 2k3 shredder or Idw Shredder. Really like them both

[billbot85]

1990 movie Shredder all the way. He was just badass and menacing.

[Bry]

The great thing about the Shredder is that, like the Turtles, his overall look generally hasn't deviated from the original too much. And when it has, usually there's been a good reason (The 2003 Utrom Shredder being more armoured/robotic and the Super Shredder because, well, mutagen). What works works, and each variation is able to bring their own flair to the design without getting too far away from the Mirage classic.

(Except the Next Mutation look, of course. That was... pretty lousy.)

My favourite is probably the IDW design. It keeps things pretty basic, but he looks legitimately scary/deadly, and the red scarf is a nice touch.

[kolaida]

My fave is OT. He just always looked so funny running around with his cape and mask. I just loved him, he was definitely one of my favorite villains! Still is!

[TrickOrTreater]

With how I personally envision Shredder, it's gotta be IDW.

But Mirage, OT, 1990, and 2003 are all great and awesome, and not only because of nostalgia.

I like Nick, except for the ridiculously bulky forearm and shin armor.

Never saw Next Mutation.

Was never a fan of Super Shredder, even as a kid. Don't hate it, just eh.

And **** Bay Shredder.

[Tartaruhga Muhtante]

One question, who was the actor who wore clothes Next Mutation Shredder?

[Candy Kappa]

One question, who was the actor who wore clothes Next Mutation Shredder?

Patrick P. Pon.

[Sumac]

OT Shredder. With IDW close second.
Never was big fan of 2k3 Shredder - there is just too much armor. Of all his versions I liked his second suit (Rogue in the House) and Demon Shredder the best.

Movie Shredder looks strange with his glittery red suit. I wonder how OT-like design would've looked in the live action movie.

P.S.
I love how instead of TNM design there is just "Image Hosted" picture. Not even Internetz want TNM Shredder. :D

[Chabrendeki]

I voted for the Mirage Shredder - he has the same cool design like the OT Shredder, but is not so goofy.

[Jephael]

I gotta admit, I was always partial to the colors on his outfit in the original cartoon.

[hypnock]

IDW overall.

I also like the way 2k3 looks, but I don't like the fact that he is an alien in robot suit.

[HotNunchuckFury]

IDW Shredder for me. He looks menacing whilst avoiding the clunky robotic look.

[cloud]

Patrick P. Pon.

Yup. I actually know Patrick. I didn't find out that he played the Shredder until last year I was IMDBing Next Mutations cast.
Sadly he injured himself during a stunt and lost an eye. He is now doing security work for filming and has taking a long break from acting.

[FrMikey]

IDW : hostile, sober and stately : the best !

[neatoman]

Oh tough choice, let's see now, I like the Mirage design, the 4kids design, the IDW design and the Nickelodeon design.

I don't like the FW design, the movie designs or the Next Mutation design. The FW design looks a bit uninspired, the movie design looks like a bobble-head, Super-Shredder seems cool at first but I don't know and the Next Mutation suit just seemed so cheap.

Back to the ones I like:

The Mirage design was simple but the glowing eyes really sell it.

The 4kids design, well there are four but let's begin with Utrom Shredder and assume that's what people mean, the full metal armor and red eyes imples power and fierceness while the sash gives him a sense of style. Karai Shreddder is the same just with a feminine shape, the Demon Shredder just badass with that tattered cape but is otherwise too similar to the Utrom Shredder except for the colors, Cyber Shredder was prett garrish to look at but servicable.

The IDW suit is not very heavy on the metal, a lot more cloth but I really admire that since it does enforce the important idea that he's a NINJA and NOT A SAMURAI. The black and red is a classic villain color scheme at this point and I will admit that it works a lot better than purple or blue, you might call it a cliché but I still enjoy those colors.

The Nickelodeon design I will admit, is the weakest one of the ones I like, it goes back to being primarily purple, the gauntlets/ankle pads (?) seem too big and clunky for my tastes and I don't like the design on the helmet for some reason. However, like with the IDW design, I do enjoy that he mostly wears cloth instead of armor (even if it's a bit undermined by the gauntlets) and the burn marks are neat.

So really it comes down to the 4Kids and IDW designs. Hmmm, well I really do enjoy that IDW Shredder actually reminds me of a Ninja instead of a samurai and as much I love red eyes, fierce armor and gorgeous sashes, it's still more important for an artist to convey their ideas properly...

IDW shredder it is, simply for looking more like a ninja than he does a samurai.

[Davin]

IDW. Mostly due to the practicality of a fabric mask over a faceplate. I prefer a more minimalist Shredder design.

Nick Shredder with the ridiculously large forearm and calf gauntlets is easily my least favorite.

[DarkFell]

Voted for Fred Wolf Shredder. I also loved the design for the original TMNT movie Shredder.

[So-CoAddict]

OT, Mirage and original movie are the best. Michael Bay's is cool looking, but far too futuristic looking and technical. He's supposed to be a martial arts expert, not a Transformer.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

My favorite design is IDW, followed closely by the Movie and OT versions. 2K3 was awesome, but a little too heavy in the armor.

[nellyp]

The movies, simply because it was cool seeing a real visual Shredder.

Also, Shredder was in The Next Mutation? Huh...shows how much I cared...

You had to watch the very first episode of Next Mutation to see Shredder as they wrote him out of the show right out of the gates and was never seen again.

[Tora]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs42/f/2009/088/6/4/Oroku_Saki_by_ElhasMercy.jpg

This. Bar None

[Levia24]

Oh, I really like 1987 series design of Shredder. He looks awesome, both with or without his mask. I love his purple cape and his whole wardrobe.

2003 Shredder looked dark and powerful. Couldn't connect his civil appearance to when he's in armor, though. But I love his longish hair and civil appearance.

[Jester]

It's tough. The original is classic, but I also dig the FW and IDW designs. Movie Shredder is pretty good...probably the best we can expect from a live action movie.

[Nameless]

lol Next Mutation shredder gets no love... which is not surprising as it it the only thing in Next Mutation that everyone hates, both people who like and dislike the show. Shredder needs to be badass and that just isn't the case with Next Mutation Shredder.

[pennydreadful]

I feel like I should say NM Shredder is my fave now, just so the poor guy gets some love... but I just can't. :lol: Even my love for NM can only take me so far!

[Powder]

I feel like I should say NM Shredder is my fave now, just so the poor guy gets some love... but I just can't. :lol: Even my love for NM can only take me so far!

His toy was pretty redeemable, design wise!

[Jester]

His toy was pretty redeemable, design wise!
Still have mine...well....Trey has him now. Pretty sturdy figure.

[Fang Wolf]

I think I like the 2K12/Nickelodeon ver of Shredder..

[Mandy Chan]

I voted for the 2K3 Shredder. He does look creepy and menacing, but I like the 1990 movie design of him as well.

[Shark_Blade]

There should be 2k14 option as well.

[Slade]

I rolled with IDW on this one.

[Oisterboy]

Voted Super Shredder, but if I'm completely honest I really liked the 2014 Shredder.

Let your hate flow over me. It's ok.

Edit: Hey, my 100th post!

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

OT or IDW for me too. My vote went to IDW but it's right there lol
OT is classic, I can't hate him. But the IDW Shredder is handled so well!

I dont think 2014 Shredder did too much... and in a fight he was no martial artist. Resorting to slashing and stomping and throwing

[pharaohyami5000]

2k3 Shredder as the baddest baddass main villain in turtles history. Okay, he isn't what he seems, but that alone was what 2k3 allowed to deliver us their huge Shredder VS Leonardo scene. You all know what I'm talking about. Plus, he comes back 3 times (well, technically 4) because he shows that no other villain can be as bad as Shredder. You just can't get rid of him, and every moment he comes back, I'll be "Oh, S***!!"

Classic Shredder is fun to watch. Heck, I imitate James Avery's voice whenever I feel like it.

TMNT 1 Shredder had a really ominous Shredder introduction where we see him in a birds eye view, then slowly reaching down to see th rest of him.

TMNT... 5 (well, the 4th live-action anyway), Shredder has too many knives and blades being carried. I cannot see any part of his face, including his eyes, and looks too robotic. Is this Shredder or Megatron?

No comment on Nick Shredder as I'm still trying to work on time to watch the series.

[judasghost]

i would say IDW but when i'm reading the ongoing, i'm hearing James Avery in my head. so then i go back to the purple clad Fred Wolf incarnation and visualize him, but being actually bad-ass.

i would say Nick is my least favorite, with the 90s movies somewhere in the middle.

i have barely any experience with the 4Kids show other than a handful of episodes and Turtles Forever so I won't comment on that Shredder.

[Netkeeper]

IDW, 2k3, and original films, in that order.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Well I personally like OT Shredder, then the Original Movie Shredder, followed by 4Kids/2K3 Shredder, then Nick Shredder and honorable mention to 2014 Movie Shredder

[Icegaze]

1. IDW comics

2. Mirage comics
3. Original movies
4. 4Kids series
5. Nick toons


6. The rest...

[mrminister4446]

And I vote...
2k3 Shredder!

He just looks so badass!
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6303/30398516.jpg

And let's not forget the demon Shredder:
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/7/7e/2509424-turtle650.png/revision/latest?cb=20130712164506

[Cipher]

Mirage followed closely by IDW. I dig the more minimal designs. Mirage takes it with the maroon coloring, though.

[Levia24]

My favorite Shredder design is from original 1987 cartoon series. The colors of his cloth (black, purple and gray) fits him awesomely. I love his armor, too. His face is great as well. I like this adaptation so much because I prefer when his hamlet and mask are of lighter color that dark/black.

My least favorite Shredder design is from 2012 animated series, where he's too dark (his wardrobe is combination of dark gray and black, which is monotone, imo). Also I dislike his face and his eyes. He looks like a dried husk. His hamlet is somehow too bland for my liking.

[SuperXShredder]

Super Shredder from the TMNT movie :) followed by mirage comics Shredder and the cartoon Shredder from the original series :)

[Nasubionna]

It was a tough call between the original Mirage and the first movie… the original because it's definitely the most practical, and well, original. And the first movie because it is just so awesome to see it brought fairly closely to life. :tgrin:

[dawwe]

Going to have to go with the IDW design for this one.

[Usagi Miyamoto]

1. IDW
2. Image Raph
3. 2k3

[Donnieangelo]

2k3 and the old movies.

[Rooish]

I would like to vote for the PD movie Shredder, please.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Without a doubt, the 1990 version of Shredder is probably my favorite design.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd vote IDW Shredder in terms of design... if not for the lack of a faceplate. Shredder's gotta have that.

And people actually like the Nick cartoon Shredder's design? And they like it best? Help me out here... how is that?

[neatoman]

I'd vote IDW Shredder in terms of design... if not for the lack of a faceplate. Shredder's gotta have that.

And people actually like the Nick cartoon Shredder's design? And they like it best? Help me out here... how is that?

I guess they think the retractable claws are cool? Gives him a Wolverine feel, I guess. Personally I think the sash looks kinda alright and the color scheme of redish purple and metallic armor seems fine. Of course, other Shredder designs did these elements better.

Beyond that I have to say I agree with you, it's not a good design, like at all. The guantlets/shin guards are too bulky, the scaled torso armor looks out of place, a lot of the detail is oddly square-ish and everything about the helmet seems too long. It's probably the ugliest Shredder design since SotO.

Speaking out which, the mutation just made him laughable.

[newfan]

Well I pick a time to post, right after the 2012 bashing :) Sorry guys, I like him. I do agree about the shin guards though, they make his feet look tiny :) so that or his feet need to be bigger like they are on the toy figure.

I can see why the IDW has popularity, that pic in the first post looks quite badass.

[neatoman]

Oh and I forgot another detail about the Nick Shredder design I don't like, the foot and arm wrappings, what's up with that crap? How do they have those knuckle studs if it's wrappings, it'd be a bitch to align that everytime you put it on. What was wrong with just giving him gloves and why do they cover his entire arms except for the shoulders? I haven't even touched the foot wrappings yet, there's a billion types of foot wear and they gave him wrappings like some hobo?

[Powder]

I really like most elements of the Nick design, I just think it could be executed better. Not a fan of how big & blocky alot of it is, but the general aesthetics are dope.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess they think the retractable claws are cool? Gives him a Wolverine feel, I guess. Personally I think the sash looks kinda alright and the color scheme of redish purple and metallic armor seems fine. Of course, other Shredder designs did these elements better.

Beyond that I have to say I agree with you, it's not a good design, like at all. The guantlets/shin guards are too bulky, the scaled torso armor looks out of place, a lot of the detail is oddly square-ish and everything about the helmet seems too long. It's probably the ugliest Shredder design since SotO.

Oh and I forgot another detail about the Nick Shredder design I don't like, the foot and arm wrappings, what's up with that crap? How do they have those knuckle studs if it's wrappings, it'd be a bitch to align that everytime you put it on. What was wrong with just giving him gloves and why do they cover his entire arms except for the shoulders? I haven't even touched the foot wrappings yet, there's a billion types of foot wear and they gave him wrappings like some hobo?

I don't dislike the Nick show at all and there are some good designs in it, but Shredder... c'mon. There is no way in hell anyone could move in that thing, let alone fight in it or jump around. And when talk of the Nick cartoon began, that was like exactly what I'd imagine they'd do... big, bulky mechanized suit.

[ToTheNines]

I don't like the blocky shin and forearm gauntlets, but I got used to them after being really put off initially. Everything else about it is mint.

[CyberCubed]

There's something about Fred Wolf's Shredder that looks so damn cool:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b3/f5/a1/b3f5a1bccd5cef60fe7aebf26de8d939--ninja-turtles-movie-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.jpg

It's like the perfect look for a supervillain from the 80's or 90's. Especially if he was portrayed competently and not a comic relief villain. In the videogames especially we see how this Shredder design can look so cool.

[Ninjinister]

Turtles in Time Re-Shelled had a pretty boss take on the 87 Shredder.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/shredder-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-turtles-in-time-re-shelled-97.7.jpg

[DestronMirage22]

My favorite design is the original Mirage version. Such a classic design that still looks epic and menacing to this day.

I really dislike the Nick version. The proportions and aesthetics are all weird and wonky and the Extend-O-Claws™ are just ridiculous. He's never shown pressing any button or pulling anything on his gauntlets to make 'em come out, so how the heck does he do it? With his mind? :roll:

[FredWolfLeonardo]

There's something about Fred Wolf's Shredder that looks so damn cool:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b3/f5/a1/b3f5a1bccd5cef60fe7aebf26de8d939--ninja-turtles-movie-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.jpg

It's like the perfect look for a supervillain from the 80's or 90's. Especially if he was portrayed competently and not a comic relief villain. In the videogames especially we see how this Shredder design can look so cool.

I agree 100%. It certainly helped in the original cartoon when Shredder would beat all 4 turtles or do something impressive, he looked pretty badass while doing it.

It also made his foil ups more striking, since someone so menancing looking is losing as opposed to someone who looks like they will foil up anyway.

[Andrew NDB]

There's something about Fred Wolf's Shredder that looks so damn cool:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b3/f5/a1/b3f5a1bccd5cef60fe7aebf26de8d939--ninja-turtles-movie-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.jpg

Except you know who never looked like that, ever, in Fred Wolf? Shredder. And it's not like he ever actually hurt anybody... that image is deceiving.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It was a hard one for me to choose between FW and 4Kids.

Nick Shredder I think looks alright. Not great but not bad.

Original Movie Shredder I think looks amazing with his cape but looks less impressive without it since the helmet is very big in proportion to his body and Im not the biggest fan of his reddish pink shirt.

Between 2k3 and FW, 2k3 looks more menancing but I like how the FW design has a purple cape and has actual eyes as opposed to red lights.

It was a close one, but I give it to FW since I think his design is awesome even though his portrayal in the show was not intimidating while alot of what makes 4Kids Shredders look cool is his role in the show.

Except you know who never looked like that, ever, in Fred Wolf? Shredder. And it's not like he ever actually hurt anybody... that image is deceiving.

He still looks cool though, even if that image is FAKE.

[newfan]

My favorite design is the original Mirage version. Such a classic design that still looks epic and menacing to this day.

I really dislike the Nick version. The proportions and aesthetics are all weird and wonky and the Extend-O-Claws™ are just ridiculous. He's never shown pressing any button or pulling anything on his gauntlets to make 'em come out, so how the heck does he do it? With his mind? :roll:

I imagined the blades may have a more discreet activation like a hidden senor under his gloves/bandages that just maybe activated with the right fist clench (or something like that) It wouldn't look as effective if he had to stop and press something.
Also, it's probably useful that they can retract when he is not in combat as they aren't in the way (he'd just be screwed if the device stopped working when he needed it :) )

[neatoman]

Turtles in Time Re-Shelled had a pretty boss take on the 87 Shredder.

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/shredder-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-turtles-in-time-re-shelled-97.7.jpg

The aura and glowing eyes coupled with the Scottie Ray voice sort of confuses me, is he just meant to be a revisionist version of the FW Shredder or one of the 4Kids Shredders wearing FW clothing?

[Vegeta]

I think IDW shredders design and overall character is the best he has been done. Ruthless.

[pferreira]

I voted the FW Shredder design as well. The use of colours in the design works for me.

[newfan]

Bumping an old thread triggered by something I saw today.

I was new here when this thread last popped up and there have been more versions since then, I'll add mention of the design in Batman and TMNT, I liked that.

Also maybe newer members can weight in they want I guess.

[sdp]

I really like Batman V TMNT's Shredder design too, I only hate the helmet that has the little "stickers" or whatever they're supposed to be of 1987 Shredder's helmet.

I like him because one of my favorite Shredder's is Cyber Shredder from Tournament Fighters. He has to look strong even without armor. My favorite foot logo is the dragon one from 2k3 so yeah that's why i'm partial to BatmanVtmnt Shredder.

2K3 shredder has too much armor and I hate 2012 Shredder's giant spikes.

Except you know who never looked like that, ever, in Fred Wolf? Shredder. And it's not like he ever actually hurt anybody... that image is deceiving.

Shredder was actually a fairly competent in the 1987 show, he rarely lost a 1 on 1 fight. He'd "trip" with a barrel and then run away in the sillier seasons but if he got into a fight he could take on all 4 turtles and win.

[mrmaczaps]

Always Mirage. ALWAYS.

Then 1990.