Blue Door

[Lil G]

Can someone PM the proposed TMNT movie script? I've took quite a time to search for it around the internet with no luck, so it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[NYShell]

Idk where the actual script is, but that latinoreview site had it and they read it. Here's a 12 min summarized version they read.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFT8wi5ADgg

[TrickOrTreater]

Idk where the actual script is, but that latinoreview site had it and they read it. Here's a 12 min summarized version they read.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFT8wi5ADgg

This gives me brain tumors just listening to it.

The fact that it was written at all and the current movie STILL has some aspects of it just...

Balls. Just balls.

[pdizzle]

I have tried and tried to find this as well. Through websites, torrents, and forums but all I end up with are reviews of it and what not.....there is a nice little summery however of it on you tube that I liked a whole lot...

[Venom]

Are you guys referring to the leaked script from last year?

I have it saved on my hard drive.

[Powder]

I read it in its entirety when it first leaked but I'd like to have it for archival purposes myself. Shoot it over when you can, Ven!

[TigerClaw]

Yeah, Its best to keep a copy of this for when the movie comes out, then some will make some comparisons on what was kept from the script.

[samxsteal]

Am i the only onewho think there are actually some very good aspects to the script???? not all of it just bits and pieces. The endings complete bull, but there are some very cool aspects.

[Anton Chigurh]

Yea venom if you could hook me up with it too, thanks bud just pm me

[jacobzking]

Am i the only onewho think there are actually some very good aspects to the script???? not all of it just bits and pieces. The endings complete bull, but there are some very cool aspects.

i read the whole thing about a year ago and enjoyed just about all of it. wasnt feeling the schrader deal or the whole orbs angle like you said. but bebop, rocksteady... krang, count me in! people that bashed that script will be begging to have it back when the rewritten movie hits, lol.

[TigerClaw]

I think some of the differences is that Bebop and Rocksteady aren't in the movie.

[NinjaMan]

So their origin is almost like Superman, last of their kind, dead parents.

[samxsteal]

i read the whole thing about a year ago and enjoyed just about all of it. wasnt feeling the schrader deal or the whole orbs angle like you said. but bebop, rocksteady... krang, count me in! people that bashed that script will be begging to have it back when the rewritten movie hits, lol.

Meh i think they could have done alot of great thing with the scrip the guy they got to to the rewrite is amazing and probably going to become a great screen writer. And they still have alot of cool elements. Love them adding Karai, love the fact that april isn't 18 and actually works for channel 6.

[turtlefanforever]

would like the leaked script in its entirety if you can

[TrickOrTreater]

Am i the only onewho think there are actually some very good aspects to the script????

Of course you do.

i read the whole thing about a year ago and enjoyed just about all of it. wasnt feeling the schrader deal or the whole orbs angle like you said. but bebop, rocksteady... krang, count me in! people that bashed that script will be begging to have it back when the rewritten movie hits, lol.

I truly have no idea how anyone could look at that thing and call it good or "enjoyable."

Never mind that it completely and utterly ***** on everything the TMNT is, but it's just bad writing. Just plain...terrible.

[samxsteal]

Of course you do.



I truly have no idea how anyone could look at that thing and call it good or "enjoyable."

Never mind that it completely and utterly ***** on everything the TMNT is, but it's just bad writing. Just plain...terrible.

there are plenty of positive aspects of the leaked scripts. as a whole does it work? NO, but that's not the point there are aspects do work, they could have easily ficked this script and made it into something that works.

[TrickOrTreater]

there are plenty of positive aspects of the leaked scripts. as a whole does it work? NO, but that's not the point there are aspects do work, they could have easily ficked this script and made it into something that works.

"Never mind that it completely and utterly ***** on everything the TMNT is..."

[samxsteal]

"Never mind that it completely and utterly ***** on everything the TMNT is..."

Have you read the script??? dude there plenty of cool neat aspects to it Bebop and rocksteady yeah thats totally ******** on everything tmnt is??? lol :trolleye: technodromo, yeah that to. Great fight scenes and action, yeah that's bad too, lol

[NYShell]

Are you guys referring to the leaked script from last year?

I have it saved on my hard drive.

I'd love to get a copy from you too if that's cool.

[TrickOrTreater]

Have you read the script??? dude there plenty of cool neat aspects to it Bebop and rocksteady yeah thats totally ******** on everything tmnt is??? lol :trolleye: technodromo, yeah that to. Great fight scenes and action, yeah that's bad too, lol

Gollie gee willickers a couple characters from the cartoon and neato fight scenes and action!

Literally couldn't have those things in ANY OTHER MOVIE that's leagues better than the one described in the script! So that makes THIS piece of **** script decent, somehow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFT8wi5ADgg

Listen to the exasperated sigh at 11:43-11:44. That sums up the proposed movie perfectly.

And like I said, it ***** on everything that is the TMNT.

Not to mention the horrendous dialogue.

[samxsteal]

Gollie gee willickers a couple characters from the cartoon and neato fight scenes and action!

Literally couldn't have those things in ANY OTHER MOVIE that's leagues better than the one described in the script! So that makes THIS piece of **** script decent, somehow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFT8wi5ADgg

Listen to the exasperated sigh at 11:43-11:44. That sums up the proposed movie perfectly.

And like I said, it ***** on everything that is the TMNT.

Not to mention the horrendous dialogue.

Dude the whole thing all together is bad, but there are redeeming aspects to it. Your being ridiculous lol. And he was sighing because of the final act. The beginning besides wonky Casey and April (which could have been rewriten had they kept the script) is about the only big issue.

Dimension x would be great if they rewrote it and took out the turtle race thing, Krang's not bad just needs more Dialog and the whole proficiency could have been edited out and change. Add in more relation to splinter and Shredder beef up dialog and the script could have been crafted into something great given time.

[TrickOrTreater]

Dude the whole thing all together is bad, but there are redeeming aspects to it. Your being ridiculous lol. And he was sighing because of the final act. The beginning besides wonky Casey and April (which could have been rewriten had they kept the script) is about the only big issue.

Dimension x would be great if they rewrote it and took out the turtle race thing, Krang's not bad just needs more Dialog and the whole proficiency could have been edited out and change. Add in more relation to splinter and Shredder beef up dialog and the script could have been crafted into something great given time.

...

So change it completely.

Why didn't I think of that?

And I love this:

The beginning besides wonky Casey and April is about the only big issue.

No, it was ONE big issue in a SEA of big issues.

[Technogeek29]

Sorta wish we could've made secret History of the Foot Clan with Issue 5 and Splinter Micro thrown togethor for a movie.

[samxsteal]

Sorta wish we could've made secret History of the Foot Clan with Issue 5 and Splinter Micro thrown togethor for a movie.

that would be pretty good

[Technogeek29]

that would be pretty good

Down fall is I couldn't really work April into the movie by just focusing on those aspects of IDW. This would really explain why Yoshi and Saki have a feud in the first place. Heck it would pretty much be their movie. I guess by changing the scene of when the Professor is giving a lecture on the Foot would be the only possible way to work in April.

Like have her and Casey as class mates but not really all that close almost strangers. And keep the dilenma of Casey havimg problems with his father and meeting Raph (who I'm not sure if I want to have seperated) slowly introduce the Foot Into the movie going with the starting fact that they don't exist as far as Don is concerned. His and Leo's realtionship in the comic isn't something I want to be lost. And flashbacks of the past should go to Leo Mikey and Splinter only with Mikey not able to make sense of it since he was a infant.

This is as far as I got so far and I really want to keep the underlining message of Family present.

[pdizzle]

Are you guys referring to the leaked script from last year?

I have it saved on my hard drive.

I know your probobly tired of hearing thjs but could you please pm it to me as well?

[samxsteal]

I know your probobly tired of hearing thjs but could you please pm it to me as well?

Sent you the link it is a 100 something pages

[Jester]

Xav posted a link all the way back in page 2. Sorry we covered it up.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?fbshx0svrpe7efe

[Galactus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ZAcyvHW_k

I've actually seen a separate part of that interview but this portion is new to me and I find what William Fichtner says slightly alarming for anyone holding out hope that Eric Sachs can still be a Shredder as he's always been portrayed.

It seems that people have informed him that there's many different Shredders and Saki is simply only one of many. It also seems Sachs is deeply fascinated by the armor and that it's when he dons said armor he becomes the Shredder and no matter who it is underneath the armor they become The Shredder when the wear it.

Of course the above is open to a certain amount of interpretation. Is he speaking figuratively or literally as in the armor is possessed and the wearer becomes the Shredder and gains his ninja skills?

I'm not criticizing Fichtner for this. He obviously doesn't know and is going off what he's been told that this is accurate to what has come before and obviously there could still be some twist but his casual brushing off of Oroku Saki being one link in a chain of Shredders doesn't really bode well not just for the character but the titular characters in which he plays a prominent role in the origin and their motivation to be ninjas. Obviously a separate interview he says in this version it's not by chance he encounters the turtles (it never is but obviously he isn't aware of that) but it doesn't seem likely Sachs will have a feud with Yoshi...unless Yoshi himself is significantly different.

[chrisdude]

So, I sent the Blue Door script to the thread starter, back before anybody replied.
But I didn't say anything.
I hope it didn't cause any prob-

http://img.pandawhale.com/104582-Community-Troy-fire-screaming-LUDE.gif

[Jester]

So, I sent the Blue Door script to the thread starter, back before anybody replied.
But I didn't say anything.
I hope it didn't cause any prob-

http://img.pandawhale.com/104582-Community-Troy-fire-screaming-LUDE.gif
Priceless, man. Priceless.

EDIT: Bed time.

[samxsteal]

So, I sent the Blue Door script to the thread starter, back before anybody replied.
But I didn't say anything.
I hope it didn't cause any prob-

http://img.pandawhale.com/104582-Community-Troy-fire-screaming-LUDE.gif

Thats pretty funny lol

[TurtleMikey]

The Blue Door, at its root, has no redeeming qualities.

And that's not to say it's a (objectively speaking, and source aside) a bad script.

It's a pretty good script.

But it completely missed the point by altering the source material to the point where the only REAL recognizable characters (their origin not withstanding) was the Turtles themselves.

The Turtles themselves, minus their origin, and what they are shown to do was the only thing that was perfect, or even mildly good, in this script. The personalities of the Turtles is spot on. Their relationships with each other are almost flawlessly portrayed, and the actions sequences in this film (including the escape sequence an ESPECIALLY the 3rd act Rooftop sprint scene) was top notch.

But not even all that could support was a raging pile of horseshit the rest of the script was.

There was alot of good intentions put into this script, as evidenced by so many things fans have wanted to see for years (particularly Bebop, Rocksteady, the Technodrome and Kraang). But, the way it was all executed was so poorly that it wasn't even worth including in the end.

[chrisdude]

Honestly, I enjoyed the Blue Door script. The dialogue was awful, and pretty much nothing was held sacred, in terms of mythology. But, all in all, I thought it was fun and exciting. And, as TurtlesMikey points out, the action was awesome. I was thrilled to find, through filming location and the toys, that the downhill chase was preserved. This is the kind of TMNT action we've only seen in cartoons.

And there were some concepts I was open to. Casey and April's age and positions in life, Casey's story in general. The bulletproof shells idea sounds silly, but they did really cool things with it.

The script excepts and video that went viral really do focus on the absolute worst aspects of the script. You'd almost have to warm up to it, even a tiny bit, if you read the whole thing.

[TurtleMikey]

Honestly, I enjoyed the Blue Door script. The dialogue was awful, and pretty much nothing was held sacred, in terms of mythology. But, all in all, I thought it was fun and exciting. And, as TurtlesMikey points out, the action was awesome. I was thrilled to find, through filming location and the toys, that the downhill chase was preserved. This is the kind of TMNT action we've only seen in cartoons.

And there were some concepts I was open to. Casey and April's age and positions in life, Casey's story in general. The bulletproof shells idea sounds silly, but they did really cool things with it.

The script excepts and video that went viral really do focus on the absolute worst aspects of the script. You'd almost have to warm up to it, even a tiny bit, if you read the whole thing.


Agreed.

Overall, it's pretty terrible. Terrible like the Michael Bay Transformers films (particularly, Revenge of the Fallen).

But if you go in mainly or just for the Turtles and some kick ass action, it's enjoyable.

[Bry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ZAcyvHW_k

I've actually seen a separate part of that interview but this portion is new to me and I find what William Fichtner says slightly alarming for anyone holding out hope that Eric Sachs can still be a Shredder as he's always been portrayed.

It seems that people have informed him that there's many different Shredders and Saki is simply only one of many. It also seems Sachs is deeply fascinated by the armor and that it's when he dons said armor he becomes the Shredder and no matter who it is underneath the armor they become The Shredder when the wear it.

http://media.giphy.com/media/CHVvWfV0WnJ6M/giphy.gif

[TrickOrTreater]

http://media.giphy.com/media/CHVvWfV0WnJ6M/giphy.gif

It's gonna be epic levels of ****ery.

[pdizzle]

Honestly, I enjoyed the Blue Door script. The dialogue was awful, and pretty much nothing was held sacred, in terms of mythology. But, all in all, I thought it was fun and exciting. And, as TurtlesMikey points out, the action was awesome. I was thrilled to find, through filming location and the toys, that the downhill chase was preserved. This is the kind of TMNT action we've only seen in cartoons.

And there were some concepts I was open to. Casey and April's age and positions in life, Casey's story in general. The bulletproof shells idea sounds silly, but they did really cool things with it.

The script excepts and video that went viral really do focus on the absolute worst aspects of the script. You'd almost have to warm up to it, even a tiny bit, if you read the whole thing.
I very much agree. I couldnt have said this better myself

[NinjaPug]

Decided to finally read this today.

It was so bad that I almost want to post in the "I'm stoked" thread simply because I'm just happy the movie we're getting can't be that bad.......right?

Other than the character's names there is nothing in that script that makes me think TMNT. Other than some of the action scenes there better not be anything from that script in the final movie.

I can't believe someone got paid to write that.

[Galactus]

To be honest while sounding grand the action scenes in the leaked script didn't impress me too much.

Like the likes of Batman and Spider-man the turtles have been part of pretty much every story setting imaginable from fighting gangs, ninjas, soldiers, government agents, robots, every kind of monster, they've time traveled, gone to space, traveled across the world and to different dimensions but like the aforementioned characters we tend to associate them with a particular setting; in this case being in NY fighting the Foot. At very least that's their standard, their beginning.

Those action scenes didn't really seem "TMNT" to me. I'd like to think a reboot should take the franchise back to basics particularly as this is supposed to be an origin story.

The only thing I wouldn't mind is the idea of the turtles shells being bullet proof, it may be giving the writer too much credit to suggest he read the implications of that on the back of the original action figure boxes...probably not.

[TrickOrTreater]

Decided to finally read this today.

It was so bad that I almost want to post in the "I'm stoked" thread simply because I'm just happy the movie we're getting can't be that bad.......right?

Other than the character's names there is nothing in that script that makes me think TMNT. Other than some of the action scenes there better not be anything from that script in the final movie.

I can't believe someone got paid to write that.

Oh, but there is.

[Commenter 42]

Have you read the script??? dude there plenty of cool neat aspects to it Bebop and rocksteady yeah thats totally ******** on everything tmnt is??? lol :trolleye: technodromo, yeah that to. Great fight scenes and action, yeah that's bad too, lol

Mexican blanket bandanas.

Mutant Schradder.

Alternate dimension turtle warriors, because Splinter lied.

And that ridiculous ending

no wonder you like the new designs. You have zero understanding of what you are a fan of.

[NinjaPug]

Oh, but there is.

I said other than the action scenes. What do we know is still in the movie other than the snow hill chase?

[Commenter 42]

Maybe we should post them as spoilers? Don't want to piss-off anyone by giving away parts of the movie, or get the forum in trouble?

[joe-eyeball]

Its been a while since I read that script but if I do recall, Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang/Technodrome all were barely in the script with little to no explanation of their origins or purpose. Just because these classic elements of TMNT lore appear in this script doesn't give much credability to idea that "there were some cool aspects in it". All of the changes that were made felt like they were done so just for hell of it and so they could cram as much content as they could to appease gullable fans. There wasnt anything artistic or creative about it. It was just barf on paper!

[samxsteal]

Honestly, I enjoyed the Blue Door script. The dialogue was awful, and pretty much nothing was held sacred, in terms of mythology. But, all in all, I thought it was fun and exciting. And, as TurtlesMikey points out, the action was awesome. I was thrilled to find, through filming location and the toys, that the downhill chase was preserved. This is the kind of TMNT action we've only seen in cartoons.

And there were some concepts I was open to. Casey and April's age and positions in life, Casey's story in general. The bulletproof shells idea sounds silly, but they did really cool things with it.

The script excepts and video that went viral really do focus on the absolute worst aspects of the script. You'd almost have to warm up to it, even a tiny bit, if you read the whole thing.

THIS THIS THIS.



Mexican blanket bandanas.

Mutant Schradder.

Alternate dimension turtle warriors, because Splinter lied.

And that ridiculous ending

no wonder you like the new designs. You have zero understanding of what you are a fan of.

Dude pretty much the whole escape from the shredder goons is something straight out of any tmnt universe and they all fit there character pretty close beside Minor details Ala Casey security guard????

And yes there are lots of terrible aspect to the script I'm not saying there aren't. I'm just saying that saying every single thing about the script has no redeeming qualities is just being petty.

[NinjaPug]

I'm just saying that saying every single thing about the script has no redeeming qualities is just being petty.


The fact that the script was for a TMNT movie, yes, I can say it had no redeeming qualities without being petty. That wasn't Turtles.

[samxsteal]

The fact that the script was for a TMNT movie, yes, I can say it had no redeeming qualities without being petty. That wasn't Turtles.

Seriously Dude like page 16-36 Is you stereo typical Tmnt in just about every aspect. Except Shradder Which could easily be changed from them fighting Military to fighting ninja and foot tech, Fix Casey character i little bit(change his job character slightly) change location, And it something almost straight out to 2k3 TMNT They all talk like the do in every version of tmnt they all act then same.

The retrofitting garden tools as weapons is almost straight out of Ross Campbell concepts

Im just saying you being too narrow minded to take into consideration that bits and pieces of the script could never be used in a turtles film. When simple reworking could fix everything

[pdizzle]

Mexican blanket bandanas.

Mutant Schradder.

Alternate dimension turtle warriors, because Splinter lied.

And that ridiculous ending

no wonder you like the new designs. You have zero understanding of what you are a fan of.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Let us not forget that the original comic fans flipped **** over the fred wolf series claiming that KE & PL sold out just to make money, but now it is one of the most loved and excepted of the tmnt universe. Then afterwords we got movies, next mutation, 2k3, 2007, nick, idw, and let us notforget everything from coming out of our shells tour, the christmas speacial, ext, ect, ect.....
im comenting on this because I too liked the script and thought it had much potential with the right actors, writers to dr the script and change some things but not all. I have been faithfully following tmnt for as long as I can remember and have accepted every incarnation to date, except next mutation. I think the same goes for the leaked script and an open mind for the new movie. The leaked script had the turtles personalitys dead on and was sorta mixed from nick and the 2k3 series, but I knew when reading it that I was reading the turtles. Anyway my point is, since I agree with samxsteals point I have to question yours on my behalf when you say you have zero understanding on what your a fan of. Some people deal with change well and accept it, others fight it all the way and eventually come around, and others fight it while never coming around. I for one want to accept the change with an open mind and if I decide I dont like it ill always have other versions to fall back on. Change can be a great thing.

[samxsteal]

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Let us not forget that the original comic fans flipped **** over the fred wolf series claiming that KE & PL sold out just to make money, but now it is one of the most loved and excepted of the tmnt universe. Then afterwords we got movies, next mutation, 2k3, 2007, nick, idw, and let us notforget everything from coming out of our shells tour, the christmas speacial, ext, ect, ect.....
im comenting on this because I too liked the script and thought it had much potential with the right actors, writers to dr the script and change some things but not all. I have been faithfully following tmnt for as long as I can remember and have accepted every incarnation to date, except next mutation. I think the same goes for the leaked script and an open mind for the new movie. The leaked script had the turtles personalitys dead on and was sorta mixed from nick and the 2k3 series, but I knew when reading it that I was reading the turtles. Anyway my point is, since I agree with samxsteals point I have to question yours on my behalf when you say you have zero understanding on what your a fan of. Some people deal with change well and accept it, others fight it all the way and eventually come around, and others fight it while never coming around. I for one want to accept the change with an open mind and if I decide I dont like it ill always have other versions to fall back on. Change can be a great thing.
Thank you this is exactly how i feel. ANd thank you for your post.

[Jester]

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Let us not forget that the original comic fans flipped **** over the fred wolf series claiming that KE & PL sold out just to make money, but now it is one of the most loved and excepted of the tmnt universe. Then afterwords we got movies, next mutation, 2k3, 2007, nick, idw, and let us notforget everything from coming out of our shells tour, the christmas speacial, ext, ect, ect.....
im comenting on this because I too liked the script and thought it had much potential with the right actors, writers to dr the script and change some things but not all. I have been faithfully following tmnt for as long as I can remember and have accepted every incarnation to date, except next mutation. I think the same goes for the leaked script and an open mind for the new movie. The leaked script had the turtles personalitys dead on and was sorta mixed from nick and the 2k3 series, but I knew when reading it that I was reading the turtles. Anyway my point is, since I agree with samxsteals point I have to question yours on my behalf when you say you have zero understanding on what your a fan of. Some people deal with change well and accept it, others fight it all the way and eventually come around, and others fight it while never coming around. I for one want to accept the change with an open mind and if I decide I dont like it ill always have other versions to fall back on. Change can be a great thing.
Did you seriously just compare this colossal mess to the FW show? Oye....

[TrickOrTreater]

Did you seriously just compare this colossal mess to the FW show? Oye....

Heh.

The thing about the original cartoon and Mirage is the same thing between Batman as he was originally portrayed for a long while to the Adam West series.

Batman originally was a dark, grim, vigilante that killed when necessary. Batman in the Adam West series was an officially sanctioned daytime crime fighter for Gotham City.

TMNT in the Mirage comics were gritty, violent, badass ninja assassins. TMNT in the cartoon were fun-loving, joke-cracking, pizza-eating ninja goofballs.

And the reason the Adam West series and the original TMNT cartoon were and are so beloved is because those interpretations were done WELL.

They took a concept that was dark and gritty and made it fun and funny for tv. But they made it really WELL in those parameters.

The subject matter was good and the re-tellings were good.

Perfectly viable concepts for a comedy tv show, as Denny O'Neil would say.

So to compare the original cartoon to this thing just...shouldn't ever happen.

This script takes everything that is the TMNT, turns it on its head and ***** in its mouth.

I don't give a bloody hell that it includes the Technodrome or Bebop and Rocksteady for a scene or two or Krang with two lines of dialogue.

TMNT media can and has included those and that quite a bit of that media has been GOOD and been FAITHFUL to the core concepts of TMNT.

This script was not. At all.

But not ONLY was it not at all faithful to TMNT in general, but it was also pretty bad in general, on its own.

Terrible, ****** dialogue being its major crime.

[Commenter 42]

The leaked script had the turtles personalitys dead on and was sorta mixed from nick and the 2k3 series, but I knew when reading it that I was reading the turtles. Anyway my point is, since I agree with samxsteals point I have to question yours on my behalf when you say you have zero understanding on what your a fan of ... Change can be a great thing.

Don't take it as a personal attack - but really a statement of fact.

If you make a film ABOUT an established group of characters, then THOSE ARE THE CHARACTERS.

Why change the origin? Why make them 6 feet tall? Why are they BULLETPROOF?

I would like to watch a new story about the characters I've grown up with. there's no reason to make changes to the basic story, however, theree are hundreds of storys that have not become films that could be used. you could create a new adventure from scratch. There are millions of ways to go in the creation of something new.

you want change? make them butterflies. Yep, it's now TMNB. Still cool watch two hours of ninja butterflies?
Of course not.

No more than I want to pay them to watch green apes with bullet proof shells, and a rug tied to their eyes.

invest in enriching the current story with new things happening - don't screw with what we know. It can't be improved on, and in fact, shouldn't be, as is evident in what we know so far.

And to my point, if you're willing to see things changed so drastically, then what are you a fan of? the color green? ninjas? brothers?

The people involved don't care about what they are making the way fans do.
A fan would be angry. A fan will not give them any money.

[Commenter 42]

Heh.

The thing about the original cartoon and Mirage is the same thing between Batman as he was originally portrayed for a long while to the Adam West series.

Batman originally was a dark, grim, vigilante that killed when necessary. Batman in the Adam West series was an officially sanctioned daytime crime fighter for Gotham City.

TMNT in the Mirage comics were gritty, violent, badass ninja assassins. TMNT in the cartoon were fun-loving, joke-cracking, pizza-eating ninja goofballs.

And the reason the Adam West series and the original TMNT cartoon were and are so beloved is because those interpretations were done WELL.

They took a concept that was dark and gritty and made it fun and funny for tv. But they made it really WELL in those parameters.

The subject matter was good and the re-tellings were good.

Perfectly viable concepts for a comedy tv show, as Denny O'Neil would say.

So to compare the original cartoon to this thing just...shouldn't ever happen.

This script takes everything that is the TMNT, turns it on its head and ***** in its mouth.

I don't give a bloody hell that it includes the Technodrome or Bebop and Rocksteady for a scene or two or Krang with two lines of dialogue.

TMNT media can and has included those and that quite a bit of that media has been GOOD and been FAITHFUL to the core concepts of TMNT.

This script was not. At all.

But not ONLY was it not at all faithful to TMNT in general, but it was also pretty bad in general, on its own.

Terrible, ****** dialogue being its major crime.

Also ^this^

[Commenter 42]

Also, in the blue door, what was the story really about?

Nothing. Literally, it was about nothing.

if you're going to do a reboot, tell the story, hell, any story.

it's not a series of events that go nowhere. it's not big set pieces that just happen.

There was only some insipid bit about splinter inventing the known origin story, when really something more ridiculous was the truth? That's the story?

And you liked it? Be serious!

[samxsteal]

Heh.

The thing about the original cartoon and Mirage is the same thing between Batman as he was originally portrayed for a long while to the Adam West series.

Batman originally was a dark, grim, vigilante that killed when necessary. Batman in the Adam West series was an officially sanctioned daytime crime fighter for Gotham City.

TMNT in the Mirage comics were gritty, violent, badass ninja assassins. TMNT in the cartoon were fun-loving, joke-cracking, pizza-eating ninja goofballs.

And the reason the Adam West series and the original TMNT cartoon were and are so beloved is because those interpretations were done WELL.

They took a concept that was dark and gritty and made it fun and funny for tv. But they made it really WELL in those parameters.

The subject matter was good and the re-tellings were good.

Perfectly viable concepts for a comedy tv show, as Denny O'Neil would say.

So to compare the original cartoon to this thing just...shouldn't ever happen.

This script takes everything that is the TMNT, turns it on its head and ***** in its mouth.

I don't give a bloody hell that it includes the Technodrome or Bebop and Rocksteady for a scene or two or Krang with two lines of dialogue.

TMNT media can and has included those and that quite a bit of that media has been GOOD and been FAITHFUL to the core concepts of TMNT.

This script was not. At all.

But not ONLY was it not at all faithful to TMNT in general, but it was also pretty bad in general, on its own.

Terrible, ****** dialogue being its major crime.
you do know that they were both hated on by fans of the original because they hated everything about what they saw and only Found out that they were done well after SEEING IT.

That's just what some fans do things.Obviously Because your doing it Now people. Did it for the 2k3 show. They did it for the nick show. They nit picked and tore it to pieces they hated on every aspect they didn't like and stated their opinions as fact, and yet once the shows came out people loved them. Because thinking you know how things will come together VS how they will actually come together are usually quite different.

This message board was filled with so many haters of the new show they hated just about everything that was leaked released and shown. Yet now that its out people realize how wrong they were. Why because they jumped to conclusions and had a picture in their heads about what they thought was going to be and it was wrong.

[samxsteal]

Also, in the blue door, what was the story really about?

Nothing. Literally, it was about nothing.

if you're going to do a reboot, tell the story, hell, any story.

it's not a series of events that go nowhere. it's not big set pieces that just happen.

There was only some insipid bit about splinter inventing the known origin story, when really something more ridiculous was the truth? That's the story?

And you liked it? Be serious!

I never said i liked the whole Script Your being seriously ridiculous. I said i liked aspect about it. and Said with time it could be turned into something great.

I like the escape Scene, I like them in the Barn, I liked them Creating there own weapons, I like Krangs involvement albeit shorter then is should have been. i liked Bebop and rocksteady being in the movie, I liked Dimension X In its basic concept being in the movie

Where aspect of those thing done wrong yes could those thing have been easily fixed yes.

Do i think they should have made that movie NO. Do i think they could have used that script and change aspect to turn it into something quintessentially TMNT yes. Because they could.

Did i think the planet turtles thing NO, Did i like how they handles April and casey NO, Did i like Schradder NO

But all of those things could have easily been fixed

[Commenter 42]

The point is, none of it was to be FIXED!
They were changing it, on PURPOSE!

The current designs will not be FIXED, shredder is white, the cast is terrible.

AND, they kept parts of the BLUE DOOR!

I know you'll love it. Clearly, you're a big fan of the words In the title.
Well you almost didn't even get that, but by some miracle, you did, so
Hooray!

[samxsteal]

The point is, none of it was to be FIXED!
They were changing it, on PURPOSE!

The current designs will not be FIXED, shredder is white, the cast is terrible.

AND, they kept parts of the BLUE DOOR!

I know you'll love it. Clearly, you're a big fan of the words In the title.
Well you almost didn't even get that, but by some miracle, you did, so
Hooray!

Im sure i will doesn't make me any less a fan of the turtles something that has been in my life since i was ONE. Yeah I'm not a dedicated enough fans of the turtle I just blindly fallow as long as it has turtles in the title.

Seriously Its not that i LOVE every single aspect of this movie production its that IM BEING SMART AND WAITING like a person should im not judging it before i see it.

Its fine you can be pissed of as much as you want and hate on it as much as you doesn't change my view, or Pdizzles view, or many 100s more All over the internet

And really if you think the tmnt designs are really that Drastic you're a fool.

Your stupid elitist attitude is what kills franchises and you dont even realize it.

[TrickOrTreater]

Nah, settling for crap just because is what kills franchises.

[TurtleMikey]

Oh, but there is.

This.

Alot, cosmetic. Like the large Turtles, militarized foot. But there definitely looks to be some general story beats and themes retained. Whether this is a good thing, or bad, remains to be seen. It just depends on what else they used.

[samxsteal]

Nah, settling for crap just because is what kills franchises.

Seriously You have No idea what the heck your talking about.
Truth its people hated on the nick show and showed just as much disdain towards it as you all show this movie, and it's pretty well known that the nick show to be great. Say what you will about the movie facts are you dont know and thats it. thats it. you dont know its crap, you're assuming its crap.

People bitch to bitch and Cynical people can find fault in anything. and that Exactly what you do. This could be a frame for frame reboot of the turtles and people would still bitch that's the facts

And yes Elitism Kill franchises because you pushing away change, you push away newer fans you alienate people, you belittle people, and you try to make your self out to be superior, That the worst kind of fan there is and why Comic books had the WORST fan of the past because they all felt to Entitled only ones worse are video game fans, and it suck because as much as it dwindling down its also ever growing. Thank GOD fans don't pay attention to **** like you and your fellow liked minds, because if they did they wouldn't be fans of the turtles. Or anything for that matter.

[TurtleMikey]

Heh.

The thing about the original cartoon and Mirage is the same thing between Batman as he was originally portrayed for a long while to the Adam West series.

Batman originally was a dark, grim, vigilante that killed when necessary. Batman in the Adam West series was an officially sanctioned daytime crime fighter for Gotham City.

TMNT in the Mirage comics were gritty, violent, badass ninja assassins. TMNT in the cartoon were fun-loving, joke-cracking, pizza-eating ninja goofballs.

And the reason the Adam West series and the original TMNT cartoon were and are so beloved is because those interpretations were done WELL.

They took a concept that was dark and gritty and made it fun and funny for tv. But they made it really WELL in those parameters.

The subject matter was good and the re-tellings were good.

Perfectly viable concepts for a comedy tv show, as Denny O'Neil would say.

So to compare the original cartoon to this thing just...shouldn't ever happen.

This script takes everything that is the TMNT, turns it on its head and ***** in its mouth.

I don't give a bloody hell that it includes the Technodrome or Bebop and Rocksteady for a scene or two or Krang with two lines of dialogue.

TMNT media can and has included those and that quite a bit of that media has been GOOD and been FAITHFUL to the core concepts of TMNT.

This script was not. At all.

But not ONLY was it not at all faithful to TMNT in general, but it was also pretty bad in general, on its own.

Terrible, ****** dialogue being its major crime.


This. This. Aaaaand this.

There's a BIG difference between crafting a new take on a story, and entirely deviating from the source material; typically, mutilating it in the process. Be it, tonally, thematically, or simply with what the story entails.

'The Blue Door' did the latter.

[Commenter 42]

Nah, settling for crap just because is what kills franchises.

Quoted for Accuracy, and because samxsteal is clearly only here to promote the film.

I'm not pissed off, I'm disappointed. In 5 months, we'll all be disappointed. You included.

If you think they look like the turtles, YOU are the fool, not I.

BTW if there are only 100's of fans for this film, it's already in trouble.

[Commenter 42]

Seriously You have No idea what the heck your talking about.
Truth its people hated on the nick show and showed just as much disdain towards it as you all show this movie, and it's pretty well known that the nick show to be great. Say what you will about the movie facts are you dont know and thats it. thats it. you dont know its crap, you're assuming its crap.

People bitch to bitch and Cynical people can find fault in anything. and that Exactly what you do. This could be a frame for frame reboot of the turtles and people would still bitch that's the facts

And yes Elitism Kill franchises because you pushing away change, you push away newer fans you alienate people, you belittle people, and you try to make your self out to be superior, That the worst kind of fan there is and why Comic books had the WORST fan of the past because they all felt to Entitled only ones worse are video game fans, and it suck because as much as it dwindling down its also ever growing. Thank GOD fans don't pay attention to **** like you and your fellow liked minds, because if they did they wouldn't be fans of the turtles. Or anything for that matter.

Sorry, what is your argument? That we expect too much?
Dad-"Hey kids have some chocolate
Kids-"Mmmm we love chocolate"
....
Kids-"Uh this chocolate tastes like crap"
Dad-"that's because it's dog s#!/"
Kids-"we don't want dog s#!/"
Dad-"change is good. Eat up."

[samxsteal]

Quoted for Accuracy, and because samxsteal is clearly only here to promote the film.

I'm not pissed off, I'm disappointed. In 5 months, we'll all be disappointed. You included.

If you think they look like the turtles, YOU are the fool, not I.

BTW if there are only 100's of fans for this film, it's already in trouble.Am i going to be disappointed IDK i doubt it But that's just me if you are I'm sorry that sucks for you. I appreciate Every Version of the turtles for what they were and what they did. Weather it open Kids mind to possibility of turtles actually existing like Coming out of there shells did for me as a young child.

They do look like turtles OMG They're still turtles, They all have there Masks weapons and personalities, What do you think a turtles would look like if they're anthropomorphized, and in the real world they would need noses and lips in order to function. nick toons have lips, the only reason they're so prominent in this version is because they're using facial scanning tech similar to Rise of the planet of the apes which of course means they will be more prominent.

I find it super ridiculous that many of you Hate these designs yet love one just as "extrememe" or different or unique, But these ones are where you draw the line COME ON that just stupid.

The internet is virtually split with the turtles movie But as far as i have seen from every website from here to the tiny little no names is that it generally more positive then negative about everything. Only slightly but that's great. it mean people are willing to wait and see if there concerns are warranted or not, while mindless bitching and moaning goes on.

[samxsteal]

Sorry, what is your argument? That we expect too much?
Dad-"Hey kids have some chocolate
Kids-"Mmmm we love chocolate"
....
Kids-"Uh this chocolate tastes like crap"
Dad-"that's because it's dog s#!/"
Kids-"we don't want dog s#!/"
Dad-"change is good. Eat up."

That completely Bull **** example its more like

As a chef Its like showing a person Ingredients and then them telling me they dont like those ingredient, Before i even prepare something.
They are so adamant that they will hate what i could make that they dont try it they already "know" they dont like it

But then once i combine all the ingredients IN THE RIGHT WAY (a way they might also not enjoy usually) then they taste it and find that Hey It taste great

http://www.chocolatefantasies.com/CRAPOLA.JPG

Hey look its chocolate poop. sure looks like it poop guess it has to be poop.

[Commenter 42]

They do look like turtles OMG They're still turtles, They all have there Masks weapons and personalities, What do you think a turtles would look like if they're anthropomorphized, and in the real world they would need noses and lips in order to function. nick toons have lips, the only reason they're so prominent in this version is because they're using facial scanning tech similar to Rise of the planet of the apes which of course means they will be more prominent.


You haven't got the slightest clue do you?
Like please, talk to me about animation. Tell me ALL about it.

You got the ape part right in any event. Monkeys in shells, yep!

[TrickOrTreater]

They all have there Masks weapons and personalities

Yeah you don't know that.

the only reason they're so prominent in this version is because they're using facial scanning tech similar to Rise of the planet of the apes which of course means they will be more prominent.

Smaug in the Desolation of Smaug was also mocap with facial recognition.

He didn't have human-like lips.

So yeah. That's not the reason.

[Commenter 42]

That completely Bull **** example its more like

As a chef Its like showing a person Ingredients and then them telling me they dont like those ingredient, Before i even prepare something.
They are so adamant that they will hate what i could make that they dont try it they already "know" they dont like it

But then once i combine all the ingredients IN THE RIGHT WAY (a way they might also not enjoy usually) then they taste it and find that Hey It taste great

Are you drunk?
That's not a rhetorical question.

The designs suck the end.

So it looks like poop, but it tastes good? But it still looks like poop...
Just the movie I was hoping for!

Your argument is invalid.

[samxsteal]

You haven't got the slightest clue do you?
Like please, talk to me about animation. Tell me ALL about it.

You got the ape part right in any event. Monkeys in shells, yep!

Well when they are essenitally the combination of Human beings and turtles thats what you get Larger green guy with shells, that happen to have noses to breath(which turtles actually have) and lips in order to form words.

Yeah you don't know that.



Smaug in the Desolation of Smaug was also mocap with facial recognition.

He didn't have human-like lips.

So yeah. That's not the reason.
Yeah I kind do based on they fact that each of there actor fit those character stereo types and have play those exact same kind of character in the past is pretty easy to assuming just like you do with just about anything

And yes yes he did have lips look closely when he talks he uses lip for form the words they come together just like human lips

So yes that is the reason. they have lips

Are you drunk?
That's not a rhetorical question.

The designs suck the end.

In your mind they do based on models and a a toy promotion poster so yeah you know exactly how they will look in the movie im glade you think so.

But as far as them sucking In your mind they do in other they dont that the joy of having opinions but i disagree as to tons of other people. its not universal o everyone hate them like you people seem to think.

[samxsteal]

Are you drunk?
That's not a rhetorical question.

The designs suck the end.

So it looks like poop, but it tastes good? But it still looks like poop...
Just the movie I was hoping for!

Your argument is invalid.

What I'm Saying it through a looking glass something may appear a certain way DOESN'T make it true just mean you perceiving it that way. and the perception could in fact be completely untrue.

Its like looking at that Chocolate and saying on a outside level it looks bad, but once you smell it hodl it and taste it its all great, and then its funny because you were scared it was really bad but all those worries were false.

Or again i will go the Chef Route, So some poeple say they hate a particular Dish I myselfs hated chicken for for ever because i thought it was dry and i just didnt like it. But if you prepare it correctly it can turn out amazing Even in everything that went into it on paper see terrible

Check out Molecular Gastronomy

Orange Soda, chicken, dry ice all seem like terrible thing to mix with and if you mix them improperly then yes it can turn out bad but you wont know until you try it.

[TrickOrTreater]

And yes yes he did have lips look closely when he talks he uses lip for form the words they come together just like human lips

So yes that is the reason. they have lips.

Oh my christ.

Smaug did not have human-like pouty lips like Bay's Turtles do. And yet he was also mocap.

So that isn't the reason.

The reason Bay's Turtles have pouty, human-like lips is not because of mocap facial recognition.

You're wrong. Just accept it.

[samxsteal]

Oh my christ.

Smaug did not have human-like pouty lips like Bay's Turtles do. And yet he was also mocap.

So that isn't the reason.

The reason Bay's Turtles have pouty, human-like lips is not because of mocap facial recognition.

You're wrong. Just accept it.

How am i wrong that why they have then look at the actors playing them and look at the face they mach up MIkey have larger lips because his actor has larger lips its pretty simple to grasp.

Smaug Didn't have pouty lip because his elongated snout doesn't lend to having those kind of lips but if you watch the performance of Benedict and smaug side by side you can see Smaug does have lips

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/benedict-cumberbatch-performs-mocap-smaug-682351

[TrickOrTreater]

How am i wrong that why they have then look at the actors playing them and look at the face they mach up MIkey have larger lips because his actor has larger lips its pretty simple to grasp.

It is astounding how you are not able to grasp simple logic.

Just because the actor has big lips, and they're using motion capture, doesn't mean they NEEDED TO/HAD TO give big human-like lips to the Turtles.

And you know why they SHOULDN'T have? Because their faces look freaking terrible. Mikey's and Raph's especially.

****.

[Technogeek29]

The reasons the Turtles look this way is because Were all still in our "everything must have realism to it phase". Marvel has moved from it and embraced its comic book absurdity. I wish DC would do the same.

[samxsteal]

It is astounding how you are not able to grasp simple logic.

Just because the actor has big lips, and they're using motion capture, doesn't mean they NEEDED TO/HAD TO give big human-like lips to the Turtles.

And you know why they SHOULDN'T have? Because their faces look freaking terrible. Mikey's and Raph's especially.

****.
Dude Im not even going to try with you, You're to Hardheaded to get it. Bye O_< ^_^

[TrickOrTreater]

Dude Im not even going to try with you, You're to Hardheaded to get it. Bye O_< ^_^

Yes, exactly.

You're wrong.

[samxsteal]

The reasons the Turtles look this way is because Were all still in our "everything must have realism to it phase". Marvel has moved from it and embraced its comic book absurdity. I wish DC would do the same.

Seeing as the more realistic Turtles has been what Fans have been wanting Since forever it shouldn't be surprising that they going that route.
Just saying

[samxsteal]

Yes, exactly.

You're wrong.

MMMhhhhmmmmm you sure are



Dude your like a child its great ^_^

[TrickOrTreater]

MMMhhhhmmmmm you sure are



Dude your like a child its great ^_^

I wasn't aware adults did things like this "^_^ ^_^ ^_^" over and over and over again.

[Jester]

MMMhhhhmmmmm you sure are



Dude your like a child its great ^_^
Kinda ironic, because his posts are the ones I don't have to strain through grammar and spelling issues to read correctly.

[samxsteal]

I wasn't aware adults did things like this "^_^ ^_^ ^_^" over and over and over again.
Sure do and i know multiple Adult who do.
Kinda ironic, because his posts are the ones I don't have to strain through grammar and spelling issues to read correctly.

Grammar is just a means of communication, Not everyone is perfect with grammar, and Blatantly calling people out to belittle them, Yeah that is a Sign Of immaturity, Grammar is Just cuz i dont give a **** could care less.
Im not writing a book im chatting on a freaking chat board, Being a dick and every-time your little friend feels threaten, coming out of your hiding hole to belittle me is a great Sign of true Immaturity.

http://nobullying.com/the-psyche-of-bullying-part-ii/ (http://nobullying.com/the-psyche-of-bullying-part-ii/)
Kinda Funny how this actually pertains to you HA!


Typically, Mean Girls tell you who they are because that reinforces their social status. Acting in groups, they attack reputations, because they want their victims to feel hated, ignored, socially-excluded, left out and driven away.


You guys really are great fans ^_^

[TrickOrTreater]

Sure do and i know multiple Adult who do.

Grammar is just a means of communication, Not everyone is perfect with grammar, and Blatantly calling people out to belittle them, Yeah that is a Sign Of immaturity, Grammar is Just cuz i dont give a **** could care less.
Im not writing a book im chatting on a freaking chat board, Being a dick and every-time your little friend feels threaten, coming out of your hiding hole to belittle me is a great Sign of true Immaturity.

http://nobullying.com/the-psyche-of-bullying-part-ii/ (http://nobullying.com/the-psyche-of-bullying-part-ii/)
Kinda Funny how this actually pertains to you HA!

http://i.imgur.com/1WUlT50.gif?1

[samxsteal]

http://i.imgur.com/1WUlT50.gif?1

Oh and by the way Out of the shadows turtles have lips to.

Just so you know.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-fAEA4RhTUg/0.jpghttp://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/ninja-turtles-poster-lead.jpg?w=600


Yeah These Guys are SO extreme:trolleye:

[TrickOrTreater]

Oh and by the way Out of the shadows turtles have lips to.

Just so you know.

YES I'M AWARE THAT THINGS WITH MOUTHS HAVE LIPS.

JESUS.

http://i.imgur.com/oFLkTow.jpg?1

I'M talking about the way Bay's Turtles' lips are not SUBTLE and DOWNPLAYED like OotS's designs are, but instead are pouty and and WAAAY too human-like and, for some reason in Mikey's and Raph's cases, are BLACK.

They look hideous.

OotS's designs are lightyears better than what we're getting in the movie.

[Jester]

There's still miles of difference between this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130601175551/tmnt2012series/images/d/d4/Tmnt_out_of_da_shadows_raph..jpg
and this:
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/screencrush.com/files/2014/01/tmnt-poster.jpg

[TrickOrTreater]

There's still miles of difference between this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130601175551/tmnt2012series/images/d/d4/Tmnt_out_of_da_shadows_raph..jpg
and this:
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/screencrush.com/files/2014/01/tmnt-poster.jpg

God I love OotS' designs.

Updated but faithful and subtle.

Without a bunch of unnecessary **** on them.

[samxsteal]

YES I'M AWARE THAT THINGS WITH MOUTHS HAVE LIPS.

JESUS.

http://i.imgur.com/oFLkTow.jpg?1

I'M talking about the way Bay's Turtles' lips are not SUBTLE and DOWNPLAYED like OotS's designs are, but instead are pouty and and WAAAY too human-like and, for some reason in Mikey's and Raph's cases, are BLACK.

They look hideous.

OotS's designs are lightyears better than what we're getting in the movie.

And you freaking call me racist for saying something like that Dude your such a hypocrite:trolleye:

ANy way Mikey has larger lip because his actor has larger lips sits simple as that. And that's all there is to it. say what you want but that's why his lips are so large.

There's still miles of difference between this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130601175551/tmnt2012series/images/d/d4/Tmnt_out_of_da_shadows_raph..jpg
and this:
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/screencrush.com/files/2014/01/tmnt-poster.jpg

IDK they both seem pretty close
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-fAEA4RhTUg/0.jpghttp://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/ninja-turtles-poster-lead.jpg?w=600

Raphs nose looks almost exactly then same and his lower lip looks almost exactly the same.

[TrickOrTreater]

And you freaking call me racist for saying something like that Dude your such a hypocrite:trolleye:

Jesus ****ing christ.

Their lips are LITERALLY black. The COLOR black.

And it looks terrible.

[samxsteal]

http://cdn9001.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/leo-pop1-630x846.jpghttp://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.site/PHqa20IT7u1Rts_2_m.jpghttp://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130904183736/tmnt/images/6/69/Teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-out-of-the-shadaows.jpeg

these really aren't that extremely different either

[TrickOrTreater]

http://cdn9001.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/leo-pop1-630x846.jpghttp://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.site/PHqa20IT7u1Rts_2_m.jpghttp://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130904183736/tmnt/images/6/69/Teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-out-of-the-shadaows.jpeg

these really aren't that extremely different either

Ah, no.

Maquette Leo has clearly visible, pouty human-like lips. OotS Leo does not.

[samxsteal]

Jesus ****ing christ.

Their lips are LITERALLY black. The COLOR black.

And it looks terrible.

So your basing your Opinion on the face of the turtle because of how it was lit in that particular Shot?

[TrickOrTreater]

So your basing your Opinion on the face of the turtle because of how it was lit in that particular Shot?

I'm basing my opinion on literally the only thing available that shows us the Turtle's faces.

A visible, tangible thing that I can see with my own two eyes.

You're basing your opinions on what-if's and but-also's.

As well, in that first leaked maquette images that showed Raphael, EVEN BACK THEN, I had a feeling that his face would look ugly.

And I was proven right with the toy fair poster.

EDIT: As well, Leo looks exactly the same from maquette to poster and his lips are still bad.

[samxsteal]

Ah, no.

Maquette Leo has clearly visible, pouty human-like lips. OotS Leo does not.

No he has clearly human like lips But they're not that OMG EXTREME LIPS
there just human like

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/JsXEWXri1Q4/hqdefault.jpgWhile not being as prominent his lips are still there his lower lip is much more visible in a high resolution photo as apposed to a lower resolution game capture.

And the maquette leos lips are visible but not as in your face even compared to his Poster counterpart. which still aren't that extreme

[TrickOrTreater]

No he has clearly human like lips

What kind of humans have you seen in your life?

[samxsteal]

I'm basing my opinion on literally the only thing available that shows us the Turtle's faces.

A visible, tangible thing that I can see with my own two eyes.

You're basing your opinions on what-if's and but-also's.

As well, in that first leaked maquette images that showed Raphael, EVEN BACK THEN, I had a feeling that his face would look ugly.

And I was proven right with the toy fair poster.

EDIT: As well, Leo looks exactly the same from maquette to poster and his lips are still bad.

A toy far poster that is no better then glorified digital artwork that is commonly known to not show the true Appearance of the fully realized movie versions.

And LEo looks barely anything like the MAquette version.

[samxsteal]

What kind of humans have you seen in your life?

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2013/06/ashton_kutcher_lips.jpghttp://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.site/PHqa20IT7u1Rts_2_m.jpg

BASIC HUMAN LIPS

take it from an artist

[TrickOrTreater]

A toy far poster that is no better then glorified digital artwork that is commonly known to not show the true Appearance of the fully realized movie versions.

Even though they all look just nigh on identical to the maquettes versions.

But then again, it doesn't matter.

Because they wouldn't have put them on the poster looking like that if that's not how they looked in the movie. Just with better rendered cg maybe.

[TrickOrTreater]

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2013/06/ashton_kutcher_lips.jpghttp://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.site/PHqa20IT7u1Rts_2_m.jpg

BASIC HUMAN LIPS

take it from an artist

You were talking about the OotS designs!

Do I really have to hold your hand through your OWN posts?!

[samxsteal]

Even though they all look just nigh on identical to the maquettes versions.

But then again, it doesn't matter.

Because they wouldn't have put them on the poster looking like that if that's not how they looked in the movie. Just with better rendered cg maybe.

Thats not true

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71fIfNk-7fL._SL1500_.jpg

Cuz thor totally wears his helmet all the time

[TrickOrTreater]

Thats not true

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71fIfNk-7fL._SL1500_.jpg

Cuz thor totally wears his helmet all the time

Not even at all relevant to the Turtles' FACES.

Goddamn you must have had an entire circus in your head to jump through those mental hoops.

[samxsteal]

You were talking about the OotS designs!

Do I really have to hold your hand through your OWN posts?!

No do I

Ah, no.

Maquette Leo has clearly visible, pouty human-like lips. OotS Leo does not.


No he has clearly human like lips But they're not that OMG EXTREME LIPS
there just human like

I was referring to the Maquette leo

[TrickOrTreater]

No do I


I was referring to the Maquette leo

No, THIS post.

No he has clearly human like lips But they're not that OMG EXTREME LIPS
there just human like

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/JsXEWXri1Q4/hqdefault.jpgWhile not being as prominent his lips are still there his lower lip is much more visible in a high resolution photo as apposed to a lower resolution game capture.

And the maquette leos lips are visible but not as in your face even compared to his Poster counterpart. which still aren't that extreme

Referring to the OotS designs.

[samxsteal]

Not even at all relevant to the Turtles' FACES.

Goddamn you must have had an entire circus in your head to jump through those mental hoops.

The whole reason for that poster is for the Marketing of the TOYS, it is an artist depiction of said character like Said thor example above. That's why the packaging has those photos on them. There purely used for the figures. They do not Accurately show visually how they will look on screen.

[TrickOrTreater]

The whole reason for that poster is for the Marketing of the TOYS, it is an artist depiction of said character like Said thor example above. That's why the packaging has those photos on them. There purely used for the figures. They do not Accurately show visually how they will look on screen.

How far could you possibly reach to come to this conclusion?

The Toy Fair poster designs look IDENTICAL to the maquettes.

That's what we're getting. It'll probably be just rendered better in the movie. Hopefully.

But that's how they're going to look.

Excuses, excuses.

[samxsteal]

No, THIS post.



Referring to the OotS designs.

What the Hell are you talking about.
We were talking about the Maquette......... SMH

[samxsteal]

How far could you possibly reach to come to this conclusion?Im not reaching. Where did the photos come from? A toy Fair. Are the Images on the Packaging for the toys? Yes. Are graphics used on movie tie in toy lines Accurate to how the character will appear on screen? NO

The Toy Fair poster designs look IDENTICAL to the maquettes.No they don't Leos lips are less prominent, Raph doesn't have the sunglasses, Don's not wearing his Glasses, both mikey and raphs faces look totally different in shape.
Dons face is almost completely different shape as well. Also their proportion are almost totally different.

That's what we're getting. It'll probably be just rendered better in the movie. Hopefully.I bet you they will look different on screen then they do in the toy fair poster.

But that's how they're going to look.

If your talking about the Maquette yes your probably right but seeing as everything on the maquette is more subtle, then that's not an issue

[TrickOrTreater]

Im not reaching Where did the photos come from? A toy Fair. Are the Images on the Packaging for the toys? Yes. Are graphics used on movie tie in toy lines Accurate to how the character will appear on screen? NO

No they don't Leos lips are less prominent, Raph doesn't have the sunglasses, Don's not wearing his Glasses, both mikey and raphs faces look totally different in shape.
Dons face is almost completely different shape as well. Also their proportion are almost totally different.

I bet you they will look different on screen then they do in the toy fair poster.


If your talking about the Maquette yes your probably right but seeing as everything on the maquette is more subtle that not an issue

Oh my god.

I'm not even sure if you have working eyes anymore.

[samxsteal]

Oh my god.

I'm not even sure if you have working eyes anymore.

Ive got every image right in from on me and ill tell you the proportions of the maquette Vs the toy fair poster are different for just about all the turtle the only one who has just about the same proportions is leo but then his lips are more prominent on the poster then the maquette


ANy way going to bed HAve fun

[TrickOrTreater]

Ive got every image right in from on me and ill tell you the proportions of the maquette Vs the toy fair poster are different for just about all the turtle the only one who has just about the same proportions is leo but then his lips are more prominent on the poster then the maquette

That's just...not true but okay. Whatever you say, pal.

[Jester]

The only one I can get a clear view of on either is Leo (The maquettes of Raph, Don and Mikey are like looking for swords in those Lego pics.) and they're pretty similar:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Leo-2.png

[TrickOrTreater]

The only one I can get a clear view of on either is Leo (The maquettes of Raph, Don and Mikey are like looking for swords in those Lego pics.) and they're pretty similar:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Jesterangelo/Leo-2.png

The only difference is one is looking up and the other is looking down.

[Candy Kappa]

Debate all you want, but giving the turtles a primate-like nose, a philtrum and human/mammal lips, especially when it looks badly meshed on the face. A poorly done texture job, for a subpar poster and apparently final toy package, which is disheartening.

Uncanny valley, here I come! Whenever the movie hits netflix.

[Commenter 42]

Debate all you want, but giving the turtles a primate-like nose, a philtrum and human/mammal lips, especially when it looks badly meshed on the face. A poorly done texture job, for a subpar poster and apparently final toy package, which is disheartening.

Uncanny valley, here I come! Whenever the movie hits netflix.

You see Sam? We are not bullying you. We all agree. The designs look terrible.
Their faces are ugly. WE NO LIKE!!!

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly. I understand that they're doing this in motion capture, but they don't need to put lips on the Turtles like that. Sure, the Nick Turtles have lips, too, but it's not exaggerated to the point where they look like they've had f*cking plastic surgery. The designs suck. Plain and simple.

[Candy Kappa]

And, for the most parts, previous turtle designs with a more lip-like mouth usually only sport the lower part of the lips, while the upper part og the lip is more integrated into the overall part of the snout.

case in point, leonardo from OotS

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2013/06/2013-06-27-ninja_turtles_leonardo-e1372331128667.jpg

His mouth is perfectly fitted into the design, and is fully animated for lipsynching. Which can be viewed in the game, without having to plaster this guy's lips on them:

http://edgecast.metatube-files.buscafs.com/uploads/videos/image/image_182502_3.jpg

A proper animator can animate a mouth without it looking hyper realistic as a human mouth. it's not hard, and half the job is done with MoCap.

[Leo656]

Trick and Sam should just Do It already.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1794599_474802679286063_430353222_n.jpg

^^That's how I feel about that script, the new designs, and this never-ending argument about all of it.

[TurtleMikey]

The only difference is one is looking up and the other is looking down.

And of course, one is three dimensional and the other is two dimensional.


There is no difference beyond that.

[Candy Kappa]

And of course, one is three dimensional and the other is two dimensional.


There is no difference beyond that.

They are both 2d in picture form

[samxsteal]

You see Sam? We are not bullying you. We all agree. The designs look terrible.
Their faces are ugly. WE NO LIKE!!!

This isn't rue yes All the people who replied dont like the freaking picture but most realize is might be smart to wait so something more tangible to judge. I know for a fact there are tons of people who like the designs, that's just part of being a fan. There are those who like things and those don't, it's just part of it.

[TrickOrTreater]

This isn't rue yes All the people who replied dont like the freaking picture but most realize is might be smart to wait so something more tangible to judge. I know for a fact there are tons of people who like the designs, that's just part of being a fan. There are those who like things and those don't, it's just part of it.

"Just wait and see some images of the Turtles before you judge!"

*images of the Turtles come out*

"Just wait and see the teaser before you judge!"

*teaser comes out*

"Just wait and see the movie before you judge!"

*movie comes out*

"You're just a whiny nostalgic fanboy :trolleye::trolleye::trolleye::trolleye:"

[BubblyShell22]

Hey, I'm willing to see the movie at least once just to see what we're getting, but I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. We haven't even gotten a trailer yet, so until I see something on TV or whatever, I'm not going to act like this is going to be the best movie ever. I liked the 2007 movie for the most part with the exception of the monster plot and the lack of Donnie and Mikey. Now I'm afraid that it'll be all about April and not about the Turtles at all.

We can still have our fears and doubts, Sam. Stop acting like we all have to just accept what is and just wait. We don't have to be optimistic.

[Commenter 42]

Here's a question.

Why do you like the designs? I find it disturbing that you're forcing everyone to explain their disinterest, while you counter with ill conceived cooking analogies.

Pony-up Sam.
And try to do it without using words like awesome, cool, or amazing.

Get specific.

[Leo656]

"Just wait and see some images of the Turtles before you judge!"

*images of the Turtles come out*

"Just wait and see the teaser before you judge!"

*teaser comes out*

"Just wait and see the movie before you judge!"

*movie comes out*

"You're just a whiny nostalgic fanboy :trolleye::trolleye::trolleye::trolleye:"

That is exactly, 100% how I'm predicting certain people are going to react.

So many people have invested so much emotion into the potential of this film, that if it turns out the opposite of what they expect, they will never, EVER admit they were wrong.

If this turns out to be the "Superman III" of TMNT movies, damn right I'm going to sh*t all over it. Everything we've seen so far seems indicative of that. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I was a vocal opponent of a lot of things going on with "Man of Steel" throughout the entire production, I admit I went into it semi-resentful and almost hoping I wouldn't like it, and it absolutely changed my mind. It CAN happen.

Let's see if everyone else nuts up and actually admits it if the movie either surpasses or falls below expectations. I don't *think* I'm going to like it. But if I do, I do, and I'll say so. We'll see what people are saying in August. If the movie objectively sucks, and the best defense people can muster is "Hey, it's different, and change is good," we'll know that some people are just f*cking marks for TMNT.

[Lil G]

Thanks everyone who sent me the script, I really appreciate it!

As for wherever this thread wandered off to... yeahhh...

http://www.egotripland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/KanyeShrug-e1333727990637.jpg

[GrapeSoda]

Thanks everyone who sent me the script, I really appreciate it!

As for wherever this thread wandered off to... yeahhh...

http://www.egotripland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/KanyeShrug-e1333727990637.jpg

was it the original draft or a revised version? i'm curious. i've been trying to get my mitts one too.

[samxsteal]

Here's a question.

Why do you like the designs? I find it disturbing that you're forcing everyone to explain their disinterest, while you counter with ill conceived cooking analogies.

Pony-up Sam.
And try to do it without using words like awesome, cool, or amazing.

Get specific.
Mikey To me looks like quintessential Mikey, He has always been the surfer/slacker of the group, always and him wearing puka shells and what looks like wetsuit pants seem to me a funny little nod to his personality. I like his long bandana just a personal preference. I like the way he looks in the maquette, he’s lean and shorter than the rest, fit and looks like he will be doing a lot of cool martial arts. His actor is hilariously funny well witted, and should fit his personality awesomely. I can see his face with in the toy fair poster, and im excited to see some awesome expressive turtles. Also his stunt doubles are great, one a skate boarder which should be good and ones a great martial artist so at the very least we will be seeing him kick some butt.


Don to me look pretty good as well. I like his samurai esque armor skirt, I love how he is taller than the rest. I like his tech pack on his back, it looks like something straight out of Mirages later comics run of the turtles Cyborg Don anyone? His Bo staff looks like s took stub batons and created his own awesome stun staff. Knight vision goggles and stuff reminds me of Batman in a way with his detective skills. I could see Donny using them to fine that missing clue, or find those wires that open that top secret room they're not supposed to be in. I love his Actor he’s so funny and plays a nerdy side of Donny perfectly totally remind me of nick style Donny, i could see him being his brains funny Donny self then kicking some butt.


Raph this dude look huge but i think it is a good thing. He’s really not that much bigger in comparison to the rest, the look of His sais are freaking awesome in this movie, I don’t mind the "do rag" mask seeing as this has been done several times within the turtles history. His get up looks like he threw on rags from a victim he just kick the crap out of. I love the raps. It’s one thing i love about the nick show and the IDK versions. Real fighters rap their joints. The whole barbarian gladiator thing works for raph, that’s just how he is, and i think it’s great. His actor if freaking great too, Funny, pumped up, as far as I'm concerned seems to be a fan of the turtles. His stunt double is also an amazing martial artist dudes a beast.


Leo, This Is perfect to me this is Leo, Bushido practicing sword wielding bad ass. I love his Nike shin guard turned gauntlets it’s freaking great I love his samurai look, this reminds me so much of 2k3 Leo from the lost episodes. He's big but not too big. I don’t find his face all that off putting i really don’t mind the lips just seems to me a morphing of a turtle and a human and seems logical. His actor is the only actor out of the turtles I’m worried about. Seeing as he hasn't done much but from what i have seen of him he’s funny, and has the correct body type for Leo, He has also won many awards for acting from his college.


Megan Fox is one thing I was really worried about in the beginning and I admit it sucks that other great actresses tried out and the chose her. But this kinda makes me think if other tried out and they still went with Megan Fox there had to be a reason and she was already let go for some pretty extreme reasons so there must be something we just don’t know yet. But I could be very wrong hope im not, but could be.


Danny Woodburn Hes kinda growing on me the dudes a great actor has been in a lot of great things. His size is no doubt why they went with him. I anxiously awaiting to see how he turns out.


I like Will Arnett, He is really funny and while hes become a rising start I don’t think he will really be the center of attention like some think He started out as a side actor who was funny and im betting this is exactly what this role is.


I love Abby Elliott She funny and could see a small scene with Vernon and her as Erma bickering back and forth like in the ot show.


I Personally Love Fichtner and he’s the one actor I thought no one would freak out over. The dudes a freaking star. Award winning actor who is still pretty fit for this “old bum”. Plays a great character actor Great Villain, with a deep menacing voice. I love the armor TO me it just looks like Nick series shredder mixed with another version of shredder I’ve posted the image before. And it looks really badass like if you saw that guys walking toward you you’d freak out.


If the Baxter rumor is true then J Todd should be amazing he’s as far as I’ve looked a great Broadway actor and should be amazing as Baxter.


Minae Noji As Karai, should also be freaking great.


I like the Leaked Photo of the Japanese Photo that’s supposed to be in Shredders Thrown room


I like Leaked info about the Hara-kiri and the guy talking about Japanese traditions.


While Nemec’s And Applebaulm’s script was mostly crap. I liked a lot of little things about it and if they were to have reworked it then if could have potentially ben turned into something I could see being completely turtles.


Evan Daugherty Seems like a great person to rework and create a great tmnt movie. His movies are action packed. Hes a great writer and has won awards for some of his screen plays.


Johnathan Liebesman Has A lot of potential that not a lot of people are giving him While Battle LA and Wrath of the Titans Were lacking at the box office both films have a lot of redeeming qualities, and his film killing room while not the best movie has a lot of great aspects.


As for Michael Bay. Personally I like the transformers movies. Are they the best movies in the world? No. Are they transformers? Yes. And say what you will the Guy does give a lot of Fans service. Adding character that are wanted by fans, adding plot points as Easter eggs for fans, Getting the voice of Optimus, and Megatron(thought late for Megatron). Were there hick up on the way? YUP, Transformers 2 and 3 Suffered from a writers Strike right in the middle of production, and with such little time he rewrote and finished them and Added his own personal comedy(transformer balls??? Come on U_U). But he has proven to be a great write when he has the time and willing to put into it. So Him producing it really doesn’t bug me much, And the dude knows what he doing. You can’t have tons of Multimillion dollar movies, and not know what you’re doing.


I love how they are constantly expressing their love of the franchise at events, Kevin and other working on the movies and they all seem very positive and I know that because they have to. But I’m not sure I just get excited every time a new interview pops up and yet again they're trying to express that peoples worries are for no reason, and should just wait.


I also love how Every Fan who has seen aspects first hand have nothing Negative to say and only praise. They're from a bunch of different news sites, reviewers, and fans. And everything heard from them first hand is all positive and I love that and gives me a lot of faith.

[TrickOrTreater]

That is exactly, 100% how I'm predicting certain people are going to react.

So many people have invested so much emotion into the potential of this film, that if it turns out the opposite of what they expect, they will never, EVER admit they were wrong.

If this turns out to be the "Superman III" of TMNT movies, damn right I'm going to sh*t all over it. Everything we've seen so far seems indicative of that. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I was a vocal opponent of a lot of things going on with "Man of Steel" throughout the entire production, I admit I went into it semi-resentful and almost hoping I wouldn't like it, and it absolutely changed my mind. It CAN happen.

Let's see if everyone else nuts up and actually admits it if the movie either surpasses or falls below expectations. I don't *think* I'm going to like it. But if I do, I do, and I'll say so. We'll see what people are saying in August. If the movie objectively sucks, and the best defense people can muster is "Hey, it's different, and change is good," we'll know that some people are just f*cking marks for TMNT.

I've said time and again, I WANT to like this movie. I want it to be awesome.

But goddamn near 95% of what we've seen indicates that it will be the opposite of awesome.

My expectations are already so, so low that if it DOESN'T exceed them, then...wow.

And my expectations are "it'll be stupid as hell and a poor TMNT movie, but it'll sure look pretty."

[Powder]

I like his tech pack on his back, it looks like something straight out of Mirages later comics run of the turtles Cyborg Don anyone?


http://i61.tinypic.com/16k2hwj.png

Oh, so you are blind.

[samxsteal]

http://i61.tinypic.com/16k2hwj.png

Oh, so you are blind.
Dude no need to be a jerk

Im not talking about the freaking poster im talking about

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140129124132/tmnt/images/b/b8/Donatello_2014.jpghttp://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Donatello_nm2.jpg

[TrickOrTreater]

Dude no need to be a jerk

Im not talking about the freaking poster im talking about

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140129124132/tmnt/images/b/b8/Donatello_2014.jpghttp://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Donatello_nm2.jpg

http://screenrant.com/tmnt-4-concept-art-kirby/

Oh god...oh GOD.

[samxsteal]

http://screenrant.com/tmnt-4-concept-art-kirby/

Oh god...oh GOD.

I dont see a problem So he looks like a concept don

still that's what it looks like to me and that's not a bad thing i think it looks cool

[Technogeek29]

What is the Turtles vehicle called in this movie? Please tell me its not the Shell raizer? Don't get me wrong I love the name but I rather it have its own original name.

[samxsteal]

What is the Turtles vehicle called in this movie? Please tell me its not the Shell raizer? Don't get me wrong I love the name but I rather it have its own original name.

Its Shell raiser 2

[TrickOrTreater]

What is the Turtles vehicle called in this movie? Please tell me its not the Shell raizer? Don't get me wrong I love the name but I rather it have its own original name.

http://i.imgur.com/F9HAAVW.jpg?1

Check out the license plate.

[TrickOrTreater]

I dont see a problem So he looks like a concept don

still that's what it looks like to me and that's not a bad thing i think it looks cool

Of course you do.

[Powder]

Dude no need to be a jerk

Im not talking about the freaking poster im talking about

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140129124132/tmnt/images/b/b8/Donatello_2014.jpghttp://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Donatello_nm2.jpg


Aaaaaaand that's not Image Don, guy. That design wasn't even used for anything.

[Technogeek29]

http://i.imgur.com/F9HAAVW.jpg?1

Check out the license plate.

Ugh come on their's still plenty of Turtle puns to milk for name:ohwell:

The Colossocheyls admittively hard for children to pronounce. Or something simple like Shellshocked are call it the Red slider. Most fans will get the joke.

[Leo656]

Not gonna lie, I hated Cyborg Don, so comparing the movie Don to that isn't going to entice me, more like push me too far the other way. "Donnie's into machines... let's more or less turn him into one!" Yeah. Nah. He's not Data. Didn't care for it. Glad the movie isn't taking it that far. Still not a fan of the Proton Pack. Or the armored loincloth protecting nonexistent genitals or whatever it's for.

And it was Image, not Mirage, you probably knew/meant that. And 90% of that entire run is debatable, at best, among fans. So it may not be the best place to start cherry-picking ideas. Leo gets his hand cut off and gets a Wolverine-style wrist-blade upgrade in the movie, I'm walkin'. I know, it'd probably be "awesome" and "bad-ass." Also unnecessary and stoopit. Sowwy.

If they wanted to get all "edgy" with the look, they could have just done the angle where Raph loses an eye and has to wear an eyepatch. Since that's more or less canon in every version. I'd be OK with that. I actually really like how Archie tinkered with the designs for the Future TMNT. Leo's leather jacket = Win.

See, there's room to tinker without making it look like a f*ckin' joke.

[TrickOrTreater]

Ugh come on their's still plenty of Turtle puns to milk for name:ohwell:

The Colossocheyls admittively hard for children to pronounce. Or something simple like Shellshocked are call it the Red slider. Most fans will get the joke.

I wouldn't have minded Shellshocker.

[samxsteal]

Aaaaaaand that's not Image Don, guy. That design wasn't even used for anything.What ever you dont have to be a jerk about everything seriously. I was just expressing my views on things like i was asked to Do. I think this don has aspect that remind me of Cyborg don as well and Kevins concept designs. Yes do i like them, Is that a problem????

Am i glad its not as extreme as a fully Cryborged out Don yes but the aspects given to don seem esthetically pleasing to me and fits his character

http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/image/04/04.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/__8tv2laMEBk/TOCLOZlrahI/AAAAAAAAErs/e7ndcdYGGEU/s400/LeoAndCyborg01.jpghttp://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131116232046/tmnt/images/9/91/Donnie_image.jpghttp://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Donatello_nm2.jpghttp://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140129124132/tmnt/images/b/b8/Donatello_2014.jpg

[TrickOrTreater]

Oh my god those are terrible.

[Leo656]

They could... I'unno... keep it semi-grounded and just call it "The Van"? I mean... just being honest... don't we generally make fun of people who name their vehicles in real life? I mean, what's the reason they'd give their van a Title?

Oh... right... because "The Van" doesn't look good on the toy's box.

[samxsteal]

They could... I'unno... keep it semi-grounded and just call it "The Van"? I mean... just being honest... don't we generally make fun of people who name their vehicles in real life? I mean, what's the reason they'd give their van a Title?

Oh... right... because "The Van" doesn't look good on the toy's box.

-_^ my whole family names are cars every single one. I guess it was more that my dad appreciates cars and are cars were always kind of part of the family we had them all a very long time. I dont really do it anymore but my sister still does with her family.

[Leo656]

I think this don has aspect that remind me of Cyborg don as well and Kevins concept designs. Yes do i like them, Is that a problem????


Nope, not implicitly. It does sort of expose a certain questionable taste. It's an opinion. It's valid. It's not "wrong". Just... questionable.

I know a lot of people liked Don as a cyborg. I've never heard a single GOOD reason to justify it, but I do know not everyone hated it.

I do admit that, while it's grown on me a little, I initially loathed the Image run for the same reason the new movie has my ass hairs up: F*ckin' with it just to f*ck with it. I don't hate it as much as I once did, but it's still way, way down on my list of TMNT stuff. There's literally nothing from it I want to see in a movie.

-_^ my whole family names are cars every single one. I guess it was more that my dad appreciates cars and are cars were always kind of part of the family we had them all a very long time. I dont really do it anymore but my sister still does with her family.

Ultimately nothing wrong with that, but... it is something that some people find a bit silly, that's all. Me, personally, I don't care. S'fine. Most people snicker, just sayin'.

[Technogeek29]

They could... I'unno... keep it semi-grounded and just call it "The Van"? I mean... just being honest... don't we generally make fun of people who name their vehicles in real life? I mean, what's the reason they'd give their van a Title?

Oh... right... because "The Van" doesn't look good on the toy's box.

But Leo there's no money in "The Van"™ :D

[samxsteal]

Nope, not implicitly. It does sort of expose a certain questionable taste. It's an opinion. It's valid. It's not "wrong". Just... questionable.

I know a lot of people liked Don as a cyborg. I've never heard a single GOOD reason to justify it, but I do know not everyone hated it.

I do admit that, while it's grown on me a little, I initially loathed the Image run for the same reason the new movie has my ass hairs up: F*ckin' with it just to f*ck with it. I don't hate it as much as I once did, but it's still way, way down on my list of TMNT stuff. There's literally nothing from it I want to see in a movie.



Ultimately nothing wrong with that, but... it is something that some people find a bit silly, that's all. Me, personally, I don't care. S'fine. Most people snicker, just sayin'.

I love the 2k3 run sainw, And i know for a fact a bunch of people also highly appreciated. Even having several Fan comics that a very great

[Leo656]

Honestly been a while since I seen Same As It Never Was so I'd have to refresh my memory before I could talk more about it.

There's storyline context and a time and place to get "creative" with their look. I don't think the new movie's the best place for it. In cartoons and comics and toys, they've had all kinds of looks, briefly. THESE designs, as the main look of the mainstream movie? Nah. Not at all.

You have to take into account how people, in general, think. Example: For ten years, while working on a new Superman movie, WB kept announcing they were most likely going to change the suit. Everything from black leather to razor blades to no cape were on the table. And then, finally, they showed Routh in the Superman Returns suit... and everyone flipped their sh*t saying it wasn't accurate enough! It was 99.9999% exactly the same as ever, and one or two little changes still pissed everyone off!

It's clear you're an "I'm up for anything" kinda guy, sam. Terrific. That's not the general public, who are ostensibly the audience for the film. And that says nothing of the "purists". I'm merely asking you to accept the FACT that the majority of the human population prefer things stay exactly as they are, they prefer "safe" and "familiar", and rebuke even the smallest change. Human nature, guy.

They're trying to rebuild a damaged (film) brand. They don't need to be gettin' all cutesy, they need to play it safe and save all that tinkering for the sequels, once they've already won everyone over. Business Sense + Common Sense = Oodles O' F*ckin Cash.

[TrickOrTreater]

Honestly been a while since I seen Same As It Never Was so I'd have to refresh my memory before I could talk more about it.

There's storyline context and a time and place to get "creative" with their look. I don't think the new movie's the best place for it. In cartoons and comics and toys, they've had all kinds of looks, briefly. THESE designs, as the main look of the mainstream movie? Nah. Not at all.

You have to take into account how people, in general, think. Example: For ten years, while working on a new Superman movie, WB kept announcing they were most likely going to change the suit. Everything from black leather to razor blades to no cape were on the table. And then, finally, they showed Routh in the Superman Returns suit... and everyone flipped their sh*t saying it wasn't accurate enough! It was 99.9999% exactly the same as ever, and one or two little changes still pissed everyone off!

It's clear you're an "I'm up for anything" kinda guy, sam. Terrific. That's not the general public, who are ostensibly the audience for the film. And that says nothing of the "purists". I'm merely asking you to accept the FACT that the majority of the human population prefer things stay exactly as they are, they prefer "safe" and "familiar", and rebuke even the smallest change. Human nature, guy.

They're trying to rebuild a damaged (film) brand. They don't need to be gettin' all cutesy, they need to play it safe and save all that tinkering for the sequels, once they've already won everyone over. Business Sense + Common Sense = Oodles O' F*ckin Cash.

They have screwed the ****ing pooch on that one, so far.

[Leo656]

Well, they got people handling it who don't care past a paycheck. It's just a job. They got no soul, brutha. No soul and no funk.

[samxsteal]

Honestly been a while since I seen Same As It Never Was so I'd have to refresh my memory before I could talk more about it.

There's storyline context and a time and place to get "creative" with their look. I don't think the new movie's the best place for it. In cartoons and comics and toys, they've had all kinds of looks, briefly. THESE designs, as the main look of the mainstream movie? Nah. Not at all.

You have to take into account how people, in general, think. Example: For ten years, while working on a new Superman movie, WB kept announcing they were most likely going to change the suit. Everything from black leather to razor blades to no cape were on the table. And then, finally, they showed Routh in the Superman Returns suit... and everyone flipped their sh*t saying it wasn't accurate enough! It was 99.9999% exactly the same as ever, and one or two little changes still pissed everyone off!

It's clear you're an "I'm up for anything" kinda guy, sam. Terrific. That's not the general public, who are ostensibly the audience for the film. And that says nothing of the "purists". I'm merely asking you to accept the FACT that the majority of the human population prefer things stay exactly as they are, they prefer "safe" and "familiar", and rebuke even the smallest change. Human nature, guy.

They're trying to rebuild a damaged (film) brand. They don't need to be gettin' all cutesy, they need to play it safe and save all that tinkering for the sequels, once they've already won everyone over. Business Sense + Common Sense = Oodles O' F*ckin Cash.

But i dont think the people freaking out about superman's suit were not the "general public", it was a vocal fans who dislike change. Even in the slightest and that fine they can be that way. Obviously change supermans look isn't a problem seeing as both the new 52 and Superman changed his suit and its great.

As for playing it safe i say again every person who has seen the designs firsthand officially, has had nothing but positive things to say about it and ,many of those people are in fact large fans of the turtle. They have Obviously show these designs to people and it seems the people they have shown it to seem to think its nothing to worry about.

That speaks Volumes

Well, they got people handling it who don't care past a paycheck. It's just a job. They got no soul, brutha. No soul and no funk.
And see i dont see How people can Jump to these conclusions?
Leibesmon is a Fan, Kevin is obviously a fan, Alan is a fan, Even Is a fan, They have producer who have worked on TMNT who have faith in the franchise. It just amazes me That's more fans working on this movie then alot of movies Get.

[Leo656]

Kevin's not entirely working on the movie. His input is the same as Bob Kane's was on Burton's Batman: "Here's the check, now say it's great. You're welcome for us (the studio) giving you more press than you've had in decades, by the way. You created this thing, by all means, speak your mind... just say it's great, is all."

And again, not to get elitist, but... what proof have we that any of these people are "fans" exactly? They maybe watched it as kids? They know the Turtles like pizza? That must've taken them hours of dedicated viewing and research. Or not. I doubt they know jack, frankly. Hazy, half-remembered memories of Saturday morning cartoons, at best, is what I'm betting. Do I know that? No. Is it nonetheless very likely? Yep. These people have been professionally playing make-believe and stuffing their heads with coke for their entire adult lives, they ain't got time for cartoons. Be real. None of 'em have seen that show in years.

And once more, most of those people who've seen the designs first-hand have a vested interest in the movie doing well. What are they supposed to say, exactly? "It looks sh*tty, but trust us, the movie's really great"? Why would they say that? Those Outfits made it into the final product. Sorry, man, that IS something to worry about. The fact nobody vetoed that sh*t on the ground floor is indeed cause for concern.

No offense, but as a Superman fan, the kind who would gladly die right now if I was guaranteed to be reincarnated as Kal-El, Last Son of Krypton in my next life... I'm offended that anyone actually likes that stupid armored gimmick they stuck him in. Again with this "change for the sake of change" garbage. Nah. It was fine before, and it's crummy now. And pointless. Guys who are bulletproof don't need armor. But, gosh, it IS so new and shiny, and those seams, those gorgeous SEAMS everywhere, just totally improve the look. It was way too simple before.

Jes' kiddin', it looks like sh*t. :lol:

[TrickOrTreater]

As for playing it safe i say again every person who has seen the designs firsthand officially, has had nothing but positive things to say about it and ,many of those people are in fact large fans of the turtle. They have Obviously show these designs to people and it seems the people they have shown it to seem to think its nothing to worry about.

That speaks Volumes.

You mean those set visits that movie studios allow film websites to come and check things out?

The ones where movie websites AFTER the set visits have never had anything negative to say ever, EVEN IF the movie turns out to be crap?

THOSE set visits?

Yeah. I don't put a lot of stock in those. Of course they'll say "everything we've seen is awesome." They want to keep doing business with the movie studios.

[Leo656]

Yeah man. After Harry Knowles turned heel on Brett Ratner during the production of the Superman movie back in 2003, saying it was good he got fired as director and claiming Ratner had frequently been calling him for even the most basic Superman advice, Ratner went on a rant about how "hurt" he was, because he had basically soft-soaped Knowles for years expecting him to back his film projects unconditionally. A sample of a quote, from Ratner, circa 1993, as referenced in the book "Superman Vs. Hollywood":

"I flew... [Knowles] and his fat f*cking father to f*cking LA... for the premiere of Money Talks... The first f*cking time Harry Knowles was in LA..."

These people are in bed together, guy. Movie people give "exclusives" and favors to the media, with the condition that they try and slant things as favorably as possible. Don't be naive, sam. These are PR people. Hustlers. it's a con. Don't be a mark.

[samxsteal]

Kevin's not entirely working on the movie. His input is the same as Bob Kane's was on Burton's Batman: "Here's the check, now say it's great. You're welcome for us (the studio) giving you more press than you've had in decades, by the way. You created this thing, by all means, speak your mind... just say it's great, is all."Its been stated he has been worked with closely Once they Added Even to the list of people writing the screen play.

And again, not to get elitist, but... what proof have we that any of these people are "fans" exactly? They maybe watched it as kids? They know the Turtles like pizza? That must've taken them hours of dedicated viewing and research. Or not. I doubt they know jack, frankly. Hazy, half-remembered memories of Saturday morning cartoons, at best, is what I'm betting. Do I know that? No. Is it nonetheless very likely? Yep. These people have been professionally playing make-believe and stuffing their heads with coke for their entire adult lives, they ain't got time for cartoons. Be real. None of 'em have seen that show in years.And how do you know the people at marvel are more fans of their franchise then these guy saying there fans as well??? If they dont have time then No one does. Yea Marc Webb's a complete lair. Keven feige same. I just dont get your logic.

And once more, most of those people who've seen the designs first-hand have a vested interest in the movie doing well. What are they supposed to say, exactly? "It looks sh*tty, but trust us, the movie's really great"? Why would they say that? Those Outfits made it into the final product. Sorry, man, that IS something to worry about. The fact nobody vetoed that sh*t on the ground floor is indeed cause for concern.
How do they Have a Vest interest other then the fact that They were fans who were invited to look at the Behind the scene this does not in any way mean they have to enjoy what they saw. But they did and that what matters and what they feel is something worth not worrying about.


No offense, but as a Superman fan, the kind who would gladly die right now if I was guaranteed to be reincarnated as Kal-El, Last Son of Krypton in my next life... I'm offended that anyone actually likes that stupid armored gimmick they stuck him in. Again with this "change for the sake of change" garbage. Nah. It was fine before, and it's crummy now. And pointless. Guys who are bulletproof don't need armor. But, gosh, it IS so new and shiny, and those seams, those gorgeous SEAMS everywhere, just totally improve the look. It was way too simple before.

Jes' kiddin', it looks like sh*t. :lol:
Seriously??? The new 52 Gives a great Explanation and yes hes Bullet proof on earth not on Krypton. The explanation for why he has the suit and why he wears the suit is awesome. and Gives it meaning to why he wears what he wears. It wasn't change for the sake of Change. Just like giving batman armor wasn't change for the sake of change. or making Wonder woman able to fly. Comic books change, they evolve if it doesn't it gets boring, if they kept telling the exact same stories with out variation then it would just be pointless that why comic books change.

And really i would Go for the new 52 look Over red underwear any day. Do i love the stuff that came before yes i do have i always found it odd that super hero's liked wearing the underwear outside yes even as a kid i thought it was odd.

[TrickOrTreater]

Its been stated he has been worked with closely Once they Added Even to the list of people writing the screen play.

And you bought that?

And how do you know the people at marvel are more fans of their franchise then these guy saying there fans as well??? If they dont have time then No one does. Yea Marc Webb's a complete lair. Keven feige same. I just dont get your logic.

The Spider-Man movies are at Sony, not Marvel Studios.

And we know the "people at Marvel" are fans of the franchises because we've seen the movies.

They're very faithful but updated for modern sensibilities. Like Iron Man. Incredibly faithful adaptation but updated.

I'm not seeing "faithful but updated for modern sensibilities" here. I'm seeing "****** change for the sake of change."

[Technogeek29]

And you bought that?



The Spider-Man movies are at Sony, not Marvel Studios.

And we know the "people at Marvel" are fans of the franchises because we've seen the movies.

They're very faithful but updated for modern sensibilities. Like Iron Man. Incredibly faithful adaptation but updated.

I'm not seeing "faithful but updated for modern sensibilities" here. I'm seeing "****** change for the sake of change."

Thus bringing up my post from a couple pages back. Marvel has embraced its comic book absurdity. DC and other comic movies get it togethor.

[TrickOrTreater]

Thus bringing up my post from a couple pages back. Marvel has embraced its comic book absurdity. DC and other comic movies get it togethor.

See, I think they're on their way with Man of Steel.

I found Nolan's Batman movies to be great Batman movies because there's precedent for a grounded, semi-realistic take on Batman.

Year One, DKR, Long Halloween, etc.

But I also feel, with the Superman/Batman movie, that they're going to up the fantasy ante a bit and that's fine too. I'm a big fan of the more "out there" elements of Batman's universe.

Seeing Batman stand with characters like Superman, Wonder Woman etc and they'll HAVE to do that.

So I think they're going to do some very good things. They got their footing with Man of Steel(which I loved), similar to how Nolan got his footing with Batman Begins and then hit the ball out of the park with TDK, and now it's time for DC and Snyder to hit the ball out of the park with this new direction.

[Leo656]

samxsteal: I'm not shocked that you're fairly tall, because you got a helluva reach, son. :lol:

Its been stated he has been worked with closely Once they Added Even to the list of people writing the screen play.

I know. It's called "Hype". They can and will say Eastman wrote the screenplay even if he didn't do a damn thing. They do it all the time. Mario Puzo's name was on the Superman screenplay in '76 because he wrote the Godfather. He wrote *A* draft of Superman, and almost not one word was used from it in the final film. "Screenplay by Mario Puzo" guaranteed more ticket sales. Tom Mankiewicz really wrote the movie, but nobody knows who he is. But "Oh, man, the guy who wrote 'Godfather' wrote the Superman movie! It's GOTTA be good!" See how it works? And don't tell me it doesn't go that way, you're wrong. I like you. But you're wrong sometimes.

I work on the periphery of the entertainment biz, remember. I'm all too familiar with how "they/we" work you folks. Everything is hype. Everything. Everything you see and hear is what you're allowed to, because it's all about separating people from their cash. Trust in this. I'm guilty of it myself. I sell my gimmicks at a 500% mark-up and make out like gangbusters. I don't tell that to people when I'm working, obviously, why would I? I'm trying to get their cash. I'd tell you this bandanna you're buying from me was ring-worn by Hulk f*cking Hogan if I thought you'd give me a hundred bucks for it. That's called "A Work."

Any lie told to a fan/mark in order to get more money from them is A Work. Saying Kevin Eastman is heavily involved with the TMNT movie is A Work. Believe. They don't "allow" comic book writers to write screenplays, it's a union thing. If anything, he's a consultant, whose opinion is just one of dozens, and his pull is minimal. That's as good as it gets.

And how do you know the people at marvel are more fans of their franchise then these guy saying there fans as well???

Mostly the fact that Marvel started their own in-house movie production company, Marvel Studios, entirely so they could have some quality control over their own franchise characters. That tells me they care a wee bit more about their movies than these work-for-hire clowns at Platinum Dunes.

How do they Have a Vest interest other then the fact that They were fans who were invited to look at the Behind the scene this does not in any way mean they have to enjoy what they saw. But they did and that what matters and what they feel is something worth not worrying about.

As stated above, it's part of the Hustle. Be honest: Let's assume you're a wrestling fan. If I paid your travel to come see a show I wrestled on, let you watch a training seminar, brought you backstage, got you a bunch of autographs and free swag, got on the mic and dedicated my match to you, then brought you to the bar with us after the show and got you drunk and/or laid... wouldn't I then be "Your favorite wrestler ever" to anyone who asked you? Even though I'm not really all that great? C'mon, course that'd be the case, buddy. I'd do all that for the exact reason of knowing you'd be in my corner forever. No way you'd ever be objective towards me again.

It's the same thing with these movie cats, times a million. They flat-out buy movie reviews and prestigious awards all the time, you seriously think they can't hustle some fat nerd from Latino Review? C'mooooon man.

Seriously??? The new 52 Gives a great Explanation and yes hes Bullet proof on earth not on Krypton. The explanation for why he has the suit and why he wears the suit is awesome. and Gives it meaning to why he wears what he wears. It wasn't change for the sake of Change. Just like giving batman armor wasn't change for the sake of change. or making Wonder woman able to fly.

He ain't on Krypton, though, now is he? It absolutely WAS change for change's sake, just like the last dozen times they tried to make it look "more hip". Batman wearing armor makes sense. Superman wears armor with lots of extraneous seams because Jim Lee likes drawing armor with lots of extraneous seams. Storyline reasons come way, way after the fact. "It looks cool to Jim Lee," was the reason it got changed. Nothing else. And you repeatedly saying it's awesome doesn't make it fact.

Bulletproof people don't need armor. They may as well give him a f*cking jet pack because "he can fly on Earth but on Krypton..." and all that. I much prefer, "His Mom made the suit for him, because awwwww." I don't exactly hate the "Kryptonian raiment" angle, but I do hate the new look, itself, and I do hate anything that emphasizes his alien heritage over his humanity.

Not getting into the shorts, that's a hang-up that always says more about the critic than the design. From purely an artistic POV, though, the suit has too much blue now. I could dig out one of my art books on designing comic book characters and quote the multiple assertions from various professional artists that the classic Superman suit was pretty much the Best Costume Ever for a lot of reasons, but I don't feel like it.

Comic books change the evolve if it doesn't it gets boring, if they kept telling the exact same stories with out variation then it would just be pointless that why comic books change.


Except they kind of don't? There's a few stories everyone's familiar with, that get re-told or adapted every few years, but for the most part no grand, sweeping change ever sticks. Because people don't like change. I didn't invent human nature, boss, I just study and comment on it. Comics are about the worst thing you could point to for "change". Yeah, they do... temporarily. Until sales slip, and the status quo comes back, because fans demand it.

Again, I like you, buddy. But some of these straws you grasp at are really more like hairs. No offense. We can still hang out, but I don't know, I think we should still see other people.

[chrisdude]

The Hasbro president (or some higher-up like that) was first to announce that the T4 transformers would have all new robots, because he blamed toy sale stagnation on the three movies having the same characters. Iron Man has had something like 20 suits on screen, they each look different, and you can find them all in the toy section. I have no problem believing that these turtles designs were dictated by the toy people, and that they were obligated to make these turtles look wildly different from the Nick turtles.

But, even considering that, my jaw dropped when I saw the first shot of the turtles maquettes. I never thought, "They're overdoing it," or "They're hitting you over the head with their personalities." I thought, "These look like teenagers who were allowed to dress themselves, and I've never seen that from TMNT." I've liked different turtles designs (2007, is a favorite of mine), but I've never thought, "Dude, these look awesome." I can't wait to see them movie. I hate that so many people don't. That's unfortunate. I just don't see the problem.
See, I think they're on their way with Man of Steel.

I found Nolan's Batman movies to be great Batman movies because there's precedent for a grounded, semi-realistic take on Batman.

Year One, DKR, Long Halloween, etc.

But I also feel, with the Superman/Batman movie, that they're going to up the fantasy ante a bit and that's fine too. I'm a big fan of the more "out there" elements of Batman's universe.

Seeing Batman stand with characters like Superman, Wonder Woman etc and they'll HAVE to do that.

So I think they're going to do some very good things. They got their footing with Man of Steel(which I loved), similar to how Nolan got his footing with Batman Begins and then hit the ball out of the park with TDK, and now it's time for DC and Snyder to hit the ball out of the park with this new direction.I dig the wild Batman elements, too. And I missed them a lot in TDK trilogy. They were great movies, but I'd rather see the fantasy stuff. But they've really grounded Man of Steel. They even made Krypton technology more believable. I'm not expecting to see anything too crazy come out of New Yor- er, "Gotham."

[Leo656]

They're not human beings, didn't exactly grow up living, thinking or acting specifically like human beings, and wouldn't realistically have any compulsion to imitate human behavior by wearing clothes at all?

They're animals. Animals see no need for clothing, even cold-blooded ones like reptiles. Most animals compulsively reject any effort to clothe them. Clothes are a human compulsion created in part for protection from the elements, in part out of shame of the reproductive organs everyone has yet pretends they don't like to look at. Neither of those things would be of any concern, at all, to a group of mutant reptiles living underground in a sewer. Especially since if they have cable TV, they probably have heat somehow, too. And it ain't like they have to "hide their shame" or anything like that.

I mean, I know, that puts us right back at "why the belts, why the masks, why any of it?" I know. "None of it's realistic to begin with." I know. I still feel a minimalist approach works best. The rest is clutter.

What makes people think a group of mutant animals would for any reason conform to human standards of dress is the mystery *I* can't solve. "Just 'Cuz" is all anyone seems to have for me. :ohwell: I'm sorry, I'm not sold on, "They watch TV, they see people wearing clothes, ergo, they would wear clothes." I'm sorry, are they somehow of the impression they are people and should act as such? Because I always thought one of the biggest things in the mythos was how painfully aware they are of how human they are not. Maybe I've been doing it wrong.

Stuff like the bandage wraps and Raph's Hogan bandanna don't bother me as much, it's all that other stuff. Pants? Sunglasses? Proton packs? Armored loincloths? For what purpose, honestly, beyond Toyz? How is Leo ever gonna be a stealthy ninja warrior with all that bamboo stuff clack-clack-clackin' around every time he moves? Seriously.

For me, it's already a wide stretch that a group of turtles growing up in NYC living with a rat from Japan who talks like Mr. Miyagi would grow up to talk and act like Bill and Ted from California in the first place, let alone "dress themselves because teenage human beings wear clothes." And if they *would* wear clothes, I really like to think they'd have better fashion sense than *that*.

I just genuinely, honestly, don't think they'd bother. I honestly think the Turtles, as *I* see them, would find all that crap cumbersome and uncomfortable. It actually makes sense to me that Raph is the least "dressed up" for the new movie, because to me, he'd be the most likely of the four to say, "Clothes? What's the f*cking point of that?"

Again, maybe I've been Ninja Turtling wrong this whole time and my interpretation of them is way off, I'unno.

[TrickOrTreater]

But, even considering that, my jaw dropped when I saw the first shot of the turtles maquettes. I never thought, "They're overdoing it," or "They're hitting you over the head with their personalities." I thought, "These look like teenagers who were allowed to dress themselves, and I've never seen that from TMNT." I've liked different turtles designs (2007, is a favorite of mine), but I've never thought, "Dude, these look awesome." I can't wait to see them movie. I hate that so many people don't. That's unfortunate. I just don't see the problem.

That's exactly what they've done though.

They've looked at their personalities and given them clothes based on that.

Donny's the nerd so he gets the unbelievably cliche and stereotypical taped up black nerd glasses(and this is for when samxsteal sees this, I don't give a **** that he may or may not have used glasses before, there's no reason for them to look like THAT). And he's got what's probably a freaking laser somehow attached to his shell. wat.

Mikey talks like a surfer dude so give him pooka shells and sunglasses and wrap a sweater around his waist!

Leo is the leader of the group so he's going to be very straightlaced and traditional and Samurai-like for...some reason. You know, like every OTHER teenager on the planet.

Raphael is the least offensive in terms of accessories but the bandana thing and the loincloth have got to go.

They all need to get rid of stuff that would get caught or hang while Ninja-ing around, or be easily grabbed while in a fight. There's a reason Ninja are minimalist when it comes to dress.

But no, this isn't a case of the writers being creative and saying "this is what anthropomorphic mutant turtle teenagers would wear!" It's a case of the studio wanting to sell toys. And catering to the lowest common denominator that wouldn't know the difference between which Turtle was which otherwise without gaudy, over the top accessories.

****. That.

[Leo656]

Being honest, I'd be more accepting of them as a "variant" look, like if that stuff was from *a* scene in the movie, or Wave Two of the toys. Not as the MAIN look. And before anyone says "What If..." The fact that everything we've seen is based on those outfits means those outfits are the Main look for the movie. Don't say "maybe they're not, we don't know yet" or I swear I'll smack you. I will find a way.

[TrickOrTreater]

Being honest, I'd be more accepting of them as a "variant" look, like if that stuff was from *a* scene in the movie, or Wave Two of the toys. Not as the MAIN look. And before anyone says "What If..." The fact that everything we've seen is based on those outfits means those outfits are the Main look for the movie. Don't say "maybe they're not, we don't know yet" or I swear I'll smack you. I will find a way.

Oh yeah they'd be interesting as this type of toy line:

http://i.imgur.com/YMFClmf.jpg?1

Fine for the toy line, but I wouldn't want to see "Ultra Blast Batman" or "Batarang Bash Batman" in the movie.

But then again Chris Nolan had a bit more respect and reverence for Batman than Bay/Liebesman do for the Turtles, apparently.

[Leo656]

Diamond Dallas Page circa 1995 just walked by, wearing his sparkly vest, $500 sunglasses, gold chain, diamond ring, his five female Diamond Doll valets and his giant f*cking cigar.

He took one look at the new Turtle designs and said, "GOOD GAWD! Way too much gimmick, brother!" :lol:

((About three people are gonna remember exactly what I'm talking about and think that's hilarious))

[TrickOrTreater]

Diamond Dallas Page circa 1995 just walked by, wearing his sparkly vest, $500 sunglasses, gold chain, diamond ring, his five female Diamond Doll valets and his giant f*cking cigar.

He took one look at the new Turtle designs and said, "GOOD GAWD! Way too much gimmick, brother!" :lol:

((About three people are gonna remember exactly what I'm talking about and think that's hilarious))

I got into it all somewhat a while before "E for Entertainment" era and left after Benoit's death so it's somewhat lost on me, but I do know who DDP is! :lol:

[Leo656]

Well... jokes aren't jokes once explained, but since I can't find a good pic at the moment, in the mid-90s just as he was getting big, DDP was notorious for going way the f*ck overboard with all the "flair". Most guys have A female manager, he'd have six at once. He'd spend more time taking off all his jackets and stuff than having a match. It was hilarious, but it was way too much. No shock he didn't get famous until he scrapped a good 80% of it.

Rumor has it none other than Hulk Hogan insisted he tone it down, stressing "Less Is More." That would be the same Hogan who mix-and-matches tie-dye, lightning bolts, doo-rags and feather boas on a regular basis, by the way. If HE says you're overdoing it, you more than likely are. :lol:

My "joke" was that even DDP would find those TMNT outfits gaudy, as he was the king of Too Much Swag.

[Technogeek29]

Diamond Dallas Page circa 1995 just walked by, wearing his sparkly vest, $500 sunglasses, gold chain, diamond ring, his five female Diamond Doll valets and his giant f*cking cigar.

He took one look at the new Turtle designs and said, "GOOD GAWD! Way too much gimmick, brother!" :lol:

((About three people are gonna remember exactly what I'm talking about and think that's hilarious))

Joke isn't lost here. I still have old torn posters of the stuff he use to wear.

[Leo656]

Attaboy. Please tell me you remember the time he had the waiter at the restaurant serve Dave Sullivan's pet rabbit Ralph when Dave won a date with the Diamond Doll. That'll learn Evad to try and mack on Kimberly, the prick! :lol:

[BubblyShell22]

Diamond Dallas Page circa 1995 just walked by, wearing his sparkly vest, $500 sunglasses, gold chain, diamond ring, his five female Diamond Doll valets and his giant f*cking cigar.

He took one look at the new Turtle designs and said, "GOOD GAWD! Way too much gimmick, brother!" :lol:

((About three people are gonna remember exactly what I'm talking about and think that's hilarious))

I wasn't watching wrestling in '95, but I know what you're talking about. I've got DDP's book, and I've seen what he used to wear. I'm sure he'd hate the designs as much as the rest of us because they are a bit much. I think it would be better if they just had them have the belts, masks, and wraps. If they need disguises, go with the general trench coat and leave it at that.



Well... jokes aren't jokes once explained, but since I can't find a good pic at the moment, in the mid-90s just as he was getting big, DDP was notorious for going way the f*ck overboard with all the "flair". Most guys have A female manager, he'd have six at once. He'd spend more time taking off all his jackets and stuff than having a match. It was hilarious, but it was way too much. No shock he didn't get famous until he scrapped a good 80% of it.

Rumor has it none other than Hulk Hogan insisted he tone it down, stressing "Less Is More." That would be the same Hogan who mix-and-matches tie-dye, lightning bolts, doo-rags and feather boas on a regular basis, by the way. If HE says you're overdoing it, you more than likely are. :lol:

My "joke" was that even DDP would find those TMNT outfits gaudy, as he was the king of Too Much Swag.

Hey, Hogan was right, and look how it paid off. I became a fan of DDP in '97, and been a fan ever since, so it worked for him. I'm also worried about how the personalities of the Turtles are going to be. Are they going to be what we all know, or are they going to be so exaggerated it's going to be annoying as hell to even listen to them? That's another fear I have.


Attaboy. Please tell me you remember the time he had the waiter at the restaurant serve Dave Sullivan's pet rabbit Ralph when Dave won a date with the Diamond Doll. That'll learn Evad to try and mack on Kimberly, the prick! :lol:

I never saw that, but I read about it. I think DDP even said the whole rabbit thing was horrible and probably not one of his best moments. Thing is, I have a feeling Bay and the others won't admit they f*cked up if this thing bombs. They'll still convince people it's good and that they did a good job.

And Leo's right about the whole set thing, Sam. They're not going to diss the movie because if they do that, then they'll get fired. They're pretty much forced to sell the movie instead of being honest and saying that they don't like what they see. As I've said before, I'll see the movie once out of curiosity, but if I don't like it, I'm not getting it on DVD. I was excited to see Inkheart because I read the books and thought it would be really cool. I saw it and hated it because they totally screwed it up so I never bought the DVD.

[samxsteal]

The Hasbro president (or some higher-up like that) was first to announce that the T4 transformers would have all new robots, because he blamed toy sale stagnation on the three movies having the same characters. Iron Man has had something like 20 suits on screen, they each look different, and you can find them all in the toy section. I have no problem believing that these turtles designs were dictated by the toy people, and that they were obligated to make these turtles look wildly different from the Nick turtles.

But, even considering that, my jaw dropped when I saw the first shot of the turtles maquettes. I never thought, "They're overdoing it," or "They're hitting you over the head with their personalities." I thought, "These look like teenagers who were allowed to dress themselves, and I've never seen that from TMNT." I've liked different turtles designs (2007, is a favorite of mine), but I've never thought, "Dude, these look awesome." I can't wait to see them movie. I hate that so many people don't. That's unfortunate. I just don't see the problem.
I dig the wild Batman elements, too. And I missed them a lot in TDK trilogy. They were great movies, but I'd rather see the fantasy stuff. But they've really grounded Man of Steel. They even made Krypton technology more believable. I'm not expecting to see anything too crazy come out of New Yor- er, "Gotham."
I agree I understand Why movies do these things, and especially for movie based mostly off toys line. But i also agree i dont get how people think this is over doing it when we have seen designs much much worse. and really i thought it was just simple design. but I know that people who are upset tend to be much more vocal.

[Leo656]

Get it? Sure. Have to accept or like it? Not a chance.

I'm a grown man. I don't need 40-something-year-old movie and toy company executives telling me what's "Hip" and "Cool" based in turn on what a bunch of 5-year-old kids think is "hip" and "cool".

The worst designs they could have used? No, but that's like saying you'd rather have cancer of the mouth than cancer of the ass. I, personally, would avoid both if I could help it.

[chrisdude]

They're not human beings, didn't exactly grow up living, thinking or acting specifically like human beings, and wouldn't realistically have any compulsion to imitate human behavior by wearing clothes at all?

They're animals. Animals see no need for clothing, even cold-blooded ones like reptiles. Most animals compulsively reject any effort to clothe them. Clothes are a human compulsion created in part for protection from the elements, in part out of shame of the reproductive organs everyone has yet pretends they don't like to look at. Neither of those things would be of any concern, at all, to a group of mutant reptiles living underground in a sewer. Especially since if they have cable TV, they probably have heat somehow, too. And it ain't like they have to "hide their shame" or anything like that.

I mean, I know, that puts us right back at "why the belts, why the masks, why any of it?" I know. "None of it's realistic to begin with." I know. I still feel a minimalist approach works best. The rest is clutter.

What makes people think a group of mutant animals would for any reason conform to human standards of dress is the mystery *I* can't solve. "Just 'Cuz" is all anyone seems to have for me. :ohwell: I'm sorry, I'm not sold on, "They watch TV, they see people wearing clothes, ergo, they would wear clothes." I'm sorry, are they somehow of the impression they are people and should act as such? Because I always thought one of the biggest things in the mythos was how painfully aware they are of how human they are not. Maybe I've been doing it wrong.

Stuff like the bandage wraps and Raph's Hogan bandanna don't bother me as much, it's all that other stuff. Pants? Sunglasses? Proton packs? Armored loincloths? For what purpose, honestly, beyond Toyz? How is Leo ever gonna be a stealthy ninja warrior with all that bamboo stuff clack-clack-clackin' around every time he moves? Seriously.

For me, it's already a wide stretch that a group of turtles growing up in NYC living with a rat from Japan who talks like Mr. Miyagi would grow up to talk and act like Bill and Ted from California in the first place, let alone "dress themselves because teenage human beings wear clothes." And if they *would* wear clothes, I really like to think they'd have better fashion sense than *that*.

I just genuinely, honestly, don't think they'd bother. I honestly think the Turtles, as *I* see them, would find all that crap cumbersome and uncomfortable. It actually makes sense to me that Raph is the least "dressed up" for the new movie, because to me, he'd be the most likely of the four to say, "Clothes? What's the f*cking point of that?"

Again, maybe I've been Ninja Turtling wrong this whole time and my interpretation of them is way off, I'unno.I disagree, entirely. They can swim for a long time, sometimes they can retract into their shells, and Nick came up with that "worms and algae" thing. But other than that, everything about the turtles and the way they live is human. They read, they watch TV, they live in a human home, with human furnishings. They study human martial arts and speak a human language. I see them as American teenagers, through and through. All things considered, I really think wearing clothes makes more sense than not. The only reason I can think of for them to be naked is that they've always been portrayed that way. I'm just left wondering, "Why not shirts, too?"

That's exactly what they've done though.

They've looked at their personalities and given them clothes based on that.

Donny's the nerd so he gets the unbelievably cliche and stereotypical taped up black nerd glasses(and this is for when samxsteal sees this, I don't give a **** that he may or may not have used glasses before, there's no reason for them to look like THAT). And he's got what's probably a freaking laser somehow attached to his shell. wat.

Mikey talks like a surfer dude so give him pooka shells and sunglasses and wrap a sweater around his waist!

Leo is the leader of the group so he's going to be very straightlaced and traditional and Samurai-like for...some reason. You know, like every OTHER teenager on the planet.

Raphael is the least offensive in terms of accessories but the bandana thing and the loincloth have got to go.

They all need to get rid of stuff that would get caught or hang while Ninja-ing around, or be easily grabbed while in a fight. There's a reason Ninja are minimalist when it comes to dress.

But no, this isn't a case of the writers being creative and saying "this is what anthropomorphic mutant turtle teenagers would wear!" It's a case of the studio wanting to sell toys. And catering to the lowest common denominator that wouldn't know the difference between which Turtle was which otherwise without gaudy, over the top accessories.

****. That.In a world where the turtles wear clothes, I don't see the outfits as unusual. The outfits suit the personalities, which are extremes. Donnie builds blimps and hi-tech gadgets. That's extremely stereotypical for his personality. So is Raph riding a motorcycle, and Mikey delivering pizza to save money for a surfboard. So, it didn't strike me as, "Whoa, this is too much," but as the turtles freely expressing themselves.

[Leo656]

I'unno man. Gonna have to agree to disagree, I guess. I've always read and seen them, especially Raphael, expressly state that they're NOT human, to the point of occasionally not even wanting anything to do with humans or their world, at times. Mostly in Mirage books, granted, but still.

They are human-LIKE, but to me I don't think they'd in any way share human hang-ups about needing to cover their junk. I'unno. We're clearly at very opposite ends, on this one. I just find it questionable. To borrow a quote from Konnan, "That don't make logic," to me. ((Shrug))

To me, the fact that even after gaining heightened sentience, they would *still* have predominantly reptilian brains, genes, and instincts trumps any learned human-like social behavior. That's how I've always looked at it. It's not like they switched brains with human beings or anything, they just gained higher brain functions. I truly don't see where they'd suddenly desire pants. Because they saw it on TV? I'm not sold. :ohwell:

[samxsteal]

They're not human beings, didn't exactly grow up living, thinking or acting specifically like human beings, and wouldn't realistically have any compulsion to imitate human behavior by wearing clothes at all?

They're animals. Animals see no need for clothing, even cold-blooded ones like reptiles. Most animals compulsively reject any effort to clothe them. Clothes are a human compulsion created in part for protection from the elements, in part out of shame of the reproductive organs everyone has yet pretends they don't like to look at. Neither of those things would be of any concern, at all, to a group of mutant reptiles living underground in a sewer. Especially since if they have cable TV, they probably have heat somehow, too. And it ain't like they have to "hide their shame" or anything like that.

I mean, I know, that puts us right back at "why the belts, why the masks, why any of it?" I know. "None of it's realistic to begin with." I know. I still feel a minimalist approach works best. The rest is clutter.

What makes people think a group of mutant animals would for any reason conform to human standards of dress is the mystery *I* can't solve. "Just 'Cuz" is all anyone seems to have for me. :ohwell: I'm sorry, I'm not sold on, "They watch TV, they see people wearing clothes, ergo, they would wear clothes." I'm sorry, are they somehow of the impression they are people and should act as such? Because I always thought one of the biggest things in the mythos was how painfully aware they are of how human they are not. Maybe I've been doing it wrong.

Stuff like the bandage wraps and Raph's Hogan bandanna don't bother me as much, it's all that other stuff. Pants? Sunglasses? Proton packs? Armored loincloths? For what purpose, honestly, beyond Toyz? How is Leo ever gonna be a stealthy ninja warrior with all that bamboo stuff clack-clack-clackin' around every time he moves? Seriously.

For me, it's already a wide stretch that a group of turtles growing up in NYC living with a rat from Japan who talks like Mr. Miyagi would grow up to talk and act like Bill and Ted from California in the first place, let alone "dress themselves because teenage human beings wear clothes." And if they *would* wear clothes, I really like to think they'd have better fashion sense than *that*.

I just genuinely, honestly, don't think they'd bother. I honestly think the Turtles, as *I* see them, would find all that crap cumbersome and uncomfortable. It actually makes sense to me that Raph is the least "dressed up" for the new movie, because to me, he'd be the most likely of the four to say, "Clothes? What's the f*cking point of that?"

Again, maybe I've been Ninja Turtling wrong this whole time and my interpretation of them is way off, I'unno.

mk So
Baxter Stockman
Attila the Frog
Rasputin the Mad Frog
Genghis Frog
Napoleon Bonafrog
Bebop
Rocksteady
Merdude
Perri Grey
Manmoth
Scrag
Leatherhead
Old Hob
Chris Bradford
Splinter
Halfcourt
Hot Spot
street sharks
Dreadmon
Jagwar
Mondo Gecko
Wingnut
Screwloose
Miyamoto Usagi
Ninjara
Stone Protectors
Extreme Dinosaurs
the cheetahmen
Biker Mice from Mars
A bunch of the characters from battle toads
Killer croc
Doc Conners

All don't need to wear clothes either??? mk got it

[Leo656]

A decent number of those characters were human beings first, guy. Like, a good 2/3s or so, roughly. And keep in mind the issues of censorship. Of course Cheetah's gonna have her nipples covered, it's a comic book. And again, just to dwell on that example, Cheetah was human first, and further, she actually did have a fairly long run in the comics (I want to say mid-late 1990s) where she was "nude" and just drawn without nipples or visible gentialia. Also, she gets her powers from some sort of cheetah goddess of fertility and is kind of a slut. Would she wear clothes, ever, at all, realistically, if parents who read the comic didn't pitch a fit? NO, probably (definitely) not. It's not to her character.

Like, legitimately. First, Cheetah had a costume, when she was a regular human. When she became feral, they made her naked "because it was more realistic" that way, since she was now technically more animal than human. They only ever changed it back and gave her a costume once a few prudes complained, and even then, her character has at times vocally opposed the idea of wearing clothing. So... yeah?

If it were real-life, which is what I'm basing my opinion on, animals wouldn't evolve into wanting to wear clothing just because they suddenly walk on two legs or could speak. They only do in fiction for reasons of "I as a reader/viewer don't need to see their junk", NOT because they'd actually have some compulsion to do so.

The turtles don't have that problem, as you can't see their "naughty bits", thus they'd feel no need to cover them. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. No offense, but again... Really flimsy argument, sam. Mostly, again, because a ton of those characters you listed were people who turned into animals, and I'm talking about the exact reverse of that.

[slingtheory]

I disagree, entirely. They can swim for a long time, sometimes they can retract into their shells, and Nick came up with that "worms and algae" thing. But other than that, everything about the turtles and the way they live is human. They read, they watch TV, they live in a human home, with human furnishings. They study human martial arts and speak a human language. I see them as American teenagers, through and through. All things considered, I really think wearing clothes makes more sense than not. The only reason I can think of for them to be naked is that they've always been portrayed that way. I'm just left wondering, "Why not shirts, too?"

In a world where the turtles wear clothes, I don't see the outfits as unusual. The outfits suit the personalities, which are extremes. Donnie builds blimps and hi-tech gadgets. That's extremely stereotypical for his personality. So is Raph riding a motorcycle, and Mikey delivering pizza to save money for a surfboard. So, it didn't strike me as, "Whoa, this is too much," but as the turtles freely expressing themselves. the problem for me is that yes the turtles are teenagers but they're warriors first and foremost. i would think amy need to creativly express themselves would take a backseat to getting the job done amd staying alive. Ninjas are supposed to move swiftly and silently. Having a bunch of loose bits that could potentially trip you up or get caught up on things would be more trouble then its worth. Leo you would expect would know its not a good idea to have a pointless bamboo chest piece rattling around while trying to be stealthy. Especially because it would be useless in a fight anyway. I dunno i think i would be more on board with the outfits if they were more thought out. Maybe more practical.. As it is now it just looks to much like a half baked attempt to update some thing that didn't need an update. I imagine if they showed up to train in the gear they have now splinter would give them some ancient proverb about less being more.

[samxsteal]

the problem for me is that yes the turtles are teenagers but they're warriors first and foremost. i would think amy need to creativly express themselves would take a backseat to getting the job done amd staying alive. Ninjas are supposed to move swiftly and silently. Having a bunch of loose bits that could potentially trip you up or get caught up on things would be more trouble then its worth. Leo you would expect would know its not a good idea to have a pointless bamboo chest piece rattling around while trying to be stealthy. Especially because it would be useless in a fight anyway. I dunno i think i would be more on board with the outfits if they were more thought out. Maybe more practical.. As it is now it just looks to much like a half baked attempt to update some thing that didn't need an update. I imagine if they showed up to train in the gear they have now splinter would give them some ancient proverb about less being more.

I kind of think you ar over thinking the whole noise and stealth Yes Full realistically it might make noise but if they dont add sound effect to it then it wont matter and i seriously doubt you will be sitting there watching it seeing the action and be thing "hey his chop stick armor isn't making noise.... GGRRRRRRRR that makes no sense." same goes for what you might then is loose hang stuff It wont matter if they dont animate it in a way the has it catch or trip them up Its like how people make sun of super heroes who wear capes the Incredibles

[Leo656]

slingtheory: Good call, buddy.

Come on, Leonardo, that bamboo armor isn't doing anything! It's absolutely not going to provide more protection than your f*cking SHELL does, so what, exactly, is the POINT?! :roll:

Every single thread about the movie has officially become, "This is why the Turtles wearing clothes sucks/is awesome." F*ck. The fact this is such a heated debate amongst fans at all proves they really shouldn't have f*cking bothered. If half the crowd likes something and half the crowd hates it, you failed. No, you can't please everyone, but you're obligated to at least pretend to try.

Any choice you make *knowing* it's going to alienate a chunk of the fanbase is a bad choice. Period. Are we trying to make a billion dollar movie, or are we playing f*cking games?

sam: So, "It's all fake so who gives a sh*t." Gotcha, we don't need anything resembling realism or verisimilitude at all, even at the most basic level of logic. Anyone who says otherwise is a grouch who over-thinks things. Alrighty.

[samxsteal]

A decent number of those characters were human beings first, guy. Like, a good 2/3s or so, roughly. And keep in mind the issues of censorship. Of course Cheetah's gonna have her nipples covered, it's a comic book. And again, just to dwell on that example, Cheetah was human first, and further, she actually did have a fairly long run in the comics (I want to say mid-late 1990s) where she was "nude" and just drawn without nipples or visible gentialia. Also, she gets her powers from some sort of cheetah goddess of fertility and is kind of a slut. Would she wear clothes, ever, at all, realistically, if parents who read the comic didn't pitch a fit? NO, probably (definitely) not. It's not to her character.

Like, legitimately. First, Cheetah had a costume, when she was a regular human. When she became feral, they made her naked "because it was more realistic" that way, since she was now technically more animal than human. They only ever changed it back and gave her a costume once a few prudes complained, and even then, her character has at times vocally opposed the idea of wearing clothing. So... yeah?

If it were real-life, which is what I'm basing my opinion on, animals wouldn't evolve into wanting to wear clothing just because they suddenly walk on two legs or could speak. They only do in fiction for reasons of "I as a reader/viewer don't need to see their junk", NOT because they'd actually have some compulsion to do so.

The turtles don't have that problem, as you can't see their "naughty bits", thus they'd feel no need to cover them. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. No offense, but again... Really flimsy argument, sam. Mostly, again, because a ton of those characters you listed were people who turned into animals, and I'm talking about the exact reverse of that.
Im saying that within we have Multiple Animal mutants who are in the TMNT universe who wear Cloths EI two main mutants, Splinter, and Old hob being the two main ones who were animal first. Why do they wear clothes and turtle don't is just weird??? that makes no sense to be. that its and Issue, And really its not an issue people have said time and time again they are ok with clothed turtles but this one is Miraculously to over the top when ones they prefer over these designs are nearly identical in the amount they wears. to me it just seems they dislike these for the sake of disliking these ones. I'm not necessarily talking about you but other it just seems kind of hypocritical to hate on these yet being fine with other designs that are very similar

[Leo656]

I'm OK with it sometimes, when there's a reason for it beyond selling action figures and the clothes they wear aren't ugly and nonsensical. Fair enough?

People trying to argue, "The Turtles would have a compulsion to wear clothes because they think they're people", I don't agree with, because they're not people and they know that. I simply don't agree that their "default" would be to wear clothes.

And again, IF they did, they'd know better than to cover themselves in THAT trash.

Donatello with a f*cking proton pack. I have officially seen enough to say I have seen too much.

[electric_sheep]

I don't believe that anyone who has a good taste in movies or a functional brain can say with a straight face that there was anything good in that script, it baffles the mind.
it's ****ing abysmally bad, it's an abomination...

[Leo656]

I'll say that I'd be keen to see Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, and Casey in a movie that wasn't entirely f*cktarded.

[samxsteal]

slingtheory: Good call, buddy.

Come on, Leonardo, that bamboo armor isn't doing anything! It's absolutely not going to provide more protection than your f*cking SHELL does, so what, exactly, is the POINT?! :roll:

Every single thread about the movie has officially become, "This is why the Turtles wearing clothes sucks/is awesome." F*ck. The fact this is such a heated debate amongst fans at all proves they really shouldn't have f*cking bothered. If half the crowd likes something and half the crowd hates it, you failed. No, you can't please everyone, but you're obligated to at least pretend to try.

Any choice you make *knowing* it's going to alienate a chunk of the fanbase is a bad choice. Period. Are we trying to make a billion dollar movie, or are we playing f*cking games?

sam: So, "It's all fake so who gives a sh*t." Gotcha, we don't need anything resembling realism or verisimilitude at all, even at the most basic level of logic. Alrighty.
You realize this is Enveitable for ANYTHING dude you cant please everyone if they look exactly like there 1990 with update look people would complain people complain its in there nature.

People complain about Marvel movies all the time Even the good stuff.
Spider
Batman
Superman
Thor
Captain America
Ironman
X-men
ANy movie
people bitch and complain so are every change they made in those movie not worth doing because.

"The fact this is such a heated debate amongst fans at all proves they really shouldn't have f*cking bothered. "

if that is the case they shouldn't have man ANY of these movie cuz why risk it????


Im not saying its all fake it doesn't matter

Thought is They're wearing it because there teens, teens express them selves. And if there just reptilians and shouldn't have human aspect then. They wouldn't live together in a family group, they wouldn't fight people, they wouldn't be ninja turtles. Its Obvious they have huge Human tendencies.

The fact that such a stupid little thing like OMG bambo would make noise is so stupid it wouldn't matter if they just didn't add sound fx then it just becomes a look and thats it.

"Why give stryder a long red scarf?" "That just stupid take it away because it would get caught on things." "Any super hero with a cape too because that just stupid." Why give superman a cape if he doesn't need it for anything other then COLOR as you put earlier then WHY.

[electric_sheep]

I'll say that I'd be keen to see Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, and Casey in a movie that wasn't entirely f*cktarded.

but that's that is the thing to lure you in, it's like covering a **** with chocolate, it will look nice but once you take a bite you will know that it's ****. Though there are people who will eat the whole **** because there's that chocolate on top. Yeah metaphor bitch!

[Leo656]

F*ck, you people type fast.

sam: I'm going to flat-out say, I think you're entirely wrong. I don't think one person, except maybe you yourself, would have complained if the Turtles were portrayed more or less the same way, visually, that they always have been. For four movies, three cartoon shows, and countless comics, they've been shown with the most minimal changes possible.

I honestly do not ever recall one person ever saying they would PREFER a dramatic shake-up of the look. Accept it, go along with it, learn to like it, those things I've heard. I have never heard ANY one say, "I really hope that in the next movie, Raph looks like The Lizard and Donnie cosplays as a Ghostbuster."

Nobody has ever outright *Wished* for a change in look, thus, if we HAD just gotten the same ol' thang again for the movie, I highly doubt anyone would have complained. They never have before, for 30 years, over countless adaptations, so that would be a first.

"Man, I really hate what I'm used to, I wish they'd f*ck it up." Nobody says that, come on.

sheep: I hear ya, but I think there's a way to make a good TMNT movie with Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, etc. Definitely not THAT movie, the one they almost made (and, most likely, DID make at least some of. Huge chunks of that script HAD to have made it into the actual movie, because they did not have time to start from scratch. We'll see how much was kept). But someday I think we'll see it, and it might be Not Awful.

[chrisdude]

the problem for me is that yes the turtles are teenagers but they're warriors first and foremost. i would think amy need to creativly express themselves would take a backseat to getting the job done amd staying alive. Ninjas are supposed to move swiftly and silently. Having a bunch of loose bits that could potentially trip you up or get caught up on things would be more trouble then its worth. Leo you would expect would know its not a good idea to have a pointless bamboo chest piece rattling around while trying to be stealthy. Especially because it would be useless in a fight anyway. I dunno i think i would be more on board with the outfits if they were more thought out. Maybe more practical.. As it is now it just looks to much like a half baked attempt to update some thing that didn't need an update. I imagine if they showed up to train in the gear they have now splinter would give them some ancient proverb about less being more.I think that's fair, if you consider the turtles "warriors first," and not teenagers who are ninjas.

slingtheory: Good call, buddy.

Come on, Leonardo, that bamboo armor isn't doing anything! It's absolutely not going to provide more protection than your f*cking SHELL does, so what, exactly, is the POINT?! :roll:

Every single thread about the movie has officially become, "This is why the Turtles wearing clothes sucks/is awesome." F*ck. The fact this is such a heated debate amongst fans at all proves they really shouldn't have f*cking bothered. If half the crowd likes something and half the crowd hates it, you failed. No, you can't please everyone, but you're obligated to at least pretend to try.

Any choice you make *knowing* it's going to alienate a chunk of the fanbase is a bad choice. Period. Are we trying to make a billion dollar movie, or are we playing f*cking games?

sam: So, "It's all fake so who gives a sh*t." Gotcha, we don't need anything resembling realism or verisimilitude at all, even at the most basic level of logic. Anyone who says otherwise is a grouch who over-thinks things. Alrighty.This is also probably the most critical, change-averse concentration of TMNT fans on the web. You probably couldn't find a place where more people would hate any given change. 100% guaranteed, the rest of the world cares a lot less than we do. Half here is probably a win.

[Leo656]

Nobody ever won me over with that logic either, pal. I'd say people who actually, actively pay attention to and care about a property are "more sophisticated", rather than "change-averse", "old-fashioned", or any other label people get slapped with when they don't think everything is Spiffy.

We know and care about the property more than the "general public", obviously we're going to care more - and bitch more - than people who watched a cartoon show 20 years ago and may now go see a movie loosely based on their half-remembered childhood memories. I'm supposed to care what people who can't even name the Turtles think about the new look? Why? They have a right to an opinion, sure, but if it's an opinion based on more or less nothing, why should I care? They don't know what they're talking about.

And for what it's worth, the "general public" that made Justin Bieber a millionaire and kept "American Idol" on the air for more than a single week isn't my barometer for "Quality". F*ck what they think, frankly. They like what they're told to like, and my entire motivation for existing is, "I'm not one of those people." So sue me.

[Technogeek29]

mk So
Baxter Stockman
Attila the Frog
Rasputin the Mad Frog
Genghis Frog
Napoleon Bonafrog
Bebop
Rocksteady
Merdude
Perri Grey
Manmoth
Scrag
Leatherhead
Old Hob
Chris Bradford
Splinter
Halfcourt
Hot Spot
street sharks
Dreadmon
Jagwar
Mondo Gecko
Wingnut
Screwloose
Miyamoto Usagi
Ninjara
Stone Protectors
Extreme Dinosaurs
the cheetahmen
Biker Mice from Mars
A bunch of the characters from battle toads
Killer croc
Doc Conners

All don't need to wear clothes either??? mk got it

If your point was to use TMNT characters to make your point? You've failed by picking a lot of these people. Bebop and Rocksteady are humans originally so of course they wear clothes, whether they need to or not is another story I don't care to get into.

Leatherhead in TMNT Adventures is a human from the bayou so again a mute point. Ninjara is a race of humanoid foxes who want to kill all humans so other then censors not allowing it I wouldn't use her either.

Usagi isn't even TMNT and for that matter comes from a place we're animals are all humanoid to begin with, so of course he would wear human clothes. That doesn't translate for the Turtles who were animals at first.

Baxter again a human, Street Sharks not TMNT and again humans. Biker Mice from Mars? Are aliens and you should question why they ride bikes or wear human clothing to begin with?

[Leo656]

^^'Zactly, it's not a blanket, one-argument-fits-all situation. Story context plays a role. I don't think the Turtles' circumstances would make clothing something they'd require or care about or think they need.

Other fictional universes can be an entirely different ballgame. In this circumstance I don't think it makes much sense.

Glad someone else gets my meaning.

[Bry]

All things considered, I really think wearing clothes makes more sense than not. The only reason I can think of for them to be naked is that they've always been portrayed that way. I'm just left wondering, "Why not shirts, too?"

Because it takes away from their visible turtle-ness and clutters up an instantly-recognizable, iconic design. When you think "Ninja Turtle", a specific concept comes instantly to mind. Nearly everyone is familiar with that concept. Severely altering or adding extra, unnecessary elements to that concept just strikes me as counterproductive from a marketing/branding perspective.

I mean, if we're talking about changing a character's design to "add personality" or "try something new" or whatever? There are a lot of characters one could make a similar argument for. But would you want to see a Spider-Man movie where he's dressed like this?

http://s27.postimg.org/juo95vmw3/scooterspiderman.jpg

[Leo656]

F*cking sexy.

[chrisdude]

Nobody ever won me over with that logic either, pal. I'd say people who actually, actively pay attention to and care about a property are "more sophisticated", rather than "change-averse", "old-fashioned", or any other label people get slapped with when they don't think everything is Spiffy.

We know and care about the property more than the "general public", obviously we're going to care more - and bitch more - than people who watched a cartoon show 20 years ago and may now go see a movie loosely based on their half-remembered childhood memories. I'm supposed to care what people who can't even name the Turtles think about the new look? Why? They have a right to an opinion, sure, but if it's an opinion based on more or less nothing, why should I care? They don't know what they're talking about.

And for what it's worth, the "general public" that made Justin Bieber a millionaire and kept "American Idol" on the air for more than a single week isn't my barometer for "Quality". F*ck what they think, frankly. They like what they're told to like, and my entire motivation for existing is, "I'm not one of those people." So sue me.I didn't mean any offense. I wasn't trying to put down the technodrome. Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I'm was just saying that if you were making a new TMNT, and you wanted to present a change to the crowd that would give you the worst reception, you would bring it right here. I did that "Good or Bad" poll about the designs, and it stayed even. This is the place that poll would get the get worst results.

You were saying that if the issue is this divisive, they shouldn't even have tried it. You talked about people being alienated, and how to make a billion dollar movie, so yeah, I noted that we're just a part of the market, and the "general public" is more important.

I'm sure there was a Transformers fan forum where people where tearing their hair out over the prospect of Bumblebee not being a Beetle, Megatron not being a gun, or Optimus having flames. Change for the sake of change, right? And how practical is choosing a box truck with a hotrod paint job as your disguise? But if some of the hardcore fans hate it, but the general public says, "Cool. This looks pretty badass," that's a win.

[TigerClaw]

I didn't mean any offense. I wasn't trying to put down the technodrome. Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I'm was just saying that if you were making a new TMNT, and you wanted to present a change to the crowd that would give you the worst reception, you would bring it right here. I did that "Good or Bad" poll about the designs, and it stayed even. This is the place that poll would get the get worst results.

You were saying that if the issue is this divisive, they shouldn't even have tried it. You talked about people being alienated, and how to make a billion dollar movie, so yeah, I noted that we're just a part of the market, and the "general public" is more important.

I'm sure there was a Transformers fan forum where people where tearing their hair out over the prospect of Bumblebee not being a Beetle, Megatron not being a gun, or Optimus having flames. Change for the sake of change, right? And how practical is choosing a box truck with a hotrod paint job as your disguise? But if some of the hardcore fans hate it, but the general public says, "Cool. This looks pretty badass," that's a win.
Those changes were done to make it relevant for modern day. They couldn't make the Transformers like they looked in the 80s, Because it would be too cheesy and today's audience wouldn't buy it.

[samxsteal]

Because it takes away from their visible turtle-ness and clutters up an instantly-recognizable, iconic design. When you think "Ninja Turtle", a specific concept comes instantly to mind. Nearly everyone is familiar with that concept. Severely altering or adding extra, unnecessary elements to that concept just strikes me as counterproductive from a marketing/branding perspective.

I mean, if we're talking about changing a character's design to "add personality" or "try something new" or whatever? There are a lot of characters one could make a similar argument for. But would you want to see a Spider-Man movie where he's dressed like this?

http://s27.postimg.org/juo95vmw3/scooterspiderman.jpg

That completely Different though The amazing spider man Custom created his Suit in the movie and I personally Loved the new costume. Got the hoody with the mask hood love it Also to the Twizzlers poster of spider-man as well Also have two Man of steel Movie canvases as well.

Hes wearing the suit to hide is Identity as peter parker. The turtles are completely different case They are essentially naked for intents and purposes. and if they even had and inkling of humanity in then its in human nature to cover up regardless of whether or not something is showing. SPlinter has Always worn Clothes whether his human form or his rat form, old hodd wears clothing as well. Leather head in the 2k3 an other version wheres clothing muliple mutants withing the turtles universe wear clothing. So the turtle wearing clothing isn't an issue why would it be

Many of the people who are against the new design say they are not apposed to them wearing cloths, And it is how its done, that matters, so i ask. Where is the line drawn? when is clothing to much?

[Candy Kappa]

mk So
Baxter Stockman
Attila the Frog
Rasputin the Mad Frog
Genghis Frog
Napoleon Bonafrog
Bebop
Rocksteady
Merdude
Perri Grey
Manmoth
Scrag
Leatherhead
Old Hob
Chris Bradford
Splinter
Halfcourt
Hot Spot
street sharks
Dreadmon
Jagwar
Mondo Gecko
Wingnut
Screwloose
Miyamoto Usagi
Ninjara
Stone Protectors
Extreme Dinosaurs
the cheetahmen
Biker Mice from Mars
A bunch of the characters from battle toads
Killer croc
Doc Conners

All don't need to wear clothes either??? mk got it

Baxter Stockman was human before he mutated.

The Frogs was dressed up by Shredder as soon as they mutated.

Bebop & Rocksteady was human.

Merdude was in Archie a human, and a Atlantian in FW.

Perri Grey was human as well, something you should know bringing this one-shot character up.

Scrag, also a human, he even have the clothes on before he mutates.

Leatherhead was human in Archie.

Chris Bradford, human.

The Street Sharks where also humans, revealed in the very opening of the show.

Dreadmon was human, and isn't even a mutant.

Jagwar, son of a Jaguar spirit.

Mondo Gecko was human in Archie.

Wingnut & Screwloose are aliens, not mutants.

Usagi is not a mutant, but comes from a world where animals lives like humans.

Ninjara, a member of a humanoid fox race so not a mutant.

The Biker Mice are aliens from mars.

The Battletoads we're humans in the cartoon, and in the games I think they only where cartoon animals.

Killer Croc is a human with a severe disease.

Doctor Curt Connors is also originally a human, usually stay human unless emotionally provoked.

[samxsteal]

I didn't mean any offense. I wasn't trying to put down the technodrome. Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I'm was just saying that if you were making a new TMNT, and you wanted to present a change to the crowd that would give you the worst reception, you would bring it right here. I did that "Good or Bad" poll about the designs, and it stayed even. This is the place that poll would get the get worst results.

You were saying that if the issue is this divisive, they shouldn't even have tried it. You talked about people being alienated, and how to make a billion dollar movie, so yeah, I noted that we're just a part of the market, and the "general public" is more important.

I'm sure there was a Transformers fan forum where people where tearing their hair out over the prospect of Bumblebee not being a Beetle, Megatron not being a gun, or Optimus having flames. Change for the sake of change, right? And how practical is choosing a box truck with a hotrod paint job as your disguise? But if some of the hardcore fans hate it, but the general public says, "Cool. This looks pretty badass," that's a win.I totally agree and that Fact was that people definitely did do that and it didn't matter.

Those changes were done to make it relevant for modern day. They couldn't make the Transformers like they looked in the 80s, Because it would be too cheesy and today's audience wouldn't buy it.And to a point i think that this Movie is going to the same thing.

I mean the Show going on before and during the movies release had a more classic look the there alt modes Bumble talked was a beetle(looking) So kid were accustomed to how they originally looked and yet when the movie came out the kids weren't confused just entertained.

[Candy Kappa]

Those changes were done to make it relevant for modern day. They couldn't make the Transformers like they looked in the 80s, Because it would be too cheesy and today's audience wouldn't buy it.

Personally I'd be down for a closer approach to the 80's designs over the abyssal movie designs.

War for Cybertron managed to translate the designs to something less "cheesy".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/War_for_Cybertron.jpg

[samxsteal]

Baxter Stockman was human before he mutated.

The Frogs was dressed up by Shredder as soon as they mutated.

Bebop & Rocksteady was human.

Merdude was in Archie a human, and a Atlantian in FW.

Perri Grey was human as well, something you should know bringing this one-shot character up.

Scrag, also a human, he even have the clothes on before he mutates.

Leatherhead was human in Archie.

Chris Bradford, human.

The Street Sharks where also humans, revealed in the very opening of the show.

Dreadmon was human, and isn't even a mutant.

Jagwar, son of a Jaguar spirit.

Mondo Gecko was human in Archie.

Wingnut & Screwloose are aliens, not mutants.

Usagi is not a mutant, but comes from a world where animals lives like humans.

Ninjara, a member of a humanoid fox race so not a mutant.

The Biker Mice are aliens from mars.

The Battletoads we're humans in the cartoon, and in the games I think they only where cartoon animals.

Killer Croc is a human with a severe disease.

Doctor Curt Connors is also originally a human, usually stay human unless emotionally provoked.

IM not arguing they were not humans before hand im arguing that they are animal mutants that wear clothing and all of them are that's the point and if they are now animals mutant why wear clothes?????? they should feel the need to just like there Turtle would obviously not need to feel the need to wear cloths. Point is there are character who are both human and animal in origin that both wear and dont wear cloths. If one wears cloths and other dont why?

If one wears cloth why cant the others. Because they just never have before?? that seems kind of like a stupid reasoning.

[Sumac]

I'm supposed to care what people who can't even name the Turtles think about the new look? Why? They have a right to an opinion, sure, but if it's an opinion based on more or less nothing, why should I care? They don't know what they're talking about.
The thing is - producers will look at what people who bring money think, i.e. general public. No matter, how basic their knowledge of TMNT is, they are the ones who will decide, if this movie will fail or succeed. No amount of fan rage and disgust will be able to change it. And, strangely enough, negative reviews either will not be able change anything if movie is profitable.

[Leo656]

Aaaand that's the problem. Making creative decisions based on what basically ignorant people would get excited over. Not "Ignorant" as in "stupid", ignorant as in, "they don't have as much exposure, experience, and passion for the property being adapted, thus, they probably would just nod and smile at anything you gave them and say, 'Yay, Turtles!'"

"I used to love TMNT when I was 6! I remember that one, Whatsisname, was into machines, woah, now he's got tech gear all over him! Wow, that's bad-ass! I hope he has a laser!" It makes no sense to me why they build movies around THOSE people. They'll buy a ticket ONE time. And again, if you meddle too much, you risk all the loyalists, the "purists" - the possible 3-or-4 trips to the theater fans, who you really don't want to alienate - only buying one ticket instead, as well, and others just saying No altogether.

Once more... nobody was flat-out asking or begging for a change, and the brand-new franchise-builder isn't a good place to try it, especially not designs that bad. The sequel, once you already convinced people to believe in your universe? THAT's where you take risks and get "creative", once they already trust you.

Not NOW. You don't do stupid, divisive, audience-fracturing stuff like this NOW, for crying out loud. Yeesh.

[samxsteal]

Not NOW. You don't do stupid, divisive, audience-fracturing stuff like this NOW, for crying out loud. Yeesh.

Honestyly though there are people that think that any thing done within the last decade was a bad decisions similar the the one done to tmnt

Some are correct in their concerns over all, some aren't. The problem is you can't please everyone. You just can't there is no possible way to appease the entire fan base.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. Look what I've missed. Sam, I understand where you're coming from, but the reason that the Turtles shouldn't wear clothes is because they never have before. What's the point in it? If it's for going to the surface to disguise themselves, then those are pretty poor choices for disguises as they don't really camouflage them and conceal them. Leo's bamboo thing is illogical and definitely NOT ninja-esque. He'd make all sorts of noise in that thing. I just think it's a stupid decision to have them wear clothes just because they're teenagers.

Yes, they've probably been exposed to pop culture through television, but they have had this before and have never had the desire to dress in clothes like humans. Not at all. Hell, Raph made a comment in the Nick show along the lines of, "That's as useless as a Turtle wearing a trench coat." I agree with Leo that the Turtles wouldn't see themselves as humans and wouldn't want to emulate them all the way. Okay, I could see Mikey maybe doing this, but not the others.

[TrickOrTreater]

I find it absolutely hilarious that, at the base of this ENTIRE argument, you've got some people saying that it totally makes sense for the Turtles to wear human clothes and that they love it.

But if you had shown them the movie's Turtles with nothing on except the traditional brown leather elbow/knee pads, weapons, and the masks, you wouldn't hear a SINGLE, SOLITARY word in the vein of "man, these are good, but I really wish they were wearing loincloths and sunglasses."

Some people like these designs purely because they were GIVEN these designs. If the Turtles were dressed traditionally, wouldn't hear a peep about nerd glasses or loincloths or pants.

And that's just darn funny.

[TrickOrTreater]

But i also agree i dont get how people think this is over doing it when we have seen designs much much worse.

I love this too.

"Oh we've seen much worse so something bad is totally okay!"

[TrickOrTreater]

In a world where the turtles wear clothes, I don't see the outfits as unusual. The outfits suit the personalities, which are extremes. Donnie builds blimps and hi-tech gadgets. That's extremely stereotypical for his personality. So is Raph riding a motorcycle, and Mikey delivering pizza to save money for a surfboard. So, it didn't strike me as, "Whoa, this is too much," but as the turtles freely expressing themselves.

The Turtles freely express themselves through their entirely unique to each other personalities and various weapons.

They don't need clothes to hammer home the point that each Turtle is different in personality. Their differing personalities/weapons were more than enough.

And different body types are cool too.

[chrisdude]

Wow. Look what I've missed. Sam, I understand where you're coming from, but the reason that the Turtles shouldn't wear clothes is because they never have before. What's the point in it? If it's for going to the surface to disguise themselves, then those are pretty poor choices for disguises as they don't really camouflage them and conceal them. Leo's bamboo thing is illogical and definitely NOT ninja-esque. He'd make all sorts of noise in that thing. I just think it's a stupid decision to have them wear clothes just because they're teenagers.

Yes, they've probably been exposed to pop culture through television, but they have had this before and have never had the desire to dress in clothes like humans. Not at all. Hell, Raph made a comment in the Nick show along the lines of, "That's as useless as a Turtle wearing a trench coat." I agree with Leo that the Turtles wouldn't see themselves as humans and wouldn't want to emulate them all the way. Okay, I could see Mikey maybe doing this, but not the others.This idea that they wouldn't wear clothes, I don't get. They're naked. Naked. Really, they do everything else in life like humans. There's always a clear division between the worlds of the turtles and the people above, and that's part of what defines TMNT. But in terms of lifestyle, activity, and culture, emulating humans is what they do. Heck, "Emulating Humans" could be the title of Michelangelo's biography.

Maybe they would choose not to wear clothes, but I can't imagine how the idea of them choosing to offends people. You may as well ask why they sleep in beds, instead of water. It's practically a coin toss as to which makes the most sense. And if you think they wouldn't wear clothes, that's fine. But I don't think it's reasonable to say one way is just plain out of the question.
EDIT_________________
I find it absolutely hilarious that, at the base of this ENTIRE argument, you've got some people saying that it totally makes sense for the Turtles to wear human clothes and that they love it.

But if you had shown them the movie's Turtles with nothing on except the traditional brown leather elbow/knee pads, weapons, and the masks, you wouldn't hear a SINGLE, SOLITARY word in the vein of "man, these are good, but I really wish they were wearing loincloths and sunglasses."

Some people like these designs purely because they were GIVEN these designs. If the Turtles were dressed traditionally, wouldn't hear a peep about nerd glasses or loincloths or pants.

And that's just darn funny.I'm sure I'm on record here, several times, professing my amusement in the turtles wearing clothes. I've always loved it. Hence the icon. But that's just me.

[TrickOrTreater]

Maybe they would choose not to wear clothes, but I can't imagine how the idea of them choosing to offends people.

And like has been said by me, and others, the idea of them wearing "clothes" does not offend me.

It's how this movie has gone about it that offends me.

I've already explained what I'd like to see the Turtles in elsewhere, and my main point was SUBLTY.

THESE designs are not subtle.

[Candy Kappa]

Well, put it this way. If the turtles are gonna wear clothes, at least make it look decent and plausible.

Leo's Shoulder plates are still annoying to look at.

[Bry]

Really, they do everything else in life like humans.

Well, I know I live in the sewer and hide my existence from the world above, but I can't speak for anyone else...

Maybe they would choose not to wear clothes, but I can't imagine how the idea of them choosing to offends people. You may as well ask why they sleep in beds, instead of water. It's practically a coin toss as to which makes the most sense. And if you think they wouldn't wear clothes, that's fine. But I don't think it's reasonable to say one way is just plain out of the question.

They're humanoid, and they have an interest in human culture, but that doesn't make them 100% "human". They're not. And they're not 100% turtles, either. They're something different.

Besides, even if you say they're naked - what would there be to offend people? Their design is such that no genitals are visible. Their shells already function as armour, and there's no reason to suppose they have the same feelings of shame about their bodies that most people have. I really feel this is overthinking things.

As ninjas, silent, unrestricted movement is very important. What we have here is purposeless layers, shoulder pads, straps and dangly pieces that would slow them down, restrict their movement, and give their enemies something to grab onto. And like was already said, there's even noisy and pointless armour in Leonardo's bamboo chest piece. The designs are illogical, overly busy, and take away from the proven and recognizable character design we've had for 30 years.

I mean... There's no reason they can't wear clothes, but the first question should be "why should they?" Does it really add anything to the designs? Is there any reason that the design that's been largely untouched since 1984 suddenly doesn't "work"? Because if we're trying to invent reasons to back up a change rather than changing things because of a good reason, then it's probably a bad idea from the get-go.

[chrisdude]

Well, I know I live in the sewer and hide my existence from the world above, but I can't speak for anyone else...Wow. Way to not quote the part when I said:

"There's always a clear division between the worlds of the turtles and the people above, and that's part of what defines TMNT."

Honestly, there are a couple people here who are getting really good at that...

They're humanoid, and they have an interest in human culture, but that doesn't make them 100% "human". They're not. And they're not 100% turtles, either. They're something different.It's not just an interest in human culture. Their culture is human. They're bodies aren't 100% human, but their culture is. From Splinter practicing Yoshi's moves, from his rat cage, their culture is fundamentally human.

Besides, even if you say they're naked - what would there be to offend people? Their design is such that no genitals are visible. Their shells already function as armour, and there's no reason to suppose they have the same feelings of shame about their bodies that most people have. I really feel this is overthinking things.

As ninjas, silent, unrestricted movement is very important. What we have here is purposeless layers, shoulder pads, straps and dangly pieces that would slow them down, restrict their movement, and give their enemies something to grab onto. And like was already said, there's even noisy and pointless armour in Leonardo's bamboo chest piece. The designs are illogical, overly busy, and take away from the proven and recognizable character design we've had for 30 years.

I mean... There's no reason they can't wear clothes, but the first question should be "why should they?" Does it really add anything to the designs? Is there any reason that the design that's been largely untouched since 1984 suddenly doesn't "work"? Because if we're trying to invent reasons to back up a change rather than changing things because of a good reason, then it's probably a bad idea from the get-go.Seriously? I'm the one who's over-thinking things?

[EDIT: Sorry. Misread that part about overthinking. Racing against the clock to catch Agents of SHIELD]


___________________________________

And like has been said by me, and others, the idea of them wearing "clothes" does not offend me.

It's how this movie has gone about it that offends me.

I've already explained what I'd like to see the Turtles in elsewhere, and my main point was SUBLTY.

THESE designs are not subtle.Subtly is one way to go about it. I'm not denying that. Or, you could have, like, a turtle van, or something outrageous like that. Diff'rent Strokes.

[TrickOrTreater]

Subtly is one way to go about it. I'm not denying that. Or, you could have, like, a turtle van, or something outrageous like that. Diff'rent Strokes.

I must have missed the part where the subtly of certain aspects goes out the window with the unsubtly of other aspects.

Huh.

[slingtheory]

I kind of think you ar over thinking the whole noise and stealth Yes Full realistically it might make noise but if they dont add sound effect to it then it wont matter and i seriously doubt you will be sitting there watching it seeing the action and be thing "hey his chop stick armor isn't making noise.... GGRRRRRRRR that makes no sense." same goes for what you might then is loose hang stuff It wont matter if they dont animate it in a way the has it catch or trip them up Its like how people make sun of super heroes who wear capes the Incredibles
So I'm over thinking it because the sound effect people and the cgi animators might decide to not make things do what they would realistically do. Just because they do that doesn't make me change my opinion of it. If anything it makes it stupider. Regardless these are issues I feel like a better character designer would've brought up in the concept stage.

[Bry]

Wow. Way to not quote the part when I said:

"There's always a clear division between the worlds of the turtles and the people above, and that's part of what defines TMNT."

Honestly, there are a couple people here who are getting really good at that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9NbvTOfaU

Uh, if the embed code doesn't work: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9NbvTOfaU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9NbvTOfaU)

[chrisdude]

I must have missed the part where the subtly of certain aspects goes out the window with the unsubtly of other aspects.

Huh.I'm saying, yes, subtlety is an option, but why would one expect that from TMNT?

Uh, if the embed code doesn't work: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9NbvTOfaU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9NbvTOfaU)http://i.imgur.com/YwOySU1.gif

[TrickOrTreater]

I'm saying, yes, subtlety is an option, but why would one expect that from TMNT?

Why WOULDN'T I?

I've seen the original movie. I very much know what the property is capable of.

[slingtheory]

Wow. Way to not quote the part when I said:

"There's always a clear division between the worlds of the turtles and the people above, and that's part of what defines TMNT."

Honestly, there are a couple people here who are getting really good at that...

It's not just an interest in human culture. Their culture is human. They're bodies aren't 100% human, but their culture is. From Splinter practicing Yoshi's moves, from his rat cage, their culture is fundamentally human.
. though the turtles do live by human culture I don't ever remember there being a point where they showed a desire to live as humans do. They've expressed wanting to be accepted by society and being able to walk among people but never outright wanting to be people. Look back at the first episode of the ot and you have them questioning april about some of the things humans do that they consider to be stupid. I know that's just one universe but that's the vibe I get from the whole franchise.
And that's the problem I have with the argument that the turtles just want to do what regular teenagers do. I think they're smart enough to understand they're not regular. They have none of the reasons to dress themselves that normal people do. They don't need to protect themselves from the elements and assuming the movie isn't like the old cartoon where they were publicly know heros they have noone to express themselves to. Who are they supposed to be showing of their personalitys to? Splinter? Each other? The guys trying to kill them? I think that being even being teenagers the turtles would dress more for battle than expression and the gear they have in this movie would fail to protect them from anything. So what's the point?

[Bry]

http://i.imgur.com/YwOySU1.gif

HA! You're all right, dude. :tsmile:

It's not just an interest in human culture. Their culture is human. They're bodies aren't 100% human, but their culture is. From Splinter practicing Yoshi's moves, from his rat cage, their culture is fundamentally human.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's totally accurate. I'd say, if anything, their culture is "human", though only through the filter of isolation, knowing they're separate from it. A key part of human culture is being a part of humanity. We're social animals. The Turtles are by nature removed from humanity and can't be truly social beyond their small family. They only first meet a human either battling Purple Dragons, the Foot Ninja and the Shredder, or meeting April by chance, and they're adolescents at that point. They simply haven't had the key social development experiences that every other human has. They get along all right, but they're always different and always will be.

I think every iteration of this franchise that works is keenly aware of this, whether they play it for jokes like the '87 cartoon or "seriously" explore it to some degree. It's a part of what makes them special. They absorb human culture through a television set, or music, or the Internet, or what-have-you, but they're never truly a part of it.

(So hey, maybe you had a point about me overthinking things? :tlol: )

[samxsteal]

though the turtles do live by human culture I don't ever remember there being a point where they showed a desire to live as humans do. They've expressed wanting to be accepted by society and being able to walk among people but never outright wanting to be people. Look back at the first episode of the ot and you have them questioning april about some of the things humans do that they consider to be stupid. I know that's just one universe but that's the vibe I get from the whole franchise.
And that's the problem I have with the argument that the turtles just want to do what regular teenagers do. I think they're smart enough to understand they're not regular. They have none of the reasons to dress themselves that normal people do. They don't need to protect themselves from the elements and assuming the movie isn't like the old cartoon where they were publicly know heros they have noone to express themselves to. Who are they supposed to be showing of their personalitys to? Splinter? Each other? The guys trying to kill them? I think that being even being teenagers the turtles would dress more for battle than expression and the gear they have in this movie would fail to protect them from anything. So what's the point?
Never mind all the other humans there have ever constantly interacted with and continue to interact with. A

Also Teenager are at the pentacle of self expression. I was a teen, my friends certainly did. "teen" Soldiers Have a known tendency to express them self by any mean in which they are allowed. Being a soldier or a martial artist does not hamper the need as a being to self express.

[slingtheory]

Never mind all the other humans there have ever constantly interacted with and continue to interact with. A

Also Teenager are at the pentacle of self expression. I was a teen, my friends certainly did. "teen" Soldiers Have a known tendency to express them self by any mean in which they are allowed. Being a soldier or a martial artist does not hamper the need as a being to self express.

What I'm saying is they desire to interact with humans but they don't want to be human. The catch phrase is" I love being a turtle" after all. Not "I sure wish I was a regular guy". Just because they hang out with some normal people doesn't mean they would want dress up because they do.and of course when you were a teenager you wanted to express yourself because you're a human and you interact with other humans on a daily basis. Its only natural that you would want to stand out among your peers and advertise your interests to them. Mutant turtles on the other hand have no peers so I don't see a reason they would feel that need. And its not like we're talking about the turtles wearing regular clothes here anyway. Its obvious the movie gear is meant to be their fighting gear and I think it looks useless for that purpose. They could of just left them as is for all the good most of the junk they put on them would do.

[samxsteal]

HA! You're all right, dude. :tsmile:



I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's totally accurate. I'd say, if anything, their culture is "human", though only through the filter of isolation, knowing they're separate from it. A key part of human culture is being a part of humanity. We're social animals. The Turtles are by nature removed from humanity and can't be truly social beyond their small family. They only first meet a human either battling Purple Dragons, the Foot Ninja and the Shredder, or meeting April by chance, and they're adolescents at that point. They simply haven't had the key social development experiences that every other human has. They get along all right, but they're always different and always will be.
And yet in just about every version they feel the need to interact and be apart of humanity, If they felt that need would they not also have other humanly urges Such as self expression?

I also think of this ans kind of an extension on there disguises, i mean the ot they wore cloths all the time in the comic they worn clothes, This just kind feels and extension of that and maybe once they realize its not enough that they still need to Hide from the general public they wear deeper disguises Ala Trench coat and hat. But they still might feel the need to express them selves to those that already know their existence who also dont want to kill them. which is large group of people throughout all the versions of the turtles.

http://www.abload.de/img/008-s1e08-fallenangelfwk7x.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FN1P7bwWYiA/Tf1BEOLExkI/AAAAAAAAGCg/uQgLczyzKH0/s1600/01.jpg
http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/raph-donny-and-mike-in-disguise.jpg
http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/22020131651140.gif
I think every iteration of this franchise that works is keenly aware of this, whether they play it for jokes like the '87 cartoon or "seriously" explore it to some degree. It's a part of what makes them special. They absorb human culture through a television set, or music, or the Internet, or what-have-you, but they're never truly a part of it.

(So hey, maybe you had a point about me overthinking things? :tlol: )it can still be that way and have them wearing clothes lol

[samxsteal]

What I'm saying is they desire to interact with humans but they don't want to be human. The catch phrase is" I love being a turtle" after all. Not "I sure wish I was a regular guy". Just because they hang out with some normal people doesn't mean they would want dress up because they do.and of course when you were a teenager you wanted to express yourself because you're a human and you interact with other humans on a daily basis. Its only natural that you would want to stand out among your peers and advertise your interests to them. Mutant turtles on the other hand have no peers so I don't see a reason they would feel that need. And its not like we're talking about the turtles wearing regular clothes here anyway. Its obvious the movie gear is meant to be their fighting gear and I think it looks useless for that purpose. They could of just left them as is for all the good most of the junk they put on them would do.
I would agree if it was one mutant who barely ever interacts with humans. But they aren't they're A family unite from a species who dont live in family groups. they live in a very human home, the have a very human family structure, the express human emotions, they are in all intents and purposes Humans.

[TrickOrTreater]

they are in all intents and purposes Humans.

Except they're not human.

Haha oh man.:lol:

[chrisdude]

though the turtles do live by human culture I don't ever remember there being a point where they showed a desire to live as humans do. They've expressed wanting to be accepted by society and being able to walk among people but never outright wanting to be people. Look back at the first episode of the ot and you have them questioning april about some of the things humans do that they consider to be stupid. I know that's just one universe but that's the vibe I get from the whole franchise.I think they do live as humans do. Just underground. Their dwelling is human, their entertainment, their martial art. The things they do with their time. Yes, they're cut off from a society that, sometimes, they wish they could be a part of. But aside from that, how are they different in the way they choose to live? They could go find a quite place and live in nature. But they love technology, and ninjutsu, and pizza.

And that's the problem I have with the argument that the turtles just want to do what regular teenagers do. I think they're smart enough to understand they're not regular. They have none of the reasons to dress themselves that normal people do. They don't need to protect themselves from the elements and assuming the movie isn't like the old cartoon where they were publicly know heros they have noone to express themselves to. Who are they supposed to be showing of their personalitys to? Splinter? Each other? The guys trying to kill them? I think that being even being teenagers the turtles would dress more for battle than expression and the gear they have in this movie would fail to protect them from anything. So what's the point?This is fair. And I'm not arguing for reasons the turtles need to be wearing clothes. Maybe, since they're cut off from society, they live only in ninja gear or nudity. I just think, as sentient beings, and as teenagers, it's equally reasonable to think that they would clothe themselves, and even do so according to personal preference.

[Leo656]

I mean... There's no reason they can't wear clothes, but the first question should be "why should they?" Does it really add anything to the designs? Is there any reason that the design that's been largely untouched since 1984 suddenly doesn't "work"? Because if we're trying to invent reasons to back up a change rather than changing things because of a good reason, then it's probably a bad idea from the get-go.

Laaaaaaaaaaav yoooooooou. :)

[slingtheory]

Quite simply I see it like this. The turtles are not human teenagers and they know it. For that reason they would never feel the need to dress to express themselves as humans do because noone would ever see it. They don't go to school. They don't interact with society on large. They have no peers to stand out among and no cute girl turtles to impress. No one they meet is going to compliment on their sense of style. They're gonna try to kill them or they're gonna run screaming from the giant monster they just encountered. They don't live like us so they wouldn't dress like us. If they would wear something it would be suited to how they live. Which is constantly getting into life or death battles with gangsters, megalomaniacs, and evil ninjas. Call me crazy but I feel like if they were going to dress themselves it would be more about not dieing than showing off what kind of turtle they are. And if they were going to try to express themselves while doing it they'd do a whole lot better than loincloths and strung together bamboo

[TrickOrTreater]

And add to all this, I'll just repeat what Leo656 has said previously:

The movie studio/people involved in this movie did not dress the Turtles in this movie in this way because of story reasons or character reasons.

They dressed them this way to sell toys. To make them "stand out" on the shelves.

It's selling to the lowest common denominator.

Not only does it NOT make sense from a story stand point, but it's also very insulting.

Also, it's not a coincidence that they're all dressed to match their personality except cranked up to ridiculous. Their mentality, I'm almost positive of, is that "it's not enough for the Turtles to act differently or sound differently or use different weapons or wear different colored masks. If they're all wearing brown leather arm/knee pads and some taped up feet/hands, how will the general audience tell them apart?! I know! Let's give the surfer one pooka shells and pants and sunglasses!"

And so on and so on.

People ascribing the "they're teenagers so they'll obviously wear clothes to express themselves" motives to the people behind this movie's designs are giving them WAAY too much credit.

[Bry]

Laaaaaaaaaaav yoooooooou. :)

http://s10.postimg.org/460qjxhkp/tmnt_kissyface.jpg

:tgrin:

For real, though... To each their own, and if some fans like these designs, then more power to 'em. But they are pretty unprecedented. The Turtles have worn "human" clothes in the past, but almost always it's strictly been to blend in on the surface, and the second it isn't a matter of necessity anymore they tend to ditch them. This is a practical thing (again, less clothes means better ease of movement) as well as acknowledging that the Turtles aren't actually human. The more you cover them up or hide their turtley features, the more it takes away from what they are, and that's a key part of their appeal.

They're the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and every word in that title is key. IMO, designs that have them covering up half or more of their bodies while looking like steroid-abusing giants completely takes away from at least half of that. To me, that makes them bad designs.

But at this point I guess I'm just repeating myself, so I'mma call it a night.

[samxsteal]

Quite simply I see it like this. The turtles are not human teenagers and they know it. For that reason they would never feel the need to dress to express themselves as humans do because noone would ever see it. They don't go to school. They don't interact with society on large. They have no peers to stand out among and no cute girl turtles to impress. No one they meet is going to compliment on their sense of style. They're gonna try to kill them or they're gonna run screaming from the giant monster they just encountered. They don't live like us so they wouldn't dress like us. If they would wear something it would be suited to how they live. Which is constantly getting into life or death battles with gangsters, megalomaniacs, and evil ninjas. Call me crazy but I feel like if they were going to dress themselves it would be more about not dieing than showing off what kind of turtle they are. And if they were going to try to express themselves while doing it they'd do a whole lot better than loincloths and strung together bamboo
It cool you think that

Bold 1
People they would definitely see are; April, Casey, Angel, Irma, Vernon, Kurtzman, Mr. Murakami San(i know hes blind), Caitlyn, Zach, Shadow Jones, and many many more.

bold 2
They would want to stand out from each other that's the whole idea of why they would personalize themselves.

bold 3
And yet they play video games, play pranks, relax, watch tv, movies, skate board, and many other essentially human things. while they to Fight and do all those things you said after the bold. They also do alot of Basic human things, in basic human ways.

[Candy Kappa]

bold 3
And yet they play video games, play pranks, relax, watch tv, movies, skate board, and many other essentially human things. while they to Fight and do all those things you said after the bold. They also do alot of Basic human things, in basic human ways.

Is that really basic human things?

Theres plenty of animals on real-life that do things to entertain themselves. The Turtles have pose-able thumbs and a body to match up with a lot of things we do to entertain ourselves, such as video games, skate boarding.

My very own pet turtles do various thing for "entertainment", redecorating the tank, bother each other, and I've seen one of them when walking freely in the living room stop in front of the tv and studying what was going on on the screen for several minutes. I doubt she knew what it was, but she still showed a clear interest in that "busy window".

[chrisdude]

Quite simply I see it like this. The turtles are not human teenagers and they know it. For that reason they would never feel the need to dress to express themselves as humans do because noone would ever see it. They don't go to school. They don't interact with society on large. They have no peers to stand out among and no cute girl turtles to impress. No one they meet is going to compliment on their sense of style. They're gonna try to kill them or they're gonna run screaming from the giant monster they just encountered. They don't live like us so they wouldn't dress like us. If they would wear something it would be suited to how they live. Which is constantly getting into life or death battles with gangsters, megalomaniacs, and evil ninjas. Call me crazy but I feel like if they were going to dress themselves it would be more about not dieing than showing off what kind of turtle they are. And if they were going to try to express themselves while doing it they'd do a whole lot better than loincloths and strung together bamboo
And add to all this, I'll just repeat what Leo656 has said previously:

The movie studio/people involved in this movie did not dress the Turtles in this movie in this way because of story reasons or character reasons.

They dressed them this way to sell toys. To make them "stand out" on the shelves.

It's selling to the lowest common denominator.

Not only does it NOT make sense from a story stand point, but it's also very insulting.

Also, it's not a coincidence that they're all dressed to match their personality except cranked up to ridiculous. Their mentality, I'm almost positive of, is that "it's not enough for the Turtles to act differently or sound differently or use different weapons or wear different colored masks. If they're all wearing brown leather arm/knee pads and some taped up feet/hands, how will the general audience tell them apart?! I know! Let's give the surfer one pooka shells and pants and sunglasses!"

And so on and so on.

People ascribing the "they're teenagers so they'll obviously wear clothes to express themselves" motives to the people behind this movie's designs are giving them WAAY too much credit.I don't think anyone is denying that these designs were made for toys. And I don't think anyone is claiming that the turtles absolutely would, or even ought to wear clothes to express themselves. But I don't think they absolutely wouldn't.

My point has been that I think it's plausible. I don't think the reasoning that, "They don't have social lives, so if they wore clothes, it would only be ninja gear" makes any more sense than, "They're sentient beings, and as such, may dress themselves according to preference." I don't buy that if the turtles live in isolation, there's no chance that they would wear clothes that they liked.

I keep saying that I just think it's plausible, and other just keep explaining why they don't think it would happen. I think both scenarios are reasonable, so I think I'm done here.

[slingtheory]

I don't think anyone is denying that these designs were made for toys. And I don't think anyone is claiming that the turtles absolutely would, or even ought to wear clothes to express themselves. But I don't think they absolutely wouldn't.

My point has been that I think it's plausible. I don't think the reasoning that, "They don't have social lives, so if they wore clothes, it would only be ninja gear" makes any more sense than, "They're sentient beings, and as such, may dress themselves according to preference." I don't buy that if the turtles live in isolation, there's no chance that they would wear clothes that they liked.

I keep saying that I just think it's plausible, and other just keep explaining why they don't think it would happen. I think both scenarios are reasonable, so I think I'm done here.

let me just pull back a little bit. I do agree with you that its plausible that the turtles maybe would wear something. I just think the result would be better than what we're presented with for this movie. the point being that preference would come after performance. seeing as they're supposed to be fighting/going on missions in these outfits just seems to me that if the turtles were going to bother with them they would at least have to find them useful. and with the possible exception of that thing on donnies back(assuming it actually does something) they don't look useful. so they restrict their movement and risk slowing themselves down for what? to make a fashion statement? sorry I don't buy it. even if as teenagers they want to express themselves though dress I just think theyd find a better way to do it than this.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Is the script still available for PM?

I'd like to cringe at the horror as well. :D


EDIT: Found the link on an earlier page (swore I clicked on it and it didn't work but did later). But thanks for the PMs with the info guys. :)

[samxsteal]

I don't think anyone is denying that these designs were made for toys. And I don't think anyone is claiming that the turtles absolutely would, or even ought to wear clothes to express themselves. But I don't think they absolutely wouldn't.

My point has been that I think it's plausible. I don't think the reasoning that, "They don't have social lives, so if they wore clothes, it would only be ninja gear" makes any more sense than, "They're sentient beings, and as such, may dress themselves according to preference." I don't buy that if the turtles live in isolation, there's no chance that they would wear clothes that they liked.

I keep saying that I just think it's plausible, and other just keep explaining why they don't think it would happen. I think both scenarios are reasonable, so I think I'm done here.
Agreed i just think its really an issue.

[Leo656]

Well, again, as with any change, it falls to whether a person will take "any ol' reason", or only "a GOOD reason."

Things like "Why not?" or "Just because" simply won't work on everyone. It's good for people to question things. Nobody should ever just accept what they're given, in life. You do that, then eventually you get Batman on ice skates and Robocop with a jet pack.

And, fair warning, there WILL be a murder if someone tries to convince me that either of those things was a good move. Absolute atrocities will be committed, I assure you.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

The retrofitting garden tools as weapons is almost straight out of Ross Campbell concepts

Just a note on this "retrofitting garden tools" idea....

Um....

The sai IS a garden tool. It's not a weapon. It's for planting rice. That's the purpose of it, that's why it was made.

The bo? It's a staff. Many every day uses and the handle of many garden tools.

The nunchaku? Also believed to be originated from a garden tool.

Leonardo is the only turtle whose weapon is, by initial design, a weapon. :D

[Candy Kappa]

Just a note on this "retrofitting garden tools" idea....

Um....

The sai IS a garden tool. It's not a weapon. It's for planting rice. That's the purpose of it, that's why it was made.

The bo? It's a staff. Many every day uses and the handle of many garden tools.

The nunchaku? Also believed to be originated from a garden tool.

Leonardo is the only turtle whose weapon is, by initial design, a weapon. :D

Not quite, it's one of the theories that the Sai originates from gardening tools, another is that it is based off the weapon cabang which itself is believed to be based of the weapon trishula, a three pointed trident. Although the Sai have very little uncommon with the trishula as one is a bladed weapon and the other is a baton.

The Nunchaku have romanticized stories of being farmers weapons when being oppressed. Old Chinese tales tells that the Nunchaku derives from the two-section staff, or from a threshing flail for rice, or in Okinawa it's said be based off a horse bit, or a clapper used by the night watch in villages.

[BubblyShell22]

It cool you think that

Bold 1
People they would definitely see are; April, Casey, Angel, Irma, Vernon, Kurtzman, Mr. Murakami San(i know hes blind), Caitlyn, Zach, Shadow Jones, and many many more.

bold 2
They would want to stand out from each other that's the whole idea of why they would personalize themselves.

bold 3
And yet they play video games, play pranks, relax, watch tv, movies, skate board, and many other essentially human things. while they to Fight and do all those things you said after the bold. They also do alot of Basic human things, in basic human ways.


Yes, they interact with many humans, but that doesn't mean that they'd want to wear clothes just to personalize themselves. To me, if they were to wear clothes it would be to blend in on missions and things like that, not because they want to be like the humans above. And all of the humans you mentioned have accepted the Turtles as they are without them having to wear clothes or be like the humans.

They personalize themselves by the way they act. Mikey's the party dude and laid back one, Donnie's the tech guy, Raph's the rash one and can have a temper at times, and Leo's the leader and the one most dedicated to ninjitsu. What other personalization do they need? Nothing. And don't forget that they all have different colored masks, too. That's the way to personalize yourself and it's worked for thirty years. All of these clothes are unnecessary and just plain stupid. They're doing this to sell toys and also because they probably assume that kids won't know who's who unless they're wearing some type of clothing. Ridiculous.

Yes, they do emulate a lot of human things with their hobbies and such, but that doesn't mean they'd want to necessarily wear clothes all of the time. I think that sometimes they were confused by the whole wearing clothes thing. Didn't Raph say something about that in the 2K3 episode where Angel gave them the disguises? He thought it was weird that humans would dress like that.

Just my two cents.

[Candy Kappa]

Me personally, I prefer my turtles more animal then human. Like in the earlier Mirage issues, April gets a new haircut and asks the turtles if they like it. Raph comments on something in the lines like (paraphrasing):

"You look great."

And a thought ballon finishes his sentence :

"... For a human."

It's subtle enough and not hammered down in you as a reader that they aren't normal teenagers. Unlike the new movie's character design.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, exactly. I like them to be fascinated with human things yet also confused as to why humans would say/do/wear certain things. It gives more of a vibe that they don't totally understand humans and their customs being that they were sheltered underground for so long.

[TrickOrTreater]

I don't think anyone is denying that these designs were made for toys. And I don't think anyone is claiming that the turtles absolutely would, or even ought to wear clothes to express themselves. But I don't think they absolutely wouldn't.

My point has been that I think it's plausible. I don't think the reasoning that, "They don't have social lives, so if they wore clothes, it would only be ninja gear" makes any more sense than, "They're sentient beings, and as such, may dress themselves according to preference." I don't buy that if the turtles live in isolation, there's no chance that they would wear clothes that they liked.

I keep saying that I just think it's plausible, and other just keep explaining why they don't think it would happen. I think both scenarios are reasonable, so I think I'm done here.

And once again, for a few people, myself included, the issue isn't "clothes in general."

The issue here is "THESE clothes."

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Finally read through the whole script...

Honestly, not as bad as I expected. In fact, it was a pretty good basis for a film with a few specific caveats. The worst aspect is that it's a script and not a treatment. It feels like this should have been altered a lot between treatment and script.

Replacing the Foot and Shredder with Schrader and soldiers is clearly idiotic. Schrader being an alien, etc... it's not a bad idea in and of itself...it's making it clearly the replacement of Shredder I take issue with. If Schrader had been...Tragg? Or a completely original character with a new name revealed as a soldier for Krang? Alright, I can dig that.

Some of the dialogue was horrible, but with the right cast it could get improv'd and salvaged.

I think Casey and April being teenagers was pretty poorly thought out. As much as they do through the story, they should have more life experience to draw from for all these things. Early to mid twenties would work better. Post-college, still starting the job to career transition, etc.

But much like Transformers, the script was workable for the first half. Forget Shredder and the Foot being remotely involved in this script. Just imagine it purely as Krang and his forces preparing an invasion of Earth and I could roll with the first half of the script (barring some bad dialogue choices).

Then, as my friend and I like to say.... They just freakin' go to Cuba. (Seen Bad Boys II? Pretty good movie....then out of nowhere they go to Cuba. With barely a logical thread to rationalize it)

Merging Earth and Dimension X? That's cool, I can dig that. But altering their backstory so that...

A) Splinter's kind of a jerk lying to them the whole time (I didn't like the whole "Prof X is a jerk" twist Marvel did a while back either)
B) They're aliens from an alien race (and what the hell is Splinter, btw? Is there a rat race in Dimension X (rat race..wakka wakka)
C) The "hearts beat in unison" is pretty damn cheesy
D) The prophecy that they would save the entire world (two worlds) was painfully cliche

There's a lot more, but the entire Four children of prophecy to save the world, whisked away to another world to be kept safe, and raised by a family friend who lied to them about their heritage is just bad. Painfully bad. And it sets up for an ending that not only ruins a big cornerstone of TMNT but does a pretty lousy job of immediately establishing yourself for a sequel.

Bad enough to make the whole script tainted. TAINTED, I SAY!

They could have kept Dimension X. They could have kept the invasion. They could have had other throw backs to the comics and cartoon with a rebellion against Krang, etc. There's plenty of things that could have been used to make this script work without throwing the core and soul of TMNT in the trash.

And it doesn't feel like this would really be a good story for an origin. I mean, the basis of this script with Krang preparing a world-merge to power the technodrome so he could invade Earth? On some level, that could work for a second movie.

But for a suggested reboot. Ugh. No, keep the origin story true and just bring it up to current standards on film with the technology, choreography, etc.

Cuba, man....freakin' Cuba.

I'm just hoping the PD film isn't going to take me to Cuba as well.

And once again, for a few people, myself included, the issue isn't "clothes in general."

The issue here is "THESE clothes."

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the sequel dropped the outfits and went back to the classic look (kind of like I've heard Superman is doing post Man of Steel). But then....Transformers are still a near undistinguishable mash of metal and we're on film four.

[Commenter 42]

Me personally, I prefer my turtles more animal then human. Like in the earlier Mirage issues, April gets a new haircut and asks the turtles if they like it. Raph comments on something in the lines like (paraphrasing):

"You look great."

And a thought ballon finishes his sentence :

"... For a human."

It's subtle enough and not hammered down in you as a reader that they aren't normal teenagers. Unlike the new movie's character design.

Exactly. That's precisely what made the Mirage version so compelling. Some People miss the point and think of them as disfigured humans, or creatures that want to be human. Early in the OT the sentiment clearly was that they were comfortable as turtles, and even mocked humans at times.

[Commenter 42]

though the turtles do live by human culture I don't ever remember there being a point where they showed a desire to live as humans do. They've expressed wanting to be accepted by society and being able to walk among people but never outright wanting to be people. Look back at the first episode of the ot and you have them questioning april about some of the things humans do that they consider to be stupid. I know that's just one universe but that's the vibe I get from the whole franchise.
And that's the problem I have with the argument that the turtles just want to do what regular teenagers do. I think they're smart enough to understand they're not regular. They have none of the reasons to dress themselves that normal people do. They don't need to protect themselves from the elements and assuming the movie isn't like the old cartoon where they were publicly know heros they have noone to express themselves to. Who are they supposed to be showing of their personalitys to? Splinter? Each other? The guys trying to kill them? I think that being even being teenagers the turtles would dress more for battle than expression and the gear they have in this movie would fail to protect them from anything. So what's the point?

Very well said. 100x this.

[TrickOrTreater]

Exactly. That's precisely what made the Mirage version so compelling. Some People miss the point and think of them as disfigured humans, or creatures that want to be human. Early in the OT the sentiment clearly was that they were comfortable as turtles, and even mocked humans at times.

It's not "I wish I was human!", it's "I love being a Turtle!"

[BubblyShell22]

Exactly. They're proud to be who they are. Sure, they wish they were accepted into society for what they do, but I just don't see them wanting to wear clothes just because "that's what humans do so we should do it, too."

[Candy Kappa]

Turtle pride!

[TrickOrTreater]

Turtle pride!

http://i.imgur.com/nzmBXBF.jpg?1

[Commenter 42]

I'd love to know what PD paid to have an "artist" come up with these "designs".

They should ask for their money back.