Episode Discussion S2 #16 "The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman"

[victory_angel]

It's Sunday and the official thread for this episode has not been put up yet. So I am starting this for anyone who has caught the episode on Itunes.

[Barkworm]

Baxter's design was surprisingly creepy in motion.

[electric_sheep]

Blah, what a crappy, crappy episode...

[JTH]

Blah, what a crappy, crappy episode...
I don't know what I believe less.

That you actually watched it, or that you bought the episode to see it...

[electric_sheep]

I don't know what I believe less.

That you actually watched it, or that you bought the episode to see it...

Bought? yeah, i watched it and it sucked. April gets kidnaped again, in the blandest of ways, baxter's design is generic and uncreative and it was not funny, not a single funny moment. Bland, generic, not interesing that's just some of the things this episode is...

[VaughnMichael]

This episode was fantastic!
It's right up there as one of my favorite episodes!
ACE DUCK! so funny I wonder if we will see him?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Harmophious/aceduck_zps4dadc3d9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Harmophious/media/aceduck_zps4dadc3d9.jpg.html)
A Pig & a Rhino Baxter says! hahah ;)
Man Baxter sure turned out to be one ugly fly, I wonder if he will start to loose his mind like he did in the 80's toon.
Man when April fell into the Mutagen I gasped, now we know since she's part Kraang she can't be affected by it.
Nice to see Rahzar so much through this episode but where is Fishface?
Mikey is pretty annoying in this episode which I don't like as he's usually really funny.
I'm really happy for Donatello though as that's a huge scientific break through.
I had another gasping moment as I seriously thought the second tube of retro-mutagen was going to go to waste.
But with that being said, I find it a bit odd that it only took a few drops too Kirby's skin to turn him back.
Couldn't they just have used it on the others if that's all it took?
It's cool that Kirby is finally back to normal though and I really hope Donatello will be able to me more of a cure for the others.
I really liked the ending of this one and can't wait to see who Shredder wants him to mutate!

[Vicky82]

Oh my god, what a fantastic episode, it was so intence, Will post thoughts later.

[JTH]

New episode was great.

Tense moments and man...April/Donnie up the wazoo.

He got two kisses in this episode, more than the rest of the series combined. And one right in front of Casey. And yeah, he's jealous...:D

[Shark_Blade]

A great episode. :D Truly remarkable what they've brought on to the table. :D

[MrTMNT2012]

Good Episode! Loved the sound design on Baxterfly, and Shredder has plans for one final mutant? Interesting.

The action and humour was lacking this week but it made up for it with it's great design, visuals and direction. Really liked how dark and creepy the Episode got and how it seguewayed into Kirby's retromutation which creates a nice balance; as always this aspect of the show is well done and commendable. I especially loved the intro to this episode, one of the best mutation scenes yet...

All around, great episode! (8.5/10) -- 'The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman'.

[Tazi]

It was pretty enjoyable, especially compared to the previous episode, tho there are some logical/continuity errors:
Like when the turtles worried about April falling into the mutagen, while it's already established that she is immune to it. Or how the hell Baxter, then Rahzar found out about the anti-mutagen? And yeah, it's kinda ridicolous to know that one drop was enough of it to make the change (aren't they used to say something like this about acid in the '60s? :lol:). yet they had to carry the whole canister.
Overall it was an enjoyable episode still, they really made Baxter-fly into a disgusting creature, even keeping the way for him of how flies eat IRL. And it established Shredder as a real menace for his minions by actually fulfilling his punishment.

[JTH]

It was pretty enjoyable, especially compared to the previous episode, tho there are some logical/continuity errors:
Like when the turtles worried about April falling into the mutagen, while it's already established that she is immune to it.
No it was not established.

They showed she was unaffected by Kraang Water, not mutagen.

This was the first time they showed this.

[Vicky82]

It was pretty enjoyable, especially compared to the previous episode, tho there are some logical/continuity errors:
Like when the turtles worried about April falling into the mutagen, while it's already established that she is immune to it. Or how the hell Baxter, then Rahzar found out about the anti-mutagen? And yeah, it's kinda ridicolous to know that one drop was enough of it to make the change (aren't they used to say something like this about acid in the '60s? :lol:). yet they had to carry the whole canister.
Overall it was an enjoyable episode still, they really made Baxter-fly into a disgusting creature, even keeping the way for him of how flies eat IRL. And it established Shredder as a real menace for his minions by actually fulfilling his punishment.

Actually we wern't sure she was immune to mutagen, we knew she was immune to Kranng Water from season 1 but not mutagen.
Rahzar has good hearing that's why he knew about the retro mutagen
You could hear Baxter Stockman listening to turtles when they wemt for Kirby Bat so he must have got good hearing when he got mutated.
About the 1 drop of retro mutagen was enough to change Kirby, yeah i'm wondering that too and maybe changing back to human isn't permanent.

[Tazi]

I remembered it wrongly then, I thought it was mutagen. What is Krang Water exactly?

[ninja-zero]

Oh well. Looks like its time to find a better "Wingnut & Screwloose".

[Vicky82]

It was from the Episode Karai's Vendetta, I do remember that Donnie was showing it to others he put a pizza in the Kranng water and it destroyed the pizza. The water spilt on to April but didn't effect her. The Kranng wanted it to be put in the water suply. Why? I don't no.

[MiBs]

Wow, I liked this one a lot more, than I thought I would. The Baxter mutation was creepy cool, I actually think I like him better this way - darker and more evil, instead of a sad, whiny human. Mikey was a bit annoying with all the buzz buzz, but at least it was only for a couple of scenes. I also gasped when April fell fell into the mutagen, especially because Donnie was the last thing she touched before she fell in (Venus alert). In all a very nice ep.....and with the Slash/Newt episode coming up :D

[Overlordofnobodies]

Wow Baxter was ten time better as a fly then he was ever as a human. Beside being better cool fighter.He was all so a lot more eviler sounding.

A little Sad about April getting out of the ooze with nothing wrong but I was not to surprise. Like in the 80's cartoon. April will all was look human even if she is not fully human by blood.

All so it is all was great to see April fight.

[Machias Banshee]

Thanks for posting the thread. My internet has been dead for much of the past week, so I've only been on for short stops....

[CyberCubed]

Fantastic episode and I love the way they handled Baxter-fly.

The meat of this episode was a mad dash for the retro-mutagen and I loved the "keep away" theme of this episode. Its also nice that Rahzar really does want to become human again too, even after he was more satisfied with his double mutation.

Loved that they brought up Splinter returning to human form. I hope we get a Nick version of "Splinter No More" from the original toon.

So Kirby is back to normal, what about Mutagen Man and Dr. Rockwell?

[drgon78]

Awesome episode.

-Fly Baxter is better then regular Baxter.
-April being immune to Mutagen.
-Kirby being cured...for now.
-April/Casey riding Kirby into battle.
-The return of mothman Mikey.
-Bradford still wanting to be cured.
-April user her psychic ability to locate her dad.
-Baxter saying he has plans for big/rhino mutants
-Flying Foot clan robots.
-Retro mutagen can be made but not easily.

[Jon_Talbain]

I did enjoy this episode. I was pretty shocked when April fell into the mutagen. Nick is really good at surprising people, even if it is only for a moment. Since Nick went out of their way to show Don's finger touch April's, I wasn't quite sure if she would become a mutant turtle or be immune to the mutagen. Like the others brought up, if it only took one drop to cure Kirby, they could have cured so many more mutants with just one vial.

I was wondering how Baxter would mutate, and it still was because of Shredder in this version too. His design is pretty disturbing and the vomit is as well. Talk about realistic, wow. And is Baxter already losing part of his mind? Why did he want to merge with April? That is disturbing in more ways than one.

[TurFlytle]

And is Baxter already losing part of his mind? Why did he want to merge with April? That is disturbing in more ways than one.

We'll call it Baxpril Stockfly Kraangy Thing...

[ObiWanFan4life]

Hmm, I liked it, but here's a few notes I took during the episode:

- Before mutating Stockman, Shredder tells him that he doesn't make idle threats, yet he does this constantly in the first season.

- What the Hell was up with them photo shopping Greg Cipes' head on mikey?

- Unnecessary Fly Baxter gross out scene is Unnecessary.

- Oh god, those stupid fly puns are back.

- So what is this, the 10th time that April has been abducted?

- How does nobody notice the huge aerial battle going on in the city streets?

- Donnie's victory dance seems out of character for him.

Other than that, I give it an 8/10. Entertaining but not perfect.

[drgon78]

Who says the one drop was enough to make it permanent. So you never know what will happen next.

[Donatello19]

Wow...amazing episode! I loved every minute of it, so much better than last week's.

First of all...Baxter made Ace Duck! :lol: and mentioned a pig and a rhino...foreshadowing B&R! I really did feel bad for Baxter at the beginning...but it is nice to see that Shredder is a no nonsense guy and a pretty dark villain.

I was on the edge of my seat when April fell into the mutagen. I really thought she was going to turn into Venus, as it took the liberty of specifically showing us that Don's hand was the last thing she touched before falling in...resulting in a female turtle..so I thought. She's immune to it, which just brings up even more questions about her origin. April was awesome in this episode, kicking stockman's a**, riding Kirby and pretty taking charge/being absolutely determined to get her father back.

Seeing Kirby acting as a vampire at the beginning was kinda creepy...but anyway, I really liked him in this episode. It was cool to see him actually helping the heroes and not just mindlessly screeching and trying to kill everyone.

Seeing Rahzar throughout the episode was cool, but no Fishface...

The retro mutagen...wow. I can't believe Don really did it, that really is a huge scientific breakthrough. The plot of the episode basically revolving around everyone going after the stuff just really worked and was entertaining to watch.

You could tell that Splinter kinda wanted to turn back...

I really thought that Kirby was going to stay a bat...I didn't think they'd get that last drop of retro mutagen after all...but that beings up somewhat of a...goof, if you will. In the beginning of the episode, Don says the vile of RM has enough to cure Kirby and Splinter, only two people. However, as you can see...it took ONE drop of the stuff to cure Kirby...so if that's the case...one vile could've cured many more mutants than just two. Unless Kirby staying human is just temporary.

Shredder at the end saying that he has one final mutant in mind...I wonder what he meant?

Funniest moment: When Leo told April and Casey to watch Kirby, and the three of them are just standing there pretty awkwardly...:lol:

Overall, great episode. I feel really bad for Baxter, but I'm happy that April is becoming even more of a kick a** character and that Kirby is back to normal. But most of all, I'm happy that there is now a way to cure mutants...I can't wait to see how the RM will be used in the future episodes. I give it a ten out of ten!

[Foot Soldier Clang]

I love Fly-Baxter's design. It's wonderfully disgusting :lol:. And even if April was kidnapped again, she sure fought back a lot more in this episode than in previous ones, and she took charge at the end as well. I do hope she's kidnapped much less often in the future. Can't we use Irma for that? :fshifty:

[fridaynightdestination]

I thought this was a fairly enjoyable episode, had some pretty cool stuff. It was nice to see April's dad turn human again and Baxter Fly was cool.

Also, did anyone get that commercial with Mikey saying all the cool things he can do with zipline? That was pretty funny :lol:

[Vicky82]

Wow, What a fantastic epiode, it was dark and so intence and the music was epic.

Baxter Fly is so creepy and disturbing more than Baxter Fly from the 80s toon.
He is disgusting too when he kept on spitting out acid like liquid and eating rubbish.

Foreshadow moment - When Baxter said about Mutanting a Pig and a Rhyno - Bebop and Rocksteady coming :D

Intence Moments
When the 1st vial smashed
April falling into the mutagen ( I actually shouted OMG and jumped out of my seat) but then it
turns out April is ok and immune to mutagen. I also thought at the time when Donnie was trying to save
April that he was going to fall in the Mutagen.
When the 2nd vial smashed but luckly some of it hit Kirby (but i'm wondering if it was actually enough to cure Kirby and is it permenant)
Thought Donny got hurt when fell into the dumpster but hiding in his shell saved him.

Good/Epic and Funny momments
Best quote from Splinter "I may not be human, but I am fortunate enough to still have my humanity."
Flying Foot Bots and Leo was riding on one of them
April calming Kirby Bat down and then they cuddle was cute.
April getting better at fighting
The final fight scene were they all trying to get the retro mutagen in the sky was awesome
Mikey was funny/bit annoying in this episode -Mikey's head changing :lol:,
Mikey trying to act serious before Raph pushes him out the way,
the return of Turflytle, calling Raph Maggot boy as his sidekick, :lol:
Mikey shouting out Buzz Buzz a lot got bit annoying.
Turtle fly symbol a reference to the Batman symbol from the 70s show
Casey Playing air guitar with a hockey stick.
Donnie getting kissed twice, loved his little dance and singing 'Bow Chicka Bow Bow' after the 2nd kiss he got from April,
looks like his rivalry with Casey over April isn't over.

Love these 2 pics of Donnie (warning big pics)

http://31.media.tumblr.com/50185748277831fbab07b23814d3beef/tumblr_n51sijHOgK1t2lgt4o10_1280.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/2e6f76b4b13a839e810055fe49779aab/tumblr_n51sijHOgK1t2lgt4o8_1280.jpg

[drgon78]

There is a cure but it takes 10 canisters of mutagen and like 10 months to make. I am glad they did it this way so it isn't so easy to undo mutations.

[MiBs]

Like the others brought up, if it only took one drop to cure Kirby

Who says the one drop was enough to make it permanent. So you never know what will happen next.

I thought the blanket would reveal that Kirby still had his bat body

[JTH]

The one drop of Retro-Mutagen was a bit of a stretch based on what was said.

But being it wasn't tested on any mutant before hand, I'll just go with it being a scientific theory than an actual fact.

[Donatello19]

Oh, I forgot to mention the Batman like Turflytle symbol. That was awesome :lol:

[CyberCubed]

I think we can safely write out Ace Duck from ever appearing in this show as Shredder thought he was stupid and he was referenced as a throwaway joke.

Just goes to show you everyone hates Ace Duck who works on a TMNT cartoon. :lol:

[JTH]

Anybody also notice when Donnie made the Retro Mutagen, they paid homage to other mutagens from previous TMNT incarnations.

The current blue mutagen was in the beaker, which Donnie then added a green liquid (Homage to the mutagen from the movies), which turned the Retro-Mutagen pink (The color of the mutagen in the 87' cartoon)

Was pretty cool.

[Knight_man]

My thoughts on kirby is the little bit of mutagen is really all that is needed. The splash is just for show by the creators. And maybe April's dna being the last thing he touched helped his retromutation.

[Vicky82]

I thought the blanket would reveal that Kirby still had his bat body

Yeah I thought that too, turns out he was nude under that blanket :lol:

[fridaynightdestination]

This episode raises the question, at least for me, what if Mikey does what Mikey does and spills the retro-mutagen.

BUT ON HIMSELF?

I mean, that's a creepy thought, if one of the turtles spilled the retro-mutagen on themselves.

And also, am I the only one who thought the Greg Cipes face part was funny? :lol:

[CyberCubed]

This episode raises the question, at least for me, what if Mikey does what Mikey does and spills the retro-mutagen.

BUT ON HIMSELF?

I mean, that's a creepy thought, if one of the turtles spilled the retro-mutagen on themselves.
:lol:

That's already been shown in past series. The Turtles would turn back into ordinary Turtles. Shredder and Krang tried to demutate the Turtles several times in the original cartoon.

[fridaynightdestination]

That's already been shown in past series. The Turtles would turn back into ordinary Turtles. Shredder and Krang tried to demutate the Turtles several times in the original cartoon.

I know. It's just creepy to think about. One thing that could make a good episode is if one of them does spill it on themselves, and the rest of them frantically try to get some mutagen to bring them back, but The Shredder finds out and the Foot ninja do everything in their power to make sure the DON'T get any mutagen. It could make a good season finale.

[NinjaPug]

Really liked the episode.

- I liked that Shredder intentionally mutated Baxter instead of it being an accident

- I'm glad the retro-mutagen is tough to make. I found it funny that they didn't even mention turning MM back to Timothy. I really liked that they had 3 parties chasing after the retro-mutagen - made for a good final act.

- Loved the nods to Bebop, Rocksteady and Ace Duck.

- Who is the final mutant that Shredder alluded to? Would he mutate Karai? I hope not. Himself?

[CyberCubed]

- Who is the final mutant that Shredder alluded to? Would he mutate Karai? I hope not. Himself?

Possible return of Super Shredder from the finale?

Since Shredder said, "a" mutant I don't think he was refering to Bebop/Rocksteady. Unless its another brand-new character created for this show.

[Overlordofnobodies]

Really liked the episode.

- I liked that Shredder intentionally mutated Baxter instead of it being an accident

- I'm glad the retro-mutagen is tough to make. I found it funny that they didn't even mention turning MM back to Timothy. I really liked that they had 3 parties chasing after the retro-mutagen - made for a good final act.

- Loved the nods to Bebop, Rocksteady and Ace Duck.

- Who is the final mutant that Shredder alluded to? Would he mutate Karai? I hope not. Himself?

That is what my money is on. Unlike other Shredders. This one is a bit damage and may not be as a good fight because of it. So having him becoming super Shredder at some point may not be to bad.:)

[blindturtle02]

I've been looking forward to this one all week and was not disappointed in the slightest. I was hoping April would be alright after falling into the mutagen. I expected as much due to the immunity to Kraangy substances, but was also preparing myself for some sort of mutation just in case. I mean, they had the retromutagen there and could have cured her if the need arose. Her coming out of the mutagen reminded me of that episode of Futurama where Lela emerges from the toxic waste unaffected and discovers she's a mutant rather than an alien.

Baxter was just all around creepy and I absolutely love his mutant form. He doesn't seem to be losing his mind as much as going insane. Loved the foreshadowing of Bebop and Rocksteady! And who the heck is this last mutant Shredder wants to create? I give this one a 10 out of 10 as well. Loved seeing a bunch of Rahzar throughout this episode. Have no idea if he was still nerfed or not. I thought he was pretty cool and held his own well.

Almost forgot, Baxter is sure a heck of allot more sinister as a fly than as a human. Loved the sound of his voice. Reminded me of how they made Jeff Goldblum sound in The Fly. Anyone remember the way he would breathe throughout the movie while slowly transforming? That's how Baxter's voice sounded. Hopefully we won't see him bite the big one. I'm betting he escapes and continues to bug both Shredder and the turtles for quite a while. With the show being picked up for a forth season, I'm sure we'll all be in for even more kick butt episodes such as this one. I, for one, can't wait for what's to come. Ciro and the crew never disappoint. Keep up the amazing work, guys.

[drgon78]

Yeah, I also loved the sound of Baxter's voice and it did remind of me of the OS version.

I would also like to know who this one mutant Shredder wants.

[Vicky82]

- Who is the final mutant that Shredder alluded to? Would he mutate Karai? I hope not. Himself?

That could be interesting if he mutates himself and becomes Super Shredder, I also wonder if it could be a part of the upcoming rumored Leo's 'Mirage Story' beat down.

[CowabungaMikey]

When Baxter was mentioning a rhino and a warthog at the beginning of the episode, combined with the new pictures we got, I was hoping to see Bebop and Rocksteady already.

Too bad! The episode itself was great, altough I'm still not a fan of this Casey Jones.

9.1/10

[blindturtle02]

That could be interesting if he mutates himself and becomes Super Shredder, I also wonder if it could be a part of the upcoming rumored Leo's 'Mirage Story' beat down.

I would love to see Super Shredder at some point! Mutagen is everywhere, and you know the thought has probably crossed his mind. Who better to beat down Leo than a beefed up Shredder? Although it might turn out to be Bebop or Rocksteady. Why'd they have to go and leave us in suspense again? I love all the speculation, however. But man, these weeks in-between episodes just go by so very slowly.

[JTH]

And for everyone that didn't know.

That 15 seconds of Donnie zipline swinging though New York was a better Spiderman than anything I saw in Amazing Spiderman 2. :lol:

[ticktack]

nuuuuuuu
don said eat it, like he had something to prove oTL
I'd like it to make a decent direction. Not have the impression of competition or something like that. One gave a sign of gratitude and be jerk about it to another with making him bad
April is the helpless between the boys(really those genderal things doesn't matter to me but I'll go mention anyway), tried something. Hm how make her useful and surviving in that position. Hey, she's unfortunate and falls into mutagen and ta-da is immune lololol, she directs the turtles to some way by her jkh?gsdgh?mgd power :lol:.
the rest is, well, good
I never liked Stockman to a fly parts and in OT too, and I've never mentioned these in this forum before. I wouldn't have mind if he stood human, but then... And humiliation/disrespect is there still, didn't went anywhere.
So Don is now worried about Kirby in the end of the episode(and was of course) but with April was more concerned about how to make sure he[the Case-dude] feels bad and all that dancing and singing. I sure want this crush be independent thing without competition, comparing, I kind of see this as a fandom shipping effect, no I don't want it, prefer more to have thought out writing than the way like how the shippers may act about it. Sorry, not trying to blame anyone, it's just I try to suppose things.

[OrangeNinja1987]

Amazing episode, all the way through.
The beginning was amazing, very creepy, and with references to Bebop and Rocksteady. I can't wait to see them in this show, and I wonder if they'll be a bit more threatening than in the OT. That would be awesome to see.
Donatello dancing when he got kissed was funny and my favorite funny moment was when Leo said, "Baxter, we don't want to hurt you," and then Casey threw something at Baxter, and Leo added, "Well, Casey does."
I was surprised Donnie finished the retro-mutagen in this episode. I was expecting it to take a bit longer, but the chase for the retro-mutagen made for a great episode.
I think Kirby's retro-mutation is temporary, because it was only one drop and they supposedly needed the whole canister to change him back.
I was shocked when April fell in the mutagen. I'm really glad that she wasn't affected. :D
I also think it would make for an amazing episode sometime, if one of the turtles spilt retro-mutagen on himself and his brothers had to run around the city trying to find more mutagen to turn him back, and Shredder was doing his best to prevent them. That would be very exciting of an episode.

[Jon_Talbain]

We'll call it Baxpril Stockfly Kraangy Thing...

That would have been nightmare fuel lol. But since April is immune, I wonder what would have happened if Baxter dived into that mutagen.

I thought the blanket would reveal that Kirby still had his bat body

That would have been really weird, but cool. I thought that he was going to turn into a more stable mutant, with his human mind.

[BabyTurtles]

it was cool....but I had some problems


-April being immune to the mutagen....well it looks like Kirby's sacrifice was in vain....and nobody brought that up.
-April getting captured again......if she keeps this up she can start competing with 80's April.
-no mention of Tim AT ALL.....is he dead?
-Raph and Mikey pushed to the side...again.
-Mikey's moth suit. ugh.
-wasting Splinter's thoughts on becoming human again on this episode (we could of had the boys worried about him leaving or something....more emotion would have been nice)
- also only ONE drop was able to cure Kirby.....Donnie could have cured ALL the mutants with those 2 retro-mutagen canisters...


Baxtar's mutation was sad....I felt really bad for him. At least the turtles' were cool enough to offer help, I honestly didn't expect that.

all I ask is...PLEASE keep Kirby safe from now on! No more Damsel Kirby!

[ObiWanFan4life]

it was cool....but I had some problems


-April being immune to the mutagen....well it looks like Kirby's sacrifice was in vain....and nobody brought that up.
-April getting captured again......if she keeps this up she can start competing with 80's April.
-no mention of Tim AT ALL.....is he dead?
-Raph and Mikey pushed to the side...again.
-Mikey's moth suit. ugh.
-wasting Splinter's thoughts on becoming human again on this episode (we could of had the boys worried about him leaving or something....more emotion would have been nice)


Baxtar's mutation was sad....I felt really bad for him. At least the turtles' were cool enough to offer help, I honestly didn't expect that.

all I ask is...PLEASE keep Kirby safe from now on! No more Damsel Kirby!

Also, how did no one notice the big aerial battle going on at the end?

[BabyTurtles]

Also, how did no one notice the big aerial battle going on at the end?

sigh....CGI limitations.....T^T

[ObiWanFan4life]

sigh....CGI limitations.....T^T

Ok, that's a bit of a nitpick, but you get the point.

[MikeandRaph87]

References to Bebop and Rocksteady! Ace Duck get a five second cameo just like the '87 cartoon. Hope to see the character actually used and it would be the opportunity to do it!

Baxter was probably the first one mutated on purpose.

[nimajneb]

What a great episode, compared to last week's offering, which I really struggled with.
It was good to see Baxter still in the necklace and looking really scared with it.
And a scheming Shredder too, with Rahzar in full lieutenant mode.
I also really like Mikey in his tur-fly-tle costume buzz buzz,
Loved this episode 10/10 for me
Action, strong plot advancing story arc and comedy.
Can't ask for more,

[kelligrafie]

I know. It's just creepy to think about. One thing that could make a good episode is if one of them does spill it on themselves, and the rest of them frantically try to get some mutagen to bring them back, but The Shredder finds out and the Foot ninja do everything in their power to make sure the DON'T get any mutagen. It could make a good season finale.

There's a few issues with this, provided you stick with proper continuity.

In order to re-mutate the turtle into the exact same human-turtle form, you would require the exact same human DNA.

Now assuming the last human to touch the turtles prior original mutation WAS Splinter (could've been the pet shop owner, but we'll say it was Splinter) - they would use his DNA.

But wait. Splinter's no longer human. He's a mutant. His DNA is combined rat with human. So unless Donnie could seperate enough human DNA strands in order to complete the turtle re-mutation, they would have to de-mutate Splinter back to human form to gain and use the pure human DNA.

Otherwise you could end up with a completely different ninja turtle.

And you can't do that in a 20 minute episode! You'd have to make a proper storyline out it.

[TurtleTitan97]

Awesome episode, really dug BaxterFly. Honestly thought Kirby wasn't going to be de-mutated in this episode, so that was a surprise. Also loved the reference to Ace Duck and Bebop & Rocksteady.
Also, great to see Casey in action again.

[Vicky82]

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/05/04/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-lonely-mutation-of-baxter-stockman-review

Wow IGN only gave it 8.0 :teek:

I'm surprised by this, should of been 8.5 or higher.

[Asha]

Funny April mutation fake out was funny considering people were talking about her similarities to Venus over a week ago.

Since April was the key to stabilizing the mutagen ( why that try to harvest her DNA) than what's the mutagen for?

[JTH]

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/05/04/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-lonely-mutation-of-baxter-stockman-review

Wow IGN only gave it 8.0 :teek:

I'm surprised by this, should of been 8.5 or higher.
And of course, Max thinks we already knew April was immune to mutagen.

Which was never the case. :roll:

Then again you never know, Max also gave Slash & Destroy an 8.0. Max seems a little inconsistent.

[ObiWanFan4life]

And of course, Max thinks we already knew April was immune to mutagen.

Which was never the case. :roll:

How about wheb that acid touched her and didn't hurt her in the slightest.

[Asha]

Donnie probable going to be the new target of other mutants.

[Ninjinister]

I'm still amazed that people continue to care what IGN thinks.

[Vicky82]

How about wheb that acid touched her and didn't hurt her in the slightest.

Are you talking about the Kranng water from the episode Karai's Vendetta, that wasn't mutagen so it was different. I think there was discussion the other day wondering if Mutagen would of effect her and today we found out.

[JTH]

How about wheb that acid touched her and didn't hurt her in the slightest.
That's the thing.

We know about that, but people keep thinking that was mutagen for some reason.

Which I don't understand, that scene in that episode doesn't seem very hard to forget.

[tmntmikey23]

cool episode i like how Baxter is a fly and he is more tougher and cant wait for a figure for him :D i not a fan of how Donnie likes April to much. i was fine with it when the show started but now i feel like he cares more about her then he's family i no he offered splinter to become a human first but how i seemed it i feel he cared more about kirby and April :D

[Vicky82]

And of course, Max thinks we already knew April was immune to mutagen.

Which was never the case. :roll:

Then again you never know, Max also gave Slash & Destroy an 8.0. Max seems a little inconsistent.

I Saw this on the IGN comments

TMNTFAN88 • an hour ago
@maxnicholson -- April never touched mutagen in season 1! It was Kraang water, which was like acid... remember? It melted stuff, not mutated stuff! And a few points less for little fighting? C'mon there was SO MUCH ACTION! this was one of the best eps of season 2!

MaxNicholson > TMNTFAN88 • 5 minutes ago
Right, but her Kraang DNA, which we learned about earlier this season, basically confirmed her immunity to mutagen (that in combination with the Kraang water, which DID contain trace amounts of Kraang chemicals). Just because nobody said it out loud doesn't mean that we can't draw the logical conclusion.


JTH1 > MaxNicholson • a minute ago
No it doesn't.
It confirms she was a key to possibly creating a retro-mutagen, but still nothing more.
Donnie needing an entire vile of retro-mutagen for one does logically would mean that one drop of it wouldn't cure Mr. O'Neil right?
People using logic, is often how you get the swerve job pulled on you.

[TurFlytle]

Baxter was probably the first one mutated on purpose.

*cough* Timothy *cough*

[JTH]

I Saw this on the IGN comments

TMNTFAN88 • an hour ago
@maxnicholson -- April never touched mutagen in season 1! It was Kraang water, which was like acid... remember? It melted stuff, not mutated stuff! And a few points less for little fighting? C'mon there was SO MUCH ACTION! this was one of the best eps of season 2!

MaxNicholson > TMNTFAN88 • 5 minutes ago
Right, but her Kraang DNA, which we learned about earlier this season, basically confirmed her immunity to mutagen (that in combination with the Kraang water, which DID contain trace amounts of Kraang chemicals). Just because nobody said it out loud doesn't mean that we can't draw the logical conclusion.


JTH1 > MaxNicholson • a minute ago
No it doesn't.
It confirms she was a key to possibly creating a retro-mutagen, but still nothing more.
Donnie needing an entire vile of retro-mutagen for one does logically would mean that one drop of it wouldn't cure Mr. O'Neil right?
People using logic, is often how you get the swerve job pulled on you.
Well, I was going to promote myself, but you did me just fine. :D

[Vicky82]

Well, I was going to promote myself, but you did me just fine. :D

Oops! didn't notice that was you :D.

[Chaotix12345]

Great episode. Baxter Fly is fittingly grotesque and I loved the nod to Ace Duck (Cameoing like a boss as usual. XD) and foreshadowing to Bebop and Rocksteady. Glad to see Kirby back to normal as well. Kinda figured that at least he would, as otherwise, finishing the retromutagen in this ep would've been kinda pointless. Looking forward to seeing what mutant Shredder's referring to at the end.

Also, since Tur-Fly-Tle seems to be a recurring super identity, is anyone else itching for fanart of him, Turtle Titan, Nightwatcher, and Dark Turtle together? :lol:

[JTH]

I Saw this on the IGN comments

TMNTFAN88 • an hour ago
@maxnicholson -- April never touched mutagen in season 1! It was Kraang water, which was like acid... remember? It melted stuff, not mutated stuff! And a few points less for little fighting? C'mon there was SO MUCH ACTION! this was one of the best eps of season 2!

MaxNicholson > TMNTFAN88 • 5 minutes ago
Right, but her Kraang DNA, which we learned about earlier this season, basically confirmed her immunity to mutagen (that in combination with the Kraang water, which DID contain trace amounts of Kraang chemicals). Just because nobody said it out loud doesn't mean that we can't draw the logical conclusion.


JTH1 > MaxNicholson • a minute ago
No it doesn't.
It confirms she was a key to possibly creating a retro-mutagen, but still nothing more.
Donnie needing an entire vile of retro-mutagen for one does logically would mean that one drop of it wouldn't cure Mr. O'Neil right?
People using logic, is often how you get the swerve job pulled on you.
I'll add on to it:

JTH1 > MaxNicholson • 15 minutes ago
No it doesn't.

It confirms she was a key to possibly creating a retro-mutagen, but still nothing more.

Donnie needing an entire vile of retro-mutagen for one dose logically would mean that one drop of it wouldn't cure Mr. O'Neil right?

People using logic, is often how you get the swerve job pulled on you.


Geordi_La_Forgery > JTH1 • 7 minutes ago
The vile was probably Donnie's best estimation of how much retromutagen it would take to cure Mr. O'Neil.


MaxNicholson > JTH1 • 11 minutes ago
That's different from compiling almost two seasons' worth of evidence and applying reason to it.


JTH1 > MaxNicholson • 5 minutes ago
Perhaps.

But we can also use the same two seasons of evidence to predict what will happen with Karai.

But I still don't think anyone can make a pinpoint prediction of what will happen, despite obvious assumptions.

I just always keep in mind for myself is guilty of this. "The easiest people to trick are the people that think they know what's coming."


MaxNicholson > JTH1 • 2 minutes ago
True enough and well said. Luckily, my obvious assumption was correct. Thus, for me, this scene didn't call for such gravitas.

[Krang100]

In the begining of the episode, is really cool to see Ace Duck, it was funny the way Ace Duck was showed. I feel bad for Baxter Fly, the character turned a lot more dark when he turned into a fly, he is no longer a comic relief character, the only funny is when he crashed with the sign.

Is too bad that Stockman is dragged into Shredder's lair and now call him "master" (like his 87's, 2003's counterpart), this time Stockman is a lot more animalistic, a least as a human can think with clarity. The episode shows he has no chance to turned against Shredder and his minions, and worse, not even to get away to sever with him, a least his counterpart has a chance to rid of him. This Baxter turned from bad to worse.

[TurFlytle]

In the begining of the episode, is really cool to see Ace Duck, it was funny the way Ace Duck was showed. I feel bad for Baxter Fly, the character turned a lot more dark when he turned into a fly, he is no longer a comic relief character, the only funny is when he crashed with the sign.

Is too bad that Stockman is dragged into Shredder's lair and now call him "master" (like his 87's, 2003's counterpart), this time Stockman is a lot more animalistic, a least as a human can think with clarity. The episode shows he has no chance to turned against Shredder and his minions, and worse, not even to get away to sever with him, a least his counterpart has a chance to rid of him. This Baxter turned from bad to worse.

Baxter is always treated like crap by the Foot in every incarnation and I feel sorry for him. I hope he turns back to normal. In every series, he always stays the way he is and I hope this is an exception. The episode title just shows how Baxter is now. :(

[Luckyday]

Donnie probable going to be the new target of other mutants.

Maybe that how we'll get to meet Mona Lisa and the others instead of going through a origin story episode for each one.

[BabyTurtles]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

[JTH]

Black Nerd Review: "The Return of Smooth Donatello"
D2ka_ufECBY

[The Turtle Terminator]

Great episode. Finally an excuse for an updated and/or discontinued Kirby Bat. Welcome back Kirby:tgrin:

[Vicky82]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

Yeah I noticed that, pretty disturbing how she was tied up. :o

[BubblyShell22]

This episode was all kinds of awesome! Cameo of Ace Duck, foreshadowing of Bebop and Rocksteady, Baxter's mutation was sick, too. I also liked how Kirby got cured, and I really hope this is the end of torturing Kirby. Come on, the guy's had enough already! No more for him! Torture someone else if you have to! Loved the chase scene for the RM. I'm also surprised they didn't mention Timothy, but I think they were more concerned with getting Kirby back. I'm sure they won't forget him. Also glad to see that though Splinter longs to be human, he realizes that his family is more important and that he needs to stay with the Turtles. That was so cool. Also curious about this other mutant, too. Who is it?

Overall, a pretty wicked ep. Can't wait for next week for sure.

[TigerClaw]

Finally saw this episode, Thought it was pretty good.

So April can't be mutated cause shes half human half Kraang.

I liked how Donnie looks at Casey Jones, rubbing in his face, That he got kissed by April, twice in 1 day.

[AT-Man]

It took just one drop of the retro mutagen to change Kirby, after all. So they could have changed hundreds of mutants with the two vials. I hoped first that only Kirby's head got changed and the rest of him stayed bat, but no dice. Otherwise pretty good episode.

btw why is there no poll?

[Lightjump]

I like how many tiny actual fly things there were, like the multiple images in his eyes and the throwing up acid on his food to digest it. It was a fun ep. with great little nods from the old show and some new stuff. But, are the Kraang immune to the mutagen, because April is and that's just confusing if they aren't. But I really did like Stockman, though apparently Rahzar can hear through walls now :lol:

[Retro-Specs]

Amazing ep, and I love what they did with Baxter. His movements and inflections were great, and could make him a fun character to work with.

Now I'm super-curious - just who is Shredder intending to mutate, and into what? Must be a character we know already. He could be referring to himself, but I have the feeling this Shredder would not take such a risk, and is confident enough in his own abilities than to change himself. Personally I think it'll be Karai, since he's seeing that she hasn't been very loyal lately. He'd likely think that she'd be more useful and more obedient as a mutant. So he can control her better, being half animal, like a dog or cat to hunt down a rat.

Or he could be using one of the Purple Dragons or something... but who could could he be mutating them into? Could we be seeing another character from the past coming back?

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Thought it was interesting, when Donnie only had two current vials of retro mutagen, they were automatically assigned to Kirby and Splinter (who hasn't really be complaining about his appearance and seems used to being a rat), instead of Timothy, who Don has been working on forever and feels somewhat responsible for.

Overall, good episode, better than last weeks. I'll post all my thoughts later.

[Rukitron]

Personally I think it'll be Karai, since he's seeing that she hasn't been very loyal lately. He'd likely think that she'd be more useful and more obedient as a mutant. So he can control her better, being half animal, like a dog or cat to hunt down a rat.

Or he could be using one of the Purple Dragons or something... but who could could he be mutating them into? Could we be seeing another character from the past coming back?

Cat- he has Tigerclaw
Dog - he has Dogpound
Fish - he has Fishface
therefore rule of pet shop wackiness she'll be mutated as some sort of predatory bird or a canary since Splinter is the mouse/rat.

[The Sports Warrior]

For me, this whole episode was all about Ace Duck.

[Metalwolf]

Great episode! I easily give this one a 10/10

Love how Bradford (as someone mentioned earlier) was in full on lieutenant mode and how determined he was to get that retromutagen. It really made him look badass, plus it showed that even though he has a powerful second mutation, he still wants to be human again. And I laughed when Baxter was about to say to Bradford "But you're now twice the do- I mean man, then you used to be!" Oh Baxter, you crack me up, you were about to call him 'dog' to his face, weren't you :lol:


And BaxterFly. Woah. He is awesome and scary and he can hold his own if he has to. Gosh, this version is the best of them all. Seriously. :o

I just loved everything about this episode. Everything.

@Blindturtle02-

I'm wondering too if Bradford's still nerfed. To me he looked much more assertive and dangerous in this episode, and looked very much like he was acting a lot more high ranking then submissive, especially with him walking around with Shredder like that. I'm guessing with Tigerclaw missing and Karai demoted he is the acting second in command, although I wonder how he'll act once Tigerclaw returns.

I'm strongly betting the 'One more mutant' is Bebop and Rocksteady, but he doesn't want to say 'Two mutants" for some reason. I'm wondering if that is because he wants to keep it a secret?

[Klunk1234]

That was a great episode, but it was getting on to my nerves when the boys were trying to recover the retro mutagen from Baxter Stockman, the robot foot soldier and Rahazar( formely known as Dogpound and Bradford). At last, Mr. O'Neil got cured. Donnie can do the same with the Pulverizer since he promise to cure him and Dr. Rockwell.

I want to see more action from the Shredder, instead of him depending on the mutants villains. Baxter Stockman's mutation is gross and Donnie hiding into his shell gave me nervous. The 2003 turtles never do that since they are mutated. Mikey was annoying in this episode in my opinion.

[blindturtle02]

Yeah, Metalwolf I'm hoping it's Bebop and Rocksteady as well. Really wanting Karai to stay human. If they do introduce Mona Lisa, I hope it's April's mom somewhere down the road. Still hoping she's voiced by Pat Musick, but the odds of that happening are approximately 725,000 to 1! Well, it's Star Wars day, so I had to throw an Empire reference in there.

Klunk, been wanting to see more Shredder action as well. Although it's even more amazing when he decides to get his hands dirty.

[Warhorse]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

Didn't see the episode, but those screen caps, yeah, that is a little bit out of place for a kid's show. What were the animators thinking? This is just about as bad when in the OT, April was tied up, and I can't remember what Turtle it was, but when he removed the ropes from her chest, her boobs literally bust out and flop for a second.

[pannoni1]

That was a great episode, but it was getting on to my nerves when the boys were trying to recover the retro mutagen from Baxter Stockman, the robot foot soldier and Rahazar( formely known as Dogpound and Bradford).

I disagree. That was the climax of the whole episode since you never know what was going to happen. Would Baxter return to normal? Would Rahzar become Chris Bradford? Would the mutagen all go to waste? Would the Turtles use some for Splinter yet forget to change Kirby back? This turned out to have a similar message to Shreddered & Splintered, though explained more clearly that Splinter doesn't have a purpose to be Hamato Yoshi again as long as he has the Turtles.

This episode was one of the best the series has to offer. Yes, we don't get as graphic of a Baxter mutation as we did in the OT, but to have it happen so quickly early in the episode and in a more creepy matter along with Shredder instead of Kra(a)ng executing it gives it a different perspective. In addition to resolving Kirby's mutation, we get a classic April DID moment that not only involves flying away, getting tied up, and being lowered into a mutagen vat which all happened in the OT, but actually have April fall into the pit. During that second commercial break many were all wondering that April would turn into that ugly Derp thingy that I hate. But then understanding you can't retromutate somebody that is already human, it turned out fine if you knew the back story. The flying action scenes were well presented, and I especially liked the flying Foot Soldiers. And thanks Raph for pointing out that Mikey's "Buzz Buzz" is annoying. Leo didn't get as much spotlight as the other three, but that's typical for being the straight guy. On the side, good hit by Casey after Don gets excited about being kissed twice to add to the relationship drama. And I sure wonder what that final mutant Baxter will create.

Overall: 9/10

[Donny's computer84]

This was a cool episode, I'd like to see Donny turn ice cream kitty back to normal so he can be Klunk. :D

[TurtleTitan97]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

Whoa, dat April...

[victory_angel]

Here's my Initial thoughts on the episode http://tmntreviews.blogspot.com/2014/05/initial-thoughts-of-lonely-mutation-of.html

[Electric]

Loved this episode. Right up there with target April o Neil.


Probably my favorite thing was the new fight music, just incredible.

Good April fight scenes, good Casey scenes (starting to show his lack of intelligence, but also his Brutish nature) and retro mutagen!

[cryan]

Caught the last part of the episode. Very cool. I like how Baxter still had his personality even when mutated. The fact they cured Mr. O' Neil was also great.

[CyberCubed]

Probably my favorite thing was the new fight music, just incredible.en!

I'm glad you brought this up as I don't think anyone else did. The music during the fight scenes were new and different in this episode, like when April was fighting Baxter.

Nice to hear new music added to the show.

[AT-Man]

Does anybody else get a Tom of Finland vibe of this picture?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Harmophious/aceduck_zps4dadc3d9.jpg vs http://instinctmagazine.com/sites/instinctmagazine.com/files/images/blog_posts/Jonathan%20Higbee/2013/10/31/insidetomoffinland.jpg


I hope that's what they were going for. :tlol:

[Electric]

I'm glad you brought this up as I don't think anyone else did. The music during the fight scenes were new and different in this episode, like when April was fighting Baxter.

Nice to hear new music added to the show.

It's something different, and I'm not saying the previous fight songs were getting old, just that the new one adds some breaks from it, without losing any of the epic-ness

[Warhorse]

Now I'm super-curious - just who is Shredder intending to mutate, and into what? Must be a character we know already. He could be referring to himself, but I have the feeling this Shredder would not take such a risk, and is confident enough in his own abilities than to change himself. Personally I think it'll be Karai, since he's seeing that she hasn't been very loyal lately. He'd likely think that she'd be more useful and more obedient as a mutant. So he can control her better, being half animal, like a dog or cat to hunt down a rat.


Heh, now that you mentioned it. This series likes to take incidents from other series, and just mix it up some. In the OT, April was a half human half cat for an episode, and so it's possible that Shredder might turn Karai into a half cat, to torture Splinter some more.

[DarthEmpress]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

Seeing a minor tied up in a ball tie position was disturbing and unnecessary >__> I'd like to know who animated April during that scene and what was going on in their mind...

Regardless, I really liked this episode. It was great seeing April set up to save her dad, although I wonder - why could one single drop turn him human again if Donnie said he only had enough retromutagen for TWO doses????

[CyberCubed]

I think you guys are seeing things that aren't there. Remember the target audience for the show is 5-10 year old kids, they're not thinking of April in bondage.

I mean how else is April going to be tied up over a vat of mutagen? The only other way is if her hands were tied at the top and she was straight dangling down.

[BabyTurtles]

I think you guys are seeing things that aren't there. Remember the target audience for the show is 5-10 year old kids, they're not thinking of April in bondage.

I mean how else is April going to be tied up over a vat of mutagen? The only other way is if her hands were tied at the top and she was straight dangling down.

that would have worked.....or she could have been tied like Leo was when he got captured.

[bridgegrn]

I loved all of the references to the 1986 version of The Fly. We were just watching that in class this past week.

[turtle1237]

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....

Saw it today, didnt notice until you pointed it out. Not sure what to think expect new teen April never had a BIG butt, but here, it seem her rear double in size or something.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

WOW! What an episode! Not only do we get Baxter as a fly now and not only did we get to see the Retromutagen pay off but we even got to see Ace Duck! Does anyone else think Donnie might use the next batch to fix Mutagen Man? I seriously was almost in shock that they let April fall in. I thought they were gonna make her in to a turtle. Also when Donnie told Casey to "Eat it! Eat IT!" I really laughed hard and I'm not even a fan of the Donnie/April thing. I also like Baxter's understated design as well. I think his wings might actually be seizure inducing for people with epilepsy. LOL. Really awesome episode for me. IGN said they felt it lacked action sequences but I totally disagree with that.

[Wildcat]

April in bondage is just you guys over thinking it. Besides its not like fans have not made or thought worse. You know who you are :lol:

Glad a warthog and rhino were mentioned. Hope that confirms Bebop and Rocksteady. Didnt really like that Kirby could be cured by just a drop of retro mutagen. The whole episode they made it clear that they needed the whole tube for one person.

Also April being immune to the ooze is just ugh...I know, her Kraang connection but Don says thats why the retro works but this was barely discovered. Surely he did something to the ooze before through his own testing...not just mix DNA with mutagen. His formula was more then that.

Would have been awesome if she actually mutated.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Really liked the episode.

- I liked that Shredder intentionally mutated Baxter instead of it being an accident

- I'm glad the retro-mutagen is tough to make. I found it funny that they didn't even mention turning MM back to Timothy. I really liked that they had 3 parties chasing after the retro-mutagen - made for a good final act.

- Loved the nods to Bebop, Rocksteady and Ace Duck.

- Who is the final mutant that Shredder alluded to? Would he mutate Karai? I hope not. Himself?

I initially thought he was talking about himself. Who can say for sure though?

[turtle1237]

April in bondage is just over thinking it. Besides its not like fans haven't made or thought worse. You know who you are :lol:

Im really glad a warthog and rhino were mentioned. Hope that confirms Bebop and Rocksteady.

Didnt really like that Kirby could be cured by just a drop of retro mutagen. The whole episode they made it clear that they needed the whole tube for one person.

Well its not because April is tied up that gets people over thinking, its more that she is bend over with her rear covering most of the screen and with high detail of the shape of her butt that gets people over thinking. :lol:

That Kirby getting cured by just a drop did bugged me though, Don made it pretty clear that he only had plenty of retro mutagen for Kirby and Splinter. If it can cured people with drops, than Donny can pretty much cured every one who's lives were ruin by getting turn into Monkeys or Spiders or even weed plants.

Glad Kirby got cured, but knowing a few drops can do it, than There really was no reason over the brawl for it, every one could share. Well Villians dont like to share, but you get the point.

[Chris_a_Bunga]

What a great/ fun episode. I really dug it, and I saw it mentioned before, but I wanted to say I thought the score in this episode was awesome, it really made me think of Dawn and Day of the Dead (originals of course), it has this fun horror vibe to it. Loved it. I definitely want to see more Baxter Fly. :tgrin:

[BabyTurtles]

Glad Kirby got cured, but knowing a few drops can do it, than There really was no reason over the brawl for it, every one could share. Well Villians dont like to share, but you get the point.

heck Donnie could have just sprinkled a little on Baxter while he was causing a fuss, would have been back to normal in no time.

but he probably didn't know....but now that he does...(And I'm hoping he remembers it only takes a little) hopefully the next batch of retro-mutagen he makes will be enough for everyone.

and maybe we can put an end to this mutation hysteria XD

it kinda sucks that April was immune to the mutagen....which caused Kirby to mutant from protecting her....which caused Donnie to use his last retro-mutagen to cure him.....XD.......if only Mikey accidentally spilled a little mutagen on April in the beggining, all of this could have been avoided lol

[Ninja Tiptup]

Maybe Donatello thinks Timothy can't be revived from his frozen state (at least yet). Otherwise, way to turn your back on him when you found a cure Donnie. They should really help Malachi and some others while they're at it.

So April is immune to mutagen and because of that she is the key to retro-mutagen. Go figure.

Glad we didn't have to watch Baxter mutate but that sure was intense when the mutagen collar started breaking.

Fly Baxter vomiting makes sense but it's totally gross.

Baxter should have listened to the turtles. With that much mutagen, Donnie could whip up plenty of retro-mutagen.

I do wonder what would have happened if Baxter or one of the turtles fell in the mutagen with April give April is immune to the mutagen.

Since that stuff usually starting working and absorbing it does beg the question how much mutagen stings the eyes and other sensitive areas when it comes in contact.

I guess Bradford still would like to be human but I wonder if the double-dunk means he can't be.

They just had to have Turtlefly vs. Baxter, brilliant!

Foreshadowing for Bebop and Rocksteady and I got a good laugh out of Ace Duck.

I'm surprised the cure actually worked. I kept expecting Baxter to try using it with no results or even worse results. The question is how long will the cure work? Is it actually permanent. Besides that the cure seems more nonsensical than the cause but I must admit I like that they can undo mutations, they just made it difficult to make more of the cure.

[The Turtle Terminator]

Quick thought. If I remember correctly, at the end of the episode, Shredder said something about more mutant experiments to BaxterFly. In theory, could these mutants be Bebop & Rocksteady?

[drgon78]

Actually he said he wants Baxter to create one more mutant.

[blindturtle02]

One more mutant, Shredder says. I've been trying to look up natural predators of turtles. Frogs came up, and so did snakes. Scaletail would rock, but I was hoping they'd stick with his alien bounty hunter roots. I was thinking we would get to see B and R before s2 is over, but not too sure about that. Wondering if this next mutant will be an original 2012 character.

[turtle1237]

Quick thought. If I remember correctly, at the end of the episode, Shredder said something about more mutant experiments to BaxterFly. In theory, could these mutants be Bebop & Rocksteady?

Would loved it if Bebop and Rocksteady show up, But Shredder did say one more mutant though, and I think we all know who may be the subject.

We may be wrong, I hope I am wrong.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

I feel like it's maybe a bit unfair to criticize the ep because the mutagen cured him in just one drop. If you think about it Donnie was really just acting on a theory anyway. I mean anytime there's some new technology people figure out more efficient ways to use it and now maybe Donnie has realized that he doesn't have to have such large quantities. However, it only took a drop in his lab so I can see both sides. Maybe since there was such a small amount of cells on his microscope he might have thought he would need more for a full sized mutant. Man I am being really dissecting for something that happened in a "kids" show. LOL.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Heh, now that you mentioned it. This series likes to take incidents from other series, and just mix it up some. In the OT, April was a half human half cat for an episode, and so it's possible that Shredder might turn Karai into a half cat, to torture Splinter some more.

Yeah I had been thinking that Shredder must either want to mutate himself or Karai but it makes more sense for him to want to mutate Karai because that would be extremely evil. To make her a cat would be the worst.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Another plus of this episode is that now maybe all of our Kirby Bat figures will become ultra rare since he's now a man again. LOL.

[bridgegrn]

I'm assuming the final mutant Shredder wants will be one that will turn him into the shows version of Super Shredder.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

I'm assuming the final mutant Shredder wants will be one that will turn him into the shows version of Super Shredder.

I initially thought that but now I think he's talking about mutating Karai to absolutely do the most evil thing imaginable to Splinter. He just has the greatest motive to mutate Karai I think.

[Jon_Talbain]

I am still wondering about Kirby and his mutation. When he was a mutant, he seemed to have some of his memories or at least knew April was someone he loved. But when he turned back human, he didn't remember anything while being a mutant? So ever since he mutated, it was just a blank state?

In "Metalhead Rewired" Donatello even called him Mr. O'Neil and it was like he understood. So that just makes it even more confusing to me.

[VaughnMichael]

Does anybody else get a Tom of Finland vibe of this picture?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Harmophious/aceduck_zps4dadc3d9.jpg vs http://instinctmagazine.com/sites/instinctmagazine.com/files/images/blog_posts/Jonathan%20Higbee/2013/10/31/insidetomoffinland.jpg


I hope that's what they were going for. :tlol:

I can see that or old porn stars lol:lol:
I don't think most people around here would get that though.

[JH24]

And we're back to being dark again. Not one of my favorites and probably not an episode I'll rewatch again.

Had some good developments, and I loved the bit with Donnie gloating to Casey.


I feel sorry for Baxter though, its not quite the levels of the '03 series but he suffers quite some abuse.

[Gimme_Three]

great episode. baxterfly is very interesting, I love the way the have him talking and his sudden movements. I hope he retains his intelligence he feels like a bigger threat now.

[Punker Don]

Overall, I really liked the episode. It had some great action sequences and a lot of surprisingly tense moments. The intro to this episode really made me gasp. I'm really liking the direction they're taking Baxter-fly. I'm wondering if he will gradually start loosing his mind like he did in the 80s toon. There was also some short but emotional scenes, like Splinter willing to give up his shot at humanity in exchange for Kirby's. I love little touches like that.
Loved the little 80s nods at the beginning, especially the Ace Duck cameo. That made me laugh. Also like the forshadowing of Bebop & Rocksteady.

There were a few things that, while not ruining the episode, did feel a little rushed or lazy. The biggest one, as many have mentioned, is the retro-mutagen. First, Donny makes a big deal over how difficult it is to make it, saying it takes 10 canisters of regular mutagen to make one of retro. Yet Baxter's lab has an HUGH TANK FULL OF THE STUFF! When you think about it, everyone's problems could have been solved by simply explaining the situation. I know Baxter wasn't in the best state of mind, but I think had the Turtles explained it to him, they could have created more than enough retro-mutagen to cure him, Rahzar, Kirby, Splinter, and every other mutant in the city.
Secondly, if one drop was enough to de-mutate someone, why didn't they just carry some in an eyedropper or a small vile that could be tuck inside their belts instead of a giant syringe? Also, why did it need to be a syringe? Every time someone has been mutated, it's been through skin contact. Why would they need to inject it into somebody?

TL;DR: Really good episode, but some lazy writing with the retro-mutagen.

[Electric]

So shredder wants one more mutant...and we've gotten all the teased ones already, so the next ones something new. Now we get an email talking about a mutated Karai...I'm honestly thinking the last mutant is Karai.

[nimajneb]

I think we're going to see it be the newtralizer as we know he's coming don't we? But he's meant to be fighting for the good guys isn't he?

However, in another thread we've seen designs for the Nick versions of Bebop and Rocksteady, and Bebop is a similar build to Fong from the PD's, so perhaps being his bungling and deceptive self maybe Baxterfly creates them anyway as they're meant to appear imminently,
That's just me thinking aloud but whatever Nick do I'm sure they'll score a winner

[Ninjinister]

I think we're going to see it be the newtralizer as we know he's coming don't we? But he's meant to be fighting for the good guys isn't he?


Newtralizer's already been in an episode so he can't be the "one more mutant" for Baxter to make for Shredder. Also he's partnered up with Slash so no, definitely not a good guy at this point.

[plastroncafe]

No where near my favorite episode. It seems like the "Mikey Test" grader might have been off his game.

The Donnie/April/Casey thing continues, much to my dismay.
Maybe I expect too much of this show.

[nimajneb]

Newtralizer's already been in an episode so he can't be the "one more mutant" for Baxter to make for Shredder. Also he's partnered up with Slash so no, definitely not a good guy at this point.

Newtralizer has been in an episode?
Which one?

[Donatello19]

MAJOR SPOILER ALERT:

When Shredder said he had a plans for a new mutant...he was probably talking about Karai. Why, you ask? Well, someone contacted Playmates asking if there will be a Karai figure, and they responded saying that a "mutated Karai figure" will be coming in 2015. So, it's probably Karai that Shredder was talking about...

...

Newtralizer has been in an episode?
Which one?

Operation: Breakout (Season 1)

[Electric]

Just realized that in baxters lab, after he mutated, it shows jars with an eye, a brain and some other organs. Possible nod to what shredder did to Baxter in 2k3?

[BubblyShell22]

Oooh, I saw those, too, and that was one of my thoughts too. Either that or failed experiments done by Baxter for Shredder.

As for the retromutagen, the way I look at is that Donnie didn't know that one drop would be able to cure someone. He was going off of guesswork and figured it would take the whole vial. Now that he knows better, he can make more and cure more mutants than ever. I'd love to see Slash go back to Spike and definitely see Malachi and Tim go back to normal, too.

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Okay, here's a problem I have with retro mutagen:

Nothing is permanent anymore.

Now that any mutant can be 'undone', to me at least, it makes the show a little less interesting. Whenever someone ends up being 'mutated', it's not something permanent and substantial anymore. It's not going to be as special or shocking.

That means they can also mutate someone for such a short temporary time to sell a toy, when it's a blatant move TO sell the toy. That's what worries me.

But I'm hoping this isn't where Ciro goes with the retro mutagen. The appearance of retro mutagen may make a few interesting story lines. It would be cool to see Donnie secondarily mutated into a monster down the road (like the 2k3 series), and the turtles have to find a way to make the retro mutagen and return their brother to normal over a period of episodes. And I think the Greg Cipes cameo scene in this episode may be foreshadowing what is to come: at least one of the turtles returns to their original state. It'd be cool for the Shredder to use this against them, and Donnie has to destroy everything that helped him make the retro mutagen.

Bottom Line: I don't want the retro mutagen to be around too long

[CyberCubed]

Mutants not being permanent has never been the issue with the show. It was always obvious most of the humans would get turned back to normal.

[Metalwolf]

Okay, here's a problem I have with retro mutagen:

Nothing is permanent anymore.

Now that any mutant can be 'undone', to me at least, it makes the show a little less interesting. Whenever someone ends up being 'mutated', it's not something permanent and substantial anymore. It's not going to be as special or shocking.
--------


It'd be cool for the Shredder to use this against them, and Donnie has to destroy everything that helped him make the retro mutagen.

Bottom Line: I don't want the retro mutagen to be around too longActually, the Foot would have a hard time in making a retromutagen because they don't have April. And I doubt the Turtles will blurt out what April is, or that they need her DNA to make it and why.

Plus it takes 10 months to create another batch, even with a tank full of the stuff. So any mutants will still be mutants for the better part of a year, or even if they want to be changed back, since most of the mutated-animal ones don't seem to want to revert back to their animal forms.. And if a human is double-mutated (as in the case of Rahzar) then they might not be able to be cured at all.

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Mutants not being permanent has never been the issue with the show. It was always obvious most of the humans would get turned back to normal.

I don't necessarily think so. There's a difference between WANTING to be turned back to human and turning back to human. If you were a human, wouldn't you express your opinion about how it stinks (that is, if you think it stinks)?

Actually, the Foot would have a hard time in making a retromutagen because they don't have April. And I doubt the Turtles will blurt out what April is, or that they need her DNA to make it and why.

Plus it takes 10 months to create another batch, even with a tank full of the stuff. So any mutants will still be mutants for the better part of a year, or even if they want to be changed back, since most of the mutated-animal ones don't seem to want to revert back to their animal forms.. And if a human is double-mutated (as in the case of Rahzar) then they might not be able to be cured at all.

I'm not necessarily saying they would have to make the retromutagen. They could do something as simple as stealing or retrieving it from the turtles, just like Baxter did in this episode.

But, yes, I get your point. I'm just hoping this 'retromutagen' addition to the show isn't just another way to sell a bunch of more toys and do more temporary mutant of the week episodes.

[Metalwolf]

I'm not necessarily saying they would have to make the retromutagen. They could do something as simple as stealing or retrieving it from the turtles, just like Baxter did in this episode.

But, yes, I get your point. I'm just hoping this 'retromutagen' addition to the show isn't just another way to sell a bunch of more toys and do more temporary mutant of the week episodes.But any Foot mutant that stole it ended up trying to use it on themselves, none of them even gave a moment's thought to dumping it on a Turtle. So if there is the very rare retro-mutagen produced, the Turtles will be more worried about the thieves taking it to use on themselves then over any possibility of it being used against them. They only have very limited quantities of the mutagen, plus it takes months to create just a small amount from 10 canisters. I doubt the Foot would hand over more of the stuff just to help their enemies, especially not with Shredder in control.

[victory_angel]

Okay, here's a problem I have with retro mutagen:

Nothing is permanent anymore.

Now that any mutant can be 'undone', to me at least, it makes the show a little less interesting. Whenever someone ends up being 'mutated', it's not something permanent and substantial anymore. It's not going to be as special or shocking.

That means they can also mutate someone for such a short temporary time to sell a toy, when it's a blatant move TO sell the toy. That's what worries me.

But I'm hoping this isn't where Ciro goes with the retro mutagen. The appearance of retro mutagen may make a few interesting story lines. It would be cool to see Donnie secondarily mutated into a monster down the road (like the 2k3 series), and the turtles have to find a way to make the retro mutagen and return their brother to normal over a period of episodes. And I think the Greg Cipes cameo scene in this episode may be foreshadowing what is to come: at least one of the turtles returns to their original state. It'd be cool for the Shredder to use this against them, and Donnie has to destroy everything that helped him make the retro mutagen.

Bottom Line: I don't want the retro mutagen to be around too long

I agree with you on a lot of this.

It'd be cool for the Shredder to use this against them, and Donnie has to destroy everything that helped him make the retro mutagen.

Well maybe not April since he needed her DNA to help make the retromutagen.

However this past episode had some loose references to the episode "Splinter No More" But as people who have seen that OT episode remember, the effects of the Retromutagen were temporary. So perhaps the fact Kirby was only able to be hit by a drop of the stuff and not the full vial like they had suspected may come back into play when the plot says it's convenient. Though it would have been more realistic if that single drop had only stabilized Kirby's mutation or reversed him at least a fraction of the way so he he's still a mutant, but they know the retromutagen was able to help somewhat.



There are some mutants Donnie should restore as a kindness.

April's Father was one of them. And innocent people like Rockwell and Sir Malachi are others.

Others should be restored simply because it would make them less threatening.

Such as Tigerclaw for example was mutated by the Kraang when he was a child. I mean yeah he's their enemy because he works for the Shredder. But I doubt he knows that the Shredder is associated with the Kraang albet loosely. Maybe being informed of that and being told that is is possible to restore his humanity will make that Mutant tiger turn sides. After all Donnie was the only turtle TC hasn't seen yet.

I doubt he'd be an ally of the Turtles, he's more likely to an anti-hero or a rogue villain regardless.

[raphmike]

that remind me when i see they try get retromutagen and too late same way tmnt second part movie did too try get mutagen but too late. i happy april
not become mutagen because she look great. 8/10

[Electric]

Okay, here's a problem I have with retro mutagen:

Nothing is permanent anymore.

Now that any mutant can be 'undone', to me at least, it makes the show a little less interesting. Whenever someone ends up being 'mutated', it's not something permanent and substantial anymore. It's not going to be as special or shocking.

That means they can also mutate someone for such a short temporary time to sell a toy, when it's a blatant move TO sell the toy. That's what worries me.

But I'm hoping this isn't where Ciro goes with the retro mutagen. The appearance of retro mutagen may make a few interesting story lines. It would be cool to see Donnie secondarily mutated into a monster down the road (like the 2k3 series), and the turtles have to find a way to make the retro mutagen and return their brother to normal over a period of episodes. And I think the Greg Cipes cameo scene in this episode may be foreshadowing what is to come: at least one of the turtles returns to their original state. It'd be cool for the Shredder to use this against them, and Donnie has to destroy everything that helped him make the retro mutagen.

Bottom Line: I don't want the retro mutagen to be around too long


I agree with you on some things. It does take away from the tragic aspect of the mutation. But then you have mutants like the squirrels and coach roach that weren't tragic at all.

I don't think the retro mutagen will be a common occurrence, like them walking around with guns filled with the stuff trying to in mutate everything. They made it very clear in this episode that it takes awhile to make the stuff, 10 canisters for 1 of retro. Plus it takes a lot of time, a couple months per canister. So it doesn't sound like they suddenly get an infinite supply of it, but just getting another batch every few episodes. We may lose a few mutants, but we could gain humans back. If Karai does mutate, i doubt she'll stay that way long, atleast I hope. My theory, and hope as well, is that if any other consistently shown mutant gets un mutated, it will be fish face, just because all he talks about now is wanting to be human, and with Bradford double mutation, I think something will happen with him. It would be cool to have his human form back, and that could increase tensions between rahZar and him.

And the retro mutagen opens up a lot of things for season 3.

[snake]

Sorry for being inactive lately, but this episode was great! Baxter was awesome and disgusting!


10/10

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

But any Foot mutant that stole it ended up trying to use it on themselves, none of them even gave a moment's thought to dumping it on a Turtle. So if there is the very rare retro-mutagen produced, the Turtles will be more worried about the thieves taking it to use on themselves then over any possibility of it being used against them. They only have very limited quantities of the mutagen, plus it takes months to create just a small amount from 10 canisters. I doubt the Foot would hand over more of the stuff just to help their enemies, especially not with Shredder in control.

I'm more thinking in an eventual or future episode, not particularly only in this one. Maybe a Foot Bot, who doesn't need retro mutagen, ends up getting a sample and gives it to Shredder, who then comes up with the thought to use it on the turtles? Or Shredder himself gets it?

The one thing I do like, thought, as you said, that there are different motives for different people having the retro mutagen. I think was really cool. I really do like the idea of retro mutagen, my only problem with it is if it ends up getting used TOO much, making everything unsubstantial and temporary. Except, as you said, it takes awhile to make mutagen, so that does give me hope I am throwing out unnecessary and irrelevant complaints. It's just that I can see this going too far.

Well maybe not April since he needed her DNA to help make the retromutagen.

Hahahaha, nevermind! Not everything! :lol:

I don't think the retro mutagen will be a common occurrence, like them walking around with guns filled with the stuff trying to in mutate everything. They made it very clear in this episode that it takes awhile to make the stuff, 10 canisters for 1 of retro. Plus it takes a lot of time, a couple months per canister. So it doesn't sound like they suddenly get an infinite supply of it, but just getting another batch every few episodes. We may lose a few mutants, but we could gain humans back. If Karai does mutate, i doubt she'll stay that way long, atleast I hope. My theory, and hope as well, is that if any other consistently shown mutant gets un mutated, it will be fish face, just because all he talks about now is wanting to be human, and with Bradford double mutation, I think something will happen with him. It would be cool to have his human form back, and that could increase tensions between rahZar and him.

And the retro mutagen opens up a lot of things for season 3.

That's what I'm hoping too, as I said above in my comment to Metalwolf, that this will be used rarely. Seeing the retro mutagen come into play in future seasons would be sweet, as long as it's done right.

However, after all I said, I'm just voicing a concern when I may in fact have no reason at all TO voice that concern. I love this show, and I really like a lot of things they've done with it. I trust Ciro.

[victory_angel]

As cool as seeing Donnie getting double mutated would be. I don't know how logical it would be to create retromutagen or even have it conveniently created to restore him to normal.

One we don't know what effect it would have on a double dipped mutant. I.E. If Rahzar got hit by the retromutagen, would he turn back into Bradford, or would he become Dogpound again.


What made Good Gene's interesting is that the mutagen that caused Donatello's transformation was man made. When Donatello was first born as a mutant turtle the ooze that did it was Alien in origin. And then when Bishop created that fake Alien invasion, the when the turtles fought the fake Aliens causing them to blow up and unleash a manmade ooze which Donnie is later infected with

The effects were slow acting causing so as far as everyone knew Donnie was normal. The only down side being Donnie had a cold that had been lasting for months. So when the Transformation does finally take place it's a sudden and unexpected event.

If Donnie or any of the Turtles double mutates I'd like it to be a drawn out thing and not a "So & So is mutated again, we can fix that". So that way the absence of one of their own would have a stronger impact.

[FlawedCoil82]

Ehh....another so/so episode. Better than the last for sure, but still didn't give me any of what I want. Since only a drop was enough to turn April's dad back into a human, they could have "cured" virtually every mutant on the show with one vial (unless, as others suggested, the change isn't "permanent"). I was also surprised that Donnie offered to change April's dad first followed by Splinter, instead of offering to turn Mutagen Man back into Timothy.

[JH24]

Ehh....another so/so episode. Better than the last for sure, but still didn't give me any of what I want. Since only a drop was enough to turn April's dad back into a human, they could have "cured" virtually every mutant on the show with one vial (unless, as others suggested, the change isn't "permanent"). I was also surprised that Donnie offered to change April's dad first followed by Splinter, instead of offering to turn Mutagen Man back into Timothy.

I feel the same way. It was not a bad episode but for me personally not one of the best. Some plot points could have been written better. I found it strange they needed a syringe to inject the retro-mutagen, that they forgot that April was immune to Mutagen and that Shredder mutated Baxter for his failures, then still forced him to make another mutant in the end, and everyone seeming to forget about the huge vat of Mutagen in Baxter's lab.

===

As for Timothy, you make a good point. But April is their/his closest friend and they carry the blame and regret on their shoulders for Kirby's mutation, so it's understandable they want to help April and Kirby as one of the first.

As for Master Splinter, he's family and he's their father, it's natural for them to offer the retro-mutagen to him as well.

Timothy, in the end, is to blame for his own mutation. Donnie feels responsible and sadness about this and definitely sees him as a friend, but with Timothy being frozen his situation perhaps is "less urgent" and he has no awareness of his existence right now. The only point that can be made is that if he was cured now he could return to his parents sooner, he must be lost for months already.


I'm pretty sure that Timothy was the third person on Donnie's list (Or maybe the second as Splinter mentioned he still has his humanity, both Kirby and Timothy have/had lost their humanity) and he may have been cured next if the vial hadn't broke. Only comment I can make about this is that I wished the writers had Donnie acknowledge that Timothy needed to be cured as well, I found it odd he wasn't mentioned even once in an episode ike this.

[Jon_Talbain]

I feel the same way. It was not a bad episode but for me personally not one of the best. Some plot points could have been written better. I found it strange they needed a syringe to inject the retro-mutagen, that they forgot that April was immune to Mutagen and that Shredder mutated Baxter for his failures, then still forced him to make another mutant in the end, and everyone seeming to forget about the huge vat of Mutagen in Baxter's lab.

===

As for Timothy, you make a good point. But April is their/his closest friend and they carry the blame and regret on their shoulders for Kirby's mutation, so it's understandable they want to help April and Kirby as one of the first.

As for Master Splinter, he's family and he's their father, it's natural for them to offer the retro-mutagen to him as well.

Timothy, in the end, is to blame for his own mutation. Donnie feels responsible and sadness about this and definitely sees him as a friend, but with Timothy being frozen his situation perhaps is "less urgent" and he has no awareness of his existence right now. The only point that can be made is that if he was cured now he could return to his parents sooner, he must be lost for months already.


I'm pretty sure that Timothy was the third person on Donnie's list (Or maybe the second as Splinter mentioned he still has his humanity, both Kirby and Timothy have/had lost their humanity) and he may have been cured next if the vial hadn't broke. Only comment I can make about this is that I wished the writers had Donnie acknowledge that Timothy needed to be cured as well, I found it odd he wasn't mentioned even once in an episode ike this.

Baxter should be furious with Shredder. I think anyone would be. Shredder mutated him because of his so called mutant failures, then mutates Baxter, only to need Baxter's help to create another mutant? That was beyond messed up.

Did they even show Timothy in this episode? It is very strange they didn't even mention him. Certain episodes may be written this way to prolong things, but it brings Don's and the other turtles' morality in question. Even if it was Timothy's fault, how could they leave him as a contained blob for longer than he has to be? It's like he isn't even thought of as a former human being.

And what happened to all the people walking around? For some episodes, they at least showed people screaming or being there. That adds a lot to the show. I think a lot of people would have noticed a huge, man fly.

[Metalwolf]

Baxter should be furious with Shredder. I think anyone would be. Shredder mutated him because of his so called mutant failures, then mutates Baxter, only to need Baxter's help to create another mutant? That was beyond messed up.

Did they even show Timothy in this episode? It is very strange they didn't even mention him. Certain episodes may be written this way to prolong things, but it brings Don's and the other turtles' morality in question. Even if it was Timothy's fault, how could they leave him as a contained blob for longer than he has to be? It's like he isn't even thought of as a former human being.

And what happened to all the people walking around? For some episodes, they at least showed people screaming or being there. That adds a lot to the show. I think a lot of people would have noticed a huge, man fly.I was pleasently surprised that Baxter has still kept his mind to be able to work on the mutagen, I remember in the 80s show he ended up losing his mind or getting less intelligent. I wouldn't be surprised though if Baxter backstabs Shredder somehow in revenge, like making the next mutant not have a permanent mutation, or inducing the mutagen to rob it of it's intellectual capabilities. He knows the mutagen well enough, and the others wouldn't have any understanding of the mathematics or formulas he's scrawling on his blackboard.

Yes, I thought they would mention Timothy too. It was like he was last on their minds, even though he ended up with the worst mutation out of everybody. If I were them, I'd ask Splinter beforehand what he wanted. He might have said for them to help Timothy first since he had 15 years as a rat, and he could wait a bit more. Plus it would have prevented the second canister from being wasted since they could have simply dumped it on Timmy right away. He's just sitting there anyway, the show isn't using him much. Time to close his story arc.

P.S, Were you able to get the last PM I had sent to you yesterday? My computer was acting a bit wonky and once in a while stuff doesn't get sent.

[Jon_Talbain]

I was pleasently surprised that Baxter has still kept his mind to be able to work on the mutagen, I remember in the 80s show he ended up losing his mind or getting less intelligent. I wouldn't be surprised though if Baxter backstabs Shredder somehow in revenge, like making the next mutant not have a permanent mutation, or inducing the mutagen to rob it of it's intellectual capabilities. He knows the mutagen well enough, and the others wouldn't have any understanding of the mathematics or formulas he's scrawling on his blackboard.

Yes, I thought they would mention Timothy too. It was like he was last on their minds, even though he ended up with the worst mutation out of everybody. If I were them, I'd ask Splinter beforehand what he wanted. He might have said for them to help Timothy first since he had 15 years as a rat, and he could wait a bit more. Plus it would have prevented the second canister from being wasted since they could have simply dumped it on Timmy right away. He's just sitting there anyway, the show isn't using him much. Time to close his story arc.

P.S, Were you able to get the last PM I had sent to you yesterday? My computer was acting a bit wonky and once in a while stuff doesn't get sent.

I am surprised Baxter has any humanity at all, much less his intelligence. It was so dramatic with the slow motion explosion of the first vial of mutagen. Then all of them kept going off as if he was being shot with a machine gun. Also, the title of the episode is painfully true. Almost every mutation we have seen so far has someone watching or being their while the mutation is taking place. But Shredder and Rahzar just left Baxter all alone while he mutated. And after the life Baxter has had, he probably won't be trusting anyone unless it is something drastic to change his mind.

Shredder didn't even try out the mutants Baxter made. How does Shredder know they are failures just because of how they look? They might have really been a threat if given the chance to prove themselves. And apparently Shredder must have thought Baxter had some ability, since he still dragged him back at the end of the episode. And you are right about Splinter. He has been in that form for over a decade. Timothy is just a tragic wanna-be hero and teenager. They really should have helped him out already.

What happened to the Squirrelanoids? And Snakeweed and the others? The turtles haven't mentioned much of anyone lately. Why did Raph not try to steal the retro-mutagen in desperation to turn Slash back into Spike? Why has Don never cared about Spyroach? Don had obviously bonded with the roach before the mutation. Why didn't Mikey turn Ice Cream Kitty back into a normal cat? Nick could have easily given more depth and plots to some of these storylines. And I believe I did get the PM, I will check it now.

[blindturtle02]

Good points there. It would have been interesting to at least hear Raph mentioning demutating Slash eventually, as well as Don mentioning Timothy. When these characters aren't in an episode, it's like they don't even exist at all. I thought we'd see Karai a little. So I'm confused. Is she still with the Foot, or did she venture out on her own at the end of Manhattan Project? If she's still with the Foot, she probably uh went to hang out at the noodle shop in Lonely Mutation. Yeah, that's it. Murakami's teaching her braille or something. Either that, or Shredder sent her to her room for a really really long time due to disobeying him during his absence. Wonder what she's going to think of Baxter when she sees him. Nobody's going to be able to enjoy a meal with that guy around now. He's going to be such a buzzkill-- no pun intended, when it comes to the appetites of folks in Shredder's lair.

[Jon_Talbain]

Good points there. It would have been interesting to at least hear Raph mentioning demutating Slash eventually, as well as Don mentioning Timothy. When these characters aren't in an episode, it's like they don't even exist at all. I thought we'd see Karai a little. So I'm confused. Is she still with the Foot, or did she venture out on her own at the end of Manhattan Project? If she's still with the Foot, she probably uh went to hang out at the noodle shop in Lonely Mutation. Yeah, that's it. Murakami's teaching her braille or something. Either that, or Shredder sent her to her room for a really really long time due to disobeying him during his absence. Wonder what she's going to think of Baxter when she sees him. Nobody's going to be able to enjoy a meal with that guy around now. He's going to be such a buzzkill-- no pun intended, when it comes to the appetites of folks in Shredder's lair.

Right! It is like the characters that aren't being seen just don't exist. There should be sightings, a mention of them or something. Don just kept on stressing that he would help Timothy and Kirby. Now that he makes a cure, Timothy isn't even mentioned. Ugh.

I do hope they show Karai and Fishface's reaction to seeing Baxter. I was eating while watching the episode, and regret it.

[Powder]

One of the best episodes to date, by far!

[rickwj324]

One of the best episodes to date, by far!

I just watched it and said the exact same thing!! Truly a well-done episode.

[Metalwolf]

Right! It is like the characters that aren't being seen just don't exist. There should be sightings, a mention of them or something. Don just kept on stressing that he would help Timothy and Kirby. Now that he makes a cure, Timothy isn't even mentioned. Ugh.

I do hope they show Karai and Fishface's reaction to seeing Baxter. I was eating while watching the episode, and regret it.I sent you a PM, let me know if it it is it too long. I'm tring not to write book length stuff, but it can be hard not to. If it is long, I'll try to cut it down next time :)

But I agree. Although on Amazon where you can buy the Nick TMNT episodes, there is a free 'informational' that you can watch that mentions what to do and what not to do if you come across any strange canisters. I haven't watched it yet, but it does show that people are noticing stuff and that it is getting on the news. Plus I bet that Timmy and Martin are on the Missing Person's list too.

@blindturtle02

Oh, I wish I could actually be there to watch their faces as Baxter projectile pukes all over his food. Mainly because I would be laughing my butt off, and I'd get to make really bad jokes like the famous "Gee, he must be on a 'see food' diet" and the bad 'nature program narrator' impression: "Now we see the fly in his natural habitat..."

I know, I'm weird. :P

[BubblyShell22]

I agree with BT and Jon in that one of the flaws of this show is acting like a character doesn't exist until the plot calls for them. Yeah, Tim's there, but it's like he didn't exist for them since they never mentioned him. I'm sure he'll crop up again when the plot calls for it because that's the way this show rolls.

[JTH]

I agree with BT and Jon in that one of the flaws of this show is acting like a character doesn't exist until the plot calls for them. Yeah, Tim's there, but it's like he didn't exist for them since they never mentioned him. I'm sure he'll crop up again when the plot calls for it because that's the way this show rolls.
Honestly though, the fact they show Timothy in the background still frozen is enough for me, it shows he's still there and for that he doesn't need to be mentioned by the characters themselves.

Plus, if they mentioned Timothy in the episode as nothing more than an add-on throwaway line, people would have complained "Why even mention him if you're not going to follow up on it or use him?"

It's just a matter of not being able to please everybody.

[rickwj324]

I agree with BT and Jon in that one of the flaws of this show is acting like a character doesn't exist until the plot calls for them. Yeah, Tim's there, but it's like he didn't exist for them since they never mentioned him. I'm sure he'll crop up again when the plot calls for it because that's the way this show rolls.

Yeah, I get what you guys are saying, but it's also a 22 minute kids show and it primarily focuses on the center of that particular episode. 22 minutes is not a lot of time to tell a story and bogging it down with other little tidbits of storylines would just take away from the story at hand. The pieces of stories that they put on the back-burner will get revisited again when the timing is right.

I think for a show that's primarily aimed at kids (the nick key demographic) it still comes across as very adult and does a wonderful job at telling a story (whether it's a single episode storyline or part of a continuing arc of stories). This truly has turned into one of my all-time favorite cartoons.

Rick

[BabyTurtles]

Yeah, I get what you guys are saying, but it's also a 22 minute kids show and it primarily focuses on the center of that particular episode. 22 minutes is not a lot of time to tell a story and bogging it down with other little tidbits of storylines would just take away from the story at hand. The pieces of stories that they put on the back-burner will get revisited again when the timing is right.

I think for a show that's primarily aimed at kids (the nick key demographic) it still comes across as very adult and does a wonderful job at telling a story (whether it's a single episode storyline or part of a continuing arc of stories). This truly has turned into one of my all-time favorite cartoons.

Rick

I hate when people say this :(.......that's not a good excuse at all.
(I'm not targeting you, but I gotta get this out)

Avatar the Last Airbender was a 22 minute kids show and it brought up past events in episodes all the time....they were constantly mentioning characters that weren't even in the episode. When Aang/Zuko or anyone regretted something it didn't just go away the next episode.

When Appa got kidnapped Aang was devastated for 2 episodes...and was still upset until they got Appa back, Appa was never forgotten....they put up posters and tried looking for him whenever they had the time in future episodes. He was constantly mentioned. And Appa didn't come back until the last episodes of the season.

Karai is Splinters daughter? we don't get a reaction for a few episodes....in fact why aren't they pondering it right now?
April had to live with the turtles? We don't see how she copes
Slash betrays Raph....we don't see how he feels later.
Tim needs to get demutated? no mention of him.

I'm happy that we have seen Donnie work on the retromutagen for a while now.....but I wish we could see more important things being mentioned. Even if it's a different episode.....

even if it's a few seconds...continuing off something is important. "It's a kids show" is not a good excuse for them not to try their best and make an awesome story.

[Luckyday]

I hate when people say this :(.......that's not a good excuse at all.
(I'm not targeting you, but I gotta get this out)

Avatar the Last Airbender was a 22 minute kids show and it brought up past events in episodes all the time....they were constantly mentioning characters that weren't even in the episode. When Aang/Zuko or anyone regretted something it didn't just go away the next episode.

When Appa got kidnapped Aang was devastated for 2 episodes...and was still upset until they got Appa back, Appa was never forgotten....they put up posters and tried looking for him whenever they had the time in future episodes. He was constantly mentioned. And Appa didn't come back until the last episodes of the season.

Karai is Splinters daughter? we don't get a reaction for a few episodes....in fact why aren't they pondering it right now?
April had to live with the turtles? We don't see how she copes
Slash betrays Raph....we don't see how he feels later.
Tim needs to get demutated? no mention of him.

I'm happy that we have seen Donnie work on the retromutagen for a while now.....but I wish we could see more important things being mentioned. Even if it's a different episode.....

even if it's a few seconds...continuing off something is important. "It's a kids show" is not a good excuse for them not to try their best and make an awesome story.

I think the reason why we don't have those moments is not because "it's a kid's show" but because it's trying move away from being a character driven show to be much more like an action plot driven show or in this case, just an action driven since there no clear goals other then "find all mutagen" and everything that gets revealed is usually done through by chance with reactive characters instead of active characters.

[BabyTurtles]

I think the reason why we don't have those moments is not because "it's a kid's show" but because it's trying move away from being a character driven show to be much more like an action plot driven show or in this case, just an action driven since there no clear goals other then "find all mutagen" and everything that gets revealed is usually done through by chance with reactive characters instead of active characters.

maybe, I thought this show was more character driven at first though.

[JTH]

maybe, I thought this show was more character driven at first though.
Well it was at first, that's what Lucky was saying.

But when it was clear that the characters were established, the show became more as to what Lucky was referring to. And as the show has continued, it's become more of a show where it's the plot driving the characters rather than the characters driving the plot; if that makes any sense to understand.

In some cases that can work, and right now they're writing the story where they're letting the plot write out the characters involves, where as I think a lot people on here would like it the other way around.

I personally don't mind either way, if done well.

[Luckyday]

It really shouldn't. I mean you have ridiculous good voice cast that can lend itself well to character arcs. To go in the opposite direction would be a huge mistake on their part, but understandably because, the only character driven storylines from the comics or whatever had only the Shredder. To make something that revolves around the main four instead the other way would require taking a risk and creating something new rather the re-inventing something we have already seen from OT.

[Jon_Talbain]

I sent you a PM, let me know if it it is it too long. I'm tring not to write book length stuff, but it can be hard not to. If it is long, I'll try to cut it down next time :)

But I agree. Although on Amazon where you can buy the Nick TMNT episodes, there is a free 'informational' that you can watch that mentions what to do and what not to do if you come across any strange canisters. I haven't watched it yet, but it does show that people are noticing stuff and that it is getting on the news. Plus I bet that Timmy and Martin are on the Missing Person's list too.


I saw the PM, isn't too long at all. Those are are the types of messages I like honestly. You can make it longer even, no problem. And the free informational sounds interesting, I may need to check that out.

I agree with BT and Jon in that one of the flaws of this show is acting like a character doesn't exist until the plot calls for them. Yeah, Tim's there, but it's like he didn't exist for them since they never mentioned him. I'm sure he'll crop up again when the plot calls for it because that's the way this show rolls.

Hopefully Timothy will be brought up soon. It just seems so wrong to leave him a frozen blob. I hope that Timothy and Baxter get can have better luck soon.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Didn't see the episode, but those screen caps, yeah, that is a little bit out of place for a kid's show. What were the animators thinking? This is just about as bad when in the OT, April was tied up, and I can't remember what Turtle it was, but when he removed the ropes from her chest, her boobs literally bust out and flop for a second.


It was Mikey, and he was untying her after they found her on the rooftop in the second ep of the pilot "season". It was on top of the Security company building Shredder was using to stage his tech company robberies, and under which he had parked the Technodrome. And Mikey starts right at her chest while he's untying her, too.... :trazz::toops::teek::twink:


Shredder mutated Baxter for his failures, then still forced him to make another mutant in the end, and everyone seeming to forget about the huge vat of Mutagen in Baxter's lab.

===

As for Timothy, you make a good point. But April is their/his closest friend and they carry the blame and regret on their shoulders for Kirby's mutation, so it's understandable they want to help April and Kirby as one of the first.

As for Master Splinter, he's family and he's their father, it's natural for them to offer the retro-mutagen to him as well.

Timothy, in the end, is to blame for his own mutation. Donnie feels responsible and sadness about this and definitely sees him as a friend, but with Timothy being frozen his situation perhaps is "less urgent" and he has no awareness of his existence right now. The only point that can be made is that if he was cured now he could return to his parents sooner, he must be lost for months already.


I'm pretty sure that Timothy was the third person on Donnie's list (Or maybe the second as Splinter mentioned he still has his humanity, both Kirby and Timothy have/had lost their humanity) and he may have been cured next if the vial hadn't broke. Only comment I can make about this is that I wished the writers had Donnie acknowledge that Timothy needed to be cured as well, I found it odd he wasn't mentioned even once in an episode ike this.


A vat of it- Donnie could probably make quite a bit of the retro-mutagen from all that. We may YET see him make more, and now that he knows April is immune, he might have more reason to experiment with her DNA. (samples freely given, of course.)

I'm wondering though, Timothy has drunk at least two canisters of that stuff since he mutated, so what effect would that have on the retro-mutagen? Does it matter? And considering how extreme his mutation was, CAN he be cured?


I am surprised Baxter has any humanity at all, much less his intelligence. It was so dramatic with the slow motion explosion of the first vial of mutagen. Then all of them kept going off as if he was being shot with a machine gun. Also, the title of the episode is painfully true. Almost every mutation we have seen so far has someone watching or being their while the mutation is taking place. But Shredder and Rahzar just left Baxter all alone while he mutated. And after the life Baxter has had, he probably won't be trusting anyone unless it is something drastic to change his mind.

Shredder didn't even try out the mutants Baxter made. How does Shredder know they are failures just because of how they look? They might have really been a threat if given the chance to prove themselves. And apparently Shredder must have thought Baxter had some ability, since he still dragged him back at the end of the episode. And you are right about Splinter. He has been in that form for over a decade. Timothy is just a tragic wanna-be hero and teenager. They really should have helped him out already.

What happened to the Squirrelanoids? And Snakeweed and the others? The turtles haven't mentioned much of anyone lately. Why did Raph not try to steal the retro-mutagen in desperation to turn Slash back into Spike? Why has Don never cared about Spyroach? Don had obviously bonded with the roach before the mutation. Why didn't Mikey turn Ice Cream Kitty back into a normal cat? Nick could have easily given more depth and plots to some of these storylines. And I believe I did get the PM, I will check it now.


Baxter wasn't an especially stellar human being to begin with- he was a whiney, insecure and petty man, and a thief and vengeful jerk, to boot. His "humanity" was pretty thin to begin with. He DOES seem to have lost some of his sanity, but even that was slightly damaged already.

Ace Duck? Seriously??!! If I were Shredder, I'd consider that a failure too. It was stupid and pointless, not to mention of little threat value. A DUCK. Not exactly the most fear-inspiring mutation imaginable.

As for Spike- he is sentient now, like the turtles themselves. Would he even WANT to be un-mutated? I seriously doubt it. Snake doesn't seem to mind his mutation, and neither did Spiderbytes. Pete the Pigeon probably wouldn't want to change back, and neither would Martin, most likely- he actually seemed to be pleased with his change.

The only ones I can see them changing back might be ICK and the Spyroach, but only because the roach wasn't really much more intelligent, and was a threat, and Mikey letting ICK mutate in the first place was a mistake that caused some moral problems. As for de-mutating any of the animals that are now intelligent- that would be taking away their free will to choose, and Splinter would probably point out to the turtles that it would be no better than if THEY were un-mutated themselves. I don't want to see them do that to someone else. Not even Slash or Pete.


Edit: I also love the references to The Fly in this one- especially Baxter's plan to fuse with April like Jeff Goldblume tried to do in that movie. This was a great episode, and Mikey's Tur-fly-tle costume is so funny! He really knows how to annoy Raph, too....

[Ninjinister]

Ace Duck? Seriously??!! If I were Shredder, I'd consider that a failure too. It was stupid and pointless, not to mention of little threat value. A DUCK. Not exactly the most fear-inspiring mutation imaginable.


Says the gal who is named "Duckie."

And plus he knows Taekwondo, apparently. Ever fight a a Taekwondo practitioner?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, yes, I have. Two of my cousins took lessons, and I sparred with them a few times while they were learning. One of them was actually pretty good at it, too. However, their teacher did not impress me much.

Incidentally, the only duck I'd ever consider a REAL threat is Howard. He knows Quack-Fu!

[victory_angel]

The only ones I can see them changing back might be ICK and the Spyroach, but only because the roach wasn't really much more intelligent, and was a threat, and Mikey letting ICK mutate in the first place was a mistake that caused some moral problems. As for de-mutating any of the animals that are now intelligent- that would be taking away their free will to choose, and Splinter would probably point out to the turtles that it would be no better than if THEY were un-mutated themselves. I don't want to see them do that to someone else. Not even Slash or Pete.


I think the only ones who should forcibly be turned back to human are the mutants who hold a considerable threat, both to the Turtles and the City. And even then the Turtles should consider the morality of it.

Timothy wasn't picked as a person who should receive the first doses to retromutagen. One because Dr. O'Neil was more urgent. He was mutated by accident and that was a mess they had to clean up before they could do anything else.

As for Splinter. He had raised and trained them for fifteen years. And over those years they have heard him morn the loss of humanity. So having the opportunity to return him to a human felt like it was their opportunity to give him back something he lost.

And yes he was clearly moved by the fact his sons were wanting to make him human after fifteen years.

[Garfield]

this episode was a fun watch. I love Baxter as a fly. This is how you do a update to an older character. He isn't just Baxter the mutant fly because he happened to be a guy mutated into a fly, they seemed to actually take some elements from Fly Baxter from the Fred Wolf toon and added it into this character like his loss in lucidity and his jump as a threat and courage. But at the end of it all he get away from being used and abused by the Shredder.

[Jon_Talbain]

Baxter wasn't an especially stellar human being to begin with- he was a whiney, insecure and petty man, and a thief and vengeful jerk, to boot. His "humanity" was pretty thin to begin with. He DOES seem to have lost some of his sanity, but even that was slightly damaged already.

Ace Duck? Seriously??!! If I were Shredder, I'd consider that a failure too. It was stupid and pointless, not to mention of little threat value. A DUCK. Not exactly the most fear-inspiring mutation imaginable.

As for Spike- he is sentient now, like the turtles themselves. Would he even WANT to be un-mutated? I seriously doubt it. Snake doesn't seem to mind his mutation, and neither did Spiderbytes. Pete the Pigeon probably wouldn't want to change back, and neither would Martin, most likely- he actually seemed to be pleased with his change.

The only ones I can see them changing back might be ICK and the Spyroach, but only because the roach wasn't really much more intelligent, and was a threat, and Mikey letting ICK mutate in the first place was a mistake that caused some moral problems. As for de-mutating any of the animals that are now intelligent- that would be taking away their free will to choose, and Splinter would probably point out to the turtles that it would be no better than if THEY were un-mutated themselves. I don't want to see them do that to someone else. Not even Slash or Pete.


Edit: I also love the references to The Fly in this one- especially Baxter's plan to fuse with April like Jeff Goldblume tried to do in that movie. This was a great episode, and Mikey's Tur-fly-tle costume is so funny! He really knows how to annoy Raph, too....

And his sanity was damaged because of people being jerks towards him. It hasn't shown his childhood, but most likely he never had much of a break or many, if any friends. This is a fictional show, but there are so called whiny people in real life that have snapped on people always making fun of them or never catching a break. It is even a running gag with the characters not even caring to say his name right. If Baxter had gotten just a little respect, he could have been different. But then again, it is all in how the Nick writers want it to be.

Well that could have been the entire plan. The turtles might not have taken a duck seriously either, only to have their neck slashed. And it is a MUTANT Duck, that makes a big difference. We are talking about a show where the main heroes are TURTLES. I would think a duck would do just fine. Besides, Shredder hasn't done that well with his own mutants either. And just like Ninjinister, I was a bit surprised you have duck in your username, and are downing the animal so much.

I understand about Slash and the others being sentient. It may not be fair to try and change them back. That may be a very tough decision. I guess we will see what Nick chooses to do.

[Luckyday]

And his sanity was damaged because of people being jerks towards him. It hasn't shown his childhood, but most likely he never had much of a break or many, if any friends. This is a fictional show, but there are so called whiny people in real life that have snapped on people always making fun of them or never catching a break. It is even a running gag with the characters not even caring to say his name right. If Baxter had gotten just a little respect, he could have been different. But then again, it is all in how the Nick writers want it to be.

Well that could have been the entire plan. The turtles might not have taken a duck seriously either, only to have their neck slashed. And it is a MUTANT Duck, that makes a big difference. We are talking about a show where the main heroes are TURTLES. I would think a duck would do just fine. Besides, Shredder hasn't done that well with his own mutants either. And just like Ninjinister, I was a bit surprised you have duck in your username, and are downing the animal so much.

I understand about Slash and the others being sentient. It may not be fair to try and change them back. That may be a very tough decision. I guess we will see what Nick chooses to do.

From what I have seen so far, I seriously doubt that this show will have deep conversations about sentient rights.

[Jon_Talbain]

From what I have seen so far, I seriously doubt that this show will have deep conversations about sentient rights.

Yeah, you are probably right. It is a shame too, because the show could go a lot deeper.

[Guitar_Raph]

And also, am I the only one who thought the Greg Cipes face part was funny? :lol:

You got a fan that thought that too! Greg Cipes in Mikey's body was awesome. Wonder how Mikey would look in Greg's body? Bet he'd be playing the guitar & singing!

Speaking of that, another funny gag was when Casey Jones used his hockey stick playing guitar! Take that Drake Bell!

[victory_angel]

And his sanity was damaged because of people being jerks towards him.

We do hear a little bit about his life in Baxter's Gambit. One of the things he says is that for a science fair project he made an active volcano with real lava. And was expelled for burning down the gym, and since then he has wanted revenge on the people who have wronged him.

[NoName999]

I know I'm not the only who thought that April was going to become this show's Venus, right? lol

And at least they resolved the plotline of April's Dad? That dragged on far too long.

[blindturtle02]

I hope he doesn't have a relapse due to very little retro-mutagen spilling on him. They could go the way of The Lizard from the 90's Spider-Man animated series. Or maybe not. Nonetheless, I'm worried about Kirby. I'd like to think he'll stay human, but am not too sure.

[Jon_Talbain]

We do hear a little bit about his life in Baxter's Gambit. One of the things he says is that for a science fair project he made an active volcano with real lava. And was expelled for burning down the gym, and since then he has wanted revenge on the people who have wronged him.

Oh yeah, I guess I need to go back and watch some episodes. Didn't something like a science experiment gone wrong happen in real life pretty recently?

I know I'm not the only who thought that April was going to become this show's Venus, right? lol

And at least they resolved the plotline of April's Dad? That dragged on far too long.

Honestly I thought she might for one episode, then get turned back human. Nick really made that scene dramatic to throw people off lol. I am also glad Kirby is back human, but I am still not sure it is fully over for him.

[Warhorse]

One more mutant, Shredder says. I've been trying to look up natural predators of turtles. Frogs came up, and so did snakes. Scaletail would rock, but I was hoping they'd stick with his alien bounty hunter roots. I was thinking we would get to see B and R before s2 is over, but not too sure about that. Wondering if this next mutant will be an original 2012 character.

Leo had a fear of snakes in the OT. Would be great to see him not so fearless all of the time.

[Micrathena]

Hello everyone, how are you? First time poster here. I looked through the posts to see if anyone else mentioned it so please forgive me if so. Did anyone notice that Leo was grabbing for his sword as April was coming out of the mutagen tank? I just thought it was funny even though there has been plenty of previous experiences of humans/animals turning nasty after mutating. Maybe after all of April's sass, Leonardo was just looking for a reason...

[Metalwolf]

We do hear a little bit about his life in Baxter's Gambit. One of the things he says is that for a science fair project he made an active volcano with real lava. And was expelled for burning down the gym, and since then he has wanted revenge on the people who have wronged him.Well, I think in his defense he likely wasn't thinking then 'Muhahah I'm going to burn down the school gym and get expelled" but "This is going to look far cooler and be more 'authentic' then those dumb Mentos and Diet Coke volcanoes people keep bringing in."

I think if someone said, "That might not be safe to bring in, you might have to pick something else" then he might simply have picked another project instead. Equally as impressive, but not nearly as dangerous. I bet an experimental underwater biodome with oxygen generating plants and small insects would have impressed the judges greatly. He could have called it "The future of underwater living." :P

[BabyTurtles]

Hello everyone, how are you? First time poster here. I looked through the posts to see if anyone else mentioned it so please forgive me if so. Did anyone notice that Leo was grabbing for his sword as April was coming out of the mutagen tank? I just thought it was funny even though there has been plenty of previous experiences of humans/animals turning nasty after mutating. Maybe after all of April's sass, Leonardo was just looking for a reason...

heh heh XD

I'm sure he was just preparing to defend himself....but that thought it kinda funny. :D

[victory_angel]

They didn't know what to expect when she came out. Some of the people who have become mutants no longer have their humanity. So he was reaching for his sword if April came out of the vat in a more animalistic and lest rational state.

[victory_angel]

Well, I think in his defense he likely wasn't thinking then 'Muhahah I'm going to burn down the school gym and get expelled" but "This is going to look far cooler and be more 'authentic' then those dumb Mentos and Diet Coke volcanoes people keep bringing in."

I think if someone said, "That might not be safe to bring in, you might have to pick something else" then he might simply have picked another project instead. Equally as impressive, but not nearly as dangerous. I bet an experimental underwater biodome with oxygen generating plants and small insects would have impressed the judges greatly. He could have called it "The future of underwater living." :P

In his mind he felt his genius wasn't recognized for what it was and he was expelled unfairly. But in all honesty if you think about it, being expelled was a light sentence. Because that was at least a few felonies.

Some of which include:

Arson
Destruction of School Property
Attempted Manslaughter

And I'm pretty sure Volcano's with real lava count as weapons of mass destruction.

[Shark_Blade]

I especially love Baxter's mutation at the beginning.

Very cruel and twisted, so dark of Nick. Kinda feel sorry for Baxter even. I absolutely love it. :tlove:

I found it funny that they didn't even mention turning MM back to Timothy.Yep, hilarious. Timothy is on nobody's mind, no one cares. :lol:

---------

Anyway, I'm psyched for Bebop and Rocksteady!!

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable by how April was tied up??.....

https://24.media.tumblr.com/4c1fa36868e3168add8d657e3063ccb0/tumblr_n52d2l6ICs1r9zy3co1_500.png
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a9114b6334edba4123a6dd3f43b30a0a/tumblr_inline_n529s6qVWf1qzvp42.png


her butt was in the screens face a couple of times....a little awkward....Gotta love April's butt! XD

[Micrathena]

They didn't know what to expect when she came out. Some of the people who have become mutants no longer have their humanity. So he was reaching for his sword if April came out of the vat in a more animalistic and lest rational state.

Yeah, I totally understand why. My thoughts on reason just went elsewhere too easily.

[Warhorse]

They didn't know what to expect when she came out. Some of the people who have become mutants no longer have their humanity. So he was reaching for his sword if April came out of the vat in a more animalistic and lest rational state.

You know, that could be an interesting scenario later on. What if April does turn bad one day, I'm curious as to what lengths Donnie would go to protect her against his brothers.

[ToraHogosha]

If Karai does mutate, i doubt she'll stay that way long, atleast I hope.

I hope she doesn't stay that way for long as well. I mean, when I saw the ending to that episode, I was having fits! Karai is my favorite character and I do NOT want her mutated.
How can she be a kick-butt Kunoichi looking like a narwhal?
Besides, what use would Shredder have for mutating the only human Lieutenant he has left in the Foot? What happens if he wanted to do a stealth mission? Everyone - apart from Karai - is either a mutant or a robot!
But sadly, I fear that was where he was leading. I mean, like I said, there's no one left. I mean, April is immune to mutagen and Shredder probably doesn't know of Casey's existence - so who's left to mutate besides his "daughter"?

By the way, I was very disappointed by the lack of Karai in this episode. I mean, Wormquake kinda left her on a cliffhanger. :(
According to TurtlesWikia episode guide, she doesn't appear until three more episodes time. :(

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And his sanity was damaged because of people being jerks towards him. It hasn't shown his childhood, but most likely he never had much of a break or many, if any friends. This is a fictional show, but there are so called whiny people in real life that have snapped on people always making fun of them or never catching a break. It is even a running gag with the characters not even caring to say his name right. If Baxter had gotten just a little respect, he could have been different. But then again, it is all in how the Nick writers want it to be.

Well that could have been the entire plan. The turtles might not have taken a duck seriously either, only to have their neck slashed. And it is a MUTANT Duck, that makes a big difference. We are talking about a show where the main heroes are TURTLES. I would think a duck would do just fine. Besides, Shredder hasn't done that well with his own mutants either. And just like Ninjinister, I was a bit surprised you have duck in your username, and are downing the animal so much.

I understand about Slash and the others being sentient. It may not be fair to try and change them back. That may be a very tough decision. I guess we will see what Nick chooses to do.


As VA pointed out, Baxter made a REAL volcano for a school science project, and was expelled for it. No wonder- he basically destroyed part of his school and endangered everyone present! That's not something a sane and rational mind would do. Clearly, he was already a bit unhinged, even from such a young age. Wanting revenge on the people who "wronged" him? Petty, much? Not to mention that he did it to himself with that dangerous and completely insane experiment. And he's been blaming everyone else for his problems ever since. He blamed the turtles for his failure in his FIRST EPISODE- when he was trying to commit a crime when they met him. He has ZERO excuse for his behavior.

As for the duck, I'm not "downing" the animal, but seriously, even a mutant duck isn't very threatening. (Unless it's one of those ugly Chinese ducks with the weird knob on their heads- they are rather bad-tempered, but no more "dangerous" than any other duck.) I have been around ducks and geese many times before, even used to feed some wild ones that came to rest on a local lake in our area during their migration route every year, and apart from getting a little aggressive (mostly with each other) when they knew there was food to be had, they are really very docile and hardly dangerous. Ducks have no real natural weapons, and their main form of defense is flight. They are non-predatory, and have a definite "herd mentality", with their biggest form of protection being sticking close together in groups for mutual protection and alertness. Ducks are NOT an animal that is a threat to most other species, and even a mutant duck would not have any more or less ability to fight than whatever human who was mutated already had. As for having "Duckie" in my name, it's because Duck IS my last name. Seriously- I married a man named Duck. (And yes, we've heard ALL the jokes....)

And remember, the turtles were raised by a ninja master, and have been training all their lives. Of course they are good! But would a recently mutated duck-man be very good in a fight? Probably not, unless he had some serious military training before being mutated. Knowing some Tae-Kwan-Do isn't enough, IMHO.

[Jon_Talbain]

As VA pointed out, Baxter made a REAL volcano for a school science project, and was expelled for it. No wonder- he basically destroyed part of his school and endangered everyone present! That's not something a sane and rational mind would do. Clearly, he was already a bit unhinged, even from such a young age. Wanting revenge on the people who "wronged" him? Petty, much? Not to mention that he did it to himself with that dangerous and completely insane experiment. And he's been blaming everyone else for his problems ever since. He blamed the turtles for his failure in his FIRST EPISODE- when he was trying to commit a crime when they met him. He has ZERO excuse for his behavior.

As for the duck, I'm not "downing" the animal, but seriously, even a mutant duck isn't very threatening. (Unless it's one of those ugly Chinese ducks with the weird knob on their heads- they are rather bad-tempered, but no more "dangerous" than any other duck.) I have been around ducks and geese many times before, even used to feed some wild ones that came to rest on a local lake in our area during their migration route every year, and apart from getting a little aggressive (mostly with each other) when they knew there was food to be had, they are really very docile and hardly dangerous. Ducks have no real natural weapons, and their main form of defense is flight. They are non-predatory, and have a definite "herd mentality", with their biggest form of protection being sticking close together in groups for mutual protection and alertness. Ducks are NOT an animal that is a threat to most other species, and even a mutant duck would not have any more or less ability to fight than whatever human who was mutated already had. As for having "Duckie" in my name, it's because Duck IS my last name. Seriously- I married a man named Duck. (And yes, we've heard ALL the jokes....)

And remember, the turtles were raised by a ninja master, and have been training all their lives. Of course they are good! But would a recently mutated duck-man be very good in a fight? Probably not, unless he had some serious military training before being mutated. Knowing some Tae-Kwan-Do isn't enough, IMHO.

There didn't seem to be any problem with Baxter's behavior before the science project. Unless Nick shows more of his childhood or backstory, we can't really know. Maybe he was just trying to impress or go all out. it doesn't mean he was unhinged or insane. And when someone tries to get revenge, or actually gets revenge for people bullying or being jerks, they always uses that very excuse. That the people deserved it.

And Shredder could be considered petty as well. Even though Shredder has failed time and time again, he mutates Baxter, stating that Baxter has failed too many times. Then Shredder still asks for Baxter's help at the end of the episode. That is beyond messed up.

And that's just it. We don't know what abilities or training the human had before being mutated into or with a duck. Saying he isn't a threat can't be determined yet. This is a show where a teenager(Casey Jones) was going toe to toe with a mutant ninja turtle(Raph) who had years upon years of training. If Ace Duck had any type of training with the military or martial arts, there is no telling what he is capable of. With this show, anything can happen.

[MCLeo28]

Anything can happen.

I mean a fat, middle-aged man like Vic still ended up to be a very dangerous mutant on its debut. Hell, Snake, who mutated into a giant weed seems bad on "paper", but actually turned out to be a major threat, esp. in his 2nd debut.

Being a mutant duck doesn't mean the mutant will be ineffective w/ or w/o combat experience. Even Baxter after mutating into a Fly became extremely powerful and Baxter Stockman is a very weak man.

[Micrathena]

You know, that could be an interesting scenario later on. What if April does turn bad one day, I'm curious as to what lengths Donnie would go to protect her against his brothers.

Maybe something similar when April got turned into a cat woman? She wasn't mutated, just got into a transporter with a cat or something like that. Shredder put a mind control collar on her to attack Splinter. That might really hurt the bond between Donnie and his brothers or Donnie and April depending on his actions like you said. If they do change her that might be the way they do it since she's immune to mutagen.

[victory_angel]

Maybe something similar when April got turned into a cat woman? She wasn't mutated, just got into a transporter with a cat or something like that. Shredder put a mind control collar on her to attack Splinter. That might really hurt the bond between Donnie and his brothers or Donnie and April depending on his actions like you said. If they do change her that might be the way they do it since she's immune to mutagen.

I see this happening more of do change one of the Turtles. Donnie was often the one pushing his bro's out of danger's way. Mostly this was done with Mikey and once with Raph and no points with Leo as of yet. So perhaps lets say hypothetically Donnie pushes someone out of the way of danger and ends up sharing a similar fate to his 2k3 counter part.


The other turtles want to catch and secure their brother so he doesn't attract unwanted attention. Unfortunately his transformation doesn't go unnoticed by the Foot Clan and Shredder orders Donatello's capture so he can be used as a weapon against the Turtles. The Foot Clan hit Donnie with one of the kraang hit mind control devices making Donnie making Donnie not only a monster but the prisoner of the Foot Clan.

In the mean time the other Turtles are at a loss for what they can do. None of them want to hurt their brother in any way, but he's too savage for them to approach. Leo also worries that he may need to end up putting Donnie out of his misery, because Donnie is the only one who knows how to cure Donnie.

Raph refuses to allow that option to be even considered, and Mikey knows Donnie is still there and they have to believe they can get him back.

[nimajneb]

What does everyone think of Baxter bugging out?
I think it's better then 2k3's Baxter losing a bit more of himself after every screw up

[blindturtle02]

I love Baxter bugging out. I was hoping he'd turn into a fly when 2k3 was first airing, but I went nuts for the concept of him losing his humanity literally a piece at a time. Baxter Fly is just friggin incredibly creepy in this version. I think I've watched Lonely Mutation around three times since it aired. I don't usually do that with the new eps. Having marathons after I've seen several new episodes once and acquired a tun of them is my idea of fun. However, for some reason I kept re-watching this one over the past week. Stinkbug is too cool.

[Gimme_Three]

You know, that could be an interesting scenario later on. What if April does turn bad one day, I'm curious as to what lengths Donnie would go to protect her against his brothers.

That would be awesome! This dynamic was kind of touched on with MM. Donnie didn't want his brothers to hurt him when they were trying to keep him in the alley, everyone including raph obeyed his wishes until they was able to confuse and freeze him. April would have to be a Major threat to the point where they'd have no choice but to attack her.

[Gimme_Three]

I love Baxter bugging out. I was hoping he'd turn into a fly when 2k3 was first airing, but I went nuts for the concept of him losing his humanity literally a piece at a time. Baxter Fly is just friggin incredibly creepy in this version. I think I've watched Lonely Mutation around three times since it aired. I don't usually do that with the new eps. Having marathons after I've seen several new episodes once and acquired a tun of them is my idea of fun. However, for some reason I kept re-watching this one over the past week. Stinkbug is too cool.

I agree, Nick continues to pay homage to the OT while putting their twist on it. BaxterFly' movements, twitches, and voice is very well executed.

[Wretched Reptile]

Such an amazing episode. Another personal favorite so far, most definitely. Baxter's mutation was just as memorable as the original toon IMO. Very unsettling, based on his unfortunate treatment. It really sticks the landing all over again. That being said, I'm just as prepared for him to eventually unmutate in this series, experiment on himself, and wind up in a robo-spider body again lol. :D

Also - did anyone else catch the awesome Dinosaur Neil reference from The Tick? When Baxter was trying to open the retromutagen canister? I about freaking died laughing. Just PURE WIN. :lol:

Jump into the classic Tick episode at 5:55:

mXKuAGj2d6E

There's no way this was a coincidence. :tlol:

Edit: OK, the embed above is being a wank, so try just watching the part on YouTube for reference (if it never fixes itself).

[Edit by Machias: Fixed it for ya. :) ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXKuAGj2d6E

[ThatMarvelousGuy]

What a great episode!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

There didn't seem to be any problem with Baxter's behavior before the science project. Unless Nick shows more of his childhood or backstory, we can't really know. Maybe he was just trying to impress or go all out. it doesn't mean he was unhinged or insane. And when someone tries to get revenge, or actually gets revenge for people bullying or being jerks, they always uses that very excuse. That the people deserved it.

And Shredder could be considered petty as well. Even though Shredder has failed time and time again, he mutates Baxter, stating that Baxter has failed too many times. Then Shredder still asks for Baxter's help at the end of the episode. That is beyond messed up.

And that's just it. We don't know what abilities or training the human had before being mutated into or with a duck. Saying he isn't a threat can't be determined yet. This is a show where a teenager(Casey Jones) was going toe to toe with a mutant ninja turtle(Raph) who had years upon years of training. If Ace Duck had any type of training with the military or martial arts, there is no telling what he is capable of. With this show, anything can happen.


Um, we haven't been TOLD that there was any problem with him before that incident, but what kind of KID would actually DO that? He'd have to have something seriously wrong in his thought process to think that was a good idea. Maybe he has a poor sense of right and wrong (ie, sociopath)? It fits with his character. But not only did he NOT take any responsibility for his actions (which is pretty indicative that he WAS sociopathic) but then he wanted to take revenge on the people who punished him! Clearly that is not the mindset of a mentally healthy individual. It's a clear sign of someone who has no concept of consequences or empathy.

Shredder is a good example of the very same thing, except that he has the Foot and years of ninja training behind him. He's more dangerous because of it, but that doesn't mean Baxter isn't just as damaged and wrong. Both of them rationalize their actions as justified because in their eyes, their rivals/enemies "deserved it".

As for the duck, let's just say that whatever the human's abilities (and we are assuming they started with a human, not an actual duck, here) the nature of the animal itself is not one that makes a dangerous threat. What's he going to do, shake feathers all over someone? Nip them with his bill? Feet are unwieldly for fighting, there are no "hands" to hold anything (birds have only ONE long finger for flying, the rest are almost non-existent) and the neck is a HUGE weak spot/target. Ducks are also not very agile flyers, and have to take off from a running or swimming start. They are heavy (as compared to most other birds in body-shape/style) and as noted before, they have no natural weaponry to fight with. Whatever abilities he has as a human would be severely hampered due to the addition of the duck attributes. They are also not among the most intelligent of birds, either, though some CAN learn to open enclosures, but that's about it.

This is all based on a working knowledge of animal anatomy and behavior. Whatever attributes the animal has would combine with the human (again, assuming the mutant STARTED as a human) and in the case of a duck would not in any way aid in a fight, unless he could fly away when getting his butt handed to him. Or drop eggs on someone- and it would have to be a female for that. Either way, not much of a threat.

Anything can happen.

I mean a fat, middle-aged man like Vic still ended up to be a very dangerous mutant on its debut. Hell, Snake, who mutated into a giant weed seems bad on "paper", but actually turned out to be a major threat, esp. in his 2nd debut.

Being a mutant duck doesn't mean the mutant will be ineffective w/ or w/o combat experience. Even Baxter after mutating into a Fly became extremely powerful and Baxter Stockman is a very weak man.

Vic was turned into a SPIDER. A natural predator and hunter. Spiders are also dangerous due to venom, multiple limbs, and speed/agility. Vic actually got one of the more dangerous mutations, IMH. Much like what happened to Peter in the Man-Spider arc of Spider-Man :TAS (as well as the Queen arc of the comics, and again, more recently with "The Other" arc.)

Snake was an interesting case. He turned into a weed. anyone who has a decent-sized lawn can probably tell you that weeds are notoriously hard to get rid of, they always seem to come back! And all joking aside, he is now a human who can literally make his own food. When he was storing those people in the pods, he was basically turning them into fertilizer. And I would seriously worry about a mutant who can grow back from even a small part of his body remaining. Think of it as the mutant that just keeps regenerating, and can grow more of himself if he really wanted to. Plants do not require food, shelter, or sleep. All they need is sunshine and some soil, and they can pop up anywhere. Especially a common weed- they are hardy, tough, and can spread by their roots, in some cases. This makes him actually very scary if he ever did this!

Baxter's mutation is one of the more grotesque, but it certainly has its advantages. Swatting flies is actually a bit difficult unless one understands how they see, and the fact that they can also feel vibrations of currents of air around them (that's what all those tiny hairs are for). They actually DO see multiple images (and in 360 degees, too!) which gives them a distinct advantage against predators moving to attack. This is why most predators of flies first sit very still and let the fly get close before striking! They are also fast and erratic, which makes them harder to catch. Baxter showed this rather well. And there's their method of eating- not only is it gross, but it allows them to pre-digest their food. Something Baxter also demonstrated. Considering how short their life-span generally is, that's a handy ability to have. And like all insects, they are durable and have their "bones" on the outside, making them more difficult to harm.

Of the ideas Baxter had prior to his mutation, the duck really WAS a very poor one, in terms of the animal itself. Regardless of what abilities the human had, the ANIMAL would not enhance those in any way, and would more likely be a hindrance to those abilities. Now, his pigs and rhinos comment- THAT was a good idea! (Both are much more dangerous than a duck would ever be....) Remember, Shredder is looking for mutants that are deadly and useful, not something that his enemies would treat as a joke! (And you KNOW the turtles WOULD!)

[blindturtle02]

I wonder if Baxter is scheming while working on Shredder's next mutant. I think he'll be flying solo again, but not before doing something to spite Shredder. Go for it, Stinkman. Defy gravity and all that jazz. Sorry about the Wicked references.

[Metalwolf]

I wonder if Baxter is scheming while working on Shredder's next mutant. I think he'll be flying solo again, but not before doing something to spite Shredder. Go for it, Stinkman. Defy gravity and all that jazz. Sorry about the Wicked references.I hope he does, just to troll Shredder. He might end up defying Shredder by making Bebop and Rocksteady, only this time modifying the mutagen to make them stupid. This would be a nice throwback to Secret of the Ooze, and give a plausible reason as to why they're moronic (instead of them being dumb even as humans, and Shredder looking silly for hiring two dimwits.) It would be nice to show that he isn't completely a wuss, and that even he has a spine if pushed too far.

[Jon_Talbain]

Um, we haven't been TOLD that there was any problem with him before that incident, but what kind of KID would actually DO that? He'd have to have something seriously wrong in his thought process to think that was a good idea. Maybe he has a poor sense of right and wrong (ie, sociopath)? It fits with his character. But not only did he NOT take any responsibility for his actions (which is pretty indicative that he WAS sociopathic) but then he wanted to take revenge on the people who punished him! Clearly that is not the mindset of a mentally healthy individual. It's a clear sign of someone who has no concept of consequences or empathy.

Shredder is a good example of the very same thing, except that he has the Foot and years of ninja training behind him. He's more dangerous because of it, but that doesn't mean Baxter isn't just as damaged and wrong. Both of them rationalize their actions as justified because in their eyes, their rivals/enemies "deserved it".

As for the duck, let's just say that whatever the human's abilities (and we are assuming they started with a human, not an actual duck, here) the nature of the animal itself is not one that makes a dangerous threat. What's he going to do, shake feathers all over someone? Nip them with his bill? Feet are unwieldly for fighting, there are no "hands" to hold anything (birds have only ONE long finger for flying, the rest are almost non-existent) and the neck is a HUGE weak spot/target. Ducks are also not very agile flyers, and have to take off from a running or swimming start. They are heavy (as compared to most other birds in body-shape/style) and as noted before, they have no natural weaponry to fight with. Whatever abilities he has as a human would be severely hampered due to the addition of the duck attributes. They are also not among the most intelligent of birds, either, though some CAN learn to open enclosures, but that's about it.

This is all based on a working knowledge of animal anatomy and behavior. Whatever attributes the animal has would combine with the human (again, assuming the mutant STARTED as a human) and in the case of a duck would not in any way aid in a fight, unless he could fly away when getting his butt handed to him. Or drop eggs on someone- and it would have to be a female for that. Either way, not much of a threat.

Simply a kid who is a scientist through and through. How many KIDS would even have the intelligence to pull that off? It isn't like he made the project to hurt anyone on purpose either. It just accidentally got out of control. Down through the years scientists blow all kinds of things up to learn something new. A lot of us didn't have the best judgement as kids and are much different as adults. I work in education and some of the things these kids are capable of could easily be considered sociopath behavior as well. Why aren't more bullies punished? Many kids are just told to take the disrespect and bullying and that isn't right either. Who can be blamed for that? Plus, Baxter said that he has been laughed at his entire life. If he is a sociopath, maybe never being taken seriously and always bullied had something to do with it. That doesn't mean they deserve to be mutated into a fly against his will.

Just about, if not every individual rationalizes what we do as right in our own eyes anyway. That is to be human. Just as what you are writing to me, you rationalize to be right in your eyes. And what I write to you, I rationalize to be right in my eyes. It is just a difference of opinion.

And from the picture of Ace Duck, he appears to have a very human body. He most likely does have human hands or feet or something close to them. And unless they show more about him, no one can say what his abilities are. Again, this is a show where TURTLES are extremely fast and are ninjas. Can a regular turtle hold things with a kung-fu grip, throw an uppercut, perform multiple back flips and have super human strength? Real life attributes of an animal seem to be only for the outward design or appearance. The rest is really whatever the writers want it to be. Shredder still should have actually seen the mutants in action before deciding they if are failures. From Shredder's reaction, he doesn't even think a mutant rhino will be a threat and that is strange too.

[Wretched Reptile]

[Edit by Machias: Fixed it for ya. :) ]

Thanks so much Machias!!! :tsmile:

I hope he does, just to troll Shredder. He might end up defying Shredder by making Bebop and Rocksteady, only this time modifying the mutagen to make them stupid. This would be a nice throwback to Secret of the Ooze, and give a plausible reason as to why they're moronic (instead of them being dumb even as humans, and Shredder looking silly for hiring two dimwits.) It would be nice to show that he isn't completely a wuss, and that even he has a spine if pushed too far.

I was wondering the same thing myself, since he mentioned big plans involving "pigs and rhinos." Your "Secret of the Ooze" homage theory is a very sound one, so we'll see. Still, I'd almost prefer a deviation where Baxter ends up going rogue again ala the OT, makes Bebop and Rocksteady for himself, messes something up in the mix because of his fly form, and winds up with two dim-witted yet somewhat lethal assistants of his own. It would make more sense than Shredder having them around in any way whatsoever. I just can't see this Shredder tolerating anything close to the characters we're still more or less expecting Bebop and Rocksteady to be, to a certain extent. He'd totally off them in like 5 minutes. :tlol:

[blindturtle02]

Oo, it'd be interesting to see those two working for Baxter instead. That makes sense. Unless they're more intelligent. Shredder might keep them around if that's the case. Still, I love the idea of Baxter being "da boss" this time around.

[Candy Kappa]

It was an excellent episode, Baxter's mutation was eerie. And his new appearance was unsettling, kudos for the show makers to include the way Flies eat into Baxter's mutated form.

and yay, Kirby is normal. But, it kinda feels this episode should have before the Mazes and Mutants episode, as a time-off would have felt more earned.

[Sighphi]

They need to stop loading things on April, she is psychic, she is the key to creating the perfect mutagen by the Krang, and she is also needed to create retromutagen. What's next? Im sure she is going to be the key to traveling to other dimensions or something.

[snake]

It was an excellent episode, Baxter's mutation was eerie. And his new appearance was unsettling, kudos for the show makers to include the way Flies eat into Baxter's mutated form.

and yay, Kirby is normal. But, it kinda feels this episode should have been after the Mazes and Mutants episode, as a time-off would have felt more earned.

It was after Mazes and Mutants.....

[DarkLightDragon]

That's why he said it should've been.

[BabyTurtles]

They need to stop loading things on April, she is psychic, she is the key to creating the perfect mutagen by the Krang, and she is also needed to create retromutagen. What's next? Im sure she is going to be the key to traveling to other dimensions or something.

well now you jinxed it :D

I also think they need to slow down with her.

at this point I'd much rather they bring in another person/alien/mutant that is a "key" to something instead of giving April all this power.

[NoName999]

They need to stop loading things on April, she is psychic, she is the key to creating the perfect mutagen by the Krang, and she is also needed to create retromutagen. What's next? Im sure she is going to be the key to traveling to other dimensions or something.

I can forgive all of that if it's revealed that she's a drawing like her Mirage counterpart.

For lulz

well now you jinxed it :D

I also think they need to slow down with her.

at this point I'd much rather they bring in another person/alien/mutant that is a "key" to something instead of giving April all this power.

That's another thing. How is it that we simultaneously know so much ABOUT April while knowing so little about APRIL?

[Candy Kappa]

It was after Mazes and Mutants.....
Oops... I meant before Mazes and Monsters.

[BabyTurtles]

That's another thing. How is it that we simultaneously know so much ABOUT April while knowing so little about APRIL?

we know what she is.
(kraang/human mutant, key to the mutagen, has psychic abilities)

we just don't know who she is.
(likes, dislikes, pet peeves, hobbies, goals)

even we know more about who Casey is.
likes: kicking bad buy butt, monologuing lol
dislikes: evil mutants/bad guys, studying (and apparently Irma XD) oh and rats let's not forget rats!
pet peeves: being underestimated
hobbies: hockey, making tricked out weapons, spray painting
goals: becoming a vigilante/bounty hunter or professional hockey player

now let's look at April
likes:............she seems to like going on her computer and searching...stuff?
dislikes.....??
pet peeves: being left out (but I wonder if that was always her pet peeve or something that happened after she met the turtles...)
hobbies:......err....training with master Splinter? (again something that happened after she met the turtles)
goals: not getting abducted by the kraang?

[Candy Kappa]

And Casey have a real character growth of overcoming his phobia of rats.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Simply a kid who is a scientist through and through. How many KIDS would even have the intelligence to pull that off? It isn't like he made the project to hurt anyone on purpose either. It just accidentally got out of control. Down through the years scientists blow all kinds of things up to learn something new. A lot of us didn't have the best judgement as kids and are much different as adults. I work in education and some of the things these kids are capable of could easily be considered sociopath behavior as well. Why aren't more bullies punished? Many kids are just told to take the disrespect and bullying and that isn't right either. Who can be blamed for that? Plus, Baxter said that he has been laughed at his entire life. If he is a sociopath, maybe never being taken seriously and always bullied had something to do with it. That doesn't mean they deserve to be mutated into a fly against his will.

Just about, if not every individual rationalizes what we do as right in our own eyes anyway. That is to be human. Just as what you are writing to me, you rationalize to be right in your eyes. And what I write to you, I rationalize to be right in my eyes. It is just a difference of opinion.

And from the picture of Ace Duck, he appears to have a very human body. He most likely does have human hands or feet or something close to them. And unless they show more about him, no one can say what his abilities are. Again, this is a show where TURTLES are extremely fast and are ninjas. Can a regular turtle hold things with a kung-fu grip, throw an uppercut, perform multiple back flips and have super human strength? Real life attributes of an animal seem to be only for the outward design or appearance. The rest is really whatever the writers want it to be. Shredder still should have actually seen the mutants in action before deciding they if are failures. From Shredder's reaction, he doesn't even think a mutant rhino will be a threat and that is strange too.


See, There's an inherent flaw in that argument with Baxter, though. You're assuming that the bullying and his age were the only factors in his "lapse of judgment" as you seem to see it. It was far worse than that, though. He showed a basic inability to connect his actions to the likely consequences, and also to take any responsibility for his own mistakes. He clearly had no parental discipline, either, if he was even ALLOWED to get that far with his experiment! All of this leads to the obvious conclusion that he was a very disturbed individual to begin with. Sometimes bad apples really DO crop up. Most kids don't try to show their intelligence or creativity by nearly burning down their school, either. Nor do most people build weaponized robotic suits to "get back" at the people who bully them, because they understand that it is WRONG. His actions are much like those of kids who go on school shooting sprees, and blame all their problems and mistakes on others, because they have no sense of right and wrong.

By rationalizing it, I meant that in his own eyes, he was justified- and never mind that society says such actions are completely immoral and unethical. He didn't care what anyone else thought, or about who it might hurt- he simply cared about doing what he wanted(the school gym), or getting his paybacks(with the suit). That's a very low-level stage of psychological development. Most likely a stage 1 or 2, in fact. He thinks only of his own self and feelings, rather than how it will affect others, and sees nothing wrong with doing whatever he thinks he can get away with. This is the mindset of a psychologically stunted individual, or a very YOUNG child, before morality is learned.

As mentioned before, I WAS assuming he started with a human (which in itself is disturbing, as it means he is doing unethical experiments on human subjects- another sign that he had NO concept of morality), but even so, a duck's wings ARE it's "arms/hands", so that idea goes right out the window as soon as it becomes capable of flight. They would become useless for holding things, using tools, or any other type of manipulation, due to the alteration into said wings! Also, even if he somehow managed to retain the ability to use his hands- and never mind that his fingers would be incredibly awkward for it due to length- he could not fly and fight at the same time, simply because he would need his hands/wings to do one OR the other, NOT both. It's impractical at best, and that's assuming the mutation even came out favorably! Just from the picture, he also probably can't talk, or if he can, it's poorly, at best. That bill would be poorly suited to articulating properly.

The turtles and Splinter are among the FEW mutations that have proven viable or beneficial in any way. Even Dogpound and Fishface are barely able to fight effectively. Dogpound was slow, clumsy, and too big, while Fishface needed robotic legs and a breathing apparatus just to be able to fight at all! Turtles are also not as useless as one might think- their shell provided natural armor (good against some weapons) and the aquatic ones are actually much faster and more agile than most people think- in water, at least.

[victory_angel]

while Fishface needed robotic legs and a breathing apparatus just to be able to fight at all!

He needs a breathing apparatus and robot legs on dry land. Being a fish he'd have the upper ground against the Turtles in the water, because they would need to surface in order to breath. Fishface on the other hand isn't hindered by that and could use his speed and agility in the water to not only prevent the Turtles from going up and grabbing a breath. But to make any attempts to surface for air costly mistakes.

[Metalwolf]

As mentioned before, I WAS assuming he started with a human (which in itself is disturbing, as it means he is doing unethical experiments on human subjects- another sign that he had NO concept of morality), but even so, a duck's wings ARE it's "arms/hands", so that idea goes right out the window as soon as it becomes capable of flight.
But what he was talking about were ideas for mutations not anything that actually existed. Otherwise we'd see these mutants running around. The duck picture looked like he simply cut and several pictures together, and said 'This is what I can make with the mutagen.'

I did look up the legal definition of 'accidental fire' versus 'arson.' Per Laws.com:

"Accidental fires are usually not prosecuted as arson. If however, an accidental fire occurs because of demonstrably gross negligence or a casual disregard for the consequences of setting the fire, these fires can cease to be judged as accidental and may instead be seen as arson fires."

So you are right with the school expelling him. I think though that his parents should have gotten him counseling though, especially since he mentioned that people were laughing at him when he was a kid and that it did end up affecting him badly. That can make a person mean and bitter, and in some people makes them lash out violently. It's not an excuse, but it is a reason.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

What does everyone think of Baxter bugging out?
I think it's better then 2k3's Baxter losing a bit more of himself after every screw up

I'm the opposite, I prefer Baxter losing pieces of his body because it shows more tragedy than just turning him into a fly again. I really wanted Nick to try something different with him but I did overall enjoy the episode. I liked how Baxter was twitching his head. I found that creepy, lol. I think Nick handled Baxter's fly mutation better than Fred Wolf did but I still would have liked something different for Baxter because personally, I never cared for Fly Baxter, even as a kid.

[Jon_Talbain]

See, There's an inherent flaw in that argument with Baxter, though. You're assuming that the bullying and his age were the only factors in his "lapse of judgment" as you seem to see it. It was far worse than that, though. He showed a basic inability to connect his actions to the likely consequences, and also to take any responsibility for his own mistakes. He clearly had no parental discipline, either, if he was even ALLOWED to get that far with his experiment! All of this leads to the obvious conclusion that he was a very disturbed individual to begin with. Sometimes bad apples really DO crop up. Most kids don't try to show their intelligence or creativity by nearly burning down their school, either. Nor do most people build weaponized robotic suits to "get back" at the people who bully them, because they understand that it is WRONG. His actions are much like those of kids who go on school shooting sprees, and blame all their problems and mistakes on others, because they have no sense of right and wrong.

By rationalizing it, I meant that in his own eyes, he was justified- and never mind that society says such actions are completely immoral and unethical. He didn't care what anyone else thought, or about who it might hurt- he simply cared about doing what he wanted(the school gym), or getting his paybacks(with the suit). That's a very low-level stage of psychological development. Most likely a stage 1 or 2, in fact. He thinks only of his own self and feelings, rather than how it will affect others, and sees nothing wrong with doing whatever he thinks he can get away with. This is the mindset of a psychologically stunted individual, or a very YOUNG child, before morality is learned.

As mentioned before, I WAS assuming he started with a human (which in itself is disturbing, as it means he is doing unethical experiments on human subjects- another sign that he had NO concept of morality), but even so, a duck's wings ARE it's "arms/hands", so that idea goes right out the window as soon as it becomes capable of flight. They would become useless for holding things, using tools, or any other type of manipulation, due to the alteration into said wings! Also, even if he somehow managed to retain the ability to use his hands- and never mind that his fingers would be incredibly awkward for it due to length- he could not fly and fight at the same time, simply because he would need his hands/wings to do one OR the other, NOT both. It's impractical at best, and that's assuming the mutation even came out favorably! Just from the picture, he also probably can't talk, or if he can, it's poorly, at best. That bill would be poorly suited to articulating properly.

The turtles and Splinter are among the FEW mutations that have proven viable or beneficial in any way. Even Dogpound and Fishface are barely able to fight effectively. Dogpound was slow, clumsy, and too big, while Fishface needed robotic legs and a breathing apparatus just to be able to fight at all! Turtles are also not as useless as one might think- their shell provided natural armor (good against some weapons) and the aquatic ones are actually much faster and more agile than most people think- in water, at least.

You are also assuming most of what you just wrote. We haven't seen who his parents are or if there was anything else going on other than the bullying. Most of what both of us are debating about are just assumptions. The only way we will know is if Nick shows more of his past, which I hope they do. But one of my main points was that Baxter didn't deserve to be mutated because of mutants that were considered failures before the mutants even had a chance to do anything. And do bullies know right from wrong? If they do, they don't really seem to care. So why don't bullies have more consequences? You obviously make good points, but some situations aren't that black and white. Some of the people that go on shooting sprees were simply nice people that became far too damaged BECAUSE of society. When people bring the common good up and society, I just have to shake my head. There are great people out there yes, but there are just as many jerks and douche bags that love hurting others mentally, as well as physically. Everyone is a different individual. Some of us can go through anything and be strong enough to take it. Others may snap and go on a shooting spree. We can't just say they were crazy to begin with or didn't know right from wrong. It could be tons of other factors.

Shredder may have been the one that brought the human subjects for Baxter to experiment on, if there were human subjects. Baxter was there against his will, so it isn't like he had much choice in the matter. Plus Baxter was trying to save himself, but that still didn't turn out well in the end. Unless in that type of situation, how can anyone say what they are capable of. And we still don't know if Ace Duck has hands or what. We all know the mutagen is unstable and unpredictable. Ace Duck can have stronger hands than a human for all we know. If you watch the new Pizza Face episode, you can see that it doesn't matter what you mutate into. You can still be a threat. It still all comes down to what Nick wants. They can give Ace Duck the strength of 100 men and sing like Sinatra if they want him to.

Yes, turtles have the shell for armor. But on land, they are slower than most animals, and that is a fact. With us seeing giant human turtles moving at the speed of light , having super human strength, and agility like a gymnast just lets us know that with this show, anything is possible. That is all I am trying to say. Real life logic just doesn't work in a lot of the situations.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

I don't know how many TMNT fans are familiar with the David Cronenberg re-make of the movie "The Fly" starring Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis, which would have come out in the late seventies or early eighties but the episode of the Nick show is a pretty blatant reference to it, although somewhat more humorous. In both the 2K3 series and the DreamWave comic loosely based on it, Baxter had an almost Freudian obsession with April O' Neil that centered around his relationship with his mother. In the cartoon, Baxter is given a new body which begins to fall apart, just as Seth Brundle's body began to deteriorate when he began evolving into "BrundleFly" in the Cronenberg movie.

In the Nick show, Baxter goes so far as to call himself "StockmanFly" which is a blatant reference to the character as portrayed by Jeff Goldblum. Baxter wants to mutate himself again with April in hopes that he will regain some of his humanity as a result-- upon learning that Brundle had gotten Davis' character pregnant, he tried to force her to enter his teleportation chamber with him (the one he invented that combined he and the fly into one entity in the first place) so that the two of them and the unborn baby could be assimilated into one being that as a result would be more human than he was otherwise. I noticed several other nods to the film while watching the episode but can't remember them off the top of my head.

Baxter is typically portrayed as somewhat spineless, even in Mirage-- he is a threat due to his brains, not his brawn and he is aware of this. Any time Baxter is mutated he develops a false sense of confidence due to the strength and speed of his fly attributes. This was also somewhat the case in the movie "The Fly" starring Jeff Goldblum.

[Metalwolf]

I'd seen that movie. I think it is the best version actually :lol:


I wonder if BaxterFly will start losing his mind, or if he's going to keep both his mind and intelligence. I'd love to see him try to turn on Shredder (since he has nothing to lose anymore) and really use it as a payback for his treatment of him.

[blindturtle02]

Metalwolf, hopefully he'll keep his mind and intelligence. I think it would be a treat to see him as a bit more deranged. I think they touched on that in this episode when he sought to fuse with April. You could sort of hear it in the way he was describing it. "You go here, and I go there, then I press the button and we fall in, etc." Sort of sounded a bit disjointed at some points. "Stockman fly doesn't trust anybody! anybody! No escape! Noooo escape!" lol He certainly seemed more jittery as a fly which was a nice touch. Maybe if he does start losing his intelligence, Shredder will choose to demutate him so as not to waste his scientific potential. Maybe it's just me, but I thought I detected a bit of deception in his brown-nosing at episode's end. There was just something about his tone of voice. Wondering if he's cooking up something devious behind Shredder's back.

[Metalwolf]

Metalwolf, hopefully he'll keep his mind and intelligence. I think it would be a treat to see him as a bit more deranged. I think they touched on that in this episode when he sought to fuse with April. You could sort of hear it in the way he was describing it. "You go here, and I go there, then I press the button and we fall in, etc." Sort of sounded a bit disjointed at some points. "Stockman fly doesn't trust anybody! anybody! No escape! Noooo escape!" lol He certainly seemed more jittery as a fly which was a nice touch. Maybe if he does start losing his intelligence, Shredder will choose to demutate him so as not to waste his scientific potential. Maybe it's just me, but I thought I detected a bit of deception in his brown-nosing at episode's end. There was just something about his tone of voice. Wondering if he's cooking up something devious behind Shredder's back.Yeah, I loved how he was in it, I'm guessing being a jittery insect is messing with his thinking. :P

I don't think he'll lose his intelligence, because Shredder would have a hard time demutating anyway him since Stockman would forget how to work out the chemistry to create a retromutagen.

Also if the Turtles come up with another batch, Shredder will have to specifically order his other henchmen not to use it on themselves before Baxter can analyze it, or they won't be able to figure out how to recreate it.

[MCLeo28]

Yep, I loved it how Baxter Stockman was damaged mentally and glad I wasn't the only one to notice how he said he can't trust anybody.

He finally realized that no matter where he went, he was still pathetic and ridiculed, and to make matters worse, the only place that he at least had a chance to succeed betrayed him and turned him into a freak. Now, he realizes that he can't trust anybody and that was a nice touch because it shows he was really mentally damaged severely. I wouldn't be surprised that once he's cured that he won't be the same like he was prior to mutation.

[blindturtle02]

The title of this one really says it all, I think. Gave me chills when I first read it. Quite creepy, yet tragic at the same time.

[shihe]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was bothered by the fact that Donatello said he needed like 10 canisters of Mutagen to produce 1 canister of retro-mutagen. And was bummed because he no longer had any more mutagen..

But they completely ignored the fact that Baxter had posession of a giant glass container overflowing with mutagen in his warehouse/lab.

Despite this.. the episode was pretty awesome. A lot of mutant action.

[JTH]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was bothered by the fact that Donatello said he needed like 10 canisters of Mutagen to produce 1 canister of retro-mutagen. And was bummed because he no longer had any more mutagen..

But they completely ignored the fact that Baxter had posession of a giant glass container overflowing with mutagen in his warehouse/lab.

Despite this.. the episode was pretty awesome. A lot of mutant action.
They didn't ignore it, that would just have been stealing.

Teaching good morals to the bitter end. :P

[pennydreadful]

I have nothing particularly intelligent to add at this stage - I just wanted to say that I love this forum. I love that y'all obsess and analyse these things as much as I do. :D Head gloms to you all - your in-depth analyses of Baxter's mental state makes me happy in that special, nerdy way.

[Cure]

What the hell is a head glom? Google doesn't even know.

[pennydreadful]

What the hell is a head glom? Google doesn't even know.

A head-glom is the bastard love-child of a nom and a glomp - generally used to display affection. :D

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You are also assuming most of what you just wrote. We haven't seen who his parents are or if there was anything else going on other than the bullying. Most of what both of us are debating about are just assumptions. The only way we will know is if Nick shows more of his past, which I hope they do. But one of my main points was that Baxter didn't deserve to be mutated because of mutants that were considered failures before the mutants even had a chance to do anything. And do bullies know right from wrong? If they do, they don't really seem to care. So why don't bullies have more consequences? You obviously make good points, but some situations aren't that black and white. Some of the people that go on shooting sprees were simply nice people that became far too damaged BECAUSE of society. When people bring the common good up and society, I just have to shake my head. There are great people out there yes, but there are just as many jerks and douche bags that love hurting others mentally, as well as physically. Everyone is a different individual. Some of us can go through anything and be strong enough to take it. Others may snap and go on a shooting spree. We can't just say they were crazy to begin with or didn't know right from wrong. It could be tons of other factors.

Shredder may have been the one that brought the human subjects for Baxter to experiment on, if there were human subjects. Baxter was there against his will, so it isn't like he had much choice in the matter. Plus Baxter was trying to save himself, but that still didn't turn out well in the end. Unless in that type of situation, how can anyone say what they are capable of. And we still don't know if Ace Duck has hands or what. We all know the mutagen is unstable and unpredictable. Ace Duck can have stronger hands than a human for all we know. If you watch the new Pizza Face episode, you can see that it doesn't matter what you mutate into. You can still be a threat. It still all comes down to what Nick wants. They can give Ace Duck the strength of 100 men and sing like Sinatra if they want him to.

Yes, turtles have the shell for armor. But on land, they are slower than most animals, and that is a fact. With us seeing giant human turtles moving at the speed of light , having super human strength, and agility like a gymnast just lets us know that with this show, anything is possible. That is all I am trying to say. Real life logic just doesn't work in a lot of the situations.


Of course I was assuming that- I even stated such. That was also assuming he ever actually created such a mutant at all, which I doubt he did, as we've seen no evidence of one beyond the photo that appeared photo-shopped anyway. I doubt it would have a human body and a duck's head, it would probably resemble something closer to Howard (remember him? I mentioned him earlier.) or possibly Donald. On second thought, the idea of a duck pilot suddenly makes me think of Launchpad from Ducktales. I'd kind of like something like that, but I doubt Disney would ever allow it. Marvel(again, under Disney) probably wouldn't allow anything too close to Howard, either. Two very good reasons why he(Ace) will likely never appear in the show- Disney/Marvel seems to have a monopoly on duck-type characters, not counting WB's Daffy.

Also, not all turtles are slow, even on land. Ever watched a Slider scooting along on lake-shore? Not especially graceful, I grant you, but fairly quick, all the same. And box turtles are fairly adept at moving quickly when the need arises. And if all else fails, they can still tuck inside their shells.

You have been speaking of Stockman as if he NEVER had any choice in his actions, and that just isn't true. Until he was captured and forced to work for Shredder, all of his actions were made by his own choice. He built the death-maze that trapped the turtles and Dogpound/Fishface, with the specific intention of killing them all. That is seriously twisted. It's almost a SAW-level kind of torture.

He also spoke of taking violent revenge on people whose only real offense was to "laugh" at him or not take him seriously. Everyone gets laughed at, at some point. But it has been shown that people who "snap" and go on violent rampages typically have some form of mental instability long before the outburst. "He was always so quiet and kept to himself....." Sound familiar? It should. What separates normal people from those who snap and commit acts of violence is not strength, but mental and emotional stability. There are often signs long before it happens, even if most never see them. Watch any news report on the subject, or read an any article after such an event. It always comes out eventually, how they were antisocial, loners, had few friends, were bullied, razzed, misunderstood, felt ostracized, etc. Most people can handle the occasional pokes and jabs by their peers just fine, but unbalanced individuals take it far more personally, and often become overwhelmingly bitter, frustrated, angry, and jealous.

Also, it seems almost like you were excusing Baxter on the grounds of bullying, and suggesting that I said he deserved his mutation. Never said that. Shredder was a douche for doing that, be he was one, too, for everything he'd done up to that point. And an even bigger one after he mutated, for attempting to use April to "cure" himself, a la Goldblum's "Brundlefly". He used Shredder's punishment as justification for yet another bad decision. Never in all the episodes he's been in, has he ever taken any responsibility for his own actions or decisions, nor did he ever seem to care about consequences. He cared only for himself, period. THAT is sociopathic behavior, if ever there was any!

[Shark_Blade]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was bothered by the fact that Donatello said he needed like 10 canisters of Mutagen to produce 1 canister of retro-mutagen. And was bummed because he no longer had any more mutagen..

But they completely ignored the fact that Baxter had posession of a giant glass container overflowing with mutagen in his warehouse/lab.

Despite this.. the episode was pretty awesome. A lot of mutant action.

Now that you mentioned it...

Yeah why the heck did he not take it all? No need to hunt for canisters anymore.

Oh wait, writers' plot convenience. For all we know it's gone now, Baxter disposed of it probably, the room exploded maybe, stolen by Kraang, etc.

Shouldn't make it too easy for our heroes now..

[victory_angel]

Never in all the episodes he's been in, has he ever taken any responsibility for his own actions or decisions, nor did he ever seem to care about consequences. He cared only for himself, period. THAT is sociopathic behavior, if ever there was any!

Actually that's not entirely true. While you are correct in saying that he has never taken any responsibility for his "Own" actions. He does however take responsibility and wishes to make amends for the failure of his plan when they were trying to get that "Sub-spacial Endo-partical Disrupter".

But even then he's not sorry for his failure, but rather feels that if he can eliminating the Shredder's hench-mutants and the turtles so that no one would disrespect him again.

[Jon_Talbain]

Of course I was assuming that- I even stated such. That was also assuming he ever actually created such a mutant at all, which I doubt he did, as we've seen no evidence of one beyond the photo that appeared photo-shopped anyway. I doubt it would have a human body and a duck's head, it would probably resemble something closer to Howard (remember him? I mentioned him earlier.) or possibly Donald. On second thought, the idea of a duck pilot suddenly makes me think of Launchpad from Ducktales. I'd kind of like something like that, but I doubt Disney would ever allow it. Marvel(again, under Disney) probably wouldn't allow anything too close to Howard, either. Two very good reasons why he(Ace) will likely never appear in the show- Disney/Marvel seems to have a monopoly on duck-type characters, not counting WB's Daffy.

Also, not all turtles are slow, even on land. Ever watched a Slider scooting along on lake-shore? Not especially graceful, I grant you, but fairly quick, all the same. And box turtles are fairly adept at moving quickly when the need arises. And if all else fails, they can still tuck inside their shells.

You have been speaking of Stockman as if he NEVER had any choice in his actions, and that just isn't true. Until he was captured and forced to work for Shredder, all of his actions were made by his own choice. He built the death-maze that trapped the turtles and Dogpound/Fishface, with the specific intention of killing them all. That is seriously twisted. It's almost a SAW-level kind of torture.

He also spoke of taking violent revenge on people whose only real offense was to "laugh" at him or not take him seriously. Everyone gets laughed at, at some point. But it has been shown that people who "snap" and go on violent rampages typically have some form of mental instability long before the outburst. "He was always so quiet and kept to himself....." Sound familiar? It should. What separates normal people from those who snap and commit acts of violence is not strength, but mental and emotional stability. There are often signs long before it happens, even if most never see them. Watch any news report on the subject, or read an any article after such an event. It always comes out eventually, how they were antisocial, loners, had few friends, were bullied, razzed, misunderstood, felt ostracized, etc. Most people can handle the occasional pokes and jabs by their peers just fine, but unbalanced individuals take it far more personally, and often become overwhelmingly bitter, frustrated, angry, and jealous.

Also, it seems almost like you were excusing Baxter on the grounds of bullying, and suggesting that I said he deserved his mutation. Never said that. Shredder was a douche for doing that, be he was one, too, for everything he'd done up to that point. And an even bigger one after he mutated, for attempting to use April to "cure" himself, a la Goldblum's "Brundlefly". He used Shredder's punishment as justification for yet another bad decision. Never in all the episodes he's been in, has he ever taken any responsibility for his own actions or decisions, nor did he ever seem to care about consequences. He cared only for himself, period. THAT is sociopathic behavior, if ever there was any!

There is a classic Ace Duck already. There are picture of his design from back then. And I doubt Nick would design a character that is close to Donald, Howard or Daffy. Hopefully we will see what he really looks like eventually, but he will probably be much more of humanoid or an anthro. Maybe something more along the lines of The Mighty Ducks. And there can be similarities between character designs, even from another company. Marvel and DC have so many characters alike it is sometimes hard to tell who even owns them.

And some turtles might be able to go faster. But do any of the ninja turtles' species move fast? I know some places they tell what type of turtle each ninja turtle got mutated from. But even so, being able to do aerials and back flips just don't work into a turtle's physical form. Once again, real life logic and characteristics don't matter. This is a show were a mutant pizza is a threat. But a mutant duck can't be? Nick can write that the duck as taloned feet that rival Wolverine's claws if they want to.

And that's true, I agree. Some people can't handle that society can be douches as well. School and work can be a horror story for certain people. Just as some people are quiet and reserved, there are those that are loud and egotistical. Some people end up going on a killing spree, others commit suicide. I am not saying this type of behavior should be fully excused, but some of these situations have multiple factors. No one should be bullied in the first place, but it happens so often and most of the time bullying isn't even dealt with. People are just told to ignore it and move on. Simply because we should be conditioned enough to handle it? And just as it happens time and time again, someone else will snap and go on a killing spree. Yes, part of it is the murderer's fault, but part of it is society's fault as well.

Why is someone anti-social? Or why is someone a loner? Is it the person's own fault? Or they people around them? Or both? And every loner is automatically unbalanced? And no, I don't fully excuse Baxter. He is written as a bit of a tragic villain. If he had accepted responsibility or just found another job instead of trying to destroy or kill, maybe he would have a better fate now. At first I thought you were saying he deserved to be mutated, but I now see that you aren't.

[ssjup81]

I found Baxter's mutation creepy, but the ep was still interesting. What I don't get, though, was Donny. He said he needed a lot more mutagen. Baxter was loaded with the stuff...why didn't he just load up on the stuff after everything was said and done?

[shihe]

I found Baxter's mutation creepy, but the ep was still interesting. What I don't get, though, was Donny. He said he needed a lot more mutagen. Baxter was loaded with the stuff...why didn't he just load up on the stuff after everything was said and done?

Precisely.

If all that's needed was April's DNA on the mutagen, that giant container should've become one giant container of retro-mutagen after April was dipped in it.

I mean hair, sweat, skin particles, all of that stuff has DNA too.

[sdp]

I actually enjoyed the episode, I also have come to terms with this version of the turtles being a mutantfest. However while I liked the episode and liked Stockman fly I still don't like this version of Stockman and both 2k3 and OT versions are far better. The new Leo VA is not a bad Leo voice but it definitely sticks out after being used to this versions Leo. I actually felt the same about some of the OT episode recasts, but I'm not happy with him replacing him forever..

[ssjup81]

You're not alone. I don't like Baxter in this version either. I don't even feel fully sorry for him. His situation is unfortunate, but I felt way sorrier for OT Baxter because if how he was pretty much thrown into the situation.

[Sumac]

Unpleasant episode.
Starting from Baxter mutation to the way he "eat"...just...blargh.

Premise of the episode was cool - three parties hunting down the retromutagen for their own purposes, but it felt really half-cooked and less then average. Baxter's mutation was uncalled for - he was barely developed as a character and his transformation hasn't brought anything new to the table, well, except it had made him disgusting...which is not much.

I think I dislike this version of Shredder even more so than his 2k3 counterpart. At least Ch'rell had presence and while he was a genocidal maniac, he had mind and cunningness to be respected and afraid of. This Shredder is sort of like carbon copy of Ch'rell minus cunningness and presence, which makes him boring. At least Kraang are entertaining to certain degree.

At least Kirby is back to normal and Don had some kisses.
And cameo of Ace Duck was fun.