Alan Ritchson says new movie "honors the origin story"

[sethmartin]

"Having grown up with it myself, I think we’ve honored the origin story and those diehard fans that want to see the best of what the turtles have to offer."



http://www.blankmaninc.com/alan-ritchson-interview/



Nice!

[SwiftNinjaFox]

This? This **** right here?

This is what I'm talking about.

I think I've made it clear I don't like the way they look, but here's one of the actors at least talking about it, being up front and talking about the why behind it. And while I will always be a little skeptical of anything someone on the project says before release, this made me think "alright, I hear what you're saying...I can give you a chance with this."

It's like right at 3 months to release. Get these guys in the interviews. I liked what Ritchson had to say here. GIMME MORE.

Only two questions of a 3 page interview, but it's something. It's some insight from an actor's perspective on the project. Some of it is a little "typical actor talk," but you always should expect that from every film. ;)

Nice find seth. Thanks for sharing :D

[sethmartin]

The design of the turtles is different but I think once emerged into the film, people will get use to it. It's the story, plot, origin, and characters that are the most important to me. Make the turtles look however you want but keep their personalities intact.

Evan Daugherty also did an interview several months back where he stated that his draft of the script honors the origin as well. Although I think they've mixed in the IDW origin with it.

[TigerClaw]

Here's the part he talks about TMNT.

BMi: Speaking of huge movies… you are starring as Raphael in the upcoming Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. The Turtles fanbase is rabid and they’ve been skeptical of the film ever since it was first announced. What can you tell fans to let them know everything is going to be alright?

AR: From the early leaked scripts, where it’s like an alien generation of this story less true to the origin story, and people thinking the entire time that that’s what this film is going to be about…has sort of been on the forefront of my mind while we’re working on this. The internet’s a dangerous place because people believe what they read and they cling to it as truth and they can assault you with that as if it were real. It’s been frustrating in the sense that people are already dogging the movie and they’ve been dogging it before it was in production. They’ve already written it off as a Michael Bay failure but what people don’t know is that this story is actually really great. Having grown up with it myself, I think we’ve honored the origin story and those diehard fans that want to see the best of what the turtles have to offer. It has been incredible to see the attention this film has been getting. I think we set a record for trailer views the first week the trailer was released. Thirty one million views in a week just for the trailer. People want to see the turtles, they want to see what they look like and they want to see that world.

Another thing, once that trailer was released a lot of people were unhappy with the way that they looked, complaining that they didn’t look like the turtles in the tmnt 2014(1990) film or from the comics. They’re more kind of a humanized version. I can say that I’m pretty certain that there’s a really good reason that they look the way they do and in order for us to really bring the turtles to life with the technology that we have in a way that’s never been done before, which is trying to capture the nuances of a human performance, and copy and paste that onto a turtle there was no other way than to humanize their face a little bit because a traditional turtle’s mouth couldn’t be translated into that human DNA. There’s no way to make that performance translate and what we’re trying to do is to create a truer more real life performance. The look has to do with the fact that we’re trying to get the most nuanced human performance possible which is what somebody is going to relate to when they feel like these guys are a living, breathing thing. I think people, once they connect with these characters and they see how real that experience is, I think all will be forgiven. Honestly, I’m proud of the product that’s being put out there. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun and I think a lot of people are really going to enjoy it.

BMi: Raphael was a huge part of the original 1990 film’s plot because he really did have the most character development in that film. What do you think has been the biggest difference between that character and your portrayal?

AR: In a lot of ways it’s still the same character. He’s still the angry hothead who’d rather take action than think about the implications of that action so in a lot of ways we’re still telling a lot of the same story. I think what we tried to do was to reach deeper and find other layers to these characters so they’re not so “one note”. I think in the past everybody sort of plays a caricature, like one dimension of humanity in a sense. I just think that the individuality and the depth of Raph and the turtles in this story is much, much richer. That’s something that we as actors focused on and I think it’s supported by the technology that’s helping to bring that story to life and the script that we ended up working with ultimately. It’s still a fun action/adventure movie but there’s a lot of heart and truth to the character that I think hasn’t really been expressed on film before.

[MastahShredder]

Raph had some of the most emotional scenes in 1990. I'll believe it when I see it.

Hopefully he is right.

[TurtleTitan97]

You'll pardon me if I don't really take his word for it. Because it's gonna take some major convincing for me to support this movie.

[sethmartin]

"It’s still a fun action/adventure movie but there’s a lot of heart and truth to the character that I think hasn’t really been expressed on film before."

I like hearing things like this. Keeping the turtles personalities consistent with what we grew up with has always been the most important thing to me about this movie. I can let a lot of other things slide as long as I feel like I'm watching those same characters that I know and love.

[DioLeo451]

I'm glad he was able to address this it really makes me happy and gives me hope on what to expect two more months man so pumped:tgrin:

[Shark_Blade]

I have nothing to worry about, very optimistic since the start. :tcool:

[Galactus]

I'm certain he wholeheartedly believes what he's saying...but I think previous interviews have given away he's not so knowledgeable or has a faulty memory when it comes to TMNT to accurately gauge whether it really honors it or whether fans will come around to it.

I even see it in this interview. I never really thought the turtles from the 1990 movie were really one note. They pretty much run the whole gamut of emotions at appropriate times but I'm not going to fault him for not remembering a movie from over two decades ago.

I've suspected for a while that the fear of over-blowing their characters (and lack of screen time) means that the turtles will generally be characterized more or less the same - presumably like what they think "real" teenagers act like same save for a few moments to remind us "oh he's the smart one"...well that and their accessories may as well be permanent neon signs to remind us of their characters.

[sethmartin]

From Evan Daugherty who was hired in early 2013 to do rewrites to the script-

" ...these projects stay in development for a long time. Therefore different drafts are written, where people (writers) go in different directions and sometimes stray from the source material. I'm a massive fan of the Ninja Turtles: I had all the toys, I watched all the cartoons all the time when I was a kid. So when I came onboard, I wanted to make sure that the core things of the mythology remained."

He goes onto say...

(Continuing) "so in terms of pleasing the fans and remaining faithful to the source material of the Ninja Turtles, I think people will not be disappointed at all. All I can say is that it will be a Ninja Turtles movie. It's going to be a really GREAT Ninja Turtles movie!"


Several people involved with this film have stated that this movie remains true to the source material but so many people insist that they are all lying. I guess we will know for sure on August 8. I trust the people involved. Not saying that this film will be a masterpiece but from everything I've seen and heard from the ACTUAL production seems to stay consistent to the turtles, incorporates the things we love, and looks like it will at least be a fun entertaining movie.

[Fjaj]

I even see it in this interview. I never really thought the turtles from the 1990 movie were really one note. They pretty much run the whole gamut of emotions at appropriate times but I'm not going to fault him for not remembering a movie from over two decades ago.


I, personally, do not really like the 1990 movie. It's fun if you're a TMNT fan, but it's still not a very good movie. And I also thought that they lacked a lot of personality and emotion, and when they did display any it seemed very forced. And the majority of the voice acting sucked, too, which didn't help things. They're probably the least characterized incarnation of the turtles.

This is all, of course, in my opinion and I am stating it because it's similar to Ritchson's, so that people could understand if he has similar thoughts.

[GrapeSoda]

Meh. I think his defense of the awful faces is pretty weak. It would totally be possible to convey emotion with CGI without Shrek monsters. Just look at what DreamWorks and Pixar are capable of.

The whole 2 questions he answered about TMNT just sounded like PR damage control...the second answer even more so. i wonder how this is testing with screenings.

[sethmartin]

I, personally, do not really like the 1990 movie. It's fun if you're a TMNT fan, but it's still not a very good movie. And I also thought that they lacked a lot of personality and emotion, and when they did display any it seemed very forced. And the majority of the voice acting sucked, too, which didn't help things. They're probably the least characterized incarnation of the turtles.

I like the 1990 movie but I can understand what you are saying here. It certainly isn't a masterpiece. You can even go back and read the critic reviews for it or watch the Siskel and Ebert episode where they talk about it and all of those critics even though they bash it make really good points. However, a lot of us have been life long fans of the turtles and remember that movie as part of our childhood so when we think about it, we incorporate all of that stuff into it which makes the movie seem to be much better than it actually is. There ARE some great emotional scenes most of which involving Splinter like the campfire scene or the scenes where Splinter talks to Danny. Raphael isn't really THAT emotional, it just seems like it because he's more emotional than the other turtles.

"They're probably the least characterized incarnation of the turtles."

I don't know about that. It's certainly the most characterized incarnation as far as the live action films go. Turtles 2 and Turtles 3 pretty much turned them into goofballs. Raph had barely any anger, and Leo sounded like a whiney little boy going through puberty. TMNT was good with Raph and Leo but not so much on Don or Mikey.

[NoName999]

TMNT was good with Raph and Leo but not so much on Don or Mikey.

That seems to be the problem with most of the incarnations.

Hell, if this movie focuses more on Don and Mikey, I'll give it props for doing that.

[GrapeSoda]

I, personally, do not really like the 1990 movie. It's fun if you're a TMNT fan, but it's still not a very good movie. And I also thought that they lacked a lot of personality and emotion, and when they did display any it seemed very forced. And the majority of the voice acting sucked, too, which didn't help things. They're probably the least characterized incarnation of the turtles.

Ouch.

I'm not intending this to be disrespectful, but this reads like what a 20 something would say about the original Star Wars trilogy verses the prequels. "The fights are boring, and they just stand there" or "The space battles look cheesy, like models" and "Yoda looks so stupid, he is just a puppet, not like in Episode 3."

As a jerk who loves dissecting bad and good films, the only gripe I have with TMNT 1990 is the pacing...which particularly drags at the farm house.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I like the 1990 movie but I can understand what you are saying here. It certainly isn't a masterpiece. You can even go back and read the critic reviews for it or watch the Siskel and Ebert episode where they talk about it and all of those critics even though they bash it make really good points. However, a lot of us have been life long fans of the turtles and remember that movie as part of our childhood so when we think about it, we incorporate all of that stuff into it which makes the movie seem to be much better than it actually is.


Siskel & Ebert also gave Speed 2: Cruise Control Two Thumbs Up, but not Aliens or Die Hard or Predator Two Thumbs Up.

And yet I think many people consider Die Hard, Aliens, and Predator masterpieces...and Speed 2? Not so much.

My point? It doesn't matter what critics say. It's up to the individual person.

And speaking for myself, I guess I'm just not part of that 'remembering the movie as part of our childhood so when we think about it, we incorporate all of that stuff into it which makes the movie seem to be much better than it actually is.'

I still think it's one of the best comic book movies hands down. And yeah, I honestly do think it's That Good.

And I don't mean to be rude, but that other guy saying that the voice acting in the 1990 film sucked? :roll:

Granted, it's his opinion (just like all you said is your opinion, sethmartin). I just don't understand it one bit.

[MastahShredder]

I, personally, do not really like the 1990 movie. It's fun if you're a TMNT fan, but it's still not a very good movie. And I also thought that they lacked a lot of personality and emotion, and when they did display any it seemed very forced. And the majority of the voice acting sucked, too, which didn't help things. They're probably the least characterized incarnation of the turtles.

http://i.imgur.com/Jz3QUSv.gif


*joke.


I thought 1990 was an amazing comic adaptation. For it's time, I think it's a very well balanced film.

[chrisdude]

In Fjaj's defense, I think calling the 1990 Turtles the least characterized is fair, at least in terms of TV and movies. And their displays of emotion are the definition of forced. That's why they emote with their bodies like stage actors, because their faces are only capable of so much.

I love it as much as everyone else here, but I think nostalgia has done that movie a lot of favors.

[AlphaAF]

Ritchson ETHERS you hating clowns again. This movie is going to be a sleeper hit.

[Fjaj]

Ouch.

I'm not intending this to be disrespectful, but this reads like what a 20 something would say about the original Star Wars trilogy verses the prequels. "The fights are boring, and they just stand there" or "The space battles look cheesy, like models" and "Yoda looks so stupid, he is just a puppet, not like in Episode 3."

As a jerk who loves dissecting bad and good films, the only gripe I have with TMNT 1990 is the pacing...which particularly drags at the farm house.

Interesting, I actually wish they spent more time at the farmhouse, so they would have more room for defining the characters. I know my opinion is probably shared by few people on this forum, because I actually watched it recently; unlike many other people who grew up with it. And I think that Star Wars is a bad connection, as those were critically acclaimed among everyone, unlike TMNT 1990 which is for the most part only loved by fans. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I completely understand anyone who loves this film. I was stating my opinion because it seems like it's similar to Ritchson's.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

but I think nostalgia has done that movie a lot of favors.

Once again, it's your opinion but I wholeheartedly and respectfully disagree.

[AlphaAF]

TMNT: 1990 aka Danny: The Movie

Yet people are worrying too many scenes will focus on April O'Neil? At least it's a hot chick, and an important character in the mythos.

Ritchson is right, on many levels the turtles were one note. And I like that film. Yet people will defend their one note characterization, then say the new turtles are caricatures simply because each individual TMNT's dress sense reflects their personality.

It's like ... what?!

[Drose18]

SOC0gbl4wd4

[sethmartin]

Siskel & Ebert also gave Speed 2: Cruise Control Two Thumbs Up, but not Aliens or Die Hard or Predator Two Thumbs Up.

And yet I think many people consider Die Hard, Aliens, and Predator masterpieces...and Speed 2? Not so much.

My point? It doesn't matter what critics say. It's up to the individual person.

And speaking for myself, I guess I'm just not part of that 'remembering the movie as part of our childhood so when we think about it, we incorporate all of that stuff into it which makes the movie seem to be much better than it actually is.'

I still think it's one of the best comic book movies hands down. And yeah, I honestly do think it's That Good.

And I don't mean to be rude, but that other guy saying that the voice acting in the 1990 film sucked? :roll:

Granted, it's his opinion (just like all you said is your opinion, sethmartin). I just don't understand it one bit.

Not saying I agree with Siskel and Ebert or any other critic. I was just saying that they made good points in their critiques. The film is good and it definitely stays faithful to the comics but it certainly isn't flawless. The film assumes you are a turtle fan before you watch it and waits until 20 minutes in before you get an explanation. This is one of the major reasons why critics at the time who were unfamiliar with the cartoon hated it. They spent the first 20 minutes going "What the hell am i watching?". Then they are supposed to buy this whole mutated ninja turtle concept based on a short flashback. For those of us who were kids at the time, we already knew the turtles and the origin so we didn't care that they breezed over the backstory, but to someone who was unfamiliar I can certainly understand their distaste. As a self contained feature without prior knowledge of the turtles, it falls apart.

[Puddinpop]

AR: In a lot of ways it’s still the same character. He’s still the angry hothead who’d rather take action than think about the implications of that action so in a lot of ways we’re still telling a lot of the same story. I think what we tried to do was to reach deeper and find other layers to these characters so they’re not so “one note”. I think in the past everybody sort of plays a caricature, like one dimension of humanity in a sense. I just think that the individuality and the depth of Raph and the turtles in this story is much, much richer. That’s something that we as actors focused on and I think it’s supported by the technology that’s helping to bring that story to life and the script that we ended up working with ultimately. It’s still a fun action/adventure movie but there’s a lot of heart and truth to the character that I think hasn’t really been expressed on film before.

Exactly.. This is what I was trying to say just hours ago in the " To everyone that's against the clothing " thread. They are trying to build a richer experience. They're going deeper with these characters. Like I said before if its done right we could be in for something truly epic. This whole concept of " outcasts living under a world that they're trying to understand and make sense of.. where do they fit into this world, will they ever be excepted.. trying to understand themselves as teenagers. I'm so intrigued by this.. I cant wait to watch it play out. I think Alan is telling the truth when he says that we will feel more attached to the turtles, more than ever BC of this new deeper richer version of the story and character development. Along with the tech. This isn't the first time he has talked about his character and how he relates to Raphael. He also spoke about how he relates to Raphs temper and how he never really thinks of the consequences of his actions. He talks about the characters feelings of betrayal and abandonment. I think we will really get a rich story. Not a " mindless Bay action movie " . Here's a link to another conversation with Alan..
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicbookmovie.com%2Ffansites %2Fmovienewsandreviews%2Fnews%2F%3Fa%3D90719&ei=75ZrU-KqGYqpsQT1vIHQBg&usg=AFQjCNF6eZhGp1ToeZRGQrTOmumPNH4qJg&sig2=qMLzL53_aBY6CtuBUv-OQg

[Xav]

Several people involved with this film have stated that this movie remains true to the source material but so many people insist that they are all lying.Maybe it's because those people haven't seen the story-arc were the turtles battle Eric Sachs and his black-ops army?

[electric_sheep]

Maybe it's because those people haven't seen the story-arc were the turtles battle Eric Sachs and his black-ops army?

What, you don't remmeber of Eric Sach from the comics?

[slingtheory]

I appreciate his words and I believe that he's genuinely enthusiastic but it doesn't make me any less skeptic. Its a little hard to take his word about expecting this to please the die hard fans when based on his previous interview he's only familiar with the old toon and maybe the movies.

From Evan Daugherty who was hired in early 2013 to do rewrites to the script-

" ...these projects stay in development for a long time. Therefore different drafts are written, where people (writers) go in different directions and sometimes stray from the source material. I'm a massive fan of the Ninja Turtles: I had all the toys, I watched all the cartoons all the time when I was a kid. So when I came onboard, I wanted to make sure that the core things of the mythology remained."

He goes onto say...

(Continuing) "so in terms of pleasing the fans and remaining faithful to the source material of the Ninja Turtles, I think people will not be disappointed at all. All I can say is that it will be a Ninja Turtles movie. It's going to be a really GREAT Ninja Turtles movie!"


Several people involved with this film have stated that this movie remains true to the source material but so many people insist that they are all lying. I guess we will know for sure on August 8. I trust the people involved. Not saying that this film will be a masterpiece but from everything I've seen and heard from the ACTUAL production seems to stay consistent to the turtles, incorporates the things we love, and looks like it will at least be a fun entertaining movie. I find that with movies like this its better to believe it when you see it. It may be a cynical stance to take but I've read enough. Interviews and fluff pieces to know folks in the movie business aren't above stretching the truth or even outright lying to build buzz for their movies.I ve also learned to read between the lines. In the interview evan daughtry talks about having all the toys and watching the cartoon and nothing else so when he talks about being faithful to the mythology I'm inclined to wonder if its only as it was presented in that show. Its hard to trust someones idea of what will be pleasing to a fanbase when they themselves only seem knowlegable about one interpratation of it.

[AlphaAF]

Actually in the 1990 film, the turtles weren't even one note.

Leo was a leader, but it's not made abundantly clear in his decisions or characterization. Hell, the theme song of the movie claims "Raphael is the leader of the group, transformed from the norm by the nuclear goop"

Don is borederline Mikey clone, voiced by Feldman. Whose very relaxed, cool guy nature doesn't always reflect Don's dorkyness. At least in the sequel they clearly defined his meaning to the team with a voice actor who fit the performance more.

Raph has the most dimension of any of the turtles in the 1990 movie. And Danny's character arc is the only one clearly defined. The movie starts off focusing on Raph, then gives up on it mid way through the film.

Hell, the 2014 film has more potential. How can a fan act like it's such a piece of crap? The '90 film was good, far from great. The sequels were fun nostalgia, but were terrible movies.

The new movie doesn't even have to try and it will end up being at worst the 2nd best film in the franchise.

Fans complaining the unique dress sense to each turtle is redundant, or caricature? To me it better accentuates who they are as characters, and their relation to one another in the family. How the individual personalities come together to form a cohesive team.

At least Donny is clearly a technical wizard, and dork. Leo clearly looks more regal, and student of the "game" per se in regards to Japanese bushido culture.

Raph is still the ready fire aim rebel, fighter, cool guy who is physically imposing, angry, and barbaric in mentality.

Mikey is clearly the pop culture obsessed, surfer / skate boarding pizza loving kid brother.

I've always disliked how the '90 film is about young teenagers losing their father, being forced to grow up quickly, come together as brothers to defeat a threat. Then the narrative totally bails out the point of them as family, and simply has Splinter save the day.

:ohwell:

[AlphaAF]

What, you don't remmeber of Eric Sach from the comics?

No but I remember The Shredder, and Krang experimenting making their own mutants, controlling a Foot army that weilded laser guns.

Much like the 2k3 series, this movie probably combines the character of The Shredder and Krang.

This movie isn't taking much inspiration from the original Mirage stuff. It clearly seems to more reverential to the Wolf Toon, 2k3 toon, IDW series, and possibly Nick.

[electric_sheep]

Originally Posted by sethmartin
From Evan Daugherty who was hired in early 2013 to do rewrites to the script-

" ...these projects stay in development for a long time. Therefore different drafts are written, where people (writers) go in different directions and sometimes stray from the source material. I'm a massive fan of the Ninja Turtles: I had all the toys, I watched all the cartoons all the time when I was a kid. So when I came onboard, I wanted to make sure that the core things of the mythology remained."

He goes onto say...

(Continuing) "so in terms of pleasing the fans and remaining faithful to the source material of the Ninja Turtles, I think people will not be disappointed at all. All I can say is that it will be a Ninja Turtles movie. It's going to be a really GREAT Ninja Turtles movie!"


Several people involved with this film have stated that this movie remains true to the source material but so many people insist that they are all lying. I guess we will know for sure on August 8. I trust the people involved. Not saying that this film will be a masterpiece but from everything I've seen and heard from the ACTUAL production seems to stay consistent to the turtles, incorporates the things we love, and looks like it will at least be a fun entertaining movie.


I saw how they folow the source material, remmeber the Blue Door and how that was so close to source material? Yeah....

No but I remember The Shredder, and Krang experimenting making their own mutants, controlling a Foot army that weilded laser guns.

Much like the 2k3 series, this movie probably combines the character of The Shredder and Krang.

This movie isn't taking much inspiration from the original Mirage stuff. It clearly seems to more reverential to the Wolf Toon, 2k3 toon, IDW series, and possibly Nick. Whic was stupid in 2k3 and is stupid here...

[AlphaAF]

Peter Laird, the hack, the co-creator of the TMNT didn't even follow his own source material.

Shredder was Chrell. A pink troll Utrom. What's the big deal then when The Shredder is a white business man named Eric Sachs, portrayed by the deliciously evil Fitchner? We already got a more Mirage esque TMNT film, complete with Japanese Saki as Shredder.

Did people honestly want more of the exact same?

[TurtleTitan97]

Peter Laird, the hack, the co-creator of the TMNT didn't even follow his own source material.

Shredder was Chrell. A pink troll Utrom. What's the big deal then when The Shredder is a white business man named Eric Sachs, portrayed by the deliciously evil Fitchner? We already got a more Mirage esque TMNT film, complete with Japanese Saki as Shredder.

Did people honestly want more of the exact same?

Because it's a pointless change for the sake of change?

Shredder's identity has always been associated with Oroku Saki. It's been that way since the franchise began. Even in the 2003 series, they still used the Saki persona for Chr'ell. Not to mention it's just straight up whitewashing. Sorry, but I could care less how people say Fitcher is a good actor, doesn't mean he's right for the role.

There's is literally no good reason for them to change both Shredder's race and name.

[chrisdude]

Did people honestly want more of the exact same?YES.

There's no detail too minor to fret over.

[AlphaAF]

Even in the 2003 series, they still used the Saki persona for Chr'ell.
But he wasn't Saki ... He wasn't even human. His name was Chrell dude.

[electric_sheep]

Because it's a pointless change for the sake of change?

Shredder's identity has always been associated with Oroku Saki. It's been that way since the franchise began. Even in the 2003 series, they still used the Saki persona. Not to mention it's just straight up whitewashing.

There's is literally no good reason for them to change both Shredder's race and name.

The only reason i see is that the he had this idea of leo cutting Shredder's head and the network was "No,no we can't have that in a show for kids, find a way to fix it" So they turned him into an utrom...

[MastahShredder]

TMNT: 1990 aka Danny: The Movie

Yet people are worrying too many scenes will focus on April O'Neil? At least it's a hot chick, and an important character in the mythos.

Ritchson is right, on many levels the turtles were one note. And I like that film. Yet people will defend their one note characterization, then say the new turtles are caricatures simply because each individual TMNT's dress sense reflects their personality.

It's like ... what?!

The film was targeted for kids as well and if you take him out of the equation, who can they relate to?....a big message it wanted to sell to the younger viewers was the importance of family, being able to do the right thing no matter what you have done in the past.

[AlphaAF]

The only reason i see is that the he had this idea of leo cutting Shredder's head and the network was "No,no we can't have that in a show for kids, find a way to fix it" So they turned him into an utrom...

He said in an interview it was his plan from the beginning to make that change.

[TurtleTitan97]

But he wasn't Saki ... He wasn't even human. His name was Chrell dude.

Yeah, but he still used the Oroku Saki identity most of the time.

[AlphaAF]

Yeah, but he still used the Oroku Saki identity most of the time.

Why does that matter? He wasn't Saki. At that point it's just service? It wasn't his name. He wasn't even human. He wasn't Japanese. How can you defend one change then condemn another? You don't see the hypocrisy in your stance on this ... :lol: the change is the EXACT SAME THING.

[AlphaAF]

The film was targeted for kids as well and if you take him out of the equation, who can they relate to?....a big message it wanted to sell to the younger viewers was the importance of family, being able to do the right thing no matter what you have done in the past.

You can convey the message of family in a TMNT movie without the use of a made up character.

[Puddinpop]

Maybe it's because those people haven't seen the story-arc were the turtles battle Eric Sachs and his black-ops army?

I'm sorry did you mean 21st century " FOOT SOLDIERS " ? Who knows maybe they did read the comics with the foot soldiers flaring ray guns around. Who knows how crazy they were about TMNT.

[graphic_content]

The only reason i see is that the he had this idea of leo cutting Shredder's head and the network was "No,no we can't have that in a show for kids, find a way to fix it" So they turned him into an utrom...

i dont know if it possible with a pg-13 rating, but I would love to see something like it in this movie...

...imagine, the turtles going all out on shredder, leo finds the smallest opening, and lobs his head off, Shredder drops to his knees...they think its over, and all of a sudden he gets back up, wires, and sparks flying out from where his head used to be, the camera pans down, and we see a compartment open, and there it is...an Utrom.

Its possible, Fitchner remains tight-lipped about his character, and keeps saying that it goes through several evolutions, in previous interviews.

[MastahShredder]

You can convey the message of family in a TMNT movie without the use of a made up character.

Films try to give you characters you can relate to. It's true, it was the Danny Pennington Show, but even with that I still thought they did an excellent job letting you get to know each character a bit. Did you like some of it?

[electric_sheep]

Films try to give you characters you can relate to. It's true, it was the Danny Pennington Show, but even with that I still thought they did an excellent job letting you get to know each character a bit. Did you like some of it?

Danny wasn't 1o minutes in the movie, the most...

[AlphaAF]

Films try to give you characters you can relate to. It's true, it was the Danny Pennington Show, but even with that I still thought they did an excellent job letting you get to know each character a bit. Did you like some of it?

Yes, I didn't mind it. I stand by it not being necessary. You should be able to relate to the turtles on some levels. That's a bit of their charm. I'm playing devil's advocate in defense of this new film against the asinine critcisms. I didn't mind Danny, but sometimes I felt there was a little too much focus on him as a subplot.

[MastahShredder]

Danny wasn't 1o minutes in the movie, the most...

We followed his tale as well though and it was more dominant then some of the other characters.

I think the film is almost perfect so I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum.

[TurtleTitan97]

Why does that matter? He wasn't Saki. At that point it's just service? It wasn't his name. He wasn't even human. He wasn't Japanese. How can you defend one change then condemn another? You don't see the hypocrisy in your stance on this ... :lol: the change is the EXACT SAME THING.

Oh brother. :trolleye:

The fact of the matter is the Saki persona still had a presence within the 2k3 show, from Ch'rell to the Tengu Shredder. If we saw straight from the beginning of the show in the first episode Shredder was an Utrom, and without no mention of Saki, then yes, I would be against it. But since we saw him as "Saki" the majority of the time, him being an Utrom is a minor complaint I have with that version.

From what we have gathered about this film, Saki is appearing no where, and to start a new TMNT film without him with someone else behind the mask, who isn't even an established TMNT character, is dumb. Not to mention disappointing to anyone who's a Shredder fan.

[AlphaAF]

We followed his tale as well though and it was more dominant then some of the other characters.

I think the film is almost perfect so I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum.

Exactly. Danny got the only definitive character arc. The narrative places more emphasis on him than: Donny, Mikey, and even Leo. At least you can admit this. People throwing shade at the new film really need to take a hard look at the 1990 film.

[MastahShredder]

Yes, I didn't mind it. I stand by it not being necessary. You should be able to relate to the turtles on some levels. That's a bit of their charm. I'm playing devil's advocate in defense of this new film against the asinine critcisms. I didn't mind Danny, but sometimes I felt there was a little too much focus on him as a subplot.

I didn't like Danny. I thought he was a whiny brat. I love when Shredder confronts him. Well worth it.

nVCq0DffE_4

[AlphaAF]

I didn't like Danny. I thought he was a whiny brat. I love when Shredder confronts him. Well worth it.

I don't like Danny the character himself. He's a punk b1tch, relentlessly selfish. But I didn't mind his worth from a thematic perspective emphasizing the meaning of family. Like I said, he got way too much focus however, and truly wasn't necessary. The turtles humanized characteristics are relatable.

[MastahShredder]

Btw, the second sequence in that clip is my favorite movie moment ever. I get the chills.

Didn't go the first time and the Foot failed. Shredder sounds like such a badass giving orders and declaring he'll be going himself to oversee it. I love that line.

There will be no mistake this time. I go myself. And the rat, kill it.

[AlphaAF]

Oh brother. :trolleye:

The fact of the matter is the Saki persona still had a presence within the 2k3 show, from Ch'rell to the Tengu Shredder. If we saw straight from the beginning of the show in the first episode Shredder was an Utrom, and without no mention of Saki, then yes, I would be against it. But since we saw him as "Saki" the majority of the time, him being an Utrom is a minor complaint I have with that version.

From what we have gathered about this film, Saki is appearing no where, and to start a new TMNT film without him with someone else behind the mask, who isn't even an established TMNT character, is dumb. Not to mention disappointing to anyone who's a Shredder fan.

This is an exercise in mental gymnastics.

[electric_sheep]

Btw, the second sequence in that clip is my favorite movie moment ever. I get the chills.

Didn't go the first time and the Foot failed. Shredder sounds like such a badass giving orders and going himself. I love that line.

So your technic of defending the new movie is by discrediting the old one? Interesting...

[TurtleTitan97]

This is an exercise in mental gymnastics.

Whatever. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this issue.

[Puddinpop]

I appreciate his words and I believe that he's genuinely enthusiastic but it doesn't make me any less skeptic. Its a little hard to take his word about expecting this to please the die hard fans when based on his previous interview he's only familiar with the old toon and maybe the movies.

I find that with movies like this its better to believe it when you see it. It may be a cynical stance to take but I've read enough. Interviews and fluff pieces to know folks in the movie business aren't above stretching the truth or even outright lying to build buzz for their movies.I ve also learned to read between the lines. In the interview evan daughtry talks about having all the toys and watching the cartoon and nothing else so when he talks about being faithful to the mythology I'm inclined to wonder if its only as it was presented in that show. Its hard to trust someones idea of what will be pleasing to a fanbase when they themselves only seem knowlegable about one interpratation of it.

I understand.. I mean I don't take it as bulletproof evidence either but like you said its nice to here him come out again and explain things. As for Evan.. I like what he said as well.. yea we can assume that he hasn't read the comics but who knows.. I agree with you though. This is why I feel better knowing that they brought in Eastman in the very beginning of development to get the full scoop on the mythology and back story. They had him do concept sketches also. So if this is completely off base from the source material and has absolutely no relevance to it there is no excuse. If they fail to make this an authentic turtles movie there is no excuse for it. In August we will all know if it is or isn't.

[AlphaAF]

So your technic of defending the new movie is by discrediting the old one? Interesting...

Well when people hold the same stupid critiques to the new film which hasn't even be released yet to the original let everything slide? It shows tremendous amounts of hypocrisy and bias now doesn't it ...

In Mirage the Foot weren't run of the mill kids rebelling against their middle income daddies.

Do people get all bent out of shape about that change as well?

What about Don not being a techno wiz, and dork. Instead reduced to Mikey's clone.

How about Leo being a shitastic leader. Not even really going out searching for Splinter, but relying on April's investigative reporting alone ...

[slingtheory]

Why does that matter? He wasn't Saki. At that point it's just service? It wasn't his name. He wasn't even human. He wasn't Japanese. How can you defend one change then condemn another? You don't see the hypocrisy in your stance on this ... :lol: the change is the EXACT SAME THING.

the point I think hes trying to make is that chrell might not have actually been the "real" oroku saki but he presented himself as a Japanese man and adopted all the customs and ideology that went along with that thus providing the cultural connection back to japan that the turtles origin and rivalry with the foot clan hinges on. from what we've seen of eric sachs so far he appears to be just a white dude with no ties to japan beyond that one mural which as of now we have no idea the meaning of. I completely hate the chrell plot twist for a whole lot of reasons but at least he identified his human persona as being Japanese

[AlphaAF]

the point I think hes trying to make is that chrell might not have actually been the "real" oroku saki but he presented himself as a Japanese man and adopted all the customs and ideology that went along with that thus providing the cultural connection back to japan
But the inclusion of Karai for the 1st time in live action, the Shredder samurai armor, ancient Japanese scrolls isn't doing that as well?

EFF outta here. You guys play mental gynamistics to defend one vision, and then overly critique another.

Hell, Peter Laird the hack had no problem deviating for the source material. But because an alias of Saki was used it makes the change less disrespectful? Because he used a fake Japanese identity?

Um, ok. That makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

Oh, and I understood the point he was making. I appreciate the thought process but it's the same DAMN thing.

[electric_sheep]

But Karai, the Shredder samurai armor, ancient japanese scroll isn't doing that as well?

EFF outta here. You guys play mental gynamistics to defend one vision, and then overly critique another.

Hell, Peter Laird the hack had no problem deviating for the source material. But because an alias of Saki was used it makes the change less disrespectful.

Um, ok. Oh, and I understood the point he was making. I appreciate the thought process but it's the same DAMN thing.

Any man who calls Laird a hack is no friend of mine.

If you don't like Peter Laird

Jv6zMO9mPr0

[Puddinpop]

Oh brother. :trolleye:

The fact of the matter is the Saki persona still had a presence within the 2k3 show, from Ch'rell to the Tengu Shredder. If we saw straight from the beginning of the show in the first episode Shredder was an Utrom, and without no mention of Saki, then yes, I would be against it. But since we saw him as "Saki" the majority of the time, him being an Utrom is a minor complaint I have with that version.

From what we have gathered about this film, Saki is appearing no where, and to start a new TMNT film without him with someone else behind the mask, who isn't even an established TMNT character, is dumb. Not to mention disappointing to anyone who's a Shredder fan.

No one knows that they wont incorporate Saki.. How do you know that Sachs doesn't have Saki's suit and helmet and gauntlet as artifacts? Don't you remember Eastman telling people about the shredder " Everything you read online is wrong, wait till you see it your in for a pleasant surprise ". How do we know that Sachs isn't just another body being operated by the same krang/utrom that operated Saki back in feudal era Japan? These are all possibilities.. Maybe even flash backs of him.. I kind of like the idea of Saki being a legend or a symbol of a man that never dies. Not just making him a man from the past.. But having Sachs obsess over him and his armor/artifacts. Maybe its Krang inside Sachs body.. during the trailer it looks like Sachs is " sliding " on something up to the Shredder armor, maybe to transport itself into the Shredder suit? Id say from what we have gathered about this film, it is very possible that Saki will at least be mentioned if not shown.

[electric_sheep]

No one knows that they wont incorporate Saki.. How do you know that Sachs doesn't have Saki's suit and helmet and gauntlet as artifacts? Don't you remember Eastman telling people about the shredder " Everything you read online is wrong, wait till you see it your in for a pleasant surprise ". How do we know that Sachs isn't just another body being operated by the same krang/utrom that operated Saki back in feudal era Japan? These are all possibilities.. Maybe even flash backs of him.. I kind of like the idea of Saki being a legend or a symbol of a man that never dies. Not just making him a man from the past.. But having Sachs obsess over him and his armor/artifacts. Maybe its Krang inside Sachs body.. during the trailer it looks like Sachs is " sliding " on something up to the Shredder armor, maybe to transport itself into the Shredder suit? Id say from what we have gathered about this film, it is very possible that Saki will at least be mentioned if not shown.

Then one simple question, why is his name Erich Sach?

[Jester]

Alpha, tone it down.

And Warhorse, stop play-modding on peoples' "walls". Visitors messages aren't the place to be passively aggressive with people you disagree with.

[AlphaAF]

Then one simple question, why is his name Erich Sach?

Because he's an American business man with strong affiliations to politics in NYC. It would make total sense for him to be white, and have awhite washed name.

In the trailer we're clearly led to believe he's playing BOTH sides of the fence. Just like in the 2k3 series. His public perception is that of a man looking out for the common good, but at night he controls crime with his terrorist ninja commando Foot army.

???

That's very Saki esque in character.

;)

[electric_sheep]

Because he's an American business man with strong affiliations to politics in NYC. It would make total sense for him to be white, and white washed name.

In the trailer we're clearly led to believe he's playing BOTH sides of the fence. Just like in the 2k3 series. His public perception is that of a man looking out for the common good, but at night he controls crime with his terrorist ninja commando Foot army.

???

;)
Wouldn't be wierd that he's name is Eric Sach and he's opssesed with guy called Oroku Saki? Does that sound stupid to anyone else?
The truth is the he is Oroku Saki, just an American one...

[AlphaAF]

Wouldn't be wierd that he's name is Eric Sach and he's opssesed with guy called Oroku Saki? Does that sound stupid to anyone else?
The truth is the he is Oroku Saki, just an American one...

Did you think the 2k3 Shredder / Chrell was stupid? Laird did that 1st BTW, not a Michael Bay produced film.

[electric_sheep]

Did you think the 2k3 Shredder / Chrell was stupid? Laird did that 1st BTW, not a Michael Bay produced film.

Yeah, i did. it was stupid then and it's stupid now. if you wanna know what Michael Bay's true vission for this movie is then read the Blue Door script and you will know that there's no chance in hell that'll be good...

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Did you think the 2k3 Shredder / Chrell was stupid? Laird did that 1st BTW, not a Michael Bay produced film.

I didn't care for it then, don't care for it now. So I don't like either version of Shredder-that-isn't-Saki. :p

For me...

87 series - 1st 5 episodes are great
2k3 series - 1st season is great
Nick series - thus far liking the whole ride overall

Really wish the 87 series had been able to be produced entirely by the Japanese studio that did the mini-series and opening animation and kept that tone. It just got more and more light hearted after that.

[AlphaAF]

Yeah, i did. it was stupid then and it's stupid now. if you wanna know what Michael Bay's true vission for this movie is then read the Blue Door script and you will know that there's no chance in hell that'll be good...
Yea, apart from the fact that isn't the script they used for the actual film. And respect for sticking to your guns in regards to the argument. So do you, or do you not feel Laird on his own is a hack as well? That 2k3 series after maybe the 1st season and a half is atrocious.

I didn't care for it then, don't care for it now. So I don't like either version of Shredder-that-isn't-Saki. :p

For me...

87 series - 1st 5 episodes are great
2k3 series - 1st season is great
Nick series - thus far liking the whole ride overall

Really wish the 87 series had been able to be produced entirely by the Japanese studio that did the mini-series and opening animation and kept that tone. It just got more and more light hearted after that.

At least you're not flip flopping on your argument over Saki. I can respect that. Oh, and totally agree on your thoughts on the cartoon. EVERYTHING verbatim.

[electric_sheep]

Yea, apart from the fact that isn't the script they used for the actual film. And respect for sticking to your guns in regards to the argument. So do you, or do you not feel Laird on his own is a hack as well? That 2k3 series after maybe the 1st season and a half is atrocious.



At least you're not flip flopping on your argument over Saki. I can respect that. Oh, and totally agree on your thoughts on the cartoon. EVERYTHING verbatim.

First 3 seasons are awesome, and stop calling Peter a hack, it only makes you sound like an annoying brat crying for attention. from what have we seen so far a good chunk of that script is still in use.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

I need to see the 2nd and 3rd season. I've only season the 1st straight through ep by ep (got the DVD) before the others got skyhigh expensive from being hard to find. :(

[AlphaAF]

First 3 seasons are awesome, and stop calling Peter a hack, it only makes you sound like an annoying brat crying for attention. from what have we seen so far a good chunk of that script is still in use.

Colonel Shredder, Alien Origin have all been stated as being 86'ed. Even in the trailers it's obvious that's not the case. We see mutagen, and a businessman named Eric Sachs. I'm not crying for attention. That's my opinion. Chrell Shredder was a joke. The worst re-invention in the franchise's history. Hopefully if that is in the new film it's better in execution.

[electric_sheep]

Colonel Shredder, Alien Origin have all been stated as being 86'ed. Even in the trailers it's obvious that's not the case. We see mutagen, and a businessman named Eric Sachs. I'm not crying for attention. That's my opinion. Chrell Shredder was a joke. The worst re-invention in the franchise's history. Hopefully if that is in the new film it's better in execution.

April moving to new york (As seen in the set photos)
Sewer raid and a standoff betwen Splinter and Shredder.
Turtles getting capturted
Snow escape
Mikey being experimented on
April being Megan Fox.
Substation 16
turtles being hulk sized
Military foot
Shredder still not Japanese
Vernon will basicly be Casey's replacemant

Do you want me to continue?

[AlphaAF]

April moving to new york (As seen in the set photos)
Sewer raid and a standoff betwen Splinter and Shredder.
Turtles getting capturted
Snow escape
Mikey being experimented on
April being Megan Fox.
Substation 16
turtles being hulk sized
Military foot
Shredder still not Japanese
Vernon will basicly be Casey's replacemant

Do you want me to continue?
That's all perfectly fine to me. Mutant Colonel Shredder, and Alien Species Turtles were the only issues I had. The rest is more than welcome updates, and fresh ideas.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Aren't you now doing the same thing you're not liking?

Ch'rell Shredder's a joke
If Sachs is an utrom it's okay?

Honestly I thought that was speculative nonsense, but the more I look at the concept art, the more I'm starting to believe the utrom Shredder theory for the movie.

But Colonel Shredder looks to be axed (but that's another Shredder-that-isn't-Shredder so maybe it's still there as Sachs in a way after all?)
Alien origins LOOKS to be gone, but again....the mutagen ooze origin was in the Blue Door as well.

I can't imagine them keeping that alien race nonsense though, especially not after the Internet nearly imploded with fan outrage. ;)

[Puddinpop]

Actually, it is against forum rules to call people names, and blatantly bait people by trolling like you are doing. We'll be seeing red on you soon enough.

He is doing the same thing that most people are doing with this movie. He's giving his perspective.. his opinion.. He is not calling anyone on here any nasty names like i've seen others do. But people will try to silence him bc he speaks with conviction and people don't agree with what he is saying. If some can come on this subforum and trash this movie and its creators daily calling them hacks and " stupid lazy morons" and then have the nerve to call for Alphas banning bc he gives an opinion on Laird? i find that outrageously hypocritical. You can all hate on Eastman for being the " overly positive one " and criticize his mistakes but ooooooo noooo don't you DARE say a WORD about Laird.. The creator that criticizes the new movie.. If Alpha broke any " forum rules " by saying what he said then others here break them on a daily basis. IF HE HATED THIS MOVIE THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU"D BE CALLING FOR HIS BAN! PERIOD!!!!

[electric_sheep]

He is doing the same thing that most people are doing with this movie. He's giving his perspective.. his opinion.. He is not calling anyone on here any nasty names like i've seen others do. But people will try to silence him bc he speaks with conviction and people don't agree with what he is saying. If some can come on this subforum and trash this movie and its creators daily calling them hacks and " stupid lazy morons" and then have the nerve to call for Alphas banning bc he gives an opinion on Laird? i find that outrageously hypocritical. You can all hate on Eastman for being the " overly positive one " and criticize his mistakes but ooooooo noooo don't you DARE say a WORD about Laird.. The creator that criticizes the new movie.. If Alpha broke any " forum rules " by saying what he said then others here break them on a daily basis. IF HE HATED THIS MOVIE THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU"D BE CALLING FOR HIS BAN! PERIOD!!!!

Well it's different, we know that movie creators are hacks...
They've been leaching on all kind of frachises in the last 10 years or so and they didn't create anything remotly good...

[SwiftNinjaFox]

In honor of Michael Bay....

Woo-sah, people. Wooooo-saaaaaah.

[AlphaAF]

Aren't you now doing the same thing you're not liking?

Ch'rell Shredder's a joke
Nope.

I didn't like the execution of Ch'rell in the 2k3 show. The idea of it wasn't what bothered me. If it's presented better, or in a more menacing fashion ... I'm open to the idea. As long as it's done well.

Being deliberately obtuse to show the hypocrisy in disliking one change in favor of the EXACT SAME change is why I took that stance.

Honestly I thought that was speculative nonsense, but the more I look at the concept art, the more I'm starting to believe the utrom Shredder theory for the movie.
Which conept art is making you believe in this theory? Does it come in combination with Fitchner's statements about this Shredder being a mystery, and heavily linked to the Turtles origin?

Alien origins LOOKS to be gone, but again....the mutagen ooze origin was in the Blue Door as well.
I don't mind the mutagen ooze being of alien origin. That dates all the way back to Mirage. I'm hoping to finally see Utroms in live action TMNT films.

I can't imagine them keeping that alien race nonsense though, especially not after the Internet nearly imploded with fan outrage. ;)
That was what most infuriated me. Along with non samurai armor Shredder, being a mutated Colonel. Not faithful to the essence of the Shredder. Not a welcome change.

The rest of the similarities with the Blue Door script don't bother me one friggin bit. In fact, I love the more mutated, freakish size take on the TMNT in this versiont oo.

[Warhorse]

He is doing the same thing that most people are doing with this movie. He's giving his perspective.. his opinion.. He is not calling anyone on here any nasty names like i've seen others do. But people will try to silence him bc he speaks with conviction and people don't agree with what he is saying. If some can come on this subforum and trash this movie and its creators daily calling them hacks and " stupid lazy morons" and then have the nerve to call for Alphas banning bc he gives an opinion on Laird? i find that outrageously hypocritical. You can all hate on Eastman for being the " overly positive one " and criticize his mistakes but ooooooo noooo don't you DARE say a WORD about Laird.. The creator that criticizes the new movie.. If Alpha broke any " forum rules " by saying what he said then others here break them on a daily basis. IF HE HATED THIS MOVIE THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU"D BE CALLING FOR HIS BAN! PERIOD!!!!

We hate on Eastman? And not once have I seen anyone here call him Hack. Hack is an insulting word on here, especially towards one of the creators. We also not supposed to say anything hateful towards the 80's toon either. It's in the rules. In fact, the Laird interview about his view on the movie, is locked up because people who seem to be pro movie, were definitely turning it into a war zone, while the Eastman interview is still up. You do the math.

[AlphaAF]

Well it's different, we know that movie creators are hacks...
They've been leaching on all kind of frachises in the last 10 years or so and they didn't create anything remotly good...

I know Laird is a hack. I saw his 2k3 tv show. The one he had to finance on his own because kids weren't even interested ...

Bay won't have to finance this film with his own movies to put asses in the seats. Even his crappiest Transformer film brought in MEGA bucks.

Thanks to Puddinpop for defending me, and understanding the hypocrisy with board members, moderators, and the very essence of the technodrome forum.

Intelligent guy that poster.

[electric_sheep]

I know Laird is a hack. I saw his 2k3 tv show. The one he had to finance on his own because kids weren't even interested ...

Bay won't have to finance this film with his own movies to put asses in the seats. Even his crappiest Transformer film brought in MEGA bucks.

Thanks to Puddinpop for defending me, and understanding the hypocrisy with board members, moderators, and the very essence of the technodrome forum.

Intelligent guy that poster.
He is a hack because he paid for it himself?
Your logic is unbeatable...

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Which conept art is making you believe in this theory? Does it come in combination with Fitchner's statements about this Shredder being a mystery, and heavily linked to the Turtles origin?

The first concept art that was shown it's noted he has red eyes, same as 2k3 Utrom Shredder.

The concept art in the upcoming Visual History looks to very much have a potentially open section around the abdomen, shadowed, but with what looks like two eyes there.

Those together make me start to think it's very possible.

I don't mind the mutagen ooze being of alien origin. That dates all the way back to Mirage. I'm hoping to finally see Utroms in live action TMNT films.

I don't mean the ooze being alien, I think everyone's fine with that. I mean the Blue Door script had the original "mutagen ooze mutated the turtles" origin as was in the Mirage comics, same as the current movie is showing. The real origin was in the Blue Door script.

It was just revealed that the origin story was a lie Splinter told them to keep them from knowing their true destiny as prophesied saviors of the world, blah blah blah.


That was what most infuriated me. Along with non samurai armor Shredder, being a mutated Colonel. Not faithful to the essence of the Shredder. Not a welcome change.

I don't even know what he was... He turned against the military, suggesting he was using them to track down the turtles and he was working for Krang...was he a mutated human or an alien to begin with? All I know is he was described looking like Mortal Kombat's Baraka.

Bay won't have to finance this film with his own movies to put asses in the seats. Even his crappiest Transformer film brought in MEGA bucks.

You know if you go see it and it IS a horrible train wreck of a movie, this statement here guarantees you'll get more horrible train wrecks of a movie, right? ;)

Thanks to Puddinpop for defending me, and understanding the hypocrisy with board members, moderators, and the very essence of the technodrome forum.

Intelligent guy that poster.

Funny how people seem to think the only intelligent posters are the ones who agree with their opinion.

Ah well, I love the opposite opinion thread for this. I get to see that everyone isn't against each other on everything after all.

[AlphaAF]

He is a hack because he paid for it himself?
Your logic is unbeatable...

No he's a hack because of the hackneyed plots, as well as there being no public interest to the point he had to finance it himself. It's a melting pot of reasons that the cynical, cheesy Peter Laird in my view is considered a hack of a writer. On his own. With Eastman? He reaches greatness. Thus, the TMNT were born.

[Warhorse]

Looks like another thread is going to be locked up with all of the flame posts.

[AlphaAF]

Funny how people seem to think the only intelligent posters are the ones who agree with their opinion.

Ah well, I love the opposite opinion thread for this. I get to see that everyone isn't against each other on everything after all.

Um, I think TurtleTitan, yourself, and even electric_sheep are intelligent as well.

[slingtheory]

But the inclusion of Karai for the 1st time in live action, the Shredder samurai armor, ancient Japanese scrolls isn't doing that as well?

EFF outta here. You guys play mental gynamistics to defend one vision, and then overly critique another.

Hell, Peter Laird the hack had no problem deviating for the source material. But because an alias of Saki was used it makes the change less disrespectful? Because he used a fake Japanese identity?

Um, ok. That makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

Oh, and I understood the point he was making. I appreciate the thought process but it's the same DAMN thing.

first of all I wasn't defending the creation of chrell. I don't like it either because I feel it both makes the shredders feud with the turtles less personal while at the same time throwing out what I like most about the character which is him being a normal man who dominates his opponents because he's deadly skilled at martial arts. all I was saying that at least 2k3 kept the japan connection obvious as chrell used a Japanese man as his earthly disguise. I don't know why laird chose to go that way with the character maybe it was so he didn't have to worry about the violence against him being censored or maybe he just wanted to up his threat level but either way I can disagree with it without calling him a hack because he's not one. eric sachs on the other hand has no visible connection to japan and even if it turns out that like chrell he adopted Japanese culture for whatever reason I didn't like it then and I won't like it now. only now it'll be worse because unlike 2k3 where that was the only thing I didn't care for here it'll just be one more dumb idea on top of the pile. . the real beef I have with it though is no matter what reason they use to explain away the shredder being a white dude it obvious to me its just jumping through hoops so bay could cast his buddy.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Um, I think TurtleTitan, yourself, and even electric_sheep are intelligent as well.

They're falling for my tricks.

Excccccellent.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

No he's a hack because of the hackneyed plots, as well as there being no public interest to the point he had to finance it himself. It's a melting pot of reasons that the cynical, cheesy Peter Laird in my view is considered a hack of a writer. On his own. With Eastman? He reaches greatness. Thus, the TMNT were born.

you realize without Laird there would be No TMNT

may be mini modding but show some respect if you are such a die hard fan

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Oh brother. :trolleye:

The fact of the matter is the Saki persona still had a presence within the 2k3 show, from Ch'rell to the Tengu Shredder. If we saw straight from the beginning of the show in the first episode Shredder was an Utrom, and without no mention of Saki, then yes, I would be against it. But since we saw him as "Saki" the majority of the time, him being an Utrom is a minor complaint I have with that version.

Yeah, and even though he was an Utrom, he still brought Japenese and ninja elements to the table. He trained ninja. He was a deadly ninja. Even though he was actually an Utrom, that Utrom WAS Saki.

I, personally, really love the Ch'rell twist. It was a great addition to the franchise, and to this day, Ch'rell (this is only my opinion) is the best (possibly save Mirage or IDW) Shredder to date. He's the most menacing interpretation of the character so far on screen. He literally KILLED some of his followers if they did not succeed. He cut Baxter down piece by piece. He wanted to destroy this world, and yet, had a bigger picture. I loved how the turtles were a tiny nuisance to him, whereas the Shredder in the 1987 series focused episode after episode to take the turtles down that he lost sight of his big picture. Ch'rell is a menacing character, and I loved how he kept all this deception and hatred in his heart, making his portrayal of Shredder stand out in my mind as one of the best.

But I still agree with you, Alpha. At least in the area of thinking that this movie may have something great in store for us. My only worry is if it derails too much from what TMNT really is, and that included the villain who ultimately became their eternal rival, the Shredder. His depiction can be just as important as the turtles themselves (almost).

Hell, Peter Laird the hack had no problem deviating for the source material. But because an alias of Saki was used it makes the change less disrespectful? Because he used a fake Japanese identity?

If every version of the TMNT after the early Mirage comics never took it's liberties to stray away from the source material ... TMNT would be very, very bland. We'd get story after story, hardly any new characters, nothing to really enjoy after 30 years. Actually, TMNT wouldn't even have the popularity in the masses that it has today if everything had stuck to the source material. Later Mirage issues, 1987 cartoon, Archie comics, movies, Next Mutation, 2003 series, 2007 movie, IDW comics, and the 2012 series all take somewhat different takes on the turtles, all 'straying from the source material' in their own ways.

Plus ... Peter Laird is not a 'hack'. Don't ... don't even get me started.

Peter Laird the dork gave us the GOD awful 2k3 series. The melodramatic, poorly written, one dimensional turtles. Bastardized Mirage storylines, chalk full of toy slinging agendas, stuffed with cheese, and the worst forced comedy I've ever seen in my life.

At least the '87 Toon understood the TMNT, their essence, the satire the original creation was. The sarcastic humor. The first 5 episodes of the Wolf Toon > 2k3 series.

Peter Laird is only of any use when he has a guy like Eastman to balance out his hoaky, corny, cheesy ideas. Same way David Goyer is only great when he has someone sophisticated like Chris Nolan balancing out his cheesy dorky nature. Or in MOS 2's case, the writer of Argo, Chris Terrio.

... I said to not even get me started.

They are gonna eat you alive for saying that...

You know ... I really want to.

No they won't ... because it's what I said is the truth from my perspective. The 2k3 series sucks. It started off decent, then quickly fell off a cliff in terms of quality. I was shocked when I watched the Nick toon, and was genuinely laughing ... actually engaged to the characterizations. The 2k3 is piss poor writing by comparison.

Okay ... you know what? Sure, you can have your own opinion. But I really have to disagree. The 2003 series is not poorly written as you said. Do not tell me it has one dimensional characters for the turtles ... Raph was WAY less one dimensional then the 2012 or 1987 series, I'll just leave it at that.

"Peter Laird is only of any use when he has a guy like Eastman to balance out his hoaky, corny, cheesy ideas." ... if it wasn't for Peter, we wouldn't have TMNT around today. Kevin left him to do his own thing in the 90s, and just now came out of the woodwork. Peter was the one who kept the whole franchise moving forward ... by himself. And, I disagree with your argument that Peter has "hoaky, corny, cheesy ideas".

Regarding the 2k3 series, you said "worst forced comedy I've ever seen in my life"? Well, it didn't exactly do the best in that department, I'll agree with that.

I need to see the 2nd and 3rd season. I've only season the 1st straight through ep by ep (got the DVD) before the others got skyhigh expensive from being hard to find. :(

I'm sure you know this, but they're all on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/tmntuploader/playlists

Chrell Shredder was a joke. The worst re-invention in the franchise's history. Hopefully if that is in the new film it's better in execution.

:blanksta:

[AlphaAF]

They're falling for my tricks.

Excccccellent.

Yea insinuating I'm calling others dumb for not agreeing with Puddinpop ... possibly to silence someone who is positive about something you're not .. with potential influence on trigger happy moderators to have me banned is falling for your "tricks"

:roll:

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Yea insinuating I'm calling others dumb for not agreeing with Puddinpop ... possibly to silence someone who is positive about something you're not .. with potential influence on trigger happy moderators to have me banned is falling for your "tricks"

:roll:

Heh, you missed my joke.

Note I quoted you saying you included me in those you found intelligent (I underlined and bolded that for emphasis on my quote), to which I replied.

It's basically "I've tricked them into thinking I'M intelligent" is what it was saying. ;)

My sense of humor is often self-depreciating. Almost all humor is at someone's expense, so I figure it might as well be at one's own expense rather than someone else's. :D

[samxsteal]

Heh, you missed my joke.

Note I quoted you saying you included me in those you found intelligent (I underlined and bolded that for emphasis on my quote), to which I replied.

It's basically "I've tricked them into thinking I'M intelligent" is what it was saying. ;)

"I got that reference, i know that one."

CA

[SwiftNinjaFox]

"I got that reference, i know that one."

CA

:lol: Nice

I'm sure you know this, but they're all on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/tmntuploader/playlists

Yes...yes...now to find the time.

But this only solves half the problem. I can watch them. But...I think I need to own them. NEEEEED.

[Puddinpop]

We hate on Eastman? And not once have I seen anyone here call him Hack. Hack is an insulting word on here, especially towards one of the creators. We also not supposed to say anything hateful towards the 80's toon either. It's in the rules. In fact, the Laird interview about his view on the movie, is locked up because people who seem to be pro movie, were definitely turning it into a war zone, while the Eastman interview is still up. You do the math.

Yea.. the 80s cartoon.. he specifically defended the 80s cartoon. But gave his opinion on the 2003 one. I have heard people call Eastman a hack and id post the posts myself if i knew it wouldn't cause another war. He didn't call anyone on here a hack. I've done the math.. and the math tells me that people will argue until they're blue in the face. I'm as guilty as the next guy.. Its just not even worth it anymore.

[electric_sheep]

Yea.. the 80s cartoon.. he specifically defended the 80s cartoon. But gave his opinion on the 2003 one. I have heard people call Eastman a hack and id post the posts myself if i knew it wouldn't cause another war. He didn't call anyone on here a hack. I've done the math.. and the math tells me that people will argue until they're blue in the face. I'm as guilty as the next guy.. Its just not even worth it anymore.

Eastman will defend anything, he defended the NM for god's sake, and that's why they got him to promote this movie...

[Warhorse]

Yea.. the 80s cartoon.. he specifically defended the 80s cartoon. But gave his opinion on the 2003 one. I have heard people call Eastman a hack and id post the posts myself if i knew it wouldn't cause another war. He didn't call anyone on here a hack. I've done the math.. and the math tells me that people will argue until they're blue in the face. I'm as guilty as the next guy.. Its just not even worth it anymore.

What he did was violate rule #2, by trolling ( (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments) People on here asked him to refrain calling Laird a hack, and he keeps on doing it, so now it's flaming.

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Yes...yes...now to find the time.

But this only solves half the problem. I can watch them. But...I think I need to own them. NEEEEED.

Yeah, that was the same problem I had awhile ago. A few years ago (2011-ish?) I invested a whole lot of time and money to get the entire run on DVD, and I am so satisfied I did. They are so hard to find now, even more impossible to find then 2011. At least for a good, reasonable price.

Eastman will defend anything, he defended the NM for god's sake, and that's why they got him to promote this movie...

Hahaha! :lol:

[AlphaAF]

What he did was violate rule #2, by trolling ( (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments) People on here asked him to refrain calling Laird a hack, and he keeps on doing it, so now it's flaming.

No I wasn't. That's my legit opinion. So if it's different than a popular opinion I'm deemed a troll? I tried settling this with you in private.

Because I defended the film you claimed I was a "studio plant" and that I worked for Platinum Dunes (I wish I was getting paid to defend a movie that looks fun about a property I love since childhood)

Clarification I think Laird is a hack ON HIS OWN, with Eastman? I've clearly said together they're legendary.

I'm not disrespecting the fact he's a CO creator of a legendary property. Same way Bob Kane is a hack on his own. But with Bill Finger?

Legends are born.

If Eastman defends everything? Why isn't anyone upset at the fact Laird is intensely cynical?

[GeneralTragg]

Back on topic...

This comes from a man who knows what colour hats the turtles wear...

How can it honour the origin when Shredder is a white business man and Splinter is apparently a lab rat with apparently no connection to Hamato Yoshi? I mean I heart my IDW but I really can't see them taking time out from explosions and the military to cover a reincarnation plot point...

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Eastman will defend anything, he defended the NM for god's sake, and that's why they got him to promote this movie...

people seem to forget that Eastman will praise anything TMNT

i mean don't get me wrong i love the guy, met him twice and Both times had long conversations about why he Loves Venus and wishes she would return

[samxsteal]

What he did was violate rule #2, by trolling ( (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments) People on here asked him to refrain calling Laird a hack, and he keeps on doing it, so now it's flaming.

If that's the case then Multiple member do this everyday I deal with the same thing just Opposite view, And if they can get away with saying its just there opinion then he should to. Seriously it doesn't work just one way its both or none. I Like both Peter and Kevin but he has every right to Say his point of view, Regardless of what others Opinions are, Heck People Discuss the Negative view all the time that there opinion whether it about NM, the new movie, laird, Peter Or what ever does not matter its his opinion and if you disagree ignore him, Just like everyone else tells the movie supports to do.

[Puddinpop]

Thanks to Puddinpop for defending me, and understanding the hypocrisy with board members, moderators, and the very essence of the technodrome forum.

Intelligent guy that poster.
Thanks dude!! This is true.. Except for the mods.. I think they have been incredibly fair, Esp. Jester.. I cant imagine getting bombarded with complaints everyday and trying to be fair with it all.
What he did was violate rule #2, by trolling ( (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments) People on here asked him to refrain calling Laird a hack, and he keeps on doing it, so now it's flaming.

Seriously? Trolling??? OMG if that is the case then ban us all!!

[SwiftNinjaFox]

people seem to forget that Eastman will praise anything TMNT

i mean don't get me wrong i love the guy, met him twice and Both times had long conversations about why he Loves Venus and wishes she would return

If you have time, would you mine PMing me about that conversation? I'm curious regarding why he loved Venus, etc. Wonder what he thought of some of the original Archie additions or Alopex and Koya. That'd be a fun conversation to have.

Thanks dude!! This is true.. Except for the mods.. I think they have been incredibly fair, Esp. Jester.. I cant imagine getting bombarded with complaints everyday and trying to be fair with it all.

As them punk teenagers say these days.....

Mad props to Jester. Seriously.

[samxsteal]

people seem to forget that Eastman will praise anything TMNT

i mean don't get me wrong i love the guy, met him twice and Both times had long conversations about why he Loves Venus and wishes she would return

People also seem to forget that hes Also heavily involved with the Nick series show as well as IDW at the moment and both of those are great works.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

People also seem to forget that hes Also heavily involved with the Nick series show as well as IDW at the moment and both of those are great works.

not to be a naysayer but that is because they are both popular right now..

its the whole if its popular no need to bring it up, and mad props to him

no one is going to question it if everyone likes it

but we can't deny he has praised some questionable TMNT things in the past

[samxsteal]

not to be a naysayer but that is because they are both popular right now..

its the whole if its popular no need to bring it up, and mad props to him

no one is going to question it if everyone likes it

but we can't deny he has praised some questionable TMNT things in the past
ANd peter was Never involved in anything questionable???
Nope hes Untouchable ok

[electric_sheep]

ANd peter was Never involved in anything questionable???
Nope hes Untouchable ok

Have we seriously fallen that low that we will attact the creators to make our argument's valid?

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

ANd peter was Never involved in anything questionable???
Nope hes Untouchable ok

i had this long post typed up but i deleted the whole thing. im just tired of this whole place

[Cure]

Both creators suck in their own ways.

[samxsteal]

Both creators suck in their own ways.

IM not trying to bash any creators But im saying they both have the faults and the strengths And to told one above the other is what irritating Peter untouchable, yet Kevin's a pansy, Its outrageous. I love them both equally but its this whole ideal that everything involved with this movie is terrible, Kevin involved so hes thus picked apart.

[slingtheory]

ANd peter was Never involved in anything questionable???
Nope hes Untouchable ok


neither are untouchable. they've both taken risks at different times. it doesn't make either one better or worse than the other. both of them have made decisions that I may not agree with but that's par for the course when you're trying to evolve a franchise. you take risks that might not go over too well but it doesn't devalue the work they've done together and separately

[samxsteal]

neither are untouchable. they've both taken risks at different times. it doesn't make either one better or worse than the other. both of them have made decisions that I may not agree with but that's par for the course when you're trying to evolve a franchise. you take risks that might not go over too well but it doesn't devalue the work they've done together and separately

Exactly thank you

[Puddinpop]

i had this long post typed up but i deleted the whole thing. im just tired of this whole place
I just did the same thing.. its just not worth it. Just clashing opinions..
Both creators suck in their own ways.
This is true.. They are not immune to criticism.
IM not trying to bash any creators But im saying they both have the faults and the strengths And to told one above the other is what irritating Peter untouchable, yet Kevin's a pansy, Its outrageous. I love them both equally but its this whole ideal that everything involved with this movie is terrible, Kevin involved so hes thus picked apart.

I agree.. I love both creators but I have my reservations.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I just did the same thing.. its just not worth it. Just clashing opinions..

honestly not to start nothing but its not about clashing opinions

its about people not reading post or skipping to just what they want

and i hate to point fingers but with me being on the leery side, its the positive side that seems to do it

i literally posted something praising eastman..saying the guy is great

yet because i have nothing "bad" to say about Laird ..

or saying because eastman praises IDW and nick and no one really brings it up, because people remember the bad over the good

apparently i am saying Laird is untouchable?

do i like all of 2k3? no and a lot of Lairds choices aren't great either in my eyes...never liked utrom shredder to this day dont


but guess what Eastman is more vocal, that is his personality so he says things and people remember..Laird isnt as vocal unless he is asked


this whole bored just tired me..its not about posting turtles things anymore its about having to defend yourself because i am a "hater" and not a "die hard" fan because i dont love every aspect of tmnt


when in fact i actually adore 2 of the most hated things in the tmnt fandom..so does that mean everyone else is the "hater"

[RedRocBoy]

I have nothing to worry about, very optimistic since the start. :tcool:

Amen brother.

[Andrew NDB]

I think people are glossing over the most glaring part:

"They’re more kind of a humanized version. I can say that I’m pretty certain that there’s a really good reason that they look the way they do and in order for us to really bring the turtles to life with the technology that we have in a way that’s never been done before, which is trying to capture the nuances of a human performance, and copy and paste that onto a turtle there was no other way than to humanize their face a little bit because a traditional turtle’s mouth couldn’t be translated into that human DNA. There’s no way to make that performance translate and what we’re trying to do is to create a truer more real life performance."

Yikes. So he's dissuading people from worrying much, because we're going to see a legitimate reason for why they're humanized?

As in, because they're humans? Or because the mutagen is the touch this, become that variety again? Either way, it's dogsh*t and apocrypha.

[electric_sheep]

I think people are glossing over the most glaring part:

"They’re more kind of a humanized version. I can say that I’m pretty certain that there’s a really good reason that they look the way they do and in order for us to really bring the turtles to life with the technology that we have in a way that’s never been done before, which is trying to capture the nuances of a human performance, and copy and paste that onto a turtle there was no other way than to humanize their face a little bit because a traditional turtle’s mouth couldn’t be translated into that human DNA. There’s no way to make that performance translate and what we’re trying to do is to create a truer more real life performance."

Yikes. So he's dissuading people from worrying much, because we're going to see a legitimate reason for why they're humanized?

As in, because they're humans? Or because the mutagen is the touch this, become that variety again? Either way, it's dogsh*t and apocrypha.

Yeah, Smaug was motion capture and he had no lips and he talked and no one wondered how did he talk, They are just trying to cover their asses and defend their crappy designs...
It's movie magic, you don't question it, where did Robocop's chinguard go when he took of the mask? No one knows and no one cares because they don't need to know...

To quote Mr. Plinkett
This guy Lucas has got us all by the balls. His fingers are in our wallets. Get your finger out of my ass wallet!

also The magic of techology ruins the magic of cinema.

[Xav]

when in fact i actually adore 2 of the most hated things in the tmnt fandom..so does that mean everyone else is the "hater"And what things are those? Next Mutation? Venus?

[Puddinpop]

honestly not to start nothing but its not about clashing opinions

its about people not reading post or skipping to just what they want

and i hate to point fingers but with me being on the leery side, its the positive side that seems to do it

i literally posted something praising eastman..saying the guy is great

yet because i have nothing "bad" to say about Laird ..

or saying because eastman praises IDW and nick and no one really brings it up, because people remember the bad over the good

apparently i am saying Laird is untouchable?

do i like all of 2k3? no and a lot of Lairds choices aren't great either in my eyes...never liked utrom shredder to this day dont


but guess what Eastman is more vocal, that is his personality so he says things and people remember..Laird isnt as vocal unless he is asked


this whole bored just tired me..its not about posting turtles things anymore its about having to defend yourself because i am a "hater" and not a "die hard" fan because i dont love every aspect of tmnt


when in fact i actually adore 2 of the most hated things in the tmnt fandom..so does that mean everyone else is the "hater"

Its not the clashing of opinions that causes these spats? Its not just one side its both sides. That is an undeniable fact. You are pointing fingers and blaming one side when its obviously both sides. You don't think people in the " stoked" crowd have had to defend themselves? Come on Boston you know that's not true.. I've had it done MANY times to me.. Where just ONE sentence, even one WORD is taken purposely out of context and thrown back at me just for the sake of argument. If your not criticized as being too critical your criticized as being a mindless sheep swallowing anything that is fed to you. I know its wrong.. and pathetic.. I understand that this forum can be a bit much and that some people get nasty and defensive " i have in the past " but overall these are discussions... they are the clashing of opinions. The clashing of EGO'S. It was bound to get heated as there is passion on both sides of the fence. That is why I try to take little breathers from this section.

[Radical Raph]

Looks like another thread is going to be locked up with all of the flame posts.
At least this place is more lively now. Been nothing but tumbleweeds the last few days. I'd rather read a bunch of passionate people arguing than nothing at all.

[MiBs]

i had this long post typed up but i deleted the whole thing. im just tired of this whole place

I know what you mean. I really want to follow the threads in the movie section, but I get headaches from reading the same quarrels over and over again.

[FrankRightNow]

Now I may be wrong but I somehow remember reading alan richson saying in an interview that he didn't grow up with the turtles or he books. And now he's saying he did. I know will said he never read any of them but I'm pretty sure AR said the same thing

[samxsteal]

Now I may be wrong but I somehow remember reading alan richson saying in an interview that he didn't grow up with the turtles or he books. And now he's saying he did. I know will said he never read any of them but I'm pretty sure AR said the same thing

Pretty much every single interview i have ever seen or heard, says other wise?
I have never seen one where he says otherwise

[Fourcylinder]

Here are the facts, both Eastman and Laird have been involved, in varying degrees, with good decisions and not so great decisions, neither one of them are hacks. To be fair, the very nature of the property changed so drastically in such a short amount of time that they were both forced to divide their attention. I don't blame Eastman for walking away for several years, because honestly that is HIS prerogative and I don't blame Laird for selling the franchise because sometimes you just need a change! There is no need to criticize either creator on a personal level because of creative choices they have made in the past. I'm sure it can be boring telling the same exact story over and over and sometimes small changes can refresh a concept for the creator. We may not always like the small changes Laird or Eastman encouraged or promoted, but maybe THEY needed to make these changes to prevent/postpone burning out on the franchise as a whole.

I think we could all stand to learn a little tolerance when it comes to differing opinions, while personally I am not looking forward to this movie and can see nothing that really makes me excited for it but that doesn't mean I cannot appreciate that other fans are really excited. I know that people on this forum by definition are going to care more about the franchise than the average person, hence we will tend to be passionate in our opinions, but can we just try to be a little more civilized? Anyway, that is my opinion, and I don't post often so its probably not worth much haha.

[slingtheory]

Now I may be wrong but I somehow remember reading alan richson saying in an interview that he didn't grow up with the turtles or he books. And now he's saying he did. I know will said he never read any of them but I'm pretty sure AR said the same thing
this is his original interview."I actually didn't read any of the comic books- and I really hope I don't offend anyone saying that- but for me, I think we all know who Raphael is. He's known as the angry hothead of the group. He is quick tempered and is quick to act. He is less thoughtful of people's feelings and emotions and consequences. That's something I can relate to as a person. I am very quick to act, like, 'Okay, decision's made, let's go for it.'

So I can relate to him in that sense, but I think just zoning in on who that guy is and then understanding the back story... how these guys were formed in the context of our story and where they came from, and the feelings of abandonment or betrayal. All those very real human feelings are something that are contained within that world, and I think we did a good job of creating a setting and a foundation for that.

So I had everything that I needed to create that character there. So I didn't actually rely so heavily on somebody else's perspective of Raphael twenty years ago, which to be honest like many of the cartoons like, this dude is smiling a lot. You know, they all look the same and there is so a much greater level of like, individual personality in this new reboot, you know that we haven't seen before. So there wasn't a lot for me to relate to, but I don't know if people will understand where I am coming from, maybe until they see it, I don't know.

I think as far as Ninja Turtles, I played a comic book hero [Aquaman] before, so I had some experience with trying to bring a character like that to life. It's challenging because a comic book can span decades and there is an infinite number of authors to go to. The source material changes and these characters' identities change. We still see it every day, like Superman is gay now in comic book nine hundred and eighty one, it's like 'Okay well, that's different then than the guy that started out in number one.'"
he said he never read a comic so when talks about being a fan and growing up with it you can assume he's only referring to the original toon and the first three movies. it doesn't discount his feeling about the franchise but in my opinion it doesn't really put him in a position to know what the "diehard" fans want. just thinking about myself my ideas about the turtles and what I would want to see in a movie have changed a lot since I was exposed to the source material,

[electric_sheep]

this is his original interview."I actually didn't read any of the comic books- and I really hope I don't offend anyone saying that- but for me, I think we all know who Raphael is. He's known as the angry hothead of the group. He is quick tempered and is quick to act. He is less thoughtful of people's feelings and emotions and consequences. That's something I can relate to as a person. I am very quick to act, like, 'Okay, decision's made, let's go for it.'

So I can relate to him in that sense, but I think just zoning in on who that guy is and then understanding the back story... how these guys were formed in the context of our story and where they came from, and the feelings of abandonment or betrayal. All those very real human feelings are something that are contained within that world, and I think we did a good job of creating a setting and a foundation for that.

So I had everything that I needed to create that character there. So I didn't actually rely so heavily on somebody else's perspective of Raphael twenty years ago, which to be honest like many of the cartoons like, this dude is smiling a lot. You know, they all look the same and there is so a much greater level of like, individual personality in this new reboot, you know that we haven't seen before. So there wasn't a lot for me to relate to, but I don't know if people will understand where I am coming from, maybe until they see it, I don't know.

I think as far as Ninja Turtles, I played a comic book hero [Aquaman] before, so I had some experience with trying to bring a character like that to life. It's challenging because a comic book can span decades and there is an infinite number of authors to go to. The source material changes and these characters' identities change. We still see it every day, like Superman is gay now in comic book nine hundred and eighty one, it's like 'Okay well, that's different then than the guy that started out in number one.'"
he said he never read a comic so when talks about being a fan and growing up with it you can assume he's only referring to the original toon and the first three movies. it doesn't discount his feeling about the franchise but in my opinion it doesn't really put him in a position to know what the "diehard" fans want. just thinking about myself my ideas about the turtles and what I would want to see in a movie have changed a lot since I was exposed to the source material,

I think that only raphael he's familiar is from the 87 cartoon, he sayes that that they are the same and that we never seen them have distinct personalitis before, does he know about live action movie? It's the same thing when guy who plays Vernon talked about he's a fan and how Vernon is a charachter from the comics.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Its not the clashing of opinions that causes these spats?

normally yes but what i was referencing was more about the creators than different opinions


You are pointing fingers and blaming one side when its obviously both sides

its true it is both sides and i agree with everything you said..i even have nothing against you personally. i picked on the "Stoked" side for my post because i am on the leery side

but anyways on topic




i agree with what everyone is saying its nice to see someone besides fox and bay talk about this movie

not gonna lie i wanna here from pete...i wanna know if he is ok being "Recast" or if it bugs him

[tmntmikey23]

my opinion is that Alan Ritchson is right we should be thankful that they did not make them Teenage Mutant ninja Frogs. they still look Just like turtles it makes me very mad that half of this forum would complain for little things that are mean less. anyone agree with me ? :D:D i am very happy about this movie coming out and NO one can change my Opinion not like you are right ??

[tmntmikey23]

Its not the clashing of opinions that causes these spats? Its not just one side its both sides. That is an undeniable fact. You are pointing fingers and blaming one side when its obviously both sides. You don't think people in the " stoked" crowd have had to defend themselves? Come on Boston you know that's not true.. I've had it done MANY times to me.. Where just ONE sentence, even one WORD is taken purposely out of context and thrown back at me just for the sake of argument. If your not criticized as being too critical your criticized as being a mindless sheep swallowing anything that is fed to you. I know its wrong.. and pathetic.. I understand that this forum can be a bit much and that some people get nasty and defensive " i have in the past " but overall these are discussions... they are the clashing of opinions. The clashing of EGO'S. It was bound to get heated as there is passion on both sides of the fence. That is why I try to take little breathers from this section.

i agree PP i feel like if i mistake a word or my grammar is bad that it starts a big fight for nothing and if i stick up for my self they get more ruder and bad :( but back to topic this guy Alan did nothing bad why should you guys get mad he is 101% right this movie "honors the origin story"

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

which to be honest like many of the cartoons like, this dude is smiling a lot. You know, they all look the same and there is so a much greater level of like, individual personality in this new reboot, you know that we haven't seen before.

That we haven't seen before? That's funny, because I saw an individual personality for Raphael and Raphael wasn't 'smiling a lot' in the 1990 film. And the 2007 film. And the 2003 cartoon. And even the new 2012 cartoon. And yet it's in the 'we haven't seen before' crowd?

And yet I'm supposed to listen to this guy, when he doesn't know what he is talking about and it's like he is just thinking that the only thing with the Turtles (let alone Raphael) was the 'smiling a lot' 80's cartoon?

I hate to break it to Mr. Ritchson, and I mean no offense, but there is more out there than just the Original Cartoon.

Also, in His Words, he says "I actually didn't read any of the comic books". If that's the case, then how does he know that it 'honors the origin story' if he didn't read where they originally came from, let alone read the origin story which was In The Comic Books? Or is he just talking about 'it honors origin story of the cartoon'?

I'd say he's talking about the live action movies, but I can't say that if he is talking about "individual personalities" (which they did...Raph, Leo, and such did have individual personalities...same with the 2007 film, the 2003 cartoon, and so on ) and also 'where Raphael wasn't 'smiling a lot'. And yet he's talking about how we haven't seen that before? Again, we saw that in pretty much Every Single Format That Raphael Has Been In, OTHER than the Original Cartoon!

So, again in all due respect...why am I supposed to be taking this guy seriously at his word?

And I know, people will say "but no, he's talking about the looks of the Turtles". But there is more to 'personalities' than JUST looks. And I got absolutely understood and saw that 'individual personality in pretty much all of the 'incarnations of Raphael'. He was still a distinct personality from the other Turtles. Sorry, just that whole 'smiling a lot' summation just made me think "Alan, did you not see any of the other stuff with Raphael in it?"

[sethmartin]

Wow. 7 pages of shouting. The point of this thread was simply to share new movie news. Alan Ritchson stated in an interview that the new movie "honors the origin story". This is considered news because it comes from someone actually involved in the production and not fan opinion. If for some reason you think he's lying or don't believe him that's fine, but he knows better than any of us and we'll all find out on August 8. I don't know why these things have to escalate to name calling and fighting.

[slingtheory]

the one thing I think all the different interviews I've read have in common is that that there has been no mention of anything outside of the fred wolf toon and old movies. the only mention of the comics so far has been ritchson saying he hasn't read them and Arnett mistakenly saying that's where his character comes from. now don't get me wrong because I'm not saying anyone needs to have a degree in turtleology to deliver a solid movie but when they only seem invested in the most main stream interpretation its hard to give these guys the benefit of the doubt when they say they think this will be a great movie for fans.

[electric_sheep]

the one thing I think all the different interviews I've read have in common is that that there has been no mention of anything outside of the fred wolf toon and old movies. the only mention of the comics so far has been ritchson saying he hasn't read them and Arnett mistakenly saying that's where his character comes from. now don't get me wrong because I'm not saying anyone needs to have a degree in turtleology to deliver a solid movie buts its hard to give these guys the benefit of the doubt when they say they think this will be a great movie for fans and the only seem invested in the most main stream interpretation.

BLue door had 0 comics in there, or zero anything turtles really, maybe they took the same route here...
The biggest **** you to me was when the turtles go back to the lair and they put black head masks on, they couldn't give that little, they couldn't just make the masks red. I don't trust these people...

[sethmartin]

BLue door had 0 comics in there, or zero anything turtles really, maybe they took the same route here...
The biggest **** you to me was when the turtles go back to the lair and they put black head masks on, they couldn't give that little, they couldn't just make the masks red. I don't trust these people...

I would say that most people who are fans of the turtles have never read the comics. They learned from the cartoons and movies. The original comics were difficult to track down for the longest time (at least in some sort of chronological order that could be followed.) So I don't really expect actors to be all that familiar with them. Doesn't mean that they are unfamiliar with the turtles, the origin, or what it's all about. Just means that they were fans of the other turtles media instead. I never read the original Batman or Superman comics, but I know the characters and what it's all about because of the various movies, tv, and pop culture. So it's not necessary for all of the actors involved to be experts on the comics. However, I do expect the writers to be familiar with the comics, whether they choose to draw from them or not. The first TMNT comic book is the greatest Ninja Turtles story ever told in my opinion.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I would say that most people who are fans of the turtles have never read the comics. They learned from the cartoons and movies.

i cant speak for everyone..but i know in my life since around my senior year in HS untill now, i get many friends who "educate" me by saying "did you know originally all 4 turtles wore red"


i am not saying that they all read the comics, because most of these guys and gals are the GA when it comes to this movie..but the comics are known enough to make in impact

especially when we live in the world of the internet

not dont get me wrong..i can post a pic of the mirage turtles and people go "Why are they all raph"

but im just saying, people know more than hollywood gives them credit for


now i am not saying these guys need a masters degree in turtles, but they shouldn't try to pretend they know more than then do


one of the things i liked about Toby maguire as spiderman is that he admitted he had little knowledge of the web head lore aside from the basic, and only after he got the role did he buy tons of comics to get the right idea

[Candy Kappa]

So... Which origin are they honoring, or which Alan thinks they are honoring.

The origin is tweaked with each incarnation.

[GeneralTragg]

now dont get me wrong..i can post a pic of the mirage turtles and people go "Why are they all raph"

In that case they'd probably say: 'Why are they all Ralph?' :roll:

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

In that case they'd probably say: 'Why are they all Ralph?' :roll:

not as often as youd think...Muppet wise ive heard Rowlf be called "Ralph"

[GeneralTragg]

not as often as youd think...Muppet wise ive heard Rowlf be called "Ralph"

It's more of a common misspelling, but that and Mickey annoy me no end...

[slingtheory]

I would say that most people who are fans of the turtles have never read the comics. They learned from the cartoons and movies. The original comics were difficult to track down for the longest time (at least in some sort of chronological order that could be followed.) So I don't really expect actors to be all that familiar with them. Doesn't mean that they are unfamiliar with the turtles, the origin, or what it's all about. Just means that they were fans of the other turtles media instead. I never read the original Batman or Superman comics, but I know the characters and what it's all about because of the various movies, tv, and pop culture. So it's not necessary for all of the actors involved to be experts on the comics. However, I do expect the writers to be familiar with the comics, whether they choose to draw from them or not. The first TMNT comic book is the greatest Ninja Turtles story ever told in my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me its a little like someone only being familiar with the 60s batman show and saying they expect this new batman movie they star in to do the character justice. how am I supposed to trust their judgment when they're only used to character and his world being imagined one way. I understand what you're saying and I agree to an extant because like you I've become a fan of plenty of characters without reading the source material. but at the same time if I was cast in a movie to portray one of those characters there's no way I wouldn't take the opportunity to make sure I do it as much justice as possible by doing the research and understanding the characters history for myself. and if I wasn't willing to do that there's no way i'd be willing to say to other fans they shouldn't worry

[sethmartin]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me its a little like someone only being familiar with the 60s batman show and saying they expect this new batman movie they star in to do the character justice. how am I supposed to trust their judgment when they're only used to character and his world being imagined one way. I understand what you're saying and I agree to an extant because like you I've become a fan of plenty of characters without reading the source material. but at the same time if I was cast in a movie to portray one of those characters there's no way I wouldn't take the opportunity to make sure I do it as much justice as possible by doing the research and understanding the characters history for myself. and if I wasn't willing to do that there's no way i'd be willing to say to other fans they shouldn't worry

I agree. If I was cast as one of the characters or I was the one making the film, I would research as much as possible. I'm not justifying the fact that the actors didn't read the comics. I just understand why they probably didn't.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

I actually didn't read any of the comic books- and I really hope I don't offend anyone saying that- but for me, I think we all know who Raphael is. He's known as the angry hothead of the group. He is quick tempered and is quick to act. He is less thoughtful of people's feelings and emotions and consequences. That's something I can relate to as a person. I am very quick to act, like, 'Okay, decision's made, let's go for it.'


Not sure why people think he's primarily basing his experience on the cartoon. When was Raph the angry hot head that acted first and considered consequences later in the cartoon? He was more the sarcastic wise cracker in the cartoon.

Sure, he may be basing it from the movies rather than the comic, but I don't see the cartoon-only idea there.

I just wonder if any of them read the original comics for the movie prep or such. As in, never read them, got the role, read some to get a feel for the character in the original version, etc.

Even if the actor just didn't do it, that wouldn't be as annoying as Singer's edict banning the actors from reading X-Men comics when they were filming.

[Gimme_Three]

That we haven't seen before? That's funny, because I saw an individual personality for Raphael and Raphael wasn't 'smiling a lot' in the 1990 film. And the 2007 film. And the 2003 cartoon. And even the new 2012 cartoon. And yet it's in the 'we haven't seen before' crowd?

And yet I'm supposed to listen to this guy, when he doesn't know what he is talking about and it's like he is just thinking that the only thing with the Turtles (let alone Raphael) was the 'smiling a lot' 80's cartoon?

I hate to break it to Mr. Ritchson, and I mean no offense, but there is more out there than just the Original Cartoon.

Also, in His Words, he says "I actually didn't read any of the comic books". If that's the case, then how does he know that it 'honors the origin story' if he didn't read where they originally came from, let alone read the origin story which was In The Comic Books? Or is he just talking about 'it honors origin story of the cartoon'?

I'd say he's talking about the live action movies, but I can't say that if he is talking about "individual personalities" (which they did...Raph, Leo, and such did have individual personalities...same with the 2007 film, the 2003 cartoon, and so on ) and also 'where Raphael wasn't 'smiling a lot'. And yet he's talking about how we haven't seen that before? Again, we saw that in pretty much Every Single Format That Raphael Has Been In, OTHER than the Original Cartoon!

So, again in all due respect...why am I supposed to be taking this guy seriously at his word?

And I know, people will say "but no, he's talking about the looks of the Turtles". But there is more to 'personalities' than JUST looks. And I got absolutely understood and saw that 'individual personality in pretty much all of the 'incarnations of Raphael'. He was still a distinct personality from the other Turtles. Sorry, just that whole 'smiling a lot' summation just made me think "Alan, did you not see any of the other stuff with Raphael in it?"

Really dude your blind hate for this movie is borderline trolling. When you make a statement try to use reason, logic, and facts to support your argument. You're taking what he said out of context and twisting it in a way to support your half thought out ideas.

He's talking about the technology that will give the turtles more accurate emotions as something "we haven't seen before." So your whole rant about personalities this and that is null because that's not what AR was trying to convey. He's making that statement about EMOTIONS because he's trying to explain why they went that route with the facial designs. In order to give the turtles more life like expressions they had to give them noses and lips. why do they need life like expressions? because It will give you an emotional connection to the character through the actors real life performance. That's AR opinion and beliefs pertaining to the design.

In case you didn't know we are the minority (hardcore fans) the majority of tmnt fans are people that grew up watching the fred wolf series and todays younger generation. We are the ones who check this website everyday, collect action figures, watch the nick series as grown adults, ect. What we do is not normal as adults, so you have to forgive him if can't quote lines from the mirage comics. To your average fan the FW series is the source and that's who this movie should target because that's where the money is at! The turtles origin is different in every incarnation so why even try to disprove what he believes the origin to be if it's going to make your stance faulty? In other words why are you going to argue a point that is going to contradict one of your personal gripes with the movie?

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

And what things are those? Next Mutation? Venus?

not sure why it matters...but i am fond of Venus and adore the Comic out of their shells tour


also nin response to the post above me..not sure how a nose is needed to emote

read any characterization book, take a class, ask any animator....they will tell you emotion is solely within the eyes


the eyes are where the emotion loves and dies


also Bumblebee emotes just fine without a real face....or voice

[slingtheory]

In case you didn't know we are the minority (hardcore fans) the majority of tmnt fans are people that grew up watching the fred wolf series and todays younger generation. We are the ones who check this website everyday, collect action figures, watch the nick series as grown adults, ect. What we do is not normal as adults, so you have to forgive him if can't quote lines from the mirage comics. To your average fan the FW series is the source and that's who this movie should target because that's where the money is at! The turtles origin is different in every incarnation so why even try to disprove what he believes the origin to be if it's going to make your stance faulty? In other words why are you going to argue a point that is going to contradict one of your personal gripes with the movie? I think whats normal for an adult to do is subjective but I do agree with you on one thing. this movie is targeting the money and that's why we're getting what we're getting. decisions aren't being made based on what would make the best ninja turtle movie or best represent the franchise but what will put the most butts in seats.

[Coola Yagami]

The tmnt fandom really is insane. This is the equivalent of the most hardcore DBZ fan defending DBZ evolution. Or the most hardcore batman fan defending batman and Robin (though I guess it works as a modern Adam west version).

Years from now when this movie is laid to rest and someone else makes a whole new tmnt movie that captures the iconic look and feel without too much reinvention... People are gonna look back and consider this one to be trash and the ones that blindly supported it to be idiots.

[TurtleTitan97]

The tmnt fandom really is insane. This is the equivalent of the most hardcore DBZ fan defending DBZ evolution.

:teek: Whoa, time out! You're telling me there are people out there that're STILL defending Dragon Ball Evolution?! I'm a Dragon Ball fan, and though I have yet to see the movie in full, what've heard and seen look horrible! Not to mention it's not faithful at all to the manga/anime.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Really dude your blind hate for this movie is borderline trolling.

One can say the exact same thing to most of these people who already have a Blind Love for this new movie.

Really, there is no point responding to the other stuff, because there's no point getting into Dragged out arguments and fights. Because that's all it ever comes down to...being dragged out and then 30 posts later it just ends where it all began.

Just put me on your Ignore List and move on. That's goes for everyone who doesn't want to read what I have to say, and it's no worries.

But these drawn out fights are beyond tedious at this point.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

:teek: Whoa, time out! You're telling me there are people out there that're STILL defending Dragon Ball Evolution?! I'm a Dragon Ball fan, and though I have yet to see the movie in full, what've heard and seen look horrible! Not to mention it's not faithful at all to the manga/anime.

haha yea i didnt think people still defended that movie


well actually thats a lie i have one friend who says it looks cool

and says why couldnt goku be a white dude

but i could even sit through the whole thing...this and airbender

[Glados]

There's a reason I don't post a lot on this forum...

Particularly in this thread people seems to excel in the "picking things out of context"-strategy and the "not reading everything"-technique.

[samxsteal]

The tmnt fandom really is insane. This is the equivalent of the most hardcore DBZ fan defending DBZ evolution. Or the most hardcore batman fan defending batman and Robin (though I guess it works as a modern Adam west version).

Years from now when this movie is laid to rest and someone else makes a whole new tmnt movie that captures the iconic look and feel without too much reinvention... People are gonna look back and consider this one to be trash and the ones that blindly supported it to be idiots.

See it this kind of Comment that just ridiculous.

Hasn't seen it yet its already beyond repair, You dont even know the story of the movie only hunches and theories Half of which are Borderline ridiculous in themselves.

IT baffles me seriously comparing a movie you haven even seen. SMH

As for evolution the movie as a whole is bad But the final Scene His quintessential Dragon ball. though shorter then it should have been but still an amazing Fight scene, with everything a DB fight scene should have.

[TurtleTitan97]

haha yea i didnt think people still defended that movie


well actually thats a lie i have one friend who says it looks cool

and says why couldnt goku be a white dude

but i could even sit through the whole thing...this and airbender

I'll probably watch it in full someday... if I'm like super bored.

But still, I don't really like all the changes it made from the source material. One thing being that Goku wasn't a teenager that attended high school, and neither was Chi-Chi. Another was that Piccolo (the original) was killed by Goku after he punched a hole right through him, and was reincarnated as Piccolo Junior.

[Candy Kappa]

There is two good scenes in Evolution. 1, where Goku tries to comb down his hair with hair gel. And 2, Goku eating a huge piece of meat, which is one of the few comic accurate moments.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I'll probably watch it in full someday... if I'm like super bored.

But still, I don't really like all the changes it made from the source material. One thing being that Goku wasn't a teenager that attended high school, and neither was Chi-Chi. Another was that Piccolo (the original) was killed by Goku after he punched a hole right through him, and was reincarnated as Piccolo Junior.


i cant stand those either

another one i didnt like wa issue was the oozaru went from giant ape warrior beast to human sized weremonkey

and the whole tail being needed was ignored


See it this kind of Comment that just ridiculous.

Hasn't seen it yet its already beyond repair, You dont even know the story of the movie only hunches and theories Half of which are Borderline ridiculous in themselves.

IT baffles me seriously comparing a movie you haven even seen. SMH

As for evolution the movie as a whole is bad But the final Scene His quintessential Dragon ball. though shorter then it should have been but still an amazing Fight scene, with everything a DB fight scene should have.

sam...you are doing the same thing by saying this movie is gonna be great and awesome

youve seen the same about as any naysayer

but i wont get into that, im tired of it...word of advice ignore it..it just starts fights...its as simple as not hitting quote or reply...you arnt going to change peoples minds so its just a waste of a post you getting up in arms

if you cant help but reply then put those of us who anger you on ignore


i am not trying to start a fight with you but its true...these threads go from simple talk to 30 pages of fighting

[electric_sheep]

I'll probably watch it in full someday... if I'm like super bored.

But still, I don't really like all the changes it made from the source material. One thing being that Goku wasn't a teenager that attended high school, and neither was Chi-Chi. Another was that Piccolo (the original) was killed by Goku after he punched a hole right through him, and was reincarnated as Piccolo Junior.

He wasn't reincarnated, Before Lord Picolo died he laid an egg through his mouth from which Picolo Junior hatched so he was his son...
i hate that movie with a passion, it cuts all of Goku's sayan origin and makes some cliche hokey profercy plot, it's very similar to Blue Door...

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

He wasn't reincarnated, Before Lord Picolo died he laid an egg through his mouth from which Picolo Junior hatched so he was his son...

ok last off topic comment i swear...but i always wondered how he "birthed" an egg with a hole in his stomach


silly piccolo..still love the series

[TurtleTitan97]

He wasn't reincarnated, Before Lord Picolo died he laid an egg through his mouth from which Picolo Junior hatched so he was his son...


Yeah, I know that. But He stated in the anime that he was Piccolo reincarnated. Also says so on his Wikipedia page.

ok last off topic comment i swear...but i always wondered how he "birthed" an egg with a hole in his stomach




I've wondered the same thing myself.

[chrisdude]

I think, if they stuck to Mirage, more people would be confused than appreciative. :ohwell:

I mean, I get the logic. The Mirage comics defined the turtles, and it was a huge success. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I just disagree with this idea that whatever worked the very first time is automatically the best way to do it, and any new ideas are an exercise in futility. Especially when Mirage has been outshined by OT, in terms of both popularity and influence.

People love to point to the Dark Knight trilogy, but its "source material" is primarily from the 80's and 90's, decades after Batman debuted. And the same is true for most of these hugely successful comic book movies (read: Marvel), they're based more on recent interpretations than the original comics.

[electric_sheep]

Yeah, I know that. But He stated in the anime that he was Piccolo reincarnated. Also says so on his Wikipedia page.



I've wondered the same thing myself.

Maybe he used his last bits of enegry to produce an egg in his throat?
Sinse Nemekians are basicly Ken dolls and probably have no holles besides their mouths their reproductive organs might be higher.

[samxsteal]

Maybe he used his last bits of enegry to produce an egg in his throat?
Sinse Nemekians are basicly Ken dolls and probably have no holles besides their mouths their reproductive organs might be higher.

Nemekians are A sexual Self reproducing Aliens who reproduce by taking there essence and life force to create offspring

[slingtheory]

The tmnt fandom really is insane. This is the equivalent of the most hardcore DBZ fan defending DBZ evolution. Or the most hardcore batman fan defending batman and Robin (though I guess it works as a modern Adam west version).

Years from now when this movie is laid to rest and someone else makes a whole new tmnt movie that captures the iconic look and feel without too much reinvention... People are gonna look back and consider this one to be trash and the ones that blindly supported it to be idiots.

:teek: Whoa, time out! You're telling me there are people out there that're STILL defending Dragon Ball Evolution?! I'm a Dragon Ball fan, and though I have yet to see the movie in full, what've heard and seen look horrible! Not to mention it's not faithful at all to the manga/anime.

I used to post on a dragonball fan site around when the movie was getting ready to come out and it was pretty much just like whats going on here with arguments breaking out between the optimistic and leery crowds. the movie definitely had its supporters both before and after it came out. a lot of the biggest supporters even did reviews where they said it was just what they wanted it to be. I wouldn't call them idiots but I did get a real sense of rep it to the death from them. ya know now that I think about it alot things about the build to this movie remind me of dbe

[sethmartin]

Isn't it possible that the movie will be a good film even if they changed a lot of the source? I love Batman from 1989 even though they made major changes to the story like the fact that the Joker killed Batman's parents in the movie. It is still enjoyable and that twist in the mythos works in the film even though it's not true to source. I'm excited about the new Turtles movie but I've remained pretty neutral in my opinion on it until I see it. Just because they changed some things doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a BAD movie. It could still be good in it's own way and just be part of another Turtles universe. Just curious.

[Cure]

The problem is that no one can just say they dislike something anymore. Now they have to say it with a bullsh*t air of superiority by saying things like "people who DO like it are insane and idiots! Years from now they'll see!", like they're somehow better than everyone else.

Those are the kinds of people you can't really reason with.

[sethmartin]

The problem is that no one can just say they dislike something anymore. Now they have to say it with a bullsh*t air of superiority by saying things like "people who DO like it are insane and idiots! Years from now they'll see!", like they're somehow better than everyone else.

Those are the kinds of people you can't really reason with.

I agree with this. I wasn't a big fan of Avatar or The Passion of the Christ. Two films that are critically acclaimed and loved by the majority. We all have different tastes. Heck, I can name a ton of movies that have horrible rotten tomatoes ratings that I love! At the same time, I also love tons of movies that are very popular. We all have different tastes and the only person you can trust on whether a movie is good or not is yourself.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Nemekians are A sexual Self reproducing Aliens who reproduce by taking there essence and life force to create offspring

thats not what we are saying..

.he spit and egg out of his mouth..

how when he had a giant hole in his stomach.


has nothing to do with being asexual or how they reproduce


he had a hole in his stomach


its like saying you made a baby with a giant hole where your wing dang doodle goes

.unless he created it in his throat .. which seems likely since we see the bulge in the throat

[electric_sheep]

thats not what we are saying..

.he spit and egg out of his mouth..

how when he had a giant hole in his stomach.


has nothing to do with being asexual or how they reproduce


he had a hole in his stomach

.unless he created it in his throat .. which seems likely since we see the bulge in the throat

Talk about a plot holle...
Goku penetrated him and he gave birth to Picolo, it looks like he creates the egg in his throte
M6OwPsPXyxY

[Xav]

i agree PP i feel like if i mistake a word or my grammar is bad that it starts a big fight for nothing and if i stick up for my self they get more ruder and bad :( but back to topic this guy Alan did nothing bad why should you guys get mad he is 101% right this movie "honors the origin story"How do you know he is right? Have you seen the movie? We know next to nothing about the origin story for this movie other than Eric Sachs and April's dad were "trying to create heroes" which really doesn't sound like any version of the origin story I have ever heard.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

Isn't it possible that the movie will be a good film even if they changed a lot of the source? I love Batman from 1989 even though they made major changes to the story like the fact that the Joker killed Batman's parents in the movie. It is still enjoyable and that twist in the mythos works in the film even though it's not true to source. I'm excited about the new Turtles movie but I've remained pretty neutral in my opinion on it until I see it. Just because they changed some things doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a BAD movie. It could still be good in it's own way and just be part of another Turtles universe. Just curious.

i think it will come down to what is changed and if we ever get reasoning behind it...which sadly i dont see


making Mr O'neil and Sachs the creators of the ooze isnt the issue, since rarely do we see where it comes from

if that is the only change and everything else plays as it usually is ill be ok with it

but saying that shredder directly created them or that somehow its destiny or ,they are an alien turtle race , is more where i see the anger in confusion of fans..by taking a well known origin and not really altering it but changing it completely

and thats ignoring the whole Yoshi/Saki fued...which has been present in ever tmnt incarnation...even 2k3 and they gave it a special twist

think about it this way..Bruce waynes main catalyst to become Batman is that his parents die...no matter what comic,movie,tv show, story,game that never changes...now the guy who kills his parents has been different over the years..but everyone pretty much knows Bruce Wayne's parents die is the first step to Batman



aso side note..i know many people who think joker was the original killer of waynes parents and who where mad it was changed in Batman Begins


Talk about a plot holle...
Goku penetrated him and he gave birth to Picolo, it looks like he creates the egg in his throte
M6OwPsPXyxY


curse you electric now i want to rewatch it all

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

The problem is that no one can just say they dislike something anymore. Now they have to say it with a bullsh*t air of superiority by saying things like "people who DO like it are insane and idiots! Years from now they'll see!", like they're somehow better than everyone else.

Those are the kinds of people you can't really reason with.

So what about the opposite? When some of us do just say that we dislike it, and why we dislike it, give reasons as to why we dislike it or challenge what has been said by the team behind the production, reply to the topic at hand, and more...which is the POINT of a Forum and a thread...and then supporters/fans of the new film are telling us how wrong, stupid, idiotic, 'just hating Just Because' even after giving countless counterpoints or 'you just hate it because it's new or just because it's different (which, if that's the case, then why is it that I enjoy the comics & movies & the 80's cartoon & the 2003 cartoon when all 4 are different from each other)' or 'you're just trolling' or have 'blind hate' even though you have stated your reasons (even if you don't Agree with them...and they don't have that BS superiority?)

I would LOVE more than anything to be proven wrong and for something to happen that goes 'hey, this will shut you up' (because, as people keep saying, it's 'a long wait until August, anything can happen' which is Another thing people have said to me). For me? Nothing yet has done that.

But when I can't discuss anything without someone out of the blue attacking me or saying how 'wrong I am', then YES it gets pretty frustrating. And Instead, I get Told what to do by other people. Especially being told by people who just joined the forum a few months ago.

Am I 100% innocent & always right? Not in the slightest. But speaking personally, I've never made fun of anyone or called anyone names. The only time I would get pulled into that is in having to Defend Myself from a personal attack. And that's been mainly from 'supporters' of the new film. And many times I have said 'to each their own' or 'we agree to disagree' and so on...

I've had one person tell me that I should 'support the film because their brother died in Afghanistan, and since he can't see it I should be proud of the privilege of seeing it.' I've had another guy threaten me by saying 'I should see this certain thing...Or Else'. And I've got more...

[Fjaj]

One can say the exact same thing to most of these people who already have a Blind Love for this new movie.

Really, there is no point responding to the other stuff, because there's no point getting into Dragged out arguments and fights. Because that's all it ever comes down to...being dragged out and then 30 posts later it just ends where it all began.

Just put me on your Ignore List and move on. That's goes for everyone who doesn't want to read what I have to say, and it's no worries.

But these drawn out fights are beyond tedious at this point.

The thing is, they're just being excited for this movie, not actually loving. They're not saying "This movie is awesome!" They're saying "I'm really excited and can't wait for this movie!" While I agree that they aren't a lot of things to be excited about, they're still reserving their judgement. It's fine if you dislike some or all of the elements they've announced (and I completely understand that and dislike some of it myself), but you can't really rationally dislike the movie as a whole. Granted, you probably will not like it since you hate the elements they have out now, but you still need to reserve judgment. It seems to me like all of the people excited have done this, (if I'm wrong provide a link or quote), they are just that, excited, but not saying they like or it's a good movie, because it hasn't come out yet. And your hate for this movie is definitely getting out of hand, at the very least you should accept people's opinions and state the reasons for your own, not keep bashing theirs.

EDIT: After I finished typing this message, you responded with another comment, which had a much more rational and more well spoken opinion, however, I believe what I say here is still relevant, and to some other posters besides you.

[sethmartin]

So what about the opposite? When some of us do just say that we dislike it, and why we dislike it, give reasons as to why we dislike it or challenge what has been said by the team behind the production, reply to the topic at hand, and more...which is the POINT of a Forum and a thread...and then supporters/fans of the new film are telling us how wrong, stupid, idiotic, 'just hating Just Because' even after giving countless counterpoints or 'you just hate it because it's new or just because it's different (which, if that's the case, then why is it that I enjoy the comics & movies & the 80's cartoon & the 2003 cartoon when all 4 are different from each other)' or 'you're just trolling' or have 'blind hate' even though you have stated your reasons (even if you don't Agree with them...and they don't have that BS superiority?)

I would LOVE more than anything to be proven wrong and for something to happen that goes 'hey, this will shut you up' (because, as people keep saying, it's 'a long wait until August, anything can happen' which is Another thing people have said to me). For me? Nothing yet has done that.

But when I can't discuss anything without someone out of the blue attacking me or saying how 'wrong I am', then YES it gets pretty frustrating. And Instead, I get Told what to do by other people. Especially being told by people who just joined the forum a few months ago.

Am I 100% innocent & always right? Not in the slightest. But speaking personally, I've never made fun of anyone or called anyone names. The only time I would get pulled into that is in having to Defend Myself from a personal attack. And that's been mainly from 'supporters' of the new film. And many times I have said 'to each their own' or 'we agree to disagree' and so on...

I've had one person tell me that I should 'support the film because their brother died in Afghanistan, and since he can't see it I should be proud of the privilege of seeing it.' I've had another guy threaten me by saying 'I should see this certain thing...Or Else'. And I've got more...

People who resort to name calling and personal attacks on a forum are pretty lame. There are many valid reasons why some people are not looking forward to this movie. Doesn't make you an idiot because you have a difference of opinion.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

T They're not saying "This movie is awesome!"

i have legit seen a few of these on this very forum

[sethmartin]

i think it will come done to what is changed and if we ever get reasoning behind it...which sadly i dont see


making Mr O'neil and Sachs the creators of the ooze isnt the issue, since rarely do we see where it comes from

if that is the only change and everything else plays as it usually is ill be ok with it

but saying that shredder directly created them or that somehow its destiny or ,they are an alien turtle race , is more where i see the anger in confusion of fans..by taking a well known origin and not really altering it but changing it completely

and thats ignoring the whole Yoshi/Saki fued...which has been present in ever tmnt incarnation...even 2k3 and they gave it a special twist

think about it this way..Bruce waynes main catalyst to become Batman is that his parents die...no matter what comic,movie,tv show, story,game that never changes...now the guy who kills his parents has been different over the years..but everyone pretty much knows Bruce Wayne's parents die is the first step to Batman



aso side note..i know many people who think joker was the original killer of waynes parents and who where mad it was changed in Batman Begins





curse you electric now i want to rewatch it all

Yeah I've met people who think that the Joker killed Batman's parents too but I can't say anything about that because that's what I thought until I went back later and read the comics lol.

I may be getting my hopes up, but I'm really hoping that they are borrowing from the IDW series. It's certainly not my favorite origin for the Turtles. (I prefer the version told in the 1990 movie.) There is no evidence right now pointing to any other origin but in IDW we know that Splinter starts out as a lab rat and that April's father worked at Stockgen. These two elements seem to be part of the new movie but it may not be the same as the comics. Even the 1990 movie took some liberties with the origin. I'll give the film a chance no matter what it is but I do agree that something will definitely feel "off" about the film if there is no Yoshi/Saki reference.

[Coola Yagami]

I said many times before that I'd gladly eat my words once shown something worth making me so do. It's not my fault every time they show something it just further sinks the concept into the ground.

It's like one guy said here once paraphrasing 'sure i'll go see the movie, but will it change the fact that the turtles will be over all that extra gear, shredder is played by a white guy named eric sachs and april is played by megan fox'.

So far the only thing that will shut me up is if the director steps out and acts like 'LOL I just be trollin'' and show us the REAL TMNT movie.

[Galactus]

Ritchson ETHERS you hating clowns again. This movie is going to be a sleeper hit.

Yeah...he didn't with his previous "defence" of the movie and he doesn't here but to his credit it's nice that he tries when he doesn't really know the full details himself and isn't something he needs to do.

Also you think this movie will be a "sleeper hit"? So you don't think it's going to be instantly successful? Hmmm

[Glados]

This thread... I'm fine with people not being enthusiastic about the movie, I have my reservations against it too. But something that annoys me is that a lot of the stuff the most hard-core "leery" folks are using to justify their stance is stuff that is pure speculation, outdated or simply made up and they just refuse to put it away as anything else but "truth". The truth actually is that we know next to nothing about this films plot. Speculations are fine and natural, but at least don't hold them as facts just because you want to support your opinion.

[samxsteal]

This thread... I'm fine with people not being enthusiastic about the movie, I have my reservations against it too. But something that annoys me is that a lot of the stuff the most hard-core "leery" folks are using to justify their stance is stuff that is pure speculation, outdated or simply made up and they just refuse to put it away as anything else but "truth". The truth actually is that we know next to nothing about this films plot. Speculations are fine and natural, but at least don't hold them as facts just because you want to support your opinion.
Thank you thank you thank you

People seem to think they kept every aspect of the leaked script but totally brush off the fact that they took a whole freaking year for script rewrites.

Obviously the pacing and order has been changed as well as character and many plot points.

People For get what its like top write a script some people say they do, But from those working on movies have said scripts can have several drafts up to 15 different drafts Each of which could be drastically different too pretty much the same, Not to mention they added two Major players onto the screen writing team since the script leaked, Kevin's Involvement, and Eric as a screen writer.

I mean Heck Check Out Fox's Script rewrite He took the Blue door and made it Entertaining and much better and he did that in what? a Month? Imagine a Years worth of time from a fan with input from the Co creator.

[UGHShellshocked]

I admire him for standing up for his work and I like the fact that hes been very positive about it but maybe he likes it because hes really the main character of the movie.

[Glados]

Thank you thank you thank you

People seem to think they kept every aspect of the leaked script but totally brush off the fact that they took a whole freaking year for script rewrites.

Obviously the pacing and order has been changed as well as character and many plot points.

People For get what its like top write a script some people say they do, But from those working on movies have said scripts can have several drafts up to 15 different drafts Each of which could be drastically different too pretty much the same, Not to mention they added two Major players onto the screen writing team since the script leaked, Kevin's Involvement, and Eric as a screen writer.

I mean Heck Check Out Fox's Script rewrite He took the Blue door and made it Entertaining and much better and he did that in what? a Month? Imagine a Years worth of time from a fan with input from the Co creator.
Pretty much this. In the beginning of this thread we have quotes from two people involved with the film saying that the horrid Blue Door script is NOT what we will be getting in this movie, yet we still have comments that pull that script up again and again! At most they kept some re-written action sequences that they saw had potential, but the main parts of that script has clearly been scrapped completely.

On a side note, I've seen several instances where people try to compare the B.D. script to what we've seen/know so far about the actual movie and they pull up a scene where Mikey is being experimented on. Where is that from? I can ONLY remember reading about it in the BD script, am I missing something or is it just another case speculation that has been said so many times people think it's fact?

[Candy Kappa]

On a side note, I've seen several instances where people try to compare the B.D. script to what we've seen/know so far about the actual movie and they pull up a scene where Mikey is being experimented on. Where is that from? I can ONLY remember reading about it in the BD script, am I missing something or is it just another case speculation that has been said so many times people think it's fact?

My guess is that they theorize it from the Lego set featuring the Turtle Van with Raph and Vernin rescuing Mikey from the Foot, Mikey is strapped into a "evil scientist lab table"

[Glados]

Aha! Well, at least it's from somewhere then. But I wouldn't trust it to actually be a scene from the movie, if that Lego ad is all people are basing this on.

[slingtheory]

The script mightve been reworked quite a bit but based on context clues I'm still seeing a good bit of blue door influence in there which makes me wonder exactly how different it really is. This wouldn't be the first time a script has been leaked and the people behind the scenes claimed it to be far removed from the final film only for it to turn out to be the obvious foundation. Just look at the dragonball evolution script for example

[Glados]

Hm, well I think you will see more influence of the Blue Door script if you want to see it and is searching for it. For me personally I'm not seeing much of it it, just a few tidbits. I see far more stuff that's vastly different.

I have no knowledge of the DBZ film, as I'm not interested in the franchise (Apart from Nostalgia Critics review of it, which was enough for me to see how hilariously bad it was despite knowing nothing of the source material. Seriously, that just seemed to me like a generally retardedly cheesy film with phenomenally crappy special effects) But were there a whole leaked script involved there too?

[SwiftNinjaFox]

I think it's more that the script was completely thrown out yet there are obviously a LOT of elements and influence from it that we've already seen. Some influences would be likely expected, but I think some people are surprised that they're obvious with the little we've seen.

Same/Similar
-Turtles are taller than we're used to and "built like a linebacker"
-Snow escape and big rig scenes are directly from it
-Military unit as the enemy (note, the description in Blue Door says "We'll call them Foot" but nothing ever refers to them as such in dialogue. Remains to be see how they address it here).
-Raph/Leo exchange in the Visual Guide is about the same as Blue Door script
-The glimpse we've seen of the sewer invasion is reminiscent of Blue Door, but how many different ways of discovering the lair can you have? ;)
-The turtles are captured - This is slightly altered for only 3 to be captured. In the Blue Door it starts with all four of them capture and escaping. Instead we have three captured and rescued. They could still take DNA from Mike as some interpret from the Blue Door.

There is a lot change, though, obviously.
-Casey Jones is absent, replaced with Vernon though the focus seems to shift to April as the lead instead of Casey
-April is a reporter, not just an intern, but still seems possible that she's be somewhat overlooked or taken serious
-Colonel Schrader is gone (we'll see if there's any influences left of him)
-Turtles as an alien race from Dimension X is gone (or so help them if it's not.... If it's not...we march on Bay's home! Grab your torch and pitchfork) ;)
-Apparently Bebop and Rocksteady (at least for now)

Added, NOT in Blue Door
Eric Sachs did not exist as a character. He obviously replaces Col. Schrader as the primary antagonist.
Trailer indicates TCRI and the mutagen, developed by Sachs, as creating the turtles (arguably the mutagen origin was in Blue Door, but was revealed to be a lie)

Still up in the air
-Krang being present



Someone had the script scenes overlayed on the Lego sets and it was near word-for-word accurate.

[Candy Kappa]

Aha! Well, at least it's from somewhere then. But I wouldn't trust it to actually be a scene from the movie, if that Lego ad is all people are basing this on.

Yeah, considering how un-canon several of the Iron Man 3 sets are, nothing can be taken for granted until the movie is out. Not even sets that seems canon, like the Lair invasion and the truck chase set, since they do seem to correlate with the trailers and picture leaked. There is a lair invasion and a car case involving a truck. But the details in the Lego sets can be severely altered.

like in the IM3 sets. The set where the helicopter blows up Stark's penthouse, in the Lego set, Mandarin is in the helicopter. And there is a Final Showdown set where iron Man dukes out with The Mandarin who uses a tank-like vehicle. :lol:

[SwiftNinjaFox]

It's also possible the Lego sets were created from the Blue Door script before rewrites had been completed for that matter.

Hell, the toy fair signs and such had "NINJA TURTLES" without the small "teenage mutant" tacked on top of it because that change was made after promo material was printed for the shows.

[Glados]

That's a thing to take in to consideration, they might not have a lot of plot to base the sets on, so they used the BD script cause that's what was there at the time. Or it could just be more coincidences, either way I wouldn't pull much "facts" from the Lego photo's.

[Glados]

like in the IM3 sets. The set where the helicopter blows up Stark's penthouse, in the Lego set, Mandarin is in the helicopter. And there is a Final Showdown set where iron Man dukes out with The Mandarin who uses a tank-like vehicle. :lol:

I haven't seen IM3 (gosh, I'm boring), but I'm guessing none of that was actually in the movie?

[electric_sheep]

I think it's more that the script was completely thrown out yet there are obviously a LOT of elements and influence from it that we've already seen. Some influences would be likely expected, but I think some people are surprised that they're obvious with the little we've seen.

Same/Similar
-Turtles are taller than we're used to and "built like a linebacker"
-Snow escape and big rig scenes are directly from it
-Military unit as the enemy (note, the description in Blue Door says "We'll call them Foot" but nothing ever refers to them as such in dialogue. Remains to be see how they address it here).
-Raph/Leo exchange in the Visual Guide is about the same as Blue Door script
-The glimpse we've seen of the sewer invasion is reminiscent of Blue Door, but how many different ways of discovering the lair can you have? ;)
-The turtles are captured - This is slightly altered for only 3 to be captured. In the Blue Door it starts with all four of them capture and escaping. Instead we have three captured and rescued. They could still take DNA from Mike as some interpret from the Blue Door.


April moving (From the set photos which might mean that she's still an intern.
Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script
Mikey experiments
Substation 16

[SwiftNinjaFox]

April moving (From the set photos which might mean that she's still an intern.
Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script
Mikey experiments
Substation 16

Considering she's doing actual news stories, even if they are fluff pieces, I think that puts her at least higher than just "the coffee girl" so I'm giving leniency in that. That's why I said I think she's a reporter, but low level and not taken seriously with the fluff stories she's assigned.

I don't think Vernon will take the same function since Casey was essentially the main protagonist. I think April will more take Casey's place and Vernon will take April's from that script.

Mikey didn't really get experimented on. They literally just took a sample of his blood and then said to kill the turtles.

I've not seen anything to support Substation 16 being in the film, but I don't really care. Substation 16 is basically just "Shredder's installation #2819" as far as that goes.

[samxsteal]

I think it's more that the script was completely thrown out yet there are obviously a LOT of elements and influence from it that we've already seen. Some influences would be likely expected, but I think some people are surprised that they're obvious with the little we've seen.

Same/Similar
-Turtles are taller than we're used to and "built like a linebacker"
-Snow escape and big rig scenes are directly from it
-Military unit as the enemy (note, the description in Blue Door says "We'll call them Foot" but nothing ever refers to them as such in dialogue. Remains to be see how they address it here).
-Raph/Leo exchange in the Visual Guide is about the same as Blue Door script
-The glimpse we've seen of the sewer invasion is reminiscent of Blue Door, but how many different ways of discovering the lair can you have? ;)
-The turtles are captured - This is slightly altered for only 3 to be captured. In the Blue Door it starts with all four of them capture and escaping. Instead we have three captured and rescued. They could still take DNA from Mike as some interpret from the Blue Door.

There is a lot change, though, obviously.
-Casey Jones is absent, replaced with Vernon though the focus seems to shift to April as the lead instead of Casey
-April is a reporter, not just an intern, but still seems possible that she's be somewhat overlooked or taken serious
-Colonel Schrader is gone (we'll see if there's any influences left of him)
-Turtles as an alien race from Dimension X is gone (or so help them if it's not.... If it's not...we march on Bay's home! Grab your torch and pitchfork) ;)
-Apparently Bebop and Rocksteady (at least for now)

Added, NOT in Blue Door
Eric Sachs did not exist as a character. He obviously replaces Col. Schrader as the primary antagonist.
Trailer indicates TCRI and the mutagen, developed by Sachs, as creating the turtles (arguably the mutagen origin was in Blue Door, but was revealed to be a lie)
Karai
Japanese Shredder Dojo
Possible Seppuku
Foot in traditional wear
Splinter starting as Lab rat


Still up in the air
-Krang being present



Someone had the script scenes overlayed on the Lego sets and it was near word-for-word accurate.Emboldened added

It's also possible the Lego sets were created from the Blue Door script before rewrites had been completed for that matter.

Hell, the toy fair signs and such had "NINJA TURTLES" without the small "teenage mutant" tacked on top of it because that change was made after promo material was printed for the shows.
The toys are being marketed as NINJA TURTLES with out the Teenaged mutant

April moving (From the set photos which might mean that she's still an intern.
Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script
Mikey experiments
Substation 16
She wasn't moving she was fire that's a stereo typical box used for remover personal items from an office as seen is every your fired scene

I seriously doubt he will serve the same function as Casey
And there is no evidence of Substation 16

[slingtheory]

Hm, well I think you will see more influence of the Blue Door script if you want to see it and is searching for it. For me personally I'm not seeing much of it it, just a few tidbits. I see far more stuff that's vastly different.

I have no knowledge of the DBZ film, as I'm not interested in the franchise (Apart from Nostalgia Critics review of it, which was enough for me to see how hilariously bad it was despite knowing nothing of the source material. Seriously, that just seemed to me like a generally retardedly cheesy film with phenomenally crappy special effects) But were there a whole leaked script involved there too? yep and it kind of played out the same way this is. The script leaked, most people hated it and the studio claimed it as any earlier draft they were no loger working from. Then the movie came out it was plain to see it was built on the same structure and had the same beats. All they mainly did was subtract some characters and scenes and steamline the story. Im not saying that this is going to play out the same way but Ive seen enough to make me wonder and I didn't have to look too hard.

[chrisdude]

Aha! Well, at least it's from somewhere then. But I wouldn't trust it to actually be a scene from the movie, if that Lego ad is all people are basing this on.It could fit fine. Raph is in that set, too. Could be from when they break the other turtles out. It sounds like they, more or less, wanted to keep that whole breakout sequence.
http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/79115_Turtle_Van_Takedown

They've kept a lot from the Blue Door script. But none of what I've seen retained is what really offended me about the script. The action sequences were the best thing about BD, in my opinion, so I'll be happy if they keep all of them.

[Glados]

I doubt Vernon will "serve the same function as Casey", the fact that he's another male character doesn't make him the replacement for Casey. And Mikey being experimented on... just read the previous comments.

Anyway, it still remains to be seen how many scenes might be kept in edited form from the BD script, but I'm absolutely 100% certain the horrible last act is gone for good. As long as that is gone I can totally handle some scenarios being some what similar from previous section of the script.

[Glados]

Emboldened added She wasn't moving she was fire that's a stereo typical box used for remover personal items from an office as seen is every your fired scene

I seriously doubt he will serve the same function as Casey
And there is no evidence of Substation 16

Indeed. I'm so tired of seeing those parts being presented as facts, it's all speculation, nothing more.

[sethmartin]

I think it's more that the script was completely thrown out yet there are obviously a LOT of elements and influence from it that we've already seen. Some influences would be likely expected, but I think some people are surprised that they're obvious with the little we've seen.

Same/Similar
-Turtles are taller than we're used to and "built like a linebacker"
-Snow escape and big rig scenes are directly from it
-Military unit as the enemy (note, the description in Blue Door says "We'll call them Foot" but nothing ever refers to them as such in dialogue. Remains to be see how they address it here).
-Raph/Leo exchange in the Visual Guide is about the same as Blue Door script
-The glimpse we've seen of the sewer invasion is reminiscent of Blue Door, but how many different ways of discovering the lair can you have? ;)
-The turtles are captured - This is slightly altered for only 3 to be captured. In the Blue Door it starts with all four of them capture and escaping. Instead we have three captured and rescued. They could still take DNA from Mike as some interpret from the Blue Door.

There is a lot change, though, obviously.
-Casey Jones is absent, replaced with Vernon though the focus seems to shift to April as the lead instead of Casey
-April is a reporter, not just an intern, but still seems possible that she's be somewhat overlooked or taken serious
-Colonel Schrader is gone (we'll see if there's any influences left of him)
-Turtles as an alien race from Dimension X is gone (or so help them if it's not.... If it's not...we march on Bay's home! Grab your torch and pitchfork) ;)
-Apparently Bebop and Rocksteady (at least for now)

Added, NOT in Blue Door
Eric Sachs did not exist as a character. He obviously replaces Col. Schrader as the primary antagonist.
Trailer indicates TCRI and the mutagen, developed by Sachs, as creating the turtles (arguably the mutagen origin was in Blue Door, but was revealed to be a lie)

Still up in the air
-Krang being present



Someone had the script scenes overlayed on the Lego sets and it was near word-for-word accurate.

April moving (From the set photos which might mean that she's still an intern.
Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script
Mikey experiments
Substation 16

I would not say that there are a LOT of similarities and most of these similarities to Blue Door are also similar to other incarnations.

Turtles were taller and more bulked up in the 2003 series. Which could be something that carried over to this project before the Blue Door script was written.

Snow escape- There were many battles in the snow in the original Mirage comic books. Could be carried over from Blue Door but also could just be something different in a similar location. It IS New York after all.

Military Unit as the Foot- In the official Paramount description, they refer to the unit as The Foot. Military unit could be from Blue Door but could also just be there because they think a military unit is more intimidating than a clan of ninja thieves.

Raph Leo exchange in the leaked script page sounds similar to TMNT (2007) or the Leo/Raph argument in the first turtles movie. Point is Leo and Raph are usually at each others throats so I wouldn't say this was lifted from Blue Door.

Sewer Invasion- Another thing that has existed in many incarnations.

Turtles captured- to say it's "slightly altered" just to try and make it seem like it was lifted from Blue Door is a little much. Every turtles movie has had a capture/ rescue. Splinter was captured in the first movie, Raph captured in the second, Michaelangelo captured in the third, Leo captured in TMNT.

Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script- So he will serve basically the same function as Casey in the first movie, Keno in the second movie, Wytt in the third movie, or Casey in TMNT.

Mikey experiments- Can someone give me a source please to prove that this is in the new film. Isn't it a toy or something?

So far Substation 16 is the only thing that doesn't exist in any other incarnation other than Blue Door. Everything else, could be seen as a Blue Door inclusion but could also be based on another Turtles incarnation. Some of these comparisons are just silly and sound like they are coming from people who are trying way too hard to compare it to Blue Door. You can also say "Hey the turtles fight crime and live in a sewer! That's just like Blue Door!" Point is, for every little thing that may be similar to Blue Door, there are just as many if not more proven plot points/ characters/ events etc. that are not included in that script.

Not saying I'm right. Not defending the movie. Just saying that when I look at everything that has been confirmed, I see way more of OT, 2k3, and IDW than Blue Door. In fact, I don't really see Blue Door at all.

[electric_sheep]

Indeed. I'm so tired of seeing those parts being presented as facts, it's all speculation, nothing more.

Any proof that she's fired and not moving? no? well shut up then...

They took Casey out and put Vernon in, he's just there to tag along same as Casey in BD.

And we see an uderground lab in a couple of shots in the trailer which is probably substation 16.

[samxsteal]

yep and it kind of played out the same way this is. The script leaked, most people hated it and the studio claimed it as any earlier draft they were no loger working from. Then the movie came out it was plain to see it was built on the same structure and had the same beats. All they mainly did was subtract some characters and scenes and steamline the story. Im not saying that this is going to play out the same way but Ive seen enough to make me wonder and I didn't have to look too hard.

On thing to remember as well and idk if it was that big of an impact but There budget was less then half of this movie, there were so much more red flag for fans for that movie then there are for this movie. so much more It be like if this movie lost Michael bay and got a worse producer, lost Johnathan and got a worst director, and have its budget slashed in half, Plus the The original creator started working on the movie in the beginning but was pushed out by fox so his input was ignored. Kevin hasn't been ignored and you can tell that from everyone involved keeps saying he was a huge influencer in this production.

[Glados]

Any proof that she's fired and not moving? no? well shut up then...

What... I was not being rude with you, why are you being rude in return? But if that's your genuine opinion, then we should both zip it, cause neither one of us know the actual context of that set photo!

[samxsteal]

Any proof that she's fired and not moving? no? well shut up then...

They took Casey out and put Vernon in, he's just there to tag along same as Casey in BD.

And we see an uderground lab in a couple of shots in the trailer which is probably substation 16.

When people movie they dont use those boxes and they dont carry just one box she got fired shes not moving sorry


no they didn't

or stockgen or TCRI which seem more likely because baxter the ooze and TCRI right on the canister located in a very similar location as those of other shots from the trailer.

[sethmartin]

Any proof that she's fired and not moving? no? well shut up then...

They took Casey out and put Vernon in, he's just there to tag along same as Casey in BD.

And we see an uderground lab in a couple of shots in the trailer which is probably substation 16.

So she lives in the Channel 6 news building and everything she owns fits in an office copy paper box? The set photos clearly show her carrying this box out of the Channel 6 news building.

Every movie has had April and one other male character tagging along. Casey, Keno, Wytt, Casey.

Just about every version of the turtles has included a TCRI (TGRI) lab. How do you know this lab is underground? And it clearly says TCRI on the canister which is directly lifted from the Mirage comics.

If you want to believe this is nothing but Blue Door, that's fine but all of these things are a stretch.

[chrisdude]

She's standing outside of Channel 6 with her cameraman and one box.

Prolly fired. Or, she could've quit. Like, sick of being disrespected with stupid assignments. Then she witnesses the turtles throw down in the subway, gets the worlds best scoop, and starts her own news website.

[sethmartin]

She's standing outside of Channel 6 with her cameraman and one box.

Prolly fired. Or, she could've quit. Like, sick of being disrespected with stupid assignments. Then she witnesses the turtles throw down in the subway, gets the worlds best scoop, and starts her own news website.

Yep. Fired or quit, she is clearly leaving the Channel 6 building with your standard "I just cleaned out my desk" box. Nobody would look at THIS PICTURE

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/megan-fox-tmnt-filming-boxes-cgi__oPt.jpg

and think that she's moving unless they were desperately trying to compare it to something that happened in Blue Door.

In Blue Door, where is the Shredder? Where is Eric Sachs? Where does it say Splinter started out as a lab rat? When does Raph put on a disguise and get into a small car? Where is Channel 6? Where is TCRI? Where does it mention anything about April's father? When does April ride a bicycle? When does she jump on a trampoline? Where is April's roommate? Where is the Turtle Van? When do the Turtles meet April on a rooftop and she faints?

Several CONFIRMED things that exist in this film that are NOT in Blue Door. Any similar elements of that script could have been elements that were part of the project since it's inception and existed in every version of the script and not just the one that happened to leak. As Evan Daugherty stated, there are many scripts written where writers go in different directions and try new things just to see if they will work. So just because certain scenes or elements could be similar Does Not mean they were lifted from that Blue Door script. I think some people just WANT it to be Blue Door so they can whine about how horrible the movie is but there is much more confirmed evidence that this movie is it's own thing and not a Blue Door with Vernon.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Emboldened added
Karai
Japanese Shredder Dojo
Possible Seppuku
Foot in traditional wear
Splinter starting as Lab rat

Forgot to list Karai
Splinter as a lab rat - Forgot this one as well.

However:
What dojo? We've not seen that.
Haven't seen seppuku yet, nor anything to indicate it
Foot in traditional wear has not been shown anywhere either

I know they've been said to be in there, or at least they were FILMED. But these have to remain speculation until we see them in use. They could wind up on the editing room floor. :(

The toys are being marketed as NINJA TURTLES with out the Teenaged mutant

What makes you say that? It was clearly stated the name was changed after things were printed. When the final product is on shelves, they wouldn't use a name different than the movie, I don't think.

Snow escape- There were many battles in the snow in the original Mirage comic books. Could be carried over from Blue Door but also could just be something different in a similar location. It IS New York after all.

....the scene from the trailer is exactly as described in the script. It IS taken from that script. Add on a big rig battle and you've got the other portion of that scene. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. It was one of the more badass action scenes in Blue Door.

Military Unit as the Foot- In the official Paramount description, they refer to the unit as The Foot. Military unit could be from Blue Door but could also just be there because they think a military unit is more intimidating than a clan of ninja thieves.
Pretty thin to say the Blue Door was thrown out, forgotten, then the same decision was made. Hopefully they have an explanation for the name, though. Still think it would make more sense for them to be a private security para-military group than actual military. If they work for Sachs, that will make more sense too, so that's kind of what I'm expecting.

Raph Leo exchange in the leaked script page sounds similar to TMNT (2007) or the Leo/Raph argument in the first turtles movie. Point is Leo and Raph are usually at each others throats so I wouldn't say this was lifted from Blue Door.

It's more the specific dialogue that reminded me of it. Potentially coincidental, but the specific "Splinter chose me" line rang out to me.

Sewer Invasion- Another thing that has existed in many incarnations.
Like I said, how many different ways could you really do this? I'd say it's pulled from Blue Door, but wouldn't exactly fault them for it.

Turtles captured- to say it's "slightly altered" just to try and make it seem like it was lifted from Blue Door is a little much. Every turtles movie has had a capture/ rescue. Splinter was captured in the first movie, Raph captured in the second, Michaelangelo captured in the third, Leo captured in TMNT.

Okay, the turtles being captured and taken to a military installation in a mountainous region where they escape incorporating a big rig and having an escape sequence sliding down a snowy mountainside isn't from the script where that exact thing happened at all. ;)

Vernon will basicly serve the same funtion as Casey in the leaked script- So he will serve basically the same function as Casey in the first movie, Keno in the second movie, Wytt in the third movie, or Casey in TMNT.

I'm disagreeing with this one as well. I think Vernon will have a more support character role like April in Blue Door. Seriously, Blue Door really sidelined her. :/

Mikey experiments- Can someone give me a source please to prove that this is in the new film. Isn't it a toy or something?

I'd rather we quash this one entirely. Mikey wasn't experimented on in Blue Door either.

You can also say "Hey the turtles fight crime and live in a sewer! That's just like Blue Door!" Point is, for every little thing that may be similar to Blue Door, there are just as many if not more proven plot points/ characters/ events etc. that are not included in that script.

......they didn't fight crime in Blue Door. At all. T_T

Yep. Fired or quit, she is clearly leaving the Channel 6 building with your standard "I just cleaned out my desk" box.

A-GREED. That's a fired/quit box.

In Blue Door, where is the Shredder? Where is Eric Sachs? Where does it say Splinter started out as a lab rat? When does Raph put on a disguise and get into a small car? Where is Channel 6? Where is TCRI? Where does it mention anything about April's father? When does April ride a bicycle? When does she jump on a trampoline? Where is April's roommate? Where is the Turtle Van? When do the Turtles meet April on a rooftop and she faints?

Shredder - Schrader...he had the claws and spikes. Just...as his body. -_-

The other stuff I should add the my "Different stuff" category. I forgot about the roommate too.

Also different, April's father isn't MENTIONED, he's SEEN in Blue Door. And he's an orthopedist, not a scientist. ;)



Like I said, i don't think the Blue Door is being used in its entirety, but I don't think it was scrapped and thrown out to start over either. I think they used a lot of elements from it and the fact that those are seen in the trailer is putting up red flags for some people. I obviously didn't think the entire script was bad, or I wouldn't have done my own rewrite of it. :P

[samxsteal]

Forgot to list Karai
Splinter as a lab rat - Forgot this one as well.

However:
What dojo? We've not seen that.
Haven't seen seppuku yet, nor anything to indicate it
Foot in traditional wear has not been shown anywhere either

I know they've been said to be in there, or at least they were FILMED. But these have to remain speculation until we see them in use. They could wind up on the editing room floor. :( I think the fact that they even have a set called shredders Dojo, Referenced by several actors mean we will see at least one scene of it the seppuku might be a little dark and cut but i can see them finding and easy way to keep it with out scrapping it fully.

The traditiona wear was from a Actor playing the foot Discribing multiple costumes he had Military Black ops, Japanese Traditional, as well as another but i cant remember what else,

THough its clear Even from the Foot we have seen, there are multiple variations Kabuki mask/ skimask/ all black mask/ and possible clear mask
Knuckle wraps, none knuckle wraps, ankle wraps, nonw ankle wrap, Full black, tan black.

Weapon dart guns, rifles, noose poll, stun batons, nunchaku, swords,



What makes you say that? It was clearly stated the name was changed after things were printed. When the final product is on shelves, they wouldn't use a name different than the movie, I don't think.
The legos Title on the box Are NINJA TURTLES not teenage mutant ninja turtles, Same goes for the figures. Chances are Paramount wanted the NINJA TURTLES title no MBAY, so that kids could identify easier, so they kept th NINJA TURTLES title on figures and toys for kid, and Changed the Movie title to teenaged mutant NINJA TURTLES. People keep calling it sloppy i think it was planned from the get go Use a short more easily marketable title for kids(who just call them NINJA TURTLES anyway) and just marketing the movie as full Title.




DID QUOTE THE REST but i wanted to Point out the foot in the military Clothes do have a Japanese Kanji on their Uniform that is the symbol for FOOT similar to the head bands in the OG movies.

[Warhorse]

Yep. Fired or quit, she is clearly leaving the Channel 6 building with your standard "I just cleaned out my desk" box. Nobody would look at THIS PICTURE

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/megan-fox-tmnt-filming-boxes-cgi__oPt.jpg

and think that she's moving unless they were desperately trying to compare it to something that happened in Blue Door.

In Blue Door, where is the Shredder? Where is Eric Sachs? Where does it say Splinter started out as a lab rat? When does Raph put on a disguise and get into a small car? Where is Channel 6? Where is TCRI? Where does it mention anything about April's father? When does April ride a bicycle? When does she jump on a trampoline? Where is April's roommate? Where is the Turtle Van? When do the Turtles meet April on a rooftop and she faints?

Several CONFIRMED things that exist in this film that are NOT in Blue Door. Any similar elements of that script could have been elements that were part of the project since it's inception and existed in every version of the script and not just the one that happened to leak. As Evan Daugherty stated, there are many scripts written where writers go in different directions and try new things just to see if they will work. So just because certain scenes or elements could be similar Does Not mean they were lifted from that Blue Door script. I think some people just WANT it to be Blue Door so they can whine about how horrible the movie is but there is much more confirmed evidence that this movie is it's own thing and not a Blue Door with Vernon.

I once had to leave the office with a box like that. It's because I found some kittens in the back alley and was trying to sneak them through before the boss found out and called ACC.

[electric_sheep]

I think the fact that they even have a set called shredders Dojo, Referenced by several actors mean we will see at least one scene of it the seppuku might be a little dark and cut but i can see them finding and easy way to keep it with out scrapping it fully.

The traditiona wear was from a Actor playing the foot Discribing multiple costumes he had Military Black ops, Japanese Traditional, as well as another but i cant remember what else,

THough its clear Even from the Foot we have seen, there are multiple variations Kabuki mask/ skimask/ all black mask/ and possible clear mask
Knuckle wraps, none knuckle wraps, ankle wraps, nonw ankle wrap, Full black, tan black.

Weapon dart guns, rifles, noose poll, stun batons, nunchaku, swords,



Does your hand hurt from all that reaching?

[SwiftNinjaFox]

THough its clear Even from the Foot we have seen, there are multiple variations Kabuki mask/ skimask/ all black mask/ and possible clear mask Knuckle wraps, none knuckle wraps, ankle wraps, nonw ankle wrap, Full black, tan black.

I've only seen one mask, where are the multiple variations? I know there's the weird clear on on the toy vs black on all set photos. Arguing the wraps make for ninja gear is a bit of a stretch to me, though. A black ops guy with a machine gun is not a ninja because his hands are wrapped.

As for weapons, I've not seen any of them with nunchaku or swords particularly. Set photos or toy sets? I just haven't seen 'em, not saying they don't exist.

The legos Title on the box Are NINJA TURTLES not teenage mutant ninja turtles, Same goes for the figures. Chances are Paramount wanted the NINJA TURTLES title no MBAY, so that kids could identify easier, so they kept th NINJA TURTLES title on figures and toys for kid, and Changed the Movie title to teenaged mutant NINJA TURTLES. People keep calling it sloppy i think it was planned from the get go Use a short more easily marketable title for kids(who just call them NINJA TURTLES anyway) and just marketing the movie as full Title.

Again, it was stated at the toy fair that the name was changed after things were printed. That seems like a real stretch to argue that they intentionally planned on marketing it as Ninja Turtles, then decided to change the name for the movie.

The movie was NINJA TURTLES. That was their plan. It was also around the time BAY said they were aliens. Then the Internet exploded, the Blue Door script leaked and it exploded again, then suddenly they backpeddled and said that script was old, Bay changed his statements, and they added Teenage Mutant to the title. And combined with production/release delays it seems pretty obvious some changes in response to the negative reaction is quite likely.

I don't think there's any substantial reasoning to support they planned on marketing the movie as one name and the toys as another name.

the foot in the military Clothes do have a Japanese Kanji on their Uniform that is the symbol for FOOT similar to the head bands in the OG movies.

Can you point out where (chest/armband/etc)? I didn't spot that either and now I wanna see. :)

I once had to leave the office with a box like that. It's because I found some kittens in the back alley and was trying to sneak them through before the boss found out and called ACC.

Commendable, sir!

Conclusion: April is now saving kittens. If anyone now speaks ill of April in this movie, they logically hate kittens. Get out, kitten-haters! :D

[samxsteal]

Does your hand hurt from all that reaching?

how is that reaching there have been several references to shredders dojo from multiple people.

There are obvious differences between member of this "military" foot
none of this is reaching, its called observation

[Glados]

Does your hand hurt from all that reaching?

Ehem, don't throw stones in a glass house and all that. And please stop trying to create a bad mood, we're just having a discussion tossing speculation back and forth and I for one am starting to enjoy it, let's keep doing that and not throw insults... please.

[electric_sheep]

Ehem, don't throw stones in a glass house and all that. And please stop trying to create a bad mood, we're just having a discussion tossing speculation back and forth and I for one am starting to enjoy it, let's keep doing that and not throw insults... please.

I am not trying anything, i am discusing, not insulting anyone, yet...
how is that reaching there have been several references to shredders dojo from multiple people.

There are obvious differences between member of this "military" foot
none of this is reaching, its called observation

Doesen't observation mean that you saw something? We saw nothing of those thing you mention, no swords, no nunchaku...

[Glados]

Yep. Fired or quit, she is clearly leaving the Channel 6 building with your standard "I just cleaned out my desk" box. Nobody would look at THIS PICTURE

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/megan-fox-tmnt-filming-boxes-cgi__oPt.jpg

Oh, I hadn't seen that specific picture before! Yup, definitively moving office stuff, not moving from her home. Also a lot of differences you listed there, I was thinking to write a little list my self, but now I don't have to ;)

[Puddinpop]

I enjoy the comics & movies & the 80's cartoon & the 2003 cartoon when all 4 are different from each other)' or 'you're just trolling' or have 'blind hate' even though you have stated your reasons (even if you don't Agree with them...and they don't have that BS superiority?)
Yep.. your not a friggin troll yourself.. your such a beacon of civility dude.. yup..
But when I can't discuss anything without someone out of the blue attacking me or saying how 'wrong I am', then YES it gets pretty frustrating. And Instead, I get Told what to do by other people. Especially being told by people who just joined the forum a few months ago.

I've had one person tell me that I should 'support the film because their brother died in Afghanistan, and since he can't see it I should be proud of the privilege of seeing it.' I've had another guy threaten me by saying 'I should see this certain thing...Or Else'. And I've got more...


.....You know.. Trolling is one thing, but using my dead brother out of context multiple times to prove your pathetic points? How many times are you going to bring him up?

" disregard your opinions on a movie by going 'why are you complaining about a kid's film? Don't you know people are dying in Afghanistan and yet you can't stop harping on an upcoming kid's film'... and then bring up their brother dying over there...

How many times are you going to misconstrued my words and use my little brother " a dead U.S marine that was a bigger TMNT fan than I ever was " for your own little " OMG I get attacked bc I have opinions " rants? How many times do I have to bite my lip.. and report your ass? You have to be the single most pathetic human being I have even known to exist. I NEVER told you to support this film bc my brother was killed. Are you mental?
You continue to TROLL in the worst way KNOWNG that I am on here, TRYING to get a rise out of me by using a dead family member bc you know how incredibly hurtful it is. I pray that you never have to deal with losing a brother or a sister or any family member. But you do this on purpose all the time. You with your " ummm not trying to start a fight or anything but " and then continue on trolling. I just love this ridiculously fake insincere act of civility that you've been trying to pull off.. This whole being offensive while at the same time claiming to be a victim.. If people only knew.. Like your "civil" RamboRaph4life fugly goomba turtles Youtube video with you smashing a tape into your face and telling the " stoked crowd" to perform.... ahh you know what.. never mind..your not worth it. You know exactly what it is that you KEEP doing and it is absolutely disgusting behavior.

[Ville Leskinen]

But you know what they say:












DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! :ohwell:

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Feels like we're getting dangerously into locked thread territory, guys.

If people are that irritating, put them on ignore. If you personally feel someone's a troll, you should know the Internet rule by now.

Don't feed the trolls.


Woo-sah. Remember your pressure points!

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

.....You know.. Trolling is one thing, but using my dead brother out of context multiple times to prove your pathetic points? How many times are you going to bring him up?

You know that facebook saves the conversations, right? And that I have the whole, entire conversation that you left me on facebook? Where you messaged me out of the blue on facebook...then you asked me my opinion on the film. And then I gave you the reasons why I don't look forward to the film, which you had asked me (again, out of the blue on facebook) in the first place...

And then out of the blue you mention your dead brother as to 'why I should enjoy the film'? And then when I ask what does that have to do with the conversation at hand that you started and engaged with me, where you were asking me what issues I had about the upcoming FILM itself, then you got mad and blocked me and called me all sorts of names...

So, do you really want me to post the entire conversation (or even use screen shots for it) that facebook saved, which would prove this without a doubt and 100%? Because I gladly would if you REALLY want to go there...so that is totally up to you, Puddinpop. So knock it off. I'm asking nicely.

Either drop it and move on like I will, or I can (and will) easily prove it...because making me out to be some sadistic monster is NOT my idea of a Good time and NOT something I take lightly.

[samxsteal]

I've only seen one mask, where are the multiple variations? I know there's the weird clear on on the toy vs black on all set photos. Arguing the wraps make for ninja gear is a bit of a stretch to me, though. A black ops guy with a machine gun is not a ninja because his hands are wrapped.There are two Obvious Differences in the trailer The SKi mask From the Brother spot and Lego sets Vs the kubuki masks brown face mask seen from the majority of the foot and also from lego sets, Clear mask is fromthe figure IDK if this is an option but seeing as the figure looks next to nothing fro0m what we have seen its either a terrible figure or another option of what the foot will wear.

But people need to know you dont as a military person Wrap your knuckle at all it restrict movement and handling of a fire arm. You wrap like that only if you expect to go hand to hand. they way they are wrapped is an influence to Kick boxing and muay thai, military dont do that.

As for weapons, I've not seen any of them with nunchaku or swords particularly. Set photos or toy sets? I just haven't seen 'em, not saying they don't exist.There are several shots in the trailer in which im confident what they are wielding.

Donnies it fighting two foot soldiers with swords,

Foot going through sewer has two people with Nunchaku, There are people in the set photo with stun batons, throwing knives, and staffs other then the noose rods.



Again, it was stated at the toy fair that the name was changed after things were printed. That seems like a real stretch to argue that they intentionally planned on marketing it as Ninja Turtles, then decided to change the name for the movie.This was never said by anyone official It was only assumed by individuals and is now considered fact.

Now what People have said is the movie is Titled TMNT, but that the products are marketed as NINJA TURTLES. Bigger proof is that the movie legos seen in story still have NINJA TURTLES as its title.

Pluss MBAY saying it was Paramount's idea to shorten the title Remember Paramount had the BD script made.

The movie was NINJA TURTLES. That was their plan. It was also around the time BAY said they were aliens. Then the Internet exploded, the Blue Door script leaked and it exploded again, then suddenly they backpeddled and said that script was old, Bay changed his statements, and they added Teenage Mutant to the title. And combined with production/release delays it seems pretty obvious some changes in response to the negative reaction is quite likely.
There was no Producted release delays, Now im sure changes were made to quell fan reaction But to say that the NINJA TURTLES title on figure was a "woopsy" moment seems false. the products weren't delayed they are going to release when many movie toys release

I don't think there's any substantial reasoning to support they planned on marketing the movie as one name and the toys as another name.With paramount wanting to have a shorter title to apeal to younger audience, with the fact that the title has been that was since filming started toys and marketing would not have started much earlier then that so they new they wanted the title changed to TMNT but the title used for all younger marketing is still NINJA TURTLE that seem plenty of evidence



Can you point out where (chest/armband/etc)? I didn't spot that either and now I wanna see. :) if i can find the photos?

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/2wd0SmvW3OY/maxresdefault.jpg

Notice on this right arm shoulder there red Japanese character, There was a site the posted the OG movie and this movie side by side proving it was "foot" but i can find the site

[samxsteal]

Doesen't observation mean that you saw something? We saw nothing of those thing you mention, no swords, no nunchaku...
I have posted proof count less times.

[electric_sheep]

I have posted proof count less times.

http://s24.postimg.org/sjt1s3ftw/image.jpg
Looks like a regular stun batoon to me, would weapon be something that you hide, is that a spoiler?

Edit: Wow i didn't notice mikey's head in the background...

[SwiftNinjaFox]

<photo snip?

Notice on this right arm shoulder there red Japanese character, There was a site the posted the OG movie and this movie side by side proving it was "foot" but i can find the site

Nice, I hadn't noticed that on the shoulder.

[Cure]

So what about the opposite? When some of us do just say that we dislike it, and why we dislike it, give reasons as to why we dislike it or challenge what has been said by the team behind the production, reply to the topic at hand, and more.

Then you're not one of the ones I'm speaking about, are you? Why are you so defensive?

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Then you're not one of the ones I'm speaking about, are you? Why are you so defensive?

Considering just today and just now in this very thread someone (not you) is making me out to be some sadistic monster, it's kind of hard not to be defensive around here on this forum. Especially to give some perspective from the 'leery' crowd of folks.

[sethmartin]

So, do you really want me to post the entire conversation (or even use screen shots for it) that facebook saved, which would prove this without a doubt and 100%? .

I don't. I want both of you to shut up and stop bickering. Who cares who said what to who on Facebook. Back on topic please.

[Puddinpop]

You know that facebook saves the conversations, right? And that I have the whole, entire conversation that you left me on facebook? Where you messaged me out of the blue on facebook...then you asked me my opinion on the film. And then I gave you the reasons why I don't look forward to the film, which you had asked me (again, out of the blue on facebook) in the first place...

And then out of the blue you mention your dead brother as to 'why I should enjoy the film'? And then when I ask what does that have to do with the conversation at hand that you started and engaged with me, where you were asking me what issues I had about the upcoming FILM itself, then you got mad and blocked me and called me all sorts of names...

So, do you really want me to post the entire conversation (or even use screen shots for it) that facebook saved, which would prove this without a doubt and 100%? Because I gladly would if you REALLY want to go there...so that is totally up to you, Puddinpop. So knock it off. I'm asking nicely.

Either drop it and move on like I will, or I can (and will) easily prove it...because making me out to be some sadistic monster is NOT my idea of a Good time and NOT something I take lightly.

Wow lol.. I guess you continually bringing up my dead brother to troll is something I should take lightly? Are you that dense?
I also know that People can fabricate any message and change whatever they want. Does that change the fact that YOU keep bringing up my dead brother to make your pathetic points? YOUR TELLING MEE TO MOVE ON?? lol. IM TELLING YOU!! STOP USING MY DEAD ****ING BROTHER TO MAKE YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENTS!! YOU ARE DOING IT ON PURPOSE!!! NOO your not a monster at all!! You just make videos like this
/wc3xxLYedVY Yep.. your Jesus of Nazareth himself. You obviously have to much time on your hands. Someone that spends all of his time complaining about a movie that he CLAIMS he will never see in the first place. So.. YOU knock it the hell off!! If I am guilty of ANYTHING its giving you the rise that you obviously wanted. THIS is why you continue to bring up my brother over and over. Bc your a god damn troll.

[Jester]

Both of you knock it off. Leave Facebook drama on Facebook.

And, to be fair, technically you kinda used your brothers death to prove your point first...

[Puddinpop]

Both of you knock it off. Leave Facebook drama on Facebook.

And, to be fair, technically you kinda used your brothers death to prove your point first...

O.. So bc I told this kid that people have real things to wine about other then movies everyday ON FACEBOOK MONTHS AGO, I guess that makes it ok for him to continue throwing it around this forum to obviously get a reaction out of me. HOW is that not trolling? How many times do I have to report it? I kept my trap shut MANY times.. I've had it. Enough already. I didn't use anything! I was talking perspective, which he obviously lacks. I've reported it multiple times.. yet here he is again with the same " some kids dead brother " post. It is wrong and it needs to stop. I'm done now.

[Jester]

O.. So bc I told this kid that people have real things to wine about other then movies everyday ON FACEBOOK MONTHS AGO, I guess that makes it ok for him to continue throwing it around this forum to obviously get a reaction out of me. HOW is that not trolling? How many times do I have to report it? I kept my trap shut MANY times.. I've had it. Enough already. I didn't use anything! I was talking perspective, which he obviously lacks. I've reported it multiple times.. yet here he is again with the same " some kids dead brother " post. It is wrong and it needs to stop. I'm done now.
I've seen RamboRaph mention it once. Once is not a pattern.

[Puddinpop]

I've seen RamboRaph mention it once. Once is not a pattern.

I'm sorry.. but you're wrong. Are you really defending this? He is obviously trolling. As if once is not enough.. here are two different quotes at two separate times from him.

"I've had one person tell me that I should 'support the film because their brother died in Afghanistan, and since he can't see it I should be proud of the privilege of seeing it.' I've had another guy threaten me by saying 'I should see this certain thing...Or Else'. And I've got more...

" disregard your opinions on a movie by going 'why are you complaining about a kid's film? Don't you know people are dying in Afghanistan and yet you can't stop harping on an upcoming kid's film'... and then bring up their brother dying over there..."

Forum rules: This includes trolling (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments).

He is doing it on purpose and I've kept my mouth shut up until today. He is on my ignore list now. That doesn't mean I don't here about it. It is wrong.

[Candy Kappa]

Well... This turned awkward.

[Puddinpop]

Well... This turned awkward.

I apologize for derailing the thread. I take full responsibility for it. This was " a private facebook conversation " that keeps being brought up HERE multiple times. I hope now it will actually stop. Again.. I apologize.

[NoName999]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/636/113/d8c.gif

[AlphaAF]

You obviously have to much time on your hands.
THIS ...

Someone that spends all of his time complaining about a movie that he CLAIMS he will never see in the first place.
Right? LMAO

That's the comedy of it all. All the incessant complainers will go see this movie. And you know he'll still go see in theaters, too.

Probably will claim up and down they didn't, or won't though.

So.. YOU knock it the hell off!! If I am guilty of ANYTHING its giving you the rise that you obviously wanted. THIS is why you continue to bring up my brother over and over. Bc your a god damn troll.
I can't believe this guy is so low in character to bring up your deceased brother. That isn't trolling, that is being a flat out bad human being. I mean over a ninja turtles movie? Who on earth does that, really.

Guy needs to get a life, a g/f, a wife, some real world friends. SOMETHING. Someone to love him, give him hugs, get laid so he don't have to RAGE out about films. Beating VHS tapes on camera like a complete nut bag.

:lol:

[Sumac]

I find its interesting, that many people who are wehemently protecting this movie have joined this forum quite recently. Not only that, but also the way they talk with others is similar to each other. It's like they have come from the same fold or received similar instructions. Not that I seriously believe, that those people were hired by Platinum Dunes or somebody from the crew, but those things are quite strange.

If they were hired by PD, then their doing a lousy job, because their rude behavior don't endear anyone to the movie. More like opposite - it make people even more irritated with it. PD shouldn't pay them. Or should hire a new bunch of "defenders", because this one is pretty disfunctional.

[electric_sheep]

I find its interesting, that many people who are wehemently protecting this movie have joined this forum quite recently. Not only that, but also the way they talk with others is similar to each other. It's like they have come from the same fold or received similar instructions. Not that I seriously believe, that those people were hired by Platinum Dunes or somebody from the crew, but those things are quite strange.

If they were hired by PD, then their doing a lousy job, because their rude behavior don't endear anyone to the movie. More like opposite - it make people even more irritated with it. PD shouldn't pay them. Or should hire a new bunch of "defenders", because this one is pretty disfunctional.

Wouldn't suprise me, some people are down right obsesive and will defend even the tiniest little detail just like they are told to...

[Jester]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/636/113/d8c.gif

Yeah...you had the right idea.

"Say good night Gracie..."