OT Animation Quality

[Powder]

Just watched an episode of the OT, Burnes Blues, and it had me wondering...

Was the OT considered well-done by animation standards of its era? How does it compare to other action cartoons of the late 80's/early 90's? Watching it now, it seems at times to be a little choppy or stiff, there's a lot of film grain, and it goes without saying that the errors are infamous. :trazz: Are some of these symptoms of their transition to digital media, or having been on old/possibly roughed up film? As a kid it seemed perfect, but hindsight's 20/20, as they say.

[CyberCubed]

Just look at youtube clips of various other 80's shows like He-man, 80's Spiderman, Superfriends, etc.

I think TMNT has the best animation of any of the superhero cartoons of that era. Likewise the later animation style that became standard around mid-Season 4-Season 7 (the good standard animation) holds up to this day.

[electric_sheep]

I didn't grow up when the original cartoon came out so my perspective is a little skewed but even as a kid i noticed how the caroon never looked as good as opening animation. When the theme starts and that gets you ramped up, **** yeah, this is gonna be awesome and then the cartoon starts and they just stand there barley moving but most of the animation of that time was similar.
Batman TAS revolutionesed the caroon animation...

[RaphAndDonnie]

I'd say it's about on par with other shows of it's time. A lot of cartoons were outsourced to other countries to be animated so errors,different voices and etcetera are to be expected but I think it gives it a bit of charm and personality.

[CyberCubed]

I didn't grow up when the original cartoon came out so my perspective is a little skewed but even as a kid i noticed how the caroon never looked as good as opening animation. When the theme starts and that gets you ramped up, **** yeah, this is gonna be awesome and then the cartoon starts and they just stand there barley moving but most of the animation of that time was similar.
Batman TAS revolutionesed the caroon animation...

B:TAS came out in 1992....6 years after the original cartoon began. Of course its going to look better.

[MrPliggins]

It really depends on the episode. Some were animated well, like season 1, Turtles on Trial, Name that Toon. Others were really crappily animated like Michelangelo Toys around and Turtles of the Jungle.
I think in general it was about on par with the rest of the shows at the time.
It might look choppy because of the fps (frames per second). I'm not sure what the fps was for the show at the time, but it was probably less than the 2k12 show, which is probably 29.97.

[electric_sheep]

B:TAS came out in 1992....6 years after the original cartoon began. Of course its going to look better.

Yeah but what i am trying to say that's when animation oficialy became good almost everything before that doesen't hold up...

[CyberCubed]

Yeah but what i am trying to say that's when animation oficialy became good almost everything before that doesen't hold up...

B:TAS animation by today's standards don't hold up in most episodes either.

[oldmanwinters]

To borrow a golfing term, Fred Wolf TMNT was at least on par (with a decent number of birdies and a few eagles) comparable programs up until the establishment of the Disney Afternoon & Warner Bros. supported FOX Kids block of the early 90s. The CBS run probably gave the show a more consistent and "on model" look, but by that time its comedic slap stick action compared poorly with shows like Batman, X-Men, etc.

B:TAS animation by today's standards don't hold up in most episodes either.

There are a few stinkers in the show, but I'd number those in the minority. I think the 100% cel-animated nature of the show still holds up today. Most action cartoons today have a much more consistent look to their animation, but few have as many moments of pure cel-animation grandeur that BTAS provides in episodes like On Leather Wings, Two-Face Part 1, Heart of Steel Part 2, Robin's Reckoning Parts 1-2, Mudslide, Harley's Holiday, and A Bullet for Bullock.

[CyberCubed]

To borrow a golfing term, Fred Wolf TMNT was at least on par (with a decent number of birdies and a few eagles) comparable programs up until the establishment of the Disney Afternoon & Warner Bros. supported FOX Kids block of the early 90s. The CBS run probably gave the show a more consistent and "on model" look, but by that time its comedic slap stick action compared poorly with shows like Batman, X-Men, etc.

I think the OT has better animation than the Fox Spiderman/X-men cartoons by a longshot.

There are a few stinkers in the show, but I'd number those in the minority. I think the 100% cel-animated nature of the show still holds up today. Most action cartoons today have a much more consistent look to their animation, but few have as many moments of pure cel-animation grandeur that BTAS provides in episodes like On Leather Wings, Two-Face Part 1, Heart of Steel Part 2, Robin's Reckoning Parts 1-2, Mudslide, Harley's Holiday, and A Bullet for Bullock.

Very true, and those various episodes were timeless.

But I'm mainly comparing B:TAS to the later DC shows like Young Justice...the difference in animation quality is pretty big. The fight scenes are also much faster and more fluid.

I never realized how slow the fighting was in B:TAS. Batman would literally stand there for 10 seconds waiting for a guy to punch him, and then he'd throw him over his shoulder. Batman was a lousy fighter in B:TAS, thank god he improved by the time Justice League started. :lol:

[oldmanwinters]

I think the OT has better animation than the Fox Spiderman/X-men cartoons by a longshot.

I'd agree. However, because the nature of the TMNT plots were played mostly for laughs and featured little combat, most kids of the time viewed Spider-Man as the more exciting cartoon. Most of the Marvel toons featured very choppy animation and there were rarely any quiet moments since it seems like they felt compelled to have at least one voice actor speaking at all times. I really like how TMNT could use some quiet moments to set the mood with the beautiful hand painted backgrounds and theme music. That's something that BTAS also did better than just about any other show.

[CyberCubed]

Am I the only one who thinks the OT still holds up animation wise ignoring the errors or coloring mistakes?

I mean when I watch it, it doesn't seem like a show from nearly 30 years ago. Its amazing that a series from nearly 3 decades ago doesn't feel all old or outdated.

Meanwhile I find stuff like Superfriends or the older Marvel shows to be a chore on my eyes, not to mention the writing.

[Powder]

I think it depends on what you consider 'holding up'. I mean, there is no cartoon from the last 15 years that looks like that. They're all a whole lot cleaner, more fluid, brighter & more solid colors, etc. I think the writing is still great, the show on a whole is just as enjoyable, entertaining & funny as ever, for the most part, but from a technical standpoint it's quite inferior. It's definitely outdated on the animation front.

[Coola Yagami]

Am I the only one who thinks the OT still holds up animation wise ignoring the errors or coloring mistakes?

I mean when I watch it, it doesn't seem like a show from nearly 30 years ago. Its amazing that a series from nearly 3 decades ago doesn't feel all old or outdated.

Meanwhile I find stuff like Superfriends or the older Marvel shows to be a chore on my eyes, not to mention the writing.

I at least say the Spider-Man 90's cartoon had a more on-model look and cleaner smoother and faster animation. And actual fighting. Somewhat. I do admit it was full a lot of choppy parts and lazy re-used animation.... but still, the overall look is better.

The 80's OT does date itself by the inconsistent character models that change per episode, and the lack of action for a supposed action show. A bigger animation budget would have done wonders for this show. Imagine for example... the fight scene between Leo and Lotus, with actual intense high-speed action and animation.

[Refractive Reflections]

I don't know if anyone considered this, but the animation schedule of the OT especially during the 3rd (47 episodes), 4th (39 + 13 [the Vacation in Europe episodes made in 1990]), and 5th (22 episodes) seasons when the errors are most prevalent. Considering how most television seasons are 22-26 episodes a year, it makes sense there would be animation errors and inconsistencies when the production staff had to chuck out so many of them out as they followed the business advice of, "You have to strike the iron when it is hot"; and of course those were during the years of Turtlemania.

But if this is not considered, the animation quality for the OT is good (not awesome, but good) even at its worst moments in comparison to other 80s cartoons of the time.

[ssjup81]

I didn't grow up when the original cartoon came out so my perspective is a little skewed but even as a kid i noticed how the caroon never looked as good as opening animation. When the theme starts and that gets you ramped up, **** yeah, this is gonna be awesome and then the cartoon starts and they just stand there barley moving but most of the animation of that time was similar.
Batman TAS revolutionesed the caroon animation...That was common with most shows back in the day. Look at the Thundercats intro for example. That has to be one of the most awesome intros and sequences ever....but the animation in the show was slightly different and stuff.

Growing up back then, seems a lot of the shows had great animation for the intros (that's where all the money went) and the shows themselves had the so-so animation.

[CyberCubed]

An intro only takes a minute of animation to produce compared to a 22 minute episode, of course they can make a minute and a half intro look really good.

[ssjup81]

An intro only takes a minute of animation to produce compared to a 22 minute episode, of course they can make a minute and a half intro look really good.Yeah, that's true.

[oldmanwinters]

Am I the only one who thinks the OT still holds up animation wise ignoring the errors or coloring mistakes?


Heck, I thought I'd just agreed with you in all my posts.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I never realized how slow the fighting was in B:TAS. Batman would literally stand there for 10 seconds waiting for a guy to punch him, and then he'd throw him over his shoulder. Batman was a lousy fighter in B:TAS, thank god he improved by the time Justice League started. :lol:

i think that's because B:TAS wasn't really intended to be much of an action cartoon. It's main focus was story, not action.

[MrPliggins]

I bet the original TMNT intro took longer to animate than some of the episodes themselves. It still holds up in my opinion as one of the best representations of TMNT in animation.

[billbot85]

I think the OT's animation pretty much had the same quality as all of the other animated shows that were on at the time. I felt that there were some shows out at the time that weren't as good. Sometimes, I think the quality of the OT slipped, such as with continuity errors, coloring errors, and some scenes that ended up as still frames instead of being animated. But considering how many episodes Fred Wolf was churning out by the time they got to season 3, I think it's only normal that there would be some mistakes here and there.

I know this has already been mentioned, but James Rolfe does a good job covering some of these mistakes in this video here:

http://cinemassacre.com/2011/05/31/tmnt-tuesday-top-20-turtle-flubs/

[pannoni1]

The first season IMO was really good for 1987 standards thanks to being animated by Toei, a well-respected animation studio even to this day. The backgrounds were well-detailed, the action was quite fluid, and despite a number of errors thanks to being at the beginning of a series, really is above average for a TV show for its time.

The second season was more or less average, and it has some repeated backgrounds in addition to some frequent errors.

Seasons 3-6 aren't as bad as you might think despite the higher episode output, because they were animated at several different studios to compensate for the additional episodes. But one studio, MW Dublin (you can tell by that logo in the end credits) as has been discussed had some weird off-model animations to them and seemed less fluid than the other studios.

Seasons 7 and beyond (though 9 was a bit weaker) have perhaps the best animation of the series and holds up quite well, and it gave the later seasons its edge.

Overall, the OT is a product of its time in terms of animation styles, being in the outsourced Asia era of animation, but prior to computer animation being applied. It has its ups and downs, but is a bit better than average compared to its peers. The 4kids and current Nick series arguably have their ups and downs, but have a consistent style even if they are products of their era (computerized 2D and 3D) in terms of animation styles.

[ProactiveMan]

The OT character models are quite round and fiddly, and made of slightly vague shapes, which I think is hard to animate consistently. By the end of the original run, the turtles were more angular and tightly drawn, and the animation is more consistent and smooth.

BTAS had the same issue, which is a shame, because I much prefer the more organic designs to the angular style, but then I don't have to draw them a thousand times a minute.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

Just look at youtube clips of various other 80's shows like He-man, 80's Spiderman, Superfriends, etc.

I think TMNT has the best animation of any of the superhero cartoons of that era. Likewise the later animation style that became standard around mid-Season 4-Season 7 (the good standard animation) holds up to this day.

I agree with this, although the intro to Thundercats animation quality is amazing!

[pferreira]

I have mixed feelings about the animation through Season 3. I kind of wish the colouring wasn't so faded, the animation so haphazard. Whenever I think of Season 3 or Season 4 animation I remember episodes like The Turtle Terminator. It's difficult to hold up the cartoon to people that dismiss the OT series, having made their minds up by looking at those episodes.

[Pterobat]

Most action cartoons have had dynamite opening themes/pilots and then later episodes vary wildly in quality. I don't hold that against the OT, because it's the nature of the beast: nobody could hire the best studio all the time.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Was the OT considered well-done by animation standards of its era? How does it compare to other action cartoons of the late 80's/early 90's?
Well, put it this way: The animation was certainly better than 'The Transformers'

[CyberCubed]

I have mixed feelings about the animation through Season 3. I kind of wish the colouring wasn't so faded, the animation so haphazard. Whenever I think of Season 3 or Season 4 animation I remember episodes like The Turtle Terminator. It's difficult to hold up the cartoon to people that dismiss the OT series, having made their minds up by looking at those episodes.

The Turtle terminator was probably the worst animated episode of the entire series.

Season 3 and 4 had a lot of fantastic animated episodes, but there were some duds scattered around.

[Cryomancer]

The animation in the first season owns a lot. Sometimes I wish the whole show could have looked and felt like that first few episodes, because damn they were good.

[Prowler]

Some of the episodes in seasons 3 and 4 were quite poorly animated. Plus, as others have mentioned, irregular character models and several animation errors per episode. But overall, the animation quality is pretty decent compared to the other cartoon series of its time.

But what stands out the most after all these years is the quality of the voice acting. The cast had such great chemistry.

[pferreira]

So I'd like to know what fans think are best animated episodes of Season 3 and which are the worst. I haven't watched the show in a while. I know that fans hold up Turtles on Trial as having good animation but am interested to which others?

[Raang]

Basically, most if not all episodes done by the team which did "Turtles on trial" are the best such as "Zach The Fifth Turtle", "The Ninja Sword of Nowhere"...

Worst ones are by Akom such as "The Turtle Terminator", "The Grybyx"...

[pferreira]

I wonder if it would be possible for the online community to help create a list of every episode that was animated by an animation company. It's been done for Batman: The Animated Series so can it be done for this show?

[Metropoliskid41]

This is a tough one, it really depends on specific episodes and seasons. Which has me wondering how much of some murky animation is a result of Lionsgate's quality versus the episodes themselves. There are back to back episodes where one looks pretty solid or great and the next is the worst animation I've seen in a cartoon post the 1960's Marvel Cartoons. Did the studio really have that inconsistent of production? Or is the collection quality of the dvd just crap?

With regards to some other cartoon comparisons I'm going to have to disagree with some of those. While He-Man & the MOTU used a lot of reoccuring stock shots or poses, I think animation wise that series is pretty revolutionary. It to this day is one of the few action based cartoons that features almost 3-D animation. Instead of the characters just moving across the screen in a 2-D planes, there are a lot of times where the characters are coming at you in an angle. It's some top notch stuff. Granted they used these same shots over and over again, but that doesn't take away from the animation and the "camera angles" used being totally different than anything else on the air.

I think generally the animation and transitions of the original Transformers cartoon were pretty great, but holy crap was that series, especially season 3 post the movie, riddled with animation errors and coloring snafus. Compared to that, TMNT is way ahead of the curve. Granted, TMNT also had a leg up, they were just launching at Transformers was coming to a close. These types of cartoons first popped up in the 80's, so you have to think there was a little learning curve that the shows in the later 80's benefitted from compared to the shows launched earlier in the decade. Compared to some 90's shows, like the X-MEN cartoon, I think TMNT was a little ahead of the curve. X-MEN had its moments of shoddy animation, the Iron Man and 1994/95 Fantastic Four Cartoons even more so. TMNT had nearly 200 episodes, way more than other cartoons like Fantastic Four, X-MEN, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Silver Surfer, and Hulk that were on at the same time. So you'd expect TMNT to have a little wider range in quality. Generally I'd say that TMNT was better animated than those cartoons. The worst animated TMNT episodes may have been poorer animation quality than the worst of the other shows mentioned, but I think the average animation, and certainly the best animated episodes, top the averages and bests of the other series. I don't feel like a comparison to Batman The Animated Series is fair, totally different beasts in my opinion, apples to oranges comparions in story telling style, color, and animation pacing.

[neatoman]

I feel the animation is bad but I understand that at the time a lot of shows tried to do animation as quickly and cheaply as possible, so it's no exception but...
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/004.jpg
Yeah, the problems don't go away just because you know why they're there...

[TheBlueTurtle1]

I remember a lot of colour issues in cartoons around the 80s, but I must admit TMNT was one of the worst for this, so much so I noticed it a lot at a young age.

For the most part the animation quality was not that bad. Season 1 and the intro were amazing!