Do you like the way Donnie acts around April this series?

[Leofan26]

Rumors had it that Donnie had a crush on April in the 4Kids series, if that's the case than I thought the way did things with his crush was handled well, I couldn't even tell :-?

This series I feel they over due it, I like his character best when his crush on April isn't involved at all, I think they do things better with him in episodes like those. I know some girls in fandom's love shippings and all but that's what the power of imagination is for, I noticed a lot of fans shipped this pairing or Leo x Karai pairing back in the 4Kids series too without it being so forced. If we have a topic on this already forgive me, I wanted to bring up again for season two is almost over.

I was hoping Donnie would have moved on by now, doesn't look like that's happened though yet :(

How do you feel on this?

[ssjup81]

Well, I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. My feelings are a bit mixed. I think it is kind of cute that he has a crush on her, but at the same time I like the fact that he seems to value his friendship with her more than his actual crush on...unless it's my misinterpretation. I got that impression after that Fungus Humungous episode and Mutagen Man Unleashed (there he was telling Timothy how he missed April's friendship with him and the others).

That aside, imo anyway, I feel that it's eased up a a lot compared to season 1...which is why I don't "hate" it.

Hm, I also like how goofy he acts, sometimes, like when he's tongue-tied or embarrasses himself...something I'm sure pretty much everyone can relate to at some point...acting shy or unintentionally embarrassing yourself around a crush.

I guess I'm indifferent to it.

[pennydreadful]

There are things I enjoy about it (ie, different facet of Donnie that we haven't seen before, and who here doesn't relate to acting like a doofus over a crush) and things that bother me about it (stalkery Nice Guy stuff) - so I guess I'd have to say conflicted.

[Shark_Blade]

Love it. :tlove:

Sometimes indifferent cause I'm used to it, that's how he responds to April. I accept it, no problem. :tcool:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Rumors had it that Donnie had a crush on April in the 4Kids series, if that's the case than I thought the way did things with his crush was handled well, I couldn't even tell


Because they didn't. They just had a brother/sister relationship. It's just people who defend the Don+April relationship of the current series that are saying that.

But anyway, like I said before, I have no problem with Don having a crush on April. However the way he acts towards her can be highly annoying. It really gets in the way of him staying focused while something happens to April. It's understandable since he cares for her but he needs to make sure he gets his priorities straight. If Splinter made him leader, it would be a huge mistake on his part since Don believed that it was more important to save April than the world. This is probably the only thing that I have against this version of Don. Other than that, he's just fine as a character.

[victory_angel]

Actually there were hints if a crush. Mostly it was just mutual appreciation so nothing really comes of it.

Donnie: Guys, could you be quiet? April and I are trying to concentrate.

Mikey: (Teasingly) Ooo it's April and I, is it?


As for the naysayers about Donnie's relationship with April, I personally don't find it creepy. I mean yeah I understand where people would see it as creepy, but I'm able to forgive Donnie's behavior simply because April is the first girl he has ever encountered.

Donatello is a mutant turtle who has grown up for 15 years with his father and his brothers. The closest thing to a female he has ever seen are more then likely female characters he's seen on TV. So his first encounter with a girl is going to be awkward.

But he also pays attention to her reactions as well, and adjust his behavior so hes not comic across as too pushy or needy. And I do agree with ssjup81, as much as he loves her and wishes she would love him in return. He rather be a friend to her and let her decide if she wishes to be with him or not.

The one down side is that Donnie is easily distracted by April, particularly when she is in mortal danger. And that distraction has caused him to do uncharacteristic things as abandoning his brothers to rescue her, and putting himself and his brothers at risk in his desires to rescue her. Raph had to go rescue April at one point just so Donnie would be able to focus on his task with the reassurance that someone was coming to her aid.

This is all stuff Leo has to report to Splinter like it or not. So if they do have an episode where the Turtle's are advanced to the rank of Chunin, that maybe Donnie isn't allowed to advance because of the infractions.

[Netkeeper]

Actually there were hints if a crush. Mostly it was just mutual appreciation so nothing really comes of it.

Donnie: Guys, could you be quiet? April and I are trying to concentrate.

Mikey: (Teasingly) Ooo it's April and I, is it?
That's Mikey interpreting it that way and giving his brother a hard time. :ohwell:

[Technogeek29]

That's Mikey interpreting it that way and giving his brother a hard time. :ohwell:

In another scene April his Donnie and says she could kiss him.heresponds with a very hopeful "really"?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Which episode was this?

[Netkeeper]

In another scene April his Donnie and says she could kiss him.heresponds with a very hopeful "really"?
Which episode was this?
One of the Worlds Collide episodes I think? I came up on it during my rewatch.

Honestly, I can't say it wasn't intentional ship tease [as much as Peter Laird doesn't want it to be, the writers snuck some in there anyway LMAO] but for what it's worth, when I first saw that scene, I legitimately interpreted it as Donnie being happy that she cared about him enough to do that. A platonic thing. It's never anything I found to be a big deal as far as scenes go, anyway, and it's pretty harmless.

[Zulithe]

I like it. It adds a new layer that's not something we've had before in TMNT.

I'm just wondering what the arc here is going to be. Will April eventually fall in love with Don? Will Don find someone else to fall in love with that will actually return his feelings? Do they have a plan for all of this?

[Netkeeper]

I like it. It adds a new layer that's not something we've had before in TMNT.

I'm just wondering what the arc here is going to be. Will April eventually fall in love with Don? Will Don find someone else to fall in love with that will actually return his feelings? Do they have a plan for all of this?
Donnie will find an abandoned puppy and decide to take her in, then he'll [platonically] fall in love with her instead and decide that he wants to do nothing but raise puppies for the rest of his life and become an actual decent character.

[AT-Man]

Will April eventually fall in love with Don? Will Don find someone else to fall in love with that will actually return his feelings?

These will always happen at the same time, no exceptions.

[BubblyShell22]

I love it as it gives a new facet to Donnie that we haven't seen before. Sure, he had a subtle crush on her in 2K3, but not to this extent. It's mostly played for laughs with how embarrassed and awkward he gets around her at times, so I'm okay with it. Yeah, he can be creepy at times with how he shadows her, but I chalk it up to the fact that he doesn't know how to act around her regarding the crush.

[Creativecreature31]

I don't like the way Donnie NOR Casey act around April.


I'm all for April ditching them both and running away with Karai! :P

[Netkeeper]

I don't like the way Donnie NOR Casey act around April.


I'm all for April ditching them both and running away with Karai! :P
You. Sit down and think about what you did.

Because it's fabulous and I love it.

[plastroncafe]

I don't like the way Donnie NOR Casey act around April.


I'm all for April ditching them both and running away with Karai! :P

And then, as they're running, Irma pulls up with a convertible, and the three of them drive off into the sunset to fight crime...or commit crime.

I'm not really picky.

[victory_angel]

One of the Worlds Collide episodes I think? I came up on it during my rewatch.

Honestly, I can't say it wasn't intentional ship tease [as much as Peter Laird doesn't want it to be, the writers snuck some in there anyway LMAO] but for what it's worth, when I first saw that scene, I legitimately interpreted it as Donnie being happy that she cared about him enough to do that. A platonic thing. It's never anything I found to be a big deal as far as scenes go, anyway, and it's pretty harmless.

There is also this little moment:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mejl4dOPwC1qaa1jw.jpg

[Zulithe]

I also think it was smart for Nick to add this new element to the show because you can tell a big difference in the amount of female fans TMNT has this time around.

TMNT has always had some great female fans, obviously even some of the more well-known and loyal fans in the community are female and date back to the very early days of TMNT. But I feel like this iteration of TMNT has drawn in more female fans than the past, and I think the whole Don/April thing has been a factor in that.

[JTH]

This seems a little late to make this question.

Donnie has toned it down quite a bit since the start of Season 2.

If you asked this question after say Fungus Humungous, then I would understand.

The real question should be "Do you like the way April acts around Donnie this series?"

[NitpickingMask]

The real question should be "Do you like the way April acts around Donnie this series?"

Please don't tell me you are going to "Its fault of her for leading him on" direction <_< Since that is type of bullcrap that exists too much in society.

[plastroncafe]

The real question should be "Do you like the way April acts around Donnie this series?"

Yes. Yes I do. Because she's acting like a friend.
Donnie, is acting like a creeper.

[JTH]

Please don't tell me you are going to "Its fault of her for leading him on" direction <_< Since that is type of bullcrap that exists too much in society.
Umm no. :ohwell:

Cause I seem to be one of very few that exist in our society that approves of what's happening...

I'm simply pointing out the timing, because the Donnie/April stuff in the show is a fraction of what it was say 5 months ago.

[NitpickingMask]

Ah, ok, good, phew... I was scared there for a second ^_^;

[Netkeeper]

There is also this little moment:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mejl4dOPwC1qaa1jw.jpg
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

[Konchadunga]

Please don't tell me you are going to "Its fault of her for leading him on" direction <_< Since that is type of bullcrap that exists too much in society.

It's kind of hard to tell what her motive is at this point, and what I think jth was going for is that April doesn't really seem to have much of an opinion about this. She seems more like an object for Don and Casey to flex their own egos over, while the writers don't do much to let her express her own feelings. Kissing Don, I'd say, is either leading him on or an expression of genuine affection. It might be possible in some cases to kiss someone and mean it completely platonicly, but when you remember April is very much aware of his crush, via such things as Metalhead, it seems like there's no way she would expect him to take it as platonic. Unless the writers are also now suggesting April is stupid. Who knows.

[Sighphi]

Not really. Don should be smarter than this, he should be the turtle that is aware of their situation more than the rest. This would fall better in any of the other turtles. But Leo has Karai, Mike has mental problems, and i guess Raph is too rough so... one can see why he was chosen.

[Xiewin]

Not really. Don should be smarter than this, he should be the turtle that is aware of their situation more than the rest. This would fall better in any of the other turtles. But Leo has Karai, Mike has mental problems, and i guess Raph is too rough so... one can see why he was chosen.

okay I gotta admit that part made me laugh a bit

[IndigoErth]

Not really. Don should be smarter than this, he should be the turtle that is aware of their situation more than the rest.
Eh I guess love is blind and makes people do stupid, irrational stuff to try to get the attention of someone, even particularly smart ones.

Though she has no responsibility to do so, April should prob just be gently up front with him at some point about this whole thing since the infatuation seems to be clouding his judgement.

[ssjup81]

Not really. Don should be smarter than this, he should be the turtle that is aware of their situation more than the rest. This would fall better in any of the other turtles. But Leo has Karai, Mike has mental problems, and i guess Raph is too rough so... one can see why he was chosen.Intelligence and emotion are two different things. You can't help how you feel as emotions aren't always logical.

Mike btw may have his issues but they aren't mental.

[Shark_Blade]

Not really. Don should be smarter than this, he should be the turtle that is aware of their situation more than the rest. This would fall better in any of the other turtles. But Leo has Karai, Mike has mental problems, and i guess Raph is too rough so... one can see why he was chosen.

Mike has WHAT? :tlol:

And Raph already has Casey, so he's settled. :P

[Refractive Reflections]

As I said before, if it was innocent flirting it would be one thing, but Donnie is reaching stalkerish/creepy depths by devising every such plan to be with her and using possessive statements like "my April" or "my princess". It may be cute in the cartoon world, but I can assure you that in the real world it would be very creepy. This type of stalkerish behavior wouldn't be tolerated if Donnie looked like Slash. That's why I'm stating unless Casey are Donnie are delusional, Nick April must be somehow inadvertently leading them on (though I see absolutely no sign of it) for those two to think they have a chance with her for such a long time. It may be a cartoon, but this crush triangle is showing its age by lasting for nearly 2 seasons so far.

Isn't it sad though that the only character depth, or at least the most talked about, around these Turtles seem to revolve around shipping? **Sigh** I mean already a portion of the fandom wants to ship Irma. This is typically why I don't like fervent shipping because typically when it's used, it's overdone, it seems to be the only noticeable feature of the character(s) (Turtles). In which apparently, the most prominent thing that concerns these Turtles (you know, despite worrying about being publicly exposed/tarnished, avoiding in getting killed, their unique existence in their world, and the strain upon their brotherhood relationships) is who's gonna love them and who are they going to love. ...Uh huh :roll:

It may add a "new layer" to these characters, but more often than not, it unfortunately becomes the most prominent layer to these characters and that's not why I tune in to watch TMNT. I'm not against shipping or romance since I watch and enjoy shows like Nashville and Scandal that have romantic themes carefully weaved in within their shows (that have female-driven main characters and female creators by the way), but when I watch TMNT I'm not expecting to tune into a shipping-fest of Tales of the Young & Scaly.

In my opinion, the action/adventure of the show and the relationships of family and friends should mostly be in the forefront of the show before the romance themes. But that's just me...

[pennydreadful]

I'm all for April ditching them both and running away with Karai! :P

And then, as they're running, Irma pulls up with a convertible, and the three of them drive off into the sunset to fight crime...or commit crime.

I'm not really picky.

^^ These.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/Ryyo1Iqk1mmSQ/giphy.gif

Besides, it's obvious that there's some major foe-yay going on between Karai and April. ;)

[Coola Yagami]

As I said before, if it was innocent flirting it would be one thing, but Donnie is reaching stalkerish/creepy depths by devising every such plan to be with her and using possessive statements like "my April" or "my princess". It may be cute in the cartoon world, but I can assure you that in the real world it would be very creepy. This type of stalkerish behavior wouldn't be tolerated if Donnie looked like Slash. That's why I'm stating unless Casey are Donnie are delusional, Nick April must be somehow inadvertently leading them on (though I see absolutely no sign of it) for those two to think they have a chance with her for such a long time. It may be a cartoon, but this crush triangle is showing its age by lasting for nearly 2 seasons so far.

Isn't it sad though that the only character depth, or at least the most talked about, around these Turtles seem to revolve around shipping? **Sigh** I mean already a portion of the fandom wants to ship Irma. This is typically why I don't like fervent shipping because typically when it's used, it's overdone, it seems to be the only noticeable feature of the character(s) (Turtles). In which apparently, the most prominent thing that concerns these Turtles (you know, despite worrying about being publicly exposed/tarnished, avoiding in getting killed, their unique existence in their world, and the strain upon their brotherhood relationships) is who's gonna love them and who are they going to love. ...Uh huh :roll:

It may add a "new layer" to these characters, but more often than not, it unfortunately becomes the most prominent layer to these characters and that's not why I tune in to watch TMNT. I'm not against shipping or romance since I watch and enjoy shows like Nashville and Scandal that have romantic themes carefully weaved in within their shows (that have female-driven main characters and female creators by the way), but when I watch TMNT I'm not expecting to tune into a shipping-fest of Tales of the Young & Scaly.

In my opinion, the action/adventure of the show and the relationships of family and friends should mostly be in the forefront of the show before the romance themes. But that's just me...

Kinda consider romance as part of the relationships between family and friends. Still I agree. Action, adventure, mutants and ninja stuff first. Family and romance stuff in the background.

[BubblyShell22]

But the romance is in the background for the most part and mostly comes into play when April's around. When she's not around, that stuff isn't even mentioned that much and it's all focused on the action.

[JTH]

People will only complain when they feel it's done wrong, whether they're right or not is moot.

But Operation: Breakout proved that this crush can produce great stories, if it's written the right way.

Hell, that episode completely focused on it, and I remember a lot of people who didn't even like the Donnie/April stuff in Season 1 say they thought that episode was very exciting and excellent.

[Refractive Reflections]

Kinda consider romance as part of the relationships between family and friends. Still I agree. Action, adventure, mutants and ninja stuff first. Family and romance stuff in the background.

I guess I should elaborate on the romance part. It's just frustrating that when immediately a new female shows up on screen (whether it's TMNT or not), immediately it becomes shipping fodder possibilities rather than an interest on the female's backstory and life direction before doing so. In TMNT, I'm more interested in seeing the strain and stretching of the father-son, brother-brother, friend-friend relationships through the extraordinary trials they are enduring rather than portraying these Turtles as having some form of romantic desperation (by overdoing the shipping aspect) on the top of their minds most of the time (i.e. Donnie's stalker-crush on April). Those family/friend bonding moments seem heavily obscured by the whole Donnie-April-Casey crush triangle. (On the other end, if I was only concerned about the action/adventure and fighting, at the detriment of not expanding the family/friend relationships of the superheroes, then I'm sure there would be an overabundance of other superheroes to gravitate my interest away from TMNT to satisfy that narrow perspective of storytelling then.) I'm not against romance, but it's not like this kids' show is going to go into serious contemplation about the dynamics of a romantic relationship. :lol:

But the romance is in the background for the most part and mostly comes into play when April's around. When she's not around, that stuff isn't even mentioned that much and it's all focused on the action.

That is true, mostly as you stated above, but the most noticeable example of shipping/romance being "overdone" is that the first thing most people think about with Nick Donnie is his crush on April, which short-changes Donnie's character depth in my eyes though. It was a relief in Season 1 when Leo got over his crush on Karai after realizing it wasn't going anywhere, and that it was even detrimental, but... that was during Season 1 and well... Season 2's overall writing has been disappointing to say the least. Now it seems that the writers wrote themselves in a corner because with Karai being Leo's sister, it's going to be a subtle bizarre situation whenever Leo shows interest in saving Karai (even Nick Raph mentioned Karai as being Leo's "girlfriend" in The Wrath of TigerClaw when he got upset with Leo taking her to their lair), especially since she's turning away from Shredder.

[NitpickingMask]

People will only complain when they feel it's done wrong, whether they're right or not is moot.

But Operation: Breakout proved that this crush can produce great stories, if it's written the right way.

Hell, that episode completely focused on it, and I remember a lot of people who didn't even like the Donnie/April stuff in Season 1 say they thought that episode was very exciting and excellent.

Let me ask a question from you:

Would that episode have been worse without romance parts at all? Did they contribute anything to that episode?

And second question, if writers are bad at romance and write a lot more frustrating moments than genuinely good stuff, isn't it better to just cut romance completely if it has 1:10 good to bad ratio?

[NoName999]

But the romance is in the background for the most part and mostly comes into play when April's around. When she's not around, that stuff isn't even mentioned that much and it's all focused on the action.

That's still problem because it gives the impression that April as being nothing more than just a love interest and not her own person.

[The Stryker]

That's still problem because it gives the impression that April as being nothing more than just a love interest and not her own person.

That might be the case if there weren't episodes that give April a backstory and character quirks that have nothing to do with Donatello.

[BabyTurtles]

I defiantly don't like the way Donnie acts around April.

I also don't like the way April acts around Donnie.

Casey is starting to also get on my nerves.

(can't we just end the love triangle?)

[BubblyShell22]

No because that's the way the writers want it. I don't mind it at all, and I don't see April as just a love interest for Donnie anyway. She is her own person even if we haven't seen much of that as of late. Same goes for Karai not just being Leo's love interest. The only people who may define Donnie solely by his crush on April are the ones who are new to the franchise or who only want to see that because they like it. We all know there's more to Donnie than just his crush on April, but instead of people focusing on those aspects, they want to b*tch and moan about Don and April.

[BabyTurtles]

No because that's the way the writers want it. I don't mind it at all, and I don't see April as just a love interest for Donnie anyway. She is her own person even if we haven't seen much of that as of late. Same goes for Karai not just being Leo's love interest. The only people who may define Donnie solely by his crush on April are the ones who are new to the franchise or who only want to see that because they like it. We all know there's more to Donnie than just his crush on April, but instead of people focusing on those aspects, they want to b*tch and moan about Don and April.

look we both see things differently. No biggie. :)
I believe the love stuff is too focused on whenever April shows up.

maybe you think everything is fine. We can agree to disagree.

But no one is complaining just to whine, we just see a problem and are criticizing it. At the end of the day we all want the show to do awesome.....but when a good amount of people see a problem with the love stuff....then somethings gotta be wrong with it right?

[Raphtastic]

Disclaimer: this is all just my personal opinion and no one is obligated to just agree with me. I'm not out to pick fights, just opinionated and long-winded. :) And it's not directed at anyone in particular, just the general theme of complaints I keep hearing about this part of the show both on this site and elsewhere.

I'm just kinda tired of the use of stalker, Nice Guy TM, etc for Donnie in this series. Not because of shipping or because I'm some kind of delusional person who thinks a character I like or show I like is infallible and beyond reproach, but because those words have a serious meaning for me and seeing them applied this way irks me the same way people casually tossing out the word sociopath irks me. (Sociopath has a meaning and it isn't "mean person that I don't like or understand. " Or serial killer or criminal genius or any number of other things. )

Donnie isn't bitterly complaining to everyone in earshot or any other character on the show that girls (or April in particular) owe him a relationship because he is civil to them and thinks they're pretty. He isn't pretending to be her friend or care about April as a ruse to get something from her. If she turns him down, the writers of this show have given no indication that he will drop her friendship like a hot rock or fly into a rage at her because she owes him. He's not telling or implying that April is his girlfriend and seems mostly afraid she thinks he's a freak. His occasional "my beautiful princess" in context seemed more pathetic and day dreamy than an overt, literal assertion of possession. He backpedaled and seemed apologetic to April when he realized what he'd said aloud. We're allowed to wish that someone is our beautiful prince/princess/person that we adore. What you're not allowed to do is to just assume that you own someone or that they HAVE to like you back, and there's a big difference between the two.

There are good conversations to be had about writers in media using female characters as objects for the hero to obtain who have little or no personality or agency of their own, but I see no evidence that Donnie is a Nice Guy TM and I think there's some convenient forgetfulness surrounding April's story arcs and characterization where we might be throwing the writers of the show further under the bus than they deserve. I am happy to see that people are actually looking for and talking about these harmful tropes, but I think we do have to keep in mind that April is a secondary character, the show has a pretty short run time and the emphasis is on action, so there may not be a ton of room for extra elaboration and nuance here. I see April as a stubborn, independent character with her own story arc outside of Donnie's unrequited crush and Casey ' s crude pursuit of her affections. (Honestly, Casey needs some extra background and development, but that's another story.)

As for the "stalking, " that bugs me more because the application of stalking here is overkill and I take stalking extremely seriously. I've seen it in real life and it isn't anything they're covering here. Fortunately. Because I don't watch TMNT to delve into that weirdness. April and Donnie are friends, so they know where the other one hangs out. April (and anyone else, for that matter) knows that Metalhead has a camera and that Donnie is controlling him, so she has no expectation of not being observed. Staring, while sometimes (okay, usually) rude or pathetic, is not equivalent to stalking or entitlement or really anything except possibly bad manners. If he were actively staring at certain body parts and/or commenting on them all the time, that would be different, but they haven't been writing Donnie that sleezy. (The nice jumpsuit comment was the only thing on his part that I recall getting close.) Showing up where you know someone you have a crush on likes to hang out in hopes of seeing them or talking to them is not stalking, even if you chicken out and just occasionally stare moon eyed at them. It might be awkward and pathetic, and it might not be comfortable to have someone who has unrequited feelings for you hanging around, but that doesn't mean you get to label every annoying or awkward person who likes you a creep or harasser or stalker. There's an actual line one has to cross to earn that label and it's a serious one. We should all be able to expect to not be harassed or stalked. But we don't get to demand that we never feel uncomfortable because someone likes us, we don't feel that way about them, and it's awkward. That's just a part of life. And, yeah, if you're the person with the unrequited feelings, try not to stare and absolutely do not do things like hover without talking to someone. But Donnie isn't being that weird guy who comes up like right next to/behind you and wordlessly creepily dances with?/at? you when you're just trying to watch a band or dance with your friends. At all.


As for the park, we can assume that Donnie wouldn't hide if he weren't, ya know, a mutant turtle who might attract lots of attention and violence if he weren't hiding. We can also assume that occasionally following friends/family/love interests in superhero contexts to make sure they get home safely or are doing all right or whatever is a different context from following someone like a predator everywhere they go in the real world. (There's actually a lot of behaviors in superhero/sci fi/fantasy/supernatural/action thriller contexts that would be creepy if you remove important aspects like someone being hunted down by aliens/monsters/whatever or villains plotting world domination. Typical crime fighting heroes would just be creepy people hanging out on rooftops, spying on everyone, following their loved ones around, lying to people about what they do in a totally bad way instead of "just protecting their secret identity so they can save the world/stop crime.") Donnie didn't track April for hours/days waiting for her to be alone so that he could scream at her about talking to a boy. He hasn't been breaking into her place to watch her sleep or installing cameras in her bathroom or something. He's not breaking her stuff or leaving her creepy gifts at her place, showing up at her home all the time after she's told him to leave her alone or getting up in her personal space, pawing at her and hanging on her against her wishes. He's not tracking her anywhere close to everywhere or all the time.

When April tells him to back off, he does and he apologizes. Splinter has a good conversation with him about how you can't make someone like you. Donnie is socially awkward and just learning about boundaries, so sticking around too long can be something we discuss, but it still doesn't make him a stalker. He is too busy and doing too many other things to have time to stalk April and, to me, appears to have too many other interests. Some of which are tangential to April (curing her father), but I don't think they are just shallow acts to impress her. Seriously, he's mostly depicted hanging out with his brothers and in his lab.

This doesn't mean someone likeable can't stalk someone or do bad things. Just that stalking is a real thing that goes beyond an occasional boundary transgression. I honestly thought the thing with the park and Splinter ' s discussion was a decent lesson about dealing with possible rejection and the temptation that a young person might have to be too pushy or not respect another person's boundaries and agency. Could the show have done more or better? Yes. But I think that it's important to point out that April is not afraid of Donnie and is still his very good friend even if she finds his behavior annoying on occasion. That context is important and not unrealistic.

And I also think arguments that April is leading Casey and Donnie on are unfounded. I don't see them writing her as a manipulative game player. She may not know what she wants or how she feels or she may have more important things on her mind (like all the drama with her father, the mystery surrounding her powers and her mother, etc) than sorting out a dating life that we're not certain she's interested in. There's been no evidence in the show that she's cold or calculating, anyway. I hope that the show doesn't slide into the easy trap of reducing her to a mere love interest and that, should she decide to date either Casey or Donnie, she does so for good reasons (not just Casey ' s the only human who knows the turtles or because he's just more confident; not just because Donnie likes her). So far, I'm not seeing it. They could leave her single. She could date Casey for awhile and they might realize they're too different or something and wind up finding a real reason to date Donnie later, as they've grown up more. She could date Donnie and find his life ultimately too different for her to really want that. Or she could have a more simple happily ever after scenario. If it's handled well and doesn't take over the action, I'm cool with it.

Btw, Refractive Reflections, "Tales of the Young and Scaly" cracked me up. There's many a fan fic that could go by that name! (Not that I have any problem with fan fic) And I can respect your argument that fandom can get caught up in trying to ship everyone. Though I'm not sure that removing romantic subplots would help, because fandom has a tendency to do that (and to pair up the weirdest combos of characters...like people who met once or mortal enemies) regardless. I think people just like to talk about Donnie's crush because 1. it's a new aspect of the franchise (we nerds are resistant to change), 2. some people want no romance and 3. The whole mutant and human aspect of the possible relationship. (I sometimes wonder if they've heard of Mass Effect or Captain Kirk or any number of sci fi/supernatural romance/fantasy books, but, whatever, to them it's a new idea)

[JTH]

^^^

True, the "Donnie knew April was at the park is creepy" thing confuses me to no end.

Do people just forget the Mutagen Man episode? Of course he knew she is always at the park at that time.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131117182315/tmnt/images/7/7e/TMNT_12_Don_April_pic.jpg

He's clearly been with her there before, along with who knows how many more times. He knew from experience, not from stalking.

[Konchadunga]

Don may not be a stalker, and it helps to know he's not a jerk. He may have taken his lust too far, but it's obviously not going to the point of predation. Nevertheless, the show's insistence on continuing this bit as is gets annoying. I have nothing against shipping, but I do despise any status-quo-is-God dilly-dallying on principle. Let it go somewhere.

[ssjup81]

Raphtastic: What you wrote there is what I've been trying to say...you just worded it better.^^^

True, the "Donnie knew April was at the park is creepy" thing confuses me to no end.

Do people just forget the Mutagen Man episode? Of course he knew she is always at the park at that time.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131117182315/tmnt/images/7/7e/TMNT_12_Don_April_pic.jpg

He's clearly been with her there before, along with who knows how many more times. He knew from experience, not from stalking.I mentioned this. He also said, "She's usually in the park studying around this time" or something like that. He has that photo if them together. He also mentioned he could offer to help her with homework/studying. It's not really too surprising he would know that.

[Midnight Mutant]

I don't understand why people find it creepy. He acts like any socially awkward 15 year old nerd boy with his first crush. I feel like people forget that kids have extreme emotions and respond to it much different than adults.

Because a lot of people who find it creepy are older and past that kind of reaction. They think it's weird or creepy, but it's not. I mean, does anyone remember having a crush when they were young and writing 'I love ___' or '____ plus ____ equals <33' all over their binder, diaries, journals or even carved in trees? And getting butterflies when said person talked to you or called you and it was like the most epic thing ever?
Just because it's not how you respond to it now, doesn't mean it's creepy when you did. Or creepy when kids do it now. It's perfectly natural.

Most young boys aren't as expressive about it as often because they don't want to get teased by their peers, so maybe because Donnie is, it seems awkward. I bet you a billion dollars if the roles were switched and April had a crush on Donnie and acted the same way, no one would bat an eye.

And that's with someone who HAS social skills. (I.E. interacting with more relatives/friends/classmates/teachers) Donnie has NONE aside from his brothers and Splinter.

His obsessiveness isn't even over April, it's over EVERYTHING! He's a scientist and a creator. He spends hours in his lab or training. You have to basically be borderline obsessive to lock yourself away to tinker with things for hours. Just like you have to be as a writer or a cosplayer. You can see how his mind works, calculating and analyzing and over thinking constantly, then throw in hormones, and a girl he likes while being thrown in the middle of saving the city/world!

He's acting exactly the way he should given the circumstances.

You want creepy crushes, look at Edward from Twilight. At least Donnie isn't slipping into Aprils room to watch her sleep. : /

And I'm not even an Apritello shipper.

[Donatello19]

I think most of the moments with Don and April are hilarious, so yeah, I guess you could say I like how he acts. He's awkward and clumsy around the girl he likes...all teenage guys do that, I know I did. As for the whole "stalking" thing you guys speak of...I think you're looking into it way too far. You make it like he watches her sleep or something, geez. I either want April to be single or end up with Don...because if she ends up with Casey they'll probably make Don depressed and jealous for several episodes, if not the entire season in which it happens. I can't see him being able to get over it too quickly...

[Netkeeper]

I'm just kinda tired of the use of stalker, Nice Guy TM, etc for Donnie in this series. Not because of shipping or because I'm some kind of delusional person who thinks a character I like or show I like is infallible and beyond reproach, but because those words have a serious meaning for me and seeing them applied this way irks me the same way people casually tossing out the word sociopath irks me.
While I understand your point and to an extent can agree with it, I personally agree with the application of those terms because it's where those kind of abusers originate in their mindsets. The kind of behaviour Donnie displays is what a young fedora-wearing Nice Guy would do, while still fairly innocent and not as jaded. I feel it's important to remind everyone of this, so I do use those terms. Children watching could very well develop similar mindsets, not solely from him, but from other characters in media, and overall the use of this type of mindset needs to stop being portrayed in the way it's currently being portrayed -- not for the sake of a joke, not for the sake of anything positive, just the rotten despicability that it is.

If she turns him down, the writers of this show have given no indication that he will drop her friendship like a hot rock or fly into a rage at her because she owes him.
We know this, because we know this type of thing wouldn't be intentionally written into the show. In real life, when people act this way, it's a very clear and present possibility. That's why I don't like its presence, especially on my favourite turtle, at all.

His occasional "my beautiful princess" in context seemed more pathetic and day dreamy than an overt, literal assertion of possession.
Doesn't matter. Still creepy. Not getting any sympathy from me.

We're allowed to wish that someone is our beautiful prince/princess/person that we adore.
Sure we are, but ew. Just ew.

I am happy to see that people are actually looking for and talking about these harmful tropes, but I think we do have to keep in mind that April is a secondary character, the show has a pretty short run time and the emphasis is on action, so there may not be a ton of room for extra elaboration and nuance here.
Part of what I [I]don't like is that April is shoved into secondary character position. She's supposed to be much more important to the turtles than that.

April (and anyone else, for that matter) knows that Metalhead has a camera and that Donnie is controlling him, so she has no expectation of not being observed.
That doesn't make it okay for Donnie to be using Metalhead for that purpose. It's still insanely creepy.

Showing up where you know someone you have a crush on likes to hang out in hopes of seeing them or talking to them is not stalking, even if you chicken out and just occasionally stare moon eyed at them. It might be awkward and pathetic, and it might not be comfortable to have someone who has unrequited feelings for you hanging around, but that doesn't mean you get to label every annoying or awkward person who likes you a creep or harasser or stalker. There's an actual line one has to cross to earn that label and it's a serious one.
Yes, you are also right about this, but you are missing the point where those type of behaviours stem from things like this. Eliminate the terrible behaviour before it gets worse.

Donnie didn't track April for hours/days waiting for her to be alone so that he could scream at her about talking to a boy. He hasn't been breaking into her place to watch her sleep or installing cameras in her bathroom or something. He's not breaking her stuff or leaving her creepy gifts at her place, showing up at her home all the time after she's told him to leave her alone or getting up in her personal space, pawing at her and hanging on her against her wishes. He's not tracking her anywhere close to everywhere or all the time.
No, because the show wouldn't go down that road. The writers are bad, but they aren't Stephanie Meyer bad. Just because his behaviour could be worse doesn't mean it's okay. That's like saying "Well, you could have stabbed me in the chest, but you stabbed me in the leg instead! You're not so bad after all."

He is too busy and doing too many other things to have time to stalk April and, to me, appears to have too many other interests.
Really, what are they? I can't really think of very much else this show does with Donatello except make him drool over April and act uncharacteristically on-edge.

I honestly thought the thing with the park and Splinter ' s discussion was a decent lesson about dealing with possible rejection and the temptation that a young person might have to be too pushy or not respect another person's boundaries and agency. Could the show have done more or better? Yes.
Yes, it COULD have done more or better. The fact that it's done so little to address how messed up this is is a serious problem.

But I think that it's important to point out that April is not afraid of Donnie and is still his very good friend even if she finds his behavior annoying on occasion. That context is important and not unrealistic.
There isn't even a lot of insight given as to how April feels about him, though. It's just Donnie Donnie Donnie.

If it's handled well and doesn't take over the action, I'm cool with it.
Good luck with it being handled well. Not with this show.

Though I'm not sure that removing romantic subplots would help, because fandom has a tendency to do that (and to pair up the weirdest combos of characters...like people who met once or mortal enemies) regardless.
Removing romantic subplots doesn't stop fandom from shipping anyway because the work a fandom produces will always inevitably be very different in content [and often, tone] from its source material. The reason for this is because the source material gives us a base, and fan material is created to fill the gaps that we don't get enough of in canon. We get a lot of action in TMNT, so a lot of fan work is going to be ship-heavy. It's just what fandom does. Animal Crossing had some really dark fanfic IIRC. It tends to be a pretty strange shock for some people. When it comes to shipping, all a writer really needs is a tiny bit of subjective subtext to play with.

The whole mutant and human aspect of the possible relationship. (I sometimes wonder if they've heard of Mass Effect or Captain Kirk or any number of sci fi/supernatural romance/fantasy books, but, whatever, to them it's a new idea)
There will always be someone in the fandom that won't understand common things like interspecies ships because there will always be people that reek of Babby's First Fandom. Just how it goes, I ignore 'em.

[ssjup81]

I don't understand why people find it creepy. He acts like any socially awkward 15 year old nerd boy with his first crush. I feel like people forget that kids have extreme emotions and respond to it much different than adults.

Because a lot of people who find it creepy are older and past that kind of reaction. They think it's weird or creepy, but it's not. I mean, does anyone remember having a crush when they were young and writing 'I love ___' or '____ plus ____ equals <33' all over their binder, diaries, journals or even carved in trees? And getting butterflies when said person talked to you or called you and it was like the most epic thing ever?
Just because it's not how you respond to it now, doesn't mean it's creepy when you did. Or creepy when kids do it now. It's perfectly natural.

Most young boys aren't as expressive about it as often because they don't want to get teased by their peers, so maybe because Donnie is, it seems awkward. I bet you a billion dollars if the roles were switched and April had a crush on Donnie and acted the same way, no one would bat an eye.

And that's with someone who HAS social skills. (I.E. interacting with more relatives/friends/classmates/teachers) Donnie has NONE aside from his brothers and Splinter.

His obsessiveness isn't even over April, it's over EVERYTHING! He's a scientist and a creator. He spends hours in his lab or training. You have to basically be borderline obsessive to lock yourself away to tinker with things for hours. Just like you have to be as a writer or a cosplayer. You can see how his mind works, calculating and analyzing and over thinking constantly, then throw in hormones, and a girl he likes while being thrown in the middle of saving the city/world!

He's acting exactly the way he should given the circumstances.

You want creepy crushes, look at Edward from Twilight. At least Donnie isn't slipping into Aprils room to watch her sleep. : /

And I'm not even an Apritello shipper.Yeah, he does obsess over everything. He overthinks and overdoes things...like someone who is OCD. That really explains his chart.

[victory_angel]

Yeah, he does obsess over everything. He overthinks and overdoes things...like someone who is OCD. That really explains his chart.

And Donnie does have OCD in this version. Or at least that's how the executive producer J.R. Ventimillia describes him.

[Midnight Mutant]

And Donnie does have OCD in this version. Or at least that's how the executive producer J.R. Ventimillia describes him. Can you imagine if you bad OCD and came off the same way irl as Donnie when it came to crushes, and then read online that a character who you relate to is constantly called a creep?

: (

It's not Donnie's fault he's different.

[Konchadunga]

Netkeeper, you are coming very close to suggesting a huge section of the teenage populace change their behavior. What you call creepy, many of us see as normal. Immature and naive? Sure, but obsessing over a crush is something a lot of people do. I did it. My brother did it; at least according to my mother. People I've heard vent did it. Furthermore, not every girl dislikes it. Some, who feel unloved and dorky in general, are flattered by the attention--why do you think Twilight and One Direction and Bruno Mars are popular? I personally think it's a crappy excuse for romance, but the fact remains it is the form many inexperienced kids understand. And calling it the first step on the way to genuine sexual predation is just absurd; that's like calling throwing a tantrum at someone who insulted you the first step on the way to being a murderer. We all have animal urges but most of us also have inhibitions, empathy, and even commonsensical self-preservation skills, so looking down on mild quirks is seriously overreacting.

I don't see the show as trying to encourage such sentiment as much as playing to it. In the last incarnation, Donatello and Leonardo were basically the flawless masters of their craft. This show gave each of them a sort of common teenage dorkiness to bring them more to the level of the other two turtles. I will agree that the show has gone too long without giving any comeuppance to this flaw, but that's a problem it has regarding every turtle's flaws. And though there's room for improvement, a self-proclaimed "TMNT 2012 hate machine" will probably never be pleased. I suggest you just leave this show's forum, because you aren't converting anyone.

[Midnight Mutant]

Netkeeper, you are coming very close to suggesting a huge section of the teenage populace change their behavior. What you call creepy, many of us see as normal. Immature and naive? Sure, but obsessing over a crush is something a lot of people do. I did it. My brother did it; at least according to my mother. People I've heard vent did it. Furthermore, not every girl dislikes it. Some, who feel unloved and dorky in general, are flattered by the attention--why do you think Twilight and One Direction and Bruno Mars are popular? I personally think it's a crappy excuse for romance, but the fact remains it is the form many inexperienced kids understand. And calling it the first step on the way to genuine sexual predation is just absurd; that's like calling throwing a tantrum at someone who insulted you the first step on the way to being a murderer. We all have animal urges but most of us also have inhibitions, empathy, and even commonsensical self-preservation skills, so looking down on mild quirks is seriously overreacting.

I don't see the show as trying to encourage such sentiment as much as playing to it. In the last incarnation, Donatello and Leonardo were basically the flawless masters of their craft. This show gave each of them a sort of common teenage dorkiness to bring them more to the level of the other two turtles. I will agree that the show has gone too long without giving any comeuppance to this flaw, but that's a problem it has regarding every turtle's flaws. And though there's room for improvement, a self-proclaimed "TMNT 2012 hate machine" will probably never be pleased. I suggest you just leave this show's forum, because you aren't converting anyone.
Thank you!

[snake]

I'm not too fond of it. I really wish it would go somewhere instead of being a hanging on/off plot. It's honestly like the Kraang plot currently, it's doing nothing.

[Midnight Mutant]

I'm not too fond of it. I really wish it would go somewhere instead of being a hanging on/off plot. It's honestly like the Kraang plot currently, it's doing nothing.
I'm hoping it will pick up again in the episode 'Plan 10' myself, since it's involving more Kraang.

[snake]

I'm hoping it will pick up again in the episode 'Plan 10' myself, since it's involving more Kraang.

Yeah, but I'm not expecting anything. The Kraang are just around anymore, they were defeated in season one and they serve no purpose now. I really want to like them though.

[Konchadunga]

Thank you!

You're welcome.

I don't deny that genuine objectification of the opposite sex is a bad thing, but in cases like these I think it is overdiagnosed. Many times a failure to factor in the mind of someone one likes for their body isn't due to a clinical inability to recognize intelligence, but the fact that minds are, by default, usually a mystery, while bodies aren't. Prying for more on the basis of physical attraction isn't necessarily feeding into that naïveté; on the contrary it is sometimes the only way to get past it. Go ahead and look into the ones you lust after; examine their FaceBook page to learn more, determine what their hobbies are, spend as much time talking with them as is socially acceptable.

Chances are high you'll find out there's something that'll prevent a serious relationship from happening, but most people do, in fact, bounce back from such spills. We don't typically end up with an extreme desire to harm or violate the "object", because again; the limits of our understanding of others only go so far, and in general humans (and presumably sentient turtles) understand that others do not like being harmed or forced against their will. There is a thick line in our conscience between pursuing self-interest and turning to parasitism, and there's absolutely nothing in Don's personality to suggest he'll cross it.

[Leo656]

To put it succinctly...
q-pGwEWQFsA

[pennydreadful]

It does occur to me that we're regarding Donnie's behavior through the lenses of our own experiences. One of the prices of growing up I guess, is that by the time we're old enough and educated enough to properly analyze these types of things, we're also unable to view them without subconsciously drawing upon our own biases and emotions.

[Konchadunga]

I can say, without giving away too much, that I went much further than Don did in pursuing my High School crush. However, I can also say I never became a rapist, and in fact, learned my lesson well, as it became clear to me she and I were not on the same page and I was scaring her.

I think a big part of the problem here, and why Don doesn't learn any tangible lesson regarding his attitude, is because the show's budget and workload don't lend themselves well to developing April more. While there's no excuse for some of the dumber comments Ciro Nieli made about women, I generally believe him when he says CGI places severe limits on the amount of situations a show is able to cover; meaning that the Turtles and their main antagonists are obviously the priority, while most humans--both male and female--get shafted. Look at Casey Jones for a perfect male example: Back in the 2003 series, we got to see him working out at his apartment, a flashback detailing why he became a vigilante, and plenty bits where he's just interacting with other humans; 2012 Casey generally comes into play only when April and Don need some sort of foil, or situations are so heated that they need every teammate they can get.

Moreso than either past cartoon, in this show it really feels like it's the Turtles' world, and others just play in it; instead of vice-versa.

[Leo656]

It does occur to me that we're regarding Donnie's behavior through the lenses of our own experiences. One of the prices of growing up I guess, is that by the time we're old enough and educated enough to properly analyze these types of things, we're also unable to view them without subconsciously drawing upon our own biases and emotions.


I get what you're saying, but in my case, it pushes me even more against the entire thing.

Full disclosure - and in truth, this entire thing embarrasses the living sh*t out of me and makes me wish I could beat my younger self to a pulp for being a moron - but when I was in high school, I more or less had a Donnie/April thing going on with a girl I knew who was a grade ahead. We were super-close, "best friends", did everything together, had a lot of similar interests and hang-ups, the whole deal. Over time, I fell in what I assumed was love with her, and after talking to a few mutual friends about it, I decided honesty was the best course of action. So I told her, and while she was nice enough about it, she more or less told me there was no chance we'd ever be together. She understood that feelings just don't evaporate, so she just figured she would wait it out and it would go away on its own, but it didn't. The more we hung out, the more all the stuff I liked about her made me like her even more. When she moved away to go to college, we talked for hours on the phone a few times a week, and in some ways we grew closer than ever, but the whole time, each of us was thinking the other was going to change their mind and "give in": Either I would "grow out of" my crush on her, or she would "realize" that we were "perfect" for each other. I figured it would end up in my favor, because a few of our friends were kind of nudging her to give it a chance, but in the moment, I had no idea how sad, pathetic, creepy and stalker-y I was coming off.

And I totally wasn't trying to be; I just figured, based on evidence, "Well, she's confused right now, and our friendship has literally everything she claims she wants in a relationship, and eventually she'll see that." What I hadn't factored in was that in college, she'd make new friends, who would advise her that having a friend harboring these feelings for her even after being told "no chance" wasn't healthy for anyone involved. So, long story short, one day I got a call out of the blue where she told me we were no longer friends and I was forbidden from ever speaking to her again. I took that to heart, and I haven't. She split off from a bunch of our other friends, too - mostly for "enabling" me - and since then I've noticed that a lot of them nonetheless have her as a friend on Facebook, so I guess they worked it all out amongst themselves, but I truly feel bad that I made her so uncomfortable and forced our friends to put up with my whiny, "I-love-her-why-doesn't-she-love-me" bullsh*t, so I've kept my word and never reached out to her. It's better off, I think.

Point being, these "innocent little crush" scenarios never work out, No Means No, and putting this kind of thing in a kids show as if it's just cute innocent fun sends a dangerous message. Having been there - and my devotion wasn't 1/100th of how obsessed Donnie acts in this show - I can safely say that were it a more true-to-life scenario, neither April or Donnie would come out of it in the end in a very emotionally healthy place. They *probably* wouldn't even be friends anymore. Unlike some people, I *do* remember going through all that, and it sucks, and it sucks in this show, because at best it's simply not realistic and at worst it sends the message that acting like Donnie is OK, when it isn't.

So, I wish they never even went there in this show. Frankly, I don't have any problem with the whole inter-species thing, as they're both sapient creatures, and it's all fiction so who gives a sh*t, but a Nick show aimed at the ages-5-and-up crowd is never going to completely "go there", so it's pointless to even string it along. All it does is make Donnie look like a potential sex offender... and we ALL know that Raphael is the date rapist. :P

[Konchadunga]

From what I read, I don't think you were at fault; unless you were so sexually oriented that you placed no value at all on the idea of a platonic friendship for its own sake. If not, then she, and her new friends, made much ado about nothing; or at least, as little as made no difference. I have female friends whom I had a crush on and who went with other men, and I'm very glad that those new people have never planted the idea in their heads that I'm insistent upon getting with them when I talk to them. It's okay to consider other people at fault sometimes; not because they chose not to be your girlfriend, but because they chose not to be your friend friend when by all other factors they could have been. People are going to be a lot lonelier if the "this guy might want to get into my pants" factor is too eminent in their mind.

And once again, your example is not the only one. There are girls who like being "stalked" (to use the more liberal definition Netkeeper insists upon); as in the case of those who feel so lonely normally that any attention is good. In fact, the girl I "stalked" in High School returned my interest at first, until she got a new boyfriend over the Summer. So no; Don's behavior does not necessarily send a bad message; the problem is that what kind of message it sends is almost a moot point when what type of girl April is doesn't really get specified. If only they would do something like portray her as a nerd at school who was never popular, but happens to share a lot in common with the guy who happens to have fallen into a situation where he fell in love with her, then this would seem viable. Maybe not interesting or deep, but something resembling what an actual healthy relationship is.

[Leo656]

Well, it's complicated. I may not have been "at fault", but if I had taken No for what it's worth and not pushed the issue, I might still have her for a friend, most likely, and she truly was a terrific person, which is part of what I liked about her. And I definitely did want to bang her, but she not only knew that, she was surprisingly accepting of the whole thing - she was one of those newfangled super-feminist "liberated" types, and thought casual sex between "just friends" was perfectly fine. I just wasn't one of the friends on her list. :lol: But more than just anything simply physical, what really made me think we were a "match" was how for each of us, out of everyone we knew, we best "got" each other. We both knew that and admitted it numerous times, which didn't make the whole thing any easier, honestly.

Not to point fingers - especially since all she did to instigate the crush was be herself - but a person could be forgiven for thinking that she did kind of send a lot of mixed signals. We're both very physical, affectionate, "huggy" people, so there was always a lot of that going on. And we agreed that within the "limits" of friendship, we did "love" each other, and told each other often. Not that I didn't understand the distinction, but it did give me a hope that our friendship could eventually grow beyond. But again, from where we were with each other, we both were simply being honest with each other, not "leading anyone on" or deliberately sending mixed signals. It was just a messed-up, confusing situation that ended in a huge mess of hurt feelings. I've never been sure if it would have been better if she had just laughed me off and told me to get lost right from the start. Because frankly, I'd long gotten used to that anyway. So I've never really bought the "Better to have loved and lost..." idea, because you can't miss what you never had, after all.

In the end, it almost certainly worked out for the best, because later on, since we weren't speaking anymore, some of our friends let me in on things they'd known about her but hadn't wanted to tell me because it would upset me. Stuff like how she nailed a guy we were both friends with, on random impulse, despite the fact she kind of couldn't stand him, simply because he fit her definition of "cute". There were other things, but that was a big one that made me realize, "Wow, turns out there were a lot of reasons we just wouldn't work, after all. Good thing we dodged that bullet."

Plus, it took me forever to realize, from a guy's perspective, that chasing does no good. If they're serious, they'll come to you. :lol: That might sound messed up, but the only dating/sexual relationships I've ever had that more or less "worked out" were ones that I didn't instigate. Maybe it's different for other folks. But to this day, whenever I see a guy go out of his way to "chase" a girl, I hardly ever think, "that's so romantic," I'm more apt to think, "Man, that's just sad." Maybe my perspective got skewed, I'unno.

I mean, it's one of those things in life that happens, and it's a big part of "growing up" for most people, but unless the endgame of the Nick show is for some reason to leave Donnie a confused, insecure, neurotic, socially-paranoid wreck by the end of it... MUST we go there? I'unno. Seems a little too much, for no reason.

[victory_angel]

Donnie does pay attention to April's feelings though and visual cues.

Such as this one moment in Alien Agenda where Donnie holds out his arms to hug April, and April looks at him as if saying "Yeah, I'm not doing that". And he accepts that she didn't want a hug from him at that moment in time.

http://screencapped.net/tv/tmnt/albums/userpics/10002/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_2012_S01E15_The_Alien _Agenda_720p_WEB-DL_x264_AAC_0806.jpg

http://screencapped.net/tv/tmnt/albums/userpics/10002/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_2012_S01E15_The_Alien _Agenda_720p_WEB-DL_x264_AAC_0807.jpg

Yeah there have been times he's practically let blurted out he loves April and wants her as a girl friend. But every times he has he's back pedaled and apologizes for it.

For example when he accidentally says "My April" she looks at him as if saying 'Since when am I yours'. But he automatically lets on that was something he hadn't meant to say and she accepts it as that.

Later in Karai's Vendetta he calls April once they get back to the lair to see if she's alright. And she cheerfully answers because she's glad to know that even though he could not be there for her, he cared enough to make sure she was okay.

And yes he does accidentally call her "My sweet princess" but automatically apologizes by saying "Please say I muted that?" And April kindly decides to let it slide, because she's come to recognize that yes Donnie has feelings for her, but he doesn't want them to get farther then she's comfortable with.

If Donnie was as obsessive as some of you have described, he would be doing a lot more once Casey came into the picture.

Such as that moment he slips away from training to see if she is in the park. Yes he is deluding himself into believing she would be willing to see him as he does ask himself "Would it be weird for me to just show up?" Even though he knows she had specifically said that she never wanted to see any of them again. But the poor guy was miserable? Miserable because he feels responsible for the fact she is for all intents and purposes an orphan? And also because he misses her?

Yes when he sees April with Casey he is upset yes. And he is noticeably irked when Leo refers to Casey as April's boyfriend. But with the way you guys describe him it sounds like he appear to them and demanded to know what they were doing together? Or maybe personally confronting Casey and telling him to stay away from April if he knew what was good for him. But he doesn't? And when he talks to April in "Target: April O'Neil" he doesn't tell her he is aware of Casey nor does he bring this matter up when Casey is introduced later. As much as having the person who he sees as a rival for April's affections being aware of them is an irritation he doesn't say anything of "You're the punk kid that has been hanging out with April?"

April has enough sense to know where her comfort zone is, and enough of a mind to let both of her suitors know when they are crossing a line.

I'm going to use Gargoyles as an example: There was one episode towards the end of the Original Series where the Trio are flirting with Goliath's Daughter, Angela or Angie as the Trio are calling her in that episode. And they are also fighting each other over who should have her. Angela for her part is clearly irritated by their actions, but she doesn't know how to react to them because she isn't use to them as people just yet. So there is one moment where she asked Elisa about their behavior. Elisa just responds by saying that it's more then likely due to to the fact that it's been 1000 years since they've seen a female gargoyle (Not counting Demona) and that Angela is a big girl and should let them know how she wants to be treated. So Angela makes it quite clear that she doesn't want to be called Angie any more she doesn't appreciate them fighting over her. And in the end they all apologize for their behavior and she accept their apology.

I can't speak for Casey, but if she told Donnie she liked him but only as a friend and maybe a brother but that's it. He would accept that as her choice, he wouldn't like it but he would accept that as an honest statement of where her feelings for him are. And that could be something April herself would do once she is sure of her feelings.

In fact the sweetest moments between them are the moments where he's just there for her as a friend. Yeah saving/ curing her dad can be taken as selfishness because he wants to do that to make him like her. However let's say he hadn't fallen in love with her the first moment he saw her, would he not have tried to rescue her and her father because it was the right thing to do? Would he have gone out of his way to find return her father because he felt he owed her that? Would he struggle to do what was considered impossible by developing a way to restore her fathers humanity in order to right a wrong that had been committed?

However there are hints April isn't all that comfortable around Casey. She likes him as a friend, and she's comfortable around him as a friend. But he's the one who is saying he wants to be doing something where the two of them are in a more cozy situation. However every time he asks when they are going to go on a real date, she always tells him not to push things, or asks "Who said this was a date?"

Heck in Pizza Face when she picks up the pizza and says she's going to go share it with Casey. Irma says "You're not going to see Jones, your going to see those secret friends of yours?"

[BubblyShell22]

Gotta agree with Raphtastic and VA here. Donnie isn't stalking April or demanding that she choose him at all. And when Splinter presented his lesson about not forcing April to come back to them, Don respected that and didn't try to force her to come back to them. He wanted her to come back because he was truly sorry, not because he was stalking her. Haven't you ever had a falling out with one of your friends and you feel guilty about it and want to apologize and make up for it because you like that person and want to be friends again? I have, and I've felt the same way Donnie has in regards to that. In the end, my friends and I would make up, and that would be that. That's what Don wanted to do because he felt guilty for what he and his brothers did, and that's the same reason he wanted to find a retro-mutagen for Kirby. No stalking involved there.

I'm sorry for what happened to you, Leo, and I can understand why you would think this show is going there, but I don't agree. Yeah, teens can be stupid about love because they just don't know that love takes time to develop, but I don't think Don is really displaying the behavior that you did or went through at all. He just genuinely cares for her and he knows that there's a chance she won't choose him. He even says this in "Mutagen Man Unleashed" to Timothy.

[Netkeeper]

Yeah, he does obsess over everything. He overthinks and overdoes things...like someone who is OCD. That really explains his chart.
Okay, wow. If you don't see the implications of what you said, I feel sorry for you. I hope somebody with OCD never sees this post.

Sure, but obsessing over a crush is something a lot of people do.
Being preoccupied with thoughts of your crush a lot [the definition of obsessing] is fine. Most people do it. Most people have done it. I've done it! But when you overstep boundaries in acting on that obsession is when we have a problem. This isn't hard to understand.

Furthermore, not every girl dislikes it. Some, who feel unloved and dorky in general, are flattered by the attention--why do you think Twilight and One Direction and Bruno Mars are popular? I personally think it's a crappy excuse for romance, but the fact remains it is the form many inexperienced kids understand. And calling it the first step on the way to genuine sexual predation is just absurd; that's like calling throwing a tantrum at someone who insulted you the first step on the way to being a murderer.
Really. You mentioned Twilight in one sentence, then said "no way this is the first step to sexual predation" in the next, with a straight face. Do you even know what thoughts create the idea that it's OK to do that to people? Because let me tell you, most people that commit sexual assault don't think they were in the wrong. They were raised into thinking it was right by seeing these boundary-stepping behaviours in their media. It's especially inappropriate in children's media.

We all have animal urges but most of us also have inhibitions, empathy, and even commonsensical self-preservation skills, so looking down on mild quirks is seriously overreacting.
You're underreacting. I overreact on purpose so people can't turn a blind eye to Donatello's inappropriate behaviour. Stop excusing it. What he does isn't ****ing okay.

In the last incarnation, Donatello and Leonardo were basically the flawless masters of their craft.
I'm pretty sure you never watched 2k3 if you think that's the case.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/79250d527e3e75f511d6d78917242193/tumblr_mxan9imTli1qmxswdo4_400.gif http://i.imgur.com/vAbDCOE.gif
WOW
SO FLAWLESS
MUCH CRAFT

Donatello was a worker bee to a fault, falling asleep in the middle of the job. He didn't always think about side-effects, just reaching his end goal. And oh yeah, he sort of lost during the first round of the Battle Nexus. He is also not as socially awkward. If anything, in that incarnation, Leo might have been the socially awkward one. I like this, because it mixes things up a bit and it doesn't put the nerd in a stereotypical position. The nerd is friendly, and he makes more friends than the other turtles do! He is usually quick to get attached, as seen with Kirby, Jhanna, and Angel, which can be seen as a fault.

Either way, these are much better flaws than "obsesses over one person to a creepy degree" because it's WAY more relatable and isn't horrendously disturbing to watch. Also, it's more varied. There's a lot more to 2k3 Don than 2k12 Don. 2k3 Don would probably be appalled at this alternate version of himself, because 2k3 Don respected women for their minds, not their bodies. Which is what everyone should be doing, and what I would want kids looking up to.

I've gone over Leonardo's flaws before, and they're way more obvious. He is too hard on himself, expects perfection, and expects to always be in charge. He can get wrapped up in his own problems to the point where he forgets that he doesn't have to do this alone. He places all the responsibilities of his brothers on his own shoulders, and it bites at him. And his judgement is NOT always the best. Do I seriously need to keep bringing up the fact that he almost sided with the Shredder? OR the several-episode-long arc of self-pity and eventual self-discovery? Leonardo grows into being a more well-rounded fighter, but he has to work damn hard to get there.

And though there's room for improvement, a self-proclaimed "TMNT 2012 hate machine" will probably never be pleased. I suggest you just leave this show's forum, because you aren't converting anyone.
I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm criticising this show for my own reasons. If you know I call myself the TMNT 2k12 Hate Machine [capitalise that! it's a title! :P] then you should also know that I'm writing a long-term project about the turtles. I criticise so I can improve MYSELF as a writer, and I mention flaws [in the writing, not the characters!] repeatedly so I know not to make those mistakes myself. It's in my best interest to stay here. Going on some sort of internet tirade to "convince people to my side" would be a waste of time, because people on the internet don't listen. I mean, look at me. I call myself a Hate Machine. I don't take it seriously. Why are you?

[JTH]

You're underreacting. I overreact on purpose so people can't turn a blind eye to Donatello's inappropriate behaviour. Stop excusing it. What he does isn't ****ing okay.

Stalking is an illegal offense, nothing Donnie has done would make a person be arrested in real life, and that's a fact. Don't have to like it or approve, but it's a fact.

Plus you've been on record that you have more of a problem with this because Donnie's a mutant and he should know better. And you have far less a problem with what Casey is doing, who should know equally as Donnie.

You have more of a problem with the one doing said actions then the actions themselves.

And sorry, but anyone that has to use **** for F-Bombs in a regular forum conversation, is overreacting. Big time overreacting.

[Netkeeper]

Stalking is an illegal offense, nothing Donnie has done would make a person be arrested in real life, and that's a fact. Don't have to like it or approve, but it's a fact.

Plus you've been on record that you have more of a problem with this because Donnie's a mutant and he should know better. And you have far less a problem with what Casey is doing, who should know equally as Donnie.

You have more of a problem with the one doing said actions then the actions themselves.

And sorry, but anyone that has to use **** for F-Bombs in a regular forum conversation, is overreacting. Big time overreacting.
You are MISSING THE POINT ENTIRELY and I'm not going to repeat myself again just for your benefit. Go back and re-read my posts.

I never said I didn't have a problem with Casey. Did I ever say that? No I didn't. I also never said that I have a problem with this because Donnie's a mutant. What the hell have you been reading? Because it sure ain't my posts.

Also, I'm not typing in the asterisks themselves. I let the forum word filter do what it wants, because trying to dodge it is against the rules and I don't see a need to try and dodge it anyway. If you think I'm overreacting just because I like to use the word ****, you're silly. I always talk that way.

[ssjup81]

Okay, wow. If you don't see the implications of what you said, I feel sorry for you. I hope somebody with OCD never sees this post.What I meant, was that he obsesses over most anything he gets really into as a way to try and be perfect. His chart shows that.

[Netkeeper]

What I meant, was that he obsesses over most anything he gets really into as a way to try and be perfect. His chart shows that.
His chart shows that he doesn't care about April's boundaries and that he won't take "no" for an answer.

[ssjup81]

His chart shows that he doesn't care about April's boundaries and that he won't take "no" for an answer.No, it shows that you have ignored the reasoning behind it as it's totally normal, but given Donnie's obsession with being perfect, they upped it.

[Netkeeper]

No, it shows that you have ignored the reasoning behind it as it's totally normal, but given Donnie's obsession with being perfect, they upped it.
It's not NORMAL to make charts designed to turn a girl's "no" into a "yes". That is terrifying and dangerous.

[Leo656]

I could see it either way, but from my perspective, it's a little bit over the line.

Since I'm a dude and fully cop to not knowing or entirely caring how chicks think, I defer to the wife in cases like that. She has some boundary issues of her own, but she totally thought Donnie's chart was creepy. Also sad.

Even in a purely innocent light, though, it doesn't exactly make Donnie's character look any "better". Desperation doesn't look good on anyone, ever.

[Netkeeper]

I could see it either way, but from my perspective, it's a little bit over the line.

Since I'm a dude and fully cop to not knowing or entirely caring how chicks think, I defer to the wife in cases like that. She has some boundary issues of her own, but she totally thought Donnie's chart was creepy. Also sad.

Even in a purely innocent light, though, it doesn't exactly make Donnie's character look any "better". Desperation doesn't look good on anyone, ever.
It isn't necessarily always an issue of guys not knowing how chicks think [which in an of itself is kind of silly, since we are not really that different; we're just raised differently]. As a dude who usually chooses to surround himself with female friends, I've seen chicks do the same to guys; and as a gay dude, I've seen men disrespect my boundaries. It's an issue no matter the gender of the people involved, though admittedly it is a bit more common with guys.

[JTH]

I could see it either way, but from my perspective, it's a little bit over the line.

Since I'm a dude and fully cop to not knowing or entirely caring how chicks think, I defer to the wife in cases like that. She has some boundary issues of her own, but she totally thought Donnie's chart was creepy. Also sad.

Even in a purely innocent light, though, it doesn't exactly make Donnie's character look any "better". Desperation doesn't look good on anyone, ever.
The thing is, people keep using this example like it just happened. The chart and "My April" was like episode 6 and 9 of Season 1. 40+ episodes have pasted since then.

Characters have changed a great deal since then.

I don't mind if people have an issue, but I don't get why people aren't using current material to make that case if so, because it has died down quite a bit in the past several episodes.

[BabyTurtles]

It does occur to me that we're regarding Donnie's behavior through the lenses of our own experiences.

maybe that's half the reason. I know when I was 12....there was a boy that liked me. He was pretty nice...but, he was constantly trying to get my attention and talked to my friends about me secretly...it was SOOOO uncomfortable for me.....At one point I just avoided him, even thinking of his name back then gave me the chills....the worst part about all of this was...it was an extremely SMALL school, so I could never avoid him completely.(same classes, same breaks, same lunches). Also....I was the only girl around his age....(it felt like he only liked me because there wasn't anyone else).

anyway...

that's why I'm so irked by Donnie....but more so than Donnie....I'm annoyed by April.

she's not doing anything.....she's not approving or disapproving...she's just letting stuff happen....and that makes me uneasy. I know some people might say "why does she have to do anything, it's the boys fault"......well I don't believe that, some boys(most boys)....can't take a hint, they just don't understand. If a girl knows the boy(and is not a stranger) and doesn't like him...then she should tell him before he does something that will embarrass himself...and ruin a friendship.

I don't know about most girls....but it's NOT fun to be chased after by a guy the way Donnie is doing.....and April not having much say in the whole chase is driving me crazy. It's like the show wants us to find Donnie's awkward flirting charming....but all I find it is creepy.

also....April flirting with Casey makes me a little upset now too.....she's either oblivious to Donnie's crush.....or is just liking the attention from both boys.

I simply want Donnie to learn that the way he is pursuing April is wrong...and it would be nice if April herself said it, but I'm not holding my breathe with those recent storyboards.

seriously, this whole thing is ruining the show for me.

also NO it's not because he's a turtle and she's a human....I watched my sister play Mass effect, Garrus is freaking awesome!

[Mona_Lisa]

I can't believe how serious this conversation is!!!:tlol: Donnie's crush on April doesn't bother me. There just kids... He was kinda following her outside but he wasn't peaking into her bedroom at night or anything.
Not to mention he is a ninja turtle, and April is wanted buy an alien race. He would be protective over someone he likes, right?
When I was younger I crushed on a boy I was best friends with, then we grew apart but I still had feelings for him (and he very obviously had none for me). Its a pretty relatable scenario.

One more point: In the 1st and 2nd movie I always felt April was "Raph's girl". Now I don't think April wanted to run away with Ralph :tlol: but Raph liked her, was following her, and she just happened to fall into trouble! The April crush thing is not new to tmnt.

[snake]

This thread is intense :teek:

[BabyTurtles]

This thread is intense :teek:

I know right XD

if only Donnie's crush was more like Aang's crush >:U cute and more subtle.

[ssjup81]

I know right XD

if only Donnie's crush was more like Aang's crush >:U cute and more subtle.I think it's a cute crush and I'm neither for not against it. I'm not a real fan, but I find it cute how goofy and awkward Donnie acts.

A disturbing thought, but I wonder if Splinter's ever talked about romantic relationship stuff with them.

[BabyTurtles]

I think it's a cute crush and I'm neither for not against it. I'm not a real fan, but I find it cute how goofy and awkward Donnie acts.

A disturbing thought, but I wonder if Splinter's ever talked about romantic relationship stuff with them.

who knows...the only time I can think of was when he tried teaching Donnie about not pushing April to like him.

maybe he talked about his relationship with Tang shen with them?

[latmat]

This thread is really quite funny and interesting. Personally I think the writers are riding the line nicely. I think a lot of it is just for humours sake. I laughed pretty hard at the chart episode. It's more about Donny's awkwardness then obsession.

Whenever someone puts themselves out there they would like a positive outcome, we all do subtle things to improve our chances in any situation. This is social intelligence; how behave socially to have positive outcomes. Donny was simply trying to improve his own chances due to a perceived deficiency in his own social abilities around his romantic interest, April. Then of course that episode has a theme around overthinking and how its best to be flexible. Donny using this approach with April, the same he uses for fighting as well. It's what makes him a talented scientist. The whole episode is a life lesson for Donny, a little less thinking/planning a little more being in the moment.

As for the subtly issue I feel like its not this crazy thing but a lot of the anime inspired emotional styling of the show heightens it I feel. The crazy emotion graphics around there face. It's hard to show an internal emotional state in cartoon, thus this short cut is effective if not an exaggeration.

I don't know. I haven't found anything too desperate going on, nothing that bothers me. We all watch this stuff through the lens of our own experiences I guess. I'm indifferent, saying that, I'd rather have the relationship be defined as purely friendship in the future with casey as Aprils romance. That way it would be less prevalent in the show as Casey and April aren't the feature characters.

Also I feel like April having a romance with Donny could only lead one place... Devastating heartbreak. It might be a bit too intense for a 22 minute action cartoon made mostly for kids. I feel like the whole concept of that happening has way too many implications and is best avoided. Implications which make me sad just thinking about them.

Being a mutant turtle would be very lonely, when I imagine the life of the turtles I feel their is a lot of longing, a lot of sadness. This is also what makes their family bond so amazing so strong, they are all they have in their world. I think for the show that the area of romance gets at this isolation and longing that must be present. I like the idea of exploring this facet of what it means to be a turtle but its too much, too dramatic, too real, too emotionally complex for this version of TMNT.

They gotta keep it fun. That was a lot of rambling... lol

[Konchadunga]

Okay, wow. If you don't see the implications of what you said, I feel sorry for you. I hope somebody with OCD never sees this post.


Being preoccupied with thoughts of your crush a lot [the definition of obsessing] is fine. Most people do it. Most people have done it. I've done it! But when you overstep boundaries in acting on that obsession is when we have a problem. This isn't hard to understand.


Really. You mentioned Twilight in one sentence, then said "no way this is the first step to sexual predation" in the next, with a straight face. Do you even know what thoughts create the idea that it's OK to do that to people? Because let me tell you, most people that commit sexual assault don't think they were in the wrong. They were raised into thinking it was right by seeing these boundary-stepping behaviours in their media. It's especially inappropriate in children's media.


You're underreacting. I overreact on purpose so people can't turn a blind eye to Donatello's inappropriate behaviour. Stop excusing it. What he does isn't ****ing okay.


I'm pretty sure you never watched 2k3 if you think that's the case.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/79250d527e3e75f511d6d78917242193/tumblr_mxan9imTli1qmxswdo4_400.gif http://i.imgur.com/vAbDCOE.gif
WOW
SO FLAWLESS
MUCH CRAFT

Donatello was a worker bee to a fault, falling asleep in the middle of the job. He didn't always think about side-effects, just reaching his end goal. And oh yeah, he sort of lost during the first round of the Battle Nexus. He is also not as socially awkward. If anything, in that incarnation, Leo might have been the socially awkward one. I like this, because it mixes things up a bit and it doesn't put the nerd in a stereotypical position. The nerd is friendly, and he makes more friends than the other turtles do! He is usually quick to get attached, as seen with Kirby, Jhanna, and Angel, which can be seen as a fault.

Either way, these are much better flaws than "obsesses over one person to a creepy degree" because it's WAY more relatable and isn't horrendously disturbing to watch. Also, it's more varied. There's a lot more to 2k3 Don than 2k12 Don. 2k3 Don would probably be appalled at this alternate version of himself, because 2k3 Don respected women for their minds, not their bodies. Which is what everyone should be doing, and what I would want kids looking up to.

I've gone over Leonardo's flaws before, and they're way more obvious. He is too hard on himself, expects perfection, and expects to always be in charge. He can get wrapped up in his own problems to the point where he forgets that he doesn't have to do this alone. He places all the responsibilities of his brothers on his own shoulders, and it bites at him. And his judgement is NOT always the best. Do I seriously need to keep bringing up the fact that he almost sided with the Shredder? OR the several-episode-long arc of self-pity and eventual self-discovery? Leonardo grows into being a more well-rounded fighter, but he has to work damn hard to get there.


I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm criticising this show for my own reasons. If you know I call myself the TMNT 2k12 Hate Machine [capitalise that! it's a title! :P] then you should also know that I'm writing a long-term project about the turtles. I criticise so I can improve MYSELF as a writer, and I mention flaws [in the writing, not the characters!] repeatedly so I know not to make those mistakes myself. It's in my best interest to stay here. Going on some sort of internet tirade to "convince people to my side" would be a waste of time, because people on the internet don't listen. I mean, look at me. I call myself a Hate Machine. I don't take it seriously. Why are you?

1) You do not have any statistics on hand that things like Twilight lead to sexual assault. I think it sucks, mind you, but the fact that much of the female populace disagrees proves that yours isn't the only opinion. Accept it.
2) You do not need to SUBJECT US to your tirades to help you be a better writer; use a damned journal. And if you really aren't trying to convert us, then why the shell are you just repeating the same argument over and over to people who obviously don't agree? How about you stop "preparing" to write the fanfic with your incessant bitching, and just go write the damn thing instead?
3) I may be crossing the line here, but if you bring up doge, then you're damned as a writer anyway so far as I'm concerned.

It is blatantly obvious that your argument has nothing to stand on but slippery slope logic, and you blame the media excessively for people doing what is in many of our natures to do. We psychoanalize the ones we love; get used to it. A chart may be creepy to you, but it is, in fact, a hyperbolic representation of the actual dilemmas men go through about how to approach a girl in a way that isn't scary to them. And as others have said, Don has matured since that point.

I really want to know, how would you have done it "better"? Is there any way at all they could have had Donatello crush on April that doesn't offend you?

[BabyTurtles]

I really want to know, how would you have done it "better"? Is there any way at all they could have had Donatello crush on April that doesn't offend you?

I don't know about Netkeeper....but

if they gave April a little more voice in the whole love triangle thing and made Donnie not so focused on April, then I'd probably be cool with it. :)

also let April interact with the other turtles a lot more please! XD When she's only shown with Donnie...it makes it seem like the writers only think the romance is important...not April herself.

[Konchadunga]

That is a much more respectable position than just "Obsession is bad; m'kay?"

[Netkeeper]

1) You do not have any statistics on hand that things like Twilight lead to sexual assault. I think it sucks, mind you, but the fact that much of the female populace disagrees proves that yours isn't the only opinion. Accept it.
I can't explain why some people like Twilight. I really cannot. But it doesn't change the fact that behaviours like those lead to sexual assault, because that's what goes through their heads. Like, if you use your brain, you can easily come to the same conclusion.

2) You do not need to SUBJECT US to your tirades to help you be a better writer; use a damned journal. And if you really aren't trying to convert us, then why the shell are you just repeating the same argument over and over to people who obviously don't agree? How about you stop "preparing" to write the fanfic with your incessant bitching, and just go write the damn thing instead?
3) I may be crossing the line here, but if you bring up doge, then you're damned as a writer anyway so far as I'm concerned.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbv81q6ceS1r3zat8.gif
I can't believe how serious every word of that drivel is. Talking with myself and debating with myself isn't going to make me a better writer! Shoving myself into conversation with people who are unlikely to share my views is! Opposition helps refine your views, and you can learn a lot from hearing an outside perspective. I've learned a LOT during the time I've been posting here. I love it!

How about you stop "preparing" to write the fanfic with your incessant bitching, and just go write the damn thing instead?
http://i.imgur.com/mEj3CTn.png
Unfortunately, little do you know my little project already contains approximately 18296 words.

A chart may be creepy to you, but it is, in fact, a hyperbolic representation of the actual dilemmas men go through about how to approach a girl in a way that isn't scary to them.
No, it really is not. I don't make charts trying to turn "no's" into "yeses". Do you know how to approach anyone you find attractive? You talk to them like they are any other human being on this Earth. Wow. So difficult. And if you have feelings for that person, you tell them "I think I have romantic feelings for you". Again, this isn't difficult. All you have to do is be up front and honest, which appears to be a concept a lot of people have trouble understanding.

I really want to know, how would you have done it "better"? Is there any way at all they could have had Donatello crush on April that doesn't offend you?
I absolutely would have done it better if I wanted to write something like that, but the fact stands that I have no interest in writing a Donatello/April crush, and I have no interest in writing Donatello with a puppy crush at all. I tried it once. It was stupid.

But to humour you, I'd set things up in a way where April is well established before any romantic feelings start showing. It's important to display what each half of a potential couple is like independently, and as friends, before any crushes enter the picture. This mistake was made in episode number one of TMNT 2012: Donatello is already lovestruck and nobody even knows what her name is. That is god awful writing.

Donatello is an intellectual character. Writing him with a crush isn't difficult, but it isn't going to be incredibly obvious, either. His hints need to be subtle, and they need to be given an intellectual, not a physical, basis. Showing April being interested in mathematics or computers, or a teenage girl with an ambition to make good grades, would be a good step in the direction of having him develop a crush that makes sense. He would show admiration for mind, not body. A strong, self-assured girl that has a good wit would be a nice fit for 2k12 Donatello, but I'm also of the opinion that fellow geniuses fit him nicely as well [like 2k3 April].

This is the type of thing that would develop slowly for him, assuming that Donatello is even the first one to start feeling anything to begin with. April's feelings are equally as important, but in order to write the development well, adjustments to her character would also be necessary. She'd have to be given a lot more spotlight. This teen April would have worked wonderfully in centre-stage, main protagonist territory, imo, but it doesn't necessarily have to go that far for it to be relevant to show what April is like and what her life outside the turtles revolves around, because it sure as hell don't revolve around the turtles and it shouldn't. When April is aged down so she is the same age as the turtles, we're missing an opportunity to give her the relateable role, the "average kid that is probably watching the show right now" role.

If it were me, I'd have spent season one displaying the characters independently and working as teams, showing their platonic dynamics with each other, then come season two if any crush was going to develop it'd happen then. And it would be slow and out of focus. Even as the crush grows, it would not be the main focus of either character involved, and it would not be the driving force behind every single interaction the two characters had, because at that point there would be more to them than "one is crushing on the other lmao", there would be an already-existent platonic dynamic that continues to grow.

[BubblyShell22]

I think a lot of you are looking into this too deeply. As latmat said, the chart was more about the possibilities Don had about spending time with April and the scenarios in which it could happen. He even talked about the things he'd do if said scenario were to occur including helping her to study for a test and do her homework. Not stalking behavior to me. If he was REALLY obsessed to that point, he'd be peeking into her room at night or finding ways to get her to kiss him. None of that has happened, so I don't see it as being creepy at all.

And April isn't voicing anything because it probably doesn't bother her or she's too confused to know what to say. If it was bothering her, I'm sure she'd say something, and she kind of has in some episodes anyway. She probably finds the whole thing sweet, and she seems to be rejecting Casey more by bringing Irma along because she just doesn't like him in that way as of yet.

And for the record, NK, I am a woman who likes Twilight because the story is interesting, especially the spin Meyer puts on vampires and werewolves in her world. Yeah, Edward is definitely creepy at times, but Bella calls him out on said creepiness and is even upset when she learns he's been watching her sleep. So, there you go.

[victory_angel]

I don't know about Netkeeper....but

if they gave April a little more voice in the whole love triangle thing and made Donnie not so focused on April, then I'd probably be cool with it. :)

also let April interact with the other turtles a lot more please! XD When she's only shown with Donnie...it makes it seem like the writers only think the romance is important...not April herself.

I don't know about other peoples views. But the way I'm seeing things is that the triangle between Donnie/April/Casey is being set up as a mirror to the triangle that happened between Hamato Yoshi/Teng Shen/Oroku Saki.

As it was mentioned Splinter and Shredder were best friends but their love for the same woman put a wedge between them. Teng Shen chose Splinter as her husband, but Oroku Saki for whatever reason could not accept it so he chose to let his jealousy consume him and he lashed out at his former friend and accused him of taking Teng Shen away from him. In their dispute over her, they lost sight of Teng Shen as a person and saw her more as a possession.

It was like Teng Shen had no voice or opinion over what was going on. She was just a prize to be won.

With Splinter's lesson about about teaching Donnie to like 'Falling Down' yes the main lesson was to remind Donnie he couldn't force April to accept him, and that it was her choice if she wanted to be with him. But I firmly believe underlying that lesson, Splinter was derailing Donatello from inadvertently stumbling down the same mistakes that Splinter and Shredder have made in the past.

And as the triangle continues, it is likely we will see echos of Splinter's dispute with the Shredder in the ways Donnie and Casey react to each other.

At this point it's easy to assume that Donnie is playing the roll of Hamato Yoshi and Casey is Shredder. And things seem to be playing out with a what if scenario of "What if Teng Shen had loved Oroku Saki more?"

One fan fic I have written goes by the title of "Learn to Let her Go (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9410675/1/Learn-to-let-her-go)" In the fic, Donnie approaches Splinter and asks what he would have done if Teng Shen had chosen the Shredder as her husband? And Splinter simply answers that he would have done the honorable thing and accepted her choice.

And people on FF.net have responded by telling me they hope a story in a similar vain is told in the Nick Version.

There has been some moments where it has seemed Donnie knows he's more or less lost any chance of having anything beyond friendship with April.

In Target: April O'Neil-When he sees April talking to Casey at the ice rink, the look on his face just screams that he knows he's lost her.

In "Of Rat's and Men" April grieves for Casey when he gets dragged off into the sewers.

In Wormquake: When Casey is devoured by that Krathatrogon April also clings to Donnie in grief.

In both these scenario's Donnie does feel bad about what had happened to Casey. Because rival or not, he knows Casey Jones is someone important in April's life. And he would have to be a real bastard to take any pleasure in his rivals demise.

Wrath of Tiger Claw, the first thing April does when she sees Casey is she runs to him in concern. Donnie doesn't say or do anything regarding this. And so it will be safe to assume that whatever the situation is with the Music Box. It was more then likely final moment where Donnie is letting April know what is in his heart regarding her, but her reaction to it he interprets as she didn't return his feelings. So his talk with her was his way of saying "I have accepted you like Casey. I'm just a mutant so I don't matter."

And April kissing him was her way of saying "I haven't decided yet," with the "My Mutant" response being her way of saying "You may be a mutant, but your a mutant that matters to me."

It regards to the D/A/C triangle. Both Donnie and Casey can fit in the roles of Splinter and Shredder.

If Donnie is in the role of Splinter and Casey is in the role of Shredder. Then things could possibly be a what if the out come was different, what if Splinter was the jilted suitor?

Or a "What is likely to happen situation" it could be the direct mirror where Casey becomes the jerk because he couldn't accept that April has chosen someone else.

If Casey however is the role of Splinter, and Donnie in the role of Shredder, then it could be a this is what could have happened scenario.

Which would be a where Donnie obsessiveness over April makes him the jerk but when things come to a head we realizes the person he's really hurting is April and it's only then he backs off.

And then there is the "what should have happened?" Where April does voice where she stands on the situation and that she is not a prize to be won. At this time both Donnie and Casey matter to her and if one of them is gone it's like part of her dies with them.

I know I could make a reference to Twilight and Bella's choice between Edward and Jacob.

After all with Edward she would have immortality, but she would be essentially for all intents dead. While with Jacob it is mentioned that she would live longer then a normal mortal person and she would be able to have a relatively normal life and have children and such.

With April however, her thoughts are not on what she could gain in the relationship with either boy, but rather who has her trust the most. Which makes Casey and Donnie be more comparable to Gale and Peeta from Hunger Games.

I mean with Katniss, Gale represents the world she knows. She and Gale were the children of coal minors, they lost their fathers in mining accidents and Gale would become a coal minor when they grew up. So aside from having a desire to risk their freedom by seeing if they could truly escape and learn to escape the tyranny of the Capital. They feel they have a duty to help provide for their families and the people of their district which is why they never leave.

Then she encounters Peeta. Peeta is a boy she sort of knows, but not well as he comes from a different life style then she does. She has no reason to trust him because they would be forced to kill each other in the arena if the other Tributes don't do that already. And when Peeta tells the Capital and the rest of the districts that he is love with her, she assumes that is just so they could get more sympathy. It's only later that she learns that his feelings are genuine and he upset that she assumed he made that up. However he later apologizes and says he was wrong to expect that she would know his feelings were real.


Casey is comparable to Gale because even though April doesn't know him as well as she knows Donnie. He is a representation of everything she knows to be normal in her life. And in previous incarnations it is pretty much a given that April and Casey would end up together.

Donnie however is like Peeta because is from a life style that April isn't quite as familiar with. But the more she does get to know him and his brothers, the more she is able to trust and understand them as people.

[victory_angel]

This mistake was made in episode number one of TMNT 2012: Donatello is already lovestruck and nobody even knows what her name is. That is god awful writing.


Look at Les Misérables one of the relationships starts with the two lovers bumping into each other and neither one knows who the other is. And that story is considered to be one of the greatest novels of the 19th century.

Donatello is an intellectual character. Writing him with a crush isn't difficult, but it isn't going to be incredibly obvious, either. His hints need to be subtle, and they need to be given an intellectual, not a physical, basis. Showing April being interested in mathematics or computers, or a teenage girl with an ambition to make good grades, would be a good step in the direction of having him develop a crush that makes sense.

Would you have prefer to have Raph be the one who had the Crush on April? Because when Ciro was originally pitching his vision for TMNT he wanted to have Raph and April together as they would bond over their love of Art. And in that version April was going to be the central focus character not the title characters.

[JTH]

Look at Les Misérables one of the relationships starts with the two lovers bumping into each other and neither one knows who the other is. And that story is considered to be one of the greatest novels of the 19th century.

Let's go ahead and throw in Cinderella, Aladdin, and Phantom of the Opera while we're at it.

Two of which are Disney movies and the other this show seems to be following closely in terms of essence of story, and all are wonderful written stories that followed that notice of falling in love with someone before even knowing who they were.

I really wish people would do their homework before they hit "post".

[BabyTurtles]

I don't know about other peoples views. But the way I'm seeing things is that the triangle between Donnie/April/Casey is being set up as a mirror to the triangle that happened between Hamato Yoshi/Teng Shen/Oroku Saki.

As it was mentioned Splinter and Shredder were best friends but their love for the same woman put a wedge between them. Teng Shen chose Splinter as her husband, but Oroku Saki for whatever reason could not accept it so he chose to let his jealousy consume him and he lashed out at his former friend and accused him of taking Teng Shen away from him. In their dispute over her, they lost sight of Teng Shen as a person and saw her more as a possession.

It was like Teng Shen had no voice or opinion over what was going on. She was just a prize to be won.

With Splinter's lesson about about teaching Donnie to like 'Falling Down' yes the main lesson was to remind Donnie he couldn't force April to accept him, and that it was her choice if she wanted to be with him. But I firmly believe underlying that lesson, Splinter was derailing Donatello from inadvertently stumbling down the same mistakes that Splinter and Shredder have made in the past.

And as the triangle continues, it is likely we will see echos of Splinter's dispute with the Shredder in the ways Donnie and Casey react to each other.

At this point it's easy to assume that Donnie is playing the roll of Hamato Yoshi and Casey is Shredder. And things seem to be playing out with a what if scenario of "What if Teng Shen had loved Oroku Saki more?"

One fan fic I have written goes by the title of "Learn to Let her Go (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9410675/1/Learn-to-let-her-go)" In the fic, Donnie approaches Splinter and asks what he would have done if Teng Shen had chosen the Shredder as her husband? And Splinter simply answers that he would have done the honorable thing and accepted her choice.

And people on FF.net have responded by telling me they hope a story in a similar vain is told in the Nick Version.

There has been some moments where it has seemed Donnie knows he's more or less lost any chance of having anything beyond friendship with April.

In Target: April O'Neil-When he sees April talking to Casey at the ice rink, the look on his face just screams that he knows he's lost her.

In "Of Rat's and Men" April grieves for Casey when he gets dragged off into the sewers.

In Wormquake: When Casey is devoured by that Krathatrogon April also clings to Donnie in grief.

In both these scenario's Donnie does feel bad about what had happened to Casey. Because rival or not, he knows Casey Jones is someone important in April's life. And he would have to be a real bastard to take any pleasure in his rivals demise.

Wrath of Tiger Claw, the first thing April does when she sees Casey is she runs to him in concern. Donnie doesn't say or do anything regarding this. And so it will be safe to assume that whatever the situation is with the Music Box. It was more then likely final moment where Donnie is letting April know what is in his heart regarding her, but her reaction to it he interprets as she didn't return his feelings. So his talk with her was his way of saying "I have accepted you like Casey. I'm just a mutant so I don't matter."

And April kissing him was her way of saying "I haven't decided yet," with the "My Mutant" response being her way of saying "You may be a mutant, but your a mutant that matters to me."

It regards to the D/A/C triangle. Both Donnie and Casey can fit in the roles of Splinter and Shredder.

If Donnie is in the role of Splinter and Casey is in the role of Shredder. Then things could possibly be a what if the out come was different, what if Splinter was the jilted suitor?

Or a "What is likely to happen situation" it could be the direct mirror where Casey becomes the jerk because he couldn't accept that April has chosen someone else.

If Casey however is the role of Splinter, and Donnie in the role of Shredder, then it could be a this is what could have happened scenario.

Which would be a where Donnie obsessiveness over April makes him the jerk but when things come to a head we realizes the person he's really hurting is April and it's only then he backs off.

And then there is the "what should have happened?" Where April does voice where she stands on the situation and that she is not a prize to be won. At this time both Donnie and Casey matter to her and if one of them is gone it's like part of her dies with them.

I know I could make a reference to Twilight and Bella's choice between Edward and Jacob.

After all with Edward she would have immortality, but she would be essentially for all intents dead. While with Jacob it is mentioned that she would live longer then a normal mortal person and she would be able to have a relatively normal life and have children and such.

With April however, her thoughts are not on what she could gain in the relationship with either boy, but rather who has her trust the most. Which makes Casey and Donnie be more comparable to Gale and Peeta from Hunger Games.

I mean with Katniss, Gale represents the world she knows. She and Gale were the children of coal minors, they lost their fathers in mining accidents and Gale would become a coal minor when they grew up. So aside from having a desire to risk their freedom by seeing if they could truly escape and learn to escape the tyranny of the Capital. They feel they have a duty to help provide for their families and the people of their district which is why they never leave.

Then she encounters Peeta. Peeta is a boy she sort of knows, but not well as he comes from a different life style then she does. She has no reason to trust him because they would be forced to kill each other in the arena if the other Tributes don't do that already. And when Peeta tells the Capital and the rest of the districts that he is love with her, she assumes that is just so they could get more sympathy. It's only later that she learns that his feelings are genuine and he upset that she assumed he made that up. However he later apologizes and says he was wrong to expect that she would know his feelings were real.


Casey is comparable to Gale because even though April doesn't know him as well as she knows Donnie. He is a representation of everything she knows to be normal in her life. And in previous incarnations it is pretty much a given that April and Casey would end up together.

Donnie however is like Peeta because is from a life style that April isn't quite as familiar with. But the more she does get to know him and his brothers, the more she is able to trust and understand them as people.

that's cool...but if they could just tone down that subplot a notch or three that'd be nice. :ohwell:

[kolaida]

I think a lot of you are looking into this too deeply. As latmat said, the chart was more about the possibilities Don had about spending time with April and the scenarios in which it could happen. He even talked about the things he'd do if said scenario were to occur including helping her to study for a test and do her homework. Not stalking behavior to me. If he was REALLY obsessed to that point, he'd be peeking into her room at night or finding ways to get her to kiss him. None of that has happened, so I don't see it as being creepy at all.

And April isn't voicing anything because it probably doesn't bother her or she's too confused to know what to say. If it was bothering her, I'm sure she'd say something, and she kind of has in some episodes anyway. She probably finds the whole thing sweet, and she seems to be rejecting Casey more by bringing Irma along because she just doesn't like him in that way as of yet.

And for the record, NK, I am a woman who likes Twilight because the story is interesting, especially the spin Meyer puts on vampires and werewolves in her world. Yeah, Edward is definitely creepy at times, but Bella calls him out on said creepiness and is even upset when she learns he's been watching her sleep. So, there you go.

Yeah, I think it's being looked being looked into a little too deeply. It was off putting at first but I feel it's toned down a lot. Donnie has grown a lot and the chart episode was awhile ago (and it's just part of how he thinks- if I recall right I think his brothers said something about it or rolled their eyes or something). Also, I think this has more to do with social awkwardness than with OCD. Most people with OCD tend to have other anxiety disorders.

I think April might not know what to say because if she hurts Donnie too badly, she might lose her friendship with all the turtles and Splinter. Not too mention allies that can help her. And she seems to enjoy Donnie's company, she just might not be into it that way and it would be a bigger obstacle than what some girls would face because it's basically saying, "yeah, I don't like you that way because you're a turtle." And April probably doesn't want to say that. And who knows, maybe by the end she'll be into it but she seems to be digging Casey. I'm glad it wasn't Raph and I'm also glad April wasn't the character the story centered on.

And for what's it worth I'm not much of a Twilight fan (more True Blood books here) but I can see why some like it. Edward is creepy as all get out sometimes-- he is a vampire-- but Bella usually does say something when she thinks it's too far. More tolerant than me, but I'm just one girl and other girls dig guys being that into them.

[Powder]

This wouldn't even be an issue if not for Tumblr & fedora culture. :tlol:

[DarthEmpress]

It'd be nice to know how April feels about Don and Casey, but that's obviously asking too much.

[Coola Yagami]

Just let them do what they want. It's already scripted and drawn out and whatever we say won't make them scrap everything and rewrite. Let's just watch and see what they have in store.

[BabyTurtles]

It'd be nice to know how April feels about Don and Casey, but that's obviously asking too much.

that's really the main thing I want at this point.

[Netkeeper]

Look at Les Misérables one of the relationships starts with the two lovers bumping into each other and neither one knows who the other is. And that story is considered to be one of the greatest novels of the 19th century.

Would you have prefer to have Raph be the one who had the Crush on April? Because when Ciro was originally pitching his vision for TMNT he wanted to have Raph and April together as they would bond over their love of Art. And in that version April was going to be the central focus character not the title characters.
So this post and your long post above it reference media I'm not entirely familiar with. Luckily I was talking with people that did [and by people I mean my brother], so I decided to do a recording of all of us discussing it. You can call it a comprehensive response or a jumbled mess, doesn't matter to me. You don't even have to listen to it. I wouldn't take it seriously.

Apologies for bad mixing. Didn't bother to test before recording. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0rj0N78liHD)

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Look at Les Misérables one of the relationships starts with the two lovers bumping into each other and neither one knows who the other is. And that story is considered to be one of the greatest novels of the 19th century.



Thank you! I could name probably half a dozen other novels in that vein as well, and I wouldn't consider any of them "crappy writing." There's nothing wrong with a "love at first sight" scenario- it's one of the oldest romantic ideas in the world. What makes it a good or bad story is how it's written, and how the characters behave and grow through the course of the story. Donnie has grown beyond the "first sight" stage, and is now very possibly fully in love. (Personally, I'd consider it still borderline infatuation, but he has shown some signs of it being deeper than that.)


Let's go ahead and throw in Cinderella, Aladdin, and Phantom of the Opera while we're at it.

Two of which are Disney movies and the other this show seems to be following closely in terms of essence of story, and all are wonderful written stories that followed that notice of falling in love with someone before even knowing who they were.

I really wish people would do their homework before they hit "post".


Agreed. Technically, Cinderella and Aladdin were fairy tales long before they were Disney movies, but the idea is the same. Heck, I'd go so far as to include pretty much ANY fairy tale or legend in with these. They almost always have two people fall in love without even knowing each other.

As for Phantom, this version of TMNT has some very striking similarities to that situation, with Donnie in the place of Erik, of course. Which I suppose would make Casey Raoul. Except in this case, the "Phantom" isn't a homicidal recluse who is bent on killing anyone who pisses him off or torturing innocent victims by whatever bizarre means he can come up with. (Seriously- read the actual book sometime. The play's got NOTHING on the original story!! And my fave version of the story movie-wise is the Robert Englund film. It was dark and disturbing, much like the book itself.) Donnie as "Phantom" is simply a lonely, awkward boy who has feelings for the first girl he ever encounters, but is afraid to open up due to his insecurity regarding the fact that he is a mutant.

[Leo656]

I'm only intimately familiar with about half of the stories people are discussing, but just for my two cents, I have no problem with shipping, or seemingly mismatched pairings, but as far as the "Love at first sight" thing, it's a product of a simpler time that kind of needs to go away. Not to stir any sh*t, but it's been scientifically disproven multiple times. You can NOT fall in love at first sight. Love's a little bit more complex than, "OMG... Dat ass! I'm in LOVE!" :lol: Attraction, sure, that definitely happens, but attraction isn't love.

In ye olden days - and especially in eras and places where things like teenage weddings and arranged marriages were common - it was a convenient idea to put in people's heads, that you can find your "soul mate" immediately. It made sense then, not only for society, but also in fiction. For starters, women "back in the day" weren't encouraged, or even allowed, to actually... you know... date around, meet new people, try and sort it all out for themselves, struggle with crippling doubts and insecurity... any of that stuff that happens in real life, y'know? For ages, both in fiction and real life, women were told, "Don't worry about any of that. When you meet The One, you'll just know. There'll be fireworks and rainbows shooting out of his ass, it's gonna be awesome. Love at first sight, it never fails."

Except, we're more sophisticated now than we were even 50 years ago, and we all know that's all BS. We've completely narrowed "love at first sight" down to, more or less, a primitive human urge to breed, and it fades incredibly fast. So, since we know it's not real, I'm less accepting of it in newer fiction than I am in stuff like, older Disney films, for example. I can handle how they told those stories back then, as a product of their time, and to be honest, they're charming. But we're past that as a species now. I *still* run into chicks - grown women - who swear they're gonna find a "Prince Charming" one day, and it's going to be just like a movie. I don't have any explanation for this, as it's completely asinine. And I can only assume it persists because some people still buy into these *highly fictional* explorations of "love" and relationships.

So, no, for me, explaining Donnie's crush - and its intensity, and how committed he is to it and how much of his time it occupies - by saying, "well, other great stories have worked the 'love at first sight' gimmick too, so, y'know, all's fair," doesn't really wash. It's an outdated concept that has no place in modern society, or storytelling, except to make the character who believes in it - Donnie, in this case - to look like a complete toolbox. It is kinda funny how someone so scientifically-minded as him could become so irrationally emotional over anything, but I'd argue his character isn't any *better* for it. It doesn't make him in any way endearing. I'unno. It just makes him seem like an irrational, needy, emotionally-desperate loony toon.

[BubblyShell22]

I hear you there, Leo. I don't believe in love at first sight either and never did. When I met my BF, we were just friends at first, and it just sort of blossomed from there over time. I never expected us to get together or be in a relationship and was just happy being around him and vice-versa. Then it just sort of happened and we've been together almost eleven years. But at the time, I just wasn't looking for it or expecting anything to come of it, and it's worked out. I think the problem is that people are in a rush to have a relationship because they believe that it's the norm in society to be married and have kids at a certain age. However, it doesn't have to be that way if you don't want it to be. I'm not going to get married or have kids because I just don't want to and don't have to. People can judge me all they want, but it's not something I want for myself because sometimes it doesn't always work out, and I don't want to go through that. I'd rather just live in common law and leave it at that.

But as for Donnie, you have to remember that he's only been exposed to love through television, so it makes sense that he'd believe in that after seeing April. You can be smart in some areas, but it doesn't mean you're smart in others. I've met people like that who are very intelligent book wise but who aren't so adept at relationships or know how to handle them, and that's okay. They eventually learn, and Donnie will, too. I guess I'm just the type to excuse it in Donnie because of how he's lived for most of his life and not really knowing the ins and outs of the world.

[Netkeeper]

I'm only intimately familiar with about half of the stories people are discussing, but just for my two cents, I have no problem with shipping, or seemingly mismatched pairings, but as far as the "Love at first sight" thing, it's a product of a simpler time that kind of needs to go away. Not to stir any sh*t, but it's been scientifically disproven multiple times. You can NOT fall in love at first sight. Love's a little bit more complex than, "OMG... Dat ass! I'm in LOVE!" :lol: Attraction, sure, that definitely happens, but attraction isn't love.

In ye olden days - and especially in eras and places where things like teenage weddings and arranged marriages were common - it was a convenient idea to put in people's heads, that you can find your "soul mate" immediately. It made sense then, not only for society, but also in fiction. For starters, women "back in the day" weren't encouraged, or even allowed, to actually... you know... date around, meet new people, try and sort it all out for themselves, struggle with crippling doubts and insecurity... any of that stuff that happens in real life, y'know? For ages, both in fiction and real life, women were told, "Don't worry about any of that. When you meet The One, you'll just know. There'll be fireworks and rainbows shooting out of his ass, it's gonna be awesome. Love at first sight, it never fails."

Except, we're more sophisticated now than we were even 50 years ago, and we all know that's all BS. We've completely narrowed "love at first sight" down to, more or less, a primitive human urge to breed, and it fades incredibly fast. So, since we know it's not real, I'm less accepting of it in newer fiction than I am in stuff like, older Disney films, for example. I can handle how they told those stories back then, as a product of their time, and to be honest, they're charming. But we're past that as a species now. I *still* run into chicks - grown women - who swear they're gonna find a "Prince Charming" one day, and it's going to be just like a movie. I don't have any explanation for this, as it's completely asinine. And I can only assume it persists because some people still buy into these *highly fictional* explorations of "love" and relationships.

So, no, for me, explaining Donnie's crush - and its intensity, and how committed he is to it and how much of his time it occupies - by saying, "well, other great stories have worked the 'love at first sight' gimmick too, so, y'know, all's fair," doesn't really wash. It's an outdated concept that has no place in modern society, or storytelling, except to make the character who believes in it - Donnie, in this case - to look like a complete toolbox. It is kinda funny how someone so scientifically-minded as him could become so irrationally emotional over anything, but I'd argue his character isn't any *better* for it. It doesn't make him in any way endearing. I'unno. It just makes him seem like an irrational, needy, emotionally-desperate loony toon.
Another amazing post by Leo656. Love every bit of it.

[saintsaucey]

I weep for this cynical jaded world.

[Leo656]

I will grant that in this show, it's a little more understandable given how sheltered and generally immature these TMNT are, but that's another issue I have with this show. I know some people swear that they're "finally acting like teenagers", but I disagree vehemently. Maybe it's a regional thing. Based on people I knew, in the area I live, most teens acted more like the 2K3 TMNT, whereas the Nick Turtles act like they're 12. I mean, I knew a *few* kids Freshman year who were a little like Mikey, but they were on a sh*tload of drugs.

I get that the decision to make these Turtles skew younger is just a choice, and that it's apparently popular with lot of folks, but I prefer my Turtles a little bit less immature. I "get" how this version of Donnie almost justifies the obsessive, needy nature, but in the end, it's a choice to portray him as being that young and immature, and since it doesn't help the character, I can't say it's a choice I agree with.

I'unno, diff'rent strokes. I don't "dislike" any of the Turtles in any incarnation, but Donnie is usually my "least favorite" to begin with, and sadly, on this show, I just can't stand him. :ohwell:

[JTH]

I will grant that in this show, it's a little more understandable given how sheltered and generally immature these TMNT are, but that's another issue I have with this show. I know some people swear that they're "finally acting like teenagers", but I disagree vehemently. Maybe it's a regional thing. Based on people I knew, in the area I live, most teens acted more like the 2K3 TMNT, whereas the Nick Turtles act like they're 12. I mean, I knew a *few* kids Freshman year who were a little like Mikey, but they were on a sh*tload of drugs.

It's a different era, when we were kids, we got spanked.

The teens these days got time outs, and were not properly disciplined like us. :D

[saintsaucey]

It's a different era, when we were kids, we got spanked.

The teens these days got time outs, and were not properly disciplined like us. :D

I got both...my mom asked.me once which I.wanted a spanking or a time out. I said spanking. (To get it over with) so she sent me to the corner. "It wouldn't be a punishment if you got to choose."

[Netkeeper]

I will grant that in this show, it's a little more understandable given how sheltered and generally immature these TMNT are, but that's another issue I have with this show. I know some people swear that they're "finally acting like teenagers", but I disagree vehemently. Maybe it's a regional thing. Based on people I knew, in the area I live, most teens acted more like the 2K3 TMNT, whereas the Nick Turtles act like they're 12. I mean, I knew a *few* kids Freshman year who were a little like Mikey, but they were on a sh*tload of drugs.

I get that the decision to make these Turtles skew younger is just a choice, and that it's apparently popular with lot of folks, but I prefer my Turtles a little bit less immature. I "get" how this version of Donnie almost justifies the obsessive, needy nature, but in the end, it's a choice to portray him as being that young and immature, and since it doesn't help the character, I can't say it's a choice I agree with.

I'unno, diff'rent strokes. I don't "dislike" any of the Turtles in any incarnation, but Donnie is usually my "least favorite" to begin with, and sadly, on this show, I just can't stand him. :ohwell:
You should keep talking, because everything you say is wonderful and grand and you're basically doing my job for me which makes you fantastic.

Makes me wish forums had "like" functions.

[Leo656]

I got both...my mom asked.me once which I.wanted a spanking or a time out. I said spanking. (To get it over with) so she sent me to the corner. "It wouldn't be a punishment if you got to choose."


:lol: ZING! Total Mom-swerve.

"You lied to me, Mom!"
"Kid, when you're old enough, you'll realize that all I DID was lie to you from the day you were born until the time you got out of the house. That's the entire Parental Job Description: ALWAYS be deceitful with your kids! Now f*ck off, Mommy's drinkin' show is on." :lol:

You should keep talking, because everything you say is wonderful and grand and you're basically doing my job for me which makes you fantastic.

Makes me wish forums had "like" functions.

Sometimes it's tough to balance being incredibly good-looking with the mutant power of being right about absolutely everything, along with carrying these buckets and buckets of grace and humility. But, this is the life I've chosen. "GOD OF THUNDAAAAAAAAAAHH!" :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

I'unno. It just makes him seem like an irrational, needy, emotionally-desperate loony toon.

In other words... A teenager?

[Leo656]

Eh, not all of 'em.

[Netkeeper]

Sometimes it's tough to balance being incredibly good-looking with the mutant power of being right about absolutely everything, along with carrying these buckets and buckets of grace and humility. But, this is the life I've chosen. "GOD OF THUNDAAAAAAAAAAHH!" :lol:
I know how it is. Let us celebrate with a feast to our "always being right"dom.

[Konchadunga]

I can't explain why some people like Twilight. I really cannot. But it doesn't change the fact that behaviours like those lead to sexual assault, because that's what goes through their heads. Like, if you use your brain, you can easily come to the same conclusion.

Sorry, no. What leads to sexual assault is a lack of ethics and regard for other people. Simply having a boner for someone and wanting them to want you does not lead to sexual assault anymore than being poor leads to monetary theft, or being hungry leads to food theft. You really need a lot more to stand on than "use your brain" drivel.

Obsessive behavior that someone doesn't believe a girl is seeing is very different from the sort made right near them; let alone from actual harm. Donatello is not thrusting his pelvis at April and yelling "Schwing," and this show is not condoning such behavior. I'm not defending the writing past a point, but there's absolutely nothing in it that suggests Don thinks assault is okay, or that kids should think it.

I can't believe how serious every word of that drivel is. Talking with myself and debating with myself isn't going to make me a better writer! Shoving myself into conversation with people who are unlikely to share my views is! Opposition helps refine your views, and you can learn a lot from hearing an outside perspective. I've learned a LOT during the time I've been posting here. I love it!

While that is potentially true, have, you specifically, actually learned anything? Tell me one time you've actually "refined" your views based on feedback. It seems to me you just keep digging in and repeating them when they're contested.

Unfortunately, little do you know my little project already contains approximately 18296 words.

Well, somehow I'm not surprised, but my previous point still stands. If you're not really learning anything from dialectic, why do it?

No, it really is not. I don't make charts trying to turn "no's" into "yeses". Do you know how to approach anyone you find attractive? You talk to them like they are any other human being on this Earth. Wow. So difficult. And if you have feelings for that person, you tell them "I think I have romantic feelings for you". Again, this isn't difficult. All you have to do is be up front and honest, which appears to be a concept a lot of people have trouble understanding.


Agree with most of that, but not the romantic feelings part. That shouldn't be in any initial conversations, even if it's true. That sort of honesty runs contrary to treating someone like they are any other person, and makes one sound shallow.

I absolutely would have done it better if I wanted to write something like that, but the fact stands that I have no interest in writing a Donatello/April crush, and I have no interest in writing Donatello with a puppy crush at all. I tried it once. It was stupid.

But to humour you, I'd set things up in a way where April is well established before any romantic feelings start showing. It's important to display what each half of a potential couple is like independently, and as friends, before any crushes enter the picture. This mistake was made in episode number one of TMNT 2012: Donatello is already lovestruck and nobody even knows what her name is. That is god awful writing.

Donatello is an intellectual character. Writing him with a crush isn't difficult, but it isn't going to be incredibly obvious, either. His hints need to be subtle, and they need to be given an intellectual, not a physical, basis. Showing April being interested in mathematics or computers, or a teenage girl with an ambition to make good grades, would be a good step in the direction of having him develop a crush that makes sense. He would show admiration for mind, not body. A strong, self-assured girl that has a good wit would be a nice fit for 2k12 Donatello, but I'm also of the opinion that fellow geniuses fit him nicely as well [like 2k3 April].

This is the type of thing that would develop slowly for him, assuming that Donatello is even the first one to start feeling anything to begin with. April's feelings are equally as important, but in order to write the development well, adjustments to her character would also be necessary. She'd have to be given a lot more spotlight. This teen April would have worked wonderfully in centre-stage, main protagonist territory, imo, but it doesn't necessarily have to go that far for it to be relevant to show what April is like and what her life outside the turtles revolves around, because it sure as hell don't revolve around the turtles and it shouldn't. When April is aged down so she is the same age as the turtles, we're missing an opportunity to give her the relateable role, the "average kid that is probably watching the show right now" role.

If it were me, I'd have spent season one displaying the characters independently and working as teams, showing their platonic dynamics with each other, then come season two if any crush was going to develop it'd happen then. And it would be slow and out of focus. Even as the crush grows, it would not be the main focus of either character involved, and it would not be the driving force behind every single interaction the two characters had, because at that point there would be more to them than "one is crushing on the other lmao", there would be an already-existent platonic dynamic that continues to grow.

I will agree with you in that. But just because someone is shallow doesn't mean they're evil. It does not mean they ever will be evil. It's more than anything else part of being a naive teenager. Again, I think you're looking at this in terms of encouraging things, when it started more or less along the lines of empathizing with things. They sought to play up the "Teenage" part, and they did it. I understand they're rewarding this too much, but it's still too broad a stroke to say this encourages assault.

[saintsaucey]

I like Twilight....

[Konchadunga]

I will grant that in this show, it's a little more understandable given how sheltered and generally immature these TMNT are, but that's another issue I have with this show. I know some people swear that they're "finally acting like teenagers", but I disagree vehemently. Maybe it's a regional thing. Based on people I knew, in the area I live, most teens acted more like the 2K3 TMNT, whereas the Nick Turtles act like they're 12. I mean, I knew a *few* kids Freshman year who were a little like Mikey, but they were on a sh*tload of drugs.

To be fair, I don't know of any teenagers who were as immature as 2003 Mikey, either. Say what you will of this show, but at least it plays his youth as a partial excuse; in 2003 he was truly a manchild.

I know how it is. Let us celebrate with a feast to our "always being right"dom.

Methinks this sort of ego stroking is the real reason you come on here. You truly need to get off your high horse if you're going to entertain the notion of dialectic philosophy.

[pennydreadful]

Whatever our viewpoints on the Donnie/April thing, I think it's good that we're discussing it - I mean it at least shows that we're thinking about the entertainment that we're absorbing.

And people on both sides have been putting forward some very concise and well-thought-out arguments, so kudos to you all. :)

http://31.media.tumblr.com/f73727c10be333ed1fa12fa661b84d59/tumblr_n0h8ivt3Ek1qaoc3do1_500.gif

[Netkeeper]

Sorry, no. What leads to sexual assault is a lack of ethics and regard for other people. Simply having a boner for someone and wanting them to want you does not lead to sexual assault anymore than being poor leads to monetary theft, or being hungry leads to food theft. You really need a lot more to stand on than "use your brain" drivel.

Obsessive behavior that someone doesn't believe a girl is seeing is very different from the sort made right near them; let alone from actual harm. Donatello is not thrusting his pelvis at April and yelling "Schwing," and this show is not condoning such behavior. I'm not defending the writing past a point, but there's absolutely nothing in it that suggests Don thinks assault is okay, or that kids should think it.
Donatello not being blatantly inappropriate doesn't mean anything because hardly anybody actually does that. What does happen is they obsess over the matter privately, show a complete disregard for the person's wants and desires, such as Donatello's ****ing chart, and then take action when the opportunity arises.

While we know this is a kid's show and that type of action would NEVER occur, it's important to note that some of his behaviours are still reminiscent of these thought cycles. Just because the show isn't condoning openly committing assault doesn't mean the implications don't exist; the show definitely has its moments of condoning Donnie's weird creepy obsessive behaviour, or at least playing it off as a "harmless joke" often enough. To its credit, not every time does this happen, but enough to make an increasing number of people uncomfortable. It wouldn't get too extreme because we have to hope somebody on the writing staff has more common sense than that.

It isn't "looking too deeply into things" because from my perspective, it is important to make sure you are avoiding unfortunate implications with your writing. Viewers generally want to remain comfortable with your storyline. This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

While that is potentially true, have, you specifically, actually learned anything? Tell me one time you've actually "refined" your views based on feedback. It seems to me you just keep digging in and repeating them when they're contested.
Why do I need to tell you what I've learned? Can't you just accept that I said I've learned things by being here? Of course you can't, you want to make me out to be... something. I'm not even sure what. Possibly a liar. It's hilarious, either way, and I don't even have to humour you with a list of everything I've gotten from this place.

Well, somehow I'm not surprised, but my previous point still stands. If you're not really learning anything from dialectic, why do it?
You're absolutely hilarious -- claiming I'm not learning anything directly after I said I'm learning things. Then you say you're not surprised when I tell you I've already written a novella's worth of words when you had doubts I'd been writing anything to begin with. Tell me, did you get good scores on reading comprehension exams?

Agree with most of that, but not the romantic feelings part. That shouldn't be in any initial conversations, even if it's true. That sort of honesty runs contrary to treating someone like they are any other person, and makes one sound shallow.
Wait, what? I never said anything about initial conversations. You probably don't HAVE romantic feelings for somebody if you've never even had a single conversation with them. How can you? You have no idea what your dynamic with that person actually is. What the hell? Are you just LOOKING for reasons to object to what I have to say, even if I never actually said it at all?

I will agree with you in that. But just because someone is shallow doesn't mean they're evil. It does not mean they ever [I]will be evil. It's more than anything else part of being a naive teenager. Again, I think you're looking at this in terms of encouraging things, when it started more or less along the lines of empathizing with things. They sought to play up the "Teenage" part, and they did it. I understand they're rewarding this too much, but it's still too broad a stroke to say this encourages assault.
Yep, you're looking for reasons to object to what I have to say, even if I never actually said it at all! I never said shallow characters are evil! Where did you even pull that from?

To be fair, I don't know of any teenagers who were as immature as 2003 Mikey, either. Say what you will of this show, but at least it plays his youth as a partial excuse; in 2003 he was truly a manchild.
http://38.media.tumblr.com/b5e66abb35bbd035ae769f43cb795dfe/tumblr_mvegm9KPPI1s7wrkco4_500.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/4d544a1384d64adaf188d9dffdb134d5/tumblr_mvegm9KPPI1s7wrkco5_500.gif http://37.media.tumblr.com/50254e7ea5fdb99d787453bfa97dbe65/tumblr_mvegm9KPPI1s7wrkco6_500.gif
That 2k3 Mikey!! Such a manchild, am I right!! So unintelligent, lacking emotional perception, and definitely not a talented fighter! So useless and immature. Definitely not deliberate in his upbeat, joke-loving attitude.

[And that, my friends, is called sarcasm.]

Methinks this sort of ego stroking is the real reason you come on here. You truly need to get off your high horse if you're going to entertain the notion of dialectic philosophy.
Aww, how cute, people are taking me seriously again!

[Klunk1234]

The whole "Apriltello" thing started in the 2k3 series. I also remember that scene in which April tells Donnie " I wish I could kiss you" and he responds: "Really?"

I don't know what would happen in the current series about the Donnie/ April relationship.

[ssjup81]

Whatever our viewpoints on the Donnie/April thing, I think it's good that we're discussing it - I mean it at least shows that we're thinking about the entertainment that we're absorbing.

And people on both sides have been putting forward some very concise and well-thought-out arguments, so kudos to you all. :)

http://31.media.tumblr.com/f73727c10be333ed1fa12fa661b84d59/tumblr_n0h8ivt3Ek1qaoc3do1_500.gifI agree with this and I do find some of the arguments good. You know, actual "debating". I have a problem with those who attack the poster and not the post or comes across as aggressive or have a problem with accepting that people have differing opinions and interpretations of things, so it comes across as slightly immature to me as those types come across as trying their best to be "right" as opposed to just trying to get someone to see his/her point of view on something. For the most part, the majority here haven't done that and have remained pretty civil...although, unfortunately, I did make a "personal" post in this thread which is very unlike me.

That aside, I've finally watched the most recent episode. I was wondering what you all would think of this scenario.... Donnie ending up switching minds with April as opposed to Casey? Personally, I could see him totally freaking out, too scared to do anything.

Oh and when Casey said he could give April a massage with his magic fingers, I was thinking about what Donnie would do in that situation. IMO, I feel he would try to make something that could give her a back massage because I just couldn't see him offering to do something like that himself.

[victory_angel]

That aside, I've finally watched the most recent episode. I was wondering what you all would think of this scenario.... Donnie ending up switching minds with April as opposed to Casey? Personally, I could see him totally freaking out, too scared to do anything.

Oh and when Casey said he could give April a massage with his magic fingers, I was thinking about what Donnie would do in that situation. IMO, I feel he would try to make something that could give her a back massage because I just couldn't see him offering to do something like that himself.

If that was to happen I think Donnie would have been happier if he switched minds with Casey not April. Because I can see Raph, Casey, and Mikey making cracks about he was finally in a body that suited him if he did end up in April's body. (Cause Donnie is the most likely member of the Turtles to have the fem-boy title if that was applied to them. That and Raph has called Donnie a girl in Metalhead with his "I know a marching band that needs a majorette." Comment.) I think he'd freak out a bit, but Leo and April would get him to calm down and figure out a way to reverse it.

As for the back massage, no I don't see Donnie personally giving April an actual back massage himself since that might come across as too intimate or suggestive. And yes I do know someone who has been assaulted by someone who was giving them a back massage, not to mention the reports on the news of masseurs taking advantage of female clients, and some massage parlors being used as brothels. Then again I've also been at summer camps where boys and girls have had shoulder massage trains (I.E. Guy sitting behind a girl and giving a shoulder massage, person behind them is giving them a shoulder massage, ect.) with nothing suggestive from it. And I have been in dance classes in high school where the students would give each other back messages occasionally as part of the warm up.

By and large a massage is dependent of the level of trust between the person giving the massage and the person receiving it. When Casey had suggested the massage, he was suggesting that as a friend thing. But he also partially suggested giving April a massage as a way of cozying up to her. Or that's the way I saw it.

With Donnie, he could off a shoulder massage or something at most. But I can see him offering something to help with the sore muscles like a poultice of some sort first before offering the shoulder massage.

[Refractive Reflections]

I will grant that in this show, it's a little more understandable given how sheltered and generally immature these TMNT are, but that's another issue I have with this show. I know some people swear that they're "finally acting like teenagers", but I disagree vehemently. Maybe it's a regional thing. Based on people I knew, in the area I live, most teens acted more like the 2K3 TMNT, whereas the Nick Turtles act like they're 12. I mean, I knew a *few* kids Freshman year who were a little like Mikey, but they were on a sh*tload of drugs.


It's funny how some are praising this depiction as "finally acting like teenagers", but yet when the Turtles do something immature/amateurish in fighting, some of those same people harp on the Turtles saying, "Why are they not taking it seriously? Don't they understand that ________!!!! :x" One example was with "Invasion of the Squirrelenoids" when the Turtles made light of Raph's situation, or going after Nick Mikey being dumb or insensitive.

I thought this was how "teenagers" are, right? This immature? It's a contradiction here where they want the Turtles to act rambunctious during their off-time, but yet behave seriously when things are important, like a more grown individual would behave. Hmmm, that seems to imply that there has to be a form of maturity here then, right? A discernment to know when to behave silly and when to be serious? On which emotions/reactions are appropriate in being externally expressed for a particular situation? So if those same people believe that "teenagers" can't do that, then what's to complain about the Nick Turtles behaving reckless/dumb/immature during fights and dramatic situations then? The show is simply catering to what they believe that "teenagers" apparently can not do.

...But for me, their behavior is more tween than anything else because of the lack of seriousness in those, and similar situations.

To be fair, I don't know of any teenagers who were as immature as 2003 Mikey, either. Say what you will of this show, but at least it plays his youth as a partial excuse; in 2003 he was truly a manchild.


I would agree with that. The mere fact that both 2K3 Raph and Nick Raph feel compelled and both smack their respective Mikeys upside the head a lot, displays how immature and/or dumb both Mikeys are.

[BubblyShell22]

I think this show has a pretty good balance of when the Turtles take things seriously and when they don't. But I liked the whole thing with their first fight with Shredder in that they became too overconfident and felt they could take him, but then they realized that they really weren't ready for it after they got their shells handed to them. To me, this is how teenagers act because they sometimes act that they know everything and can handle anything when they clearly can't, and I do like when the show presents things like this. The Turtles are allowed to make mistakes, and I feel that this show presents this aspect fairly well. But again, that's just me, and I don't care if they act a little immature in battle and don't take things seriously because they're younger and still learning. That's realistic to me, and I don't complain about that at all.

As for the massage thing, my BF will sometimes offer to give me a massage, and I'll let him. I think the next time I see him, I'm going to have him massage my neck and see if that'll get rid of the headaches I have since there are certain pressure points that are supposed to relieve pain.

[Netkeeper]

I would agree with that. The mere fact that both 2K3 Raph and Nick Raph feel compelled and both smack their respective Mikeys upside the head a lot, displays how immature and/or dumb both Mikeys are.
2k3 Mikey's point






Your head

[Coola Yagami]

I think this show has a pretty good balance of when the Turtles take things seriously and when they don't. But I liked the whole thing with their first fight with Shredder in that they became too overconfident and felt they could take him, but then they realized that they really weren't ready for it after they got their shells handed to them. To me, this is how teenagers act because they sometimes act that they know everything and can handle anything when they clearly can't, and I do like when the show presents things like this. The Turtles are allowed to make mistakes, and I feel that this show presents this aspect fairly well. But again, that's just me, and I don't care if they act a little immature in battle and don't take things seriously because they're younger and still learning. That's realistic to me, and I don't complain about that at all.

As for the massage thing, my BF will sometimes offer to give me a massage, and I'll let him. I think the next time I see him, I'm going to have him massage my neck and see if that'll get rid of the headaches I have since there are certain pressure points that are supposed to relieve pain.

True but in Casey's case she isn't exactly his girlfriend... She's a girl he's trying to seduce into being his girlfriends.


Don is losing the game horribly. He's too shy to do anything while Casey tries to get his hands all over her any chance he gets.

[ssjup81]

True but in Casey's case she isn't exactly his girlfriend... She's a girl he's trying to seduce into being his girlfriends.


Don is losing the game horribly. He's too shy to do anything while Casey tries to get his hands all over her any chance he gets.Yeah, definitely. Personally, for the recent ep I felt that April under reacted and that aside, that explains Wormquake. I think some were wondering why she automatically thought it was Casey copping a feel as opposed to Donnie. He must be prone to doing so.

As for Donnie being too shy, can you really blame him? He is a mutant after all. Realistically and deep down he probably knows his chances with her are close to 0.

[JTH]

This is what a creep does...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bq240WKIIAAhX_7.jpg
I think we know who was just guilty of this... :D

[Coola Yagami]

This is what a creep does...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bq240WKIIAAhX_7.jpg
I think we know who was just guilty of this... :D

What did he do?

[Leo656]

This is what a creep does...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bq240WKIIAAhX_7.jpg
I think we know who was just guilty of this... :D

Not gonna lie, guilty as f*ck. :lol:

I'm surrounded by smokin' hotties in both of my jobs, so yeah... :lol:

[JTH]

What did he do?

Staring at a 21 year old's booty. "Nice" :D

[Coola Yagami]

Staring at a 21 year old's booty. "Nice" :D

That's not being a creep. That's just being straight. Lol. And last I checked 21 is A-OK. ;)

[Leo656]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, though. So she's 21 and he's 100. Most chicks his own age look like Shinky-Dinks left in the oven too long, why the hell should any guy limit himself to looking at females in his own "Age Bracket"? She's legally an adult, and so is he; only difference is a few Presidential administrations in between. No Foul at all.

Although, given the persistent rumors about ol' Jerry and his "preferences", it *could* be seen as creepy. Remember when he married that chick who was younger than his son? That was awesome. :lol:

[ssjup81]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, though. So she's 21 and he's 100. Most chicks his own age look like Shinky-Dinks left in the oven too long, why the hell should any guy limit himself to looking at females in his own "Age Bracket"? She's legally an adult, and so is he; only difference is a few Presidential administrations in between. No Foul at all.

Although, given the persistent rumors about ol' Jerry and his "preferences", it *could* be seen as creepy. Remember when he married that chick who was younger than his son? That was awesome. :lol:I find that terribly creepy, but that's just me. I'd never want to date a guy old enough to be my father or grandfather or great grandfather.

[JTH]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, though. So she's 21 and he's 100. Most chicks his own age look like Shinky-Dinks left in the oven too long, why the hell should any guy limit himself to looking at females in his own "Age Bracket"? She's legally an adult, and so is he; only difference is a few Presidential administrations in between. No Foul at all.

Although, given the persistent rumors about ol' Jerry and his "preferences", it *could* be seen as creepy. Remember when he married that chick who was younger than his son? That was awesome. :lol:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/990527ac698edbde2f269b6ca0dcff05/tumblr_n7nim3TtDH1s6zj4xo1_1280.png

Let's hope this isn't his real Twitter account...:lol:

[Leo656]

I find that terribly creepy, but that's just me. I'd never want to date a guy old enough to be my father or grandfather or great grandfather.

It is just you. :lol: After 18, it's all fair game. When you're 65, do you seriously think you won't find people in their 20s good-looking? There's nothing in a person's brain that only makes people your own age attractive.

Being middle-aged or older and hooking up with a girl in her 20s isn't called "creepy", it's called "Congratulations, You Win At Life." :lol:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/990527ac698edbde2f269b6ca0dcff05/tumblr_n7nim3TtDH1s6zj4xo1_1280.png

Let's hope this isn't his real Twitter account...:lol:

I don't have Twitter, so I can't say for sure, but that's definitely one of his patented "Lawler-isms", so it very well could be. I love that guy.

[victory_angel]

Yeah, definitely. Personally, for the recent ep I felt that April under reacted and that aside, that explains Wormquake.

Yeah, but also in wormquake the three of them were trying not to get noticed by the Kraang, other wise her reaction to Casey rubbing her ass would have been more pronounced.

[Coola Yagami]

I kinda think being caught or not, some guy randomly grabbing her butt would have made April jump and sock him one.

[Konchadunga]

Since this thread now seems exclusively about lust and not about Don and April, how about that plesiosaur? Am I the only one who feels really bad for him? I mean sure; he's a little rapey, but the guy's maybe the only one of his kind in New York; it's so sad he got blasted just because he loved the T-sub!

[Leo656]

All plesiosaurs are serial rapists. Don't feel bad for him.

[victory_angel]

I hope if that Dimention X answer to the Lochness Monster is shown again, maybe the Turtle's can be nice to it and find a way to get it on their side. After all the poor thing is looking for love in all the wrong places and seriously needs someone. Maybe have Mikey tame it.

[Coola Yagami]

Since this thread now seems exclusively about lust and not about Don and April, how about that plesiosaur? Am I the only one who feels really bad for him? I mean sure; he's a little rapey, but the guy's maybe the only one of his kind in New York; it's so sad he got blasted just because he loved the T-sub!

Not any more rapey than any other animal. Don't animals just walk up to another of their kind and start jumping them? At least dogs do. Lol.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I feel bad for the sea monster, too. Poor little thing! I'd love to see the Turtles get it on their side though against the Kraang. That would be neat.

Ah, Lawler, that doesn't surprise me. I personally do think it's creepy, but I'm in the minority on that, and that's okay. Different strokes for different folks.

[fridaynightdestination]

Well, I feel weird saying this but at some times its kinda cute, but at other times it comes off as straight up WEIRD and creepy.

[kolaida]

I feel bad for the sea monster, too, poor thing! I hope It gets a happy ending!

[m1om1om1o]

I just hope April ends up with Irma.
kill all creepy nice guys :lol:!

[ssjup81]

It is just you. :lol: After 18, it's all fair game. When you're 65, do you seriously think you won't find people in their 20s good-looking? There's nothing in a person's brain that only makes people your own age attractive.

Being middle-aged or older and hooking up with a girl in her 20s isn't called "creepy", it's called "Congratulations, You Win At Life." :lol:I still find it creepy. You can find a person attractive if he/she is younger than you, nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean you want to date them. To me, I find it creepy that anyone would want to date anyone young enough to be their own offspring. Too big a generation gap, but like I said, that's me. That will always be creepy to me.I kinda think being caught or not, some guy randomly grabbing her butt would have made April jump and sock him one.I know I probably would've instinctively reacted to that and punched without thinking about it.

[Konchadunga]

I agree. If you want a strong role model for women; they can't just fight the designated villains; they need to be able to respect themselves in case of friends harassing them, too.

Has there been a fight between Nick April and Casey? Should there be? Who would win?

[plastroncafe]

I'd like to think April, based solely on the fact that we've seen and had her training with Splinter referenced several times.

[BabyTurtles]

I agree. If you want a strong role model for women; they can't just fight the designated villains; they need to be able to respect themselves in case of friends harassing them, too.

Has there been a fight between Nick April and Casey? Should there be? Who would win?

XD a fight between April and Casey? I don't think Casey would want to hurt April even if they were just sparring.

but I'd say Casey :3 for his athleticism, great shot with those pucks, his tricks up his sleeves, and being able to endure more attacks.

April's learning her ninja skills fairly quickly...but she's still new the game. Casey might have not been training to fight specifically, but he does have lots of hockey experience and that sport is rough. April JUST started learning ninjutsu for only several months (I'd wager)

......so yea..I think Casey wins, unless April uses her weird psychic powers on him.

[victory_angel]

XD a fight between April and Casey? I don't think Casey would want to hurt April even if they were just sparring.

but I'd say Casey :3 for his athleticism, great shot with those pucks, his tricks up his sleeves, and being able to endure more attacks.

April's learning her ninja skills fairly quickly...but she's still new the game. Casey might have not been training to fight specifically, but he does have lots of hockey experience and that sport is rough. April JUST started learning ninjutsu for only several months (I'd wager)

......so yea..I think Casey wins, unless April uses her weird psychic powers on him.

We haven't seen Casey fight a female villain. So I can see him saying "Hey I don't fight girls. I might be a punk kid but I have standards as a man, and fighting girls isn't manly."

[Konchadunga]

Then again, neither is getting beaten up by girls.

[Leo656]

I still find it creepy. You can find a person attractive if he/she is younger than you, nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean you want to date them. To me, I find it creepy that anyone would want to date anyone young enough to be their own offspring. Too big a generation gap, but like I said, that's me. That will always be creepy to me.

This reminds me of an old George Carlin quote: "It is in no way unnatural for anyone to be in a relationship with someone much older or younger. It IS strange, however, when people over the age of 30 use the term 'date' when they mean 'f***'. Once you reach a certain age, you don't 'date' people anymore, you just f*** them. People in high school 'date'; grown-ups just have casual sex." :lol:

More to the recent topic: I've wrestled a few chicks. Some chicks can absolutely beat up anyone. And that's coming from an admitted chauvanist. :lol:

[ssjup81]

This reminds me of an old George Carlin quote: "It is in no way unnatural for anyone to be in a relationship with someone much older or younger. It IS strange, however, when people over the age of 30 use the term 'date' when they mean 'f***'. Once you reach a certain age, you don't 'date' people anymore, you just f*** them. People in high school 'date'; grown-ups just have casual sex." :lol:lol Maybe that's from a male point of view, although some women think this way too. I'm not one of them, though as I just don't believe in casual sex and believe it should be with a person you genuinely feel close enough to, to even get to that point.More to the recent topic: I've wrestled a few chicks. Some chicks can absolutely beat up anyone. And that's coming from an admitted chauvanist. :lol:I used to fight boys all the time when I was a kid. I was always around them. :lol:

[JamieH]

On one hand Donnie's infatuation with April makes sense, comes off as normal, and is adorable. But, on the other, it is creepy, borderline stalker, and inappropriate.

Donnie is a kid with no previous outside world interaction, let alone with the opposite sex. April comes along and bam, Donnie is susceptible to puberty as the next young boy. So a lot of it fits for a kid experiencing those emotions at that age. But, then there's those moments, which I feel are mostly for comedic relief, that go a bit too far and have you thinking he's a little creeper. Plus, it's hard to ignore the beastiality aspect of such a possible relationship. As a character, Donnie isn't thinking that far into it.

Chances are those working on the show have meant for it to always be comedic, even if they push things a bit far. Once Casey came along Donnie's crush on April had a foil. More opportunity for laughs and likely an eventual realization for Donnie.

Honestly? And I'm sure this has come up before (so just ignore it and don't turn it into a thing), the gap in his teeth is more troublesome to me than Donnie hooking up with April.

[Kendamu]

Yes. It's awesome. It's hilarious. It really adds to the fun in the show. I hope that sort of humor remains throughout the run.

[victory_angel]

Sponge Bob goes to lengths of creepy for the sake of laughs that makes Donnie at his worst look charming.

[JamieH]

SpongeBob also had extreme close-ups near the disgusting detail of Ren & Stimpy.

[Konchadunga]

I don't know how it changed in a decade, but in my day, Spongebob was always characterized as a weird, clueless and annoying nerd. Nick Don has elements of that, but he's also supposed to be a hero. If the former traits take over, that's a problem.

[victory_angel]

I don't know how it changed in a decade, but in my day, Spongebob was always characterized as a weird, clueless and annoying nerd. Nick Don has elements of that, but he's also supposed to be a hero. If the former traits take over, that's a problem.

I don't know how it changed either. Spongebob was just a loveable loser with child like innocents.

Now he is a pathological stalker. Such as that one episode where he invites Squidward to his house. When Squidward says he doesn't want to, Spongebob cries, begs, and eventually resorts to stealing Squidward's vacuum cleaner to get him to come over. When Squidward goes to get it back he finds Spongebob has made his house look like an exact replica of Squidward's down to the very last detail.

Now I wouldn't put past Donnie to offer his room to April...at least until they can set up a room for her.

But I don't think as unintentionally creepy as Donnie can get, I don't think he's creepy enough to Replicate April's bedroom down to the last detail.

[Lou 500]

I feel bad for the sea monster, too, poor thing! I hope It gets a happy ending!

Only if he can find a big enough pair of hands.

[ssjup81]

So...ignoring the other post there.... lol ....I was just wondering about something.

Some criticized Donnie for always trying to get hugs out of April, like in the episode where April mass texted them and the four were trying to decide whether they should go help her or not or if it counted as an emergency. It was the ep where April sent in her swab sample to that genetics lab (which was run by the Kraang) and they sent that robot lady to bring her in. After they rescued April, Donnie opened his arms, expecting a hug, but quickly stopped once he realized he wasn't going to get one.

There's also that other ep with that derp April or whatever they called it. She shot her grappling hook and she hit Donnie, who would've kept going if it hadn't have been for that, and when she was sliding down the rope, Donnie was hoping to help her, but also a hug, but didn't.

Now...in another ep, the one where they couldn't stop the Kraang's portal and Leatherhead sacrificed himself and going through back to Dimension X, when April was asking if the guys were okay, she went straight to Donnie. Later on she looked sad as Leo and the others were telling the story. Something I didn't catch before rewatching it was that April was hugging Donnie in the background (before they started telling the story). I guess because he looked down, but seemed kind of...unnecessary?

April hugs Donnie a lot more than I realized. Since she does do so so casually, that would explain why Donnie would just automatically expect a hug at times, right? April's quick to give them.

[BabyTurtles]

So...ignoring the other post there.... lol ....I was just wondering about something.

Some criticized Donnie for always trying to get hugs out of April, like in the episode where April mass texted them and the four were trying to decide whether they should go help her or not or if it counted as an emergency. It was the ep where April sent in her swab sample to that genetics lab (which was run by the Kraang) and they sent that robot lady to bring her in. After they rescued April, Donnie opened his arms, expecting a hug, but quickly stopped once he realized he wasn't going to get one.

There's also that other ep with that derp April or whatever they called it. She shot her grappling hook and she hit Donnie, who would've kept going if it hadn't have been for that, and when she was sliding down the rope, Donnie was hoping to help her, but also a hug, but didn't.

Now...in another ep, the one where they couldn't stop the Kraang's portal and Leatherhead sacrificed himself and going through back to Dimension X, when April was asking if the guys were okay, she went straight to Donnie. Later on she looked sad as Leo and the others were telling the story. Something I didn't catch before rewatching it was that April was hugging Donnie in the background (before they started telling the story). I guess because he looked down, but seemed kind of...unnecessary?

April hugs Donnie a lot more than I realized. Since she does do so so casually, that would explain why Donnie would just automatically expect a hug at times, right? April's quick to give them.

IDK....to tell you the truth....2012 April confuses me. :ohwell:

[JTH]

IDK....to tell you the truth....2012 April confuses me. :ohwell:
Confusing? She does pretty much what I've expected from her considering the circumstances of events.

It's more of people being fickle and overreaction over the smallest of issues.

VVV
jth: I've been meaning to ask this, but for your current sig for the Plan 10 ep, is it from this year's Wrestlemania?
Yes it is, thought it was a nice touch. :D

[ssjup81]

jth: I've been meaning to ask this, but for your current sig for the Plan 10 ep, is it from this year's Wrestlemania?

[BabyTurtles]

Confusing? She does pretty much what I've expected from her considering the circumstances of events.

It's more of people being fickle and overreaction over the smallest of issues.


just because you think what she's doing is normal doesn't mean it's the same feeling for everyone else. :ohwell:

[victory_angel]

So...ignoring the other post there.... lol ....I was just wondering about something.

Some criticized Donnie for always trying to get hugs out of April, like in the episode where April mass texted them and the four were trying to decide whether they should go help her or not or if it counted as an emergency. It was the ep where April sent in her swab sample to that genetics lab (which was run by the Kraang) and they sent that robot lady to bring her in. After they rescued April, Donnie opened his arms, expecting a hug, but quickly stopped once he realized he wasn't going to get one.

There's also that other ep with that derp April or whatever they called it. She shot her grappling hook and she hit Donnie, who would've kept going if it hadn't have been for that, and when she was sliding down the rope, Donnie was hoping to help her, but also a hug, but didn't.

Now...in another ep, the one where they couldn't stop the Kraang's portal and Leatherhead sacrificed himself and going through back to Dimension X, when April was asking if the guys were okay, she went straight to Donnie. Later on she looked sad as Leo and the others were telling the story. Something I didn't catch before rewatching it was that April was hugging Donnie in the background (before they started telling the story). I guess because he looked down, but seemed kind of...unnecessary?

April hugs Donnie a lot more than I realized. Since she does do so so casually, that would explain why Donnie would just automatically expect a hug at times, right? April's quick to give them.


Yeah I've pointed that out myself. The scene has April pacing back and forth then when the Turtles return home to the lair she looks up and says "You're okay!" And then runs up and hugs Donnie only.

She also hugs him in Showdown before they go off to take down the portal at TCRI.

Also you mentioned Kraang Conspiracy, there is a moment where Donnie saves her from getting her head blown off and April is less then appreciative about it. But later when they are in a fire fight with the Kraang, Donnie pushes her down so she wouldn't be hit by a missile. And then she does to the same to him seconds later to avoid missile fire.

Then when she is being dragged away by that one Kraang you do hear April crying out Donnie's name.

[BabyTurtles]

Yeah I've pointed that out myself. The scene has April pacing back and forth then when the Turtles return home to the lair she looks up and says "You're okay!" And then runs up and hugs Donnie only.

She also hugs him in Showdown before they go off to take down the portal at TCRI.

Also you mentioned Kraang Conspiracy, there is a moment where Donnie saves her from getting her head blown off and April is less then appreciative about it. But later when they are in a fire fight with the Kraang, Donnie pushes her down so she wouldn't be hit by a missile. And then she does to the same to him seconds later to avoid missile fire.

Then when she is being dragged away by that one Kraang you do hear April crying out Donnie's name.

this is one of the things that bothers me the most about her....it makes it seem like she doesn't care about the other turtles...the writers only want her around Donnie.

[JTH]

just because you think what she's doing is normal doesn't mean it's the same feeling for everyone else. :ohwell:
It also doesn't mean that it's stupid, based on popular opinion on here.

Just because a person doesn't like something, doesn't make it stupid or makes someone "creepy" for liking it.

[Donatello19]

So April is closest to Donnie, what's the big problem? Sure they could add a few more instances where she interacts with the others, but you guys make it like she's never spoken to them once.

[BabyTurtles]

It also doesn't mean that it's stupid, based on popular opinion on here.

Just because a person doesn't like something, doesn't make it stupid or makes someone "creepy" for liking it.

When have I ever said that anyone that likes Apriltello was stupid or creepy??? :ohwell: (we are talking about Apriltello right?)

just because I think it's creepy and annoying doesn't mean that people can't like it. In other words I'm calling the ship that....not the person XD

I think Makorra is straight up horrible, but I'm not going to call someone stupid for liking it....

So April is closest to Donnie, what's the big problem? Sure they could add a few more instances where she interacts with the others, but you guys make it like she's never spoken to them once.

XD people are so desperate for April to interact with the other turtles...that if she even touches one of them the fandom goes crazy.....it's that bad. (I remember when April finally said Raph's name, everyone was so happy)

when it gets that way....there's a problem (in my opinion)

[JTH]

When have I ever said that anyone that likes Apriltello was stupid or creepy??? :ohwell: (we are talking about Apriltello right?)

just because I think it's creepy and annoying doesn't mean that people can't like it. In other words I'm calling the ship that....not the person XD

I think Makorra is straight up horrible, but I'm not going to call someone stupid for liking it....
I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to general concession on here. Hence why I said "Based on popular opinion".

[Metalwolf]

I still find it creepy. You can find a person attractive if he/she is younger than you, nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean you want to date them. To me, I find it creepy that anyone would want to date anyone young enough to be their own offspring. Too big a generation gap, but like I said, that's me. That will always be creepy to me.I know I probably would've instinctively reacted to that and punched without thinking about it.Yeah, too big a generation gap and it starts to look creepy. It's one thing if both are adults and they are merely 10-15 years apart, but any bigger then that? Then it looks like the woman has 'daddy' issues and the older man starts looking like an opportunistic skeevy geezer. I saw one article years ago about some married couple that was composed of a 41 year old man and a 17 year old girl. This was an article on transients who road the rails, and it featured this pair. First thing I thought when I saw their ages was, that man took advantage of that girl. I can't stand men who go on and 'fall in love' with some girl that far outside of their age group, and then don't try to do the right thing and get over it.


As for the Donnie thing, it's hard to say. he doesn't appear to be obnoxious at this point, his 'crush' seems to be toned down a bit.

Plus, it's hard to ignore the beastiality aspect of such a possible relationship. As a character, Donnie isn't thinking that far into it. That part is hard to quantify pretty much, since we're now into unknowns once we enter mutant territory, especially Nick mutants.

With the highest probability, Donnie could likely be entirely Turtle and only using Hamato Yoshi (or some other human's DNA) as a sort of loose template.

Reason I say 'highest probability' is that there are three known mutants who had combined with substances that contained no DNA. Pizzaface, ICK kitty, and Mutagen Man. Mutagen alters you to resemble something and gain some of it's traits, but that's it. Otherwise all the Turtles would have brown eyes, since Yoshi has brown eyes. Plus they would also have had hair.

My speculation is that these new traits are only 'tacked' on to the original organism and just alters it's properties, and that the mutant creature is still what it always has been underneath, a turtle or a human or a cat. It's why it's possible to be cured, as the 'bonds' dissolve and these extra traits disappear.

It's why I never call them by anything by what they really are, otherwise classification would get confusing. :)

[ssjup81]

I don't know how it changed either. Spongebob was just a loveable loser with child like innocents.

Now he is a pathological stalker. Such as that one episode where he invites Squidward to his house. When Squidward says he doesn't want to, Spongebob cries, begs, and eventually resorts to stealing Squidward's vacuum cleaner to get him to come over. When Squidward goes to get it back he finds Spongebob has made his house look like an exact replica of Squidward's down to the very last detail.

Now I wouldn't put past Donnie to offer his room to April...at least until they can set up a room for her.

But I don't think as unintentionally creepy as Donnie can get, I don't think he's creepy enough to Replicate April's bedroom down to the last detail.That is legit creepy. I can understand how Donnie's actions can be misconstrued or misinterpreted as creepy, but not with Spongebob here.

I've never watched it much, maybe the earlier eps, but Spongebob came across as someone trying to make it on his own. Like Rocko, for example. Holding down a job, schooling, living on his own, etc. I didn't know he had a literal obsession with Squidward.

I could only see Donnie doing this if April asked him to replicate her room perfectly. I wonder if he and the others have ever even been in her room.