Official Episode Discussion S2 #22 "Vengeance is Mine" [Archive]

Machias Banshee

06-27-2014, 09:05 PM

I really wish I knew how to embed vimeo... (http://player.vimeo.com/video/99278223)

Happy Friday, turtle fans! :D

After the unusual body swap situation last week, we're finally getting back to some meaty goodness of the main storyline with Shredder and Karai. This will be the last episode before the short haitus that will bring us to the actual season finale. So let's have some fun with over-analyzing!

Okay, so Karai's been rotting in Shredder's prison for the past two weeks. She knows now that she's Splinter's daughter, the one she'd been brainwashed her entire life to search out and destroy. And the one who she thought cared for her was just a manipulative kidnapper and murderer. Two two weeks confined in the prison had to be a torturous time of self-reflection, probably some denial, anger, soul searching, and heartache. To know that your entire life as you know it has been a lie, part of a larger agenda of hate and obsession... how do you cope with that?

There's been some speculation that Karai's going to be mutated in this episode. It may be a one-episode thing, or a short arc for the finale. How will the fandom react? WHAT is she going to turn into? Could this be a brief stint of a female turtle on the show? Or could she be turned into a new version of Mona Lisa? Who knows...

Leo's chomping at the bit to get her out and bring her back to the lair. Maybe a lil too much... I know there's some debate about it, but considering Karai is Splinter's daughter by birth, and the boys were mutated with his DNA, it wouldn't be unreasonable to see them as quasi-biological half-siblings. Leo may get the talk with a lil dash of RONDORI if he's not careful... :evilgrin:

So the boys are gonna go and keep Shredders mutant minions busy while Leo plays white knight. Will Splinter get involved? He seemed awfully detached last week, when he told the turtles to sit back and wait instead of going out and searching for Raphael.

Why... is he holing himself up again and being so distant? The boys still need him - they're still only kids. Leo's just barely getting into puberty with his voice change (:P). Is he so wrapped up in the past that he can't see the present problems? Or is he subconsciously distancing himself to go back to his old human life with Karai? There's still the chance of de-mutation with Donatello's experiments.... he could be human again. Is he hiding in his study thinking about this? A way out? Or is it simply that the writers are holding him back so that his battles make more of an explosive impression on us viewers?

And what of April and Casey? They obviously want to take part and help the turtles. April's been busting her hump in practice with Splinter, and he's grown quite fond of her... even giving her what was meant to be his daughter's metal fan. And Casey... pretty much is either ready to get in a fight, or show off to impress April.

WILL THE TURTLES RESCUE KARAI?!
WILL SPLINTER FACE SHREDDER AGAIN!?
WILL WE LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HISTORY BETWEEN SAKI AND YOSHI?!
WILL LEO EVER STOP BLUSHING AROUND KARAI?!

Stay Tuned!! :D

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 02:34 AM

I saw the new episode thanx to I-tunes....

wow....just....wow...

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 02:36 AM

New episode thoughts in SPOILER TAG! WOW.

10/10 for me :)

"Vengence Is Mine"

This episode guys... THIS EPISODE!

I almost thought I was watching a totally different show, it was so far above what I've come to expect from it. I think that's the biggest compliment I can give.

So many cool sequences and a really fantastic surprise at the end.

It felt a TINY bit rushed there at the end... which is a shame but it doesn't diminish it for me.

Poor Karai... nooooooo!!! Her mutation is definitely not something I saw anyone predict. A white snake mutation :)

10/10!

it sets a new standard for what an episode of this show can be as far as I'm concerned.

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 02:42 AM

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 02:47 AM

I know BabyTurtles, such a great episode wow! I'm going to watch it again soon.

Here are some screencaps... SPOILERS!!!

http://i.imgur.com/TK6Ya3Jl.jpg (http://imgur.com/TK6Ya3J)
http://i.imgur.com/YymY1yrl.jpg (http://imgur.com/YymY1yr)
http://i.imgur.com/PtTE7zml.jpg (http://imgur.com/PtTE7zm)
http://i.imgur.com/eVcp6jil.jpg (http://imgur.com/eVcp6ji)

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 02:51 AM

another quick thing I am SOOOOOO happy this episode did wass
have Shredder actually CARE about Karai....like he didn't want to mutate her...and was seriously devastated (like Splinter) when she did ........it was nice to see Oroku not betray Karai, just because he still wanted vengeance...even when he was fighting Karai he didn't seem to want to fight back.

Papenbrook

06-29-2014, 02:54 AM

Please, tell me if Mutagen Man appears or not.

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 02:55 AM

Please, tell me if Mutagen Man appears or not.

in this episode?
no he did not (no mention)

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 02:58 AM

another quick thing I am SOOOOOO happy this episode did wass...
Yeah he had some emotional beats in two different parts... it's clear he cares for her in his own warped way, but he also put her directly in harm's way, how he could blame anyone but himself is baffling. But he's definitely not right in the head being that he's an evil villain and all so maybe it's not so surprising :lol:

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 03:02 AM

Yeah he had some emotional beats in two different parts... it's clear he cares for her in his own warped way, but he also put her directly in harm's way, how he could blame anyone but himself is baffling. But he's definitely not right in the head being that he's an evil villain and all so maybe it's not so surprising :lol:

yup....
He's still evil. A good father would never make their daughter bait....but he's warped like you said. It was just nice to see that he does have a heart under all that craziness.

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 03:48 AM

Oh my god, what an amazing episode.

Karai is a mutant now a shapeshifter serpent :teek: at least it wasn't Mona Lisa or Venus

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 03:53 AM

I didn't watch the ep yet...I can't wait to get home and am resisting the urge to read the spoilers. lol

I do part-time work on Sundays. If I'd watched it before I left, I would've never left. For here it's 4:00 pm when it's midnight PST. My lesson starts at 5:00 and the drive is about 20 min. Yeah...lol

pennydreadful

06-29-2014, 03:59 AM

I won't be able to watch it til tomorrow night over here (my time) - argh... can't wait! :D

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 04:04 AM

I should've asked this here....So it's official that she definitely mutates, but does it affect her the way it did Mutagen Man? You know, turning on the turtles? Did Karai turn on the turtles or attack them in whatever her mutated form is? I'm not looking at the spoilers. Did she turn on Shredder? Does it look like she'll join the turtles and Splinter?

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 04:11 AM

I should've asked this here....

I don't want to reveal it, as it spoilers. it's best if you wait till you watch it.

But i'll put in spoilers so warning for you.

The mutagen does affect her mind and she goes off on her own, so she could pose a threat to people

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 04:21 AM

I don't want to reveal it, as it spoilers. it's best if you wait till you watch it.

But i'll put in spoilers so warning for you.

The mutagen does affect her mind and she goes off on her own, so she could pose a threat to people

*urge to ditch students rising* lol

Thanks. I don't mind that kind of spoiler since I asked. lol. I don't want to know about her actual mutation. I want to be surprised. At least I know she won't be like "Justin". :lol:

So it does affect her mind. So she'll probably be neither an ally nor an enemy for either side. I'm curious how Leo is reacting or will react, same with Splinter, but I can wait on that.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 04:29 AM

Oh, were Casey and April in this ep?

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 04:30 AM

Oh, were Casey and April in this ep?

No.

April and Casey having some alone time this ep. Just a theory.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 04:43 AM

No.

April and Casey having some alone time this ep. Just a theory.

Aw, I was hoping for a cheesy line or two from Casey over Karai. lol

Leofan26

06-29-2014, 04:56 AM

Crap!

So, we were right about Karai actually mutating this episode, feel so bad for her. Man, poor Leo's going to messed up from this too :(

Speaking of which, what happens to Leo?

JH24

06-29-2014, 05:20 AM

I'm excited to hear the first reactions to the episode are positive. I've been avoiding spoilers/promo's since I saw the initial description, really looking forward to watch it later.

drgon78

06-29-2014, 05:32 AM

I really do not like her mutant design at all.:x

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 05:32 AM

Crap!

So, we were right about Karai actually mutating this episode, feel so bad for her. Man, poor Leo's going to messed up from this too :(

Speaking of which, what happens to Leo?

I'll put in spoilers just incase.

I'm guessing Splinter's going to give him a hard time over this as Leo was partly responsible (more Shredder's fault, even though he won't admit it) and is going to be some tenson between Splinter and Leo which will lead to Leo Mirage one shot as Shredder is going to be so pissed and almost kill Leo

Also as it's now on hiatus (and the episode finished on a cliffhanger) I think the last 4 episode will be aired in September/October time. I think the time will go quickly as everyone will be focused on the movie which is just over a months time in the US but as I cant (and everyone from UK) see the film till October 17th i'm going to go crazy and I will try not look at spoilers so if the the cartoon is back in September it make more focused on the cartoon than the movie until it comes out.

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 05:37 AM

I really do not like her mutant design at all.:x

I like the concept, but I still need to sleep on the design and let it sink in. It's more strange than I was expecting. It's definitely cool and pretty badass even, just not what I had in mind.

it may well end up being an awesome choice though, we'll see.

MartiusR

06-29-2014, 06:46 AM

Well, that's for sure impressive episode

I really liked the first part (rescuing & "rejoice the family"). Plenty of good fight (and Tiger Claw again in good shape, such as in "The Wrath..."), and the scene of "rejoice" in the lair was quite well designed. Big plus!

Although the second part... You know, I had the impression that it was "too fast". Well, it's only my opinion (probably a bit controversial), but I think that it would look better, if all this thing with "vengeance and mutation" would be present in next/another episode(yes, I'm still aware that the title of episode was unequivocal, not to mention that "extending" the "rescue-thing" or adding some new thread could not work too well on the quality of the episode). The final was quite predictable (well, we remember about April hanging over the vat with Mutagen, so what else could we expect than falling into that vat?), but the scene reffering to tragic evidence from Yoshi/Saki past looked good. Yeah, history repeats itself. And in this case - in such bitter way.

You know, I was quite surprised in case of Miwa's mutation. Surprised with the "shape" (not about the "snake-form", but because I expected more "humanoid-esque" shape), but even more surprised, that it was mutation in "Kirby-style" (so with losing the sanity, and with only some glimpses in memory).

And even if the idea of her chest similar to armor she had before mutation was quite interesting, to be honest, I don't like her new appearance. Well, at least she has this "shape-changing" ability. I'm really curious how they will solve this issue with mutated Miwa. And if it will happen in this season or not. Probably not (according to the expected beginning of 3rd season/end of this season), but, as Einstein said in Red Alert's intro, "Time will tell. Sooner or later - time will tell". I really would like the "sooner" option, but it'll probably be the "later" one :(

Drose18

06-29-2014, 07:16 AM

pizza is yummy

Machias Banshee

06-29-2014, 08:13 AM

I moved some of the spoileriffic posts from the season two discussion to here. Have fun. :P :)

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 08:20 AM

This episode was amazing, it was emotional, I was shaking and I had tears in my eyes at the end.

Will post thoughts later.

I feel this episode will have mixed reactions from everyone.

CowabungaMikey

06-29-2014, 08:25 AM

This was a fantastic episode. When Miwa / Karai hugged Splinter... wow. I don't really like her mutation, but it's fine. A 9.1/10 for me.

MrTMNT2012

06-29-2014, 08:29 AM

Did anyone else think this episode was extremely rushed?

This could've easily been a 2-parter but they just had to wrap everything in this one episode. We didn't even get a proper climax because of what happened to Karai, everything just sort of stopped instead of becoming more tense. Shredder's character development is very inconsistent IMO, he's shown to be ruthless one second but then genuinely care for his 'daughter' the next even though she just tried to kill him.

The way Karai mutated was literally the dumbest way possible and Shredder still blames Splinter for that. Also Snakarai's design is the weakest so far in the series.

Episode could've been way better IMO... (6.5/10) :(

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 08:34 AM

Netkeeper

06-29-2014, 08:39 AM

I don't usually get to watch an episode the day it comes out. I don't have a lot of context, though. Guess I'll just paste what I typed to a friend on Skype as I watched it under a cut.

[7:57:26 AM] duz_machines_84: "have u nothing to say to me daughter" that line was delivered so badly

[7:59:42 AM] duz_machines_84: ...mad skills
[7:59:44 AM] duz_machines_84: what mad skills
[7:59:47 AM] duz_machines_84: what are these mad skills
[7:59:49 AM] duz_machines_84: this is not specific

[8:02:30 AM] duz_machines_84: DUDE
[8:02:32 AM] duz_machines_84: DONNIE JUST
[8:02:36 AM] duz_machines_84: RAN OVER A BUNCH OF NINJA

[8:03:15 AM] duz_machines_84: ah yes i forgot about the turtle transport vehicle that takes up the whole road as if it were a one-lane road
[8:03:41 AM] duz_machines_84: that is NOT pizza grease

[8:05:45 AM] duz_machines_84: wow what. splinter isnt supposed to be wrong
[8:05:48 AM] duz_machines_84: this bothers me

[8:06:33 AM] duz_machines_84: leo did
[8:06:44 AM] duz_machines_84: you just swing your sword at a shuriken that was already on the ground
[8:06:48 AM] duz_machines_84: why did you do that

[8:07:08 AM] duz_machines_84: okay that was a good mikey moment
[8:07:20 AM] duz_machines_84: the water balloon

[8:09:20 AM] duz_machines_84: okay, i like how splinter prioritizes his family over revenge

[8:10:03 AM] duz_machines_84: WHY CANT YOU ****ING KIDS LISTEN TO DAD

[8:10:07 AM] duz_machines_84: POJH MYG ODF
[8:10:09 AM] duz_machines_84: WHAT WAS THA TLOOK
[8:10:15 AM] duz_machines_84: WHOA
[8:10:19 AM] duz_machines_84: KARAI WHAT
[8:10:30 AM] duz_machines_84: leo in a compromising position.jpg

[8:11:10 AM] duz_machines_84: WHOA IMPALE--
[8:11:13 AM] duz_machines_84: oh robot

[8:11:29 AM] duz_machines_84: why are you swinging at nothi-
[8:11:30 AM] duz_machines_84: oh
[8:11:34 AM] duz_machines_84: youre just missing
[8:11:35 AM] duz_machines_84: terribly

[8:11:51 AM] duz_machines_84: why would you throw shuriken at a dude covered in metal armour

[8:13:43 AM] duz_machines_84: "LET MY DAUGHTER GO"'

[8:14:02 AM] duz_machines_84: "FIGHT ME /RAT/"
[8:14:05 AM] duz_machines_84: lmao
[8:14:08 AM] duz_machines_84: u are not threatening

[8:14:13 AM] duz_machines_84: OH NO
[8:14:18 AM] duz_machines_84: THEY'RE TRAPPED IN /TINY CAGES/
[8:14:24 AM] duz_machines_84: THEY'RE LIKE NORMAL CAGES BUT /TINY/
[8:14:29 AM] duz_machines_84: ...and easy to break out of apparently

[8:14:47 AM] duz_machines_84: the shredder is such an idiot?
[8:14:56 AM] duz_machines_84: if you didnt want karai mutated
[8:15:03 AM] duz_machines_84: you should have kept her away from the mutagen

[8:15:36 AM] duz_machines_84: what
[8:15:40 AM] duz_machines_84: where did those rocks come from

[8:15:53 AM] duz_machines_84: uh
[8:15:56 AM] duz_machines_84: karai's not dead
[8:16:03 AM] duz_machines_84: you cant avenge her
[8:16:05 AM] duz_machines_84: she's ALIVE

[8:17:07 AM] duz_machines_84: SHE'S A WERE-SNAKE

[8:17:49 AM] duz_machines_84: that was
[8:17:57 AM] duz_machines_84: i'm not even fully sure what i just watched
[8:18:01 AM] duz_machines_84: it happened way too fast
[8:18:06 AM] duz_machines_84: they need to like
[8:18:12 AM] duz_machines_84: cut this **** down to two-parters or something

TurFlytle

06-29-2014, 08:40 AM

I think Shredder is becoming a hypocrite at this point. :tgrumble: C'mon, he blamed Splinter for Karai's mutation even though he was the one responsible for hanging her near a mutagen vat. He even broke the chains that held the cage! I feel sorry for Karai now, but at least she turned back to normal-ish. Listen Ciro, if you want "every" single human character mutate, I'm out. After that, those three are going to be scarred for life, especially Shredhead the hypocrite.

kelligrafie

06-29-2014, 08:52 AM

I'm ready for copious amounts of white bread, peanut butter and milk to comfort eat the pain away.

I loved this episode. I didn't really feel it was rushed but then again I was very caught up in everything that was happening.

Guess we're getting an episode of Raph losing his eyesight. If not, I'll be disappointed.

ObiWanFan4life

06-29-2014, 09:03 AM

Really Good Episode. Lots of great moments that I won't spoil (too much) until the episode has passed.

JTH

06-29-2014, 09:30 AM

Countdown to Cubed eating crow: 1 hour and counting.

HayaMika

06-29-2014, 09:36 AM

Saw it on livestream. Thoughts under spoiler~ >w<

Holy hell I didn't think they would actually mutate Karai... >w>' That was definitely a big, BIG jump for the show...

And am I the only one who is actually excited to know which door goes to Donnie's room? If your standing on the steps up to it and looking down the hall, his room is on the Left... I'm trying way to hard with this but still... We know what Raph and Mikeys rooms look like now I wanna see Donnie and Leo's gfdndsz...

Sewer Sirens Podcast

06-29-2014, 09:41 AM

This episode was great.

Was definitely surprised that Karai mutated into a snake instead of a rat or a turtle, but it was cool. Sadly, I has the episode spoiled for me (sorta) that Karai truly did mutate, which stunk. However, really liked the episode.

Also surprised the "Leo micro" episode and the speculated "lair invasion" episode wasn't this one, but it's cool that they be saving it for later. Possibly the season finale? Can't wait.

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 09:58 AM

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 10:03 AM

This episode... the best episode yet, it even beats out Wrath of Tiger Claw or Slash and Destroy for me. It's got so much character development and sad scenes, and the music at "that part" just adds to it. If anyone has the music for "THAT SCENE (You know what it is.)" Could you please link it?

Now, let's talk spoilers.
The Karai scene was fantastic. The violin music just made the scene for me completely, that and Shredder nearly coming to tears and in denial that he didn't do this to his daughter, thinking that Splinter did. Also, it broke me when you saw Karai's hand slip away in the mutagen. Splinter's going to have a lot of tension with Leo from the looks of it, and it looks like Shredder's gonna flip the hell out and attack the lair, hint hint Leo one-shot. I think the Dimension X episode is next since there's only 4 episodes left. Does anyone know when the episodes resume airing? Anyways, I don't think Karai will be mutated that long, but it was definitely a great plot twist and is going to add fuel to the fire with the bitterness between Splinter and Shredder. I love how they focused this season more on Shredder rather than the Kraang like last season. What I don't get is why Leo thinks he can take on Shredder on his own. I mean, all four Turtles barley escape every time they fight him.

ObiWanFan4life

06-29-2014, 10:04 AM

I have a question. Why Did Shredder blame Splinter for Karai Mutating when it was Shredder' s fault for releasing the cage ?

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 10:08 AM

Okay, so I've finally watched the episode. Man, where to start. lol Oh, I will say this....I felt that this episode should've been a two-parter or done in the same fashion as the Wormquake ep. Karai being with the turtles and Splinter was just so short. I was hoping to see a bit more bonding with them, but oh well. What we did get was still really nice. Karai hugging Splinter was very touching.

Oh yeah, their plan to rescue her was nice and I actually like how Leo stuck to his guns and went to rescue her anyway. "Sensei is wrong." I loved hearing that for some reason. Leo's plan was actually pretty good, and I liked Mikey for this episode. He didn't have to have the plan which is the plan which they must all follow to be repeated again to the one known as Micheangelo....sorry. lol I'm glad that this was changed from season 1. Please show, continue making Mikey entertaining and useful. ^_^

I'm so glad that we finally have more backstory. So Yoshi and Saki were in the same clan, but Saki was from a rival clan who was raised in the Hamato clan. That bit of information was great, but given Shredder's character, that still doesn't change how I felt about him when I first started watching this show. I learned something more about him through this episode....

He has his priorities twisted as he blames Yoshi for the death of Teng Shen (sp?) when it was HIS FAULT! His mind is twisted. It's like personal responsibility and Shredder don't mix at all. He was acting butt hurt over the fact that she loved Yoshi and not him. Seriously, how long can one hold a grudge when the woman you like marries someone else. It's a sign! She's just not that into you! Get over it. Good grief. He attacks the man, accidentally kills the woman he loves and it's the guy he tried to kill fault? Y-eah....

Other thing I learned about him, he does have some fatherly feelings towards Karai. He seemed really upset over her being mutated....but his mind, once again, is twisted. HOW IN THE WORLD IS IT SPLINTER'S FAULT? It's his fault! He had Karai over the vat of mutagen. He cut the chain to try to have Leo fall in. Geez. I just don't like Shredder for this version since his motivations are so....foolish. Well, at least I was right long ago about Shredder and the mutating of Karai, though, and how he'd be responsible...only difference is that it was an accident.

As for the mutation....I actually didn't mind it. I like Karai's mutation, and it seems that as a way to satisfy both sets of fans (those who don't want a mutation, those who didn't mind it). i was one of the ones who didn't want her to get mutated. It's nice that she can shapeshift. I wonder what it was that fell into the mixture that Baxter dumped in.

Sucks I have to wait so long for another episode and I don't have much interest in the upcoming movie.

Oh yeah, I found it...interesting how you could parallel Leo to Donnie and at one point, Karai to April. When Karai was like, "What took you so long" just sounds like something April would say (and I'm sure she did to Donnie at some point). The sparring part was funny and Leo reminded me of Donnie from that season 1 "sadorable" (Operation Break Out) ep when Donnie was sparring with Raph and he was trying to impress April, but Raph embarassed Donnie. For this one, Mikey did the same to Leo. lol So Leo trying to impress Karai was cute and silly. If the writers want to go down that path...it will be interesting, but I'm under the impression that Karai won't be around much.

I still wonder if there will be animosity between Splinter and Leo now because of this incident, or if Splinter will hold any resentment towards Leo. Oh why must we wait months for another episode! T_T

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 10:12 AM

I have a question. Why Did Shredder blame Splinter for Karai Mutating when it was Shredder' s fault for releasing the cage ?

Because Shredder's just arrogant and blind like that.

How long is the wait? :/

ninja-zero

06-29-2014, 10:15 AM

So Karai is a shapeshifting mutant?

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 10:16 AM

So Karai is a shapeshifting mutant?

I think it's because it looks like Baxter spilled retromutagen into the container.

kelligrafie

06-29-2014, 10:21 AM

Guys is there really any need for the spoiler tags?

I mean if people haven't seen it yet, they should really be avoiding the thread that's ABOUT the actual episode.

Fair does if you were to discuss the episode in the official news thread or elsewhere, but in here it's really quite unnecessary.

saintsaucey

06-29-2014, 10:23 AM

Watching it now. So the foot are basicly the frost giants to splinter's asgardian family?

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 10:27 AM

So, how do you think this ep would've turned out if Leo had managed to go along with Karai and the other three and Splinter figure it out and go after them?

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 10:33 AM

Wow this episode was amazing, it was emotional, I feel so bad for Splinter, he got his daughter back but then she was taken away from him again. I didn't think Karai was going to be mutated in this episode.

I like Karai mutation as it's different, it looked like she's going to be dangerous and a threat to people as it looked like the mutation affected her mind.

I feel there is going to be tension between Splinter and Leo as it was partly Leo's fault but more Shredder's fault for using her as bait, he won't admit it and will be pissed which will lead to probably almost killing Leo.

I like all the little fights between Karai and Tiger Claw.
I like Leo's plan to save Karai and was great seeing each turtle had a job to do.
Leo blushing was adorable
Mikey destracting Fishface and Rahzar was great, it proves he can be more focused and mature and when he hurt his arm he overcome that pain to fight Fishface.
Raph helping Mikey was adorable, proves Raph is awesome big brother.
I like the chase scene and Donnie got some extra gadgets on the Shell Razor, Poop TNT LOL.
Splinter and Karai's hug was adorable
Mikey and Leo's spar session was great, then they ended up brawling accidently taking Donnie and Raph was like what the hell i'll join in too lol.
The flashback was amazing, it had more history between Splinter and Shreder. So Shredder was adopted by Splinter's father and he and Splinter were raised together, WOW. So Shredder is "sort of" Uncle to Karai.
Karai and Leo moment together was cute and Leo looked a bit awkward when Karai got close to him.
Chrome Dome is back (well only for a minute)
Karai trying to fight Shredder was good but ouch Shredder hitting Karai was brutal, (i'm surprised that Nick are able to show things like that)
The fight scene was great it had more Splinter vs Shredder fight.
Karai mutating was just wow, I loved the music and it made it emotional.
My heart sank when Splinter was holding Karai in his arms and Splinter and Shredder were devistated it proves Shredder cares about Karai but he isan asshole for putting Karai in danger like that.
I hope Raph will be ok after mutated Karai spat some toxic into his eyes, I would have thought he be blinded temporarly (for a few episodes) but he seems ok but it's hard to tell with Raph because he probably wouldn't admit there something wrong.
My heart sank even more when I saw them how sad they all were and with Leo trying to apologize to Splinter, I expect there will be tension between them.
Mikey asking Donnie if he could do more retro mutagen but I think it be more harder due to what Baxter put into the mutagen and Donnie has to find a fresh batch now due to the mutagen in Baxter's lab is contaminated.

Can't wait till the next episode, I guess it's going to be a long wait.

snake

06-29-2014, 10:33 AM

Wow, just wow. I really expected Karai to mutate into Venus or something, that was awesome. I assume she can change back and forth from human to snake?

fridaynightdestination

06-29-2014, 10:34 AM

Woah, that episode got a little intense towards the end there! Probably the darkest episode this season. The last 5 minutes or so was the highlight of the episode, of course. Everything with Karai and Shredder was really cool, and seeing Splinter and Shredder fight, while brief, was awesome. Overall, great episode, 8.5/10.

Luckyday

06-29-2014, 10:34 AM

I was right. sort of.:lol:

Do you think it was a cop put to give her an ability to turn back into a human?

snake

06-29-2014, 10:37 AM

I was right. sort of.:lol:

Do you think it was a cop put to give her an ability to turn back into a human?

No, some snakes can change colors I'm pretty sure. So maybe that mixed with the mutagen, giving her the ability to change into anything (Or just Karai's human form).

Was her VA the same one who voiced Ventress from Clone Wars?

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 10:38 AM

Wow... just wow...

In a way this is what I wanted, to see Karai, a character never mutated in past media to be mutated... but as a whole new character and not just Venus or some other past character. but wow, it was done in such a bizzare and tragic way. And the reactions from both Splinter and Shredder were awesome. But c'mon Shredder.. what did you expect was gonna happen if you had her hanging up there anyway?

saintsaucey

06-29-2014, 10:38 AM

Loved seeing chrome dome. If only just for a second.

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 10:42 AM

Darkest episode of the series by a long shot. The Leo one-shot is going to be the finale, I can sense it lmao. I really hope it is, because Shredder may also blame Leo because he was the one he tried to attack. If the Leo one-shot happens, I hope that the Turtles begin to fear Shredder again. They were so afraid of him after their first fight, and the fear was lost, and now they think they can take him any time even though he whoops ass.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 10:43 AM

Woah.

Got my ass up and to the computer first thing, not even washed up yet...

Geezus frigging kirst, what the shell was that?? o.O Well damnnn...

Unforeseen, but that works I suppose. Is she a shape shifter or WHAT.

Also. D'awww... he blushed.

Edit: I guess maybe she's an enemy again for now. :\ Sad.

pannoni1

06-29-2014, 10:43 AM

Wow, what a tragic fate that took place following Splinter's backstory, which itself was very heart touching to listen to, even involving Saki/Hamato as children and teaches a good lesson about just staying safe and avoiding further trouble by trying too hard if you don't have the capabilities. There was still room for Raphael to throw a "this isn't a romantic comedy" gag. That said, I see the mutation of Karai as more than just an opportunity lost for the good guys, another mutant makes her more powerful seemingly when Karaigon (what I'll refer to her from now on) can have a partial human stance that can cause more trouble. And being rushed isn't necessairily bad thing as it can make something that seems hopeful turn into defeat in a matter of moments, and in an episode where the Foot gains a victory, its always more anticipation for a future episode.

Overall: 9/10

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 10:44 AM

Forgot to mention that Karai looked like more of a Pokemon than Spidey Bytes did. I kept thinking they should have tossed a Pokeball at her.

snake

06-29-2014, 10:44 AM

Woah.

Got my ass up and to the computer first thing, not even washed up yet...

Geezus frigging kirst, what the shell was that?? o.O Well damnnn...

Unforeseen, but that works I suppose. Is she a shape shifter or WHAT.

Also. D'awww... he blushed.

She looks like Scaletail honestly.

http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Scale_Tail

Metalwolf

06-29-2014, 10:45 AM

Just got done seeing this episode a few minutes ago and here are my various thoughts...

I have a feeling the events that transpired in this episode is going to take the Hamato-Foot rivalry to another level. To Shredder, Yoshi just took he still considers his 'daughter' and would consider it Yoshi's fault that she got turned into a snake girl. Especially as the intended mutation was never meant for her, but for the Turtles instead.

Baxter bragging to Shredder how he could make anything with the mutagen including creating more of it, makes me think that Shredder will make him try to come up with a retromutagen. I have a good feeling that's what is going to happen, and that Shredder might try to 'buy' back her loyalty with it.

-It's also good to see that Baxter has lost none of his intelligence, so he'll still be that mad scientist.

I have a feeling that Karai is still going to go after Shredder, even in this semi-mutated form. She might be partially feral and will be reacting on instinct and partial memories, so she might not be totally in her right mind.

Like others have said, I think Splinter is going to be mad at Leo for a while. He was a little cool with him, which does show that he isn't some unrealistically perfect character who forgives instantly and easily. He's a bit more complex then that, which makes him seem more human.

I liked how the henchmen don't act totally goofy in this episode, but seem to be a little more dignified, especially Xever. I keep wondering though how much Shredder is going to keep putting up with his henchmen's failures, even though he anticipated that Karai was going to be rescued. He seems to easily forgive Tigerclaw as he seems to be an extremely competent guy, but his other guys (Bradford and Xever) seem like they are reaching OT Bebop and Rocksteady levels of incompetence. How long will he keep those two around? Maybe that's why he gets Bebop and Rocksteady (if they join him, that is.)

Edit: Removed spoiler tags. They aren't needed now.

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 10:45 AM

bridgegrn

06-29-2014, 10:46 AM

I have a question. Why Did Shredder blame Splinter for Karai Mutating when it was Shredder' s fault for releasing the cage ?

Because he's insane. As far as he's concerned Splinter is the root of all evil and caused all of this.

Aaronardo

06-29-2014, 10:47 AM

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 10:48 AM

She looks like Scaletail honestly.

http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Scale_Tail
Ahhh you could be very right that it's inspired by that one.

snake

06-29-2014, 10:49 AM

Don't even feel like typing out a whole paragraph on how I feel about this episode, since many already have.

I'll just leave it like this: This is the only episode in the series so far that I've felt so many emotions at the same time. I actually shed a tear at one point in this episode. If you haven't seen this episode yet, there's something wrong with you. Go watch it. Now.

When Karai was in the lair, laughing, and watching them train, that pulled some happy feelings. Then she got mutated and I suddenly couldn't hold all these feels.

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 10:50 AM

She looks like Scaletail honestly.

http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Scale_Tail

Oh crap... I forgot all about him.... Cue the Cubed going on and on about calling her Scaletail now...

JTH

06-29-2014, 10:50 AM

........Wow.

Juanita27

06-29-2014, 10:50 AM

Maybe while working on Karai's retro mutagen the show will depict Donnie also working on the retro mutagen for that poor cat and Timothy!

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 10:51 AM

I have a question. Why Did Shredder blame Splinter for Karai Mutating when it was Shredder' s fault for releasing the cage ?
Purely because he's a jerk if you ask me. Hell, his whole beef with Splinter still (other than lifelong competition and whatnot they revealed today) is what, that he lost out on the girl? Guy could use some psychotherapy.

snake

06-29-2014, 10:52 AM

Oh crap... I forgot all about him.... Cue the Cubed going on and on about calling her Scaletail now...

I have some nick concept art and one of them is a snake. I'll eventually post it, but I'm on an iPad right now.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 10:54 AM

If you haven't seen this episode yet, there's something wrong with you. Go watch it. Now.
Yes, this. Or MUST catch the repeat later on the other Nick channel if you have it.

Hell, I'd fallen back to sleep, woke up and looked at the clock a minute before start. Cuz I've got skills like that. :P Ok, luck. This time.

snake

06-29-2014, 10:55 AM

Here's the concept art. It's sideways though.

Leofan26

06-29-2014, 10:56 AM

Holy cow, amazing episode. I bet the Leo x Karai shippers are jumping for joy out of this one though :P

I felt bad for Leo / Karai / Splinter, all of those three took the biggest hits.

Screw Shredder, I don't feel sorry for you at all. I hope Leo's the one who takes him down after every thing that's happened and going to happen later on, revenge! :x

I almost cried when Karai was being mutated like that :(

Over all, one of my favorite episodes to date.

P.S

Loved how Leo went against Splinters orders, I hope since there will likely have tension between them this season that Leo does it more often :D

alpaca witch

06-29-2014, 10:59 AM

I'm so glad all the rumours about Karai mutating turned out to be true, but a little disappointed that now all of her character growth is pretty much reset. We barely got any time to enjoy her being with her family. I was hoping her mutation would be used to symbolise a new saga in her life, bringing her closer to her mutant siblings and bidding farewell to her past with Shredder. At least she's shown to have some good left in her, but I doubt she'll ever be truly "good" as long as she's mutated. I can see that being a plot point in the future actually, they try to get through to her mutant form but realise it's hopeless, and end up trying to fix her or something along those lines.
Really good episode, I'm loving her new snake form and can't wait for the inevitable toy. I can only hope we'll get a human Karai at some point, but I'm not holding my breath. Did anyone else get scale tail vibes from her new form? I know the writers are fans of all things TMNT so I wouldn't be surprised if she was a unique reference.
http://www.actiontoys.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/TMNT92-12L.jpg
EDIT: oops, took a bit long to post and it seems someone pointed it out before me haha

Allio

06-29-2014, 11:01 AM

*Snake girl Karai

my fet!sh...

http://i.imgur.com/KaNuunR.jpg

TigerClaw

06-29-2014, 11:01 AM

I thought it was a good episode.

I'm sure it was no surprise to see to see Karai turn into a mutant snake
This show's version of a female mutant, Sorry Mona Lisa fans.

snake

06-29-2014, 11:01 AM

*Snake girl Karai

my fet!sh...

http://static.minitokyo.net/downloads/10/21/633560.jpg?1883348650

No one can see your image.

JTH

06-29-2014, 11:01 AM

It's very weird.

The episode was so good, but the ending is so horribly sad that I don't know if I could put myself to see the ending again.

So sad. :cry:

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 11:08 AM

Loved how Leo went against Splinters orders, I hope since there will likely have tension between them this season that Leo does it more often :DYes, this was one of the things I loved most about Leo this ep. His disobeying Splinter because he felt he was right. It was a bit rebellious of him.

That aside, Leo wanted to go with Karai after Shredder. I wonder if he meant that only the two of them go after Shredder, or if he was planning on getting his brothers to tag along too.

Allio

06-29-2014, 11:10 AM

No one can see your image.

wonder why

I would like a hug from snake Karai
http://i.imgur.com/KaNuunR.jpg

Luckyday

06-29-2014, 11:12 AM

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 11:14 AM

Now, we DO or do not have at least a few more episodes left of this season compared to what I'm seeing listed online? Anyone?

More of this one really needs to wrap up before it takes a break for a bit, so I hope it's set to continue next week.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 11:14 AM

With her being to change back, I can't see any downside to her mutation unless the writers were smart in showing the side effects of having a snake biology like not being consume human food, cold-bloodedness, and not being go to a hospital for injuries.IMO, I feel the writers went this route to appease the fans who didn't want to see her mutated and for those who actually did. She still has a "human" like form so that should satisfy the people in the, "Please don't let Karai get mutated camp...like me. lol

kelligrafie

06-29-2014, 11:15 AM

I like how her mutation fused her armour to her body. Like Cockroach Spy.

Is no-one going to mention the Leo ass shot?

Donatello19

06-29-2014, 11:16 AM

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m08mhdrcxs1rqfhi2o1_400.gif

BUT SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED

Ok, first of all...AMAZING episode. Probably my favorite so far. Splinter and Shredder's past/backstory revealed some more, Karai finally being rescued and joining the turtles, Splinter being so happy to have his daughter back, everything looking good for them....BUT NO! Karai got mutated! WHY!?I'm not angry about it or anything but I just feel so terrible for the guys now, especially Splinter, he is DEVASTATED! Even Shredder was upset, which was nice because it shows that he does in fact care about Karai. I really can't believe they actually mutated her...I mean, I knew it was going to happen...but, wow...as for her mutant form, it's not at all what I expected. I was really expecting her to turn into Venus, but then I remembered that the mutagen was altered so it would mutate people/mutants into serpents, Splinter's (rat's) enemy/predator. Her design is crazy and off the wall, but still very menacing...but we saw her turn back into her human (ish?) form at the end, so...? Very curious to see how this will all play out. Is she evil know, can she still think like a human? Can she still remember everything/everyone? Wow, just....wow is all I can say about this episode. It was so great and I was on the edge of my seat and actually screaming at the TV at certain parts :lol: I really hope Donnie will be able to cure her, why was he so unsure? Is it because the mutagen that mutated her was altered? Who knows. So many questions I have...I could ramble on for longer, but I'm sure you get the point of how I feel about all of this. I'm definitely a little upset about Karai mutating, she was my second favorite character on the show. I need the next episode NOW! AHHHHH!

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 11:20 AM

IMO, I feel the writers went this route to appease the fans who didn't want to see her mutated and for those who actually did. She still has a "human" like form so that should satisfy the people in the, "Please don't let Karai get mutated camp...like me. lol
Brilliant way to go about it, I gotta give them credit for that. But man is she prob going to be untrustworthy now unless they can help her. o.O

BUT SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED
My thoughts exactly.

Is no-one going to mention the Leo ass shot?
o.O lol Finally someone got one instead of April? Didn't personally notice, but then I think I'd be way too old to be looking for that anyhow. lol

Now.. when she leaned in close and he looked around like he wasn't sure quite how to feel about it or know where to go with that.. baahahaha

saintsaucey

06-29-2014, 11:22 AM

I like how her mutation fused her armour to her body. Like Cockroach Spy.

Is no-one going to mention the Leo ass shot?

Cockroach terminator. I didn't see the ass shot you speak of.

NinjaPug

06-29-2014, 11:23 AM

I didn't want Karai mutated but at least she's able to change back to her non-mutant form. I'm not really a fan of her mutant look either particularly her hands being snake heads.

Aside from that it was a pretty cool episode.
- finally got more of a look at Shredder's compound
- more Yoshi / Saki backstory
- Karai with Splinter/Turtles during training
- return of Chrome Dome
- Karai vs Shredder fight

Shredder blaming Splinter for Karai mutating was pretty stupid too. It's just lazy writing.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 11:25 AM

Shredder blaming Splinter for Karai mutating was pretty stupid too. It's just lazy writing.
Maybe character trait of lacking taking personal responsibly? Only other thing I can figure.

Donatello19

06-29-2014, 11:27 AM

Now, we DO or do not have at least a few more episodes left of this season compared to what I'm seeing listed online? Anyone?

There are 4 more episodes for Season 2, but the finale will most likely be a two parter...so 2 more normal episodes and the finale is all that's left.

I'm still in shock from the episode, wow.

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 11:28 AM

There are 4 more episodes for Season 2, but the finale will most likely be a two parter...so 2 more normal episodes and the finale is all that's left.

I'm still in shock from the episode, wow.

I'm thinking the finale is the Leo one-shot and the lair being destroyed.

saintsaucey

06-29-2014, 11:29 AM

I just sent Paula another email begging for a human karai figure. I asked for the naame and mailing address of someone who could make this happen and mentioned I would pass it along to other friends who also wish for a human karai figure.

Donatello19

06-29-2014, 11:31 AM

snake

06-29-2014, 11:48 AM

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 11:48 AM

There are 4 more episodes for Season 2, but the finale will most likely be a two parter...so 2 more normal episodes and the finale is all that's left.

I'm still in shock from the episode, wow.
Yay, ty!

Some of this one was epic enough, can't wait to see how the finale closes with a cliff hanger.

Donatello19

06-29-2014, 11:50 AM

Playmates doesn't make human characters anymore i'm afraid.

They confirmed that MUTATED Karai is coming out in 2015, so they're probably making the snake form...is what I meant.

TurFlytle

06-29-2014, 11:58 AM

I'm thinking the finale is the Leo one-shot and the lair being destroyed.

Are you going to keep on talking about it? We already know what you think the finale is. :tgrumble:

TigerClaw

06-29-2014, 11:59 AM

Here's the Mutated Karai

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrSt-FUIIAA1ruS.jpg:large

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 12:01 PM

Shredder blaming Splinter for Karai mutating was pretty stupid too. It's just lazy writing.In an earlier post in this thread, I mentioned this too.

The death of Teng Shen (seriously, how do you write her name? lol) and Karai's mutation were both caused by Saki/Shredder's selfish actions. I mentioned that "personal responsibility + Shredder obviously don't mix".

He was too petty to get through his head that Teng didn't like him and that she loved Yoshi. Boohoo, I'm going to attack him and fight him because he is with the girl I want to be with. I just can't feel sorry for him in this regard.

Now, the stuff regarding his finding out about the Foot Clan....I can sorta see it and feel a bit sorry for him, as, in a way, it parallels Karai's story and upbringing....sort of. Living her life thinking that Saki was her true family until finding out the truth and how she's pretty much an "adopted" daughter, just like Saki grew up in the Hamato clan as an adopted son of Yoshi's father.

Ninjinister

06-29-2014, 12:02 PM

my fet!sh...

Why did you spell that with an exclamation point?

OrangeNinja1987

06-29-2014, 12:05 PM

Amazing episode. I missed the first ten minutes due to a power outage so I've got to catch that later.
Really liked this episode, except for Karai's mutation. I'm okay with it, but I think it just looks off the wall. Snake heads for hands...? At least she can take human form.
Leo was great in this episode, and so was Splinter. The whole episode was so emotional. I think Shredder blamed Splinter for the mutation because he was in denial or lacks the ability to take responsibility (he blamed Tang Shen's death on Splinter, so I can't see why he would do it again. Shredder probably can't take the guilt. He did have some fatherly feelings for Karai even though hanging her over mutagen and making her bait officially makes him the one of the worst fathers ever).
I wonder how Splinter will treat Leonardo because of this.
Is there really going to be a Leo one-shot episode? So excited! :D

kelligrafie

06-29-2014, 12:06 PM

Cockroach terminator. I didn't see the ass shot you speak of.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/fa2f99b83db88a540f6be85496fb18a6/tumblr_n7xo64g74Y1tc9dnco1_1280.jpg

And he's smirking after she gassed him right in the face. That ain't right.

ninja-zero

06-29-2014, 12:08 PM

I wish they did new episodes already.

Hope they'll discover Karai became a shapeshifter.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 12:08 PM

o.O lol Finally someone got one instead of April? Didn't personally notice, but then I think I'd be way too old to be looking for that anyhow. lolI didn't notice this either, but like you, I wouldn't even be looking for something like that. With April, you can't help but notice.Now.. when she leaned in close and he looked around like he wasn't sure quite how to feel about it or know where to go with that.. baahahahaAm I the only one who really likes Leo facial expressions? They're always interesting, like when they used the T-sub for the first time. His look when the periscope came down was priceless to me. lol

That aside, that was great. It's obvious that he still does have a crush on her...and I find it entertaining for some reason.

Asha

06-29-2014, 12:09 PM

Isn't it weird Shredder expects Karai to be apart of the Foot Clan considering what he did after finding out his biological family is the Foot Clan.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 12:09 PM

Ahh, that shot... lol

Yeah, didn't register as a butt shot to me. I was more like, aw, poor thing, wake up Leo! :)

Am I the only one who really likes Leo facial expressions?

Nope, love it all... that sub one, when he's trying to look all serious, when he's watching his shows... d'awww!

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 12:14 PM

Ugh. I need the new episodes now. I honestly don't think they're ever going to cure Karai's mutation. I think that they'll just have her be a shapeshifter, with the eyes and the fangs not showing anymore. Her design looks a lot like Alopex and the other snake villain from the '80's show (Can't think of the name.)

bridgegrn

06-29-2014, 12:20 PM

Shredder blaming Splinter for Karai mutating was pretty stupid too. It's just lazy writing.
How do you figure that? It gives deeper insight into how mentally unstable The Shredder is and how much hate he has. It's obviously his fault! That's the point. He's so blinded that he can't see that. He can only see enemies.

PizzaFaceDelivers

06-29-2014, 12:24 PM

So... that was amazing. :thyper: Maybe the best episode yet.
I think my ONLY complaint is Karai's mutant arms. I would have much preferred humanoid arms. I'm definitely intrigued by her ability to shapeshift however. I can't wait for more episodes! This show gets better every week. :tgrin:

Machias Banshee

06-29-2014, 12:25 PM

How do you figure that? It gives deeper insight into how mentally unstable The Shredder is and how much hate he has. It's obviously his fault! That's the point. He's so blinded that he can't see that. He can only see enemies.

Emotions can be unstable when something happens to your child, adopted or not... he just saw the child he raised for 16+ years just get turned into an animal. Evil or not, that parental instinct still kicks in...

There are so many good things to say about this episode, and so many questions I have now about how this is going to affect the relationship between Splinter and his sons, his emotional state, how he's going to treat Leonardo after this..

I don't remember the Leo shot, so it looks like I've got some reading to do... but if the new season has them in Northampton, I'm very excited. :thyper:

CowabungaMikey

06-29-2014, 12:26 PM

Karai = Scaletail

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 12:30 PM

Waits for Mikey to try to nickname her and for Leo to demand otherwise...

saintsaucey

06-29-2014, 12:32 PM

Karai = Scaletail

Absolutely not.

Asha

06-29-2014, 12:32 PM

How do you figure that? It gives deeper insight into how mentally unstable The Shredder is and how much hate he has. It's obviously his fault! That's the point. He's so blinded that he can't see that. He can only see enemies.

Shredder wants to take away everything from Splinter and having losing Karai makes it worth less without her. He seems to have no one else in his life but her.

Jester

06-29-2014, 12:37 PM

Does poll option make anyone else think of...
http://debeduinos.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/cobra-kai-logo_new.gif

TigerClaw

06-29-2014, 12:37 PM

This is the closest we'll get to a mutant female in this series.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 12:39 PM

Emotions can be unstable when something happens to your child, adopted or not... he just saw the child he raised for 16+ years just get turned into an animal. Evil or not, that parental instinct still kicks in...I agree with this, but he still seems to have a problem with taking responsibility for his actions.

Jester

06-29-2014, 12:39 PM

This is the closest we'll get to a mutant female in this series.
Um....Because she is a mutant female in this show?

TigerClaw

06-29-2014, 12:39 PM

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 12:42 PM

Waits for Mikey to try to nickname her and for Leo to demand otherwise...TBH, I couldn't see Mikey even attempting to name her. It'll be like how Donnie got on him for trying to name Kirby Screwloose. Ciro is apparently maturing Mikey...this would show that he's not insensitive enough to give her a name, imo.

Rukitron

06-29-2014, 12:44 PM

I wish they'd stop mutating people left and right and most of the mutations outside of Turtles, Splinter, and some extent Leatherhead (despite rage issues) left everyone becoming mentally unstable jerks or mindless animals. They ran that down to the ground now...

MikeandRaph87

06-29-2014, 12:44 PM

I was wondering how outing the secret of Karai's parentage so soon in the series was going to effect the rest of it. I got my answer, mutate her. She was with the turtles all of ten minutes. Shall I be the first to ask how long will the mutation last? I just have this feeling that mutations are not permanent in this series.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 12:44 PM

I wonder if the result of mutated Karai's shape shifting abilities was the result of Baxter Stock accidentally dumping some chemicals into another.

Which resulted in that side affect.
I figured it was, but what the heck did he mix it with. o.O

Ciro is apparently maturing Mikey...this would show that he's not insensitive enough to give her a name, imo.
Good then, do hope you're right.

Metalwolf

06-29-2014, 12:46 PM

I wonder if the result of mutated Karai's shape shifting abilities was the result of Baxter Stock accidentally dumping some chemicals into another.

Which resulted in that side affect.More then likely that is what did it, otherwise she might have just looked normal as far as mutants go. I also think that it also made her have those serpent heads for hands.

Shredder is going to be on Baxter to make a retromutagen, I just know it.

TigerClaw

06-29-2014, 12:53 PM

JTH

06-29-2014, 12:56 PM

More then likely that is what did it, otherwise she might have just looked normal as far as mutants go. I also think that it also made her have those serpent heads for hands.

Shredder is going to be on Baxter to make a retromutagen, I just know it.
Also, Baxter is aware that Donnie knows how to create retro-mutagen after learning it from April.

It seems likely that another Donatello centric episode is coming with a dire need for retro-mutagen, and Mutagen Man arcs yet to be resolved. Perhaps he may be "persuaded" by the enemies to help...

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 12:58 PM

Also, Baxter is aware that Donnie knows how to create retro-mutagen after learning it from April.

It seems likely that another Donatello centric episode is coming with a dire need for retro-mutagen, and Mutagen Man arcs yet to be resolved. Perhaps he may be "persuaded" by the enemies to help...

"Persuaded" by enemies
What if that Leo one-shot is Shredder's threat to the Turtles for the retro mutagen?

Midnight Mutant

06-29-2014, 01:14 PM

I was extremely pleased with this episode. I was the most happy when Karai's mutation was original and not a remake of an older mutant.

I think with the shape shifting they will keep her a mutant longer than we expect them too. I think it's pretty cool, I kind of wonder if she will go back to the lair or if she will go for shredder.

Mikey was amazing in this. I've gotta say all of his screen time was amazing. Raph too.

More Shredder/Splinter fights are yes.

Loved more back story on Yoshi and Saki's childhood.

Shredder has more issues that I thought. He is so delusional and I think genuinely crazy. I love it because it adds to him being a really frightening villain. Someone who is powerful influentially, and physically and who is not mentally stable.
I've gotta say, I'm happy he's not just 'kill hamato! kill the turtles!' he is like 'I want to make them squirm and suffer and break them emotionally and spiritually...then we'll kill them' Damn.

I liked Karai's mutated design minus the hands. Snake hands was odd, I'd have loved huge claws or just hands myself.

I wonder if Donnie will become a target since he's made retro mutagen before and Shredder will be obsessed with getting it for Karai? I also wonder if the destruction of Baxter's lab will make the mutagen more scarce?

CowabungaMikey

06-29-2014, 01:18 PM

Absolutely not.

Why not? They look like each other.

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 01:21 PM

I noticed that Shredder is similar to Demona from Gargoyles both consumed by vengeance and wont admit it's there fault and blame someone else.

NoName999

06-29-2014, 01:26 PM

Amazing episode.

Did Chris Yost head write this?

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 01:30 PM

No Peter Di Cicco wrote it, he did an amazing job.

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 01:36 PM

Shredder is going to be on Baxter to make a retromutagen, I just know it.

That or Shredder learns Donnie is capable of making Retro-Mutagen. That way Shredder not only as a reliable (or at least more reliable then Stockman) means of creating the retro-mutagen but also a test subject.

LeotheLateBloomer

06-29-2014, 01:40 PM

This was a really epic episode. I loved how the Splinter and the turtles showed how much they cared for Karai in spite of what she's done. Mikey was even more mature in this episode by not choosing to name Karai. However, I am once again getting tired of yet another character becoming a mutant. I really hope that Don can cure her around the season finale. And hopefully, there won't be so many mutants in season three. Has it been said when the last four episodes will air?

MCLeo28

06-29-2014, 01:43 PM

Okay, so before I watch the episode (tbh, I watched the first few seconds of it), I will make my speculation first.

Speculation: There's a rat at the beginning, so it most likely foreshadows Karai getting mutated into a rat. Leo and the Turtles rescue Karai at the very beginning of the episode. Leo and Raph along w/ Karai get caught by Tiger Claw, but despite that, barely escape and in the process, Mikey's arm is injured (don't have an explanation.) Karai meditates next to Splinter as Splinter watches Leo and Mikey spar. Karai contemplates on getting revenge, so she goes out on her own to target the Shredder by herself. Leo realizes this and comes to save her, but eventually gets captured. Karai feels guilty and stages a rescue on her own to save Leo. She gets captured and Shredder keeps her at Baxter Stockman's lab (first promo shows Baxter's lab) to start her mutation. Splinter realizes Karai is missing and along with the other 3 turtles stages a rescue for both Karai and Leo and begin the fight against the Shredder.

Will post later after I watch the episode to post my thoughts.

JTH

06-29-2014, 01:46 PM

"Vengeance is Mine" IGN Review:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/29/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-vengeance-is-mine-review

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 01:52 PM

I moved some of the spoileriffic posts from the season two discussion to here. Have fun. :P :)

Thaaaanks!

Awesome ep guys let's revel in it ^__^

Raph's Girl

06-29-2014, 01:53 PM

This episode was... wow. Just WOW!! :o

The backstory of Saki and Yoshi being raised as brothers is somewhat similar to the 2K3 series which had Yoshi, Mashimi and Teng Shen being raised as siblings that lead to a love triangle gone horribly wrong.

And now Karai/Miwa is Hakuja no Myojin, the Japanese white serpent god.

http://www.sarudama.com/japanese_folklore/white_serpent_god.shtml

Also when Karai spit at Raph in the eye my first thought was "eye patch! eye patch!" then I was disapointed that there didn't seem to be any damage... :P

Midnight Mutant

06-29-2014, 01:53 PM

I can't help but wonder if the retro mutagen that Donnie made before will work on Karai since her mutation included an extra unknown chemical? o_o

Mutant Ninja Anole

06-29-2014, 01:57 PM

Never commented on a Nick toons thread before but:

Karai's form is kindof fascinating, and I like it, not sure about the snake hands. It's defintely more on the "Abomination against nature" type of mutant and less "cute animal person" some might have hoped. In that case, I think there's a good chance she gets cured, perhaps by an "Enemy Mine" between the Splinter and Shredder.

With regards to Shredder, I wouldn't call his blaming of Splinter bad writing, it's classic villainous cognitive dissonance and it's part of some of the greatest fictional villain ever IMHO. Of note for geeks like us: Dukat from Deep Space Nine and Demona from Gargoyles. Demona's character arc basically revolved around blaming other people for the results of her own increasingly destructive actions. At one point she actually says "What have I...what have THEY done?" Part of what makes a villain a villain is an unwillingness to see what's wrong about their actions.

Shredder blames Splinter because the truth is impossible for him to process.

JTH

06-29-2014, 01:57 PM

I can't help but wonder if the retro mutagen that Donnie made before will work on Karai since her mutation included an extra unknown chemical? o_o
I believe they can easily work around that.

Simply make it where they need a sample of Karai's venom for her retro-mutagen, just like they "thought" using April's DNA would restore her father to a human, only to find out it was the key to the retro-mutagen altogether.

kelligrafie

06-29-2014, 02:01 PM

I believe they can easily work around that.

Simply make it where they need a sample of Karai's venom for her retro-mutagen, just like they "thought" using April's DNA would restore her father to a human, only to find out it was the key to the retro-mutagen altogether.

They'll probably need a venom sample to cure Raph's eyes/blindness because it's obvious that's where we're going with him.

I wonder if Donnie will become a target since he's made retro mutagen before
It seems likely that another Donatello centric episode is coming with a dire need for retro-mutagen
I don't know if this will happen but I hope that's the case. It'll be nice to have a Donnie episode that doesn't feature April.

Metalwolf

06-29-2014, 02:13 PM

That or Shredder learns Donnie is capable of making Retro-Mutagen. That way Shredder not only as a reliable (or at least more reliable then Stockman) means of creating the retro-mutagen but also a test subject.True, but if he demutates Donnie he won't learn how it's created (so he could make more) or that 'extra ingredient' he needs to make it work. Otherwise he'll be like Donnie without it, always getting close but never quite getting there.

Plus I think he'd use one of his henchmen as a test subject first before having Donnie get demutated, since Donnie's knowledge is way too valuable to lose at this point. He'd also risk a revolt from his henchmen, since most (save for Tigerclaw) badly want to be human again and him demutating the retromutagen's creator, just might be the one thing that breaks their loyalty. I don't think Shredder wants to risk that just yet, at least not right away.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 02:29 PM

I kind of wonder if she will go back to the lair or if she will go for shredder.
With as animalistic as it seemed to make her, mentally speaking, imo I'm not even sure she's going to be trustworthy until they are hopefully able to help her. :\ And I was just starting to like her a bit... Should add an interesting element though for a bit.

Curious how she acts now in her human form... really feel there could be more deception added in there. Gains your trust as a human, snaps into snake mode and kills you. Yikes. lol

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 02:29 PM

I have my doubts that she will be retromutated.

Why else would they make it so she can change from human form to snake form? They want to have the best of both worlds.

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 02:29 PM

True, but if he demutates Donnie he won't learn how it's created (so he could make more) or that 'extra ingredient' he needs to make it work. Otherwise he'll be like Donnie without it, always getting close but never quite getting there.

Plus I think he'd use one of his henchmen as a test subject first before having Donnie get demutated, since Donnie's knowledge is way too valuable to lose at this point. He'd also risk a revolt from his henchmen, since most (save for Tigerclaw) badly want to be human again and him demutating the retromutagen's creator, just might be the one thing that breaks their loyalty. I don't think Shredder wants to risk that just yet, at least not right away.

Well knowing Donnie, he would probably keep the fact that he would need April's DNA for the retro mutagen. Because Stockman sort of knows April is immune to Mutagen, but only the Turtles know she's part Kraang so as far as Stockman knows it could have been just a fluke.

Also the Shredder would have someone like Tiger Claw keep a very close eye on Donnie, so refusal would be a very bad option.

Plus the Shredder is likely banking on the other Turtles and Splinter to come to Donnie's rescue so he would mostly threaten to test it on Donatello as a way of breaking Splinter, but in reality he would use it to turn Splinter human.

Vicky82

06-29-2014, 02:30 PM

Just noticed something

Did anyone find it disturbing, that when Karai was hanging above the mutagen, she was in a metal casket. :teek:

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 02:33 PM

Just noticed something

Did anyone find it disturbing, that when Karai was hanging above the mutagen, she was in a metal casket. :teek:
Yes! I commented that exact thing to myself when I saw it, that it looked like a casket. o.O

oldmanwinters

06-29-2014, 02:39 PM

Can anybody get me a screencap of the weapon listings that Donatello pulled up on the Shellraiser panel? Some of those looked potentially hilarious but I didn't get a long look at them.

Ursalink

06-29-2014, 02:50 PM

I'm really sad about what happened, but I would lie if I say I wasn't expecting something like this. Instead of instantly becoming an ally for the Turtles or stay with Shredder, becoming a "loose tip". I really wish there is some hope for Karai. I would really love to slash Shredder... Wolverine's style!!

I believe that, for the time being, Karai's going to be like Leatherhead. That means, she's a good character, but she can't control her "animal impulses"; just like Leatherhead can't control his reptilian rage. I suppose she will be cured at some point, as I believe the chemical mixed with the serpent DNA is what made possible for Karai to change forms between mutant and human. I know we saw her with snake's eyes and fangs, but maybe she's learning to control the shapeshifting. Maybe eventually, she will manage to shapeshift completely. I just want to have hope.

Powder

06-29-2014, 02:50 PM

This was a REALLY good episode but I was so certain that Karai was gonna be Venus that I set myself up to be disappointed. Not a fan of the whole Snake thing. A mutation is fine, but this particular one doesn't really appeal to me. I hope it's resolved quickly. I also hope she's referred to as Scaletail at some point. :trazz: Her moment with Splinter almost brought a tear to my eye, I was so happy for the family reunion. So sad how things turned out. Loved the flashback, should have had more of that. & in the moment when Snakarai spit venom at Raph's eye, my thought was "OMG YES THEY'RE GONNA GIVE HIM AN EYE PATCH LIKE ALL THE COMIC RAPHAELS", but alas, that was not the case. :tlol:

Allio

06-29-2014, 02:53 PM

Why did you spell that with an exclamation point?

to make you ask questions

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 02:53 PM

this episode was amazing....my only gripe is.....if your going to have Mikey get cut...then at least show some sort of cut XD and it was just his arm, why is it hard for him to walk when his arm was the part that was injured???

but other than that~

YES! I'm just glad Shredder cared >:D

also...dangit I'm finally used to Leo's new voice and it's gonna change again XD

Garfield

06-29-2014, 02:56 PM

Shredder blaming Splinter for Karai mutating was pretty stupid too. It's just lazy writing.

Shredder is not a lucid character. He is clearly out of touch with reality. Remember the episode in the past when The Kraang invaded the city, and Shredder first came in contact with post mutated Splinter and it didn't phase him. He was so obsessed with seeking revenge that he didn't care that his former human rival was now a mutant rat man. Or that the city was being invaded by alien squid/brain creatures from another dimension.

Remember when he got back from his trip and he saw Bradford in his new (Rahzar) transformation for the first time and his first reply was "You look terrible Bradford." like Bradford just had a really bad hair cut or got his clothes all muddy or something and not like he went from being a beefed up dog man to a boney wolf man.

Saki just isn't all there. He's really screwed up. It makes perfect sense that he'd blame Splinter because his narcissism is so grand that he's irrational.

MartiusR

06-29-2014, 02:57 PM

Can anybody get me a screencap of the weapon listings that Donatello pulled up on the Shellraiser panel? Some of those looked potentially hilarious but I didn't get a long look at them.

Sure, here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/bKWPka5.jpg

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 03:00 PM

The back story was interesting and it kinda put things into perspective for the Shredder's actions.

The Foot-clan and Hamato Clan were rivals and one day the Hamato Clan destroyed the Foot Clan. Hamato Yoshi's father found infant Oroku Saki and took pity on him, so he brought him to his clan so both Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki were raised together and thought of themselves as brothers.

Unfortunately their companionship changed when he met Teng Shen and learned that Hamato Yoshi was her chosen lover. And some time around this point, Oroku Saki also learned his adoptive family was responsible for his families murder. So he lashes out at Hamato Yoshi and accidentally kills Teng Shen. Then when he burns down the house and possibly kills the rest of the Hamato Clan (with the exception of Yoshi) he takes Miwa and raises her as part of the Foot clan. Partially as a tool for vengeance, but also as means of doing the same thing that Yoshi's family had done to him.

Shreddhead

06-29-2014, 03:19 PM

Poop T.N.T...... I want that feature on the toyline

TurFlytle

06-29-2014, 03:20 PM

And now Karai/Miwa is Hakuja no Myojin, the Japanese white serpent god.

http://www.sarudama.com/japanese_folklore/white_serpent_god.shtml

That's exactly what I thought when she shapeshifted!

oldmanwinters

06-29-2014, 03:20 PM

Sure, here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/bKWPka5.jpg

Hoo, that's amazing! Thanks so much!

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 03:21 PM

They'll probably need a venom sample to cure Raph's eyes/blindness because it's obvious that's where we're going with him.

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?

Midnight Mutant

06-29-2014, 03:24 PM

With as animalistic as it seemed to make her, mentally speaking, imo I'm not even sure she's going to be trustworthy until they are hopefully able to help her. :\ And I was just starting to like her a bit... Should add an interesting element though for a bit.

Curious how she acts now in her human form... really feel there could be more deception added in there. Gains your trust as a human, snaps into snake mode and kills you. Yikes. lol
This would make her pretty interesting. Kind of in a way make her an anti hero. Going after shredder, but not really being with the turtles because of these animalistic instincts are too dangerous and she kinda titters on humanity and inhumanity.

I have my doubts that she will be retromutated.

Why else would they make it so she can change from human form to snake form? They want to have the best of both worlds.
That was my thought too, or at least it won't happen for a while like it didn't happen with Kirby for a while.

in the moment when Snakarai spit venom at Raph's eye, my thought was "OMG YES THEY'RE GONNA GIVE HIM AN EYE PATCH LIKE ALL THE COMIC RAPHAELS", but alas, that was not the case. :tlol:
I wonder if they will touch on that again, like maybe he starts losing his eyesight or his eyesight in one eye. Maybe a patch will happen eventually??

Ninjawolf

06-29-2014, 03:26 PM

This episode was pretty amazing I mean WOW! poor Karai though... Though her mutant form is pretty awesome! But heck from Wrath of Tiger Claw on this Seasons been amazing. So looking forward to the next episodes but this and LoK made my weekend

TurFlytle

06-29-2014, 03:30 PM

Poop T.N.T...... I want that feature on the toyline

Explosive Poop, the worst combination ever!

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 03:30 PM

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?
I dunno, but it sure made me laugh my ass off at his reaction. Like a mixture of "omg yes!" and "is this wrong??". hahaha

Raph's Girl

06-29-2014, 03:38 PM

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

More than one comic. It's his destiny. He's lost an eye in Archie, Image, and Mirage comics. Plus we got eye patch Raph in the 2k3 series episode Same As It Never Was.

ranger_scout

06-29-2014, 03:39 PM

The show has been on a roll lately with its episodes. They really are getting very good and that was quite an ending to today's episode.

MartiusR

06-29-2014, 03:44 PM

I have a theory...Karai may stay mutated until/throughout Season 3 since Playmates said that "Mutated Karai" is coming out in 2015. Unless they're just making her since it's another mutant, I don't know.

I don't pay too much attention about this toy-thing (yes, I know, that it can be source of some plot-related/characters-related information, for example R&B, but still), but I think that probably you're right. I'm betting that there is a possibility, that we won't see anymore Karai/Miwa in this Season, or (more probably) we'll se her only for a while before/during "double" episode at the end. And how long it'll take in 3rd season until unfortunate Splinter's daughter will be cured? Probably we'll wait a loong time for this. Can't say I'm too happy about this mutation :(

This was a really epic episode. I loved how the Splinter and the turtles showed how much they cared for Karai in spite of what she's done. Mikey was even more mature in this episode by not choosing to name Karai. However, I am once again getting tired of yet another character becoming a mutant.

Yeah, generally the "family rejoice" was for sure one of the best parts of this ep.
You know, I didn't care too much about this mutating thing before (although I must admit, that I felt the lack of "human-enemies"), but now I can say, that I share your sentiment. Especially with such crucial character (not to mention that she is one of my favourite characters).

I really hope that Don can cure her around the season finale. And hopefully, there won't be so many mutants in season three. Has it been said when the last four episodes will air?

IMO this is the least possible option we can expect. About the remaining episodes - as far as I know, for now we don't have any more informations for now.

Now, wasn't there a comic where Raph was blind in one eye? Maybe they're going to do a little nod to that in the future.

So, now, in that one scene, did Leo seriously think Karai was going to kiss him or something?

Yeah, I had excactly the same impression (and this expression of Leo's face - priceless! :)).

(Hey, I've noticed that someone add to the tags of this thread " kissing cousins?". Guys, you've improved my mood today :))

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 03:46 PM

I'm thinking the finale is the Leo one-shot and the lair being destroyed.

Which will be a bit sad, because everyone who has gone there, had no problems making themselves at home in it.

Zulithe

06-29-2014, 03:51 PM

Raph should not lose an eye in this version. We already have Tiger Claw with one eye, that's plenty for one show!

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 03:52 PM

This is the closest we'll get to a mutant female in this series.

Doubtful. I'm expecting this thing to last a good 5 years or more. The second season hasn't even finished yet. Right now, I can totally see Irma turning into a mutant in the future. And more than likely, we will get Mona Lisa.

Originally Posted by Zulithe View Post
Raph should not lose an eye in this version. We already have Tiger Claw with one eye, that's plenty for one show!

I don't think he's going to lose an eye, but he might temporarily lose his vision, which could be a neat wink to both the comics where he had the missing eye, and the 1990 movie when the boys trained with their headbands over their eyes. It would be cool to see him having to fight someone leaning on other senses, and maybe even Leo giving him heads up on where to strike.

JH24

06-29-2014, 03:55 PM

Wow, what an episode. I don't know what to say. Everything seemed even at a higher quality than usual. Animation, voice acting (Dominic as Leo, everyone did such an amazing job), the music, writing, etc.

And then the ending. So sad but very well done. For me personally the best episode of season 2 so far, and definitely one of the best in the entire series at this point.

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 04:05 PM

I dunno, but it sure made me laugh my ass off at his reaction. Like a mixture of "omg yes!" and "is this wrong??". hahaha

In a sense, in this version, it is a bit twisted. After all, the Turtles have Splinter's particular human DNA to thank for their mutation, and he is the father of Karai, so, technically speaking, she is their biological sister in a way. Right.:-?

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl View Post
More than one comic. It's his destiny. He's lost an eye in Archie, Image, and Mirage comics. Plus we got eye patch Raph in the 2k3 series episode Same As It Never Was.

I just hope it's not permanent. I don't really want any of the Turtles to be disfigured. It's probably why I am not a fan of a page for page adaptation of the comics, I'm just not a fan of the comics in general.

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 04:15 PM

In a sense, in this version, it is a bit twisted. After all, the Turtles have Splinter's particular human DNA to thank for their mutation, and he is the father of Karai, so, technically speaking, she is their biological sister in a way. Right.:-?
Yeah, that's kind of how I've been looking at it/wondering as well. It would make sense if they still had the humanity in their DNA from Splinter - esp given that Spike/Slash turned humanoid as well - and so in some atypical round about way making them biologically connected to Splinter..? o.O Poor Leo, that is so awkward.

nimajneb

06-29-2014, 04:17 PM

What an amazing episode - the team really knock it out the park sometimes.
Brilliant narrative, great animation. Leo was 2k3 good in this ep!

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 04:30 PM

Mega Man

06-29-2014, 04:39 PM

It is a good episode. I wish the ending was different, but I have come to expect that things don't always work out for the turtles.

Really cool episode though. I like the flash back scene showing Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki.

If I was writing this show, here is what would have happened:

Turtles rescue Karai. She goes to fight Shredder like she does in the episode. That fight ends with Karai using technology from Donatello's lab to take over all of the Foot robots. Karai leaves with the Foot robots. A new version of the City at War story arc is set up for season 3, this time with Shredder's Foot Clan battling Karai's Foot Clan.

909 Turtle Fan

06-29-2014, 05:10 PM

saber16

06-29-2014, 05:24 PM

Gotta say, with all the speculation of her turning into a character from one of the past incarnations, the form they stuck with was truly unexpected and surprisingly works for the character and the story.
And hey, she can change back to human (for the most part), so fans who preferred her original design should be happy.

Design wise, I like it, but I think the snake hands are a little out of... ok, does anyone else get a Tim Burton vibe from it? Like, something out of Beetlejuice? If I was designing her, I would keep her hands as... hands, while I would make the snakes come out from her back or her sides. But if she can shape shift, it's possible she may develop a compromise between her two forms.

Overall, I enjoyed this episode. I agree with everyone who feels it was a little rushed, but it worked. Rather than spend the first half of the episode breaking her out, they could have gotten her out of there in "The Legend of Kuro Kabuto", rather than giving us the Karai-bomb. That way, the start of this episode could have focused more on her bonding with her family, we could have seen more preparation for Shredder's mutagen trap, and maybe more time dedicated to Karai's plot to slay the Shredder. If need be, they could have pushed "Plan 10" before these two episodes.

As for the "Will Splinter blame Leo in some way" thing... I can see it happening, but I really think Leo is the least guilty. The blame should go mostly to Shredder... and a little to Splinter. He said it himself, he told her to much to soon. Leo was the one who planned the rescue, the one who told the others Karai went to take on Shredder, and in the end he was the closest to freeing her from the cage.
I can understand Shredder pinning all the blame on Splinter, he's to far gone that all he has left to live for is his obsession with Splinter and revenge. Now, if Splinter does show any anger towards Leo, I hope they don't don't make him unbearably harsh towards him... I mean, given how many times he's brought up Raph's ill temper and carelessness and Shredder's misguided lust for revenge - It's a path to self destruction, and no one knows that better than him.

Oh, and one last thing... that glare he gave Shredder at the end... DAMN.

- One last... last thing - BAXTER'S STILL TALKS :D Now that would have been a nice option for the poll, "The fly still has a voice!" Seriously, anyone else think that when Baxter showed up?

Retro-Specs

06-29-2014, 05:38 PM

Now that was a well-made - and well anticipated episode. We've been waiting so long to see Karai's mutation, ever since almost a year ago when I started this thread: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=43602
I remember people were pretty adamant about her not becoming a mutant.

But man, were we off about the mutation. I know my wife and I kept thinking she'll be a cat, wolf or fox. A lot of people here were thinking Alopex, too (Ironically, she sort of ended up with Alopex's colours). But a snake? It just seems so unexpected. They kept it secret well.

One thing I'm really hoping is that she won't be mindless in the same way Kirby was. I'd like to see her still speak and act logically and intelligently. Perhaps gather some of the other mutants and make another attempt on Shredder. Also, we want to know the details behind the shape-shifting - is she more subject to instincts in her snake-form? Will her voice and actions be different in human form or would she be able to pass for a normal person when she wants/needs to be? Plus, I want to see her take on Tiger Claw again in snake form - he had the upper hand in their fights in this episode, so she ought to have a chance to even the score.

For the record though, we think she looks like a Pokémon...

One theory we had - and sorry if this has mentioned already - but that mutagen vat must be the same one April was dropped into. Perhaps her DNA contaminated the vat, adding the ability for a mutant to demutate themselves partially at will (I have a hard time seeing Baxter's spilled chemical being the sole cause of Karai's extra ability).

But, since she has the ability to change back, perhaps she will see no need for the retro-mutagen at all. If her human form is "stable" enough, then the snake form could be seen as a super power of sorts. But then we'll likely see a story line about her mutation becoming less and less stable and controllable and such.

Besides the obvious highlights of Karai's mutation, and uniting with Splinter before that, this episode had a lot of other things going for it. Great fight scenes, which are really making Tiger Claw grow on me, too. And the few bits of humour here and there were well placed, too.

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 05:43 PM

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? :trolleye: I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin. Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.

She's been raised her whole life to seek vengeance and that as made her just about as unhinged as the Shredder. So when she asks Splinter "Haven't you wanted vengeance?" Splinter answers with "I have come to see that vengeance only brings more sorrow?"

In her mind she feels to do nothing about Shredder's actions was cowardly act and the only way to stop the Shredder was to take him down for good. Where as if she had actually thought about it. Seeking vengeance against the Shredder would have caused more pain to the Hamato Clan, where as the Shredder's own evil would lead to his own ruin.

Metalwolf

06-29-2014, 05:43 PM

Karai is dumb, she gets rescued just to run right back! Man, girls are so emotional! She can't do any damage to Tigerclaw but she thinks she can take out the Shredder all by herself? :trolleye: I wish she would have been mutated into a turtle instead of a shape shifting Scaletail, worst mutation since Justin.She isn't emotional, but she is almost fatally over-confident. There is a difference. ;) Plus I don't like her mutation either, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do for now. Hopefully it turns out to be good for the story.

Hope Bebop and Rocksteady appear before the finale cause Fishface and Rahzar are weak sauce and need to go.That is what I think will happen when those two new guys appear. Xever and Bradford have been progressively getting nerfed and reduced into almost being morons, with Nick playing up the goofy doggyisms with Bradford and Xever becoming a sort of comedy relief. It's weird because they should be capable of getting better in their fighting (just as much as the Turtles do) but yet they're falling behind more and more. By now, Bradford should be about Tigerclaw's level and Xever should be about maybe Raph's level in skill. I'm guessing the fish mutation sucks for fighting and Bradford is slowly losing his humanity and skills to the mutation.

WhitefinDolphin

06-29-2014, 05:45 PM

Ugh. It's only been a few hours and I'm dying to know what happens next. I just keep re-watching Karai's mutation. It was probably the best executed scene in the show as of now, and the music just made it so **** heartbreaking. :'(

I concur!

I'm dying to know what's going to happen next. As much as I was anticipating Karai's mutation I feeling like we were left hanging, wondering what's going to happen next.

On another note: Has anyone pointed out an animation error in the scene where Karai falls into Splinter's arms? She falls into his arms facing up, but then Splinter in the next frames has to turn her around to face him.

Midnight Mutant

06-29-2014, 05:46 PM

As for the "Will Splinter blame Leo in some way" thing... I can see it happening, but I really think Leo is the least bit guilty. The blame should go mostly to Shredder... and a little to Splinter. He said it himself, he told her to much to soon. Leo was the one who planned the rescue, the one who told the others Karai went to take on Shredder, and in the end he was the closest to freeing her from the cage.
I can understand Shredder pinning all the blame on Splinter, it's just like he said in the season 1 final, he's to far gone that all he has left to live for is his obsession with Splinter and obsession with revenge. Now, if Splinter does show any anger towards Leo, I hope they don't don't make him unbearable harsh towards him... I mean, given how many times he's brought up Raph's ill temper and carelessness as well as the Shredder's misguided lust for revenge. It's a path to self destruction, and no one knows that better than him.

I think Splinter will blame Shredder and himself more than he will blame Leo. Splinter already admitted that Leo's rescue plan was worth it and after that, Leo didn't really do anything wrong.
Karai was the one that chose to leave. I think Splinter will blame himself for giving her the ammo and not convincing her enough to not seek revenge.
And as for Leo wanting to help and got left behind and later said 'I should have stopped her when I had the chance' Even if that scene had been Leo trying to stop her, Karai has bested him a few times and Splinter can't expect him to suddenly be way better than her or to not fall pray to her deception. (He's super trusting remember)

So, I feel Splinter will change and retract sure, but I feel it would be kind of ooc of him to soley blame Leo, if at all.

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 05:48 PM

I concur!

I'm dying to know what's going to happen next. As much as I was anticipating Karai's mutation I feeling like we were left hanging, wondering what's going to happen next.

On another note: Has anyone pointed out an animation error in the scene where Karai falls into Splinter's arms? She falls into his arms facing up, but then Splinter in the next frames has to turn her around to face him.

I saw that, I just haven't said anything about it because it's not that big of a deal. THAT SCENE THOUGH WAS TERRIBLE. SPLINTER WAS BROKEN BY THAT. I loved that brief scene when Shredder and Splinter were staring each other down, and you could see the fire in Splinter's eyes because Shredder just mutated his daughter. I think in the next few episodes that we're about to see, Splinter's gonna go completely over the edge and he's gonna hit Shredder with everything he's got.

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 05:51 PM

This could be something different for a change, instead of the usual Leo and Raph get into a verbal fight. And if Leo is getting yelled at by Splinter, something like that could do horrors to a child's mentality. I can definitely see why he would be caught off guard. (I never was a fan that Leo was out training alone and that's how he got caught. Especially with the thought of the Foot out on the hunt for them. It's just so, un Leo like)

Another option would be Donnie and Leo getting the into the argument. Because if they seem to be playing up Leo's relationship with Karai as a juxtaposition of Donnie's relationship with April.

For example: The other Turtles for the most part are supportive of Donnie's feelings for April, but otherwise feel he is deluding himself into believing in something that will never happen

With Karai, none of the Turtles are supportive of Leo's companionship with her, and feel that nothing good would come from it.

April is an outsider, but the Turtles and Splinter have welcomed her into their home and have treated her like she is part of the family.

Karai on the other hand is their adoptive sister and by technicality biological sister. And the Turtles are all hesitant about welcoming her into their lair even after learning she is Splinter's daughter.

In Alien agenda, when Donnie learns about Karai's existence he says "I don't know who she is, but I KNOW I HATE HER!!" and for someone like Donnie to use a word like "Hate" towards someone is not a idle thing.

He was the only one of the Turtles who was visibly angry with Leo about not informing them about Karai. Raph was disappointed and Mikey was more confused as to what transpired. And his statement of "I'm surprised you didn't trust us enough to tell us. Could be interpreted as "I'm surprised you didn't trust *me* enough to tell me about this."

In Enemy of My Enemy Donnie is the one who leads Raph and Mikey away after Karai jumps into the water to save the Shredder. And he's later shown attempting to comfort Leo about the whole ordeal.

Donnie clearly has no trust for Karai and with good reason as Karai has hurt and tried to kill the girl he loves at least twice. However he does trust Leo enough to try and see things from Leo's point of view, or at least tries to believe that maybe Leo could be right about her. And because of that it is going against his better judgement regarding her.

he knows Karai is Splinter's missing daughter, and he knows she should be with her true family. But unlike April and her father, it's questionable as to whether Karai is trust worthy enough to reunite with her true father because she has been raised to think of Splinter has the man who murdered her family.

And now she is a creature that hunts and kills creatures like Splinter. While she was able to keep her mind enough to recognize Splinter as her father. She is other wise an unpredictable monster and her loss has hurt Splinter and their family greatly.

So even though he is able to create retromutagen, he knows a lot more **** will go down before he can create it. So he would have a hard time agreeing with Leo's actions based on faith alone and that would lead to contention between the two calmer brothers.

OrokuYoshiFilms

06-29-2014, 05:58 PM

I... freaking....love.... Tiger Claw.

Whenever he's around there's great action and his music is awesome. *DUNNNNNN......DUNNNNNN*

That being said this episode was incredible. At the end was anyone else like "Nooooooooooooo.....how could you...!!!!" and then like "Oh okay well at least there's that..."

BabyTurtles

06-29-2014, 06:00 PM

WhitefinDolphin

06-29-2014, 06:01 PM

I saw that, I just haven't said anything about it because it's not that big of a deal. THAT SCENE THOUGH WAS TERRIBLE. SPLINTER WAS BROKEN BY THAT. I loved that brief scene when Shredder and Splinter were staring each other down, and you could see the fire in Splinter's eyes because Shredder just mutated his daughter. I think in the next few episodes that we're about to see, Splinter's gonna go completely over the edge and he's gonna hit Shredder with everything he's got.

Oh yes, I know. I was just wondering.

Oh yeah, it was absolutely the most emotional episode so far. Yes, I wonder if Splinter is going to seek revenge for this too. Ironically it would be something he was advising Miwa not to do in the first place.

BubblyShell22

06-29-2014, 06:01 PM

Whoa. What an episode! I loved everything about it. The rescue went great, and while Splinter was mad at them, he changed his tune when he saw his daughter. The hug between them was sweet and I loved how the plan went off without a hitch. I can see why Karai would want revenge because she knows that Shredder lied to her and killed her mother, so it makes sense she'd want to avenge her mom while Splinter feels it's not right to do something like that. I loved more of the backstory on Saki and Yoshi and now finally understand why Shredder is the way he is. I think Leo did want to go with Karai on his own, but he ended up not doing so. I loved how Karai leaned into him and he looked kind of awkward like, "Okay, I have no idea what's going on right now." It was great. I loved how Splinter went with them to save Karai and also loved Shredder's plan though it totally backfired.

Karai's mutation was awesome, and I love it and how she can shape shift into her human form. I think it was definitely due to what Baxter put in there by accident, and that's a good thing in my book. I know it's not going to be easy for the Turtles from here on out and they'll just have to deal with what's happened.

As for Shredder blaming Splinter, it makes sense as he's the type to not want to take responsibility for his actions and wants to blame everyone else even though it's his fault. I know of people who are like this and can relate to it in some way with having to deal with people like that. He just doesn't want to let go of his hatred and vows to take care of Splinter. I have a feeling the Leo one shot will happen soon and that the reason for it is Karai's mutation and as a way to get back at Splinter.

I don't think Splinter will totally blame Leo, but I can see Leo blaming himself for it and wanting to have some time to himself which leads him to go out alone and thus get attacked.

Overall, an awesome episode. I know we have to wait a month, but I have a feeling the time will fly by as it always does and then we'll have new episodes again.

MrTMNT2012

06-29-2014, 06:06 PM

This episode seriously had the potential to be my favourite....oh well, still can't wait for the next few episodes to see that Leo one-shot!

ObiWanFan4life

06-29-2014, 06:06 PM

MrTMNT2012

06-29-2014, 06:10 PM

I will say this though, the voice acting was at an all-time high! I got chills from that exchange between Hoon Lee's Splinter and Kevin's Shredder after Karai got mutated. :)

terrorblade

06-29-2014, 06:17 PM

Mikey's arm getting slashed and Karai spitting venom in Raph's eye is probably a nod to SAINW.

Powder

06-29-2014, 06:22 PM

No, it's a nod to the comics, if anything, as in every version Raphael loses an eye at some point.

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 06:27 PM

This episode seriously had the potential to be my favourite....oh well, still can't wait for the next few episodes to see that Leo one-shot!

That Leo one-shot has got me so excited. I hope it's the finale. It's always been one of my favorite story arcs, and with the way they did the darkness of this episode, I think this version will be the best one yet. Instead of destroying April's place, they'll probably take out the Turtle lair.

Shark_Blade

06-29-2014, 07:18 PM

Absolutely love this episode. :tlove: Didn't expect Karai's mutation... wait, I kinda did cause Shredder was planning to mutate "someone" in the last-ish episode, but when he said he only planned for Karai as bait, I kinda dismiss that thought.

And Leorai... :teek: OMGoshhh *melts* .///.

http://i.imgur.com/0gEbaaz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2b70JPB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PYfYVHU.jpg

Snake Karai kinda reminds me of Jafar.

Is no-one going to mention the Leo ass shot?
What you mean this? :tlol:

http://i.imgur.com/uNkeE6B.jpg

Please, tell me if Mutagen Man appears or not.
Pfft haha who cares about that annoying doofus.

They forget about him during The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman (when they only care about demutating Kirby and Splinter back to human form) and they just don't care about him. And not a word about him even now. Seriously he can stay a statue forever, a fitting demise. :lol:

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 07:39 PM

Girls are so emotional?? Have you seen Shredder lately?I know, right? He has permanent PMS. :lol:

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 07:41 PM

And Leorai... :teek: OMGoshhh *melts* .///.
lol LOVED his reaction. Then poor thing knocked out on his face...

So... you think she's gonna eat any citizens of the city or is she gonna cure it's rat problem instead...

Luckyday

06-29-2014, 07:47 PM

Almost makes me wish to see Rat King come back to have stand off with Kobrakarai.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 07:50 PM

Hm, so maybe the Rat King'll show up again.

Since Karai's mind is kind of...gone at times, think she'll attack people...like a certain girl with glasses who will get rescued by the Turtles, finally meeting them? *crosses fingers*

Ninjinister

06-29-2014, 07:50 PM

Not in a million years, did I figure Karai would become Albino Tryclyde. What a stunning development.

Drose18

06-29-2014, 07:58 PM

I wish they just killed off karai. She annoys me in this show and now she creeps me out.

Hm, so maybe the Rat King'll show up again.

Since Karai's mind is kind of...gone at times, think she'll attack people...like a certain girl with glasses who will get rescued by the Turtles, finally meeting them? *crosses fingers*

They should kill of Irma too.

Ninjinister

06-29-2014, 08:09 PM

I wish they just killed off karai. She annoys me in this show and now she creeps me out.

They should kill of Irma too.

Homie, you've got problems.

Powder

06-29-2014, 08:10 PM

Do you hate girls or something?

Donatello19

06-29-2014, 08:14 PM

Foombamaroom

06-29-2014, 08:34 PM

Also, after Karai kinda flirted with Leo and knocked him out, they showed him smiling in his sleep...what was that boy thinking about, hm? :lol:

He was dreaming about things that they can't show on Nick. ;)

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 08:35 PM

Did anyone else notice Donnie drinking milk from the carton when they got back from rescuing Karai? I thought that was funny. Also, after Karai kinda flirted with Leo and knocked him out, they showed him smiling in his sleep...what was that boy thinking about, hm? :lol:

Yeah, I actually had to roll my eyes and go "MEN". Doesn't matter what species or cross species they are, they always got one thing on their mind.

So, when are we going to have Irma meet the Turtles? Will it be this season? I wonder if she and Casey are going to join the Turtles when they have to get out of the city.

And if/when Karai comes back, and say she and April have a fight, who is going to be the first to try and stop it? Donnie, Leo? Maybe even Raph or Mikey? Or, it could be interesting to see Karai get hands on mad at Casey and Donnie for objectifying April.

Electric

06-29-2014, 08:45 PM

The way Karai mutated was perfect. First, she says "thanks" after all this time.
Then technically it was shredder who dropped her, but Leo was right there, so it's easy for him to blame himself, and easy for shredder to blame splinter. The lack of music made it so dramatic, and loved how both shredder and splinter called out for her.

Love that she cAn be human still, just wonder how she's going to use it. Not of fan of her snake voice though, barely recognizable as her human voice.

I'm glad that Mikey mentioned retro mutagen, because to me, that's their way of introducing the idea of her demutatinh. I know it might be awhile, but I took this as it will happen eventually.

Great episode, first one with dominic where I could focus on things other than leos voice, so bonus.

drgon78

06-29-2014, 08:47 PM

I hope they do de-mutate her before the end of season 3 if not a little sooner.

Electric

06-29-2014, 08:51 PM

I hope they do de-mutate her before the end of season 3 if not a little sooner.

I doubt they will, only because what would they do with her? I can't see her going out in the woods with the turtles, and she's certainly not going to stay with shredder. Her mutation allows her to still have a plot before she just all in lives with the turtles

Warhorse

06-29-2014, 08:54 PM

I doubt they will, only because what would they do with her? I can't see her going out in the woods with the turtles, and she's certainly not going to stay with shredder. Her mutation allows her to still have a plot before she just all in lives with the turtles

Ahhh, but here's the clencher. If we are indeed getting a Shredder Strikes Back, where the lair will get destroyed, where are they all going to live after that? Except for Mr O Niel, they really don't have adult friends that they can truly run to when in desperate need.

Ninjinister

06-29-2014, 09:04 PM

Yeah, I actually had to roll my eyes and go "MEN". Doesn't matter what species or cross species they are, they always got one thing on their mind.

Maybe if they're a stock TV character. Lord knows I know more women and girls that think about that sort of thing more often.

Ahhh, but here's the clencher. If we are indeed getting a Shredder Strikes Back, where the lair will get destroyed, where are they all going to live after that? Except for Mr O Niel, they really don't have adult friends that they can truly run to when in desperate need.

Kurtzman's still around. Murakami too but he's always getting his place trashed.

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 09:14 PM

I agree, the mutation gives Karai an excuse to not change status quo. While I agree Shredder's status quo does seem to change a bit.... for the heroes, it's always gonna be mainly Splinter and the Turtles. Yeah, they have April and now Casey, but they don't live with them and they can have episodes without them. The show will never be Splinter, the Turtles and Slash... or Splinter, the Turtles and Karai. There's always gonna be some excuse somewhere so that the extra characters can 'go away'. It kinda reminds me of the 90's X-Men cartoon where they had their set group, and whenever they ran into another character that comicswise is a member of the team, would find some excuse or reason to not have them join the team.

Which is why I like comics and anime a bit more when it comes to things like this. They would have allowed Slash and/or Karai to stay with the team for at least a story arc or two before stuff would cause them to leave.

Electric

06-29-2014, 09:20 PM

Ahhh, but here's the clencher. If we are indeed getting a Shredder Strikes Back, where the lair will get destroyed, where are they all going to live after that? Except for Mr O Niel, they really don't have adult friends that they can truly run to when in desperate need.

probably out in the woods. we know theyre going there at some point, so i imagine theyll be out there for a few episodes, then return to city, and either deem the old lair safe again, or able to fix, or find a new lair, like they did in 2k3

IndigoErth

06-29-2014, 09:34 PM

I hope they fix it up, I like their place. :\ And I still wanna see the rooms of those we haven't seen yet.

Too bad I guess Karai prob won't be going with them when they leave the city. While the boys could go do their quests from that concept art she could have had the opportunity for her and her father to bond a bit in the meantime just the two of them.

Coola Yagami

06-29-2014, 09:43 PM

I'm afraid they will get a whole new lair.... that looks exactly like the old one... and have all the characters act like it's a whole new different place they've never been before.

Mutant Ninja Anole

06-29-2014, 09:48 PM

Probably already been said, but I can't believe I forgot to comment on the parallels, with Shredder accidentally killing Tang Shen trying to get to Yoshi, then mutating his daughter trying to get to him again. And both times he shifts the blame.

There's also an underlying them in which vengeance poisons everything. Karai stupidly goes after Shredder alone in search of revenge, Shredder attempts to take revenge and ends up mutating Karai, then ironically swears vengeance for her.

If there's a conflict between the turtles and Karai when they meet, then it will be either because she has lost her mind or is lost in a quest for revenge against the Shredder.

A possible thought: Perhaps the two sides become a Jekell and Hyde personality and the more she lets her rage against Saki dominate her, the more she loses the human side. Just a thought.

For now, if she's aware enough to notice it, she should appreciate being to change back. I mean, snakes for hands. That would be a nightmare to live with.

"Okay, it's settled, let's shake hands-doh! Sorry! Oh you really ought to got to the hospital for that."

Drose18

06-29-2014, 09:53 PM

Do you hate girls or something?

No not at all, I just don't like this incarnation of karai and I don't like Irma as a character. I like the April in this show.

I'm afraid they will get a whole new lair.... that looks exactly like the old one... and have all the characters act like it's a whole new different place they've never been before.

This would be funny to see I doubt it will happen tho. I think theyll keep their lair.

As for the place to stay at if they lose the lair I think Kurtzman would help if not maybe Mr Oneil could help.
EDIT: Splinter might have friends from when he was human.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 10:14 PM

I just thought of something. What if Karai goes after Shredder and Leo? The last thing she saw were those two as she fell into the mutagen. Her mind isn't fully there anymore, so she may blame them. Like the cockroach terminator and how it remembered being attacked by Raph.

JTH

06-29-2014, 10:15 PM

EDIT: Splinter might have friends from when he was human.
Boy, that would turn this show into some Sitcom Crash TV Comedy there. :lol:

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 10:18 PM

Boy, that would turn this show into some Sitcom Crash TV Comedy there. :lol:I wish they would've explained why Yoshi came to New York. It's not like he was fleeing like in the other incarnations, and I'm under the impression he wasn't hanging around the sewers either prior to his mutation.Kurtzman's still around. Murakami too but he's always getting his place trashed.I still feel iffy about Kurtzman...like there's something he's hiding.

CyberCubed

06-29-2014, 10:32 PM

I'm surprised Coola Yagami didn't complain they brought back Chrome Dome again as Bradford's armor.

Didn't the Kraang create Chrome Dome in this show? I wonder how Shredder got it.

fridaynightdestination

06-29-2014, 10:35 PM

I loved the look on Leo's face when Karai got all up close and personal with him before knocking him out :lol:

Electric

06-29-2014, 10:36 PM

I'm surprised Coola Yagami didn't complain they brought back Chrome Dome again as Bradford's armor.

Didn't the Kraang create Chrome Dome in this show? I wonder how Shredder got it.

im surprised you didnt complain that karai didnt turn into a character from the 80s toon

speaking of chrome dome, kinda cool they brought him back, even if just for a few seconds for karai to stab him

CyberCubed

06-29-2014, 10:38 PM

I don't like the idea of Karai being a mutant, but seeing her change back into human form at the end of the episode makes me think this has potential.

At least it won't be a repeat of Kirby-bat, which looking back...was a pretty dumb idea and went nowhere.

victory_angel

06-29-2014, 10:46 PM

I wish they would've explained why Yoshi came to New York. It's not like he was fleeing like in the other incarnations, and I'm under the impression he wasn't hanging around the sewers either prior to his mutation.I still feel iffy about Kurtzman...like there's something he's hiding.

Due to how hesitant he sounded when Kurai asked him "If he ever wanted vengeance" I think he did want vengeance at one point, to make Oroku Saki pay for destroying his clan and family. But for the time being he needed to go away from Japan because as long as he stayed in his home country he would be hunted. But after suddenly and fortuitously becoming a father again he realizes that he would gain nothing by seeking vengeance because it would only bring more sorrow. Where as his sons gave him a something to live for, protect, and cherish.

But he also knew that there will come a day his son's would have to face the Shredder, but he wanted that to be when they were older and much more experienced.

Tora

06-29-2014, 10:59 PM

So I wonder if new Karai is based on Scale Tail?

http://img1.etsystatic.com/019/1/7779749/il_570xN.495019141_r3e1.jpg

CyberCubed

06-29-2014, 11:01 PM

No, she looked nothing like Scale Tail. It's like saying Dr. Cobrato in the original cartoon was Scale Tail just because he was also a mutant snake.

Or like saying Tiger Claw and Old Hob are the same because they're both cats with eye patches.

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

06-29-2014, 11:11 PM

Dang man that was a crazy episode! So can Karai basically shapeshift between forms or something?

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 11:28 PM

I bet that the next episode will have either Leo or Splinter having a nightmare over the incident with Karai.Dang man that was a crazy episode! So can Karai basically shapeshift between forms or something?Yeah, she was being held over a vat of mutagen. She was being used as bait for Splinter and the turtles. Something spilled in due to Baxter's clumsiness. After that, Shredder cut the chain accidentally causing her to fall in. She mutated into a snake mutant, but can shapeshift back to her human form...minus the eyes and the fangs.

ssjup81

06-29-2014, 11:37 PM

Another option would be Donnie and Leo getting the into the argument. Because if they seem to be playing up Leo's relationship with Karai as a juxtaposition of Donnie's relationship with April.

For example: The other Turtles for the most part are supportive of Donnie's feelings for April, but otherwise feel he is deluding himself into believing in something that will never happen

With Karai, none of the Turtles are supportive of Leo's companionship with her, and feel that nothing good would come from it.

April is an outsider, but the Turtles and Splinter have welcomed her into their home and have treated her like she is part of the family.

Karai on the other hand is their adoptive sister and by technicality biological sister. And the Turtles are all hesitant about welcoming her into their lair even after learning she is Splinter's daughter.

In Alien agenda, when Donnie learns about Karai's existence he says "I don't know who she is, but I KNOW I HATE HER!!" and for someone like Donnie to use a word like "Hate" towards someone is not a idle thing.

He was the only one of the Turtles who was visibly angry with Leo about not informing them about Karai. Raph was disappointed and Mikey was more confused as to what transpired. And his statement of "I'm surprised you didn't trust us enough to tell us. Could be interpreted as "I'm surprised you didn't trust *me* enough to tell me about this."

In Enemy of My Enemy Donnie is the one who leads Raph and Mikey away after Karai jumps into the water to save the Shredder. And he's later shown attempting to comfort Leo about the whole ordeal.

Donnie clearly has no trust for Karai and with good reason as Karai has hurt and tried to kill the girl he loves at least twice. However he does trust Leo enough to try and see things from Leo's point of view, or at least tries to believe that maybe Leo could be right about her. And because of that it is going against his better judgement regarding her.

he knows Karai is Splinter's missing daughter, and he knows she should be with her true family. But unlike April and her father, it's questionable as to whether Karai is trust worthy enough to reunite with her true father because she has been raised to think of Splinter has the man who murdered her family.

And now she is a creature that hunts and kills creatures like Splinter. While she was able to keep her mind enough to recognize Splinter as her father. She is other wise an unpredictable monster and her loss has hurt Splinter and their family greatly.

So even though he is able to create retromutagen, he knows a lot more **** will go down before he can create it. So he would have a hard time agreeing with Leo's actions based on faith alone and that would lead to contention between the two calmer brothers.I don't find it too likely, but it would be nice. I really would like these two to have some legit conflict.

victory_angel

06-30-2014, 12:13 AM

I don't find it too likely, but it would be nice. I really would like these two to have some legit conflict.

Who knows, we've had two supposed SaiNW references with Mikey getting his arm slashed...(I know Mikey loses his arm, but dismemberment might be a bit much) and venom being spit into Raph's eye which could cause him to go blind in that eye be it permanently or temporarily.

Now all we need is Leo to go blind, and Donnie to disappear. A conflict between these two would be a good lead in to a Same as it Never Was plot or a Good Gene's plot, due to the conflict leaving the other feeling some regret after wards such as Raph's "It's all my fault" after Leo's abduction. Or the cliche making up and then **** happens to one of the people involved in the issue. Such as Karai realizing which side she should be on, and then being abducted.

Toadtrooper

06-30-2014, 12:42 AM

A new version of the City at War story arc is set up for season 3, this time with Shredder's Foot Clan battling Karai's Foot Clan.

That's probably still going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if Miwa has a hypnotic power and can lure lesser-minded mutants to side with her. Maybe starts with Baxter and somehow acquires Bebop and Rocksteady.

I don't think they'll make her an outright villain. She probably will believe with her new powers she's superior to both Splinter and Shredder, both of whom are bound by tradition. She's more progressive. Her style and appearance hinted at it and now she can take it to a new level.

Coola Yagami

06-30-2014, 01:14 AM

I'm surprised Coola Yagami didn't complain they brought back Chrome Dome again as Bradford's armor.

Didn't the Kraang create Chrome Dome in this show? I wonder how Shredder got it.

It was such a short and pathetic little scene for it, I really didn't give a damn. Maybe later they'll see he needs to be upgraded and looks more... Chrome Dome-ish.

Electric

06-30-2014, 01:20 AM

Don't know if it's been discussed, but in Karai and shredders fight scene, I think the best moment was when she threw shuriken at him. When he caught one, he saw it wasn't her usual ones, and had the hamato symbol on it, and it seemed to really upset him, since he knew she was officially on the other side.

In fact, shredder caring for her was probably the best part of the episode. Having both him and splinter call out for her when she mutated, promising revenge for her, still referring to her as daughter. It made everything so much more dramatic and I think is why this episode had such an impact on viewers.

ShredderX633

06-30-2014, 01:38 AM

Sighphi

06-30-2014, 03:32 AM

Whatever happens next, I hope with all my faith Karai will be restored to normal. Nick went way too far into mutating her into a freak. How can they do this to Karai like that?!:cry: They better save her soon it's such a shame that she had to turn into a friggen snake of all things.

Dude, she is the best kind of mutant. A mutant that can turn back to human form. Now she has the power to take down Jango Katt. The whole episode showed how ineffective she was against him and now she will actually get payback because she is able to.

Netkeeper

06-30-2014, 03:43 AM

Like I said: were-snake.

NitpickingMask

06-30-2014, 03:54 AM

pennydreadful

06-30-2014, 04:20 AM

Just watched it - OH MY FREAKING GOD, MY FEELS!!!

http://media.giphy.com/media/dKdvhIT0Ryebu/giphy.gif

Seriously, best episode of the season (so far)!!! I love that Shredder had sadface over Karai being mad at him, and he was so devastated about the mutation! And that Splinter/Karai hug, and the look on Splinter's face when he saw what had happened to Karai...

Seriously, I feel like I need to smoke a post-coital cigarette after watching this thing! It was incredible!

Ok, now I'm gonna go and read back through the thread to see what everyone else though - I just had to fangirl all over the place as soon as I finished watching. :D

MartiusR

06-30-2014, 04:52 AM

Love that she cAn be human still, just wonder how she's going to use it. Not of fan of her snake voice though, barely recognizable as her human voice.

I'm betting that she'll use this in future to confuse both sides (and maybe we'll see the scene, where she'll change forms under influence of some emotions, maybe meeting the Splinter? After all, it seems that she's for now "Kirby-style" mutant, without sanity and only with some glimpses in memory, and I expect that Splinter will influence on her in quite similar way as April on Wingnut)... And generally, after watching this ep I presume, that she'll generally use this ability in practical way (during fight she'll take the snake-form, but moving through the city will be much easier with nimble "human-form").

I'm glad that Mikey mentioned retro mutagen, because to me, that's their way of introducing the idea of her demutatinh. I know it might be awhile, but I took this as it will happen eventually.

Yeah, have hope for it too. Just can't imagine her to be left in this state permanently :( By the way - I'm wondering if there will be other final of this case than simple de-mutating. I wouldn't be surprised, if it would worked only partially(after all, it's not the "simple" mutation with normal mutagen) - for example she will be sane back, but still will have this "shaping-change" ability (will she be able to use it intentionally or not - that's a debatable thing), and temporaly losing the control (+ Splinter teaching her about "taming her inner beast" :)). It's only my speculation though, time will tell how much accurate.

pennydreadful

06-30-2014, 05:20 AM

One theory we had - and sorry if this has mentioned already - but that mutagen vat must be the same one April was dropped into. Perhaps her DNA contaminated the vat, adding the ability for a mutant to demutate themselves partially at will (I have a hard time seeing Baxter's spilled chemical being the sole cause of Karai's extra ability)

Good thought, Retro - myself, I hadn't even thought of that. Maybe April will end up being the key to de-mutating Karai?

Probably already been said, but I can't believe I forgot to comment on the parallels, with Shredder accidentally killing Tang Shen trying to get to Yoshi, then mutating his daughter trying to get to him again. And both times he shifts the blame.

There's also an underlying them in which vengeance poisons everything. Karai stupidly goes after Shredder alone in search of revenge, Shredder attempts to take revenge and ends up mutating Karai, then ironically swears vengeance for her.

If there's a conflict between the turtles and Karai when they meet, then it will be either because she has lost her mind or is lost in a quest for revenge against the Shredder.

A possible thought: Perhaps the two sides become a Jekell and Hyde personality and the more she lets her rage against Saki dominate her, the more she loses the human side. Just a thought.

Absolutely - I loved the coming-full-circle theme of this episode, and it absolutely kicked ass seeing some more of Saki and Yoshi's back story.

I wish they would've explained why Yoshi came to New York. It's not like he was fleeing like in the other incarnations, and I'm under the impression he wasn't hanging around the sewers either prior to his mutation.

Maybe we'll find out more about why he came to New York in future episodes? They've kind of been dropping little bits of info on us through flashbacks throughout the seasons, so far... I'm sure they've got some more goodies stored up for us.

Don't know if it's been discussed, but in Karai and shredders fight scene, I think the best moment was when she threw shuriken at him. When he caught one, he saw it wasn't her usual ones, and had the hamato symbol on it, and it seemed to really upset him, since he knew she was officially on the other side.

In fact, shredder caring for her was probably the best part of the episode. Having both him and splinter call out for her when she mutated, promising revenge for her, still referring to her as daughter. It made everything so much more dramatic and I think is why this episode had such an impact on viewers.

Agreed, I love that they've given Shredder this added dimension to his character - it really humanizes him to me, and puts me in a position I never thought I'd ever be in... feeling sorry for the Shredder!

Seriously, this episode was wonderful. I mean, I've gone from disliking Karai the first time I watched the series to having her be one of my top favourite characters in the show. It was fantastic to see her getting an episode where we got to know her better - seeing her with the guys and Splinter was great... and now I have to wait ages to find out what happens to her!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj1a2rmLGF1qar70f.gif

Poor Karai... where is she going to live? How is she going to survive as a feral snake-girl? I have this awful image of her sleeping in some cold, damp drainpipe, eating rats!!!