Is the Teenage in the title holding the Turtle back in non comic versions?

[Warhorse]

Many of us, while we grew up on the Fred Wolf cartoon, have been wanting to see the TMNT portrayed a bit more seriously, but they have been forever held back due to what the Fred Wolf cartoon set in motion. But, is the FW cartoon to blame, when the title itself has Teenage in it?

It just seems, the cartoons will not go beyond the teenage years of the boys, allowing them to branch out like The X-Men, Batman and other comic book properties. Do you think we will ever see a version in our lifetime that depicts the Turtles well after their teen years? Or will this be for a long time now, it's fate resting in the hands of soccer moms and studio execs not seeing past the Teenage aspect?

[IndigoErth]

I kinda wish they would have left it out of the movie title, since those models feel more like adults, but people would never have had that, as petty as a title detail is. I could see another movie doing it some day... depending on how many sequels this one does maybe they'll actually allow it to go there.

Personally, after 30 years of the franchise I would love the idea of them being able to be portrayed as adults, as if our childhood heroes also grew up like their original fans did.

[CyberCubed]

No. This is an absurd thread. Most superheroes are teenagers.

Spiderman is a teenager, the X-men start off as teenagers. The only exception is probably Batman who is always shown to be at least 25 when he wears the cape and cowl.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

"The Beach Boys" band aren't known as "The Beach Men", are they?:lol:

[Warhorse]

No. This is an absurd thread. Most superheroes are teenagers.

Spiderman is a teenager, the X-men start off as teenagers. The only exception is probably Batman who is always shown to be at least 25 when he wears the cape and cowl.

They are?

Captain America
Wonder Woman
Superman
Thor
Ironman
The Hulk
Dare Devil
Fantastic Four
The Punisher

And Spider-Man may have started out as a teenager, but he went on to become an adult, and the movies themselves are mature, not kidified like so much of TMNT has been. That's my point, is the Teenage in their title holding them back from moving on from the same origins story being told again, and again and again? And I'd love to see a TMNT in the fashion of a more mature movie like the X-Men films are (I'd really love it if it was like Kick Ass) but like I said, it seems to be held back because the Turtles are seeing more for the young kids instead of teenagers or young adults.

And, are we ever going to see a more serious approach in our life time? Maybe, maybe not.

[IndigoErth]

No. This is an absurd thread.

the X-men start off as teenagers.
So it's only ok for the X-Men? :P

[JamieH]

Most superheroes as they may be known to the general public are teenagers. I'm not really sure of that because of the movies. Anyways, as most superheroes are now, and have been for the past 30 or so odd years, they're adults.

It may be slow, and there may be retcons, but comic characters from the big 2 do develop here and there.

As for the "Teenage" part to the Turtles title, I think it does have an effect. But I feel it has more to do with the '87 show. And from there on the Turtles have always been a sort of kids' thing in the general public's eye.

But let's say we drop the "Teenage" off the title. What do we call'em then? Because Mutant Ninja Turtles would be accurate, but it doesn't have a good ring to it. Ninja Turtles would be better, I'm sure we've heard plenty of people simply refer to them as such if we haven't ourselves. But that still feels like it's missing something. Which that may just be from hearing and thinking of the TMNT title for so long now.

I'd like to see them age as much as any fan. I just hope Splinter wouldn't turn into Aunt May. Not saying I want to see him die, but he's usually depicted as an elderly and wise figure. So eventually he would need to go.

I'm personally hoping the IDW book continues on for a good solid 10 years. But that means sales have to stay up, quality has to stay good, and IDW will continue to hold the license.

[Andrew NDB]

No. This is an absurd thread. Most superheroes are teenagers.

I don't think that's remotely true. I could sit here and list out about 200 superheroes that aren't and didn't begin as teenaged superheroes... and could probably only come up with half that in teenagers.

[pennydreadful]

I wouldn't mind seeing them older... and I hope one day that we do see it. :tcool: It'd be great to see an older Raph, and see whether he ever does manage to get a bit more of a handle on his temper - or at least see how he channels it.

[pingclang]

The thing is, yeah they are teenagers but they haven't lived like normal teenagers. Sure, the FW series lightens things up but in a lot of the Turtles lore, when things are more serious, they've been trained their whole lives in the martial arts and ultimately how to incapacitate an enemy which includes killing them. Growing up in that sort of environment, I see them as teenagers only in the sense of their age. So I guess in answer to your question, it really depends on the writer and where they want to go with it. Its sort of obvious that the new movie doesn't really stick to the teenage part at all, for instance.

[snake]

I hope the nick cartoon shows them growing up more. They might be adults by the time of the finale.

[HotNunchuckFury]

I like the fact they are young and this comes across a lot in their personalities. The kind of banter they have going on and the fact they all have lessons to learn is something which makes them so interesting, along with Splinter's words of wisdom and watching them develop. It's one thing that makes TMNT different from other shows I watch. That said I did enjoy seeing them portrayed as adults in SAINW despite the dire situation they were in. So basically, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it done, just a bit sceptical as to whether it would still have the same TMNT vibe to it.

[Lou 500]

I wouldn't mind if "Teenage" was left out. If The Dark Knight and Man of Steel can be alternate titles then why not just Ninja Turtles?

[mikey22]

hey we did see them grow up remember?


we saw mike fat leo a goof, rpah legs shot and donny w/ glasses lmao


that old silly toon w/ hookum hare

[chrisdude]

The turtles deserve to be explored as different ages, but really, all superheroes have an age at which they've settled. I don't think it's a matter of, "Well, we can't let them grow older because "teenage" is in the title." It's not even normal to watch heroes age. It pretty much only happens in comics, and even then it's minimized as much as possible.

We've seen young Superman, old Batman and different ages for all different heroes, but there's a default that everyone's comfortable with. Whenever you step outside, like the TV show Smallville, everyone recognizes it as an aberration, because we all know what age they're supposed to be.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

No. This is an absurd thread. Most superheroes are teenagers.

Spiderman is a teenager, the X-men start off as teenagers. The only exception is probably Batman who is always shown to be at least 25 when he wears the cape and cowl.


Not true. Most Marvel heroes, and most of the DC ones I'm familiar with, actually started as ADULTS. Thor, Iron Man, Ms. Marvel(my namesake), Wonder Man, She Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye (and these are just a few of the Avengers off a poster sitting on the wall above my computer! I didn't even have to look far for those names, and there are literally DOZENS more on that poster, most of them that BEGAN as adults.) DC: Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman, Superman (Smallville aside), Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Plastic Man (corny choice, I know....), et al.....


I don't think that's remotely true. I could sit here and list out about 200 superheroes that aren't and didn't begin as teenaged superheroes... and could probably only come up with half that in teenagers.


So could I. So.... Do you want to start on that list, or should I do it? I wonder how many of those names would be the same.

[pannoni1]

At this point, the "Teenage" is simply about name recognition and familiarity coupled with the use of the "artifact title" concept when applicable, understanding that while an incarnation can start as teenagers, a series can end as adults, like Mirage eventually did.

[The Turtle Terminator]

There was a Mirage or Archie series to happen known as Future Wars. Although it never happened, it was to show what happened to the bros if they were older

[Luckyday]

I seriously starting to think the toyline is what really holding them back because it just seems to be the sole key factor of what makes them so desirable to other big name companies and that creates this atmosphere "Ok so how can we capitalize this market to get more sales?" when instead it should be the writers, animators, and creatives thinking "What are things that made this show so good to me and the people around me?".

Bottom line: The toyline is what making this show be constantly treated as a food product like Coco cola, instead of being what it actually is which is a story franchise.

[snake]

I seriously starting to think the toyline is what really them back because it seems to be the key factor of what makes them so desirable to other big companies and that creates this atmosphere "Ok so how can we capitalize this market to get more sales?" when instead it should be the writers,animators, and creatives thinking "What are things that made this show so good to me and the people around me?".

Bottom line: The toyline is what making this show be constantly treated as a food product like Coco cola, instead of being what it actually is which is a story franchise.

This doesn't make sense, becuase the companies can make toyline only characters and they would still sell.

[Luckyday]

This doesn't make sense, becuase the companies can make toyline only characters and they would still sell.

That's what I mean. You don't need to put so much emphasis on the show's production value when the real money maker is the toy line. Other thing that other companies or big wig executives who don't watch or understand the appeal of the television series are under the impression that most of the popularity are mostly stem from toys and merchandise.

[IndigoErth]

Other thing that other companies or big wig executives who don't watch or understand the appeal of the television series are under the impression that most of the popularity are mostly stem from toys and merchandise.
Time for forced retirement. :)

[jenna]

Really I think the 'teenage' is branding only. The only incarnation where the turtles have felt like teenagers is Nick. Even as far back as Fred Wolf their characters felt more mature than 15. In the new film they feel much older to me.

[Hannurdock]

Really I think the 'teenage' is branding only. The only incarnation where the turtles have felt like teenagers is Nick. Even as far back as Fred Wolf their characters felt more mature than 15. In the new film they feel much older to me.

They've always felt like they were in their twenties, maybe even thirties. Especially in the 2003 cartoon. In the new film, they don't seem 'teenage' at all. They feel more like sheltered twenty year olds seeing the world for the first time.

[Warhorse]

Really I think the 'teenage' is branding only. The only incarnation where the turtles have felt like teenagers is Nick. Even as far back as Fred Wolf their characters felt more mature than 15. In the new film they feel much older to me.

But we never really seen them branching off and trying to find themselves. Closest thing so far to this, would have been the 2007 movie and maybe the whole Ancient One in 2k3.

[Peter Palmer]

They've always felt like they were in their twenties, maybe even thirties. Especially in the 2003 cartoon. In the new film, they don't seem 'teenage' at all. They feel more like sheltered twenty year olds seeing the world for the first time.

That's interesting. I felt that the 2003 cartoon versions of the turtles felt VERY "teenager-y". Just looking at how emotional they were, how heavily they relied on one another, and how they spent their free time, they seemed like teenagers to me. Generally speaking, adults (20+) tend to be more independent from their families and form bonds with people outside their family. Adults also tend to be less emotional than teenagers.

I really like the show because it seems to capture some of the strife that comes with how they were raised. They have a lot of martial arts knowledge and combat experience, but they don't have the life experience yet to really temper their emotions and are generally pretty naieve about the world. I think the show did a great job of showing them as teenagers, though maybe a bit older than the other cartoons. I'd guess the 2K3 TMNT were around 18 years old.

We saw grown up turtles in Laird's volume 4, which takes place 15 years after the events in TMNT #1. That places the turtles in their early 30's. Generally speaking, they are more emotionally controlled (especially Leo and Don) and they definitely branched out and formed new bonds outside the family. It felt like a very natural progression for the turtles...to me it made them seem even more like a family since they behaved in a way that real world families often do.

Of course, volume 4 was titled simply "TMNT", thus leaving out the explicit "Teenage" portion of the title. I'm guessing this was very intentional.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

It could be the "teenage" in the title. I for one would love to see the turtles as adults. Whenever we tend to watch TMNT, we often tend to forget that they are teenagers. It kind of makes me wish the 2014 film kept the "Ninja Turtles" title because they did not look or act like teenagers.

[TigerClaw]

It could be the "teenage" in the title. I for one would love to see the turtles as adults. Whenever we tend to watch TMNT, we often tend to forget that they are teenagers. It kind of makes me wish the 2014 film kept the "Ninja Turtles" title because they did not look or act like teenagers.
I would like to see the Turtles grow older throwout the season, Something we never got from the Fred Wolf and 4Kids series, The problem is, in the cartoon world, characters never age, They stay the same age, Look at the Simpsons, That show has been around for years and the kids are still kids.

[plastroncafe]

It's more the adult conception of what a teenager is that's holding the characters back, rather than their actual age. Sometimes I find myself wondering if some of the people on staff spend any actual time with teenagers...

[Candy Kappa]

What, they nailed how teenagers are with PD Mikey...

[Ravenshell]

They've always felt like they were in their twenties, maybe even thirties. Especially in the 2003 cartoon.

This is kind of how I feel about the 2003 series... there's nothing really teenager-y about them... they feel more like college students. Raph's voice especially does not read 'teenager' to me.

I would be fine just dropping the title to Ninja Turtles... most people already know where we came from.

I don't see the guys as ageless characters and don't want to... I want to see them progress as characters, growing up in mind and body. I like where the Nick series is going with this, actually giving them some character dynamic rather than making the show "a bunch of weird things happen around 4 "teenage" turtles and then everything goes back to status quo."

[IndigoErth]

I would like to see the Turtles grow older throwout the season, Something we never got from the Fred Wolf and 4Kids series, The problem is, in the cartoon world, characters never age, They stay the same age, Look at the Simpsons, That show has been around for years and the kids are still kids.
It would be rather unique to actually have characters age, might be a huge plus if someone could actually pull that off with a popular show. However, as much as I'd love to see 2012 physically age, I'm sure that probably would not be reasonable to do in terms of time and money in that medium.

Would still love to see a second series pick up a little while after 2012 closes that is basically the same show but a continuation with older characters. Maybe a bit more intense and mature, aimed at a slightly older demographic (and the rest of us).

Maybe someone will one day do it with traditional 2D. A few newspaper comic strips have slowly aged their characters over many years, so I don't think it's entirely outside possibility that someone with similar patience could try that with a tv series and make occasional small revisions to characters over a long period of time.

[Garfield]

I'm for just dropping the "Teenage" and "Mutant" part of the name. just keeping it as Ninja Turtles. That says enough for me. So if you want to tell stories with them being much older you can, and you can still tell stories with them as teens if you want. They wont be barricaded into a specific portrayal of the characters because of the name.

[Warhorse]

It's more the adult conception of what a teenager is that's holding the characters back, rather than their actual age. Sometimes I find myself wondering if some of the people on staff spend any actual time with teenagers...

True! In The Hunger Games, most of the main characters are teenagers, and they sure as hell didn't act like bumbling oafs. So, I guess it's definitely up to the creator's mind set.

Harry Potter is another one that does a good job in writing teens. Lot of Steven Spielberg movies too have well written teens.

[Hannurdock]

Yeah, but even teenagers grow up. They should grow up. Same as it Never Was had a fourty-five year old Mikey and it was highly regarded. There has always been a time-issue with TMNT. They don't age, really. They stay as eternal fifteen year-olds, and have done so since the '80's.

I liked TMNT back when they were four years older than me. Now they're 26 years younger! How'd that happen? When the Nick crowd become adults, it'll be the same thing all over again.

Someone will take the initiative and make an older Ninja Turtle movie eventually. The problem is, who out there has the cash, connections ... and the vision to make it happen? We need film directors on this board, people inside the industry that want to make it happen. Until that day, everything we advise is never going to be taken seriously.