William Fichtner isn’t Shredder (Confirmed)

[terrorblade]

http://www.superherohype.com/features/308857-director-jonathan-liebesman-on-the-origins-of-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-heroes-and-villains#/slide/1

[The Stryker]

The real good news of that interview is saying they want the movie to be just under 100 minutes.

The biggest fault (for me atleast) with the big giant bay-esque films is that they're wayyyy too long.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

So is the guys name Sachs or Sacks? On the show it is spelled Sacs in the interview it's Sachs. I'm confused

[Shark_Blade]

I really don't mind 2 to 3 hours of turtles movie, kinda like LOTR.

But still good news. :tlove:

[Eiko]

I just cant wait for this. love how Don loves watching cat videos my fav turtle. :)

[Xav]

I love how he says the original origin was too complex. Funny I don't recall anyone having a problem following it in the first movie.

[Leo656]

I love how he says the original origin was too complex. Funny I don't recall anyone having a problem following it in the first movie.

Agreed. If anything, I bet the new one is at least as "complicated" if not more so. Just a throwaway line to justify the tinkering.

[trikuza]

I like that they're pretty much saying they have already drawn up some concept art for some of the popular characters from the old toon but need to save them for the sequels. Also the inclusion of the old theme song, yes!!!

[Sighphi]

Agreed. If anything, I bet the new one is at least as "complicated" if not more so. Just a throwaway line to justify the tinkering.

From all the info we have it seems that they got rid of the Hamato Yoshi part because, like this interview says, they didnt want to ... open doors or some such.

[Leo656]

"Y'know... aren't Bruce Wayne's parents kinda dead for like, everything? Let's skip over that and just leave them out, it's not relevant." :roll:

[Xav]

It would be really odd if they left out Yoshi completely. He's been a part of every version of the TMNT origin story.

[trikuza]

He talks about the complications from Splinter stealing Oroku Saki's girlfriend, does that mean that they are going to avoid that whole situation?

[Candy Kappa]

... Splinter stealing Shredder's girlfriend...that's one way of looking at it.

[Leo656]

See, it's a good thing women are things and can legally be traded as property or even stolen outright. If they were people, then the whole Yoshi/Saki rivalry story would be even more needlessly complicated than it already is.

[Candy Kappa]

"Shen is my waifu!"

[pennydreadful]

See, it's a good thing women are things and can legally be traded as property or even stolen outright. If they were people, then the whole Yoshi/Saki rivalry story would be even more needlessly complicated than it already is.

Totally. What I want to know is - how many camels was she worth?

[Leo656]

:lol:
"Sallah! I said NO camels! That's FIVE camels!"
:lol:

[pennydreadful]

Can't you count?! :lol:

[Leo656]

:lol: I enjoy things I remember.

[Le Glorieux Tortue]

See, it's a good thing women are things and can legally be traded as property or even stolen outright. If they were people, then the whole Yoshi/Saki rivalry story would be even more needlessly complicated than it already is.

I get what you are saying but though I am not sure exactly how it was in feudal Japan, historically speaking in some places women were considered things and property :P

[Coola Yagami]

The stupid thing is Fitchner/Eric Sachs has no place in this movie anymore. If shredder needed some kind of Everyman to be a spokesman he could have done it himself as typical Japanese businessman oroku saki. Or have Karai do it. If they needed someone to take shredder's armor to the next level, have Baxter stockman do it.

Fitchner is just a waste of time. Another human character that will get a lot of focus instead of the turtles themselves.

Also of shredder is splinter's mortal enemy, wouldn't he already know it's saki and not Sachs? Not much surprise there.

[pihb]

The stupid thing is Fitchner/Eric Sachs has no place in this movie anymore. If shredder needed some kind of Everyman to be a spokesman he could have done it himself as typical Japanese businessman oroku saki. Or have Karai do it. If they needed someone to take shredder's armor to the next level, have Baxter stockman do it.

Fitchner is just a waste of time. Another human character that will get a lot of focus instead of the turtles themselves.

Also of shredder is splinter's mortal enemy, wouldn't he already know it's saki and not Sachs? Not much surprise there.

You say that he doesn't have a place, but it sounds like his company created the ooze, and will most likely be the financial back ground and tech for the actual Shredder. Sach's is sounding more and more like the Kraang.

[graphic_content]

You say that he doesn't have a place, but it sounds like his company created the ooze, and will most likely be the financial back ground and tech for the actual Shredder. Sach's is sounding more and more like the Kraang.

Or Stockman.

[pihb]

Or Stockman.

Ya except Stockman is casted by K. Todd Freeman
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0030887/

[Powder]

That's never been confirmed nor even implied outside of IMDB. Not wise to state it as fact.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Ya except Stockman is played by K. Todd Freeman
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0030887/

I wouldn't trust anything coming from IMDB....they are a joke.
And it's just cast or casting. There is no such thing as casted. And it would be played by, not cast by

Nothing has been announced to say he is not playing Baxter Stockman

And nothing has been announced to even hint that he is...

[Candy Kappa]

And, thats how the "Mos Def was going to be Baxter Stockman" rumor flourished.

[pihb]

And nothing has been announced to even hint that he is...

The point is that if Baxter Stockman was going to be in the movie, there would be no point in having him under the name Eric Sachs.

[Candy Kappa]

No one besides the imdb page have said that Baxter even is in the movie, Sachs might as well the the evil scientist character if he isn't Shredder.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

The point is that if Baxter Stockman was going to be in the movie, there would be no point in having him under the name Eric Sachs.

Other than IMDB have you seen anything that even slightly hints at Stockman being in the movie? And what if Sachs isn't even his real name and they are still trying to trick us into thinking Fichtner is Shredder but when the movie comes on the call Fichtner by the name of Stockman....all smoke and shadows

[pihb]

Other than IMDB have you seen anything that even slightly hints at Stockman being in the movie? And what if Sachs isn't even his real name and they are still trying to trick us into thinking Fichtner is Shredder but when the movie comes on the call Fichtner by the name of Stockman....all smoke and shadows

and Sachs has the potential still to be a new Shredder, Krang, Stockman, or just some random guy who was behind the ooze. We won't know until the movie is released so everything you are saying is just speculation

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

and Sachs has the potential still to be a new Shredder, Krang, Stockman, or just some random guy who was behind the ooze. We won't know until the movie is released so everything you are saying is just speculation

Pretty much...

[SwiftNinjaFox]

“William Fichtner isn’t Shredder,” Liebesman teases. “[Fichtner] is Eric Sachs. Shredder is played by another actor. He’s not all CG. You see him without his armor on. When he’s in the armor, there’s an actor, but he’s been augmented. Like in ‘Iron Man,’ it’s CGI.”

I dunno, that doesn't sound like he isn't playing Shredder so much as he isn't the actor in the armor to me. Still sounds like veiled double talk that still keeps things a little ambiguous.

I don't feel like this is enough to confirm Oroku Saki is Shredder yet.

Still don't see how the origin is too complicated and confusing though. The old cartoon removed the love triangle and worked while keeping Yoshi/Saki in tact, just with Yoshi himself mutating. And they explained the whole origin in, what, 2 minutes?

The Barron TMNT movie told their origin twice, once to April and once to Danny within a reasonable time frame.

I like them using the original theme song in some way. I was grinning ear to ear when the Nick show had Mikey humming it. Just enough of a nod there without being too blatant.

[pihb]

I dunno, that doesn't sound like he isn't playing Shredder so much as he isn't the actor in the armor to me. Still sounds like veiled double talk that still keeps things a little ambiguous.


I also think that is strange. All the earlier promotions said Fichtner was Shredder. Fichtner said he was Shredder in interviews, etc. I wonder if Platinum dunes listened to the fans, did some rewriting and reshooting in order to get away from Sachs being Shredder.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

I also think that is strange. All the earlier promotions said Fichtner was Shredder. Fichtner said he was Shredder in interviews, etc. I wonder if Platinum dunes listened to the fans, did some rewriting and reshooting in order to get away from Sachs being Shredder.

You ever heard of this little thing I like to call "lying"?

[pihb]

You ever heard of this little thing I like to call "lying"?

it's either lying and a big secret for a reveal or things changed since the original announcement and this is CYA. hard to interpret since they are contradicting previous statements

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

hard to interpret since they are contradicting previous statements

because they are trying to cover their own butts

[Leolead]

Did you guys hear Shredder's voice!?!

[MajorViolence]

I also think that is strange. All the earlier promotions said Fichtner was Shredder. Fichtner said he was Shredder in interviews, etc. I wonder if Platinum dunes listened to the fans, did some rewriting and reshooting in order to get away from Sachs being Shredder.

Yeah, I got a look at the visual history book the other day and it pretty clearly confirmed Sachs was Shredder. Now they're plainly stating he's not. Either they're intentionally lying to surprise us when he does turn out to be Shredder, or they decided to change Shredder to someone else VERY late in production.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

it's either lying and a big secret for a reveal or things changed since the original announcement and this is CYA. hard to interpret since they are contradicting previous statements

yup...I think this is what they want though. Confusion, nobody knows for sure until you go see the movie

Did you guys hear Shredder's voice!?!

Glad you could join us!

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Yeah, I got a look at the visual history book the other day and it pretty clearly confirmed Sachs was Shredder. Now they're plainly stating he's not. Either they're intentionally lying to surprise us when he does turn out to be Shredder, or they decided to change Shredder to someone else VERY late in production.

Or there are two of them

[pihb]

Or there are two of them

like a krang and saki?

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

like a krang and saki?

possibly...or just some crazy white guy trying to be a badass

[Leolead]

So i hope Shredder is Oroku saki! "glad you could join us!":tgrin::D

[pihb]

possibly...or just some crazy white guy trying to be a badass

a good villain needs a motive

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

a good villain needs a motive

well who knows what drives them in this movie...

[pihb]

well who knows what drives them in this movie...

reaction to Young Justice being cancelled....

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

reaction to Young Justice being cancelled....

I could see that pisses Shredder off

[NinjaPug]

You ever heard of this little thing I like to call "lying"?

Why would they lie about this? You saw the fan backlash over white Shredder, right? No way anyone involved with the film would be onboard with lying about something that would cause such negative feedback.

The way I see it one of two things is going on:

1) They completely changed the script after the backlash (like they did with the alien origin) and simply made Sachs a political/financial backer of the Foot. His character isn't really needed in this situation but I guess it works.

2) they're lying now and the big surprise is that Sachs takes over as The Shredder during the movie. No one (except everyone) would see that twist coming.

My guess is #2.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

part of me hopes its 2 as well so i can yell "fooled you" ala spaceballs

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, I got a look at the visual history book the other day and it pretty clearly confirmed Sachs was Shredder. Now they're plainly stating he's not. Either they're intentionally lying to surprise us when he does turn out to be Shredder, or they decided to change Shredder to someone else VERY late in production.

And that's what I'm saying. No place for him here. If he were to build the robo shredder armor or run the company that makes mutagen we have Baxter as the mad scientist character. If shredder needs some sort of public spokesman it could have been Baxter, Karai or Saki himself. Fitchner isn't needed.

I know shredder had lackeys before. But tatsu was never given a large faux main villian role nor were we ever to believe that he was shredder.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Why would they lie about this? You saw the fan backlash over white Shredder, right? No way anyone involved with the film would be onboard with lying about something that would cause such negative feedback.

The way I see it one of two things is going on:

1) They completely changed the script after the backlash (like they did with the alien origin) and simply made Sachs a political/financial backer of the Foot. His character isn't really needed in this situation but I guess it works.

2) they're lying now and the big surprise is that Sachs takes over as The Shredder during the movie. No one (except everyone) would see that twist coming.

My guess is #2.

I don't know...people lie all the time to cover up **** regardless of the outcome...it's just a movie anyway. It's not like they are lying before Congress

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I don't know...people lie all the time to cover up **** regardless of the outcome...it's just a movie anyway. It's not like they are lying before Congress

Bay lies yes...but not in the way to "fix" or hide things...he lies to cover his ass....or just to get people off his back

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Bay lies yes...but not in the way to "fix" or hide things...he lies to cover his ass....or just to get people off his back

well we will see in a few weeks won't we?

[MastahShredder]

He gave up the role after seeing this.

http://i.imgur.com/u1YkSJG.png

[Xav]

... Splinter stealing Shredder's girlfriend...that's one way of looking at it.Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about Splinter didn't steal Shredder's girlfriend in the original Eastman and Laird origin. I'm guessing he's getting his origin stories mixed up. But he's right we can't expect the audience of this film to be able to follow the complex story that was used in a children's cartoon.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

He gave up the role after seeing this.

http://i.imgur.com/u1YkSJG.png

He saw that and said "fu*k this sh*t!"

[MastahShredder]

He saw that and said "fu*k this sh*t!"

:lol:

The mask is actually not too bad looking.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

:lol:

The mask is actually not too bad looking.

That's just what I was thinking...not bad at all

[NinjaPug]

I don't know...people lie all the time to cover up **** regardless of the outcome...it's just a movie anyway. It's not like they are lying before Congress

What? They're not going to lie about something that would create a negative perception about their movie which could hurt the box office. If anything, they'd do the opposite (which is probably what they're doing right now regarding all this talk about Fichtner not being the Shredder in this movie).

[Leo656]

Frankly, I'm all for secrecy and misdirection and whatnot, but flat-out lying about anything is always wrong. That's one of my biggest beliefs in life, that lies are an insult to the intelligence of the listener - "I'm saying something untrue, and this person is stupid enough to believe it!" - and there's never a valid reason for it. If you can't believe the words a person is speaking, then they in turn have absolutely zero value as a human being, because our ability to properly communicate with and trust each other is one of the few things that elevates humans above beasts.

Others may feel differently. I feel lying is abhorrent under any circumstances whatsoever, and that there's a huge difference between keeping something under wraps and flat-out saying the opposite of the truth. I can respect the former but never the latter.

Again, we don't know enough to know yet which one they actually did with this movie. We'll find out soon enough. But if they did lie outright, just in the name of enticing a few of the fence-sitters into the theater, well, that's shady.

[NinjaPug]

And if they're now telling us another actor is playing Shredder why wasn't his name revealed? We're 3 weeks from release and don't know who is playing the supposed main villain. That's fishy to me.

[Werecat]

See, it's a good thing women are things and can legally be traded as property or even stolen outright. If they were people, then the whole Yoshi/Saki rivalry story would be even more needlessly complicated than it already is.

Woah I know this is sarcasm but this is edging close to hate speech. Keep it down. Honestly, that is worthy of a ban in some forums. I should know 'cause I made a few jokes...I don't blame them.

[Matt2310]

Why is it fishy that you don't know 100% everything about this movie lol
Are you that important that you should be told first?

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Why is it fishy that you don't know 100% everything about this movie lol
Are you that important that you should be told first?

apparently so

[Leo656]

Woah I know this is sarcasm but this is edging close to hate speech. Keep it down. Honestly, that is worthy of a ban in some forums. I should know 'cause I made a few jokes...I don't blame them.

:lol: Oh, my, no. No, no. :lol: Every single person who's been here more than a couple weeks knows exactly how to "read" my posts. You'll get used to me in time. I'll be one of your favorites, I promise. Your offense to that post was simply growing pains. It'll pass.

Honestly, I was expecting an indignant response to that one much, much sooner. :lol: Page 4? I gotta try harder next time.

[NinjaPug]

Why is it fishy that you don't know 100% everything about this movie lol
Are you that important that you should be told first?

Give me a break. Tell me one movie in the past 10 years (or ever) where we didn't know who was playing the main villain in a movie before it was released.

[Shark_Blade]

He gave up the role after seeing this.

http://i.imgur.com/u1YkSJG.png

Aww, so adorable. :tlove:

Give me a break. Tell me one movie in the past 10 years (or ever) where we didn't know who was playing the main villain in a movie before it was released.

Many in fact. Hans from Frozen. Talia al Ghul from The Dark Knight Rises. Ras al Ghul from Batman Begins. Quirrel from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

[Slade]

Talia and Ras I can't agree with. Never watched Frozen and only seen bits and peices of every Harry Potter.

I was gunna say Iron Man 3, but I didn't really look into the movie before it came out.

[Leo656]

I didn't see each of those, but the Batman ones are debatable. Talia may have been the "main" villain in the storyline, as far as being the mastermind, but only because they wanted a tacked-on twist near the ending. For all intents and purposes - marketing, merchandising, word of mouth etc. - Bane was the "main villain". Even when discussing the movie now, people don't discuss Talia's role as "the main villain", she's the "tacked on plot twist". Big difference.

And absolutely, positively, ZERO people actually believed Neeson was NOT Ra's Al Ghul. Literally every single person on Earth knew the second they saw his mustache. That's a huge reach, to say that was a "secret". Misdirection, maybe, but it was clear to anyone with a brain. "No, no, Neeson is Ducard -wink wink - not Ra's. Definitely." I don't think even WB expected anyone to buy that. :lol: Once they said Ra's was a main villain and Neeson was in the movie, everyone put 2 and 2 together immediately.

[Shark_Blade]

Yeah Talia was so lame, when she was revealed as the mastermind, I was like "oh" and when she died I'm like "meh". Shows how much depth the character has, it truly is a cheap twist at the end. :lol:

And as for Ras al Ghul, I didn't know the character much at the time so I really didn't know what to expect. Now I know his history and read some of the comics, I get to know him better.

[Raven]

And absolutely, positively, ONE person actually believed Neeson was NOT Ra's Al Ghul. Literally every single person on Earth knew the second they saw his mustache. That's a huge reach, to say that was a "secret". Misdirection, maybe, but it was clear to anyone with a brain. "No, no, Neeson is Ducard -wink wink - not Ra's. Definitely." I don't think even WB expected anyone to buy that. :lol: Once they said Ra's was a main villain and Neeson was in the movie, everyone put 2 and 2 together immediately.


I'm not saying I was gullible enough...but...okay until they revealed him at the end I felt like a complete moron after realizing he looked exactly-You know I'll save myself the embarrassment.

[Leo656]

:lol: My sister gasped. But her only Batman experience was when she took me to see the one in '89.

So, I'll clarify and say that at least anyone who actually knew what a "Ra's Al Ghul" was probably should have seen it coming. :lol: Not picking on anyone. But that was a pretty weak attempt at misdirection. Watching previews for it, whenever they'd call him "Ducard", I could physically feel the elbow nudging me in the ribs through the TV. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

I'm not saying I was gullible enough...but...okay until they revealed him at the end I felt like a complete moron after realizing he looked exactly-You know I'll save myself the embarrassment.

So you never saw batman that animated series????

[NinjaPug]

Many in fact. Hans from Frozen. Talia al Ghul from The Dark Knight Rises. Ras al Ghul from Batman Begins. Quirrel from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

That's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm not referring to characters that end up being a villain via some twist.

I'm talking about the fact that we don't know who is playing the Shredder in this. The producers and director have told us it's someone other than Fichtner so it's obviously not a secret.

We knew the actors who ended up playing Talia, Ras and Quirrel months before release. Ras is a great example of this. We were told Ras was played by Watanbe and Ducard was played by Neeson. For TMNT we've been told Fichtner is playing Sachs and that "someone else" is Shredder. It's odd that we don't know who this is 3 weeks before release.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly. I bet his name won't even get top billings and usually the movie villian is the second or third name on the movie poster.

[Xav]

So, I'll clarify and say that at least anyone who actually knew what a "Ra's Al Ghul" was probably should have seen it coming. :lol: Not picking on anyone. But that was a pretty weak attempt at misdirection. Watching previews for it, whenever they'd call him "Ducard", I could physically feel the elbow nudging me in the ribs through the TV. :lol:Ok I knew who Ra's Al Ghul was going into the film and did not see it coming. So I guess I must have no brain.

[Raven]

So you never saw batman that animated series????

Oh no, The animated series was my favorite growing up. I just for some reason never put two and two together when I first saw Begins. I mean all the signs of Ra's where on Neason, and I completely looked them over. I was so focused on Bruce's journey and transformation that it flew right over my head.

[Leo656]

Alright, alright, maybe I was a little harsh. Sorry. But c'mon... the mustache? That didn't at least give you a little hint? :lol: I got all my info on that movie in Wizard, I didn't know who anyone was playing, I saw the pictures and was like, "Oh, snap! Neeson's playing Ra's!" Then I read the caption where they said he was Ducard, and was like, "Wait... wha'?" I immediately knew there was a swerve coming. Evil Mustache.

That, and while Ducard was a comics character, he was super-minor, and I didn't think they'd spend money on Neeson just to make him an obscure supporting cast member. I just did the math and figured if the most well-known actor in the movie wasn't playing the main lead, he had to at least be playing the main villain. I'unno. I do tend to play detective a lot, in case nobody noticed.

Again, wasn't trying to offend. But I seriously only ever heard people say it was too obvious if anything. Sorry to presume.

[Xav]

Yeah but I don't get the mustache thing. Ra's didn't have a mustache in the cartoon, he had those weird side hairs.

[Leo656]

Yeah, it was a little different, but that wasn't just any mustache Neeson had, it was a distinctively Evil one. :lol:

[Raven]

Alright, alright, maybe I was a little harsh. Sorry. But c'mon... the mustache? That didn't at least give you a little hint? :lol: I got all my info on that movie in Wizard, I didn't know who anyone was playing, I saw the pictures and was like, "Oh, snap! Neeson's playing Ra's!" Then I read the caption where they said he was Ducard, and was like, "Wait... wha'?" I immediately knew there was a swerve coming. Evil Mustache.

That, and while Ducard was a comics character, he was super-minor, and I didn't think they'd spend money on Neeson just to make him an obscure supporting cast member. I just did the math and figured if the most well-known actor in the movie wasn't playing the main lead, he had to at least be playing the main villain. I'unno. I do tend to play detective a lot, in case nobody noticed.

Again, wasn't trying to offend. But I seriously only ever heard people say it was too obvious if anything. Sorry to presume.

No offense taken on my part, I'll be the first to admit it was a rookie mistake. All the signs were leaping off the screen.

[Xav]

May I ask just what were the signs?

[Leo656]

For all his talk about "Ra's" (Watanabe) and how big and important he was, Neeson "Ducard" sure seemed like he had a lot of pull with the League of Shadows. The way "Ra's" was portrayed as so passive when we first see him didn't seem very in-character.

Meanwhile, Neeson/"Ducard" was making epic speeches about The League's plans and acting pretty super-villainous in general. "Ra's" only existed on-screen as "Mysterious Asian" until he picked up a sword and started dueling with Bruce, then got a roof dropped on him. The way Neeson's character behaved was completely in-character with Ra's. Then, if absolutely nothing else, the final clue is when we see Bruce drop him off after saving his life, and then the character is never seen or mentioned again. Literally a half hour into the movie at the absolute latest, you know something is up. You know "Ducard" is still alive, and that even though the movie has shifted gears into the Scarecrow storyline, you know something still has to happen because you saw a major villain like "Ra's" get killed off super early despite being too important to the mythology to have that happen. "Ra's" is dead, even though he can't be, you know you have to see Ducard again at some point because we didn't see him die... thus, evidence strongly suggests, at that point, that Ducard will reappear before the end of the film, as the real Ra's. Which is obviously exactly what happened.

Even though I thought it was obvious, I loved how it was something a person who paid close attention could have figured out before it was revealed. The best twists are ones that are "fair", maybe not telegraphed, but something that you can go, "Wow, I should have known!" Conversely, Talia was pretty tacked on. It made perfect sense when they explained it, but before that, you only could have guessed she was Talia based on, "Yeah, I had a feeling they'd put Talia in it somehow," not based on any on-screen evidence.

[Slade]

You know, I had no idea who Neeson was supposed to be instead of Ra's. I just looked at him and figured he was Ra's. Haha. Think I might have been spoiled on Talia.

[pennydreadful]

Frankly, I'm all for secrecy and misdirection and whatnot, but flat-out lying about anything is always wrong. That's one of my biggest beliefs in life, that lies are an insult to the intelligence of the listener - "I'm saying something untrue, and this person is stupid enough to believe it!" - and there's never a valid reason for it. If you can't believe the words a person is speaking, then they in turn have absolutely zero value as a human being, because our ability to properly communicate with and trust each other is one of the few things that elevates humans above beasts.

Others may feel differently. I feel lying is abhorrent under any circumstances whatsoever, and that there's a huge difference between keeping something under wraps and flat-out saying the opposite of the truth. I can respect the former but never the latter.

Again, we don't know enough to know yet which one they actually did with this movie. We'll find out soon enough. But if they did lie outright, just in the name of enticing a few of the fence-sitters into the theater, well, that's shady.

FWIW, I think animals communicate much better than people. They don't get bogged down in all the BS that humans do - you can tell if they're happy, hungry, horny, pissed off, scared... Animals live purer, more honest lives than humans ever could.

Re the Bay being a lying liar who lies through his lying hole... I can't even get into the morality of being untruthful - it's simply that it's a stupid thing to lie about, and it's annoying to me because of that. It's not clever, it's not being tricky, it's just stupid and flat-out irritating. I mean, at the end of the day, they're here to sell us a product. Lying to me about your product doesn't really incline me to hand over my money to you. If I buy laundry detergent, I expect it to get my whites white, or I'll throw it back in your face (or possibly just write an angry letter).

Woah I know this is sarcasm but this is edging close to hate speech. Keep it down. Honestly, that is worthy of a ban in some forums. I should know 'cause I made a few jokes...I don't blame them.

These forums are pretty permissive and laid-back - you'll get used to it. :)

[unlundun]

...but it did get people talking about the film, even bad publicity is good publicity. Its an interesting choice and could have easily backfired, but it made people care about the film..or at least show some interest in tmnt.

[samxsteal]

...but it did get people talking about the film, even bad publicity is good publicity. Its an interesting choice and could have easily backfired, but it made people care about the film..or at least show some interest in tmnt.

Exactly lol

[Xav]

Yeah, it was a little different, but that wasn't just any mustache Neeson had, it was a distinctively Evil one. :lol:Why actually more of an evil goatee.

[slingtheory]

I'm curious what he means about the original origin making things too complex. Didn't slinter explain the whole thing in a 5 minute flashback in the original movie? Judging from what we've seen I don't see how their new origin could be any less complicated. Good to finally know what the thing on donatellos back is though. Guess shell cells don't have wi fi

[Sumac]

I didn't know that Neeson was Ra's until the end of the BB. I seriously bought that it was some big asian guy. On the other hand, I didn't know that BB was reboot of the Batman movie franchise and thought it was prequel to the Batman'89...at least such rumors existed back then.

In the end, I didn't really cared about reveal as I didn't like this movie.

[Leolead]

I think this movie will open with Splinter (pre mutated) and it will go through the origin in the begining (i hope)

[Leo656]

Why actually more of an evil goatee.

True, true. Definitely some sinister facial hair, either way. Anyone walking around with a Mirror Universe goatee in a film is always a villain. It's one of The Rules.