Does A Ninja Turtles Film Need The Shredder?

[MikeandRaph87]

The first film is a cult classic and the second film is much beloved. The first and second film both feature The Shredder as the villain. The third made up two villians instead of using an exsisting one, a British arms dealer and a daimayo. While the fourth had an immortal named Max Winters. No Rat King or Krang or any other villian in Shredder's place. Are the third and fourth movie villains being made for movie what hurts the films? Can a film be great and not have Shredder but another prexsisting villians? One thing that is fun and important is learning who the two villians in a Batman or Spider-Man film are and I feel confident..or rather more confident(if Fox/Bay are involved) if Shredder is the villain.

[Galactus]

It doesn't really need Shredder to be a good movie.

A big problem with TMNT is that it's most notable version, the Fred Wolf show followed the 80s Saturday Morning cartoon trope of having the same villain in almost every episode. Other villains that the series used were either working for him or connected to him in some way so people seem to think it's odd to have a movie were he isn't present

That's why it's a great thing the character is present for this and Shredder is vital if you're doing a faithful origin story (of course the jury is still out on whether the Platinum Dunes is faithful in any way) but if this movie is successful and earns some loyalty I'd love to see them branch out with their antagonists. However I don't see that likely, they'll wring the Shredder's popularity for all it's worth.

[TigerClaw]

Shredder isn't the only villain the Turtles battle, You also have the Rat King.

Rat King would be good for a sequel, Maybe for the 3rd movie.

[Powder]

Baxter/Mousers, Rat King, Triceratons, there's plenty of other villains who could carry a great film.

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

Absolutely not. With today's technology, I'd love to see Mousers and Triceratons.

[Cure]

I actually kind of wish they'd lead up to the Shredder. Have a trilogy and make it like, Baxter then some Foot/Rat King and then Shredder. Might be a bit cliche at this point, but whatevs.

[Leo656]

I definitely don't think it needs it but I think most people expect it, which is almost the same thing. Like it or not, but every time they do a Batman movie, other than who's playing the lead, the first question most people ask is, "Is the Joker in it?" Every time they do a Superman movie, same thing with Luthor. Obviously, as we've seen from those movies, you don't need those characters, but they're so connected with the main heroes that when they're not there, you have to work a little bit harder to sell the new bad guys to the audience, because subliminally, you know they're kind of a "secondary threat". You have to really make people believe that Scarecrow could possibly be as big a problem as Joker (which worked), or that Superman could take down General Zod and his minions, but a giant super-computer had the goods to bring him to his knees (oh, man, that didn't work).

I don't think the villains in TMNT III or 2K7 really had that kind of effect. I think they both should have used an existing villain that people actually wanted to see. Others have already mentioned some good ones, like Rat King, who I think could work really well in a movie with a really dark, twisted sort of representation. The Baxter and Mousers thing deserves a shot, also, it's literally the very first thing they went through after beating Shredder in almost every other version, and they never bothered with it on film, probably because of the cost. Well, CGI and even prop effects have never been better, so why not now? I'd even buy Baxter mutating into a giant fly in the third act, for a brief few minutes, long enough to look disgusting and creepy before losing to the Turtles in the final fight and getting banished to Dimension X (or killed, whichever kind of movie it is).

I'm sure we'll get some of that eventually, but I can't blame them for going back to Shredder. The last two movies didn't have him, and the last two movies made sh*t money compared to the first two, so you gotta understand their position.

[Le Glorieux Tortue]

Baxter/Mousers, Rat King, Triceratons, there's plenty of other villains who could carry a great film.

Wow I really want to see Triceratons now ! If there are sequels to the new movie I really hope they come eventually . I know the current version isn't everyone's cup of tea but it's what we have now so why not make the best of it :-)

[Slade]

I wouldn't mind a film with Ratking in it either.

[Powder]

Wow I really want to see Triceratons now ! If there are sequels to the new movie I really hope they come eventually . I know the current version isn't everyone's cup of tea but it's what we have now so why not make the best of it :-)

Yeah, sequels are the one thing I am potentially excited for with this new series, because modern technology could allow them to tap into some of that crazy kinda stuff. Dimension X, A triceraton/Fugitoid story, time travel done right, etc. It may not be exactly how I want it, but to see any of them rendered in the same quality CGI would be preeeetty neat.

[Le Glorieux Tortue]

Yeah, sequels are the one thing I am potentially excited for with this new series, because modern technology could allow them to tap into some of that crazy kinda stuff. Dimension X, A triceraton/Fugitoid story, time travel done right, etc. It may not be exactly how I want it, but to see any of them rendered in the same quality CGI would be preeeetty neat.

Exactly, we never got that before . We just got some new costumes and different sets/locations . The kind of movie the new one is allows for super crazy to happen which can work if done right and that is exciting to me . I myself prefer stories in the streets and sewers but in terms of a movie going big could be ry good . I'm with you on Fugitoid/Triceratons, but let us stray from IDW's take and skip Neutrino's :lol:

[graphic_content]

If they continue to plan on drawing their inspiration from the original iterations, I would love to see a sequel where they introduce Krang, and his portal to Dimension X, in which April gets...wait for it...

...lost in time, and the Turtles have travel to several different time periods to rescue her. BUT NOT like TMNT III, more like the arcade game Turtles in Time.

Imagine our boys getting sent back to prehistoric times and fighting dionsaurs on the big screen. It would be ridiculous, for sure, but crazy fun.

[Metropoliskid41]

Does it need the Shredder? No probably not. I think the problem is that the majority of people who were exposed to the TMNT are most familiar with the Fred Wolf Cartoon. I'm not saying they those people weren't later exposed to other versions, that utilized a more diverse cast of Villains, but I think thanks to that series, the Shredder will always be synonymous with the Turtles as "THEE" Villain. And you can't really blame people for that mentality, as the majority of the merchandise still released utilize that same OT design and stock art that feature that version of the Turtles as well as Shredder, Bebop, and Rocksteady. So between the OT and the first 2 movies, arguably the 3 biggest exposure of TMNT to the majority of PAYING fans for the new movie, you have Shredder there as an essential component of the TMNT. Even the current Nick Toon series features Shredder as main villain, as does the IDW series. So that trend continues.

The 2k3 series utilized more villains, the Shredder was still a large part of that, but other guys got their time to shine. Maybe in 5-10 years we'll have a generation of paying movie goers (I think the Target Movie Going Audience is probably people 18-36?) who identify with that take on the Turtles more than any other version, and that trend will change.

The same trope goes for Lex Luther and Superman. 6 Live Action Superman movies, 4 have Luthor as a major part of the plot. Now 5 Turtle movies, 3 featuring the Shredder.

[Shark_Blade]

I would say yes, but don't overuse him.

Kinda like Joker in Batman, he's the pinnacle of evil for our protagonist and should be used sparringly.

[Donnieangelo]

They don't really need him ALL the time!

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

i think in todays world where movies are planned out in trilogy's shredder isn't really needed in 1 or 2 movies but a story lead up would be nice

[Cryomancer]

Would gladly watch a Triceratons/Fugitoid movie or one with Bishop even.

Mirage worked just fine without Shredder almost all the time, no reason a movie couldn't. 2k3's biggest weakness was it's inability to move past having a Shredder around, in my opinion. Would be great to see things go down Mirage style, and have Shredder straight up killed for sure at the end of the first movie in a series.

[MrTMNT2012]

Yes it does. Don't believe me? Watch the 2007 Movie...

[trikuza]

I think a more serious bebop and rocksteady, with rat king as a minor character, could carry film II.

Then have a third film that goes balls to the walls with sic-fi (dimension x, rock soldiers, etc)

I think the movies will bring in the more extreme stuff later on, kind of like how the 4th transformers has dinobots.

[TigerClaw]

I'll say this, But

Tiger Claw from the Nick series would be cool to see in a sequel. :)

[MikeandRaph87]

Would gladly watch a Triceratons/Fugitoid movie or one with Bishop even.

Mirage worked just fine without Shredder almost all the time, no reason a movie couldn't. 2k3's biggest weakness was it's inability to move past having a Shredder around, in my opinion. Would be great to see things go down Mirage style, and have Shredder straight up killed for sure at the end of the first movie in a series.

That is the problem I have with Mirage after three fights Shredder is removed for good but his shadow does hang over them until the end of the run. Without Krang, Rat King, and evil mutants I just cannot get into it. I feel the black and white comics needed Shredder every few arcs like with IDW thus far and have interesting other reoccurring villains.

[Sumac]

No.
But as far as pop-culture is concerned, Shredder is the ultimate villain of the Turtles, so he always will be brought back, even when there are opportunities to use somebody else.
Famous characters bring more money.

[Davetello]

Yeah, sequels are the one thing I am potentially excited for with this new series, because modern technology could allow them to tap into some of that crazy kinda stuff. Dimension X, A triceraton/Fugitoid story, time travel done right, etc. It may not be exactly how I want it, but to see any of them rendered in the same quality CGI would be preeeetty neat.

Yeah, all of that stuff sounds really enticing. As you say, better technology means there's a realistic chance of that sort of thing being done.

Shredder can always be killed off after the first or second film and then they could branch out into the more alien worlds in a third or even fourth film.

[Coola Yagami]

No.
But as far as pop-culture is concerned, Shredder is the ultimate villain of the Turtles, so he always will be brought back, even when there are opportunities to use somebody else.
Famous characters bring more money.

The problem is every time they try to do a new tmnt movie, it bombs, so it kills any chance of rat kong or whatever in the sequel.

Shredder has to be first. He just HAS to. Nothing says tmnt like having them fight the foot. But the movie has to succeed to make way for other villains in the sequels.

[Tora]

I kinda wish they would have set up the second film for Shredder and let Baxter and his Mousers be the main threat with maybe the Purple Dragons as the fighting challenge.