Do you think the Nick series is using too many Fred Wolf elements?

[Papenbrook]

I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

[Jester]

http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/236x/7d/17/e0/7d17e088d45e1df130968071ce96c11b.jpg
No....no I don't.

[Eiko]

I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

Yes I agree.

[evan2000]

Would you have complained if they were also taking elements from the 4kids series and comics?

Because... they did!

We have the Purple Dragons, Foot Clan, Karai, the entire TCRI/Trans-dimesional portal stuff and Kraang/Utrom Droids all coming straight from 4kids, which in turn came from the comics.

On top of that, there were so many characters in Nick that resemble closer to their 4kids counterpart than Fred Wolf's, such as:

- Raphael (being a hot head, hates bugs)
- Casey Jones (younger but still...)
- Baxter Stockman & Mousers
- Leatherhead (origin and look)
- Shredder (being a serious threat)

Also the upcoming Leo one-shot/North Hampton arc is going to be an obvious nod to the 4kids/comics version. And I'm sure it will be followed by the Return to New York arc after that.

By the time the Triceratons and possibly Fugitoid, Usagi, Foot Elite etc. appear, I guess people will start complaining that Nick is taking too many elements from 4kids :tlol:

I personally think it's completely ok for Ciro to reimagine characters, story arcs and other elements from ANY past series or media as long as it makes sense and adds value to the Nick show. Nick owns the entire franchise anyway and would do what it needs to do to make it better. The combination of new and old elements so far has been awesome!

[Powder]

Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage.

Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on.

& Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard. :tlol:

The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

[Tazi]

Yes, they do!
They really shouldn't revive every dumb character from the past like Pizzaface combined with new crap like alien-ripoff squirrels. Especially since there are far more interesting characters then those in other TMNT media. Hell, even Fred Wolf has a ton of much better characters, I'd rather see then Muckman or Mutagen Man. (tho at least Mutagen Man turned out good)

[evan2000]

Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage.

Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on.

& Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard. :tlol:

The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

Yes I did acknowledge the 4kids stuff in turn came from the comics. I know that.

And I'm not "reaching hard" to say the inclusion Casey Jones is something. You got me wrong. I meant to say the character has a closer resemblance to 4kids/Mirage than OT. Being Raphael's rival turned buddy and all. You gotta give me that! :tlol:

And since you mentioned Ninja Tribunal - does Mystic Ninja Turtle ring any bells? With each turtle tied to a certain nature's element, no?

http://news.toyark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/07/DSC7149.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/Jahumlie/Jahumlie007/100_5459_zps8728a5ed.jpg

[MST3KFan]

Weren't people complaining before when the Nick toon tried doing its own spin as it is?

The whole April O'Neil thing, for example...

[drgon78]

No, I don't think they are.

[Aaronardo]

Yes, it was clever callbacks before, but now it's kind of ridiculous. I wish I could see more Nick-exclusive things, since I liked those so far.

[Tora]

I like the callbacks to the wolf series as it seems they are targeting kids who have parents that grew up watching and buying the 87 stuff. The 87 show was a huge hit so I get why they would go back to that well and reuse many elements from it plus I think a lot of it is fan service to the older crowd which is kinda cool when you think about it.

Depending how long this show runs we may start seeing some of the 4kids elements pop up but maybe they are not using them because that series was so recent. Plus I believe Ciro grew up watching the 87 toon so it makes sense he would used that as a template to build on. I do agree though they should make some more new characters for this series.

[Warhorse]

Yes. At first, it was cute/clever, but now I'm finding myself groaning whenever there is a reference.

[miru]

I'd like them to use more original concepts. TigerClaw was a nice start.

EDIT: Considering the target audience either doesn't know or barely knows about the old characters, it's semi-justified.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Yes. Far too many. to me, it's starting to seem too much like a OT Remake.

I wish they would take some elements from the 2003 series as well to balance it out abit.

[JTH]

This is a franchise with 30 years of characters and stories, take advantage of it. Regardless of what incarnation it is, as long as it's fresh and it's own take.

Hell, the fact that they are even able to come up with as much original material they have is impressive enough with everything that's been used in TMNT.

[Rukitron]

And since you mentioned Ninja Tribunal - does Mystic Ninja Turtle ring any bells? With each turtle tied to a certain nature's element, no?

http://i.toynewsi.com/g/generated/2014_San_Diego_Comic_Con/Playmates_Toys/Panel/IMG_1157__scaled_800.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/Jahumlie/Jahumlie007/100_5459_zps8728a5ed.jpg
what book is that?

They've done enough to keep original it's at least not a super copy paste, but I do feel like they've completely neglected or altered their original concepts for some reason like Xever and Bradford. Xever is pretty much now a joke this season and Bradford got double mutated and changed to Rahzar.

[neatoman]

Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself.

As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.

I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done.

As for too much, let's just say this:
Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions.
The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon...

Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

[Warhorse]

Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself.

As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.

I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done.

As for too much, let's just say this:
Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions.
The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon...

Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

Especially Bishop. I'm surprised they haven't given him a cameo , or something similar (like how the Krang are more or less, impersonating Vernon from the OT) they could have a Bishop like FBI agent investigating the mysterious disappearance of Bradford and other citizens of the area, or trying to get to bottom of the alien invasion and what not.

[Midnight Mutant]

It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.
.
I could have sworn Kirby told them it was called the Technodrome. The naming wasn't random.

[Leofan26]

A little bit, wish the guy would stop acting like the 2003 series never happened and used some elements or characters from it,.

I do like the new spins on it though. I'd love it if they brought that one ninja girl back in this show too but alas.

[neatoman]

I could have sworn Kirby told them it was called the Technodrome. The naming wasn't random.

Well Ok, now I've skimmed episode 25. The Turtles listen in on communication and hear of the Technodrome, so I was wrong. Still, it does seem like it's the first mention of the thing, so it does feel like it's a little late to introduce the concept of "Giant golf ball with an eye" after 24 episodes without much foreshadowing.

[snake]

Maybe, but the show is giving them a new spin instead of just rehashing them.

[terrorblade]

Most superhero cartoons just use existing characters and give their own spin to them. The reason why OT have so many new characters is because they have very limited source material to work with. Using OT characters doesn't make this show an OT remake. Every Spider-Man and Batman cartoons use the same characters over and over again but you don't see people calling the newer versions a remake of the older ones.

[IndigoErth]

Nah, doesn't really bother me if they want to mix in the old with some new elements if they're doing their own take on it and making a good show with it. I mean Bebop may be showing up, but it's certainly a new take on the character making them quite a bit different.

[Coola Yagami]

Most superhero cartoons just use existing characters and give their own spin to them. The reason why OT have so many new characters is because they have very limited source material to work with. Using OT characters doesn't make this show an OT remake. Every Spider-Man and Batman cartoons use the same characters over and over again but you don't see people calling the newer versions a remake of the older ones.

You have a good point. A batman cartoon must have some of the rogues gallery. Same with Spider-Man. How many different cartoon versions do we have of the joker and venom by now?

[CyberCubed]

How ironic that the 4kids series didn't use OT characters (prior to Turtles Forever), and now Nick won't use 4kids characters.

Funnily enough casuals might think Karai, Triceratons and Fugitoid are 4kids characters even though they're Mirage.

[Coola Yagami]

I find it more ironic that the 2k3 is a rather forgotten show since it never featured OT characters and this new show is all over the place because it does bring back OT characters.

Like I said on a topic long ago, this show is making a bigger impact by giving fans what they wanted.

[CyberCubed]

But I don't want countless mutants. I want humans.

[Warhorse]

I find it more ironic that the 2k3 is a rather forgotten show since it never featured OT characters and this new show is all over the place because it does bring back OT characters.

Like I said on a topic long ago, this show is making a bigger impact by giving fans what they wanted.

I figured it's making a bigger impact because it's on a bigger network.

[Huzzah]

Yeah, but human toys don't sell that well, mutants do.

[terrorblade]

I figured it's making a bigger impact because it's on a bigger network.

No question about that. Although I think being the better show helps too.

[Warhorse]

No question about that. Although I think being the better show helps too.

Eh, that's a matter of opinion. I still think season 1-3 of the 2k3 toon is some of the best TMNT ever shown. Nick was promising in the first season, but season 2, except for maybe 3 or 4 episode, I thought mostly sucked. Just my opinion of course.

[CyberCubed]

Eh, that's a matter of opinion. I still think season 1-3 of the 2k3 toon is some of the best TMNT ever shown. Nick was promising in the first season, but season 2, except for maybe 3 or 4 episode, I thought mostly sucked. Just my opinion of course.

LOL, what? The majority of Season 2 was great. The only weak episodes was the Kraang Conspiracy, the Pizzaface one, and the Larp episode.

Seriously, where is this nonsense about Season 2 being bad come from?

[Shark_Blade]

Nick is unique enough to come up with their own storytelling and characters.

In addition to that, they treat us occasionally with some remakes of OT characters.

I see no problem with that; in fact I commended them. But more importantly, I praise and thank God for this blessed gift of a show. Season 1 & 2 has been the best show in TMNT so far.

[terrorblade]

Eh, that's a matter of opinion. I still think season 1-3 of the 2k3 toon is some of the best TMNT ever shown. Nick was promising in the first season, but season 2, except for maybe 3 or 4 episode, I thought mostly sucked. Just my opinion of course.
I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.
LOL, what? The majority of Season 2 was great. The only weak episodes was the Kraang Conspiracy, the Pizzaface one, and the Larp episode.

Seriously, where is this nonsense about Season 2 being bad come from?

Yeah, I honestly believe that Season 2 is much better than Season 1.

[Warhorse]

I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.
.

That's how I feel about the Nick toon at times. Bored. But the trailer shown this week at comic con looks very promising. But I will say, I enjoy Nick's Donnie more than the 2k3. Maybe if they beef up Raph some more, I would enjoy it even more, but right now, it's doing what I think 2k3 did that was bad, giving Raph the shaft. But, it's still new, and I will see how things play out.

[CyberCubed]

I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.
\\.

Some of the 4kids filler episodes were rather dire, but some were also really good. Its the same for any show.

[neatoman]

I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.


Yeah, I honestly believe that Season 2 is much better than Season 1.


I would not call the Fred Wolf cartoon "charming". If anything it's far more boring than the 2003 show since it's basically just the same thing over and over again with very little effort put into it.

As for season 2 of the Nick show, let's just say that it might have been a better idea to develop some minor characters rather than spending entire episodes introducing even more minor characters, introducing unimportant/easily solved plotlines and letting the two major villain factions do evil things just for the sake of doing evil things. Seriously, there's something like 15 characters who are either barely in any episodes or don't seem to serve any purpose, Kirby's mutation barely had anything to do with the plot and was too easily resolved. And the Kraang just seems to do nothing sensical, just generic bad guy stuff because they're villains.

[Shark_Blade]

I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.


Yeah, I honestly believe that Season 2 is much better than Season 1.

I feel exactly the same regarding 2k3. Too much magic, dull alien/planetary adventures, annoyingly obnoxious Casey Jones, Raph sounding like a 50 year old chain smoker instead of a teenager... The list is endless.

Despite the flaws, I especially love what they did with Miyamoto Usagi. Absolutely love him; his demeanor, his physical appearance and his chemistry with Leo. :tlove:

[CowabungaMikey]

Nope, I love it. It's so awesome to see something and be like: ''Oh, that's...!''

[tmntpower1988]

I would not call the Fred Wolf cartoon "charming". If anything it's far more boring than the 2003 show since it's basically just the same thing over and over again with very little effort put into it.

I agree, last time I rewatched the OT I fell asleep during some of the episodes. There's only a few episodes I actually liked but most of them were awful though.

I feel exactly the same regarding 2k3. Too much magic, dull alien/planetary adventures, annoyingly obnoxious Casey Jones, Raph sounding like a 50 year old chain smoker instead of a teenager... The list is endless.

Nick Casey Jones is far more annoying. The Nick series was better when he wasn't in it.

[CyberCubed]

I feel exactly the same regarding 2k3. Too much magic, dull alien/planetary adventures, annoyingly obnoxious Casey Jones, Raph sounding like a 50 year old chain smoker instead of a teenager... The list is endless.

Too much magic? There is one season magic themed, and a few one-off episodes before that. This is out of 7 seasons. As for alien adventures, there's the Season 2 arc and what...? I don't remember the Turtles going into space again after that unless you count the Battle Nexus, which is just an alternate dimension with tournaments.

[neatoman]

Too much magic? There is one season magic themed, and a few one-off episodes before that. This is out of 7 seasons. As for alien adventures, there's the Season 2 arc and what...? I don't remember the Turtles going into space again after that unless you count the Battle Nexus, which is just an alternate dimension with tournaments.

And let's not also also forget that in the comics, after the Shredder's defeat (issue 1) it goes something like this:
Mouser robots.
Car chase.
Crazy vigilante.
Corperate aliens.
Triceratops creatures chasing a cyborg for 3 issues.
Stolen toys.
Time Travel with a crass aardvark.
Jack Kirby's fantasy land.
Splinter being possesed by a dying man.
The escape to Northampton.
7 issues of randomness including retired superheroes.
3 issues that include one of the Triceratops aliens and the revelation that the new Shredder is a worm clone.
About 27 issues that are really heavy on comedy, Sci-Fi and magic.
Then the remaining 14 issues of volume 1 is about depression and war.
After that we have volume 2, have not yet that through yet but it's mostly future visions, cyborg Baxter and an attempt at a Triceraton invasion right?

I don't even to comment on Tales do I? I think it's safe to say we all know how heavy that one is on sci-fi/fantasy.

As for high concepts outside of the comics and the 2003 show:
Technodrome

[Bry]

I think it's done a decent job overall in putting their own spin on all the previously-existing characters/concepts while still "feeling" recognizably like TMNT. At its best, it feels like a really good Mirage/FW mashup. I would like to see some 4Kids characters make the leap, though: I feel like Angel and Hun would work great in this show, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there will be an Utrom reveal at some point (with them being of the same race as the Kraang, but benevolent).

It does seem like they're dipping into the FW/classic Playmates well more and more lately, though. I'm not opposed to it, but I do feel like the more mutants are running around, the less "special" the Turtles feel themselves. And at some point they'll lose the need to be stealthy and hide from humanity when there are dozens of mutants running around in broad daylight at any given moment. I generally prefer the "ninja" in "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" to be equally important as the "mutant" part, and the FW show definitely lost that in its run.

[METALHEAD]

i have no problems with them giving tributes to the OT series and reviving old classic characters from the 80s and 90s. besides the nick series barrows from OT, the 2003 series and mirage comics, the whole series itself is a mixing pot to please every turtle fan whose familiar of what they know and grew up on.

this is why i love the nick series so much.:tgrin:

[Mondo_Gecko]

My problem is when they keep reintroducing characters and sidelining the ones they already have.

I'm the "biggest fan" of the OT and that toyline, but what I loved about the first season of the Nick cartoon was that it was it's own world and had new characters, and I appreciated that. I fell in love with Snakeweed, Dogpound, Fishace, Pigeon Pete and others. And by bringing in Mutagen Man, Pizza Face, Bebop, Rocksteady and now Mondo Gecko and Muckman, they are trying to cram in every character that was memorable. I just want sure those new characters are not forgotten to make way for nostalgia and fan favourites. Also making sure that the returning characters are serviced well and not brought in as pandering.

Perfect example was Mutagen Man. He gets one episode as "Mutagen Man" and then is completely forgotten. Not once in the season or during the creation of retromutagen is Timothy brought up. Didn't Donatello make a promise?

And now on to Bebop & Rocksteady. We already have Rahzar, Fishface, Baxter and now Tigerclaw. Rahzar and Fishface are already underutlized, if Bebop & Rocksteady come in and work for Shredder and that means less Rahzar and Fishface, then I would have a problem with that.

We also haven't seen hide nor hair of Snakeweed, Spider-Bytez, Rockwell or Pete aside from they were all captured, and now more characters?

This season I've felt has really dropped the ball on character development and world building in favor of new mutants. Have they resolved the arc of finding all the Mutagen canisters? Will Mutagen Man be referenced by season's end?

As much as I liked seeing Baxter mutate into a fly, Slash, all the mutants captured, alluding to Bebop & Rocksteady, at the end of the day, I just want a good story, character development and decent world building.

Sometimes, less is better.

[OtakuX]

I dunno. I'm not a big fan of the original show outside of nostalgia (I just can't get into it's style as an adult). The new show using aspects of that show, though, with a few exceptions (I hate that they mutated Stockman), it feels like a decent mix of nostalgia and improvement.

[CyberCubed]

I dunno. I'm not a big fan of the original show outside of nostalgia (I just can't get into it's style as an adult). The new show using aspects of that show, though, with a few exceptions (I hate that they mutated Stockman), it feels like a decent mix of nostalgia and improvement.

Really? The old show has more varied plots than some of the Nick episodes honestly.

[Coola Yagami]

Really? The old show has more varied plots than some of the Nick episodes honestly.

.....no? Just..... no. The characters themselves joke about how repetitive the plots are. How many times is April gonna cover a story on JUST the perfect thing Shredder and Krang need to power the technodrome?

[CyberCubed]

.....no? Just..... no. The characters themselves joke about how repetitive the plots are. How many times is April gonna cover a story on JUST the perfect thing Shredder and Krang need to power the technodrome?

The actual plots of most episodes are completely different from one another, aside from a few repeated plotlines like the Turtles turning into kids twice, or the Turtles going to two different alien Turtle planets, or two episodes where the Earth was colliding with the sun, etc.

[ABrown]

Of all the things that I don't like about the Nick cartoon, using elements from the original cartoon isn't one of them. If a show is well produced and entertaining, I really don't care where it draws inspiration from.

[TurtleTitan97]

If a show is well produced and entertaining, I really don't care where it draws inspiration from.

^ Agreed. Well said. :)

[Warhorse]

Of all the things that I don't like about the Nick cartoon, using elements from the original cartoon isn't one of them. If a show is well produced and entertaining, I really don't care where it draws inspiration from.

Eh, I thought it was going a bit overboard when that one episode had Mikey actually humming the damn theme song. It was cute at first, but now it's getting to be a little bit eye rolling.

[Coola Yagami]

The actual plots of most episodes are completely different from one another, aside from a few repeated plotlines like the Turtles turning into kids twice, or the Turtles going to two different alien Turtle planets, or two episodes where the Earth was colliding with the sun, etc.

Not really. How many episodes are about stealing power for the Technidrome again? They far outnumber the Kraang episodes and even those plots are different due to the characters involved.

[CyberCubed]

Not really. How many episodes are about stealing power for the Technidrome again? They far outnumber the Kraang episodes and even those plots are different due to the characters involved.

And yet the actual plots were different, despite wanting the same outcome

[Shark_Blade]

Agree. Its still fresh storywise, so I dont see the problem. :)

[Coola Yagami]

And yet the actual plots were different, despite wanting the same outcome

The same could be said for repetitive plots for any tv show or cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

The same could be said for repetitive plots for any tv show or cartoon.

Even when the OT did re-use plots, like two shrinking episodes, the actual episodes were completely different.

"The Incredible Shrinking Turtles" from Season 2 is nothing like the Season 4 episode, "Funny they shrunk Michaelangelo." One dealt with the eye of sarnath and the other was with that fat sea captain who wanted to shrink boats so he can play with them in his bath tub.

[Mr Null]

I love all the references and updated characters from the old show.

Ep13-14 where they had the 80's versions appear was super cool. And adding Casey was a nice touch.

Ep 16 - the mention of Ace Duck - although I would of loved a brief appearance too. Plus the mention of mutating a pig and a rhino.

Ep 18 - Irma and April's mobile with the original turtles theme.

Plus Slash appearing twice. Mondo soon to appear, and Rahzar from TMNT 2.

Cant wait to see what is next.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I don't think using OT characters and references is the problem. It just feels as though Ciro is trying to hype fans up by adding more than enough characters and past references to his own creation to the point where it can be an overload of fan service. Not just from the OT but the franchise in general. IMO, that is not how to do a show based on an existing IP. It's very nice to explore the turtle mythos and bring back many elements of what made us love these characters. But to me, there is a line to how much nostalgia you add to an incarnation.

When I look at a past character getting a revamp, I try to look at what is the story behind it. Mutagen Man was done so well is this version and told a tragic tale of a fan who wants to be just like them but ends up turning into something he would not have wanted. Other characters such as Chrome Dome however, didn't really serve a purpose outside fan service. He was just Chris Bradford's suit using Kraang technology. And the last thing I want to see in this show is Venus or anything related to the Next Mutation (that, We Wish You a Turtles Christmas and Turtle Tunes).

This is just my opinion as a TMNT fan. I love nostalgia just as much as the next guy but I don't want it to be the main selling point for this show, especially when it's suppose to be appealing to the newer generation of fans. And at this point, I look forward to the newer characters such as the beavers more than anything from the past.

[Konchadunga]

I might be willing to grant that they are, on account of the many MOTWs, but I have a feeling they'd still have those if they didn't take after Fred Wolf, too.

What I will grant is that sometimes, it feels like the use of Fred Wolf elements is pretty pointless. For example, making Bebop sleek and agile, making Mutagen Man more Monster than Man, and making Kirby into Wingnut--who, so far as I know, wasn't even in the Fred Wolf TMNT show itself--and then de-mutating him. It feels like a cheap ploy to get Fred Wolf fans to care about the MOTWs, when otherwise only kids might.

[Papenbrook]

I really wish the show didn't have anymore Fred Wolf elements, because I am sick and tired of it.

[Metalwolf]

You aren't alone in that sentiment Kraken :tcool:

[ssjup81]

I don't feel there are too many I guess. I would only be bothered if it only borrowed elements from the OT, but it's borrowing/referencing/using elements from the OT, Archie, Mirage, 2k3, the live-action films, TNM..

The only OT specific things I could do without, though are Fly Baxter and the addition of Bebop and Rocksteady.

[Ninturtle]

I might be willing to grant that they are, on account of the many MOTWs, but I have a feeling they'd still have those if they didn't take after Fred Wolf, too.

What I will grant is that sometimes, it feels like the use of Fred Wolf elements is pretty pointless. For example, making Bebop sleek and agile, making Mutagen Man more Monster than Man, and making Kirby into Wingnut--who, so far as I know, wasn't even in the Fred Wolf TMNT show itself--and then de-mutating him. It feels like a cheap ploy to get Fred Wolf fans to care about the MOTWs, when otherwise only kids might.

Kirby wasn't Wingnut that was just a reference when Mikey called him that. And Wingnut was in an episode of the OT I don't remember the name of it.

[Groverman62]

Yeah I feel that the show could tone it down on the callbacks too.

Also I should spend more time here. Does anyone know to get a profile picture

[Powder]

Also I should spend more time here. Does anyone know to get a profile picture

Top left of the site there's a tab called "User CP", click that & you'll be able to make a sig, avatar, detailed profile, etc.

[Shark_Blade]

Actually the more OT elements the better. OT is pretty much the best things to draw inspiration from.

[CyberCubed]

They've already used almost all the major original cartoon characters by now, the only noticeable absent ones are the Neutrinos. I'm surprised we haven't seen them yet.

Other than that the rest of the characters wouldn't fit into this universe (like Vernon and Burne when April isn't a reporter), or random mad scientists/mobsters who have no reason to be used. I don't really expect to see any of the later characters like Lord Dregg either.

[Shark_Blade]

Still waiting for Usagi Yojimbo though.

[Candy Kappa]

Still waiting for Usagi Yojimbo though.

He's not a FW property, though. And chances are Sakai won't allow them to use Usagi.

[neatoman]

Actually the more OT elements the better. OT is pretty much the best things to draw inspiration from.

I strongly disagree, so often the Fred Wolf cartoon told cliché and pointless stories, a lot of the time they're not even decently structured.

[shredder orokusaki]

They've already used almost all the major original cartoon characters by now, the only noticeable absent ones are the Neutrinos. I'm surprised we haven't seen them yet.

Other than that the rest of the characters wouldn't fit into this universe (like Vernon and Burne when April isn't a reporter), or random mad scientists/mobsters who have no reason to be used. I don't really expect to see any of the later characters like Lord Dregg either.

Mobsters has been in mirrage comics 87 and 2003 shows so they will come sooner or later on Nick show that for sure. And mad scientists while most of them were in the ot we also had a few of them in 2003 series. The reason that it has not happend yet is because until now most episodes focused on kraag and mutants monsters . In the Ot and 2003 there was not kraang or so many mutants that why we got more mobsters and mad scientists episodes. Also Burne and Vernoon can appea on Nick shwr but they will not be working on a tv chanell like they did in the 87 show they will be something new and different than what they were in then just liek Bebop and Rocksteady that hasve nothing to do with their 87 versions.

[Powder]

Big Louie & the other mafia types are some Fred Wolf characters I would be MORE than happy to get, but their inclusion seems unlikely.

[CyberCubed]

The only other OT characters I can see appearing:

- The Neutrinos. I'm really surprised we haven't seen anything of them yet. They felt like a shoe-in due to Krang, Dimension X, etc.

- Groundchuck and Dirtbag. Pretty big mutant duo.

- Tempestra. Maybe? She's sort of obscure but I think Ciro can reinvision her as a horror movie character brought to life rather than a videogame one.

- Scumbug. I half expected the Cockroach Terminator to "evolve" into Scumbug, but we haven't seen him.

[CowabungaMikey]

Maybe, but I love the Fred Wolf series :D