Noticing a formulaic pattern in the OT which is quite annoying

[Bo Staff.]

Am I the only one who has noticed that the OT went overkill with mischievous aliens from Dimension X wreaking havoc in/destroying/eating New York City? The Grybyx, Mr. Ogg Goes to Town, The Big Zipp Attack, these are just three I have noticed. They seem to be rehashes of the same annoying plot. I love the OT, but these are by far some of my least favorite episodes.

[ssjup81]

The Ogg ep was really annoying. Now the Grybx and the Zipp I confuse. I forgot which one was the one where the alien ate metal.

[Discogod]

Everybody who ever watch the OT noticed this. It's one of the many reasons why, after the first season, it's nigh-unwatchable (at least in my opinion...).

[neatoman]

The entire series is formulaic. Most episodes follow the same basic plot:
Shredder/Krang find a way to repair the Technodrome/defeat the turtles.
The turtles figure this out.
April get's in trouble.
The turtles beat the villains and celebrate with pizza.

About the only thing that changes is what the thing the villains want to use is and it's usually something like shrinking ray or a weather machine which are rather cliché concepts themselves...

Another thing worth noting is that many episodes are copies of of episodes of other cartoons, in fact, The Big Zipp Attack is almost identical to a Transformers episode called Kremzeek. And Mighty Ducks would feature this plot yet again...

[CyberCubed]

Everybody who ever watch the OT noticed this. It's one of the many reasons why, after the first season, it's nigh-unwatchable (at least in my opinion...).

And that's completely wrong. The majority of the show is quite watchable and often great.

[Autbot_Benz]

I find the Puns breaking the 4th wall jokes another reason that show becomes unwatchable at times.

[MikeandRaph87]

Its because its not the type of humor you like and that is cool, Autobot.

It is easy to mix them up and I am not a fan of Mr. Ogg's episode but the other two were okay especially the Neutrino guest spot in The Grybyx especially if you are a fan of Gremlins.

While on the subject of reoccurring plots, one in which the villain uses heat to threaten the planet with global warming one way or another. Shredder/Krang, Dregg, and Professor Sofo all tried it.

[Discogod]

And that's completely wrong. The majority of the show is quite watchable and often great.

Which is why I clearly stated "in my opinion".

I don't care how many of you consider it the definitive TMNT, it's just not my cup of tea.

[snake]

Everybody who ever watch the OT noticed this. It's one of the many reasons why, after the first season, it's nigh-unwatchable (at least in my opinion...).

Same here, I love the first season and a few select episodes, but most of it is pretty bad.

[mikey22]

"NO DUH. They're after power for the Technodrome in every episode" i believe mike says that in one of the later season 3 eps

THey just rushed these episodes because kids wanted them. Times are different. POwer rangers also has a lot of shows Batman the animated series.. its different now w/a new show only once a week compared to every day

[CyberCubed]

Which is why I clearly stated "in my opinion".

I don't care how many of you consider it the definitive TMNT, it's just not my cup of tea.

When did I say it was my definitive version? I like almost every series and comic series equally. I'm just wondering why you think a show that had tons of great episodes is bad.

[Jester]

Welcome to 80's and early 90's animated series....

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Everybody who ever watch the OT noticed this. It's one of the many reasons why, after the first season, it's nigh-unwatchable (at least in my opinion...).

Which is why I clearly stated "in my opinion".

I don't care how many of you consider it the definitive TMNT, it's just not my cup of tea.

Same here, I love the first season and a few select episodes, but most of it is pretty bad.

I agree with all of these points.

[Discogod]

When did I say it was my definitive version? I like almost every series and comic series equally. I'm just wondering why you think a show that had tons of great episodes is bad.

You didn't say it was, but that seems to be the general consensus on this forum - which is perfectly understandable, as it's the most popular incarnation so far and seems to be the version that has "stuck" in the general consciousness.

As for why I don't like the show? Well, I discovered the Mirage comics first, followed by the Archie run, not to mention the toys. By the time the cartoon made it over here I'd built up certain expectations of what the show would be like, and it sadly didn't meet them. It didn't help matters that the version we got was butchered to the point where many episodes were totally nonsensical (I mean, more than normal). Just a very disappointing show for me, overall.

I will admit that when I saw the original, unedited episodes they made a little more sense, and I did enjoy much of the first miniseason. But once the show started getting even goofier in season 2 and beyond I just lost interest, which was compounded by the lackluster animation and samey plots. I like a lot of the elements and characters that originated in the show, and I'm happy that it was so popular and brought so much awareness to the TMNT, but the show itself just wasn't what I wanted from the Turtles (I had to wait for the 2K3 series for that).

That do ya, 'Cubed?

[neatoman]

"NO DUH. They're after power for the Technodrome in every episode" i believe mike says that in one of the later season 3 eps

THey just rushed these episodes because kids wanted them. Times are different. POwer rangers also has a lot of shows Batman the animated series.. its different now w/a new show only once a week compared to every day


Well it was more about reaching syndication standards quickly and making sure the kids would be aware characters that were getting new toys. This is why season 3 and 4 have such absurdly high episode counts. (Although technically season 4 might be 2 season squeezed together for some reason).

But yeah, even when the syndication standards were met, it still seems a bit rushed...

[Lou 500]

I agree with all of these points.

Same here. Once the nostalgia wore off I grew bored of it quite quickly.

[neatoman]

When did I say it was my definitive version? I like almost every series and comic series equally. I'm just wondering why you think a show that had tons of great episodes is bad.

As for me, well when you're a kid you tend to not really see most of the flaws in a show, kids have a bit of a lower standard as such. I know this myself by going back and watching the 90's Spider-Man cartoon, Pokémon and other old cartoons from my childhood. Some nice surprises are in there such as Superman TAS but most of it is really flawed or at worst awful, I can still enjoy them from a nostalgic point of view but I know that if I didn't have nostalgic feelings over it then I would probably dislike it.

However, the Fred Wolf TMNT is not a cartoon I watched as a kid and as such I don't really have a nostalgia factor so the crappy writing and awful animation is all too clear to me.

[Lou 500]

I find the Puns breaking the 4th wall jokes another reason that show becomes unwatchable at times.

I want to see a parody of OT Raph being wheeled into a psychiatric unit after his brothers an Splinter grow increasingly concerned about his moments where he talks to the "imaginary" audience. The irony would be that their universe is so silly that no one would bat an eye to a green turtle guy occupying a padded room but the notion that he's seeing things is what's abnormal.

[Kingoji]

Another thing worth noting is that many episodes are copies of of episodes of other cartoons, in fact, The Big Zipp Attack is almost identical to a Transformers episode called Kremzeek. And Mighty Ducks would feature this plot yet again...

Ah, David Wise. He's gone on public record that he was writing for so many series at one point that he knowingly used the same plots and just swapped out the characters. He didn't think kids would either notice or care.

[neatoman]

Ah, David Wise. He's gone on public record that he was writing for so many series at one point that he knowingly used the same plots and just swapped out the characters. He didn't think kids would either notice or care.

I don't like David Wise. He seems to be a total hack who also takes more credit than he deserves. He claimed to have created Krang without inspiration from the Utroms until the robot body, no really, he said that he came up with the concept of an alien brain creature who desired a body and then it was just the robot body that was inspired by the Utroms... He has also made simillar claims on Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome even though it's well known that Bebop and Rocksteady were created for the toyline first.

Here's what I believe, I believe that in reality Playmates/Mirage came up with Krang and the Technodrome, David Wise was just hired to connect the pieces.

[CyberCubed]

He still created their characters. Peter Laird was the one who first sketches Bebop and Rocksteady but they were just art at the time. David Wise made them actual characters. David Wise wrote the best episodes of the OT and most of them aside from a few are the most entertaining TMNT eps ever created.

[ssjup81]

I can still watch the OT now, mainly because it's funnier than I remembered it being.

[CyberCubed]

Agreed. The original cartoon came at a time when cartoons weren't expected to have continuing storylines, plot twists, or major character development.

You just tuned in to watch the Turtles foil Shredder/Krang's scheme every week, or whatever other random villain they were facing. The wacky sci-fi plots and strength of the main casts personalities and chemistry made it fun.

The show obviously did have some bad episodes from time to time, but I feel the show had more good episodes than bad ones.

[ABrown]

The original cartoon had episodes that I absolutely loved and some that I wasn't a big fan of. The episodes in question aren't my personal favorites. But if other people love them, more power to them.

[CyberCubed]

The original cartoon had episodes that I absolutely loved and some that I wasn't a big fan of. The episodes in question aren't my personal favorites. But if other people love them, more power to them.

I enjoyed probably around 75% of the OT's episodes. Even the bad episodes have at least one funny moment or good scene I want to see again.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'll second that, Cubed. (Wow, I'm agreeing with Cubed?! Somebody pinch me- I must be dreaming!!) I enjoyed- and still DO- MOST of the OT episodes. Even some that other fans hated, I consider either hilarious, or nice character insight pieces in their own right. Sometimes both. some of the plots might have been formulaic, but that doesn't mean they weren't still funny and/or interesting. Invasion of the Turtle-Snatchers, for instance. How many fans got the "jokes" behind the names of the three aliens, or the alien kid's "toy"?! You have to be a huge sci-fi geek to even notice them! And that's what made them so funny. Most kids wouldn't catch things like that, but even 20+ years later, they are still fun.

[Leo656]

I like almost all the episodes of the OT individually but I have a really hard time doing a marathon run of it. If you've seen one episode you've literally seen them all, story-wise, which makes it a chore to sit through for hours on end. That said, it was still well above the standards of the day in kids' shows, but the standards have changed, is all. Some of the writing is really clever, but you have to sit through a lot of fluff and pizza jokes to get there.

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I like almost all the episodes of the OT individually but I have a really hard time doing a marathon run of it. If you've seen one episode you've literally seen them all, story-wise, which makes it a chore to sit through for hours on end. That said, it was still well above the standards of the day in kids' shows, but the standards have changed, is all. Some of the writing is really clever, but you have to sit through a lot of fluff and pizza jokes to get there.

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:

^^^ This!! Thank you, Leo, once again, for saying what many of us think.

[CyberCubed]

Invasion of the Turtle-Snatchers, for instance. How many fans got the "jokes" behind the names of the three aliens, or the alien kid's "toy"?! You have to be a huge sci-fi geek to even notice them! And that's what made them so funny. Most kids wouldn't catch things like that, but even 20+ years later, they are still fun.

That was a fantastic episode because I loved watching Donatello and Rocksteady forced to work together when they were both captured on the alien spaceship.

I honestly wish they did more episodes like these, maybe even some with Shredder stuck with Leonardo on an alien world or something.

[Warhorse]

I can still watch the OT now, mainly because it's funnier than I remembered it being.

And some of the gags that went over my head as a kid, are a trip to watch now. I like each show for what it was trying to do at the time.

[ssjup81]

And some of the gags that went over my head as a kid, are a trip to watch now. I like each show for what it was trying to do at the time.Yeah, this for the most part. The gags I missed then, I can totally get now.

[Autbot_Benz]

I like almost all the episodes of the OT individually but I have a really hard time doing a marathon run of it. If you've seen one episode you've literally seen them all, story-wise, which makes it a chore to sit through for hours on end. That said, it was still well above the standards of the day in kids' shows, but the standards have changed, is all. Some of the writing is really clever, but you have to sit through a lot of fluff and pizza jokes to get there.

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:

This is the greatest post ever. In all the anti 2014 movie comments section all I see people do is post pics of the 80's turtles and say those are the real ninja turtles and it always aggravates me. I agree some people need to take off the nostalgia goggles and branch out to the other forms of turtles like the Nick Cartoon.

[Refractive Reflections]

The entire series is formulaic. Most episodes follow the same basic plot:
Shredder/Krang find a way to repair the Technodrome/defeat the turtles.
The turtles figure this out.
April get's in trouble.
The turtles beat the villains and celebrate with pizza.

About the only thing that changes is what the thing the villains want to use is and it's usually something like shrinking ray or a weather machine which are rather cliché concepts themselves...


Isn't every series of TMNT formulaic and cliche if we expanded on that though? I mean every Shredder wants to find a new way to destroy the Turtles, the Nick Kraang want to repair/improve their technology/Technodrome just like in the OT, the Turtles in every series figure out every villain's plan more or less, every April has typically been in trouble and been saved by the Turtles, and every series shows the Turtles celebrating/relaxing with a party or pizza somehow?

The only difference is that the OT was designed for syndication and their plots had to wrap up in each episode (which makes it seem more "repetitive"), in 4Kids and Nick they could elongate their arcs/plots longer and possibly intertwine them because they had stronger continuity; yet all three series had the same developments/points mentioned above though.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I like almost all the episodes of the OT individually but I have a really hard time doing a marathon run of it. If you've seen one episode you've literally seen them all, story-wise, which makes it a chore to sit through for hours on end. That said, it was still well above the standards of the day in kids' shows, but the standards have changed, is all. Some of the writing is really clever, but you have to sit through a lot of fluff and pizza jokes to get there.

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:
Precisely. I agree with all of this.

[neatoman]

Isn't every series of TMNT formulaic and cliche if we expanded on that though? I mean every Shredder wants to find a new way to destroy the Turtles, the Nick Kraang want to repair/improve their technology/Technodrome just like in the OT, the Turtles in every series figure out every villain's plan more or less, every April has typically been in trouble and been saved by the Turtles, and every series shows the Turtles celebrating/relaxing with a party or pizza somehow?

The only difference is that the OT was designed for syndication and their plots had to wrap up in each episode (which makes it seem more "repetitive"), in 4Kids and Nick they could elongate their arcs/plots longer and possibly intertwine them because they had stronger continuity; yet all three series had the same developments/points mentioned above though.

Yeah but having the same basic plot in almost every damn episode rather than spreading out the story over multiple ones, means you'll be much more likely to notice repeating aspects and you'll get bored with it much quicker.

[tmntpower1988]

The episode I hate the most is the one with the hillbillies. The mother hillbilly was rotten looking, any time an image of her face pops into my head I feel like projectile vomiting. She looks more manly than the father lol

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:

Yeah I've seen people comment on TMNT videos on Youtube that anything after the OT ruined the franchise. :trolleye:

However, the Fred Wolf TMNT is not a cartoon I watched as a kid and as such I don't really have a nostalgia factor so the crappy writing and awful animation is all too clear to me.

I grew up with the FW series, absolutely loved it when I was a kid. It was my favorite cartoon at the time. I was more into the silly plots and goofiness back then but now I prefer shows with a serious plot. OT just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

[CyberCubed]

I grew up with the FW series, absolutely loved it when I was a kid. It was my favorite cartoon at the time. I was more into the silly plots and goofiness back then but now I prefer shows with a serious plot. OT just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

I don't see why you can't enjoy both. I enjoy the 4kids series for the more serious plots and action, but I still like the original cartoon at the same time for its wacky plots. Same for Nick

[Prowler]

I like almost all the episodes of the OT individually but I have a really hard time doing a marathon run of it. If you've seen one episode you've literally seen them all, story-wise, which makes it a chore to sit through for hours on end. That said, it was still well above the standards of the day in kids' shows, but the standards have changed, is all. Some of the writing is really clever, but you have to sit through a lot of fluff and pizza jokes to get there.

My only real "problem" with the show is that the public won't allow the franchise to "grow" beyond it. So many people still firmly think that the only thing TMNT ever had was that show and two movies (it's sad how many people don't know the fourth or even third movie exists). And a lot of people who do learn about the "expanded universe" don't fully enjoy it , because all their brain leans on is that damn show. :ohwell:
Indeed. Honestly, I'll never understand why people complain about the 4Kids and the Nick series being so different fro mthe FW series and then praise the first movie which is quite different from the FW series as well.

Seriously, is there any other franchise like the TMNT where one version is universally believed to be the "true one" and the others get shunned for not being like it?

[neatoman]

Indeed. Honestly, I'll never understand why people complain about the 4Kids and the Nick series being so different fro mthe FW series and then praise the first movie which is quite different from the FW series as well.

Seriously, is there any other franchise like the TMNT where one version is universally believed to be the "true one" and the others get shunned for not being like it?

The first one is easy to explain, they grew up with both. It does not matter that that the Fred Wolf cartoon and the movie are different, what they remember is being 5-12 and seeing their favouritest cartoon characters on the big screen. It did not matter that Splinter was always a rat, it did not matter that that the foot clan were humans, it did not matter that the Shredder was not clownish, it did not matter that Raph was angry, all that mattered was the mere fact that they got to watch the movie when they were little kids and into TMNT at it's height.

On a similar note. It will also never matter that the 4kids cartoon was similar to the movie or that the Nick show is as similar to the Fred Wolf cartoon they're ever going to realistically get ever again. It's not what they grew up and as such it comes in the way of the versions they grew up becoming the end all be all, even though those versions were flawed as all hell and could stand updates.

As for the second one, yes there is. It's called Star Wars, the hatred of the Star Wars prequels is nothing but a self-sustaining cancer at this point. It may have started as a somewhat understandable dislike since they didn't live up to expectations (which were really high mind you) but now it's annoying nitpicking to the point of insanity. Even I'm not old enough to remember what the fanboy opinion of RotJ was before the prequels, the prequel hate seems to have retroactively elevated it from a lame sequel with muppets to a god given masterpiece.

And if you want my opinion, Empire is the only truly great Star Wars movie. Hope and Jedi are good but not amazing action movies and the prequels are average action movies, maybe a bit of a letdown but not something worth hating or even having a strong dislike of.

[tmntpower1988]

I don't see why you can't enjoy both. I enjoy the 4kids series for the more serious plots and action, but I still like the original cartoon at the same time for its wacky plots. Same for Nick

There were a few good OT episodes which were more serious like The Legend of Koji, Night Of The Rogues, Dirk Savage Mutant Hunter, Night Of The Dark Turtle and Return Of The Turtleoid. The red sky episodes were decent too until Carter came along and that whole second mutation thing ruined it imo.

[ZariusTwo]

Even I'm not old enough to remember what the fanboy opinion of RotJ was before the prequels, the prequel hate seems to have retroactively elevated it from a lame sequel with muppets to a god given masterpiece.

There's plenty to like in Jedi, but yes, the Ewok segment in the middle largely defines it as a weak link in the original trilogy. I do recall being a kid and not being remotely impressed with them.

Loved the Ewok cartoon though.:D

I've come to greatly enjoy the prequels. The weakest link out of them being Attack of the Clones, Phantom and Sith are quite decent once you look past certain irritations.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I assume you mean Jar-Jar. I really don't understand the hate regarding him- sure he's a bit irritating, but so was T-Pee-Oh, back in the day. Han was always getting annoyed enough to turn him off!

I'm one of the fans who honestly likes all three TMNT cartoons, and all of the movies (although I feel that SotO was the 'weakest" one story-wise.) I loved the wackiness of the original cartoon, and I love how Nick has managed to balance that with the darker tone of the 4Kids one. I guess I enjoy them all on their own merits.

[pharaohyami5000]

From watching the Classics series, only most of the episodes from Seasons 5 and 6 began to dull out on me, as I noticed more repetition there than the earlier seasons. Vernon and Burne still bug the hell out of me.

Was that Europe saga supposedly from an earlier season? Because I watched them after Season 6.

[CyberCubed]

The Euro vacation arc was intended to take place during Season 4, which is why the Technodrome is in Dimension X.

They weren't aired in the U.S. till after the 6th season, hence why episode guides incorrectly put them with the Season 7 episodes.

[neatoman]

I assume you mean Jar-Jar. I really don't understand the hate regarding him- sure he's a bit irritating, but so was T-Pee-Oh, back in the day. Han was always getting annoyed enough to turn him off!


Well it's not exactly just Jar-Jar. These reviews are a four and a half hour long nitpicking session. A lot of Star Wars fans seem to agree with them but I have watched through all of them and there would have to be absurdly high standards for movies if all complaints in the reviews are valid.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones/

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/