William the White Washed Shredder: Why We Should Learn Not to Assume

[Mega Man]

I remember people were really upset over a "white washed" Shredder. Well, it turns out Shredder was Japanese in this movie. So what should we learn from this?

*The internet is often full of horse manure.
*Some people like to cause controversy and make up lies.

Remember the 2012 end of the world rumor? Yeah, that was horse manure too.

So this is the last time I fall for some horse manure on the internet.

[Forneus]

Or they simply added incoherent scenes of a brand new Shredder, after the internet's reaction. Which only adds to the horribly incomprehensible patched together mess they released. Sacks was obviously supposed to be Shredder. But they simply axed the hell out of the film, and reshot so much that it's hilarious how scattered the movie turned out to be.

[Galactus]

Yeah it's internet's fault. :ohwell:

Not that Fichtner ever said he was playing the Shredder or anything.

1gzzJckJ7A0?t=13m18s

a6ZAcyvHW_k?t=1m14s

[Radical Raph]

I remember people were really upset over a "white washed" Shredder. Well, it turns out Shredder was Japanese in this movie. So what should we learn from this?

*The internet is often full of horse manure.
*Some people like to cause controversy and make up lies.

Remember the 2012 end of the world rumor? Yeah, that was horse manure too.

So this is the last time I fall for some horse manure on the internet.
That doesn't mean they didn't OBVIOUSLY shove Shredder in there with reshoots. Your post makes no sense as there were plenty of legitimate reasons to believe Fichtner was Shredder.

Oh and the movie sucked. Some of us need to raise our standards.

[RaphaelinSTL]

I remember people were really upset over a "white washed" Shredder. Well, it turns out Shredder was Japanese in this movie. So what should we learn from this?

*The internet is often full of horse manure.
*Some people like to cause controversy and make up lies.

Remember the 2012 end of the world rumor? Yeah, that was horse manure too.

So this is the last time I fall for some horse manure on the internet.

Ha! As everyone else is pointing out, Eric Sachs was clearly supposed to be Shredder but bad PR had them shoot things really fast to ensure that Shredder is an asian. To assume that this was their plan all along is ******** and you're just making a fool of yourself.

Hell, even the actor PLAYING Shredder said the studio wouldn't tell him all the secrecy as to why they never announced anything about it. It's because they're just trying to cover their tracks.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/tohoru-masamune-talks-shredder-in-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-exclusive

This thread is hilarious! Thanks for the laughs!

Oh and the movie sucked. Some of us need to raise our standards.

I think that's the one thing I find the most upsetting about people's overwhelming praises. There's some decent stuff in the film but overall, it's just so bland and not any good. I don't feel I have high standards when it comes to this movie, but it certainly seems like Paramount just laid a big turd on everyone's face and most people are okay with that. It's **** standards.

Yup "make up lies" William Fichtner must have been lying when he said "I play Shredder". Or the makers of the video game must have been lying when they made Sacks shredder.
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7683&d=1407471766
Yup, it was all lies made up by Fichtner and the makers of the video game.

Oh wow, I never even noticed this. This is embarrassing. This thread just got even better!

[Xav]

Yup "make up lies" William Fichtner must have been lying when he said "I play Shredder". Or the makers of the video game must have been lying when they made Sacks shredder.
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7683&d=1407471766
Yup, it was all lies made up by Fichtner and the makers of the video game.

[Shark_Blade]

I believe William Fichtber intentionally misled people to hide the real villain or something along that line. I made mention of this before:

Yeah his early interview video back then when he got casted as Shredder was pretty underwhelming, he didn't elaborate much of why he wanted to play Shredder and such.

Now thinking back, I reckon he's keeping inside details from spoiling us heh. Sneaky.

Found the video from last year. This was when he was first announced to "play as Shredder" or so we/interviewer thought. :D

cUj5yexktuk

See how "enthusiastic" he was lol. Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know..

[RaphaelinSTL]

I believe William Fichtber intentionally misled people to hide the real villain or something along that line.

http://media.giphy.com/media/CHVvWfV0WnJ6M/giphy.gif

[Radical Raph]

Ha! As everyone else is pointing out, Eric Sachs was clearly supposed to be Shredder but bad PR had them shoot things really fast to ensure that Shredder is an asian. To assume that this was their plan all along is ******** and you're just making a fool of yourself.

Hell, even the actor PLAYING Shredder said the studio wouldn't tell him all the secrecy as to why they never announced anything about it. It's because they're just trying to cover their tracks.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/tohoru-masamune-talks-shredder-in-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-exclusive

This thread is hilarious! Thanks for the laughs!



I think that's the one thing I find the most upsetting about people's overwhelming praises. There's some decent stuff in the film but overall, it's just so bland and not any good. I don't feel I have high standards when it comes to this movie, but it certainly seems like Paramount just laid a big turd on everyone's face and most people are okay with that. It's **** standards.



Oh wow, I never even noticed this. This is embarrassing. This thread just got even better!
It's like if you just put something resembling ninja turtles in a movie they'll automatically love it. And it's sad because that's basically what the studio was hoping for. They completely mishandled this entire franchise and everyone is okay with it because they finally got an updated turtles movie.

[NinjaPug]

I guess Platinum Dunes was right. People really are naive enough to believe their BS.

[RaphaelinSTL]

I guess Platinum Dunes was right. People really are naive enough to believe their BS.

It's like if you just put something resembling ninja turtles in a movie they'll automatically love it. And it's sad because that's basically what the studio was hoping for. They completely mishandled this entire franchise and everyone is okay with it because they finally got an updated turtles movie.

Exactly. It's like when you've been wanting to go to your favorite restaurant and you've been thinking about it all week. Time goes by but you can never find the time to actually get there. So you wait and fantasize how awesome it will be once that moment arrives where you sit down and order. You get that and you're excited...you order you favorite food and the anticipation grows. The give you your food and for some reason, it tastes like crap. You can tell that whoever made your food, just slopped it together without any thought or care and it's taste is just downright horrible. It's terribly prepared and it's no way as good as the last time you had it, but you still eat it anyway because you've been thinking about it so much. So you still enjoy it in a way because it's your favorite food, but it doesn't taste anywhere near as good because whoever was making your food....didn't care enough to make it well.

That's what this movie is. A horribly prepared piece of garbage that people are eating. Me? I hated the taste and I want to send it back to the cook to tell them to make it again.

[Radical Raph]

Exactly. It's like when you've been wanting to go to your favorite restaurant and you've been thinking about it all week. Time goes by but you can never find the time to actually get there. So you wait and fantasize how awesome it will be once that moment arrives you sit down and order. You order you favorite food and the anticipation grows. The give you your food and for some reason, it tastes like crap. You can tell that whoever made your food, just slopped it together without any thought or care and it's taste is just downright horrible. It's terribly prepared and it's no way as good as the last time you had it, but you still eat it anyway because you've been thinking about it so much. So you still enjoy it in a way because it's your favorite food, but it doesn't taste anywhere near as good because whoever was making your food....didn't care enough to make it well.

That's what this movie is. A horribly prepared piece of garbage that people are eating. Me? I hated the taste and I want to send it back to the cook to tell them to make it again.
Amen. Platinum Dunes made a **** sandwich out of my favorite dish. The whole movie felt like one long toy commercial with blatant product placement. What a sad industry Hollywood has become.

[Forneus]

The sad part is that William Fichtner is a great actor and his character had the backstory and motivation. No TMNT universe is the same. The idea of an abandoned child, who used an ancient legend to build himself up as the Shredder was fine enough.

Yes, classic Oroku Saki is better, but now we have a nameless soulless husk of a character with no purpose. The whole film is so ephemeral that you can add scenes of a no-name man in almost empty looking sets and it still doesn't change the non-story. What a mess.

No Oroku Saki. No Hamato Yoshi. At least if Sacks wasn't ruined by the reshoots, we'd have an actual character as Shredder. No anymore. And that is a shame.

[MajorViolence]

Hahahahahahahahaha this thread exists.

[NinjaPug]

Amen. Platinum Dunes made a **** sandwich out of my favorite dish. The whole movie felt like one long toy commercial with blatant product placement. What a sad industry Hollywood has become.

This is nothing but a cash grab for PD - like all their movies. They don't give a crap about the quality of what they're putting out. They saw an IP that was popular enough that they could throw any piece of crap out there and make money off it. Truly is a shame but at least some studios actually care about the product they're putting out there while also looking to make money.

[IndigoErth]

William the White Washed Shredder: Why We Should Learn Not to Assume
Yeah... I don't think I'm gonna go for the "movie is infallible - fans/internet are evil and always wrong" view. People keep acting like the makers of this are infallible, while it's actually ok if they aren't entirely perfect with it.

It's not impossible that they decided to make that change in the movie. And really if they DID... I mean it's not wrong. It's wise of them to recognize that maybe it was a misstep that should not be made and for their own good to correct it. It's just stupid if they covered it up. They don't have to admit to when a change was made, they can go ahead and pretend it was done very very early in production if they want... but if they decided it was smart to change it, at least be honest.

[Radical Raph]

This is nothing but a cash grab for PD - like all their movies. They don't give a crap about the quality of what they're putting out. They saw an IP that was popular enough that they could throw any piece of crap out there and make money off it. Truly is a shame but at least some studios actually care about the product they're putting out there while also looking to make money.
This was clearly a movie for idiots. And it is not the turtles movie I would introduce my kids to.

[Forneus]

It's wise of them to recognize that maybe it was a misstep that should not be made and for their own good to correct it.

I am sorry but I don't understand this. I mean, yes Eric Sacks (Oroku Saki lol) wasn't Shredder. But somehow I don't think adding a completely nameless man without any character in the film as Shredder was better.

Just because the Shredder I always knew was asian, doesn't mean that adding a completely random asian man as Shredder is better than having an actual three-dimensional character as Shredder, even if it is Sacks.

It's all appearances. Like characterization and depth is not important, as long as it's vaguely feels like our childhood memories. Oroku Saki, the real Shredder WAS a Japanese ninja and the head of a ninja clan. Eric Sacks isn't any of that. But he felt like a character. He had a story. A meaning to him.

No-name man in the shadows, was nothing. Just an extra. No meat. No depth or soul, no meaning. It's like everything on the surface level, is more important than writing and depth IMO.

[RaphaelinSTL]

I am sorry but I don't understand this. I mean, yes Eric Sacks (Oroku Saki lol) wasn't Shredder. But somehow I don't think adding a completely nameless man without any character in the film as Shredder was better.

Just because the Shredder I always knew was asian, doesn't mean that adding a completely random asian man as Shredder is better than having an actual three-dimensional character as Shredder, even if it is Sacks.

It's all appearances. Like characterization and depth is not important, as long as it's vaguely feels like our childhood memories. Oroku Saki, the real Shredder WAS a Japanese ninja and the head of a ninja clan. Eric Sacks isn't any of that. But he felt like a character. He had a story. A meaning to him.

No-name man in the shadows, was nothing. Just an extra. No meat. No depth or soul, no meaning. It's like everything on the surface level, is more important than writing and depth IMO.

Yeah, I might not have been a fan of Sachs being Shredder overall in the film but at least I could say that it told it's own confident story.

I'm much more keen to appreciate an ambitious failure than a movie that doesn't even ****ing try.

[CyberCubed]

You guys should be thankful shredder is an Oriental.

If Shredder is not of the orient he is not Shredder.

[Xiewin]

You guys should be thankful shredder is an Oriental.

If Shredder is not of the orient he is not Shredder.

Even so, the last minute re-shoots completely messed up the story.

[Xav]

Perhaps they could have pulled a Mandarin and made Shredder a title. The movie could have ended with Shredder's elite guard approaching Sachs and telling him he dishonored the name of their master.

[MajorViolence]

Perhaps they could have pulled a Mandarin and made Shredder a title. The movie could have ended with Shredder's elite guard approaching Sachs and telling him he dishonored the name of their master.

That would have required creative writing.


Seriously though, I found that to be a brilliant save on Marvel's part.

[ZariusTwo]

It's just a pity the Mandarin retcon was'nt made the post-credits scene for Iron Man III, I'd have made the Stark/Banner session a mini-feature instead

[IndigoErth]

I am sorry but I don't understand this. I mean, yes Eric Sacks (Oroku Saki lol) wasn't Shredder. But somehow I don't think adding a completely nameless man without any character in the film as Shredder was better.
Yes, you have a point of course, but I was not going that far into the details in discussing the matter, was not going into if they handled it the right way or not. I prob should have put quotes around "corrected."

[sethmartin]

It's completely obvious that Paramount panicked because of all the negativity and hired reshoots to try and change the film back to something more familiar to the fans. When you listen to Fichtner say "The Shredder in this version is unlike any shredder you've ever seen" and "it's pretty surprising, his relationship with the turtles", it doesn't make any sense. There is no way that we saw the movie that they originally wanted to make. We saw a studio forced chopped and patched up version. What relationship did Shredder have with the turtles in this? None! I don't even think they test screened the movie!
It's heartbreaking to go back and listen to how hyped and excited the cast and crew was on this. Chances are, it probably was good! Different doesn't necessarily mean bad. I kind of hope they release a directors cut of this. Sachs should have been the Shredder, Asian or not!

[Blips]

Perhaps they could have pulled a Mandarin and made Shredder a title. The movie could have ended with Shredder's elite guard approaching Sachs and telling him he dishonored the name of their master.

Yes to this. Since the filmmakers were already going down the Sacks as Shredder route, I wished they'd stuck to that story. If they wanted to react to the backlash, they could've added a scene where Oroku Saki discovers someone in America had assumed the Shredder persona which isn't hard to believe since the public sees the Shredder armor in that crater and it likely ended up on the news. Instead of changing a ton of the existing film, show Saki put on the traditional looking armor surrounded by the actual Foot clan ready to head to America to take on the turtles in the sequel. Show that Saki is furious someone would try to take his title, which would reflect the anger many have that the filmmakers went this route in the first place.

[sethmartin]

If they wanted to react to the backlash, they should have just made the film so good that fans wouldn't care that they changed things! True, nobody wanted an American Shredder, but if they had made the story and character interesting enough, fans would have accepted it. They changed the joker and two-faces origin in The Dark Knight, but nobody cared because it was awesome. I was excited to see the whole "trying to create heroes", "created as weapons" arc! That could have opened the door to other badass mutants. But nope! Just cut all of that out and slap in some random Asian guy as shredder and butcher the hell outta the story just to try and make a few naysayers happy. I don't think the movie is bad but I certainly think it was probably a lot better before Paramount took the axe to it.

[Xiewin]

If they wanted to react to the backlash, they should have just made the film so good that fans wouldn't care that they changed things! True, nobody wanted an American Shredder, but if they had made the story and character interesting enough, fans would have accepted it. They changed the joker and two-faces origin in The Dark Knight, but nobody cared because it was awesome. I was excited to see the whole "trying to create heroes", "created as weapons" arc! That could have opened the door to other badass mutants. But nope! Just cut all of that out and slap in some random Asian guy as shredder and butcher the hell outta the story just to try and make a few naysayers happy. I don't think the movie is bad but I certainly think it was probably a lot better before Paramount took the axe to it.

What a pathetic movie from paramount, and it had so much potential to create a new and fresh story. Honestly, I never really cared that Shredder was white nor the fact that they were originally created as weapons. I thought it was an interesting new take on the turtles. I think it's sad that now instead of making the fans even happier, they just pissed them off even more.

[Blips]

Just cut all of that out and slap in some random Asian guy as shredder and butcher the hell outta the story just to try and make a few naysayers happy. I don't think the movie is bad but I certainly think it was probably a lot better before Paramount took the axe to it.

I don't understand why studios listen to a very vocal negative group on the Internet when there's no clear indication of how big that group actually is. The Internet is filled with negativity and there was going to be backlash towards different aspects of the film no matter what. You can't please everybody.

Plus there's no way to guarantee that appeasing the negative group will get them to buy a ticket. Most people who purchase a ticket are probably casual fans who are unaware of all the hubbub around Shredder. Most of the audience at the showing I went to reacted with awe when Donatello flung Raph into the humvee and that was in the first teaser!

[Coola Yagami]

We didn't assume. William said he WAS the Shredder. They didn't just show him and we all just assumed 'oh he looks evil in the trailer, so since Shredder is the default tmnt bad guy, he just has to be the new shredder'. He came out and told everyone in official interviews that he was the Shredder.

[CyberCubed]

As bad as some aspects of this movie were, let's all thank god they didn't go with alien turtles or white Shredder. At least they reversed two potential horrible things.

[sethmartin]

As bad as some aspects of this movie were, let's all thank god they didn't go with alien turtles or white Shredder. At least they reversed two potential horrible things.

They should have gone with the white Shredder! Sacks should have been the shredder.

[CyberCubed]

Shredder needs to be an Oriental. Sachs can die for all I care.

[Xiewin]

As bad as some aspects of this movie were, let's all thank god they didn't go with alien turtles or white Shredder. At least they reversed two potential horrible things.

Well at least it sets up a better sequel, but it totally ruined the first one.

[sethmartin]

Shredder needs to be an Oriental. Sachs can die for all I care.

I agree but with the story they had, they should have kept Sacks as the Shredder. It would have made the film better than the tacked on Asian Shredder

[CyberCubed]

I think they're saving the Yoshi and Saki origin for the sequel too. Both are likely from ancient Japan.

[Jester]

Sachs should have never been the Shredder to begin with. All this re-do does is sloppily splice an Asian Oroku Saki into the suit in a weak attempt to appease fans when they should have thought about that BEFORE they made Shredder "Generic White Villain #6,743."

But then again, it's better than Colonel Schrader....*vomits*

[Xiewin]

I think they're saving the Yoshi and Saki origin for the sequel too. Both are likely from ancient Japan.

Well at least they are actually listening to fans. But i'm still a bit pissed that the reshoots completely destroyed the whole story.

[Puddinpop]

Well.. for all those that kept saying over and over that this production quickly added him in after wards here is your answer. Sounds to me like he was involved the whole time.. like Eastman kept saying and no one wanted to listen.. Some I think give themselves a little to much credit around here lol. Shredder was kept in the dark on purpose.. to cause controversy and to get people talking. And it worked. It's ok to be wrong sometimes. I am wrong all the time about certain things.. mainly the Dallas Cowboys. If you were one of the people outraged all over the internet.. you actually ended up helping this movie. Man that HAS TO suck to know that :lol: And now the film is on track to knock Guardians out of the number one spot and is projected to earn north of 60 million this weekend.

Here is the quote that interested me

We recently caught up with Tohoru Masamune, and he shared his story with us. He was not allowed to tell friends and family he was playing Shredder all throughout production. He had to keep the entire thing secret until today. Which is strange in and of itself. Why not wait until after the weekend to reveal the real actor behind this new incarnation of Shredder? No one knows!

And this
Tohoru Masamune: They told me that I couldn't say anything until it opens. It's been really weird not being able to tell my friends. Its like I was in the witness protection program or the CIA. But yeah, its something they wanted to keep a lid on. It's supposed to be a surprise for fans. It will be interesting to see what the reaction is. Hopefully it will be positive. I think it was a great move. I think that it will be fun for folks to realize that Shredder is indeed a rocky-socky Japanese dude, you know? Anybody who's a fan knows that he is. So, that was nice. It's interesting that they kept it secret. It's awkward for me in certain ways, because it's very weird for me to have a major role in a big feature, and not be able to tell people. I have one more day, so I'm all good!

And there is a reason no one knows. It was a brilliant marketing ploy. And this isn't the first time its happened. All I want to know is.. when are they announcing TMNT 2?

[Forneus]

Shredder needs to be an Oriental. Sachs can die for all I care.

And this is why the studios can get away with a heartless film. As long as it's superficially like the original story, some will be satisfied.

Who cares about depth and storytelling and worldbuilding. As long as the studios give us empty characters that MIGHT look like our memories, it's fine.

Please tell me about nameless Shredder's incredible's character development. For he must have a story to talk about, right?

[Joey Kamikaze]

Y'all know calling an Asian person an "Oriental" is like calling a black person a "negro," right?

And it doesn't matter what the liars in the PR department want to say after the fact, Sacks was so blatantly, obviously supposed to be Shredder before some fairly late re-shoots. Nevermind all the evidence from the video game and the interviews, you can tell they were originally supposed to be one character just from watching the movie.

Remember: all press releases, advertising, etc. is written by people paid to lie to you in order to take your money.

[sethmartin]

According to this film, you can learn how to be Asian from a book!

[CyberCubed]

Y'all know calling an Asian person an "Oriental" is like calling a black person a "negro," right?

Oriental isn't a slur, its what people used to call Asians in my grandparents days.

[TrickOrTreater]

Sachs should have never been the Shredder to begin with. All this re-do does is sloppily splice an Asian Oroku Saki into the suit in a weak attempt to appease fans when they should have thought about that BEFORE they made Shredder "Generic White Villain #6,743."

But then again, it's better than Colonel Schrader....*vomits*

Exactly. This 11th hour poor attempt to salvage any kind of fan excitement(outside of people who actually enjoy shutting their brains off for 1.5 hours of b*llshit) should never, ever have happened if they had just gone with it in the first place.

[Jester]

Oriental isn't a slur, its what people used to call Asians in my grandparents days.
Um....is it still your grandparents' day? Are you your grandparent?

I mean my grandma, without any ill intent, still calls black people "colored". Should I take to using that outdated racial signifier?

[CyberCubed]

Well the original TMNT cartoon had a Euro vacation episode called, "Turtles on the Orient express" and that was produced in what...1990? They still used the term Oriental in the 90's.

[mgambino]

Well.. for all those that kept saying over and over that this production quickly added him in after wards here is your answer. Sounds to me like he was involved the whole time.. like Eastman kept saying and no one wanted to listen..

Except he wasn't cast in the movie until after production had wrapped and they started re-shoots. He posted about it on twitter that he was just cast in big movie right around the re-shoots.

Also, in the Video Game, which I would assume was based on the early draft, Sachs is Shredder, flat out.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

According to this film, you can learn how to be Asian from a book!

I think this statement is a bit much, I think you are over reacting.

[Jester]

Well the original TMNT cartoon had a Euro vacation episode called, "Turtles on the Orient express" and that was produced in what...1990? They still used the term Oriental in the 90's.
The Orient Express is the name of a known train....

[Puddinpop]

I believe William Fichtber intentionally misled people to hide the real villain or something along that line. I made mention of this before:

I agree. But some people are so egotistical that they have to talk about this non stop lol..
It's like they need justification for all of the complaining for months and months. With Shredder.. They created controversy around the film to get people talking. It worked. Yes.. they actually CAN do something right ya know lol. People moaned and complained all over the internet about their childhoods being raped and now that we see that he actually IS Japanese all the same people want to talk about is " See.. we were right and they knew it.. they changed it at the end bc they were wrong and he's only Japanese bc WE made them change it at the end" Uh.. it's this uncontrollable need to feel important. Anyways..
I don't see it that way lol. I see like this.. They played the internet like a violin. They took a page from Star Trek and Iron Man.. took advantage of how ridiculous the internet is with social media and everything. This movie was the talk of the internet for years. The ones that complained about white Shredder and tried to spread negativity and paranoia all over the internet actually ended up helping this movie attract more attention in the end.

[Leo656]

Neat theory. You're still wrong. I'd put money on it.

[JTH]

Sachs should have never been the Shredder to begin with. All this re-do does is sloppily splice an Asian Oroku Saki into the suit in a weak attempt to appease fans when they should have thought about that BEFORE they made Shredder "Generic White Villain #6,743."
You wouldn't happen to be able to name "Generic White Villian" # 1 - 6,742 could you? :P

[Leo656]

Wasn't that the guy from the last Die Hard movie?

[Slade]

Neat theory. You're still wrong. I'd put money on it.

Toss in some of mine too.

[MajorViolence]

I'd join in on that bet too.

Seriously the horrible editing made it so obvious I find it absolutely hilarious that some people still consider it up for debate.

[Leo656]

You know what they say... "Denial" ain't just for chicks three weeks late on their period.

Nah, I'unno what they say.

[sdp]

I didn't keep up with the film too much mostly because it was a mess and all the negativity it was annoying for me so I kept in the dark about most of the production of the movie...Anyway I all I remember was Cybercubed whining about white Shredder in every thread. I thought Oroku Saki in the movie was awesome but looking back he does randomly appear there and not in a "this is a secret they're saving for next movie" kind of way. I like the movie the way it is but looking back it does feel like many things in the movie were cut off.

So I wonder how different the original movie would've been, I bet some parts would've flowed better like the final battle and more back story for Sachs and even the foot Ninja which was sadly lacking in the movie. Maybe the explanations would've made us all mad but at least it would've had explanations. I guess if they really were bad it was for the best as the foot background can still be fixed in the sequel since nothing was really said here which if they had explained it here there was nothing else they could've done.

It also make perfect sense this movie was supposed to be a big hit and it kept getting nothing but bad press with every piece of news, I can see the studio panicking and doing the reshoots and cutting up the movie in an attempt to fix it. I don't know how the original movie was but this "cut up" version was great for me. It makes me wonder about the budget, all these last minute things probably upped the budget to 200 million instead of the 125 it was supposed to be which means it has to make more money to break even.

[TrickOrTreater]

The "it was a surprise they were saving for the movie" argument makes me laugh.

If, IF, that were the case, do you really think they would have gave it away so blatantly in one of the f*cking trailers?

It was practically telegraphed with a neon sign.

[Commenter 42]

The "it was a surprise they were saving for the movie" argument makes me laugh.

If, IF, that were the case, do you really think they would have gave it away so blatantly in one of the f*cking trailers?

It was practically telegraphed with a neon sign.

Clearly they changed it. Cybercube demanded it! :lol:

it's proof they too have been lurking here...anyone could be a suit... watch you backs...they could be anywhere.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

I don't understand why studios listen to a very vocal negative group on the Internet when there's no clear indication of how big that group actually is. The Internet is filled with negativity and there was going to be backlash towards different aspects of the film no matter what. You can't please everybody.

Plus there's no way to guarantee that appeasing the negative group will get them to buy a ticket. Most people who purchase a ticket are probably casual fans who are unaware of all the hubbub around Shredder. Most of the audience at the showing I went to reacted with awe when Donatello flung Raph into the humvee and that was in the first teaser!

Ok here is a question that I have. I honestly believe that studios couldn't care less about the "real fans" because I've seen enough comic book characters butchered by Hollywood. But here's the thing. Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible? Why do they feel the need to "change" stuff. I mean if the "average Joe" goes in to watch it he's not gonna know if it's close to the source material or not. So what's the danger in making it as close as possible? It seems there is far more danger in NOT honoring it because you get so much negative word of mouth press around your film. I just don't understand these people at all. TMNT has made BILLIONS of dollars off of the established mythology so WHY change that? That just seems incredibly stupid to me. It's like companies have forgotten the lesson that was "New Coke". There was a profitable formula but then some idiot said "Hey! Let's change it!" and you see how that turned out. That is what Hollywood does constantly.

[Xiewin]

They obviously changed it due to backlash, no denying it now.

[Commenter 42]

Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible?

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.

[sdp]

I wouldn't normally think internet backlash would've caused the re-shoots just look at all the backlash the Transformers movies get online, but come on, it makes too much sense they cut the movie up and for the best, I thought it was a good movie.

[Commenter 42]

I wouldn't normally think internet backlash would've caused the re-shoots just look at all the backlash the Transformers movies get online, but come on, it makes too much sense they cut the movie up and for the best, I thought it was a good movie.

Transformers backlash caused both a redesign of Megatrons face, and the casting of the original voice of Prime, Peter Cullen.

Cullen replaced Liam Neeson, and though fans tried to get Frank Welker to play Megatron, Bay wouldn't budge.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.
Well I wasn't really trying to rant as much as I was just honestly trying to inquire but believe me I CAN rant! LOL. Yeah Watchmen is a prime example of Hollywood thinking they know more than the actual creators. I mean Watchmen is LITERALLY the ONLY comic that is listed on Time Magazine's Top 100 Pieces of Literature of the 20th century but then Hollywood comes along and says "We can actually improve upon that" and then precedes to demolish the complete work of art they started with. The bottom line is you would THINK they would want to make a movie where EVERYbody wins.

[Commenter 42]

Well I wasn't really trying to rant as much as I was just honestly trying to inquire but believe me I CAN rant! LOL. Yeah Watchmen is a prime example of Hollywood thinking they know more than the actual creators. I mean Watchmen is LITERALLY the ONLY comic that is listed on Time Magazine's Top 100 Pieces of Literature of the 20th century but then Hollywood comes along and says "We can actually improve upon that" and then precedes to demolish the complete work of art they started with. The bottom line is you would THINK they would want to make a movie where EVERYbody wins.

Like I said, with you 100%.
Been campaigning round these parts for a GOT tonned TMNT for a bit. Not an exact comparrison, clearrly, but I think, if done right, it could rule the airwaves just like Breaking Bad or MadMen did. It's all there in the comics.

I honestly don't mind if they take a few liberties with the source material, sol long as it fits the theme and tone. Take the damned property seriously as a piece of subversive writing, as it was intended to be from the beginning.

hell, I'd even argue that the first 5 episodes of the OT had more in common with Mirage, from a certain vantage point, than 2014.

[TrickOrTreater]

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.

See I would agree, but now that Guardians of the Galaxy exists and is HUGELY successful(and a great movie, how novel of them) that just goes out the window.

Sure, some things can't be adapted between comics(or books) and movies. They're two different mediums with different but valid ways of telling a story.

That's fine. Some things just can't happen.

But to go into a property and change something because you(general you) just want to because it fits YOUR sensibilities better, is horseshit.

There was absolutely NO bloody reason to originally make Shredder white other than because that's apparently what Michael Bay and maybe the writers wanted. There was NO reason to delete Hamato Yoshi entirely from this movie other than that's just what they wanted.

And before anybody says "it's made for kids, kids don't care." Exactly. F*cking exactly. The kids won't care either way so why NOT adapt it the right way?

So yeah, there's no reason for these types of changes other than the writers/producer/director wanted to change it because.

[Blips]

Ok here is a question that I have. I honestly believe that studios couldn't care less about the "real fans" because I've seen enough comic book characters butchered by Hollywood. But here's the thing. Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible?

I think the filmmakers believed they were making a film for the real fans and did not expect a backlash at all. They also probably wanted to change some things so the film had its own voice and wasn't just a remake of the first film with CG main characters instead of guys in suits.

I don't know why they felt the need to make Sacks Shredder in the first place, but since they were already down that route, I wish they had the courage to stick to their convictions.

The Nick show is an excellent example of mixing the original comics and cartoons backstory while adding new elements to keep things fresh, which would've been a better route for the film to take. I'm honestly surprised its not more in line with the Nick show as it is.

[Joey Kamikaze]

The thing with all the changes is... well, this is how Hollywood works (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XYa6JzjG4):

The execs obsessed with making money tend to cut stories apart because they think they'll make more money by doing what's worked before. Especially when you're talking people like Michael Bay, it's all about what they think will drive profits, not what's true to the license or has artistic merit or yadda yadda yadda. So if you're going to ask "Why did they make change X or change Y?" the answer is "A group of 50-80 year olds in ten thousand dollar suits who remember seeing some of this Teenager X-Man Karate Turtle show one time when their grandkids were watching it said the focus groups want X and the last few movies they made with Y had good opening weekends, so that's what the writer was ordered to put into the script."

[MajorViolence]

I think the filmmakers believed they were making a film for the real fans and did not expect a backlash at all. They also probably wanted to change some things so the film had its own voice and wasn't just a remake of the first film with CG main characters instead of guys in suits.

I don't know why they felt the need to make Sacks Shredder in the first place, but since they were already down that route, I wish they had the courage to stick to their convictions.

The Nick show is an excellent example of mixing the original comics and cartoons backstory while adding new elements to keep things fresh, which would've been a better route for the film to take. I'm honestly surprised its not more in line with the Nick show as it is.

Yeah, before the script leaked, I was certain the movie would be a spinoff of the TV show, or at least be heavily related in order to benefit from its popularity. You would think they could easily handle it like Out of the Shadows, which would please practically everyone. Oh well.

[Radical Raph]

It's sad though because even if Shredder was meant to be Asian and even if he wasn't tossed in at the last second with reshoots, you don't get that sense from the movie. Asian Shredder still feels tacked on with Sacks running the show.