Where did Shredder meet Krang?

[kitanablade]

This is something I hadn't really thought about until somewhat recently. So Krang was banished from Dimension X, and transformed into a brain with 2 tentacles and eyes and a mouth (and he obviously hears somehow)

I would guess he's have a hard time getting around, I wonder where he and Shredder met. And, I always thought being both of them evil, that neither would want to be subordinate to the other, or even equal partners, one would have betrayed the other if they had the power and opportunity to do so. I remember an episode where Shredder said "I have a brain that I need to make beg for mercy" I can't remember what episode, but it failed.

Is there any prequel where we see them meet. And, I'm guessing before Krang was banished he had a real body, not just an a brain inside an android controlling it, he was the brain of that organic body, not just something inside seperate that was controlling it.

[CyberCubed]

They never explain it, but it had to have happened somewhere in Japan where Shredder was controlling the Foot. He probably crash-landed in a spaceship somewhere in Tokyo and was discovered by Shredder. Krang promised Shredder plans or world domination and Dimension X weaponry, so the two agreed to work together.

[Prowler]

They never explain it, but it had to have happened somewhere in Japan where Shredder was controlling the Foot. He probably crash-landed in a spaceship somewhere in Tokyo and was discovered by Shredder. Krang promised Shredder plans or world domination and Dimension X weaponry, so the two agreed to work together.
But remember, Shredder said that he got access to advanced technology in the USA. And the foot soldiers were human in Japan. I mean, they spoke something that the robotic ones did not.

I'm guessing Shredder got tired of only ruling Japan and decided to take over the world going to the USA next. Also, he knew Splinter had escaped to NYC and went there to kill him. So I guess he might have met Krang in the States. Although meeting him in Japan isn't a long shot either.

What I truly wonder is what happened to the foot in Japan. The foot clan in the show was nothing more than Shredder, Krang, bebop, Rocksteady and some foot robots. Could have been a good opportunity to add Karai to the show or something...

[kitanablade]

But remember, Shredder said that he got access to advanced technology in the USA. And the foot soldiers were human in Japan. I mean, they spoke something that the robotic ones did not.


I don't recall the robotic ones ever speaking at all, not a single word, but I do remember the ones in Japan (Splinter somehow knew that the foot clan had turned into 'an army of crime' I'm guessing he was in contact with someone from there) telling the kid with the ice cream cone (exactly) "stick em up"

I'm guessing Shredder got tired of only ruling Japan and decided to take over the world going to the USA next. Also, he knew Splinter had escaped to NYC and went there to kill him. So I guess he might have met Krang in the States. Although meeting him in Japan isn't a long shot either.


One thing we do know is that (provided the turtles age at the same rate as human teenagers) Shredder had met Krang at least 13 years before the cartoon started, as he said Shredder tried to use the mutagen to kill Splinter, not mutate him.

But, I wonder, where the Technodrome and all that advanced tech in it come from? I think Krang was banished with it, I don't think it was made on Earth with knowledge Krang gave Shredder, if it's even possible to make something that advanced with Earth's technology.

Also What I truly wonder is what happened to the foot in Japan. The foot clan in the show was nothing more than Shredder, Krang, bebop, Rocksteady and some foot robots.

I'm guessing Shredder killed the master (remember neither he nor Splinter were leaders of the foot, someone senior to them came in the first episode- maybe not the leader though) and turned it into a criminal organization- or maybe he just died of old age.

[Davetello]

Some good discussion in this thread guys. However, I think overall we have to bear in mind that it was a light-hearted TV show so it's probably not designed to have made sense - there will be plot holes. Although that first season was more serious in tone so perhaps we should try and find an explanation for Shredder and Krang's initial meeting.

[Lisardo]

Very interesting topic! I've at times wondered this myself. Cubed's idea seems to make the most sense. I'd definitely see Krang as desperate enough to enlist help, in his particular situation (having lost his body and all). Perhaps he was banished to earth then.

[Commenter 42]

They met at a singles bar in Hoboken (http://www.hobokenturtleclub.com/).
It was ladies night.

[ssjup81]

I'm guessing Shredder got tired of only ruling Japan and decided to take over the world going to the USA next. Also, he knew Splinter had escaped to NYC and went there to kill him. So I guess he might have met Krang in the States. Although meeting him in Japan isn't a long shot either.I don't think he did. When he saw the turtles fighting, recognizing their fighting style, his reaction was of surprise. "Hamato Yoshi still lives?!"

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, we DO know that he at least still employed humans in his "Ninja (fill in the blank)" businesses in the first few episodes. I think those were the "REAL" Foot. He was using them to work his front businesses to fund his operations with Krang! As for where/how they met, it's debatable whether it was in Japan, since he had to hunt down Yoshi in New York, and probably wouldn't have brought Krang and the mutagen all the way from Japan to do so. As for what happened to the ones in Japan, I don't think any wee left- he probably killed off all the ones who didn't agree to follow him, and took the rest with him to New York.

[Shark_Blade]

A cafe downtown where they accidentally stumbled upon each other.

It was love at first sight.

[DarkFell]

If there is any mention about how those two met each other in the original comics, then read from those and draw up your own speculation of how ninja met alien brain in the cartoon. As for Krang's original bod, watch an TMNT episode called "Invasion of the Krangazoids". The episode has some Krang clones that actually grow bodies. That might have been what Krang might have actually looked liked before he was disembodied and banished from Dimension X.

[neatoman]

Yeah I always found that to be strange, it seems like it would be such a major event but it dosen't even have a passing mention.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

I did write a fanfic ("The Shredder Is Born") to answer these questions. Good an explanation as any.

[Prowler]

I don't think he did. When he saw the turtles fighting, recognizing their fighting style, his reaction was of surprise. "Hamato Yoshi still lives?!"
But he did try to kill Splinter with the mutagen, so he definitely knew he was in NYC. He didn't know his plan had failed, obviously. He said "They are the turtles. Hamato Yoshi's turtles!"

This brings up another question. Why did Shredder try to kill him with the mutagen? Makes no sense at all.

[Icebot]

This brings up another question. Why did Shredder try to kill him with the mutagen? Makes no sense at all.

It's probably what would happen if Hamato Yoshi wasn't with any animal.

[Prowler]

It's probably what would happen if Hamato Yoshi wasn't with any animal.
But he knew he had pet turtles. And that brings up another question, this one much more common: Why did Yoshi mutate into a rat instead of a turtle when the last animals he had touched were the turtles?

And Seymour, who'd later become the Mutagen Man, didn't die from falling into a tank full of mutagen.

[Refractive Reflections]

Ah... One of the biggest unsolved mysteries of the OT. :lol: One major flaw of the OT series was the introductions were very big and elaborate, but the conclusions to the plots and subplots were abrupt or unresolved. Therefore it leaves a lot of open-ended speculation on what happened, both to its advantage (creates a sense of mystery) and detriment (the fact that it's not resolved); which is why I don't consider "Divide and Conquer" a satisfying series finale for the OT.

...But anyways back on topic, simply based on the first season, it seems sometime between when Shredder took over the Foot Clan in Japan and before Shredder dumped the mutagen in the sewers of New York City. As to what happened exactly, let your imagination run wild. :P:lol:

[Prowler]

Ah... One of the biggest unsolved mysteries of the OT. :lol: One major flaw of the OT series was the introductions were very big and elaborate, but the conclusions to the plots and subplots were abrupt or unresolved. Therefore it leaves a lot of open-ended speculation on what happened, both to its advantage (creates a sense of mystery) and detriment (the fact that it's not resolved); which is why I don't consider "Divide and Conquer" a satisfying series finale for the OT.

...But anyways back on topic, simply based on the first season, it seems sometime between when Shredder took over the Foot Clan in Japan and before Shredder dumped the mutagen in the sewers of New York City. As to what happened exactly, let your imagination run wild. :P:lol:
Well, as a kid, I didn't really wonder about how Shredder and Krang met. And in how many cartoons do you get to know how the main villains meet? Kids need to know from the first episode who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

We get to know in the Red Sky seasons that Berserko designed the Technodrome and also helped build it, if I recall.

[Refractive Reflections]

Well, as a kid, I didn't really wonder about how Shredder and Krang met. And in how many cartoons do you get to know how the main villains meet? Kids need to know from the first episode who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.


The reason I only wondered about how they met, when I was a kid, was because of Krang and Shredder's bickering, and we know how prevalent that is in the series.:lol: I thought, "If they can't stand each other, why are they together again? Krang's already got his android body and Shredder's got his Foot Clan." :lol:

[Prowler]

The reason I only wondered about how they met, when I was a kid, was because of Krang and Shredder's bickering, and we know how prevalent that is in the series.:lol: I thought, "If they can't stand each other, why are they together again? Krang's already got his android body and Shredder's got his Foot Clan." :lol:
They needed to join forces to take over the world. And we all know how Shredder planned on betraying Krang someday. :P

[kitanablade]

It's probably what would happen if Hamato Yoshi wasn't with any animal.

It mutates you into a hybrid of whatever animal you were most recently in contact with, I'm guessing it doesn't matter how long ago it was, except maybe if it's newborn baby.

Makes me wonder a few things about it. The only mutations we saw involved humans and another animal, for Splinter a rat, turtles a human.

What if the turtles had most recently been in contact with the rats instead of human Splinter, would it be the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Rat Turtle Hybrids?"

Or, what would happen if someone receives a second dose of mutagen after they've already been mutated, or subsequently after that.

[kitanablade]

If there is any mention about how those two met each other in the original comics, then read from those and draw up your own speculation of how ninja met alien brain in the cartoon. As for Krang's original bod, watch an TMNT episode called "Invasion of the Krangazoids". The episode has some Krang clones that actually grow bodies. That might have been what Krang might have actually looked liked before he was disembodied and banished from Dimension X.

I also remember an episode of the TMNT cartoon where it shows Krang working with a few other brain-people just like him in Dimension X before he was banished, which I guess slipped the minds of the writers, as they forgot he had a body before. It would also be interesting to see what exactly/specifically it was that stripped him of his body. He said he lost it when he banished, what he may mean is whoever banished him took it away, I don't think it was the trip through the portal to earth that did it.

[sdp]

This could've been such a great episode, shame they never utilized it.

[tfranzone]

Ive wondered about this in the past too.. interesting to see what everyone thinks of it.. somewhat related but not OT wise,most recent Cory Smith drawn issue #37 of the IDW series has Krang and Shredder meeting together and yea, semi spoiler here.. nah i dont thinks so... maybe a little... anyway...
its the same song and dance as the OT....bickering and failings on both ends even though they feel they need each other..but truly want to deceive one another haha

[Prowler]

I also remember an episode of the TMNT cartoon where it shows Krang working with a few other brain-people just like him in Dimension X before he was banished, which I guess slipped the minds of the writers, as they forgot he had a body before. It would also be interesting to see what exactly/specifically it was that stripped him of his body. He said he lost it when he banished, what he may mean is whoever banished him took it away, I don't think it was the trip through the portal to earth that did it.
Possibly utroms? Or an alien race inspired by the utroms?

[Sumac]

Possibly utroms? Or an alien race inspired by the utroms?
It was in episode Foru Mousketurtles.
And those guys looked like Krang, save for one having 'stache. So either there is a race, which due strange coincidence all look like alien who was stripped from his body...or somebody was quite innattetive and missed first season of the series.
Considering it was not the one of the many continuty "goofs-up" in the series (two Atlantis, Baxter), I think it's the latter.

As for how Shredder and Krang met each other...I really hoped that there will be episode elaborating on Krang's origins and him meeting the Shredder for the first time, but sadly nobody have decided to do it.

Also, I find it interesting - in the first episode, Foot Clan had seemingly legal cover (building under which Technodrome was kept), but later no mention about it was made whatsoever. Kids series. Yep.

[sdp]

It was in episode Foru Mousketurtles.
And those guys looked like Krang, save for one having 'stache. So either there is a race, which due strange coincidence all look like alien who was stripped from his body...or somebody was quite innattetive and missed first season of the series.
Well it was a goof or they just didn't care and decided to give him a better backstory. IIRC that one 4 second scene was more of a quick comedy sketch no? And in pretty lackluster episode.

Of course it does break continuity and I actually prefer Krang being a species of Brain since I would've retconned him into an evil Utrom if they hadn't given him a background. But since they did we have to deal with it, some theories I have is that this flashback happened with Krang being with some other "ousted" members of his species without bodies. And Krang having a body makes sense since they do always mention Krang having a body on various episodes. A weaker theory is that Krang really is a Brain since the reptile body for Krang they never mention that that is what he looked like before, it's only implied but not outright told. It could've easily been just a body that grew on him. The body references would be to his Android Body which makes sense since he also always refers to it as his body and he knew how to tell someone to construct it. In this case the flashback makes perfect sense.


Considering it was not the one of the many continuty "goofs-up" in the series (two Atlantis, Baxter), I think it's the latter.

Well the two Atlantis is definitely a goof but is it even that big of a screw up? I don't remember either episode very well but I don't remember any huge contradictions, I remember the general consensus on the Drome was that they were just two different sections of Atlantis.

How is Baxter a goof though? I don't remember any, the only thing is that in all the Baxter episodes they show how he escapes from the ending of the last episode except one of them but that's far from a big goof, he obviously escaped somehow, if we count that then half of the OT turtles have goofs because only Baxter episodes explained how he got out of certain situations.

A bigger goof is the turtles visiting different parts of Europe in the European vacation and not remembering.

[DarkFell]

Only thing that I can really surmise is that whatever happened to Krang that reduced him to his 'brain state' was probably never entirely stated because the creators of the show wanted to keep it separate from the comic versions of TMNT (which seemed liked Krang always was an alien brain, ultrom, whatever, that inhabited a body), and they figured that our *then child-like minds* wouldn't grasp the subject of an alien lifeform getting disembodied in front on our own eyes, or that we would be too disturbed to see the rest of the show after that one clip / episode.

Also fun to note is that Krang never was called an utrom in 80's TMNT; he was actually referred to as a Ganglion which I found to be a bit of a sly poke that seem like the writers had some intention to keep the cartoon different from the comic.

[Sumac]

And Krang having a body makes sense since they do always mention Krang having a body on various episodes.
I never said that there was a problem with Krang having a body.

A weaker theory is that Krang really is a Brain since the reptile body for Krang they never mention that that is what he looked like before
Krang having a body is not a theory. It's sort of undeniable fact. :o
It was constantly mentioned that Krang is a brain, whose natural body was disintegrated, when he was sent to the Earth.

Well the two Atlantis is definitely a goof but is it even that big of a screw up? I don't remember either episode very well but I don't remember any huge contradictions, I remember the general consensus on the Drome was that they were just two different sections of Atlantis.
Different sections?
More like different cities. But since one of those episodes was in Euroseason...

How is Baxter a goof though?
I should have elaborated about it.
In one of the episodes Baxter stucks between dimensions with the AI from spaceship (Bye-Bye Fly). In his next episode he appears without (Lord of the Flies). And in the next episode he once again has it (I think, it was Son of the Return of the Fly II).

The whole Europian season is a one big continuity hiccup.

they figured that our *then child-like minds* wouldn't grasp the subject of an alien lifeform getting disembodied in front on our own eyes, or that we would be too disturbed to see the rest of the show after that one clip / episode.
They didn't have problem with showing Baxter transformation into the fly, though.

[DarkFell]

[/QUOTE]They didn't have problem with showing Baxter transformation into the fly, though.[/QUOTE]

Stockman's transformation is/was jarring. Seeing an reptile-like alien getting disembodied (by whatever means was used), might have been too much at the time.

I'm not here to start an argument; this is just opinion since no one really knows what happened to Krang except for random individuals within Dimension X *like the Neutrinos* that saw it happen.

[Prowler]

They didn't have problem with showing Baxter transformation into the fly, though.[/QUOTE]

Stockman's transformation is/was jarring. Seeing an reptile-like alien getting disembodied (by whatever means was used), might have been too much at the time.

I'm not here to start an argument; this is just opinion since no one really knows what happened to Krang except for random individuals within Dimension X *like the Neutrinos* that saw it happen.[/QUOTE]
I remember watching "Enter The Fly" for the first time when I was about 7-8 years old and finding it a bit graphic. As a kid, I actually thought Baxter was actually going to die, which made me feel uncomfortable. And April was on the verge of death the whole episode. Definitely one of the most "violent" episodes form the FW series.

[DarkFell]

Yeah..Enter The Fly was one bizarre episode. I'm sure there were other episodes that were more bizarre; I just need to go re-watch them again..

As for Krang and Shred coming together in cahoots..who really knows? It might have been just another loop hole that can be filled with any sort of theory from the TMNT fans.