Is pure human April falling out of favor?

[neatoman]

So we all know that the Mirage and Nickelodeon versions of April turned out to be, hmmm, not quite what they originally seemed. In addition, the 4kids April was briefly hinted at having the same origin as Mirage April. And while we don't know yet (and I may very well be dead wrong) it would not surprise me if April turned out to have more fantastical origins in the IDW comics and the new movies.

So, is regular human April falling out of favor?

[Refractive Reflections]

I wouldn't say falling out of favor, as it appears more so as writers reaching a conundrum on what to do with her character after she becomes close friends with the Turtles. It seems that they have to make her character have some supernatural or mutant abilities/background just to make her character interesting, which I don't usually agree with from the standpoint of her character development.

I don't mind if they do add these qualities to April in certain versions, but making it as a necessity of sorts for her character in subsequent versions, just so she can be more involved with the mutant Turtles is not the best writing. I enjoy having the dynamic of the Turtles and April being from two different worlds rather than her discovering that she was a mutant or "freak" just like them after all.

It does bring up an interesting point though, why is there pressure to make April have these supernatural/mutant abilities, but not Casey though in so many depictions? At least that would be something new... :ohwell:

[neatoman]

It does bring up an interesting point though, why is there pressure to make April have these supernatural/mutant abilities, but not Casey though in so many depictions? At least that would be something new... :ohwell:

Well the thing about Casey is that he is already really weird without a fantastical bent, he's a slightly deranged, stupid, hot headed, sports themed vigilante.

April without a fantastical bent is... A shopkeeper, a journalist or a high schooler...

[Cryomancer]

I wouldn't say falling out of favor, as it appears more so as writers reaching a conundrum on what to do with her character after she becomes close friends with the Turtles. It seems that they have to make her character have some supernatural or mutant abilities/background just to make her character interesting, which I don't usually agree with from the standpoint of her character development.

I don't mind if they do add these qualities to April in certain versions, but making it as a necessity of sorts for her character in subsequent versions, just so she can be more involved with the mutant Turtles is not the best writing. I enjoy having the dynamic of the Turtles and April being from two different worlds rather than her discovering that she was a mutant or "freak" just like them after all.

It does bring up an interesting point though, why is there pressure to make April have these supernatural/mutant abilities, but not Casey though in so many depictions? At least that would be something new... :ohwell:

Agreeing with this right here.

[DarkFell]

"Is pure human April falling out of favor?"

No - I don't really think so. Human Ms. O'Neil will always be forevermore part of TMNT lore. The Nickelodeon TMNT wanted to go a different way with their version of April as did the Mirage comics. '87 TMNT kept her totally human. The older TMNT movies had Ms. O'Neal totally human.

So, I really do not think human April O'Neil is totally out of the loop.

[plastroncafe]

I'm usually disappointed by Non-Zeppo April. It always rings of Pasted On Yay to me for some reason. Like, the writers couldn't handle just having a normal person to deal with. Made worse by the fact that she's one of the few female characters.

Leaves the story open to the argument that the writers just can't write female characters, so they have to give her a gimmick.

[Electric]

I'm usually disappointed by Non-Zeppo April. It always rings of Pasted On Yay to me for some reason. Like, the writers couldn't handle just having a normal person to deal with. Made worse by the fact that she's one of the few female characters.

Leaves the story open to the argument that the writers just can't write female characters, so they have to give her a gimmick.

i disagree with the "writers cant write female characters"

example: nicks karai

nick took a previous plot for karai, and developed it even more, and she has become one of the most if not the most complex character in the show. and she is was totally human, no special powers, abilities, no alien origin, just a trained girl. doesnt just serve as a love interest, has her own plots, can handle herself, had a rivalry with april, and with leo, developed from rebellious fun seeking teen to devoted daughter, showed extreme determination, and ended up making her own choice

she is very well written.

in regards to april, i dont mind giving her different involvments. im all for her being a part of the kraang invasion. it gives her some more purpose than just the turtles friend. having psychic powers though? not a fan

honestly my favorite background for april was the new movie. kinda spoilerish but:

her saving the turtles, developing their love of pizza, and having her father be the one to make them. it makes her again, more than just their friend, and is a cool way to tie all their pasts together

[DarkLightDragon]

Yeah, it honestly seems like for every iteration of Turtles where she's a normal human, there's always going to be one where writers feel April needs to be as special as the Turtles or Splinter if not more, whether it's having a unique ability or not being completely human in origin.

It's like her being the 'big sister/den mother' figure to Turtles or being their only link to the outside world weren't enough to establish her main role for a Turtles series and she's going to come off as too boring unless she doesn't have anything to make her just as unnatural as the Turtles, Splinter, or just any bizarre mutant that comes along. Because hey, "Who would wants to be the weak and occasional damsel in distress with no powers when you can be a mutant with powers and kick a lot of levels of a**!" or some crap like that.

[Shark_Blade]

Megan Fox is pure human...


I love her and OT April the best. Both are reporters. :tlove:

[Garfield]

I only know of 2 April that aren't Pure human and its Mirage April and Nick April. But it seems that much more than most versions of April are pure human. I don't know about IDW April.

I think you might be making Super April into a bigger deal than it really is. Most versions of April O'neil has her as just a regular woman from a pure genetic stand point.

[Shark_Blade]

2k3 April was cool... until they turned her into a ninja kill bill wannabe (2k3 and 2k7).

I read somewhere that Mirage April was a drawing (wtf?), and chose to ignore that existence and remember her lovely beginnings only as a lab assistsnt.

[ZariusTwo]

I read somewhere that Mirage April was a drawing (wtf?), and chose to ignore that existence and remember her lovely beginnings only as a lab assistsnt.

Once she found out she was a drawing she breifly went about fighting crime in the guise of Nobody until Casey put a stop to her, then she left to find herself

[Cipher]

April without a fantastical bent is... A shopkeeper, a journalist or a high schooler...
Or a programmer.

But chalk me up for any of those, because I feel a non-fantastic character is something TMNT needs.

Granted, selling a non-fantastic character also requires a more mature level of writing. I think giving her plot-integral super powers, bizarre origins, kick-butt ninja skills, etc., is often sort of a lazy solution.

Also agreed that Casey is usually spared this because he's a bizarre action character from square one. And look -- no version has ever really gotten him out of that role into a fully normal one, even when the story might call for it (Mirage and the 4Kids cartoon both try to imply a more normal, mature lifestyle on the horizon for him as they go on, but still have him back in the mask at the drop of a hat). I think it's more of a failure to integrate non-action characters than anything.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

No. They keep using the same april, human april.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Hey did everybody forget the April who drank a potion, turned into a 40-foot tall robot, fought her 40 foot tall robot evil ancestor Mae East, and saved the turtles? Seriously, I think that was awesome! :D

[Leo656]

Just to touch on one of the things people seem to be split on, I know some people like the idea of tying the Turtles origins back to April in various incarnations, but I don't like it. Not everything needs to be connected to everything else within the same fictional universe. Things happening by random chance is much more true to life. Having everything and everyone be connected is kind of hokey.

Tying big chunks of their origin back to April, reminds me of a Superman comic they did a while back where before Krypton exploded, Jor-El was sending probes or something all over the universe looking for a suitable planet to send Kal-El, and Jor-El's holo-projection or whatever "met" Johnathan Kent, and they talked about stuff, and it kind of made it seem like Kal-El's rocket didn't happen to land where it did by chance, it more or less implied the Kents found it by design, and... that's stupid. I mean, I get that it's fiction, but having all the characters of a story share some predetermined "destiny" is just so... "convenient".

More to the point of the thread, I much prefer April as a plain ol' human being who happens to get wrapped up in the crazy world of the TMNT completely by chance, just a regular person dealing with highly irregular circumstances. There's no need for her to be anything else, other than the fact that some writers can't write "regular" characters. Kinda like how back in the day writers couldn't resist giving Jimmy Olsen super-powers just because they didn't know what else to do with him... Superman's already in the book, who gives a sh*t if Jimmy turns into a giant turtle or a second-rate Plastic Man? I think what makes these kinds of secondary characters "special" is that, by contrast to the more fantastical main characters, they aren't "special" at all. They're just normal people, caught in a series of abnormal events, and that in and of itself should be interesting.

Nothing's worse than that "April was a magical drawing" BS though. From concept to execution, still the worst thing I've endured coming out of the TMNT franchise as a whole, and that's saying a lot.

[Konchadunga]

i disagree with the "writers cant write female characters"

example: nicks karai

nick took a previous plot for karai, and developed it even more, and she has become one of the most if not the most complex character in the show. and she is was totally human, no special powers, abilities, no alien origin, just a trained girl. doesnt just serve as a love interest, has her own plots, can handle herself, had a rivalry with april, and with leo, developed from rebellious fun seeking teen to devoted daughter, showed extreme determination, and ended up making her own choice

she is very well written.


A big part of the difference is that Karai comes with a skillset and motif that fits what they're trying to do. She, like the turtles, was raised almost from birth to be a ninja, and her life revolves around conflicts. She has interests of her own that further the plot.

Sadly, there isn't as much room for writing April into an interesting character. They can't make her another pure badass normal, because going the route of "trained from birth" just seems too far from what April traditionally is and too similar to what other characters are. They can't make her someone who has her own objectives to too great extent because then she might come off as against the turtles, whether in goal or just in competition for screentime. They can't make her nothing but a damsel in distress, or they'd get called backwards. Finally, they can't give April too much development that doesn't involve the Turtles/Foot Clan/Kraang, because then they'd need to model a lot of sets and characters that aren't the focus they're going for. It's not too late for them to fix things, but that does require revising the approach they're taking. This crass, toy-driven, MOTW formula is ruining character development.

In addition, the 4kids April was briefly hinted at having the same origin as Mirage April.

I can't say I remember that, ever. The inclusion of "The King" as an episode doesn't count, as that story was written in the Mirage series a long time before they decided to tie April's origin to it.

[Jester]

I think the key is Renet.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Guys,,,, I wan't joking.... YOU ALL know the ridculous scenario I described above actually happened. :( It shows ridiculous stuff happened to her in MANY TMNT UNIVERSES!

[neatoman]

I can't say I remember that, ever.

Of course you don't, it was only for a brief second and if you don't know how April found out in the comics then it's just going to go over your head.

Here's the quote, Return of Savanti Part 1:

Of course I know you April! Remember when I showed you... Oh wait, that hasn't happened yet... Oops, sorry, I always do that...

[Warhorse]

Nothing's worse than that "April was a magical drawing" BS though. From concept to execution, still the worst thing I've endured coming out of the TMNT franchise as a whole, and that's saying a lot.

Awe, so you don't like the idea that April could have been spawn out like we saw in the Ah- Ha music video, Take on me?

ZKspel3BEog

[Leo656]

:lol: The two are irrevocably linked in my mind, yes. :lol:

Although that song and video were neat. April's "secret origin" and time-travel roach humping... were not neat.

[Warhorse]

:lol: The two are irrevocably linked in my mind, yes. :lol:

Although that song and video were neat. April's "secret origin" and time-travel roach humping... were not neat.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wonder though, that music video came out in 84, was that the inspiration of April coming from a drawing? Or was it purely coincidental?

[Leo656]

Whether it was 1984 or 2000-whatever year it was, I'd say it's a safe bet Peter Laird was heavily "medicated" when he decided on April's secret origin. The adult brownies were definitely flowing like wine in Northampton that day, to be sure... aaaaaand I just created a horrible mixed-metaphor. :lol:

[Jester]

Wanna know how linked:
Steve Barron directed this video. :D

[Powder]

Aww, you beat me to it!

[Jester]

Great minds, sir.

[Coola Yagami]

The thing about normal people is that in an action cartoon, when **** gets real, they have to either stay the hell out of the way, or become victims. You can't have it both ways. Can't have April be normal.... and then take ninja training. It's one of the other. Ninjitsu isn't also the kind of thing any random person can just up and start practicing either. She's lucky she wasn't horribly out of shape when she met the Turtles.

.I mean, one solution if having April be some kind of martial arts fighter before she met the turtles, but many would complain about the change. And it would also feel like TMNT and April, and the show is supposed to be about the turtles.

April sorta exists to introduce us to the turtles and give them an excuse to spill their origin story. After that, it's hard to find what else to do with her character.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You mean besides having her act as either a sister/mother figure or a love interest? Or I dunno, maybe having her stress over the temptation to reveal them or not? Or maybe giving her a life OUTSIDE the TMNT that conflicts with her involvement with them? There's PLENTY that can be done with her. And I agree with Leo- the April-pic idea was just ridiculous.

And I think someone's been reading too much into Renet's comment. I don't think it referred to that at all. Probably had more to do with the SAINW future, or FF or something. Actually, my money would be on it being something FF-related.

[Luckyday]

I wonder if it be better in the long run to treat her as side character instead of a major character? Maybe it would be better for her to be just someone that met the turtles so that we have a way for us to feel introduce to them and then see her again like once per season.

[Coola Yagami]

The problem is, in an action show, the fighters are the main characters. The non-fighters are just supporting characters. Yes, she can be a mother figure or love interest or whatever, but unless she can go toe-to-toe with heavily trained Foot Ninja and mutant monsters, she will be stuck in a side-character role. Sure, we can focus on her life outside of the TMNT.... but who the hell buys a TMNT comic to read about that?

It's like asking Bulma to have a larger role than she already has. In the beginning of the Namek saga she had a big role in regards to making and flying the spaceship.... but once they arrived on Namek and the bad guys started coming in, her role got smaller and smaller. One Freeza decided to step up to the plate, Bulma was only in brief cameos every other episode just to remind us that she was still somewhere on the planet.

[Luckyday]

That still hasn't help the Nick version of April. Mutant and ninja-in-training, and still has less personality then Irma. She like Claire Oswald durning the Matt Smith's run.

[HotNunchuckFury]

I much prefer April being a plain old human. In a city full of mutants and aliens it's what makes her character unique! It also gives some grounding on reality (if that is possible!) to put the stories into context of being set in a predominantly human world despite the lack of human characters. Besides Casey, she is the only main character who is human and not a ninja or evil scientist, and I think that should be valued and utilised more as far as the story is concerned.

Personally I don't like seeing April suddenly acquiring a great level of skill in martial arts, it belittles the years of hard work and training the turtles have endured. And the whole connection with Kraang in Nick annoys me (2k12 April annoys me in general for lots of reasons to be honest). And I don't think that every character in a show/comic/film that is predominantly action-packed needs to be a competent fighter. As a female myself I have no problem with April being the weakest link physically and needing rescuing when things get crazy. Call it damsel in distress if you want but it just seems more realistic to me. As a girl growing up in the 80s within a happy but very traditional household, I was inspired by April as a confidently single, independent, ambitious and career driven young woman. She didn't have ninja skills or supernatural powers, but she certainly didn't come across as boring or weak to me.

Mainly, I always viewed April as the turtle's link to the world above the sewers and the female family member they never had. How is that not enough in itself?

[Refractive Reflections]

I much prefer April being a plain old human. In a city full of mutants and aliens it's what makes her character unique! It also gives some grounding on reality (if that is possible!) to put the stories into context of being set in a predominantly human world despite the lack of human characters. Besides Casey, she is the only main character who is human and not a ninja or evil scientist, and I think that should be valued and utilised more as far as the story is concerned.

Personally I don't like seeing April suddenly acquiring a great level of skill in martial arts, it belittles the years of hard work and training the turtles have endured. And the whole connection with Kraang in Nick annoys me (2k12 April annoys me in general for lots of reasons to be honest). And I don't think that every character in a show/comic/film that is predominantly action-packed needs to be a competent fighter. As a female myself I have no problem with April being the weakest link physically and needing rescuing when things get crazy. Call it damsel in distress if you want but it just seems more realistic to me. As a girl growing up in the 80s within a happy but very traditional household, I was inspired by April as a confidently single, independent, ambitious and career driven young woman. She didn't have ninja skills or supernatural powers, but she certainly didn't come across as boring or weak to me.

Mainly, I always viewed April as the turtle's link to the world above the sewers and the female family member they never had. How is that not enough in itself?

I guess apparently with this increasingly attention-deficit television audience, if she (or any character) isn't kicking someone's butt in a fight, they aren't considered interesting enough. Especially for an action/adventure cartoon.

I don't like when they make April a highly-proficient ninja in a short amount of time either, where her skills come close to the Turtles, for the same reasons you pointed out earlier. It belittles the training and hard work the Turtles have put into training over many years.

That still hasn't help the Nick version of April. Mutant and ninja-in-training, and still has less personality then Irma. She like Claire Oswald durning the Matt Smith's run.
The biggest problem is that a lot of these changes feel forced rather than organic just to include April on the team, plus we don't get to know her character by herself without all of the gimmicks of ninja fighting and being a mutant, which makes April's character hollow and dull. We simply don't know who she is behind all those gimmicks compared to say... Nick Karai, who has layers to her character outside of her fighting skills with the conflicted feelings she has between Splinter and Shredder.

I remember in the beginning how the production team told us that having a teenage April was going to add a new dynamic to the Nick series, but the most it's ever done, has only been to establish crushes and the love triangle. In my opinion, it's a fairly weak contribution since there could have been far more material in showing how teenagers could bond, without using the cliche device of teenage romance.

[Warhorse]

I guess apparently with this increasingly attention-deficit television audience, if she (or any character) isn't kicking someone's butt in a fight, they aren't considered interesting enough. Especially for an action/adventure cartoon.

I don't like when they make April a highly-proficient ninja in a short amount of time either, where her skills come close to the Turtles, for the same reasons you pointed out earlier. It belittles the training and hard work the Turtles have put into training over many years.


The biggest problem is that a lot of these changes feel forced rather than organic just to include April on the team, plus we don't get to know her character by herself without all of the gimmicks of ninja fighting and being a mutant, which makes April's character hollow and dull. We simply don't know who she is behind all those gimmicks compared to say... Nick Karai, who has layers to her character outside of her fighting skills with the conflicted feelings she has between Splinter and Shredder.

I remember in the beginning how the production team told us that having a teenage April was going to add a new dynamic to the Nick series, but the most it's ever done, has only been to establish crushes and the love triangle. In my opinion, it's a fairly weak contribution since there could have been far more material in showing how teenagers could bond, without using the cliche device of teenage romance.

This is why they need to have her interact with anyone but Donnie and Casey for an entire episode. I think anything that has her teamed up with either Leo, Mikey or Raph, could be used to bring out more of her character. The one time Leo stopped by her house to ask her questions about relationships, was adorable! We need more of that, and less of the tug a war April rope. Maybe she can be the one to start to help Leo heal mentally, maybe he can take her to the woods and teach her how to meditate, and in turn, we can learn more about her. Maybe she and Mikey go for a run, and come across an injured animal, and while caring for it, brings out some more character development. Maybe April wants to learn how to drive a stick shift, but she don't want either Donnie or Casey to teach her because she knows they'd be fighting the whole time, so she asks Raph to teach her, and in turn, gets some good character development time.

[Cryomancer]

2k3 April managed to stay helpful without being a heavy hitter in battle. 2007 movie april was at least slightly more believable as a ninja in training since there was some kind of time skip, other than being apparently equal to Karai. Both of those and Mirage had her doing her own thing semi often, usually a job or business. The 2007 business would actually work very good as a cover/excuse to have more "international" TMNT stories, I think. 2k3 April handled a lot of what would normally be "Donatello work", freeing him up to do more "battle thinking" and whatnot. April can also work well as a "well we need to do something in the human world for this mission" sort of thing, like that OT ep where they send Casey into the company to figure out what's happening. The new show talked about April organizing some kind of website and human information network like, maybe twice?, and hasn't really done anything with that. That seems like a perfectly viable storyline and character arc to me, dunno.