The Turtle's (who is eldest/youngest)

[Warhorse]

I was just reading something off of http://tmnt2012series.wikia.com/wiki/TMNT_Wiki

And it has listed in order of eldest Turtle to youngest Turtle.

Leonardo
Raphael
Donatello
Michelangelo.

How accurate is this site, and do you agree with it?

It also mentions that the crack on Raphael's plastron and shell (which looks like something large fell on him, and cut him pretty deep, ) and they say it was caused pre mutation, since he seemed to have it when Splinter was telling the story. I was hoping Raph got it later on in life, and it would be the reason why he is the way he is, but then again, this site might be a bunch of crap.

[victory_angel]

I was just reading something off of http://tmnt2012series.wikia.com/wiki/TMNT_Wiki

And it has listed in order of eldest Turtle to youngest Turtle.

Leonardo
Raphael
Donatello
Michelangelo.

How accurate is this site, and do you agree with it?

It also mentions that the crack on Raphael's plastron and shell (which looks like something large fell on him, and cut him pretty deep, ) and they say it was caused pre mutation, since he seemed to have it when Splinter was telling the story. I was hoping Raph got it later on in life, and it would be the reason why he is the way he is, but then again, this site might be a bunch of crap.

The age rank is accurate, at least for this incarnation of the series. In the Tales of the Turtle Lair comic which can be found on the Nick site, Splinter introduces his sons as Leo the eldest, Raph the Second eldest, Donnie the third eldest, and Mikey the youngest.

As for the crack, we haven't learned anything about it. Odds are the crack was just placed there on the image of the Turtles as small children as a means of pointing out who was who. They are supposedly going to talk about about the crack and how it relates to Raph's anger some time in the next season.

[Warhorse]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4ERqH1XaxOAk8fsDRTH0uTxYZatxTI LV10YyI6Cnq5sfxYFRsqQ

And I've noticed, it's not just the crack across the plastron, but it also lines up to the crack on his shell as well, so something big must have fallen on him sometime in the past. I'm surprised he don't have a scar along his shoulder. But curious indeed on how he got that. I'm wondering if it was inflicted on him by an opponent, or did he get it while trying to save someone? (Like holding up something heavy so another being could get out of the way?)

[Luckyday]

But since they all seem to be the same age and adopted; they have no way of knowing which is the oldest.

I wonder if there was a social experiment which quadruplets were adopted as babies to test to see if the birth order personalities were either nurture or nature.:???:

[IndigoErth]

Leo and Mikey are the easy ones... Raph and Donnie are more debatable though I guess, depending which version, though it stands to reason that Raph being second oldest makes sense given the relationship between him and Leo.

Speaking as an oldest, the sibling right behind you isn't always an easy one to deal with that's for sure. lol Growing up my sister and I were somewhat a Leo/Raph kind of dynamic... Luckily she grew up to be a bit more of a Mikey.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4ERqH1XaxOAk8fsDRTH0uTxYZatxTI LV10YyI6Cnq5sfxYFRsqQ
Cheeky little bugger... lol Such a 'bull in a china shop,' I wouldn't be too surprised if he got that damage simply due to his "leap first, look later" persona. :)

[Warhorse]

But since they all seem to be the same age and adopted; they have no way of knowing which is the oldest.

I wonder if there was a social experiment which quadruplets were adopted as babies to test to see if the birth order personalities were either nurture or nature.:???:

It's possible the Turtle's themselves remember which one was hatched first and the one hatched last and in between. Maybe when Yoshi got them from the pet shop, he was told which one was oldest to youngest, and remembered. Has there been a mention that they are indeed brothers? I swore I saw an episode where Donnie claimed he wasn't 100% sure what kind of breed they were period, has he confirmed that they are indeed biological brothers?

[Refractive Reflections]

This thread could help add to the discussion:
Who's older? Donatello or Raphael? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=40334)

[Warhorse]

This thread could help add to the discussion:
Who's older? Donatello or Raphael? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=40334)

I'm talking about the 2012 incarnation, not in general. Hence why I stuck it in the 2012 thread.

[Mellie]

Raph seems young and immature in the Nick show. I would put him below Donnie.

edit: Well, thinking about it I could see Raph being the second oldest brother. He does treat Mikey and Donnie different than he treats Leo (slapping them, certain insults, etc).. Would he smack his older brother? It's hard to say. Plus of course his whole rivalry with Leo.
When it comes to emotions and maturity I think he's below Donnie, but possibly older than him in age.



Side note, I enjoy their height differences and agree with them.

[BabyTurtles]

Raph will always be second oldest to me

I like to think of him being one step behind Leo even in age which would make sense with his rivalry and all

also it feels like both Raph and Leo are in charge with keeping Mikey and Don safe.

[Warhorse]

Raph will always be second oldest to me

I like to think of him being one step behind Leo even in age which would make sense with his rivalry and all

also it feels like both Raph and Leo are in charge with keeping Mikey and Don safe.

I was getting that feeling too, right from the beginning. When they first go to the top side, Leonardo was the one over excited about being topside, claiming how there might be an adventure around every corner, so while he was kind of scoping the place out, Raphael seemed to have stayed back to keep an eye on Donny and Mikey. I took the scene where Donny was excited about some new micro-processor, and Raph was being a bit sarcastic about it as cover that Raph was making sure he was safe, and the same with Mikey, when he was all amazed about the eye light, which Raph finally had to pull him away to keep him with the rest of the group. Stuff like this is usually what the elder brother would do. Usually. Not always, but usually.

At the same time, in the Leatherhead episode, despite Raph's relationship with Leo and Donny sometimes at odds with eachother, I thought it was cute when Leo and Donny freaked the hell out when they thought their pain in the ass brother just lost his head. It shows, as much grief they give eachother, they would be horrified if something bad happened to one of them. It's going to be interesting to see how the Leo one shot pans out. Who is going to take it the worst?

[evan2000]

When they were sparring 2-on-2 in Mousers Attack, it felt like they were arranged from the eldest to youngest in these shots:

http://i.imgur.com/KuweBSq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nHLhXY4.jpg

Also Leo commented that "isn't that a little unfair?" probably referring to the two younger brothers having to face the two older brothers being unfair, at least it felt that way to me.

[Warhorse]

That "a little unfair" comment, well, wasn't there an episode where both Leo and Raph agreed that they were the A team when it came to fighting and Donnie and Mikey were the B team, so maybe he and Raph were being cocky.

[Hannurdock]

I always thought it was Leo, Raph, Donny and Mikey.

[evan2000]

That "a little unfair" comment, well, wasn't there an episode where both Leo and Raph agreed that they were the A team when it came to fighting and Donnie and Mikey were the B team, so maybe he and Raph were being cocky.
Yep, that was in the same episode, ie. Mousers Attack!

[arkangel]

After Raph was born, Donnie and Mikey just fell out together.

[Hannurdock]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxUC0I3IFVbdCvO6vLdnRSsE9bjtJW2 1TgePHiMTFQLRIwquJb

Ask mum.

[Discogod]

Warhorse, learn to use a f*ckin' apostrophe properly, will ya? There's a good lad.

[jenna]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4ERqH1XaxOAk8fsDRTH0uTxYZatxTI LV10YyI6Cnq5sfxYFRsqQ

And I've noticed, it's not just the crack across the plastron, but it also lines up to the crack on his shell as well, so something big must have fallen on him sometime in the past. I'm surprised he don't have a scar along his shoulder. But curious indeed on how he got that. I'm wondering if it was inflicted on him by an opponent, or did he get it while trying to save someone? (Like holding up something heavy so another being could get out of the way?)

Every time I look at that crack I picture a very young, unpracticed Leo in a sparring session with Raph, a katana, and a lucky escape. I'd like to know the truth - if for no other reason than to get away from that image!

As for age... Don feels older to me. Not sure how accurate these sources can be. The Nick description of Raph on the website and toy said he was the biggest of his brothers. Wrong. He is broader, but height-wise compared to Leo and Don he is very little.

[victory_angel]

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[Luckyday]

I know it's only my imagination but from the show, I 've always like to imagine from the time they were very little kids, Raphael always acted like the eldest but after the moment when Leonardo became the leader he developed this insecure complex of having his younger brother boss him around.

[Rooish]

I wonder why this is such an obsession for fans now? I feel like no one really cared about age order back in the old days of Mirage/OT/1990 movie. Anyway in this series according to the online material it's Leo, Raph, Don and then Mike. In the IDW comics it's Leo, Don, Raph then Mike. Except since they are freaking turtles from the same clutch they should probably have been born within hours of each other!

[Warhorse]

Every time I look at that crack I picture a very young, unpracticed Leo in a sparring session with Raph, a katana, and a lucky escape. I'd like to know the truth - if for no other reason than to get away from that image!

As for age... Don feels older to me. Not sure how accurate these sources can be. The Nick description of Raph on the website and toy said he was the biggest of his brothers. Wrong. He is broader, but height-wise compared to Leo and Don he is very little.

Biggest does not mean tallest. It means mass. Raphael may not be as tall as Leo or Donny, but he probably has more muscle and is more than likely heaviest of all of the Turtles because of that muscle. When watching The Fast and The Furious, when you see Paul Walker and Vin Diesel and someone comments on the "bigger guy" despite Paul Walker's (RIP) 6'2" towering over Diesel's 5'10", Vin Diesel is still the bigger guy.

I wonder why this is such an obsession for fans now? I feel like no one really cared about age order back in the old days of Mirage/OT/1990 movie. Anyway in this series according to the online material it's Leo, Raph, Don and then Mike. In the IDW comics it's Leo, Don, Raph then Mike. Except since they are freaking turtles from the same clutch they should probably have been born within hours of each other!

I don't know about an obsession, but why can't people be allowed to speculate on something like this? Is it hurting you in anyway? Anyways, ask a twin or triplets or more, despite being born within an hour of eachother, still, the one that was out first is still the oldest.

[Slade]

I wonder why this is such an obsession for fans now? I feel like no one really cared about age order back in the old days of Mirage/OT/1990 movie. Anyway in this series according to the online material it's Leo, Raph, Don and then Mike. In the IDW comics it's Leo, Don, Raph then Mike. Except since they are freaking turtles from the same clutch they should probably have been born within hours of each other!

Hmm...never read that.

[Seedkiller]

According to the original figure cards, Leo is the oldest, Mikey is next in line, and Don and Raph are the youngest.

[Rooish]

I don't know about an obsession, but why can't people be allowed to speculate on something like this? Is it hurting you in anyway? Anyways, ask a twin or triplets or more, despite being born within an hour of eachother, still, the one that was out first is still the oldest.

It's not hurting me, but I think that establishing an age order tends to force the characters into roles that become stereotypical. For example, now that Raph has been established as second oldest, he is more able to bully and intimidate Donny and Mikey. Mikey becoming the youngest means that he is always the distracted goofy one. I think it's better when they are all the same age because then there is more room for them to have a greater range of mature and immature reactions and it allows for more flexibility in the team hierarchy.

[Warhorse]

It's not hurting me, but I think that establishing an age order tends to force the characters into roles that become stereotypical. For example, now that Raph has been established as second oldest, he is more able to bully and intimidate Donny and Mikey. Mikey becoming the youngest means that he is always the distracted goofy one. I think it's better when they are all the same age because then there is more room for them to have a greater range of mature and immature reactions and it allows for more flexibility in the team hierarchy.

Well, no matter what, they're still not the same exact age. But heck, if it was up to me, to really change things around, I would have had it Raph, Donnie, Mikey and then Leo, and due to Leo being the "runt" of the litter, it's why he worked so hard and was diligent in his studies to be the very best, and now, he went from runt of the litter to leader of the pack!

[Luckyday]

It be great to break the status que and change things up a bit. It would've given them some added dimension to their personalities. I actually really like the idea of Raph either being the youngest or the oldest.

[MiBs]

I like that Leo is older than Raph - gives more meaning to the tensions between them

[Warhorse]

I like that Leo is older than Raph - gives more meaning to the tensions between them

How? Leo being the "first born" is automatically going to be the golden child in Splinter's mind, while Raphael will always be in his shadow, since Splinter cannot seem to accept Raphael for who he is?

[IndigoErth]

Well, I imagine if Leo's a 'golden child' to Splinter to any extent it would be in student terms. What teacher does not appreciate a student with a deep dedication to what they are being taught.

After all, in terms of becoming his sons, they were all 'born' into Splinter's life at the same time.

[Warhorse]

Well, I imagine if Leo's a 'golden child' to Splinter to any extent it would be in student terms. What teacher does not appreciate a student with a deep dedication to what they are being taught.

After all, in terms of becoming his sons, they were all 'born' into Splinter's life at the same time.

Well, in this version, I just feel Splinter is not even trying to reach out to Raphael to see what his anger issues are about. All he does is whack Raph with his stick and yells at him to get control of his temper. Splinter comes across as having this super phylosophical and psychological understandings of most things, especially how enemies think, but he can't seem to get an understanding or figure out how to reach out to his own son. It's weird. Maybe the two need to go out on a father and son bonding camping trip one weekend, to work their sh!t out.

But, if dreams or nightmares mean anything in this show, we already seen Splinter's worst nightmare. Shredder taking down his boys. In that nightmare, the first taken was Mikey, then Donnie, Raph got hit the hardest, and then Leo, and when it looks like Shredder is going to cut Leo, Splinter finally awakens. I wonder if the rank in which each of the Turtles went is how Splinter views them in favoritism? Or was it just a random dream.

[ssjup81]

Probably just done to start with the youngest up to the oldest.

That aside, imo, Splinter isn't like that with only Raph. He smacks all of them around. Personally, this Splinter doesn't seem as patient in some regards compared to previous incarnations and, sometimes, comes across as taking his frustrations out on the boys...but I'm willing to concede this if I'm just misinterpreting it.

[Warhorse]

Probably just done to start with the youngest up to the oldest.

That aside, imo, Splinter isn't like that with only Raph. He smacks all of them around. Personally, this Splinter doesn't seem as patient in some regards compared to previous incarnations and, sometimes, comes across as taking his frustrations out on the boys...but I'm willing to concede this if I'm just misinterpreting it.

Yeah, but the thing is, out of all of the Turtles, Raphael is the most dangerous and deadliest, so you would think Splinter would have tried other means to control that temper before it erupts into something that has a point of no return, and smacking Raphael around is not the answer.

And another thing, I have seen Splinter constantly reward Leo specifically for a job well done. Either it be a mission, sparring matches, or one on one. He's also praised compliments to April on her accomplishments in her training, Mikey that while his brain is turned off he is still a wicked fighter, and has praised Donnie on inventions such as MetalHead. Despite Raph actually being correct in some arguments, winning in sparring matches, being there for the brothers, I have yet to see Splinter say one compliment to him. Not one. If he has, please point me to that episode, but so far, I just see Splinter never sticking up for him and always bringing Raph down, even when Raph has won a sparring match or he was right about an arguement. Now granted, this might be done on purpose by the writers, because they might be using this to touch on something later on as the show progresses.

[Luckyday]

Not to get too off topic but if we were to get inside their heads for a minute, do you think they would really even care who eldest/youngest? All of that stuff doesn't matter with siblings who have only a year between and matters even less when your a twin or in their case a quadruplet. I mean seriously how ridiculous would it be to hold seniority over someone who is 2 hours younger then you?

[Mellie]

I mean seriously how ridiculous would it be to hold seniority over someone who is 2 hours younger then you?

I think it's human (turtle?) nature. Whenever I see twins they're always letting me know who the "older" one is.


I like the idea that Raph is the second youngest.

[Luckyday]

I think it's human (turtle?) nature. Whenever I see twins they're always letting me know who the "older" one is.


I like the idea that Raph is the second youngest.

That fact may had importance in the past when they were little children but I can't imagine adults acting that way. With Leo especially in this version who was elected to be leader and wants to be leader verse someone has been leader for a long time and has air of un question authority like the one from the 2k3 series.

[Warhorse]

Not to get too off topic but if we were to get inside their heads for a minute, do you think they would really even care who eldest/youngest? All of that stuff doesn't matter with siblings who have only a year between and matters even less when your a twin or in their case a quadruplet. I mean seriously how ridiculous would it be to hold seniority over someone who is 2 hours younger then you?

I don't know where you grew up, but while I am an only child, I have been completely surrounded by siblings, and trust me, age is a factor in many arguements between them. Even for twins. It's usually where, the oldest gets the nice stuff, and the younger ones would get the hand me downs. In the case where there are 3 or more kids, the old one is still the first born, the youngest is the baby of the family, and the middle kid will suffer the middle child sydrome. Really, if age in a pack of siblings wasn't an issue, why would scholars actually come up with the "middle child syndrome" to begin with? It's not ridiculous, it's just a fact of life.

That fact may had importance in the past when they were little children but I can't imagine adults acting that way. With Leo especially in this version who was elected to be leader and wants to be leader verse someone has been leader for a long time and has air of un question authority like the one from the 2k3 series.

It will still carries on later in the adult life. Especially when argueing who has the right to take care of the parent figure when they are at that stage where they can't take care of themselves. Even in this version, Splinter will reveal his secrets to Leo, but not the others. I just don't think that's fair to the other Turtles, especially Donnie, who would have the mentality to understand what Splinter is going through. In fact, say Splinter knows he's about to pass away, right now, I can see him telling only Leo, and leaving everything, possessions, knowledge, whatnot to Leo and letting him decide what to do with it. Splinter has formed such a strong bond with Leo, that he is kind of pushing his other sons away. I'm sure he doesn't mean to, but it's how I see it.

[victory_angel]

But, if dreams or nightmares mean anything in this show, we already seen Splinter's worst nightmare. Shredder taking down his boys. In that nightmare, the first taken was Mikey, then Donnie, Raph got hit the hardest, and then Leo, and when it looks like Shredder is going to cut Leo, Splinter finally awakens. I wonder if the rank in which each of the Turtles went is how Splinter views them in favoritism? Or was it just a random dream.

I don't know if that had to do with favoritism. But often enemies would go after the most innocent or weakest members first to break the team.

As we noticed. Mikey is dragged away because he can be viewed as one of the weaker members of the team, at least focus wise he is a weaker member. And he is the most innocent member of the team.

Donnie was attacked when he went to go help Mikey, even though there wasn't anything he could actually do. I guess since Mikey is his only younger brother that does qualify a bit of a protective streak for the little guy. However when he is kicked into the mist we can still see him so I guess that is meant to indicate that he was still alive, but the injuries were serious enough to be fatal without immediate attention if not mortal.

Raph it looked like he was getting several of his pressure points hit. As we have seen there are pressure points that can immobilize, cause muscles to relax, or lock up. But there are also fatal pressure points as well so he isn't so much killed as much as his body is rendered useless and then mercilessly slaughtered.

[Warhorse]

I don't know if that had to do with favoritism. But often enemies would go after the most innocent or weakest members first to break the team.

As we noticed. Mikey is dragged away because he can be viewed as one of the weaker members of the team, at least focus wise he is a weaker member. And he is the most innocent member of the team.

Donnie was attacked when he went to go help Mikey, even though there wasn't anything he could actually do. I guess since Mikey is his only younger brother that does qualify a bit of a protective streak for the little guy. However when he is kicked into the mist we can still see him so I guess that is meant to indicate that he was still alive, but the injuries were serious enough to be fatal without immediate attention if not mortal.

Raph it looked like he was getting several of his pressure points hit. As we have seen there are pressure points that can immobilize, cause muscles to relax, or lock up. But there are also fatal pressure points as well so he isn't so much killed as much as his body is rendered useless and then mercilessly slaughtered.
Heh? It's a dream, I think the overall effect of it is it's impact on Splinter, and not Shredder's POV. Either way, Raphael wasn't the one mercilessly slaughtered, he was just thrown into oblivion. Now Leo, he looked like he was the one that was going to be dealt the lethal killing stike, and this is what shook Splinter awake from his nightmare.

[IndigoErth]

Splinter comes across as having this super phylosophical and psychological understandings of most things, especially how enemies think, but he can't seem to get an understanding or figure out how to reach out to his own son.

That's a really good point... Collectively the pair could certainly use some good character development in their relationship.


As to the dream who knows... Maybe there was an order, or just random. Or maybe it comes down to the nature usually attributed to Leo that he may want to ensure that his brothers are out of a situation first (they get hit but I think they just kind of vanished from the dream at that point?), leaving himself the last one out and risking his life for it.

Splinter already told him/them that one time that they might have had to do whatever it took, no matter what had to be scarified, or who. Maybe there is some relation in that, fear of it having to come true.

[MiBs]

How? Leo being the "first born" is automatically going to be the golden child in Splinter's mind, while Raphael will always be in his shadow, since Splinter cannot seem to accept Raphael for who he is?

first of all, I don't think that Splinter sees Leonardo and Raphael the way you descripe it. And I wasn't referring to Splinters view on them anyway.

And well, the oldest son or the "first born" is traditionally the one to take over the family business or the next head of family and te family protector. To me it makes totally sense that Leo is the leader because he's the first born (or the other way around in this case).

[kolaida]

In Splinter's defense, we haven't seen him interact a lot one on one with Raph or Mikey (I think he probably doesn't get Mikey more than he doesn't get Raphael). I could see how being the eldest to be the leader fits if they weren't the same age. However, birth order does usually play into a person's life in some form. I think it's safe to say Leo is always portrayed as eldest and Mikey youngest. I prefer Donnie being second eldest because it fits to me. I'm the oldest of four, more years in between us, but we all grew up together. My traits are similar to Leo's, my brother (second) are similar to Donnie's (staying in room doing own thing, socially awkward), my sister (third) is similar to Raph right down to running away more than once, exploding at parents, and wanting to do her own thing, my other sister is most laid back, outgoing, was popular in high school without effort. She is the baby so she did get a lot of attention paid to her and there were more fights with her and the other sister since they were closest in age. The one sister (third) did always cause me problems, wouldn't listen often, and would refer to herself as the "black sheep" despite our efforts (mine especially) to make her feel included. I just always thought it was middle child third child syndrome. It was pretty annoying. Don't live together now and I miss her (all of my sibs). Other people probably have different experiences, and I get why some think of Raph as second eldest, I just think he makes the perfect third child, lol!

[Luckyday]

Damn your family sounds just like mine to a T.:teek:

[kolaida]

Damn your family sounds just like mine to a T.:teek:
Wow, that's crazy! So long as you're not one of my siblings, lol!! At least we know we're not alone. Sometimes I miss that chaos I used to live in, but I'm pretty happy with life now.