Why are the turtles so important to us? How have they managed to turn our heads?

[Davetello]

I'm heading out to play soccer soon, but I thought I might post this topic first. Hopefully it will generate some thoughtful discussion for me to read when I return in a few hours.

I must say that I think about this a lot and I still can't really come up with a satisfactory answer. It's obviously a combination of things - a plexus of different factors which come together to create this unique and wonderful franchise.

Most of us became hooked on the FW series, but it's more than that. There's clearly something of more substance there otherwise we'd have forgotten about the turtles years ago. There's depth to the turtles - it's not a shallow property. But why do we care so much?

I can't really say why the turtles matters so much to me. The turtles and the supporting characters (but primarily the guys themselves) have simply made an everlasting impression on me. I care about them almost as if they are real and not fictional - in brief moments I will remember that they don't really exist, that they have never existed and - most importantly - that they could never exist, and I find myself disappointed. Disappointed that I will never know them. This seems like a very strange way of thinking and I'm thinking that I might be judged for saying so - even here amongst people who 'get' the turtles like I do. But it's how I feel... there's no point sugar-coating it.

The FW series, Mirage, 4kids, the original film, TMNT, the games, hopefully Archie in future etc. I care about it all and would never want to be without it. I enjoy other properties e.g. Batman, Breaking Bad, Star Wars. I know that - objectively speaking - those properties have produced a higher quality of storytelling than the turtles - but they just don't get to me in the same way.

I imagine this is what it's like to fall in love. I don't think I've ever been in love as I'm quite emotionally empty and find it hard to feel for people in that way. But I would guess that it's just something which you 'feel' and don't really understand on any rational level - it isn't sensible, it's just there. It's a passionate caring for something and it has no rhyme or reason to it. You know that there's better out there in an objective manner - but you just don't care about objectivity in this instance.

Apologies if I've come across as a drooling sycophant in creating this thread. I just thought it might be interesting to debate why the turtles turn our heads and affect us on an emotional and psychological level. Suffice it to say I could go on, but I've offered enough of a platform now. I've set the stage, and now it is yours.

[Prowler]

Why do I like the TMNT and why are they my favorite franchise after all these years? I really don't know. If I dislike or don't care about something I can easily tell you the reasons, but when it comes to stuff I care or like about... I find it a lot damn harder to explain.

I can tell you that my favorite things about the franchise include the humor, the chemistry between the characters, the Japanese mythology behind it, the sci-fi, etc. Also, I like how the Turtles are outcasts and trouble comes to them instead of them going right into it(well, sometimes they do).

But the main reason is probably because it was the first "big" franchise that held my interest when I was a kid. If it had been Batman or Dragonball, I'd most likely be as big of a fan of one of those as I am of the Turtles as well.

[Mzx10484]

The reason lies in my childhood that partly continues until today.

[CyberCubed]

Because it was so different than everything else. It's an action cartoon/comic but without the Turtles being traditional superheroes like Batman or Spiderman.

It's the different ways you can use them. Turtles can be serious, silly, inbetween. The stories can be realistic dealing with ninja's or street gangs, or sci-fi with aliens, mutants and monsters.

Also the 4 Turtles personalties are based on popular stereotypes. There's always the leader/responsible one, the short tempered one, the smart and scientific one, and the class clown or party attitude one. It's based on real life.

[Refractive Reflections]

Here's one reason I mentioned earlier why TMNT stands out compared to other superheroes:

One aspect I think should be mentioned, but I don't think I've read so far, is that I appreciate how the Turtles' fighting skills require training and practice.

To be honest, I never found other superheroes resonate with me (not a comic book fan) and therefore never cared about them because most of their superpowers were just "dumped" or bestowed on them without requiring any type of effort or perseverance (i.e. Superman, Spiderman, etc.) or they had all the overt, plentiful resources to do so much crime-fighting (i.e. Batman's wealth). I value how these Turtles come from such humble backgrounds and (more importantly) actually train themselves up from their modest possessions/circumstances to do extraordinary things rather than easily acquiring their "powers" and then somehow be able to save the world in an instant. For me, the Turtles' struggle and perseverance parallels social, grassroots movements where there's a greater respect for those who led change with modest resources rather than an individual with political power and/or wealth who "had it all" and could easily change things.

It's far more relatable and endearing for the audience to see humble people, with the same modest environment, achieve something great and momentous through hard work rather than reading a person having some over-the-top, extreme power to accomplish anything. I mean how many people can relate to having an over-the-top skill or talent so quickly without any form of training or practice?

Yes, the Turtles have been depicted having a significant strength edge above humans and innate, martial arts talent, but they had to be developed, and those advantages are miniscule in comparison to the powers of Superman, Spiderman, and many other superheroes. (Therefore with all that being said, one could see why these 2014 Turtles having these apparent "Hulkish" strength capabilities, is one of my many reasons as to why I look unfavorably upon how this film is developing. ...But that's a whole other can-of-worms argument. :lol:)

[Ville Leskinen]

For me personally, it's about trying to fill my needs of connection (to my childhood), belonging (I was always the outsider as a kid and got bullied a lot as a teen but feel "at home" amongst other fans) and comfort (being a child is the happiest time of your life, even if you get picked on).

And then there's the excitement of finding something new in the stuff you already love (fan art, the hope for a good new movie :lol:) that makes you forget the starving children and world pollution.

[IndigoErth]

I dunno, it's a mix of things I suppose. Not quite human and yet a lot of about them is probably a lot more relateable then many other fictional hero type characters. Heroes, but minus the 'super,' they have to work for what they want in life just like we do.
I care about them almost as if they are real and not fictional - in brief moments I will remember that they don't really exist, that they have never existed and - most importantly - that they could never exist, and I find myself disappointed. Disappointed that I will never know them. This seems like a very strange way of thinking and I'm thinking that I might be judged for saying so - even here amongst people who 'get' the turtles like I do.
Nah, no judgement here, completely understand the occasional feeling of disappointment.

For older, longtime fans these guys are like old friends I guess. And esp if someone has a fave they really identify with a lot, it's easy to feel (or at least I do) that if they stepped into the real world you and that particular character could probably be good friends. And a little disappointing when that would-be buddy can't ever be real... (Though I think often I feel more bad for them over that fact than I do myself. Such awesome people deserve to exist darn it. lol Esp when the real world is stuck with so many crappy humans.) But perhaps unlike a lot of other fictional heroes, if we can't have them then at least in some ways we can aspire to be a little more like them at times. (And not necessarily by taking martial arts and kicking peoples asses. lol)

I mean we can't really relate to characters who have super powers and whatnot all that much - if they're human, or appear to be, there's that, but beyond that...what. The Turtles though... they work hard for their skills, they too like many of us have siblings they fuss and fight with, love and protect. They have a teacher/parent who is protective over them, maybe too much so, and they get in trouble him. They try to live life the best they can and deal with crap that comes along, not sure about where they really fit in the world...like most real people. There is so much about these guys that people can connect with that the fact that they're not quite human doesn't even end up mattering all that much, they're just funny looking people is all. ;)

Additionally I think maybe some part of it could come down to us also being a rather lonely species. We surround ourselves with pets, esp those species who seem to want to be with humans, and we love that some wild animals like dolphins actually show interest in us. But they'll never understand us. All we really have is our own kind. Like the Turtles, we're weird in this world. There may be a lot of us, but we're weird. We're basically mutated talking monkeys and we have no one else outside of our own kind that understands us. Maybe that's why we seem to love creating movies and shows with talking animals. And elevate some like the Turtles to being people, not simply talking animals... other beings we could interact with and who'd actually 'get us,' and for the most part live like us, what's not to love.

[Gorilla Grodd]

It grabbed my attention and held it at such an early age because it is just such a unique and vibrant world with just so much variety in the cast of characters and the types of stories you can tell with them. You can put them in pretty much any setting and it still plays to their strengths. You can't necessarily say that with a lot of other characters.

Martial arts action, ninjas, aliens, freaky monstrosities, scifi dimension hopping, low tech, high tech, silly humor, deep introspective stories, mindless popcorn movie stories, friendship, family bonding, sibling rivalry, revenge. Just anything I kind of have a taste for at any given moment there is a TMNT story that hits that mark.

The reason I'm so attached to them I think is largely just due to how long I've been into these stories and characters. I think a lot of it has to do with the amount of time invested. There are lots of movies that I've seen where I really enjoy the characters, but when they die or sequels are never made it doesn't really bother me that much. Because it's only been 90 minutes. But books, comics, and TV shows are a different animal because there are hours upon hours invested into these characters for a number of years.

I have zero interest in something like CSI or Law & Order, but if for whatever reason I took the time to sit down and watch all 15 season or whatever of one of those shows I would probably be pretty attached to the characters by the end of it. So you take that and apply it to something like TMNT which I've been attached to since my earliest memories and that "bond" to these fictional characters is just incredibly strong.

[fridaynightdestination]

Well today some kids attacked me and my friend, and I was thinking "I wish I had someone like one of the Ninja Turtles as a friend they could stand up for me and beat them up." But alas, I don't, because they aren't real. If one, if not all of the Ninja Turtle's were real and if I was friends with them that'd be awesome, but they aren't real so I don't, and there's nothing I can do about it.

[Wildcat]

I like the turtles for the martial arts and unique characters. Still its not my number 1 favorite franchise. Its probably my second.

My number 1 is Sonic. That I do have a bigger emotional connection with. It goes beyond the games and such, which I do enjoy, but for me its more than that. In my mind Sonic is real.

I got into the turtles first but I just liked Sonic more. His speed, the way he looks, the personality.

[jenna]

What a great discussion topic. Thank you, Davetello, for such insight and honesty.

For me I think its attraction is that it is a unique spin on the 'underdog' story. Anyone who has ever felt that they don't fit in the world can relate to it.

I don't really think of TMNT as 'superheroes' and as such can't really compare with the Spidermans and Supermans of the world. Yes, they were mutated in a freak accident with a mysterious chemical, but other than their form it didn't grant them super strength or skill (despite what is suggested in that OT episode 'The Gang's All Here' :ohwell: ) The turtles had to earn their abilities. And that's part of their appeal.

The fact that they are turtles also challenges the view of the traditional hero. It's rewarding to watch because it teaches that even the unlikeliest hero can achieve great things. There's hope for us all.

The backdrop of ancient Japanese culture, art, mysticism is fascinating and gives the story depth. This is why I really love the Nick series and 2k3, because care has gone into the martial arts and there are convincing fight sequences. Martial arts are beautiful and powerful. I know that TMNT started off as a parody and is viewed by many as simple Sci-fi, but it's been done in a way which gives it a richness, which is why I think it has evolved into something of such substance.

I love the distinction between shadow and light. It's not used in the traditional good v evil context. Shadow in TMNT is a sanctuary and 2k3, 2007 and Nick have all used this concept to their advantage, using the moon or street lamps to backlight the turtles, or having them shrouded in shadow so that just their eyes are visible etc.... it gives the turtles an edge and gives the environment a sense of dark, sinister beauty.

The humour is also very appealing. It feels good to laugh and this is always worked in well with the right balance.

The main thing for me though - and this is what will always keep me coming back to turtles - is the characters. They are so wonderfully troubled, optimistic, intelligent, damaged, sanguine, ultimately hopeful.... I could go on.... they are all really engaging in their own ways and they feel so real for it.

Also, I think there is a social angle. Hideous things happen in our world. I think that there is an element of wish-fulfillment in TMNT: There is something so wonderful about the idea that a crime-riddled city is being secretly guarded from the shadows, by mysterious creatures who wish to protect it. You might get a glimpse of them as their shadows pepper the sky as they traverse the rooftops, but then they've vanished, and you'll wonder if you ever really saw them.

[pharaohyami5000]

It is a unique idea. I don't know if I can get into this series if say humans were the turtles and Splinter (well he was for Classics and Nicks I believe; dunno about the other medias).

Characters can be loved, tolerated or hated, main story can be relaxed or exciting (though a chain of dull episodes happen, which I can tolerate up to 2 in a row; 3 is a risk and 4+ will make me lose interest for a few days or so), and execution of these elements determine greatly for me whether or not to be a fan of these different categories.

Turtles, I love the characters beginning with their heroic, daring and comedic actions in the Classic series and I enjoy the story structure and tense atmosphere in the 2k3 series. Heroes and villains can be found in any place, this is one good example of that.

[Leofan26]

I have a reason for liking each turtle.

Leo being my favorite, I love how protective he is over his brothers to the point that his fear of loosing one of them over thinking he's an awful leader. I also like his fighting skills and styles. His relationship with Karai, sister or crush and how it's developed is another plus in my book, I really love his connections to the Shredder plots :D

Even though Raph is maybe one of my least favorites, the relationship between them in the past shows and films has always been one of my favorite aspects. I wish the 2012 series showed it a bit more but it seems that role Raph had has been passed down to Donnie sadly :(

Donnie, in the past shows I've always loved how sweet he is and his obsession with science. In the 2012 series that side of Donnie is being overshadowed by his crush on April to the point that it makes him un like able in my opinion. This jealous side to him we've been seeing of him doesn't make him look good. I'm hoping he gets over her and goes back to the old Donnie I loved, or made it less shoved in your face and focused more on other things, who knows in store for us in season three guess will wait and see eh?:(

Mikey, ok I take back my comments about Raph being my least favorite of the turtles, that title goes to Mikey actually. Each series they seem to not know what to do with him. Still, I'll give a good positive comment on him and why I used to like him, the the live action flicks I think did him the best and got me to like him a lot. It's the shows that's a major turn off to his character to me but again that's me :)

[zodiac brave]

i think, for me, the allure of the turtles has evolved as i have over the years.

as a kid, it was the idea that they were four fun-loving bros that kicked butt and ate pizza...the basis for a lot of the original fan's love, as well. as we are all aware of, they were everywhere. it was sensory overload and as a kid, of course, you just go with the flow. they were so popular that i couldnt help but be swept up in the hype.

as i moved on to middle school, i discovered the mirage stuff and the "maturity" of those stories sort of stoked the fire and opened my eyes up to a whole new world in which my old friends were also able to romp around in, but in adventures that were a bit more appealing to someone of my age at the time.

that continued on into high school, but by then, i'd dug a little deeper and learned everything i could about the real-world origin. i was interested in writing and art, and the idea of two buddies getting together one night and a riffing on some drawings was romantic to me. even if the turtles hadn't become the phemonemon they had, that sole idea, just being in a situation where you could go crazy with creativity and create something from a place of utter love and enjoyment for the sake of creation and the love of the medium seemed so moving. and it didnt hurt that the creation had INDEED become a hugely popular franchise, either.

once i was a few years outta high school, the 2k3 show began and it was a reflection of those darker stories i'd come to love a few years before. then mirage volume 4...

basically, there was always something new for me to check out and get into and it seems like each of these incarnations has arrived and reflected a tone that really spoke to me at whatever time it was in my life.

they are basically like best friends or family to me. the character of splinter really, REALLY resonates with me, particularly form the original movie. i grew up with a really crappy dad. to this day, i can let a lot of things roll off my back or sort of rationalize, as things that just happen during life. its not perfect and theres a lot of crap people have to go through, but life is life and we have to power through. that said, i still have difficulties when it comes to my "father issues" and the scene with raph where splinter explains that no matter what may be going on in his head, his father and brothers will always be there. tmnt has always been about family and for someone who came from a broken home and had to put up with so much hassle from other kids, as well...well...tmnt was everything i needed.

i love it for that and always, always will.

[Warhorse]

So many different little things. The biggest one though, I find it easier to relate to these guys than any other fictional character. Most characters are the solo artists. They have a few friends, but most of the time, except for the occasional girlfriend and maybe a parent, they are alone, and well, even though I am an only child, I was never alone. I had three cousins that lived right next door to me, and I still hang out to this day, so I think the biggest aspect is the family closeness of the Turtles. They fight and bicker and definitely have thier polar opposites, but in the end, they are still family, just like my cousins and I are. This family setting is what I think sets it apart from other franchises.

[IndigoErth]

Thinking...

I think a big thing that also really resonates with me, centered square on my fave, goes to the fact that I live in a society/world that values the extroverts and risk takers, it likes the people who jump in there head first, those who are the life of the party.

I'm the cautious one, the observer, the one that wants to think it through first and never dives in without knowing what I'm getting into, the one who will never be the life of the party and maybe some might find me boring because of it or think I'm a stick in the mud because I'd prefer to play by the rules, do what I feel is right and remain true to myself.... But Leo is much like this. And he, fictional or not, is awesome and makes it ok and awesome to be that sort. http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/196/a/e/_tighthug__by_darkmoon3636.gif

[Davetello]

Thanks for all of the lovely and intelligent responses. I am glad you all enjoyed the question :)

Very tired right now but I will reply to a selection of comments when I feel more refreshed.

[Mellie]

I can't really say why the turtles matters so much to me. The turtles and the supporting characters (but primarily the guys themselves) have simply made an everlasting impression on me. I care about them almost as if they are real and not fictional - in brief moments I will remember that they don't really exist, that they have never existed and - most importantly - that they could never exist, and I find myself disappointed. Disappointed that I will never know them. This seems like a very strange way of thinking and I'm thinking that I might be judged for saying so - even here amongst people who 'get' the turtles like I do. But it's how I feel... there's no point sugar-coating it.



I'm so happy someone else feels exactly like I do. Reading that gave me goosebumps, haha.

[Davetello]

I'm so happy someone else feels exactly like I do. Reading that gave me goosebumps, haha.

Yep, it's a paradoxical feeling - depressing in that these guys aren't real (see posts above implying we could be good friends with them if they were), yet it's also comforting because we know that - unlike real friends - there's no chance that they will ever die, and large parts of their lives will be available for us to watch, read or play until we die ourselves :)

[arkangel]

For me, as a 14 year old in 1985, I was initially drawn to the comics as there was absolutely nothing to compare it to. The concept was completely off the wall, but the storytelling didn't feel campy, like it was a spoof of other comic characters (even though it was to a degree). There was a level of seriousness, honesty and fearlessness in how Eastman and Laird approached the characters, the setting, and storylines that made me feel like this world they created could actually exist in the gritty, urban sprawl of modern day New York. It had a feeling of realism that surpassed anything I was reading from Marvel or DC at the time. You didn't know if the Turtles were going to make it through their next encounter. There was a sense of palpable danger and anxiety provoking intrigue. You couldn't wait till the following issue to route for them. They also had very distinct and well thought out personalities. With other comic heroes, there was always a disconnect. They were all 2 dimensional pictures on a page, requiring a strong suspension of belief. With TMNT you didn't have to. You bought it right away. Lastly, it gave me a feeling that I was special. I was part of a hidden world where secret battles waged to which the average New Yorker was completely unaware. Ancient vengeance from Ninja masters and their clan, a scheming robotics genius, unknown alien plans under the guise of a legitimate corporation, vigilantes with golf clubs and baseball bats crossing rooftops at night and a caring and loving family of mutants at the centre of it all, giving hope that they would persevere, despite the odds. This was cool at 14 and remains cool at 42. :)

[Davetello]

For me, as a 14 year old in 1985, I was initially drawn to the comics as there was absolutely nothing to compare it to. The concept was completely off the wall, but the storytelling didn't feel campy, like it was a spoof of other comic characters (even though it was to a degree). There was a level of seriousness, honesty and fearlessness in how Eastman and Laird approached the characters, the setting, and storylines that made me feel like this world they created could actually exist in the gritty, urban sprawl of modern day New York. It had a feeling of realism that surpassed anything I was reading from Marvel or DC at the time. You didn't know if the Turtles were going to make it through their next encounter. There was a sense of palpable danger and anxiety provoking intrigue. You couldn't wait till the following issue to route for them. They also had very distinct and well thought out personalities. With other comic heroes, there was always a disconnect. They were all 2 dimensional pictures on a page, requiring a strong suspension of belief. With TMNT you didn't have to. You bought it right away. Lastly, it gave me a feeling that I was special. I was part of a hidden world where secret battles waged to which the average New Yorker was completely unaware. Ancient vengeance from Ninja masters and their clan, a scheming robotics genius, unknown alien plans under the guise of a legitimate corporation, vigilantes with golf clubs and baseball bats crossing rooftops at night and a caring and loving family of mutants at the centre of it all, giving hope that they would persevere, despite the odds. This was cool at 14 and remains cool at 42. :)

Fantastic post mate. Great insight and lovely to have the view of someone who was old enough to experience Mirage as it came out :)

[arkangel]

Fantastic post mate. Great insight and lovely to have the view of someone who was old enough to experience Mirage as it came out :)

Thanks bro. Those of us that saw the original Star Wars in the theatre and picked up the Mirage comics on publishing day are a rarer demographic of the fandom for sure. We're akin to WWII veterans or something.
(.....psst.. as long as we don't say anything negative about the first cartoon series, the kids let us play here. ;) )


Nostalgia is Nostalgia regarless of age. Music, movies, tv shows, comics, roleplaying games, video games, sci-fi. Whatever we loved in our mid to late teens is going to be the most special and well regarded, whether that happens to be the mid 80s, 90's or 2000s. My mirage comics are the next guy's 4kids cartoon. It's all relative. If you haven't already, which I'm sure you probably have, grab the 1st volume of the Ultimate Collector's edition and try and read it as if you have never experienced TMNT before ; like you've never read any of the future comics and have never watched a single cartoon or movie. Every incarnation and every medium has it's own feel and everyone has their favorite. This just happens to be my mine.

[Gunpowder]

Talk about a worthwhile thread. I went from bored to heartfelt after reading these posts.

The first time I gave my full attention to the Turtles was with the 2007 film. I was flipping through the channels one day (I was 14 at the time) and I stumbled across a close-up of a tense turtle with a blue bandana over his eyes, saying, "Don't do this, Raph." Then one with a red bandana: "I'm done takin' orders." And it had me.

What's so great about the Turtles is that it goes further than the comics; it goes further than the shows, the toys, the merchandise, the movies. There's something inexplicably relatable that resonates within those guys. Beyond those kid-friendly faces of theirs, there are themes that we unconsciously connect with, and we can see bits and pieces of ourselves within them - some more so than others. I have an older brother who no longer speaks to me or my family (it's been that way for some time now), and I don't know what's become of him. When I see the Turtles interacting as brothers, there's that inkling of gratification, that feeling that I still share a brotherly bond with someone. Maybe the reason Raph's my favorite is because he's almost exactly like mine used to be. Not something I realized until much later, because after watching the last 30 minutes of that movie, I didn't revisit the Turtles until seeing the 2012 iteration.

The crazy thing is, those relatable themes aren't directly intended for them to portray - they come about through sheer chemistry. It's unbelievable, really, that the Ninja Turtles, of all things, can do that so remarkably effectively. So I can certainly relate to your disappointment that they're fictional. I've actually never pondered on that until now.

Looking forward to what more people have to say about this.

I imagine this is what it's like to fall in love. I don't think I've ever been in love as I'm quite emotionally empty and find it hard to feel for people in that way. But I would guess that it's just something which you 'feel' and don't really understand on any rational level - it isn't sensible, it's just there. It's a passionate caring for something and it has no rhyme or reason to it. You know that there's better out there in an objective manner - but you just don't care about objectivity in this instance.

You said it better than I could. "It's just there." That's really the only way to put it.

(Your entire post was phenomenally written, by the way.)

[Davetello]

Thanks again for the great posts. I will reply to as many as I can, as succinctly as I can, over a few posts.

Why do I like the TMNT and why are they my favorite franchise after all these years? I really don't know. If I dislike or don't care about something I can easily tell you the reasons, but when it comes to stuff I care or like about... I find it a lot damn harder to explain.

I can tell you that my favorite things about the franchise include the humor, the chemistry between the characters, the Japanese mythology behind it, the sci-fi, etc. Also, I like how the Turtles are outcasts and trouble comes to them instead of them going right into it(well, sometimes they do).

But the main reason is probably because it was the first "big" franchise that held my interest when I was a kid. If it had been Batman or Dragonball, I'd most likely be as big of a fan of one of those as I am of the Turtles as well.

The Japanese mythology is a good point - it was quite novel in western cartoons at that time, and I'm a sucker for clandestine groups like ninjas. I love the Foot Clan.

Yeah, I think there's something about it being the 'first' thing you care for - the first thing is often the thing which makes most impact. It didn't work that way for me but it has for others I know.



Also the 4 Turtles personalties are based on popular stereotypes. There's always the leader/responsible one, the short tempered one, the smart and scientific one, and the class clown or party attitude one. It's based on real life.

That's a very good point. The turtles are stereotypes deliberately played up. It just works.

Here's one reason I mentioned earlier why TMNT stands out compared to other superheroes:

That's a great quote of yours mate. I agree fully and cannot add any more. I've seen many of your posts and I always enjoy them - regardless of whether they're about the turtles or not.

For me personally, it's about trying to fill my needs of connection (to my childhood), belonging (I was always the outsider as a kid and got bullied a lot as a teen but feel "at home" amongst other fans) and comfort (being a child is the happiest time of your life, even if you get picked on).

And then there's the excitement of finding something new in the stuff you already love (fan art, the hope for a good new movie :lol:) that makes you forget the starving children and world pollution.

Apologies to hear that you were bullied mate :( That's something which is often overlooked - that things like the turtles or hobbies can be a release; a crutch to get us through testing times. And yeah, entertainment also offers an escape from the problems of the world.



Nah, no judgement here, completely understand the occasional feeling of disappointment.

For older, longtime fans these guys are like old friends I guess. And esp if someone has a fave they really identify with a lot, it's easy to feel (or at least I do) that if they stepped into the real world you and that particular character could probably be good friends. And a little disappointing when that would-be buddy can't ever be real... (Though I think often I feel more bad for them over that fact than I do myself. Such awesome people deserve to exist darn it. lol Esp when the real world is stuck with so many crappy humans.) But perhaps unlike a lot of other fictional heroes, if we can't have them then at least in some ways we can aspire to be a little more like them at times. (And not necessarily by taking martial arts and kicking peoples asses. lol)

Additionally I think maybe some part of it could come down to us also being a rather lonely species. We surround ourselves with pets, esp those species who seem to want to be with humans, and we love that some wild animals like dolphins actually show interest in us. But they'll never understand us. All we really have is our own kind. Like the Turtles, we're weird in this world. There may be a lot of us, but we're weird. We're basically mutated talking monkeys and we have no one else outside of our own kind that understands us. Maybe that's why we seem to love creating movies and shows with talking animals. And elevate some like the Turtles to being people, not simply talking animals... other beings we could interact with and who'd actually 'get us,' and for the most part live like us, what's not to love.

Yeah, it just feels like we could all be such great friends with the guys, they could enrich our lives. They do feel like a comfort blanket, in a way. I like to think I could have some thoughtful discussions with Donatello, and tell Raphael that I know how he feels when he becomes angry and frustrated - let him know that I understand. But it can't happen/. And yes, they really do deserve to exist - they'd be a credit to the planet. :(

That's a fantastic point - we are alone as species. I think often about how we're really the only sentient species - evolved apes. So to see animals who can talk and walk like us is something which is intriguing. Unfortunately in the turtles' universe they know they have to hide as they would be persecuted for this, rather than celebrated. The fact that they know this before even trying to go public is a great social commentary on humanity - a damning indictment of our species.



The reason I'm so attached to them I think is largely just due to how long I've been into these stories and characters. I think a lot of it has to do with the amount of time invested. There are lots of movies that I've seen where I really enjoy the characters, but when they die or sequels are never made it doesn't really bother me that much. Because it's only been 90 minutes. But books, comics, and TV shows are a different animal because there are hours upon hours invested into these characters for a number of years.

I have zero interest in something like CSI or Law & Order, but if for whatever reason I took the time to sit down and watch all 15 season or whatever of one of those shows I would probably be pretty attached to the characters by the end of it. So you take that and apply it to something like TMNT which I've been attached to since my earliest memories and that "bond" to these fictional characters is just incredibly strong.

I often say the same thing - books, comics and television really lack the time constraints that films do. There's so much more time for character development and evolution of a series. It's quite telling that television used to be frowned upon but is perhaps becoming more popular than film. Comics are becoming more socially acceptable as well, and I think it's because people are finally cottoning on to the facts that - not only are these mediums capable of high art - but that they have so much more room to tell a complex story.

Well today some kids attacked me and my friend, and I was thinking "I wish I had someone like one of the Ninja Turtles as a friend they could stand up for me and beat them up." But alas, I don't, because they aren't real. If one, if not all of the Ninja Turtle's were real and if I was friends with them that'd be awesome, but they aren't real so I don't, and there's nothing I can do about it.

Sorry to hear they attacked you :( At least the turtles are a comfort in such situations. You should really report them to a teacher or tell a parent (I don't know how old you are). You don't have to tolerate that.

I like the turtles for the martial arts and unique characters. Still its not my number 1 favorite franchise. Its probably my second.

My number 1 is Sonic. That I do have a bigger emotional connection with. It goes beyond the games and such, which I do enjoy, but for me its more than that. In my mind Sonic is real.

I got into the turtles first but I just liked Sonic more. His speed, the way he looks, the personality.

Sonic is quite good too. I'm only a very, very casual fan though i.e. play the games now and then.

[Davetello]

What a great discussion topic. Thank you, Davetello, for such insight and honesty.

For me I think its attraction is that it is a unique spin on the 'underdog' story. Anyone who has ever felt that they don't fit in the world can relate to it.

I don't really think of TMNT as 'superheroes' and as such can't really compare with the Spidermans and Supermans of the world. Yes, they were mutated in a freak accident with a mysterious chemical, but other than their form it didn't grant them super strength or skill (despite what is suggested in that OT episode 'The Gang's All Here' :ohwell: ) The turtles had to earn their abilities. And that's part of their appeal.

The fact that they are turtles also challenges the view of the traditional hero. It's rewarding to watch because it teaches that even the unlikeliest hero can achieve great things. There's hope for us all.

The backdrop of ancient Japanese culture, art, mysticism is fascinating and gives the story depth. This is why I really love the Nick series and 2k3, because care has gone into the martial arts and there are convincing fight sequences. Martial arts are beautiful and powerful. I know that TMNT started off as a parody and is viewed by many as simple Sci-fi, but it's been done in a way which gives it a richness, which is why I think it has evolved into something of such substance.

I love the distinction between shadow and light. It's not used in the traditional good v evil context. Shadow in TMNT is a sanctuary and 2k3, 2007 and Nick have all used this concept to their advantage, using the moon or street lamps to backlight the turtles, or having them shrouded in shadow so that just their eyes are visible etc.... it gives the turtles an edge and gives the environment a sense of dark, sinister beauty.

The humour is also very appealing. It feels good to laugh and this is always worked in well with the right balance.

The main thing for me though - and this is what will always keep me coming back to turtles - is the characters. They are so wonderfully troubled, optimistic, intelligent, damaged, sanguine, ultimately hopeful.... I could go on.... they are all really engaging in their own ways and they feel so real for it.

Also, I think there is a social angle. Hideous things happen in our world. I think that there is an element of wish-fulfillment in TMNT: There is something so wonderful about the idea that a crime-riddled city is being secretly guarded from the shadows, by mysterious creatures who wish to protect it. You might get a glimpse of them as their shadows pepper the sky as they traverse the rooftops, but then they've vanished, and you'll wonder if you ever really saw them.

You're welcome, Jenna. Thanks for the compliments, and your post was one of my favourites. You make many great points. Them being the unlikely protectors, the twist on the light/dark dichotomy, the fact they earned their abilities, and the way in which they're essentially underdogs fighting against clandestine organisations and powerful empires...they really do achieve a lot for five teenagers :)


Turtles, I love the characters beginning with their heroic, daring and comedic actions in the Classic series and I enjoy the story structure and tense atmosphere in the 2k3 series. Heroes and villains can be found in any place, this is one good example of that.

Yeah, very good points man. They're a mix of everything.

I have a reason for liking each turtle.

Leo being my favorite, I love how protective he is over his brothers to the point that his fear of loosing one of them over thinking he's an awful leader. I also like his fighting skills and styles. His relationship with Karai, sister or crush and how it's developed is another plus in my book, I really love his connections to the Shredder plots :D


I've read and replied to the threads you've made about your troubles with your father. I hope this isn't crossing the line, but I really think a large part of why Leo appeals to you so much is his protective nature you allude to. As well as looking after his brothers, I get the feeling he could stand up to your dad for you, and that's why you care so much about him. And that's the sort of thing where 'entertainment' becomes a crutch. It goes back to us wishing these guys were real as they'd really enrich our lives, and maybe vice-versa as they'd enjoy more human contact.

i think, for me, the allure of the turtles has evolved as i have over the years.


they are basically like best friends or family to me. the character of splinter really, REALLY resonates with me, particularly form the original movie. i grew up with a really crappy dad. to this day, i can let a lot of things roll off my back or sort of rationalize, as things that just happen during life. its not perfect and theres a lot of crap people have to go through, but life is life and we have to power through. that said, i still have difficulties when it comes to my "father issues" and the scene with raph where splinter explains that no matter what may be going on in his head, his father and brothers will always be there. tmnt has always been about family and for someone who came from a broken home and had to put up with so much hassle from other kids, as well...well...tmnt was everything i needed.

i love it for that and always, always will.

Like with others, I read your entire post, but have cut it down. I agree that the turtles sort of mirrored how many of matured over the years - they hit at the right time with FW when we were kids and wanted goofiness, and then every iteration seemed more adult as we got into them (90 film,4kids, Mirage), and they drew parallels with our experience as adolescents and then young adults. And what you say about Splinter is again a point which others have made - we can relate to these guys in terms of what is going on in our lives, and they offer emotional support without even knowing it.

So many different little things. The biggest one though, I find it easier to relate to these guys than any other fictional character. Most characters are the solo artists. They have a few friends, but most of the time, except for the occasional girlfriend and maybe a parent, they are alone, and well, even though I am an only child, I was never alone. I had three cousins that lived right next door to me, and I still hang out to this day, so I think the biggest aspect is the family closeness of the Turtles. They fight and bicker and definitely have thier polar opposites, but in the end, they are still family, just like my cousins and I are. This family setting is what I think sets it apart from other franchises.

Yep, the family setting is one of the franchise's biggest selling points, one of its kickers. I'm glad you've always had relatives around as not everyone is so fortunate.

[Davetello]

For me, as a 14 year old in 1985, I was initially drawn to the comics as there was absolutely nothing to compare it to. The concept was completely off the wall, but the storytelling didn't feel campy, like it was a spoof of other comic characters (even though it was to a degree). There was a level of seriousness, honesty and fearlessness in how Eastman and Laird approached the characters, the setting, and storylines that made me feel like this world they created could actually exist in the gritty, urban sprawl of modern day New York. It had a feeling of realism that surpassed anything I was reading from Marvel or DC at the time. You didn't know if the Turtles were going to make it through their next encounter. There was a sense of palpable danger and anxiety provoking intrigue. You couldn't wait till the following issue to route for them. They also had very distinct and well thought out personalities. With other comic heroes, there was always a disconnect. They were all 2 dimensional pictures on a page, requiring a strong suspension of belief. With TMNT you didn't have to. You bought it right away. Lastly, it gave me a feeling that I was special. I was part of a hidden world where secret battles waged to which the average New Yorker was completely unaware. Ancient vengeance from Ninja masters and their clan, a scheming robotics genius, unknown alien plans under the guise of a legitimate corporation, vigilantes with golf clubs and baseball bats crossing rooftops at night and a caring and loving family of mutants at the centre of it all, giving hope that they would persevere, despite the odds. This was cool at 14 and remains cool at 42. :)

I quoted the wrong post mate (I already quoted this, and agree completely), but in reference to your follow up post - you're right that reading Mirage with a 'turtle empty' mind can really enrich it in terms of it being stand alone. Yes, you're right, I've read most of Mirage, and have a few of the Ultimate Collections. It's quite fascinating how the same characters can be completely different based on how they're depicted. Almost like they are bare flesh which is then given different layers of complexity based on which iteration they are part of.

Talk about a worthwhile thread. I went from bored to heartfelt after reading these posts.

The first time I gave my full attention to the Turtles was with the 2007 film. I was flipping through the channels one day (I was 14 at the time) and I stumbled across a close-up of a tense turtle with a blue bandana over his eyes, saying, "Don't do this, Raph." Then one with a red bandana: "I'm done takin' orders." And it had me.

I have an older brother who no longer speaks to me or my family (it's been that way for some time now), and I don't know what's become of him. When I see the Turtles interacting as brothers, there's that inkling of gratification, that feeling that I still share a brotherly bond with someone. Maybe the reason Raph's my favorite is because he's almost exactly like mine used to be. Not something I realized until much later, because after watching the last 30 minutes of that movie, I didn't revisit the Turtles until seeing the 2012 iteration.

The crazy thing is, those relatable themes aren't directly intended for them to portray - they come about through sheer chemistry. It's unbelievable, really, that the Ninja Turtles, of all things, can do that so remarkably effectively. So I can certainly relate to your disappointment that they're fictional. I've actually never pondered on that until now.

Looking forward to what more people have to say about this.



You said it better than I could. "It's just there." That's really the only way to put it.

(Your entire post was phenomenally written, by the way.)

Thanks for your compliments on my original post :) It makes me happy that my thread & the responses within were powerful enough to change your mood for the better. Yours was another great post. I am sorry to hear about your issues with your brother, and the ongoing theme is again present - us seeing our own lives within the property and using it as a comfort blanket to help us cope better. And you are absolutely right - their family bond never feels forced, or manufactured. It is natural and just happens without them realising it - chemistry, as you put it. I'm glad to have made you conscious of the disappointing aspect of them never existing, and hope you can get more out of it by pondering it from time to time.

I too wish to see this thread go on as I think it's great to hear people's thoughts and stories.



Two years ago, I was passing through a deep depression and a lot of anxiety, so there were lot of nights I couldn't sleep. I used to spend those hours lost in Youtube and the blogsphere trying to distract myself from negative thoughts. One day, I saw the promo of the Nickelodeon show, and it seemed funny, so I decided to give it a chance. Well, I just fell in love with it, and from then to now, I have been watching, reading and playing any show, movie, comic and videogame from the franchise, and it has become my favorite one. There is not single day the turtles don't came into my mind and they help me to distract myself when sadness and loneliness strike again.

I think it's because sometimes I wish to have the relationships the turtles have between them, with their father and friends; they can always count on each other, something I feel I can't. On the other hand, I also can feel identified with their feeling of loneliness and alienation, specially with Raphael ones. They may not have human appearance, but they behave more likely than any other superhero, IMO.

Sorry to hear about your depression m8. Always here to help if you need a shoulder. And yes, again we see that these guys are easy to relate to and offer a crutch when we are struggling. That's been a consistent theme throughout the replies, and while that's a clear attraction of any entertainment property, I feel that the turtles have a unique quality which make them somewhat more 'special' than other franchises. But perhaps that's because they're the thing which gets to most of us more than any other. Somewhere on a Star Wars or an X-Men forum, people there are saying the same things - "we care greatly about these people, but we just can't explain why. It's a feeling".


......................

Apologies for any typos in my responses, and thanks again for all the replies thus far. I know this has been a massive reply (split over three posts due to word limits), but seeing as people took the time to reply so fantastically, I felt that I as thread creator had a responsibility to acknowledge their comments and make some effort to reply in kind. That's not necessary for many threads, but I feel that this is an important topic which deserves some care.

[This_is_my_username]

These replies make me smile a lot.

What everyone said is relatable, and I can't seem to get my own feelings down in type. Short and gruff version, ditto to all. TMNT/BTVS are my adoptive sibling series. I grew up with these characters, first TMNT circa 1988/89 to BTVS in 96. In every aspect of myself, I find myself able to connect, attach, de-attach with frustration, tear apart quietly, and re-attach with understanding or tolerance, much like a deep sibling attachment. They are relatable, hence connective, to their core. Even in their most fantastical and extraordinary adventures and later lifestyles, they are still fighting a never ending struggle to find a place and meaning, still screwing up and then sometimes getting things right. What isn't awesome about that? You can count me in as a lifer for TMNT.

[Davetello]

These replies make me smile a lot.

What everyone said is relatable, and I can't seem to get my own feelings down in type. Short and gruff version, ditto to all. TMNT/BTVS are my adoptive sibling series. I grew up with these characters, first TMNT circa 1988/89 to BTVS in 96. In every aspect of myself, I find myself able to connect, attach, de-attach with frustration, tear apart quietly, and re-attach with understanding or tolerance, much like a deep sibling attachment. They are relatable, hence connective, to their core. Even in their most fantastical and extraordinary adventures and later lifestyles, they are still fighting a never ending struggle to find a place and meaning, still screwing up and then sometimes getting things right. What isn't awesome about that? You can count me in as a lifer for TMNT.

Great post, friend.

[RaphaelinSTL]

This is a great topic and one my brother and I were talking about the other day. Out of all the things I've loved over the years pop culture wise...it's only really been Batman and Ninja Turtles that have stayed with me since I was little. Even my Batman appreciation is slowing down more than TMNT lately.

I don't remember why I loved the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at a young age, but I know I was obsessed with it. I loved the cartoon, I adored the film and I HAD to have all the toys. There was just something about the Turtles themselves and their legion of villains that just appealed to me. It's so easy to see how they influenced many generations of kid's franchises later as well.

There's something about those designs of the Shredder, the Turtles and the Foot Clan that will just never leave my mind. As with many franchises, once you dig deeper into the long history and rich stories of the TMNT you become even more immersed.

I love film and I've always wanted to create movies that found a balance between Alejandro Jodorowsky, David Lynch and Spike Jonze...I always joked with friends that if I ever became a successful and critically acclaimed director that won all of these awards and Hollywood buzz that my "I MUST MAKE THIS" director project would always be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film. I just always liked the idea of someone taking the franchise seriously and making a damn good movie in the tone of the original 1990 film. I still stand by that. =)

All in all, my obsession may not be as strong at certain times but nothing will ever take how important the TMNT has been to me.

[Davetello]

This is a great topic and one my brother and I were talking about the other day. Out of all the things I've loved over the years pop culture wise...it's only really been Batman and Ninja Turtles that have stayed with me since I was little. Even my Batman appreciation is slowing down more than TMNT lately.

I don't remember why I loved the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at a young age, but I know I was obsessed with it. I loved the cartoon, I adored the film and I HAD to have all the toys. There was just something about the Turtles themselves and their legion of villains that just appealed to me. It's so easy to see how they influenced many generations of kid's franchises later as well.

There's something about those designs of the Shredder, the Turtles and the Foot Clan that will just never leave my mind. As with many franchises, once you dig deeper into the long history and rich stories of the TMNT you become even more immersed.

I love film and I've always wanted to create movies that found a balance between Alejandro Jodorowsky, David Lynch and Spike Jonze...I always joked with friends that if I ever became a successful and critically acclaimed director that won all of these awards and Hollywood buzz that my "I MUST MAKE THIS" director project would always be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film. I just always liked the idea of someone taking the franchise seriously and making a damn good movie in the tone of the original 1990 film. I still stand by that. =)

All in all, my obsession may not be as strong at certain times but nothing will ever take how important the TMNT has been to me.

Yeah, I know the feeling. It's like the turtles are our 'default' mode in terms of entertainment. We can be watching or reading other things but the turtles will always be the one constant. We come and go with others things, but the turtles are always present, even when not actively being consumed.

There's something about the turtles, Shredder and the Foot which just really appeals to me as well. I enjoy all the sci-fi stuff immensely too, but the turtles fighting the Foot and Saki at street level has always been my favourite part of the property. I love the way ninjas look - cloaked in black like the Foot or red like the Hand. On that topic, I also credit the turtles for me getting into Daredevil, for obvious reasons. Stories set at street level really appeal to me.

[Davetello]

The TMNT forums have been a little slow, so I decided to bump this for anyone who may not have seen it yet. Anyone have some thoughts they wish to add? Anyone wanna explain why the turtles grab their attention?

[Luckyday]

Even they are ninjas, the series had stay away from the supernatural ninja. Also it helps that there's no character that are "I'm so hard because I don't smile" like Sasuke.

[IndigoErth]

Really, what other heroes are so badass and dangerous yet you could might wanna hug them to death, too? Nobody, that's who. :D

When superheros are like "Come! We shall go to this fill in the blank place! I'll use my powers to get there fast! See you in, oh...in about an hour? When you get there." You and Turtles: "Well...I guess we're walking." But I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Brooke507]

Do I have to apologize for getting into the turtles late? I mean they've around for a while and I've only just been a fan since August of this year rofl. I appreciate the turtles for their awesome personalities and how they help save the world.

[snake]

Honestly? It was Ray Fillet who got me hooked. An old Ray Fillet toy that my uncle had. That design was so original and he looked so cool. I took him home and eventually got the rest of his collection. I love the idea and that's kept me staying. You can do so much with it and it's really fun to see different people make stories with the characters.

[IndigoErth]

Do I have to apologize for getting into the turtles late? I mean they've around for a while and I've only just been a fan since August of this year rofl.
Not at all, new fans help to continue to keep TMNT going and pass it down to generations after them.

Glad you found your Turtles awakening. ;) lol

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, it was the 90 movie that originally got me into them. I was vaguely aware of the cartoon before that, but never got "into" it until I saw the movie and just fell in love with them. Just seeing these four outsiders who didn't fit in and were alone in the world touched something in me that has never left. I loved their personalities, their family bond, and their willingness to stand up and fight for others, even though they had little reason to. It made me want to be more like that, too. And like others have said, I felt like I could connect with them as friends, if they were real. Even got interested in genetics as a side effect, wondering how it might be possible to create something like them whether by design or accident. I have my theories on that.....

But the funny thing is that even though I moved away from them for a long time, it is still my first REAL love in terms of comic/hero franchises and fandoms. Even Spider-Man (my other big love) takes a back seat to my boys!

And there's a few quotes (from one of my fics) I want to share that explains a lot of why/how I see them, and what I think it means to love something even though you can't explain it.

“No, you’re not. Don’t ever think that- just because you’re different, it doesn’t make you freaks. You’re just- original. Special. To be honest, I’m not even sure there’s a word yet for what you are. But that’s not a bad thing, Mikey. It just means you’re unique. Something the world’s never seen before. Maybe it’s the start of something new and wonderful.”

"Most people would freak out just at the thought that we’re not the only intelligent beings on the planet anymore. It’s just- hard to accept, that’s all. But if you boys were human, and as beautiful on the outside as you are on the inside, Splinter would have to beat off the girls with his walking stick. And THAT’S the honest truth.”
He still didn’t seem convinced, so I decided to settle his doubts the only other way I knew how- I leaned in and wrapped my arms around his neck, and kissed his cheek. “Ignore what those idiots back there said. They just don’t see how amazing you are.”

"I mean, our whole lives, we’ve been taught that humans would never accept us, and never see us as anything but monsters. But then we actually met a few. April, Casey, Irma, Angel- they don’t treat us like freaks. Even that scumbag Hun respects us, because we’ve kicked his butt so many times. Splinter was wrong, Raph. He said humans could never understand about us- but it’s not true. Some of ’em do. Maybe not many, but enough."

"Life is about chances, making our own choices and doing the best we can with what we have."

[Brooke507]

Not at all, new fans help to continue to keep TMNT going and pass it down to generations after them.

Glad you found your Turtles awakening. ;) lol

Thanks! Lol

[Turtle Park]

For me, the first show got my attention is 2007 movie, and what keeps me going deeper is 2k3 series. But I didn't get into 87's show, believe me, I tried. So I apologize for that if you think I should have watched the entire show already.

I don't exactly know why the Turtles is so important to me, because it all happened in one night when I saw it on TV(and the year is 2010 btw).
Looking back, is probably this scene that got me into this franchise.
<iframe width="854" height="510" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FdtM66SxZeI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

After that, I start to search TMNT on the internet,. Try to find it,but end up found the 87's version(which I do enjoy the few episode from the beginning, because I'm eager to know more about the turtles). And 2k3 series saved me from being the zombie, or I should said "It change my life". Because that's the time when I realize, Taiwan is surrounded by Japanese manga and anime. In that case, some people think Japanese style is better.(The worst thing is, I could be one of them.) But I keep finding things that against that.

The story involved so many element. Not just the "Ninja" but also mix the sci-fi and the family bond plus mythology...well, I can go on and on but let's just stop here. Suffice to say, it opens the New World to me.
And I had a painful time to adjust my mind to believe the thing I like(TMNT). As 2k3 TMNT keep amaze me, I finally overcome the situation.

Nowadays I become out of touch to manga or anime.
Sometimes I watch it with my brother because he wants to share it.
And I keep trying to telling people that Japanese style didn't take over the world.