Is there actually any point to life?

[Davetello]

If you think about it from a nihilistic point of view, existence is utterly meaningless and has no intrinsic value. The core reason for life seems to be to procreate and 'continue the species', but what is it that we're actually continuing? What's the point of humanity going on just for its own sake? Particularly when so many humans tend to be very scummy people? Apparently we are here to foster relationships with friends and family members, but most people don't even like each other anyway.

We've become a sentient species, and we are capable of fantastic things. But much of our energies seem wasted - what's really the point of building skyscrapers which rise thousands of feet into the air? What's the point in running around a field or a court kicking or throwing a ball? Is watching films really of any substantial merit?

Despite my comments on how meaningful I find the turtles, it certainly isn't of a high enough level for me to consider it a counter-argument to wiping out our species. If an asteroid was due to hit Earth and send us the way of the dinosaurs, it would probably be for the best. I'd feel pretty relieved, to be honest. We've destroyed this beautiful planet, and we treat each other with absolute contempt - the social stratification which is a major part of our societies is actually unforgivable, and calls into question the claim that we are an enlightened species. There's something highly repugnant about living in a society where some people can't afford to eat or drink, but others live in mansions composing of sixty empty rooms. It truly is reprehensible.

I enjoy things day to day on a micro level, but on a macro level I know this world will always be rotten. In a sense I really can't wait until I hit my 70s or 80s and expire (assuming I don't die before then). I don't really believe in religion or an afterlife so that will be it for me, and I won't have to think about the absolute fcking state of this planet economically, socially or environmentally. And I won't have to feel dislike for my fellow man and woman.

I realise this is a fairly heavy thread, but what is the actual point? Why do we even exist?

People who make comments like I have here are derided as crazy or deeply troubled - their arguments are overlooked and the focus is turned on to their psychological well-being. And, somewhat ironically, that's yet another reason I have a problem with humanity and hope we are eliminated.

[snake]

Deep. So deeeeeeeep.

[Davetello]

Deep. So deeeeeeeep.

Yes, someone opens up a question for debate and all you can offer is sarcasm. I bet you felt very smug when you typed your utterly witless, unoriginal and generic response.

Actually, strike that, I didn't know you were just a young boy. But still, that doesn't grant you license to go around mocking people.

[pandaderek]

I think people have obligations to each other, which gives life meaning. Humans are social beings and love is important to them, otherwise, their life feels like **** when they don't receive any. Especially, if you have kids, they need to feel loved. The love of oneself is, just, as important, but, only compliments the love from another. I'm not talking sex, I'm talking about the sense of feeling wanted or needed. When people lose that, they have nothing that is worth living for.

[Davetello]

I think people have obligations to each other, which gives life meaning. Humans are social beings and love is important to them, otherwise, their life feels like **** when they don't receive any. Especially, if you have kids, they need to feel loved. The love one oneself is, just, as important, but, only compliments the love from another. I'm not talking sex, I'm talking about the sense of feeling wanted or needed. When people lose that, they have nothing that is worth living for.

That's true. But the point I am making is that we only feel these things because we exist in the first place. They're a part of our existence, but they don't justify its ends. They're not really a reason for existence, but more a by-product of existing.

[CyberCubed]

Unless humans die off from disease or an asteroid, we'll probably go on for another million years.

The only 100% extinction is when the sun goes supernova and expands to destroy the Earth, but that's millions of years by now. By then humans might find a way to leave the Solar system and colonize other Earth-like worlds.

Sci-fi has already shown us the future of the human race, sans all the aliens I guess.

[Davetello]

Unless humans die off from disease or an asteroid, we'll probably go on for another million years.

The only 100% extinction is when the sun goes supernova and expands to destroy the Earth, but that's millions of years by now. By then humans might find a way to leave the Solar system and colonize other Earth-like worlds.

Sci-fi has already shown us the future of the human race, sans all the aliens I guess.

Can't see humanity lasting that long, not with the way we are quickly degrading the planet and exhausting natural resources.

It's a race against the clock to find and colonise the other worlds you mention. But human beings aren't intelligent enough to do it in time.

[pandaderek]

That's true. But the point I am making is that we only feel these things because we exist in the first place. They're a part of our existence, but they don't justify its ends. They're not really a reason for existence, but more a by-product of existing.

But, that assumes that everything is fixed, where the meaning of things can't be changed.

You're speaking from an objective view where meanings exists in nature, it's fixed. I'm speaking from an objective view, where all beings could agree. It's socially objective (and relative to living beings) because all beings would agree, not because it's something that exists within nature.

[Davetello]

But, that assumes that everything is fixed, where the meaning of things can't be changed.

You're speaking from an objective view where meanings exists in nature, it's fixed. I'm speaking from an objective view, where all beings could agree. It's socially objective (and relative to living beings) because all beings would agree, not because it's something that exists within nature.

You make good and thought-provoking points, but the idea of being reaching a consensus is too fanciful. Technically speaking, equality, harmony, fairness, and ultimately a utopia-like society is achievable, in fact it probably wouldn't even be that difficult to manage. But human beings are far too petty and far too obsessed with what separates us (religion, class, colour etc) than what actually links us together.

On the more philosophical point you are getting at - I just can't see how life can be argued to have substantial meaning, even in a better society. It just doesn't really seem like living is something which is worth holding onto - there is too much wrong with life and not enough right.

[Powder]

Aside from the one you assign yourself, probably not.

[CyberCubed]

Can't see humanity lasting that long, not with the way we are quickly degrading the planet and exhausting natural resources.

It's a race against the clock to find and colonise the other worlds you mention. But human beings aren't intelligent enough to do it in time.

Look at the difference between where we are now and back what we were in the year 1900. In only a little over a 100 years the world has changed dramatically.

The world changes dramatically every decade now, what we have now was science fiction back in the 80's. This isn't like how stagnant the world was for years back in the ancient past.

I can certainly imagine by the year 2050, and I hope most of us are still alive by then, will see a totally different world than what we have now. Let alone the year 5,000.

[Jester]

There's got to be more to life than chasing down every temporary high...

[Davetello]

Aside from the one you assign yourself, probably not.

Yes, that probably sums it up well. It's subjective to a person, and if someone really finds purpose and happiness in how they operate day to day, week to week, year to year, then that really is all that matters. But on the objective and philosophical level, I have to wonder if they're lying to themselves, or perhaps just blissfully unaware of the greater issues.

Look at the difference between where we are now and back what we were in the year 1900. In only a little over a 100 years the world has changed dramatically.

The world changes dramatically every decade now, what we have now was science fiction back in the 80's. This isn't like how stagnant the world was for years back in the ancient past.

I can certainly imagine by the year 2050, and I hope most of us are still alive by then, will see a totally different world than what we have now. Let alone the year 5,000.

While I see your point, and I liked your 'glorious time period' topic, I do feel you overestimate humanity and its progress. Much has changed, particularly technologically, but you're too focused on that sort of thing. In terms of science and medicine things haven't progressed at close to the same rate. As for technology, the fact that I am able to talk to you live from thousands of miles away - that's a fantastic thing (although a double-edged sword), but it's really an outcome of imperialism. As the world was colonised by empire and links were forged, even after the dissolution of these empires the next natural step was a globalised interconnected world. And part of that was using technological geniuses to create things such as the telegraph, the telephone, air travel, television and - ultimately - the internet.

I would argue that while technology is a fantastic thing in terms of being able to create it, it isn't actually something which had a radical and inspired idea over. In a sense, people didn't create a globalised technological community because it came to them in some sort of inspired vision, but moreso because it was the next natural (and necessary) step in connecting the world and making it smaller through globalisation.

These advances didn't happen because they have any particular value, but more because they were necessary in a practical manner.

[Davetello]

There's got to be more to life than chasing down every temporary high...

This might be a problem of mine, as you seem to be implying. I don't deal well with the day-to-day boring grind which constitutes 99% of our lives. Most people accept and tolerate that in the knowledge that fleeting moments of meaning make it worth it, but I am not like that - for me the moments of happiness just don't compensate for all the boring, pointless and utterly forgettable sh!t which comprises most of daily life.

So perhaps I am chasing down lots of 'temporary high' in order to add up to an almost permanent high.

[Candy Kappa]

Life isn't bliss, it's just living. And life is at best bittersweet.

The point is to make what you think is the best out of the time you have, either that means make a difference or just be content with whatever you enjoy. Life moves on with or without us.

[Davetello]

Life isn't bliss, it's just living. And life is at best bittersweet.

The point is to make what you think is the best out of the time you have, either that means make a difference or just be content with whatever you enjoy. Life moves on with or without us.

Isn't that the point though? Life is essentially making the best of a futile situation. How can anyone be genuinely happy when they know existence is deeply flawed?

[Jester]

This might be a problem of mine, as you seem to be implying. I don't deal well with the day-to-day boring grind which constitutes 99% of our lives. Most people accept and tolerate that in the knowledge that fleeting moments of meaning make it worth it, but I am not like that - for me the moments of happiness just don't compensate for all the boring, pointless and utterly forgettable sh!t which comprises most of daily life.

So perhaps I am chasing down lots of 'temporary high' in order to add up to an almost permanent high.
Actually I was just quoting a song...

[Davetello]

Actually I was just quoting a song...

Just googled it - never heard of the artist. I tend not to be up to speed on today's musical non-entities.

I thought for a minute that you were actually involving yourself in the discussion - my mistake.

[Prowler]

No particular point. Life is what you make of it, I guess. Some say the afterlife(if it exists, that is) will be the reward for what you've done all your life, but I think what makes life so precious is the fact that it's over one day. I mean, if nothing lasts forever, why would life be the exception to the rule? What would be the point of an afterlife? How different would it be from regular life anyway?

As for sports, games, movies and any kind of entertainment; if it wasn't for them, life would be even worse. They might be pointless at the end of the day, but they bring me more enjoyment than working or studying do. In fact, working and studying make me wonder more about the meaning of life than any other things do. I just cant' help but wonder if all the effort is worth it and if I won't just end up getting a ****** career.

Positive nihilism is the way to go, in my opinion. Don't let the pointless thing that's life let you down. I have no idea what's the purpose and the existence of our world or our galaxy and universe in general. And I'm sure I'll never find it out, but I'm fine with that.

My biggest gripe with life is how boring and ****** it can be more often than it should. Finding it hard to keep myself entertained despite living in 2014, doesn't help either. So many days I've wasted doing practically nothing memorable.

[Davetello]

No particular point. Life is what you make of it, I guess. Some say the afterlife(if it exists, that is) will be the reward for what you've done all your life, but I think what makes life so precious is the fact that it's over one day. I mean, if nothing lasts forever, why would life be the exception to the rule? What would be the point of an afterlife? How different would it be from regular life anyway?

As for sports, games, movies and any kind of entertainment; if it wasn't for them, life would be even worse. They might be pointless at the end of the day, but they bring me more enjoyment than working or studying do. In fact, working and studying make me wonder more about the meaning of life than any other things do. I just cant' help but wonder if all the effort is worth it and if I won't just end up getting a ****** career.

Positive nihilism is the way to go, in my opinion. Don't let the pointless thing that's life let you down. I have no idea what's the purpose and the existence of our world or our galaxy and universe in general. And I'm sure I'll never find it out, but I'm fine with that.

That's a nice point - the claim that life is precious because it could be gone at any instant. But the counter-argument is that if we did die, we would be oblivious to being dead anyway (assuming that people, like us, don't believe in an afterlife), so it's not like we can feel any regret about it. In fact, this further reinforces my point, as the actual regret is what we suffer while we are still alive, and feel like we aren't doing the things we ought to.

I agree that entertainment offers escapism, I've said so plenty of times before. But that again is my point - the fact that we need them to 'escape' the harsh realities of life really illustrates that we are living in a dystopia. Like I said, they are a means of coping with life - they don't make life worthwhile on their own, they just offer a comfort blanket or a band aid.

The thing about studying, education etc is that I view it differently than you do. For you, it seems to be merely practical, a means to an end i.e. finding work. For me it's about trying to understand things more clearly and learn about the world, whether it helps me find a career or not. It works to a point but I'm yet to find a theorist or writer who can convince me that life is worth living.

[Prowler]

The thing about studying, education etc is that I view it differently than you do. For you, it seems to be merely practical, a means to an end i.e. finding work. For me it's about trying to understand things more clearly and learn about the world, whether it helps me find a career or not. It works to a point but I'm yet to find a theorist or writer who can convince me that life is worth living.
I agree with you about studying to some degree. Too bad school and even university can make learning feel like a damn chore. Look at how education makes people hate math and foreign languages, per example. And reading novels.

I find learning on my own to be a lot more fun. Imposition is more likely to breed aversion and contempt.

[Davetello]

I agree with you about studying to some degree. Too bad school and even university can make learning feel like a damn chore. Look at how education makes people hate math and foreign languages, per example. And reading novels.

I find learning on my own to be a lot more fun. Imposition is more likely to breed aversion and contempt.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Schools and universities often have their own agenda, so whilst reading it's important to think with a clear mind and know that this person (and the tone of the course) is prone to the same bias as everyone else.

Like Matt Damon says in Good Will Hunting - the other guy paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education. Hunting received his for $1.50 from a library. It's a crude reference but it is true.

[Dirty Blond]

What animates you, Davetello?

[Davetello]

What animates you, Davetello?

...Nothing

[Metalwolf]

If the underlying idea under all of this is having existence mean something, and feeling that it doesn't, then I ask this question:

How would you define ' meaning?' If you could change something to make it meaningful, what would you change?

[Gunpowder]

I've already asked myself this question many times over, and ultimately have come to most of the same conclusions as you.

When it boils down to it, the only possible thing that can be taken out of life is its availability of distractions - of "fun." No, there is no actual point to life. And that's something I think most people realize. But everyone is always so caught up in their own little worlds, that they unconsciously forget about that. The reason why so many people jump on bandwagons and follow trends is because it gives them a feeling of purpose and belonging - which averts their eyes from the futility of existence. And in a way, I think it's for the best. It's only too bad that so many people have adopted identical ideas of "fun," and that so few people have the balls to be different.

[Davetello]

If the underlying idea under all of this is having existence mean something, and feeling that it doesn't, then I ask this question:

How would you define ' meaning?' If you could change something to make it meaningful, what would you change?

Well, there's nothing that really can be changed. In my view there's nothing that can really give live meaning, purpose, something really important to strive for. So it isn't possible to create true 'meaning', because meaning doesn't exist.

I've already asked myself this question many times over, and ultimately have come to most of the same conclusions as you.

When it boils down to it, the only possible thing that can be taken out of life is its availability of distractions - of "fun." No, there is no actual point to life. And that's something I think most people realize. But everyone is always so caught up in their own little worlds, that they unconsciously forget about that. The reason why so many people jump on bandwagons and follow trends is because it gives them a feeling of purpose and belonging - which averts their eyes from the futility of existence. And in a way, I think it's for the best. It's only too bad that so many people have adopted identical ideas of "fun," and that so few people have the balls to be different.

Excellent post. Everything is an escape, a distraction. But my contention is that it's best humanity dies out - then we won't need distractions anyway.

[Gunpowder]

Excellent post. Everything is an escape, a distraction. But my contention is that it's best humanity dies out - then we won't need distractions anyway.

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's a healthy mindset. True, we don't need to exist, but we do; and within the pile of sh!t that is life, there is the occasional gem that pops up if we try hard enough to find it. Don't dwell too much on the fact that we're a waste; it's a fact, but spending too much time pondering on it is a waste in itself - because we know it's true, so why analyze it more than we need to?

Maybe it would be best for humanity to die out. But that completely lacks predictability and is beyond our control, so we shouldn't spend too much time thinking on that logic either. That's why distractions are so great; they help us forget about all that until our time comes. And "distractions" isn't the best term for it because that makes it sound negative; the truth is that without them, we'd literally do nothing for our entire lives, which would make our existence just as pointless as it already is. So might as well find something to do with ourselves while we're here.

[Davetello]

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's a healthy mindset. True, we don't need to exist, but we do; and within the pile of sh!t that is life, there is the occasional gem that pops up if we try hard enough to find it. Don't dwell too much on the fact that we're a waste; it's a fact, but spending too much time pondering on it is a waste in itself - because we know it's true, so why analyze it more than we need to?

Maybe it would be best for humanity to die out. But that completely lacks predictability and is beyond our control, so we shouldn't spend too much time thinking on that logic either. That's why distractions are so great; they help us forget about all that until our time comes. And "distractions" isn't the best term for it because that makes it sound negative; the truth is that without them, we'd literally do nothing for our entire lives, which would make our existence just as pointless as it already is. So might as well find something to do with ourselves while we're here.

Fair post. Logging off now but will reply to it properly on my return.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Actually I was just quoting a song...

Should have quoted the Monty Python song.

[Prowler]

Should have quoted the Monty Python song.
That movie alone makes life worth living.

[Mzx10484]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Schools and universities often have their own agenda, so whilst reading it's important to think with a clear mind and know that this person (and the tone of the course) is prone to the same bias as everyone else.

Like Matt Damon says in Good Will Hunting - the other guy paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education. Hunting received his for $1.50 from a library. It's a crude reference but it is true.

Yes, it is true and at the same time obvious. I study Social Science here in Germany (state university, without significant costs). Lectures and seminars at University of Applied Sciences are mostly a very good introduction and motivation. Depending on how deep you want to understand topics, you have to study at leisure, reading books. And there are excellent books that convey knowledge and are partially super cheap (clearly, this is due to the globalized world, internet trade, Amazon, Ebay etc... I benefit from it, students benefit from it. Local booksellers disappear).

By writing seminar papers, student research projects etc... you have to read several books, compare opinions, knowledge levels. This makes studying. The entry into topics by professors and lecturers is often very good at my university. As a guitar teacher, he can show you a lot, but you have to practice for hours and hours, on your own.

The optimism about the future of our overpopulated and exploited planet is just a lack of information. You learn more about that by reading serious books, not by watching Science Fiction movies. Nevertheless, I still see no end of the world in the coming decades. But changes and challenges (that have always existed in the world, and but of another kind, in different degree).

A point of life? Anyone can have one! And without religion. There is much to do. The question is, how much do you strive for a point of life? Some do not have to look far. If you do not belong to them, what do you do to get your point(s) of life?

[snake]

Yes, someone opens up a question for debate and all you can offer is sarcasm. I bet you felt very smug when you typed your utterly witless, unoriginal and generic response.

Actually, strike that, I didn't know you were just a young boy. But still, that doesn't grant you license to go around mocking people.

Relax dude. I was just joking.

In my opinion, life doesn't have a point. I just try to make the best of it.

[Davetello]

Relax dude. I was just joking.

In my opinion, life doesn't have a point. I just try to make the best of it.

I know that now. I was just riled at the time due to goings on elsewhere. I also didn't know your age. Your youth makes the sarcasm far more forgiveable, as we were all like that as pre-teens.

Apologies young man.

As for your second paragraph - you should probably stay away from threads like this. You're way too young to be affected by this sort of thing. Enjoy your childhood and don't worry about this nonsense.

[Davetello]

Yes, it is true and at the same time obvious. I study Social Science here in Germany (state university, without significant costs). Lectures and seminars at University of Applied Sciences are mostly a very good introduction and motivation. Depending on how deep you want to understand topics, you have to study at leisure, reading books. And there are excellent books that convey knowledge and are partially super cheap (clearly, this is due to the globalized world, internet trade, Amazon, Ebay etc... I benefit from it, students benefit from it. Local booksellers disappear).

By writing seminar papers, student research projects etc... you have to read several books, compare opinions, knowledge levels. This makes studying. The entry into topics by professors and lecturers is often very good at my university. As a guitar teacher, he can show you a lot, but you have to practice for hours and hours, on your own.

The optimism about the future of our overpopulated and exploited planet is just a lack of information. You learn more about that by reading serious books, not by watching Science Fiction movies. Nevertheless, I still see no end of the world in the coming decades. But changes and challenges (that have always existed in the world, and but of another kind, in different degree).

A point of life? Anyone can have one! And without religion. There is much to do. The question is, how much do you strive for a point of life? Some do not have to look far. If you do not belong to them, what do you do to get your point(s) of life?


Yeah, all of that is very true. I study/studied social sciences also.

Yeah, Cubed takes too much of entertainment and applies it to the real world - it doesn't often work that way. There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

Yeah, life is what you make of it I guess. I'm glad some people don't think about this sort of thing - I envy that as it's probably the easiest way to live.

[Redeemer]

Yeah, all of that is very true. I study/studies social sciences also.

Yeah, Cubed takes too much of entertainment and applies it to the real world - it doesn't often work that way. There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that we will the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

Yeah, life is what you make of it I guess. I'm glad some people don't think about this sort of thing - I envy that as it's probably the easiest way to live.

Nature tends to have a way of balancing itself out.
I believe this life is a product of intelligent design, not one of coincidence
To have a such pessimistic out look to life is truly frightening, I hope you do not contemplate on this daily. If you only look and live in the future and not the moment than life will pass you buy.

[Davetello]

Nature tends to have a way of balancing itself out.
I believe this life is a product of intelligent design, not one of coincidence
To have a such pessimistic out look to life is truly frightening, I hope you do not contemplate on this daily. If you only look and live in the future and not the moment than life will pass you buy.

Fair enough, that's a clever way to look at it. If you view life as intended, then it becomes easier to find meaning. It's like Donnie in Secret of the Ooze - he was distressed when he found out the ooze was a mistake, that the turtles weren't planned. He was troubled by the fact that their existence wasn't something which had been desired - that they weren't 'special', as he says.

I've always felt this way, but when I was younger I didn't understand what I was feeling, and I didn't have enough experience or education to truly comprehend what was going on. I'm not sure whether that was better or worse - it was more confusing, but also less frightening as I wasn't so aware. Now, I just live with it, really. People know I don't find much joy in life, and it's not pleasurable but what can I do? I lack the mental fortitude for suicide so I have to struggle with these feelings. To be fair it's not something which gets to me all day, every day. I can find moments of escape, but it's always in the back of my mind, and sometimes at the forefront.

It's just life. Existential crises happen to people. Some people have been complimentary towards me and what they perceive to be my qualities, and they tell me I shouldn't feel this way. But they can't understand that this isn't about me or what qualities I may or may not possess. It's just an emptiness in terms of existence. I'd be the same regardless of my environment/marital status/wealth/career etc. It's something within and nothing external can solve it.

[Metalwolf]

There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

But that's assuming things always progress in the same trajectory forever, which isn't necessarily true in nature. Populations, even human populations, eventually reach a stable point if allowed to grow, with very little increase or decrease in numbers. This is one the predictions that some scientists have reached, based on their knowledge of other organisms. Plus some places are actually featuring a decrease like Japan, it seems that technology and the tendency to instill heavy gender roles for women once married makes marriage and babies unattractive for many younger folks, allowing a population decrease.

The problem is with population in many places (and I'm not talking about Africa in this case) is that government actively rewards people for having babies. Payments, bonuses, tax decreases, and in poor people's case, benefits for them. This encourages people to have babies who otherwise would have held off or kept them to a minimum (especially with birth control.) Take those away, and the number of babies born (and thus humans) will fall.

[Coola Yagami]

There's no real point to it. I mean unless you're the next thing that creates the next step of modern technology or otherwise helped shaped the world, you're gonna die a nobody. And even then... who can name the guy that invented the iphone? And without googling it. And who can name the dude that invented google?

And even so, eventually this planet is going down. Once that meteor or whatever hits, we're all gonna become some forgotten memory. For all we have accomplished and all we think we did.... all we're gonna be is some footnote on some alien's history class.

"And there was planet Earth... psssh... that didn't last long. Now moving on...'

[Davetello]

But that's assuming things always progress in the same trajectory forever, which isn't necessarily true in nature. Populations, even human populations, eventually reach a stable point if allowed to grow, with very little increase or decrease in numbers. This is one the predictions that some scientists have reached, based on their knowledge of other organisms. Plus some places are actually featuring a decrease like Japan, it seems that technology and the tendency to instill heavy gender roles for women once married makes marriage and babies unattractive for many younger folks, allowing a population decrease.

The problem is with population in many places (and I'm not talking about Africa in this case) is that government actively rewards people for having babies. Payments, bonuses, tax decreases, and in poor people's case, benefits for them. This encourages people to have babies who otherwise would have held off or kept them to a minimum (especially with birth control.) Take those away, and the number of babies born (and thus humans) will fall.

Those are all fair points. But with medical advancement (as stated not as strong as technological advancement, but still significant) people are living longer, and there isn't enough in place to deter people from having babies - quite the opposite as you suggest. World population has been rising as the centuries pass - the key is to slow the rate of increase down. I'm not sure that will happen though.

Even if it does, the finite resources are probably the bigger issue.

There's no real point to it. I mean unless you're the next thing that creates the next step of modern technology or otherwise helped shaped the world, you're gonna die a nobody. And even then... who can name the guy that invented the iphone? And without googling it. And who can name the dude that invented google?

And even so, eventually this planet is going down. Once that meteor or whatever hits, we're all gonna become some forgotten memory. For all we have accomplished and all we think we did.... all we're gonna be is some footnote on some alien's history class.

"And there was planet Earth... psssh... that didn't last long. Now moving on...'

Exactly. I think about this often. Some people will be remembered for what they've done, but others will be forgotten within generations, because they might have done something important to help others but it will never be publicised so they won't be remembered. I don't particularly want anyone to remember me anyway, but there is a sense of loss there - the notion that no matter what you set out to do, it will all ultimately be for nothing anyway - no legacy. I wonder if our ancestors ever pondered this - probably not to the same scale as naturally it was a less enlightened time, pound for pound.

That's it. Eventually humanity will cease to exist and ALL humans will be forgotten, as well as any 'accomplishments', so what's the point really? We are just a ticking time bomb. I guess some will argue that that time bomb will go off long after our generation is gone, so we might as well not think about it. There's no right or wrong answer.

[Coola Yagami]

That's it. Eventually humanity will cease to exist and ALL humans will be forgotten, as well as any 'accomplishments', so what's the point really? We are just a ticking time bomb. I guess some will argue that that time bomb will go off long after our generation is gone, so we might as well not think about it. There's no right or wrong answer.

I know it's wrong to think this way... but you can't stop it from being true. I know eventually the world is going to end, or the sun will burn out. Or some war will end it all. But chances are, unless they come up with some life-extending miracle drug like... NOW.... I won't live long enough to see it. So I kinda don't care and keep moving on with my own life.

And that is a bit of the problem with everyone and why us as a human race will wipe ourselves out sooner than later. Noone really cares about the future that will happen way beyond their lifetime. That's stuff left for their great grandchildren to deal with. And they'll look back in history and curse our negligence as that giant Omega-A-Bomb Mark 5 is about to land.

[Davetello]

I know it's wrong to think this way... but you can't stop it from being true. I know eventually the world is going to end, or the sun will burn out. Or some war will end it all. But chances are, unless they come up with some life-extending miracle drug like... NOW.... I won't live long enough to see it. So I kinda don't care and keep moving on with my own life.

And that is a bit of the problem with everyone and why us as a human race will wipe ourselves out sooner than later. Noone really cares about the future that will happen way beyond their lifetime. That's stuff left for their great grandchildren to deal with. And they'll look back in history and curse our negligence as that giant Omega-A-Bomb Mark 5 is about to land.

Life-extending drugs eh? I can think of nothing worse than living for hundreds of years. Or even worse, being immortal - even able to survive the impending apocalypse. That would be my worst nightmare.

Precisely. Nobody gives a toss about the legacy we are leaving for future generations - it's all about the here and now and it's a generation far into the future who will have to deal with the eventual fallout. In light of that procreation should probably be banned, but how could you ever enforce something like that? :lol:

[CyberCubed]

We'll be remembered like the dinosaurs were since we will have fossilized remains.

[Davetello]

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's a healthy mindset. True, we don't need to exist, but we do; and within the pile of sh!t that is life, there is the occasional gem that pops up if we try hard enough to find it. Don't dwell too much on the fact that we're a waste; it's a fact, but spending too much time pondering on it is a waste in itself - because we know it's true, so why analyze it more than we need to?

Maybe it would be best for humanity to die out. But that completely lacks predictability and is beyond our control, so we shouldn't spend too much time thinking on that logic either. That's why distractions are so great; they help us forget about all that until our time comes. And "distractions" isn't the best term for it because that makes it sound negative; the truth is that without them, we'd literally do nothing for our entire lives, which would make our existence just as pointless as it already is. So might as well find something to do with ourselves while we're here.

Yeah, it's like I always say - surgeons and doctors save lives, but there would be no point in them saving our lives if we didn't at least have interests (you're right that 'distractions' carries a negative connotation).

Where is the line drawn? Where do we find a balance between acknowledging that life has no intrinsic value but trying our best to make the most of it anyway? Is it really living if we have the make the best of it? It just seems forced - a lie to get us through the days.

[Davetello]

We'll be remembered like the dinosaurs were since we will have fossilized remains.

Not if the planet is destroyed too. Face it, unless we can develop quicky enough to colonise those worlds you speak of, we and this planet will probably cease to exist.

[Mega Man]

If you think about it from a nihilistic point of view, existence is utterly meaningless and has no intrinsic value. The core reason for life seems to be to procreate and 'continue the species', but what is it that we're actually continuing? What's the point of humanity going on just for its own sake? Particularly when so many humans tend to be very scummy people? Apparently we are here to foster relationships with friends and family members, but most people don't even like each other anyway.

We've become a sentient species, and we are capable of fantastic things. But much of our energies seem wasted - what's really the point of building skyscrapers which rise thousands of feet into the air? What's the point in running around a field or a court kicking or throwing a ball? Is watching films really of any substantial merit?

Despite my comments on how meaningful I find the turtles, it certainly isn't of a high enough level for me to consider it a counter-argument to wiping out our species. If an asteroid was due to hit Earth and send us the way of the dinosaurs, it would probably be for the best. I'd feel pretty relieved, to be honest. We've destroyed this beautiful planet, and we treat each other with absolute contempt - the social stratification which is a major part of our societies is actually unforgivable, and calls into question the claim that we are an enlightened species. There's something highly repugnant about living in a society where some people can't afford to eat or drink, but others live in mansions composing of sixty empty rooms. It truly is reprehensible.

I enjoy things day to day on a micro level, but on a macro level I know this world will always be rotten. In a sense I really can't wait until I hit my 70s or 80s and expire (assuming I don't die before then). I don't really believe in religion or an afterlife so that will be it for me, and I won't have to think about the absolute fcking state of this planet economically, socially or environmentally. And I won't have to feel dislike for my fellow man and woman.

I realise this is a fairly heavy thread, but what is the actual point? Why do we even exist?

People who make comments like I have here are derided as crazy or deeply troubled - their arguments are overlooked and the focus is turned on to their psychological well-being. And, somewhat ironically, that's yet another reason I have a problem with humanity and hope we are eliminated.

No offense, but I think you need to go to a mental hospital. Your post reminds me of that guy who went on a rampage in California.

Seriously, I'm not being mean, but that is a very sad post that you wrote and you need help.

If you're having these kinds of thoughts, and feel that you need to share them with people on a message board about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles of all places, then seriously you need mental help.

I think a psychiatrist would greatly help you.

Think about it. You are on a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan website. Most people here are probably out of their mind, myself included.

In fact, I have better things to do with my life, and this topic you created has given me a reality check. This is a mental illness, and I'm leaving this website now.

Sorry if I seem like a douche.

Bye, I'm going to live my life like a normal person now, instead of spending time and effort on this website.

[Davetello]

No offense, but I think you need to go to a mental hospital. Your post reminds me of that guy who went on a rampage in California.

Seriously, I'm not being mean, but that is a very sad post that you wrote and you need help.

If you're having these kinds of thoughts, and feel that you need to share them with people on a message board about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles of all places, then seriously you need mental help.

I think a psychiatrist would greatly help you.

Think about it. You are on a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan website. Most people here are probably out of their mind, myself included.

In fact, I have better things to do with my life, and this topic you created has given me a reality check. This is a mental illness, and I'm leaving this website now.

Sorry if I seem like a douche.

Bye, I'm going to live my life like a normal person now, instead of spending time and effort on this website.

Thanks for telling me that I might have mental health issues. It's a revelation to me. I'd also never considered that talking about this subject might be out of place on a comic book forum (lol).

Oh well. Cya then :)

[Leo656]

I feel ya, Dave. You and I think a lot alike about certain things. Fact is, more often than not, I'm rooting for that catastrophe that's going to wipe us out. George Carlin said something once that summed up almost perfectly how I feel about it (a lot of somethings, actually, but just to keep it specific). In one of his books, he said something to the effect of, "I don't consider myself part of your so-called 'human race'. I treasure and cherish individual people as I meet them, but on the whole, most people are horrible... and if by some stroke of luck you manage to figure it all out for yourselves one day and get the world back on track? Congratulations... I still don't want to be involved in it." He was another one who often pointed out just how much is fundamentally wrong with "existence" as we know it, and that instead of actually Fixing anything - because that involves effort and sacrifice and lack of leisure, and nobody can handle that - we simply persist and endure, while things get slowly worse while we distract ourselves with shinier toys and faster technology. Meanwhile, nobody's made any significant progress towards feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, curing terminal illnesses, in decades. Because who cares, we have Netflix, yo! As long as we keep ourselves distracted, someone else will surely fix all that stuff.

I ponder the same thing you currently are all the time. Always have. Unless there is a higher power, I don't see a point to any of this. And if there is a higher power, I don't know if that makes it any better or worse. Because that means people suffer on purpose, and I'd have a hard time getting behind any Powers-That-Be that has "Your Sh*tty Life Is All Part Of My Plan" on their platform. But on the flip side, if there's nothing on the other side at all, then why are we even here? Why bother? Because "Life Is A Gift"? Not for everyone. For me, the common denominator is always the starving babies in Africa. People always say "Life is what you make of it, you just have to Be Positive and take steps to Better Yourself." My response is always, "Tell some kid born with AIDS who's dying of dehydration and starvation to just 'Positive Think' himself a chicken sandwich and see how much better his life improves immediately." We tell ourselves, "Life is what you make it, all you gotta do is Try", because deep down, we don't even want to consider the truth: That a lot of people never will "Make It", their only function is as Human Debris, and it's simply a matter of circumstances, like where you were born, how rich or poor your country of origin is, how well-off your parents are, etc. There really are only a very, very small number of variables in life that we ourselves can control, which is why so many people feel as though they're in a hopeless situation.

I, personally, ponder a lot but have no answers. I do know that if it all got wiped out tomorrow, I wouldn't feel too bad about it. We had a run, we got some stuff done, and we had a few laughs. That's really the best we were ever gonna do. If nothing else, I think the end of the world would be pretty awesome as far as spectacle goes. I mean, you wouldn't likely get to see much, but what you did see would be epic on a scale never before seen by human eyes. That's kinda neat.

I just try not to think about it too much. I still have stuff I wanna do, and that's the main reason I'm able to get through the bad days when they pop up. But since so many of us exist that way - distracting ourselves with minutiae and pop culture and simply ignoring our Real Problems until they either solve themselves or get trumped by something bigger - it's kind of hard to see things in the world getting actively "Better", and I do think that's a problem.

I'unno. Sounds like you're possibly goin' through a patch. Chin up buddy.

[Davetello]

Thanks. I can't reply in full right now, but I will in a while. I wanted to say though that I too have pictured the end of the world, the apocalypse or that asteroid hitting. And as well as being epic, it would probably be the closest humanity has ever been. There would be panic, but I think eventually most people would turn to one another for comfort. And isn't that the ultimate of tragedies and ironies? Millennia of conflict between our own species, and it takes our demise to bring us together.

[Mega Man]

My last post before I leave, I want to share this:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1349043#post1349043

[Redeemer]

Fair enough, that's a clever way to look at it. If you view life as intended, then it becomes easier to find meaning. It's like Donnie in Secret of the Ooze - he was distressed when he found out the ooze was a mistake, that the turtles weren't planned. He was troubled by the fact that their existence wasn't something which had been desired - that they weren't 'special', as he says.

I've always felt this way, but when I was younger I didn't understand what I was feeling, and I didn't have enough experience or education to truly comprehend what was going on. I'm not sure whether that was better or worse - it was more confusing, but also less frightening as I wasn't so aware. Now, I just live with it, really. People know I don't find much joy in life, and it's not pleasurable but what can I do? I lack the mental fortitude for suicide so I have to struggle with these feelings. To be fair it's not something which gets to me all day, every day. I can find moments of escape, but it's always in the back of my mind, and sometimes at the forefront.

It's just life. Existential crises happen to people. Some people have been complimentary towards me and what they perceive to be my qualities, and they tell me I shouldn't feel this way. But they can't understand that this isn't about me or what qualities I may or may not possess. It's just an emptiness in terms of existence. I'd be the same regardless of my environment/marital status/wealth/career etc. It's something within and nothing external can solve it.

It sounds like you have some sort of Depression disorder. This can range from Depression itself to different variations of chemical imbalance. Mega Man is right and you should seek Professional Help. How long have you felt like this????

Always remember this Life is a gift and is precious, enjoy it for what it is.

[Netkeeper]

As someone else that suffers depression, existential crises and questioning the point of life is really common and can seriously lead to suicidal thought if it hasn't already.

However, I'm not here to tell you to seek help because not everyone can afford that luxury keeping yourself from harming yourself is a luxury?] and I know this too well because I can't. I've known I've had depression, on and off, since I was around 12 years old. I even know exactly what the causes were.

It doesn't make a lick of difference, though, and I often question why I even go through so much myself -- why I'm working so hard to attain this ultimate goal of curing myself just so I can be apart of regular society -- when all that will accomplish is becoming a functional human being. It won't solve the problem of "what'll I do for the rest of my life" or what my next "ultimate goal" will be.

My only real advice is to just find something to keep your mind off it, and I know this is not workable for everyone. I'm naturally unintelligent, I have disabilities, so I can usually shove something out of my mind if I don't want it there. But if you've got a higher IQ or inclination towards knowledge, I'm not really sure what to say, because my brain doesn't work like that. As long as it's occupied with something else, the bad thoughts can stay away.

[CyberCubed]

I don't get it, are you guys really all depressed all the time? Unless you guys are living in poverty, there is still life worth living for. You have your family, the things you enjoy like TV shows/videogames/movies, etc. to keep your interests in.

[Prowler]

Think about it. You are on a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fan website. Most people here are probably out of their mind, myself included.

In fact, I have better things to do with my life, and this topic you created has given me a reality check. This is a mental illness, and I'm leaving this website now.

Sorry if I seem like a douche.

Bye, I'm going to live my life like a normal person now, instead of spending time and effort on this website.
This sounds like a troll/joke post.

[Netkeeper]

I don't get it, are you guys really all depressed all the time? Unless you guys are living in poverty, there is still life worth living for. You have your family, the things you enjoy like TV shows/videogames/movies, etc. to keep your interests in.
Most depressed people aren't depressed 24/7, no. It's just the clinical name for the term also being the same as the name of an emotion that throws people off. But it is difficult to function normally when you have depression because chemical imbalances in your brain make it difficult to actually experience pleasure. It also lowers motivation. Having things to keep our interests doesn't always work because of that. There are times where I derive pleasure from absolutely nothing at all. Even things I love I don't want anything to do with.

While it's common for people with depression to realise there are things worth living for, it's just not easy and in some cases impossible to actually feel it. It's a mental condition, therefore people with it don't think straight.

[Katie]

The meaning of life is subjective to each individual.

I personally am on a quest to make something big out of my self, having stareted with nothing. It's very personally satisfying to be financially successful, stable, and independent after being born very poor.

From that, I make donations and support people who were in my same position. If I've impacted someone in a way that their life is bette and they can be in a position to help someone else, my legacy is secure and I'm happy.

If the world was to end tomorrow, i'd be satisfied with my life. I don't care if anything macro was impacted by my life or the life of other humans. All we can do is do the best we can in our own time.


To be in an exestential crisis such that you believe nothing you do matters smacks of giving up. Its a shame. That definitely makes a life not worth living.

[XERO]

I like being alive. I rather not be dead right now, if I can keep it that way. I got too many things I still want to accomplish.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Is there a meaning to life? I suppose that depends on what you want out of it, or rather, what you feel is "worthwhile". Some ascribe meaning to their faith and/or beliefs, their family, accomplishments, or having loved ones who care for them in return. For some, that is enough. Others need a sense that their is an ultimate "purpose" for being here at all, a feeling that they will be remembered or that their life has accomplished something useful or has a point of some sort.

My own personal thoughts are that whether we see a meaning or not, we make one as we go. My life is about as boring, mundane, and uninspiring as it gets, but I try to find things to make it endurable, and to find my own meaning in the world around me. Sometimes, it's the beauty and intricacies of nature, and seeing how it is all connected. My beliefs as a Wiccan are that all life is interwoven, that it is a web of energy and matter dancing in a never-ending pattern that humans can't even begin to comprehend, yet it has a beauty and order all its own, and sometimes we can catch a glimpse of it if we look hard enough. Life IS magic and harmony and balance, it is breath and spirit and earth and space and time. Whether we see a greater meaning in it or not, there IS a tapestry of order and chaos intertwined in this universe we live in. And maybe that's the point. We ARE our own meaning.

[Metalwolf]

As someone else that suffers depression, existential crises and questioning the point of life is really common and can seriously lead to suicidal thought if it hasn't already.

Agreed. Often I've seen 'There is no point to life' leads to 'There's no point in me living and suffering' which often ends up 'I'm gonna put a gun to my head and pull the trigger.'

One thing I notice is that these existential crises often involve wishing that other people bite the big one too (like through the asteroid mentioned here.) This is often over some perceived wrongdoing, that is either done to the person or involving the world at large. It never involves the idea of whether the other people might not want to be wiped out, it just treats them as a singular mass that is no longer worthy of living. Often it a thing of 'Life unworthy of life.'

[arkangel]

Davetello - I feel that you and I are kindred spirits, my friend (if indeed this phenomenon exists). Growing up Irish Catholic, I always felt a disconnect with religion and the concept of God and felt everything from jealousy to disdain for those that could so openly believe in a life thereafter from personal faith alone. As a very young, but deep introspective kid, I had long discussions with our Catholic priest (small town of 5k) and it never satisfied me long enough to find peace. As a logical, science minded individual, I would give everything I have to have strong faith and know that our existance has both meaning and will continue beyond this mortal coil, but 42 years of life has left me no closer to that omnipotent answer than anyone else.
What I can tell you is that the birth of my children were defining moments, where I actually felt a selfish pang of guilt for even considering that there couldn't be some purpose beyond what we are presently aware of.
While I cannot offer you something I don't have (unshakable faith), I will share 2 experiences I've had that give me some hope that we may not simply disappear into non-existance (a thought that absolutely terrifies me despite my hipocritical drinking, smoking and plethera of bad habits and life style choices)
1) As a psychiatric nursing student in my young 20s, we were allowed to pick up shifts on the psych ward while going to school. For a few weeks, I picked up some nightshifts as well as going to school in the day. After 3 days of this, I was so exhausted, I came home to my apartment and immediately crashed on the couch (nursing student gf was working an evening shift and I was alone) While asleep, my mind awoke to the sounds of someone quietly walking around my apartment, and I couldn't remember if I locked the door. Fear overwhelmed me as I realized my mind was awake but my body was comatose. I couldn't move a finger or force my eyes open to see. With all the strength I could muster, I PULLED myself up to a sitting position and from this perspective could see that my actual body was still laying flat on my back. It was the only outer body experience I've ever had but believe to this day it was real. Btw, no one was in the apartment. I'm just a chicken **** to sleep when no one's home.
2) Working on a palliative care unit, we had an elderly lady dying that was in her later stages of dementia. Her husband was a beautiful man that came to the nursing home twice a day religiously to feed her and talk to her and help out with other patients as a volunteer (an absolutely beautiful, dedicated giving man). Unfortunately he became extremely ill and was hospitalized when his wife was near death and the nursing staff took turns spending time with her as the inevitable drew near. The 4 hrs leading up to her passing, it was only her and myself in the room and she was actually comforting ME to not be afraid and that everything was according to God's plan for us. I remember holding her hand as she slept and had nodded off myself in the peace and quiet of her company. Then...... I FELT HER DIE. I literally felt her spirit pass through MY CHEST and awoke to a feeling of that I'm not sure I can do justice with words. It was like she gave me a gift of peace and elation and love all at once and I immediately started crying tears of joy for reasons I can't explain to this day. And then she was gone....
I don't know the purpose of life and what comes after my friend, but I do find comfort in the fact that this is a journey and a mystery we share. All of us.
An old man told me once that the only purpose in life is to love and be loved in return and that this is the ONLY purpose. I'm satisfied with this and the science minded me just wants to know that there is a sense of consciousness and a perspective of "me" that continues to appreciate this after I leave this world. Thanks for having the courage, fearlessness and conviction to bare your soul and post a thread of this nature. It's actually very comforting to know that there are other people that share the same fears and questions and let's me know that I'm not alone with such thoughts. You and I are bros. :)

[arkangel]

Another story of interest I'd like to share..

2 separate atheist scientists in two completely different fields of study came to the same inevitable conclusion that it is statistically impossible that we exist by random chance. One of the scientists was a physicist/astronomer. The other was a geneticist. One, a world renown specialist in the macrocosm. The other the micocosm.
The first scientist discerned that it's not just improbable, but statistically impossible that all of the necessary factors needed for life could have occurred naturally and that there was no other conclusion except for the glaringly obvious... that we are here by "design". That there is a "grand designer", a higher power that had to have created us, whatever that power may be.
The famous geneticist came to a similar conclusion that life to have been created randomly was such a remote possiblity that there had to be a "grand designer" as well. I'll try and find the article, but it's very interesting and aspiring that both of these people basically found God or at the very least came to believe strongly that there had to be "intent" in our creation and intent means an intelligence beyond our present awareness. This is definitely something worthy of contemplation for us faithless. :)

[Storm Eagle]

I don't get it, are you guys really all depressed all the time? Unless you guys are living in poverty, there is still life worth living for. You have your family, the things you enjoy like TV shows/videogames/movies, etc. to keep your interests in.

Strangely enough, I think it's little things like those that kept me from offing myself when going through tough times. Especially in high school.

I like being alive. I rather not be dead right now, if I can keep it that way. I got too many things I still want to accomplish.

That reminds me of something I read in The Outsiders.

[BubblyShell22]

Dave, it's common to have these doubts and these questions. I can't provide a concrete answer as I don't know myself. Yes, life sucks sometimes and sometimes it may feel that life isn't worth living. But for me, I just live life one day at a time and do whatever I can to hold onto things. I don't believe in God or anything like that, and I really don't care whether God exists or not. I hate the idea of us being part of some "grand design" as if we're nothing more than puppets for some god to control as if we have no say in the matter. I like the idea better that we have the ability and the free will to choose our own lives by the choices we make. Yeah, sometimes there are obstacles that happen beyond our control, and it's sometimes hard to get through them, but we do the best we can or at least I do. I just do my best to be thankful for what I have and try to remember all that I've accomplished in my life. I don't care what happens to me after I die. All I care about is how I die, and I don't want to suffer too much when the time comes. I hope things get better for you, but the best advice I can give you is to keep your chin up and know that people here care about you, and that's all you need.

[XERO]

That reminds me of something I read in The Outsiders.

It's my favorite book, actually.

[Storm Eagle]

It's my favorite book, actually.

Then you have an idea as to what I'm talking about, yes?

[Commenter 42]

That was a long 4 pages...

I'm going to steer clear of any of the religious nonsense posted earlier (sorry but that's as nice a way of saying it as possible, if you disagree, PM me, 'cause this thread is important), and add my two cents.

Like many here, I'm right where Dave is, philosophically speaking, in my personal view of life.

But unlike so many, I don't think he's depressed, or has anything wrong with him..,on the contrary, I think he's simply saying, what we all know.

And to what avail? Either he should distract himself, find peace with one deity or another, or seek mental help.

Like hell. Dave isn't wrong, and most of us seem to know it. We can all agree that things aren't quite right, but instead of investigating the problem, we talk about bandaid solutions.

Dave, I agree with you; of course there isn't any point to life, other than the fact that, you happen to have one.

And I don't know what you should do with it, and maybe neither do you, but i know this: at the moment, most of my body works, but for a short time this year, some of it stopped working. Without warning, parts of me began to fail. loseing any of the 5 senses is scarey, trust me, but then again, it's easy to tell some one that, and until it happens to you, you don't know the terror.

It gave me pause.

At first, you ask yourself, "why me" but then slowly it dawns on you:"why not me?" then the inevitable "of course me." Because, it will happen, gradually or at at once... but at some point, we lose everything.

But that isn't the point, of course. It's not the sentiment that some kind of life is better than nothing. It's just not true that one counters the other. people suck, and death sucks. So what do you do?

For me, it's the realizing that there is no point, no afterlife, no almighty judge, no someday, or tomorrow.

I have freedom to explore this place called earth, and emote in a million different directions, sleep, eat, dance or sing my face off. I can choose to pee in the shower, or pee out the window (not advisable BTW). I can do almost anything, and that's really awesome.

At the moment, I choosing to write this to you. After that, I'm off to help at an animal shelter. Maybe later I'll have a salad.

As someone said earlier, the likelihood that we exist at all is next to impossible. Existence itself is really awesome, even if you share that existence with a bunch of jerks. :)

[Gunpowder]

Yeah, it's like I always say - surgeons and doctors save lives, but there would be no point in them saving our lives if we didn't at least have interests (you're right that 'distractions' carries a negative connotation).

Where is the line drawn? Where do we find a balance between acknowledging that life has no intrinsic value but trying our best to make the most of it anyway? Is it really living if we have the make the best of it? It just seems forced - a lie to get us through the days.

But that's just it. We don't "have" to do anything, and nothing is "forced." That's why you have the ability to think this way and post a thread analyzing it. Although, I think your point of view here is interesting, i.e. lying to ourselves that we absolutely must make the best of life or else we're wasting it. Frankly, I can't come up with a solid argument against that. But I don't like to think of it as "lying" necessarily - just an inclination to spend time doing things that brings ourselves joy.

Like many here, I'm right where Dave is, philosophically speaking, in my personal view of life.

But unlike so many, I don't think he's depressed, or has anything wrong with him..,on the contrary, I think he's simply saying, what we all know.

And to what avail? Either he should distract himself, find peace with one deity or another, or seek mental help.

Like hell. Dave isn't wrong, and most of us seem to know it. We can all agree that things aren't quite right, but instead of investigating the problem, we talk about bandaid solutions.

Exactly. I find it truly amusing that people responded to his initial post in exactly the way he predicted: telling him to seek mental help, etc. He's just a nihilistic realist, is all. Doesn't mean he's depressed.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, exactly. I'm a realist myself, and many people tell me I should be more positive or have faith that things will turn out better. Sorry, I don't have faith in anything anymore nor should I have faith because there's no guarantee that it will get better. As far as I'm concerned, we just live one day at a time and try to get through the obstacles life offers us, but it does suck and it does make one feel that there's no point to life. We don't live in a perfect society, and we never will. That's a fact. People get mad at me for not believing in God, but my philosophy is that if God was real, we wouldn't have all of the hardships we have now and horrible diseases that have no cure to them. If Jesus really did cure a blind man with a mixture of spit and mud, why the hell do we have diseases like cancer, AIDS, and ALS that have no cure and probably won't have a cure ever? Makes no sense.

People get mad at me that I don't vote, but my philosophy on that is why should I sit in a booth and vote for two people who really don't give two sh*ts about my life and what's going on in it? It's pointless. That's the type of realist I am, and if people don't like what I have to say, too bad. You can say I'm mental, you can say I need help, but in reality, I don't. I'm being realistic and if that's a crime, then throw me in jail.

[tmnt transformer]

Yes, exactly. I'm a realist myself, and many people tell me I should be more positive or have faith that things will turn out better. Sorry, I don't have faith in anything anymore nor should I have faith because there's no guarantee that it will get better. As far as I'm concerned, we just live one day at a time and try to get through the obstacles life offers us, but it does suck and it does make one feel that there's no point to life. We don't live in a perfect society, and we never will. That's a fact. People get mad at me for not believing in God, but my philosophy is that if God was real, we wouldn't have all of the hardships we have now and horrible diseases that have no cure to them. If Jesus really did cure a blind man with a mixture of spit and mud, why the hell do we have diseases like cancer, AIDS, and ALS that have no cure and probably won't have a cure ever? Makes no sense.

People get mad at me that I don't vote, but my philosophy on that is why should I sit in a booth and vote for two people who really don't give two sh*ts about my life and what's going on in it? It's pointless. That's the type of realist I am, and if people don't like what I have to say, too bad. You can say I'm mental, you can say I need help, but in reality, I don't. I'm being realistic and if that's a crime, then throw me in jail.

Diseases are a cause of man's turning away from God. Jesus was able to cure the blind man because he is God as well as his son. If you believe it or not, Jesus will return, and Judge all. Unless you repent and be Baptized, you cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Powder]

Take the religious stuff outta here, it's not permitted.

[arkangel]

I don't believe in God or anything like that, and I really don't care whether God exists or not. I hate the idea of us being part of some "grand design" as if we're nothing more than puppets for some god to control as if we have no say in the matter. I like the idea better that we have the ability and the free will to choose our own lives by the choices we make. I just do my best to be thankful for what I have and try to remember all that I've accomplished in my life. I don't care what happens to me after I die.

Are you quoting me? If so, please make sure you take the time to read and understand what I'm saying before hand. Being part of a grand design doesn't mean you're anyone's puppet and having free will to choose our own lives is a f'n given. As for you being thankful, if you're an atheist, exactly who are you being thankful to? Been on this earth 31 years and have it all figured out eh?

[tmntpower1988]

My mother is religious she gets annoyed when I tell her that I don't believe God exists. She tells me that if I don't start believing in him I'll not get into Heaven :lol: :lol: :lol: Imo I think it's a pile of sh*t tbh Angels, demons, some all powerful being. Sounds like a fairytale tbh

[Machias Banshee]

Religion discussion/bashing is not allowed here, how many times must this be said?