Do you like Irma's identity reveal (WARNING: MAJOR SPOILER from The Invasion)

[evan2000]

Alright, it's poll time! Please leave your vote if you liked, hated or felt neutral about Irma being Kraang sub-prime all the time.

[Shark_Blade]

Where's the poll? ...

[evan2000]

Where's the poll? ...
Just got it set up!

[Jester]

I am certainly hoping that they replaced Irma rather than just created her.

[MaximeLoonatic]

Irma is out there in the caos of the city

[Wretched Reptile]

I absolutely hated it, so I voted that accordingly. And while I'd love for Irma to end up being alive and well, having been slyly replaced by the Kraang somewhere along the way, something tells me it's just not going to happen and the character has been dropped going forward. Just my feeling. Hope I'm wrong though!

[ssjup81]

I didn't hate it, and thought it was a nice homage to the OT, but I do feel there's a real Irma out there someplace for reasons I mentioned elsewhere and strongly feel she was kidnapped and replaced at some point after the second Rat King ep.

[drgon78]

the truth is out there.:lol:

[Shark_Blade]

I STILL BELIEVE

she's out there somewhere..

[ssjup81]

the truth is out there.:lol:*cues the XFiles theme* :-P

[RandomtasticFantasy]

Downward spiral for me emotionally: at first I was honestly neutral. Then I watched the season finale a couple more times and found myself getting more annoyed by it. Just so much that could have been potentially done.

I seriously hope Irma is real and got replaced, but I'm thinking with how the reveal was handled, that's it for her character. If so: ugh.

[Mukouno]

Screw the imposter, I'll never give up hope! :cry:

[hypnock]

I think she's still somewhere else.

But if it's real Irma, I hate it. :x

[Aaronardo]

I honestly don't see how nobody saw it coming. She's always constantly trying to get April to say where/who the Turtles are. One could make an argument that the '87 Irma was the same way, but it was too a lesser extent. This Irma seemed to be pretty obsessed by the time this episode came around, so once she was, I wasn't thinking she was a Kraang, but I also wasn't thinking she was Irma.
(But I still do hope she's really out there somewhere. Maybe the Kraang got her and mutated her into Mona Lisa..?)

[snake]

Yes. It was a great twist.

[miru]

I hated that reveal, and I conveniently skipped it. For one thing, they had to take out one of three (or four if you count ICK) females who aren't mindless killing machines, ficticious, or long-dead. Second, it kinda came out of nowhere. Third, Irma was a pretty likable charactets. It worked with Pulverizer-> Mutagen Man as he was already an unlikable character and had already betrayed the Turtles for the Foot.

[BubblyShell22]

But he didn't betray the Turtles for the Foot. He was doing it to become a better ninja and didn't really know what the Foot was about. Then they got the idea to use him as a spy and it backfired on all of them in the end.

As for this, I voted for: Screw the imposter! The real Irma is out there somewhere.

[Warhorse]

I hated the whole plot and it was kind of asinine in my opinion. I chose that the real Irma is out there, but at the same time, I still hate the whole idea. This was nearly a jumping the shark moment for me, because it was just so forced.

[Xiewin]

I hated it.

I liked Irma as a character.

[Ninjinister]

It was bloody brilliant.

[Luckyday]

What I really want to know are how kids from nick.com think feel about this?

[Warhorse]

What I really want to know are how kids from nick.com think feel about this?

It's hard to gage. Right now, all there seems to be is chatting going on about which Turtle people are hot for! If it means anything, my little cousin who is 9 who watched the show yesterday with me hated it. But, she's what, 1 out how many kids watch Nick TMNT?

[TurtleTitan97]

One best plot twists I've ever seen in an animated series.

I kinda hope we don't get a cop-out by having a real Irma show up.

[miru]

One best plot twists I've ever seen in an animated series.

I kinda hope we don't get a cop-out by having a real Irma show up.

I would agree with you if they had revealed Mona Lisa, Ninjara, Aska, Angel, Venus and the like, but instead they have us those stupid Dream Beavers. Now I want to see a real Irma for the reasons I already mentioned.

[neatoman]

Maybe not like but I didn't care that much about Irma anyway. She seemed more like an easter egg for old fans, and not something they were building up to.

[ssjup81]

One best plot twists I've ever seen in an animated series.

I kinda hope we don't get a cop-out by having a real Irma show up.
I dunno, it still feels off. I still think she was replaced. It just doesn't make sense to me. How would they know to spy on April prior to knowing she was the one they wanted? Why show that she and April were friends before this as opposed to after?

If they wanted April so badly and the turtles, why didn't they do so? The Kraang could've killed two birds with one stone using Irma. They could've used Irma to lure April without the turtles even knowing. Kidnap her or have Kraangbot Irma knock her out. Get the DNA they need, perfect the mutagen, make an April Kraangbot, trick the turtles into taking her to the lair (like maybe use the T-Phone, call them up to do whatever and then accompany them back to the lair or either use Casey), boom attack the city and infiltrate the lair.

Since this wasn't the case, I still can't help but think she was replaced and that this tech was new.

[Warhorse]

I dunno, it still feels off. I still think she was replaced. It just doesn't make sense to me. How would they know to spy on April prior to knowing she was the one they wanted? Why show that she and April were friends before this as opposed to after?

If they wanted April so badly and the turtles, why didn't they do so? The Kraang could've killed two birds with one stone using Irma. They could've used Irma to lure April without the turtles even knowing. Kidnap her or have Kraangbot Irma knock her out. Get the DNA they need, perfect the mutagen, make an April Kraangbot, trick the turtles into taking her to the lair (like maybe use the T-Phone, call them up to do whatever and then accompany them back to the lair or either use Casey), boom attack the city and infiltrate the lair.

Since this wasn't the case, I still can't help but think she was replaced and that this tech was new.

Yep. Either this, or it's one gigantic, glaring plot hole!

I am personally thinking she was kidnapped just after Plan 10, since that was technology designed to swap Kraang minds with human minds. Obviously that plan was foiled, so now they had to resort to a back up plan, and kidnapping the first person closest to the Turtles was part of that plan. April and Casey are hard to get, Kirby is too unstable, so Irma was the next obvious choice, considering she's already been kidnapped before.

I still want to know what's up with Kirby though. My cousin last night noticed his eye glaring at everyone in the room too, she was like "what the heck is up with that? Yo, dude, that guy is hiding something!"

[IndigoErth]

I'll only dislike it in hindsight if there is no real Irma after this.

Surely even the Krang wouldn't put up with high school that long by choice? :lol:

[Mega Man]

I hate that Irma turned out to be a Kraang. Even when her robot head popped up, I thought at first it was just one of those cartoon over reaction moments, like when someone has fire in their eyes for a few seconds, or a bigger mouth. One of those cartoon moments..... but no, she did turn out to be a Kraang, and her character is ruined. I thought about this 2 part episode a lot when I was trying to go to sleep. This is worse than Shredder in the 2k3 series being an Utrom. I actually think Utrom Shredder is pretty cool, but this Kraang Irma is horrible. At least Kraang Subprime won't be coming back, at least I hope he doesn't.

I hope the real Irma is out there somewhere, but I don't believe that she is. If she is, then that fixes the situation.

[Warhorse]

What I really want to know are how kids from nick.com think feel about this?

Funny, someone on Nick started a thread for people to create an OC. There have been only 18 creations so far, but every single one is a female!

[Luckyday]

Funny, someone on Nick started a thread for people to create an OC. There have been only 18 creations so far, but every single one is a female!

Soooo it's not good then?:ohwell:

[travelingcat]

Didn't care at first, but looking back on previous episodes, it's sad thinking it's all an act. She's out there. Somewhere.

[Warhorse]

Soooo it's not good then?:ohwell:

I dunno. You have to take that place with a grain of salt. I'm getting this feeling that most of the posters over there are females/fangirls to begin with, so it's natural they are going to create somone they can relate to the most.

[Konchadunga]

But that brings us back to the question of why girls are in there doing that.

It's weird to me that while this show has done very little to cater to girls, they like it a lot. Maybe it's because the Turtles are done so cute, and act like genuine teens. Not sure, but given the female fans, it's obvious why OCs would be female.

I haven't followed; is there a canonized term for female TMNT fans, ala bronies?

Anyhow, I hated the twist, and I'm really not sure why the third option is there, as hope and expectations aren't necessarily the same thing, and in this show are very frequently different.

[CyberCubed]

I rewatched the Rat King episode, and the Irma in that episode really seemed like a human. If Irma in that episode was a Kraang she would have bust out on her own.

I think Irma was real and the Kraang kidnapped her mid-way through the season and replaced her.

[Warhorse]

But that brings us back to the question of why girls are in there doing that.

It's weird to me that while this show has done very little to cater to girls, they like it a lot. Maybe it's because the Turtles are done so cute, and act like genuine teens. Not sure, but given the female fans, it's obvious why OCs would be female.

I haven't followed; is there a canonized term for female TMNT fans, ala bronies?

Anyhow, I hated the twist, and I'm really not sure why the third option is there, as hope and expectations aren't necessarily the same thing, and in this show are very frequently different.

Well, TMNT has had female fans from the second it became a cartoon on CBS. Back then, it had four characters that females could fave from either personalities to head band colors, or even the weapons, and then with April and Irma almost always around, the atmosphere made it more inviting for girls to feel comfortable about getting into the show, as opposed to something like GI Joe. 2k3 show came just when the internet became really popular, and again, the Turtles could be relatable to either males or females, and with April and now Karai in the show, it also made it comfortable for girls to get into and enjoy. TMNT has not been one of those properties that is exclusively for boys. Even the comics had elements in it that females can enjoy, unlike certain Mark Millar trope. I would also assume, on Nick, tween and teen girls might be using the TMNT model in that they are outcasts, and build their own self esteem and self awareness in using the TMNT as a means to cope with real life struggles via fan fiction and OC.

[IndigoErth]

is there a canonized term for female TMNT fans, ala bronies?
Anyone even dares try to refer to me as such a thing, I'm borrowing the real life Pizza Thrower, loading it up with frozen pizzas, the largest it will take, and then we're gonna have some target practice. :evilgrin:


I could see some term happening if female fans were something new to it, the way male fans of the ponies are, but TMNT has always appealed to girls, without having to take predictable measures to draw them in.

[travelingcat]

I'll join you in that target practice.

[Warhorse]

But that brings us back to the question of why girls are in there doing that.

It's weird to me that while this show has done very little to cater to girls, they like it a lot. Maybe it's because the Turtles are done so cute, and act like genuine teens. Not sure, but given the female fans, it's obvious why OCs would be female.
.

And I just want to know, in your mind, what would a show be like that does cater to girls? I always saw TMNT as something for everyone, males, females, from all walks of life and backgrounds, and this new incarnation is nothing new. Just so you have an idea what lots of females like, some of the top shows for females are Games of Thrones and True Blood.

[Bry]

Kinda torn, honestly! I thought the reveal was great - it was a total shock and I was laughing in disbelief the whole time. But I wasn't super attached to Irma, and it was a hell of a swerve.

That said, this show sorely needs more regular female characters and taking one off the table isn't the best idea. So I'm hoping a real Irma is out there.

[Ninjinister]

I actually wouldn't advocate labeling fans with a "name" regardless. I'm not fond of the trend at all.

[Shark_Blade]

Speaking of labelling, I remember Dead Island has a female protagonist once with an achievement called "Feminist Whore".

That sounds awful but wicked at the same time. xD

[Luckyday]

And I just want to know, in your mind, what would a show be like that does cater to girls? I always saw TMNT as something for everyone, males, females, from all walks of life and backgrounds, and this new incarnation is nothing new. Just so you have an idea what lots of females like, some of the top shows for females are Games of Thrones and True Blood.

Maybe because those shows are comprise of character relationships and character developments. If the writing on those things are really good and not generic then of course it will draw a crowd and TMNT has the potential of having those things.

[Gunpowder]

Here's the deal: Irma is still out there somewhere, either captured or lost, and looks exactly the same as the Kraang droid imposter.

Why? Because, before this episode, she never gave us ANY hint that she was a Kraang in disguise. Her dialogue or actions never sounded suspicious. And that has nothing to do with the fact that no one suspected anything; she literally acts and talks completely normally in every episode before "The Invasion."

"Oh, but that's what makes the twist so brilliant! No one saw it coming!"

Then why does she faint in "Of Rats and Men" when hearing the Rat King's plan for her? Did the Kraang admin have a "faint" button in there?

"Yes, that's why it happened!"

No, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that the Kraang didn't even have access to robots that mimic the characters, until the finale episode - they never used them until then (Irma and the cops being the first examples of this in the entire series). All they had were those "business man" getups, which were all the exact same. Granted, they also had "Ms. Rocket Arms" at their disposal, but even when she was first introduced, she spoke like a robot. Irma didn't.

But, more to the point, that reveal was so over-the-top that it didn't even come off as a plot twist to me; it just seemed extremely stupid and utterly unnecessary, because it got rid of a potentially interesting character. What I think happened was that the producers needed to temporarily dispose of Irma's character so that April, Casey, and the Turtles would be alone when they left town, to act as a throwback to the original movie. Eventually, however, the real Irma will reveal herself (I assume she got lost in the chaos of NYC during The Invasion). Just a theory, of course, but I can already see it happening.

[Konchadunga]

I noticed that as well. The Kraang are incompetent at disguising themselves, and the fact that they only have remained hidden because most people in this series are as blind as the ones in Superman or the Pokemon anime doesn't help take them seriously. When a villain team that's generally goofy suddenly turns around and does something competent, it just feels wrong.

Another thing is I'm not sure why Kraang Sub-prime didn't grab April long before, as in the many times she was unaccompanied by anyone else. It's her the Kraang want; not the Turtles. Only Shredder wants the Turtles, so are we supposed to believe that the Kraang only use their best weapons for tasks that tepid allies give them? That's another reason to believe there was a real Irma up until recently, but in this show, you can't put much past bad writing.

[IndigoErth]

What I think happened was that the producers needed to temporarily dispose of Irma's character
Yeah, agree and was assuming the same reason April's dad got hit with the ooze yet again.

Although what's the likelihood that they'd even find him again and be capable of changing him back once more... Might be screwed for good this time, sad.


Irma is probably at home huddled in the back of her closet... lol

[Ursalink]

I don't understand why nobody answered my post in another thread, so I will post it here in hopes of getting some answers.

This has been a really cruel joke!! I really hoped for the turtles to have a third human ally, but now it's ruined... Or is it? You see, I just realized that this fact is quite similar to a famous episode from the 80's series: "The Turtle Terminator". For those who are not so experts in TMNT, in that episode, Shredder and his mutants kidnapped Irma and replaced it with a robot disguised like her; which was programmed to eliminate the turtles as soon as it find them. Its main weapon were laser beam's eyes. Once they defeated it, they reprogrammed it and send it against Shredder and Kraang. You see, if they have taken the idea from that episode, I would like to consider two options:
- I would like to think that there's still a real Irma Langinstein. You see, the first hint of Irma in the series was the episode "Mousers Attack!", where she appeared calling April's phone. Later, the Kraang found April's High School in "The Alien Agenda" thanks to her school project. If Irma was from the beginning a spy, then why would the Kraang need to find her through the school project? I believe there's still a real Irma who was April's friend, but when the Kraang found April's high school, they kidnapped her and replaced her with their spy. In that case, there's still a chance we'll see a real human Irma who will become ally of the turtles. If I'm right, she's probably imprisoned by the Kraang in some of their facilities; just like April's dad before being rescued by Donnie. I hope to be right with this.
- The other option is that Donnie will reconstruct the robotic Irma and she will be reprogrammed to be April's bodyguard or something. Sounds very unlikely, in my opinion. I prefer option one.

[Mukouno]

I don't understand why nobody answered my post in another thread, so I will post it here in hopes of getting some answers.

What kind of answer are you seeking? The scenario you had in mind is pretty much what everyone who is not very happy about the Irma twist is hoping for.

[Ursalink]

I was simply looking for someone to comment the idea I had.

[Krang100]

I didn't hate it, and thought it was a nice homage to the OT, but I do feel there's a real Irma out there someplace for reasons I mentioned elsewhere and strongly feel she was kidnapped and replaced at some point after the second Rat King ep.

I'd like if it was true, i have nothing against Kraang Subprime, but not at the cost to lose Irma. I prefer the real one was kidnapped and remplaced, so Kraang Subprime only remplaced her in the last two episodes, it makes possible to use and develop the character. Season 3 could tell us more about it when the time is comming.

[Luckyday]

I'd like if it was true, i have nothing against Kraang Subprime, but not at the cost to lose Irma. I prefer the real one was kidnapped and remplaced, so Kraang Subprime only remplaced her in the last two episodes, it makes possible to use and develop the character. Season 3 could tell us more about it when the time is comming.

More like season 4 or 5. Season 3 is already done but due to the Irma backlash, he'll probably do something about in the next season.:ohwell:

But.....if he does something in season 3 then I would be mighty impress that he had thought that much ahead.

[Slade]

Wasn't a fan of that honestly. But saw it coming when she said she never felt the cold or whatever she said.

[Shiro Kame]

While it may have been a brilliant plot, I am hoping that there is a real Irma out there, and was just replaced by a fake sometime after Of Rats And Men.

[Technogeek29]

Forums: So what do we do now?

Me: What do you what do we do now?

Forums: The real Irma's out there somewhere.

Me: I know Irma's out there Ciro and Nick are our best leads right now and we'll have to just wait until they come up with an answer.

Forums: Ooooh, so that's the plan from our great leader huh? Just sit here on our butts?

Haha couldn't resist the comparison.

[ssjup81]

Forums: So what do we do now?

Me: What do you what do we do now?

Forums: The real Irma's out there somewhere.

Me: I know Irma's out there Ciro and Nick are our best leads right now and we'll have to just wait until they come up with an answer.

Forums: Ooooh, so that's the plan from our great leader huh? Just sit here on our butts?

Haha couldn't resist the comparison.:tlol: Perfect reference. Now continue on with talking about the Forum's attitude. lol

[BubblyShell22]

Ha, loved that reference. Good job and it definitely explains the impatience of the fans. I'm willing to wait and see what Ciro and the team come up with.

[pennydreadful]

I thought it sucked, fwiw. Basically it just excuses Casey crapping on her the whole way through the season because she was cramping his constant attempts to mack on April, and turns it around to "Oh, he's so smart, he could tell something was off about her".

I liked what we'd seen of Irma and I really feel like it was a missed opportunity. Oh well.

[312]

Here's the deal: Irma is still out there somewhere, either captured or lost, and looks exactly the same as the Kraang droid imposter.

Why? Because, before this episode, she never gave us ANY hint that she was a Kraang in disguise. Her dialogue or actions never sounded suspicious. And that has nothing to do with the fact that no one suspected anything; she literally acts and talks completely normally in every episode before "The Invasion."

"Oh, but that's what makes the twist so brilliant! No one saw it coming!"

Then why does she faint in "Of Rats and Men" when hearing the Rat King's plan for her? Did the Kraang admin have a "faint" button in there?

"Yes, that's why it happened!"

No, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that the Kraang didn't even have access to robots that mimic the characters, until the finale episode - they never used them until then (Irma and the cops being the first examples of this in the entire series). All they had were those "business man" getups, which were all the exact same. Granted, they also had "Ms. Rocket Arms" at their disposal, but even when she was first introduced, she spoke like a robot. Irma didn't.

But, more to the point, that reveal was so over-the-top that it didn't even come off as a plot twist to me; it just seemed extremely stupid and utterly unnecessary, because it got rid of a potentially interesting character. What I think happened was that the producers needed to temporarily dispose of Irma's character so that April, Casey, and the Turtles would be alone when they left town, to act as a throwback to the original movie. Eventually, however, the real Irma will reveal herself (I assume she got lost in the chaos of NYC during The Invasion). Just a theory, of course, but I can already see it happening.

I think there was a big hint a few episodes ago in "a Chinatown ghost story". Remember when the ghost guy implied that both Irma and April were unique and had special properties? The exact quote the ghost said was that "You two both exhibit a power I have never encountered", That was a HUGE hint. I was completly confused as to why Irma was considered as special as April, even though April has special Krangg connected powers. Looking back on the episode now it makes complete sense. Both of them had Krangg energy, which is why he used both to create his physical body. Someone actually brought up the Irma theory during that episodes disscusion.

And he was 100% right. That episode is the bigget hint that the Irma we saw wasnt a normal girl

[ssjup81]

I think there was a big hint a few episodes ago in "a Chinatown ghost story". Remember when the ghost guy implied that both Irma and April were unique and had special properties? The exact quote the ghost said was that "You two both exhibit a power I have never encountered", That was a HUGE hint. I was completly confused as to why Irma was considered as special as April, even though April has special Krangg connected powers. Looking back on the episode now it makes complete sense. Both of them had Krangg energy, which is why he used both to create his physical body. Someone actually brought up the Irma theory during that episodes disscusion.

And he was 100% right. That episode is the bigget hint that the Irma we saw wasnt a normal girlIrma being replaced is still plausible.I dunno, it still feels off. I still think she was replaced. It just doesn't make sense to me. How would they know to spy on April prior to knowing she was the one they wanted? Why show that she and April were friends before this as opposed to after?

If they wanted April so badly and the turtles, why didn't they do so? The Kraang could've killed two birds with one stone using Irma. They could've used Irma to lure April without the turtles even knowing. Kidnap her or have Kraangbot Irma knock her out. Get the DNA they need, perfect the mutagen, make an April Kraangbot, trick the turtles into taking her to the lair (like maybe use the T-Phone, call them up to do whatever and then accompany them back to the lair or either use Casey), boom attack the city and infiltrate the lair.

Since this wasn't the case, I still can't help but think she was replaced and that this tech was new.I still feel it happened sometime after the second Rat King ep. She started asking about April's "secret friends" more.

[IndigoErth]

If I may take a crack at this...

I could be remembering it wrong, but didn't Dr. Victor Falco, the future Rat King, have mutagen in his possession? That he apparently used on Dr. Rockwell. (Experimenting with psychic powers, much like April already has, presumably because of the Krang?)

That was early in the series, quite a while before canisters accidentally got scattered across the city. So question is, how did he get it. This guy's got connections...

Willing to bet you guys may be right about Irma being kidnapped and switched during/after that Rat King episode.

Either Rat King has connections, or... when you look at him, Dr. Falco himself could potentially be said to look a fair amount similar to the human-looking Kraang-droids. Art style coincidence? Or..?

[mexichrist83]

I'm kind of torn on the Irma twist. Was it a good twist? For a kids show where something like this would not normally be expected I'd say that it totally was a good twist. Do I hate it? Not just yet. Only because I am holding out hope that the real Irma is out there somewhere and she will return. Even though there wasn't much time to develop her as a full on character what was given to us was a fun kind of snarky and cool female character to add to the group. It would be a shame to completely waste potential like that. If she is out there and will be brought back it doesn't need to be immediately. I'm fine if they make us wait but not too long. I''d say half a season is a good long wait. If Irma never comes back then I'll hate the twist.

[Konchadunga]

As always, feel free to gripe using the #bringbackirma tag.

[Warhorse]

Irma being replaced is still plausible.I still feel it happened sometime after the second Rat King ep. She started asking about April's "secret friends" more.

Yep. Or at least I hope that's the deal. If it did happen, I still think it happened right after Plan 10, considering what Plan 10 was all about.

[Drose18]

I think shes out there somewhere...sadly

[Konchadunga]

Low blow, shellhead.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I agree that she has to be out there. Otherwise, why would they even bother bringing her into the fold in the first place?