Are Leo and Donnie more in tune to their human side than Mikey and Raph?

[Warhorse]

I was just wondering. But, is it just coincidence that it seems like Leo and Donnie tend to have the rapports with the humans, and not with animals, where as Mikey and Raph are the opposite, rapport with animals more than humans. Donnie is obviously friends with April, but he also took on the responsibility to deal with Timothy. Leo became friends with Karai, and tolerated the little girl in Slash and Destroy fairly well. But neither seemed to have any pets, and even sometimes have problems with mutants that lean more towards animals than humans.

Mikey and Raph though, have struck rapports with Spike, Icecream Kitty and Leatherhead, and Raph has that weird talking to pigeons thing, just makes me wonder if Raph and Mikey lean more towards their animal side of their DNA gene while Leo and Donnie took on the more human qualities. Or is this all just coincidence.

[TurtleTitan97]

I have a feeling it's all coincidence.

[IndigoErth]

Hmm.. I wasn't sure but...
Mikey and Raph though, have struck rapports with Spike, Icecream Kitty and Leatherhead, and Raph has that weird talking to pigeons thing...
That's a good point and a lot of evidence.

Genetic thing... eh, maybe, or imo also could be that Leo and Donnie simply have personalities that give them more drive to want to try to fit in with humans, while maybe Raph and Mikey on the other hand approach it more from a standpoint of a fear of knowing they already don't.

Nick Leo after all also wishes to emulate a human character in his favorite cartoon series. And Donnie in various versions would also gladly associate with great human scientific minds if able. As I just mentioned of people in another thread, perhaps the same can be said of the Turtles - maybe two see their humanity in themselves first, and two don't as much/as quickly.

[JTH]

I think it's more of a fact that Ciro wants those characters to be more relatable to fans to increase Leo and Donnie's popularity to the new fanbase, since people have stated on numerous occasions that Mikey and Raph have no depth in character, and yet look at all the fans of those characters for this show.

Most fans of a show's favorite character is based on how they relate to them, and with Donnie being a super genius and Leo being a leader that many rely on, for most fans there's little to no relation to those characters so they don't catch as much to fans. Where as Mikey's a goofball and Raph wears his emotions on his sleeve and acts rough; many more people can attest to that. Donnie and Leo, not so much.

Giving Leo and Donnie more human components and emotion can make a fan watch the show and go "Hey, that's just like me. I know what that character is going through." or "I can relate to him." and thus, you gain fandom for those characters.

Which is why I have always supported this stuff. Trying to help a character's popularity is never a bad thing.

[BubblyShell22]

Have to agree with JTH on this one. After all, Ciro did say that Don needed the crush aspect, and I think it's worked because I actually like Donnie in this series whereas in other incarnations he's always been my least favorite Turtle.

[TurtleTitan97]

Have to agree with JTH on this one. After all, Ciro did say that Don needed the crush aspect, and I think it's worked because I actually like Donnie in this series whereas in other incarnations he's always been my least favorite Turtle.

Wellllll, I wouldn't say he NEEDS it. But I'm okay with the crush thing overall.

If anything, I think Rob Paulsen's performance as Donnie has helped a lot in making him a popular character in this series.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, I agree with that as well. Rob does a great job as Donnie.

[Warhorse]

Wellllll, I wouldn't say he NEEDS it. But I'm okay with the crush thing overall.

If anything, I think Rob Paulsen's performance as Donnie has helped a lot in making him a popular character in this series.

Or maybe, the fact that the main producer/creator of the show just so happens to claim Donnie as his favorite? I'm just saying.

[TurtleTitan97]

Or maybe, the fact that the main producer/creator of the show just so happens to claim Donnie as his favorite? I'm just saying.

Maybe. But I still believe Rob plays as a major factor. It's because of his performance that this is my favorite version of Donnie, mostly.

[Coola Yagami]

They're more human than animal now, so it kinda doesn't count anymore. Mikey liking a kitty doesn't make him any more animal than any of us owning a pet does make us more of an animal.

[IndigoErth]

They're more human than animal now, so it kinda doesn't count anymore.
Really (and not to step on any creationist toes) I suppose they're turtles sorta in the same way that we're apes. (They just took a shortcut.) Sure it's your biological origin, but beyond that...meh. lol No one goes around thinking about it all the time.

[Warhorse]

They're more human than animal now, so it kinda doesn't count anymore. Mikey liking a kitty doesn't make him any more animal than any of us owning a pet does make us more of an animal.

But what about Mikey able to get through to Leatherhead, and Raph being able to communicate to pigeons?

[snake]

I don't think so. I always saw Mikey as an animal lover though.

[Slade]

Can someone find me where it says these turtles are actually part human?

[MikeandRaph87]

I believe that Michelangelo is most in tuned with his human side. He acts most like his age and is into the same things humans are and gets along with them the easiest in any incarnation.

Donatello on the otherhand seems to be more distant to humans and acts towards his turtle side. He may be into all the science discoveries but he wanted to leave Earth behind to join a community of turtles. He also seems least trusting of the humans whereas Mike is the most trusting. Don also was the first to decide Titanus had a point when he offered the turtles an alliance. Its also Donatello who is upset to learn they were nothing more than an accident following a mistake by humans in Secret of The Ooze. That being said I think your looking at it from solely the Nickelodeon cartoon and as far as Don is concerned just the crush on April thing that Nick added only as a means to flesh out Donatello and make the young audience find him more likeable for this version alone. No matter the version I believe Mike relates most to humans where as Don relates the least.

[CyberCubed]

Mikey must be listening to rap music, because he's saying things like, "Dawg," "homie," and other words associated with the genre.

[Slade]

Mikey must be listening to rap music, because he's saying things like, "Dawg," "homie," and other words associated with the genre.

so................

[BabyTurtles]

Mikey must be listening to rap music, because he's saying things like, "Dawg," "homie," and other words associated with the genre.

2014 dude. He's always been hip.

Cowabunga and Rad don't cut it anymore :D

[MikeandRaph87]

2014 dude. He's always been hip.

Cowabunga and Rad don't cut it anymore :D

Not quite right...http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/824/f68/091/resized/ninja-turtle-meme-generator-cowabunga-says-it-all-009a2e.jpg

[Ashwolf]

honestly, booyakasha is a lot better than cowabunga....

[miru]

Mike is probably the most in tune with his animal side, as seen when tucking into his shell.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Not true, as they ALL do that. He just tends to act on instinct more than the others- Splinter even points this out to Donnie in Monkey Brains. He acts without thinking. However, I think it's his desire to fit in and have human friends (as he did in New Friend Old Enemy) shows that Mikey DOES see himself as more "human" than animal. He simply wants to be liked for himself.

And he also has compassion and sympathy for everyone, no matter what they look like or what they are- which is why he became friends with Leatherhead. He seems to trust more easily, and doesn't rush to judge others, unlike his brothers. Even Donnie has been guilty of this with Leatherhead! Also, Mikey has liked and felt compassion toward animals long before ICK. In the same episode where he befriended Bradford, he tried to befriend another human by bringing back the kitten he had rescued from the roof. The kitten was friendly until the owner freaked out- then it also freaked and ended up clinging to his back clawing angrily. It was played for laughs, but that scene clearly shows that he loves animals AND wants to fit in with humans.

[Warhorse]

Not true, as they ALL do that. He just tends to act on instinct more than the others- Splinter even points this out to Donnie in Monkey Brains. He acts without thinking. However, I think it's his desire to fit in and have human friends (as he did in New Friend Old Enemy) shows that Mikey DOES see himself as more "human" than animal. He simply wants to be liked for himself.

And he also has compassion and sympathy for everyone, no matter what they look like or what they are- which is why he became friends with Leatherhead. He seems to trust more easily, and doesn't rush to judge others, unlike his brothers. Even Donnie has been guilty of this with Leatherhead! Also, Mikey has liked and felt compassion toward animals long before ICK. In the same episode where he befriended Bradford, he tried to befriend another human by bringing back the kitten he had rescued from the roof. The kitten was friendly until the owner freaked out- then it also freaked and ended up clinging to his back clawing angrily. It was played for laughs, but that scene clearly shows that he loves animals AND wants to fit in with humans.

But, if Mikey is so trusting and doesn't rush to judge, how come he was quick to call out to April "April, you need to pick your friends more carefully next time"

[ssjup81]

But, if Mikey is so trusting and doesn't rush to judge, how come he was quick to call out to April "April, you need to pick your friends more carefully next time"Probably a way for the writers to toss in that joke, but not too much time after that, he gives encouraging words about how she was just trying to help a friend.

That line actually fit the scene from a comedic perspective. Man, April herself could've said, but she got the "This is so messed up" line. I've always liked ironic humor...

[miru]

Not true, as they ALL do that. He just tends to act on instinct more than the others- Splinter even points this out to Donnie in Monkey Brains. He acts without thinking. However, I think it's his desire to fit in and have human friends (as he did in New Friend Old Enemy) shows that Mikey DOES see himself as more "human" than animal. He simply wants to be liked for himself.

And he also has compassion and sympathy for everyone, no matter what they look like or what they are- which is why he became friends with Leatherhead. He seems to trust more easily, and doesn't rush to judge others, unlike his brothers. Even Donnie has been guilty of this with Leatherhead! Also, Mikey has liked and felt compassion toward animals long before ICK. In the same episode where he befriended Bradford, he tried to befriend another human by bringing back the kitten he had rescued from the roof. The kitten was friendly until the owner freaked out- then it also freaked and ended up clinging to his back clawing angrily. It was played for laughs, but that scene clearly shows that he loves animals AND wants to fit in with humans.

But Michaelangelo once went completely into his shell in TCRI.

[snake]

But Michaelangelo once went completely into his shell in TCRI.

Also in Target:April O'Neil.

[BubblyShell22]

But, if Mikey is so trusting and doesn't rush to judge, how come he was quick to call out to April "April, you need to pick your friends more carefully next time"

Well, I think he learned his lesson about trusting people too easily after the Bradford incident. And as for the line, it was a joke because later he consoled her and told her it wasn't her fault that all of that had happened.

As for the original topic here, I wouldn't say that Leo and Donnie are more in tune with their human side. I think they all have times where they act more human and associate themselves in that way rather than their turtle sides.

[Luckyday]

I always wonder how much of a culture shock that they will get if they ever meet other mutant turtles with all of the turtle's qualities but with none of the humanity. Would they feel embarrass or out of place? Maybe even more alone then they do now?

[BubblyShell22]

I definitely think they would feel out of place and possibly feel weird to know that there are others like them but who aren't really like them. But maybe they'd want to help these turtles gain humanity, too.

[Luckyday]

What if they don't want to change? That would be the equivalent of going to someone country and saying "Ok, you all have to speak English now and follow the book of God."

[MsMarvelDuckie]

But Michaelangelo once went completely into his shell in TCRI.


And now they ALL have. Mikey was the first to be shown doing so, but obviously, they ALL have that ability. The other three did so in a recent ep in season two (I forget which one, now), so clearly, they can all do it. And in TCRI, Mikey only did it because they were about to use him as a battering ram, mostly since he was able to hold his breath longest. It had nothing to do with being in touch with his turtle side- he just got the "short straw, as it were.....

[ShelleyQuick]

I actually think it's adorable when they "retreat", mostly because it reminds how amazing turtles are to beging with(Part of the reason I love TMNT is because I LOVE turtles so much). I think we've seen Mikey, Raph and Donnie go in their shells, don't know about Leo, I don't think so though. I'm talking about the NickTurtles of course.:)

[BubblyShell22]

What if they don't want to change? That would be the equivalent of going to someone country and saying "Ok, you all have to speak English now and follow the book of God."

Well, I'm not saying they would force them to change if they didn't want to, but I could see them trying to help out or maybe trying to understand why these turtles are here and why they aren't like them.

[IndigoErth]

In a way, the Turtles meeting other sentient turtles sans the humanity - and therefor I assume more animalistic still - might be sort of like us stepping foot into Planet of the Apes or running into 'cavemen,' and perhaps share a similar perspective as we might in that case.

Although us humans however of course would want to "civilize" them though if we haven't already learned well enough to leave well enough alone. :roll: The Turtles I imagine would let them be though, given their own understanding of not wanting humans to intrude upon them, so why inflict intrusion on anyone else.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at, though I can see Mikey maybe wanting them to act more like him and getting them to socialize more as that's the way he is.

[IndigoErth]

For Mikey's sake then I hope they'd be nothing like snapping turtles, else he might want to watch his hands if he doesn't want to lose one. If they don't want to go along with it, push them enough to upset them and it might be like Leatherhead going into wild mode, no thinking, just reaction.

And then our sentient human-like Turtles end up with a finger or two fewer than they even had in the first place.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I'm sure he'd stop if his brothers told him to, but I just see him as the more sociable Turtle who would want to be friends with them and get to understand them more.

[Luckyday]

Well, I'm not saying they would force them to change if they didn't want to, but I could see them trying to help out or maybe trying to understand why these turtles are here and why they aren't like them.

Okay, I can understand that.

It just one of the things that sounds like a bad idea at first glance until someone put a surprising deconstruction twist to it that's unexpected.

Like for example, if the boys actually met a girl turtle, would they even tell that she's a girl ( if her design is realistic to what a female would look like) or even be attracted to her since they're so use to our standard on what is considered to be attractive? I mean think about it. In sci fi, how often does the male hero hook with an alien that looks a human with ultra color skin tone?

Well, I'm sure he'd stop if his brothers told him to, but I just see him as the more sociable Turtle who would want to be friends with them and get to understand them more.

If another turtle met Mikey, they would be scare off by him because of his toothy smile. In the human world, a smile just means that you're happy to see someone but in the animal world, smiling to a chimp could mean that you're angry. Showing teeth in general, is a sign of aggression.

Their turtle way of showing happiness of seeing someone they know or what to know is a slow head bob and if Mikey becomes too eager and bobs his head fast. He could unintentionally insult them which turns into a mess of miscommunication.

[BubblyShell22]

You know, I'd love to see something like that just to get Mikey's reaction.

Mikey: Dude, I was just being nice.

And as for the girl thing, if they would make it that realistic, that would be awesome for the Turtles to have that experience and be all confused about it. As long as she didn't have turtle breasts, I'd be okay with that.

[Luckyday]

Or hair. There something about seeing reptiles with hair that makes me angry and it always the long flowing mary sue hair. Ugh.

[snake]

Or hair. There something about seeing reptiles with hair that makes me angry and it always the long flowing mary sue hair. Ugh.

I think Mona Lisa should be bald. She's a reptile, not a mammel

[ssjup81]

I think Mona Lisa should be bald. She's a reptile, not a mammelBut she started off as one, so she kept her hair. But I'm reaching. lol

[Luckyday]

There some really good fan art of Mona Lisa on Tumblr.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7a46f1cb4de3a78ab7e7e860a3894370/tumblr_n11ekfOF331sbyqrho1_500.jpg


She seem younger then I would have liked. My idea for Mona Lisa was to be a college student that study biology and was trying study mutants for her thesis but I would like this design of her to be use as a concept. She should have markings and stripes to get some of that authentic reptile look.

[IndigoErth]

If they start out human...eh... might be able to get away with it, though otherwise agree on leaving off the typical misplaced human female gender indicators that are too often included on characters where it shouldn't be.

I haven't really seen too much of the Kung Fu Panda stuff, but I appreciate that it's one of the few shows/movies to actually go that way and in that case let Tigress be a tiger, not a tiger shaped like a human.

Edit: Well technically I think Mona Lisa is an amphibian? So salamander markings maybe, there's some pretty ones they could take inspiration from.

[BubblyShell22]

Agree with you about the hair, Luckyday. I don't want to see that either. And Splinter was human first, but he didn't keep his hair.

[travelingcat]

Karai didn't keep her hair when she mutated to a snake, so there's hope.

[Gunpowder]

Interesting. Now that I think about it, Raph and Mikey do share a partcularly close bond (whenever Raph has a semi-sentimental "brothers come first" moment, it almost always is directed at Mikey). So their mutual connection with animals makes sense.

Also want to point out the moment in the season 3 premier episode when the chickens attack Mikey for not having enough food. So much for that "connection." :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Birds... never trust 'em. They might be harmless deep down but really, those chickens, Malachi, that pigeon guy before they figured out he was likewise harmless... :P

[Warhorse]

Birds... never trust 'em. They might be harmless deep down but really, those chickens, Malachi, that pigeon guy before they figured out he was likewise harmless... :P

NO JOKE!

uYh33DcYmFc

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[Gunpowder]

Birds... never trust 'em. They might be harmless deep down but really, those chickens, Malachi, that pigeon guy before they figured out he was likewise harmless... :P

Pete! Loved that guy. I hope they bring him back. (Pretty sure he was in "Metalhead Rewired" for a split second, so I think it's a possibility.)

[Shiro Kame]

Chickens are the embodiment of evil... :kgrin:

[ssjup81]

Chickens are the embodiment of evil... :kgrin:And yet so tasty...:D

So, I'm really the only one who thought Legend of Zelda with the way the chickens attacked him? lol

[IndigoErth]

lol The more evil the animal the more delicious it is. Or so it should be. (Shredder BBQ...)

[Gunpowder]

I can't help but think of Deadman Wonderland (if anyone's seen that), with dudes dressed as chickens blowing people's brains out.

[Warhorse]

Well, I don't know if it means anything, but I've caught Leo call out to his team on more than one occasion "come on people, lets get going!" So, I guess he sees himself and his brothers as people?

[IndigoErth]

Well, I don't know if it means anything, but I've caught Leo call out to his team on more than one occasion "come on people, lets get going!" So, I guess he sees himself and his brothers as people?
Yeah, I think one of those occasions is when April goes out with them and is trying to keep up? Always took note of that one in particular for some reason.

Good thing about the word "people" I guess, don't necessarily have to be human for it to apply. :) (Think it's been done a bit historically as well in old tales, calling species or types of species that, i.e. "the bird people.")

[Davetello]

Speaking broadly, Leo and Donnie are often more thoughtful and intelligent than Mikey and Raph, so it's natural that they will develop more of an affinity with other people. Although Mikey has his happy-go-lucky charm, but I feel that in this show he's depicted as too innocent/youthful to fully benefit from that in terms of human interaction.

Raph is often portrayed as a misanthrope/bully/general pr!ck. He isn't really any of these things, as we see in his moments of vulnerability, but it does put others off him. Even his relationship with Casey doesn't stand out in Nick to me really - the bond was far stronger in Mirage and 2k3, but perhaps that's because Casey is so young in Nick.

[Megchan]

I always imagined that the guys wouldn't be able to distinguish a male turtle from a female turtle by sight alone. Perhaps her body frame would be slightly smaller, but they'd chalk it up to her/him having a growth deficiency and then completely freak out after she states she's a she not a he.

[IndigoErth]

Actually, speaking of Mikey, I think it's in the episode that Donnie finally figures out the retromutagen and Mikey grabs it wondering what he'd look like if he used it and turned back to human... and was reminded that he never was.

I feel for these poor kids, they must be so confused... lol

[Davetello]

Actually, speaking of Mikey, I think it's in the episode that Donnie finally figures out the retromutagen and Mikey grabs it wondering what he'd look like if he used it and turned back to human... and was reminded that he never was.

I feel for these poor kids, they must be so confused... lol

Aw. That's depressing.

I love all of them like brothers.

[Warhorse]

Speaking broadly, Leo and Donnie are often more thoughtful and intelligent than Mikey and Raph, so it's natural that they will develop more of an affinity with other people. Although Mikey has his happy-go-lucky charm, but I feel that in this show he's depicted as too innocent/youthful to fully benefit from that in terms of human interaction.

Raph is often portrayed as a misanthrope/bully/general pr!ck. He isn't really any of these things, as we see in his moments of vulnerability, but it does put others off him. Even his relationship with Casey doesn't stand out in Nick to me really - the bond was far stronger in Mirage and 2k3, but perhaps that's because Casey is so young in Nick.

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.

[Davetello]

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.

It certainly seems that way. This show is very Donnie oriented, but obviously I won't complain about that. Beside Leo and Raph have generally been the prominent turtles in the property.

[ssjup81]

Actually, speaking of Mikey, I think it's in the episode that Donnie finally figures out the retromutagen and Mikey grabs it wondering what he'd look like if he used it and turned back to human... and was reminded that he never was.

I feel for these poor kids, they must be so confused... lolAlthough I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis. :P

[Warhorse]

Although I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis. :P

Raph already had it and that's why he's pissed!:lol:

[Davetello]

Like Prowler, these days I certainly identify far more with Raphael and Donatello than Michelangelo and Leonardo in all iterations of the TMNT. My temper and cynicism allows me to connect to Raph and my studious and thoughtful side is all Donnie.

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think) and I have zero innocence/youthful exuberance so I can't really identify with those two. In fact even as a boy I wasn't drawn to '87 Mike, unlike so many kids. But I still care about Mike and Leo a lot.

[Warrior]

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.
I don't know if we can say these events necessarily made Raph Raph. The core of the character can still stay the same without a lot of the stuff you mentioned. If we're talking about the core of the character, then honestly, he's not all too different from previous incarnations personality-wise other then the fact that he, along with the rest of the turtles, act more like teenagers now rather than pseudo adults.

If you look at specific events and episodes dedicated to Raph, then he's not the star of a lot of them, and that might be a problem if it keeps going (though imho Mikey has that problem as well, even more so.) But the core line-to-line interactions with his brothers is very strong in showing him through. If it's one think this show gets right, it's the little moments of camaraderie among the turtles.

[Luckyday]

Although I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis. :P

Which is why, imo makes it a perfect analogy for a coming of age story and if not that then it would still be a really introspective or existential kind of story.

Sons of The Silent Age was a brief glimpse of what goes on inside their heads and it also made it impossible for me look at them as funny talking animal cartoon characters.:teek:

I want to go deeper in that direction.

[IndigoErth]

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think)
Nor do I (at best probably an indirect, lead by example sort), but there's I lot in Leo (collectively speaking, not just 2012) that I do relate to and appreciate within his persona.

Had this thought the other day, if I were out sitting under a big old tree on a hill in some quiet countryside with these four... I imagine Raph and Mikey would probably both become their own version of bored after roughly the same amount of time and wander off. Donnie might politely excuse himself a short time later, knowing he could be using the time to get something accomplished. Leo however, I could see him staying a while...

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I'm the youngest in my family, yet I identify with Leo so much more as I've gotten older mainly because I'm the one with my head on my shoulders and haven't screwed things up like my older siblings. Plus, I'm always the one trying to talk sense into my sis and to let her know what I think of her decisions and how I feel that they aren't good for her just as Leo would do to Raph. And I'm also pretty hard on myself when it comes to failure and not being good enough, so I definitely relate there, too.

Also, I agree about Mikey wanting to be human because he wants to be accepted by society and fit in with them. I see Raph as more skeptical of humans and not wanting to trust them which is why he's more attuned to his animal side.

And I agree about birds. Hate them!

[Davetello]

Nor do I (at best probably an indirect, lead by example sort), but there's I lot in Leo (collectively speaking, not just 2012) that I do relate to and appreciate within his persona.

Had this thought the other day, if I were out sitting under a big old tree on a hill in some quiet countryside with these four... I imagine Raph and Mikey would probably both become their own version of bored after roughly the same amount of time and wander off. Donnie might politely excuse himself a short time later, knowing he could be using the time to get something accomplished. Leo however, I could see him staying a while...

I can see the parallels between you and Leo, certainly.

[Warhorse]

Like Prowler, these days I certainly identify far more with Raphael and Donatello than Michelangelo and Leonardo in all iterations of the TMNT. My temper and cynicism allows me to connect to Raph and my studious and thoughtful side is all Donnie.

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think) and I have zero innocence/youthful exuberance so I can't really identify with those two. In fact even as a boy I wasn't drawn to '87 Mike, unlike so many kids. But I still care about Mike and Leo a lot.

Eh, I have 0 leadership skills as well, and unfortunately, I also don't like being told what to do. So in the end, I work best alone and not part of a team.

I don't know if we can say these events necessarily made Raph Raph. The core of the character can still stay the same without a lot of the stuff you mentioned. If we're talking about the core of the character, then honestly, he's not all too different from previous incarnations personality-wise other then the fact that he, along with the rest of the turtles, act more like teenagers now rather than pseudo adults.

If you look at specific events and episodes dedicated to Raph, then he's not the star of a lot of them, and that might be a problem if it keeps going (though imho Mikey has that problem as well, even more so.) But the core line-to-line interactions with his brothers is very strong in showing him through. If it's one think this show gets right, it's the little moments of camaraderie among the turtles.

Both Mikey and Raph have been the butt of jokes, the screw ups in this show. It's just a little disheartening to see and feel that the writers don't think much of half of the pack, or at least enough to write them beyond their stereotypes. My biggest beef is that they are making Raph seem so dumb compared to the others. In other incarnations, yeah, he was no scholar, but he was quick to react, and could make a plan for situations, had good intuitions with people and was also known for his street smarts. The one thing that is still irking me, is that 2k3, the movies or this new show seems to want to forget that Raphael actually knows about engines and cars, and they could use him as backup to Donnie, instead of Donnie being the only one to get all of the glory when it comes to these types of things. And then, Mikey has his writing skills. I'd love it if they made an episode where he started to write stories online, and he gained a fan who wanted to meet him, and this all surprised the other brothers who are used to the loose minded Mikey, actually having the discipline and thought to write out intricate stories.

[IndigoErth]

Eh, I have 0 leadership skills as well, and unfortunately, I also don't like being told what to do. So in the end, I work best alone and not part of a team.
The force Nightwatcher is strong in this one. ;)

And then, Mikey has his writing skills. I'd love it if they made an episode where he started to write stories online, and he gained a fan who wanted to meet him, and this all surprised the other brothers who are used to the loose minded Mikey, actually having the discipline and thought to write out intricate stories.
Ahh that would be adorable if he had like a fiction blog or something. (Edit: Self publish his own comics online?? Turtle Titan!)

Then, I dunno, make the fan turn out to be Mona Lisa or another girl like that. :D Have 'em both in disguise when they meet and takes a while for something to finally happen that causes them to both figure out that neither is human. Awwww...

[Warhorse]

The force Nightwatcher is strong in this one. ;)

I know. I totally missed my calling. I should have been a Delta Force sniper. Oh well, can't turn back time now.


Ahh that would be adorable if he had like a fiction blog or something. (Edit: Self publish his own comics online?? Turtle Titan!)

Then, I dunno, make the fan turn out to be Mona Lisa or another girl like that. :D Have 'em both in disguise when they meet and takes a while for something to finally happen that causes them to both figure out that neither is human. Awwww...
That would be cute. (Or also, maybe it's April or one of the brothers who becomes a fan, and doesn't even know it's Mikey doing the writing the whole time.) Sh!t, this brainstorming for ideas stuff is fun!:D

[BubblyShell22]

That would be cool if it was April or one of the other Turtles was the fan. I really wish they would show something like this.