The typical action cartoon franchise production formula

[neatoman]

So the ratings are not doing so hot right now huh? That's probably pretty normal actually, most cartoons don't even get three seasons, kids are fickle after all. Even if we don't get a fifth season, it will still have had a good run.

Obviously Nickelodeon won't give up on the franchise if this show fails and there will be TMNT cartoons after it, but instead of starting a show and ordering seasons to see how long it lasts, what if they start using the more typical formula?
This formula usually applies to action cartoons and seems to work fairly well.

1. Design a show to last 1-3 seasons, or 52-65 episodes.
2. After it has run it's course, wait a year or two.
3. Start over from step 1.

It has worked for Transformers for almost twenty years.

[Shark_Blade]

I hope they'd do anything to help the ratings.

The story is increasingly more interesting than ever, I don't want them to pull the plug half way through. But seeing Nick purchased until season 4 (?), I think we're good...

[ssjup81]

I thought one of the main problems with this series is that it's not promoted well and that it doesn't seem to have a consistent time slot and that online viewings doesn't count towards ratings.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, I can see this happening at one point. Seems to me that with season 4 only having 20 episodes instead of the standard 26 that we've been getting, it makes me think that this show may end at season 4. But if I'm wrong, then that's fine because I'd like to see it last at least five seasons if that.

[miru]

Well, considering this leads to a lot of poorly-made series (the Unicron Trilogy, Teen Titans Go, etc)...


I'm indifferent.

[neatoman]

Well, considering this leads to a lot of poorly-made series (the Unicron Trilogy, Teen Titans Go, etc)...


I'm indifferent.

I never said they would be good cartoons, just financially reliable cartoons...

[IndigoErth]

Wait a year or two? Are you kidding, the summer hiatus of this series was painful enough. lol

I dunno, while I can't say I really have any idea about other shows and who they have appealed to, TMNT at least has in it's favor that it has a strong and largely loyal adult fanbase, even if it wasn't intended or expected.

The kids might get bored and wander off, or reach the age some question an age limit on cartoons... adult fans though can help pick up the slack. And heard the call without even being asked to attend the party. lol

I'd really love to see actual viewer demographic numbers.


Have to agree with comments on weak advertising though. I glanced past a recent article last night (can't find it again.. damn) that, if I recall correctly, stated it was within the top five most watched cartoons (assume that includes only 'kids' cartoons), in the U.S. at least. And while that is nice, where is the level of advertising they should be airing?

Really makes me think that Nick is just assuming that an already successful cartoon can stand on it's own with minimal advertisement. While pushing some of that other junk at a high rate to try to ensure their profit?

Kind of curious how frequently commercials might be on right in the after school hours. I saw one earlier, but that was while kids were in the middle of the school day. Not too helpful.

Well... fingers crossed, maybe the viewership will pick up soon with the seasons changing, no longer light out at 8pm for the kids, and getting colder might mean staying warm in front of the tv more often.

[Metalwolf]

Yes, I can see this happening at one point. Seems to me that with season 4 only having 20 episodes instead of the standard 26 that we've been getting, it makes me think that this show may end at season 4. But if I'm wrong, then that's fine because I'd like to see it last at least five seasons if that.That's what I'm thinking too. I suspect that they'll have it end at Season 4 and then wait a few years, and then start up another show. I'm betting through that this version is sort of a learning experience, and they're finding out what to do and not to do for the next one.

[IndigoErth]

What if when this one were to end they suddenly sprung a secretly started new one on the audience that's a continuation of this one, but the characters are an older version of themselves? o.O Really wish that would be the case at the end of this one. *audience craps bricks*

[CyberCubed]

The show will have 98 episodes by the time Season 4 ends. Pretty sure it'll have a few more seasons after that.

[Luckyday]

What if when this one were to end they suddenly sprung a secretly started new one on the audience that's a continuation of this one, but the characters are an older version of themselves? o.O Really wish that would be the case at the end of this one. *audience craps bricks*

They can use mirage volume 4 as a template! http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/omges1.png

[Refractive Reflections]

Doing this cyclic approach every 3-4 years would dilute the anticipation of a new series every time for us fans (since the character growth and journeys would be so short), but I don't know how the kids would react since a new generation of kids (within primary school) would be growing up with each new series.

But a stronger point is, considering how in 2013, Spongebob reruns were doing better than newly created Nick TMNT episodes on the Nickelodeon network (and this was when the Nick series was pulling in 2.5-3.0 million), I don't know how enthusiastic Nick is willing to bring back the TMNT series again:


What's even worse is that throughout 2013, Nick TMNT couldn't even make it to Nick's Top 50 most watched program list for 2013:
http://www.nickandmore.com/2013/12/29/top-50-most-watched-nickelodeon-programs-of-2013/ Even after all the Spongebob episodes are removed, Nick TMNT finally shows up in 10th place! ...Then 19th, then 23rd, then 24th...

[neatoman]

They can use mirage volume 4 as a template! http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series2/omges1.png

Wasn't the typical response to volume 4 that it was bizarre? With the magic drawing April and T-Raph and Micro-Donnie in Mecha-Donnie and Wood-Utroms and Battle Nexus Shredder and whatever else?

[IndigoErth]

But a stronger point is, considering how in 2013, Spongebob reruns were doing better than newly created Nick TMNT episodes on the Nickelodeon network (and this was when the Nick series was pulling in 2.5-3.0 million), I don't know how enthusiastic Nick is willing to bring back the TMNT series again:
Is that collectively though? Because Spongebob seems to be literally on almost all the time. With it on so much, I question how often it may simply be the channel a tv is set on in the background simply because it's Nick/a cartoon channel while not necessarily being paid that much attention to.

[BubblyShell22]

The show will have 98 episodes by the time Season 4 ends. Pretty sure it'll have a few more seasons after that.

Stop saying things like you know they'll come true without any knowledge of whether it will or not. Man, you p*ss me off!

[CyberCubed]

Stop saying things like you know they'll come true without any knowledge of whether it will or not. Man, you p*ss me off!

Saying the show will have more seasons really bothers you? I'm not sure why, you think people would want the show to go on longer.

[Leofan26]

The show will have 98 episodes by the time Season 4 ends. Pretty sure it'll have a few more seasons after that.

??? Isn't season four shorter than season three? Thought I read that.

What universe have you been living in? Every series on Nick only has four seasons at best, same with Disney unless they are insanely popular and has crazy ratings like the stupid sponge gets or Rugrats had before the sponge came in. If it was on Cartoon Network maybe, Ed, Edd n Eddy had seven seasons and a movie, Codename kids next Door I think had six and two specials and a movie.

I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. With ratings taking a dive already, yah.

[neatoman]

Stop saying things like you know they'll come true without any knowledge of whether it will or not. Man, you p*ss me off!

I think he's confusing hopes and predictions. Just tell him to analyse facts and think a little more about trends.

The show will have 98 episodes by the time Season 4 ends. Pretty sure it'll have a few more seasons after that.

OK CyberCubed we know you want seven seasons, I want seven seasons too, but you can't proclaim it will have seven seasons when the popularity is dropping.

[neatoman]

Saying the show will have more seasons really bothers you? I'm not sure why, you think people would want the show to go on longer.

No, nobody here is saying they don't want more seasons, we're saying it's not a realistic expectation.

[BubblyShell22]

Saying the show will have more seasons really bothers you? I'm not sure why, you think people would want the show to go on longer.

What bothers me is that you say it like it's fact. If you want to make a prediction on how long it'll last, say, "I predict that the Nick show will last up to seven seasons." That way, everyone knows it's your prediction and not something you're stating as a fact.

[snake]

I wish more action shows had more then 52 episodes.

[kolaida]

Do the ratings really matter as much as they did when Rugrats (early and most of the 90s) was on TV? Back then, not very many people could really stream it online. When I was watching Nick a few weeks ago, it had an ad telling people not to wait for the new turtles episode, to go online and watch it then. Even in the early 00s, SpongeBob probably wasn't something people really streamed online.

I've seen quite a bit of merchandise at some of the elementary schools I've been at. And there seems to be tons of merch at Hot Topic and FYE. And I've seen some really dorky commercials on Nick for Turtle costumes.

I wish Nick's player would tell us how many people viewed it when they air it early.

I hope the show lasts at least the five seasons Ciro was hoping for.

[IndigoErth]

Am I the only one that feels as if this thing is still kind of new? (And seems so strange to me to read talk of when it might end.) I think it's mostly due to the fact that we were still just recently in season 2. Though it went on for so long I now find myself surprised sometimes that some episodes happened in season 2, not 1. lol

[kolaida]

Am I the only one that feels as if this thing is still kind of new? (And seems so strange to me to read talk of when it might end.) I think it's mostly due to the fact that we were still just recently in season 2. Though it went on for so long I now find myself surprised sometimes that some episodes happened in season 2, not 1. lol

No, I feel that way, too. August 2012 doesn't seem that long ago. And, yeah, I get the seasons mixed up.

[Warhorse]

I thought one of the main problems with this series is that it's not promoted well and that it doesn't seem to have a consistent time slot and that online viewings doesn't count towards ratings.

A combination of this. Not to mention, nielsen ratings are finally starting to be question by most of the networks. It's just a matter of time before all networks start to look at venues outside of the nielsen ratings system. Fox and NBC have already done that. It's very possible Nick is not putting much stock into nielsen either, since they do have other methods, like the online streaming, the buying of episodes on amazon shortly after they aired, and the toy sales.

With that aside. With so much talk of how this series has turned into the Donnie and Leo show, and that everyone likes to say Ciro and company are doing that because Raph and Mike are the popular/heavy weight favorites of the show, is it possible this approach they are using to try and beef up Donnie's and Leo's popularity, in turn, is having a reverse affect on the show itself with the viewers? I've actually come across TMNT fans who have said something like this, so it makes me wonder.

[Refractive Reflections]

Is that collectively though? Because Spongebob seems to be literally on almost all the time. With it on so much, I question how often it may simply be the channel a tv is set on in the background simply because it's Nick/a cartoon channel while not necessarily being paid that much attention to.

I gave the 2.5-3.0 million per episode as a rough range during that 2013 time period on my part after looking through the individual episodes and their ratings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_%282012_TV_se ries%29_episodes).

The article gives the stats of the Top 50 most watched episodes on Nickelodeon throughout the entire 2013 year with their specific dates and times (from Season 1's "I, Monster"/"Rat Trap" to Season 2's "Slash and Destroy"). During Nick TMNT's better ratings, one would think that at least 5 TMNT episodes would have been on the list considering how immensely popular we were led to believe the Nick TMNT series was, but it isn't on that list. It's not much of an incentive for Nick to continue making new TMNT shows and episodes, if reruns of Spongebob pulls in more of an audience. :ohwell:

The reason I state "reruns" of Spongebob is because only 11 new episodes of Spongebob aired in 2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SpongeBob_SquarePants_episodes#Season_9_.2 82012.E2.80.93present.29), but yet Spongebob is taking up 43 of the 50 spots within the Top 50 list. The merchandising and toyline might be the life preserver that's keeping the series on, and I'm sure it is successful, but I have my suspicions as to how successful it is though (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1365464#post1365464).

[ssjup81]

Spongebob takes up 43 out of 50 slots? That's insane!:o

I wonder how Rugrats did back in the day. The show wasn't all that popular when it started and went into a hiatus. It was rerun a lot...seemingly. I didn't care though, because I liked the show so much. As a matter of fact, when Nickelodeon announced the station would start showing Nicktoons that fall, the only one I was the most interested in was Rugrats. I was sitting on the couch for the premiere as I'd anticipated it all summer! Good memories. lol

Anywho, Rugrats became popular in reruns.

See, most of these stations now (Nickelodeon, Disney Channel) had more variety back then. I highly, and seriously doubt, no popular show at that time would've taken up 43 slots out of 50 for rankings.

[neatoman]

How the hell can a single show take up 86% of a channel's content? What kind of bizarre policies do they have?

[Warhorse]

How the hell can a single show take up 86% of a channel's content? What kind of bizarre policies do they have?

If I'm not mistaken, Nick is owned by the same company that owns MTV, a channel that once played music videos. Now, all it plays is stupid reality shows. It should change it's name from MTV to RTV.

In reality though, some exec at Nick probably came up with the idea for Spongebob, and is making sure it's front and center on the network, that way he has something to keep stroking his ego with.

[kolaida]

If I'm not mistaken, Nick is owned by the same company that owns MTV, a channel that once played music videos. Now, all it plays is stupid reality shows. It should change it's name from MTV to RTV.

In reality though, some exec at Nick probably came up with the idea for Spongebob, and is making sure it's front and center on the network, that way he has something to keep stroking his ego with.

I don't know, I can't figure out why SpongeBob is so massively huge even now with reruns. It is the show that knocked Rugrats off its throne. The show second to SpongeBob is, apparently, The Fairly Oddparents ( they are still making this show, too?).

I just don't get it. I thought these shows would have gone the way of Rocko's Modern Life, CatDog, Hey Arnold!, etc by now. Without SpongeBob, Turtles was 10 in 2013 (after Fairly Odddparents). And I don't know of this should be in the ratings thread or here, seems like they are starting to overlap.

I just don't understand how SpongeBob is still so big.

[IndigoErth]

I just don't understand how SpongeBob is still so big.
Yeah, it's odd. I don't dislike the show, it's certainly better than all that newer junk they have now and advertise for like crazy, but the reruns have been getting old for a long time and odd it stays so on top with new ones so rarely happening. Though it's Nick's golden child I guess. Still.

Heck, I was seeing what Nick.com had in the way of fun Halloween-related games and the majority are Spongbob themed. Maybe most came out in previous years... but still. (There's ONE Turtles one, I'd like another, that isn't just a top down view of tiny pixeled characters.)

[Jephael]

After Disney pulled the plug on The Spectacular Spider-Man, I wouldn't be too surprised if it happened to this show.

[Donnieangelo]

I don't know, I can't figure out why SpongeBob is so massively huge even now with reruns. It is the show that knocked Rugrats off its throne. The show second to SpongeBob is, apparently, The Fairly Oddparents ( they are still making this show, too?).

I just don't get it. I thought these shows would have gone the way of Rocko's Modern Life, CatDog, Hey Arnold!, etc by now. Without SpongeBob, Turtles was 10 in 2013 (after Fairly Odddparents). And I don't know of this should be in the ratings thread or here, seems like they are starting to overlap.

I just don't understand how SpongeBob is still so big.
And apparently at the Kid's Choice Awards, they make it seem like he got lot's of votes but actually... they sort of.... rigged it. That doesn't seem fair. It makes it feel like this awards show is now a joke.

DARN YOU, SPONGEBOB! :x

[Warhorse]

And apparently at the Kid's Choice Awards, they make it seem like he got lot's of votes but actually... they sort of.... rigged it. That doesn't seem fair. It makes it feel like this awards show is now a joke.

DARN YOU, SPONGEBOB! :x

I'm telling you! Some CEO exectutive at Nick invented the thing, and they are going to make damn sure that his invention is number one at the site, just so he can use it for his own ego. He probably will use it to further explain why he should be the head of Nick, because he created the number one character/franchise there. In fact, when TMNT first came on, it looked like TMNT would be the ones to finally dethrone Spongebob, and look what happened. Their times slots started to change. When you do that, you lose viewers. More than likely, whoever is in charge of that is the one who invented/green lit Spongebob to begin with. With Nick owning all of the TMNT programming, I don't see why they don't show all three cartoons, just so they can get more publicity for the franchise. When people go to Comic Con, how big is the TMNT booth compared to the other Nick booths?

[Luckyday]

I'm telling you! Some CEO exectutive at Nick invented the thing, and they are going to make damn sure that his invention is number one at the site, just so he can use it for his own ego. He probably will use it to further explain why he should be the head of Nick, because he created the number one character/franchise there. In fact, when TMNT first came on, it looked like TMNT would be the ones to finally dethrone Spongebob, and look what happened. Their times slots started to change. When you do that, you lose viewers. More than likely, whoever is in charge of that is the one who invented/green lit Spongebob to begin with. With Nick owning all of the TMNT programming, I don't see why they don't show all three cartoons, just so they can get more publicity for the franchise. When people go to Comic Con, how big is the TMNT booth compared to the other Nick booths?

I don't think Stephen Hillenburg controls Nick.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah... I seriously doubt tmnt would dethrone the sponge. That's just crazy. The most they can do is hope to be number 2 or even number 3 as far as Korra is concerned.

[Donnieangelo]

I'm telling you! Some CEO exectutive at Nick invented the thing, and they are going to make damn sure that his invention is number one at the site, just so he can use it for his own ego. He probably will use it to further explain why he should be the head of Nick, because he created the number one character/franchise there. In fact, when TMNT first came on, it looked like TMNT would be the ones to finally dethrone Spongebob, and look what happened. Their times slots started to change. When you do that, you lose viewers. More than likely, whoever is in charge of that is the one who invented/green lit Spongebob to begin with. With Nick owning all of the TMNT programming, I don't see why they don't show all three cartoons, just so they can get more publicity for the franchise. When people go to Comic Con, how big is the TMNT booth compared to the other Nick booths?
I was just looking at past winners of the KCA and the TMNT won three awards for the first cartoon. I can't believe no one even noticed!

[Warhorse]

I was looking at the ratings for each episode on wikipedia, it might just be me, but it seems that the episodes with Karai in them tend to do stronger in the ratins. In season one, the show was averaging 3.5 million viewers, when all of a sudden they started to drop to 2.6 beginning with episode 13. They wouldn't see it climb back up to 3 million until Karai's Vendetta. Now, in season 2, when Karai got mutated and has been barely seen since, the show has slipped into the 1.3 million views. Like it or not, but Karai looks to have been a huge favorite with the viewing audience, and now that she's been taken out, why should they watch? They need to bring back Karai, in order to save the series. I really believe that now.

[pannoni1]

If it weren't for the 1990 Movie's success, CBS would have not picked up the show after its original 65 episodes, and the OT would have gone the way of Gobots and Biker Mice from Mars in terms of lasting popularity with only a small niche following today. Much of the 4kids era was supported off of Playmates and the fact that the budget for that series/network wasn't as high as Nick's, and that only died due to executive meddling and Fast Forward/BTTS. I still find TMNT popular; just yesterday at a restaurant I saw a boy with an orange Nick-era shirt. That said, Nick is taking a big risk with this season and naturally this will shy away the "fast food" people who prefer the same old characters, Shredder, Krang, Karai, Leatherhead, the Foot, and this was part of the reason why the movie did well commercially relative to the reviews that were given. This "reboot" formula also works with Power Rangers and Pokemon, giving new freshness yet allowing storylines to last for a limited time and often reduces filler and increases the action. I wouldn't mind TMNT going the way of Transformers, especially since the Teenage in the title implies that the show can only last several years before its out of sync. Many comic books nowadays start over with #1 as well, and IDW was TMNT's ode to this trend started by Superman.

[Refractive Reflections]

I was looking at the ratings for each episode on wikipedia, it might just be me, but it seems that the episodes with Karai in them tend to do stronger in the ratins. In season one, the show was averaging 3.5 million viewers, when all of a sudden they started to drop to 2.6 beginning with episode 13. They wouldn't see it climb back up to 3 million until Karai's Vendetta. Now, in season 2, when Karai got mutated and has been barely seen since, the show has slipped into the 1.3 million views. Like it or not, but Karai looks to have been a huge favorite with the viewing audience, and now that she's been taken out, why should they watch? They need to bring back Karai, in order to save the series. I really believe that now.

It's not just Karai, but a lot of the Splinter-Shredder feud weighs on her character. So I think there comes with it the expectation of seeing the Shredder-Splinter feud progress somewhere (and with the series in progressing somewhere) unlike most of the mutant of the week episodes.

If it weren't for the 1990 Movie's success, CBS would have not picked up the show after its original 65 episodes, and the OT would have gone the way of Gobots and Biker Mice from Mars in terms of lasting popularity with only a small niche following today. Much of the 4kids era was supported off of Playmates and the fact that the budget for that series/network wasn't as high as Nick's, and that only died due to executive meddling and Fast Forward/BTTS.

I seriously doubt that, the OT was one (if not number one) of the most watched cartoons in 1989 (before the movie), with mind-blowing merchandise sales (i.e. video game, arcade, clothes, toy line, etc.) It still would have been too lucrative for CBS to pass up if the 1990 movie failed, and the cartoon's popularity would have certainly been much bigger than Gobots or Biker Mice from Mars.

[snake]

I find it stupid that some people may only be tuning in for certain characters. What's the point?

[Warhorse]

I find it stupid that some people may only be tuning in for certain characters. What's the point?

Hey, if they killed off Raphael, I'd probably stop watching the show too. I don't think it makes anyone stupid, they just get that attached to a particular character, and if that character isn't on anymore, can't blame them for just losing interest and finding something else to watch. It happens.

[IndigoErth]

Hey, if they killed off Raphael, I'd probably stop watching the show too. I don't think it makes anyone stupid, they just get that attached to a particular character, and if that character isn't on anymore, can't blame them for just losing interest and finding something else to watch. It happens.
Likewise. Or if Leo was really out of the picture for multiple episodes... I might still turn in, and I'm sure fans of other Turtles might be just fine with having him out of the way :ohwell:, but my enthusiasm would certainly be lower for the duration.

Some like them all equally, some have favorites. *shrug* Though I'd still quite miss any of the other three as well were it them.

[neatoman]

If it weren't for the 1990 Movie's success, CBS would have not picked up the show after its original 65 episodes, and the OT would have gone the way of Gobots and Biker Mice from Mars in terms of lasting popularity with only a small niche following today.

I could see the fourth season having been greenlit because of the movie, but why the rest of the seasons?

[ssjup81]

Likewise. Or if Leo was really out of the picture for multiple episodes... I might still turn in, and I'm sure fans of other Turtles might be just fine with having him out of the way :ohwell:, but my enthusiasm would certainly be lower for the duration.

Some like them all equally, some have favorites. *shrug* Though I'd still quite miss any of the other three as well were it them.I'm the same. I'd still tune in because the others would be around and I would be curious as to how they would cope over such a loss.