Cannibus legalized in Alaska, Was., and Oregon

[turtlefanforever]

:tgrin:finally some good news in current events. Voters last night voted in favor of legalizing Marijuana in Alaska, Oregon, and washington. Anyway. Just another step forward. Florida failed to legalize medicinal use because of some bs 60% margin in place. They still voted in favor of it but failed to reach the mark at just 58% in favor. Discuss! :tgrin:

[Cure]

DC is not in Maryland or any state.

[Wingnut]

Congress will shoot down DC's legalization...Maybe a medical-only provision similar to Illinois.

Not trying to be a Dale Gribble conspiracy theorist, but I'd say the endgame is Big Pharma conducting a ruthless take over of this emerging cash-only industry. Books will be cooked thoroughly. Just give it time.

[turtlefanforever]

the people are voting it in but theres still a war against it. The tax on these retailers is much higher than any other business. instead of 30-40% they are getting 80-90% and some cases people have been taxed OVER 100%

[Wingnut]

the people are voting it in but theres still a war against it. The tax on these retailers is much higher than any other business. instead of 30-40% they are getting 80-90% and some cases people have been taxed OVER 100%
True. However since no federally insured bank (i.e. any legit bank) can touch that money you can bet the retailers are keeping their fair share. I would too.

From a financial standpoint, it's the wild west.

[BubblyShell22]

Here's the way I feel about recreational marijuana use: If you smoke it in the privacy of your own home, that's fine. But if you're driving under the influence, that's not cool, and I can see this happening now that it's legalized. I have nothing against medical marijuana as I see the uses of it and how it can benefit people, but this stuff is just like alcohol. If you abuse it, you should still go to jail whether it's legal or not.

[Netkeeper]

Wrong, sorry. Marijuana is not the same as alcohol. Go read up on the effects before saying they're the same.

[Gunpowder]

Here's the way I feel about recreational marijuana use: If you smoke it in the privacy of your own home, that's fine. But if you're driving under the influence, that's not cool, and I can see this happening now that it's legalized. I have nothing against medical marijuana as I see the uses of it and how it can benefit people, but this stuff is just like alcohol. If you abuse it, you should still go to jail whether it's legal or not.

It's true that abusing it isn't good, but you have to realize that weed affects you ENTIRELY differently than alcohol does. For one thing, when you're high, you don't feel like driving because that requires walking to your car. When was the last time you heard about a car wreck because the driver was high? Probably not recently or ever, because people who smoke marijuana (even if they decide to drive while impaired) are more slow and careful about that kind of thing. Whereas, when you're drunk, you're on top of the world and feel like you can do anything, which of course leads to driving somewhere, and doing so extremely recklessly. And therein lies the danger.

[Netkeeper]

Exactly. When you're high, you just want to sit on the couch and eat ****in' doritos. **** doesn't harm anybody.

[Leo656]

Sometimes it's a matter of practicality and real-life. I used to have the same hard-line stance about toking and driving until I realized that people do it ALL the time, EVERY place you go. My first day on my second-ever job, I got sent out on a sheet rock delivery, and within two minutes of being on the road the driver started rolling a joint on the steering wheel. Being a pretty straight and kind of naive 17-year old kid, I was shocked and appalled and all that, and we actually had a small argument about it. It became clear very quickly that firstly, I was a dumb kid and knew nothing about the real world, secondly, 9.9 out of 10 CDL drivers are blazed CONSTANTLY, thirdly, it wasn't a huge secret to anyone but me, and finally, I could go ahead and try and rat him out (which I wouldn't have anyway), but basically, I'd have been fired for not being a "team player" since as a CDL driver with many years experience, the company would never even think of letting him go for something as trivial as smoking weed, even "on the job". I was replaceable, he wasn't, and that was that, so if I didn't like it, I better get good at holding my breath.

Once I got into the moving business, that was the "real" education. Here's a dirty little secret: The guys moving your house are stoned. The guys doing landscaping on your yard are stoned. The guy fixing your toilet is stoned. The guys renovating your kitchen are stoned. The guy installing your cable is (probably) stoned. Long story short: If someone has a job where they're "on a site" most of the day, far away from their boss, and they spend almost half their day driving, they're smoking pot every available second that they can usually because they can. You can pretty much also guarantee, they literally took their last hit the very second they parked in front of your house. It gets worse, so count yourself lucky if that's "all" they're doing. I seen plenty of guys do blow off the steering wheel, or even off the customer's dresser once it was on the truck. Not to mention how many people "tip" their service workers with a cold beer; lots of people in those professions are 99% definitely stoned, but there's a decent chance they're buzzed or even half-drunk, too, depending how many appointments they have to keep in a day.

You need a pretty strong head to put up with those jobs. I've watched kids come right out of high school, never even had a drop of alcohol, but they're completely f*cked up on a million things after 6 months of furniture moving or construction or what have you. It's not even "temptation", it's "This is what you do if you're doing this job"; I had a ton of verbal and even physical arguments with people over the years, and it was a big reason I couldn't wait to get out and don't want to ever go back. Being around people who were constantly f*cked up in a job where substance abuse wasn't even "recreational", it was a way of life, is way too hard for someone who doesn't want anything to do with that stuff.

But anyway, long story short, don't be naive, people drive stoned all the time, and be glad if that's all they're on. And be glad you don't have to be in the vehicle *with them*. I got used to it over time, but not gonna lie, I don't like feeling like I'm not in control of a situation, and even though it was literally an everyday thing, I still was constantly worried that this was going to be the day something happened or someone got pulled over or whatever. Never happened, but it goes to show you how good these cats get to be at fooling people.

[AT-Man]

I've known someone to become violent briefly under influence.

[tmntpower1988]

Exactly. When you're high, you just want to sit on the couch and eat ****in' doritos. **** doesn't harm anybody.

That's so me when I'm stoned can't move at all :lol: Only downfall of it is that it makes me paranoid and jumpy. Haven't smoked weed in a few years. Wouldn't appeal to me now tbh

[DarkFell]

Sometimes it's a matter of practicality and real-life. I used to have the same hard-line stance about toking and driving until I realized that people do it ALL the time, EVERY place you go. My first day on my second-ever job, I got sent out on a sheet rock delivery, and within two minutes of being on the road the driver started rolling a joint on the steering wheel. Being a pretty straight and kind of naive 17-year old kid, I was shocked and appalled and all that, and we actually had a small argument about it. It became clear very quickly that firstly, I was a dumb kid and knew nothing about the real world, secondly, 9.9 out of 10 CDL drivers are blazed CONSTANTLY, thirdly, it wasn't a huge secret to anyone but me, and finally, I could go ahead and try and rat him out (which I wouldn't have anyway), but basically, I'd have been fired for not being a "team player" since as a CDL driver with many years experience, the company would never even think of letting him go for something as trivial as smoking weed, even "on the job". I was replaceable, he wasn't, and that was that, so if I didn't like it, I better get good at holding my breath.

Once I got into the moving business, that was the "real" education. Here's a dirty little secret: The guys moving your house are stoned. The guys doing landscaping on your yard are stoned. The guy fixing your toilet is stoned. The guys renovating your kitchen are stoned. The guy installing your cable is (probably) stoned. Long story short: If someone has a job where they're "on a site" most of the day, far away from their boss, and they spend almost half their day driving, they're smoking pot every available second that they can usually because they can. You can pretty much also guarantee, they literally took their last hit the very second they parked in front of your house. It gets worse, so count yourself lucky if that's "all" they're doing. I seen plenty of guys do blow off the steering wheel, or even off the customer's dresser once it was on the truck. Not to mention how many people "tip" their service workers with a cold beer; lots of people in those professions are 99% definitely stoned, but there's a decent chance they're buzzed or even half-drunk, too, depending how many appointments they have to keep in a day.

You need a pretty strong head to put up with those jobs. I've watched kids come right out of high school, never even had a drop of alcohol, but they're completely f*cked up on a million things after 6 months of furniture moving or construction or what have you. It's not even "temptation", it's "This is what you do if you're doing this job"; I had a ton of verbal and even physical arguments with people over the years, and it was a big reason I couldn't wait to get out and don't want to ever go back. Being around people who were constantly f*cked up in a job where substance abuse wasn't even "recreational", it was a way of life, is way too hard for someone who doesn't want anything to do with that stuff.

But anyway, long story short, don't be naive, people drive stoned all the time, and be glad that's not all they're on. And be glad you don't have to be in the vehicle *with them*. I got used to it over time, but not gonna lie, I don't like feeling like I'm not in control of a situation, and even though it was literally an everyday thing, I still was constantly worried that this was going to be the day something happened or someone got pulled over or whatever. Never happened, but it goes to show you how good these cats get to be at fooling people.
Too true Leo. I've heard from a bud that is also a drummer for the various bands that he plays with that he has runned into people that doob while they're on the way to their next town to city to play at simply because they're basically riding in a vehicle all day with nothing much to really do. Same thing might and probably does apply with other well known bands and musicians.

[Netkeeper]

I've known someone to become violent briefly under influence.
Under the influence of what?

[AT-Man]

Under the influence of what?

Marijuana.

[Netkeeper]

Marijuana.
http://i.imgur.com/2n1wMes.gif

[Leo656]

That'd be odd. I mean, part of what's "bad" about weed is that it affects people differently and it's kind of unpredictable, but it's almost unheard-of for someone to have an aggressive or angry reaction unless they were also-drunk, in which case it's not the weed that's the problem.

Also the possibility the weed was laced. Some people put cocaine or PCP in their joints, and obviously either of those things can make someone violent.

Just spitballing. I've never seen anyone get violent on weed and I've been around a much higher than average amount of stoners. Once when someone else threw out the rest of their stash, but that was kind of understandable. Mostly people just get lethargic and/or stupid. Neither of those things lend themselves well to confrontation.

[AT-Man]

It was surprising and she hadn't drunk alcohol prior that. But so far I've witnessed it happen once, even though it didn't take long and she was taken home soon after. Heard her saying later that she experienced some kind of existential crisis and thought she was in Hell and would only hear my and one another guy's voices for all eternity. :lol:

[Leo656]

Oh, it was a chick. Why didn't you say so.

It had nothing to do with weed, chicks are just f*cking nuts regardless. Chicks on weed are more nuts, that's just, like, math, duuuuude.

(And if that story is true, your friend was either making it up for attention because she had never smoked before and wanted to seem "cool", or else, definitely tripping on something else as well. But most likely the first thing. People who get "drunk" or "high" for the first time have no idea what they're supposed to be experiencing so sometimes they exaggerate the effects to "prove" they're really feeling it. Usually if they're, like, 12.)

[Wingnut]

A rare, literal, case of Reefer Madness. I'll be damned.

[AT-Man]

That must be it. She even took only one or two puffs. Whatever the case, I have no reason to believe she would be lying.

[Leo656]

A rare, literal, case of Reefer Madness. I'll be damned.


The only "Reefer Madness" I've ever seen was someone coming down with an overwhelming craving for a sack of BK Chicken Whoppers.

....and now I went and f*cked everything up for all of us in this thread. WHY DID THEY STOP MAKING CHICKEN WHOPPERS?! Reading between the lines of the comments, I feel pretty certain more than half the people in here are wondering the same thing I am and wanting to kill whoever made the call to kill off the Chicken Whopper.

"It's always 4:20 somewhere", is the gist of what I'm tiptoeing around. :lol:

That must be it. She even took only one or two puffs. Whatever the case, I have no reason to believe she would be lying.

Two puffs won't even make most people cough, she was definitely hamming it up for attention. That's barely enough to make the average housecat walk in a crooked circle before tumbling sideways and taking a brief nap.

[Netkeeper]

It was surprising and she hadn't drunk alcohol prior that. But so far I've witnessed it happen once, even though it didn't take long and she was taken home soon after. Heard her saying later that she experienced some kind of existential crisis and thought she was in Hell and would only hear my and one another guy's voices for all eternity. :lol:
Sounds like my first experience with shrooms.

[Leo656]

You kids and your drugs. That sh*t scares me.

[tmntpower1988]

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lukoydXDQS1qm1nsyo1_400.jpg

[turtlefanforever]

this is a nice conversation. I like this. People being civil and reasonable. Wish it'd happen around here more often.

[blindturtle02]

Ah jeez, I got the munchies just reading this thread, and I've never even been stoned. That bit about reefer madness cracked me up. I tend to find things funny enough as it is, so I'd probably be laughing for hours if I ever got stoned. Not happening, even though my brother does think it'd be funny as hell to watch. I'd let some other blind person do it and observe them. Huh, I wonder what would happen if they tried their hand at art, music, or poetry while stoned and if they were already proficient at the last two? Genuinely curious. Would anyone see the beauty in it after coming down? lol Well, worked for the Beatles with I Am The Walrus and Strawberry Fields.

Funny you should mention this stuff becoming legal, TFF. Now I got that one autotune the news segment by Shmoyoho stuck in my head. "A dark dark best day I ever had!"

[Leo656]

I don't know how I'd be able to say for certain.. but...

I kind of think maybe sometimes people in pop culture and the media exaggerate weed's effects a little bit, or more. No idea how I'd know for sure... but I've heard... that it's not quite like the movies make it seem.

Actually, no, wait, I do know people like that. Huh. I'unno. I'unno how it works then.

[Peanut]

Cannabis was invented by Frito-Lay (a wholly owned subsidiary of PepsiCo) in the 60's to enhance sales of their delicious* Doritos® brand Tortilla Chips.

Pot smokers everywhere are falling into this trap and lining the pockets of the snack business fat cats. You thought Big Tobacco played hard ball? Look into the money the Snack Lobby is schilling out to keep this gateway1 drug on the streets and now they're writing enough checks to legalize (!) it! When will these sheeple wake up and realize they're just a cog in the machine that is the snack food industry!?

*Authors emphasis
1 Smoking my lead to multiple "gateway" snack habits. These include, but are not limited to - Popping and not stopping. Doing the Dew. Thinking outside the bun and/or heading for the border. Not eating just one. Lovin' It. Having it Your Way.

[Refractive Reflections]

The extent and effort certain portions of the population are going to legalize marijuana use (outside of any medicinal use) is disappointing, just imagine if that same energy was actually used in making social or economic improvements. Oh well... I guess for some, it's more important to get high than improve standards of living.

It's ironic that society has demonized tobacco, but is now welcoming marijuana use. ...Are we just trading one drug for another? :-? It's a little scary as to the societal effects in terms of mental health considering there's an uncertain connection (if there's a correlation versus cause-and-effect) between marijuana use and brain changes and symptoms resembling schizophrenia.

[BubblyShell22]

My fear is that legalizing marijuana for recreational use may lead to legalizing other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. That's not something I want to see at all.

[turtlefanforever]

The extent and effort certain portions of the population are going to legalize marijuana use (outside of any medicinal use) is disappointing, just imagine if that same energy was actually used in making social or economic improvements. Oh well... I guess for some, it's more important to get high than improve standards of living.

It's ironic that society has demonized tobacco, but is now welcoming marijuana use. ...Are we just trading one drug for another? :-? It's a little scary as to the societal effects in terms of mental health considering there's an uncertain connection (if there's a correlation versus cause-and-effect) between marijuana use and brain changes and symptoms resembling schizophrenia.

with all due respect that's a very silly thing to say. Legalizing Marijuana will also open up the hemp market. 1 acre of Hemp yields as much paper as 4 acres of trees. (you know, the things we need to give us oxygen to LIVE) there's a lot of uses to it. I understand if you're a sheltered person and just listen to what people say on tv and uneducated folk, but if you actually look up all the good it does you'd have a very differen't outlook. What benefits does tabaccoo have? I'll tell ya, none! Marijuana? it relaxes folk, hemp is a very useful and cheaper product for a wide array of items. it helps people eat. Helps anxiety, ect. There is no irony. The only thing ironic is saying it's as bad as other drugs and then actually comparing the death rate. 0 to uhhh..how many? millions? oh yeah it's just as bad.. ignorance. :trolleye: But again no offense.

My fear is that legalizing marijuana for recreational use may lead to legalizing other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. That's not something I want to see at all.

that wouldn't happen. There's no benefit to those drugs.

[tmntpower1988]

with all due respect that's a very silly thing to say. Legalizing Marijuana will also open up the hemp market. 1 acre of Hemp yields as much paper as 4 acres of trees. (you know, the things we need to give us oxygen to LIVE) there's a lot of uses to it. I understand if you're a sheltered person and just listen to what people say on tv and uneducated folk, but if you actually look up all the good it does you'd have a very differen't outlook. What benefits does tabaccoo have? I'll tell ya, none! Marijuana? it relaxes folk, hemp is a very useful and cheaper product for a wide array of items. it helps people eat. Helps anxiety, ect. There is no irony. The only thing ironic is saying it's as bad as other drugs and then actually comparing the death rate. 0 to uhhh..how many? millions? oh yeah it's just as bad.. ignorance. :trolleye: But again no offense.



that wouldn't happen. There's no benefit to those drugs.

Society is full of hypocrites. Alcohol causes more deaths than illegal drugs but yet getting drunk all the time is socially acceptable and if you take drugs you're labelled as a scumbag. :roll: When I used to take ecstasy pills people said that I was a scumbag for taking them (even my own mother called me it). :roll: I wasn't doing anybody any harm.

[Refractive Reflections]

with all due respect that's a very silly thing to say. Legalizing Marijuana will also open up the hemp market. 1 acre of Hemp yields as much paper as 4 acres of trees. (you know, the things we need to give us oxygen to LIVE)


C'mon... :lol: like agrarian hemp is going to make a massive improvement to the oxygen levels in our world? So much for the rainforests (like the Amazon) and the unimaginable amounts of phytoplankton (http://earthsky.org/earth/how-much-do-oceans-add-to-worlds-oxygen) then. :lol:

there's a lot of uses to it. I understand if you're a sheltered person and just listen to what people say on tv and uneducated folk, but if you actually look up all the good it does you'd have a very differen't outlook. What benefits does tabaccoo have? I'll tell ya, none! Marijuana? it relaxes folk, hemp is a very useful and cheaper product for a wide array of items. it helps people eat. Helps anxiety, ect. There is no irony. The only thing ironic is saying it's as bad as other drugs and then actually comparing the death rate. 0 to uhhh..how many? millions? oh yeah it's just as bad.. ignorance. :trolleye: But again no offense.


Oh really? :P How would you explain these articles about the hazy, uncertain connection between marijuana use and schizophrenic-like brain changes:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270262.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-126056/How-cannabis-trigger-schizophrenia.html
http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2013/12/marijuana-users-have-abnormal-brain-structure--poor-memory.html
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/teens-who-smoke-pot-at-risk-for-later-schizophrenia-psychosis-201103071676
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/schizophrenia/cannabis-psychosis-link
...Are those people from Northwestern University and Harvard just that "uneducated" then?:lol: If one wants to take that unnecessary cognition and psychological risk for a self-gratifying high, go right ahead, eventually if someone's just that determined for that particular high, they'll reach it.

What benefits does tabaccoo have? I'll tell ya, none!
Here's a silver lining, as thin as it is: http://www.livescience.com/15115-5-health-benefits-smoking-disease.html


If people want to take tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, ecstasy, shrooms, cocaine, or whatever psychoactive substance and whatever amounts, fine. That's their life, their business, and their outcomes to deal and live with. What I'm emphasizing here is that with all the political redtape associated with pursuing in legalizing marijuana (pursing the hundreds of thousands of signatures needed to get it on the ballot, the demonstrations, conferring with politicians, etc.), just imagine if this same fervency was used to improve medical care in the United States...? Or improve social programs? Rather than the pursuit of legalizing a health-questionable form of self-gratification. ...But like I said, I guess for some individuals, I guess getting high is more important than improving the standard of living considering the extent of political work necessary to make such a change. :ohwell:


Edit: By the way, there's research pointing to an association with marijuana use and anxiety problems:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/14/136


The results of the current meta-analysis suggest that anxiety is positively related to cannabis use or cannabis use disorders in cohorts, not in treatment for anxiety or cannabis use disorders, drawn from the general population of 10 countries. These associations were only small in magnitude, but were observed even after controlling for confounding factors (demographics, other substance use, and/or other psychiatric comorbidity). The prospective analysis revealed that cannabis use at baseline was positively associated with anxiety at follow-up. While the causal direction of this relationship could not be established using the available data, this result suggests that even infrequent cannabis use is associated with clinically relevant symptoms of anxiety. Therefore, an appropriate assessment of cannabis use might be necessary for an effective treatment of anxiety disorders.

Plus, a possible association with marijuana use and depression:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23795762


CONCLUSIONS: Cannabis use, and particularly heavy cannabis use, may be associated with an increased risk for developing depressive disorders. There is need for further longitudinal exploration of the association between cannabis use and developing depression, particularly taking into account cumulative exposure to cannabis and potentially significant confounding factors.

[Gunpowder]

My fear is that legalizing marijuana for recreational use may lead to legalizing other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. That's not something I want to see at all.

That won't happen.

[Discogod]

My fear is that legalizing marijuana for recreational use may lead to legalizing other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. That's not something I want to see at all.

Yes, but even if other, harder drugs are legalized, it won't neccessarily lead to an increase in use. There's several countries in Europe where hard drugs have been decriminalized and it's lead to a decrease in use - mainly because people have found it easier to get treatment when they don't also have the risk of getting arrested to think about.

Personally, I'd like to see cannabis legalized over here. I thought it was a step in the right direction when it was declassified a few years back, but the new govenment quickly reversed that decision. I'd estimate that maybe 75% of the people I know smoke, including quite a few people you wouldn't expect (when I used to deal, my customers included a magistrate, several GPs and the then-mayor), but it's never been harder to get hold of the stuff. Busting dealers & grow ops seems to be all the police are focusing on in my area, to the detriment of virtually everything else. Meanwhile, the streets are flooded with cheap coke & smack...

[Netkeeper]

The extent and effort certain portions of the population are going to legalize marijuana use (outside of any medicinal use) is disappointing, just imagine if that same energy was actually used in making social or economic improvements. Oh well... I guess for some, it's more important to get high than improve standards of living.

It's ironic that society has demonized tobacco, but is now welcoming marijuana use. ...Are we just trading one drug for another? :-? It's a little scary as to the societal effects in terms of mental health considering there's an uncertain connection (if there's a correlation versus cause-and-effect) between marijuana use and brain changes and symptoms resembling schizophrenia.
Why don't you take your nonsense and your attitude elsewhere? You act as if people can't... gASP... SUPPORT MULTIPLE CAUSES... no that would be too much... ONLY SUPPORT WEED... NEVER SUPPORT ANYTHING ELSE.

No, we wouldn't be ****ing trading one drug for another. Tobacco is worse. There's literally no benefit to tobacco consumption over marijuana.

I'm not even going to dignify that last bit with a response because you are so painfully uneducated that, perhaps, you should actually consider Googling a few things before further "contribution" to the discussion. Or, preferably, you can just **** off the thread.

My fear is that legalizing marijuana for recreational use may lead to legalizing other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. That's not something I want to see at all.
You clearly know nothing about heroin and cocaine. Or weed, for that matter. Try reading up on what all three of those drugs actually do and you'll see why two of them are some of the worst things you can do to yourself and why marijuana isn't the same as alcohol like you seem to think.

Being straightedge is fine. But blurring all drugs and alcohol together then acting mightier than us for it is just going to piss people off.

[Refractive Reflections]

Why don't you take your nonsense and your attitude elsewhere? You act as if people can't... gASP... SUPPORT MULTIPLE CAUSES... no that would be too much... ONLY SUPPORT WEED... NEVER SUPPORT ANYTHING ELSE.

No, we wouldn't be ****ing trading one drug for another. Tobacco is worse. There's literally no benefit to tobacco consumption over marijuana.



Wow... that reaction said it all right there. :lol: Thank you for your entertaining response.

Again with the time spent legalizing it, why not spend that same time doing something even more beneficial? I mean with all the resources, time, and energy spent on that, why not?


I'm not even going to dignify that last bit with a response because you are so painfully uneducated that, perhaps, you should actually consider Googling a few things before further "contribution" to the discussion. Or, preferably, you can just **** off the thread.


I'm sorry, but I'll take the words of scientists and scholarly research journals concerning the possible harmful effects of marijuana rather than the lay public who want to constantly tout "marijuana does nothing harmful" who have no actual scientific background in the matter.

[BubblyShell22]

You clearly know nothing about heroin and cocaine. Or weed, for that matter. Try reading up on what all three of those drugs actually do and you'll see why two of them are some of the worst things you can do to yourself and why marijuana isn't the same as alcohol like you seem to think.

Being straightedge is fine. But blurring all drugs and alcohol together then acting mightier than us for it is just going to piss people off.


I'm not acting mightier than anybody. I've watched Cops so I know what those drugs can do and how they benefit nobody. Marijuana is fine for medical use, but making it legal for recreational use is just stupid as it benefits nobody in the long run. I agree with RR that our country can do better than that as we have bigger problems facing us than whether to legalize weed for recreational use just so people can sit on their a**ses and get stoned for their own enjoyment. If you want to get stoned, go for it, but you'll probably lose a lot of brain cells in the process just like with alcohol.

[Leo656]

I've been on several sides of the issue in a lifetime. Basically...

- Weed itself probably isn't helping anybody as much as they claim it can, but it can't hurt anybody, either. I mean, it's probably not "harmless", but neither is tap water or grocery-store vegetables, so pick your poison.

- The effects of people being "stoned" on weed are ridiculously exaggerated. It's not as if people who smoke it are "sitting around fried all day", a lot of them are actually at work or elsewhere, functioning normally. It's not an incapacitating narcotic. A person can actually feel a greater "effect" from OTC caffeine pills or energy drinks. to a much greater negative degree, than they might from smoking pot. I wouldn't recommend anyone perform surgery under the influence of it necessarily, but half the people on this very forum are on some sort of (necessary) doctor-prescribed pharmaceutical that is potentially having way more of a negative effect on your mood, your brain and your liver than smoking pot would, so some people may want to open their minds a little bit on this one. I used to be a hard-liner, too, and I disdain drugs in general, but on the whole, weed is like, barely anything. If someone has a glass of champagne on New Year's Eve, they're literally more "messed up" already than someone who smoked a joint. We don't yell at those cats, right?

Granted, there are some folks who do nothing but sit around and make the snack chip people rich, but one day they're gonna work for Cartoon Network and bring us more terrific shows like Aqua Teen, so let's give 'em some slack. :)

- The legalization issue makes me wary just because of how insincere it is. I mean, yeah, people are touting the supposed health benefits, but let's just say it plain: people just wanna smoke it, and this is their way of making it so they can, and they get to pretend it's for a cause rather than self-interest. I mean, most girls I know smoke it and universally swear it helps with some of their "issues" every few weeks, and the migraines, and things like that. So I can see the upside, but the "wink-wink" way people are touting its "benefits" like it's a health food is a little annoying, and I think it pushes people's buttons in a negative way, because I don't think they're fooling anyone. The push for legalization is less about "compassion for people in pain", and entirely, "Get off my back already, maaaaaan," and I can see why some people are opposed to that. I'm not at all against it being legal, provided actual narcotics remain an entirely separate issue, but not on the insubstantial medical/health-related grounds. Just because the prohibition against it is more trouble than it's worth at this point and if alcohol remains legal - and it should - then marijuana, which is far more benign, should be legal as well.

As to whether or not the energy and effort could be better spent elsewhere, like on curing diseases rather than legalizing pot? Well, yeah, absolutely, but those kinds of Big Problems require more effort and sacrifice than anyone wants to ever give. I've said before, we could solve the homeless problem in America inside a couple years, just get rid of all the golf courses and build low-income housing. Things seem so easy when you look at the Big Picture, but the reality is that those kinds of things aren't what society likes to put its work towards. Should they? Yeah, absolutely, but you have to pick your battles sometimes.

[Refractive Reflections]

I've been on several sides of the issue in a lifetime. Basically...

- Weed itself probably isn't helping anybody as much as they claim it can, but it can't hurt anybody, either. I mean, it's probably not "harmless", but neither is tap water or grocery-store vegetables, so pick your poison.

That's a bit extreme comparing marijuana and the food we consume (tap water or grocery-store vegetables), I mean yes there are possible pollutants and pesticides, but there's a substantial difference there where people have to consume water and vegetables to fulfill their nutritional needs. Using marijuana in this sense is optional, I don't think there's a "nutritional necessity" in consuming marijuana.

I really don't get the "it can't hurt anybody" argument. Relatively speaking, of course if you compare that to cocaine, heroin, and strong opiates, but when there are scientists and researchers indicating there's an uncertain, possible link to marijuana use and mental illness as I posted above, who am I actually going to trust now? Average individuals who claim "it doesn't harm them", or scientifically-oriented individuals who have spent many years, maybe even decade(s), studying and researching the effect of psychoactive chemicals on human physiology?

I'd rather someone just honestly say "I wanna get high" rather than arrogantly state they know better than the scientists and researchers on this matter.

As to whether or not the energy and effort could be better spent elsewhere, like on curing diseases rather than legalizing pot? Well, yeah, absolutely, but those kinds of Big Problems require more effort and sacrifice than anyone wants to ever give. I've said before, we could solve the homeless problem in America inside a couple years, just get rid of all the golf courses and build low-income housing. Things seem so easy when you look at the Big Picture, but the reality is that those kinds of things aren't what society likes to put its work towards. Should they? Yeah, absolutely, but you have to pick your battles sometimes.

Those particular individuals have certainly chose their battles, I mean you hear the general public complaining about how horrible things are, and how some wish we could have the positive political changes that the early to mid 1900s brought, and when there's some form of political activism and energy in the populace, ...it leads to legalizing marijuana?? I mean we all have a finite amount of time, resources, and money on our hands and I think we can all agree that our lives have been busier, but it certainly indicates that out of all the problems our society faces, this is implicitly considered a higher priority to address than other societal injustices? ...Okay then:ohwell:

[Candy Kappa]

Using marijuana in this sense is optional, I don't think there's a "nutritional necessity" in consuming marijuana.


So is alcohol and tobacco, yet they are legal for consumption. At least Marijuana have medical benefits for those who need the effect it gives.

Just because it's being legalized for either medical purposes or recreation; does not mean it won't or shouldn't be regulated with age restriction and warning labels like with Alcohol and Tobacco.

And, legalizing it means better control of the drug, easier access so the users don't go via shady and illegal contacts, which makes it safer and healthier for the user, as well as not funding said shady contacts for whatever they else would work with (like harder drugs, illegal weapons human trafficking).

[turtlefanforever]

I really don't get the "it can't hurt anybody" argument. Relatively speaking, of course if you compare that to cocaine, heroin, and strong opiates, but when there are scientists and researchers indicating there's an uncertain, possible link to marijuana use and mental illness as I posted above, .Okay then:ohwell:

"uncertain" "possible" drink your own Kool-Aid there bub.

[Refractive Reflections]

So is alcohol and tobacco, yet they are legal for consumption. At least Marijuana have medical benefits for those who need the effect it gives.

Just because it's being legalized for either medical purposes or recreation; does not mean it won't or shouldn't be regulated with age restriction and warning labels like with Alcohol and Tobacco.

And, legalizing it means better control of the drug, easier access so the users don't go via shady and illegal contacts, which makes it safer and healthier for the user, as well as not funding said shady contacts for whatever they else would work with (like harder drugs, illegal weapons human trafficking).

That's true too in regards to tobacco and alcohol that they have no "nutritional necessity". But as my previous posts were saying, I'm talking about outside of medicinal use:
The extent and effort certain portions of the population are going to legalize marijuana use (outside of any medicinal use) is disappointing, just imagine if that same energy was actually used in making social or economic improvements. Oh well... I guess for some, it's more important to get high than improve standards of living.

In that post you responded to (when I was responding to Leo656), I was mentioning are we really going to classify marijuana in the same category as tap water and grocery-store vegetables in having the same "innocuous" outcome (as in "it can't hurt anybody")? And lump into the same "nutritional" necessity as tap water and grocery-store vegetables which, in the process of consumption, causes people to be exposed to possible chemicals and pesticides?


"uncertain" "possible" drink your own Kool-Aid there bub.
At least I provided credible sources for my argument that there is a correlation, unlike your own argument. And what have you provided exactly in terms of support for your argument? Your personal subjective opinion? :lol: Yeah... that's very convincing random internet person. :roll:

It's funny that you ironically prided yourself on "people being civil" on this thread:
this is a nice conversation. I like this. People being civil and reasonable. Wish it'd happen around here more often.

So when somebody has a strong disagreement with your own opinion, you make remarks like this:
with all due respect that's a very silly thing to say. Legalizing Marijuana will also open up the hemp market. 1 acre of Hemp yields as much paper as 4 acres of trees. (you know, the things we need to give us oxygen to LIVE) there's a lot of uses to it. I understand if you're a sheltered person and just listen to what people say on tv and uneducated folk, but if you actually look up all the good it does you'd have a very differen't outlook. What benefits does tabaccoo have? I'll tell ya, none! Marijuana? it relaxes folk, hemp is a very useful and cheaper product for a wide array of items. it helps people eat. Helps anxiety, ect. There is no irony. The only thing ironic is saying it's as bad as other drugs and then actually comparing the death rate. 0 to uhhh..how many? millions? oh yeah it's just as bad.. ignorance. :trolleye: But again no offense.

and this:
"uncertain" "possible" drink your own Kool-Aid there bub.
Apparently if people agree with you, it's a "civil and reasonable" conversation, but if others don't (and actually provide credible sources) you resort to belittlement. Next time just say you want people to agree with you in your thread, instead of giving the false impression that you want actual discussion and debate over the topic.


Like I said before, if people want to take whatever psychoactive substance they want, fine, but let's not be in a state of denial about what the science may be hinting toward. It's amazing that here I'm presenting the results of scientific studies concerning marijuana and it's possible harmful effects, and some just can't accept what science presents to them. If people want to stick their heads in the sand and take lay public hearsay rather than the words of scientists and researchers concerning human health, go ahead, but clearly it indicates that scientific knowledge is not a priority in understanding the world, or in this case, human health.

[Wingnut]

But as my previous posts were saying, I'm talking about outside of medicinal use

A pleasure seeking activity with possible repercussions? Unheard of.


When someone ODs on weed lemme know.

[Gunpowder]

This thread was bound to lead to arguing. Look, the thing about weed is that it's only as harmful as you allow it to be. It's not chemically addictive (don't try to tell me it is), so it's entirely up to the user as to whether it becomes a go-to source of pleasure. Abusing it won't cause death, but it'll deprive you of any motivation for a long time; using it recreationally will give you a bit of down-time, then let you get back to your regular routine the next day.

The health benefits are minimal, but the bottom line is that it isn't dangerous (unless you consider a hindrance of productivity to be dangerous, which, in a sense, it is). But not physically or lethally. Can't say the same for alcohol - but the latter sure seems to get more love, doesn't it?

[Wingnut]

This thread was bound to lead to arguing. Look, the thing about weed is that it's only as harmful as you allow it to be. It's not chemically addictive (don't try to tell me it is), so it's entirely up to the user as to whether it becomes a go-to source of pleasure. Abusing it won't cause death, but it'll deprive you of any motivation for a long time; using it recreationally will give you a bit of down-time, then let you get back to your regular routine the next day.

The health benefits are minimal, but the bottom line is that it isn't dangerous (unless you consider a hindrance of productivity to be dangerous, which, in a sense, it is). But not physically or lethally. Can't say the same for alcohol - but the latter sure seems to get more love, doesn't it?
Well said. Sums it up completely.

So......

Does anyone want to argue about the effects legalization could have on the prison industrial complex? :lol:

[Slade]

Well said. Sums it up completely.

So......

Does anyone want to argue about the effects legalization could have on the prison industrial complex? :lol:

As far as allowing it in? I know federal will never allow it. Talked about it during training. Higher ups said never.