Brad Fuller talks about the TMNT Movie [Archive]

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 04:09 PM

Just noticed this new interview with Brad Fully talking about the TMNT movie, Here's what he had to say about it.
http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/11/07/brad-fuller-talks-tmnt-ouija-found-footage-and-more-2412608?lt_source=external,manual,manual

I don’t know a single kid who did not like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

That’s nice. That’s awesome, because that’s who we made it for and I’m glad. I keep hearing that it’s more gratifying than saying we scared the crap out of people with Jason Voorhees.

I imagine you are not used to little kids coming up to you talking about Platinum Dune’s films.

[Laughs] Yeah. That wasn’t happening. But also, we really wanted to try and start to do things that were a little bit outside our comfort zone. Obviously Turtles was way outside our comfort zone. So it’s nice that it worked out well.

We talked right before you made Turtles, actually. A lot of the discussion was about how, at Platinum Dunes, you guys hadn’t taken those big swings yet, the ones that end you up in jail or make huge money. What did you glean from the experience?

I would tell you this. You don’t know if you are going to end up in jail until the day the movie opens. If you had talked to me the day before, I was a wreck. There’s no way that you can ever predict the success of any movie. Especially on Turtles, I don’t know that we knew when we went into it how many people felt so….I guess we knew how many people felt passionately about it. But what was hard was as we got in the process of making the movie, so many people had different foundations of the Turtle knowledge. I was a guy who watched the movies. So that was what I used as my basis of understanding for the Turtles. But Drew read the comic books, so he had different things that he saw as Turtle lure. And then there were plenty of people who watched the cartoon. I’m too old for that. Drew and I are too old, so we didn’t watch the cartoon. So what we learned and what was hard to manage is forget the kid, because the kids didn’t really have the background. But the adults, the people who loved this property for so many years, they come to it with so much different knowledge. There’s not a unifying place that they came from. That was challenging.
The film was made directly for the Kids, Which I have no problem with, The previous films were also kids movies as well.

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 04:36 PM

I would tell you this. You don’t know if you are going to end up in jail until the day the movie opens.
Hmmm... I didn't know jail was an option.

Joking aside, yeah, I have no issue if they make a film in a way that includes kids in mind as part of the intended audience. Part. With a property like this, don't forget the adult fans however. Seriously. Because deciding to trap TMNT in the binds of "just a kid's thing" mentality yet again (which they deserve to be free of) and ignore adult fans who have a much longer, deeper love for the franchise... Well that's like taking all the people who were at Woodstock, telling them there will be another Woodstock - oh, but it's only going to feature Justin Beibier and what ever singing Disney tv kids they can fill it with. Don't be surprised if you crush a few hearts in the process who let it be known.

Candy Kappa

11-12-2014, 04:58 PM

By kids, I assume Fuller meant the adult viewer who remembered saying Cowabunga as a kid, and could finally say again with the Turtles, and had a crush on April.

"Shell's tightening, I call dibs on her"

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 05:20 PM

I'm beginning to hate Brad Fuller.

They all belong in jail.

And screw that interviewer as well. Ass kissing is the benchmark of citizen journalism. Somebody grow some balls and ask the real questions. They never say outright what needs to be said.

Kids will watch almost anything. They could have dug a little deeper. Kids watched Barney. Kids are not the yardstick to measure success for a 30 year old property. If they'd pleased the adults, the kids would still love it. Massive cop out.

This whole interview makes me angry. Arrest the fools already.

Powder

11-12-2014, 05:22 PM

Sexual harassment, terrorism, horrifically ugly heroes who are "drained of all their blood", yeah, sounds like a kids movie!

CyberCubed

11-12-2014, 05:25 PM

so he had different things that he saw as Turtle lure.

LOL, you know this guy is a real scumbag when he spelled "lore" as "lure."

Shark_Blade

11-12-2014, 05:29 PM

Too old for cartoon? Lazy explanation for like 20 minutes of effortless research imo...

TurtleTitan97

11-12-2014, 05:32 PM

MrTMNT2012

11-12-2014, 05:33 PM

Sexual harassment, terrorism, horrifically ugly heroes who are "drained of all their blood", yeah, sounds like a kids movie!

That is QUITE the over-exaggeration...

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 05:33 PM

LOL, you know this guy is a real scumbag when he spelled "lore" as "lure."
Looking at it again, now I'm not sure if it's a spelling error like you mention, and very well may be, or if they really do mean Turtles lure as in things used for audience bait.

TurtleTitan97

11-12-2014, 05:35 PM

That is QUITE the over-exaggeration...

You sure? Because it seemed as though the majority of time Mikey was on screen, he just wanted to get in April's pants.

Candy Kappa

11-12-2014, 05:36 PM

That is QUITE the over-exaggeration...

The way Mikey acts with April, The Foot activity is terrorism, the turtle where designed to not be pretty or cute, Sacks orderd his underlings to drain them empty even if it meant death.

Doesn't sound too over-exaggerating.

Galactus

11-12-2014, 05:38 PM

I think there's more than a little revisionist history here. Certainly the impression they were giving throughout the making of the movie is that this was not purely a kids movie hence why they were promising that it would be respectful to the source that "we" grew up, it would take things more seriously and that it would have action scenes like The Raid movies and so on.

Certainly it doesn't come off as purely as a children's movie with it's PG 13 rating and it's use of sexual humor and the action while lacking teeth was stylistically intense for young children. If I had children I don't think I'd mind them watching it but I can understand why some parents would and did think it was inappropriate.

Like many "kid" movies what they were surely trying for is more of a "family" movie which I think would be the sweet spot for TMNT. Something that is aimed at children but keeps in mind adults will want to watch. Disney/Pixar know how to do emotional character stories that have just the amount of edge to appeal to all ages or even some of the Marvel movies...heck the 1990 movie did brilliantly in the context of what you could do back then. That certainly kept the idea it had to keep parents interested

They definitely shot for that but played the "adult" aspects so wrong that I don't think any adult fan who wasn't going to be satisfied with TMNT just being back would walk away happy now they are seemingly trying to pass off it was always 100% meant for children.

Also while I know a lot of kids did like the movie I've heard a few reports of kids really not taking to the designs.

Also I think that no one really thought that the movie would outright flop. Especially when you had three people connected to it saying that even people who hated the changes they made would come anyway because we love these characters. That right there should signal that they were banking on adult fans seeing it.

Xiewin

11-12-2014, 05:40 PM

Ughh..

Every-time I read or hear an interview with him and his loser-trio, the angrier I get. I'm tired of this "It's just a kids movie" mentality; Just because it's aimed for a younger audience doesn't necessarily mean it can't be a smartly written film. Seriously, kids deserve better than this.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 05:50 PM

No comments on the actual article.

Paid media advert is paid.

Hate this.

Leo656

11-12-2014, 05:54 PM

That is so not a movie aimed at kids. Guy's totally covering his ass because that's the overwhelming majority of people who liked it. Nothing about the movie except the fact that it's incredibly juvenile and poorly thought-out makes it seem as though it was aimed at kids, as others mentioned.

Even if they had made a movie "just for kids", that's insulting and alienating to the other 2/3s of the fanbase.

Not one person who had anything to do with this pile should be allowed anywhere near a TMNT project again. They don't Get It.

Davetello

11-12-2014, 05:57 PM

The guy is clueless.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 05:59 PM

Funny how the Avengers never gets this kind of treatment, or Batman v Superman, or The Dark Knight.

Why are we the ones who get boned?

I have had enough!

Davetello

11-12-2014, 06:03 PM

Funny how the Avengers never gets this kind of treatment, or Batman v Superman, or The Dark Knight.

Why are we the ones who get boned?

I have had enough!

To be fair, the Avengers is a pretty overrated film. It really has no plot at all. I expect big things from the Infinity War saga though.

TrickOrTreater

11-12-2014, 06:04 PM

So they made the movie for kids.

What does that make the actually good current cartoon?

I'm confused here, see. How low of an opinion does this guy and the people involved in this movie have of kids to say "here! we made this for you you little morons!"

When you say "we made this for kids" instead of "we made this for kid fans and adult fans alike" you're saying "our opinions of kids are so low that we know they will shovel damn near anything into their mouths as long as it's bright and flashy and loud and has a fart joke in it. So we're just gonna sh*t something out to turn a profit."

A recent example of something made both for kid fans and adult fans is season 3 of the cartoon. Most kids today probably won't recognize a Jason Voorhees tribute, or The Thing tribute. That stuff was made by and for adult fans of the show. The kids will get enjoyment anyway because it's Ninja Turtles fighting monsters the way Ninja Turtles do(and kids enjoy being scared on an unconscious level).

That's the f*cking key here. The kids WILL ENJOY IT ANYWAY. Pretty much no matter what, as evidenced by the crap they shoveled into the kids mouths with this movie.

Another example. Avatar The Last Airbender. Great show. From beginning to end. Original property that garnered adult and kid fans alike. They made it for EVERYBODY and had the talent to do it.

PIXAR are movies made for kids and adults. The first half hour of Wall-E doesn't even have any goddamn dialogue in it.

These shows and movies don't feel the need to talk down to kids and leave adults wanting to like it in the dust.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 06:25 PM

To be fair, the Avengers is a pretty overrated film. It really has no plot at all. I expect big things from the Infinity War saga though.

Oh, I agree, absolutely. I didn't love Avengers, infact, I felt the story was pretty empty.

What I'm saying, is that those brands are given a gravitas that the TMNT never get. There's a respect level, that while the films are problematic, it's never shrugged off as only a kids film.

*i should amend that - the season 2 finally of Nick got close. The first time there's been a spark of the real TMNT in anything for a long time.

Worth a watch if you havn't seen it.

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 06:38 PM

What I'm saying, is that those brands are given a gravitas that the TMNT never get. There's a respect level, that while the films are problematic, it's never shrugged off as only a kids film.
Yeah... :( I don't get why they're so stuck with that. What, is it because they're not quite human? Just humorous "talking animals" that lack super powers? Please, there is more humanity in them than 90% of Hollywood. Maybe that's why these people don't get it. :roll:

Gladly accept the big green people as closer to human than big Hollywood people who mostly see a different kind of green.

Davetello

11-12-2014, 06:39 PM

Oh, I agree, absolutely. I didn't love Avengers, infact, I felt the story was pretty empty.

What I'm saying, is that those brands are given a gravitas that the TMNT never get. There's a respect level, that while the films are problematic, it's never shrugged off as only a kids film.

*i should amend that - the season 2 finally of Nick got close. The first time there's been a spark of the real TMNT in anything for a long time.

Worth a watch if you havn't seen it.

I did enjoy it, but I took it for what it was - a mindless, fan service summer blockbuster. Couldn't believe people were saying it was better than the Dark Knight etc. I thought Dredd was a better comic book film in that summer.

Yeah, I know what you mean and should have taken that from your post. There's a level of care and attention which goes into those franchises, and that love wasn't given to the recent film.

I've seen the season 2 finale. Loved it.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 06:58 PM

I did enjoy it, but I took it for what it was - a mindless, fan service summer blockbuster. Couldn't believe people were saying it was better than the Dark Knight etc. I thought Dredd was a better comic book film in that summer.

Yeah, I know what you mean and should have taken that from your post. There's a level of care and attention which goes into those franchises, and that love wasn't given to the recent film.

I've seen the season 2 finale. Loved it.

See, the thing is, I think Ciro actually gets it. He takes from other sources, but him and his team totally get what it is they are making. They know the roots, they give subtle winks to the audience, and they understand the type of heart that TMNTneeds at it's core to be enjoyable.
It's not the TMNT from the comics, nore the FW series or 2k3. It's living on it's own, but still feels the same.

The Bayturtles, they were human-ish, but had the wrong qualities. They were, idk how else to say it, losers. They were too nerdy, and oddball. Creepy is the best way to characterize it.

I think the brothers could be outsiders, without feeling like rejects. I totally get that you could portray them like that, and it has some logic to it, but they tossed out the cool factor. Mikey was a cool optimist in the 1990 film. They were the sort of characters that you want to spend more time with, not less.

Every "joke" every line in Bayturtles was cringe inducing, for me.

Davetello

11-12-2014, 07:05 PM

See, the thing is, I think Ciro actually gets it. He takes from other sources, but him and his team totally get what it is they are making. They know the roots, they give subtle winks to the audience, and they understand the type of heart that TMNTneeds at it's core to be enjoyable.
It's not the TMNT from the comics, nore the FW series or 2k3. It's living on it's own, but still feels the same.

The Bayturtles, they were human-ish, but had the wrong qualities. They were, idk how else to say it, losers. They were too nerdy, and oddball. Creepy is the best way to characterize it.

I think the brothers could be outsiders, without feeling like rejects. I totally get that you could portray them like that, and it has some logic to it, but they tossed out the cool factor. Mikey was a cool optimist in the 1990 film. They were the sort of characters that you want to spend more time with, not less.

Every "joke" every line in Bayturtles was cringe inducing, for me.

Agree with all of that.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 07:08 PM

Davetello

11-12-2014, 07:13 PM

The problem with making movies based on comic book properties, Your usually only given 2 hours to explain the whole thing, When in Comics and TV Shows, They spend several issues and episodes to tell an entire story.

That's why I prefer television to film. Can't wait for Daredevil on Netflix.

I have higher hopes for Infinity War though since it will have two parts. Gives them 4-5 hours.

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 07:14 PM

That's just one of the kickers for me though, they didn't even use the whole normal two hours most movies do these days (or even three sometimes), there was still room for them to add in things that might have helped... Hell, do it right and I'd gladly watch the Turtles three.

Leo656

11-12-2014, 07:17 PM

And yet, I own dozens of movies that actually did a good-to-great job translating comics to film. Go figure.

I totally agree that film has certain limitations that make more serialized, long-form storytelling a chore to adapt. That doesn't excuse anyone, at all, for taking the easy way out. They needed to try harder on the TMNT movie, it's as simple as that.

It's literally like, every wrong decision they could have made, or every opportunity they had to MISdirect their focus, they did exactly that. No excuses. There's "doing it wrong", and "Doing It SO wrong that it had to have been on purpose."

Davetello

11-12-2014, 07:19 PM

Not denying what you guys are saying, I was just expanding on my general preference for television over film, since Tiger Claw mentioned a drawback of cinema.

Leo656

11-12-2014, 07:21 PM

Galactus

11-12-2014, 07:24 PM

The problem with making movies based on comic book properties, Your usually only given 2 hours to explain the whole thing, When in Comics and TV Shows, They spend several issues and episodes to tell an entire story.

And yet The 1990 movie breezed through the origin and back story in under five minutes.

I don't believe a more detailed one that incorporated TCRI and perhaps a bit more on Yoshi and Saki would have taken much longer. Pretty much every modern comic book movie manages it well enough.

I don't believe it was because they were trying to keep it simple for children as not only were the origins done in a short time in all three animated series but the origin they did come up with was pretty convoluted.

We got the whole stuff with April and her father and Sacks. Heck Sacks gets an origin himself, at what age do kids learn about Vietnam war? Another sign this wasn't made purely with kids in mind.

Time wasn't an issue because they wasted twenty minutes on the above. They didn't do it because they didn't want to. They set out to make what they felt was an really great epic about aliens, ancient prophecies and military hunts and they scratched their heads when people didn't care for it and then grudgingly changed it without really understanding why fans wanted it in the first place.

Davetello

11-12-2014, 07:29 PM

Oh you're not at all incorrect, bud; I've long said that when it comes to comics, TV is much more closely related to the way comics tell stories. They're both more long-form, where movies are like a quick snapshot of a larger story. It's definitely easier to adapt comics to TV than to film.

It can and has been done very well a hundred times, though, so I still get cranky at movies like the new TMNT where it's like they didn't bother trying.

Agree, there have been some good comic films. And I suppose you can argue that the time constraints can also be seen as a benefit as it can lead to a more coherent, tightly structured plot whereas there's more room for filler in a television series. Sort of like setting lower word limits in essays to keep the writer focused and eliminate waffling.

What's your favourite comic book film other than the 90 film? With you being a Superman fanboy I'm guessing it's the original Reeve film.

Mine is the Dark Knight or Batman 1989. Not exactly original, but they were great.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 07:32 PM

Well, I'm looking forward to the sequel, If Bebop and Rocksteady are in it, It'll be interesting to see how they will do there origins under under 2 hours

newhire13

11-12-2014, 07:37 PM

And yet The 1990 movie breezed through the origin and back story in under five minutes.

I don't believe a more detailed one that incorporated TCRI and perhaps a bit more on Yoshi and Saki would have taken much longer. Pretty much every modern comic book movie manages it well enough.

I don't believe it was because they were trying to keep it simple for children as not only were the origins done in a short time in all three animated series but the origin they did come up with was pretty convoluted.

We got the whole stuff with April and her father and Sacks. Heck Sacks gets an origin himself, at what age do kids learn about Vietnam war? Another sign this wasn't made purely with kids in mind.

Time wasn't an issue because they wasted twenty minutes on the above. They didn't do it because they didn't want to. They set out to make what they felt was an really great epic about aliens, ancient prophecies and military hunts and they scratched their heads when people didn't care for it and then grudgingly changed it without really understanding why fans wanted it in the first place.

Well technically they did it, they just didn't do it the way you expected them to. I mean the entire film was about their origin and what their existence means, it just wasn't the standard version of that story.

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 07:40 PM

Well, I'm looking forward to the sequel, If Bebop and Rocksteady are in it, It'll be interesting to see how they will do there origins under under 2 hours
I just hope they don't take so long to set that up and give so much focus to those characters that the Turtles get shorted a bit again like they did this time with the abundance of April.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 07:47 PM

I just hope they don't take so long to set that up and give so much focus to those characters that the Turtles get shorted a bit again like they did this time with the abundance of April.
I hope it's not something where they only show up as Mutants in the 3rd act, It be nice to see them early on.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 07:50 PM

Well, I'm looking forward to the sequel, If Bebop and Rocksteady are in it, It'll be interesting to see how they will do there origins under under 2 hours

Seeing as R&B were introduced in FW in under 21 minutes, I'm sure they can manage.

Oh, wait, it's Fuller and co again?

Maybe you're right. Gotta leave room for all those Vernon quips.

Boy, how I just love that...8)

Galactus

11-12-2014, 07:50 PM

Well, I'm looking forward to the sequel, If Bebop and Rocksteady are in it, It'll be interesting to see how they will do there origins under under 2 hours

It shouldn't be hard. Their actual origin was done in a 20 minute episode.

In fact if you take the relevant bits of the origin in 'Enter the Shredder' and let's say their small role in the series pilot as a back story then does it even come to five minutes of set up?

Then again I'm guessing that the animated series origin might be a bit too complicated for them and instead it will be something like Casey Jones' mother was a vet at the central park zoo when one night the zoo was raided and a rhino and a warthog were stolen and Casey's mother was left in the coma. Years later when Casey sees April's news reports of warthog and rhino creatures harassing the good citizens of New York he seeks her out to try and convince her they are the same animals he used to care for with his mother. Turns out they were mutated Shredder as part of Project: Convoluted to fulfill an ancient Japanese prophecy.

...oh and turtles show up and fight whatever.

TrickOrTreater

11-12-2014, 07:54 PM

Seeing as R&B were introduced in FW in under 21 minutes, I'm sure they can manage.

Oh, wait, it's Fuller and co again?

Maybe you're right. Gotta leave room for all those Vernon quips.

Boy, how I just love that...8)

Talking about yoga...and foam...

Leo656

11-12-2014, 08:01 PM

Agree, there have been some good comic films. And I suppose you can argue that the time constraints can also be seen as a benefit as it can lead to a more coherent, tightly structured plot whereas there's more room for filler in a television series. Sort of like setting lower word limits in essays to keep the writer focused and eliminate waffling.

What's your favourite comic book film other than the 90 film? With you being a Superman fanboy I'm guessing it's the original Reeve film.

Mine is the Dark Knight or Batman 1989. Not exactly original, but they were great.

Ooof, that's actually really tough, because even the ones I love I'm kind of hard on. Like, I do love the Reeve film, but the ending just ruins it for me. Even when I was four I cried bullsh*t on the cheap ending. It's a great movie, but that kind of ruins it, too; the movie itself was too good to end THAT way. Likewise, the Donner cut of Superman II is a terrific movie, but the fact that it's so patched-together makes me hesitant to recommend it to some people, even though as its own film it's got the overall best narrative of any Superman film, especially the restored scenes with Clark and Jor-El in the Fortress. It just looks "off" in spots and I can get by it but I know some people can't.

In some ways "Batman Begins" might be my overall favorite, because once you get past the fact the Joker isn't in it, it's the best self-contained super-hero movie ever made. You can come in knowing nothing about the character, and by the end you know everything important there is to know, it sets up the entire mythology perfectly, and its only deviations from the source material are so minor and inconsequential they're barely noticeable. "Dark Knight" may be a better film and gets all the hype, but it's still a sequel, and thus doesn't work as perfectly as its own self-contained piece of work. If a person factors in faithfulness to the source as well as actually being a very well-done movie in its own right that anyone could enjoy whether they read comics or not, "Batman Begins" came closer than any movie ever has.

I actually prefer "Superman Returns" to the other Superman films; it's a bit melancholy, and Lois was painfully miscast, but it was very true to the spirit of both the books and the earlier films, it's still the best-looking Superman film by far, and also has the best music. They made some choices that I personally wouldn't have made, but I'll forever argue it has far more going For it than Against it. I slightly put it over the Reeve films for a few small reasons, mostly Routh's Clark being less of a dork and there overall being less silly humor and flat jokes than the original film.

Keaton's Batman is great, too, and I'd say it's definitely in my top 5, I'm just not entirely a fan of Joker being the one who killed his parents. As its own thing it's terrific, though. I don't think I ever met 5 people who didn't like that movie.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 08:02 PM

But if they do introduce Bebop and Rocksteady in a sequel, Are they gonna mutate humans, or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film, In hopes of creating Mutants that they can control, To take on the turtles?

the problem is doing the animal to mutant, The mutants would have to take years to adjust in existence and understand the world they live in.

When doing human to mutants, The mutants retains all the memories and self awareness when they used to be human.

So it'll be interesting what approach they will take if they bring those two in a sequel.

Davetello

11-12-2014, 08:10 PM

Ooof, that's actually really tough, because even the ones I love I'm kind of hard on. Like, I do love the Reeve film, but the ending just ruins it for me. Even when I was four I cried bullsh*t on the cheap ending. It's a great movie, but that kind of ruins it, too; the movie itself was too good to end THAT way. Likewise, the Donner cut of Superman II is a terrific movie, but the fact that it's so patched-together makes me hesitant to recommend it to some people, even though as its own film it's got the overall best narrative of any Superman film, especially the restored scenes with Clark and Jor-El in the Fortress. It just looks "off" in spots and I can get by it but I know some people can't.

In some ways "Batman Begins" might be my overall favorite, because once you get past the fact the Joker isn't in it, it's the best self-contained super-hero movie ever made. You can come in knowing nothing about the character, and by the end you know everything important there is to know, it sets up the entire mythology perfectly, and its only deviations from the source material are so minor and inconsequential they're barely noticeable. "Dark Knight" may be a better film and gets all the hype, but it's still a sequel, and thus doesn't work as perfectly as its own self-contained piece of work. If a person factors in faithfulness to the source as well as actually being a very well-done movie in its own right that anyone could enjoy whether they read comics or not, "Batman Begins" came closer than any movie ever has.

I actually prefer "Superman Returns" to the other Superman films; it's a bit melancholy, and Lois was painfully miscast, but it was very true to the spirit of both the books and the earlier films, it's still the best-looking Superman film by far, and also has the best music. They made some choices that I personally wouldn't have made, but I'll forever argue it has far more going For it than Against it. I slightly put it over the Reeve films for a few small reasons, mostly Routh's CLark being less of a dork and there overall being less silly humor and flat jokes than the original film.

Keaton's Batman is great, too, and I'd say it's definitely in my top 5, I'm just not entirely a fan of Joker being the one who killed his parents. As its own thing it's terrific, though. I don't think I ever met 5 people who didn't like that movie.

Nice post. Yeah, I don't like the fact that Napier killed Bruce's parents in 89 film either, rather than Joe Chill. However, it's a minor annoyance. Nicholson (I've already said I love him) and Keaton make the film brilliant.

Begins is a very underrated film, and you're right about it being self-contained. I've met a few people who consider it the highlight of the trilogy, and I can certainly see why.

You're right about what you say on Reeve's Superman. But bear in mind it was made in the seventies, so there was bound to be some cheesy humour there. For its time it was certainly revolutionary and paved the way for comic book films, as Superman paved the way for superheroes (but was superseded by Batman, that comment will make you rage a bit :lol:)

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 08:14 PM

or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film
Betting probably that. However hoping they go human. OR at least add the human DNA element to the story. (And then make it true for the Turtles as well and further a storyline in them discovering and understanding who they are.)

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 08:28 PM

Betting probably that. However hoping they go human. OR at least add the human DNA element to the story. (And then make it true for the Turtles as well and further a storyline in them discovering and understanding who they are.)
I can totally see the Foot Clan try to replicate what happened before, and create two creatures that they hope to counter the Turtles.

Which is what The Shredder did in Secret of the Ooze.

In fact, What if they borrowed some bits from Secret of the Ooze, in order to bring in Bebop and Rocksteady.

Leo656

11-12-2014, 08:35 PM

I'm more or less expecting it to be similar. They'll probably try to play it just a little more "serious". The way they debuted Tokka and Rahzar kind of took the piss out of the rest of the movie. I doubt they'll go the same route, Bebop and Rocksteady will inevitably be stupid but I bet they try to, at first, make them appear to be a credible threat.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 08:44 PM

I can totally see the Foot Clan try to replicate what happened before, and create two creatures that they hope to counter the Turtles.

Which is what The Shredder did in Secret of the Ooze.

In fact, What if they borrowed some bits from Secret of the Ooze, in order to bring in Bebop and Rocksteady.

I can see where you're coming from, but I have a feeling they will start human.

It's yet another opportunity for them to do a little stunt casting and have R&B be human for quite a while, saving on CGI costs, until the third act when they inevitably become mutants, and we get some weak 5 minute brawl.

More to the point, I would hope that they retain the human origin. While I wouldn't be thrilled by the plan I laid out above, I think human mutation has more impact on a character, than animal mutation. It's addition Vs subtraction, in a sense, as the turtles gained some humanity, while R&B lose some of theirs.

If they start as animals, we also lose the human persona's.

Galactus

11-12-2014, 08:48 PM

Well technically they did it, they just didn't do it the way you expected them to. I mean the entire film was about their origin and what their existence means, it just wasn't the standard version of that story.

That was my point. It seemed that TigerClaw was suggesting that the movie didn't have time to do the full origin but as I pointed out they actually did a longer origin

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take. That being said I was still gobsmacked about the learning ninjitsu from a book thing.

So it was along the lines the origin I was expecting but not the origin I wanted and I'd strongly argue the origin they should have used. The Yoshi and Saki rivalry has been in every version in some form and is arguably the most important aspect of their origin. It certainly is if the main villain is Shredder himself.

I'd say the majority of the fans are with me on that. Heck months prior to the confirmation they'd be no Yoshi/Saki rivalry many of this movie's defenders argued vehemently it would be. One of them even called me stupid because it was "so obvious" they were going the IDW reincarnation rout and they swallowed all the guff about how the makers were all big fans and sticking true to core elements etc.

But if they do introduce Bebop and Rocksteady in a sequel, Are they gonna mutate humans, or they are just gonna get a rhino and warthog, and reproduce the same experiment, they did with the Turtles and Splinter in the 1st film, In hopes of creating Mutants that they can control, To take on the turtles?

the problem is doing the animal to mutant, The mutants would have to take years to adjust in existence and understand the world they live in.

When doing human to mutants, The mutants retains all the memories and self awareness when they used to be human.

So it'll be interesting what approach they will take if they bring those two in a sequel.

In all seriousness I'd imagine if they went with the animal to mutant rout they'd treat it Secret of the Ooze, IDW and the 80s and current animated series do that they instantly mutate and either magically already know or quickly learn human-like behavior.

I personally wouldn't care for that at all. It works fine in the context of cartoons because their world is well...cartoonish but in any version with even a hint of realism it's stupid. I don't care for it in the IDW books and while I've said it doesn't bother me in the cartoon it's still at the back of my mind that it's stupid given they highlighted and made a big deal the turtle didn't instantly mutate.

I'd personally prefer they had some kind of mutagen assisted DNA splicing going on with human Bebop and Rocksteady as volunteers as they did in the original show. I've always thought a more serious take would have them strapped down ala 'Enter the Shredder' but have tubes pumping substances in them while they writhe in pain or maybe they're in giant tubes of liquid ala Woverine getting bonded with the adamantium.

TurtleTitan97

11-12-2014, 08:55 PM

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take.

Wow. He seriously said that? :trolleye:

This just makes me dislike Leibesman even more. Horrible director.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 08:57 PM

Plus the sequel will have to further explain the Ooze, Even though April as a child said it came from outer space, You could take that she was told that as a joke by the scientist. But it could actually be from outer space, so who knows.

TrickOrTreater

11-12-2014, 09:10 PM

I wouldn't say I didn't expect it seeing as I'd read the interview from Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated and even prior to that it was obvious the rout they were going to take. That being said I was still gobsmacked about the learning ninjitsu from a book thing.

If he actually said that he can go f*ck himself.

Maybe too complicated for HIM and the other untalented hacks on the crew who worked on this movie, but maybe not complicated for people with talent.

I'd say the majority of the fans are with me on that. Heck months prior to the confirmation they'd be no Yoshi/Saki rivalry many of this movie's defenders argued vehemently it would be. One of them even called me stupid because it was "so obvious" they were going the IDW reincarnation rout and they swallowed all the guff about how the makers were all big fans and sticking true to core elements etc.

I wish I'd saved allllll those posts from certain posters that were sooooo sure the movie would have this or that and...lo and behold...it friggin' didn't.

Galactus

11-12-2014, 09:23 PM

Wow. He seriously said that? :trolleye:

This just makes me dislike Leibesman even more. Horrible director.

If he actually said that he can go f*ck himself.

Pretty much...

"They do become mutants because of Mutagen," says Liebesman (who says that the film will not include the exact "Daredevil"-inspired origin from the comic). "For me, as a fan, it's a very satisfying origin. We discussed, 'Should we do the exact Eastman thing?' The problem is, it becomes very complicated. People who aren't fans will just be like, 'What the f-- is going on?' There's already so much complication in terms of Splinter being formed because he was Shredder's nemesis who stole his girlfriend. It's just that then you start opening a whole bunch of doors that became very complex to explore in this film."

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=120723

Maybe too complicated for HIM and the other untalented hacks on the crew who worked on this movie, but maybe not complicated for people with talent.

Well I have a bit of trouble with Leibesman. Is he that shortsighted or is he just a point and click monkey that does exactly producers want? I'm honestly not sure which would be better.

I wish I'd saved allllll those posts from certain posters that were sooooo sure the movie would have this or that and...lo and behold...it friggin' didn't.

Indeed. Then again some of them seem convinced all that was missing in this movie will be in the sequel. I'm not holding my breath.

Plus the sequel will have to further explain the Ooze, Even though April as a child said it came from outer space, You could take that she was told that as a joke by the scientist. But it could actually be from outer space, so who knows.

The mutagen was already explained in the movie. It's a cure for this deadly disease that no one has ever heard of.

At very least that might go some way to say why the turtles almost instantly heal after getting shot and why it was used to save Splinter's life. I wonder if they actually thought of that or if it's a case of monkeys and typewriters.

I don't think it needs further explanation. In fact it's best forgetting the whole thing otherwise you have to wonder why Shredder and Sacks wouldn't just do the whole plan again. The certainly have the means and the resources to do so.

IndigoErth

11-12-2014, 09:28 PM

Leibesman saying that he wasn't going to include the Yoshi/Saki rivalry as he thought it was too complicated
So complicated that Shredder was supposedly killed off how soon in the original comics? :roll: Don't overcomplicated it on your own and you could probably at least give an overview of that pretty fast.

Or is it more like "we want to insert our own ideas in parts of it that shouldn't have it inserted." (For some reason I feel that "no means no" is fitting to say there...)

Still wish Yoshi had simply been a guy working in the lab, would have been so easy.

TigerClaw

11-12-2014, 09:30 PM

The mutagen was already explained in the movie. It's a cure for this deadly disease that no one has ever heard of.

At very least that might go some way to say why the turtles almost instantly heal after getting shot and why it was used to save Splinter's life. I wonder if they actually thought of that or if it's a case of monkeys and typewriters.

I don't think it needs further explanation. In fact it's best forgetting the whole thing otherwise you have to wonder why Shredder and Sacks wouldn't just do the whole plan again. The certainly have the means and the resources to do so.
If they plan on using the Mutagen on Humans to create Bebop and Rocksteady, They would have to reverse engineer it to work on humans then. If that was a so called cure for Humans, That only mutates animals in contact with it. They would have to fix is so that it has the same affect on human beings.

Commenter 42

11-12-2014, 09:59 PM

If they plan on using the Mutagen on Humans to create Bebop and Rocksteady, They would have to reverse engineer it to work on humans then. If that was a so called cure for Humans, That only mutates animals in contact with it. They would have to fix is so that it has the same affect on human beings.

You have a point. PD Mutagen doesn't have the same properties as FW's does.

Oh... the horror.

Somebody stop this train.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt

11-13-2014, 02:00 AM

Reading these quotes from the director, as well as the quotes from Brad Fuller...all I can say is that the people behind this flick have a case of FOSS.

What's that?

take Full Of Spit Syndrome...then change a letter...

chrisdude

11-13-2014, 08:06 AM

TigerClaw

11-13-2014, 10:19 AM

With the sequel coming in 2016, Two years have passed since the Shredder and the Foot Clan tried, and was stopped from spreading a virus in NYC. If he survived that fall, I'm sure he would want to retaliate, And get Baxter Stockman to reverse engineer the Mutagen, to test it on Humans, He would want to create some super soldiers within his Foot Clan to take on the Turtles.

What if they introduce the Purple Dragons in the sequel, and two of its rejects got recruited by the Shredder, and became the two test subjects for this new mutagen, Which resulted in Bebop and Rocksteady.

IndigoErth

11-13-2014, 11:50 AM

The man clearly explains that what he learned from this movie, was to focus on the adults who loved ninja turtles as a kid. The movie absolutely wasn't made, "for children." If anything, we should be upset that he forgot all about children, and made no reference to, and drew no inspiration from the current cartoon. He said the kids don't have "the background," as if the cartoon didn't exist.
Well, in fairness the show itself probably wasn't all that old when the meat if this film was being worked on.

They seem to have pulled Donnie's lankier build from it, as well as the blue eyes on Leo and Mikey, though I imagine the initial writing may have been happening before the show even premiered. Fingers crossed maybe they will pull a little more from it for the next.