Writing Point of View of the 2014 TMNT Movie's Script

[LeoRaph]

Alright, it seems the Objective Point of View for the 2014 movie thread didn't really work as it was a finished product and had way too many subjective elements but one thing seems to be universal in that the script was really bad. I mean really really bad.

I will always call it the 'bastard child of blue door' or 'April O'Fox Rules the Universe' but hey that's me :twink:

Seriously though, I actually think we finally have something we can discuss objectively without letting our own personal opinions get in the way. We all know what good writing is and have seen it many times in other incarnations of TMNT but this movie didn't have it and many people can at least agree with that...you would think. So if we can, let's forget about designs, execution, acting, Megan fox, etc.. and try to keep this from a writing point of view only.

So, here it is:

What was so bad about the script/story? And What Specifically didn't work storywise and What Specifically Did Work storywise (If Anything and I mean Anything)?

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I still think that what we got is better than what we could have got. The movie just needed more rewrites in the story and dialogue department.

[Leo656]

We all know what good writing is...

You'd certainly like to think so, eh True Believer? :tcool:

I'll start with "Villains' Scheme Made No Sense For $500" just to be semi-On Topic. Y'all can take it from there, there's certainly no shortage of things to discuss.

[IndigoErth]

Plot holes, unnecessary origin changes and other junk aside, prob one of the script issues that bugs me most is the perspective. It's the Turtles' movie, but the perspective followed April as if it was hers.

Case in point:
When the Turtles hack April's computer and tell her to meet up with them and the scene where she does. We see it entirely from her perspective of what's happening to poor little April with these big scary Turtles.

April movie.

Turtles movie (imo): We instead see the guys hanging out waiting for her, hoping she shows up, and see the scene from their perspective. (And while they wait we get a touch of much needed down time.)

A Turtles movie should not make me feel like telling frikking April to "Just RUN!" when my dang favorite Turtle has dialogue and a so-called voice "actor" that make him sound un-Leo-like legit creepy in tone when he greets April in that scene with "Heeeey...glad you could make it."

A part of me died a little inside.

[Candy Kappa]

Releasing dangerous toxins that are colored in such a way you can easily see where it originates from, and it's being released from the top of the building that belongs to the company that will miraculously bring the cure. I see no flaws here...

[TrickOrTreater]

I just...I don't even know where to start.

Not a thing made sense in this movie.

They were either sh*tting on the Turtles or they were sh*tting on filmmaking as a whole.

[oldmanwinters]

It's the Turtles' movie, but the perspective followed April as if it was hers.

Case in point:
When the Turtles hack April's computer and tell her to meet up with them and the scene where she does. We see it entirely from her perspective of what's happening to poor little April with these big scary Turtles.

April movie.

Turtles movie (imo): We instead see the guys hanging out waiting for her, hoping she shows up, and see the scene from their perspective. (And while they wait we get a touch of much needed down time.)

A Turtles movie should not make me feel like telling frikking April to "Just RUN!" when my dang favorite Turtle has dialogue and a so-called voice "actor" that make him sound un-Leo-like legit creepy in tone when he greets April in that scene with "Heeeey...glad you could make it."

A part of me died a little inside.

Now I will never defend this movie's merits on plot, even though I did enjoy.

However, it's worth nothing that both the 2nd issue of the Mirage comic and the first episode of the Fred Wold toon ("Turtle Tracks") were both stories seen almost entirely from April's perspective. She was the protagonist in both of those instances until we (the audience/reader) became more familiar with the Turtles.

[TrickOrTreater]

Now I will never defend this movie's merits on plot, even though I did enjoy.

However, it's worth nothing that both the 2nd issue of the Mirage comic and the first episode of the Fred Wold toon ("Turtle Tracks") were both stories seen almost entirely from April's perspective. She was the protagonist in both of those instances until we (the audience/reader) became more familiar with the Turtles.

Which would have been fine.

And yet, the movie CONTINUED to be about Megan O'Fox.

Where as the first movie had April and then, literally about 5 minutes later, we introduce the Turtles and the movie becomes theirs.

THIS movie took...what? 20 minutes for a full Turtle reveal? And even then, as I said, the movie continued to be about Megan.

Which sucks even more because the VERY few decent moments this movie had, you can count them on one hand and even then they're marred by sh*t somehow, were from the Turtles.

[Don77]

Script was definitely the worst part of this movie

[Autbot_Benz]

I think we should just rename the TMNT Movie thread into Lets make numerous topics and Bitch about the 2014 movie.:roll:

[TrickOrTreater]

I think we should just rename the TMNT Movie thread into Lets make numerous topics and Bitch about the 2014 movie.:roll:

And of course it's only bitching if it doesn't line up with your opinion, right?

Of course.

[TurtleTitan97]

The script sucked.

[IndigoErth]

Well if that's the case then no bitching about anything at all ever. That includes bitching about people's bitching.

[LeoRaph]

I think we should just rename the TMNT Movie thread into Lets make numerous topics and Bitch about the 2014 movie.

We could...but this is SPECIFICALLY about the Writing and NOTHING else which a lot of people think was pretty bad not just for TMNT but from a simple story telling point of view so I think voicing what was bad about the writing isn't 'bitching' at all.

[Chris]

It was just a lazy, lazy script with no heart. I still can't believe 3 people got paid to write it. Like everyone says, where do you even start on this topic, there was just so much wrong with it.

I get suspension of disbelief and "heightened reality", but a film has to obey its own rules of logic. You can't have Raph say he can't help because his shell is cracked then a minute later have him use his cracked shell to smash into a vehicle. Same for April, if she's so desperate to prove the turtles exist to her boss then why not show her the photo she took? Or when she rescued these turtles who were effectively like pets to her, why not take them home, why dump then in the sewers? Everything was done "because it looks cool" (Raph shell smashing the truck) or because it was the easiest way to get the characters to where the plot (and I use that word very loosely) needed them to be.

One of the biggest crimes against TMNT fans was the complete removal of any form of antagonistic relationship between Splinter and Shredder. If they felt the need to tweak/update the origin that's fine, but don't take out something that CRUCIAL and put NOTHING in its place. They spoke and acted like they had a history that the script did nothing to support. It didn't even hint at it. Even if Sack's had been Shredder there was nothing there (that was all given to April). There was no reason for animosity between Splinter and Shredder (and by extension between the TMNT and the Foot). Instead of being personal they fought simply because the TMNT were the good guys and the Foot were the bad guys. There was no depth. To quote April it was all just "froth".

And please don't say "it's for kids". I've seen plenty of kids movies that are better and more intelligently written than movies aimed at adults. This is an insult to kids intelligence.

[TigerClaw]

I person had no problem with the film regarding the script, The Script has gone through many changes over the years. I'm not really a hardcore movie buff that relies on how scripts are done when it comes to films. I just enjoy the movies for what they are, Entertainment.

Anyways, With a sequel coming in 2016, They can improve on it by writing a good script this time around, The 1st time was an experiment that needed revisions, This time, They know what they got, so they can improve on it and fix it in the sequel.

[IndigoErth]

I get suspension of disbelief and "heightened reality", but a film has to obey its own rules of logic. You can't have Raph say he can't help because his shell is cracked then a minute later have him use his cracked shell to smash into a vehicle.
Yeah, that's just bad sequence of events right there... Was there no memory of what had been written shortly before it or too hard to reread and fresh the memory of what's going on before continuing the write? It was his brother that was being pursued, electrocuted, knocked unconscious and needed help. Smashing into the truck soon after just unfortunately made it look more like a disregard for his brother. :ohwell:

Although I did enjoy it being Donnie who went after Leo to help him. There just should have been a better reason - or no need for a reason - that Donnie went.

Anyways, With a sequel coming in 2016, They can improve on it by writing a good script this time around, The 1st time was an experiment that needed revisions, This time, They know what they got, so they can improve on it and fix it in the sequel.
Dear turtle god I hope so. They will regain some small measure of respect from me if they are willing to take up some humility, pay attention to what's been said and discussed online, including the critical stuff, and learn from it and apply it. If they however choose to dig in their heels and take an arrogant, flippant attitude, then they deserve all lack of respect they'll receive for it.

[TrickOrTreater]

Yeah, that's just bad sequence of events right there... Was there no memory of what had been written shortly before it or too hard to reread and fresh the memory of what's going on before continuing the write? It was his brother that was being pursued, electrocuted, knocked unconscious and needed help. Smashing into the truck soon after just unfortunately made it look more like a disregard for his brother. :ohwell:

Although I did enjoy it being Donnie who went after Leo to help him. There just should have been a better reason - or no need for a reason - that Donnie went.

They had a reason. Raph's shell was cracked.

Then they completely ignored that reason a few minutes later in favor of ANOTHER slo mo action scene with Raph, who, minutes ago, said he was very injured.

Dear turtle god I hope so. They will regain some small measure of respect from me if they are willing to take up some humility, pay attention to what's been said and discussed online, including the critical stuff, and learn from it and apply it. If they however choose to dig in their heels and take an arrogant, flippant attitude, then they deserve all lack of respect they'll receive for it.

They won't. They've been rewarded for sh*t and now they'll probably care even less for the sequel.

[IndigoErth]

They had a reason. Raph's shell was cracked
Well, I mean more that the remark, seeing as how it's forgotten soon after, seems to exist solely as explanation why Donnie goes instead of Raph, when in all fairness to Donnie there shouldn't have to be a reason for him to "be the badass for once," just go be it. If that makes any sense.

[TrickOrTreater]

Well, I mean more that the remark, seeing as how it's forgotten soon after, seems to exist solely as explanation why Donnie goes instead of Raph, when in all fairness to Donnie there shouldn't have to be a reason for him to "be the badass for once," just go be it. If that makes any sense.

Oh it does. The script writers are just not good at writing.

After all, they were also responsible for Blue Door.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I just...I don't even know where to start.

Not a thing made sense in this movie.

They were either sh*tting on the Turtles or they were sh*tting on filmmaking as a whole.

Nothing made sense? If you were able to understand what went down in the movie then that is a lie.

[Galactus]

Nothing made sense? If you were able to understand what went down in the movie then that is a lie.

2 + 2 = 5

It doesn't make sense but if we saw it we'd still understand that whoever did it was trying to do addition.

[TrickOrTreater]

Nothing made sense? If you were able to understand what went down in the movie then that is a lie.

Understanding a simple, dumb story("what went down") is quite a bit different from story/plot/character elements that make no f*cking sense.

I don't have the time or the patience to humor you and hold your hand and go through every little stupid bullsh*t inconsistency this movie vomited forth.

Right now.

But I promise you, I'll down some advil, watch the movie again, and make a long, long list of all the things that didn't make sense in this stupid, crap movie.

Or maybe the Everything Wrong With youtube channel will do it for me. Cross your fingers and toes.

[Chris]

I actually can't wait for the "Everything wrong with..." video, it should be funnier and better than the actual movie (and probably about as long :tlol:)

[Splint'r]

Even though I got some enjoyment out of the film, the script was definitely a big problem for my "adult" mind. I tried not to dissect it so much while watching. The plot was pretty weak. Kinda choppy, but we all know why. It's been pretty well established that they scrapped the original script during filming and patched it with a new script. This is the result. The best you're going to get. I recall news sites calling it a chaotic production.

[TrickOrTreater]

I actually can't wait for the "Everything wrong with..." video, it should be funnier and better than the actual movie (and probably about as long :tlol:)

Kinda wish Honest Trailers would have done one too. The Transformers one was unbelievably hilarious.

Even though I got some enjoyment out of the film, the script was definitely a big problem for my "adult" mind. I tried not to dissect it so much while watching. The plot was pretty weak. Kinda choppy, but we all know why. It's been pretty well established that they scrapped the original script during filming and patched it with a new script. This is the result. The best you're going to get. I recall news sites calling it a chaotic production.

And that revision was a revision of ANOTHER script.

They probably should have rewrote it again. With different writers. And producer. And director. And distribution studio. And cast. And crew.

[TurtleTitan97]

I actually can't wait for the "Everything wrong with..." video, it should be funnier and better than the actual movie (and probably about as long :tlol:)

Same here. It's gonna be hilarious.:tlol:

[IndigoErth]

I recall news sites calling it a chaotic production.
Could certainly believe it with the way they were supposedly working down to the wire on this one. Deadlines are more important than final product I guess.

And cast.
Hope we can spare the Turtles actors though (sans Knoxville), along with their stunt/action doubles. That bunch did rather well (imo), even if the writing, directing, etc surrounding them was lackluster.


Likewise really hope they do one of those "Everything wrong with" videos. (Though will expect some serious tantrums in it's comments... lol)

[TigerClaw]

I actually can't wait for the "Everything wrong with..." video, it should be funnier and better than the actual movie (and probably about as long :tlol:)
I don't really watch those videos, Those videos are made by film snobs who are nit picky about everything in films.

[Powder]

Yeah, you prefer the reviews from nasally geeks who praise everything. We all have our biases. :trazz:

[LeoRaph]

Alright, I really can't remember much of this movie so I'll just start from the beginning.

Michelangelo was changed for the sake of change or to be edgier or whatever. He's supposed to be the most pure of heart and the innocent one of the four brothers where his attraction to April from the 1990 movie was charming not lecherous but for some reason PD thought it would be cool and relatable to teens if he were to do say and do stuff that would get any other teen or adult a restraining order. Way to set an example guys.

As someone who has had to deal with guys like this towards friends and family, my experience is 99.9% of women do NOT like to be treated in this way and it not only pisses them off but also it pisses guys like me off that they THINK they can. The fact that Megan Fox NEVER does anything about it is her way and the writers way of saying it's okay. Doesn't work in the real world like this So it SHOULDN'T in movies especially that kids watch. Seriously it was practically Frenzy humping Fox's leg again and her being okay with it.

That was definitely in the writing so yeah that's the first thing that didn't work. I'll think of more things and expand as I try to remember the movie but quite a few other things have been said like the origin, april centered movie, not showing the photo, Raph's sudden healing, the whole tower bit etc..

I will though also add the physics, you have them being able to throw a freaking shipping crate but can't move a single human being in armour, Raph's sunglasses was just lazy graphics but that was definitely in the writing.

[Autbot_Benz]

Alright, I really can't remember much of this movie so I'll just start from the beginning.

Michelangelo was changed for the sake of change or to be edgier or whatever. He's supposed to be the most pure of heart and the innocent one of the four brothers where his attraction to April from the 1990 movie was charming not lecherous but for some reason PD thought it would be cool and relatable to teens if he were to do say and do stuff that would get any other teen or adult a restraining order. Way to set an example guys.

As someone who has had to deal with guys like this towards friends and family, my experience is 99.9% of women do NOT like to be treated in this way and it not only pisses them off but also it pisses guys like me off that they THINK they can. The fact that Megan Fox NEVER does anything about it is her way and the writers way of saying it's okay. Doesn't work in the real world like this So it SHOULDN'T in movies especially that kids watch. Seriously it was practically Frenzy humping Fox's leg again and her being okay with it.

That was definitely in the writing so yeah that's the first thing that didn't work. I'll think of more things and expand as I try to remember the movie but quite a few other things have been said like the origin, april centered movie, not showing the photo, Raph's sudden healing, the whole tower bit etc..

I will also add the physics you have them being able to throw a freaking shipping crate but can't move a single human being in armour, Raph's sunglasses was just lazy graphics but that was definitely in the writing.

It was Wheelie Humping Fox's Leg not Frenzy :P

[Candy Kappa]

Hope we can spare the Turtles actors though (sans Knoxville), along with their stunt/action doubles. That bunch did rather well (imo), even if the writing, directing, etc surrounding them was lackluster.

I hear ha. I really liked the turtle actors (except Knoxville, he just don't fit), although Alan's voice is great as long as he doesn't do the Batman/Tough Guy voice, which was something he did most of the rum time, sadly.

And even if the writers made Mikey into a creepy, border-line rapey niceguy. I really like Noel, his voice, and he took the time to learn how to use the Nunchaku, which makes it a big bummer that Mikey barely uses the 'chucks properly in the movie. Heck, when Shredder disarms Mikey and used the chucks for a couple of swings, he was doing more Nunchaku action then Mikey did in the whole movie...

[LeoRaph]

It was Wheelie Humping Fox's Leg not Frenzy

Shows what I remember from the sequels of Bayformers :twink:

[Autbot_Benz]

Shows what I remember from the sequels of Bayformers :twink:

no worries I remember those movies pretty well :p

[TrickOrTreater]

I will though also add the physics, you have them being able to throw a freaking shipping crate but can't move a single human being in armour.

I remember being told over and over again that the Turtles totally weren't throwing shipping containers at the Black Ops Military dudes in the trailer, that that was ridiculous and Liebesman/Bay and company would never pull that.

Not only do they actually throw shipping containers that, empty, weigh around 8,000 lbs, Megan O'Fox SAYS THAT THEY DO OUT LOUD.

And I was told over and over again that they wouldn't do it in the movie.

Good times, good times.

[Leo656]

Yeah, you prefer the reviews from nasally geeks who praise everything. We all have our biases. :trazz:

I remember being told over and over again that the Turtles totally weren't throwing shipping containers at the Black Ops Military dudes in the trailer, that that was ridiculous and Liebesman/Bay and company would never pull that.

Not only do they actually throw shipping containers that, empty, weigh around 8,000 lbs, Megan O'Fox SAYS THAT THEY DO OUT LOUD.

And I was told over and over again that they wouldn't do it in the movie.

Good times, good times.

I'm glad I got two hands, because you both just got an extra-hard High-5.

I feel bad in that, touching on what someone else mentioned, a lot of the actors went to the trouble of actually learning to properly handle their weapons, and seeing the final product, you go, "What was the point?" You don't see enough to make it worth all the effort.

My guess? I bet there were originally to be a lot more martial arts scenes when the script originally called for mutagen-jacked Foot Super Soldiers to be part of the threat. People saw some of that stuff being filmed, so I'm guessing they all got prepared for something that ended up being left on the cutting room floor once they started booking it on the fly near the end.

[TrickOrTreater]

I'm glad I got two hands, because you both just got an extra-hard High-5.

I feel bad in that, touching on what someone else mentioned, a lot of the actors went to the trouble of actually learning to properly handle their weapons, and seeing the final product, you go, "What was the point?" You don't see enough to make it worth all the effort.

My guess? I bet there were originally to be a lot more martial arts scenes when the script originally called for mutagen-jacked Foot Super Soldiers to be part of the threat. People saw some of that stuff being filmed, so I'm guessing they all got prepared for something that ended up being left on the cutting room floor once they started booking it on the fly near the end.

Know what else I remember?

That promised Hari Kari scene between Shredder and a "Foot" member.

Memories, pressed between the pages of my mind...

[Bry]

I still think that what we got is better than what we could have got.

You could say that about literally anything, no matter how bad. But in practice, it's just a way to dismiss valid complaints - just be happy with [Bad Thing] because at least it's not [Worse Thing]!

Sometimes lousy is just lousy. Lousier will always exist, but that doesn't make lousy any better.

By any measure, the script for this movie was utterly broken. Badly written. Objectively.

[Leo656]

Know what else I remember?

That promised Hari Kari scene between Shredder and a "Foot" member.

Memories, pressed between the pages of my mind...

Oh yeeeeeaaaahhh... wuzzup with that, anyway?

Really does seem like the one and only thing rock-solid from Day One was the snow chase scene, and everything else was kind of tacked together around it like a collage or something. Little bits added and subtracted and moved around until you're not looking at anything coherent at all anymore, just a patchwork quilt of madness.

[IndigoErth]

As someone who has had to deal with guys like this towards friends and family, my experience is 99.9% of women do NOT like to be treated in this way and it not only pisses them off but also it pisses guys like me off that they THINK they can. The fact that Megan Fox NEVER does anything about it is her way and the writers way of saying it's okay. Doesn't work in the real world like this So it SHOULDN'T in movies especially that kids watch. Seriously it was practically Frenzy humping Fox's leg again and her being okay with it.
Good old womanizing Hollywood. Would be less annoying if her body language at least expressed discomfort with it or at the very least a "yeah right, kid, I don't think so" kind of look, but Fox of course isn't all that talented with...facial expressions. (Which is kind of shameful considering the CGI Turtles were full of body language.)


I hear ha. I really liked the turtle actors (except Knoxville, he just don't fit), although Alan's voice is great as long as he doesn't do the Batman/Tough Guy voice, which was something he did most of the rum time, sadly.

And even if the writers made Mikey into a creepy, border-line rapey niceguy. I really like Noel, his voice, and he took the time to learn how to use the Nunchaku, which makes it a big bummer that Mikey barely uses the 'chucks properly in the movie. Heck, when Shredder disarms Mikey and used the chucks for a couple of swings, he was doing more Nunchaku action then Mikey did in the whole movie...
Agree, some dialogue aside, Noel was an awesome Mikey. I'm hoping that, assuming they will all be back for the sequel, they'll keep practicing and maybe that one will feature a bit more weapons work from them. :)




Edit: As for wonky things in the script... exactly how old is Shredder if he was "like a father" to Eric Sacks/Sachs? Who is no youngster either. Magic robot suit or not, that is an agile guy for his assumed age range. lol

[TrickOrTreater]

You could say that about literally anything, no matter how bad. But in practice, it's just a way to dismiss valid complaints - just be happy with [Bad Thing] because at least it's not [Worse Thing]!

Sometimes lousy is just lousy. Lousier will always exist, but that doesn't make lousy any better.

By any measure, the script for this movie was utterly broken. Badly written. Objectively.

Seriously.

Why can't we shoot for "awesome" or even "good" instead of "better than Manos: The Hands of Fate"?

Oh yeeeeeaaaahhh... wuzzup with that, anyway?

Same thing that was up with "Oroku Saki" existing in another dimension separate from the rest of the movie.

Some vague dimension that looked like a set that was built over the weekend.

Really does seem like the one and only thing rock-solid from Day One was the snow chase scene, and everything else was kind of tacked together around it like a collage or something. Little bits added and subtracted and moved around until you're not looking at anything coherent at all anymore, just a patchwork quilt of madness.

Building a movie around one action scene. One also riddled with inconsistencies and stupid moments.

The Bay/Liebesman way!

[TrickOrTreater]

Edit: As for wonky things in the script... exactly how old is Shredder if he was "like a father" to Eric Sacks/Sachs? Who is no youngster either. Magic robot suit or not, that is an agile guy for his assumed age range. lol

Well William Fichtner is 57. So Sachs is also around 57.

"Oroku Saki" must be 85.

[Leo656]

The Bay/Liebesman way!

...Could we also call it "The Stennis Way"...? Or is that way too dated even for me?

[TrickOrTreater]

...Could we also call it "The Stennis Way"...? Or is that way too dated even for me?

I've only seen ernest scared stupid so I have no idea what you're talking about...:shifty:

[IndigoErth]

Well William Fichtner is 57. So Sachs is also around 57.

"Oroku Saki" must be 85.
Must be why he was there for the lair fight and wasn't see again until closer to the end. He was at home waiting for the arthritis pills to kick in.

[Leo656]

I've only seen ernest scared stupid so I have no idea what you're talking about...:shifty:

The fact you knew it was an Ernest reference at all proves you're full'a sh*t. :lol:

Heh. We're old.

[TrickOrTreater]

Must be why he was there for the lair fight and wasn't see again until closer to the end. He was at home waiting for the arthritis pills to kick in.

Watchin' Jeopardy, drinking Metamucil.

The fact you knew it was an Ernest reference at all proves you're full'a sh*t. :lol:

Heh. We're old.

NUH UH YOU'RE OLD

[Leo656]

NUH UH YOU'RE OLD

http://www.iconsoffright.com/interview/Brian/CLERKS-0.jpg
".........YOU'RE a cigarette!"

.......Nobody's gonna get that one.

[TrickOrTreater]

http://www.iconsoffright.com/interview/Brian/CLERKS-0.jpg
".........YOU'RE a cigarette!"

.......Nobody's gonna get that one.

Pfft. I own the Clerks Animated Series DVD Box set.

[Leo656]

You're just a straight-up beast, ain't ya? :lol:

P.S. So do I. Maybe we can breed 'em.

[TrickOrTreater]

You're just a straight-up beast, ain't ya? :lol:

P.S. So do I. Maybe we can breed 'em.

Who is driving?

Oh my god bear is driving how can that be?!

[Leo656]

:lol::lol::lol: Oh Sweet Jeebuz. :lol::lol::lol: The Korean Animation Studio strikes again. :lol:

" Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Dante Hicks is just like you: He looooves Grape Soda!" :lol: Un. Real.

Also, that show was funnier than this movie. And this movie failed the Charles Barkley requirement while said animated series did not. It's a subtle but important distinction.

[Bry]

http://www.iconsoffright.com/interview/Brian/CLERKS-0.jpg
".........YOU'RE a cigarette!"

.......Nobody's gonna get that one.

http://s8.postimg.org/9apjuc645/yeoldequickestoppe.jpg

You're just a straight-up beast, ain't ya? :lol:

P.S. So do I. Maybe we can breed 'em.

Mine's still kicking around... somewhere. I dunno if mass DVD breeding is ethical, but... let's science.

[TrickOrTreater]

:lol::lol::lol: Oh Sweet Jeebuz. :lol::lol::lol: The Korean Animation Studio strikes again. :lol:

" Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Dante Hicks is just like you: He looooves Grape Soda!" :lol: Un. Real.

Also, that show was funnier than this movie. And this movie failed the Charles Barkley requirement while said animated series did not. It's a subtle but important distinction.

That is not untrue.

[Leo656]

Krang keeps a dwarf in a gimp mask tethered to a chain in the back room. If I don't at least pretend to be on-topic at least once every 17 days, he unhooks the chain and lets him poke me with a cattle prod. :roll:

[TrickOrTreater]

Krang keeps a dwarf in a gimp mask tethered to a chain in the back room. If I don't at least pretend to be on-topic at least once every 17 days, he unhooks the chain and lets him poke me with a cattle prod. :roll:

I'm totally okay with this. Being on-topic and that sexy dwarf poking you with a cattle prod.


Boy, this movie totally sucked eh?

[Gunpowder]

Been a few months since I've seen the movie, so I can't recall many specifics at the moment...but I think most of us here can agree the script was (predictably) shallow. And I guess it's for the better that it underwent all those rewrites...but they should have had a better writing team in the first place.
http://i58.tinypic.com/rtht0i.jpg

But, come on. When you're dealing with an idiotic plot, how much help can the writing really be? If anything, they suit each other, in that they're both laughable. This thing was all about visuals.

[Candy Kappa]

Another thing that bothered me, which is more the sound department then the writing, I guess. But the turtles where loud, way too loud. Not just vocally, but during their Batman Begins moment in the shipping container yard.

The scene was relatively cool, up until the shipping container was thrown at the Foot. But the sound effects of the turtles "stealth running" around was way to loud, and really not ideal at all for sneaking sfx.n

[B-Man]

I'm fine with the script (honestly I expected way, way worse), I just wanted one thing that never happened: a scene with the Turtles hanging out & getting to know April. Just ONE SCENE would do. Most of her screentime with them, she's staring at them with confusion & fear. Realistic I guess (they'd be a sight you wouldn't get used to in a hurry) but a scene similar to the impersonation games scene in the 1990 film would've been awesome. Would've also given Fox a chance to show some personality.

[Coola Yagami]

The script was awful and sloppily put together, but people seem to keep forgetting that it was always going to be this way. Yes, they went back and changed stuff here and there due to fan backlash, but everyone saying 'they should have just stuck to their guns' are forgetting how messed up things would have been if they did. Either alien Turtles or Sachs as Schroeder or Shredder. It still would have been bad. Perhaps the re-writes made the movie worse or or even a little better, but the end result is still a bad script. It was just a bad script and they had no idea what they were doing.

[TrickOrTreater]

Been a few months since I've seen the movie, so I can't recall many specifics at the moment...but I think most of us here can agree the script was (predictably) shallow. And I guess it's for the better that it underwent all those rewrites...but they should have had a better writing team in the first place.
http://i58.tinypic.com/rtht0i.jpg

But, come on. When you're dealing with an idiotic plot, how much help can the writing really be? If anything, they suit each other, in that they're both laughable. This thing was all about visuals.

Which were also bad. No weight to them and all the action scenes were messy and disjointed and ugly.

Another thing that bothered me, which is more the sound department then the writing, I guess. But the turtles where loud, way too loud. Not just vocally, but during their Batman Begins moment in the shipping container yard.

The scene was relatively cool, up until the shipping container was thrown at the Foot. But the sound effects of the turtles "stealth running" around was way to loud, and really not ideal at all for sneaking sfx.n

Seriously. They were about as stealthy as a baby elephant in a glass figurine shop. Even the joke of them sneaking back into the lair and Mikey making noise was completely ruined because THEY WERE ALL MAKING NOISE.

The one time even one of them managed to be completely silent and stealthy and it was used for a joke scene. Then...no more after that.

[Candy Kappa]

The one time even one of them managed to be completely silent and stealthy and it was used for a joke scene. Then...no more after that.

Yeah, and the joke would have been much better delivered if the turtles actually was stealthy to begin with, both me and my partner thought it was a very off-character moment for Raph the big hulking brute to suddenly act like a ninja.

The Victoria Secret scene was relatively stealthy as well, at least in comparison to the movie, but that scene wa also a joke moment and not even a part of the movie's narrative...

[TrickOrTreater]

Yeah, and the joke would have been much better delivered if the turtles actually was stealthy to begin with, both me and my partner thought it was a very off-character moment for Raph the big hulking brute to suddenly act like a ninja.

The Victoria Secret scene was relatively stealthy as well, at least in comparison to the movie, but that scene wa also a joke moment and not even a part of the movie's narrative...

"Lol ninjas are dumb, all quiet and stealthy and sh*t. It's hilarious and stupid. Big hulking monsters that WRECK SH*T UP BRO are so much cooler and hip." -People involved in this movie.

[Leo656]

:lol:

Well, they were basing the entire thing on what little kids find entertaining, so in that respect they hit the nail right on the head.

That being the case, I nominate that we just eliminate the restrictions on voting age, too. F*ck it. Some kid with a load in his pants can dictate the course of a million-dollar movie or a billion-dollar industry, but he can't pick the President? What sense does that make? Just dumb everything down so any kid who can take his finger out of his nose long enough gets to nominate Ronald McDonald as a write-in candidate in 2016. Why not? :lol:

If you're going to spend hundreds of million dollars appeasing children instead of, y'know, People, then take it all the way, I say. :lol:

[J.J.Sav]

First of all I really did enjoy the movie regardless of all the plotholes. My problem with the story is this.

Sach's plan was to gas the city, making everyone sick while he holds the cure. He injected the mutigen into 4 turtles and a rat so that they would mutate and he could later use their blood to create more of the cure (Sorry, if I'm messing this part up a bit). But, due to a fire he believed the turtles, rat, all of his data, everything he needed, was lost. The plan is scrapt.

15 years go by and because April opened her mouth to him and told him that the turtles were still alive (I understand that she didn't know he was a bad guy at the time) the plan is suddenly back on. A tower on top of the Sach's building is still fully functional and there are four glass cages all ready and set up to drain the turtles blood. There was a lot of high tech equipment made for specimens he believed were killed years ago.

The thing is if April hadn't said anything, Sach's plan to gas the city would've remained mute and there would no longer have been a movie or least the rest of the movie from that moment on. Up until that point, what was Sach's plan? Get 'stupid rich' by using the Foot Clan to rob every one?

[Coola Yagami]

The biggest plot hole on top of what you mentiond is that the Mutagen was the cure.... and of course it was tested on lab animals, in this case the turtles and splinter. But like dude.... this cure turned them into 6 foot tall talking monsters. That's one HELL of a side effect for something originally meant to cure a disease. Turning a normal turtle into a giant talking mutant is more of a side effect than just 'might cause drowsiness'. And yet Sachs just kind of ignored this and was still going to use Mutagen on human, including himself if necessary to cure anyone infected by the plague?


And you brought up a good point, the plan was scrapped for years and yet he still had all the equipment lying around anyways. He had no idea this miracle drug would turn normal animals into giant monsters and yet he had 4 big-ass cages designed to contain giant animal monsters. The more I think about it the less it makes sense.

[Leo656]

I'd wager anything that equipment, cages etc. were all hold-overs from when the previously scripted plan was for Sachs/Shredder to be using the Mutagen to create super-powered Foot soldiers. That actually seems to make a ton more sense than what they ended up with. It's still kind of cliche', but it's not AS bad. If anything it would still better explain why they still had all that stuff handy.

They must have had too much footage where Sachs was Shredder and heavily involved in the scenes to salvage any of it into the actual movie, is my guess.

[Coola Yagami]

I'd wager anything that equipment, cages etc. were all hold-overs from when the previously scripted plan was for Sachs/Shredder to be using the Mutagen to create super-powered Foot soldiers. That actually seems to make a ton more sense than what they ended up with. It's still kind of cliche', but it's not AS bad. If anything it would still better explain why they still had all that stuff handy.

They must have had too much footage where Sachs was Shredder and heavily involved in the scenes to salvage any of it into the actual movie, is my guess.

One can only imagine the amount of money and effort saved if they had only tried to film a Ninja Turtle movie instead.

[Gunpowder]

Which were also bad. No weight to them and all the action scenes were messy and disjointed and ugly.

Eh, I have to disagree. I thought the visuals were one of the movie's strong points; it wasn't 100% sh!t. The action was a bit clunky, yeah. But, detail-wise, I thought the Turtles looked great. (Splinter, though? Not so much.)

[Jester]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55190052.jpg

[TrickOrTreater]

Eh, I have to disagree. I thought the visuals were one of the movie's strong points; it wasn't 100% sh!t. The action was a bit clunky, yeah. But, detail-wise, I thought the Turtles looked great. (Splinter, though? Not so much.)

The action was more *CAMERA WON'T STOP MOVING AROUND* than a bit clunky. When *SHOT OF VERNON STARING AT MEGAN'S ASS WHILE ENDANGERING THEIR LIVES* I wasn't completely bored *ANOTHER GODDAMN SLO MO SHOT THAT SHOULD HAVE OBLITERATED A TURTLE* I could barely tell what was going on.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55190052.jpg

If only I had somebody heckling the movie for me.

Really wish Rifftrax would release a commentary for it.

[jenna]

Plot issues and characterisation aside.... There is a principle in writing of 'show, don't tell'. Seeing something happen is much more engaging than being told that it has happened.

For example....

1. April and Vern open the film with a discussion about April wanting to be a serious reporter. This is 'tell'. Had the writers elected simply to let us realise this for ourselves by seeing April's interactions with the dude at the docks and in the news room, this would have been more interesting.

2. Raphael tells his brothers "I'm going out on my own". Again, this is 'tell'. This point could have easily been made if it was just Raphael who was fighting at the docks, or at least show him doing something on his own. This would have 'shown' us that his inclination was to operate solo.

3. "Mikey, remember the thing you used to say as kids?", "You made me promise never to say it again!" This is 'tell'. It would have been much more engaging to have had Mikey say 'Cowabunga' in the flashback sequence, maybe during buck-buck and Raphael getting stroppy about it. Then this line would have had some purpose other than 'telling' us that Mikey used to say 'Cowabunga'.

These are just a few examples where the writers have used 'tell' rather than 'show'. In fact there are loads more examples. Tell isn't necessary bad writing, just lazy writing.

So no, I don't think the script was well-written. It had its moments, but broadly, writers of this calibre are capable of a lot better.

[Jester]

2. Raphael tells his brothers "I'm going out on my own". Again, this is 'tell'. This point could have easily been made if it was just Raphael who was fighting at the docks, or at least show him doing something on his own. This would have 'shown' us that his inclination was to operate solo.
And this is also why it didn't work...because all they did was tell us this....that one time... Very little of Raph's actual motivation is shown in the movie. It also makes whole "I love you guys!!!" bit at the end ring false, because there's little about Raph to make us wonder if he does actually love his bros.

[Machias Banshee]

I'd kinda like to see if some of the writer types here on the forums could get their hands on a copy of the script and do their own rewrite, just to see what other people could come up with...

[Leo656]

Too much of it relied on pre-existing knowledge of the characters and their personalities/history.

[Jester]

Too much of it relied on pre-existing knowledge of the characters and their personalities/history.
When I was discussing the movie with Powder on FB that's exactly what I said. The feeling I had during the lair scene where Splinter is beaten by Shredder while the Turtles watch brokenheartedly wasn't "earned". I felt for the characters because I've been a fan for almost 30 years.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, pre-existing knowledge...and then turned around and changed some things within the foundation of the entire franchise as if we had no prior knowledge at all and would go unnoticeable. :roll:


I don't write too often (and I don't really do fanfic stuff either), but on the occasion I feel inspired to I'm often rereading back a bit from where I left off before. You know, just to refresh the memory of where I'd left off and what was going had recently been going on in the storyline. Some of this movie makes me feel as if no one ever reread anything. Do scripts get editors like books? They really aught to consider one...

[neatoman]

I would actually have to read the script to tell if it was bad, but it probably was. The problems of this movie seems to stem more from the clusterf*ck editing caused by fan uproar and the general behind the scenes meddling. However, yeah the script was probably bad...

[Splint'r]

Plot issues and characterisation aside.... There is a principle in writing of 'show, don't tell'. Seeing something happen is much more engaging than being told that it has happened.

For example....

1. April and Vern open the film with a discussion about April wanting to be a serious reporter. This is 'tell'. Had the writers elected simply to let us realise this for ourselves by seeing April's interactions with the dude at the docks and in the news room, this would have been more interesting.

2. Raphael tells his brothers "I'm going out on my own". Again, this is 'tell'. This point could have easily been made if it was just Raphael who was fighting at the docks, or at least show him doing something on his own. This would have 'shown' us that his inclination was to operate solo.

3. "Mikey, remember the thing you used to say as kids?", "You made me promise never to say it again!" This is 'tell'. It would have been much more engaging to have had Mikey say 'Cowabunga' in the flashback sequence, maybe during buck-buck and Raphael getting stroppy about it. Then this line would have had some purpose other than 'telling' us that Mikey used to say 'Cowabunga'.

These are just a few examples where the writers have used 'tell' rather than 'show'. In fact there are loads more examples. Tell isn't necessary bad writing, just lazy writing.

So no, I don't think the script was well-written. It had its moments, but broadly, writers of this calibre are capable of a lot better.

I couldn't have said it any better. All of this. It deserves a Shredder icon. :shredder:

[IndigoErth]

I would actually have to read the script to tell if it was bad, but it probably was. The problems of this movie seems to stem more from the clusterf*ck editing caused by fan uproar and the general behind the scenes meddling. However, yeah the script was probably bad...
Add in probably their own poor time management as well, considering it sounded as though they ran it down to the wire, along with keeping the public largely in the dark for so long that they find out some decisions were a poor idea late in the game and leave themselves with little time to change course if they choose to do so.

[TrickOrTreater]

Add in probably their own poor time management as well, considering it sounded as though they ran it down to the wire, along with keeping the public largely in the dark for so long that they find out some decisions were a poor idea late in the game and leave themselves with little time to change course if they choose to do so.

See I disagree. Fan uproar started the MINUTE they cast a white guy as Shredder.

Every sane person hated the change and were very vocal about it.

And they had plenty of time to change it back but they blinked at the 11th hour and then we got even more of a disjointed mess of a movie.

[IndigoErth]

See I disagree. Fan uproar started the MINUTE they cast a white guy as Shredder.

Every sane person hated the change and were very vocal about it.

And they had plenty of time to change it back but they blinked at the 11th hour and then we got even more of a disjointed mess of a movie.
How long before August had it been known of? I don't even recall anymore, feel like everything just went haywire mid spring.

[Andrew NDB]

http://i.imgur.com/5vUnLcV.gif

[TrickOrTreater]

How long before August had it been known of? I don't even recall anymore, feel like everything just went haywire mid spring.

As early as June of 2013.

http://www.avclub.com/article/emninja-turtlesem-casts-william-fichtner-as-shredd-99416

His casting was announced around May of 2013

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/10/william-fichtner-joins-ninja-turtles

So yeah, they had PLENTY of time to actually change it the right way.

But they didn't. They f*cked it up even more.

Because they are dumb as hell.

[Xiewin]

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/738095-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-director-producers-interview

Interviewer: It’s a perpendicular segue, but I’d like you to tell me about the way this film was developed, and the origin of the Turtles. It seems like this wouldn't be the version of the film you would have made ten years ago, before Batman Begins looked at origin of heroes and felt the need to explain it all. Where did they learn ninjitsu? Where did they get the weapons… actually, I don’t think you mention where they got the weapons…

Andrew Form: Well, Splinter gives them their weapons.

Interviewer: He just had them?

Andrew Form: Yes.

Interviewer: It’s a brisk movie by modern blockbuster standards. Is there a longer version with a lot more character development that’s on the cutting room floor?

Jonathan Liebesman: Listen, we did shoot a lot. I think the challenge with this movie, you see a big budget movie usually the action is super expensive because that’s where your CGI is. In this movie, the dialogue is where the movie’s expensive. So we had to tell a story within an amount of time that was within our budget, and also pick and choose which were the most important scenes. So there was always scenes which were on the cutting room floor. Like I said, I was try to fit in some origin stuff here or do some stuff there, but ultimately what’s most important is in the movie.


Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.

How did I not see this coming? How could anyone make such awful decisions? This whole interview is just wrong...I was at-least trying to have hope for a sequel, but no, it's going to be just as terrible as the first one. This is just ridiculous. it's like the last Air-bender all over again, they had the choice to make the ultimate turtles movie using 30 years of material and they puke out some lazily written film with Megan as the main character...
I know that my venting is getting really repetitive, but I can't help but so frustrated that these very people are in charge of first-live action turtle film since 1990 one, and they just completely wasted the opportunity.

[IndigoErth]

Andrew Form: Well, Splinter gives them their weapons.

Interviewer: He just had them?

Andrew Form: Yes.
I'm curious where some folks like this got their education. (Or did they just 'luck out' and get into the film biz without?) I am SURE art/film schools would undoubtedly include courses on the writing and all the ins and outs of having strong stories, plots etc. Some poor instructor has read that and died a bit inside.

I mean, that's as bad as answering where the mutagen came from with "it fell off a truck."



As early as June of 2013.

http://www.avclub.com/article/emninja-turtlesem-casts-william-fichtner-as-shredd-99416

His casting was announced around May of 2013

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/10/william-fichtner-joins-ninja-turtles

So yeah, they had PLENTY of time to actually change it the right way.

But they didn't. They f*cked it up even more.

Because they are dumb as hell.
*facepalm*

[Xiewin]

I'm curious where some folks like this got their education. (Or did they just 'luck out' and get into the film biz without?) I am SURE art/film schools would undoubtedly include courses on the writing and all the ins and outs of having strong stories, plots etc. Some poor instructor has read that and died a bit inside.

I mean, that's as bad as answering where the mutagen came from with "it fell off a truck."

Well they could be dropouts, or they probably never bothered to get one.

[TrickOrTreater]

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/738095-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-director-producers-interview

Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.

And we all know whose fault THAT was:

http://i.imgur.com/9tEBNpG.jpg?1

[Linkage]

It was just a lazy, lazy script with no heart.

This sums it up quite nicely. I don't mind a movie full of plot holes and minimal character development - as long as I feel entertained for the two hours or whatever a film is and walk away from the theatre having had a good evening. Problem with Turtles is that without any heart, I found the movie was plain boring. I really didn't care about anything overall.

[IndigoErth]

And we all know whose fault THAT was:

http://i.imgur.com/9tEBNpG.jpg?1
Oh come now... we all know "He was only a producer, he didn't direct it! Blarga blarga blarga!!"

That interview right there couldn't possibly make it loud and clear - nope, nada, never, can't be, what interview, I don't see an interview - that yes, Bay had a heavy hand in it. Because, I don't care what some say, money buys the ability to have say in things, directorial title are not.

[TrickOrTreater]

Oh come now... we all know "He was only a producer, he didn't direct it! Blarga blarga blarga!!"

That interview right there couldn't possibly make it loud and clear - nope, nada, never, can't be, what interview, I don't see an interview - that yes, Bay had a heavy hand in it. Because, I don't care what some say, money buys the ability to have say in things, directorial title are not.

Hell it was even said by one of the concept artists on the film that Bay himself told them to make the Turtles bigger.

Don't remember where I read that but I'm positive I did.

[Leo656]

I know that my venting is getting really repetitive...

Nah, I love it. :lol: I remember back in the day you were such an optimistic sweetheart, and this movie is SO BAD that it's entirely corrupted you and washed away that youthful innocence, possibly forever.

I mean, THAT part sucks. But it's a part of life. :lol: Don't worry, you'll find love again. Just hopefully not with any movies made by any of these twat-waffles. :tgrin:

[Powder]

Hell it was even said by one of the concept artists on the film that Bay himself told them to make the Turtles bigger.

Don't remember where I read that but I'm positive I did.

He's also directly responsible for The Boot Clan. Read an interview with somebody who said he came on set only once or twice & went on a rant about how there were no guns & he wanted lots. From then on the foot were armed & revamped.

[Leo656]

F*ck, man, he really IS the Jon Peters of the TMNT franchise. Holy sh*t, how do people fail so far upwards in life? I mean, "Armageddon" was alright, but it wasn't THAT good. Yeesh.

[TrickOrTreater]

He's also directly responsible for The Boot Clan. Read an interview with somebody who said he came on set only once or twice & went on a rant about how there were no guns & he wanted lots. From then on the foot were armed & revamped.

Which reminds me, it was SOOOOO funny how I was told over and over again how the Black Ops Dudes would TOTES have ninja weapons and ninja skills and all that.

Lo and behold. Not. A Goddamn. Thing.

I'll just refer you all to the gif in my signature.

[Jester]

Karai walking in circles??

I kid. I kid....

[Coola Yagami]

Which reminds me, it was SOOOOO funny how I was told over and over again how the Black Ops Dudes would TOTES have ninja weapons and ninja skills and all that.

Lo and behold. Not. A Goddamn. Thing.

I'll just refer you all to the gif in my signature.

Everybody was in such denial whenever a new fact came out about the movie. And then when the movie came out those same people became total hypocrits and said they loved and it and the rest of us 'didn't give it a chance'. The same people complaining about alien turtles and Sachs-Shredder are now saying 'they should have stuck to their guns and not change a thing'.

It's insanity I tell you.

[Leo656]

Which reminds me, it was SOOOOO funny how I was told over and over again how the Black Ops Dudes would TOTES have ninja weapons and ninja skills and all that.

Lo and behold. Not. A Goddamn. Thing.


You were. You were definitely told that. Repeatedly. I will vouch that I personally witnessed many, MANY posters, most of which no longer brave this wasteland, tell you with the utmost certainty and snootiness that, indeed, "Just wait and see, they will be Ninja-ing out the ass, just like Kevin Eastman promised, because Kevin Eastman helped them make it, and Kevin Eastman would never sell out the integrity of a property he co-created and then tried to immediately distance himself from for many, many years, simply for money. He cares too much about the fans, after all. So just you wait, there will be epic Ninja Action and tons of it, and the movie will definitely NOT be the corniest goddamn thing you ever saw. Honest."

I believe you were also called a "whiny know-it-all" and stuff like that quite repeatedly for daring to doubt them. I may be paraphrasing. And when they found out they'd been 100% in the wrong, all they had was, "Whatever, it was still good!" People sure don't like having to stand by their rhetoric.

I'll cop to being wrong, it made more than I expected. That's about it.

[Xiewin]

Nah, I love it. :lol: I remember back in the day you were such an optimistic sweetheart, and this movie is SO BAD that it's entirely corrupted you and washed away that youthful innocence, possibly forever.

I mean, THAT part sucks. But it's a part of life. :lol: Don't worry, you'll find love again. Just hopefully not with any movies made by any of these twat-waffles. :tgrin:

:lol: Nahh I always had my doubts, but I had no idea that they would botch up production THIS badly. lmao now I'm starting to regret for ever defending these people, I guess I'll have to refrain myself from reading anymore into this movie before I go into another rage mode.

He's also directly responsible for The Boot Clan. Read an interview with somebody who said he came on set only once or twice & went on a rant about how there were no guns & he wanted lots. From then on the foot were armed & revamped.

Great, and I thought I would never see the day when I would become a "bay-hater."

[TrickOrTreater]

You were. You were definitely told that. Repeatedly. I will vouch that I personally witnessed many, MANY posters, most of which no longer brave this wasteland, tell you with the utmost certainty and snootiness that, indeed, "Just wait and see, they will be Ninja-ing out the ass, just like Kevin Eastman promised, because Kevin Eastman helped them make it, and Kevin Eastman would never sell out the integrity of a property he co-created and then tried to immediately distance himself from for many, many years, simply for money. He cares too much about the fans, after all. So just you wait, there will be epic Ninja Action and tons of it, and the movie will definitely NOT be the corniest goddamn thing you ever saw. Honest."

I believe you were also called a "whiny know-it-all" and stuff like that quite repeatedly for daring to doubt them. I may be paraphrasing. And when they found out they'd been 100% in the wrong, all they had was, "Whatever, it was still good!" People sure don't like having to stand by their rhetoric.

I'll cop to being wrong, it made more than I expected. That's about it.

Oh yeah. I was hoping upon hope it would tank and probably even said that it would.

Didn't make as much as GotG or most of the other GOOD summer blockbusters this year, but it made money.

And now we get to do this all over again!

But yeah. I won't NAME NAMES or anything but...I, we, was so, so utterly right about...pretty much everything!

[Leo656]

Great, and I thought I would never see the day when I would become a bay-hater.

To be fair, while "Bay-Hater" is a cliche anymore, it's NOT incorrect to be one. There are REASONS, legitimate ones, why people think his movies are bad.

Like, my thing about using that term as an insult is, it's not an insult if it's valid. Just because it's a "cheap cliche" doesn't mean people shouldn't feel that way. Most, not all, but most of his films are simply not good. Very flashy, and even very exciting on a visceral level at times, but not "Good". And people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

To me, it's far more questionable for people to admit liking Bad movies in a completely un-ironic sense. Sure, everyone likes bad movies to some degree; but some people actually enjoy them, and that puzzles me. It's like they're not in on the joke.

[Xiewin]

To be fair, while "Bay-Hater" is a cliche anymore, it's NOT incorrect to be one. There are REASONS, legitimate ones, why people think his movies are bad.

Like, my thing about using that term as an insult is, it's not an insult if it's valid. Just because it's a "cheap cliche" doesn't mean people shouldn't feel that way. Most, not all, but most of his films are simply not good. Very flashy, and even very exciting on a visceral level at times, but not "Good". And people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

To me, it's far more questionable for people to admit liking Bad movies in a completely un-ironic sense. Sure, everyone likes bad movies to some degree; but some people actually enjoy them, and that puzzles me. It's like they're not in on the joke.

I admittedly forgot to put it between quotations, but the reason to why I used that term was particularly because it's such an overused word to describe those who "whine" about this movies. But yeah, I agree that their not wrong. They do have legitimate reasons for disliking his films, and It's obvious because almost every single movie he makes is just absolutely terrible on so many levels. And I'm glad I'm one now. So you're right, people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I thought the new TMNT movie was better than expected. However, my expectations were pretty low.

I liked that a lot of the movie followed April O'Neil. I think it would have been neat to have a relatively normal reporter enter this strange world of mutant turtles and Foot clans. I'm not a huge fan of April having this connection with the turtles from the start. There were a few cute scenes that came out of it, but it came off as too forced.

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.

[TrickOrTreater]

I thought the new TMNT movie was better than expected. However, my expectations were pretty low.

I liked that a lot of the movie followed April O'Neil. I think it would have been neat to have a relatively normal reporter enter this strange world of mutant turtles and Foot clans. I'm not a huge fan of April having this connection with the turtles from the start. There were a few cute scenes that came out of it, but it came off as too forced.

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.

Absolutely. That's why it was called April O'Neil: The Movie.

[IndigoErth]

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.
Yeah, it's little stuff like that, that would be so simple to tweak, which collectively is just... :roll: I mean, I dunno, why not have the child April trip and lose them? Too difficult?

Goodness knows doing it that way and April is upset about it, it might solicit sympathy from the audience for both the 'lab animals' and young April. But.. macho Bay movie, emotions are scary, can't include those.

[Coola Yagami]

One can only imagine what April is thinking.
"My long lost pets I loved and named as a child are back.... And they can talk.. And one of them wants to bone me..."

[TigerClaw]

One can only imagine what April is thinking.
"My long lost pets I loved and named as a child are back.... And they can talk.. And one of them wants to bone me..."
Maybe when they were working on the script, and hearing about Megan Fox being a huge fan of Mikey, They probably tried working that into the movie a bit more.

The Nick series has Donnie falling head over heals with April, And they been taking that further.

[Chris]

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/738095-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-director-producers-interview

That interview is just horrible to read as a TMNT fan. They just don't get it at all. It's painful. They basically thought as long as we have cool action scenes, the guys yell "cowabunga" and fight Shredder then everyone will be happy.

The part about bringing Jonathan Liebesman inboard basically confirms what we already thought - they had 1 big action scene in mind. They pitched the film based on that and worked everything else around it. Story comes second to "this scene is gonna be cool". Liebesman even confirms Raph smacking into the Humvee with his shell was in there from the start. So never mind that the eventual script has him injured with a cracked shell, the "signature moment" remains unchanged.

"Writers throwing out lines" - yep, that's how the script was put together and it shows. Seriously, I know a lot of films have the writers on set making tweaks based on how the actors are approaching the material and any changes to story that are required, but I actually wouldn't be surprised if most of this script was done on the fly, tweaking the blue doors script as they went. Especially when you have one of the producers saying that Splinter "just had" their weapons lying around. I'm not surprised by the answer but that level of absolute stupidity still hurts.

"Dialogue is expensive" - erm not really. A CGI turtle is a CGI turtle whether it's an action scene or a dialogue scene. What he means is they feel the money is better spent on the action scenes rather than on scenes that add depth to the characters or plot. Plus if it was that expensive to animate and you want to save money take all the rubbish off the TMNT, having to animate all that extra stuff on them may not have cost a fortune but it can't have helped keep costs down. The "most important scenes" were therefore those that strung their big set pieces together in the most efficient way possible (or at least kept the TMNT out of most of the exposition scenes).

If cost was that much of an issue (and it sure sounds like it was behind everything from the running time to how much time the guys had on screen) then they shouldn't have made the TMNT fully CGI mini Hulks. They should have gone the guys in suits with faces done motion capture route that Laird talked about before the sale. Fully motion captured for action scenes maybe. Plus that would mean Shredder wouldn't need to be Megatron Jr so they'd save there too. Unique silhouettes is fine (it's been done for a while now) but the bulk up wasn't needed and if it drove up the costs when things were as tight as it sounds then it was a bad idea.

Deleted scenes - yes you could do that (most people would understand having unfinished/no special affects or animatics) you just don't want to or can't because it would show just how much the plot was altered during production as Sacks and Shredder were split into different characters. Why they just can't admit this I'll never know! It's so obvious and the international trailers even use Fichtner's dialogue tracks in the Shredder clips.

"Super Duper Shredder"? I'm actually scared! How many more blades can they fit on that guy?!

[Bry]

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/interviews/738095-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-director-producers-interview

Hahahaha. Ohhh man. It's like a parade of idiots.

Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.

I love how oblivious he is to the fact that the 'roided-out Hulk Turtles were an objectively terrible idea. The minute he says the words "if you’re going to", how does he not realize they clearly shouldn't have? Is there no voice in his head saying, "if you have to make excuses and justifications for your decision, maybe it was a bad decision"? That's how dumb and talentless these people are about creating movies and crafting stories. They have no concept of actual drama or struggle or stakes. Just "BIGGER IS BETTER, KEWL, AWESOME, BOOM BOOM BANG".

I know that my venting is getting really repetitive, but I can't help but so frustrated that these very people are in charge of first-live action turtle film since 1990 one, and they just completely wasted the opportunity.

On the plus side, the 1990 movie still exists and can be rewatched any time. God knows I had to on August 9th in order to get the rotten taste of this thing out of my brain. (And it worked!)

I believe you were also called a "whiny know-it-all" and stuff like that quite repeatedly for daring to doubt them. I may be paraphrasing. And when they found out they'd been 100% in the wrong, all they had was, "Whatever, it was still good!" People sure don't like having to stand by their rhetoric.

I'll cop to being wrong, it made more than I expected. That's about it.

There are always the kind of fans who will be happy with anything. And that's fine for them. But when they get aggressive about it, spewing denial as if it's fact, breathlessly defending everything and anything, and getting pushy and hostile with anyone who doesn't want to lower their standards so low the bar's buried underground... you're gonna have a bad time.

[jenna]

Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.


Ok. Now I'm just angry. Worried The Shredder would seem like the underdog? Well then don't make the turtles giant hulks! Seriously. It's not that difficult. Giant turtles defeats the whole point of the turtles. Size does not equal awesomeness. They are supposed to be unlikely heroes. Did Liebesman never read 'The Tortoise and the Hare'? It's called irony.

[Leo656]

The only principle Bay and Co. believe in is, "Bigger Is Better". Anything else is subject to change, but Bigger Is Better will always be their starting point.

And that's why everything they do is overblown, over-produced, over-done, and over-stupid. You can NOT build a solid house on a cracked foundation.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

What the hell?

Let’s go back further. Why did you feel the need to buff up the Turtles? They’re taller than they’ve ever been…

Jonathan Liebesman: So Michael [Bay]s’ initial instinct, which I think is an excellent instinct, is for people who aren’t fans of the Turtles, he wanted to distinguish them physically from one another so you could literally see their silhouette and tell the difference between the Turtles. And I think that’s very smart because not everyone grew up loving Ninja Turtles.

.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

[TrickOrTreater]

Ok. Now I'm just angry. Worried The Shredder would seem like the underdog? Well then don't make the turtles giant hulks! Seriously. It's not that difficult. Giant turtles defeats the whole point of the turtles. Size does not equal awesomeness. They are supposed to be unlikely heroes. Did Liebesman never read 'The Tortoise and the Hare'? It's called irony.

This was literally all I was saying when this aspect of the movie was brought up during filming, and I was met with almost nothing but "shut up whiny hater".

I know I've said this a lot recently but it's kinda chapped my ass about not only being met with that during filming, but also NOT having a good new live-action TMNT movie.

[TrickOrTreater]

What the hell?



.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

It's really as stupid as it sounds.

Yes, in the original cartoon, if you couldn't see the masks or weapons it was a little hard to tell who was who.

But, for example, the NEW cartoon has solved this issue by giving the Turtles not only different heights(while still keeping them Ninja Turtley) but also giving them different body types.

Leo is the lean leader, Raph is the stocky fighter, Donnie is the tall thin tech guy, and Mikey is the youngest smallest party kid.

Visibly recognizable even in silhouettes and freaking everything.

Folks on the cartoon are actually talented and care about the fans though.

[Bry]

What the hell?

.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

It really is. Notice how he never actually answers the question?

Thing is, giving them unique body types in addition to their unique personalities actually is a smart idea. And like Trick said, the Nick show did a brilliant job giving them unique body types without completely changing their overall appearance - they're absolutely still the TMNT as everyone knows and loves them, and though they stand out better as individuals, they still look like a cohesive unit together.

Meanwhile, Liebesman's answer is clearly him trying to find a logical reason for the decision after-the-fact, and failing. Because it was never logical. It was solely based on Bay's need for everything to be as big and over-the-top as possible at all times. And you're right - at their massive size, it's actually harder to tell their individual body types apart, because the frame of reference is already far bigger than anyone could naturally be used to. People will look at them and just see "big". Which is why the Nick show's designs can be far subtler than Bay's but also far more effective.

[IndigoErth]

The part about bringing Jonathan Liebesman inboard basically confirms what we already thought - they had 1 big action scene in mind. They pitched the film based on that and worked everything else around it. Story comes second to "this scene is gonna be cool". Liebesman even confirms Raph smacking into the Humvee with his shell was in there from the start. So never mind that the eventual script has him injured with a cracked shell, the "signature moment" remains unchanged.

Given that this scene was rather hard on Leo... not sure how I feel about them basing a movie around a central scene that pretty much beat the snot out of him.

At least I guess he got to look all heroic 'n stuff in a piece of it...



The silhouettes thing is kind of ridiculous. As has been mentioned, look at Nick. That is a lot more simple, cartoony design and yet the subtle variations make it obvious enough if you only saw a silhouetted shape of each. Guess they assume most of the audience isn't observant enough and too dumb to figure that out with the movie guys, must go overboard.

[Leo656]

It's pretty obvious that "The Audience Is Dumb" was a major point the studio was very reliant on. Most of their... "Questionable" decisions were clearly made with "The fans are stupid, they won't care" as the reasoning behind it.

[Coola Yagami]

It's pretty obvious that "The Audience Is Dumb" was a major point the studio was very reliant on. Most of their... "Questionable" decisions were clearly made with "The fans are stupid, they won't care" as the reasoning behind it.

It just upsets me that so many fans and audiences proved them right..... That's the part that really gets me.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I know. I feel the same about wrestling fans, sometimes. Like, they buy my stuff, so God Bless 'Em, but oh man... sometimes... sometimes...

[IndigoErth]

It's pretty obvious that "The Audience Is Dumb" was a major point the studio was very reliant on. Most of their... "Questionable" decisions were clearly made with "The fans are stupid, they won't care" as the reasoning behind it.
Irks me that a few of them, including Bay, then turned around and had to throw an attitude.

Film people: Yeah, I get it, no matter if the choices were good or bad you were working hard on it and got defensive. But wtf... No one owes you anything for making it. You're talking about people who care a lot about these characters and the franchise. That's like painting your elderly neighbor's house pink at your own choosing then bitching at her family for not liking it when they complain about the paint job. Can't screw with something important to people without repercussions. At least take it like a damn professional.

[pennydreadful]

Film people: Yeah, I get it, no matter if the choices were good or bad you were working hard on it and got defensive. But wtf... No one owes you anything for making it. You're talking about people who care a lot about these characters and the franchise. That's like painting your elderly neighbor's house pink at your own choosing then bitching at her family for not liking it when they complain about the paint job. Can't screw with something important to people without repercussions. At least take it like a damn professional.

Oh Indigo, don't you know that we should be grateful for every corn-riddled nugget that drops from these peoples'.... brains? :lol:

We are just jellus haterz who take it all too seriously. And we have no lives, or we're virgins or something. I know I had a bingo card around here somewhere with the usual movie defense arguments...

:P

[jenna]

Irks me that a few of them, including Bay, then turned around and had to throw an attitude.

Film people: Yeah, I get it, no matter if the choices were good or bad you were working hard on it and got defensive. But wtf... No one owes you anything for making it. You're talking about people who care a lot about these characters and the franchise. That's like painting your elderly neighbor's house pink at your own choosing then bitching at her family for not liking it when they complain about the paint job. Can't screw with something important to people without repercussions. At least take it like a damn professional.

Quoted for absolute truth.

[Bry]

Irks me that a few of them, including Bay, then turned around and had to throw an attitude.

Film people: Yeah, I get it, no matter if the choices were good or bad you were working hard on it and got defensive. But wtf... No one owes you anything for making it. You're talking about people who care a lot about these characters and the franchise. That's like painting your elderly neighbor's house pink at your own choosing then bitching at her family for not liking it when they complain about the paint job. Can't screw with something important to people without repercussions. At least take it like a damn professional.

So well-said. Yup. Exactly.

Megan Fox's nasty little tirade was enough for me to promise never to pay for anything she's involved with again. (I already had the same policy for Michael Bay, but that was because everything he touches is god-awful. :trazz: )

It says a lot about what they think of their audience and their craft when their standard response to any questioning or criticism is, "you'll see it anyway, so who cares?" and/or "if you don't love it, then **** you". I may be a massive TMNT fan, but if they don't care about making their audience happy or even about what they're making being any good, why should I care enough to support it, or them? Why should anyone? That's gotta be the limit.

[Xav]

He's also directly responsible for The Boot Clan. Read an interview with somebody who said he came on set only once or twice & went on a rant about how there were no guns & he wanted lots. From then on the foot were armed & revamped.Really? Do you have a link?

[IndigoErth]

It says a lot about what they think of their audience and their craft when their standard response to any questioning or criticism is, "you'll see it anyway, so who cares?" and/or "if you don't love it, then **** you".
It's surprising how unprofessional people can allow themselves to look. :roll:

Probably one of the worst ones to me was when Donnie's actor decided to jump on board the attitude train as well. I don't even recall what he'd said, might have involved the Turtle's designs...but seriously that part doesn't involve him, only thing his 'tude did was make me think a bit less of him, which is unfortunate because the Turtle's actors (and stunt guys) are one team that did great imo and were a highlight of the whole project.

The folks behind the hotly debated designs have themselves come across very professionally in that they seem to have said little to nothing over it, even if it probably sucked for them to hear criticism. Bay & Co could learn from them.


But I digress, this thread is about the script itself.

"Leonardo, if we want to make it home before master we gotta hustle"

This line. So, where is Splinter exactly? Where does a giant humanoid rat even go, for long enough that his Turtle kids have time to sneak out of the house to fight bad guys when they aren't allowed out.

Also... cases of Crush soda, they apparently enjoy Poptarts - or at least Donnie enjoys the icing that probably takes forever to lick off of them - how exactly do they obtain these groceries.

[pennydreadful]

Also... cases of Crush soda, they apparently enjoy Poptarts - or at least Donnie enjoys the icing that probably takes forever to lick off of them - how exactly do they obtain these groceries.

I figured Donnie has them set up with an e-bay account and online ordering systems for food etc. As to how they pay for it... that's another story. :lol:

[IndigoErth]

I figured Donnie has them set up with an e-bay account and online ordering systems for food etc. As to how they pay for it... that's another story. :lol:
Yeeeah...

Credit or debit card? No...need bank account.
Virtual bank? No doubt still need to provide social security number and/or other personally identifying information they lack.
Mailing cash not normally accepted.
And no checks.
Money order a bit hard to get. And if someone like Raph goes around in that disguise cut from the movie the workers will just think he's trying to rob the place and freak out.
Prob no PayPal either unless a bank account isn't required. Amazon Payments site can send money to bank OR turn it into an Amazon "gift card" which could help them at least shop via Amazon, but I don't recall what was required to sign up for that or how widely it can be used to receive money.

Poor things are kinda stuck. No wonder they eat so much pizza... it's not just about it being delicious, it's the ease of it. lol

I suppose if important personal information isn't necessary to give then the advent of virtual currencies would be a godsend for them. (Heck, maybe Donnie invented it.) At the very least... well, I guess meeting April possibly made their lives a lot easier in that department. Address, maybe a joint bank account...

[TrickOrTreater]

This line. So, where is Splinter exactly? Where does a giant humanoid rat even go, for long enough that his Turtle kids have time to sneak out of the house to fight bad guys when they aren't allowed out.

Didn't I hear something about Splinter playing chess with a blind guy, or is that something I'm remembering from other Turtle media?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I think that's something that happens in The Next Mutation.

[LeoRaph]

To be fair about the money thing most if not all TMNT TV series and movies skim over how they get it BUT not to the point where they have state of the art technology and brand spanking shiny new weapons. Oh yeah and eat Shameless specific advertisements like Freakin Pop Tarts Brand New somehow. Just plain DUMB LAZY STUPID writing :trolleye:

I think like in the 1990 movies, 2K3, Nick and the OT it has always worked when their possessions are things they found either in the sewers, on the streets or like Donnie in 2K3 at garbage tips OR even made themselves OR April brings them. AND they are usually NOT state of the art. Seriously, how the hell did Donatello get this technology? You can be a genius sure but you can't invent resources...

With food, speaking not only from Bayurtles but also every other TMNT movie and series, they could steal it quite easily being that they are ninjas and stealing to survive is still honourable. April or Casey can also bring it for them. But how the hell they get their Pizza money I don't know. Maybe they sell second hand stuff in disguise or sell stuff that Donnie restores or some other under the table type work...I guess that one can be suspension of disbelief. But back to Bayurtles, Shiny Intricately Made Weapons, POP Tarts, Military Grade Equipment and State of the Art Technology? No, not buying it.

[Kendamu]

I think we should just rename the TMNT Movie thread into Lets make numerous topics and Bitch about the 2014 movie.:roll:

In a sense, I agree with you. However, there's a lot wrong with this movie. Even the stuff they re-did to make it better feels shoehorned in and doesn't really make it better.

[pennydreadful]

Didn't I hear something about Splinter playing chess with a blind guy, or is that something I'm remembering from other Turtle media?

I think that's something that happens in The Next Mutation.

Yeah, that was Next Mutation.

[TrickOrTreater]

I think that's something that happens in The Next Mutation.

Yeah, that was Next Mutation.

Ahh, I figured.

[Powder]

That's one of the redeeming aspects of the series, conceptually. Man, if only someone could recreate the series as a comic book or something. Most of it is really cool, just not executed properly.

[Commenter 42]

That's one of the redeeming aspects of the series, conceptually. Man, if only someone could recreate the series as a comic book or something. Most of it is really cool, just not executed properly.

I don't want to argue, but really?

I tried to watch a little on netflix recently...it's really hard to sit through.
I think there could be a live action series made today that would be executed better, for sure.

What is in the show that you felt was worth revisiting?

[Powder]

Almost everything, though Venus would be difficult to do right.

Simon Bonesteel, a crazed scumbag who has a passion for hunting/killing/stuffing illegal game, i.e. rare & endangered species (which of course meant he was out for the turtles). That's a character who could work in any turtleverse, really, & if you keep up with the Nick series, you'd see that "The Finger" is pretty much the same dude. Plus there's a similar guy who hunts Leatherhead in the 4kids series.

Dragonlord, a Chinese demigod who infiltrates your mind via the astral plane. Anybody meditating is f*cked. Makes it so that no place is safe, even your own psyche. C'mon, his design is bad-ass. The rank soldiers & Wick, okay, less cool, but the big boss himself is pretty gnarly.

Vam-Mi is kinda goofy but I've always thought traditional Chinese vampires (The ones who jut their arms out like zombies & hop around) would be an interesting kinda villain to explore in the Mirage books. Could totally see them being re-worked for Tales Of The TMNT.

Silver I'll admit I have a bias towards, because I like anybody who's got a mafia influence. Maybe he's not that great, but I like him, & I don't think it'd be a stretch to say he would have fit as an OT villain. A gorilla mobster? Perfect fit.

Dr. Quease is just a mad scientist, which the OT had plenty of. He just wants to slice, dice, & study. Makes him more or less a combination of OT loonies & Bishop. His namesake wouldn't need to return, but the idea of such a character is hardly foreign or lame, IMO.

Splinter having a blind friend to play chess with makes perfect sense. He needs an old wise buddy, someone to connect with. A blind dude would pass no judgement, has sight beyond seeing. That dude whose name I forgot was an amusing character who made Splinter a little bit more human, I felt. Nick gave the turtles a friend to fill that role, Murakami, the blind Japanese chef.

There's an episode where they find Saki is now a homeless man who has more or less lost his mind after getting his ass kicked & clan disbanded. He lives in the streets & has nobody. Splinter thinks back to what his master taught him, about forgiving & redemption & sh*t, so they try to take him in & steer him away from evil. It's a really cool concept, I think. That's easily the best episode of the series, cheesy or not.

Chinese arts, mythology, & combat, are super rad. Why not explore them more in depth? The Mirage books did, here & there.

Another episode has Michelangelo start his own radio show through pirate means, which gives him an outlet to express himself, be goofy, & have the praise/appreciation of humans (which he craves) with the freedom of anonymity, sorta. Nobody knows he's a mutant, anyway.

If done right, I think almost anything from the series could suit the IDW comics. I could go on, if you want.

[Kendamu]

The only difference being that nowadays Mikey could just start a podcast. Haha!

[IndigoErth]

In the process of watching an episode of Next Mutation now and then. I honestly find it kind of amusing, largely because I'm expecting it to be that bad.

[TigerClaw]

The only difference being that nowadays Mikey could just start a podcast. Haha!
Or become a Youtuber if he finds a Webcam.

[Kendamu]

And let everyone see that he's a mutant Turtle?

[IndigoErth]

Or become a Youtuber if he finds a Webcam.
And let everyone see that he's a mutant Turtle?
"Of course it's a costume, dude, it's my gimmick! Wow, how could anyone believe there are actually giant talking turtles?? You need to get out more, dude..."
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f100bRm71qbaj4uo1_500.gif

:P

[TigerClaw]

"Of course it's a costume, dude, it's my gimmick! Wow, how could anyone believe there are actually giant talking turtles?? You need to get out more, dude..."
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f100bRm71qbaj4uo1_500.gif

:P
I could totally see that happen because, You can find a lot of youtube of people in Fursuits.

[Kendamu]

"Of course it's a costume, dude, it's my gimmick! Wow, how could anyone believe there are actually giant talking turtles?? You need to get out more, dude..."
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f100bRm71qbaj4uo1_500.gif

:P

I don't imagine the other Turtles or Splinter allowing that to go on for very long. Unless it's the OT. They voluntarily went on TV in that show.

[TigerClaw]

If Mikey became a Youtuber, He would probably have a million subscribers. lol

[IndigoErth]

I guess it could go either way, to their detriment or benefit. Or both. If they'd be bound to end up outed sooner or later it might be helpful to have an already established group of supporters to defend them.

Mikey would be hilarious on there though, god knows what all he'd carry on about.

[Candy Kappa]

Mikey would probably be on Twitch, so he can be live and interact with people.

[TigerClaw]

Mikey would probably be on Twitch, so he can be live and interact with people.
First he needs access to an Xbox One, PS4 or PC to stream to Twitch, But I don't think Mikey is computer savvy enough, That's Donnie's department.

[Candy Kappa]

That's not a difficult thing to do... I hardly think Mikey is so dumb he needs Donnie to help him with every little thing on a computer or a console.

[pennydreadful]

I guess it could go either way, to their detriment or benefit. Or both. If they'd be bound to end up outed sooner or later it might be helpful to have an already established group of supporters to defend them.

Mikey would be hilarious on there though, god knows what all he'd carry on about.

I would sure as shell tune in to Mikey's Youtube.

His pirate radio show seemed to cover a fair bit of the general 90's stuff - drugs aren't cool, taking calls from people/teen support, be true to yourself, don't trash the environment etc. It'd be interesting to see what he'd talk about now.

[TrickOrTreater]

I would sure as shell tune in to Mikey's Youtube.

His pirate radio show seemed to cover a fair bit of the general 90's stuff - drugs aren't cool, taking calls from people/teen support, be true to yourself, don't trash the environment etc. It'd be interesting to see what he'd talk about now.

Porking April and Hip Hop.

Oh you mean a better version of Mikey.

His bros and pizza and being awesome to each other.

[Candy Kappa]

Porking April and Hip Hop.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/245/d/c/creepy_creepy_mikey_by_candykappa-d7v8jzf.jpg

nopenopenopenope...

[Powder]

Porking April and Hip Hop.

Oh you mean a better version of Mikey.

His bros and pizza and being awesome to each other.

I could see Nick Mikey wanting to recreate those old-time radio adventure shows, maybe with some sort of mutant or martial arts theme.

[pennydreadful]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/245/d/c/creepy_creepy_mikey_by_candykappa-d7v8jzf.jpg

nopenopenopenope...

http://swerrv.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/2gubadd.gif

Kappa, I think you broke me. :tlol:

[Leo656]

:tlol: Oh, Lawd...

[Bry]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/245/d/c/creepy_creepy_mikey_by_candykappa-d7v8jzf.jpg

nopenopenopenope...

*screams forever*

And... "m'lady"? Oh no, Mikey's a Nice Guy creeper now :tsad:

[TurtleTitan97]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/245/d/c/creepy_creepy_mikey_by_candykappa-d7v8jzf.jpg

nopenopenopenope...

KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!! :o

[Candy Kappa]

*screams forever*

And... "m'lady"? Oh no, Mikey's a Nice Guy creeper now :tsad:

Well... That was essentially the vibe I got from Mikey in the movie, which sadly tarred the genuine good moments he did have.

[Bry]

Well... That was essentially the vibe I got from Mikey in the movie, which sadly tarred the genuine good moments he did have.

Yep. Noel Fisher was otherwise one of the very, very rare bright spots in this movie, but that part of the writing made him pretty unlikable. Even when someone was actually trying to get something right, the rest of this freakin' movie just wouldn't let it happen.

[Candy Kappa]

Yeah, with better written lines. Noel would have been an excellent Mikey.

He even took nunchaku lessons, and Mikey in the movie barely uses them... such a wasted oppertunity.

[IndigoErth]

http://whatculture.com/film/13-reasons-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-stupidest-2014-movie.php

Defensive sorts might be touchy about the title, but there are some really good points there - some already brought up, some not - and personally some of it gave me a laugh. Thank you for the chuckle, guy who wrote that up.

[Leo656]

Great article. Could have easily been 50 or more reasons, but if they had to whittle it down to 13, they went with some good ones.

Remember kids: If someone ever drains your body completely of every drop of blood, just have someone give you some adrenaline. That will totally override the "not having any blood in your veins" thing. Also, if you're ever in a fight and your opponent is wearing a set of invincible super armor that makes it impossible to even lay a finger on him, just make sure you do a couple leapfroggy thingies before you attack him. That's the Cheat Code. :roll:

[CJRocky]

I just...I don't even know where to start.

Not a thing made sense in this movie.

They were either sh*tting on the Turtles or they were sh*tting on filmmaking as a whole.

this is the best quote ive ever read. its so true!

[Commenter 42]

Great article. Could have easily been 50 or more reasons, but if they had to whittle it down to 13, they went with some good ones.

Remember kids: If someone ever drains your body completely of every drop of blood, just have someone give you some adrenaline. That will totally override the "not having any blood in your veins" thing. Also, if you're ever in a fight and your opponent is wearing a set of invincible super armor that makes it impossible to even lay a finger on him, just make sure you do a couple leapfroggy thingies before you attack him. That's the Cheat Code. :roll:

Wait, when did you see it? I thought you were holding out!

[Candy Kappa]

http://whatculture.com/film/13-reasons-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-stupidest-2014-movie.php

Defensive sorts might be touchy about the title, but there are some really good points there - some already brought up, some not - and personally some of it gave me a laugh. Thank you for the chuckle, guy who wrote that up.

number 8. actually makes sense. Arnett would have been much better as a voice actor then doing the oddly out of character Vernon.

and number 7. I'm pretty sure Raph had duct tape on his shell prior being cracked in-story, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'd have to watch the movie again to confirm it... *shudder*

[Bry]

http://whatculture.com/film/13-reasons-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-stupidest-2014-movie.php

Defensive sorts might be touchy about the title, but there are some really good points there - some already brought up, some not - and personally some of it gave me a laugh. Thank you for the chuckle, guy who wrote that up.

Love this! And an "Everything Wrong With" video has to be coming next month, right? It's way too easy to pick this movie completely apart.

and number 7. I'm pretty sure Raph had duct tape on his shell prior being cracked in-story, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'd have to watch the movie again to confirm it... *shudder*

I don't remember exactly - I know he asked to be patched up before he immediately did his high-speed shell-slam into an armoured vehicle -- which was apparently done with actual magic, considering that he didn't die horribly from this in addition to his previous injury, but also seemed just completely a-okay for the rest of the movie.

[jenna]

and number 7. I'm pretty sure Raph had duct tape on his shell prior being cracked in-story, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'd have to watch the movie again to confirm it... *shudder*

Indeed he did. Seems he is rather accident prone. Good thing duct tape can mend anything. ;)

[Galactus]

The writing was terrible.

While many (not all) of the logic holes both big and small could be put down to the numerous rewrites there didn't seem to be any sense that anyone was editing the script. A lot of them could have been easily avoided. Of the top of my head...

1. We know for example that in earlier iterations that were filmed the turtles were to some degree outed and put forward as heroes by April's news broadcasts ala the Fred Wolf show. However this was changed to them remaining secret (a good call imo as I don't think the turtles as full on super heroes works in a continuity which is supposed to be even semi serious)

However there's still clear remnants that's what was going to happen. April filming the snow chase saying something "they're heroes, the world needs to see this" or something to that affect. Would it have been hard to edit that out or dub in another line?

The tacked on scene with the turtles meeting April and Vern in their clown car makes a big deal that April didn't go public with knowledge of the turtles existence but did she even have the capacity to do that, did she even get her job back?


2. Speaking of which another logic hole that could have easily been avoided was that even after the Donatello wipes the memory on April's phone she gets a good shot of the turtles leaping away. Not only does this make the turtles look rather poor ninjas but April extremely stupid because literally the next scene is her at Channel 6 trying to convince her boss of the turtles existence and brings out everything but the actual proof in the photo we just saw her take.

3. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread it seems that Splinter didn't approve of turtles vigilante-ing so have to sneak out when he's not around. Where exactly does he go? Does he have a office job?

Isn't it said in that Splinter trained the turtles specifically to fight crime/the Foot? If not then it seems then he's a lousy father as it looks the turtles are regularly fighting the Foot also the turtles have a huge surveillance network in NYC that Splinter must not know about.

All the various cameras in the sewers while not a huge logic hole in itself seems like complete overkill. How advanced are the turtles? Wouldn't it have been better for the turtles to see a news report that the Foot had taken hostages and were calling the vigilante?

4. On the flip side we know how advanced the Foot are but how dumb are they. Putting aside them leaving Splinter and Raphael behind wouldn't they strip the three captured turtles of their gear? A big emphasis is put on the Foot using tracking devices but they can't pick up a homing signal from Donatello or even take the precaution of turning off or destroying Don's gear. Then again Sack's was so courteous he let Don keep his glasses on while trying to kill him.

5. Also the over reliance of the audiences familiarity with the story and characters that they don't have do the leg work of building it up works against them when it comes to the concepts which are now changed like the Foot. All the while I couldn't help think "some secret ninja group they are if the whole city knows about them" forgetting in this version they aren't acting in secret or even ninjas. A further problem is that Shredder seems to act like the Foot are a in danger of becoming a myth despite the fact that they have a complete strange hold on the city.

The characterisation was all over the place. I know a lot of people think the turtles themselves were nailed down well but I'd disagree in a few aspects they were poorly written. Wouldn't Raphael be angry at April for accidentally revealing their location. Wouldn't he be wary of trusting someone he doesn't know?

Similarly wouldn't April be wary of trusting the turtles. I actually thought it made sense for the turtles to take a hard line with a human seeing them but from April's perspective these six foot tall hulking monsters have treated her rough and threatened her life. Why on earth would she side with them over her father's kindly friend.

Of course it's supposed to go back to the whole bond they share from April's pets that she saved and the flushed down the sewer rather than help her father hence why they regard each other as family in the end despite barely knowing each other but it's lazy and doesn't come off as a solid foundation.

I could go on with this but seriously this a horrible piece of cinema.

[IndigoErth]

and number 7. I'm pretty sure Raph had duct tape on his shell prior being cracked in-story, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'd have to watch the movie again to confirm it... *shudder*
Yeah, pretty sure he does prior to then, I think all or at least most of them do. Leo's got a little on him I think the entire time. Guessing that duct tape is just their makeshift shell Band Aids where regular bandages won't stick and aren't big enough.


Personal fave points from that list that I had not caught onto yet...
because he very obviously makes a sandwich only containing mustard and salt... makes Fenwick look like some sort of high-functioning psychopath.
But, as well as being a 90 year old ninja wizard with a ridiculous physique for someone so close to the grave, Shredder apparently has that same gene as Bruce Wayne that helps people teleport places really quick without ever having to explain it.
Don't even recall if I noticed these things in the movie, maybe not (it's so obvious now! lol), but put like that... hilarious. :lol:

[Candy Kappa]

Yeah... Who knew a huge snow mountain was right next to New York City.

Although, I guess the suit makes a little more sense with a 80+ year old Shredder.

[Bry]

Yeah... Who knew a huge snow mountain was right next to New York City.

And so close that it has an access point that directly connects with the NYC sewer system.

This freakin' movie. :tlol:

[Galactus]

And so close that it has an access point that directly connects with the NYC sewer system.

This freakin' movie. :tlol:

Not just the NYC sewer system but also directly to a tunnel directly endng at the parking garage of Eric Sack's building.

[jenna]

http://whatculture.com/film/13-reasons-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-stupidest-2014-movie.php

Defensive sorts might be touchy about the title, but there are some really good points there - some already brought up, some not - and personally some of it gave me a laugh. Thank you for the chuckle, guy who wrote that up.

Great article. Never tried to work out Shredder's age so that one was hilarious!! The omniscient Splinter is one that stuck out for me whilst watching. The major one was Raphael's broken shell. Not only did the writers miss a trick there for some high-stakes plot advancement (dealing with a genuine injury), but many audience members didn't realise that his shell had miraculously healed, duct tape or no. You could hear the audience audibly hiss in concern when he slammed into that truck.

Great article. Laughed a lot while reading it on a train full of commuters. Got some strange looks.

[Candy Kappa]

They really should have put the "cracked shell" moment after the humvee scene.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

And then there’s the frankly irresponsible suggestion that turtles are bullet-proof, which is presumably going to lead to a lot of little backyard graves and a lot of sad children in countries where guns aren’t regulated so well. Imagine believing your beloved pet has a natural super-power; you’d want to test it out, and the result would definitely, definitely not be that your turtles was bullet-proof. Or alive anymore.

This made me laugh so hard.

[IndigoErth]

They really should have put the "cracked shell" moment after the humvee scene.
Agree. But then there's the question of how he manages to get back into the trailer of a semi that's wildly barreling down a mountain. Can't win with this writing.


Still bugs me that the 'no, my shell is cracked' bit is kind of related to helping Leo who is... oh, I dunno, unconscious? But the truck? Sure, I can hit that. A touching moment of unintentional brotherly apathy right there.

[Candy Kappa]

"Oh, no.... I can't help Leo cause... I got a splinter in my thumb, yeah. Totally."

[d_osborn]

Have any shooting drafts of the script leaked out yet?

[LeoRaph]

That ain't gonna happen...then the mystery of the 2 Shredders and EVERY other moronic thing that went into the script which can blamed on editing will be revealed, not to mention simply having tangible evidence of their plain IDIOCY...although the movie does a great job of that too :twink:

Besides, they're way way way too lazy to write a new one covering their tracks...As far as I'm concerned that 'thing' is in the 9th circle of Hell.

[TrickOrTreater]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/245/d/c/creepy_creepy_mikey_by_candykappa-d7v8jzf.jpg

nopenopenopenope...

http://i.imgur.com/FGNobkm.gif?1

[Leolead]

http://i.imgur.com/FGNobkm.gif?1
Hey! Tricks! good to see ya..... :(

[TrickOrTreater]

Hey! Tricks! good to see ya..... :(

And I'm here for the long haul too, so cowboy up!

[B-Man]

"cowboy up".

Dudes trying to sound cool everyone, incase you missed it.

[TrickOrTreater]

"cowboy up".

Dudes trying to sound cool everyone, incase you missed it.

Still haven't gotten an answer to my question, photoshop guy!

[B-Man]

What question?

[TrickOrTreater]

What question?

If, in your opinion that "movies rarely stick to the race of their cartoon/comic counterparts anymore & seriously who cares" and "The only concern is the end result", would you be okay with a white Black Panther?

I look forward to this answer with great delight.

[B-Man]

Hahaha I already said no.

[TrickOrTreater]

Hahaha I already said no.

Hahaha no you didn't.

"So you'd be totally fine with a white Black Panther."

hahaha now it's getting silly. Get over it, fellas.

Come on man. You're not even trying.

[B-Man]

I said no & brought up your trolling. You then said you weren't trolling, you were dead serious. I left it cause I thought you were gonna keep going.

One week later, you are.

Yikes.

[TrickOrTreater]

I said no & brought up your trolling. You then said you weren't trolling, you were dead serious. I left it cause I thought you were gonna keep going.

One week later, you are.

Yikes.

Oh come on, "yikes?" He's trying to be cool, guys.

I can tell you're gonna be fun.

[B-Man]

I can tell you're gonna be fun.

Thank you :) also, when you post, I always imagine you look like this:

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/benman011/comic-book-guy.jpg

Just being honest.

[TrickOrTreater]

Thank you :) also, when you post, I always imagine you look like this:

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/benman011/comic-book-guy.jpg

Just being honest.

Well I mean I WOULD post pictures of myself ridiculously photoshopped out like I was a high schooler with access to a computer lab but...nah.

[B-Man]

Hahaha my avatars not that hardcore. Fake swords & filter. However, there are some people here that like photoshopping & are good at it, are you having a go at them too? Cause that's just mean.

[TrickOrTreater]

Hahaha my avatars not that hardcore. Fake swords & filter. However, there are some people here that like photoshopping & are good at it, are you having a go at them too? Cause that's just mean.

...no I believe I'm specifically addressing you.

Not all that sure how you managed the leap from this to what you just posted but you definitely managed it.

Oh and hahaha.

[Splint'r]

Okay.... Come on guys. Shake it off.

In regards to Black Panther... I see people throughout other similar debates always using Black Panther and Power Man as chips to prove a point but it doesn't really hold for one main reason. There was a point to their being characters of African decent in the realm of typical Caucasian super heroes.

To change their ethnicity around would be to completely eliminate why they were created in the first place... Unlike characters like The Kingpin who was turned African American in the Daredevil film or Nick Fury in the Avengers film who received the same treatment. In these cases, the changes weren't all that damaging at all to these character's. Turning Black Panther or even Power Man into a Caucasian or anything other than of African decent, would be quite blasphemous for obvious reasons (if you understand the history behind their creation).

Some things can ultimately be given that flexibility while others can't or rather, shouldn't. I used to be more rigid about change. But at this point, considering I don't own any of these characters... all I can do is either accept the change or reject it and move on.
The question here is, which of these creations have that flexibility and why or why not?

Things get changed around a lot to help tell a better story or out of sheer convenience. You can have your final opinion on that.

[TrickOrTreater]

Okay.... Come on guys. Shake it off.

In regards to Black Panther... I see people throughout other similar debates always using Black Panther and Power Man as chips to prove a point but it doesn't really hold for one main reason guys. There was a point to their being characters of African decent in the realm of typical Caucasian super heroes.

To change their ethnicity around would be to completely eliminate why they were created in the first place... Unlike characters like The Kingpin who was turned African American in the Daredevil film or Nick Fury in the Avengers film who received the same treatment. In these cases, the changes weren't all that damaging at all to these character's. Turning Black Panther into a Caucasian or anything other than of African decent, would be quite blasphemous for obvious reasons (if you understand the history behind their creation).

Some things can ultimately be given that flexibility while others can't. I used to be more rigid about change. But at this point, considering I don't own any of these characters... all I can do is either accept the change or reject it and move on.
The question here is, which of these creations have that flexibility and why or why not?

Things get changed around a lot to help tell a better story or out of sheer convenience. You can have your final opinion on that.

Yes this was my original point.

It's more okay for a previously white character to be adapted as not white than it is for a POC character to be adapted as white.

[B-Man]

Splint'r you couldn't have put it better. I'm glad you're on this board.

[Coola Yagami]

Nick Fury was black in the comics.... the Ultimate Marvel comics... but still... the comics... and he was purposely based on Sam L Jackson, so who better to actually play the role in a live-action movie.... just sayin'.

[Splint'r]

Thanks B-Man.

Coola, I'm not sure of the point you're making but your information is correct in regards to the much later Ultimate's comics. However, the original Nick Fury, which was created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee in '63, was indeed a Caucasian character and remained so until 2002, when he was then changed to the Samuel Jackson likeness for obvious purposes... (film).

I think there were people who were cringing and jumping the gun about it back then but it quickly died off once everyone got to see the performance of the actual actor on screen. So, the old original Nick Fury (a character that was pretty much floundering in the world of comics) was erased for the much more interesting character based on Sam's notable take on many characters he's played on film (Pulp Fiction, etc etc).
Not sure if you're telling us that Nick Fury started out as an African American character. Your post seemed a little ambiguous. ;)


Anyways, I'm sorry to have further strayed from the topic. Not sure how any of this has anything to do with the TMNT movie script, which I concur...wasn't fit for many adult fans out there.

[Coola Yagami]

I was just referring to how people always bring up nick fury as an example when it's a bad one because he was based on what it actually shown in the (ultimate) comics.

Btw the classic fury is still around. He's responsible for Thor losing his hammer and having this new female Thor take up the mantle.

[Splint'r]

Btw the classic fury is still around. He's responsible for Thor losing his hammer and having this new female Thor take up the mantle.

Are you serious? lol Man, Marvel just keeps hopping around. I've had problems keeping up with their continuity (or lack of).
Good point though.

[Coola Yagami]

Are you serious? lol Man, Marvel just keeps hopping around. I've had problems keeping up with their continuity (or lack of).
Good point though.

Dead serious. From what I understand white fury gained the powers of the watcher and during the battle against him he whispered something unknown into Thor's ear that suddenly made him lose the ability to use his hammer.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Coola, I'm not sure of the point you're making but your information is correct in regards to the much later Ultimate's comics. However, the original Nick Fury, which was created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee in '63, was indeed a Caucasian character and remained so until 2002, when he was then changed to the Samuel Jackson likeness for obvious purposes... (film).



Not true. Nick fury was still white in the 616 Universe, even as late as 2006-7, post-Secret Invasion/Dark Reign. The MAIN MU Fury has NEVER been the Jackson-based black version. That is still strictly in the Ultimates universe. However, there was a short period where he used a holographic imager to APPEAR different, taking the Ultimates persona as a disguise. But he was NOT actually changed to the African-American version. It was simply a holographic disguised that was used VERY briefly.

[Galactus]

Are you serious? lol Man, Marvel just keeps hopping around. I've had problems keeping up with their continuity (or lack of).
Good point though.

Yup. It was the subject of their last "event" which was basically a send off to the classic Nick Fury.

Prior he'd retired and had the Infinity Formula taken out of him so he was going to age at a normal rate. I thought that was a more respectful send off for him than turning him into a very reluctant Watcher.

[Splint'r]

Not true. Nick fury was still white in the 616 Universe, even as late as 2006-7, post-Secret Invasion/Dark Reign. The MAIN MU Fury has NEVER been the Jackson-based black version. That is still strictly in the Ultimates universe. However, there was a short period where he used a holographic imager to APPEAR different, taking the Ultimates persona as a disguise. But he was NOT actually changed to the African-American version. It was simply a holographic disguised that was used VERY briefly.

LOL.... Oh gawd...

That all sounds like a desperate attempt to keep every Marvel fan in the world happy. This is exactly why I lost interest in Marvel. You'd have to keep up with so many arcs and alternate universes to understand the changes throughout their books and then digest the scrambled continuity. Definitely not for me. Thanks for the info though.

It still makes a valid point in terms of decisions to fool around with gender, ethnicity, or any other type of characteristics in order to either tell a better story or out of sheer convenience for specific matters. And that's really the only point I was making in my initial post in regards to change.
All this universe stuff... Whatever. lol.

I can understand that creating these changes in alternate universes is a convenient way to test the waters out before deciding to prolong or emphasize these changes for the wider audiences (who don't follow or care to understand alternate universes, much like myself).
I really like Sam as NF.

[Splint'r]

Yup. It was the subject of their last "event" which was basically a send off to the classic Nick Fury.

Prior he'd retired and had the Infinity Formula taken out of him so he was going to age at a normal rate. I thought that was a more respectful send off for him than turning him into a very reluctant Watcher.

I see...
I'm impressed you guys can follow the continuity so well. I'm sure they're not without their share of plot holes.

[Candy Kappa]

The good thing about Movie Universe Fury, is that his personality is more akin to 616 Fury then the Ultimate Fury.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I dunno, I thought David Hasselhofff's take was much closer to the 616 Fury than Jackson was, cigar chomping and all. The scary thing was that he actually LOOKED like him, too. Yes, there was actually a Nick Fury movie, starring David Hasselhoff. The movie was a stinker, too, but not because of David. HE was spot on. The REST of the movie sucked, though.

[Candy Kappa]

The Hasslhoffmmovie is amazing, seen it several times. But my point wasn't which film Fury was better, just that Movieverse Fury, despite being played by Samuel Jackson, who's looks inspired Fury in the Ultimate comics, they didn't bring over the characterization of Ultimate Fury, who is (like most of the Characters in Ult. Comics) a horrible, terrible person.

But most character was brooding emo bastards in Ultimate, a universe Captain America was completely fine by the plan of shooting children because they are Mutants.

[Leolead]

If, in your opinion that "movies rarely stick to the race of their cartoon/comic counterparts anymore & seriously who cares" and "The only concern is the end result", would you be okay with a white Black Panther?

I look forward to this answer with great delight.
Dude... Black Panther's race is actually part of his character.

[Powder]

Dude... Black Panther's race is actually part of his character.

Dude... That's his f*cking point.

[newhire13]

number 8. actually makes sense. Arnett would have been much better as a voice actor then doing the oddly out of character Vernon.

and number 7. I'm pretty sure Raph had duct tape on his shell prior being cracked in-story, I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'd have to watch the movie again to confirm it... *shudder*

In defense of one thing, the sandwich thing is actually a reference to his character in Arrested Development. Just a fun little wink to fans who catch it.

Overall though a lot of those holes are obviously because they changed the movie up from their original plan after all the backlash. I think they honestly would have been better off ignoring everyone and just doing what they planned on doing in the first place.

[TrickOrTreater]

Dude... Black Panther's race is actually part of his character.

Yeah, no sh*t.

[Coola Yagami]

In defense of one thing, the sandwich thing is actually a reference to his character in Arrested Development. Just a fun little wink to fans who catch it.

Overall though a lot of those holes are obviously because they changed the movie up from their original plan after all the backlash. I think they honestly would have been better off ignoring everyone and just doing what they planned on doing in the first place.

And then completely and utterly bomb.

[newhire13]

And then completely and utterly bomb.

I doubt either way it would have bombed. People **** all over this version anyways. At least if they stuck to their plan instead of shuffling things around things would have probably made more sense and it would have felt less like they were backtracking out of fear.

[Coola Yagami]

I doubt either way it would have bombed. People **** all over this version anyways. At least if they stuck to their plan instead of shuffling things around things would have probably made more sense and it would have felt less like they were backtracking out of fear.

With shredder-Sachs and alien turtles? Naw.

[IndigoErth]

I didn't think there were really all that many things they ran off and changed? There seems to be more that's a bit off or just not well thought out than what was directly associated with changes made to it...

[TrickOrTreater]

I doubt either way it would have bombed. People **** all over this version anyways. At least if they stuck to their plan instead of shuffling things around things would have probably made more sense and it would have felt less like they were backtracking out of fear.

Other than tacking on Bald Japanese Guy(not calling him Oroku Saki because the movie didn't bother to either), not much would have been different.

Not to mention that adding a few reshoot scenes was the least of this movie's problems.

Can't reshoot bad dialogue and acting and effects.

[Coola Yagami]

Other than tacking on Bald Japanese Guy(not calling him Oroku Saki because the movie didn't bother to either), not much would have been different.

Not to mention that adding a few reshoot scenes was the least of this movie's problems.

Can't reshoot bad dialogue and acting and effects.

Exactly, the lack of any heart or effort has nothing to with the plot holes and Sachs. Making Sachs wouldn't have improved any of that, it only would have made it worse because well.... that's just wrong in the first place.

[Leo656]

Yeah, like, it's just, "Are the Bad Ideas they DIDN'T use any better than the Bad Ideas they DID?"

It's kind of pointless to argue whether they were better off building their House out of twigs or straw. The important thing is that they made the odd choice to completely disregard any Bricks from the equation in the first place.

[IndigoErth]

Generous... :twink: Bricks are for people who want a solid foundation! Some of these folks just wanted to tear it up. :\


(Edit: ...or mud. Tried to use dirt and "people complained" so they took a hose to it to make "improvements." Heh.)

[newhire13]

With shredder-Sachs and alien turtles? Naw.
You're talking old stuff. The alien turtles stuff was scrapped pretty early on. I'm talking about the version that storyboards were recently released of. The ones where we see Splinter being experimented on with mutagen and his ninjas skills being hardwired into his mind. There is a whole other movie they had in mind before giving into pressure.

[newhire13]

Other than tacking on Bald Japanese Guy(not calling him Oroku Saki because the movie didn't bother to either), not much would have been different.

Not to mention that adding a few reshoot scenes was the least of this movie's problems.

Can't reshoot bad dialogue and acting and effects.

Right off the bat the origins and character motivations would have been different. I think evidence supports the fact that they originally shot a different film.

And of course you can reshoot dialogue, acting and effects. In fact, they did!

[IndigoErth]

I'm talking about the version that storyboards were recently released of. The ones where we see Splinter being experimented on with mutagen and his ninjas skills being hardwired into his mind. There is a whole other movie they had in mind before giving into pressure.
Personally I haven't regarded that as anything that was changed because of fans, we knew very little of the supposed lab-related origin. That comes across to me more as the film makers possibly just choosing to cut that bit and simplify that part themselves.

I recall there was something that mentioned some kind of visual training or something where Splinter was concerned, racking my brain trying to remember what it was from, may have been a description on something, but I know it was very late in the game when that tidbit even turned up.

But yeah, sometimes changes are also a film makers own choices, they certainly cut stuff on their own that fans wish we'd have seen (i.e. Raph in disguise scene). And sometimes something might work better in writing and less so in actual production. Trying to find the preview portion of the movie novelization book I saw a couple days ago via Google Books. (Found one but doesn't include the same bits I read in it.) Included a portion of the snow scene, some of which was noticeably different than what the film actually went with. Either things got changed in production or the book doesn't stick to the script enough.

[newhire13]

In the storyboards that were released you see them pulling a Matrix and more or less downloading ninjas into his mind which lined up with a description that got released earlier in the year about Splinter being a Foot lab experiment taught ninja in order to create super soldiers or something along those lines (the turtles were obviously the next step in that experiment which instantly explained why the hell they were even experimenting on them in the first place). I'm pretty confident that post is somewhere on this forum because that's where I read it. Even more so it makes the scroll with the turtle like creatures and that animated marketing video and the teaser trailer with Sachs saying they were trying to create heroes make sense. I really think that what was released in theaters was a pasted together compromise and not the movie they originally made.

[Candy Kappa]

Yeah, we have a thread about the storyboard where Splinter is watching martial arts While being wired up.


http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=49286

[TrickOrTreater]

You're talking old stuff. The alien turtles stuff was scrapped pretty early on. I'm talking about the version that storyboards were recently released of. The ones where we see Splinter being experimented on with mutagen and his ninjas skills being hardwired into his mind. There is a whole other movie they had in mind before giving into pressure.

Right off the bat the origins and character motivations would have been different. I think evidence supports the fact that they originally shot a different film.

Yeah...I'm pretty sure the only thing we're aware that they reshot is the tacked on Bald Asian Guy.

And even if all that other Splinter/Turtle stuff is true...that doesn't make THAT good or even the, still very much present, awful acting, dialogue, story, and effects better. Those are still awful no matter what story they shot or didn't shoot.

Simply put, it just would have been a different bad movie instead of the bad movie we got.

[TrickOrTreater]

Yeah, we have a thread about the storyboard where Splinter is watching martial arts While being wired up.


http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=49286

...

I was not aware of this.

...

THIS IS EQUALLY AS DUMB AS LEARNING IT FROM A F*CKING BOOK.

Dear god these people behind this movie could have given a sh*t less about the sources, literally the only reason they're even making the goddamn movie in the first place, from the get go.

This movie was doomed to suck at the very beginning.

[newhire13]

Yeah...I'm pretty sure the only thing we're aware that they reshot is the tacked on Bald Asian Guy.

And even if all that other Splinter/Turtle stuff is true...that doesn't make THAT good or even the, still very much present, awful acting, dialogue, story, and effects better. Those are still awful no matter what story they shot or didn't shoot.

Simply put, it just would have been a different bad movie instead of the bad movie we got.

At the end of the day whether you liked it or not depends on nothing more but preference (and obviously different scenes, dialogue, beats etc would have been used for at least some of the scenes since it would have gone right instead of left) but the fact remains that going by this, the trailers, and the other info that's been revealed, there was a different story that they originally were going to tell and it could have easily been better and felt less like it was cobbled together as this version did.

[newhire13]

Yeah, we have a thread about the storyboard where Splinter is watching martial arts While being wired up.


http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=49286

I think that's a pretty interesting angle, obviously inspired in part by the IDW comics. Instead of an accident they were weapons designed for a purpose that eventually would have rebelled against that singular purpose and become something more. Far more personal than what ultimately ended up in the movie and could have brought up some interesting nature vs nurture dynamics considering they were being designed specifically to be weapons for the bad guys of all things. I love the classic story but personally I'm completely fine with them trying something new as long as its interesting, works within the context of the story they are telling, and still feels like a TMNT story. I just tend to be open minded about this stuff. If they try it and it works, awesome! If they try it and it doesn't then they dropped the ball.

[TurtleTitan97]

but the fact remains that going by this, the trailers, and the other info that's been revealed, there was a different story that they originally were going to tell and it could have easily been better and felt less like it was cobbled together as this version did.

That's somewhat debatable, in my opinion, but to each their own.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, we have a thread about the storyboard where Splinter is watching martial arts While being wired up.


http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=49286
Yeah, no storyboard until a month after premiere then.

And finally figured out and found what the original hint of it was I was racking my mind over... Lego description posted in July. http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=48087

Not much room to blame that cut Splinter concept on fans.

[TrickOrTreater]

Yeah, no storyboard until a month after premiere then.

And finally figured out and found what the original hint of it was I was racking my mind over... Lego description posted in July. http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=48087

Not much room to blame that cut Splinter concept on fans.

Like I said, it was going to be bad no matter what. Either from a film stand point or a Ninja Turtles lore stand point.

[Coola Yagami]

You're talking old stuff. The alien turtles stuff was scrapped pretty early on. I'm talking about the version that storyboards were recently released of. The ones where we see Splinter being experimented on with mutagen and his ninjas skills being hardwired into his mind. There is a whole other movie they had in mind before giving into pressure.

true, but the alien turtles and general shroeder was their first original vision. That's what they were going with before the fan backlash. People saying they should have ignored the fans and just 'stuck with their guns' would have ended up with THIS version, because if they have 'stuck to their guns' they would have ignored the fan backlash and keep on going with the alien turtles.

[Galactus]

You're talking old stuff. The alien turtles stuff was scrapped pretty early on. I'm talking about the version that storyboards were recently released of. The ones where we see Splinter being experimented on with mutagen and his ninjas skills being hardwired into his mind. There is a whole other movie they had in mind before giving into pressure.

I'm not so sure we can claim these ideas were scrapped early on in the production. When the Blue Door script leaked Michael Bay claimed that was a script that "saw the shredder a long time ago" however Leibesman didn't know what to say about it and pretty much hummed and hawed his way through questions of what the script was and whether the turtles would be aliens in the finished product or not.

Wasn't the movie gearing up to actually shoot when Paramount halted production, slashed the budget and ordered the script be reworked?

To some estimations that could be described as "early" but it still fairly late in the game certainly too late to do anything but haphazardly rework that script - y'know the one that Bay said was ditched a long time prior to that. ;)

I'd also point out that in the section of the Paramount panel at comic con Leibesman and co seemed completely defensive on the question of the turtles as aliens. Normally when these kinds of questions come up at these panels creators generally take it on the chin and usually admit it was a bad idea and after a crown pleasing response they move on not try and justify their bad idea. I'd argue it's pretty obvious that everyone at Platinum Dunes thought that Blue Door script was a masterpiece and resented having to change it.

I think that's a pretty interesting angle, obviously inspired in part by the IDW comics. Instead of an accident they were weapons designed for a purpose that eventually would have rebelled against that singular purpose and become something more. Far more personal than what ultimately ended up in the movie and could have brought up some interesting nature vs nurture dynamics considering they were being designed specifically to be weapons for the bad guys of all things. I love the classic story but personally I'm completely fine with them trying something new as long as its interesting, works within the context of the story they are telling, and still feels like a TMNT story. I just tend to be open minded about this stuff. If they try it and it works, awesome! If they try it and it doesn't then they dropped the ball.

Obviously inspired by the IDW comics?

People have claimed the movie we got was based on the IDW comics but I think we can all appreciate that's a long stretch. All based on the fact that the turtles were developed in a lab but given that we know for a fact several pitches have been made over the years using variations on that idea I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that it may be that particular detail linking up with the IDW series to be a coincidence.

Not to mention there's been a growing number of people involved in the movie that give interviews saying they didn't do any research beyond looking at still images. Thus even if they skimmed through a collected edition of the IDW book at images of the turtles in a lab stuck in their minds I suppose that technically means it was inspired by it but certainly in the vaguest, loosest way.

I also think you're viewing the other origin that they shot through rose tinted spectacles. While I do think having ninjitsu knowledge downloaded into Splinter's brain is better than him learning it from a single book and has a lot of potential to be dramatic and touch on a lot interesting themes I don't think it was ever their intention to do more than just a modern fanboy kewl origin.

After all we were promised several things when the movie was as-good-as finished that we never got. Deeper story, characters not being one note, the theme of the turtles being alienated from the surface world (that was a big one that kept being brought up) and the promise of action sequences reminiscent of the Raid movies and it all added up to diddly squat in the end. Where these ever intended? I'd like to think so but again I can't help but think back to the aforementioned comic con where Leibesman just seemed to give up and say something like "it's turtles, it's stupid"/ :(

Even the idea that they changed their "better" plans due to fan reaction doesn't make sense to me. Sure there was skepticism about the whole "create heroes miss O'Neil" think but they essentially replaced it with something along the same lines. If it really was changed to please the fans then it seems they didn't really understand what fans where upset in the first place.

Same with the the inclusion of an Oroku Saki-like character. They gave us the character but didn't include the reasons why we really wanted Oroku Saki in the first place. I'm be willing to bet the former was changed due to their own lack of faith in what they were doing and I've often wondered if the latter was less to do with fans but more the idea than anyone can be Shredder when they wear the armor was seen by Paramount as stupid when they saw Will Fichtner trying to be a ninja master.

[Leo656]

You. You're good, You.