Darker aspects of TMNT

[neatoman]

So while I have stated that I don't consider the "Grim and Gritty" Mirage comics to really live up to that reputation, I do certainly see darker aspects in TMNT. Tonally and storywise it's rarely very dark, but visually and thematically it can be dark.

Revenge, violence, black magic, mutalation etc, even stuff like that isn't always dark to the core, on the surface level it will still seem dark. And even if I don't consider any TMNT incarnation to be dark as whole (the ones I've experienced at least), the darker elements is what draws me to it, maybe because it's more sophiticated and unexpected from something called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" than something like "Cowabunga Pizza Time Dude!".

So does the dark stuff draw you in or alienate you?

[snake]

It can draw me in. Too much dark is trying too hard to be edgy, and sometimes OT style camp is fun. The Nick show has a nice balance as well as (sometimes) 2k3.

[Luckyday]

It what got into the series in the first place. Have I never read that cracked.com article, I would have kept on thinking that it was yet another funny talking animal show for kids. I was too young to appreciate the first and the second one didn't really impress me or I guess I didn't have time to watch it. Anyway, years later when I was reading an article titled "Disturbed origins of cartoon character", I saw a section of Teenage Mutant Ninja, and I was like

https://www.americarisingpac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/colbert-jaw-drop.gif
"The turtles force Shredder commit seppuku. Holy ****"

After that, I went around web to find anything TMNT mirage related and I was to get hold of the first five issues and well the rest is history.

At least that how I think it had happened.

[Powder]

The dark themes of depression & isolation, among other things, is a big part of what makes Mirage my favorite iteration. The world is screwed & they know it.

"Life at best is bittersweet"

[snake]

The dark themes of depression & isolation, among other things, is a big part of what makes Mirage my favorite iteration. The world is screwed & they know it.

"Life at best is bittersweet"

Love stuff like that. Actual dark themes instead of blood and guts.

[TurtleTitan97]

I'd definitely say I enjoy the darker aspects of TMNT.

[Coola Yagami]

The dark themes of depression & isolation, among other things, is a big part of what makes Mirage my favorite iteration. The world is screwed & they know it.

"Life at best is bittersweet"

That's right. Most people that consider the comics too dark and gritty due to the blood and such don't know how comics work in comparison to the cartoons on tv based on the same characters. We see Deadpool get cut and such and regenerate in cartoons, but in the comics he gets as far as his guts spilled all over the place blood and all, and regenerates. They have Wolverine drink bottled water and never draw blood in the cartoons, while in the comics (before he died) he would drink beer, sleep around and hack and slash people to bloody bits. The Joker in cartoons will never do the stuff he did in the comics. And just see how tame Professor Pyg was in the cartoon when compared to the one in the comics.

The real darkness lies in the depressing themes and the horrible futures the turtles are going to have. Like the one with Raph and Shadow. Then we have issues where the Foot threaten to kill the family of one of their own if they fail to kill the turtles.... and the turtles win so...... And then there's one where Raph and a Foot Ninja have a drink and avoid being captured by aliens.... and then proceed to go back to their day-to-day without a thought on trying to rescue the victims that didn't get away because, hey, it's not their problem.

It's just stuff like that where the real dark and grit comes from, not just the blood that most comics show that cartoons never do. I'm not really sure if this particularly draws me in or pushes me away, per say. It's just comics and how they are. TMNT also has the extra advantage of the series actually being over, so to speak. Their futures are pretty much set in stone and I doubt Laird finishing Volume 4 will change that. There will be no New 52 change up or what-have-you. That's just how it's going to be.

[Levia24]

Of course. Darker aspects gives the spice to everything. It's much more enjoying to watch.

[Cipher]

So does the dark stuff draw you in or alienate you?
I don't know if "dark" is the right way to put it, since, at least for me, that has some fairly juvenile connotations.

Which , don't get me wrong; the earlier Mirage issues are kind of juvenile, but not in that way. Instead they're kind of free-wheeling and high on their own energy and pastiche elements. They're gritty but their tongue is placed firmly in cheek.

Later, though? Look, there's only one reason I still really have fondness for this property and keep coming back to it. Later Mirage took the strange foundations of the series and spun them int something that -- while still completely embracing its anything-goes, comic-book wackiness -- approached those elements as a layer of isolating weirdness. Later Mirage is an indie smorgasboard, genre-mixing series about growing old, about being straight-up bizarre, about isolation, about things just not working out even for a group of wacky, comic-booky, easily relatable characters living bittersweet, low-key lives where not everything's wrapped up. (And though I hate some of what it's done, I think the Mirage series' oft-unspoken relationship with the larger Turtles media around it is a fascinating element.) It's not always great, but it's always super fascinating, doubly so when read as a whole.

The Mirage series does get very "adult." Adult in a way most superhero comics would never even touch. But I'd hesitate to ever call it "dark" with all the reductiveness that implies, especially with superhero/comic-book properties.

The dark themes of depression & isolation, among other things, is a big part of what makes Mirage my favorite iteration. The world is screwed & they know it.

"Life at best is bittersweet"
Yep. You get the sense as Mirage goes on that, no matter how many steps they take as far as being good people, the Turtles are always on a path to tragedy because they're wrong just for existing (and, of course, because of their early actions and the circumstances they were raised for). I remember someone here a while back complaining that the bummer endings of all the Mirage plots seemed like pointless drudgery, but I'm like, "Dude, that's the point."

Just as it's also the point that it's tempered with all sorts of wackiness along the way.

And then there's one where Raph and a Foot Ninja have a drink and avoid being captured by aliens.... and then proceed to go back to their day-to-day without a thought on trying to rescue the victims that didn't get away because, hey, it's not their problem.
Love that issue because it's Mirage in a nutshell. Absolute comic-book insanity, comically bleak ending; everyone goes on with their day.

[Oisterboy]

I grew up with the original cartoon and loved it. When I got older I started to appreciate the first two movies more, and now that I'm an adult reading the comics is a real treat. I like that there's degrees of tone in the various turtles adaptations. Through the stages of my maturity there has always been a turtles medium for me to newly appreciate.

[Witless.reviews]

I honestly prefer the lighter side of TMNT, especially the 2012 series. I didn't really mind the Mirage comics more adult centric themes. I just hated the artwork. It just reminds me of early Judge Dredd comics from the 80's.

[Witless.reviews]

I honestly prefer the lighter side of TMNT, especially the 2012 series. I didn't really mind the Mirage comics more adult centric themes. I just hated the artwork. It just reminds me of early Judge Dredd comics from the 80's.

[Luckyday]

I don't know if "dark" is the right way to put it, since, at least for me, that has some fairly juvenile connotations.

Which , don't get me wrong; the earlier Mirage issues are kind of juvenile, but not in that way. Instead they're kind of free-wheeling and high on their own energy and pastiche elements. They're gritty but their tongue is placed firmly in cheek.

Later, though? Look, there's only one reason I still really have fondness for this property and keep coming back to it. Later Mirage took the strange foundations of the series and spun them int something that -- while still completely embracing its anything-goes, comic-book wackiness -- approached those elements as a layer of isolating weirdness. Later Mirage is an indie smorgasboard, genre-mixing series about growing old, about being straight-up bizarre, about isolation, about things just not working out even for a group of wacky, comic-booky, easily relatable characters living bittersweet, low-key lives where not everything's wrapped up. (And though I hate some of what it's done, I think the Mirage series' oft-unspoken relationship with the larger Turtles media around it is a fascinating element.) It's not always great, but it's always super fascinating, doubly so when read as a whole.

The Mirage series does get very "adult." Adult in a way most superhero comics would never even touch. But I'd hesitate to ever call it "dark" with all the reductiveness that implies, especially with superhero/comic-book properties.



To me "dark" is what a teenager would think of what an adult TMNT would look like to which they think of ultra violence and nudie but it just comes across as so over the top to a point where becomes utter laughable like "Oh watch guys, here comes mister badass" with such sarcasm.

TMNT stray away from that by taking some things in a serious matter and doesn't try glamorize things like when Casey kill a guy and the guy doesn't bleed a pool of blood like a Quentin Tarantino film, but just drop dead without a dramatic final speech and Casey having a realistic human reaction "Oh ****! I didn't mean kill him" because otherwise he would look like a sociopath if he's cracking jokes after committed murder even if it was out of self defense.

[Hurtszick]

I love the darker aspect. I think for me the perfect balance was the first movie. But do t get me wrong I really liked the first animated series as well. I'm on the fence on the nick show. I mean I loved the story lines but I have a hard time getting into the animation style.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

So while I have stated that I don't consider the "Grim and Gritty" Mirage comics to really live up to that reputation, I do certainly see darker aspects in TMNT. Tonally and storywise it's rarely very dark, but visually and thematically it can be dark.

Revenge, violence, black magic, mutalation etc, even stuff like that isn't always dark to the core, on the surface level it will still seem dark. And even if I don't consider any TMNT incarnation to be dark as whole (the ones I've experienced at least), the darker elements is what draws me to it, maybe because it's more sophiticated and unexpected from something called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" than something like "Cowabunga Pizza Time Dude!".

So does the dark stuff draw you in or alienate you?

Did you read much Archie? It started adopting the 1987 cartoon, and then created new stories. Then you got som mix with light and darker tones.

[Wesley]

I have mixed feelings about having darker aspects in tmnt. I've never read the comics, but I prefer TV shows that have a good balance of drama, action and comic relief (eg. Lost and Buffy). I thought the 2003 series did a great job at doing that.

[Shark_Blade]

Yes. I love blood, gore and violence. The more ruthless, the better.

[miru]

I don't know if "dark" is the right way to put it, since, at least for me, that has some fairly juvenile connotations.

Which , don't get me wrong; the earlier Mirage issues are kind of juvenile, but not in that way. Instead they're kind of free-wheeling and high on their own energy and pastiche elements. They're gritty but their tongue is placed firmly in cheek.

Later, though? Look, there's only one reason I still really have fondness for this property and keep coming back to it. Later Mirage took the strange foundations of the series and spun them int something that -- while still completely embracing its anything-goes, comic-book wackiness -- approached those elements as a layer of isolating weirdness. Later Mirage is an indie smorgasboard, genre-mixing series about growing old, about being straight-up bizarre, about isolation, about things just not working out even for a group of wacky, comic-booky, easily relatable characters living bittersweet, low-key lives where not everything's wrapped up. (And though I hate some of what it's done, I think the Mirage series' oft-unspoken relationship with the larger Turtles media around it is a fascinating element.) It's not always great, but it's always super fascinating, doubly so when read as a whole.

The Mirage series does get very "adult." Adult in a way most superhero comics would never even touch. But I'd hesitate to ever call it "dark" with all the reductiveness that implies, especially with superhero/comic-book properties.


Yep. You get the sense as Mirage goes on that, no matter how many steps they take as far as being good people, the Turtles are always on a path to tragedy because they're wrong just for existing (and, of course, because of their early actions and the circumstances they were raised for). I remember someone here a while back complaining that the bummer endings of all the Mirage plots seemed like pointless drudgery, but I'm like, "Dude, that's the point."

Just as it's also the point that it's tempered with all sorts of wackiness along the way.


Love that issue because it's Mirage in a nutshell. Absolute comic-book insanity, comically bleak ending; everyone goes on with their day.

Bravo, bravo Sir Cipher. I totally agree concerning Mirage's unique grim undertones in the later years. I could never see the story with Raph and Cha in the bar working anywhere but Mirage. If it were done elsewhere, Raph would be either with Casey or on a date with Mona Lisa/Ninjara/Alopex/Mezecal/Joi Renard, and they'd have to save those who didn't make it. In case Raph is on a date, he'd likely have to save the girl too. Instead, Raph and Cha just move on with their lives, pondering if the people will be slave labor or simply food. If they did make it unchanged, Mr. Enter would rant as children weep for their heroes.

The future stories also work well in this regard. In one asset, the mutants themselves are the bad guys, the badness brought upon by the Industrial Revolution bringing Global Warming and thus encouraging alien invasion. They are mistakes, unique. Other mutants seen are wicked, vile predators (Bloodsucker) or mindless creatures (the Arthropods from Tales vol.2 #17). "Loops" is a great example, as there was once a civilization of anthros, much like the mutants. It is gone now, all because of Leonardo's quest to fight Pai-Doth Noor.

Maybe this darkness is brought upon by Laird's distaste of the mega-franchise he had wrought. This rings especially true for "Loops", as a swat at the anthros found throughout the mythos. Maybe those mindless bugs are swats at that too?

In the end, Mirage is very different from the rest of the franchise, and will never happen again.

[Powder]

If it were done elsewhere, Raph would be on a date with Mona Lisa/Ninjara/Alopex/Mezecal/Joi Renard

Stoooooooooooooop.

[cloud]

If you pick up some of the Mirage comics that write about the future you would find that their future world is rather grim.
The Turtles are all separated and seem to have suffered a great lost and they are drifted apart.

I was really intrigued by the stories. It's a dark future but more grim than dark.

[miru]

Stoooooooooooooop.

Well, I know Joi and Mezecal are unlikely to ever return, so I was just being silly. But why do you slam me every time I bring Mona Lisa and co. up?

Also, I feel the future tales are all a perfect sign for Mirage's take on the mythos. The Turtles are a mistake, and will die mistakes just as how they were mistakes in their prime. They are part of a greater mistake that we ourselves are responsible for: the triumph of the Western world, and the rise of the industrial revolution. It is because of the Industrial Revolution that so many greenhouse gases were released, destroying our environment. Thus, the Utroms had to come and try to pick us off our doomed planet. The Turtles choose to be left behind as mistakes, the mistakes they are.

Everywhere else, the turtles are like chocolate chip cookies, good little mistakes that change the world. They end up saving the world by defeating various threats. But this original raw take is akin to that original King Arthur: a simple warlord defending his people from Anglo-Saxon attacks, much like Braveheart.

[Bombshell]

Humans are drawn to tragedy. The darker parts of TMNT are the more realistic and sobering parts that make the whole thing believable.

They are freaks. They are unwanted. There is no place for them in the natural order of things. They were raised for murder in a situation they were never a part of which then introduced them to a life time of war. They are forced to live in darkness, filth and poverty. They are one scientific discovery away from dismemberment in a lab. The turtles are very much a tragedy with comedy thrown into the mix to make things bearable.

Can they save everyone? No. Some people they just have to let go, and they have to be alright with that. People were killed and families were destroyed in their wake. They were raised for revenge and yet have enough compassion to somehow make it as "good guys".

The extraordinary part of it all is what draws me to their story, and its that they're all just doing the best they can with what they have - A couple years of martial arts training and a family to fall back on.

[Revan]

I was always more a fan of the stories based in "realism." If by "darker aspects" you mean violence then yes I prefer those stories. They are ninjas and they carry weapons; I like when they use them.

Volume 1 stories that didn't rely on the mystical or sci-fi themes were more fun for me. Just my opinion. It seemed like towards the end, Laird used Volume 4 to tell cosmic stories and the turtles were almost ancillary characters. It didn't seem like the books were about the turtles anymore. Things just got way too "big." Space and aliens... It just moved away from what I thought was fun about TMNT.

Getting back to your "darker aspects" question, I like it. A ninja fighting with a katana would have to be pretty inept to not cause some damage. I always liked the stories that showed the turtles as imperfect. They don't necessarily have to be "heroes" IMO.

[Danetello]

Maybe not so much darker, but perhaps the more challenging side of life. I like to see the "real life" struggles (even if such struggles are in sci-fi settings). I like to see how the characters deal with the more "human" aspects of life. Emotion, drama, the struggles of life. Doesn't have to be dark, just challenging.

[Luckyday]

Maybe not so much darker, but perhaps the more challenging side of life. I like to see the "real life" struggles (even if such struggles are in sci-fi settings). I like to see how the characters deal with the more "human" aspects of life. Emotion, drama, the struggles of life. Doesn't have to be dark, just challenging.

Exactly. Adult doesn't mean dark or gritty. It just means not everything can resolve under 30 minutes of a episode or morality of certain issues or even behavior of some characters can't be extremely black or white.

Splinter is not the paragon of honor or righteous and Shredder is not the devil that many versions seem to paint him as.

They are two are very flawed individuals that are lock in a feud of hatred and spite with everyone involved.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Exactly. Adult doesn't mean dark or gritty. It just means not everything can resolve under 30 minutes of a episode or morality of certain issues or even behavior of some characters can't be extremely black or white.

Splinter is not the paragon of honor or righteous and Shredder is not the devil that many versions seem to paint him as.

They two are very flawed individuals that are lock in a feud of hatred and spite with everyone involved.

I can add nothing to this nugget of truth. All I can do is nod vigorously and quote. :tgrin:

[Luckyday]

I can add nothing to this nugget of truth. All I can do is nod vigorously and quote. :tgrin:

http://media.giphy.com/media/dILZwwhulFUn6/giphy.gif