Why does April have powers despite Ciro claims it's tricky?

[neatoman]

So Ciro considers it tricky to write female characters with powers, as he claims they just get too much of a power creep, citing problems with writing Raven and Starfire on Teen Titans (Teen Titans had far bigger problems they should have been worried about but whatever). So as result he wanted April's powers and ninja training to not get out of hand.

I'm not necessarily against April being a psychic ninja, but why would he put that in the show if he thought it would cause problems? Even if the idea don't come from him it come from his crew, as far as I know April was never depicted with any powers before the show, so it just seems counterintuitive introduce an element they didn't believe they could handle.

What happened here? Did Ciro want to set the bar high? Did someone force him to do it? Does he simply have a priorities issue?

[CyberCubed]

He doesn't want April to overshadow the Turtles, which is what he implied if she gets too powerful.

A few months ago a bunch of butt-hurt feminists on tumblr took this the wrong way and posted angry rants about Ciro and how he was degrading female characters. It was hilarious.

[BabyTurtles]

He doesn't want April to overshadow the Turtles, which is what he implied if she gets too powerful.

A few months ago a bunch of butt-hurt feminists on tumblr took this the wrong way and posted angry rants about Ciro and how he was degrading female characters. It was hilarious.

I'm pretty sure they were mad because Ciro said there wasn't gonna be much girl characters in the show.

he said the only main ones were gonna be Karai and April which ticked people off.

so far there hasn't been any other girls....I mean Irma turned out to be a dude kraang( Renet may or may not last more than one episode)

[plastroncafe]

April is a psychic ninja because the writers have absolutely no idea what else to do with her. Since she can't be a damsel in distress, something that not only already been done but is also frowned upon in this day and age, she's a magical McGuffin.

[Ninturtle]

I'm pretty sure they were mad because Ciro said there wasn't gonna be much girl characters in the show.

he said the only main ones were gonna be Karai and April which ticked people off.

so far there hasn't been any other girls....I mean Irma turned out to be a dude kraang( Renet may or may not last more than one episode)

in the tmnt universe most characters are male so it makes sense there wouldn't be too many females in the show

[victory_angel]

I'm pretty sure they were mad because Ciro said there wasn't gonna be much girl characters in the show.

he said the only main ones were gonna be Karai and April which ticked people off.

so far there hasn't been any other girls....I mean Irma turned out to be a dude kraang( Renet may or may not last more than one episode)

But Renet is going to be Mikey's love interest and she is a timestress in training. While she may not have as much of an episodeic presence as April or as much of a dramatic presence as Karai. She will have more of a presence then she has had in the past. I hope they don't make her a bumbling ditz so that she's equil to Mikey. After all April has traites that could fit all four turtles.

She's smart but nowhere near Donnie's level of intelect.

She's has Spiritual powers and may equate with Leo in that respect. But she isn't going to rely on her spiritual gifts at every given moment.

Like Raph she is shrude, head strong and impulsive. Which has helped her in some respects. But it also has gotten her in trouble in other situations.

Like Mikey, she does know when to kick back and go with the flow. And knows when to follow her intuition.

I'm goint to agree with CyberCubed that yes Ciro was implying having too many girls with powers over shadowing the Turtles.

With Raven and Starfire, Starfire was an alien warrior princess. She is super strong and she can fire power blasts that could hurt or kill people if she doesn't control it. But she is also very nieve about the work around her and has a perspective on things that can appear childish at times. She can also speak any language just by kissing someone.

Raven is a half demon girl. She also can become emencely powerful and can be dangerous if she doesn't keep her power centered. And on top of that she is the key that prevents her father from coming to enslave the earth. So that also has made it hard for her to open up and get to know people, because of the fear that people would hate and fear her because of what she is. Or control her and use her as weapon.


April at this time she can't control her power. She has a way to sense things which has aid both the Turtles and herself. Which is good, but her senses in a way have also alienated her as it was mentioned in the info about her during season one that she relates more to the Turtles then her own peers. So when her powers only strongly reveals itself when she is under great duress which is when April herself or when people she cares about is seriously threatened making it more of deos ex machina then a super power. She still doesn't understand what these powers are or why she has them. All she knows now is that the powers are some how an unforseen by product of having Kraang DNA in her blood stream. While right now she can be classified as a mutant, I strongly feel Donnie only said she was a mutant because he didn't know any other way to discribe what she is.
And we will likely learn more about April's connection to the Kraang as things progress.

And as she learns more about her past and her connection to the Kraang, she will also learn how to harness her latent powers she would be able to control them better. Ho Chan did point out that she had barely tapped into them.

[Luckyday]

I'm pretty sure they were mad because Ciro said there wasn't gonna be much girl characters in the show.

he said the only main ones were gonna be Karai and April which ticked people off.

so far there hasn't been any other girls....I mean Irma turned out to be a dude kraang( Renet may or may not last more than one episode)

There was also the fact that he felt the quota of women if filled because the bad and good girl role are already taken by Karai and April.

It like the man doesn't understand character dimension and feels women can only be portray as either catwoman or girl next door.

That is kind of **** up.http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/wth.png

[plastroncafe]

It would hardly be the first time the person holding the reins of the franchise was incapable of creating/maintaining female characters with any deftness.

[BabyTurtles]

It would hardly be the first time the person holding the reins of the franchise was incapable of creating/maintaining female characters with any deftness.

man why is it so hard for them to make girl characters?

[Coola Yagami]

man why is it so hard for them to make girl characters?

Because it's a male-oriented show?

It's kinda like an all-female show. The guys are either the 'dreamy one' that all the girl wants, or the nerdy/fat one nobody wants.

[Luckyday]

It would hardly be the first time the person holding the reins of the franchise was incapable of creating/maintaining female characters with any deftness.

But at the same time, Karai had dimension to her character while we have only started to see a little on the surface in April in season 3.

Ciro makes the basic outlines but the writer and director make the final version so who ever did Karai episodes knew how to write female characters.

Or you could say that the reason why we know so much about Karai then April because Karai was more a seasonal character while April is one of the main characters so...her family background, personality or whatever has to be save for future seasons down the line. If this is true then Karai becoming a mutant was a means to a end of her character because the writers don't know what else to do with her meanwhile April is stuck in static character limbo, waiting for the writers throw her a ****ing bone.

[Cure]

Because it's a male-oriented show?

It's kinda like an all-female show. The guys are either the 'dreamy one' that all the girl wants, or the nerdy/fat one nobody wants.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one.

Like, I've said before but I don't see the need for equality in fiction. I'm pretty show if a show were made of pretty much anyone's life, there would not be equal representation.

[victory_angel]

man why is it so hard for them to make girl characters?

So culture believe that a woman is at there most powerful while they are on or around their moon cycle. Parturally since girls can be hormonal about that time. That is not the case for girls, but it is something that happens.

And April's powers seem fueled by her emotion, particularly when she is distressed.

[plastroncafe]

man why is it so hard for them to make girl characters?

Because they're bad at their jobs.

[ticktack]

:oops:
Some people just ... SHUTUP
Someone with Leo avatar had mentioned before and telling and agreeing that the concept of good-bad girl is overshown if that what was meant.
In my opinion, btw, I didn't fully saw Karai as a bad girl: she had regrets, angst, a little light on her backstory.

[Electric]

Because it's a male-oriented show?

It's kinda like an all-female show. The guys are either the 'dreamy one' that all the girl wants, or the nerdy/fat one nobody wants.

This is my thought.

The generic formula for tmnt is 4 male turtles, a male rat, a male villain, a male friend, and a female friend. Completely unbalanced, But that's just what tmnt is. If you wanna argue it, you're gonna have to go back to the creators.

With the raven starfire thing, if you think about it, obviously it's going to be hard to not make them overpowered. Robin had no powers, beast boy had 1 and cyborg had a laser and strength. Meanwhile, both girls could lift objects 10 times their weight, both had long range powers, both could fly, Stanfire could shoot multiple types of lasers, raven could make a basically indestructible shield, lift things way out of the way, bind anyone, even go through walls and floors. Their powers were just so much stronger and more versatile, that it was hard to make star fire and say robin, fighting with a stick and some boomerangs, seem even remotely on the same level.

And to those saying they don't know how to write female characters, I can't even think of a way to try and explain how wrong you are. Karai is probably one of if not the most developed character in this entire show, and she isn't even in every episode. Whether you like where they'd taken her or not, that doesn't define their ability to write her, she has been fully and completely developed, and they aren't even done with her. She has shown multiple sides, good and bad, she's had fantastic conflict, and the scene where she mutated could arguably be one of the most dramatic and heart wrenching in the show, because she's a character we've come to know so well

[Papenbrook]

There was also the fact that he felt the quota of women if filled because the bad and good girl role are already taken by Karai and April.

It like the man doesn't understand character dimension and feels women can only be portray as either catwoman or girl next door.

That is kind of **** up.http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/wth.png


Not to mention that the show also objectifies April/Karai to a certain extent.

[BubblyShell22]

All Ciro said was that he didn't want April to overshadow the Turtles and become too powerful, and she hasn't. She's only shown her powers when she senses something or is under great distress while near anything relating to the Kraang (when they were going to drill her head, when she confronted Kraang Prime, and when she confronted the Mom Clone). It would be tricky if she used her powers all of the time, but she hasn't, and I think that's because Ciro wants a balance with her. He's achieved that, and that's pretty awesome.

And forget about other female characters. Do we really need them? As I've said before, I watch the show for the Turtles and could care less how many other female characters are there.

[Luckyday]

I am not asking for female characters to be part of the cast of the main seven because that would feel force. I would just like to see some one shot female characters or female characters that we will probably see as much as any of the other minor characters but preferably characters that are different in personality and goes beyond the good girl and bad girl dynamic. Karai is a step in the right direction and I hope that whoever did the Karai episodes will do the Renet episode because I don't trust Ciro when it comes to female characters since his interpretation of April doesn't really run deep in character.

We had two female mutants (excluding April) in the show so far and at least one of them could talk.

[Mellie]

Not to mention that the show also objectifies April/Karai to a certain extent.

Are you talking about the ass shots? because there's tons of Turtle crotch too. They even zoomed into Casey's junk a few times. There's just a general focus on that region for whatever reason :lol:

[Ninturtle]

Not to mention that the show also objectifies April/Karai to a certain extent.

No it doesn't , those characters aren't made likable just because they're attractive and for no other reason. Also objectification isn't even a bad thing it is just a marketing tactic that harms no one.

[Ninturtle]

I am not asking for female characters to be part of the cast of the main seven because that would feel force. I would just like to see some one shot female characters or female characters that we will probably see as much as any of the other minor characters but preferably characters that are different in personality and goes beyond the good girl and bad girl dynamic. Karai is a step in the right direction and I hope that whoever did the Karai episodes will do the Renet episode because I don't trust Ciro when it comes to female characters since his interpretation of April doesn't really run deep in character.

We had two female mutants (excluding April) in the show so far and at least one of them could talk.

Ciro is the executive producer he was in charge of the Karai and April episodes he just didn't write any episodes .

[Ninturtle]

Because they're bad at their jobs.

one of the important things about having this show for Nick is that it sells toys. Female figures in a line targeted mostly at males don't sell as well.

[plastroncafe]

Objectification, a cornerstone of the marketing industry, can and does hurt people.

The Krang objectify April, she is not a person to them...but an actual object to obtain and control.

It could be argued that Shredder objectifies Karai, in that he purposely uses her as an instrument of revenge against Splinter, both on a physical and on an emotional front. I don't think Saki intended on coming to love Karai as much as he does, which is a testament to the depth of his character.

Donnie objectifies April every single time he calls her "My April."

The writers would have a far less difficult time combating the issue of "over powered female characters" if they'd add more. Relying on token characters means that those characters must be all things for that section of the population...and that leads to power imbalances.

They do it to themselves.

one of the important things about having this show for Nick is that it sells toys. Female figures in a line targeted mostly at males don't sell as well.

So market them for girls.
Or maybe get rid of the ridiculous notion that there's such things as "boys toys" and "girls toys".

It's like these toy companies don't want to make money.

[Amaranthus]

Are you talking about the ass shots? because there's tons of Turtle crotch too. They even zoomed into Casey's junk a few times. There's just a general focus on that region for whatever reason :lol:

I love the ass shots.
Please don't hate me.

[Candy Kappa]

So market them for girls.
Or maybe get rid of the ridiculous notion that there's such things as "boys toys" and "girls toys".

That's crazy talk!

But seriously, the lack of female characters is hogwash. And Playmates lack of interest in April variants and just Snake Karai is really frustrating. I might as well print my own Karai.

[plastroncafe]

That's crazy talk!

Don't I know it.
I mean, if there's one thing that girls hate, it's playing with dolls.
This is why Disney's been losing money hand over fist for years, because they keep marketing dolls to girls. When will they learn?!

But seriously, the lack of female characters is hogwash. And Playmates lack of interest in April variants and just Snake Karai is really frustrating. I might as well print my own Karai

I want a Metalhead doll...oh excuse me action figure. I would totally have gone in on an Irma action figure too, but...after her reveal I'm kind of all set without one.

The dream beavers and ice cream kitty however...

[Candy Kappa]

damn right it's called action figures, dolls are boring... Cause they don't have action, and stuff...

I'd love to see a Irma figure, but I'm not holding my breath...

[Ninturtle]

Objectification, a cornerstone of the marketing industry, can and does hurt people.

The Krang objectify April, she is not a person to them...but an actual object to obtain and control.

It could be argued that Shredder objectifies Karai, in that he purposely uses her as an instrument of revenge against Splinter, both on a physical and on an emotional front. I don't think Saki intended on coming to love Karai as much as he does, which is a testament to the depth of his character.

Donnie objectifies April every single time he calls her "My April."

The writers would have a far less difficult time combating the issue of "over powered female characters" if they'd add more. Relying on token characters means that those characters must be all things for that section of the population...and that leads to power imbalances.

They do it to themselves.



So market them for girls.
Or maybe get rid of the ridiculous notion that there's such things as "boys toys" and "girls toys".

It's like these toy companies don't want to make money.

1.Why would the villians of the show think of April as anything but an object . They only want her to accomplish their plans. It's not like the show only uses her as an object. Or should the Villians just respect April and leave her alone so they.

2. When Donnie calls her my April it's just a cute pet name . Donnie clearly thinks of her as more than an object and you would have to be stupid not to see that.

geez

[Ninturtle]

That's crazy talk!

But seriously, the lack of female characters is hogwash. And Playmates lack of interest in April variants and just Snake Karai is really frustrating. I might as well print my own Karai.

Snake Karai will sell better with the male demographic which is the majority of kids that buy the figures.

[Candy Kappa]

I didn't know calling someone by their actual name, and imply them as yours possession is a "cute pet name".

Snake Karai will sell better with the male demographic which is the majority of kids that buy the figures.

Still doesn't change that normal Karai looks better then the Snake mutated form. Considering she's been very prominent in the show but only gets a toy as soon as she mutates is very annoying.

[Ninturtle]

Objectification, a cornerstone of the marketing industry, can and does hurt people.

The Krang objectify April, she is not a person to them...but an actual object to obtain and control.

It could be argued that Shredder objectifies Karai, in that he purposely uses her as an instrument of revenge against Splinter, both on a physical and on an emotional front. I don't think Saki intended on coming to love Karai as much as he does, which is a testament to the depth of his character.

Donnie objectifies April every single time he calls her "My April."

The writers would have a far less difficult time combating the issue of "over powered female characters" if they'd add more. Relying on token characters means that those characters must be all things for that section of the population...and that leads to power imbalances.

They do it to themselves.



So market them for girls.
Or maybe get rid of the ridiculous notion that there's such things as "boys toys" and "girls toys".

It's like these toy companies don't want to make money.

Yes girls can play with action figures but boys are the majority of people who buy them.
And the toys aren't just marked for boys they market them for kids. The toys dont have a sticker that says boys only. it's just that young boys are the majority of people who buy them.

[Ninturtle]

I didn't know calling someone by their actual name, and imply them as yours possession is a "cute pet name".

it's like calling someone " my love" it's pretty obvious Donnie doesn't think he owns April.

[Candy Kappa]

Then he would have said "my love" or any other actual pet names which I'm pretty sure he have done.

"My [name]" sounds creepy and possessive. Something Gaston from Beauty and the Beast would say.

[plastroncafe]

Except for that pesky use of the possessive "My."
Donnie wouldn't be jealous of Casey if he didn't think he had a claim on April's affection.

But we digress...

[Ninturtle]

Except for that pesky use of the possessive "My."
Donnie wouldn't be jealous of Casey if he didn't think he had a claim on April's affection.

But we digress...

Donnie doesn't objectify April when he says " My April " it's clear he doesn't feel he has control over her you guys are just misinterpreting it. And Donnie being Jealous of Casey is not objectification of April wanting someones affection is not objectifying them!!!!

[Ninturtle]

you guys make it seem like April is Donnies slave and thats all he thinks of her

[Amaranthus]

you guys make it seem like April is Donnies slave and thats all he thinks of her

I thought the hardcore feminists only used Tumblr.
Guess I was wrong.

[plastroncafe]

Yes girls can play with action figures but boys are the majority of people who buy them.
And the toys aren't just marked for boys they market them for kids. The toys dont have a sticker that says boys only. it's just that young boys are the majority of people who buy them.

So what you're suggesting here is that boys buy more dolls than girls do?

[Ninturtle]

I thought the hardcore feminists only used Tumblr.
Guess I was wrong.

I was not expecting feminist on the technodrome forums either. It was a sad sight to behold.

[Ninturtle]

So what you're suggesting here is that boys buy more dolls than girls do?

*face palm* I'm suggesting that the majority of TMNT action figure sales are from young boys.

[Amaranthus]

So what you're suggesting here is that boys buy more dolls than girls do?

Sexism! Help! HELP!

[Ninturtle]

Sexism! Help! HELP!

Obviously the patriarchy at work (sarcasm) .

[plastroncafe]

Don't worry, Darling.
I put up so ever so much more of a fight than the tumblr feminists windmills you're used to tilting at.

Ciro told me that there doesn't need to be more girls on the show because they have the good one and the bad one, and that's enough. He then went on to tell me that the problem with female characters is that they get too powerful, that this was something he had to deal with on Teen Titans.

My response to that now, and what it should have been then, is: add more girls.
Then the token girls you have don't have to be all powerful, because they're not representing everything "other" by their mere existence.

April doesn't have to have powers to be interesting, she just has to be written well. And...that appears to be the rub.
Few people can write her well, and when they can't...they give her a supernatural backstory.

It's rich to hear someone complain about how 'overpowered the girls are' when they're working in the confines of the DC universe. Batman is arguably the most Mary Sue character in comics, but very rarely does anyone ever say he's overpowered. Teen Titans has Robin, the protege of Batman...and yet he's never overpowered.
It's just ridiculous.

[Aaronardo]

I was not expecting feminist on the technodrome forums either. It was a sad sight to behold.

Wait... so it was a sad sight for you to behold yourself?

Also, lack of female characters should not be a problem. Would increasing the number of female characters in a show called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" really help the current situation for women any? I personally think not.

[Gunstar_Red]

I totally understand the writing problem with April. I'm happy that they decided to evolve her character (and Karai's) and how much psychics are cool, but writing a character with powers IS tricky because you don't want them to end up as a deus ex machina. Those characters are sloppy writing.

Also, the writers just don't want to overshadow the Turtles. Obvious since the show is named after them...

And the nonsense some of you saying that there aren't that many female characters in the TMNT universe apparently didn't read the comics.

About the objectivism, I think most people ignore April's reactions when other characters treat her that way.

[Ninturtle]

Don't worry, Darling.
I put up so ever so much more of a fight than the tumblr feminists windmills you're used to tilting at.

Ciro told me that there doesn't need to be more girls on the show because they have the good one and the bad one, and that's enough. He then went on to tell me that the problem with female characters is that they get too powerful, that this was something he had to deal with on Teen Titans.

My response to that now, and what it should have been then, is: add more girls.
Then the token girls you have don't have to be all powerful, because they're not representing everything "other" by their mere existence.

April doesn't have to have powers to be interesting, she just has to be written well. And...that appears to be the rub.
Few people can write her well, and when they can't...they give her a supernatural backstory.

It's rich to hear someone complain about how 'overpowered the girls are' when they're working in the confines of the DC universe. Batman is arguably the most Mary Sue character in comics, but very rarely does anyone ever say he's overpowered. Teen Titans has Robin, the protege of Batman...and yet he's never overpowered.
It's just ridiculous.

what Ciro meant by saying they get to powerful was that April would over shadow the turtles. And April having powers and that back story was probably to make her have a connection to the kraang.

[Ninturtle]

Wait... so it was a sad sight for you to behold yourself?

Also, lack of female characters should not be a problem. Would increasing the number of female characters in a show called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" really help the current situation for women any? I personally think not.

Im not a feminist I was being sarcastic.
edit I was actually saying how the feminist make a big deal of nothing at all when i said they make it seem like Donnie was Aprils slave

[plastroncafe]

what Ciro meant by saying they get to powerful was that April would over shadow the turtles. And April having powers and that back story was probably to make her have a connection to the kraang.

I know what he said, because I was the one who asked him the question.

[Candy Kappa]

And the nonsense some of you saying that there aren't that many female characters apparently didn't read the comics.

We're not talking about the comics, now are we?


Im not a feminist I was being sarcastic.

So... You don't want equality? Women getting lesser paid is a-okay by you? Men seen as illl suited as single parents, hence forth have a smaller chance of getting child custody? Etc etc

Wow, you're a special kind of something.

[Gunstar_Red]

We're not talking about the comics, now are we?

No, but some people believe that the series is only male driven.

[Candy Kappa]

No, but some people believe that the series is only male driven.

Yes, the Nick cartoon is, seeing how the third female character (Irma) was revealed to be a pilot suit for a Kraang.

There is only two female characters in the show, April and Karai.

The mutant wasps was a monster-of-the-week non-speaking creature, the Tea Girl is a background character. The Cockroach is not confirmed, Bigfoot was for one episode.

[plastroncafe]

Yes, the Nick cartoon is, seeing how the third female character (Irma) was revealed to be a pilot suit for a Kraang.

There is only two female characters in the show, April and Karai.

The mutant wasps was a monster-of-the-week non-speaking creature, the Tea Girl is a background character. The Cockroach is not confirmed, Bigfoot was for one episode.

I did like how Bigfoot put a lampshade on the whole "male as default" thing, that was nice. If only that episode had had a better ending.

But yeah, the Nick Toon is very heavily male-driven.

[Ninturtle]

I did like how Bigfoot put a lampshade on the whole "male as default" thing, that was nice. If only that episode had had a better ending.

But yeah, the Nick Toon is very heavily male-driven.

That's not a big deal that this show has mostly male characters as many female oriented shows have very few male charecters.

[plastroncafe]

That's not a big deal that this show has mostly male characters as many female oriented shows have very few male charecters.

It's nice that you think that.

[Ninturtle]

It's nice that you think that.

I like Karai and April and I'm content with that. Some characters i'd like to see are female but it's not for the sake of having more girls on the show.

[pennydreadful]

I thought the hardcore feminists only used Tumblr.
Guess I was wrong.

I was not expecting feminist on the technodrome forums either. It was a sad sight to behold.

Damn those women and their pesky opinions.

[Ninturtle]

Damn those women and their pesky opinions.

They're opinions are illogical and they try to find sexism in everything. So excuse me if I look down on feminist.

[pennydreadful]

Just as long as you excuse me for looking down on anti-feminists.

Seriously though, you're hella right - feminists are trouble.

http://harkavagrant.com/nonsense/SF1.jpg

[Luckyday]

Just as long as you excuse me for looking down on anti-feminists.

Seriously though, you're hella right - feminists are trouble.

http://harkavagrant.com/nonsense/SF1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/V4xJW6d.png

You are awesome.

[Ninturtle]

Just as long as you excuse me for looking down on anti-feminists.

Seriously though, you're hella right - feminists are trouble.

http://harkavagrant.com/nonsense/SF1.jpg

In this statement you provide no reason why anti feminist are wrong. And indeed you're right feminist are trouble. They censor things they don't like for stupid reasons like targets in Australia removing GTA 5 for promoting violence against women when in the game you only torture and rob men in the game.

[Jester]

Well since you guys can't seem to play nice....