Would you like to see any changes to the designs in TMNT2?

[Leolead]

I'd personally make them smaller.

[Powder]

Wouldn't mind them all having the gear/accessories toned down, Donnie especially.

Might be kinda weird if they just outta no-where made the turtles smaller, but they're definitely too big... I dunno.

[Candy Kappa]

I wouldn't mind a complete creature design overhaul.

But realistically... Shorten them, remove the unnecessary kibble that's been stashed in them and fix the shell.

[joefsas]

But how would you explain em getting smaller/shorter in the movie. Wouldn't make any sense. Just get rid of some of their gear, Donnie especially and I think they'd look much better.

[Powder]

But how would you explain em getting smaller/shorter in the movie.

The same way the original films explained the turtles having completely different faces/headshapes/skin/voice actors.

Oh, wait...

[joefsas]

Fair point :P

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

YES! Slim them down and take away some of their gear, please.

[Commenter 42]

Hopefully they make them even bigger. That would be, grand. 8)

[B-Man]

Liebesman never made anything close to a family film before Turtles, his films are nearly all stocked with ugly looking creatures, so it's not suprising he didn't care to make them look cute & adorable. Dave Green has only one film to his name & it is a family film, so he may wanna do some tweaking. Since the two films are so close to each other in release, there probably won't be too big a makeover, but making the noses less flat would be nice.

[Shark_Blade]

Smaller and less gear would be a nice evolution, so to speak.

I'd keep the stylized loin cloth in front of their crotch though. :trazz:

[TigerClaw]

I think the designs will remain the same, Except, They will probably have different articles of clothing this time.

[IndigoErth]

If anything... just tweak/decrease the shell size (and positioning?) just a little. Still feels a tad much. Almost makes my own back hurt just watching it.

And let up on the busyness of what Mikey and Donnie have going on there. (Being tazed should have fried most of Donnie's tech stuff anyhow?) I assume their wardrobe will prob change anyhow though, if for nothing else but toy sales.

It took a long time to get moderately used to the look of them and don't trust them that a change would be for the better... easier to just not have a relapse of trying to accept that again. Still find that lighting, angles, etc really either help or hurt... just include some more flatting scenes along with those that are not so much and I can deal.

[Powder]

If anything... just tweak/decrease the shell size (and positioning?) just a little. Still feels a tad much. Almost makes my own back hurt just watching it.


Yeeeeeeah. That would help.

[NinjaPug]

Make them smaller and remove all the unneeded extra gear (which is all of it).

Doubt it happens though. It's easier and cheaper (music to PD's ears) to keep them the same.

[TrickOrTreater]

Make them smaller and remove all the unneeded extra gear (which is all of it).

Doubt it happens though. It's easier and cheaper (music to PD's ears) to keep them the same.

Yep. I'll be shocked as hell if it does happen, but I bet it won't.

[crazymind30]

Wauw i honestly can't believe how much people want to change about them, am i the only one who really liked everything about em wellllll........ maybe raphaels mask needs tweaking but thats it for me.

i want to change two things ,

- Shredder needs a full remake in my eyes he looked dumb in the movie with 6 sword thingies

- If i remeber correctly splinter should be evenly matched or stronger than shredder so why was he getting owned so hard .

these are the things that bothered me and i would love to see these changes

[Xiewin]

Since I'm already fond of the designs, the only thing I would change is Donnie's tech overload, Leo's Bamboo chest armor and Mikey's extra sunglasses.

Other than that, I'm fine with them.


Well Splinter is the only one I would re-design completely.

[Galactus]

Do I want them to be redesigned? Yes

Will it happen? Somewhat. After all they've got new toys to sell but even though they've shown some acknowledgement that the movie was unpopular and are promising changes they're still going to credibly sell this as a sequel to a "hit" movie which means they wont be redesigned as much as fans would hope.

The best we can hope for is that they tone down their various accessories and lose some of the bulk or in Donatello's case add some. Given that these designs are supposed to be "realistic" their clown clothes and exaggerated proportions really distract from that.

[Commenter 42]

I still can't understand how anyone can "like" the design work. It's the ugly christmas sweater of character designs.
http://www.esquire.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/DC/rock-your-ugly-christmas-sweater-guy-mdn.jpg

I would have been happier with stick figures drawn in MS paint than the crap they put on the screen.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I would like their head bands to be a different shade of blue, red, orange, and purple.

[Powder]

I would like their head bands to be a different shade of blue, red, orange, and purple.

In what way? More vibrant, or less so? Or just a few notches over on the hue spectrum? Could make some Photoshop mock-ups or something.

[IndigoErth]

Well that one is nearly as easy as changing the title, so I could see them falling for that demand. :P

But you're gonna force Leo to have to rewrap the handles of his blades so it's an appropriately matching shade... seriously, how easy do people think these materials are to come by? :tlol: Not that he didn't lose one that will prob magically reappear.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, IIRC, I think he got it back- along with (most of) the mutagen from that canister. They whisked off with it when they did their "ninja vanish" act at the end.

[IndigoErth]

True, since they did act like they had the mutagen when they got home to Splinter.

Wouldn't mind seeing a film short of how they pulled that off without being spotted with people standing around gawking at the Shredder crater. lol

[ernesth100]

Well I'd say change the designs but they won't do that.

[ToTheNines]

Make them smaller and remove all the unneeded extra gear (which is all of it).

Doubt it happens though. It's easier and cheaper (music to PD's ears) to keep them the same.

Yeah, but that's why the gear never made sense to me on any level. They had to have spent millions of dollars rendering and animating all that shite.

[Commenter 42]

Yeah, but that's why the gear never made sense to me on any level. They had to have spent millions of dollars rendering and animating all that shite.

It's like having a hole in the wall, and hanging an ugly picture over it; it's the lazy solution to a problem.

"How do their legs bend around the shell? I don't know, just tie a sweater around their waste! Problem solved!"

Lazy.

[Xav]

- If i remeber correctly splinter should be evenly matched or stronger than shredder so why was he getting owned so hard .Because he was self taught?

[Leo656]

You already know what they're going to do.

They're going to get their asses handed to them by Bebop and Rocksteady somewhere around the middle of the film, possibly by Shredder as well, and the solution will be Giant Stupid-Looking Armor, possibly made from trash and junk. You know. To be "realistic". The climax of the third act will be the "Mecha-Turtles" throwing down with the bad guys, most likely in the middle of Times Square, smashing cars and toppling buildings. Because the first one wasn't enough of a Transformers movie.

That's the only "redesign" they're going to do. Stupid Mech Armor, to sell more stupid toys. This is 99.999% certain to happen.

[IndigoErth]

You already know what they're going to do.

They're going to get their asses handed to them by Bebop and Rocksteady somewhere around the middle of the film, possibly by Shredder as well, and the solution will be Giant Stupid-Looking Armor, possibly made from trash and junk. You know. To be "realistic". The climax of the third act will be the "Mecha-Turtles" throwing down with the bad guys, most likely in the middle of Times Square, smashing cars and toppling buildings. Because the first one wasn't enough of a Transformers movie.

That's the only "redesign" they're going to do. Stupid Mech Armor, to sell more stupid toys. This is 99.999% certain to happen.
Things I'd spoken in jest, like them being bulletproof, things that were just, "Ho ho, surely they'll never do THAT", they went and f***in' Did.
I am getting the duct tape...

[Leo656]

:lol: It's not MY fault I have the uncanny ability to predict how stupid people make stupid decisions. :lol:

[TrickOrTreater]

you already know what they're going to do.

They're going to get their asses handed to them by bebop and rocksteady somewhere around the middle of the film, possibly by shredder as well, and the solution will be giant stupid-looking armor, possibly made from trash and junk. You know. To be "realistic". The climax of the third act will be the "mecha-turtles" throwing down with the bad guys, most likely in the middle of times square, smashing cars and toppling buildings. Because the first one wasn't enough of a transformers movie.

That's the only "redesign" they're going to do. Stupid mech armor, to sell more stupid toys. This is 99.999% certain to happen.

...

F*ck

[Leo656]

...I think I may have that Scarlet Witch super-power where stuff I say out loud comes true... :teek:

[IndigoErth]

Then we'll all come up with a great script and then you read it out loud, we can save this thing! :lol:

[Leolead]

You already know what they're going to do.

They're going to get their asses handed to them by Bebop and Rocksteady somewhere around the middle of the film, possibly by Shredder as well, and the solution will be Giant Stupid-Looking Armor, possibly made from trash and junk. You know. To be "realistic". The climax of the third act will be the "Mecha-Turtles" throwing down with the bad guys, most likely in the middle of Times Square, smashing cars and toppling buildings. Because the first one wasn't enough of a Transformers movie.

That's the only "redesign" they're going to do. Stupid Mech Armor, to sell more stupid toys. This is 99.999% certain to happen.
You're not funny, dude.

[Galactus]

...I think I may have that Scarlet Witch super-power where stuff I say out loud comes true... :teek:

No more mutant....turtle movies by Platinum Dunes

[Powder]

You're not funny, dude.

That's not very nice.

That's his prediction, nothing more. & it's not entirely unreasonable.

[TrickOrTreater]

You're not funny, dude.

Jesus.

F*cking ridiculous.

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

You already know what they're going to do.

They're going to get their asses handed to them by Bebop and Rocksteady somewhere around the middle of the film, possibly by Shredder as well, and the solution will be Giant Stupid-Looking Armor, possibly made from trash and junk. You know. To be "realistic". The climax of the third act will be the "Mecha-Turtles" throwing down with the bad guys, most likely in the middle of Times Square, smashing cars and toppling buildings. Because the first one wasn't enough of a Transformers movie.

That's the only "redesign" they're going to do. Stupid Mech Armor, to sell more stupid toys. This is 99.999% certain to happen.

http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA2LzEyLzY2L0phY2tOaWNob2xzLjIxZTBhLmdpZg pwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/a7087029/e2b/Jack-Nicholson.gif

GOD DAMNIT! You're probably right.

[Leo656]

You're not funny, dude.

Actually, I'm hilarious. True Story.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

...I think I may have that Scarlet Witch super-power where stuff I say out loud comes true... :teek:

Dude, then shut up already!!! TMNT 1 was bad enough without you speaking more abomination into existence! :twink:

[IndigoErth]

I know, right? We need to get some pseudo optimism in here or something. :tlol:

[Leolead]

No negative people are allowed in this thread.

Kidding. lol.

[Commenter 42]

Maybey the can open PDMT 2 with the "It was all a bad dream" cliche.

It might be the only time it would be acceptable to do so.

[IndigoErth]

That could work... They all wake up with a start (at least one of them falling out of bed), having all just had some sci-fi-ish shared dream and they've never really left the lair before. lol Then proceed to alien/alien-Shredder story line that had some connection to it.

[Leolead]

http://i.imgur.com/RURoqTY.jpg

Leo needs to look more like this.

[Commenter 42]

http://i.imgur.com/RURoqTY.jpg

Leo needs to look more like this.

No. He needs to not look anything like that.

[IndigoErth]

:tthumbsu: Pretty much same page, my fave version is this one: http://i.imgur.com/I7h3ZFN.jpg Only thing different I think is the eyes aren't as big.

Granted I can see the resemblance with the actual model, and have to give some leeway between softly colored polished concept art and the actual models, lighting, etc (just how that's gonna come across visually vs what's basically an illustration) - but I'm betting he'd prob would have looked closer to that prior to being shot up with the steroids and force fed protein shakes and triple cheese party-sized pizzas.

Still want an art book. Or a whole TMNT visual story told via that person's work. Doesn't even needs words, just lots and lots of pages of that art that speaks 1000 of them.


No. He needs to not look anything like that.
:trazz: Turn back a year ago and nothing else to go by I'd be agreeing. But choosing only among the concept art that's turned up for what was going to happen, that's the best looking stuff that has turned up (imo) of what somewhat almost not quite happened. (Still want those weird alien-looking ones to turn up as bad guys though. lol)

[Leolead]

No. He needs to not look anything like that. Then what exactly, are you expecting him to look like? this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130912042524/ultimatepopculture/images/2/23/Oldleo.JPG ?
:neutral: we definitely aren't going to get a drastic redesign, so I'm hoping they tone down the proportions a bit. something like this would be ideal: http://i.imgur.com/h4MlVZi.jpg

[Commenter 42]

Then what exactly, are you expecting him to look like? this:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130912042524/ultimatepopculture/images/2/23/Oldleo.JPG ?
:neutral: we definitely aren't going to get a drastic redesign, so I'm hoping they tone down the proportions a bit. something like this would be ideal: http://i.imgur.com/h4MlVZi.jpg

Again, the problem is, we are speaking in definitive tuerms. I get my back up when you use the word "ideal" without also using, "in my opinion".

And don't be absurd. I don't think the turtles should look like their cartoon counterparts of 1987, any more than I think the humans should look like their cartoon counterparts, in a live action film. I hate when CG calls attention to itself. It shouldn't ever feel un-real. If you can't do it with CG, then go back to Puppets.

Realism, requires actual realism, to be believed. Otherwise, don't do a live action movie, make it an animated affair and go nuts. Make it an all out anime, or CG the 87 verse, or the Mirage verse, or 2003, or something altogether new.

Just, don't put a 6ft ugly ass garbage pail kid shrek next to a human and expect me to buy it.

And if they insist on keeping the OT design in live action, then just do the damned OT design, in CG. Just under 5 feet tall, etc. if they're going to look like cartoons, may as well go the distance.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

[neatoman]

Well first and foremost they need to tone down the personalised bling on the turtles, I know it's there to be visual differences between them but there is such a thing as too much. I don't like Raph's mask covering the top of his head, I don't know why I just never liked it when the masks covered the top of the head on the turtles, it's silly to complain about such a minor detail but I just don't like it.

Other than that, the faces do look too human, I don't know how they would explain such a change but they would be a lot more pleasant to look at if they had less human faces.

[Leolead]

Again, the problem is, we are speaking in definitive tuerms. I get my back up when you use the word "ideal" without also using, "in my opinion".

And don't be absurd. I don't think the turtles should look like their cartoon counterparts of 1987, any more than I think the humans should look like their cartoon counterparts, in a live action film. I hate when CG calls attention to itself. It shouldn't ever feel un-real. If you can't do it with CG, then go back to Puppets.

Realism, requires actual realism, to be believed. Otherwise, don't do a live action movie, make it an animated affair and go nuts. Make it an all out anime, or CG the 87 verse, or the Mirage verse, or 2003, or something altogether new.

Just, don't put a 6ft ugly ass garbage pail kid shrek next to a human and expect me to buy it.

And if they insist on keeping the OT design in live action, then just do the damned OT design, in CG. Just under 5 feet tall, etc. if they're going to look like cartoons, may as well go the distance.

Of course, this is only my opinion. So, basically, long story short, you want them to go back to puppets? :lol: you think animatronics look realer than CGI? :-? hate to break it to you buddy, but where not living in the 80s anymore. I can personally assure you, that we will NEVER see puppets, like ever again.
And aww, too bad.. they didn't make them look like the incarnation of TMNT you grew up.. boo, hoo. they aren't using outdated effects like the one you grew up with! waahh!

The only thing I can agree with you on, is the fact that the physics were waaay off in the movie.

[Bry]

you think animatronics look realer than CGI? :-?

Uh, yes. I do, anyway. Because they are real. Puppets/animatronics automatically look like a part of their environment because they actually are.

Even the best CGI can still struggle with that - you can usually tell it's not in the same plane of existence. Often the CGI doesn't have a feeling of actual weight, the computer-created lighting doesn't match the natural on-set work, or the CGI creation doesn't look natural next to real-life actors. This happens even in the biggest-budget movies made today. I could sure tell in this movie, and I actually found it jarring.

And here's the thing. The push by the studios to go full-CGI so often instead of using puppets/animatronics, or a hybrid of the two? It's not because CGI is inherently superior - it's because it's cheaper and easier. And all that does is accommodate laziness.

hate to break it to you buddy, but where not living in the 80s anymore. I can personally assure you, that we will NEVER see puppets, like ever again.
And aww, too bad.. they didn't make them look like the incarnation of TMNT you grew up.. boo, hoo. they aren't using outdated effects like the one you grew up with! waahh!

The only thing I can agree with you on, is the fact that the physics were waaay off in the movie.

You're way too dismissive about proven technology. Just because it's "old" doesn't mean it's outdated or doesn't work anymore. And there's definitely an element of high-tech snobbery, with certain groups in the industry and with certain viewers, that writes off anything that isn't new and cutting-edge. But ask any filmmaker with genuine talent - sometimes the oldest tricks are still the most effective. Many filmmakers still use puppets and minatures instead of pure CGI, because often they just look better. How many movies use CGI blood-splatter effects that, to this day, look completely fake?

Ultimately these are all tools in the filmmaker's toolbox, and every one of them has a use where they work better than anything else does. Even if some aren't used as often, you will still need them at some point, and throwing them out because they're "outdated" is completely short-sighted.

[Leo656]

you think animatronics look realer than CGI?

They do... because they actually exist in a 3D space and don't look like a video game... the new movie has some serious Roger Rabbit ish going on. It's not the sole offender, but stuff that looks like sh*t is just stuff that looks like sh*t.

Bry hit it pretty well on. You're supposed to use whatever you have to in order to make the movie look as good as possible, not push a few buttons and call it a day just because That's How It's Done Now.

A mix of practical and computer effects will always look far superior to anything that's 99% CGI. Perfect example: Look how awesome the Lord of the Rings movies look, compared to how overwhelmingly sh***y the Hobbit movies look if you look at them side-by-side. Even the actors in the movies have been pretty vocal about that.

People have just accepted how prevalent it is because of that "this is how it's done now, we're never going back... like ever" attitude. That's bogus. It has nothing to do with what actually looks best. Studios just don't want to pay set designers, costume people, make-up artists, etc. CGI costs people jobs. For that reason alone I don't like how over-used it is. It has its place but that place is not everywhere.

[marcelangelo]

Uh, yes. I do, anyway. Because they are real. Puppets/animatronics automatically look like a part of their environment because they actually are.

Even the best CGI can still struggle with that - you can usually tell it's not in the same plane of existence. Often the CGI doesn't have a feeling of actual weight, the computer-created lighting doesn't match the natural on-set work, or the CGI creation doesn't look natural next to real-life actors. This happens even in the biggest-budget movies made today. I could sure tell in this movie, and I actually found it jarring.

And here's the thing. The push by the studios to go full-CGI so often instead of using puppets/animatronics, or a hybrid of the two? It's not because CGI is inherently superior - it's because it's cheaper and easier. And all that does is accommodate laziness.



You're way too dismissive about proven technology. Just because it's "old" doesn't mean it's outdated or doesn't work anymore. And there's definitely an element of high-tech snobbery, with certain groups in the industry and with certain viewers, that writes off anything that isn't new and cutting-edge. But ask any filmmaker with genuine talent - sometimes the oldest tricks are still the most effective. Many filmmakers still use puppets and minatures instead of pure CGI, because often they just look better. How many movies use CGI blood-splatter effects that, to this day, look completely fake?

Ultimately these are all tools in the filmmaker's toolbox, and every one of them has a use where they work better than anything else does. Even if some aren't used as often, you will still need them at some point, and throwing them out because they're "outdated" is completely short-sighted.

thank you, this was a great answer in my oppinion!someone who understands...

[Amaranthus]

So, basically, long story short, you want them to go back to puppets? :lol: you think animatronics look realer than CGI? :-? hate to break it to you buddy, but where not living in the 80s anymore. I can personally assure you, that we will NEVER see puppets, like ever again.
And aww, too bad.. they didn't make them look like the incarnation of TMNT you grew up.. boo, hoo. they aren't using outdated effects like the one you grew up with! waahh!

The only thing I can agree with you on, is the fact that the physics were waaay off in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBzpT7VmSaU

[DarkFell]

Costume / prosthetic creators, professional makeup people, professional prop weapon creators, ect. are also important. I think Leo mentioned LotR. Chronicles of Narnia also did the above that I mentioned. CGI was used in both movies but it wasn't "the main driving force." More examples are Jurassic Park and Terminator 2. *The Stan Winston crew made lifesize Terminator puppets inside the studio! They also built the JP dinos too.*

So I will also step in to say that the days of puppetering, and professionally creative costume design is far from numbered.

[Commenter 42]

So, basically, long story short, you want them to go back to puppets? :lol: you think animatronics look realer than CGI? :-? hate to break it to you buddy, but where not living in the 80s anymore. I can personally assure you, that we will NEVER see puppets, like ever again.
And aww, too bad.. they didn't make them look like the incarnation of TMNT you grew up.. boo, hoo. they aren't using outdated effects like the one you grew up with! waahh!



Um....

https://somenerdthing.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/1400681389000-jj-video-composite2.jpg?w=500&h=375

Anyway....

Buddy, don't call me Buddy, and don't condescend.

I actually didn't say go back to puppets, did I? Can you read at all?

I said "I hate when CG calls attention to itself. It shouldn't ever feel un-real. If you can't do it with CG, then go back to Puppets."

I have no problem with CG, I have massive problems with crappy renders to save time. I don't mind change, infact I welcome it. I do mind incompetence, and poor quality work.

I said, DON'T USE SH*TTY DESIGNS FROM A BUNCH OF SH*TTY ARTISTS.

Was I clear enough, BUDDY?

The only thing I can agree with you on, is the fact that the physics were waaay off in the movie.

It wasn't just the Physics that were way off, but at least you can admit that much. Most of the people who support the film can't.

[Leolead]

I'm not going waste my time.. there's no way I can argue with all of you at once

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

"Puppets" are still a big part of hollywood dude...even movies Like Pacific Rim and Transformers have on Screen Puppets for certain characters

[Leo656]

It's not an "argument", it's simply a matter of, "there's a right and wrong way to do things." There's a way to make things look good and a way to make them look crummy.

[B-Man]

Practical suits with CG-enhanced faces (to eliminate stiff robotic lip moment) would've been awesome.

[DarkFell]

Practical suits with CG-enhanced faces (to eliminate stiff robotic lip moment) would've been awesome.
Great facial prosthetics and makeup can also do the trick. :)

[IndigoErth]

Well.... this blew up. I shouldn't have slept in and then taken so long to log on, look at what I missed. :P

Yeah...somehow I doubt that anyone will ever win these arguments given the wide range of preferences that would probably belong to/in completely separate films... :ohwell:

Though I have to disagree with the "puppets" thing. Will we ever see it again for TMNT? Maybe not. (Or maybe... Someone with the ability to fund a movie they want to make in that style isn't exactly an impossibility and it's up to them if it's any good or not.) But I don't feel that it as a medium should be regarded as old technology that was replaced by CGI. It's a different medium of it's own. It itself may continue to evolve and improve - and it has over time - but I think to feel that it's replaced by entirely different mediums is like saying there would be no more paintings because sculpture was invented.

It may still be a long time before live action CGI can have the level of interaction those suits were capable of. Raph is so big compered to his actor, if April were to hug him she'd prob disappear within the rendered model... Would take some good acting to pull off a workable legit air hug.

Practical suits with CG-enhanced faces (to eliminate stiff robotic lip moment) would've been awesome.
Would be interesting to see tried out if someone out there has the talents to mesh that together in a way that works out right and isn't noticeable.


As for how human they look in this... Eh, I'm largely over that factor at this point, once the uncanny valley stopped feeling so uncomfortable, if it's how this set came out... ok... fine. HOWEVER, I do wish they'd at least use the movie to explain that a bit and not just act as if the mutagen acted as a magic growth serum. Explain why they appear so human, like, I dunno... trying to concoct something that would heal people "on a cellular level" happened to include human DNA within the attempted creation of it? And therefor say they're slightly partly human, in a round about way, and came out like they did...is that so hard? Cripe, even Nick took the time in their story to explain Nick Leo's voice change. Movie team, you shouldn't ignore this factor. (But if you let Pete voice Leo this time I'll give that a pass on explanations, that was more important for the series... )

[pennydreadful]

So, basically, long story short, you want them to go back to puppets? :lol: you think animatronics look realer than CGI? :-? hate to break it to you buddy, but where not living in the 80s anymore. I can personally assure you, that we will NEVER see puppets, like ever again.
And aww, too bad.. they didn't make them look like the incarnation of TMNT you grew up.. boo, hoo. they aren't using outdated effects like the one you grew up with! waahh!

The only thing I can agree with you on, is the fact that the physics were waaay off in the movie.

Yeah, look, ordinarily I'm loath to use a Cracked article to support an argument (as that site's really gone downhill lately), but this one is well-written enough and it raises a number of points which may help you to understand why practical effects have an edge on CG:

http://www.cracked.com/article_22000_5-surprising-things-you-learn-designing-movie-monsters.html

If you think that practical effects = bad/cheesy/unrealistic, no offense man, but you don't know much about movies, or haven't watched enough of them (at least, none older than 15 - 20 years ago).

Go watch The Fly, or the chestburster scene from the original Alien, or Independence Day, Gremlins, Hellraiser, Evil Dead. Horror films in particular helped to advance the field of special effects in a major way - you'd learn a lot from watching some of the older ones.

Even Pan's Labyrinth is a great example of how you can combine prosthetics, animatronics and CG to create the most lifelike creatures possible.

Videos under the spoiler for further discussion so I don't make the page load slowly:



NEAihk8QaVc

6ZoQdkJF4DE

Compare and contrast with:

5ZlOn9V_MmE

So once again, practical doesn't automatically equal bad, any more than CG automatically equals good and cutting edge.

[Galactus]

Y'know with all this talk of practical vs cgi it strikes me that Leibesman in one of those behind the scenes videos said he wanted to work in as much practical effects as possible on the movie before cutting to another interview where he talked how much cgi was in it and how great it is to do things that you could never do before. I wonder whoever edited that BTS video was secretly having a laugh by showing the director saying two completely opposite things back-to-back.

Of course we all know through most of the pimping of this movie they promoted the idea that the cgi was a great and allowed them to do things that the cumbersome rubber suits never could. One interview in particular I remember said they could never show a turtle flipping a truck before cgi except you actually could.

More importantly though that despite whatever restrictions the rubber suits supposedly has the motion capture cgi has one very big restriction; how much it costs. You can't show the turtles the stars for long. This is a problem even in Bay's Transformer's movies which he has a lot of money to play with but TMNT's meager budget by comparison it really shows. While there are times the cgi seems impressive there's more than a few times it just flat out doesn't look good. I praise them effects team for what was obviously a lot of work but they really bit off more than they could chew with six motion captured characters.

The worst part about it is how unnecessary it was. While I thought the actors playing the turtles were fine it's not like the script required them to show much acting range. Not to mention other BTS videos show they were overdoing their facial expressions and with what looks like last minute tinkering to make the faces a little more like what fans wanted as well altering Leonardo to look more like Johnny Knoxville it shows the justification that they wanted to show a real actors performance to be flimsy as hell.

(Heck the fact that most casual viewers praise the voices suggesting the thought the turtles were full cgi contracts really shows that the idea that these were real actors present on set didn't come across.)

While it's unlikely that they'll go with the Hellboy, WTWTA approach of suits with cgi to animate the faces and correct any parts the suits look rubbery really that's the best option. A common complaint even amongst those who enjoyed the movie was the lack of focus on the turtles and that's not going to change with two additional motion captured characters and should really put a damper on the idea the sequel will correct problems or be better than the movie we got.

[Myko]

To be honest, the old rubber suits looked worse in places and better in places. The CGI looked better in places and worse in places. I'd say it ultimately doesn't matter too much if the movie is good in other areas.

TMNT1990 overcomes the occasional shoddiness of the puppets with a strong story, good characterization and great atmosphere.

The CGI in 2014 doesn't overcome the flaws of that film, but don't really detract from it either, since there's not much to detract from. Hell, the CGI is probably the best part of the film.

[Ville Leskinen]

The reasoning for NOT using suits to me seems backwords; they said that they couldn't do this stuff with suits. I don't think I need to see TMNT jumping from a rooftop to an open sewer and sliding down the drain. Nor sliding down the mountain. Nor any kind of sliding. They're ninjas. They don't slide.

Also the 1990 movie had far more ninja-esque fighting and they WERE using rubber suits.
So rubber suits = more restrictions on sliding = better TMNT movie. :lol:

[Leolead]

I will admit, the new Turtles movement was pretty damn restricted. but that doesn't change the fact that they looked 10x better and more realistic than the 1990 rubber suits. (I say this as a fan of the 1990 movie)
You guys need to stop living in your nostalgia bubbles and get with the times!

[Bry]

I will admit, the new Turtles movement was pretty damn restricted. but that doesn't change the fact that they looked 10x better and more realistic than the 1990 rubber suits. (I say this as a fan of the 1990 movie)

Define "realistic". Because while the facial movements were more expressive with the CGI Turtles, at times they were overly expressive compared to natural acting; there was very little subtlety to it and their expressions could be pretty cartoony. The CGI Turtles were more detailed, but they weren't naturally detailed; they stuck out against the actual, natural characters they shared the screen with. And at no point did they look like they were actually a part of that environment to me - they looked like animation edited in, because that's exactly what they were. (Additionally, the whole visual style was over the top - highly contrasted and filtered with obnoxious camerawork. None of this helps things look "realistic".)

The 1990 suits had some restrictions, sure. But they absolutely looked like they were part of their environment. They blended far better than the CGI Turtles did, and the action choreography and stunt work in those suits holds up quite well to this day. Which is exactly how you sell the characters and their world. The 1990 movie just did it better. Sorry.

You guys need to stop living in your nostalgia bubbles and get with the times!

Okay, listen. We've addressed this, at length, and you didn't bother replying to any of the very valid points people gave you. This is a dismissive attitude. New isn't automatically "better" and old isn't automatically "worse". It's not nostalgia - some things just work better than others in certain situations.

Honestly, the original plan for a new movie (before Laird sold the rights) had the best idea - with actors in detailed suits like the 1990 movie, but using CGI for the faces, touch-ups and extra expression. Using both tools for an all-around better result.

[Powder]

I will admit, the new Turtles movement was pretty damn restricted. but that doesn't change the fact that they looked 10x better and more realistic than the 1990 rubber suits. (I say this as a fan of the 1990 movie)
You guys need to stop living in your nostalgia bubbles and get with the times!

I literally feel pain reading this post.

[Ville Leskinen]

You guys need to stop living in your nostalgia bubbles and get with the times!

How does this happen? Should I stop liking the parts of the early TMNT franchise? I've always been a fan of practical effects. I'm fine with you liking the new movie. Or CGI or whatever "get with the times" means.

http://m.cdn.blog.hu/sm/smokingbarrels/image/lebowski1.jpg

[marcelangelo]

you should not forget how an effective lighting has influence on the feel of a movie...the new movie had a very abstract, unrealistic lighting in its scenes...always a digital flare in everything.and I always asked myself what they were thinking when working on the light...it seems sometimes to just lighting to distract from the cgi creatures...of course in this piece the lighting is created on a computer, too..aaaah, its so sad;(dont know what else to write...

[Autbot_Benz]

I just wanna say LeoLead does not speak for all people who like the 2014 movie. Stay in your nostalgia bubble all you want its fine to like the old and the new.

[IndigoErth]

always a digital flare in everything.and I always asked myself what they were thinking when working on the light
Yeah, I don't get all the lens flare use. I'd read Bay was big on them but was not overly familiar with his films and then saw in this movie just how true it was.

Lens flare may be a fun touch to add to the right things, esp if you're just an image or video hobbyist at home, but what does it try to convey in this film? That the Turtles are on a reality tv show and there is always someone there with a camera on them? It's like an attempt at breaking the 4th wall, but fails since it reminds us we're seeing through a camera... even when the lens flare is faked.

I don't think I need to see TMNT jumping from a rooftop to an open sewer and sliding down the drain. Nor sliding down the mountain. Nor any kind of sliding. They're ninjas. They don't slide.
:lol:

Meanwhile in my head there is the image of Raph climbing to the top of a playground slide, it buckles and collapses under his weight and he sits there like https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qnL8d3MU_Vo/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAs/jLus3H0qqbk/photo.jpg?sz=50

[Leolead]

Let's get this thread back on topic; do you want any changes to the PD designs in TMNT 2?

[TrickOrTreater]

Let's get this thread back on topic; do you want any changes to the PD designs in TMNT 2?

Yes. Complete overhaul design wise.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

http://static.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/51ce6099e4b0d911b4489b79/53a8ba07e4b04d8e78aa97b1/1403567474374/leonardo-character-poster-for-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-preview.jpg

I didn't really pay enough attention to the movie to notice if Leo's face actually looked like that, but if it did then they should change that. He just looks silly.

[Commenter 42]

Yes. Complete overhaul design wise.


Top to bottom, front to back, then retcon the first film.

[pennydreadful]

I will admit, the new Turtles movement was pretty damn restricted. but that doesn't change the fact that they looked 10x better and more realistic than the 1990 rubber suits. (I say this as a fan of the 1990 movie)

Opinion, not fact.

You guys need to stop living in your nostalgia bubbles and get with the times!

... seriously?

You know what these types of conversations are like? They're like trying to reason with The Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Even when you've been soundly defeated, you still think that you're the champion of the battlefield.

zKhEw7nD9C4

I literally feel pain reading this post.

You're not alone. Want some of my Advil?

Let's get this thread back on topic; do you want any changes to the PD designs in TMNT 2?

Yes. The designs are off-putting, overly busy and clunky - plenty of people have said that from the start. It won't happen though - they'll make enough changes to their outfits to be able to sell some new toys, but we'll still be stuck with the faces, the enormous builds and the oversized shells.

[TrickOrTreater]

Top to bottom, front to back, then retcon the first film.

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[IndigoErth]

I didn't really pay enough attention to the movie to notice if Leo's face actually looked like that, but if it did then they should change that. He just looks silly.
This movie... I dunno, it varies. Ranging imo from straight up "egads" (run away!) to...in the right few scenes edging into dare I say a little cute, or at least cuter by comparison.

Case in point... that end scene with the van, he's doing the Mikey grin and that lighting isn't doing him or anyone any favors (run away!!) - http://wpc.556e.edgecastcdn.net/80556E/img.news/NE2lRXjIejag56_1_7.jpg

Nooo no no.

On the flip side, this is one of my complete fave (cropped, link my FB page) shots of him (hug to death) - https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10264282_10203567025288898_2414756327414787203_n.j pg?oh=5028465dbc239aa6ba5c06f44d913843&oe=54CA31DC

Also love - https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1920542_858818187485535_1433193831007053016_n.jpg? oh=0b571f1404f4d4011d24ff4d67a413b1&oe=556B7051
Angles (imo) look way better on them than straight on, he's got a pretty good profile and only from the side can you really see that he's a bit snoutier compared to the others and is a better look than straight on in most cases. Straight on just looks so...flat. The natural lighting helps, too. (Though I'm surprised he can fit in the truck cab, in some scenes he looks like he'd be too big to... Ladies and gentlemen, the incredible shrinking Leo; also does this in elevators.)

If they change nothing about them, which I doubt they'd do anyhow... at least be mindful of the 'photo composition' and lighting.

[syk_skillz]

Only ways I can think of a explanation of a slimmer smaller redesign (which I really want) is to have turtles sick at begging of film do to changes happening with the mutation in there system, which would be easier to explain if Raph also had it drained from him in first movie, or Splinter has them to lose muscle mass to be able more ninja like.

I haven't read through the full thread yet so sorry if I missed other suggestions.

[Leolead]

Sorry if I offended anyone... I'm just not in a very happy place right now. (Life is a bitch sometimes)

[pennydreadful]

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Game over, man. Game over. :lol:

[Leo656]

They're just so BIG, I can't stand how much they look like Gamera. I've actually envisioned them being around 6'-ish feet tall but not so Huge all over. I hate that. They seriously just look like four Hulks.

I hate the outfits to death as well, I'm not a fan of them "needing" to wear clothes in the first place (as the whole "they want to be people" thing goes strongly against a lot of stuff that's been established about them elsewhere in the fiction, but whatever, different debate), but the outfits chosen for this movie were atrocious, especially Donnie's Ghostbuster cosplay nonsense.

And I'unno about anything else, but "nostalgia bubble" is one of those terms where, when I see/hear it, I know that I never have to take anything that person says seriously ever again. It's like, POV 1: "Thesis/opinion, supporting facts, expansive details, anecdotal evidence, summation/closing statement." POV 2: "Whatever dude, Nostalgia Bubble".

Y'know, just in case anyone was wondering what makes any person's opinion carry more weight, or at least makes a person have more credibility.

[Leolead]

Bringing this thread back.
So now that Casey has been cast, and he's human-sized, do you think they'll tone down the Turtles physiques?

[IndigoErth]

Doubtful. No doubt too costly to bother tinkering with that at this point. Still wish they'd at least let up on the shell size a little though.

Although they could pay more attention to how big the Turtles look in some scenes... maybe it's just the settings, but I swear it might be a little inconstant.

At least Casey isn't CGI I guess.

Oh and just random thought about the nostrils. (Thanks for bumping so I had a place to mention it. lol) As much as that took a while to get used to... You know how fingers and nostrils tend to be a compatible size? lol Have you seen the hands on these Turtles? It could have been worse, right? We're at least saved from Mikey sitting there with his finger up his nose because he'd need big cow nostrils to accomplish that. :tlol:

[pennydreadful]

No - I really don't see any changes happening. Like Indigo said - at this stage of the game, it would be too expensive. Not to mention it'd basically be admitting there was something wrong with the designs in the first place, which Bay's ego won't allow.

[TurtleTitan97]

Bringing this thread back.
So now that Casey has been cast, and he's human-sized, do you think they'll tone down the Turtles physiques?

I'm 110% certain they won't.

[TrickOrTreater]

Bringing this thread back.
So now that Casey has been cast, and he's human-sized, do you think they'll tone down the Turtles physiques?

Nope.

Why bother trying to make it make sense NOW when even Megan Fox held her own next to them.

They don't care.

[Leolead]

I guess they're too far into the game now. but still, how the heck is Casey suppose to keep up with these Turtles?

[Shark_Blade]

The Transformers have different designs in each movie right? Pretty certain the turtles would too.

[TigerClaw]

The Transformers have different designs in each movie right? Pretty certain the turtles would too.
Or maybe they will just have different clothing on.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, the clothing/gear or accessories maybe, all over design, no. Cost, time, and big difference between otherworldly robots and mutant Turtles that live in NYC that we're supposed to believe live among us.

If they don't change what the Turtles are wearing I'll be surprised. At the very least, well... merchandise. Have to have reason to sell a new set of figures.

[TigerClaw]

Yeah, the clothing/gear or accessories maybe, all over design, no. Cost, time, and big difference between otherworldly robots and mutant Turtles that live in NYC that we're supposed to believe live among us.

If they don't change what the Turtles are wearing I'll be surprised. At the very least, well... merchandise. Have to have reason to sell a new set of figures.
They would also need to change Donnie's gear as well, He's been carrying that backpack throughout the movie, If its some battery pack, Maybe he found a way to make it smaller.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Tone down the "NERD" outfit for Donny. Seriously, lose either the goggles or glasses and kill the stupid Ghostbusters proton-pack.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, they could get rid of all that. You would think some of Donnie's stuff would have gotten fried when electrocuted in the first one anyhow. If they need a reason, there's one.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I actually really like the Turtles all having a lot of personalized accessories and styles, but Donnie is just too "NERD" because Michael Bay doesn't understand subtlety at all.

That, and honestly... I really don't like the idea of Raph in a Tarzan loincloth. Maybe black biker pants instead, I dunno. Whatever.

[IndigoErth]

Agree. Never minded them wearing stuff. (Turtle sneakers... adorable.) Certain film people only seem to understand overdoing things though. Guess there is a belief of "go big or go home." Keeping my finger crossed that any changes don't make the amount worse. Or overdo Leo and Raph, they had an appropriate amount last time (imo).

The nerd thing with Donnie... :roll: And it's a shame, because he's a better looking character without the glasses. If he's going to have glasses, let the guy make himself some kind of snazzy rimless frames or something. He can create so much, surely he can make himself a prescription. (Or April, just hook him up with contacts, I'm sure it's better for the fights.)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Agree. Never minded them wearing stuff. (Turtle sneakers... adorable.) Certain film people only seem to understand overdoing things though. Guess there is a belief of "go big or go home." Keeping my finger crossed that any changes don't make the amount worse. Or overdo Leo and Raph, they had an appropriate amount last time (imo).

The nerd thing with Donnie... :roll: And it's a shame, because he's a better looking character without the glasses. If he's going to have glasses, let the guy make himself some kind of snazzy rimless frames or something. He can create so much, surely he can make himself a prescription.

Contact lenses.

[Leo656]

Really no need for any of them to have those clothes or "accessories" in the first place, since they're not people and thus have no "need" to cover themselves. I think what annoys me second-most about it (besides how ugly the "outfits" are), is how it just reeks of some studio hack over-thinking things. "Hmmm... why are they 'naked'? I'm not comfortable with that..." Like, it's never been a problem, and now it's this whole thing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Really no need for any of them to have those clothes or "accessories" in the first place, since they're not people and thus have no "need" to cover themselves. I think what annoys me second-most about it (besides how ugly the "outfits" are), is how it just reeks of some studio hack over-thinking things. "Hmmm... why are they 'naked'? I'm not comfortable with that..." Like, it's never been a problem, and now it's this whole thing.

In my experience, siblings may love each other but will often do what they can to distinguish themselves from each other. One way of doing that is personal style. If the Turtles want to pimp their styles, it doesn't bother me.

[Leo656]

In your experience, are your siblings mutant reptiles who were raised in a sewer? :lol:

I mean, my cat had four litters and gave birth to somwhere around 20 kittens in a lifetime, and I never saw any of them start trying to "distinguish" themselves by wearing a proton pack or ill-fitting sweatpants. :lol:

I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.

Saying again, I'm 99% sure it was a studio thing, not a "way to show their individuality" thing. That was tacked on later, I'd guess, way way after the "Why don't they wear any pants?" conversation.

As for how much it "bothers" me, it probably wouldn't as much if the designs they settles on weren't so damned hideous.

[Matt2310]

i feel like they gave each turtle their own persona and equipment because as the movies come together they are going to start to realize they are more alike and start getting rid of all the gear until they look like the turtles we expect

[Leo656]

i feel like they gave each turtle their own persona and equipment because as the movies come together they are going to start to realize they are more alike and start getting rid of all the gear until they look like the turtles we expect

Nah, if anything, they're going to keep adding to it, because they have toys to sell.

Mark my words, dawg, if they're not wearing mech armor at some point in Part Two, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will in Part Three. :lol:

[IndigoErth]

I assume some of it may partly be due to the designers choosing to go with a largely human form, sans turtley bits. While their clothing/gear differs, they made of point of covering all of their backsides, which perhaps it was a better choice than trying to figure out how to be realistic and appropriate at the same time, rather than end up with awkwardly, realistically, otherwise 'humanish' bare assed Turtles. Give them a little coverage around there and I guess it opens it up to having to make it make sense otherwise.


In my perspective, I do look at them as people; not human (or not quite), but beings that have met humans on about the same level and about the same level as humans in 'being animals.' (Though I'm sure that is a topic that could open up an endless multi-person debate because perspective and preferences clearly do vary. Though the differences of perspective could be an interesting discussion if kept civil and no debate over who's right or wrong. As if that could ever happen.)

[Commenter 42]

I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.




I honestly couldn't have said it better. perfect answer. This is the main stumbling block of most people. They always posit that Turtles are just monstrous ugly people, and I don't think that was ever the intent. Sure Bebop and Rocksteady were humans, who have since been mutated. They would cling to any human attributes that remain. They would be desperate to retain their individuality, or just the idea of self. That I can get behind. The turtles? no.

They are sentient animals. If you watch Dawn of the Planet of the apes, though the apes at times adopt some human attributes, they also take great pains to distance themselves from humanity, as they are simply not human, and don't wish to be.

The clothing is only a symptom of the deeper problem of how these "artists" are approaching the characterization. They don't understand what they are designing.

The designs should be overhauled 100%. in a cartoon, they can look like smiley faced green men. it's a stylized representation of reality. In reality, they need to look like actual turtles if we're going to invest in them as part of the real world.

[Leo656]

((Bro Fist)) :lol:

Welp, my thinking is, "They were mostly-isolated for about 15 years and only really interacted with human fairly recently, so no, their thought processes, wants, needs, feelings, etc. would in no way resemble those of human beings." Why would they? They weren't humans-turned-animals, they were animals-turned-humanoid. That's where I approach it from. And I've never been sold on the idea that having a higher intelligence and the ability to speak would suddenly lead to wanting to do things like "wear clothes because people do". Eat their food and watch their TV, yeah, but someone who went decades never wearing shoes isn't going to suddenly do so just because they saw it on TV, y'know?

I'unno. They have shells, they're covered, they're fine. The rest, just seems like a Solution in search of a Problem. Mutants who were humans-turned-animals, I can see at least wanting to wear clothes, even if it would be impractical for them at that point or whatever. Thinking in terms of animals-turned-humanoid, though, it really seems more, "Why bother?" Like, I can see Rocksteady wearing pants out of habit because he always did "before". Mikey, on the other hand, would find it unnecessary and impractical.

[Commenter 42]

which would be infinitly more interesting. As time goes on, the impracticality of being clothed for B&R might set in,(Like in Archie where they eventually go naked) or perhaps they go the other way and feel the need to cover their mutation more and more out of sheer self loathing. That's interesting. On the one side you have the turtles perfectly comfortable in their own skin, and owning who they are.

The first time I saw Avatar in the Theater, The Nav'i were really jarring to look at. Giant blue skinned cats running around - weird proportions etc. at first, you don't quite know what to make of them.

But hours later, as we left the theater, and my eyes had been bombarded with these lanky feline characters, I realised that as I looked around at all the patrons in the lobby, it struck me how odd they appeared. All these pink and brown piggish creatures. Short and distortedly stout.

I'd imagine, after 14 years of looking at other turtle faces (or rat faces) you might be a little specie-ist, and humans would look impossibly odd to the turtles.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

This is the main stumbling block of most people. They always posit that Turtles are just monstrous ugly people, and I don't think that was ever the intent.

This is the TMNT movie/TV show I wanna see. One where the turtles themselves, after being exposed to the human world, begin to wonder if they have a place in it - are they human, because they walk and talk and feel - or are they just soulless animals who by happy accident have human attributes?

And there doesn't have to be a definite answer. Some of the turtles can feel strongly one way, others another. They can leave it up to the audience to decide.

In terms of design changes - they'll probably cram as many new costumes in as they can so that they can sell more toys. Even the deleted scenes from the last movie got toys.

[Leo656]

That'd be an interesting idea to roll with. Never see it in this franchise, but yeah, that's an idea.

Like, this is the stuff you think about when you look at TMNT even one millimeter below the surface, and that's what's always interested me the most about it. There's a lot of emotional and psychological things you can explore and play with.

But nah, pizza puns and fart jokes. Way more "fun", way more interesting.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

In your experience, are your siblings mutant reptiles who were raised in a sewer? :lol:

I mean, my cat had four litters and gave birth to somwhere around 20 kittens in a lifetime, and I never saw any of them start trying to "distinguish" themselves by wearing a proton pack or ill-fitting sweatpants. :lol:

I guess it comes down to, "Do the Turtles see themselves as animals, or as humans?" To me, it's always been pretty clear that they do not think of themselves as humans; despite enjoying some aspects of human "culture", they're animals, and animals, by and large, despise wearing clothes. So, that's how I approach it. I can see how some people are using "They WANT to be people!" as their approach, but I'll be honest, it doesn't make sense or seem in any way organic or "realistic", to me.

Saying again, I'm 99% sure it was a studio thing, not a "way to show their individuality" thing. That was tacked on later, I'd guess, way way after the "Why don't they wear any pants?" conversation.

As for how much it "bothers" me, it probably wouldn't as much if the designs they settles on weren't so damned hideous.

As much as I wish my experience involved that, no... t'was not to be.

I've always seen the Turtles as having a two-toed foot in each world, that of animal and that of human. This view has been supported by Mirage, and I've never seen the contrary. So as part of embracing their dual nature, knowing they have no true home in either, they take on human culture. Pop music, food, movies, and lately some clothing. Works for me anyway...

[Commenter 42]

It kills me that most people don't see it. they can asign all sorts of paethos to Spider-man, Batman etc. but the minute you lead a book with non-humans, it becomes a big joke, with nothing viable to explore.

I don't get it, and hope fully, these last few posts help some of the pro-movie folks get the other side of the equation.

If GOT had been brought to the screen as a surface, brainless adaptation, I would have written it off immediately as another stupid fantasy series, and paid no mind. thankfully, we got show runners who gave a damn, and produced some of the finest television to date.

Better Call Saul could be another procedural lawyer drama, given it's premise. Instead, it's one of the most impressive shows on air, in my opinion, ever.

Verisimilitude folks. It's the life blood of fantasy.

[Leo656]

I can and do see the other stuff, but with their body types and physiology, I truly think that, for them, wearing clothes would just be a hassle. Like, turtles along with other animals don't need clothing because their shells and their biology takes care of everything (and I'm sure there are many people on the board who can explain it much better than I can). They don't serve any function. I can't imagine that it would be comfortable after years and years of living otherwise. I can't get into that headspace where it would be in any way practical for them. Just seems forced.

42: Big Bonus Points for using one of my very favorite $10 words. :lol:

[Commenter 42]

42: Big Bonus Points for using one of my very favorite $10 words. :lol:

Donner knows best. :)

[Leo656]

Not about nicknames.

Seriously, who insists on being called "Dick"? :lol:

[Commenter 42]

Maybe he's compensating?

[Leo656]

I imagine it's like, "Ahh, I just really like saying 'Dick'," and the rest is just trolling people. "I wanna see how many people I can force to say it, like librarians and little old ladies." :lol:

Dude smokes mad weed, so who knows? :lol:

[Commenter 42]

Donner's a stoner? Hunh.

I once knew the guy who (according to him) was hired to supply the leads of the first film with party supplies. He said the animosity between Reeve and Kidder was unbearable.

Apparently, in those days it was a below the line budget item.

[Leo656]

I don't have any of it handy, but I've read several books that detail Donner and the others smoking mad joints at writing meetings during pre-production of the first "Superman" film. So there's that.

And now that it's no longer "too soon", it's coming out more and more that the animosity between Chris Reeve and pretty much "Everybody" was unbelievable. Turns out the guy had a huge ego and treated most everyone like crap from Day One, until he got hurt, at which point he became a "living saint" in people's eyes, mostly through his activism, which was fueled mostly through little more than self-interest.

Kind of a downer. :ohwell: He looked good in the suit, though, so... we'll always have that.

[Commenter 42]

I don't have any of it handy, but I've read several books that detail Donner and the others smoking mad joints at writing meetings during pre-production of the first "Superman" film. So there's that.

And now that it's no longer "too soon", it's coming out more and more that the animosity between Chris Reeve and pretty much "Everybody" was unbelievable. Turns out the guy had a huge ego and treated most everyone like crap from Day One, until he got hurt, at which point he became a "living saint" in people's eyes, mostly through his activism, which was fueled mostly through little more than self-interest.

Kind of a downer. :ohwell: He looked good in the suit, though, so... we'll always have that.

Well apparently Hackman and Kidder were heavy users, but Reeve didn't partake. My friend did say the he was arrogant and off putting. Then again, maybe when you're the only one sober while everyone else is putting their paycheck up their noses, you might be perceived as a douche.

Still the best Supes no matter what.

[jenna]

Changes I would like to see to the designs:

1) smaller, slimmer, sleeker - more credible as ninjas
2) Raphael's body dimensions - his arms and shoulders were so big he was comically disproportionate
3) lose the lips -too human
4) Mike and Raph's nostrils slightly further apart, like Don and Leo. Nostrils so close gave them an overly human appearance

[Shark_Blade]

Raph's toothpick should be removed lol.

[IndigoErth]

Raph's toothpick should be removed lol.
That's not easy to give up, he'll prob need to use a toothpick patch for a while.

4) Mike and Raph's nostrils slightly further apart, like Don and Leo. Nostrils so close gave them an overly human appearance
Yeah, I prefer the wider nose, the narrowness on Raph and Mikey just looks look puppy-ish or something to me actually. I swear Raph's got a little bulldog DNA mixed in there somewhere. lol

[Powder]

Did Raph even have the toothpick in the movie? I've more or less wiped my memory banks of all traces.

[TigerClaw]

I think they are gonna stay the same, Except they will probably have different clothing this time. I hope Donnie's backpack is smaller this time, If that thing was a battery pack, Maybe he found a way to make it smaller.

[Shiro Kame]

Considering almost 2 1/2 years have passed chronologically (I figured it out when on the season finale of Season 2 when Casey stated that Season 1's finale happened a year ago), I would like to see some signs of physical maturity to show that April and Casey are becoming young adults (April's like 18 now considering at the start of Season 1 she was 16)

[Technogeek29]

:D:D:D:D:D

I honestly don't see this bomb being disabled. Its like a doomsday machine. Who designs a way for a doomsday bomb to be disabled?:lol: And that's these turtles designs for me. They can only get more absurd Out of the Shadows would've been fine. just touch ups to add more of a realistic feel.

[jenna]

That's not easy to give up, he'll prob need to use a toothpick patch for a while.


Yeah, I prefer the wider nose, the narrowness on Raph and Mikey just looks look puppy-ish or something to me actually. I swear Raph's got a little bulldog DNA mixed in there somewhere. lol

LOL on all counts! :)

Did Raph even have the toothpick in the movie? I've more or less wiped my memory banks of all traces.

Yes, he did. He sort of chewed on it like some stress-relief implement. I didn't hate it actually - it seemed fitting for his character - although I did wonder once or twice how he managed to keep hold of it (buried under rubble, flying upside down towards a Hummer etc)... It was the impossibly durable sun glasses all over again.

[IndigoErth]

Think that scar by his lip is actually toothpick related? lol

[jenna]

Think that scar by his lip is actually toothpick related? lol

:lol: That must be it!

[graphic_content]

:lol: That must be it!

there are some angles where his face is shot, and the toothpick looks like a second lip scar.

its just needs to go IMO. and the ray-bans too.

[IndigoErth]

Knowing these film makers, if they got rid of it they'd probably just upgrade it to a crazy straw. :P Gotta have something to chew on, they don't know how else to portray him as tough.

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

i d like my cute cgi turtles back, n the beautiful bromance between leo n raph n a as promised more focused on the brotherhood between mike n don in the sequel.

[Klunk1234]

I would reduce their high and their bulkiness since they are ninja, not bodybuilders. Out with those lips; their shells positioned as they look in the cartoon series, not too high like in the movie. Out with the nostrils. About Donnie, I will remove all those gadgets attached to his shell and those Steve Urkel glasses. I will give him nice glasses to use them when he is working on his lab and for going to patrols, he can use contact lenses.

And the Shredder, he is a Ninja warrior, not Megatron.

[Jester]

i d like my cute cgi turtles back, n the beautiful bromance between leo n raph n a as promised more focused on the brotherhood between mike n don in the sequel.
Why do you care if they're cute? They are turtles and shuld stick with each.....oh.....you do mention the bromance....my mistake.

[pennydreadful]

Ah, but Jester - it's not just a bromance, it's a beautiful bromance! :tlol:

[IndigoErth]

Dies laughing.

Trollio... think I'll help the Turtles get a retraining order from you.

[Donny's computer84]

I would make them a little bit smaller in size and their faces be more like the 2003 Turtles. The Shredder be a little less robotic than he is. Maybe not so much equipment on Donny, also no glasses. :)

[Wolfie65]

Pretty much agree with the above, they should come to about April's shoulder, not tower over her, juice freak physique does a Ninja no good whatsoever, lean & limber does the job much better, shells too high, faces too flat. Why does Leo need chest armor? Maybe someone took the 'half shell' quip a little too seriously.