Ain't it strange that there are three TV shows called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

[neatoman]

So something I noticed, all three TMNT cartoons are simply titled "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".

Well OK the last two seasons of the 2003 show had subtitles and the Nickelodeon one might get subtitles later on, but niether one got a different title just to differentiate it from the others right away. Only one TMNT show has an altered title Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation but nobody wants to admit it exists...

It's never been a TMNT cartoon that started out with a title like, for example, "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Heroes in a Halfshell", or "The NEW Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", or "Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", or "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shellshock", or "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Plastron Café". It's always just been "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".

Usually that's the case when there are more than one show in a franchise...

[oldmanwinters]

It is a bit unusual. But I like it that way. The franchise title is catchy enough regardless of how often it gets rehashed.

[Wesley]

Well, in the UK and Ireland, the OT was called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles most of the time (the cartoon was referred to as Ninja Turtles in Ireland for season one and the first two episodes of two). Otherwise, each new show has the same name. I think it can be confusing at times, since there isn't an easy way to differentiate the shows, except with fanmade terms like 1987 and 2003.

[Candy Kappa]

haven't really thought too much about it. But, yes. It is a bit odd, although the title is very unique and already quite the mouthful. SO adding more to the show's title might be a bit excessive.

Would be cool if a future show was named "Tales of the TMNT"

[ABrown]

Well isn't the full name of the Nick series "Nickelodeon Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles"?.?.?

[Creativemind]

It is a bit unusual. But I like it that way. The franchise title is catchy enough regardless of how often it gets rehashed.

This 1000 times. Right on.

[Leo656]

Yeah, it's too long already. You could shorten it to "TMNT" and add a subtitle but that's kind of ambiguous. The basic name says it all, you don't need anything else.

[pannoni1]

Absolutely not these days given there are multiple Hawaii Five-O's, Mickey Mouse Clubs, He-Man, GI Joes, Doctor Whos, Law & Orders, certain incarnations of game shows, and soon another Odd Couple. It's just the TV version of the movie remake. Yes, some shows have different subtitles, but others don't. That said, we did have The Next Mutation which was something news (even without the Teenage and Mutant in the title).

[CyberCubed]

He's right, every time there's a new Batman cartoon its named something new:

- Batman: TAS
- Batman Beyond
- The Batman
- Brave and the Bold
- Beware the Batman

X-men as well:

- X-men (90's)
- X-men Evolution
- Wolverine and the X-men

Spiderman: TAS
Spiderman Unlimited
Spectacular Spiderman
Ultimate Spiderman


Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles keeps the same name.

[IndigoErth]

I'm wondering when it became popular to tack something on to the title. I was never a viewer, but I feel like Power Rangers started it with all their many versions. Maybe I'm wrong.

I dunno, I don't really find it odd that the Turtles might always have the same title, though I guess it may be confusing to fans that missed the first series or two and aren't familiar yet with how far back it goes.

[Creativemind]

I really don't care for subtitles.

[AleXviD]

Spiderman: TAS


But it doesn't say TAS in the cartoon. Instead it's just Spider-Man in the 60s, Spider-Man in the 80s, Spider-Man in the 90s and even in early 20XX it still was just Spider-Man (the MTV one).

So three TMNT cartoons all with same name aren't that unique in that regard.

[Garfield]

So something I noticed, all three TMNT cartoons are simply titled "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".

Well OK the last two seasons of the 2003 show had subtitles and the Nickelodeon one might get subtitles later on, but niether one got a different title just to differentiate it from the others right away. Only one TMNT show has an altered title Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation but nobody wants to admit it exists...

It's never been a TMNT cartoon that started out with a title like, for example, "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Heroes in a Halfshell", or "The NEW Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", or "Tales of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", or "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shellshock", or "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Plastron Café". It's always just been "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles".

Usually that's the case when there are more than one show in a franchise...


I don't find that so strange. its just what the source material is called so they went back with that. But don't forget about Ninja turtles: THe Next Mutation, though that wasn't a cartoon.

Yeah, it's too long already. You could shorten it to "TMNT" and add a subtitle but that's kind of ambiguous. The basic name says it all, you don't need anything else.

I think you could just shorten it to "Ninja Turtles" that's way less winded than "TMNT" and its simple and explains enough of what it is, also you don't have to keep them just as teenagers if they ever want to do an interpretation that goes away from that.

[Leo656]

I doubt any "mainstream" version ever will, though. Every time they get too far past adapting the origin, the "Big" Shredder confrontation, and the Baxter/Mousers stuff, they run out of ideas and just start throwing stuff at the wall to pad out the rest of the run.

Maybe the comics could someday advance past them being teenagers, but I doubt any of the cartoons will ever allow them to really "grow up". They're always going to mostly work off of those few basic plots with some filler thrown in between.

[CyberCubed]

Most TMNT cartoons tend to end or "wane" right around the point the Turtles defeat Shredder for good. They also exhaust the supply of villains since aside from creating random new mutants there really aren't many "big" recurring TMNT villains to begin with.

[Leo656]

The problem with TV, specifically cartoons, is that there even needs to be "villains" and physical conflict in every single episode in order to keep people interested. I'm personally just as interested in the Turtles' emotional conflicts, personality conflicts, trying to find their place in the world, etc. But that doesn't make for very interesting viewing for kids. Always has to be someone to punch.

I mean, I get it, it's just the limitations of the medium. There's very little room to do "smaller" or more intimate stories because every half-hour needs to be "action-packed" to both keep the kids entertained and sell more toys.

That's why comics are honestly a better storytelling medium for a concept like TMNT. You can do a LOT more than just "Good Guy vs. Bad Guy" stories.

[Xav]

Maybe the comics could someday advance past them being teenagers, but I doubt any of the cartoons will ever allow them to really "grow up". Don't the Mirage comics show the turtles as adults in later volumes?

[Leo656]

Yeah, Mirage Vol. 4 but I try and forget about that series because it was basically Ambien in print form.

[oldmanwinters]

One other thing that is somewhat unique to the TMNT is the fact that every show theme song tries explicitly to work the Tee-nage-Mu-tant-Nin-ja-Tur-tles syllables into the actual musical beats. In some sense, that's a feature the franchise shares with Superman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNh23yRiJc) themes. The name of the title characters is referenced in the beats of the actual music.

[ProactiveMan]

The problem with TV, specifically cartoons, is that there even needs to be "villains" and physical conflict in every single episode in order to keep people interested. I'm personally just as interested in the Turtles' emotional conflicts, personality conflicts, trying to find their place in the world, etc. But that doesn't make for very interesting viewing for kids. Always has to be someone to punch.

I mean, I get it, it's just the limitations of the medium. There's very little room to do "smaller" or more intimate stories because every half-hour needs to be "action-packed" to both keep the kids entertained and sell more toys.

That's why comics are honestly a better storytelling medium for a concept like TMNT. You can do a LOT more than just "Good Guy vs. Bad Guy" stories.

I mostly agree, but on the other hand, I've grown a little tired of the ponderous emotional lives of 'superheros' on TV. I feel like there should be a balance between excitement and drama, otherwise you end up with the same mundane exploration of life as every other show. I don't want to tune in to see Superman worry about his mortgage.

I feel like this happens on TV a lot, probably because drama is cheaper than action.

[Leo656]

Fair point, but you can do more with the idea in TMNT since there's much more room to play with the whole "freaks and outcasts" themes than with some other characters. Beyond that, with a group, you can do a lot of stories just about how X interacts with Y, if you wanted to, and that could also be very interesting. You don't JUST have to have them fight someone every week. You can take a lot of "mundane" ideas much further and in more directions than you can with some other characters/franchises.

Again, that doesn't make for the most interesting TV, but as I said before, "limitations of the medium".

[CyberCubed]

The problem is people always get sick of the stories where it isn't Turtles Vs. Shredder and The Foot:

- People complain about too many mutants, most of them being "mutant of the week."

- People complain if it gets too sci-fi and the Turtles fight aliens all the time. This is notable in Volume 4, Lord Dregg in the final seasons of the original toon, the Fast Forward season in the 2k3, and even complaints the Triceratons overstay their welcome.

- People complain about generic human villains. The original toon had too many "mad scientists" or "gangsters/mobsters" and people complain human villains are generic.


You just can't win. People don't like the Turtles fighting mutants, aliens, or generic gangsters for more than a handful of episodes. So the writers are stuck with Shredder.

[Leo656]

Kind of the old show's fault. If people hadn't gotten so used to that formula, they'd be more open to other things.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Hey, don't forget Baxter and Rat King! Plenty of stories you can do with those two as well. Or Slash, Purple Dragons, heck- there's plenty of "other" villains and such to play around with without sticking to JUST Shredder. Sure, he's the most popular/famous, but certainly FAR from the ONLY big villain.

[Wildcat]

So what would be some good alternative titles?

The Ninja Turtles. TNT as an abbreviation which is cool. Could have even been marketed it like... "TNT!!! *Boom effects* The Ninja Turtles.

[ProactiveMan]

Fair point, but you can do more with the idea in TMNT since there's much more room to play with the whole "freaks and outcasts" themes than with some other characters. Beyond that, with a group, you can do a lot of stories just about how X interacts with Y, if you wanted to, and that could also be very interesting. You don't JUST have to have them fight someone every week. You can take a lot of "mundane" ideas much further and in more directions than you can with some other characters/franchises.

Again, that doesn't make for the most interesting TV, but as I said before, "limitations of the medium".

I think that's probably true.

[Prowler]

Yeah, it's too long already. You could shorten it to "TMNT" and add a subtitle but that's kind of ambiguous. The basic name says it all, you don't need anything else.
I think the "teenage" part is unnecessary, honestly. And other than on the Nick toon, in how many other versions did they act like 14-15 year olds? And the "mutant" part isn't necessary either. Just having "Ninja turtles" as the title would be enough to sell the product, I feel. In fact that's how the Turtles are marketed in many non-English speaking countries. We simply call them "Tartarugas Ninja" here, per example.

[Leo656]

I guess mostly just tradition.

Also, the "mutant" part is more or less essential because it firmly establishes them right up front as, indeed, mutants. NOT aliens or whatever else. If it's not right there in the Title, one day some joker is gonna decide to screw with that part. We already dodged that bullet once, and that was enough.

And "Mutant Ninja Turtles" just hits the ear wrong. Like, "Ninja Turtles" sounds fine, and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" sounds fine (if wordy), but simply "Mutant Ninja Turtles" sounds off. Something about the number of syllables and the beat pattern.

So, once you establish that the "Mutant" part is important, you may as well go whole-hog and leave the "Teenage" part in there too. I can understand brevity, but I also feel "If it ain't broke..." etc. etc.

[ABrown]

- People complain about too many mutants, most of them being "mutant of the week."

Well, here's the thing. I can absolutely enjoy new mutants if they're part of something bigger than just themselves. I'm really not interested in seeing a new mutant get his 15 minutes of fame in a one shot 30 minute toy commercial. Look at Bebop and Rocksteady in the Nick series. They're two more new mutants that are added to a show that already has about 1,000 different mutants. And the reason that I'm not complaining isn't because it's Rocksteady and Bebop, it's because their addition is actually serving a purpose. It's two more mutants that Shredder now has in his army. It's not like they're getting one episode just to never see them again.

[Aaronardo]

or "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Plastron Café".

I'd watch that.

In all seriousness though, like many have said, the title is long enough as is, and they all in the grand scheme of things have the same premise. Think about it: the whole thing about Shredder and Splinter's rivalry and the Turtles getting caught in the middle of it. Anything that happens from there comes straight from Shredder. Either that, or Shredder gets himself involved (like with the Kraang).
Then, the TMNT defeat Shredder and the show starts to suck. Just sayin'. I hope the Nick cartoon doesn't do this, too.

(btw, perfect 500th post)

[turtlefanforever]

no, it is a bit annoying though. Looking at the TV and getting excited "teenage mutant ninja turtles is on!!!" ..oh wait it's nick :trolleye: :tthumbsd:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The problem with TV, specifically cartoons, is that there even needs to be "villains" and physical conflict in every single episode in order to keep people interested. I'm personally just as interested in the Turtles' emotional conflicts, personality conflicts, trying to find their place in the world, etc. But that doesn't make for very interesting viewing for kids. Always has to be someone to punch.

I mean, I get it, it's just the limitations of the medium. There's very little room to do "smaller" or more intimate stories because every half-hour needs to be "action-packed" to both keep the kids entertained and sell more toys.

That's why comics are honestly a better storytelling medium for a concept like TMNT. You can do a LOT more than just "Good Guy vs. Bad Guy" stories.

So Leo656, just curious; which character pieces (introspective and non hero-versus-villain) stick out to you from the TMNT comics?

[lindz247]

I like it. It's catchy, me and my friend turned the theme song into a handshake :) Lol we're just weird like that

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Most TMNT cartoons tend to end or "wane" right around the point the Turtles defeat Shredder for good. They also exhaust the supply of villains since aside from creating random new mutants there really aren't many "big" recurring TMNT villains to begin with.

We have, what, 3 cartoons to study regarding this statement? Fred Wolf waned because it became formulaic and there was ZERO character development or plot progression. 4Kids defeated the Shredder for good at the end of Season 3 and then lasted another season (Season 4)... of course, then it brought in a new Shredder for season 5, but that's a different topic. And Nick is still going strong I assume, and I know they haven't defeated Shredder. You seem quite ahead of schedule in claiming this. :tgrin:

The problem is people always get sick of the stories where it isn't Turtles Vs. Shredder and The Foot:

- People complain about too many mutants, most of them being "mutant of the week."

- People complain if it gets too sci-fi and the Turtles fight aliens all the time. This is notable in Volume 4, Lord Dregg in the final seasons of the original toon, the Fast Forward season in the 2k3, and even complaints the Triceratons overstay their welcome.

- People complain about generic human villains. The original toon had too many "mad scientists" or "gangsters/mobsters" and people complain human villains are generic.


You just can't win. People don't like the Turtles fighting mutants, aliens, or generic gangsters for more than a handful of episodes. So the writers are stuck with Shredder.

People only complain about "mutant of the week" in the Nick toon, because none of the mutants get any substantial character development. Even those who originally were receiving development (Fishface, Dogpound, Tiger Claw) are now stuck in a rut. Everyone else shows up in a one-and-done episode... or maybe two-and-done.

However, it seems that EVERYONE loves the mutants who get proper character development. Examples? Again, Tiger Claw, Fishface, Dogpound; Leatherhead, Bebop, Rocksteady, Old Hob, Slash, to name a few.

Likewise, I've never heard anyone complain about the sci-fi. A lot of didn't like Fast Forward because it was poorly written with bland generic characters and stories that went nowhere and distracted from the potential storylines of Darius Dun and the Dark Turtles, Sh'okano-whatever, etc. And everyone complains about Volume 4 because it TAKES SO FREAKING LONG to get a damn issue. But that's Mirage for you, and yes, I'm bitter. :tlol: And nobody complains about Triceratons; Triceratons are badass. (Lord Dregg I never saw, so no comment on him.)

And as for generic mob bosses and scientists? That's because the Fred Wolf cartoon was chock full of exactly that; generic mob bosses and scientists who did jack for one episode and were never seen again. No character development, no point. Most people have only praise for the human villains such as Karai, Agent Bishop, Baxter Stockman, Hun, and the Rat King. (Although some people do of course not like some of those characters, and are as such entitled to their opinions.)

I would say that a more accurate statement is readers/viewers have no patience for generic villains and always see Shredder and Krang as the two big bads. And while some minority segments of the fans may not like some characters, most fans enjoy and appreciate other well-developed antagonists, be they mutants, aliens, or humans.

[Xav]

4Kids defeated the Shredder for good at the end of Season 3 and then lasted another season (Season 4)... of course, then it brought in a new Shredder for season 5, but that's a different topic.But 4Kids didn't really get rid of Shredder after season 3, they had Karai become Shredder in season 4, as well as have the first Shredder come back as Cyber Shredder in BTTS, as well as Turtles Forever.

[Leo656]

So Leo656, just curious; which character pieces (introspective and non hero-versus-villain) stick out to you from the TMNT comics?

True story? I have not read ANY comics of any kind in almost 5 years b/c they're all in storage. I know I could answer this were the stories more fresh in my mind, but given how fuzzy my memories are at the moment, I don't want to misremember anything.

I do know that comics in general are a better medium for character development than a 30-minute toy commercial, though.

[evan2000]

I'd watch that.

In all seriousness though, like many have said, the title is long enough as is, and they all in the grand scheme of things have the same premise. Think about it: the whole thing about Shredder and Splinter's rivalry and the Turtles getting caught in the middle of it. Anything that happens from there comes straight from Shredder. Either that, or Shredder gets himself involved (like with the Kraang).
Then, the TMNT defeat Shredder and the show starts to suck. Just sayin'. I hope the Nick cartoon doesn't do this, too.

(btw, perfect 500th post)

Welcome to the Stone Warrior family! I made it too exactly a week ago!

Totally agree that Shredder is essential for *any* version of TMNT. Take Shredder away and the show would quickly go down hill. This happened in the 1987 and 2003 series, as well as the 3rd and 4th movie. Everything feels interesting again when you get him back (eg. Turtles Forever)

Even in the Nick series, some people started losing interest as soon as Shredder left for Japan in early season 2, and during the Northampton arc in early season 3. Why, the show quickly turned into MOTW or the endless Kraang-Activity-OTW as soon as Shredder was absent.

BTW back to the main topic, TMNT will always be TMNT. Adding a tag title like SOTO, FF, BTTS etc. to differentiate the variants is alright, but shortening it is really bad. Seriously Ninja Turtles sounds to me just like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, ie. anthropomorphic animals suited for little kids cartoon. Teenage and Mutant are both necessary to establish the turtles age and that they were in fact mutated, not simply speech-capable animals/creatures like Mickey Mouse and friends.

And I am not a fan of Adult Mutant Ninja Turtles at all. The 2014 movie already made them too adult-like, I don't wish to go any further than that. The only adult version of turtles (man that sounds dirty :trazz:) that is acceptable to me is if (and only if) time travelling is involved and the turtles meet their future selves, like Archie's Future Shark Trilogy, and 4Kids' SAINW.

[mrminister4446]

Welcome to the Stone Warrior family! I made it too exactly a week ago!

Totally agree that Shredder is essential for *any* version of TMNT. Take Shredder away and the show would quickly go down hill. This happened in the 1987 and 2003 series, as well as the 3rd and 4th movie. Everything feels interesting again when you get him back (eg. Turtles Forever)

Even in the Nick series, some people started losing interest as soon as Shredder left for Japan in early season 2, and during the Northampton arc in early season 3. Why, the show quickly turned into MOTW or the endless Kraang-Activity-OTW as soon as Shredder was absent.

BTW back to the main topic, TMNT will always be TMNT. Adding a tag title like SOTO, FF, BTTS etc. to differentiate the variants is alright, but shortening it is really bad. Seriously Ninja Turtles sounds to me just like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, ie. anthropomorphic animals suited for little kids cartoon. Teenage and Mutant are both necessary to establish the turtles age and that they were in fact mutated, not simply speech-capable animals/creatures like Mickey Mouse and friends.

And I am not a fan of Adult Mutant Ninja Turtles at all. The 2014 movie already made them too adult-like, I don't wish to go any further than that. The only adult version of turtles (man that sounds dirty :trazz:) that is acceptable to me is if (and only if) time travelling is involved and the turtles meet their future selves, like Archie's Future Shark Trilogy, and 4Kids' SAINW.

That is very true, The Shredder is one of the best and coolest villains, and it just isn't the same without some sort of incarnation of him. The only episodes after season 5 in the 2k3 series I really like was "The Journal" and "Timing is everything" because they included the foot and/or the shredder in some form. While season 7 had the foot and the shredder, it wasn't really the same, because the cyber shredder looked ridiculous, and the foot didn't look as cool anymore.