Why did Shredder and Krang remain allies?

[neatoman]

So the reason they originally teamed up was that Shredder would build Krang a new body in exchange for technology. For most of season 1 Shredder refused to build that body, believing that Krang would betray him as soon as he got it. So why did they remain allies?

They kept implying that these two would betray each other to gain complete control, Krang seemed to have very little reason to keep Shredder around after building that body and it was pretty clear they didn't like each other much, yet still they still stuck together until the final season. That's really weird honestly, am I missing something? Was it just a status quo demand or was there an actual reason?

[turtlefanforever]

These OT threads you're churning out seem pretty passive aggressive. That said in the question at hand it's probably because Krang could have Shredder do all his dirty work. As much as Shredder was the main villain he was Krang's minion. You see Krang at various times, making inventions, sending them out to do his bidding, watching soaps. He doesn't want to be out there. He's a ruler of worlds. He's used to sending people out to do his dirty work. He isn't the ruler he was on dimension x but he created his own hierarchy or dictatorship if you will on earth with Bebop and Rocksteady and the gang.

[cammy85]

In season 1, Shredder was abusing Krang's technology for his own gains, not fulfilling his end of the bargain to build Krang a new body. Shredder finally does so and they're banished to Dimension X.

As a result, Krang finally sends Shredder back to Earth, albeit without his army and the mutants created by the mutagen Krang made for him. As S2 progresses, Krang gets more and more involved with the plans and my guess is once the Technodrome returned to Earth at the end and in Seasons 5-8, he was able to get involved with the plots instead of being the "portal jockey" he became in Season 4. And as Shredder said in the comics (before being possessed), they were stronger together than apart.

[CyberCubed]

I actually always liked the episodes where Shredder or Krang talked about turning on each other. It was always pretty funny because the other one always suspected betrayal too and they mention it a few times.

[neatoman]

These OT threads you're churning out seem pretty passive aggressive.

Well I haven't exactly made it a secret that I don't like the Fred Wolf series but I don't think my criticism of it is any more irrational or aggressive than any I made towards any other versions of TMNT. I've said that a lot of the 4Kids animation was cheap looking, I've said that the Nick series is too slow paced, I've said that several issues of the Mirage comics are incomprehensive and I like all of those versions.

[Prowler]

Because it's a cartoon.

In all seriousness, they probably couldn't find anyone else to ally with. Krang did work with a few throughout the course of the series but they either ended up failing or betraying him. So he probably figured that he might as well have just remained with Shredder. As for Shredder, Krang gave him access to very advanced technology. Who else could he align himself with who'd provide him so many resources to take over the world?

[cammy85]

Oops yes; I forgot all the betrayal attempts. Like I said, Krang had started telling Shredder what to do even in Season 2 so betrayal was inevitable.

[ABrown]

I think the better question would be: why wouldn't they remain allies? They needed each other. Shredder needed Krang's intellect, and Krang needed Shredder's skills as a warrior.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Shredder needed Krang's intellect, and Krang needed Shredder's skills as a warrior.

Skills as a warrior? Shredder?

:tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::t lol::tlol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Of course. He was on par with Splinter, at least, and it usually took two or more of the turtles to take him on, so- yeah. Also, until the Neutrinos arrived on Earth, Krang had none of his minions from Dimension X to aid him. Traag and Granitor only showed up because they were chasing the Neutrinos when they went through the portal. Shredder was a stand in for the Rock Soldiers until they arrived. After that, he was more like tech support and field commander. Let's not forget, Shredder WAS pretty intelligent and skilled with tech on his own, as well. Even the RPG books lists computer programming, chemistry, electrical engineering, and surveillance systems/TV/Radio, and cryptography among his skills. He was a "modern" ninja, well-versed in multiple fields that Krang would have found useful.

[Prowler]

Skills as a warrior? Shredder?

:tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::t lol::tlol:
Yea, more like he needed Shredder as his errand boy. :lol:

[neatoman]

Skills as a warrior? Shredder?

:tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::tlol::t lol::tlol:

Yeah the notion that FW Shredder was anything other than an incompetent clown seems pretty absurd to me.

[Myko]

Question is why did Krang need Shredder to build his body in the first place? Krang had robots and all the tech in the Technodrome to built it himself.

[neatoman]

Question is why did Krang need Shredder to build his body in the first place? Krang had robots and all the tech in the Technodrome to built it himself.

Yeah it is pretty weird that he would give someone unlimited access to his fortress of doom in exchange for the promise of a new body, not a new body itself mind you but the promise of a new body. Not only should Krang have had the technology to build it himself, he was somehow capable (without that oh so important body) to get to a warehouse to free Mikey rather quickly and without drawing any attention to himself.
Imagine Krang pushing himself forward on that wheel leg thing across town as fast as he can, it's hilarious.
So yes, he probably had no need for Shredder at all.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Of course. He was on par with Splinter, at least, and it usually took two or more of the turtles to take him on, so- yeah. Also, until the Neutrinos arrived on Earth, Krang had none of his minions from Dimension X to aid him. Traag and Granitor only showed up because they were chasing the Neutrinos when they went through the portal. Shredder was a stand in for the Rock Soldiers until they arrived. After that, he was more like tech support and field commander. Let's not forget, Shredder WAS pretty intelligent and skilled with tech on his own, as well. Even the RPG books lists computer programming, chemistry, electrical engineering, and surveillance systems/TV/Radio, and cryptography among his skills. He was a "modern" ninja, well-versed in multiple fields that Krang would have found useful.

I admire your effort to defend the Fred Wolf Shredder as a skilled warrior, and if we were able to isolate only Season 1 for this discussion, then I'd totally agree with you. But Seasons 2 thru 10 also have to be considered... and thus, my hilarity. Shrinking rays, growing rays, and all the other standard Saturday-morning-cartoon tropes apply. But then, of course, the bigger question of why they stayed allies... But no. As a whole for this cartoon, not a skilled warrior.

Sigh. The cartoon I grew up with did not age well. But I do still respect it for making Ninja Turtles more than just a passing fad.

[neatoman]

I admire your effort to defend the Fred Wolf Shredder as a skilled warrior, and if we were able to isolate only Season 1 for this discussion, then I'd totally agree with you. But Seasons 2 thru 10 also have to be considered... and thus, my hilarity. Shrinking rays, growing rays, and all the other standard Saturday-morning-cartoon tropes apply. But then, of course, the bigger question of why they stayed allies... But no. As a whole for this cartoon, not a skilled warrior.

Sigh. The cartoon I grew up with did not age well. But I do still respect it for making Ninja Turtles more than just a passing fad.

Don't forget cookies and fake pizza places.

[ABrown]

Was Shredder competant? No, I wouldn't say that. But he was supposed to be among the greatest ninjas on the planet, right there with Master Splinter. Does that make him a "skilled warrior" though? It does in my book.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Was Shredder competant? No, I wouldn't say that. But he was supposed to be among the greatest ninjas on the planet, right there with Master Splinter. Does that make him a "skilled warrior" though? It does in my book.

Considering the Turtles didn't do much ninja-ing either... and Splinter just mostly meditated...

Telling me he's the greatest ninja on the planet isn't convincing me he's the greatest. sorry, I'm probably being unduly harsh of my favorite childhood cartoon... but once the 4Kids cartoon came out, there was no looking back. Now THAT was a badass Shredder.:shredder:

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, I mean Shredder did keep it kinda serious when he fought against Splinter aside from the occasional cheating with a laser gun, but for the most part it's hard to take the turtles seriously when they're tossing pizza and pulling the rug out from under you and all that other nonsense. At least Shredder went at them with swords and guns.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I admire your effort to defend the Fred Wolf Shredder as a skilled warrior, and if we were able to isolate only Season 1 for this discussion, then I'd totally agree with you. But Seasons 2 thru 10 also have to be considered... and thus, my hilarity. Shrinking rays, growing rays, and all the other standard Saturday-morning-cartoon tropes apply. But then, of course, the bigger question of why they stayed allies... But no. As a whole for this cartoon, not a skilled warrior.

Sigh. The cartoon I grew up with did not age well. But I do still respect it for making Ninja Turtles more than just a passing fad.


That doesn't mean he wasn't skilled in the context of the series- he was just suffering from villain decay. The series was full of such tropes, but when he DID fight personally, he was very much a threat. Unfortunately, he wasn't nearly as clever as he thought he was- but then, villains never are....


Was Shredder competant? No, I wouldn't say that. But he was supposed to be among the greatest ninjas on the planet, right there with Master Splinter. Does that make him a "skilled warrior" though? It does in my book.


Ditto. He could-and did- manage to beat the turtles on many occasions, and at times, it was April or even Splinter himself who had to come to their rescue. So he WAS a threat, he just wasn't very good and coming up with plans. Neither was Krang, for that matter.


Yeah, I mean Shredder did keep it kinda serious when he fought against Splinter aside from the occasional cheating with a laser gun, but for the most part it's hard to take the turtles seriously when they're tossing pizza and pulling the rug out from under you and all that other nonsense. At least Shredder went at them with swords and guns.


^ This.

[neatoman]

Yeah, I mean Shredder did keep it kinda serious when he fought against Splinter aside from the occasional cheating with a laser gun, but for the most part it's hard to take the turtles seriously when they're tossing pizza and pulling the rug out from under you and all that other nonsense. At least Shredder went at them with swords and guns.

"Have a dough-net!"

[CyberCubed]

Shredder's competence as a fighter changed depending on who was writing the episode. Sometimes Shredder could be defeated by a pizza being thrown in his face, other times the Turtles couldn't take him down in a fight and he proved to be a stronger fighter than even Splinter.

The original cartoon constantly wavered from slapstick to a general action cartoon, so obviously things weren't consistent

[MsMarvelDuckie]

True, true, and I think that eventually hurt his credibility as a villain. It weird when Krang, who has NO experience at combat personally (it's pretty obvious from the way he fights) can be a more credible threat in fights than Shredder, who has YEARS of practice. Krang usually fought more "fair" though- being more or a straight-forward combatant than Shredder, who seems to prefer methods that are far more treacherous.

[Cryomancer]

Krang needed Shredder to make a body because Shredder had hands.

Also probably something about putting him into the body physically, that moment seemed like a point where he was incredibly weak and vulnerable and having someone strong to be next to you at the time that you were keeping in line with promise of lasers and stuff probably was re-assuring.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Krang needed Shredder to make a body because Shredder had hands.

But did Shredder have... JAZZ HANDS!?

[Myko]

It sure would've been interesting to see the story of how Krang got banished to earth. Whoever did it must've been pretty stupid to not take Krang out of the huge weaponised fortress with a working interdimensional teleporter.

[ABrown]

I would've preferred that Shredder not ever given Krang the android body. I liked Krang a lot more as just the "brains behind the operations". I also would've liked for Shredder and Krang to have had Baxter Stockman at their disposal as well. It would've made for a nice 4 on 4 every time Shredder and co. went up against the turtles.

[neatoman]

I just watched an episode where they outright say the android body is a worthless piece of crap, so maybe Shredder made a bad body on purpose?

The episode is called Pirate Radio.

[Prowler]

Considering the Turtles didn't do much ninja-ing either... and Splinter just mostly meditated...

Telling me he's the greatest ninja on the planet isn't convincing me he's the greatest. sorry, I'm probably being unduly harsh of my favorite childhood cartoon... but once the 4Kids cartoon came out, there was no looking back. Now THAT was a badass Shredder.:shredder:
Honestly, Lotus Blossom seemed like the most competent ninja on that show.

[DarkFell]

Why did Shredder and Krang remain allies?
Probably because Fred Wolf wanted a couple of compent incompetents to throw in some humor into the villainly. Shredder and Krang became the Crown Jewels in the OT series crown, and they accomplished that feat by staying together.

Another way to see it is that neither Krang nor Shredder had enough character strength to stand alone and they certainly didn't do very well apart from one another in Shredderville.

All of this is just opinion.