Game of Thrones

[Bam]

Anyone else here watch Game of Thrones? I'm getting ready to do a big marathon to prep myself for season 5. My favorite character is Tyrion, but my favorite house is Bolton. I'm looking forward to being emotionally devastated by future episodes.

No book spoilers please. I'm only on A Clash of Kings.

[pennydreadful]

I watch it as well; I'd have to say my fave character is Brienne, closely followed by Daeny.

I've got to be honest, I did find the format of the books very frustrating - by which I mean the constantly changing POVs, and the fact that no sooner do you get attached to a character than GRRM kills them off. It's something that I find easier to roll with in the tv series than the books; I'm able to keep a bit more emotional distance with the tv series.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

LOve it, one of my fav shows, can't wait for season 5. Yes Tyrion rules!

[ObiWanFan4life]

I adore the Show, I've wanted to read the books, but they're the size of phone books.

[Bam]

I've got to be honest, I did find the format of the books very frustrating - by which I mean the constantly changing POVs, and the fact that no sooner do you get attached to a character than GRRM kills them off. It's something that I find easier to roll with in the tv series than the books; I'm able to keep a bit more emotional distance with the tv series.


Yeah, after reading the first book, I'm honestly happy that I watched the show first. I feel more of an emotional impact from the show. But the books provide more information and help to understand the characters better. I just wish I had more time to read them.

Brienne is a really great character. I lover her. All the female characters are really fantastic.

[pennydreadful]

I'm actually very fond of Cersei as well.

It's going to be interesting to see whether GRRM ever actually finishes the book series - I know he's said he's going to but let's face it, he's 67 and not in the best of shape. Truthfully, I don't think it's going to happen. It's actually made me extremely reluctant to continue reading the novels (well, that and the fact that I find his books very hard work as I'm just not a fan of his particular writing style).

[Bam]

I'm actually very fond of Cersei as well.

It's going to be interesting to see whether GRRM ever actually finishes the book series - I know he's said he's going to but let's face it, he's 67 and not in the best of shape. Truthfully, I don't think it's going to happen. It's actually made me extremely reluctant to continue reading the novels (well, that and the fact that I find his books very hard work as I'm just not a fan of his particular writing style).

I actually really like Cersei too. She's a great character, but people seem to hate her.

Yeah, considering the books started when I was a child and there are only 5...I don't really have high hopes of seeing them end. I'm sure that he has some kind of notebook full of spoilers just in case. And the HBO show will do it own thing, so there's that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think Peter Laird and GRRM get together in a pub somewhere and knock back ales as they laugh at their fans who desperately wait with bated breath for conclusions to their stories. :tsad::tcry:

In all seriousness, though, I loved Daenerys and Tyrion... Jaime is also badass. The books seemed to get really tedious though around Book 4 "Feast of Crows" and I started skipping whole sections... too many new character introduced around that time. I still don't understand all of the Sand Viper girls and that whole family/clan...

[THGhost]

Love it. My favourite character is either Daeny or Arya - such strong female characters which is a rare thing.

[Bam]

In all seriousness, though, I loved Daenerys and Tyrion... Jaime is also badass. The books seemed to get really tedious though around Book 4 "Feast of Crows" and I started skipping whole sections... too many new character introduced around that time. I still don't understand all of the Sand Viper girls and that whole family/clan...


That's not the first time I've heard someone say that about A Feast for Crows. Makes me worried. I really do want to read all the books. I love reading, but it's just taking me forever. I'm around page 600 on the second book and I've been reading for over half a year. Gah! I usually read really fast, but it's just hard to find the time. And sometimes I just get to a character I just don't want to read about and stop for a while. Like, Bran's parts really drag for me.

Has anyone else played the Telltale games?

[pennydreadful]

He's basically said that if he dies before he finishes the book series, whatever unfolds in the tv show will be the official wrap-up for the story.

I view the books and the show as two very different animals anyway, so it doesn't particularly bother me. They made a hell of a lot of changes in the show - bringing in new characters that weren't in the books, not killing off characters who died in the books, leaving out literally dozens of characters from the books and leaving out numerous sub-plots and storylines entirely, making characters more sympathetic in the tv series than they were in the books, characters who were unattractive in the books are more attractive in the tv series etc.

Ordinarily that kind of departure from the source material would drive me wild, as I'm a dyed-in-the-wool book snob, but I think that if the changes hadn't been made to both streamline the narrative and make the world appealing to the viewer, it wouldn't have nearly the success that it does. Let's be honest, there's a lot of people who had never heard of the books and would never have picked them up if it weren't for the tv series. IMO, the tv series is a rare instance of the adaptation being better than the original novel(s).

GRRM is that interesting animal that I refer to as The Good Bad Writer. He has some very interesting ideas, and a great skill for constructing a unique and detailed world which makes the reader want to know more. Conversely, he does have a tendency to get bogged down in those same details (which results in chapters upon chapters of dragging exposition and set-up), and he falls prey to a great number of tropes which, to be fair, are fairly endemic across the fantasy genre (and are also present in the show). I think that the scope of what he has created has grown to the point that it now works against him and he's lost his way and doesn't know where he's going or what he's doing. The tv show has been able to trim things down and tighten the pacing of the storytelling, which most people would agree does drag significantly in the last two books.

I'm also going to flat-out say that GRRM's sex scenes are just butt-clenchingly ghastly. I think a lot of people glom onto his novels because they're excited that he breaks a lot of the fantasy novel traditions - in particular, his fondness for exploring the horizontal mambo in lurid, sweaty (and often rape-tastic) detail while at the same time using odd, awkward, flowery prose*. Unfortunately, when you get to one of those scenes in a GRRM book (or when he feels the need to throw in a description of how a character's breasts are moving under their clothes in the middle of a paragraph), it throws me right out of the scene and I just feel like I'm reading something written by a dirty old man (and trust me, I've read everything Richard Laymon has ever published, and that guy redefines "shoe-horning squicky personal fantasies into his work"). Ultimately, I'm never 100% sure whether he's writing these scenes in because they're part of his world, or if he's just trying to titillate himself and his readers.

* The author has not yet been spawned who can get away with referring to a character's male member as "The Gift" without resulting in me immediately heaving a jaded sigh, rolling my eyes skyward and reaching for the nearest bottle of absinthe.

[Bam]

I find it really odd that he's okay with the show wrapping up the canon story when he's so against fanfiction.

I can't really give in my full two cents until I catch up on the books, but this has me slightly apprehensive. Not that I'm not going to stop reading or enjoying them. I'm just going to have higher hopes for the show than the books. Most of what I've read so far has not strayed too far from the show.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's not the first time I've heard someone say that about A Feast for Crows. Makes me worried. I really do want to read all the books. I love reading, but it's just taking me forever. I'm around page 600 on the second book and I've been reading for over half a year. Gah! I usually read really fast, but it's just hard to find the time. And sometimes I just get to a character I just don't want to read about and stop for a while. Like, Bran's parts really drag for me.

Has anyone else played the Telltale games?

Identify your favorite characters and plot lines, then skip everything else. That's the only way I made it through Books Four and Five. And I am a fanatical reader who has been reading since I first read a +400 page chapter novel in preschool. Yeah, I'm an addict to good storytelling. :toops:

[Bam]

Identify your favorite characters and plot lines, then skip everything else. That's the only way I made it through Books Four and Five. And I am a fanatical reader who has been reading since I first read a +400 page chapter novel in preschool. Yeah, I'm an addict to good storytelling. :toops:

Oh, man, I don't know if I could do that. Skipping parts in a book just feels so wrong to me. But I guess it depends on how frustrated I get.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh, man, I don't know if I could do that. Skipping parts in a book just feels so wrong to me. But I guess it depends on how frustrated I get.

Believe me, I was not thrilled about doing it and I still feel a little guilty. But my brain was trying to escape out one of my ears from sheer frustration, so I did what was necessary. :tlol:

[pennydreadful]

I find it really odd that he's okay with the show wrapping up the canon story when he's so against fanfiction.

Ah yes, the old "I don't agree with fanfiction morally (because I'm scared someone will do a better job of writing my characters than me)" line. It worked out so well for Anne Rice!

The thing with the books is that GRRM originally only intended for it to be a trilogy. And by the time you hit book 4, it shows. My suggestion is to just stick with the first 3 books, otherwise you will inevitably feel that you're reading the others out of a sense of begrudging obligation. I know I did.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Ah yes, the old "I don't agree with fanfiction morally (because I'm scared someone will do a better job of writing my characters than me)" line. It worked out so well for Anne Rice!

The thing with the books is that GRRM originally only intended for it to be a trilogy. And by the time you hit book 4, it shows. My suggestion is to just stick with the first 3 books, otherwise you will inevitably feel that you're reading the others out of a sense of begrudging obligation. I know I did.

But Book 3 does not at all end all--any--of the plot lines. How would sticking with the first three books be a more palatable reading experience?

[pennydreadful]

I think that the first three books have a higher quality of writing, so I'm talking about it in that context. You've said yourself, by the time you hit book 4 you were skipping entire chapters. *shrugs* Just IMO.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think that the first three books have a higher quality of writing, so I'm talking about it in that context. You've said yourself, by the time you hit book 4 you were skipping entire chapters. *shrugs* Just IMO.

Ah, for a quality reading experience. Gotcha. Definitely agree.

Well, for the moment, GoT is more or less a bunch of different stories collected together... there isn't a whole lot to tie some of the different character arcs together yet until certain characters join somebody out in Westoros (avoiding spoilers)...

[Bam]

Started my episode-a-day run to prepare myself for Season 5. The hardest part will be watching only one episode at a time.

[pennydreadful]

I feel ya - I binge-watched Season 4 again a few weekends ago. ;)

[Bam]

The is the first time I've rewatched and it's blowing my mind. So strange to go back, knowing what is known.

[Don Gaddis]

Was anyone else a little disappointed with season four? I'm not sure exactly why, but I didn't find myself as invested in it this time around. Maybe I'm just getting used to the plot mechanics, but there were several moments during season four in which I knew intuitively what was going to happen before it unfolded... and it just kind of took the fun out of watching.

There was one episode that I found really, really tedious (which I won't be specific about, out of respect for others who have yet to catch up). The entire episode was one long, grueling battle. Usually I'm an insanely patient person, but even my limits were tested. I found myself thinking, okay, I get the idea... let's move on... but it kept going. And going. And going.

Random thoughts:

I do like that Sansa is finally participating...

Dany seems to be making a whole string of bad decisions, though she believes that they are wise decisions...

I loved the Moon Door scene! You know the one of which I speak...

Lastly, for the first time this season, I thought that there were a few instances in which the gore lost all shock value and became completely redundant.

[Bam]

Are you thinking of the episode that was just the battle at the Wall? Episode 9, I think it was. They usually move and cover different characters, but that one was 100% Wall.

The only thing I found tedious was Tyrion's trial. Not the actually scene, that was amazing, but I felt they drug out the whole ordeal just to make it all last longer. There were also certain book spoilery details that I had already spoiled myself on and was looking forward to, only to have them leave them out.

[Don Gaddis]

Bam, yes- the Wall episode. I wish that episode had been something more along the lines of 70% Wall and 30% other characters/plots. Or maybe more of a half and half kind of thing, but perhaps the show creators were just trying to emphasis the importance of that battle by having it take up the whole episode. Or maybe they didn't want to break the momentum of it up by cutting away to other things. I've purchased some of the books but haven't read them yet, so I'm not sure how significant this battle is to the overall story.

I'm in agreement with you about Tyrion's trial. I too felt that it was dragged out a bit. And speaking of elements that are left out thus far, I've heard about a certain character named Lady Stoneheart (might be spelling her name wrong)... I hope that she isn't left out of next season.

[The Deadman]

I'm bumping this because it seems to be a general Game of Thrones discussion thread

HBO Eyeing Multiple Game of Thrones Spinoffs (http://411mania.com/movies/hbo-eyeing-multiple-game-of-thrones-spinoffs/)

[ProphetofGanja]

I'm bumping this because it seems to be a general Game of Thrones discussion thread

HBO Eyeing Multiple Game of Thrones Spinoffs (http://411mania.com/movies/hbo-eyeing-multiple-game-of-thrones-spinoffs/)

Cool :tcool:

[The Deadman]

George R.R. Martin Talks Game of Thrones Spin-Offs, Confirms They’re Prequels
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/848185-george-r-r-martin-talks-game-of-thrones-spin-offs-confirms-theyre-prequels#SasDfMvXkB156cH6.99

[ProphetofGanja]

George R.R. Martin Talks Game of Thrones Spin-Offs, Confirms They’re Prequels
Read more at http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/848185-george-r-r-martin-talks-game-of-thrones-spin-offs-confirms-theyre-prequels#SasDfMvXkB156cH6.99

lmao @ Dick Direwolf :lol:

Hmm. I was hoping that at least one of these "successor series" was gonna be set after the events of Game of Thrones but oh well. It's interesting that he confirmed that Dunk & Egg and Robert's Rebellion will not be explored. I guess I'm glad about that though, both of those events are pretty well covered already.

I'm most curious about the statement that not all of these series will take place in Westeros. More exploration of Planetos would be very cool

[NinjaPug]

No live action adaptation of Robert's Rebellion because there won't be anything to be explored once the next two books are out?

**** off GRRM. First, we both know you'll never release Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. Second, what does knowing information about it have to do with making a live action adaptation? It's no different than the actual series currently airing on HBO.

[ProphetofGanja]

Season 7 Trailer

giYeaKsXnsI

[Andrew NDB]

Season premiere was LAME! Isn't there only like 7 episodes this season? It took all of the "players" and moved them exactly like one inch.

[plastroncafe]

Season premiere was LAME! Isn't there only like 7 episodes this season? It took all of the "players" and moved them exactly like one inch.

I agree with the exact opposite of this statement.

[ProphetofGanja]

Season premiere was LAME! Isn't there only like 7 episodes this season? It took all of the "players" and moved them exactly like one inch.

It's called "setting up the board" and it's pretty necessary after a year-long break, reminding everyone of where the various characters are and what they're trying to accomplish.

But I agree, I wish we could have gotten to see more happen in the first episode. There have been worse season-openers though.

[Andrew NDB]

It's called "setting up the board" and it's pretty necessary after a year-long break

Not really... Showtime replayed all the last season's episodes right before it came on. And the first five minutes of the episode LITERALLY recap the last season finale. It's one thing if this was a standard season... but it's like 7 episodes! They don't have time to putz about.

And all that talk about "we need to delay production to wait for snow," there's a grand total of like 2 scenes in this episode with snow. And one of them I'm pretty sure is largely FAKE snow/heavily CGIed.

[Andrew NDB]

If anyone is interested in all the big spoilers for the rest of the season, check this out:
https://www.techworm.net/2016/11/spoiler-alert-entire-script-game-thrones-season-7-leaked-online.html

It was posted last November and, now with episode 3 done, appears to be completely accurate so far.

[NinjaPug]

So what did everyone think of the season?

There were things I liked but I thought this season was really poorly written/plotted. The whole plan to get Cersei to call a temporary truce so they can fight the Night King was one of the dumbest things I've seen. I think that was the only thing they could come up with to get Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei, etc. in one scene together. They just wanted that scene to happen even if it didn't make narrative sense.

The Sansa/Arya stuff was just nonsense to give those actors something to do all season leading up to the finale.

Thought the season was simply lazy writing just to get to the payoffs.

[Krutch]

This season was alright. Not a whole lot I really sunk my teeth into, though. Glad to see Jora make it out alive another season.

Everything outside the initial meeting between Jon and Dany I couldn't stand. It just felt so rushed and forced and on the verge of pandering.

Sansa was a boring disappointment this year. And for all of Little Finger's treachery and misdirections, I felt he never really had a real big moment yet since season 1. So his demise felt either premature or long overdue.

The Sansa/Arya stuff was just nonsense to give those actors something to do all season leading up to the finale.
I agree. Arya did nothing all season. Very disappointed.

Overall, this season was pretty meh. Considering the shortened episode count I was hoping for intense, amped up storytelling but instead it almost seemed to go the opposite way.

[Andrew NDB]

I agree. Arya did nothing all season. Very disappointed.

She killed all the Freys and killed muthf***ing Littlefinger. That counts for something, doesn't it? She did way more than, say, Varis. Varis literally did nothing except have 1 tiny scene where he had to kind of defend his loyalty for some reason (wasn't he already vetted?).

My season 8 predictions (*spoilers*... maybe):

* Cersei miscarries. Almost right off the bat. Goes into a rage. "Nothing left to lose" mode.
* Theon almost certainly dies rescuing his sister or during the escape.
* Jon Snow has "the talk" with Sam and Bran. Mind is blown. Maybe he keeps this under his hat for a while, though, at least from Daenerys.
* Jaime joins up with the combined Unsullied/Dothraki/North army just in time for the big battle. Brienne and Tyrion all vouch for him, that he's not just some mole.
* The great big White Walker battle. Lots of death. At some point, though, Jon (or someone) gets through to the Night King. We learn they want something other than just to wipe out the living. A truce/understanding (or something) is struck. Or maybe Daenerys kills the Night King and becomes the Night Queen to control all the army of the undead!
* Tyrion turns out to be a Targaryen, rides the other dragon at a critical moment.
* On their return back south, here's the big Lannisters vs. everybody that's left battle. It looks bad but... here comes the Night King (or Daenerys as the Night Queen!) and the White Walkers to help!
* During the battle, Daenerys goes a little too nuts. All that stuff they keep repeating over all the seasons about, "I'm NOT like my father, the Mad King!" turns out to be foreshadowing for, well, her becoming exactly like her father, the Mad King, and then she starts wiping out even Lannister civilians, children and all. She has to be stopped, but the Dothraki and Unsullied remain loyal to her... so they all become the enemy.
* If Daenerys becomes the Night Queen, Jorah or Jaime will be the one to kill her.
* Cersei gives up the crown willingly after, #1) Learning/growing a lot from recent events, #2) Hearing and acknowledging his right to the throne, leaving Jon Snow the King at King's Landing. Maaaybe even takes him as her husband... but that seems super weird. But maybe they're going for super weird.
* Sansa becomes officially the Queen of the North.
* Arya has a final visit from the faceless man Jaqen. Turns out he's been with her since the beginning, even using the face/name of Syrio Forel when he trained her during season 1.
* Happy ending for Tormund and Brienne. Probably.
* At least one more big time loop thing with Bran. I want the "Bran = Bran the Builder" theory to be true, but I don't know. Maybe he is the one that whispers in the Mad King's ear in the past, at least. *shrug*

Whatever happens, it won't just be as simple as... you know, Jon and Daenerys fight and defeat Night King, then go and fight and beat Cersei with her surprise reinforcements and probable surprise reinforcements for Daenerys (Daario does have to show up at some point, though... I expect "the Han Solo Save" at some point with him, no matter what happens, with the leftover armies Daenerys left across the sea), cue the happy ending. No way. Martin said the end will be "bittersweet."

I've also read compelling theories about "Arya was killed by the Waif, and the Waif has been masquerading as Arya ever since," but I don't think so. There is no good reason the Waif would bother to get revenge on Walder Frey.

[Krutch]

She killed all the Freys and killed muthf***ing Littlefinger. That counts for something, doesn't it?So... between her first scene of the season and the last 15 minutes of the finale, you agree she did nothing then. You could also make the argument Little Finger's death was more something Sansa did than Arya (something she even states afterwards.)

[plastroncafe]

Sansa convicted him, Arya executed him.

What some of you consider "nothing" I consider actual character work.
The show started with the two of them as little girls hating each other for either not following the rules at all, or for following them too closely.

They've both grown, matured, and come into their own as women and I for one was pleased as freakin' punch to see them unite at the end of this season.

I also kind of love pretty much any scene that involved the Hound, especially his interactions with Brieanne (they both admire their adorable little murder-ball in common, Arya) and Tormond ('the giant blonde woman almost killed me.' 'lucky! I wish she would almost kill me...')

ZOMBIE DRAGON!
Which was awesome.

My predictions for the next season are this:

- Cersei isn't coming off that Throne willingly. It's literally the only thing she has left now that Jamie has abandoned her for the greater fight up north.
So she's going to cling to it, and the kid she's carrying, as tightly as possible.

That kid isn't making it through the season. Either it'll be born normal, and will be killed by someone (Arya? Ellaria?), or born a dwarf like Tyrion and she'll kill it herself.

- We're going to get Clegane Bowl, where the Hound and the Mountain square off.

It's my hope that during this fight Littlefinger makes his way back into King's Landing.

Because let's face it, see what I did there, there's no way Arya is going to pass this opportunity up. She's the only Stark decent at deception, and if my memory is correct Cersei is the only one left on her list.

- Jon knocked up Dany.
They'll marry, regardless of the fact that she's his aunt, and then when she dies in battle he'll be kind of the 7 realms.

Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell.

[Andrew NDB]

Sansa convicted him, Arya executed him.

What some of you consider "nothing" I consider actual character work.
The show started with the two of them as little girls hating each other for either not following the rules at all, or for following them too closely.

They've both grown, matured, and come into their own as women and I for one was pleased as freakin' punch to see them unite at the end of this season.

Yep. And they didn't even particularly like each other in season 1... now it's really full circle, and I love that Littlefinger's final contribution was sealing that rift.

ZOMBIE DRAGON!

Is it? The Night King didn't raise him as a standard Wight, with his arm raising... he touched his head and rose him same as he does when he creates another actual White Walker. And they're not zombies.

- Cersei isn't coming off that Throne willingly. It's literally the only thing she has left now that Jamie has abandoned her for the greater fight up north. So she's going to cling to it, and the kid she's carrying, as tightly as possible.

That kid isn't making it through the season. Either it'll be born normal, and will be killed by someone (Arya? Ellaria?), or born a dwarf like Tyrion and she'll kill it herself.

Just going off of the leaks from November...

Literally the one thing that didn't come true in the spoilers leaked from November was that Cersei wakes up in a scene with bloody sheets and a miscarriage. That 100% of the rest of the spoilers all came true exactly as described, this makes me think this scene was cut from the finale, probably moved to the premiere of season 8.

- We're going to get Clegane Bowl, where the Hound and the Mountain square off.

For sure. But I don't think it'll be as simple as the Hound killing his brother and that's that. The Mountain may even be redeemed.

It's my hope that during this fight Littlefinger makes his way back into King's Landing.

Because let's face it, see what I did there, there's no way Arya is going to pass this opportunity up. She's the only Stark decent at deception, and if my memory is correct Cersei is the only one left on her list.

Yeah, Littlefinger is probably the only one left at this point there is much point in Arya face-querading as. That they have available to them.

- Jon knocked up Dany.

For sure.

They'll marry, regardless of the fact that she's his aunt, and then when she dies in battle he'll be kind of the 7 realms.

Probably no time to stop for a wedding in the midst of everything happening. I do definitely see her dying... in addition to everything else, there was the prophecy way back that she'll never actually sit on the throne.

Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell.

For sure. Unfortunately this means I don't see her being given much else to do in season 8.

[plastroncafe]

Is it? The Night King didn't raise him as a standard Wight, with his arm raising... he touched his head and rose him same as he does when he creates another actual White Walker. And they're not zombies.

Things that were once dead that now aren't...totally zombies.

Speaking to that, I can't believe I actually fell for that whole: And the Greyjoys are fleeing because dead things freak them out.

I got most of the way through the episode and was like:
Wait. They literally worship The Drowned God (*cough*cthulu*cough*), why is he afraid of a dead thing that doesn't die again?

Oh right. doublecross. Nice.

Just going off of the leaks from November...

Literally the one thing that didn't come true in the spoilers leaked from November was that Cersei wakes up in a scene with bloody sheets and a miscarriage. That 100% of the rest of the spoilers all came true exactly as described, this makes me think this scene was cut from the finale, probably moved to the premiere of season 8.


I just went and looked up the prophesy that she heard as a girl.
It does say that while her king will have 20 kids, she'll only have three, and they'll all die.

And apparently in the books it says her little brother will strangle her to death.

So, either that's Jamie or it's Tyrion...ooooor it's Arya with Tyrion's face.
People have been talking about Tyrion not making it through to the end too.


For sure. But I don't think it'll be as simple as the Hound killing his brother and that's that. The Mountain may even be redeemed.

Yeah...I don't think there's enough of the Mountain to be redeemed by this point, nor do I think it's possible for him to have been redeemed to begin with.

Probably no time to stop for a wedding in the midst of everything happening. I do definitely see her dying... in addition to everything else, there was the prophecy way back that she'll never actually sit on the throne.

That could be that the throne itself gets destroyed.

For sure. Unfortunately this means I don't see her being given much else to do in season 8.

It's not action packed or pretty, but...the North is going to need to be rebuilt.
And she's going to need to marry.

Also, they brought Gendry back for a reason.
Curious as to what that was.

[Krutch]

My hope for how it all ends?

There's only one outcome...
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr06/7/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-10829-1389137938-8.gif
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr02/7/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-13598-1389137896-5.gif

[Andrew NDB]

Things that were once dead that now aren't...totally zombies.

Do we really consider Jon Snow a zombie?

And apparently in the books it says her little brother will strangle her to death.

So, either that's Jamie or it's Tyrion...ooooor it's Arya with Tyrion's face.
People have been talking about Tyrion not making it through to the end too.

Why can't it be Arya with Jaime's face?

Yeah...I don't think there's enough of the Mountain to be redeemed by this point, nor do I think it's possible for him to have been redeemed to begin with.

True. Although there has to be more to the story there with those two brothers... and maybe the Hound is less of a victim in it.

That could be that the throne itself gets destroyed.

I had that thought. It's really a cursed thing.

Also, they brought Gendry back for a reason.
Curious as to what that was.

Married off with Sansa? Yeah, I guess so.

My hope for how it all ends?

There's only one outcome...
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr06/7/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-10829-1389137938-8.gif
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr02/7/18/anigif_enhanced-buzz-13598-1389137896-5.gif

A fairly popular theory is kind of in that vein. I guess Martin's other non-Game of Thrones books all have similar "bad guys wipe out the good guys" kind of things? That's what I've been told. In this case, it could be the White Walkers wiping out all the kingdoms... the "bittersweet" part of the end being that now the world can return to normal.

I'm hoping for a Dyson Sphere reveal (as in, the whole world exists within it, as it appears in the intro credits sequence of every episode). In space, there's like a Lannister player, a Stark player, etc., with the White Walkers as NPCs or something... a bunch of aliens influencing the 7 Kingdoms as some kind of a GM "Lord of Light," in a competition with one another called "Game of Thrones."

[AT-Man]

The best episode yet!

[ProphetofGanja]

Okay, first of all... GET HYPE, CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED!!!!!!!
2PkEX91uzh4

Now that that's out of the way...


My season 8 predictions (*spoilers*... maybe):

* Cersei miscarries. Almost right off the bat. Goes into a rage. "Nothing left to lose" mode.

Agreed. It is known. Cersei has sunk so low, showing herself willing to commit all sorts of evils to keep her position, that she doesn't deserve something as sweet and innocent as a newborn babe. No dice.

* Theon almost certainly dies rescuing his sister or during the escape.

Yeah, there's no way his mission is 100% successful. Maybe he at least makes it inside whereever Yara is being held, and she sees that he's regained some sense of self and is seeking redemption, but then they both die. That's pretty close to a win in the Game of Thrones playbook.

* Jon Snow has "the talk" with Sam and Bran. Mind is blown. Maybe he keeps this under his hat for a while, though, at least from Daenerys.

Yeah, that's gonna be difficult for him to process. Their are some funny videos of Kit and Emilia talking about how their characters may potentially react to the news of their familial relationship.


* Jaime joins up with the combined Unsullied/Dothraki/North army just in time for the big battle. Brienne and Tyrion all vouch for him, that he's not just some mole.

Something pretty close to this. He's nowhere near the fighter he used to be now that he's lost his dominant hand, but he still has a mind for strategy and would hopefully be welcome into Dany's war council if Tyrion can convince her that he is simply trying to be on the side of the living.

* The great big White Walker battle. Lots of death. At some point, though, Jon (or someone) gets through to the Night King. We learn they want something other than just to wipe out the living. A truce/understanding (or something) is struck. Or maybe Daenerys kills the Night King and becomes the Night Queen to control all the army of the undead!

Nah, I really don't think the White Walkers want anything other than total death and destruction of the living. And then there's a theory that hypothesizes that Bran, warging back in time through the weirwood net, gets trapped in the body of the man seen tied down by the Children, and becomes the first Other, the Night King. He's lived years and years longer than any of the other main characters at this point, by virtue of having "reviewed the tapes" recorded by all the weirwood trees.

* Tyrion turns out to be a Targaryen, rides the other dragon at a critical moment.

I do think he has some Targaryen blood in him, and I do hope to see him ride a dragon. But I'm afraid that may not happen now, since the Night King killed one of Dany's dragons and I think Jon is more likely the destined rider of Rhaegal, it being named after Jon's father. There's a very interesting theory that Tyrion is actually a chimera (https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1bq5ds/spoilers_adwd_an_unlikely_theory_concerning/), sharing DNA from both Tywin and the Mad King Aerys (which actually does a pretty good job of explaining why Tyrion looks so incredibly bizarre in the books, which the show didn't choose to go with) or that Tyrion is metaphorically a manticore (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/137210-tyrion-is-the-manticore-the-son-of-oberyn-martell-and-grandson-of-aerys-targaryen/), stating that he is secretly Oberyn's bastard son, who is secretly Aerys' bastard son. I can see it going either way.

* On their return back south, here's the big Lannisters vs. everybody that's left battle. It looks bad but... here comes the Night King (or Daenerys as the Night Queen!) and the White Walkers to help!
* During the battle, Daenerys goes a little too nuts. All that stuff they keep repeating over all the seasons about, "I'm NOT like my father, the Mad King!" turns out to be foreshadowing for, well, her becoming exactly like her father, the Mad King, and then she starts wiping out even Lannister civilians, children and all. She has to be stopped, but the Dothraki and Unsullied remain loyal to her... so they all become the enemy.
* If Daenerys becomes the Night Queen, Jorah or Jaime will be the one to kill her.
* Cersei gives up the crown willingly after, #1) Learning/growing a lot from recent events, #2) Hearing and acknowledging his right to the throne, leaving Jon Snow the King at King's Landing. Maaaybe even takes him as her husband... but that seems super weird. But maybe they're going for super weird.

All of this I hope is so wrong I'm not even going to address it point-by-point :lol: I hope that the whole Mad Queen like her daddy thing was just a feint, as I want Dany to be the Good Queen Come to Save Everyone, but we'll see I guess. I think Jamie is destined to kill Cersei when he realizes she's a spiteful **** with no intention of allying herself with the rest of humanity to fight against the threat of the undead. The final nail in the coffin will be some evil act she commits after her miscarriage.

* Sansa becomes officially the Queen of the North.

The best I'm hoping for is she is acknowledged as Lady of Winterfell and Warden of the North, and is allowed proper rule of the land, regardless of whether she marries or not.

* Arya has a final visit from the faceless man Jaqen. Turns out he's been with her since the beginning, even using the face/name of Syrio Forel when he trained her during season 1.

I can't see that happening, just because Arya was mad disrespectful to the whole Faceless cult, and they probably don't take too kindly to that. The best I can see is Jaqen just letting Arya go her own way in Westeros, far from the Faceless Ones' domain. *shrugs* who knows though


* Happy ending for Tormund and Brienne. Probably.

I definitely hope so, at least.

* At least one more big time loop thing with Bran. I want the "Bran = Bran the Builder" theory to be true, but I don't know. Maybe he is the one that whispers in the Mad King's ear in the past, at least. *shrug*

I think Bran has a few more things to mess up in the past, it's his main deal at this point.

Whatever happens, it won't just be as simple as... you know, Jon and Daenerys fight and defeat Night King, then go and fight and beat Cersei with her surprise reinforcements and probable surprise reinforcements for Daenerys (Daario does have to show up at some point, though... I expect "the Han Solo Save" at some point with him, no matter what happens, with the leftover armies Daenerys left across the sea), cue the happy ending. No way. Martin said the end will be "bittersweet."

I've also read compelling theories about "Arya was killed by the Waif, and the Waif has been masquerading as Arya ever since," but I don't think so. There is no good reason the Waif would bother to get revenge on Walder Frey.

I'm pretty up-in-the-air as far as what I expect to be the ultimate outcome of everything. I can't help but think of all the book plots that the show has trimmed away, which have huge effects on the book story. I'm content to just ride with whatever D&D come up with, knowing that the books will be richer and more complex.

Sansa convicted him, Arya executed him.

What some of you consider "nothing" I consider actual character work.
The show started with the two of them as little girls hating each other for either not following the rules at all, or for following them too closely.

They've both grown, matured, and come into their own as women and I for one was pleased as freakin' punch to see them unite at the end of this season.

Agreed, while undeniably some parts of their characters' interactions were unrealistic, I think as a whole their arc this season was a good one and I enjoyed it. It really does a good job of showing how far they've come, and the unique skill sets each one has acquired.

I also kind of love pretty much any scene that involved the Hound, especially his interactions with Brieanne (they both admire their adorable little murder-ball in common, Arya) and Tormond ('the giant blonde woman almost killed me.' 'lucky! I wish she would almost kill me...')

Ya, seeing Brienne and the Hound catch up was great.

My predictions for the next season are this:

- Cersei isn't coming off that Throne willingly. It's literally the only thing she has left now that Jamie has abandoned her for the greater fight up north.
So she's going to cling to it, and the kid she's carrying, as tightly as possible.

Most definitely. She'll have a "you can come and pry it from my cold, dead fingers" mentality about the whole situation, which seems very fitting, considering

[ProphetofGanja]

That kid isn't making it through the season. Either it'll be born normal, and will be killed by someone (Arya? Ellaria?), or born a dwarf like Tyrion and she'll kill it herself.

That would be pretty ironic.

- We're going to get Clegane Bowl, where the Hound and the Mountain square off.

2PkEX91uzh4

It's my hope that during this fight Littlefinger makes his way back into King's Landing.

Because let's face it, see what I did there, there's no way Arya is going to pass this opportunity up. She's the only Stark decent at deception, and if my memory is correct Cersei is the only one left on her list.

That would be a rather satisfying scene to watch, but I still think Jamie will be the one to kill Cersei. It will highlight how she lost or pushed away every single ally she had. Except Qyburn, he loves her crazy ass.

- Jon knocked up Dany.
They'll marry, regardless of the fact that she's his aunt, and then when she dies in battle he'll be king of the 7 realms.

Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell.

I do think Jon and Dany will have a child. I don't know if both of its parents will survive to see it grow up though.

It's not action packed or pretty, but...the North is going to need to be rebuilt.
And she's going to need to marry.

Also, they brought Gendry back for a reason.
Curious as to what that was.

I think Sansa would shine in rebuilding efforts after the winter/fight with the Night King is over. The realm deserves good rulers like her.

I'd rather see Gendry with Arya, honestly, with Arya learning to let go of revenge and get on with her life. That's an ideal-type situation though, meaning it's probably never going to happen on Game of Thrones :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

No new season until 2019!

http://www.superherohype.com/news/408959-sophie-turner-confirms-2019-premiere-for-game-of-thrones-season-8#/slide/1

wtf...

[ProphetofGanja]

No new season until 2019!

http://www.superherohype.com/news/408959-sophie-turner-confirms-2019-premiere-for-game-of-thrones-season-8#/slide/1

wtf...

Just read the bad news. Damn shame. At least we should be getting a second season of some other good shows next year, like Atlanta and Westworld, those will hold me over hopefully.

And S7 of Game of Thrones will still beat Book 6 of A Song of Ice and Fire, by a longshot. I'm just hoping the release of the final season will light a fire under GRRM's ass, like "ACTUALLY it went down more like this" *begins writing furiously*

[Andrew NDB]

April 14... we're almost there.

rlR4PJn8b8I

[Andrew NDB]

Is nobody around here watching? Solid first two new episodes... even if none of the action has started yet.

[ProphetofGanja]

I was just wondering what other Dromers’ thoughts were on this season so far. I agree, first two eps have been pretty solid, specially yesterday’s. When I realized we weren’t getting the Battle of Winterfell but instead a kind of bottle episode I was a little irked but that was all quality stuff right there. Lot of emotional closure. Sure to make the inevitable deaths next week all the more poignant.

[joe-eyeball]

Definitely good so far. They needed that emotional loose ends episode with all the characters because it’s likely going to be mayhem the rest of the way! Question is who dies next week?

Theon for sure
Tormund probably
Maybe Jorah
Dude with the flame sword whos name now escapes me also likely
Lots of people in the crypt when the dead rise there?

[Andrew NDB]

I was really thinking Jaime was going to be saved until it's time to take on Cersei, and he would be the one to kill her... but this last episode sure seemed like "let's get ready to say goodbye to Jaime!" to me.

Maybe I'm way off.

[joe-eyeball]

No I think Jaime survives episode 3. I think the characters that carry Valyrian steel have a better chance at surviving the battle. I’m not exactly sure why I feel that way since I said in a previous post that Jorah would die but now I think he will survive as well.

[Andrew NDB]

No I think Jaime survives episode 3. I think the characters that carry Valyrian steel have a better chance at surviving the battle. I’m not exactly sure why I feel that way since I said in a previous post that Jorah would die but now I think he will survive as well.

But Valyrian steel doesn't mean anything after the White Walkers are done with. Which sounds like will be... this next episode.

[joe-eyeball]

But Valyrian steel doesn't mean anything after the White Walkers are done with. Which sounds like will be... this next episode.

True, but his character needs some major level of redemption and slaying the mad queen (Cersei) is kind of perfect. I’m pretty sure he dies but I don’t think it’ll be in the next episode.

I’m kind of digging that theory going around that the Night King is on his way to kings landing and will not be at the battle of Winterfell. The thought that this battle is a giant decoy is kind of cool!

Strategy wise it makes sense. The dead army can thin the herd at winterfell and the night king on a zombie dragon can wreak havoc on kings landing and replenish his army. It weakens the living on two fronts all at once.

[ProphetofGanja]

I wouldn't really call that a "decoy"; that's just a two-pronged attack.

But I agree, it would be bad ass and funny if the Night King was so confident in his army that he sent them to Winterfell while he continued on south (I mean, the Army of the Dead has got to be, like, almost millions strong now, right??)

[Andrew NDB]

How about that new episode?

That's it for the White Walkers. Arya did the deed!

[joe-eyeball]

How about that new episode?

That's it for the White Walkers. Arya did the deed!

It was awesome! Very epic!

[Andrew NDB]

A lot of people complaining that it was too dark and hard to see what's going on, but I'm certain that was the point. From the first moment we see the torches going out to all the craziness outside and inside the gates, we're seeing what the good guys are seeing: swarms of dark masses coming out of the darkness.

I'm a little upset that nothing really profound came of the episode. I love the horror movie aspect of it, and the way it was shot and the tension... but really, you boil it down and it's super simple. The White Walkers show up, they fight, kill a lot of people, and are defeated (by Arya... I figured it'd be her -- now with Jaime still alive to kill Cersei, without any significant kills for Jon this season, he'll likely be the one to kill Daenerys when she goes nuts!). And that's that. It's the most basic, kneejerk outcome ever.

We didn't learn one new thing about the White Walkers, no secrets about them or any extra layers to their machinations, not anything. No last mystery card was played, they didn't plant any seeds as to stuff that may come or making us second guess things we thought we knew about them... nothing. And now they're wiped out entirely, like they never existed. I suspect this isn't at all the way Martin intended things to go, but I have no idea.

What was the point of Bran even warging in this? And the humans' plan of defense/attack was... very strange. They basically sacrificed the Dothraki entirely and for nothing. A lot of contrivances to explain away why Jon and Daenerys couldn't be in place strafing the battlefield with their dragons at key times.

In terms of who died, it was about as expected. Could have been a lot worse! With the Hound surviving, Clegain Bowl is still on the table, and with Jaime alive, so is him being the last face Cersei sees in life. And with Brienne AND Tormund still standing, there's still hope for... that. Figured Gendry (and possibly Podrick) would be dead meat this episode, but it's good he was not. Definitely saw Jorah dying... this is one big step in Daenerys going nuts, I bet.

Still, that last moment with Arya jumping, screaming, and killing the Night King... gotta say. That was a true "F*** YEAH!!!" moment. And well deserved.

[joe-eyeball]

I think the profound meaning of the episode will be that they all had to work together to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to live. Cersei represents everything that is wrong with being a supreme ruler and that one person sitting on the iron throne is the problem. I’d bet money there will not be an iron throne by the end of all of this. Jaime will kill Cersei and become the Queen slayer because you know “the things we do for love.” Dany will probably die by Jon’s hand and nobody rules Westeros. Ultimately who knows? It’ll be interesting to see how they wrap all of this up in three episodes.

Also I’m bummed Jorah died even though I knew he would in this episode protecting Dany. My only disappointment was that Jon didn’t really do much but his time is coming I’m sure. Overall the pacing and mood of the episode was outstanding and it wasn’t too dark. If people really couldn’t tell what was going on its probably because they have struggled at keeping track of the six dozen main characters throughout the entire series!

[Andrew NDB]

Does anyone honestly still think Daenerys isn't going mad?

[joe-eyeball]

This last episode I for the first time was kind of bored with GOT. But this episode clearly is building towards the Mad Queen theory!

[Andrew NDB]

This last episode I for the first time was kind of bored with GOT. But this episode clearly is building towards the Mad Queen theory!

Totes.

And now... celebrities are going after the last episode because social justice in a fictional world:

https://tvweb.com/game-of-thrones-racial-insensitivity-rape-jessica-chastain-ava-duvernay/

[joe-eyeball]

Totes.

And now... celebrities are going after the last episode because social justice in a fictional world:

https://tvweb.com/game-of-thrones-racial-insensitivity-rape-jessica-chastain-ava-duvernay/

What absolute ridiculous BS! These idiot celebrities need to just shut their mouths and collect their millions for playing dress up! I mean the show with dragons and zombies and mystical crap doesn’t need to be an accurate analogy for a politically correct real world! Im now convinced Varys is going to sit on the iron throne as he has neither male or female genitals and might be bisexual so that all the bases are covered!

[Leo656]

It's like, nobody can even attempt to tell a story anymore, of any kind, because whatever they do is going to "trigger" someone. :roll:

Not enough non-white people? Not enough females? Not enough bisexuals/homosexuals/whatever-sexuals? Any plot points in which the characters behave in a scummy or even less-than-noble fashion? Anyone portrayed as a victim of abuse, even if they eventually persevere and overcome it? CONGRATULATIONS, your story is garbage and you're not allowed to tell it.

I remember the days when people just wrote from their heart (or whatever) and didn't have to sit down with a comprehensive "SJW Trigger Point Checklist" to make sure that their story was "acceptable". It's gotten pretty ridiculous.

[joe-eyeball]

Well episode 5 sucked big time! Can’t really say much more than that at this moment!

[ProphetofGanja]

Well episode 5 sucked big time! Can’t really say much more than that at this moment!

Yeah, they really sh!t the bed in this final season. Sucks, but oh well.

The Cleganebowl scene was good though, but everything else was a no for me dawg

[AT-Man]

I guess that was the best possible happy ending for this series. Starks standing/sitting tall was the only thing I ever wanted. Now do Arya's spin-off series in unknown lands.

[victory_angel]

I'm not entirely surprised by Daenerys's downfall. Even the books imply that she has the potential to become a crazed Queen. And we do see hints of her becoming tyrannical in her conquest to reclaim what she feels is her birthright. I also agree they should have done more with featuring her downward spiral into madness rather than just showing her just suddenly a crazy bitch and brushing it off as the defect of the Targaryen Genes.

I am aware that there was a mindset or an oath that if Daenerys cannot have the throne, then no one will and Drogan saw to that. But, my interpretation of that final moment was that while John killed her because she was too dangerous to exist as she was, it was truly the Iron Throne that destroyed her.

While the Dragons in the GOT universe are depicted as feral minded beasts, it has been often hinted and implied that they are also rather intelligent. Over the course of Westeros history from the moment of the Iron Thrones creation, people have suffered and died under its rule and also in the pursuit of it. Dany's herself has also lost herself to it proving that she also didn't deserve to claim the throne. So when Drogan appears, John knows that even though he is pissing himself in fear being face to face with Drogon. He also accept that if the dragon roasted him right then and there it would be a fitting end after he has just murdered the love of his life. But instead, Drogon lets him live with his pain and guilt and destroys the throne so that Westeros would be reborn with out it's influence.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess that was the best possible happy ending for this series. Starks standing/sitting tall was the only thing I ever wanted. Now do Arya's spin-off series in unknown lands.

Not gonna happen. For some reason they are terrified to do any sort of sequel series. The only things being pitched around are ancient prequel crap.

Cowards.

[Warhorse]

I guess that was the best possible happy ending for this series. Starks standing/sitting tall was the only thing I ever wanted. Now do Arya's spin-off series in unknown lands.

Might as well kiss that good-bye. For whatever reason, HBO president has come out and said forget about any sequels, and especially shot down an Arya spin off. GRRM talks about several developing spinoffs, and the same HBO president comes out and says they only have one pilot and will see how that goes, but he says he wants to get away from Game of Thrones and doesn't want it to be HBO's cash cow. So, there you have it. It's possible that Benioff and Weiss might have a clause in their contract that only they can work on the Song of Fire and Ice storyline and it's characters, so HBO is just trying to stick with the deal by supporting the showrunners publicly, that way they might come back if Star Wars doesn't work out.

[Andrew NDB]

George R.R. Martin gets blunt about show's ending:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/martin-gets-blunt-about-thrones-ending/

[Andrew NDB]

The pilot for the Game of Thrones prequel series was not picked up and that show is dead.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-prequel-series-with-naomi-watts-is-dead?fbclid=IwAR1I6oVWE82bLOqZYafvqXeXawwa1zzBogLo cP_bTdePhGhlMAgUFHW02q8

[Andrew NDB]

Peter Dinklage reflects on why people are mad at the end of Game of Thrones:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/dinklage-reflects-on-thrones-finale-backlash/

"They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together. By the way, it’s fiction. There’s dragons in it. Move on. [Laughs.] No, but the show subverts what you think, and that’s what I love about it."

I didn't want any "pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together." I was even greatly looking forward to Daenerys' turn to rageful evil as that seemed clear that was always going to happen. What I wanted even two or three of the ten giant loose ends teased in previous seasons paid off of and the last two seasons not seeming like ultra rushed synopses instead of actual stories the quality and craft as the previous ones.

[ProphetofGanja]

We forever have to accept that D&D sh!t the bed with the final season. Dinklage's comments were pretty annoying, but I figure he's completely out-of-touch with book fans or even show-only fans who were hoping everything that had been foreshadowed in the first 7 seasons to be paid-off or resolved to some extent