Bebop and Rocksteady Discussion Thread

[CyberCubed]

No matter how many endless animal mutants we get, how many mutant villains show up, how many mutant henchmen they give Shredder like Tiger Claw, Fishface, Rahzar/Tokka, Koya, Bludgeon (from IDW), or other random mutants there are....

Bebop and Rocksteady will always be the most popular and most iconic mutant villains of the series because they were the first.

http://www.poisonmushroom.org/content/uploads/2012/09/beboprocksteady.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/145984/3470100-0922902376-tumbl.png

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/ab/Bebop%26Rocksteady.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140501013812

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Bebop-Rocksteady-Human-Teenage-Mutant-Ninja-Turtles-2.jpg

http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924a0395cb1b5b9f03b7640d26eb.r91.cf1.rackcdn.c om/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/turtles-iv-bebop-rocksteady.jpg http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ntLw932TG5E/hqdefault.jpg

The classics.

[Mew]

Yes. They are the best mutant baddies. We should be thankful we are getting them in the Nick series, and in the 2016 movie. Nick could have just said f**k you to the fans and make a crap show with horrible one-off villains, but they try to, for the most part, develop the characters and not just make them a one-off thing. I hope Bebop and Rocksteady are not just one-off characters, but I don't think they will be in the future.

[TigerClaw]

Very true, Even if they were created strickly for the Fred Wolf series, They have been a part of pop culture for sometime, Even though they never appeared in the original comics, But they did show up in the Archie series comics.

[Netkeeper]

I've never been a big fan of them as characters. But I love their designs.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm glad the 4Kids show and Mirage comics never included them, because they don't belong in Mirage.

But Bebop & Rocksteady are ESSENTIAL characters in the TMNT universe, and I love them to death. The IDW series has made them even more awesome, because we finally get to see their true danger and homicidal mania. And yet, they name their sledgehammer and chainsaw... and pay for breakfast (from smashed ATMs, but hey, they're paying for breakfast). Oh, and they're not racist! (As Hob found out.)

Man, I love those doofuses. :tlol::tlol::tlol:

[bushido]

Am I the only one to think they suck and are overrated ?

[IndigoErth]

I was never overly impressed with them. 'Course, I never was/have been with any villain.

But they do own a seat in the franchise that others could never have.

[*NormalGamer*]

Rocksteady and Bebop are very fun characters in the 1987 TMNT cartoon. ^_^

I think it's great that they get an appearance in the IDW comics and in the TMNT 2012 show; love to see how well they can develop them in those series; from their character backgrounds to their personalities. :)

[CyberCubed]

Am I the only one to think they suck and are overrated ?

Compared to what, many of the generic mutants that came in after them?

I love what Nick has done with Rahzar (their version of Rahzar) and Fishface, and Tiger Claw is cool, but all the other one-off mutants are forgettable.

[shuriken]

Easliy the most memorable. And I love that they are brutal powerhouses in IDW, but indeed are dim witted menaces as well.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There have been a TON of mutants throughout the franchise, but there aren't many memorable ones.

Bebop and Rocksteady, Leatherhead, Slash.

And of course, DeviantArt tries to make an argument for the likes of Mona Lisa and Venus. :teek:

Every other mutant is usually restricted to just one series... and while there are definitely some standouts (Old Hob and Alopex from IDW; Fishface, Tiger Claw, and Dogpound/Rahzar from Nick), they haven't yet become what I would qualify as memorable.

[bushido]

Compared to what, many of the generic mutants that came in after them?

Why should I make a comparison ? That's what I think. Everybody love them and want to see them...except me. I admit IDW made them cool but that's the only exception for me.

[snake]

'K


tencharacters

[neatoman]

Am I the only one to think they suck and are overrated ?

No I agree, I like them well enough in the IDW series but they do still kinda suck. I think the real reason they got their icon status wasn't as much because of their personalities or actions, I think it's just because they have a pretty striking design and the fact that they were in most of the episodes of the FW cartoon.

When you really think about it, they're not interesting or important characters at all. They were just dumb henchmen in the cartoon who didn't contribute anything useful, same with the Archie series except Murphy understood that so he just dropped them off an alien planet to get them out of the way. As for the IDW series... Well I did like their Micro, funniest part of the entire series, but they still don't contribute much and I get the general feeling they're just there so they can be put on covers. We don't fully know how they are in the Nick cartoon, but to me it seems they have been treated as blank slates because they have very little to do with the old characters...

In summation they're really only iconic because people remember them as part of the status quo, they only show up in modern incarnations to make the Fred Wolf fans feel comfortable.

[Netkeeper]

Yeah, IDW's version of them isn't too bad. But I never liked their characterisation in the 87 show, which would be the only reason anybody would be super attached to them as characters. I liked their designs, but I never understood why so many people went crazy for two dumbass villains.

[Kingoji]

I got into TMNT through the Fred Wolf material, and here in the UK we only got so much of that show so it never quite became the weekly mutant-fest that I understand it came to be for the rest of the world, so Bebop and Rocksteady will always be a huge part of the franchise for me. So much so that when Secret Of The Ooze came out in those halcyon pre-internet days I had no way of knowing that those two shadows on the poster WEREN'T them until getting to see the film... and being kinda disappointed that it wasn't. And their continued absence in other iterations of the franchise was something it took me quite a while to get over (I wasn't upset, exactly, it was just always strange to me). I for one an extremely happy to see them not only making such huge comebacks, but also not being treated entirely as jokes.
I've said plenty of times before that outside of the four Turtles, Ninjara is my favourite character in the franchise. If I were pushed to go further, then Bebop and Rocksteady take joint fifth.

[neatoman]

Yeah, IDW's version of them isn't too bad. But I never liked their characterisation in the 87 show, which would be the only reason anybody would be super attached to them as characters. I liked their designs, but I never understood why so many people went crazy for two dumbass villains.

I think the majority of people only have a really vague memory of Bebop and Rocksteady.

I went to a convention two or three years ago where two guys geeked out over Bebop and Rocksteady toys. I asked them why they liked them and they replied with "we think they're cool", to which I said "Why? All they do in the cartoon is act like children" and they admitted that they had not watched the cartoon since they were kids.

So I don't think they're attached to Bebop and Rocksteady as much as they're attached to their memory of them, which seems to be very foggy.

[turtlefanforever]

So iconic! But kinda wish they stayed solely in the OT and TF movie

[Candy Kappa]

They are fun power-house bosses, but rather lackluster in the character department. I think IDWS really did a greT job of making them into compelling characters as well as badass adversaries.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

No I agree, I like them well enough in the IDW series but they do still kinda suck. I think the real reason they got their icon status wasn't as much because of their personalities or actions, I think it's just because they have a pretty striking design and the fact that they were in most of the episodes of the FW cartoon.

When you really think about it, they're not interesting or important characters at all. They were just dumb henchmen in the cartoon who didn't contribute anything useful, same with the Archie series except Murphy understood that so he just dropped them off an alien planet to get them out of the way. As for the IDW series... Well I did like their Micro, funniest part of the entire series, but they still don't contribute much and I get the general feeling they're just there so they can be put on covers. We don't fully know how they are in the Nick cartoon, but to me it seems they have been treated as blank slates because they have very little to do with the old characters...

In summation they're really only iconic because people remember them as part of the status quo, they only show up in modern incarnations to make the Fred Wolf fans feel comfortable.

Have you actually read the IDW comics? Believe me, they do more than contribute.

They totally shift the balance of power in the City Fall final fight, preventing the Turtles from claiming a full victory and forcing them into retreat; they further wreck EVERY OTHER MUTANT CHARACTER in the "New Mutant Order" storyline; and in March, it appears they will be brutally smashing Donatello to the point of total paralysis and having his consciousness downloaded to Metalhead as his only means of survival.

These guys are brutal wrecking balls of mayhem; weapons of mass destruction for Karai and Shredder to aim at the Turtles and then get out of the way as they destroy everything in their paths. They've survived gang fights, electrocution, gunfire, and collapsing buildings. They are DEATH INCARNATE.

Okay, maybe that's a little much. :tlol: But they're totally badass, wicked dangerous, and pretty damn funny to boot.

[pennydreadful]

Am I the only one to think they suck and are overrated ?

You're not alone in this. I won't deny that they're the most iconic and memorable of most of the mutant rogue's gallery, but I don't understand the love for them - I view them as dumb muscle. Not hating, I just don't understand why some fans think that they need to be included in every incarnation in the franchise. I don't find them all that interesting.

[Powder]

You're not alone in this. I won't deny that they're the most iconic and memorable of most of the mutant rogue's gallery, but I don't understand the love for them - I view them as dumb muscle. Not hating, I just don't understand why some fans think that they need to be included in every incarnation in the franchise. I don't find them all that interesting.

So iconic! But kinda wish they stayed solely in the OT and TF movie

All this, man. Def love the guys but I love them as things of the past. I don't like that they've been brought back in all the new versions (I say all because they've been confirmed for the second film). I mean, they work in their respective series, they look cool & all that stuff, but I just resent them & their inclusion because they're skeleton characters who typically only return for the sole purpose of appeasing casuals.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, IDW's version of them isn't too bad. But I never liked their characterisation in the 87 show, which would be the only reason anybody would be super attached to them as characters. I liked their designs, but I never understood why so many people went crazy for two dumbass villains.

Bumbling henchmen villains are staples of kids cartoons back then. Same with Team Rocket in Pokemon. You don't see much of this anymore because times have changed, but it was very common in the 80's and 90's.

Also I find a lot of their dialogue in the OT to be very funny depending on which episode it is.

[Xav]

But that's the thing it's not the 80's or 90's anymore. So I don't get why people are demanding that Shredder have bumbling henchmen.

[Jester]

Would it be too ridiculous to say.....

"This thread needs to be locked...."

Ok....title changed to something a little less Cybercubed-esque.

[THGhost]

Erm... duh? Was there ever any doubt? :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Ok....title changed to something a little less Cybercubed-esque.

Aw, you changed the title to make it more neutral. I liked my title better because I was stating my opinion as fact. I enjoy doing that.

[Netkeeper]

Aw, you changed the title to make it more neutral. I liked my title better because I was stating my opinion as fact. I enjoy doing that.
We've noticed. :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Aw, you changed the title to make it more neutral. I liked my title better because I was stating my opinion as fact. I enjoy doing that.


How very- Cubed of you. (Well, at least he's staying in character....)

I dunno, I always loved those two for the very reasons so many DON'T like them- their incompetence, their brutality, even their personalities. Sure, they were bumbling idiots, and little more than hired muscle, but they were FUN, and the lack of detailed background made it easy to imagine your own history for the pair. They were a bit like the Abbott and Costello of TMNT, which made them more interesting and enjoyable than most of the other mutant villains who have followed them.

[PangolinFeets]

I've always liked them because they made me laugh when I was a kid. IDW reignited my love for them. Their micro is probably my favorite because they're so damn funny. I love the running gag that Rocksteady thinks a Rhino is a dinosaur and refers to himself as a 'Rhinosaurus'.

They're just fun. I'd be all over an IDW B&R spin-off series where they just go on adventures.

[Jester]

I'll say one thing...I think Archie may have been the least kind to B&R.

[Coola Yagami]

I wonder how these guys are gonna fare in the new show since they are completely different characters. In the IDW, despite being powerhouses that just won't go down they still kept their main defining feature, their stupidity.

Steranko and Anton are far from stupid. Steranko is a boss-type being forced to work for a bigger boss and Anton is just... totally out there.... but not incompetent in the same way the classic Bebop was.

Point is, Rocksteady was not a Russian weapons collector and Bebop was not a breakdancing wild and crazy funster. I personally like them this way and embrace how different they are from past incarnations, but let's see what everyone else says. I personally like Anton's crazy style, and the only reason most people don't like is cause 'that's not Bebop', but whatever. Rahzar was never a martial arts movie star either.

[Coola Yagami]

I'll say one thing...I think Archie may have been the least kind to B&R.

Not really. They had a happy ending after all.

[CyberCubed]

Point is, Rocksteady was not a Russian weapons collector and Bebop was not a breakdancing wild and crazy funster. I personally like them this way and embrace how different they are from past incarnations, but let's see what everyone else says. I personally like Anton's crazy style, and the only reason most people don't like is cause 'that's not Bebop', but whatever. Rahzar was never a martial arts movie star either.

They're still the same characters in essence with new quirks. For all we know Rocksteady could have been Russian in the OT as well, at least they both have blonde hair. And Bebop is black with a purple mohawk and shades, so he's the same to me.

But it is a nice change that they're not just street punks for once. Even IDW kept them as street punks

[Jester]

Not really. They had a happy ending after all.
True, but they ended up kinda neutering them. They became kinda "mamby-pamby" in their Archie incarnations.

[shuriken]

Point is, Rocksteady was not a Russian weapons collector and Bebop was not a breakdancing wild and crazy funster. I personally like them this way and embrace how different they are from past incarnations, but let's see what everyone else says. I personally like Anton's crazy style, and the only reason most people don't like is cause 'that's not Bebop', but whatever. Rahzar was never a martial arts movie star either.

^^ Not crazy about their redesigns and backstory changes. Same with Rahzar. But meh. Love their IDW versions as well as their OT selves. Easliy the strongest villains in terms of Brute strength at this point. Maybe a bit behind Slash.

[Coola Yagami]

They're still the same characters in essence with new quirks. For all we know Rocksteady could have been Russian in the OT as well, at least they both have blonde hair. And Bebop is black with a purple mohawk and shades, so he's the same to me.

But it is a nice change that they're not just street punks for once. Even IDW kept them as street punks

I'm not talking appearance, I'm talking personality and character traits. Plus there's no way classic Rocksteady was Russian, that's really... realllllly stretching it pal. Looks aside, these are completely different characters. You can't see Steranko's episode in season 1 and straight up say 'yeah, that'd def gonna be Rocksteady'. You were probably the one arguing the most with everyone here when we were connecting the dots that Steranko was gonna be Rocksteady just because of the Russian accent.

They could have made Rahzar look exactly did he did in the movie instead of this bony mess, but it doesn't change the fact that movie Rahzar wasn't a Chuck Norris superstar.

I see people complaining about how Bebop is so skinny all over facebook. I bet they haven't even seen the Anton episodes. They're really gonna pitch a fit when Bebop starts breakdancing and firing off mohawk-shaped laser blasts.

I'm looking forward to seeing these two in action, but I know and understand that these are a whole new take on the characters. If I wanted 80's Bebop an Rocksteady in a modern setting, I'd read the IDW comics.

[senpai]

I've never been a huge fan of Rocksteady and Bebop but, for some reason, I was super hyped when I saw them finally make their debut in the '12 series. So much yes!!! I was waiting for them to show up!

[shuriken]

^^ I was kinda hoping they didn't make an appearance to be honest. I get its a different take on the characters but I dunno. Haven't seen anything past the Chimera episode so I'll wait before passing judgment.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

^^ Not crazy about their redesigns and backstory changes. Same with Rahzar. But meh. Love their IDW versions as well as their OT selves. Easliy the strongest villains in terms of Brute strength at this point. Maybe a bit behind Slash.

Slash got taken out like a punk. That sucked.

Personally, call me a foolish optimistic, but I am excited to see what Bay's sequel next year will do with Bebop and Rocksteady. I know all of you guys hated the Turtles' designs, but I loved them. Well, except for the fact that they were stupidly large... and that Donny wore glasses because NERD.

[senpai]

I didn't even know they were doing a 2nd TMNT movie until I joined the forums. I didn't like the movie at all ;-; But since I am a sucker for TMNT, you can bet I'll be in the theaters the day it comes out...

[CyberCubed]

Aside from Mirage, Bebop and Rocksteady have appeared in virtually every series:

- Original cartoon their debut
- 4kids: Turtles Forever
- Nick: Bebop and Rocksteady mutated in Season 3
- Archie TMNT: They're in the beginning and get a final story arc #22-25
- IDW: Bebop and Rocksteady have become major new villains

And if they are in the second Bay movie they'll make it into the movies for the first time.

[snake]

Aside from Mirage, Bebop and Rocksteady have appeared in virtually every series:

- Original cartoon their debut
- 4kids: Turtles Forever
- Nick: Bebop and Rocksteady mutated in Season 3
- Archie TMNT: They're in the beginning and get a final story arc #22-25
- IDW: Bebop and Rocksteady have become major new villains

And if they are in the second Bay movie they'll make it into the movies for the first time.
Trust me. They'll make it into the next PD movie.


It won't be pretty.

[Powder]

Aside from Mirage, Bebop and Rocksteady have appeared in virtually every series:

Don't they have a one panel cameo of sorts in an issue of Tales? The one with some Archie crossover content, I think.

[CyberCubed]

Don't they have a one panel cameo of sorts in an issue of Tales? The one with some Archie crossover content, I think.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Wasn't it in one of the Cowboy of Moo Mesa issues? There's a brief panel that shows Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady...assumingly the Archie versions since Cudley the Cowlick is in those issues.

[Xav]

Rahzar was never a martial arts movie star either.Rahzar was a movie star?

[neatoman]

Rahzar was a movie star?

Well he was created for a movie.

[Mew]

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/b/b1/Bebop_and_Rocksteady_by_Basshole.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130927200049
That's sweet artwork! Its by Basshole.
Here's the link: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/b/b1/Bebop_and_Rocksteady_by_Basshole.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130927200049

[Mick]

I find them be entertaining in the original series. I like their stereotypical Brooklyn accents. :tlol:

[neatoman]

So here's a question, in early artwork by Peter Laird it appears that Bebop and Rocksteady were initially inteded to be samurai:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bLaSJk-pyFg/SrDvmiqj0gI/AAAAAAAACAY/AxQb7ctOawc/s1600/mutants+for+Playmates+sm.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bLaSJk-pyFg/SSgvx59EzVI/AAAAAAAAA9M/9XnteRq1bYg/s1600/hovertrike+sm.jpg
And there's also a sketch from Laird depicting Rocksteady a bit closer to what he ended up looking like:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bLaSJk-pyFg/STAjOlAmWJI/AAAAAAAAA-8/xBxcO14BMpk/s1600/rhino+mutant+rough+sm.jpg

So why the change?

[CyberCubed]

Because Bebop and Rocksteady being samurai would make no sense? They were street punks with guns.

[neatoman]

Because Bebop and Rocksteady being samurai would make no sense? They were street punks with guns.

...You understand that when Peter Laird drew those there was barely any fully formed ideas about what the characters would ever become, right? The street punk idea does not seem to have entered the picture until later in the process.

So why go from samurai to street punk?

[slashpieturtlemix]

I love bebop and rocksteady because they were goofy and serious at the same time. It was the perfect appeal for the cartoon. They are introduced as bada--es and then they get goofier over time lol love it

[Allio]

IDW version of them is easily the best. Don't like their 87 counterparts. and Nick version are okay.


Also, Blood Sucker is easily the best mutant.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D-yuyrogavk/UZ_noNYKVOI/AAAAAAAAALU/FGaAhfZaYZw/s1600/tmnt+25.jpg

I mean, it's a leech in a park ranger outfit. how is that not awesome?

[TurtleTitan97]

Not really as big of fans of these two as I used to be. Outside of their early appearances, I wasn't a fan of how dumbed down they became.

Thankfully, that doesn't appear like it will be an issue in the Nick series, since this version of them have higher IQs compared to the originals.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

IDW version of them is easily the best. Don't like their 87 counterparts. and Nick version are okay.


Also, Blood Sucker is easily the best mutant.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-D-yuyrogavk/UZ_noNYKVOI/AAAAAAAAALU/FGaAhfZaYZw/s1600/tmnt+25.jpg

I mean, it's a leech in a park ranger outfit. how is that not awesome?

Totally agree... really wish Bloodsucker could be brought back. That dude was creeptastic.

[Powder]

Totally agree... really wish Bloodsucker could be brought back. That dude was creeptastic.

Was your choice of words carefully chosen, or is it coincidence? I say this because Nick's The Creep is (whether or not they intended him to be) pretty much the same as Bloodsucker.

[Metalwolf]

Not really as big of fans of these two as I used to be. Outside of their early appearances, I wasn't a fan of how dumbed down they became.

Thankfully, that doesn't appear like it will be an issue in the Nick series, since this version of them have higher IQs compared to the originals.Yeah, same here. Sometime in the 87 cartoon they started becoming almost too dumb to live, just about reaching the top of that when they were in Turtles Forever. I'm thinking that these Nick guys will be a lot better, simply because they seem to have more character and aren't infuriatingly stupid.

[ProactiveMan]

I like Bebop and Rocksteady a lot. I love their designs, and their names and I like that they're not too bright. The OT went way too far in that regard, but they have to be a little dim for the Turtles to stand a chance against huge, machine-gun toting man-animals.

It's definitely a nostalgia thing, but not completely. I think they remain popular in part because their look and names are original and tastefully done. By that I mean as opposed to naming them Hornhead and Pigface or something. I like the Nick show and the 2k3 series, but Matrix style g-men and fluffy dogs and pussy-cat people are not particularly inspiring.

[Ravenshell]

I'm looking forward to a more competent Rocksteady and Bebop in Zeck and Steranko. I'm glad they're not just hired/mutated muscle this go 'round, and actually have separate personalities instead of being a pair of dunderheads that screw everything up. (being competent and still screwing things up now, though... that'd be a good running gag.)

Waiting for them to really open it up and show us what they've got this weekend... though I'm also hoping Zeck doesn't continue with the pig-squeal voice he had in Serpent Hunt. That's gonna make my ears bleed...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Was your choice of words carefully chosen, or is it coincidence? I say this because Nick's The Creep is (whether or not they intended him to be) pretty much the same as Bloodsucker.

:teek:

I never put it together, but you're right! It's as if Poison Ivy and Bloodsucker... never mind, not gonna finish that sentence.

Suffice it to say, plants... PLANTS EVERYWHERE.

[Allio]

Same with Team Rocket in Pokemon.

I think you mean the doronjo gang from yay thermal. They were the original

[neatoman]

So here's a question, why didn't Shredder make new mutant henchmen all the time? Clearly Bebop and Rocksteady were failures, so why not try again and again until he made some decent fighters?

I think you mean the doronjo gang from yay thermal. They were the original

What about the villains from Time Bokan? The Doronjo gang were pretty much the same characters with new names and outfits.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/timebokan/images/8/83/Time_Skeletons.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150112060247

[Powder]

:teek:

I never put it together, but you're right!

Some have suspected that The Creep is literally supposed to be a substitute for Bloodsucker, because Rick Veitch still owns the rights to the character & The River arc of the comics, in which he appeared. Ciro's a big fan of the original comics, so maybe he wanted to use him but was forced to create a replacement.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Some have suspected that The Creep is literally supposed to be a substitute for Bloodsucker, because Rick Veitch still owns the rights to the character & The River arc of the comics, in which he appeared. Ciro's a big fan of the original comics, so maybe he wanted to use him but was forced to create a replacement.

That sounds quite plausible... would make me accept the "you turned my brother into a plant" idea a little easier, too. :tlol:

[ranger_scout]

These two are part of the reason why the original series was so iconic. They were like the American and mutated versions of Horace and Jasper from 101 Dalmatians. Cam Clarke and Barry Gordon's voice acting from them was sheer perfection. I really can't think of two better animated henchmen. Cowabunga Shredhead was their finest episode. They accomplished something and later celebrated their victory very humorously and brilliantly.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VexzaxVbyAo/Tmb9g98gCDI/AAAAAAAABIQ/q0m-ocJpziE/s1600/shredhead14.jpg

I cannot wait to see them in the 2016 film.

[MikeandRaph87]

I saw this on my Yahoo! News feed and thought I would post it. It covers Bebop and Rocksteady being dusted off the shelf with the Viacom buyout and coming back in a big way in various iterations.

https://games.yahoo.com/news/tmnt-why-bebop-rocksteady-awesome-215700619.html

[shuriken]

Slash got taken out like a punk. That sucked.


Just got my hands on that comic and It was awesome. They are such powerhouses its not even funny. Bullets and electrical shocks are a minor inconvenience to them.

[oldmanwinters]

I saw this on my Yahoo! News feed and thought I would post it. It covers Bebop and Rocksteady being dusted off the shelf with the Viacom buyout and coming back in a big way in various iterations.

https://games.yahoo.com/news/tmnt-why-bebop-rocksteady-awesome-215700619.html

I thought that was a pretty well done article!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I saw this on my Yahoo! News feed and thought I would post it. It covers Bebop and Rocksteady being dusted off the shelf with the Viacom buyout and coming back in a big way in various iterations.

https://games.yahoo.com/news/tmnt-why-bebop-rocksteady-awesome-215700619.html

That was a GREAT article. Wish I'd written it! :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

LOL, did you guys read the comment section in that article? People talking about how the Nick show sucks or how, "Ugh, I prefer the originals" or how Bebop is too skinny or how "this isn't the TMNT I grew up with."

LOL, such idiots in the comment section.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

LOL, did you guys read the comment section in that article? People talking about how the Nick show sucks or how, "Ugh, I prefer the originals" or how Bebop is too skinny or how "this isn't the TMNT I grew up with."

LOL, such idiots in the comment section.

Only read/post comments (or join forums) if you are prepared to deal with such idiots. They are inevitable. :tlol:

Someone should update the old saying "Two things in life are constant: death and taxes." 'Cause it's totally three.

[MikeandRaph87]

That was a GREAT article. Wish I'd written it! :tlol:

Why don't you take a crack at it!? You can write up an article of your own design and post it here. Yes, seriously. I was just surprised to see Bebop and Rocksteady headlined on Yahoo!.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Why don't you take a crack at it!? You can write up an article of your own design and post it here. Yes, seriously. I was just surprised to see Bebop and Rocksteady headlined on Yahoo!.

Actually, I'm planning on trying to do a critical evaluation of the 1990 TMNT movie against the 2014 TMNT movie. Finished coming up with a rough points/grading system earlier today, so hopefully I'll be able to use it sometime next week...

I did try to get a gig over at WhatCulture.com, but I never heard back from them. Oh well, more time to focus on my own original fiction.

Now, back to the Bebop & Rocksteady discussion thread!

How do you think they'll be defeated (or escaped from) in upcoming Issue #44? :tgrin:

[MikeandRaph87]

Actually, I'm planning on trying to do a critical evaluation of the 1990 TMNT movie against the 2014 TMNT movie. Finished coming up with a rough points/grading system earlier today, so hopefully I'll be able to use it sometime next week...

I did try to get a gig over at WhatCulture.com, but I never heard back from them. Oh well, more time to focus on my own original fiction.

Now, back to the Bebop & Rocksteady discussion thread!

How do you think they'll be defeated (or escaped from) in upcoming Issue #44? :tgrin:

We do not know where the new team of Nobody (Angel) and Alopex are at the moment, do we? I can see them using Nobody's suit technology to chase them off like before.

A critical analysis for fun? I thought my paper writing favoritism was unique.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

We do not know where the new team of Nobody (Angel) and Alopex are at the moment, do we? I can see them using Nobody's suit technology to chase them off like before.

A critical analysis for fun? I thought my paper writing favoritism was unique.

And Nobody does work for Harold, and as Harold can see s*** is about to go down, he's totally gonna call in the cavalry. Probably Alopex holds off Bop and Rock while Alopex spirits a comatose Donnie away from the battle...

I don't normally, but I'm curious to see how they hold up to each other based on criteria I assign and evaluate. Thinking it'll be fun! (If controversial, as I have a less hostile view towards 2014's movie than some of us here...)

[Autbot_Benz]

LOL, did you guys read the comment section in that article? People talking about how the Nick show sucks or how, "Ugh, I prefer the originals" or how Bebop is too skinny or how "this isn't the TMNT I grew up with."

LOL, such idiots in the comment section.

I hate those kind of comments & the ruined my childhood comments are the worst

[MikeandRaph87]

And Nobody does work for Harold, and as Harold can see s*** is about to go down, he's totally gonna call in the cavalry. Probably Alopex holds off Bop and Rock while Alopex spirits a comatose Donnie away from the battle...

I don't normally, but I'm curious to see how they hold up to each other based on criteria I assign and evaluate. Thinking it'll be fun! (If controversial, as I have a less hostile view towards 2014's movie than some of us here...)

I have wrong a lot more than right in guessing's developments but this one I think is a safe bet.

I have my own bones to pick about it as far as actor choices and poor utilization of secondary characters though it could have been worse. I do like it better than the 2007 CGI film. Hope one day something will equal the 1990
and 1991 films.

Post your final draft here in its own topic thread if you would.

[ranger_scout]

Comicbook.com listed Bebop and Rocksteady in their The Top 5 Comic Book, TV, and Movie Minions.

http://comicbook.com/2015/07/08/the-top-5-comic-book-and-tv-minions/

[Ceres]

I would have prefered it if those two didn't came back in the Nick version of TMNT. Better good memories of these two dunderheads from the old cartoon as the abominations they are now. An anorexic warthog with a voice which makes your ears bleed and a russian rhinoceros with a favour of crushing heads like blueberries(well i have to say Rocksteady had the better end of this deal though characterwise and also his voice is o-kay for his role)

Bottom Line is, i can totally understand people who have a nostalgic feeling for them and do still like them because i feel the same way. And i am not afraid to say that.

I also hope that in the 2016 Movie of TMNT their personalities are pretty similar with the old cartoon versions because these are the funniest and the best in my personal opinion :)

[Autbot_Benz]

Sorry The Nick Versions are far superior to the Fred Wolf Idiots. They actually pose a threat and don't act like stupid pea brains for a change. Russian Rocksteady is just awesome and Gangsta Skinny Bebop is funny.

[Ninturtle]

Sorry The Nick Versions are far superior to the Fred Wolf Idiots. They actually pose a threat and don't act like stupid pea brains for a change. Russian Rocksteady is just awesome and Gangsta Skinny Bebop is funny.

And they also can be funny with out being stupid. The changes made actually makes sense and are really good.

[Autbot_Benz]

And they also can be funny with out being stupid. The changes made actually makes sense and are really good.

agreed that is why I like Nick Bebop and Rocksteady more than Fred Wolf they can be serious and funny without being stupid. Nick Bebop makes me laugh.

[Powder]

They are too pea brains... & how exactly is Bebop "Gangsta"? Do tell.

[Ceres]

agreed that is why I like Nick Bebop and Rocksteady more than Fred Wolf they can be serious and funny without being stupid. Nick Bebop makes me laugh.

And they also can be funny with out being stupid. The changes made actually makes sense and are really good.

subjective matters i say. I don't think so but its cool, your opinion and stuff. Do like what you want lol. I just don't like how many people get harrassed here for voicing their opinions about certain topics. They are entitled as stupid and what not, why can't you let them have their way? Does it hurt you in any way?

I could also arguing with you that Nick Bebop is the most annoying character ever and will be always for me but i accept your opinion, so please accept others as well. This goes not only to you but to all the others out there too :)

[Autbot_Benz]

They are too pea brains... & how exactly is Bebop "Gangsta"? Do tell.

what I mean by Bebop is Gangsta is the way he talks in rap and body movements

[Powder]

None of that is "Gangsta".

[Ninturtle]

what I mean by Bebop is Gangsta is the way he talks in rap and body movements

That's not exactly gangsta.

Edit: Powder said it first

[PangolinFeets]

http://i.imgur.com/AaxpQEO.jpg

Did I mention I like these guys? <3

[Ceres]

http://i.imgur.com/AaxpQEO.jpg

Did I mention I like these guys? <3

now that's what i am calling a great cosplay lol.

[PangolinFeets]

Ha ha, thanks. It's my favorite cosplay I've done.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Ha ha, thanks. It's my favorite cosplay I've done.

Which one were you?

[Commenter 42]

https://jeffreyklyles.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/c2e2-cosplay-bebop-and-rocksteady.jpg?w=600

[PangolinFeets]

Which one were you?

I was Bebop, my sister is Rocksteady, my friend is Shredder. I talked them into it so I could be Bebop. XD

Here's another picture where you can see the costume a bit better. I don't really have any good pictures of it.

http://i.imgur.com/0gtscEb.jpg

https://jeffreyklyles.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/c2e2-cosplay-bebop-and-rocksteady.jpg?w=600


Ha ha ha, they're awesome. I wish I had better make-up/sewing skills. This is one of the contestants from Face Off. He and his girlfriend always do amazing costumes, but this takes the cake.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/00fdbf475f65ce5f479ec4281a039a86/tumblr_mrmqxzN8cH1ru5hgmo1_500.jpg

[mikey22]

if the rock had his helmet for the entire run he would have been wayyyyy better!

[Leofan26]

These guy's are supposed to be in the second film right? Wonder how they'll be handled in that one compared to the Nick version?

I'm not exactly the biggest fan of these characters.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was Bebop, my sister is Rocksteady, my friend is Shredder. I talked them into it so I could be Bebop. XD

Here's another picture where you can see the costume a bit better. I don't really have any good pictures of it.

So did you make all three costumes, or are your friend and sister as skilled as you? Also, about how much did it all cost?

[ranger_scout]

I would have prefered it if those two didn't came back in the Nick version of TMNT. Better good memories of these two dunderheads from the old cartoon as the abominations they are now. An anorexic warthog with a voice which makes your ears bleed and a russian rhinoceros with a favour of crushing heads like blueberries(well i have to say Rocksteady had the better end of this deal though characterwise and also his voice is o-kay for his role)

Bottom Line is, i can totally understand people who have a nostalgic feeling for them and do still like them because i feel the same way. And i am not afraid to say that.

I also hope that in the 2016 Movie of TMNT their personalities are pretty similar with the old cartoon versions because these are the funniest and the best in my personal opinion :)

I enjoy the Nickelodeon versions of the characters just as much as I enjoy the original versions. Plus, I liked that it was Leo and Mikey who rescued the others from those two. I was waiting for those two brothers to go on a mission by themselves for a while now and when it happened it could not have come at a better time.

[CyberCubed]

I made this thread like 11 years ago and it still holds true today, no mutant duo ever surpassed Bebop/Rocksteady in mainstream popularity. They're also now in the majority of TMNT universes:

- Original cartoon: obviously, it's their debut

- Archie TMNT Adventures

- 2k3 series (technically with Turtles Forever)

- IDW TMNT

- Nick 2012 cartoon

- Mutant Mayhem/Tales of the TMNT

- Konami videogame universes

- Platinum Dunes movies, as much as I hate those movies


Besides Mirage, the only universes they weren't in were the original 90's movie trilogy and Rise of the TMNT oddly enough.

[Andrew NDB]

I think the only interesting use of them in anything, ever was how Murphy handled them in the Archies.

[ToTheNines]

I think the only interesting use of them in anything, ever was how Murphy handled them in the Archies.

Really? I thought they were even more annoying than their FW counterparts. They were used much more sparingly, but I hated that overly stupid dialogue he always wrote them with. And it’s not like they ever had an actual arc or anything.

I did like the way he wrote them out, as well as their return in “Paper or Plastic?”

[Andrew NDB]

Really? I thought they were even more annoying than their FW counterparts.

I didn't say it was much but it's still better than "Youse boss gits toilet soup!" or empty-headed whatever. Their very existence reduces the credibility of whoever is holding their reins at a given moment. And bottom line, if you HAVE to make the Turtles even more less unique and add to the mutant population for some reason, Bebop and Rocksteady are pretty much the piss poorest reasons for anyone to do so.

[neatoman]

Are we seriously discussing whether the Archie or FW version of Bebop and Rocksteady are more annoying? They're both equally dumb, overly incompetent, needless bird brained abominations. And I honestly can't tell the two of them apart half the time because I don't go by motion or sound, I go by amount of pain in my ass, which makes them both identical. Alright, everything resolved? Everybody nice and certain about their position?

[Heyowakka]

Not me, but only because they make you so angry. I like Bebop and Rocksteady, I think they’re funny.

[CyberCubed]

And I honestly can't tell the two of them apart half the time because I don't go by motion or sound, I go by amount of pain in my ass, which makes them both identical.

Rocksteady is white and Bebop is black, so that's one difference!

In the original show at least, Rocksteady tended to be more of a leader and Bebop tended to agree with what he said most of the time. Rocksteady was like, "It's Turtle trashing time!" and Bebop was like, "We're gonna pulverize you shellbacks!"

[Andrew NDB]

Rocksteady is white and Bebop is black, so that's one difference!

Nobody remembers which one was black and which one was white when they were humans for 5 seconds in the first episode. Their fans just remember the toys and the catchphrases and the voices and forget or deliberately look over their complete incompetency on every level.

[ToTheNines]

I might be crazy, but does anyone else remember Tristan Jones revealing a pitch he was working on where he was going to have a rhino and warthog get mutated at the zoo or something? I remember him saying they would just be mindless beasts the turtles had to deal with. I’ll see if I can dig this up.

Not me, but only because they make you so angry. I like Bebop and Rocksteady, I think they’re funny.

Yeah I think you either love the show or hate it. It is what it is and they’re a part of the cast. I still love the show obviously, and they have plenty of funny moments. I guess I do resent the fact that subsequent versions have felt the need to include them just because.

- I definitely used to like the IDW versions. It’s hard to look back fondly on any of it at this point, and when they pop up now it’s just kind of boring and played out.

- The 2012 versions were supremely annoying and overused once they debuted.

- That godforsaken movie sucked ass. (Am I talking about OotS or MM? You decide!)

- I missed this upon my first reading of TLR: The Lost Years, but human versions of them are Purple Dragons in a flashback where they get killed after they try to kill April.

https://i.imgur.com/smemeZO.jpeg

[neatoman]

- The 2012 versions were supremely annoying and overused once they debuted.
And completely pointless, the show already had a bunch of mutant henchmen for Shredder, though I can't tell if it happened because Playmates wanted more action figures, if Paramount demanded they should be there after a while or if the writers genuinely wanted them there. The show did however take a longass time to produce new episodes, so I doubt they ever had any time to base their newfound prominence on audience engagement, in turn I'm just going to assume they stole so much time from the established characters because someone made a pre-emptive decision and just assumed the audience would react well to them. Kinda like how Tiger Claw ended up being like a reverse Boba Fett in terms of popularity, but least the false impression that Bebop and Rocksteady ever actually mattered because the FW cartoon kept using them is a thing, so the decision makes a bit more sense than "please love out super-duper-mega-cool-awesome-tiger-OC".


- That godforsaken movie sucked ass. (Am I talking about OotS or MM? You decide!)

Well, MM is the movie where they're just kinda there and blend in with the other pointless characters and probably wouldn't leave any sort of impression on any kids whose first exposure to TMNT would be that movie. If the reason Bebop and Rocksteady keep getting artificially propped up no matter how irrelevant they are in general wasn't a factor, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just forgotten about in the sequel, they were basically almost forgotten about in the cartoon (didn't even get actual dialogue).

OotS essentially has them be the main characters for no reason despite being written in a super annoying way... And get a dick joke... Their entire role in that makes me wonder why the writers, director, producers and actors never stopped and thought "Maybe these characters are terrible and we ought to change them?".

So... OotS?


- I missed this upon my first reading of TLR: The Lost Years, but human versions of them are Purple Dragons in a flashback where they get killed after they try to kill April.

https://i.imgur.com/smemeZO.jpeg

And by existing just for the purpose of getting killed like they're nothing and don't even remotely matter, that makes them the best version of Bebop and Rocksteady by default. Just like the IDW version of Vernon.

[Heyowakka]

Sometimes I think Neatoman may be my evil universe doppelgänger. Or maybe I’m the evil one? Nah, definitely Neatoman. No good person could ever hate Vernon Fenwick, Ace Reporter!

[CyberCubed]

I liked the 2012 versions, I don't think they were overused. They appeared every so often toward the second half of the show and it's not like Rahzar/Fishface weren't getting redundant/beaten up all the time anyway. We just would have had more repetitive Rahzar/Fishface fights if say Bebop/Rocksteady were never introduced in the show.

[Andrew NDB]

In any universe where we're to take the "Ninja" part of TMNT remotely serious, they can't exist. Or exist for very long.

I might be crazy, but does anyone else remember Tristan Jones revealing a pitch he was working on where he was going to have a rhino and warthog get mutated at the zoo or something? I remember him saying they would just be mindless beasts the turtles had to deal with. I’ll see if I can dig this up.

I remember him saying something about just Bebop (not Rocksteady) showing up. Somehow. I don't remember now really. Some kind of multiversal something. This might be a separate attempt by him entirely but it was vetoed.

[Heyowakka]

In any universe where we're to take the "Ninja" part of TMNT remotely serious, they can't exist. Or exist for very long.

https://i.imgur.com/lMucpGW.png

[ToTheNines]

I remember him saying something about just Bebop (not Rocksteady) showing up. Somehow. I don't remember now really. Some kind of multiversal something. This might be a separate attempt by him entirely but it was vetoed.

Bumped it in another thread, but here it is for the sake of this thread’s discussion:

Sorry if I'm digging up an old thread, but just to clarify, what I wanted to do with B & R isn't quite what people are getting at here. Here's what I pitched. Pete dug it, but still, I don't think the idea of the two appearing in the Mirage comics appealed. Which is fair enough... read on. The idea was that it would be a con exclusive or a special one-shot specifically for the anniversary... an optional-canonical comic.

We open in another dimension (Caption: NOT Dimension X…), where the two massive brutes are being pursued by authorities in an intense car/other-dimensional-vehicle chase! Suddenly, a vortex starts opening in midair just ahead of them…

Cut to our world, where a Foot Mystic and a band of renegade Foot ninjas are trying to open up a portal to the Netherworld (to summon a demon to help them against the Turtles). Unfortunately, the mystic has misinterpreted one of the symbols in the spell used to open the portal correctly. A portal opens, but when the vehicle Bebop and Rocksteady had hi-jacked comes thundering out and pastes the mystic, it becomes very clear that it’s not the right one!

The rest of the Foot renegades scatter and Bebop and Rocksteady check out this strange new world they’ve stumbled into. They are massive too, at least twice the size of Leatherhead. A registered, costumed superhero flies down to try and stop the duo, but they pulverize him (in a comically brutal way, not to death, but there’s no way a normal human would be able to take it).

Cut to the Turtles’ lair, where Raph, Don and Mike are watching late night television (Leo is reading something). A sudden live news broadcast interrupts and reveals that Bebop and Rocksteady are tearing up midtown as police try and take them down.

After getting a call from April (who’s been caught in the midst of the carnage), they spring into action (they would be disguised somehow, either in gear similar to #36, or civilian clothing – long coats, etc.).

They pluck April out of the danger zone and get her to safety without being noticed, everyone seems too freaked out by the massive duo to care.
Mike notices that Karai and a band of her best warriors are on a nearby rooftop. They join her to try and find out what’s going on, and Karai reveals that a rogue mystic had recently stolen a tome from their archives containing spells/rituals that could supposedly open pathways to parallel dimensions. However, without the book they have no idea what spell/ritual was used, or how to send the two creatures back to where they came from. Don and Karai discuss their options and agree to try and come up with something together, but it means that Mike, Leo and Raph, along with the Foot warriors, will have to try and keep the dimension-hopping duo occupied.

As Mike, Leo and Raph fight Rocksteady and Bebop (taking a number of jabs at the old cartoon along the way), Karai and Don manage to put together a trans-dimensional portal using Leatherhead’s makeshift transmat device and various other bits and pieces Don has accumulated over the years. By channelling the mystic energies of a similar spell through the device, they are able to open a wormhole to another dimension (though not necessarily the one they came from).

The group lures Rocksteady and Bebop to the area above Leatherhead’s old lair (where the portal will open), but the two brutes realise they’re being herded towards a trap and start playing dirty. Don and Karai can only keep the portal open for a small amount of time, and with the brutes wise to the trap, the portal overloads the device that opened it.

At a loss for what to do, Mike suggests they call Renet, but none have any idea how to do that – considering she’s just appeared every time they’ve needed her. However, true to form, she does appear, having sensed a disturbingly large tremor in the space-time continuum. The guys fill her in, and Renet floats up towards Bebop and Rocksteady. She begins channelling her energies, chanting (similar to good ol’ Doctor Strange), but suddenly – WHAM! One of the monsters punches her into a building, sending the sceptre scattering off into an alley.

Don rushes to her aide while Raph, Leo, Mike and the Foot launch another assault on the pair. When it looks as though all is lost, Splinter suddenly arrives on the scene, standing quietly between the battle-weary warriors and the battle-ready monsters. The Turtles freak out, thinking Splinter has finally gone insane, and Bebop and Rocksteady find the situation hilarious. But Splinter has Renet’s sceptre!

Splinter mumbles something and suddenly the two are sucked into the sceptre itself!

With the city saved, Don returns with Renet. Karai tells them that she will help provide the funds to repair the damages caused in the chaos. (If you like the alternate ending, Mike could ask where Splinter sent them).

The turtles return home with their master, exhausted.

ALTERNATE ENDING (one final jab at the old cartoon):
We cut to find that Rocksteady and Bebop have been transported to a dusty, arid dimension, somewhat similar to the surface of Mars. They have been secured by hi-tech restraints and are being marched towards a gigantic construct by hulking soldiers who look similar to The Thing. They stop at the base of the construct, just in front of what appears to be large boarding ramp. “New prisoners for you my lord! We found them inside the forbidden zone.”
Bebop and Rocksteady look up, and we see a grotesquely obese Utrom, sitting in the torso cavity of a massive exosuit (think Obediah Stane’s “Iron Monger” suit compared to Tony Stark’s Iron Man suit). The Utrom grins: “Excellent!”

We zoom out for the final panel, revealing that the construct is disturbingly similar to a certain subterranean construct made famous by the old TMNT cartoons..


The End.


END NOTES: I thought it might be funny if the Mirage U Superheroes tried to fight the two, but would just get flicked away like annoying bugs, the only reason the Turtles manage to get their full attention is because Raph or Mike manages to throw either a sai, or a makeshift explosive up Rocksteady’s nose, pissing him off to no end.

The other thing I thought would be to not have any of Rocksteady and Bebop’s language be English, or even remotely recognisable. It would be alien gibberish, but we would be able to ascertain what they’re saying through visuals.

Finally, Rocksteady and Bebop’s names would never be uttered either, except in their native tongues (which we wouldn’t be able to read anyway).

[neatoman]

No good person could ever hate Vernon Fenwick, Ace Reporter!

I didn't say I hate him, I just said him never getting the chance to reappear after a single issue (and really more like a single page) simply made him the best version of the character by default.

[TylerD]

Not me, but only because they make you so angry. I like Bebop and Rocksteady, I think they’re funny.

Agreed. They added great comedic value to the show and comics. Have always like them. Bebop and Rocksteady Destroy Everything is a fun read

[CyberCubed]

I think Bebop and Rocksteady is also good autistic representation in TMNT. Back in the 80's and 90's people just thought Bebop/Rocksteady were "stupid" or "dumb" because we didn't have "labels" back then.

Nowadays people would assume Bebop and Rocksteady were on the autistic spectrum. And to any autistic people here reading this, we all know it's a wide spectrum that can cover all bases, so I'm not saying anyone who has it is like Bebop/Rocksteady.

[ToTheNines]

And completely pointless, the show already had a bunch of mutant henchmen for Shredder, though I can't tell if it happened because Playmates wanted more action figures, if Paramount demanded they should be there after a while or if the writers genuinely wanted them there. The show did however take a longass time to produce new episodes, so I doubt they ever had any time to base their newfound prominence on audience engagement, in turn I'm just going to assume they stole so much time from the established characters because someone made a pre-emptive decision and just assumed the audience would react well to them. Kinda like how Tiger Claw ended up being like a reverse Boba Fett in terms of popularity, but least the false impression that Bebop and Rocksteady ever actually mattered because the FW cartoon kept using them is a thing, so the decision makes a bit more sense than "please love out super-duper-mega-cool-awesome-tiger-OC".

Yeah, Dogpound and Fishface didn't really get a fair shake. It felt like the writers got bored with them.

B&R were probably a Nickelodeon mandate. Seems pretty clear when you consider the season they were mutated overlapped with the release of that dumb ass movie and they were doing a bunch of other cross-promotion with them (the Carmelo Anthony comic book special, Bebop and Rocksteady Destroy Everything, probably some other stuff I'm forgetting).

Well, MM is the movie where they're just kinda there and blend in with the other pointless characters and probably wouldn't leave any sort of impression on any kids whose first exposure to TMNT would be that movie. If the reason Bebop and Rocksteady keep getting artificially propped up no matter how irrelevant they are in general wasn't a factor, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just forgotten about in the sequel, they were basically almost forgotten about in the cartoon (didn't even get actual dialogue).

OotS essentially has them be the main characters for no reason despite being written in a super annoying way... And get a dick joke... Their entire role in that makes me wonder why the writers, director, producers and actors never stopped and thought "Maybe these characters are terrible and we ought to change them?".

So... OotS?

That is correct. Good work.

I didn't say I hate him, I just said him never getting the chance to reappear after a single issue (and really more like a single page) simply made him the best version of the character by default.

Vernon Prinole > Vernon Fenwick.

I think Bebop and Rocksteady is also good autistic representation in TMNT. Back in the 80's and 90's people just thought Bebop/Rocksteady were "stupid" or "dumb" because we didn't have "labels" back then.

Nowadays people would assume Bebop and Rocksteady were on the autistic spectrum. And to any autistic people here reading this, we all know it's a wide spectrum that can cover all bases, so I'm not saying anyone who has it is like Bebop/Rocksteady.

What are their special interests?

[ToTheNines]

Yeah I think you either love the show or hate it. It is what it is and they’re a part of the cast. I still love the show obviously, and they have plenty of funny moments. I guess I do resent the fact that subsequent versions have felt the need to include them just because.

I was thinking about this and it’s kind of surprising that you don’t see more casuals disliking Bebop and Rocksteady. If only for their overuse.

For example, I’m a casual Pokemon fan and I buckled down and watched every Indigo league/Orange Island episode a couple years ago. It was a pretty tough grind, and I blame most of that on the fact that EVERY damn episode had to have Jesse and James up to the same stupid bullshid.

They’re fun characters, especially with Meowth in the mix, but god damn the writers really spammed the hell out of them.

[CyberCubed]

It's probably due to the fact that they're not in every single episode (due to Shredder/Krang aren't), and it's basically known to be a kids show with bumbling henchmen.

I mean it's either that or Shredder/Krang create new mutants in every episode, which could have theoretically happened if the show was written differently and Shredder got two new mutant henchmen every couple of episodes.

[TylerD]

Not me, but only because they make you so angry. I like Bebop and Rocksteady, I think they’re funny.

Agreed. I like them too, and yes they are stupid and add comedic relief. You could definitely make them a bit more serious if you did a more intense dark TMNT movie. They were some of my fave scenes in the 87 classic.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I was thinking about this and it’s kind of surprising that you don’t see more casuals disliking Bebop and Rocksteady. If only for their overuse.

For example, I’m a casual Pokemon fan and I buckled down and watched every Indigo league/Orange Island episode a couple years ago. It was a pretty tough grind, and I blame most of that on the fact that EVERY damn episode had to have Jesse and James up to the same stupid bullshid.

They’re fun characters, especially with Meowth in the mix, but god damn the writers really spammed the hell out of them.

I also watched the first generation of Pokemon for the first time in a long time a couple of years ago when I bought the dvds. I enjoyed it quite a bit actually. Maybe I am just blinded by nostalgia. I am what the Pokemon community considers a genwunner (which is derogatory) because I only care about the first generation. It saves me money though, by not having to buy a new Pokemongame every 2 years.

[ZariusTwo]

I also watched the first generation of Pokemon for the first time in a long time a couple of years ago when I bought the dvds. I enjoyed it quite a bit actually. Maybe I am just blinded by nostalgia. I am what the Pokemon community considers a genwunner (which is derogatory) because I only care about the first generation. It saves me money though, by not having to buy a new Pokemongame every 2 years.

I get that feeling. I'm a gen one guy and didn't bother with the show on a regular basis after the second movie, tried Johto and it wasn't different enough, plus they kept the same cast. It's a bit like how the first five seasons of Power Rangers kept using leftovers from the MMPR era.

Not to mention Ash kept losing his major tournaments. Looking back, the second movie pretty much ended his story for me, You master all those legendary birds and save the world, and you're somehow not recognised as a master by that point?

[ToTheNines]

I also watched the first generation of Pokemon for the first time in a long time a couple of years ago when I bought the dvds. I enjoyed it quite a bit actually. Maybe I am just blinded by nostalgia. I am what the Pokemon community considers a genwunner (which is derogatory) because I only care about the first generation. It saves me money though, by not having to buy a new Pokemongame every 2 years.

Yeah, I'm also more or less a genwunner. I like all generations due to playing Go for years, but as far as the anime/cards/games, I don't branch out from Kanto too much.

The anime though... oof!

There were moments that were really awesome, but pretty much only because I was seeing stuff I hadn't seen in almost 25 years and it really took me back. Catching the few episodes I missed was interesting, especially the banned episodes. A couple of which I had to watch the Japanese versions, which was fun too.

But overall, it was a frustrating show to watch. Ash is an absolutely awful trainer lol. He just wins all his badges on wild technicalities. Even some of the good ones like the Volcano badge and the Thunder badge have stupid rules like 1v1. I feel like Squirtle would have whooped Blaine's Magmar pretty easily.

So then of course he doesn't even win the Indigo League, which felt like such a flat, anti-climactic ending. Then of course he goes on the win the Orange League tournament but it felt way too easy. There was zero tension and it just felt like Drake threw the match since he was just kissing Ash's ass the whole time.

Then there's the repetition. Team Rocket every single episode, Brock being problematically horny every single episode, etc.

I dunno, it's always been on my list of childhood shows to revisit and now I can say I did. The first 15 episodes were pretty great, Snow Way Out still rules, and a couple other strong ones are there. Like Zarius, I tapped out at the second movie. I can't fathom anyone watching the additional 900 or whatever episodes haha!

[CyberCubed]

I've seen all 1,200 episodes and all 23 movies, and the 50+ specials or so that went along with it. Ash does start off as a poor trainer with a lucky streak, that's the whole point of the first season. He does get somewhat better into Johto but then becomes a legitimately good trainer (for the animes standards), by the time you get into Hoenn and Sinnoh. Then by the XY anime Ash is basically a veteran trainer, then Sun/Moon basically changes his design but keeps his competence to reflect the more cartoony aspect of that season, and then Journeys was his final arc.

But yeah, Team Rocket stays for the entire 26 year run of the show, and it's just something you have to deal with. They do stop appearing in every episode by the BW anime, but they're always around every season.

Brock runs his course and they get rid of him again after DP for good (besides brief cameo returns), and of course the writers admitted they ran out of stuff to do with Misty by Johto. You could tell they just had her hold Togepi in most episodes and barely get a role unless the episode focused on water pokemon. It also didn't help that Takeshi Shudo, the original director, infamously hated shipping and basically killed Misty's crush on Ash and put his foot down on it ever happening lol.

[neatoman]

Can I ask, what would be funnier?

Bebop and Rocksteady being killed in their first battle without doing much?

Or

Bebop and Rocksteady dying of some unstable mutation thing like Senator Kelly in the first X-Men movie?

[ToTheNines]

I've seen all 1,200 episodes and all 23 movies, and the 50+ specials or so that went along with it.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnQrKaFI5z5FnDk1QWXarwgfu5bt37E 0oqeA-kS7u_nA&s=10

[neatoman]

Oh god, yeah. Yeah, I can imagine anyone bearing to watch all of the Pokémon anime.

I was like 4 when the anime started in Japan, here it started when I was 8, and I stopped somewhere in the Gen3 episodes because I got sick of how the main character never really progressed. He just kept doing the same badge collecting thing and never won the championship, the Gen3 episodes even had the gaul to not just let him continue training his previous Pokémon and gain an obvious advantage, which became a trend as I know and I presume was only done because GF/Nintendo wanted new Pokémon to get promoted. The little turd did eventually reach his goal in 2023, when was already 30. It literally took them from the time I hadn't really started elementary school yet until the year I earned my master's degree, how absurd is that?

[CyberCubed]

You expected him to win a league when he was a rookie? Ash's progression in the anime is actually very realistic, the only issue is it took 26 years (in real life) from 1997-2023 so of course most of the original fanbase outgrew the show, and then the kids who came in watching around the mid-2000's grew out of the target audience as well. That was basically the main issue, Ash became a different character for different kids depending on what demographic or which gen of Pokemon was your first.

But if you view it from an in-universe perspective, he got progressively higher in rank in each league he did until he eventually won. The only issue is as said, Ash started over with a new team every generation, so his previous Pokemon only came back every so often, while he used new captures (for each gen of games they were for) as it went on.

Besides that he did plenty of world saving in the show and of course each of the 23 movies were basically a villain or world-ending plotline, so he did plenty of "saving the day" moments outside the usual 8 Gym and league trek the series was based on.

[neatoman]

Hey, guess what? When I played Pokémon Red back as a kid, I managed to defeat the Elite Four after getting all eight badges. And you know what else? So did every other kid I knew. Which makes Ash a worse trainer than the average 6-10 year old gamer.

[ZariusTwo]

It also didn't help that Takeshi Shudo, the original director, infamously hated shipping and basically killed Misty's crush on Ash and put his foot down on it ever happening lol.

Yeah, but there were still plenty of 'writer revolts' where that was concerned and her absence actually made their relationship more interesting and mean more whenever she came back for guest spots, especially once they ditched Togepei.

Kind of wish the second episode of the final "To Be A Master" series for Ash had been the ending of the whole show because Misty and Ash finally reunite and walk off into the sunset together. Outside of some flirting, it wasn't outright romantic, but it's as close as we'd ever gotten to a resolution and a win.

[ZariusTwo]

Bebop and Rocksteady dying of some unstable mutation thing like Senator Kelly in the first X-Men movie?

MutAIDtion.

[TylerD]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnQrKaFI5z5FnDk1QWXarwgfu5bt37E 0oqeA-kS7u_nA&s=10

My reaction when I get back to work after a week off

[CyberCubed]

Hey, guess what? When I played Pokémon Red back as a kid, I managed to defeat the Elite Four after getting all eight badges. And you know what else? So did every other kid I knew. Which makes Ash a worse trainer than the average 6-10 year old gamer.

That's an absolutely terrible comparison. Of course in the games you're going to beat the game, that's what its intended for. The anime treats Pokemon as if its real-life in-universe, same reason Pokemon aren't stored on "PC's" in the anime and you need to actually feed the pokemon food as if they're animals. Any beginning trainer is not going to win their first league, or even their second, or third.

Especially when you realize the trainers all start as 10 year olds. Most Elite 4 and Champions are 20-30+ year olds in canon, it makes no sense for a kid to beat people double their age. That's like a 5th grader in real life knowing more than 30+ year old with a college degree and job experience.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I'm such a dork that like 6 years ago I bought Red when I already had Blue just to get all 150 pokemon without cheating (with some help from Pokemon Stadium). I can now be considered a Pokemon master.

[ToTheNines]

csa-UAr0DLg?is=C1QVTCYeh7bpM_pz

[Mad Dog McMutt]

That guy is pretty good at coming close to the actual voices of the characters.

[TylerD]

csa-UAr0DLg?is=C1QVTCYeh7bpM_pz

Stupid me didn’t read what it was about. Thought he was gonna do bebop lmao

[CyberCubed]

This thread needs to be locked.

[neatoman]

This thread needs to be locked.

Aw, but I was just about to ask how many people I would need to invite to a whole roasted Bebop feast.

[ToTheNines]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb8339FNvvUZxjR4pBxCigGD05nSvu_ cgghGt6E43w3g&s=10

[neatoman]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb8339FNvvUZxjR4pBxCigGD05nSvu_ cgghGt6E43w3g&s=10

QTJKZil3OaA

But we already knew they were.

[Heyowakka]

https://i.imgur.com/hYDwI5k.gif

[CyberCubed]

Remember, it was the 80's, back then nobody was really gay.

[ZariusTwo]

This thread needs to be locked.

"You better be nice to me, or I won't invite you to my wedding"

[neatoman]

Come to think of of it, if writers slowly phased out Bebop and Rocksteady in general instead of getting rid of them cold turkey, would anyone even notice or care like 10 years after they completely vanished?

[Heyowakka]

I would. How can you even ask such a thing on today of all days, the day of my grandmother’s wedding?

[CyberCubed]

Bebop/Rocksteady will never be forgotten. Even Rahzar/Tokka are forever immortalized due to the second movie.

It's actually Fishface/Dogpound and maybe Tiger Claw that may have end up being discarded after the Nick 2012 era if nobody else uses them again. None of them even appeared in the IDW comics after all this time.

[sdp]

Bebop/Rocksteady will never be forgotten. Even Rahzar/Tokka are forever immortalized due to the second movie.

It's actually Fishface/Dogpound and maybe Tiger Claw that may have end up being discarded after the Nick 2012 era if nobody else uses them again. None of them even appeared in the IDW comics after all this time.

I don't see Fishface and Dogpound appearing again, especially since Dogpound became Rahzar. Which is a shame but 2012 just had too many henchmen, it should've never used R&B even if they did a good job with them.

Tiger Claw I can definitely see appearing again, he is only one and can work in many different ways.

[cammy85]

When Mung brings up Shredder and Krang, he doesn't mention Bebop and Rocksteady. So lone is left to believe that Mung either forgot, Bebop and Rocksteady had split from Shredder and Krang, or they weren't as important to Mung's story and Dregg's conceived plan to bring them to Earth and drain their life energy. I wouldn't suggest that Mung forgot; just Bebop and Rocksteady were beneath Shredder and Krang and not not necessary to the overall story or plan.