Leo's sword theory

[victory_angel]

In Return to New York, Leo loses both his katana. One is broken and the other was dropped into the mutagen. A lot of people saw that and thought they were going to get a mutant sword or something. Except we see he magically gets both swords back in the next scene.

But maybe the swords were symbolic of something else. For example, Leonardo is dependent on his swords and like his swords Leonardo also depends on Raph and Donnie. Particularly in the current situation.

So maybe the swords were meant to be metaphorical foreshadowing for one brother being broken (I.E. Serious wounded, incapacitated, taken prisoner) and the other being lost (I.E. Turning to the darkside, killed,)

[THGhost]

Or it was just a nice little nod to the original 80s show, which did this sort of thing all the time. But I like your outside the box thinking. :P

[Gunpowder]

That's an awesome theory...will definitely make me re-think that scene the next time I see it. But I don't think it'll go that deep, sadly.

[TurtleTitan97]

Sounds a little far fetched, tbh.

[Powder]

Reaching. Definitely reaching.

[Ninturtle]

You're probably over thinking it.

[victory_angel]

Sounds a little far fetched, tbh.

Not that far fetched if you consider it.
The broken sword is caused when Leo is fighting Lobster Shredder. One of Lobster shredders claws cuts the sword in half and Leo responds by giving a rather distressed "Oh No"

We know the Donnie has put together some retromutagen for Karai, April's father, and the other unfortunately people of the city.

We also know that the Shredder wants a means to return Karai to human and there are a several mutants involved with the Foot-clan who would kill for the chance to be human again.

So logically if the Shredder learned there was some already made retromutagen in existence he would want Donnie targeted and captured so the retromutagen could be obtained.

However the Kraang also would see the existence of retromutagen as a threat to what they have been doing. So they would want to insure that the Retromutagen is destroyed and that it can't be created ever again.

The sword falling in the mutagen Leo cries out "No!" like he has this look on his face as though he just lost his best friend.

We had been mentioned at Comic Con that we will have a Dark Raph plot at some point. We know Leo has his own friendships with each of his brothers, but Raph is one he would classify as his best friend.

[TurtleTitan97]

Not that far fetched if you consider it.


I did consider it. And it still sounds pretty far fetched.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt Leo losing his swords, then gaining them again in the next scene is suppose to be "foreshadowing" or whatever. Sounds more like an animation error to me.

[IndigoErth]

Interesting, though leaning more toward the nod to just cartoons in general and the magic appearance/reappearance of stuff.

Or, as Donnie once answered to a related cartoon question, "I have theories... none of them pleasant."

[spookycookies]

Honestly it was just a means of drama. "Oh no Leo lost his weapon and is defenseless, how will he get out of this one?" Once the fight was resolved that tension didn't need to be there any more and his swords are with him as always. It's cheap but it worked for the story and then it didn't matter.

I would have liked for him to have actually lost his swords and have him focus on a bow for a little while. I really feel like that Spirit Quest equipment was only featured in order to sell more action figures.

[Tarris Vaal]

Nice theory, but it does sound like the kind of thing the writers did by accident for dramatic effect and then after someone points this out they think;

- 'Yes.... Yes. It was totally planned like that. I am awesome'. -

It does make you wonder just how extensive the turtles armoury is though

On the other hand if you are right I guess I owe you gyoza

[Candy Kappa]

Mistakes before render hasn't been uncommon in this show. Leo's swords and scabbards appear and disappear beteen scenes quite a few times, so I'd recon it's just a animation continuity error.

[THGhost]

Sounds more like an animation error to me.

I do hope it was deliberate, having a show in 2015 making this kind of error would be embarrassing.

[ToTheNines]

I do hope it was deliberate, having a show in 2015 making this kind of error would be embarrassing.

So dramatic...

Animation errors happen all the time in every show ever. Even live action shows and movies have little things like this if you pay attention.

[ssjup81]

I really like this theory and it's kind of plausible that both could happen (Donnie being targeted/Raph going dark)...but not in this case, I suppose...but it would be cool if that was the intention...but I guess the problem is that Leo does get his swords back. If he didn't, then I guess it'd hold more weight, but like I said, still a great theory.

I think it's just a legit animation error. In that Demon Car ep, Donnie broke his bo staff but in the Chimera ep, he had it back unless he and Mikey chopped down a tree and made a new one. There have also been times where Donnie's bo has been broken and the blade was conspicuously absent (Slash & Destroy).

[BubblyShell22]

I doubt Leo losing his swords means anything since he got them back. I mean, we know Raph's going to go dark at some point, but I don't think that Leo's sword falling in mutagen is a foreshadowing of that.

[THGhost]

So dramatic...

Animation errors happen all the time in every show ever. Even live action shows and movies have little things like this if you pay attention.

Not like this they don't. Letting this sort of mistake slide in 2015 is just unprofessional. :P

[Candy Kappa]

Not like this they don't. Letting this sort of mistake slide in 2015 is just unprofessional. :P

Not really when scenes can be made in a non-continuity order. Not every animator are probably aware what every minor detail should or shouldn't be on the Turtles.

Hence why Leo in one scene his sheathed swords are gone and in the next scene they are back, strapped on his shell. same goes for Donnie's Bo, Raph's belt and iirc Mikey's Nunchaku have done it as well.

Hiding and un-hiding polygon objects on your 3D models is in fact something that can be easily forgotten about, especially if you are working on a time schedule. Or happen by accident of the object is visible while working and animating, but have certain properties set on that makes the object invisible when rendering (been there when taking over a scene that someone else have been working on). Such error might not be re-doable with a new render since rendering can take hours even with a supercomputer.

Now, why would a object have settings tat makes then invisible while rendering?

That's fairly easy. either the character actually did not have the object(s) in a previous scene. or the object was given this property so that when you make a test render to see if the animation is a-okay, it makes the render go faster, since there are less stuff to render.

And, again. rendering takes hooours, it can literally take days if you are unlucky depending on many factors. And then there's the possibility something was not configured corrector in the render settings so it looks bad, or the rendered scene got corrupt, ooor the computer froze/blue screened while you where out.

[drag0nfeathers]

Just a random nod to you victory angel. I have to say I admire how deeply you look into so many aspects of the TMNT Universe. I lurked around here for a little while before I joined and then even a bit more before I started posting, but I've always very much enjoyed the way you look at things. Almost every post I have read of yours is always so thought provoking and you literally always hit the nail on the head with the degree of symbolism you pull from even the most mundane or otherwise overlooked details... sorry to gush all over you like a weird fan girl... just saying I enjoy your words nearly every time I read them. Bravo.

[leogan]

leo has lost of gotten his swords broke in lots of episodes so far. i wanna know is , do they have a forge in the lair to be making new ones ?
also i ran across a pict of leo that looks like a character design were it shows and states his swords are a daisho. short and long sword. both still being described as ninja-to (shorter and straiter than samurai katana).
in some episodes you can see it, other episodes they appear to be the same length but with one having a longer handle to hide the tanto knife.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/geremy0614/Leonardos_katana.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/geremy0614/media/Leonardos_katana.jpg.html)

[Candy Kappa]

The issue with Leo's daisho, is that the swords aren't scaled properly enough. The wakishazi should have been noticeable more shorter. Personally, I'm very pleased that Nick finally gave Leo proper swords instead of a pair of katana, since Leo haven't been can only been using a daisho since TMNT & Other Strangeness core book.

And I am extremely pleased they didn't go for the "ninja-to" trap, since there are no such thing as a straight bladed Nihonto named ninja-to, that's a pop-culture creation from the 1960's.

[leogan]

very true, i too was very pleased with this.
they still give the foot ninjas strait bladed ones. and karai,s also. if i were to custom a pair of swords to be leos id use a ko-katana, and a wakizashi.

[Candy Kappa]

Not familiar with ko-katana, I thought that was a small knife.

[leogan]

the word is more modern, but its a katana with full length grip and a blade shorter than normal katana. average katana have about 28 inch blade, very hard if not impossible to draw from your back. ko-katana or chisa-katana is another name I've herd used, have around 22-25 inch blade. with most wakizashis falling between 17-21,22 inch but with a single handed grip.
there is no evidence that the names were used in history but. there are antique katana that survived that fall into those measurements. there was also the sword laws tat one point that restricted length if you were not a samurai, and the short blade with full grip is thought to be for that class.
I'm no expert but i do like my swords and like to learn so i read all i can.
https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/36400
heres a link to a modern production of one, note it not me not my review.
but think it may be my next sword purchase.

[Candy Kappa]

Yeah, I did some reading on various sword forums. I think for simplicity he could just go full on with a pair of short swords (wakishazi or kodachi) all in all, looking at it realistically, since Leo most part dual wields his swords, it would probably be less straining using two short swords instead of a Longsword and short sword combo, even Niten-Ichi Ryu isn't as much dual wielding as it's commonly thought.

[leogan]

very good point about Niten-Ichi.
i mean i know this is a cartoon and fiction and sometimes i know i can over think the realistics of things, buts i can't help myself,lol.
it always bugs me when in film or cartoon when sue draws a full length sword of there back like it was no big thing. that is what lead me to think of the ko-katana and wakizashi together. being as the turtles are a bit shorter than an average size adult that either/both would be perfect for a ninja running around sewers and alleys and rooftops.