On the subject on "Nostalgia pandering".

[neatoman]

I noticed it got some discussion in another thread, so it might as well have it's own thread, The "pandering".

Personally I don't think it should be a problem in theory, the show is still based on characters and stories that have benn produced during a period of thirty years, no matter how much you try and make the show "for a new generation" it will still have to use some old concepts. And old concepts can always be presesnted in an elegant way for a new generation, the 4Kids managed to take the old comics that were pretty enjoyable but kind of amateurish and created a comprehensive well structured storyline with some new twists and turns to make it feel fresh, arguably one of the best animated shows of the 2000's (it still has some fundamental flaws that I admit exist). The problem is when it does not really fit with the new vision, when it's just shoehorned in without any regard of how it looks in relation to the story or what just plain works.

I have been on some sites that accuse me hating the "pandering" because it does not appeal to me in particular as a fan of the 4Kids series, even though I got a little giggly when they announced Hun that's not really the case at all, I just don't think anything should shoved into the show just because some adults have fond memories of it including myself.

Some examples here. Should a new character like Dogpound be turned into an old character like Rahzar when it changes nothing important about the character? Should Baxter Stockman really turn into a fly when it doesn't change his role? Should Bebop and Rocksteady really show up when Shredder already has four mutant henchmen? And then there's the controversial Fred Wolf scene, after already giving the Fred Wolf versions of the Turtles, April and Casey a gag cameo, the same two-parter ended with a scene of them that served no purpose other than to give a few lines to a bunch of old voice actors.

[Commenter 42]

I think they're just trying to bridge the gap. In my opinion, they get it right more often than they get it wrong, and in a few instances, have managed to turn out a better story.

I'll admit 2k3 happened long after my interest in them had faded, so going back now, that version doesn't draw me in, at all.

Pandering or not, it's made the series more enjoyable for me personally.

[Metalwolf]

I noticed it got some discussion in another thread, so it might as well have it's own thread, The "pandering".

Personally I don't think it should be a problem in theory, the show is still based on characters and stories that have benn produced during a period of thirty years, no matter how much you try and make the show "for a new generation" it will still have to use some old concepts. And old concepts can always be presesnted in an elegant way for a new generation, the 4Kids managed to take the old comics that were pretty enjoyable but kind of amateurish and created a comprehensive well structured storyline with some new twists and turns to make it feel fresh, arguably one of the best animated shows of the 2000's (it still has some fundamental flaws that I admit exist). The problem is when it does not really fit with the new vision, when it's just shoehorned in without any regard of how it looks in relation to the story or what just plain works.Totally agree.

I have been on some sites that accuse me hating the "pandering" because it does not appeal to me in particular as a fan of the 4Kids series, even though I got a little giggly when they announced Hun that's not really the case at all, I just don't think anything should shoved into the show just because some adults have fond memories of it including myself.I think they accused you of hating the pandering is because they like it, and therefor nothing is wrong with it because you just want to be contrary. However, even I as an OT fan got tired of it, simply because it started squeezing out what could have been for a direction the franchise had already gone. I do admit I was one of the early people who wanted Bebop and Rocksteady when the show first began, because I didn't think I could get behind the two new mutant henchmen that Shredder now had. But I got to like them, and they had a whole different personality to them which was refreshing.

Some examples here. Should a new character like Dogpound be turned into an old character like Rahzar when it changes nothing important about the character? Should Baxter Stockman really turn into a fly when it doesn't change his role? Should Bebop and Rocksteady really show up when Shredder already has four mutant henchmen? And then there's the controversial Fred Wolf scene, after already giving the Fred Wolf versions of the Turtles, April and Casey a gag cameo, the same two-parter ended with a scene of them that served no purpose other than to give a few lines to a bunch of old voice actors.

I don't mind Dogpound being turned into Rahzar, as this Rahzar is far different. He's more of an SotO character, and doesn't even look much like that old version. However I do agree with this point, Rahzar and Baxter should be different when they got mutated instead of it looking like nothing changed. I liked vicious mean fly Baxter, but I also wished that when the Turtles tried to help him that he would have listened, as it could have led to his redemption. Rahzar should have become more sadistic, as that looked like what he was going to be before he got nerfed.

Bebop and Rocksteady I'm torn about, but mainly because they don't look like they will be the annoyingly doofy OT versions (which is a good thing) but don't like because of how they were pushed to be included by some fans. I'm hoping they lead to something good, and this is the beginning of the downfall of Shredder.

And one last point, I forgot to mention that you brought up, I hate any of the straight on OT inclusions. I hated Wormquake, I didn't think it really contributed anything when they had that OT cameo, and the only thrill I got out of it was Tigerclaw beating the tar out of the OT Turtles. Not that I hate the OT, but I think this kind of OT pandering (the kind I do intensely hate) should end. Ever since the Turtles Forever movie showed, there has been pining for more crossovers of the OT ever since.

[Gunstar_Red]

Although somewhat annoying of all the OT pandering, I went into this show not expecting anything new. That's not a bad thing though! If anything, this version is like a huge love letter to the fans. They are trying to cram as many references as they can, even if it may not make sense to have them.

I feel it's a little sad they have to add so much reference "filler" when they have the power to really make a new interesting story (I like the Miwa and the April-is-probably-an-alien additions to this version). But it is what it is and I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be amused (if not giggling like a school girl) by some 2003 references.

[Nasubionna]

*shrug* I am an OT fan, never got into the 2003 series. I wasn't around a television when it was new on the air, and I've tried to watch it since and can't get past the (in my own opinion terrible) voice acting. I also fully recognize that the OT is very dated and also has enormous flaws along with it's nostalgia value.
But, I have been loving the hell out of the OT references, and I would absolutely not be opposed to any 2003 characters or references they want to make, because I understand it's fun for the 2003 fans and it's all part of the TMNT lore. Plus, I am totally interested in seeing Nick's take on the 2003 characters that I am not familiar with. This show seems to be great about taking those old things and making it their own, and I love it. I haven't minded fly Baxter (though I do hope he manages to demutate and continue being an interesting player as a human scientist again), calling Bradford Rahzar, or really any of the other older references. And I am super psyched about this version of Bebop and Rocksteady, even though I wasn't one of those old fans clamoring for their inclusion.

Anyway, long answer! Short reply: nope, doesn't bug me at all, I think it's good fun, and I would welcome more 2003 references/characters as well! :)

[CyberCubed]

*shrug* I am an OT fan, never got into the 2003 series. I wasn't around a television when it was new on the air, and I've tried to watch it since and can't get past the (in my own opinion terrible) voice acting.

LOL, what? How did the 4kids series have terrible voice acting? The voices for the entire main cast and villains was great.

[Ninturtle]

LOL, what? How did the 4kids series have terrible voice acting? The voices for the entire main cast and villains was great.

I agree with this, the 4 kids series was voiced very wellin my opinion.I

[neatoman]

LOL, what? How did the 4kids series have terrible voice acting? The voices for the entire main cast and villains was great.

I agree with this, the 4 kids series was voiced very wellin my opinion.I

From what I understand there are people who hate voice actors on the east coast (they're the ones who mainly do video games and anime dubs), the claim is that their acting talent is typically of lower quality than the ones on the west coast (the ones mainly doing domestic cartoons).

But honestly, I don't hear this big gap in talent.

[Technogeek29]

So I'm not misunderstood because I say a lot of mean things about the show. I point out its flaws as I watch but to say I don't like it? Naw couldn't say that. If you were to ask me to point out flaws on 2k3 I could make a huge list of its share problems that don't end with Shredder is an Utrom. Same for Nick far be from the "because it panders to the OT". The only time the OT nods bother me is when it's blatant and shameless. When the OT nods do something that helps the story I welcome it.

Heck I wouldn't at all mind if they pulled characters from the IDW Comics but there has to be a reason besides just a shout out or needless pandering. And the shout outs don't have to be huge it could be small things like "Duncan Donuts" a easter egg to Dan Duncan the first artist to work on IDW. Shredder drops his mask and it falls on a Kraang. Mikey picks it up and says "What if this whole time Shredder was a Kraang? " to which the others respond how absurd that sounds. A shout out to how Chr'ell turned off a lot of fans to 2k3. Seems mean spirited but personally I find it funny. Stuff like that would be cool.

[Nasubionna]

*shrug* Hey dudes, I just said it was my own opinion. You feel free to like what you like, and I'll do the same!

[CyberCubed]

*shrug* Hey dudes, I just said it was my own opinion. You feel free to like what you like, and I'll do the same!

I'm just curious what it is about the voice acting that bothers you so much, since they sound exactly the same as the type of voices in any other show. And they fit those incarnations of the Turtles well. The villains all had great voices too.

[mexichrist83]

I'm just curious what it is about the voice acting that bothers you so much, since they sound exactly the same as the type of voices in any other show. And they fit those incarnations of the Turtles well. The villains all had great voices too.

Wow. Lay off there, booster. Why is the fact that Nasubionna not liking the voice acting in the 2003 series riling you up so much that you are hounding them for an explanation? They don't owe you an explanation and they clearly stated that it was just their opinion.

Anyway, back on topic. I think the idea of nostalgia pandering is kind of silly. This series is not only slipping in winks and nods to the OT but the movies, comics, toy line and even the 4Kids series. There are a lot more OT references because that is the most well known and popular version of TMNT that has existed up until this point. Simple as that. It's nice to see redone versions of these characters. For example, Bebop and Rocksteady are memorable characters but their stupidity in the OT is one of those things that does get aggravating to I'm sure any viewer at some point so getting more competent versions of them is not entirely a bad thing.

I truly think that people who are upset about the idea that this show is "nostalgic pandering" really are upset that the show is referencing a series that they are either not familiar with or don't like. If there is a reference you don't get that's fine. You don't have to get every single reference. Also, if the show is presenting you with a character you are unfamiliar with what is so wrong with getting to know the new interpretation of the character in the show? I am not a fan of the 4Kids series and while I don't know much about the characters of Bishop or Hun I'm not going to completely write them off as characters in the new show because I do not like the 4Kids series or because I'm not familiar with their characters.

[snake]

As much as I hate focusing entirely on the OT, I honestly could not give a sh*t. You could rewrite the turtles as many times as you want, but the OT is and will be the most popular among casual fans.

[ssjup81]

Interesting. Anyway, I don't really feel that the show is pandering, I guess. I'd only feel this way if the show only made references to OT stuff, but it doesn't and has made nods/homages/references to: Mirage, Archie, 2k3, OT, TNM (ep where Splinter made them switch weapons comes to mind), the movies (1 and 2, I've noticed), etc., as well as retro things in a general sense from that old Filmation animated Star Trek-like series to Hanna Barbera's Thundar the Barbarian (still laughs over the irony that for the original cartoon, the destruction of earth was supposed to have happened in 1994).

The only way I do feel that it was legitimately pandering to an OT audience was with Fly Baxter (which was originally paying homage to the recent re-release of Jeff Goldblum's "The Fly" for the OT) and now Bebop & Rocksteady since these three were OT exclusive. The Hamato Yoshi > Splinter story, though created for the OT, I always preferred, personally to the original origin story. I could feel more sorry for the character if he knew what it was like to be treated as a human and then becoming one of the most despised animals known to society (well, as far as NYC goes). I dunno, seems a Rat > Giant Rat would be able to adapt more easily compared to someone who was once human and lived that way and became a rat.

Rahzar and the upcoming Mondo Gecko...hm... Rahzar is a movie character and most associated with it (disappointing the kids at the time who were expecting Bebop and Rockstready lol *coughs* ). He had an ep in the OT series along with Tokka, but they just showed up out of nowhere and seemed to toss them in because of the movie. Seriously, who remembers OT Rahzar? I know I keep forgetting untless I think of it.

Mondo Gecko is a toy/Archie character. He was in the OT for like...what, two eps? I know this is bad, but until I rewatched the OT, I'd forgotten about him being in it too. ^^;

Oh, the Punk Frogs too. Before rewatching the OT, I remember talking to my cousin asking him, "Hey, were there ever any other characters like the turtles in the the OT? I don't know why I think I remember some Teengage Mutant Ninja Frogs or something." He was laughing, "Wendy, you were imagining them." I then rewatched the OT, and was like, "Hey, I was right!" And he stood corrected and we realized that...they weren't very memorable. Kinda like this show's take on them. More distinct personalities.

At least the 2k12 series is doing one thing nicely...their reimagining of said characters. The OT didn't really have many mutants, imo, until HAVOC popped up. Their enemies usually consisted of evil scientists and gangsters and Shredder's scheme of the week.

Oh, as for Wormquake, forgot who said it and wondering what the purpose was for the cameo of the OT characters (I found it funny, actually with that music) was a way to show that there are many dimensions and that maybe the 2k12 series will have the turtles dimension hopping at some point. Also, it was nice that they had all four original voice actors reprise their roles and in all honesty, when I found out Rob was voicing one of the turtles for this show, I would joke over, "I want to see Rob talk to himself". That aside, I still feel they'll encounter the Triceratons through dimension hopping somehow. Hm, guess that could be a little bit of pandering. Just a throwback, but is it any different from Turtles Forever?

We saw that Tigerclaw went through multiple dimensions, the OT being one of them. Has to mean something other than my current dream of seeing OT Raph outsnarking 2k12 Donnie (or vice-versa). :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Wow. Lay off there, booster. Why is the fact that Nasubionna not liking the voice acting in the 2003 series riling you up so much that you are hounding them for an explanation? They don't owe you an explanation and they clearly stated that it was just their opinion.

What is the issue here? I'm asking what about the voice acting is terrible in that show, since the voice acting/directing in that series is the same as any other cartoon I've heard.

I am not a fan of the 4Kids series and while I don't know much about the characters of Bishop or Hun I'm not going to completely write them off as characters in the new show because I do not like the 4Kids series or because I'm not familiar with their characters.

So I guess this is why, if you've never watched the 4kids cartoon or only seen a little bit of it, I don't see how its a valid opinion.

[mexichrist83]

What is the issue here? I'm asking what about the voice acting is terrible in that show, since the voice acting/directing in that series is the same as any other cartoon I've heard.



So I guess this is why, if you've never watched the 4kids cartoon or only seen a little bit of it, I don't see how its a valid opinion.

Nasubionna clearly stated:
"Hey dudes, I just said it was my own opinion. You feel free to like what you like, and I'll do the same!"

If Nasubionna doesn't mind me speaking for them I take that statement to mean that it's just Nasubionna's personal opinion and that they wish to leave it at that. Nasubionna doesn't need to explain that and it's not really relevant to this thread anyway. That can be saved for the 4Kids forum.

So you guess this is why what? I don't understand your statement. My opinion on what is not valid? All I stated was that I did not care much for the 4Kids series. I never said it sucked or anything like that. I just stated that I personally did not like it and was not a fan. I watched enough of the series to know that it wasn't really for me.

[Ninturtle]

From what I understand there are people who hate voice actors on the east coast (they're the ones who mainly do video games and anime dubs), the claim is that their acting talent is typically of lower quality than the ones on the west coast (the ones mainly doing domestic cartoons).

But honestly, I don't hear this big gap in talent.

I don't dislike dubbed anime.'