Mikey's ADHD/ADD

[Vicky82]

I thought I start a thread on this as alot of people here don't know the full details about ADHD/ADD and keep blaming the writers on treating Mikey badly and think that ADHD/ADD is just an excuse.

First off the writers are doing a great job, they are doing their homework on ADHD and other things that link with ADHD.

They are trying to get the message out there to the world that ADHD is a metal disorder and that millions of children do suffer with it. People who don't know about the condition, blame the parents and think it's a stupid excuse.

Seriously people, you need to do your homework and read up about ADHD/ADD.

Here's few things that connect Mikey with ADHD, I posted this a few months ago in another thread.

“zoning out” without realizing it (I’m pretty sure we’ve seen him do this at least once)
extreme distractibility; wandering attention makes it hard to stay on track
tendency to overlook details, leading to errors or incomplete work
poor listening skills; hard time remembering conversations and following directions
hyperfocusing (we’ve seen him do this a little with pizza and comics)
poor organizational skills (his room is very messy and cluttered)
constantly losing or misplacing things (we’ve seen this happen at least once IIRC)
blurt out thoughts that are rude or inappropriate without thinking (being brutally honest while under pressure to keep the truth a secret)
have addictive tendencies (pizza)
act recklessly or spontaneously without regard for consequences
sense of underachievement
hypersensitivity to criticism
low self-esteem and sense of insecurity
getting bored easily
trouble sitting still; constant fidgeting
We’ve seen Mikey struggle with this (and start to admit defeat a little, IMO, considering how increasingly noticeable his low self-esteem has become), and try to desperately improve himself to impress his brothers. But they aren’t paying attention because they’re still stuck with their tunnel vision of him.

posted this in the Casey Jones vs The Underworld thread to explain Mikey's behavior in the episode.

Mikey's behaviour in this episode was due to eating the Cheese balls and he became really hyper. Why? because of Red Dye 42 was in them. Red Dye 42 is mentioned in the episode and it was on the Cheeseball package too.

Red Dye 42 is actually a reference to Red Dye 40, it's a food colouring. Apparently it's mentioned a lot in health news sites they say Red Dye 40 causes health problems and cause hyperactivity in kids especially kids with ADHD and experts want FDA to ban foods containing them.

So thats why Mikey was acting so hyper in the episode because of the Red Dye in the Cheesballs and I applaud the writers for doing there homework on this.

Just put Red Dye 40 in the search engine you come up with results.

So you need to pay attention to the little details in the show, they can end up being really important.

[JTH]

Sorry, couldn't finish the post.

Got distracted by a dime. :P

[Vicky82]

Sorry I'm adding another post to show some of the amazing things Mikey has done.

(have to put under spoilers as they are big posts.
Also I did not write these, someone put them on Tumblr a few months back, they are not updated either)

He’s compassionate/has a big heart



Defending Leatherhead, giving the fellow mutant shelter, taking care of him, and comforting/reassuring Leatherhead that he wasn’t a monster.
Later on, his grief over LH sacrificing himself to protect the turtles/destroy the Kraang transmat portal device thingy (grief that we’ve been reminded of a couple of times in-between the episode where LH’s sacrifice was made and his rescue in “Into Dimension X”).

Seeing Leo with reddened eyes (after an encounter with Karai), assuming his older brother’s eyes were red from crying, and running over to give him a hug.

Always eager to take in stray animals/he’s an animal lover.

Defending Donnie’s feeling to Raph after Donnie went on a solo mission to save April’s father.

Trying to comfort Leo about Karai, even though he couldn’t 100% understand/relate to what Leo was feeling like Donnie could.

Comforting April when she was blaming herself for her father’s mutation (while his brothers, including Donnie, stood there and let her blame herself for it), telling her the truth/accepting responsibility for what had happened (while his older, more “mature” brothers desperately tried to get him to shut up about it because they didn’t want April to know it was really their fault AKA they didn’t want to take responsibility for it-and yet, a lot of the fandom acted like Mikey was the bad guy here…WTF?), and attempting to reassure her that everything would be okay and that they would fix it. (Was he a little too zen/calm with that truth bomb? Eh, I guess that’s how some people decided to see it-but Mikey’s an optimistic guy, and I think he was so zen about it because he really genuinely believed that everything was going to be alright.)

Comforting Donnie when Metalhead sacrificed himself in order to allow the brothers to escape the Kraang (even though Metalhead was really rough/abusive to him that entire episode).

His pep talk to Leo and Raph after Splinter was captured when he came to rescue them in “Wormquake/The Manhattan Project”.

Trying to comfort/reassure Leo about Karai eventually coming to terms with the fact that her entire life has been a lie, and that she just needs some space/time to accept it.

Being upset about what happened to Karai. Wanting to find and cure Karai because Splinter was so sad about what happened to her.

His desperation to get to Leatherhead when his friend’s warning about the Kraang reached them, and his refusal to allow LH to sacrifice himself again to let them escape Dimension X.

The big beautiful moment he has with Raph in the S2 finale.
His clear worry over Leo throughout the S2 finale and in the S3 premiere opening.

His happy tears when he hugged Leo after Leo woke up.
That oh-so-adorable face he was making at the end of the S3 premiere after Leo told Raph he did what he did because “That’s what brothers are for.”

Supporting Donnie when his brother decided to give April a gift in “A Foot Too Big”.

Yelling at Casey and Leo for being assholes and hurting Bigfoot’s feelings, and going after her with Donnie in “A Foot Too Big”.

Telling April she hasn’t lost her whole family, because they (the turtles and Casey) are her family too in “Buried Secrets”.

He’s really strong, brave, and pretty protective of his brothers/family:

In “The Gauntlet” he saves his brothers twice from getting slashed by Shredder (the first time he saved Donnie, the second time he saved Raph).
When Mikey falls off the edge of the roof while fighting Shredder in “The Gauntlet” (getting a few more hits in as he was tumbling towards and then over the edge), he immediately runs over to check on Raph and make sure he was okay.

Defends a weak and hallucinating Raph from ninjas in “The Pulverizer”.

Successfully finishes the antidote in “Parasitica”, gives it to his brothers, and then saves their lives again when they’re overwhelmed by the wasps.

He hits Newtralizer with a car to save Leo and Raph in “Operation Breakout”

Lures the Squirrelanoids away from his brothers, and cleverly defeats them (nearly getting killed in the process-which he’s developed a phobia of squirrels over) in “Invasion of the Squirrelanoids”

Takes out Cromedome in “Target: April O’Neil” after it flings the brothers off of itself.

Mikey and Donnie both defend Raph from Slash (despite both being pretty injured at this point) in “Slash and Destroy”.

He defends Leo from a hallucinating Raph in “Fungus Humungous”, and reassures the hallucinating Raph that he will protect him.

Uses Ice Cream Kitty against The Rat King to save Leo/help break Rat King’s control over Splinter in “Of Rats and Men”.
Saves Donnie from his fall in “Of Rats and Men”

Saving his family (and the entire city) in “Pizza Face” (if we are to assume that whole episode wasn’t just some fever dream of Mikey’s)

Insisting that Leo not call for Splinter as Tiger Claw was demanding them to, despite the fact that Tiger Claw was hanging him over the edge of a tall building/hole in the roof of a tall building and threatening to kill him if his older brother disobeyed.

Repeatedly swoops in to save his brothers lives in “Into Dimension X”.

Picking up and flinging a couch out of a 2nd or 3rd story window at the Foot as an act of retaliation for what they did to Leo in “The Invasion”.
Freaking out with Donnie and Raph when Shredder threw Splinter into the sewer water to drown.

His absolute rage at The Creep when it sucked the life/mutagen out of Raph in the S3 premiere.

Trying to defend Bigfoot from The Finger in “A Foot Too Big”.

Trying to protect April from her “mother” in “Buried Secrets”.

He’s a hellava lot smarter than his brothers (and a lot of the fans it seems) give him credit for:

He can learn moves after only witnessing them/being taught how to do them once.

His fighting style is very Splinter-like IMO.

He’s pretty insightful/full of wisdom.

His remark to Raph about Donnie’s feelings when Donnie goes solo on them.

His speech about Karai being confused and needing to work things out on her own when Leo’s bummed out about Karai not believing the truth.

His big beautiful moment with Raph in the S2 finale, and trying to emulate Splinter in the S3 premiere because everyone was getting frustrated by their situation)

Mikey’s defeat of the sea monster in “Karai’s Vendetta”.

Mikey’s idea to defeat the Wasp at the beginning of “Parasitica” and his clever way of outwitting them and saving his brothers at the end of the episode (twice!)

He was right about where Baxter and the centrifuge were located in “Mikey Gets Shellacne”, and if he hadn’t gotten fed up with his brothers and investigated the lab on his own then they probably wouldn’t have figured it out themselves fast enough and Mikey could very well have died because of that.
He comes up with the way to defeat Dogpound and Xever in that very same episode.

He came up with the plan to defeat the Squirrelanoids (and nearly died in the process-developing a phobia of squirrels because of it).

It was his idea to lure Tiger Claw into the meat locker/butchery so they could catch him off guard and fight him.

It was his idea of triangulating Casey’s cell phone signal that allowed him and Raph to track down their beaten up friend.

He was quick to figure out how things worked in Dimension X, and seems to understand their tech too.

He broke off a piece of the power crystal in “Into Dimension X” to cause the needed explosion, and also to provide Donnie with the power source strong enough to power the Mech his brother was building.

He sensed there was something off about April’s mother, and took the risk confronting her alone even though no one believed him.

[ssjup81]

It seemed liked they cooled down a lot on the ADD/ADHD thing, though since season 1, so seeing it pop up again at full force can be disheartening to see at times...but I'm surprised I didn't catch or even think about the red dye thing or the food chemicals affecting his behavior. It was more over the top than usual and I usually make associations like that when something is off as not everything can be viewed as black and white. Good catch.

Boy, I really am distracted by my work and visa predicament...

[Leo656]

I highly, highly doubt the people behind the show have put 1/10 as much thought or research into it as you have. It's a throw-away, catch-all phrase that the writers can lean on in order to make Mikey more of a Spaz, because "that's funny". Not that the condition itself isn't real, BUT, it's seriously over-played, over-diagnosed, and it's become a trendy "buzzword" used to describe any kid who's goofy.

I know it's real, because I have friends whose kids have it. There's also degrees of it, as far as some cases being more severe and others more benign. But I'm sensitive to this; my wife was misdiagnosed with ADHD when she was a teenager, back when every kid who talked back or "couldn't concentrate" in school was suddenly "miraculously" discovered to have ADD/ADHD. My wife had, and does NOT have, any symptoms at all of ADHD. Just to be clear. But, she was diagnosed by an "allegedly" trained doctor, and put on medications that caused serious problems including sleep disorders, depression, and suicidal thoughts. God knows what would have happened if she hadn't stopped taking that garbage they put her on. But anyway, she wasn't diagnosed because she had it, she was diagnosed only because it was "hip" and new at the time, and getting your kid hooked on Ritalin is a convenient way to get them to do what you tell them to.

So, anyways, I've seen the whole "ADHD" thing from both sides, and I highly doubt the writers were serious in any way when they first stuck that tag on Mikey. I promise, it was as simple as, "Well, nowadays when kids act like morons, we blame ADHD; Mikey's kind of dumb, so let's use that to explain it." Maybe more recently, they've retroactively put some superficial "symptoms" of it onto him, but I swear that wasn't their original intention; it was a gag, and a lazy one.

I've still seen nothing from Mikey that comes close to anything like the behaviors of my friends' kids of similar age. And as I've said, I'm aware there are degrees of severity. But I maintain, Mikey doesn't have ADHD; he's just stupid. The writers don't want to own up to that, thus, the "miracle diagnosis" used by so many parents, teachers and "doctors" beforehand. It's dumb. Anyone who thinks they're trying to "keep it real" or raise any kind of awareness, or even just make Mikey more sympathetic, is giving this show's writers way too much credit. We've seen how many episodes so far? Frankly, the show's writers aren't that clever, to have even put as much though into it as you'd like to give them. We've seen ample proof of that. :lol:

[snake]

I just think they make Mikey act like a retard because little kids find it funny. I mean, they're the target audience for this show no matter how you look at it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I agree with that assessment. Mikey in other versions has NEVER been ADHD or ADD. In Mirage, he was laid-back and a bit lazy at times, told jokes sometimes, and was out-going and friendly, compassionate, and even a bit creative. But NEVER had attention or hyperactive issues. In the OT, he was laid-back, lazy, and a bit goofy at times, told jokes and was "obsessed" with pizza and comics, but still- no ADHD or ADD, just a chilled-out, slightly silly personality.

In the movies, he was very much the laid-back guy like in Mirage, who liked to sit back and relax, was a little lazy (his trying to "cheat" at the punishment in SotO), and liked to annoy Raph. He was fun-loving, told jokes, and had a thing for junk food, but NO ADHD. He was even a bit introspective at times in SotO and TMNT III. He wasn't hyper, didn't have any issues paying attention, and at times even understood Donnie better than the other two when he went into his "techno-speak". (In SotO, he was the first one to realize what Prof. Perry meant about ingesting the anti-mutagen, even before Donnie realized they'd have to FEED it to Tokka and Rahzar!)

In 2K3, he was immature, a bit goofy at times, and obsessed with comics and video games and horror movies, still lazy, and kind of "dumbed down", but NEVER exhibited any signs of ADHD. He pestered Raph and Donnie, but wasn't obnoxiously hyper nor had a short-attention span. Again, he was compassionate and fun-loving, but still knew how to pay attention when needed, and was smart enough to understand most of what went on around him- unless it was Donnie talking.... He also was occasionally a big-headed a$$-hat, but that's another issue.

So WHERE does this "ADHD" come from?! It's a convenient excuse to make him dumb and silly and make REALLY stupid mistakes that a teen his age should KNOW BETTER then to make. Like eating the pizza after MONTHS in the fridge with no power in the latest episode. He would know better than to eat something so old and covered with mold. (In the original film, he wouldn't even touch a pizza that had just a couple day's growth on it!) He also says or does things that are more like the thought-process of a seven-year-old than a kid in his mid-teens. Basically, the writers use the ADHD excuse to make him do things that NO kid that age should/would realistically do. If anything, he's borderline mentally challenged in Nick, which is ALSO something that is only being played "for laughs". It's just plain lazy and uninspired writing, is all it is.

Nick has taken a character who USED to be well-rounded and had interesting flaws AND positive attributes, and has "taken it up to 11" with the negative ones, making them FAR worse than they've ever been and even adding NEW ones, while making the positive ones nearly non-existent, just for the sake of making him what is considered (by six-year-olds) to be "funny".

[Shark_Blade]

Holy long posts! :o

Nice ready, cheers for sharing! :D

[Leo656]

Mikey having ADHD makes no sense.

Mikey being a 24/7 toker, on the other hand, makes perfect sense. In every single incarnation. Too bad Nick can't just "go there". It's not like the kid's fooling anybody.

[Orochi]

Is there any official source stating Mikey has ADHD? I don't think it was ever mentioned in an episode and the only place I've seen it listed is Turtlepedia, which anyone can edit. I'd be honestly surprised if Nick put in a mental illness for it's character, even if it's a positive heroic character used. Just seems a bit of a liability, given that uppity soccer mums went crazy after a My Little Pony character was named Derpy. I tried looking for his bio and failed, Nick.co.uk's one doesn't show it, I've been told on the USA site it does, but can't really get on there without being redirected.

[Jephael]

I've heard Big Bang Theory fans asking if Sheldon Cooper has autism, and the writers totally deny it, so if a live action sitcom aimed at adults doesn't feel inclined to give a main character a mental disability, I'm betting a Nickelodeon cartoon for children definitely won't!!!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I've heard Big Bang Theory fans asking if Sheldon Cooper has autism, and the writers totally deny it, so if a live action sitcom aimed at adults doesn't feel inclined to give a main character a mental disability, I'm betting a Nickelodeon cartoon for children definitely won't!!!


And yet they "did". I have seen it in his character profile on the site, quite a while back, to be sure, but it WAS there as "official". And totally bogus, IMHO. As I said before, he's NEVER had any of those attributes in ANY OTHER VERSION! Though Leo's joke about him being a stoner might apply to the OT and 2K3.... (The junk food obsession, the attitude, the voice....) Hardly in the movies or comics, though. (Bay turtles being a possible exception. I can certainly see him being a "toker" there, LOL!)

[Powder]

Is there any official source stating Mikey has ADHD? I don't think it was ever mentioned in an episode and the only place I've seen it listed is Turtlepedia, which anyone can edit. I'd be honestly surprised if Nick put in a mental illness for it's character, even if it's a positive heroic character used. Just seems a bit of a liability, given that uppity soccer mums went crazy after a My Little Pony character was named Derpy. I tried looking for his bio and failed, Nick.co.uk's one doesn't show it, I've been told on the USA site it does, but can't really get on there without being redirected.

When the series debuted, Nick's website had a section with character bios. Michelangelo's stated, I think in the first line or two, that he had ADHD. So it's canon.

[Leo656]

Mikey and Raph were both baked in every single scene of the first movie, I don't know how you can't tell. I mean, Raphael keeps a better handle on it, but it's there. And don't even get me started on Casey. Even wide awake, his eyes just refuse to open more than half.

That movie's actually a lot funnier if you can picture a bong just off-screen to the left of every shot.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You're funny, Leo. You should KNOW, it wasn't a bong. Knowing Splinter, it would'a been a hookah.

[Leo656]

Remember that time in the Mirage comics where he laced Leo's tea? Hilarious. I totally always wanted to see "Fearless Leader" trippin' balls. Fo' sho.

When stuff like that is canon, I'unno how anyone can doubt that Mikey is fried.

[Orochi]

When the series debuted, Nick's website had a section with character bios. Michelangelo's stated, I think in the first line or two, that he had ADHD. So it's canon.

Thanks for the help on it, Nick.co.uk doesn't have that as his, just the same generic filler text for him you have on the action figure boxes, so it's good to have some confirmation.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Didn't they drop the whole ADHD aspect before the series started? And honestly, they never should have thought of the idea of giving him ADHD. 2k12 Mikey is just becoming more annoying and outright dumb to the point where Ciro and them either don't know exactly what to do with him or just making him this way for humor's sake.

[Powder]

Thanks for the help on it, Nick.co.uk doesn't have that as his, just the same generic filler text for him you have on the action figure boxes, so it's good to have some confirmation.

I myself don't have pictures, but when that promotional material was new, people were screencapping it & sharing here, for those who couldn't view it on-site. So if you can dredge up some of the old-ass threads from... early 2012, I think, you might find them.

[Orochi]

I myself don't have pictures, but when that promotional material was new, people were screencapping it & sharing here, for those who couldn't view it on-site. So if you can dredge up some of the old-ass threads from... early 2012, I think, you might find them.

I found a few on Deviantart, says he has major ADD so it was on the site for sure. I'm wondering if that actually was the case now or if they've retconned him to just be kinda weird. He honestly just strikes me as some Ralph Wiggum-esque savant rather than suffering from ADHD.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Remember that time in the Mirage comics where he laced Leo's tea? Hilarious. I totally always wanted to see "Fearless Leader" trippin' balls. Fo' sho.

When stuff like that is canon, I'unno how anyone can doubt that Mikey is fried.


Sadly, no, I don't. Never read the Mirage comics, beyond a few issues from the "Classics" collections. (#1, #3, and #4, so- not many issues....) That sounds pretty epic for a prank, though! Sheesh, and the worst I've ever had him doing was switching the sugar and salt for Donnie's coffee, LOL!!! Or oiling the handles on Leo's swords. I'm still looking for the ultimate prank for Raph for a story I'm doing- any suggestions??

[ssjup81]

I found a few on Deviantart, says he has major ADD so it was on the site for sure. I'm wondering if that actually was the case now or if they've retconned him to just be kinda weird. He honestly just strikes me as some Ralph Wiggum-esque savant rather than suffering from ADHD.When I first started watching this show last summer, I made a post about what I liked/disliked so far. In it, I mentioned how ADD Mikey seemed to be and didn't care for it. I then found posts saying that, in canon, he was supposed to have undiagnosed ADD or ADHD. In season 1, he really did come across as kind of ADD. Seems it cooled down after a while, though, where in season 1, he'd get distracted by something like gum on the ground, but later on, he seemed to be able to concentrate a bit better to focus but would occasionally have his moments.

For the recent episode seems to really give off the strange "Ralph Wiggum-esque" thing, now that you mention it. Interesting comparison. Even in the Take NY Back stuff, and his messing with Donnie's retromutagen seemed off. I wonder if he was just going stir crazy or something being cooped up while the Kraang were screwing things up.

[Leo656]

Sadly, no, I don't. Never read the Mirage comics, beyond a few issues from the "Classics" collections. (#1, #3, and #4, so- not many issues....) That sounds pretty epic for a prank, though! Sheesh, and the worst I've ever had him doing was switching the sugar and salt for Donnie's coffee, LOL!!! Or oiling the handles on Leo's swords. I'm still looking for the ultimate prank for Raph for a story I'm doing- any suggestions??

It wasn't a prank, Leo was going on a vision quest or something. Either way, it was pretty explicit that Splinter was giving him drugged tea. Like, "Are you offering me drugs, Master?" "...I am offering you a path," or something to that effect. It was in an issue of "Tales".

But yeah, Splinter is a dirty hippie who pushes drugs on his "kids". Pass it on.

[pennydreadful]

They've got it in canon that 2k12 Donnie has OCD as well, don't they? I'm positive I remember reading that somewhere.

Whether it's actually a decent portrayal of someone with OCD is up for debate... he just comes across as a regular nerdy science dork in this one (IMO). I may well have missed something, but I can't recall him ever being obsessive about germs, keeping things lined up/symmetrical, counting/checking things repetitively or even hoarding, all of which are signs of OCD.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I dunno, I think it's like ADHD, where there are different types/degrees of it. My hubby is slightly OCD in that he counts his steps when he walks somewhere and hast to have pictures just perfectly straight AND symmetrically aligned, I get it with some things like having to keep all my movies, games, comics, and even books organized JUST so (by genre, author, series, book/movie order, and such), or by keeping EVERY note, map, or character sheet, monster stat, etc that I've EVER used for my D&D games, in case I need them later.

[BabyTurtles]

I honestly think Mikey is dumb and made that way for laughs.....sadly.

being hyper and unfocused is one thing but straight up stupid is another.

I thought Ciro did a "stupid pass" for Mikey?.....He needs start triple checking...or just tell the writers to stop writing Mikey like an idiot. :ohwell:

Beast Boy is a good example of a jokester that isn't as smart as the rest of the team but has alot of heart.

[Leo656]

"But he's the FUNNY one...! How will you know he's the Funny One if he doesn't do or say something OUTRAGEOUS in every scene he's in?!"

They'll tell you they "have to" do his character that way, because it's a kids show. And kids are awful at appreciating anything nuanced or subtle. Thus, the box of giant crayons with only 6 colors they give you on your first day of school. "No, no, you're not ready for purple. We'll give you purple when we think you're emotionally ready to handle purple." And in turn, Mikey's a spastic nitwit constantly so you can tell he's supposed to be "funny". Because that's all kids understand.

[Ninturtle]

In one interview I remember Greg Cipes said " Mikey is evolving". Perhaps they made him stupid because they want to maje him mature at some point in the series.

[Vicky82]

How can people say he's dumb and stupid.

Yes he makes mistakes but it doesn't make him dumb and everyone makes mistakes.
Yes he's has goofy moments but that doesn't make him dumb.
Yes he get's over excited (Which is part of his ADHD) but that doesn't make him dumb.
Yes he does lack intelligence and some knowledge but thats part of his ADHD and he is improving.

Name one stupid dumb mistake he did in:

Within The Woods
Buried Secrets
Vision Quest
Return to New York
Serpent Hunt
The Pig and the Rhino
Battle For New York

(Please don't include pressing the button by accident and eating disgusting food because they are running gags.)

Mikey has improved a lot since season 1.

He listen's to the other turtles plans.
He has good idea's and his brother's listen to him now.
He has lead the team in Into Dimension X and Battle for New York Part 2.
He can sense things that don't seem right, like in Buried Secrets. (Yes they didn't listen to him that time but I expect next time they will).

He brothers are taking him more seriously now, it just takes time.

He had a lot of devlopment in Battle for New York and had some awesome moments.


Telling Leo to trust Slash and give him a chance.
Had some adorable moments with Leatherhead
He lead the team in Part 2
He had great ideas that worked
He Stopped the Space Worm Thing
He stopped Kraang Sub Prime (temporary)
He flew a Stealth Ship
He flew the Technodrome and changed it to hold retro mutagen.

Mikey is devoping, improving and getting more mature but it's happening at a slower pace. He can't just change overnight and become normal just because he was amazing in one episode, you have to give him time and patients. If he does make a silly mistake, he will learn from it and improve next time.

[Orochi]

That's just it, he's a savant. He's meant to have very low intelligence yet be an absolute master at just doing things by accident and having them work in his favour. He is fairly dumb, most characters even in universe noticing it. He's just good at doing things without thinking too hard about them. Mikey is stupid, Mikey is dumb, but it doesn't mean he's not awesome and skilled where it counts. He's personally my second favourite turtle, but I completely understand he's easily the stupidest of the four, at least in terms of intelligence and knowledge.

[BubblyShell22]

Sorry, but I don't count eating disgusting food when you should know better as having ADHD/ADD. I think there are times where Mikey is just dumb and does stupid things because the writers think it's funny to make him that way. Yes, he has had good moments and done good things, and that's great, but you can't ignore the dumb stuff either.

[Vicky82]

Mikey is not dumb, the writers arn't making him dumb. They are making him a role model for children who struggle with ADHD/ADD.

The cartoon is showing them how Mikey struggles with it and how he overcomes it.

It also shows how Splinter and his brothers deals with Mikey's problems and how it can be struggle sometimes and how they can overcome it.

So Kids will recognise that they have the same problems as Mikey and it will show them how they can cope, by giveing them a confidence boost when they see Mikey having good idea's, leading his team ect

Most children with ADHD/ADD will have emotional and social problems because they are probably bullied in school I expect they are called dumb, stupid or idiot by other children.

So if your calling Mikey dumb, then you are calling every children with ADHD/ADD in the world dumb.

Ask me this, How many childrens cartoons are there that deals with ADHD/ADD and I don't count The Simpsons or any other adult cartoons.

[Amaranthus]

Most kids with ADHD are annoying spastics though.
People keep praising disorders like that, but they're still disorders.
It's like polishing a turd.

Mikey is not dumb, the writers arn't making him dumb. They are making him a role model for children who struggle with ADHD/ADD.

The cartoon is showing them how Mikey struggles with it and how he overcomes it.

It also shows how Splinter and his brothers deals with Mikey's problems and how it can be struggle sometimes and they can overcome it.

So Kids will recognise that they have the same problems as Mikey and it will show them how they can cope, by giveing them a confidence boost when they see Mikey having good idea's, leading his team ect

Most children with ADHD/ADD will have emotional and social problems because they are probably bullied in school I expect they are called dumb, stupid or idiot by other children.

So if your calling Mikey dumb, then you are calling every children with ADHD/ADD dumb.

^ This coming from a person who uses "your" instead of "you're."

[Vicky82]

^ This coming from a person who uses "your" instead of "you're."

Well i'm sorry but I am Dyslexic so I do have spelling and grammer problems. I do proof read but I still get things wrong.

I struggled when I was in school and I had extra help but it helped. I was bullied because of it and I have a confidence issue and even though I have improved quiet a bit, I still struggle with it now.

[Amaranthus]

Well i'm sorry but I am Dyslexic so I do have spelling and grammer problems. I do proof read but I still get things wrong.

I'd post "Mikey is annoying and he doesn't have ADHD, just like you're dumb and have no dyslexia." But I won't (because you probably do have it) and instead I'll post what I thought about posting so we can all sit down and laugh at how you're wrong.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sheesh, you guys.

Anyway, to steer it back to discussing Mikey, I'd say poor or mis-characterization is typical of most visual TMNT media, whether it's film or TV. The Fred Wolf cartoon radically changed Raph's character (ignoring his anger issues); the 2003 and 2012 cartoons both made Mikey exceptionally annoying (and stupid); the 2014 movie turned Donnie into an uber-nerd...

For my money, the best characterizations are almost always in the comics.

[BabyTurtles]

Sheesh, you guys.

Anyway, to steer it back to discussing Mikey, I'd say poor or mis-characterization is typical of most visual TMNT media, whether it's film or TV. The Fred Wolf cartoon radically changed Raph's character (ignoring his anger issues); the 2003 and 2012 cartoons both made Mikey exceptionally annoying (and stupid); the 2014 movie turned Donnie into an uber-nerd...

For my money, the best characterizations are almost always in the comics.

I like the way IDW treats Mikey.

[SophieDem]

Well i'm sorry but I am Dyslexic so I do have spelling and grammer problems. I do proof read but I still get things wrong.

I struggled when I was in school and I had extra help but it helped. I was bullied because of it and lost my confidence. I still struggle with it now.

I can understand your reasons, Vicky.

I read your reasoning and considered your point of view. However, I don't know if children with ADHD are aware of their problem. When they watch the cartoon I don't think they think about Mikey's improvement since season 1 but they only see that a goofy turtle eats gross food. Yeah, it's supposed to be funny but on the other hand, it is disgusting and shows a bad example for children. But hey, it is just my opinion. When I was kid I tended to follow some bad stuff what my brother shown me. We even had a kid in kindergarten who had ADHD and was acting really strange and odd. My mates laughed at him and sadly, I took part in it, too. I didn't understand he had some kind of problem just only when my mother explained to me that he has some "difficulties." Later, I understood what it meant to be bullied and I had difficulties as well. So, in exchange I was put in his shoes just in another way.

I love Mikey's goofy personality but making him do disgusting or painfully dumb things is not a good point.

[BubblyShell22]

I also see where you're coming from, Vicky, but a lot of kids may not understand that Mikey is just like them. They may just say he's funny and leave it at that. And I'm not saying people with ADD or ADHD are idiots. I'm just saying Mikey is because he's done some things that are moronic. I think he's more mentally retarded with some of the stuff he's done like putting mutagen on himself. That's not something a kid with ADD would do. One of my sister's stepsons is ADD, and he's actually a very smart kid and knows right from wrong. Seems to me that at fifteen, Mikey should know better about certain things, but he doesn't, thus making him an idiot.

[Vicky82]

I can understand your reasons, Vicky.

I read your reasoning and considered your point of view. However, I don't know if children with ADHD are aware of their problem. When they watch the cartoon I don't think they think about Mikey's improvement since season 1 but they only see that a goofy turtle eats gross food. Yeah, it's supposed to be funny but on the other hand, it is disgusting and shows a bad example for children. But hey, it is just my opinion. When I was kid I tended to follow some bad stuff what my brother shown me. We even had a kid in kindergarten who had ADHD and was acting really strange and odd. My mates laughed at him and sadly, I took part in it, too. I didn't understand he had some kind of problem just only when my mother explained to me that he has some "difficulties." Later, I understood what it meant to be bullied and I had difficulties as well. So, in exchange I was put in his shoes just in another way.

I love Mikey's goofy personality but making him do disgusting or painfully dumb things is not a good point.

It really depends how old the children are and can understand there problem and obviously there parents will talk to them about it.

Most children will be watching it with there parents and they will know that Mikey has ADHD and tell there children he is also struggling with the same problem and tell them how he overcomes it with confidence. Also there parents will tell there children whats right and whats wrong.

Mikey did learn from his mistake from Mikey get's Shellache and it was due to his lack of confidence, he hasn't done anything like that since then.

[BubblyShell22]

I agree, but it was still stupid of him to do it once given what he saw Timothy go through.

[pennydreadful]

I'd post "Mikey is annoying and he doesn't have ADHD, just like you're dumb and have no dyslexia." But I won't (because you probably do have it) and instead I'll post what I thought about posting so we can all sit down and laugh at how you're wrong.

Dude, the personal remarks aren't necessary - this is a difference of opinion over a cartoon character, for chrissake. There's no need to act like that.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I agree with Penny here. No need to make fun of someone for having a disability. It's one thing to disagree with her theory, but it's another to make personal attacks against her.

[Orochi]

Mikey is not dumb, the writers arn't making him dumb. They are making him a role model for children who struggle with ADHD/ADD.

The cartoon is showing them how Mikey struggles with it and how he overcomes it.

It also shows how Splinter and his brothers deals with Mikey's problems and how it can be struggle sometimes and how they can overcome it.

So Kids will recognise that they have the same problems as Mikey and it will show them how they can cope, by giveing them a confidence boost when they see Mikey having good idea's, leading his team ect

Most children with ADHD/ADD will have emotional and social problems because they are probably bullied in school I expect they are called dumb, stupid or idiot by other children.

So if your calling Mikey dumb, then you are calling every children with ADHD/ADD in the world dumb.

Ask me this, How many childrens cartoons are there that deals with ADHD/ADD and I don't count The Simpsons or any other adult cartoons.

I'm not calling all children with ADHD dumb, there's plenty that don't act like Michelangelo. This is actually precisely why I think it's not a great idea to put this kind of label on a character in a show made primarily for children. Yes, it's nice that kids have someone to look up to, but Mikey IS dumb. He's been called stupid countless times by his brothers. Even in the first episode, Donatello quips about his lack of a brain. Not all children with the syndrome are stupid. It's like saying all autistic people are exactly like Tina from Bobs Burgers. It's a blanket statement that puts words in the mouths of people who didn't even remotely say that. I'd appreciate if I'm not being made out to insult every single child suffering with ADHD out there, if you don't mind.

Mikey has low intelligence, there's no denying it. However there's nothing saying he isn't still a good character and if he does or doesn't have ADHD (I probably won't consider him to have it unless Ciro says so or it's directly mentioned in an episode) I still think he lacks the intelligence his other brothers have. He just somehow does things that make sense, he doesn't even know how he does them. It's part of his character.

[Vicky82]

I'm not calling all children with ADHD dumb, there's plenty that don't act like Michelangelo. This is actually precisely why I think it's not a great idea to put this kind of label on a character in a show made primarily for children. Yes, it's nice that kids have someone to look up to, but Mikey IS dumb. He's been called stupid countless times by his brothers. Even in the first episode, Donatello quips about his lack of a brain. Not all children with the syndrome are stupid. It's like saying all autistic people are exactly like Tina from Bobs Burgers. It's a blanket statement that puts words in the mouths of people who didn't even remotely say that. I'd appreciate if I'm not being made out to insult every single child suffering with ADHD out there, if you don't mind.

Mikey has low intelligence, there's no denying it. However there's nothing saying he isn't still a good character and if he does or doesn't have ADHD (I probably won't consider him to have it unless Ciro says so or it's directly mentioned in an episode) I still think he lacks the intelligence his other brothers have. He just somehow does things that make sense, he doesn't even know how he does them. It's part of his character.

Yes I know he lacks intelligence and he does silly things for laughs but he is improving. He is more Intelligent than Patrick from Spongebob and Ralph from The Simpsons.

Yes I know his brothers call him stupid and at first don't take him seriously, For example, in Mikey get's Shellachne when he suggested they look for Baxter in his hideout but they thought that was stupid. Since then they listen to his ideas now. So Mikey's brother's also learn from there mistake by not taking Mikey Seriously. They even let him lead the team in Battle for New York.

Kids with ADHD who have brothers and sisters who don't understand them and need more attention than they do will call them stupid ect, it's called sibling rivalry. even my sister called me stupid because I needed more attention when we were younger but she said regrets it now.

[ssjup81]

How can people say he's dumb and stupid.

Yes he makes mistakes but it doesn't make him dumb and everyone makes mistakes.
Yes he's has goofy moments but that doesn't make him dumb.
Yes he get's over excited (Which is part of his ADHD) but that doesn't make him dumb.
Yes he does lack intelligence and some knowledge but thats part of his ADHD and he is improving.

Name one stupid dumb mistake he did in:

Within The Woods
Buried Secrets
Vision Quest
Return to New York
Serpent Hunt
The Pig and the Rhino
Battle For New York

(Please don't include pressing the button by accident and eating disgusting food because they are running gags.)

Mikey has improved a lot since season 1.

He listen's to the other turtles plans.
He has good idea's and his brother's listen to him now.
He has lead the team in Into Dimension X and Battle for New York Part 2.
He can sense things that don't seem right, like in Buried Secrets. (Yes they didn't listen to him that time but I expect next time they will).

He brothers are taking him more seriously now, it just takes time.

He had a lot of devlopment in Battle for New York and had some awesome moments.


Telling Leo to trust Slash and give him a chance.
Had some adorable moments with Leatherhead
He lead the team in Part 2
He had great ideas that worked
He Stopped the Space Worm Thing
He stopped Kraang Sub Prime (temporary)
He flew a Stealth Ship
He flew the Technodrome and changed it to hold retro mutagen.

Mikey is devoping, improving and getting more mature but it's happening at a slower pace. He can't just change overnight and become normal just because he was amazing in one episode, you have to give him time and patients. If he does make a silly mistake, he will learn from it and improve next time.I agree. Outside of a few season 1 moments, I just don't view him as stupid. Immature and ocassionally unfocused, yes. Stupid, no.

[Bravotello]

I think that the 2014 series just has poor characterization of the characters, someone else on this thread had the same idea I think. The Nick cartoon seemed to strip the characters down to their most base interpretation or making them more child friendly.

Although..the 2003 series was on 4kids. It was a kids show I don't see why shows feel the need to water down literally everything in shows these days.

[Powder]

The Nick cartoon seemed to strip the characters down to their most base interpretation or making them more child friendly.

Although..the 2003 series was on 4kids. It was a kids show I don't see why shows feel the need to water down literally everything in shows these days.

This is so stupid. The Fred Wolf cartoon & Bay films are guilty of that, but Nick? What the hell? Ciro & the gang ADDED to their characters! Leonardo's insecurities & geeky side, Donatello's short temper & romanticism, etc. & there's nothing about them that is designed to be "more child friendly", hell, they're rude to one another & they often try to disgust the viewers, which is quite the opposite. If you don't like how the show does things, that's fine, you're more than entitled to your opinions, but what you're saying is just plain wrong. Don't let your bias cloud your judgement. You're coming off like just another 4kids fanboy who can't come to grips with something that isn't pretentiously dark & edgy for the sake of it.

[Leo656]

For me it's more about how awful they write Donnie and Mikey, both, that pushed me away. By far, my least favorite version of either of them, and it's tough for me to stay into a show when I consistently want to choke half the main cast into a coma for acting like morons.

There's "whimsical" and "light" and "fun", and then there's this show and how it presents those two. Ugh.

But yeah, still waiting for *solid* proof that Mikey has ADHD, and that it's not just fans projecting what they want to see into the material. From where I stand, he's just stupid for stupid's sake. He's just plain old "Kelso" in this show. And I hate Kelso with the fury of a thousand suns.

[Bravotello]

Sorry, I've watched a few episodes. I'm not just a pretentious 2003 Turtle person. I did give it a chance and was actually excited for it but it was a huge letdown for me and I'm not sure if they added to it persay. Especially with Donatello, I don't know if Nick did it or not but I don't like his portrayal very much. To be fair though I only really watched the first one.

[Candy Kappa]

I don't see a problem with Mikey having ADHD, although I highly doubt they'll ever potray that correctly in any way. Mikey's antics are for comedy purposes only and some writers takes it to an embarrassing extreme, it's not a part of the symptoms of having a disability.

If Ciro's statement that he have to reel in the worst writings of Mikey is true, I do wish he was more adamant like Peter Laird was in 4Kids, cause it seems like a lot of the more extreme antics could have been toned down.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I like the way IDW treats Mikey.


Agreed. They don't make him embarrassingly stupid or hyper, just a little eccentric and off-the-wall at times. But he still contributes meaningful thoughts there, has enough intelligence to realize when he's messed up, and even comes up with some pretty ingenious plans on occasion. (The Mikey micro was simply awesome!)


I also see where you're coming from, Vicky, but a lot of kids may not understand that Mikey is just like them. They may just say he's funny and leave it at that. And I'm not saying people with ADD or ADHD are idiots. I'm just saying Mikey is because he's done some things that are moronic. I think he's more mentally retarded with some of the stuff he's done like putting mutagen on himself. That's not something a kid with ADD would do. One of my sister's stepsons is ADD, and he's actually a very smart kid and knows right from wrong. Seems to me that at fifteen, Mikey should know better about certain things, but he doesn't, thus making him an idiot.


Ditto. Nothing about him in Nick says ADHD to me- it just says "we want to make him funny to six-year-olds, and just cringe-worthy to anyone older, so we're making him a spastic idiot." Seriously. It's for the "humor" and nothing else. If they were the Stooges, Mikey would be Shemp. Not even Curly, but- SHEMP. The dumbest of the dumb morons. Again, this is NOT Mikey's character! It never HAS been, either, until NOW.


For me it's more about how awful they write Donnie and Mikey, both, that pushed me away. By far, my least favorite version of either of them, and it's tough for me to stay into a show when I consistently want to choke half the main cast into a coma for acting like morons.

There's "whimsical" and "light" and "fun", and then there's this show and how it presents those two. Ugh.

But yeah, still waiting for *solid* proof that Mikey has ADHD, and that it's not just fans projecting what they want to see into the material. From where I stand, he's just stupid for stupid's sake. He's just plain old "Kelso" in this show. And I hate Kelso with the fury of a thousand suns.


Yeah, I second that, at least where Mikey is concerned. Donnie, I actually like, but Mikey..... Ugh. He's just flat DUMB in Nick, and never REALLY gets any better. He'll "improve" for an episode or two, then go right back into "village idiot" territory for several more. And it's getting old.

[Leo656]

Poor Shemp. He gets so much hate... and half the time, it's not even really him! That's kind of unfair.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, to be fair, he WAS dumber than Curly. The other two go back and forth over who's smarter.

[Amaranthus]

Yeah, I agree with Penny here. No need to make fun of someone for having a disability. It's one thing to disagree with her theory, but it's another to make personal attacks against her.

What part of the "I'd post this insult, but I won't because reasons" is so hard to understand?

[BubblyShell22]

Simply the fact that you were thinking about doing so is enough for me. Yeah, you may have retracted the statement, but the pure thought that you were planning on posing something like that is still horrible enough. As I said, it's one thing to disagree with her theory, but it's another to attack someone or even to think of attacking someone in that way, which you were going to do.

[Amaranthus]

Simply the fact that you were thinking about doing so is enough for me. Yeah, you may have retracted the statement, but the pure thought that you were planning on posing something like that is still horrible enough. As I said, it's one thing to disagree with her theory, but it's another to attack someone or even to think of attacking someone in that way, which you were going to do.

I'm sowwy.

[BubblyShell22]

Apology accepted. Just think before you post something like that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm sowwy.

D*ck apology, dude.

[Candy Kappa]

What part of the "I'd post this insult, but I won't because reasons" is so hard to understand?

But you did post it.

I'd post "Mikey is annoying and he doesn't have ADHD, just like you're dumb and have no dyslexia." But I won't (because you probably do have it) and instead I'll post what I thought about posting so we can all sit down and laugh at how you're wrong.

You've might as well have done one of those douchey "no offense, but *something offensive*".

[SophieDem]

It really depends how old the children are and can understand there problem and obviously there parents will talk to them about it.

Most children will be watching it with there parents and they will know that Mikey has ADHD and tell there children he is also struggling with the same problem and tell them how he overcomes it with confidence. Also there parents will tell there children whats right and whats wrong.

Mikey did learn from his mistake from Mikey get's Shellache and it was due to his lack of confidence, he hasn't done anything like that since then.

Sorry, but do you think children watch TV with their parents? I'm not really sure about that. Nowadays, children are kept on a loose hold. They can have access to everything and their parents don't even know what their kids encountered. And even parents will recognize that a cartoon character has ADHD? I might be pessimistic but that's what I think.

Yeah, that's true. But he still doesn't have enough confidence which reminds me I really should pay more attention to Mikey's character development.

[Klunk1234]

Yeah, I agree with Penny here. No need to make fun of someone for having a disability. It's one thing to disagree with her theory, but it's another to make personal attacks against her.

I agree with you, Shell. No nobody has to make fun of another person disability. That's immaturity. When I was in High School a girl ask me: "Why you walk like that?" I have physical disability. I got annoyed at the beginning, but then my mom told me not to be be angry and just tell her you were born like that. The next time somebody ask me that question, my answer is: I was born like that. Then no more questions. Sometimes, I make fun of own physical disability. I won't get bother by that anymore, and Vicky needs not to worry because I think she overcame her dislexia.

[Klunk1234]

They've got it in canon that 2k12 Donnie has OCD as well, don't they? I'm positive I remember reading that somewhere.

Whether it's actually a decent portrayal of someone with OCD is up for debate... he just comes across as a regular nerdy science dork in this one (IMO). I may well have missed something, but I can't recall him ever being obsessive about germs, keeping things lined up/symmetrical, counting/checking things repetitively or even hoarding, all of which are signs of OCD.


In the Nickelodeon site, it says that Donnie has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. But I noticed that he can get a bad temper, but it's not like Raph. Donnie screams a lot.
Have you seen the recent episode of the show? In there Fishface told Donnie: Are you talking to yourself like a weirdo?, because he heard Donnie having an idea or something like that.

[Leo656]

You've might as well have done one of those douchey "no offense, but *something offensive*".

OOH! OOOHH! I'm good at those! :lol:

[Amaranthus]

But you did post it.



You've might as well have done one of those douchey "no offense, but *something offensive*".

I'm sorry, my reaction was uncalled for.
I still think OP is over-analysing all of this though.

[Blackeyedsonic]

This is kinda why I hate the new mikey myself I'm insulted by him it's like wow that's what others think I should act like so it makes me not wanna watch the show at all sorry just thought like saying what I think about it...

[Keroscene]

Mikey has traits of ADHD. But then a lot of people do. Labels like that generally shouldn't be applied to people who don't have a medical diagnosis, because it gives the impression that everyone with any of the traits has the disorder. Not everyone who is hyper or unfocused needs to have a diagnosis to explain why. It's hard for me to believe that Mikey has any kind of disorder, because it's not like he's struggling to cope with the world at all.

But yeah, he definitely has the traits. I don't really feel it matters. He's an entertaining character and the reasoning as to why he behaves one way or another isn't really important to me.

People will keep complaining that he's "dumb" though (even though the theme of every Mikey-centric episode is him providing he isn't) because they can't handle the fact that his character is depicted differently than in other incarnations. They'd probably rather have the bland, uninteresting barely-counts-as-a-major-character version of Mikey from the Mirage/IDW comics.

[Mew]

Does anyone here think that this guy is over thinking it?
But, yeah he kinda does.

[Vicky82]

Does anyone here think that this guy is over thinking it?
But, yeah he kinda does.

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.

[Amaranthus]

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.

Your gender really doesn't matter.
And how is dyslexia causing you to overthink this?
Enlighten me.

[Vicky82]

Your gender really doesn't matter.
And how is dyslexia causing you to overthink this?
Enlighten me.

Well i'm not going to go off topic and explain dyslexia in a TMNT thread. So why don't you put it a search engine and look it up for your self.

[Amaranthus]

Well i'm not going to go off topic and explain dyslexia in a TMNT thread. So why don't you put it a search engine and look it up for your self.

I did and it said nothing about overthinking stuff.
Quit pulling things out of your arse, m8.

[Vicky82]

I did and it said nothing about overthinking stuff.
Quit pulling things out of your arse, m8.

Well you need to read this then

Perception: the ability to alter and create perceptions;
Highly aware of the environment;
Highly curious;
Great intuition and insightful;
Thinking and perceiving multi-dimensionally (using all the senses);
A lively imagination;
Can experience thought as reality;
Creativity;
Easy adoption of change;
Holistic, see the big picture, don’t get lost in details, get to the important aspects;
See patterns, connections, and similarities very easy;
Concentration;
Can be very driven, ambitious and persistent;
Superior reasoning;
Capable of seeing things differently than others;
Love for complexity;
Simultaneous multiple thought processing;
Not following the crowd;
The ability of visual, spatial and lateral thinking.

http://www.happydyslexic.com/node/6

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.

Hey Vicky,

Good on you for being able to see differently than other people. Sometimes other people suck.

Besides, if we didn't see things through our own lens of perception and experience, it wouldn't be as rich of an experience.

Example? I enjoyed TMNT 2014 a lot more than other people did because I could easily see the Turtles' personalities in the film due to having deep familiarity with them.

If saying that Mikey is ADD/ADHD makes the show more enjoyable for you, don't let arguments stop you. And it sounds like Mikey's condition is actually canon.

[Keroscene]

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.

I disagree with your interpretation for the reasons I listed in my last post on this thread, but I don't think that you're "overthinking" it. You're watching the show with your brain switched on and using your own experiences to help you see things others don't.

I think that's probably why some people have gotten nasty in this thread, because they feel threatened when people see something they've totally missed.

[Mew]

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.
Oh sorry. :tanime:
But I do think the writers may have thought about that.
And I do respect you watching the show with a different angle, so you weren't "over thinking" it. :)

[neatoman]

Maybe he just hit himself in the head with nunchuks too much during training...

[Vicky82]

If saying that Mikey is ADD/ADHD makes the show more enjoyable for you, don't let arguments stop you. And it sounds like Mikey's condition is actually canon.

It's not just that, I love Mikey he is adorable and sensitive, he has had a lot of adorable moments and has surprised me somtimes.

I love his relationships and interaction with his family, Leatherhead, ICK ect. I love that his brothers are protective over Mikey. Mikey seems to have a close relationship with Raph and sometimes Donnie.

Everytime I see Mikey get hurt, I get hit with feels and my heart jumps in my throat.

[Blackeyedsonic]

Well for one thing I'm female, hence the name Vicky, not many males out there called Vicky.

and two, yes maybe I do overthink things but it's who I am and I see things differently than other people and it's because I'm Dyslexic.

Miss I'm Dyslexic as well and I have other issues I won't go into so when I see mikey acting how he does and someone's says it's because he has a thing you have I take it in a difrent way as in it's insulting at lest that's how I see it

[ssjup81]

I still don't see how Mikey is dumb. Season 1, yeah, as we have some clear examples of it...but not much beyond that. He definitely has traits off ADD/ADHD, but he really isn't stupid. He lacks focus, which can be libked to the ADD/ADHD thing, and is more immature and sometimes lack tact more than anything else.

[senpai]

Mikey just likes to have fun--that's all. At times his campy side comes off as dimwitted, but isn't that part of the fun? Being able to laugh at yourself and not take yourself so seriously?

[ImmaAxolotl]

For me, I miss the Mikey who not only was funny and annoying (because I know how fun it is to drive my own siblings crazy), but understood people as well. Remember how he befriended Leatherhead and cooled down Raph during the second season finale? I want more of THAT Mikey.

[Amaranthus]

In Buried Secrets, Mikey didn't trust Mom-Thing, and attacked her.
That was the major flaw in this episode.
Mom-Thing did nothing to cause Mikey not to trust her. So when he attacked her, he could have been attacking April's real mom.
So to me it looks like he really doesn't overthink his actions.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, but he had a sense that something was off about her, and it turned out he was right because it wasn't April's mom but a clone of her. If it was her real mom, Mikey probably wouldn't have had that sense. He definitely is intuitive at times and goes with his gut on things.

[Amaranthus]

Yes, but he had a sense that something was off about her, and it turned out he was right because it wasn't April's mom but a clone of her. If it was her real mom, Mikey probably wouldn't have had that sense. He definitely is intuitive at times and goes with his gut on things.

That's exactly the problem. It would've been fine if the clone acted suspicious, but she didn't do so until after he attacked her.
Are you really not seeing the problem here?

[BubblyShell22]

No because he had a bad vibe about her and acted on it. I get bad vibes myself, and most of the time, my vibes are correct. It's one of the reasons I didn't see the 2014 TMNT movie. When I saw a preview, I got a bad feeling in my gut that it would be bad, and I was right.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Mikey has traits of ADHD. But then a lot of people do. Labels like that generally shouldn't be applied to people who don't have a medical diagnosis, because it gives the impression that everyone with any of the traits has the disorder. Not everyone who is hyper or unfocused needs to have a diagnosis to explain why. It's hard for me to believe that Mikey has any kind of disorder, because it's not like he's struggling to cope with the world at all.

But yeah, he definitely has the traits. I don't really feel it matters. He's an entertaining character and the reasoning as to why he behaves one way or another isn't really important to me.

People will keep complaining that he's "dumb" though (even though the theme of every Mikey-centric episode is him providing he isn't) because they can't handle the fact that his character is depicted differently than in other incarnations. They'd probably rather have the bland, uninteresting barely-counts-as-a-major-character version of Mikey from the Mirage/IDW comics.


Y'know, aside from Nick (and possibly an episode or two in 4Kids), none of this has ever been true. Mikey's original character was never intended to be hyper or act "dumb" by any means. He is the dreamer, the slacker, and the creative, compassionate jokester. In the past, he wasn't obnoxious or constantly annoying his brothers, and he wasn't hyper or spastic, either (I can only think of one or two times in either the OT or 4Kids where he was really over-excited about anything.) The lack of focus was never due to being ADD, it was mostly due to lack of interest. In other words, he'd rather be playing video games than training! Simple as that. And that has ALWAYS been the case, until now.

Nick's taken everything "bad" or flawed about the character, and turned it up to 11, then slapped the ADHD label onto it as an excuse. He's been noted as being able to play games for HOURS, but the minute it comes to training time, he'll try to get out of it or just space out. A person with ADD wouldn't do that, they'd be unable to focus on anything for long, even the game! Yet even in Nick, we've seen him competing with Leo or Raph for the high score on their pinball game, a feat which can take hours. And he has no problems focusing on THAT. So that pretty much negates the ADD excuse.

And Mirage and IDW Mikey are neither bland nor boring. They are by far the most realistic versions of him, making him a well-developed character who does more than just provide humor. In IDW, he was the one to first befriend Slash, to go off on Raph about causing problems while Leo was missing, he was the one to get the info on the Foot meeting that led to Leo's rescue, and the one who rescued Princess Trib in Dimension X. In Mirage, he was a writer, kept a pet, and was the one who kept the others from sinking into despair more often than not.

[Amaranthus]

No because he had a bad vibe about her and acted on it. I get bad vibes myself, and most of the time, my vibes are correct. It's one of the reasons I didn't see the 2014 TMNT movie. When I saw a preview, I got a bad feeling in my gut that it would be bad, and I was right.

Yes, because the preview looked bad. While the clone acted completely normal.
I don't understand how you fail to see the issue. Unless Mikey's a psychic him attacking the clone was uncalled for.

[yellowmario27]

Nick's taken everything "bad" or flawed about the character, and turned it up to 11, then slapped the ADHD label onto it as an excuse. He's been noted as being able to play games for HOURS, but the minute it comes to training time, he'll try to get out of it or just space out. A person with ADD wouldn't do that, they'd be unable to focus on anything for long, even the game! Yet even in Nick, we've seen him competing with Leo or Raph for the high score on their pinball game, a feat which can take hours. And he has no problems focusing on THAT. So that pretty much negates the ADD excuse.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying except this, people with ADD CAN focus on things that interest them for hours at a time. It's the things that they don't find interesting that they have trouble with. I know this because I learned about it, and also a quick google search confirmed

Myth #2: Kids with ADD/ADHD can never pay attention.
Fact: Children with ADD/ADHD are often able to concentrate on activities they enjoy. But no matter how hard they try, they have trouble maintaining focus when the task at hand is boring or repetitive.

Also, I think we can all agree that in this incarnation they wanted to turtles to be younger versions of themselves, who will mature into the characters that they're supposed to be. He's just playing the role of childlike younger brother.

[Luckyday]

Yes, because the preview looked bad. While the clone acted completely normal.
I don't understand how you fail to see the issue. Unless Mikey's a psychic him attacking the clone was uncalled for.

Agreed. It's bad and lazy writing when a writer can't show or even explain why a character would know something out of the blue. It's same as character suddenly hated another character without any explanation other then that he's the bad guy of the show.

This show tends to disconnect with its audience in either explaining why/how character knows something or gives too much exposition on something that the audience can figure out by themselves.

There is also sometimes a bigger disconnect with what they trying to convey in certain scenes verse what the audience see on screen.

The big two that comes to mind is the huge cluster **** that was in the end of A Foot To Big and pretty much everything that Shredder does as a leader.

[Gunstar_Red]

I agree with Bubbly. Mikey definitely goes with his gut and feel vibes. I didn't see anything wrong with him distrusting clone-mom right off the bat, because if I was him, I wouldn't trust her either. While others ignored the warning signs and accepted that April got her mother back, Mikey knew something was off about her. Not to mention, when there's an animal (Ice Cream Kitty) in a movie, book, cartoon, etc and if that said animal doesn't like a certain character, you know that character must be hiding something.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying except this, people with ADD CAN focus on things that interest them for hours at a time. It's the things that they don't find interesting that they have trouble with. I know this because I learned about it, and also a quick google search confirmed.

Also, I think we can all agree that in this incarnation they wanted to turtles to be younger versions of themselves, who will mature into the characters that they're supposed to be. He's just playing the role of childlike younger brother.


The problem with that argument is that it can apply to almost ANYONE. Anyone can focus on things they like while basically zoning out on things that are boring or repetitive, so that's not even really exclusively an ADD trait in the first place. Ask any kid in school who has to complete an assignment of 50 math problems, and they will tell you they get bored and their mind will start to wander. That has nothing to do with having ADHD, it's just part of human nature to want to do something else when confronted with a task that holds no interest or is repetitive and boring. Honestly, I think a lot of ADD diagnosis is really just boredom being misdiagnosed as a disorder.

[Vicky82]

I do feel that Mikey's bad vibes is going to happen again. Maybe when Raph turns due to having the mind serum, I bet Mikey will feel there something wrong with Raph.

[Keroscene]

Y'know, aside from Nick (and possibly an episode or two in 4Kids), none of this has ever been true. Mikey's original character was never intended to be hyper or act "dumb" by any means.

You are mis-remembering the old toon MASSIVELY here. Mikey in the old toon would get enthusiastic about absolutely any old crap - magic, April being on TV, pizza, random TV shows, surfing, skating, toys, fuzzy dice... And he frequently did things that led both his brothers and the entire audience to mischaracterise him as "dumb," just as they do with 2k12 Mikey. Seriously, about 25% of Raph's jokes in the old toon are about Mikey being "the dumb one."

It's hilarious how people are talking about 2k12 Mike as if the character's never been called "dumb" before.

Nick's taken everything "bad" or flawed about the character, and turned it up to 11, then slapped the ADHD label onto it as an excuse."

I'm not sure Nick have slapped a label on him here, I think some idiot writing publicity materials has done it. It doesn't count as canon just because some intern makes a remark about ADHD in promo stuff. If they'd thought it through, they would have realised that slapping a label like that on a character in a kids TV show isn't a good idea. Nonetheless, hyperactivity and lack of focus can be seen as ADHD traits, whether they're consistent or not.

For me, Nick have taken all the BEST stuff and turned it up to 11. I don't see any problem with hyperactivity, or extreme naivety, or being unconventional or not paying attention to everything that's said. These things make him entertaining and cartoons exist to provide entertainment.

And Mirage and IDW Mikey are neither bland nor boring. They are by far the most realistic versions of him, making him a well-developed character who does more than just provide humor.

They are BORING. Mikey is an after-thought in Mirage and IDW. The focus on Mirage was always on Raph and Leo and occasionally on Don. Mikey's personality in the comics was always driven by "oh we better give him something to do." He had hardly any role compared to the others.

In IDW, he was the one to first befriend Slash, to go off on Raph about causing problems while Leo was missing, he was the one to get the info on the Foot meeting that led to Leo's rescue, and the one who rescued Princess Trib in Dimension X.

You are not naming interesting character traits here, you are naming plot developments. And in all of these plot developments, the same role could have been easily adopted by any of the other Turtles. It could have just as easily been Raph doing all those things. Again, this was about "giving Mikey something to do."

In Mirage, he was a writer, kept a pet, and was the one who kept the others from sinking into despair more often than not.

He wrote one story in one issue and the reason people have made it into a significant character-trait is because they're scratching around for ANYTHING in the comics which suggests an actual personality. Keeping a pet is not a "trait" especially when your relationship with that pet is boring and cliched.

As for keeping the others from "sinking into despair." Look over the years, fandom has taken traits that were hardly ever evident from the comics and turned them into a big deal. It does this because admitting that Mikey isn't really a main character in the comics is unappealing. And unfortunately, fandom has been telling itself this is true for so long that they've bought into it. But Mikey does hardly anything compared to the other Turtles, who all have big arcs and comparatively complex arcs.

What the cartoons have done is to provide an actual personality in lieu of the almost-blank template presented by Mirage And it says a lot that the character became the most iconic of the four as a result.

[Powder]

Literally everything you said is off the mark. I'm impressed.

[Leo656]

Literally everything you said is off the mark. I'm impressed.

HAH! True story. :lol:

[Keroscene]

Literally everything you said is off the mark. I'm impressed.

Literally everything you say is completely asinine.
Mikey having a much smaller role in the Mirage series isn't a controversial fan theory I just pulled out of my ass. You'd have to be reading with your eyes shut not to notice.

[Amaranthus]

Guys, I'm having a déja vu.

[Leo656]

I swear you just said that a little while ago.

[Amaranthus]

Fat people. Amirite guise?

[Keroscene]

Fat people. Amirite guise?

Not interested in ruining a thread that's mostly been on topic just for episode 2 of the Amaranthus and Friends Variety BS Hour.

But it's interesting how the same people 3 people keep jumping in on this stuff.

[DarkLightDragon]

Because you instigate them.

[CaliperCat]

From what I can recall of that episode, Mikey was witness to more of mom-thing's more questionable moments than most of the others, at least at first, so naturally he'd be more suspicious of her (thus having less to do with how perceptive he is and more to do with luck). Admittedly, I didn't much care for mom-thing either: She had this overly clingy-controlling vibe, and having known people with parents like that, that made me suspicious of her motives pretty early on. So Mikey not liking her much makes sense to me, no matter how he came about such feelings.

I could see Mikey being ADD/ADHD, and I could also see him just being that immature. I don't think Mikey is truly stupid- I think he makes several questionable decisions, but that seems more impulsive to me than just raw stupidity. Splinter pointed out that he doesn't do a whole lot of thinking, but this doesn't make him any dumber than his busier-minded brothers: It just makes him a more relaxed fellow. I can see him being slower to mature than the other turtles, though, because he does keep such an innocent, childish outlook on life, while his brothers take everything much more seriously.

I liked how it seemed as though Mikey had made great steps in maturity between seasons one and two, and I'm sorry that he seems to be regressing. I don't dislike Mikey, but he's probably my least favorite turtle in this particular version (which is odd, because I thought I was going to end up liking him the most). I wish they'd make him a bit less slapstick, with more focused humor, and that they'd focus a little more on just how much raw talent he really does have. He's my favorite turtle to watch in battle scenes, because he's just so flamboyant while also being extremely effective.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You are mis-remembering the old toon MASSIVELY here. Mikey in the old toon would get enthusiastic about absolutely any old crap - magic, April being on TV, pizza, random TV shows, surfing, skating, toys, fuzzy dice... And he frequently did things that led both his brothers and the entire audience to mischaracterise him as "dumb," just as they do with 2k12 Mikey. Seriously, about 25% of Raph's jokes in the old toon are about Mikey being "the dumb one."

It's hilarious how people are talking about 2k12 Mike as if the character's never been called "dumb" before.

It doesn't count as canon just because some intern makes a remark about ADHD in promo stuff. If they'd thought it through, they would have realised that slapping a label like that on a character in a kids TV show isn't a good idea. Nonetheless, hyperactivity and lack of focus can be seen as ADHD traits, whether they're consistent or not.

For me, Nick have taken all the BEST stuff and turned it up to 11. I don't see any problem with hyperactivity, or extreme naivety, or being unconventional or not paying attention to everything that's said. These things make him entertaining and cartoons exist to provide entertainment.

They are BORING. Mikey is an after-thought in Mirage and IDW. The focus on Mirage was always on Raph and Leo and occasionally on Don. Mikey's personality in the comics was always driven by "oh we better give him something to do." He had hardly any role compared to the others.

You are not naming interesting character traits here, you are naming plot developments. And in all of these plot developments, the same role could have been easily adopted by any of the other Turtles. It could have just as easily been Raph doing all those things. Again, this was about "giving Mikey something to do."

He wrote one story in one issue and the reason people have made it into a significant character-trait is because they're scratching around for ANYTHING in the comics which suggests an actual personality. Keeping a pet is not a "trait" especially when your relationship with that pet is boring and cliched.

As for keeping the others from "sinking into despair." Look over the years, fandom has taken traits that were hardly ever evident from the comics and turned them into a big deal. It does this because admitting that Mikey isn't really a main character in the comics is unappealing. And unfortunately, fandom has been telling itself this is true for so long that they've bought into it. But Mikey does hardly anything compared to the other Turtles, who all have big arcs and comparatively complex arcs.

What the cartoons have done is to provide an actual personality in lieu of the almost-blank template presented by Mirage. And it says a lot that the character became the most iconic of the four as a result.


Um, NO, I'm not. I own about half the seasons of the OT, and watch them frequently, so my memory on the subject of Mikey (my favorite turtle, BTW) is pretty darn good- it HAS to be, as I use that show as the basis for a lot of my fic-writing! I've gone through about half the series more than once in the past year to seek out bits to "borrow" for my fics, and most of those deal with Mikey's personality or instances where he has done things on his own, or even just specific plot arcs and situations that work into what I'm currently writing. So, yeah, I'd say my memory of the OT (and 2K3, too, as I've blended ALL versions of the TMNT into my AU) is pretty clear and RECENT.

Mikey was never outright "dumb" in that series at all, and in fact, the episode "What's Michelangelo Good For" is a perfect example of why. "Funny, They Shrunk Michelangelo" is another. In both instances, he was on his own, and handled the situations in those episodes very well. I will also point out that there is a BIG difference between being enthusiastic about things one enjoys, and being "spastic" or hyper-active. He loved comics to the point he once kept reading an issue while on a mission, and was reprimanded for not helping/paying attention during that entire episode, but that has nothing to do with being ADHD, any more than someone who walks around with their nose plastered to their cell phone 24/7 does. It's the same thing. And that's not being "dumb" it's simply a case of not using one's common sense, or as another poster put it, Mikey is very spontaneous and impulsive. Impulsive behavior could certainly be MISTAKEN for being ADHD, but that in itself is no basis for being labeled as such.

The funny thing about Raph (or anyone else) calling him dumb in ANY version, is that he proves them wrong time and time again. It's part of the running humor of both those shows that Raph likes to refer to Mikey as an idiot, lame-brain, etc- all the while, Mikey continually points out things the others miss, proves to be expert in areas the others dismiss, or just ends up coming up with the absurdly brilliant ideas that save the day as often as Donnie's well-thought out schemes. So that's a ridiculous argument in the fist place, as it's patently not true. Several posters have called him immature, and I whole-heartedly agree with that, but that is NOT the same as being "dumb"!! A child prodigy can still be immature, or the most mature kid in school can still be dumber than a box of rocks- you're pulling straws here, my friend.

As for whether Nick's writers slapped the label on him or someone on the site did, it hardly matters. It's part of their site, and their "take" on the character, right or wrong. No, there's nothing wrong with immaturity or naivety, but taking it to such extremes just diminishes the character by turning him into a walking joke. No one is THAT dumb, immature, hyper, and naïve ALL the time! Even his supposedly good traits are made to be "funny", like how he licks ICK (um, REALLY??!!) unchains Leatherhead without consulting his family, or his "bad vibes" about April's mom coming seemingly out of nowhere after only just meeting her. It's absurd and ridiculous to expect anyone to act like that. Movie Mikey never did any of that kind of dumb crap. And HE was based off of Mirage and the OT!

Also, what you call "boring" is actually "deep". He was much more subdued and laid-back in Mirage, with a "come-what-may" attitude and an optimistic outlook that was rarely ever shaken. He was quieter, yes, but hardly boring. There is a short story in Tales that sums him up perfectly, and it has become one of my favorite Mikey comic stories. It's only six pages, but it beautifully shows who he is. In it, he's telling his brothers a long, complicated joke about a turtle going into a bar day after day asking if they have turtle food, only to be rebuffed by the bartender each time, until the man loses his temper and threatens to nail him to the floor. The next day, the turtle goes into the bar again, and this time asks if they have any nails. After getting the expected angry negative response, he proceeds to ask again in they have any turtle food! And over this joke, Mikey is explaining why he tells jokes, goofs off, and pulls pranks- because he believes that humor is the ultimate tool for peace. He explains that one of his role models is Charlie Chaplin, who supposedly stopped WWI for a couple of hours when one of his movies premiered, and everyone was too busy laughing in the theaters to fight. That's Mikey, right there. His quote of "Can't throw a punch, can't shoot a gun, when your gut's got a guffaw it's just got to get out. Laughter lessens war. Humor helps foster peace." and a little later- "the struggle for peace with the least resistance and the most fun. Humor is that power." Right there, we see a far deeper, more complex, and more insightful Mikey (in Mirage!) than Nick could ever BEGIN to show us. What you call "boring", I call layered.

Incidentally, IDW's Mikey could NOT be replaced in ANY of those situations, certainly not by Raph! Mikey was the FIRST to take any initiative to rescue Princess Trib, something none of the others had any interest in doing. Raph even calls it Mikey "playing hero". Which it IS, as he appears to be having his own "Star Wars" moment at that time when he sees the Stone Warriors kidnapping her. None of the others would have done that. Neither would anyone else have tried to befriend Slash by offering him a candy bar. These are not just "plot developments", they are character traits and development shown THROUGH plot points. Big difference.

As for the fandom taking traits that were "hardly evident" in the comics, it IS evident- just look at the "Tales" issues where the others are older and each has gone his own way- they are often very melancholy in narration, outside of the stories themselves. This is likely due to not having his influence around, though this is perhaps subjective- but that one issue of Tales in which he is telling the joke about the turtle shows that he keeps them laughing to bring peace and happiness into their lives, and it makes perfect sense that without his influence, they would be far more nostalgic and depressed.

[ssjup81]

From what I can recall of that episode, Mikey was witness to more of mom-thing's more questionable moments than most of the others, at least at first, so naturally he'd be more suspicious of her (thus having less to do with how perceptive he is and more to do with luck). Admittedly, I didn't much care for mom-thing either: She had this overly clingy-controlling vibe, and having known people with parents like that, that made me suspicious of her motives pretty early on. So Mikey not liking her much makes sense to me, no matter how he came about such feelings.

I could see Mikey being ADD/ADHD, and I could also see him just being that immature. I don't think Mikey is truly stupid- I think he makes several questionable decisions, but that seems more impulsive to me than just raw stupidity. Splinter pointed out that he doesn't do a whole lot of thinking, but this doesn't make him any dumber than his busier-minded brothers: It just makes him a more relaxed fellow. I can see him being slower to mature than the other turtles, though, because he does keep such an innocent, childish outlook on life, while his brothers take everything much more seriously.

I liked how it seemed as though Mikey had made great steps in maturity between seasons one and two, and I'm sorry that he seems to be regressing. I don't dislike Mikey, but he's probably my least favorite turtle in this particular version (which is odd, because I thought I was going to end up liking him the most). I wish they'd make him a bit less slapstick, with more focused humor, and that they'd focus a little more on just how much raw talent he really does have. He's my favorite turtle to watch in battle scenes, because he's just so flamboyant while also being extremely effective.I agree with this. Also, Mikey seemed to sense something was off after looking into her eyes. Mikey is very intuitive. Maybe it's an ongoing thing...Mikey can easily sense something is off with a person (Momthing) or when a person isn't actually a threat despite their loom (Leatherhead) or maybe Mikey is a bit more sensitive to Dimension X creatures since he was trapped there for so long or maybe it's a green eye thing. Irma's eyes were green and so was momthing's.

[Amaranthus]

From what I can recall of that episode, Mikey was witness to more of mom-thing's more questionable moments than most of the others, at least at first, so naturally he'd be more suspicious of her (thus having less to do with how perceptive he is and more to do with luck). Admittedly, I didn't much care for mom-thing either: She had this overly clingy-controlling vibe, and having known people with parents like that, that made me suspicious of her motives pretty early on. So Mikey not liking her much makes sense to me, no matter how he came about such feelings.

Mom-Thing did nothing suspicious until after he attacked her in front of April.
How many times do I have to repeat this?

[Jester]

I'm rewatching the episode as I type, and Amaranthus is right. Mikey just has "a bad feeling about this" and sees April's mom staring at moon or something...but otherwise he is just suspicious for no clear reason.

[Keroscene]

Um, NO, I'm not. I own about half the seasons of the OT, and watch them frequently, so my memory on the subject of Mikey (my favorite turtle, BTW) is pretty darn good- it HAS to be, as I use that show as the basis for a lot of my fic-writing!

I'm not saying that you've recalled the details incorrectly, I'm saying that we tend to look at the OT through rose-tinted spectacles or we hold onto ideas we had about the characters when we first watched it. We cut those OT characters a lot more slack than we do when we see them, often doing very similar things, in 2k12.

Mikey was never outright "dumb" in that series at all"

I haven't said that he was dumb. I'm saying OT Mikey also had other characters saying he was dumb and also had people in the audience thinking he was dumb. The sentiments displayed towards 2k12 Mikey are nothing new. And from rewatching those old episodes for years and years, I don't really think there's a big intellectual difference between OT Mikey and 2k12 Mikey.

It's revealing that fans were concerned that 2k12 Mikey might be "dumb" even before the show premiered. That concern stemmed from the fact that some people had interpreted OT Mikey that way years before. And so it becomes a confirmation bias thing, whereas the dumb things that other characters do are dismissed much more easily.

It's absurd and ridiculous to expect anyone to act like that.

I don't agree because most of those decisions worked out pretty well and real people do strange things all the time, but even if it was totally absurd and ridiculous, does it matter? This is a cartoon, why does it need to present a realistic portrayal of behaviour? Realism doesn't automatically make something more entertaining and it doesn't automatically make a character more endearing or engaging.

He explains that one of his role models is Charlie Chaplin, who supposedly stopped WWI for a couple of hours when one of his movies premiered

Yeah I know the issue and I'm afraid this is a personal taste thing: you think it's a deep intellectual story and I don't. For me, stories which try to explain character traits are misguided and pretentious. Nobody needs a reason to make jokes, it's something that people do.

Also - the character had a 20 year history within Mirage alone. The odd story here or there can't be used as a definitive guide to "what the character is like."

Mikey was the FIRST to take any initiative to rescue Princess Trib, something none of the others had any interest in doing.

Because the writer wanted the story to go that way. There's no "character reason" that another character couldn't have done the same thing, it was just in the interests of the story.

Which is fine, writers can use characters however they want in order to serve the story as far as I'm concerned. But if you're going to point to plot developments and say "this tells us something about the character," then there needs to be a legit reason that another character couldn't have been inserted into their place.

[Shiro Kame]

True, but some of the things he's done is NO EXCUSE.

He almost destroyed months of work on Donatello's retromutagen in the last 2-parter. When he should have knew better than to mess with Donatello's things (like in Shellacne and when Ice Cream Kitty was created).

A bit pet peeve for me was the Croaking, where Mikey basically caused a plot that could have been avoided. He suffers basically no consequences for running away after being told to clean up a mess that HE made. Great moral to treat kids.

Also in Buried Secrets, the infiltrator should have done something suspicious. She did seem a little cold to April in that frame, but that was not a good enough reason for Mikey to attack her. Although, I have my suspicions of what Mikey's "false claims" were resulted from.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, because the preview looked bad. While the clone acted completely normal.
I don't understand how you fail to see the issue. Unless Mikey's a psychic him attacking the clone was uncalled for.

What the hell do you mean by the preview? Are you saying the preview of the show?

You don't have to be a psychic to get a bad vibe about something. I'm proof of that because I've gotten bad vibes about things before and they've always been right. I had a bad vibe that the guy my sister dated wasn't a good person and that the relationship would fail, and it did. So that's the point I'm trying to make here.

[DarkLightDragon]

But he's talking about seeing mom-thing do or say something that would indicate she's maybe not April's mom. Him getting a "bad vibe" without sufficient evidence/proof of what he saw or believes isn't a good enough excuse as to why they should automatically believe him.

[Vicky82]

I do think that Mikey's bad vibes in Buried Secrets is foreshadowing and will be brought up again later and maybe his bad vibes will be more stronger and his brothers will listen to him this time.

I wonder if Mikey will sense something is wrong with Raph if he ends up under the Mind Control Serum. Raph could act normal at first but then will act strangely later and Mikey could pick up on that.

[Amaranthus]

What the hell do you mean by the preview? Are you saying the preview of the show?

You don't have to be a psychic to get a bad vibe about something. I'm proof of that because I've gotten bad vibes about things before and they've always been right. I had a bad vibe that the guy my sister dated wasn't a good person and that the relationship would fail, and it did. So that's the point I'm trying to make here.

You were talking about the preview of the 2014 movie. You said your gut told you it would be bad. Do not compare disliking a preview of a movie to magically knowing if someone is trustworthy or not. Seriously.

[DarkLightDragon]

I do think that Mikey's bad vibes in Buried Secrets is foreshadowing and will be brought up again later and maybe his bad vibes will be more stronger and his brothers will listen to him this time.

I wonder if Mikey will sense something is wrong with Raph if he ends up under the Mind Control Serum. Raph could act normal at first but then will act strangely later and Mikey could pick up on that.

That would require this show to not have plot amnesia for once for something that miniscule of Mikey's character to have.

[Amaranthus]

Isn't it funny? In the first episode of this show Mikey was fascinated by the lights in the window of a psychic, and now he's a psychic himself!
How cool is that?!!
I'm not even joking. It's a poor screenshot but it says fortune-teller.
Mikey was destined to tell the future.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a9/2b/10/a92b10188eb9cc151c8884610d216748.jpg

[Vicky82]

That would require this show to not have plot amnesia for once for something that miniscule of Mikey's character to have.

Well they didn't have plot amnesia on his other moments.

Like in Mikey gets Shellacne, they didn't take Mikey seriously when he had an idea about going to find Stockman in his old lab. Now they do listen to his ideas.

In Parasistica Mikey wasn't alowed to fire Shell Razor weapons, he did at the end and ever since that episode you see him fire the weapons reguarly even in new turtle van.

Don't forget he lead the team in Into Dimension X and then again in Battle for New York part 2 so there was no plot amnesia here.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm not saying that you've recalled the details incorrectly, I'm saying that we tend to look at the OT through rose-tinted spectacles or we hold onto ideas we had about the characters when we first watched it. We cut those OT characters a lot more slack than we do when we see them, often doing very similar things, in 2k12.

I haven't said that he was dumb. I'm saying OT Mikey also had other characters saying he was dumb and also had people in the audience thinking he was dumb. The sentiments displayed towards 2k12 Mikey are nothing new. And from rewatching those old episodes for years and years, I don't really think there's a big intellectual difference between OT Mikey and 2k12 Mikey.

It's revealing that fans were concerned that 2k12 Mikey might be "dumb" even before the show premiered. That concern stemmed from the fact that some people had interpreted OT Mikey that way years before. And so it becomes a confirmation bias thing, whereas the dumb things that other characters do are dismissed much more easily.

I don't agree because most of those decisions worked out pretty well and real people do strange things all the time, but even if it was totally absurd and ridiculous, does it matter? This is a cartoon, why does it need to present a realistic portrayal of behaviour? Realism doesn't automatically make something more entertaining and it doesn't automatically make a character more endearing or engaging.

Yeah I know the issue and I'm afraid this is a personal taste thing: you think it's a deep intellectual story and I don't. For me, stories which try to explain character traits are misguided and pretentious. Nobody needs a reason to make jokes, it's something that people do.

Also - the character had a 20 year history within Mirage alone. The odd story here or there can't be used as a definitive guide to "what the character is like."

Because the writer wanted the story to go that way. There's no "character reason" that another character couldn't have done the same thing, it was just in the interests of the story.

Which is fine, writers can use characters however they want in order to serve the story as far as I'm concerned. But if you're going to point to plot developments and say "this tells us something about the character," then there needs to be a legit reason that another character couldn't have been inserted into their place.


See, it's not "rose-tinted spectacles" if it's a recent viewing used to objectively dissect the character's personality, which is precisely my point. I'm going into those episodes LOOKING for traits to use, particularly those that are regarded as part of the core "canon" personality of those characters. Things that actually FIT the character's accepted personality and behavior. And I don't cut them any slack at all- I tend to notice all the more where writers have made them over-the-top or extreme in certain portayals, like when Mikey was reading his comic in the middle of a fight in the OT.

As for being dumb vs. being SEEN as dumb- that's a big distinction, and honestly, OT Mikey was never actually dumb in practice- he was only seen that way because of his manner of speech, which was that of a laid-back surfer/slacker type, or to put it simply, a beach-bum. But just because he has that low-key, simple way of speaking (which he only had in THAT version, BTW- 2K3 Mikey was less extreme in his surfer talk) doesn't mean he isn't still intelligent. Perception is often colored by personal bias, and it seems that fans who think of him as dumb because of how he talks, are biased to begin with. He's been compared to Spicoli a number of times, but the only REAL similarity is the tone of voice and ultra-chilled manner.

Fan concerns about Nick Mike being dumb before it premiered probably had a lot to do with the previews, which only showed him being immature and goofy. So that would have been a legitimate concern, and it's been borne out by his portrayal in the series- only much WORSE than the previews ever let on!

Cartoon or not, it's really just ridiculous for him to act that way so often, it's just- silly. Which is apparently what they are going for in this version. He's the one intended to bring in the young kids, just as he was in the OT- except that in the older cartoon, he was at least written to be more mature and intelligent overall, with the occasional goofiness being just a more subtle part of the overall tone of the show, rather than being blatantly shoved in viewers face in EVERY SINGLE EPISODE.

Wow, so stories that center around characterization rather than a defined plot are pretentious now? Because that's exactly what that story was. It was a character study- a bit late in coming, but still just as telling. It showed his thought process and what he believes in. So was the one where he's reading his book to Klunk. These are not plot-driven stories, but CHARACTER-driven ones. There are others, I'm sure, but I haven't read enough of Mirage to point them out, since I only own a few of the Classics and Tales TPB's. IDW, however, I've been following from the beginning, and can pull any arc out and re-read at any time- they sit right next to my PC for easy access when I need to look something up. (So do my few Mirage issues and my one volume each of the Archie and Dreamwave comics.)

As for Mikey in IDW, he's been consistently shown much more like the Mikey from the original movies. And no, no other character could or WOULD have done those things- it's not IN their characters to behave in that way. It's not a matter of the writer wanting the story to go that way, it's a question of which character would act like that and "play hero" to rescue a princess he JUST MET?! Oh, that's right, Mikey would. Because he's preoccupied with comic books and superheroes, and wants to do more than just hide in the shadows. You want a legit reason another character couldn't have done it? Because they had no INTEREST in doing so!

Mikey is the ONLY one who shows any vested interest in doing the "heroic" thing, because it's part of his character, and HAS BEEN since the OT. *cough, Bugman, cough* Or did you forget he was Turtle Titan in 2K3? They did several episodes all about his desire to "be the hero". Because he has that desire to be recognized and accepted more than any of the others. (Except perhaps Raph, but he doesn't have the patience or temperament to go in for those sort of theatrics.) IDW was merely playing off that trait with Trib, and his compassionate nature with Slash. Both of which are more in line with HIS character than any of the other three. So NO, none of the others would have "fit" in either of those situations. That's pretty obvious.

[yellowmario27]

Well they didn't have plot amnesia on his other moments.

Like in Mikey gets Shellacne, they didn't take Mikey seriously when he had an idea about going to find Stockman in his old lab. Now they do listen to his ideas.

In Parasistica Mikey wasn't alowed to fire Shell Razor weapons, he did at the end and ever since that episode you see him fire the weapons reguarly even in new turtle van.

Don't forget he lead the team in Into Dimension X and then again in Battle for New York part 2 so there was no plot amnesia here.

You're right, and I know this doesn't really have anything to do with your point, but the thing about these situations, Mikey gave everyone a reason not to trust him/take him seriously.

Shellacne- he does something reckless, and then has an idea. No one listens to him so he goes buy himself, despite them him not to. Even though it he was right, they had a right not to listen to him 100%

Parasistica- I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but he said if he was in charge of weapons, he would fire them all the time~ (or something reckless, again) which is why they don't let him/don't want him too

I guess this a whole other topic, but I feel like when he does something wrong, they always reward him...or forget about the stupid thing he did because something good came out of it.

Another example is seen when he was playing with the retromutagen in the pig and rhino episode....which previously turned a cat into a mutant, and gave him him shell acne

[BubblyShell22]

You were talking about the preview of the 2014 movie. You said your gut told you it would be bad. Do not compare disliking a preview of a movie to magically knowing if someone is trustworthy or not. Seriously.

Yes, I did say that, and I was right. My point is that bad vibes shouldn't be discounted, and if Mikey had a bad vibe about her, he had every right to act on it. Sure, he could have handled it better like maybe pulling April aside or telling her he felt something off, but she probably wouldn't have listened to him. And he was right because it wasn't really her mom anyway, so I'm sure everyone felt bad about the whole thing knowing that Mikey was right all along.

But whatever. If you don't want to agree with me, that's fine. I'm just calling it like I see it.

[Amaranthus]

Yes, I did say that, and I was right. My point is that bad vibes shouldn't be discounted, and if Mikey had a bad vibe about her, he had every right to act on it. Sure, he could have handled it better like maybe pulling April aside or telling her he felt something off, but she probably wouldn't have listened to him. And he was right because it wasn't really her mom anyway, so I'm sure everyone felt bad about the whole thing knowing that Mikey was right all along.

But whatever. If you don't want to agree with me, that's fine. I'm just calling it like I see it.

If I started to beat up random people on the street and one of them happens to have stolen some old lady's purse. Would that excuse my behaviour?

[BubblyShell22]

Depends on the situation. If someone hits you first, then, yes, you have the right to defend yourself. And if you're hitting someone who stole someone's purse while trying to stop them, that's another thing. Beating up random people? No, that's not cool.

But who cares? The chick wasn't April's mom anyway, so what's the big deal here?

[Amaranthus]

Depends on the situation. If someone hits you first, then, yes, you have the right to defend yourself. And if you're hitting someone who stole someone's purse while trying to stop them, that's another thing. Beating up random people? No, that's not cool.

But who cares? The chick wasn't April's mom anyway, so what's the big deal here?

I'm starting to think you're just trying to get me angry.

[DarkLightDragon]

Or just continue to not see your side of the argument.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm starting to think you're just trying to get me angry.

Not trying to make anyone angry. I already said that if you don't agree with me, that's fine. Just throwing out my two cents here. Sure, Mikey could have handled it better, but he didn't. As I said, I had a bad vibe about someone and told my sis about it, and she didn't listen to me, so I can see why Mikey was upset about the whole thing. He was just going off his instincts. It's not like it can be changed now, so why dwell on it?

[ssjup81]

I'm rewatching the episode as I type, and Amaranthus is right. Mikey just has "a bad feeling about this" and sees April's mom staring at moon or something...but otherwise he is just suspicious for no clear reason.Didn't he start getting a bad vibe after he saw her hug April and didn't he look into her eyes or notice a look right before he told Raph that he felt something was off about her? He didn't get the vibe until after her hug. He would know about hugs, given that he gives them a lot. It's like how he reacted to Raph hugging him in the Croaking ep. Mikey giving hugs is normal, Raph giving or initiating hugs out of the blue isn't and Mikey found that weird (I personally found it funny).

I also still wonder if it's because she was a Dimension X creature and that maybe he's more susceptible to them or something, having spent a good amount of time in Dimension X....or the green eyes thing. The ep seemed to focus on that or make it clear that her eyes were green, I felt.You don't have to be a psychic to get a bad vibe about something. I'm proof of that because I've gotten bad vibes about things before and they've always been right. I had a bad vibe that the guy my sister dated wasn't a good person and that the relationship would fail, and it did. So that's the point I'm trying to make here.Yeah, the sixth sense thing. I feel everyone has this capability. I know I've gotten bad vibes from people before without actually understanding why. My aunt's husband, when I first met him, I had a vibe of distrust. I was wrong...but in the beginning, I did feel that way. I was maybe about 11 or 12 at the time. Something felt off about him...but it did turn out I was wrong. They're still happily married to this day, but maybe at that time, he had done something "not right" and just that over time the feeling went away. Who knows.

Usually kids and animals can pick up on certain people's character traits. Even ICK was reacting to Mom-thing, wasn't she?But he's talking about seeing mom-thing do or say something that would indicate she's maybe not April's mom. Him getting a "bad vibe" without sufficient evidence/proof of what he saw or believes isn't a good enough excuse as to why they should automatically believe him.This is true too, which is why Mikey wanted to try and prove it to the others, but his trying to attack her wasn't the right way to go about it.

One thing I noticed is that this isn't the first time Mikey's been right regarding a character's true intentions...if you can call it that. He was right about Leatherhead, even though he attacked them. He got down to the root of the problem and wanted to help him when the other three didn't. To me, he seemed to sense the good in him which turned out true and he is a nice ally to the turtles (I still miss him grabbing Donnie's face though. *giggles* ). He felt something off with Mom-Thing and acted on it. Not right, but I think the show is showing that Mikey is intuitive and impulsive. He acts on his gut. Sometimes it's a good thing (like charging in to help save Leatherhead from those Kraangbots) and other times it's just....crazy, like his messing with the Retromutagen and inadvertently doing something right.
I do think that Mikey's bad vibes in Buried Secrets is foreshadowing and will be brought up again later and maybe his bad vibes will be more stronger and his brothers will listen to him this time.

I wonder if Mikey will sense something is wrong with Raph if he ends up under the Mind Control Serum. Raph could act normal at first but then will act strangely later and Mikey could pick up on that.I got this impression too. We're getting that Dark Raph arc or ep or whatever. I'm even more convinced that Mikey is going to be the first one to notice that something's off with Raph...like how he hugged him in the Punk Frog ep and felt that was strange and rightfully so. Raph NEVER initiates hugs. He's usually on the receiving end of one.Yes, I did say that, and I was right. My point is that bad vibes shouldn't be discounted, and if Mikey had a bad vibe about her, he had every right to act on it. Sure, he could have handled it better like maybe pulling April aside or telling her he felt something off, but she probably wouldn't have listened to him. And he was right because it wasn't really her mom anyway, so I'm sure everyone felt bad about the whole thing knowing that Mikey was right all along.

But whatever. If you don't want to agree with me, that's fine. I'm just calling it like I see it.For that ep, no matter what he could've said or done, they probably still would've passed his fears off as, well, nonsensical...but yeah, still turned out he was right.

[Technogeek29]

So this just goes back to my point long ago about how every cartoon version of Mike is a splint of portion of Mirage Mike taken to the extreme.

OT Mikey his go with the flow and live in the moment life mantra.

2K3 Mikey has his ego and mischievous streaked cranked up to eleven.

Nick Mikey has his cheerfulness and love for other cultures.

Not to say the other Michelangelo's don't exhibit these traits, those above are just the one's they show case more. Now all we need is one cartoon version to play more on his thoughtfulness & Sexual Deviant side since the others already play the other aspects of his personality.

P.S. To whomever said Mirage Mike didn't have a personality *deep breath* You don't like Mirage Mike (or any comic book version for that matter) and that's fine. But don't be so shallow and say he isn't a character. And plot points or not. If we were to go with that logic Parasica could've been a Raph centric episode it would change nothing. Shell acne a Don centric episode still changing nothing. And Pizza face didn't have to be just a Mikey centric episode could've been something all the Turtles were apart of. The argument "writers had to give the character something to do" can easily be said for any character and any version of said character.

[Luckyday]

So this just goes back to my point long ago about how every cartoon version of Mike is a splint of portion of Mirage Mike taken to the extreme.

OT Mikey his go with the flow and live in the moment life mantra.

2K3 Mikey has his ego and mischievous streaked cranked up to eleven.

Nick Mikey has his cheerfulness and love for other cultures.

Not to say the other Michelangelo's don't exhibit these traits, those above are just the one's they show case more. Now all we need is one cartoon version to play more on his thoughtfulness & Sexual Deviant side since the others already play the other aspects of his personality.

P.S. To whomever said Mirage Mike didn't have a personality *deep breath* You don't like Mirage Mike (or any comic book version for that matter) and that's fine. But don't be so shallow and say he isn't a character. And plot points or not. If we were to go with that logic Parasica could've been a Raph centric episode it would change nothing. Shell acne a Don centric episode still changing nothing. And Pizza face didn't have to be just a Mikey centric episode could've been something all the Turtles were apart of. The argument "writers had to give the character something to do" can easily be said for any character and any version of said character.

Mirage Mikey was closer to Sokka. He was the essential sarcastic straight man to everything around him . Raph on the other hand felt like the youngest out of the four because he had often cause the most mischievous trouble. Donnie never took any **** from Raph and told him off when he was being an ass hat. Leo was Leo without the geekiness of a teenager.

Remember when Raph carve that flintstone drawing in the Renet time travel issue?:lol:

[Technogeek29]

Mirage Mikey was closer to Sokka. He was the essential sarcastic straight man to everything around him . Raph on the other hand felt like the youngest out of the four because he had often cause the most mischievous trouble. Donnie never took any **** from Raph and told him off when he was being an ass hat. Leo was Leo without the geekiness of a teenager.

Remember when Raph carve that flintstone drawing in the Renet time travel issue?:lol:

LMAO I actually forgot about that. Yeah Mirage Raph goofed off a lot. 80's Raphael hits the mark a lot closer than some realize.

[Luckyday]

LMAO I actually forgot about that. Yeah Mirage Raph goofed off a lot. 80's Raphael hits the mark a lot closer than some realize.

Yeah I am not huge fan of OT but I can see why people like with Raph being the main reason. I like that in this version instead of being angry all the time, He's just put 100% in everything that he does and does it with such vigor. Even though people don't like him making fun of his brothers, I think that how he has fun sometimes. He has a sense of justice but only for those that deserve it.

Ralph can be a dynamic character if you go pass the brooding teenager archetype. Make him laugh and smile every now and again. He lives because he has passion, not because he hates everything.

Donnie doesn't have be nerdy stereotype, who is a shy and social inept doormat.
He can the guy that is not afraid to speak his mind and wants to do good because he can.

Leo can a kid who wants be a hero in a epic tale but discover it's not easy to do the right thing sometimes.

Mikey can be the guy that wants to be normal sometimes instead of being the stupid gross fat kid of the group. He just wants to live but can go with the flow, until he feels the need to give a reality check every once in a while.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Remember when Raph carved that Flintstone drawing in the Renet time travel issue?:lol:


Actually, that was Mikey. (Naturally!) I am sitting here with the issue in hand, and in the first panel on the last page, Don is asking MIKEY what he's doing as he taps on the stone with a hammer and chisel. Mikey replies that he's giving some archeologist a heart attack. And then in the last panel is shows what he carved, and he says "Tomorrow I'm doing the Jetsons!" The entire gag is a two-page bit-piece, that I found in my Classics vol. 1 TPB. Mikey is even singing the song as he's carving it in the first panel of the story, on the previous page. I got a good chuckle out of that one!

[Luckyday]

Actually, that was Mikey. (Naturally!) I am sitting here with the issue in hand, and in the first panel on the last page, Don is asking MIKEY what he's doing as he taps on the stone with a hammer and chisel. Mikey replies that he's giving some archeologist a heart attack. And then in the last panel is shows what he carved, and he says "Tomorrow I'm doing the Jetsons!" The entire gag is a two-page bit-piece, that I found in my Classics vol. 1 TPB. Mikey is even singing the song as he's carving it in the first panel of the story, on the previous page. I got a good chuckle out of that one!

Oh you right but to re-establish my geek card. Mikey in that issue was the straight man by pointing that if problem was in the past and that they are in the present then crisis was already averted but the plot hole went over Renet's head.:lol:

[Amaranthus]

Or just continue to not see your side of the argument.

Mikey didn't trust her, fine by me. But attacking her without her doing anything wrong is what upsets me. Can't believe people don't see the issue here.
It also bugs me how Mikey was convinced about something being wrong, and that was before he saw her dumping mutagen. Don't you guys see how ridiculous that is?

[BubblyShell22]

Not if he saw something in her eyes that was off. He was looking at her as she was hugging April, and they focused on her eyes for a second. I think Mikey saw something that wasn't right, and he attacked her because of that. It could have been handled better on both sides with the brothers not believing Mikey and Mikey attacking her. If they would have just listened to him, maybe he wouldn't have attacked her as he did. You're only looking at it from what Mikey did, but his brothers were also at fault for not taking him seriously.

[Amaranthus]

Not if he saw something in her eyes that was off. He was looking at her as she was hugging April, and they focused on her eyes for a second. I think Mikey saw something that wasn't right, and he attacked her because of that. It could have been handled better on both sides with the brothers not believing Mikey and Mikey attacking her. If they would have just listened to him, maybe he wouldn't have attacked her as he did. You're only looking at it from what Mikey did, but his brothers were also at fault for not taking him seriously.

He didn't trust her before she did that thing with her eye (which is an awful reason to be suspicious, because all she did was open her eyes.)
Even then, he only told Raph he didn't trust her.
Then he attacked her, and told his brothers.

[BubblyShell22]

It's not awful if you get a bad vibe about something and feel that something is off. I already explained to you that we all have that intuition in us, some more than others. Yes, he only told Raph, and Raph blew him off, so he's in the wrong for not listening to his brother.

[Amaranthus]

It's not awful if you get a bad vibe about something and feel that something is off. I already explained to you that we all have that intuition in us, some more than others. Yes, he only told Raph, and Raph blew him off, so he's in the wrong for not listening to his brother.

I never said having a bad vibe is wrong. I said Mikey attacked way too quickly, happened to be right and got praised even though he handled the situation wrong.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, it didn't sound like that when you posted, and I already agreed that he was wrong in how he handled it and his brothers (particularly Raph) were wrong in how they handled it by not listening to him.

[Amaranthus]

Well, it didn't sound like that when you posted, and I already agreed that he was wrong in how he handled it and his brothers (particularly Raph) were wrong in how they handled it by not listening to him.

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1440509&postcount=83
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1440593&postcount=84
You only semi-agreed with me just today.
When this argument started you didn't see the problem.

[BubblyShell22]

So, I can't change my mind over it as I think about it? Wow.

[Amaranthus]

So, I can't change my mind over it as I think about it? Wow.

I never said you could. But you're blaming his brothers now instead of just the writers. It's just bad writing.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm blaming both parties if you would pay attention to my posts. Yes, Mikey was wrong for what he did, but Raph was in the wrong for not listening to him. I just pointed this out to you, and you still continue to try and argue with me. Forget it. I'm done.

[Amaranthus]

I'm blaming both parties if you would pay attention to my posts. Yes, Mikey was wrong for what he did, but Raph was in the wrong for not listening to him. I just pointed this out to you, and you still continue to try and argue with me. Forget it. I'm done.

I'm not arguing, lol.
You're just looking for things to justify his actions.
W/e man.

[pennydreadful]

Guys, guys - the episode in question is too crappy to even be worth arguing this much over. C'mon, hug it out. :tgrin:

http://i.imgur.com/QCbHYNi.png?1

[Leo656]

Guys, guys - the episode in question is too crappy to even be worth arguing this much over.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp2fu2MRSe1qjkec8o1_400.jpg

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Oh you right but to re-establish my geek card. Mikey in that issue was the straight man by pointing that if problem was in the past and that they are in the present then crisis was already averted but the plot hole went over Renet's head.:lol:


Huh? Not sure what you're even talking about here. There wasn't any "problem" in that story, it was just a two-page one-off bit with the guys teaching Renet to play baseball while they were stuck in the prehistoric era (I'm guessing this was during those three months before they found the scepter in the fish) and Mikey was busy carving his little Flinstones "love note". That's it. He wasn't playing straight man- he was playing what amounts to the biggest prank in (pre)history!


....blaming his brothers now instead of just the writers. It's just bad writing.


Yup. ^This.

[Amaranthus]

Guys, guys - the episode in question is too crappy to even be worth arguing this much over. C'mon, hug it out. :tgrin:

http://i.imgur.com/QCbHYNi.png?1

I won't hug BubblyShell22 until I introduce her to all my toes.

[Leo656]

Her. She's a girl.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm not arguing, lol.
You're just looking for things to justify his actions.
W/e man.

I'm not justifying anything! I already conceded he was wrong for what he did, but Raph was wrong also for not listening to him. Whatever. F*ck this sh*t. I'm not hugging anybody who's going to continue to p*ss me off. I'm leaving because I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who's not going to listen.

[Luckyday]

Huh? Not sure what you're even talking about here. There wasn't any "problem" in that story, it was just a two-page one-off bit with the guys teaching Renet to play baseball while they were stuck in the prehistoric era (I'm guessing this was during those three months before they found the scepter in the fish) and Mikey was busy carving his little Flinstones "love note". That's it. He wasn't playing straight man- he was playing what amounts to the biggest prank in (pre)history!



There were several issues that took place in that one setting. Yours is a different issue and I think my was Teenage mutant ninja turtles tales of #7. That baseball game happen during the same time period when they were stuck in prehistoric times.

In the issue 7# they fought Savanti again. I think was Renet second appearance in the turtles' timeline.

[Refractive Reflections]

I thought I start a thread on this as alot of people here don't know the full details about ADHD/ADD and keep blaming the writers on treating Mikey badly and think that ADHD/ADD is just an excuse.

First off the writers are doing a great job, they are doing their homework on ADHD and other things that link with ADHD.

They are trying to get the message out there to the world that ADHD is a metal disorder and that millions of children do suffer with it. People who don't know about the condition, blame the parents and think it's a stupid excuse.

Seriously people, you need to do your homework and read up about ADHD/ADD.


If the show doesn't even bother to take the time to specifically plot the progress of the mental and emotional journeys of their characters (thanks to plot amnesia), would they actually take even more time to consider in accurately depicting ADHD/ADD? Psh.... :lol:

It seems rather... convenient this was brought up to explain Mikey's behavior, rather than just stating the cold-hard truth that this Mikey is acting dumber than usual (in comparison to Mirage and OT Michelangelo) in order to provide easy and immediate comic relief.

I mostly agree with Leo656's comment here:
I highly, highly doubt the people behind the show have put 1/10 as much thought or research into it as you have. It's a throw-away, catch-all phrase that the writers can lean on in order to make Mikey more of a Spaz, because "that's funny". Not that the condition itself isn't real, BUT, it's seriously over-played, over-diagnosed, and it's become a trendy "buzzword" used to describe any kid who's goofy.

...

I've still seen nothing from Mikey that comes close to anything like the behaviors of my friends' kids of similar age. And as I've said, I'm aware there are degrees of severity. But I maintain, Mikey doesn't have ADHD; he's just stupid. The writers don't want to own up to that, thus, the "miracle diagnosis" used by so many parents, teachers and "doctors" beforehand. It's dumb. Anyone who thinks they're trying to "keep it real" or raise any kind of awareness, or even just make Mikey more sympathetic, is giving this show's writers way too much credit. We've seen how many episodes so far? Frankly, the show's writers aren't that clever, to have even put as much though into it as you'd like to give them. We've seen ample proof of that. :lol:



Mikey did learn from his mistake from Mikey get's Shellache and it was due to his lack of confidence, he hasn't done anything like that since then.
...And here I thought Mikey seeing something so traumatic (seeing Timothy's horrific mutation in "The Pulverizer Returns!" and commenting on it) would have made him to learn not to bother touching mutagen in the first place by the time "Mikey Gets Shellacne" comes in. :roll: If witnessing traumatic experiences doesn't make Mikey learn anything significant, what will? ...A lecture from Leo? :lol:

[Luckyday]

^ Mikey even had the gull to mess with the retro mutagen and this was way after season 2 when Donnie explained clear as day, "It take ten canisters of mutagen to make this and a long time to get it done."

This wasn't somebody science project that he worked hours on. It's the equivalent of some jackass messing with somebody very expensive medication.:x

[yellowmario27]

we're just supposed to accept that he does dumb things without thinking
and sometimes/most times it works out in everyone's favor :trolleye:

question- in this series there's an established birth order that was told to us in that online cartoon, so do you think their ages differ in anything other than a few minutes/hours? because mikey seems a lot younger than the others.
I know all 15 year olds don't act the same, but considering they grew up the same way one would assume they would have the similar maturity

i'm probably over analyzing things :ohwell:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

There were several issues that took place in that one setting. Yours is a different issue and I think my was Teenage mutant ninja turtles tales of #7. That baseball game happen during the same time period when they were stuck in prehistoric times.

In the issue 7# they fought Savanti again. I think was Renet second appearance in the turtles' timeline.

Yeah, I know- that's why I mentioned it took place BEFORE they found the lost scepter when Mikey was gutting the fish they caught. I have no idea what issue # mine even is- it was apparently part of a group of one-offs, all my copy has is the title: "Meanwhile... 1000000 B.C." I didn't know they fought Savanti again (I only have the one story in my Classics vol.) but I DO know it was part of that arc. 'Tis why I mentioned it in the first place. They were explaining to Renet that she would play better than anyone else for at least a million years, LOL! I just thought it was funny that Mikey was playing a prank on some unsuspecting future archeologist by carving what he did. Ya' gotta' admit, THAT's one heck of a prank!

[Amaranthus]

Another notable case of Mikey misbehaving and getting lucky:
Mikey gets Shellacne
Mikey does something incredibly dumb: rubbing mutagen over his skin.
When his brothers don't listen to him when he suggests that Dogpound took Baxter to Baxter's old lab, he complains about not being taken seriously.
While it's his own fault.
And yet again, Mikey seems to be a psychic.
There is no reason for Mikey to suspect Dogpound took Baxter to his lab. If I was a turtle, and I saw Dogpound kidnap Baxter. The first thing that would go through my mind would be: "He's taking him to Shredder's lair."
Yet none of the other Turtles suggested this, but Mikey just happens to know even though he didn't know Dogpound wanted Baxter to make him human again.

[Shiro Kame]

I'm starting to get worried about the show. It's flanderization of things like Donnie's crush towards April and Mikey's ADHD/ADD could result in the show jumping the shark and ending up as painful and awful as modern SpongeBob.

[Amaranthus]

I'm starting to get worried about the show. It's flanderization of things like Donnie's crush towards April and Mikey's ADHD/ADD could result in the show jumping the shark and ending up as painful and awful as modern SpongeBob.

Mikey doesn't have ADHD. He's just dumb.
I've been in the class with kids who actually had ADHD. They're not incredibly dumb, they're wild and aggressive.

[Shiro Kame]

Mikey doesn't have ADHD. He's just dumb.
I've been in the class with kids who actually had ADHD. They're not incredibly dumb, they're wild and aggressive.

That's why I called it "flanderization."

[Papenbrook]

Everyone in this show is flanderized. I don't think I can deal with it.:cry:

[pennydreadful]

Everyone in this show is flanderized. I don't think I can deal with it.:cry:

http://i.imgur.com/p60KRDi.jpg?1

[Leo656]

Stupid Sexy Flanders...

[Amaranthus]

Stupid Sexy Flanders...

Feels like I'm wearing nothing at all...
nothing at all...
nothing at all!...

[Jephael]

I gotta have a Simpsons marathon sometime after my Back to the Future and Sam Raimi Spider-Man marathons.