Do you think Bebop and Rocksteady will be human before mutation?

[CyberCubed]

Since we know Bebop/Rocksteady are going to be in this film, how do you think they will be handled? I'll hate it if they go the "lab animals mutated" route with these two.

In every incarnation Bebop and Rocksteady were humans (original cartoon, Archie, IDW and Nick) prior to their mutation and Bebop was always black. Rocksteady became Russian in the Nick show but he still has blonde hair in every incarnation.

A part of what makes Bebop/Rocksteady appealing is they weren't just "farm animals" mutated but had prior human lives. It was the first "humans to animal" mutations we ever had in the series besides Splinter's human origin. What do you think?

[sethmartin]

I've always liked the "animals becoming humanoid" version of the ooze better than "last animal you touched" version. However, I agree with you on Bebop and Rocksteady starting as humans. They will probably just follow the same mutagen rules as the first movie, but you never know.

[Huzzah]

Honestly I see them keeping the human to mutant mutation. Unlike the Turtles, Bebop and Rocksteady have maintained a consistent origin, insofar as being human furst,

[IndigoErth]

I would kind of prefer it and it would seem a bit more reasonable that they were sneaky and somehow obtained DNA from those animals to use. Rather than, I dunno, stealing animals from the zoo?

At the same time though, if these two happen because Eric Sacks sets out to recreate the mutagen and make more mutants... How humans turn into another species would require more explanation when that wasn't what happened before.

Although personally, given how human these Turtles leaned, I wish they'd just go ahead and reveal that human DNA was involved to begin with with them. And I guess that way they could just claim to have recreated the mutagen but reversed the DNA part by using warthog and rhino DNA on humans this time.

[Leo656]

I bet that in the original script for the first one, where they used the mutagen on the Foot to create super-soldier mutants, that idea was pitched with the idea of using a similar method to create Bebop and Rocksteady in the sequel.

So, it could be a remnant of a discarded earlier idea, basically. It might be tough to explain in this one, but possibly easier if they had kept the original plot for the first one intact.

[CyberCubed]

I will be absolutely livid if Bebop isn't black and Rocksteady isn't white before mutation. I hate whitewashing and it was bad enough they originally planned to do it with Shredder with Eric Sachs.

[Leo656]

What if Bebop is "Jamaican Black" as opposed to "African Black"? Still good?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Fuuny, Cubed- here I thought your biggest beef would be "more nostrils".....

[Andrew NDB]

They kind of have to be. Otherwise you'll just get Tokka and Rahzar in TMNT Part 2 in the guise of a warthog and rhinoceros.

[IndigoErth]

Fuuny, Cubed- here I thought your biggest beef would be "more nostrils".....
:lol: Those two are no doubt destined to have huge ones. Will probably be able to drive a bus through them.

[Xav]

I bet that in the original script for the first one, where they used the mutagen on the Foot to create super-soldier mutants, that idea was pitched with the idea of using a similar method to create Bebop and Rocksteady in the sequel.

So, it could be a remnant of a discarded earlier idea, basically. It might be tough to explain in this one, but possibly easier if they had kept the original plot for the first one intact.Wouldn't the original script be the Blue Door?

[Leo656]

You know what I mean, the script that they were in the middle of filming when they had people from Latino Review on the set. There was a whole subplot about Sachs using the mutagen on Foot soldiers to create super-soldiers that was apparently filmed and then dropped from the final movie, probably because it betrayed Sachs as being Shredder, either in reference or otherwise.

[Commenter 42]

I will be absolutely livid if Bebop isn't black and Rocksteady isn't white before mutation. I hate whitewashing and it was bad enough they originally planned to do it with Shredder with Eric Sachs.

Make that two of us - I fully support this.

That being said, I wouldn't count on seeing them as humans for long, if at all.
Any real explanation or backstory will be eschewed for basketball or goofy Vernon tripping over himself on a date.

You know, the important stuff.

I sure hope he makes another sandwich, cause damn, that was riveting!

[Andrew NDB]

I will be absolutely livid if Bebop isn't black and Rocksteady isn't white before mutation. I hate whitewashing and it was bad enough they originally planned to do it with Shredder with Eric Sachs.

I'd be livid for even including them at a--... you know what, nevermind. Just let this trainwreck happen, and further sink anything resembling a proper Turtles movie movie by another 10 years.

[neatoman]

In this case? They will probably start out as animals, if they don't then... Well:

Well since we needed to combat you turtles or whatever since the last movie, or maybe we just felt like making more mutants for some other reason, we made Bebop and Rocksteady! Instead of just taking zoo animals and use our already successful animal-to-humanoid formula for our mutagen (which is hard to get in the first place remember), we decided to make two variations on it that turns humans into animals even though it seems to give no different results at all doing it that way. Also, we used street punks, random ass street punks...


Yeah, for the sake of simplicity they will probably start out as animals this time around.

[Andrew NDB]

In this case? They will probably start out as animals

If they're literally going out for stupid. Which is possible... and would be true to their oddly stupider than normal people personas in the Fred Wolf show... but I doubt they'd do that. They'd probably want to go more for an IDW sort of level on them, which would necessitate them being human and possessing some level of sentience before their mutation.

Otherwise, you splash some mutagen on a warthog or a rhinoceros -- and this is the nonsense Fred Wolf sort of mutagen, must be, otherwise it'd take years -- they're not going to just sit up a few hours later and talk about "Toitle soup," they're going to just charge at you and go "RAHHHHHHH!!!!" when you don't throw food their way. And probably poop all over the place.

Hell, maybe that's exactly what they're doing.

[Candy Kappa]

They'll find a way to use the wonder-cure, that also happen to mutate creatures, to act as the Fred Wolf mutagen when it's been "scientifically meddled with".

[CyberCubed]

Bebop generally has to be human because it explains where the shades and purple mohawk are from. Why would an animal be able to grow human hair (that's dyed purple no less) and wear sunglasses? It makes no sense.

Bebop being a black urban-style street punk with a purple dyed mohawk and shades on the other hand makes sense with his design.

[neatoman]

If they're literally going out for stupid. Which is possible... and would be true to their oddly stupider than normal people personas in the Fred Wolf show... but I doubt they'd do that. They'd probably want to go more for an IDW sort of level on them, which would necessitate them being human and possessing some level of sentience before their mutation.

Otherwise, you splash some mutagen on a warthog or a rhinoceros -- and this is the nonsense Fred Wolf sort of mutagen, must be, otherwise it'd take years -- they're not going to just sit up a few hours later and talk about "Toitle soup," they're going to just charge at you and go "RAHHHHHHH!!!!" when you don't throw food their way. And probably poop all over the place.

Hell, maybe that's exactly what they're doing.

Who said anything about hours? Who even said anything about them mutating within the movie? The movie will probably take place two years after the events of the first movie, that's plenty of time to make a pair of mutants.

Bebop generally has to be human because it explains where the shades and purple mohawk are from. Why would an animal be able to grow human hair (that's dyed purple no less) and wear sunglasses? It makes no sense.

Bebop being a black urban-style street punk with a purple dyed mohawk and shades on the other hand makes sense with his design.

Who knows if he'll even have a mohawk this time around?

[Orochi]

Does it really matter what ethnicity Bebop and Rocksteady are? I think really we should go for who would work in the role, and my ideal casting is Michael Chiklis as Bebop and Terry Crews as Rocksteady, yes the races are inverted to what we commonly see, but does it really matter? If the actors for the roles are right, there's no point in arguing what race they are. Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury worked great (even though the Ultimate one was already based on him) and as did Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin. Personally, I'll even be fine with them simply being animals first, given that I don't honestly think Bebop's shades and purple mohawk work in this more gritty film universe. Give him some tactical goggles and maybe a brown tuft roughly in the shape of a mohawk on his head and I'll be happy.

[Cryomancer]

They showed the turtles growing up as a flashback in the first one, so if Shredder wants useful muscle now it'll pretty much have to be adult human bruisers turned into mutants.

Unless they do indeed make some dumb "fast acting" mutagen that somehow makes them full size and brained. As full brained as those two can be, anyway. Which since that's a dumb idea, I won't be shocked if that's the case.

[Xav]

Bebop generally has to be human because it explains where the shades and purple mohawk are from. Why would an animal be able to grow human hair (that's dyed purple no less) and wear sunglasses? It makes no sense.Don had glasses and Raph had sunglasses in the first film.

[Commenter 42]

Does it really matter what ethnicity Bebop and Rocksteady are? I think really we should go for who would work in the role, and my ideal casting is Michael Chiklis as Bebop and Terry Crews as Rocksteady, yes the races are inverted to what we commonly see, but does it really matter? If the actors for the roles are right, there's no point in arguing what race they are. Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury worked great (even though the Ultimate one was already based on him) and as did Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin. Personally, I'll even be fine with them simply being animals first, given that I don't honestly think Bebop's shades and purple mohawk work in this more gritty film universe. Give him some tactical goggles and maybe a brown tuft roughly in the shape of a mohawk on his head and I'll be happy.

Except that, those are horrible choices and don't really fit the characters?

[Orochi]

Except that, those are horrible choices and don't really fit the characters?

Rocksteady is brash, loud, violent and impulsive and Bebop is a gruff New Yorker. Chiklis demonstrated he's great at doing a good New York accent and working under cgi/makeup given that he played The Thing in the Fantastic Four movies and Terry Crews can bring the comedy as well as be fairly intimidating. I don't see an issue with my choices. Probably better than whoever Bay is going to hire. Probably Tyreese Gibson and John Tuturro knowing him.

They showed the turtles growing up as a flashback in the first one, so if Shredder wants useful muscle now it'll pretty much have to be adult human bruisers turned into mutants.

Unless they do indeed make some dumb "fast acting" mutagen that somehow makes them full size and brained. As full brained as those two can be, anyway. Which since that's a dumb idea, I won't be shocked if that's the case.

To be honest, the original movies had the turtles growing up too and yet Tokka and Rahzar were instantaneous. Expecting a movie to give some kind of explanation if they were to instantly transform is probably asking too much. I think the turtles were babies as well, so just get a warthog and rhino that are older, I.E. the animal equivalent of their 30's and mutate them. I think due to the short lifespan of rodents that Splinter was older, even though realistically he's probably about a year or two old, given that most rats don't live that long at all, 4 years at the very most.

[neatoman]

Bebop and Rocksteady's ethnicities does not matter, but it's not like when Jackson was cast as Nick Fury because he could play the part. It's more like it's an irrelevant question considering that they will run around as monsters for most of the movie, if not all of the movie.

[Cryomancer]

To be honest, the original movies had the turtles growing up too and yet Tokka and Rahzar were instantaneous. Expecting a movie to give some kind of explanation if they were to instantly transform is probably asking too much. I think the turtles were babies as well, so just get a warthog and rhino that are older, I.E. the animal equivalent of their 30's and mutate them. I think due to the short lifespan of rodents that Splinter was older, even though realistically he's probably about a year or two old, given that most rats don't live that long at all, 4 years at the very most.

Yeah, but they had childish brains because they didn't grow up. I assume they want these guys to be able to speak sentences at least?

[Andrew NDB]

Who even said anything about them mutating within the movie? The movie will probably take place two years after the events of the first movie, that's plenty of time to make a pair of mutants.

I guess, if you don't mind them having the sentience and minds of a 2 year-old.

Who knows if he'll even have a mohawk this time around?

Because I'm sure TPTB will want him to be recognizable.

[Powder]

Because I'm sure TPTB will want him to be recognizable.

Maybe, but that certainly can't be said of Rocksteady's concept art-

http://i61.tinypic.com/2vim5qv.jpg

& to think, we thought the turtles had it bad.

[neatoman]

I guess, if you don't mind them having the sentience and minds of a 2 year-old.



Because I'm sure TPTB will want him to be recognizable.

Just because they have have been mutated for two years does not necessarily mean they have the minds of two year olds. Although it's not like the original Bebop and Rocksteady were much more intelligent than two year olds.

And I think a warthog monster in punk clothes is recognisable with or without a ridiculous hairstyle.

Maybe, but that certainly can't be said of Rocksteady's concept art-

http://i61.tinypic.com/2vim5qv.jpg

& to think, we thought the turtles had it bad.

Yeah film producers don't care much about accuracy.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130812224000/powerlisting/images/5/54/Goomba_Movie.jpg

Also, that kinda looks like Tokka, does it not?

[IndigoErth]

Maybe, but that certainly can't be said of Rocksteady's concept art-

http://i61.tinypic.com/2vim5qv.jpg

& to think, we thought the turtles had it bad.
http://i.imgur.com/LcVJkWB.gif

Good news, Turtles. By the time this set of movies calls it quits and they're done making fugly monsters for you to fight, you'll probably leave it looking adorable in comparison.

[Andrew NDB]

Just because they have have been mutated for two years does not necessarily mean they have the minds of two year olds. Although it's not like the original Bebop and Rocksteady were much more intelligent than two year olds.

That was exactly the point I made earlier.

[neatoman]

That was exactly the point I made earlier.

Then who is really going to care about their intellect?

[Andrew NDB]

Then who is really going to care about their intellect?

The people making the movie. Unless they're truly going balls-deep into Fred Wolf.

[neatoman]

The people making the movie. Unless they're truly going balls-deep into Fred Wolf.

Hahaha! You literally just said Michael Bay and crew intend to have sex with Fred Wolf the person!

Ahem, on to your true intent, would that really shock you? I mean the first one was basically as close to the Fred Wolf cartoon as any movie has gotten do far, it's arguably even closer to the Fred Wolf cartoon than the Nicktoon.

[CyberCubed]

The 2014 movie was closer to Next Mutation than anything else.

[Commenter 42]

Maybe, but that certainly can't be said of Rocksteady's concept art-

http://i61.tinypic.com/2vim5qv.jpg

& to think, we thought the turtles had it bad.

Sooooooo wrong. So very wrong.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Maybe, but that certainly can't be said of Rocksteady's concept art-

http://i61.tinypic.com/2vim5qv.jpg

& to think, we thought the turtles had it bad.

Doomsday and Rocksteady had a lovechild!? :teek: :tlol:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The 2014 movie was closer to Next Mutation than anything else.

Which would annoy me even more but how so?

[IndigoErth]

The 2014 movie was closer to Next Mutation than anything else.
In what way?

[Redeemer]

In what way?

They both sucked !!!!! :lol: (Peanut Gallery)

Seriously though. Design wise the two are very similar.

[pennydreadful]

NM and BayTurtles both had Raph with the do-rag but other than that, I don't see any real design similarities. They were bulkier in NM but compared to the size of the BayTurtles, they're still tiny.

[CyberCubed]

The Turtles in the 2014 movie acted exactly the same way as the Next Mutation Turtles. Especially in that scene where they were pumped with adrenaline and walked around jumping excitedly. And yeah the bandana's reminded me of it too.

[Commenter 42]

The Turtles in the 2014 movie acted exactly the same way as the Next Mutation Turtles. Especially in that scene where they were pumped with adrenaline and walked around jumping excitedly. And yeah the bandana's reminded me of it too.

They were both retarded. In NM they looked like dime-store versions of the first films costumes (the heads).

The body sculpts in NM were great looking, even if they were constantly flexed.

[turtlefanforever]

The Turtles in the 2014 movie acted exactly the same way as the Next Mutation Turtles. Especially in that scene where they were pumped with adrenaline and walked around jumping excitedly. And yeah the bandana's reminded me of it too.

you've said some ludicrous S*** before but this one takes the cake. That could not be farther from the truth. These 2 incarnations could not be farther apart. You're entitled to your opinion but this is just an out of the park stupid comment. It's disrespectful to saban and everyone who worked on that project. No offense.

[Andrew NDB]

It's interesting that in the almost-made TMNT 4 with Kirby the Magic 4th Turtle or whatever and NT:TNM both, there was a clear inclination to "continue their mutation" and enbeefen the Turtles. I guess you can't really point the finger solely at Platinum Dunes and Paramount, since both Kevin and Peter seemed to be OK with that direction, though probably not nearly to the extent they are in the latest "film." It's really the accessorizing that bothers me most.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, I can see (and did a little previously) the bandana connections. Although I'm not sure if acting excitable makes different versions inherently like either other. At that point... well, all versions have feet, so all versions are very alike. lol


"Teenagers" on an adrenalin rush acting crazy... Is there any other kind? :tlol:

[TonySiegel]

Exclusive pictures of Bebop and Rocksteady! keep it on the low don't want platinum dunes hounding me for this leak...

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/jtfq100zhnpokvh3d43y.jpg

[IndigoErth]

:lol:

Why wouldn't I be surprised if one of them does at least end up with a gun/laser/other weapon enabled robot arm or something.

[neatoman]

Both of them will be able to transform into more feral versions of themselves.

[TrickOrTreater]

Both of them will be able to transform into more feral versions of themselves.

First of all, what does that mean?

Second of all, how do you know?

[IndigoErth]

First of all, what does that mean?
B&R dressed in everyday business casual go Hulk mode.

Like disgruntled office employees.

[neatoman]

B&R dressed in everyday business casual go Hulk mode.

Like disgruntled office employees.

This exactly what I meant.

Also, I don't know that will be the case, I pulled it from my ass because it seems like something that could happen.

[Cryomancer]

It's interesting that in the almost-made TMNT 4 with Kirby the Magic 4th Turtle or whatever and NT:TNM both, there was a clear inclination to "continue their mutation" and enbeefen the Turtles. I guess you can't really point the finger solely at Platinum Dunes and Paramount, since both Kevin and Peter seemed to be OK with that direction, though probably not nearly to the extent they are in the latest "film." It's really the accessorizing that bothers me most.

It's weird because this idea keeps coming back and I'm not sure anyone ever really wanted it? There's also the 50 different times they became superheros, the anime/manga with the super mutations, and if you expand it to just a plain "let's screw with the turtles" you can count Raphael and Donatello in late Mirage and perhaps even the Image changes.

Somehow the franchise seems to have a hard-on for screwing with the TMNT's physical states, and as a long time fan I don't feel like that was ever really anything I wanted to see. Perhaps I'm alone on that, but it's so strange.

This exactly what I meant.

Also, I don't know that will be the case, I pulled it from my ass because it seems like something that could happen.

This is basically how Shredder worked in the leaked script.

[IndigoErth]

I pulled it from my ass because it seems like something that could happen.
Prob how a lot of the decisions are made for it; also the source of included fart jokes. :tlol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Bebop generally has to be human because it explains where the shades and purple mohawk are from. Why would an animal be able to grow human hair (that's dyed purple no less) and wear sunglasses? It makes no sense.


Um, Cubed, in case you weren't aware of it- warthogs already HAVE a "Mohawk" of sorts. Here:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140323062412/disney/images/f/f3/Pumbaa_in_the_first_film.jpg

And in case Disney's not enough proof, here's a real one:

http://gifts.worldwildlife.org/gift-center/Images/large-species-photo/large-Warthog-photo.jpg

Bebop doesn't need to ne human to have the Mohawk, Or the shades- but it would make more sense for his "gang-punk" look/attitude. (And I'm suddenly envisioning Bobcat Goldthwaite for his voice! LOL, it would fit, in the version, to be sure....)

Don had glasses and Raph had sunglasses in the first film.


Yeah, and there ya have it. Animals wearing "hooman stuff". Then again, they're ninjas, so they have to "blend"....

[TrickOrTreater]

Yeah, and there ya have it. Animals wearing "hooman stuff". Then again, they're ninjas, so they have to "blend"....

...sunglasses and nerd glasses aren't going to help them "blend."

You know what'd help them "blend" in more?

Not being 6 and a half feet tall roided out f*cking monsters.

Maybe they should be, oh, I don't know, 5 feet tall. Give or take an inch or two.

Boy, that sure would help in the "blending."

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Okay, you don't have to get sarcastic. I was trying to answer Cubed's question. And yes, the shades WOULD help them blend- if they were WEARING THEM. Instead of just having them hanging somewhere. Also, Mikey had them too.

[IndigoErth]

Granted if they were smaller the shades might actually have more of a chance to fit. Hmm.

Heck, Donnie's glasses could be forced to be stereotypically "nerdy" with the tape in the center if he had to break it on purpose in order widen them so they could be worn.

[Xav]

NM and BayTurtles both had Raph with the do-rag but other than that, I don't see any real design similarities.What? No they don't.

[TigerClaw]

What? No they don't.

that is correct, Raph never had a Do-Rag on Next Mutation, Neither does Michelangelo.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/ultimatepopculture/images/6/6e/Next_Mutation_Raphael.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130912044653

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130526111948/tmnt/images/3/30/Next_Mutation_Michelangelo.jpg

However, Donatello and Leonardo had a Do-Rag

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/9/92/Enemy1.png/revision/latest?cb=20140212024816

http://members.ziggo.nl/rutgergret/Gabe%20Khouth.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

that is correct, Raph never had a Do-Rag on Next Mutation, Neither does Michelangelo.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/ultimatepopculture/images/6/6e/Next_Mutation_Raphael.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130912044653

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130526111948/tmnt/images/3/30/Next_Mutation_Michelangelo.jpg

However, Donatello and Leonardo had a Do-Rag

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/9/92/Enemy1.png/revision/latest?cb=20140212024816

http://members.ziggo.nl/rutgergret/Gabe%20Khouth.jpg

Seeing this reminds me that somebody must have been skimping on the budget... :tlol:

[Commenter 42]

Those NM faces....

So disturbing.

How did they go from this
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/20565/Ninjaturtlescreatures.jpg

To this?
http://hboasiaweb.s3.amazonaws.com/ninja-turtles-the-next-mutation-s1-e2-t.jpg

It's like they're mutating into this

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ibw-IEF3Q4/U-VBccP7VlI/AAAAAAAAAwA/jzXsVWJSLYU/s1600/we-wish-you-a-turtle-christmas-TV-sp.png

to eventually become this:

http://web-tech.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/trollface1.jpg

[IndigoErth]

Clearly the effects of the mutagen became unstable over the years.

[Leo656]

Their skulls are slowly growing due to Acromegaly, the same disease that felled the mighty Andre The Giant.

Also, as you can clearly tell from the expressions in the latter photos, their skulls are each home to a nest containing millions of spiders, thus the additional swelling/enlargement. The slack-jawed, vacant stares are a dead giveaway. If you look closely at the lower corner of Donatello's mouth, you can just barely see them trying to escape.

[pennydreadful]

that is correct, Raph never had a Do-Rag on Next Mutation, Neither does Michelangelo.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/ultimatepopculture/images/6/6e/Next_Mutation_Raphael.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130912044653

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130526111948/tmnt/images/3/30/Next_Mutation_Michelangelo.jpg

However, Donatello and Leonardo had a Do-Rag

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/9/92/Enemy1.png/revision/latest?cb=20140212024816

http://members.ziggo.nl/rutgergret/Gabe%20Khouth.jpg

Whoops! My bad. :tanime: