The key to understand an alien mind is through animals

[Luckyday]

Do you think that in order to be ready to interact with aliens, we must be able to communicate openly with the animals on Earth?

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[AT-Man]

Depends on how the aliens are like. If they are the "movie grays", they probably have means to communicate with us.

[IndigoErth]

Maybe if we are the ones to find them first, and find beings who are intelligent, but a little less so than us.

If they find us first, then "The key to understand an alien mind is through animals" may be of more use to them and may consider us (and could be true) the more primitive beings in comparison.

We might find ourselves a bit like Koko the gorilla with the aliens teaching us some form of communication (:lol:), but with more eagerness to participate and get that connection open.

But going by Koko... If we were to suppose she was an animal from another planet, finding a being with the intelligence level of a gorilla may have possibilities, but I can't see it getting too far in a way that matters a whole lot in the long run. If they're smarter than that, then it may be easier to open that pathway of communication between each other and beyond what other animals might teach us.

[Powder]

Well, assuming we are to them what apes are to us, there definitely needs to be a mututal respect for all walks of life. We're no better than any other, especially if there are those beyond our grasp technologically or whatever. Regardless of aliens, we should show more love to animals, as most are vastly underestimated by your average people, intelligence wise.

[ProactiveMan]

It reminds me of that Wittgenstein quote: "If a lion could speak, we couldn't understand him".

Talking to animals would be very difficult because we don't understand the way they relate to the world.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

What's so hard to understand? You just have to put yourself in their position, and think of what matters to them. Had a cat once who could almost freaking "talk". Seriously, he had a different meow for everything, and some of them came eerily close to sounding like actual words. He had one for ice cream that actually sounded like he was saying "ice cream". I almost always knew exactly what he wanted, just because he was so communicative.

Animals DO "talk", it's just that most people don't know how to listen properly. I've never had much difficulty understanding any of mine. Cats especially, have a very complex "language", with over 100 different vocal sounds, and depending on how they are combined, and their body language, it can be pretty expressive.

There's been some really fascinating research in recent years regarding animal communication, including teaching chimps to use computers to communicate, by using symbols on a screen to convey their thoughts. It's like Koko using sign language, but taken to the next level. And the findings are that they may be more like us mentally than we thought. Dolphins, too.

[Luckyday]

Well, assuming we are to them what apes are to us, there definitely needs to be a mututal respect for all walks of life. We're no better than any other, especially if there are those beyond our grasp technologically or whatever. Regardless of aliens, we should show more love to animals, as most are vastly underestimated by your average people, intelligence wise.

At very least, we could be setting a positive example in showing compassion for non humans who are far less advance then us. If we don't treat animals with dignity then what's stopping aliens from treating us like cattle?



Maybe if we are the ones to find them first, and find beings who are intelligent, but a little less so than us.

If they find us first, then "The key to understand an alien mind is through animals" may be of more use to them and may consider us (and could be true) the more primitive beings in comparison.

We might find ourselves a bit like Koko the gorilla with the aliens teaching us some form of communication (:lol:), but with more eagerness to participate and get that connection open.

But going by Koko... If we were to suppose she was an animal from another planet, finding a being with the intelligence level of a gorilla may have possibilities, but I can't see it getting too far in a way that matters a whole lot in the long run. If they're smarter than that, then it may be easier to open that pathway of communication between each other and beyond what other animals might teach us.

To me it's practice before dealing with sentient beings that don't think in a human mind space like ours. Granted aliens are not going to be like anything we seen. Forget science fiction because as much some of them were written from a realistic probability, 92% of them were written from a human perspective and 100% created from a human writer, and let's face it, as a species, we're pretty much bias to a fault.

And for the rest of you who are saying "Animals are human as us" should be aware of the mistaking tendency of projecting our own thoughts and emotions on to them.

Also I can describe a counter argument that describe this perfectly in three words.

Baby-Eating Aliens (http://lesswrong.com/lw/y5/the_babyeating_aliens_18/)

How would you deal with aliens' orange and blue morality without causing a knee jerk reaction of a intergalactic war?

[Powder]

Yeah, that's sort of the point I was trying to make. I agree.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

At very least, we could be setting a positive example in showing compassion for non humans who are far less advance then us. If we don't treat animals with dignity then what's stopping aliens from treating us like cattle?

And for the rest of you who are saying "Animals are human as us" should be aware of the mistaking tendency of projecting our own thoughts and emotions on to them.



There is merit in that, to whit, we SHOULD show compassion and respect for other living beings, not just from other worlds, but especially the ones we share the planet with. It's just good sense, because we depend on the balance of nature as part of our own survival. If we can't share the world and keep from destroying/fouling up our own home, we can't be expected to share space with other intelligent beings, either.

And re: the issue of "animals are as human as us", emotionally, there is little difference between a human and a dog or whale. They can and do get angry, depressed, feel contentment, compassion, sadness, etc. Just because they don't have the same emotional triggers or expressions as us, doesn't invalidate those emotions, it simply means they express them in a different manner, and for somewhat different reasons. Animals kept together and then separated after a long time, will feel lonely, depressed, and even sometimes lose interest in eating or other essential activities. Animals can and often do show affection for others, sometimes even a different species from themselves.

Intellectually, there has been much study showing that some of the "higher" animals (mostly mammals and a few birds) can understand abstract concepts to some degree, have self-awareness, and some can plan or weigh choices. So it's a bit arrogant and short-sighted for humans to assume we are different on some fundamental level, because underneath it all, WE are still animals, too. Highly evolved ones, sure, but animals, none-the-less.

[Luckyday]

Yeah, that's sort of the point I was trying to make. I agree.

Yes and I can't argue on that because you are right but my thought bubble has more to do with thinking that animals like the octopuses with mini-brains in their tentacles, as well as the main organ, who think more by touching rather then seeing and hearing like us will make us open minded in a way that will prepare us for the better.

To the day that we meet aliens, it going to be wish fulfillment and naive for us to think that they're not going act and look closer to xenomorphs from Ridley Scott's Alien and instead be a human friendly version of vulcans from Star Trek.

In order to accept that reality we need to find a way to have a dialogue with the less cuter and far less cuddly creatures of the animal kingdom. Get in their headspace a little bit and try to see things from a non human point of view.

If aliens were to somehow found out we are able to get along with non humans by treating them as equals then it would show that we are mature enough to deal with them.

[Luckyday]

There is merit in that, to whit, we SHOULD show compassion and respect for other living beings, not just from other worlds, but especially the ones we share the planet with. It's just good sense, because we depend on the balance of nature as part of our own survival. If we can't share the world and keep from destroying/fouling up our own home, we can't be expected to share space with other intelligent beings, either.

And re: the issue of "animals are as human as us", emotionally, there is little difference between a human and a dog or whale. They can and do get angry, depressed, feel contentment, compassion, sadness, etc. Just because they don't have the same emotional triggers or expressions as us, doesn't invalidate those emotions, it simply means they express them in a different manner, and for somewhat different reasons. Animals kept together and then separated after a long time, will feel lonely, depressed, and even sometimes lose interest in eating or other essential activities. Animals can and often do show affection for others, sometimes even a different species from themselves.

Intellectually, there has been much study showing that some of the "higher" animals (mostly mammals and a few birds) can understand abstract concepts to some degree, have self-awareness, and some can plan or weigh choices. So it's a bit arrogant and short-sighted for humans to assume we are different on some fundamental level, because underneath it all, WE are still animals, too. Highly evolved ones, sure, but animals, none-the-less.

So are you willing to accept baby eating aliens without pushing a personal agenda onto them?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm Wiccan, it's sort of part of my basic tenets. So to answer, yes, because I'm well aware of the flip side of that issue, having been subjected to it myself MANY times. Also, I'm sort of an armchair scientist/naturalist myself, so objectively speaking, that would be against my basic inclinations intellectually. I try to be open to different possibilities of both morality and cultural norms, even if I personally disagree with them.


Hmm, maybe I'd make a good interstellar diplomat? Fun thought, LOL! (After reading that story, I kind of saw both sides, and had to wonder how the aliens themselves would have looked at that encounter in terms of what they understood. Conclusion was that the two sides have a fundamental difference of view that might prove awkward, but not un-surmountable, assuming the aliens could refrain from pushing THEIR agendas out of simple reactionary outrage. From the initial read, the humans weren't doing so, even though they were baffled and a bit disgusted.)

[Commenter 42]

Well, assuming we are to them what apes are to us, there definitely needs to be a mututal respect for all walks of life. We're no better than any other, especially if there are those beyond our grasp technologically or whatever. Regardless of aliens, we should show more love to animals, as most are vastly underestimated by your average people, intelligence wise.

It's unfortunate that this is not obvious to everyone.

It reminds me of that Wittgenstein quote: "If a lion could speak, we couldn't understand him".

Talking to animals would be very difficult because we don't understand the way they relate to the world.

I completely agree. It would be an introduction to an entirely new culture. Imagine the multitude of things we assumed to be true, only to discover we've been wrong about almost everything.

Makes you wonder where humanity would be without a common language, or language at all.

Perhaps better off...

So are you willing to accept baby eating aliens without pushing a personal agenda onto them?

You mean, like the way millions of people eat animal babies daily?

[Luckyday]

You mean, like the way millions of people eat animal babies daily?

It's not really the same. These aliens eat their own babies, which goes against our hard primal driven instinct to protect our young.

What you talking about is no different then a lion killing a newborn calf. Lion does it because he is hungry. The reason for aliens for eat their young is something to do with their biology. In any case, neither of these actions are done out of evil or to be more precise out of emotional content like pride, angry, or hate.