Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep16: "Clash of the Mutanimals"

[Machias Banshee]

Happy first weekend of May!

So, the Mighty Mutanimals are going to find themselves in the clutches of Shredder and his goons. What kind of torture are they going to be put through? Could we possibly see some test runs of this mind-control serum we keep hearing about?

We've got 12 hours to go, let the speculation begin!

[TigerClaw]

Yeah, I could see them being under some mind control along with Raph, I bet the end of the episode will be a little tease for Mondo Gecko. :)

[Jephael]

Man, I am so pumped for this ep! It's gonna be hard for me to get any sleep tonight!!!

[snake]

Pretty excited. I hope Dark Raph lasts for a few episodes.

[jenna]

I've got no means to watch it from the UK, but I CANNOT WAIT to know what happens. Please could someone post a synopsis (under spoiler tags of course)?

[Mew]

4 Hours!!!!

[Vicky82]

Just under 3 hours to go and I haven't got a livestream, the one I used last week doesn't work this week and someone on another stream, decides to put up a Nicktoons livestream. Why do they do this to me and on this day too :x

[Meliwen]

I can't watch it right away either, but can someone please tell me, without any other spoilers, if Dark Raph is just a one episode thing or if it'll be ongoing? Thanks! When I do watch the ep, I don't want to be expecting too much, if that ends up being the case.

[Shark_Blade]

MUTANIMALS!! Yay :D :tlove:

I love em in IDW, if only they'd add Old Hob in this show. :P And that hermit krab thingy. And they apparently have better use of Mutagen Man in action in the comic, instead of useless Timothy eating dust somewhere in storage.

[Ceres]

Mutanimals means Pidgeon Pete too right? *sigh* Did i hear right that there is Dark Raphael? Sounds interesting! And did Shredder already finished this mind controlling serum?

[Redworld96]

Just under 3 hours to go and I haven't got a livestream, the one I used last week doesn't work this week and someone on another stream, decides to put up a Nicktoons livestream. Why do they do this to me and on this day too :x

As Vicky82 says, we can't watch the episode (for the moment) and this is horrible, because I wanted to see dark raph :cry:

[RandomtasticFantasy]

Looking forward to seeing it! Had to play catch up for the last few episodes via iTunes.

[TigerClaw]

Just under 3 hours to go and I haven't got a livestream, the one I used last week doesn't work this week and someone on another stream, decides to put up a Nicktoons livestream. Why do they do this to me and on this day too :x
a live stream? someone be streaming the episode online?

[Vicky82]

a live stream? someone be streaming the episode online?

Yeah thats how I was able to watch the episodes at the same time as US but not today as they arn't working properly/have the wrong stream up. It's frustrating

It looks like i'll be waiting for Anime flavor to upload it.

[TigerClaw]

Almost time.

Here we go!

[Vicky82]

I'm going to have to dissapear for a while and dig myself a hole and hide in it for a few hours :cry::cry::x:x

[TigerClaw]

Not even the Mighty Mutanimals can take on TigerClaw.

[xenopokemon]

I'm saddened about how the four Mutanimals couldn't even beat Tiger Claw. Then again he is second in command of the Foot.

Splinter just got pimp-smacked.

[TigerClaw]

I'm saddened about how the four Mutanimals couldn't even beat Tiger Claw. Then again he is second in command of the Foot.
and an expert of Martial Arts, Which the Mutanimals lack. hah

Good episode, and Mondo Gecko next week.

[Warhorse]

So, Ramboraph is right, Raph can't get have a solo episode without his "anger" being the trigger that get's him in trouble. And then super Leo comes in and saves the day. Yeah, I think I'm done with the show.

[newhire13]

Haha, nice nod having Mondo Gecko/ Robbie Rist yelling Cowabunga

[snake]

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

[Ninturtle]

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

Well the serum still has to be mastered to cure Karai so there's still hope.

[yellowmario27]

So the dark Raph situation just lasted 1 episode? :/

[newhire13]

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

Maybe but I think people may have just overhyped it for themselves a bit, assuming it would be this big thing like the comics when it was never even advertised as such. Not knocking people speculating or anything, I just think it kind of got bigger than it was ever meant to be for some people and thus may have sparked some anger.

[JTH]

Loved the Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan reference to the mind control leeches.

Very well played.

[Mellie]

It was a decent episode... I was just way too hyped from the rumors. I don't even know why that guy leaked "dark Raph" when it was such a minor thing. :ohwell:

Mondo Gecko looks fun.

[Electric]

Decent episode, but...

I'm usually not one to complain too much about the nick show, and I'm usually happy with most that they do, but I think they kind of dropped the ball on this one. There could have been so much potential with dark Raphael, and I thought they were going to. The way shredder was basically training raph to fight with no mercy, I thought we might get a full dark Raph arc. But we ended up only getting 1 fight between Raph and the turtles. But I think what bothered me the most was how they ended the mind control. Again, I was really hopeful it would last, the way raph said something to Leo about "his words not doing anything" but no. All they had to do was slightly upset raph and the mind control stopped. Just kind of disappointed because the dark Leo arc in the comics was incredible and epic in every way, in this show could have matched it.

[Mukouno]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but judging from the comments the Dark Raph plot is already over? :ohwell:

Darn, was really hoping for more, but I guess we got ourselves way too hyped up... :tgrumble:

[JTH]

And this is what happens when you learn about something in advance.

"SSS"

Spoilers Seriously Suck

If you learn about something confidential, it's best you keep it to yourself.

[Sabacooza]

What an empty unfulfilling episode. Raph gets crapped on yet again and surprise, surprise Leo saves big Ol' mean Raph from himself. Yep the writers hate Raph. That's pretty obvious. I don't think I can watch this garbage anymore.

[IndigoErth]

Welp, goodbye Raph fans that are quitting after that one. (And how much will people complain that it was Leo who, uh, I suppose used the power of harassment to get Raph back to his senses.)


Decent, not too much stood out to me personally (other than asking myself why Shredder sunk into the floor and became surrounded by fire lol), but not much in the way of complaints either, just middle of the road episode.

But the worms were kinda nasty.

They really could have extended that plot line though... Missed opportunity to make it a good cliffhanger.


Of course... I suppose they could try to catch us off guard and that isn't the real Dark Raph episode. Doubtful, but one can hope.

[NinjaPug]

Yeah, I think I'm done with the show.

Just had a case of déjà vu.

[JTH]

What an empty unfulfilling episode. Raph gets crapped on yet again and surprise, surprise Leo saves big Ol' mean Raph from himself. Yep the writers hate Raph. That's pretty obvious. I don't think I can watch this garbage anymore.
Don't try and kid us.

If he was gone for 2-3 episodes, you'd have complained even more.

Goodbye, see ya next week.

[RandomtasticFantasy]

So it was more like a blip of an episode to foreshadow what we already expected was going to happen to Kairi (looking forward to her staying captured then brainwashed and evil for a while being dragged out :roll: ) then an actual arc for Raphael like it was for Leo in the comics.

Waste of plot potential or any remote character development for Raph though not really surprised to be honest. I wasn't expected it to be exactly like the comics, though I didn't expect it to only be one episode either.

[ToTheNines]

And this is what happens when you learn about something in advance.

"SSS"

Spoilers Seriously Suck

If you learn about something confidential, it's best you keep it to yourself.

Don't be a dick.

[TigerClaw]

Oh yeah, The Shellraiser is back.

[newhire13]

I liked Leo telling Raph to finish The Shredder when he had him pinned. It feels like he realizes there's only one way this can really end, someone's gotta die.

[Foombamaroom]

I liked the episode, but I'm so pissed off. Even in a Raph centric episode, Leo had to be the hero. A Dark Raph would've been one of the best storylines yet, but they just made it into a one-episode thing. That's really a waste of potential. The writers need to realize that each Turtle needs an arc, not just Leo and Donnie.

On a brighter note, can we just talk about how Shredder took on the Turtles and the Mutanimals and still kicked some major butt?

[RandomtasticFantasy]

What an empty unfulfilling episode. Raph gets crapped on yet again and surprise, surprise Leo saves big Ol' mean Raph from himself. Yep the writers hate Raph. That's pretty obvious. I don't think I can watch this garbage anymore.

That's a bit extreme I think. The show drops the ball quite a bit on the character devlopement end, not just with Raph. Besides, if you were really going to leave because of Raph, you'd have been gone by now, as his situation hasn't improved for the longest.

[Chaotix12345]

So I guess when Brandon Auman said "loosely based" on City Fall, he meant it. Can't say that I'm that shocked by this or too disappointed since I thought the whole Dark Raph thing was complete bunk anyway until the mind control plot was introduced.

Still an enjoyable one despite any of that, though, thanks to some killer fight scenes and Mutanimal action. I liked Slash apologizing to Splinter for striking him at the end. Really shows how far he's come.

[newhire13]

Personally I ****ing love Raph on this show. Awesome lines, awesome fights, fun to watch.

[Ninturtle]

Personally I ****ing love Raph on this show. Awesome lines, awesome fights, fun to watch.

Same here he's my second favorite turtle. I just love how they blend the sarcastic and hothead elements of this character in this version.

[JTH]

Don't be a dick.
Well I'm sorry, but I don't understand what these Raph supporters are complaining about. I'm a Raph fan along with Donnie, always have been. There is no different with how he's written in any of these shows.

People keep saying "Why can't the writers make like he was in the first movie, he was awesome in that?"

I watch the first movie, it's the same thing x5. Uncontrollable temper, gets him in trouble, never does see the light. Raph fans love the first movie. If they hated that movie too then you'd have me, but they don't.

There's no difference now to what it was then. And they love that and hate this.

This is what Raph's character is, I wouldn't really think people needed 25+ years of seeing the same traits and material to see that.

[pannoni1]

The show is getting to a point like it did around Season 5 of the OT (no surprise with Muckman last week and Mondo Gecko the following week), where the arcs just became filled with tired ideas (ring of fire, random mind control, He-Man Crognard cartoon with references along with Mikey breaking the fourth wall involving how the scene previews the episode). Its the truth as shows aimed at kids tend to recycle the same plots every decade or so (basically the length of one's childhood). I do like though how its cool having seven good guys instead of four meaning that a better chance of defeating Shredder is assured. Of course today's kids will see today's episode with rose-tinted glasses like I did. It was basically a random Turtle who turned evil for just an episode. It is forgiving though as IMO the fight scenes were decent and Splinter had a good word with Slash at the end.

7/10

[MrTMNT2012]

Pains me to say this but I think I'm done with this show. :(

Just can't find any enjoyment out of it, the sporadic scheduling kills any remaining hype I had and when they finally do air a new episode, it's a complete and utter waste of time like this one!

Notify me when we have another 'Gauntlet'-tier Episode...

[AnarkyLantern]

I don't think this is over. For one thing, there's Pigeon Pete. I think he's under the effects of the serum and no one noticed in the chaos and with how weird he is to begin with. The serum's flaw, as currently formulated, is emotion and/or indigestion. If those weakness can be dealt with, or perhaps a more emotionally stable test subject used, I wouldn't rule out Cityfall.

[Luckyday]

....Ciro shouldn't be allow to talk about future episodes anymore. http://i.imgur.com/abtor4B.gif

Honestly this episode would been ok to good if I had gone into this completely cold. There is nothing broken about this episode. No stupid plot holes, plot amnesia or any of the characters being a complete tool for sake of the plot and that's good but I really wish I wasn't comparing this to a Dark sans Leo with Raph of this show.

[KrN]

People are so disappointed with this episode for ridiculous reasons. You were all hyped up at the possibility of this delving deeper than just one episode but I believe the person that heard this from Brandon Auman had said they were going to touch on it no one ever promised an actual arc, it was a nod if anything :roll:

Perhaps people should read what is said instead of creating a possible plot, getting people hyped up only to have others threaten to stop watching the show.

Chill.

[IndigoErth]

I don't think this is over. For one thing, there's Pigeon Pete. I think he's under the effects of the serum and no one noticed in the chaos and with how weird he is to begin with. The serum's flaw, as currently formulated, is emotion and/or indigestion. If those weakness can be dealt with, or perhaps a more emotionally stable test subject used, I wouldn't rule out Cityfall.
Hmmm, interesting theory. Did all the worms get destroyed I wonder? Because given how Pete is, it wouldn't surprise me if he saw a worm and immediately grabbed and ate it without thinking. Then takes a bit for the bad guys to even figure it out maybe.

[aliena]

I'll admit that when I realized Raph wasn't even going to be dark an entire episode, I was disappointed. Then I got over it. I was the one who hyped myself up for Dark Raph. Something I will not be doing again.

I was more upset over the idea that Tigerclaw could defeat the Mutanimals so easily and how no one can ever beat Shredder, at all, in a fight.

Things that I liked included getting the Shellraiser back, Mikey mentioning how the tv episodes match their lives, the hug between Raph and Leo in the end(even if it was because Leo saved the day) and using the worms like Star Trek.

[TigerClaw]

I liked the episode, And I never read any of those IDW comics.

I think its silly to complain about the episode of this show, Just because of some ideas were taken from the comic, This show is its own thing, And should not adhere to what was written in the comics before.

Do people really want half a season dealing with Raph being mine controlled?

[Sabacooza]

I liked the episode, but I'm so pissed off. Even in a Raph centric episode, Leo had to be the hero. A Dark Raph would've been one of the best storylines yet, but they just made it into a one-episode thing. That's really a waste of potential. The writers need to realize that each Turtle needs an arc, not just Leo and Donnie.I totally agree with this and I pretty much predicted this. Please get some new writers on this.:x

[TigerClaw]

I'll admit that when I realized Raph wasn't even going to be dark an entire episode, I was disappointed. Then I got over it. I was the one who hyped myself up for Dark Raph. Something I will not be doing again.

I was more upset over the idea that Tigerclaw could defeat the Mutanimals so easily and how no one can ever beat Shredder, at all, in a fight.

Things that I liked included getting the Shellraiser back, Mikey mentioning how the tv episodes match their lives, the hug between Raph and Leo in the end(even if it was because Leo saved the day) and using the worms like Star Trek.
The reason why TigerClaw was able to take down the Mutanimals, Is cause hes an expert in martial arts, The Mutanimals have no martial arts training, And there fights are more like street brawls.

[Warhorse]

Welp, goodbye Raph fans that are quitting after that one. (And how much will people complain that it was Leo who, uh, I suppose used the power of harassment to get Raph back to his senses.)
.

We may be quitting the show, but not the fandom, so, we will be around. Who knows, maybe TMNT movie number 2 might have something of substance we can latch onto. Until then, we got the other movies and 2k3 to fall back on, fan fic, home made MV's, toys and what not to keep us entertained!

Who knows, maybe in 5 years from now, maybe Nick will think about doing what Disney is doing, and dabble into more mature subject matter with the TMNT by having something on Netflix. One could hope, right?:D

[BubblyShell22]

I liked this episode a lot, and I think many of us here were expecting a longer arc when I had a feeling it wasn't going to be like that at all. Sure, I would have liked a longer arc myself, but what we got was fine with me. The worms were nasty, and I loved the fight scenes in the Lair and at Foot HQ. The ending hug was great, and it was awesome to see Leo snap Raph out of it. Also loved Mikey commenting on how Crognard references the show itself, which was cool to see. Overall, a pretty good episode. And for those who wanted something longer, there's always fan fic to keep you entertained as I'm sure there are writers out there who can make a whole story on this. Can't wait for Mondo Gecko next week!

[RandomtasticFantasy]

We may be quitting the show, but not the fandom, so, we will be around. Who knows, maybe TMNT movie number 2 might have something of substance we can latch onto. Until then, we got the other movies and 2k3 to fall back on, fan fic, home made MV's, toys and what not to keep us entertained!

Who knows, maybe in 5 years from now, maybe Nick will think about doing what Disney is doing, and dabble into more mature subject matter with the TMNT by having something on Netflix. One could hope, right?:D

Do you read the IDW comics? It may not be animated or anything like the show but the writing is great and may be more of what you're looking for. Friend got me into them recently and I have been marathon reading. On #40 now.

[Sabacooza]

Do you read the IDW comics? It may not be animated or anything like the show but the writing is great and may be more of what you're looking for. Friend got me into them recently and I have been marathon reading. On #40 now.I don't mean to butt in on your conversation but I just have to chime in and say the comics are fantastic! Very well written and a great balance for all of the TMNT. This, I'm totally into so maybe I just need to focus on the comics and not the show if that's where the enjoyment is at.

[miru]

Nice to see how they're now using established characters more.

[RandomtasticFantasy]

I don't mean to butt in on your conversation but I just have to chime in and say the comics are fantastic! Very well written and a great balance for all of the TMNT. This, I'm totally into so maybe I just need to focus on the comics and not the show if that's where the enjoyment is at.

You're not butting in at all! :lol: From the gist I am getting from fans that aren't too crazy about the show or the writing direction, this may be the best option. I don't want to flat out insult the show because I do still watch it and do want to finish Kairi's arc, but simply put: the comic's storylines and characterzations are better. Plus it has Old Hob.

But back to this episode, as I don't want to derail anything more than I have: has Shredder just changed his motives to brainwash Kairi but keep her a snake, change her back but brainwash her, or is he still even trying to change her back at this point? I find it odd he still has no idea that Donnie makes retro mutagen. Or that Donnie wouldn't have been a brainwashing target so he could force him to make it for him.

[MrTMNT2012]

I don't mean to butt in on your conversation but I just have to chime in and say the comics are fantastic! Very well written and a great balance for all of the TMNT. This, I'm totally into so maybe I just need to focus on the comics and not the show if that's where the enjoyment is at.

I can vouch for the comics as well since they're actually getting better and better! :tgrin:

Hopefully the show can be as well written and balanced in the future...

[Sabacooza]

Has Shredder just changed his motives to brainwash Kairi but keep her a snake, change her back but brainwash her, or is he still even trying to change her back at this point? I find it odd he still has no idea that Donnie makes retro mutagen. Or that Donnie wouldn't have been a brainwashing target so he could force him to make it for him.I almost feel he's more interested in brainwashing her which is what episode 18 seems to be about. Maybe he feels she's a lost cause and because he knows she'll never side with him again. Being the possessive A-hole he is, shredder will put her under mind control so he can make her obey and love him. He's a pretty sick and twisted dude.

I can vouch for the comics as well since they're actually getting better and better! :tgrin:

Hopefully the show can be as well written and balanced in the future...Hopefully, they'll change writers and then we'll get the balance we're asking for.

[CyberCubed]

This was a great episode. It wasn't much more than a series of fights but it was enjoyable from start to finish. The action scenes in this show are really well done. Also burst out laughing at Baxter and Pete slapping each other, same with Rockwell causing Don to slap himself.

Shredder taking on everyone by himself was pretty cool, even if a bit unrealistic to take on so many people at once. The human twins at the beginning were interesting as long as they aren't future mutants.

[PangolinFeets]

Hype killed the episode. XD

I was a bit disappointed it didn't last past the episode (I mean, they make Karai a snake for over a season, but Raph becomes Shredder's servant for ten minutes), but whatever. I've gotten over watching this show for anything more than fun cute turts, silly jokes, and good action. This episode had a lot of cool fights. And Rockwell made Donnie slap himself. And Mikey cuddled Leatherhead's nose. Soooo win? XD

And for the people who were talking about the comics, the IDW series is amazing. I've been in love since the City Fall arc, which this episode vaguely echoed.


Did anyone else laugh when Shredder shrank down in his stupid fire circle bunker while everyone else duked it out? XD

[Warhorse]

Do you read the IDW comics? It may not be animated or anything like the show but the writing is great and may be more of what you're looking for. Friend got me into them recently and I have been marathon reading. On #40 now.

No. I simply don't have the lifestyle/home to be collecting books/comic books. I did have a good collection at one time, but my house is weird, where it's partially outside, so it doesn't take much for the elements to start damaging books. But, I have heard good things about the IDW. Not surprised, I also heard Kevin Eastman has a hand in it, and he's been very vocal about Raph being his favorite character to write about.

[CyberCubed]

I think its always interesting when characters are absent for no reason. Like Rahzar and Fishface had no reason not to be there, let alone Bebop/Rocksteady. But since there were so many mutants here they couldn't fit them all in or pay the VA's.

Also did Shredder sitting down with his helmet off from the back remind anyone of Darth Vader?

[Huzzah]

I didn't hype myself up for this, but then again I never hype myself up for this show, because I know the confines of what Nick will allow with it. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, I just view sloshed episodes in the way one views most summer blockbusters, a way to kill sometime and don't necessarily expect deep, thought provoking works.

That being said, I would love an episode with just Rockwell and Donatello. Their back and forth is usually hilarious.

[Luckyday]

Hype killed the episode. XD

Did anyone else laugh when Shredder shrank down in his stupid fire circle bunker while everyone else duked it out? XD

It wasn't the episode that I wanted but it didn't do anything wrong so it gets a pass.

It was a bit theatrical for my taste but we're talking about a guy who wears a samurai helmet in board daylight so....not so much a stretch of the imagination here.

No. I simply don't have the lifestyle/home to be collecting books/comic books. I did have a good collection at one time, but my house is weird, where it's partially outside, so it doesn't take much for the elements to start damaging books. But, I have heard good things about the IDW. Not surprised, I also heard Kevin Eastman has a hand in it, and he's been very vocal about Raph being his favorite character to write about.

but the IDW books are also digital. I think you can read them on your computer through comixology.com.

[Ninturtle]

My theory is that perhaps Shredder will try to control Raphael again once stockman perfects the serum.

[Vicky82]

I finally got to see this episode and I didn't look at any spoilers and I really enjoyed it.

It's a shame it only lasted 1 episode and I appologize to anyone for overhyping it but I don't think it's over yet, obviously Stockman will make the serum stronger because Karai will be under mind control in Deadly Venom. So I'm wondering this is a small taste of big things to come.

back to the episode and it was intense. it had lots of action, loved the fight scenes. The score was just awesome, the animation is getting better and the camera work/angles was great

Loved that the Shellrazor is back.
Mikey picking up that there's something wrong with Slash and Dr Rockwell (Burried Secrets foreshadowed it)
Leo vs Raph was just awesome and the turtles and Mutanimals vs Shredder was awesome too
I like the car chase scene..
Pete vs Baxter was funny
Nice to see Mikey fight Tiger Claw
Mikey worried about Splinter and didn't wan't to leave him, was adorable and gave me feels.
Raph screaming when the worm entering him was frightning and left chills up my spine
Slash appologizing to Splinter gave me feels

[FoxBoxKid]

This was a run-of-the-mill villain mind controls one of the heroes plots. One of those stock plots that almost every cartoon uses, like a brainswap plot or a shrink down and travel around inside someone plot. It was kinda boring and a lot of the dialogue was unoriginal and trite. Worst episode since the turtles got back to New York, IMO.

[RandomtasticFantasy]

No. I simply don't have the lifestyle/home to be collecting books/comic books. I did have a good collection at one time, but my house is weird, where it's partially outside, so it doesn't take much for the elements to start damaging books. But, I have heard good things about the IDW. Not surprised, I also heard Kevin Eastman has a hand in it, and he's been very vocal about Raph being his favorite character to write about.

I get mine though iTunes, if you wanna try digitally. Dunno if it still is, but the first issue was free when I started getting into them about three weeks ago.

[CyberCubed]

This was a run-of-the-mill villain mind controls one of the heroes plots. One of those stock plots that almost every cartoon uses, like a brainswap plot or a shrink down and travel around inside someone plot. It was kinda boring and a lot of the dialogue was unoriginal and trite. Worst episode since the turtles got back to New York, IMO.

I don't see how it was boring at all, the fight scenes were a highlight. It also had a number of comedic moments like Don/Rockwell, Baxter/Pete, etc.

[Meliwen]

Hype killed the episode. XD
I definitely agree with you there, I know it dampened my initial thoughts about it. Although I don't think it's surprising it got so hyped up, even if we didn't know anything about it till the promos. You've got the only main character who hasn't had their own episode this season, he's turning dark which is not only a popular plot by itself, but it can be easily compared to an amazing one that just finished in the comics, he shares a fighting style and potentially dangerous flaw as the enemy (fighting with anger) and there's history of Raph and Shredder in the franchise, not just becoming Shredder in the comics but in 2k3, one of Raph's fears was himself dressed as the Shredder, but just like then, this doesn't amount to anything beyond a typical Raph got angry episode. I'm biased towards Raph, but it just felt like there could have been potential to expand on him, but there's no ongoing conflict to fuel any character development from this. Which is my main disappointment.

As for the episode itself...

It did feel strange how Raph was suddenly so angry in the beginning of the episode when he's been doing so well in the season so far. Like it was amped up just because Raph needed to get angry this episode.

Pigeon Pete was great. I loved him in this episode and I thought he had a lot of funny moments.

All the fight scenes were great, especially Leo vs. Raph.

But even taking the whole Dark Raph thing as a one episode deal, it was still very anticlimactic the way he was cured. 2k3 had a dark turtles episode, and I kind of preferred how they snapped out of their mind control, however cheesy it was.

And yes, it did feel like Leo had a more positive look on his character at the end of the episode than Raph did, in an episode where he's supposedly the main feature.

Also I really like how Shredder was training Raph. It would be nice if something came out of that yet.

Overall I like the episode, it's one of my favorites so far this season.

[matteso586]

Why didn't anyone mention how Mikey brings up the fact that the shows they watch always parallel with their missions?

When Pete was on the spiral stairway, I thought we're going to finally see where it leads.

[GoldenFlither]

MAN that was bad-ass. The fight scenes were incredible to watch. Even that slap-off between Stockman and Pigeon Pete. :tlol:

[Ninturtle]

I don't see how it was boring at all, the fight scenes were a highlight. It also had a number of comedic moments like Don/Rockwell, Baxter/Pete, etc.

I loved Pete reacting to the lair and pizza crust. This episode was great.

[Eurydemus]

The episode wasn't bad, but it also wasn't great, which was a bit of a letdown. It was disappointing in some ways, especially when you compare it to S3's standouts like "The Battle for New York" or even well done fillers like Muckman, though it wasn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

Overall, I think the Dark Raph arc would've benefited as a two-part season finale cliffhanger that picks up with another two-part conclusion at the start of the new season. One of the big things I miss about 2K3 are the long, multi-episode sub plots (e.g. Turtles in Space, Battle Nexus, etc.). I really wish Nick TMNT would pick up on that cue.

[neatoman]

The Shellraiser is back? When and how did that happen? It was destroyed at the end of season 2. I believe the writers' sense of continuity is slipping...

It is pretty lame that nobody stayed under Shredder's control, I was hoping Slash or Raph would remain mind controled so there could be a couple of episodes dedicated to freeing them. But no, it's another self contained episode, about the only thing we get is knowing how the mind control works. And why didn't Shredder take the opportunity to ask Slash and Rockwell where the Turtle lair is?

As I suspected, Tiger Claw made up for Bebop and Rocksteady's failure in the last episode, delaying Shredder's plans with no episodes at all. So what's the point of last the episode then? Introducing Muckman? A character we probably won't see for a while (if at all), especially when you remember that Mondo, Renet, Savanti, Fugitoid and Mozar are all bound to show up in this season....

[PangolinFeets]

but the IDW books are also digital. I think you can read them on your computer through comixology.com.

I love Comixology. I used to be really against digital books/comics for some reason. I think I was just biased because I liked having physical pages (and for my favorite comics, I get physical issues), but I buy every digital issue to TMNT just so I can read it on the go and so I can get it the second it releases. I love reading comics on the phone app. It's awesome for the gym, or on break at work, or when I have any kind of down time.

[Vicky82]

IGN review

8.4

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/05/03/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-clash-of-the-mutanimals-review

[Ninturtle]

The Shellraiser is back? When and how did that happen? It was destroyed at the end of season 2. I believe the writers' sense of continuity is slipping...

It is pretty lame that nobody stayed under Shredder's control, I was hoping Slash or Raph would remain mind controled so there could be a couple of episodes dedicated to freeing them. But no, it's another self contained episode, about the only thing we get is knowing how the mind control works. And why didn't Shredder take the opportunity to ask Slash and Rockwell where the Turtle lair is?



Donnie said he fixed it in this episode and he said he was working on it in this episode too.

[TigerClaw]

IGN review

8.4

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/05/03/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-clash-of-the-mutanimals-review
Looks like that IGN review, Echo what some have felt about this episode.

[Vicky82]

Looks like that IGN review, Echo what some have felt about this episode.

it was another brain washing episode as we had similar episodes in the past, so that was the main reason he gave it less points.

[aliena]

The reason why TigerClaw was able to take down the Mutanimals, Is cause hes an expert in martial arts, The Mutanimals have no martial arts training, And there fights are more like street brawls.

That's true TigerClaw. I always think of Slash and Leatherhead as being so big and strong that I think they could take anyone down. Tigerclaw is also an assassin. I tend to forget that at times.

[kelligrafie]

Them fight scenes though.

Nearly fell out of my bunkbed with excitement.

[TigerClaw]

That's true TigerClaw. I always think of Slash and Leatherhead as being so big and strong that I think they could take anyone down. Tigerclaw is also an assassin. I tend to forget that at times.
It takes someone whose at his level or higher, To take him down, Even the Turtles can take down TigerClaw at times.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I honestly don't know why you all thought this was going to be an epic or a two-parter episode with the type of series this is. You know that this is not a cartoon that is known for having some of the most deepest and darkest plotlines for a TMNT series. I'm afraid a lot of you got your hopes up too high to think this was going to be anything like the "Dark Leo" arc (especially when IDW is the one thing they don't adapt from). My advice for you is to realize that while this show is great, try to maintain from getting your hopes up. The higher your hopes are, the likely you'll be disappointed. You'll just have to accept this show for what it is, an action-comedy.

The episode at best was decent. CC was right that the fight scenes were great but the idea of Raph turning evil because of the Mind Control Serum was so obvious, that it's not even a shocker.

[aliena]

Do you read the IDW comics? It may not be animated or anything like the show but the writing is great and may be more of what you're looking for. Friend got me into them recently and I have been marathon reading. On #40 now.

I totally second this. I've been getting the books and I'm caught up to #40 as well. The City Fall arc is hands down my favorite part, but I just love the whole thing. Sometimes I mix up what happens to them with the Nick show.

It takes someone whose at his level or higher, To take him down, Even the Turtles can take down TigerClaw at times.

Not to discuss Tigerclaw too much, but he's grown on me since the episode where he first showed up. I'd love to see his back story and possible conclusion to the guy he was after for cutting off his tail. I suppose that might be asking too much for this show to do.

[neatoman]

Donnie said he fixed it in this episode and he said he was working on it in this episode too.

Well, still kind of cheating in terms of continuity, seeing how it could have been easy to show him working on it in a few episodes before this.

[kelligrafie]

I honestly don't know why you all thought this was going to be an epic or a two-parter episode with the type of series this is. You know that this is not a cartoon that is known for having some of the most deepest and darkest plotlines for a TMNT series. I'm afraid a lot of you got your hopes up too high to think this was going to be anything like the "Dark Leo" arc (especially when IDW is the one thing they don't adapt from). My advice for you is to realize that while this show is great, try to maintain from getting your hopes up. The higher your hopes are, the likely you'll be disappointed. You'll just have to accept this show for what it is, an action-comedy.

I agree. There's only so much you can do with twenty minutes.

Although to be fair TMNT does seem to do better than a lot of other shows with cramming stuff into those twenty minutes.

I was watching another action cartoon this weekend which I would say is aimed at a very similar audience and mentally comparing it to TMNT. And I reminded myself of the quality of what we're watching.

Sure we don't always get the character development we would like, there are plot holes, there's too much of this and too little of that...

And we can't blame all of it on time/budget constraints.

But I challenge you to all to watch a few other cartoons this week and see what level they're at compared with TMNT. I mean this weeks episode looked cinematic. It was beautiful.

[VaughnMichael]

I thought this was a really good episode, mostly because we're starting to see other characters a lot more now.
I had a few gasping and ewww moment this time round though.
The scene with Slash cracking Splinter across the face was like :o
But they really did a nice job at the end of the episode and I like that Splinter called Slash his friend.
Seeing Slash so much though really makes me wonder what in the world has happened to Newtralizer.
The worms reminded me of Star Trek and had me squirming and saying ugh every time.
I really loved the fight scenes and the look of the show had vastly improved over time.
I have to say I've not laughed in some time as the show has been pretty serious but Pigeon Pete had me cracking up quite a few times in this one.
I hope when and if they make a Mighty Mutanimals tv show that we will get better toys for the characters.

[Fang Wolf]

This was Great Ep...:tsmile:
Hehee, Shredder is as ferocious as usual.
Ohh, His movement .....
Hehehe, He could beat everyone so so easily.

[aliena]

I also forgot to ask if Shredder wanted just any turtle? We speculated that he'd want Raph for his anger reasons, but I think TigerClaw said to get a turtle. Did he mean someone specific or did it matter? If he didn't mean anyone specific, then Shredder thinks of them all as equally formidable or worthy as fighters.

[Mellie]

The fighting scenes were fantastic in this episode. One of my favorite parts-

http://i58.tinypic.com/v4xahv.jpg

[Vicky82]

I don't think people realize that the mind serum was just for Karai and they were only using Slash, Rockwell and Raph as test subjects to check if there were no problems and side effects.

It does look like Baxter will make the serum stronger because Karai is going to be under mind control in The Deadly Venom and if it's successful Shredder will use on others.

So maybe another turtle (or use Raph again) could be under mind contol, either Dark Leo, Dark Donnie or even Dark Mikey.

So today's episode is just a taste of big things to come.

[kelligrafie]

Poor Leatherhead really took a pounding this episode. Just as well he's got that natural armour plating!

[JH24]

Aside from Raph being freed from the mind control within the same episode and is character being a bit off, it was a well done episode in general IMHO.

Good pacing, some very nice animation and facial expressions and well executed fight scenes. I liked how Leo and Donatello were both able to break Raph's and Rockwell's mind control by either provoking or insulting them. Rockwell using Donnie's bo staff against him was pretty funny.

Leo telling Raph to finish Shredder was also a nice touch. It usually isn't really mentioned in the series but it shows that killing Shredder is something the turtles will DO when given the chance.


Wow, Shredder seems to grow more and more powerful as the series progresses. He was able to take on all the good guys and still come out on top. He was surprised at the end but even then he was able to react to it. Tigerclaw was amazing too.

Raph, Rockwell and Slash turned out be to test subjects. Karai will likely be a lot harder to free from the mind control after Stockman works out the "bugs."


Very nice episode. I liked it.

[Mukouno]

Okay, I just got to watch the episode… How to put it… I just don’t know, I usually love this show sooo much, but today something about it rubbed me the wrong way.

First of all, the Dark Raph stuff. Sooo much potential for some drama, feels, awesome and emotional fights, just wasted… Okay, nobody ever said it was going to be a big thing and I guess it’s our own fault for getting us way too hyped when the only info we had was ‘loosly based on…’ so yeah. And in retrospect, I guess it was to be expected, I mean this show usually resolves a problem within one episode, so far as it’s not a main plot point. So all in all the Dark Raph actually doesn’t bother me as much, it’s a shame they didn’t do more with it, but I can live with that. :tneutral:

You know what my actual main beef with the episode is? Raph’s characterization. Maybe it’s just me, but it felt really off. Suddenly they make a point of his anger issues once again, when we haven’t had that since… I can’t even remember the last episode where this attitude was the main theme. Maybe ‘The Good, the Bad and Casey Jones’? Since then he’s gradually mellowed, especially during season 3 he had himself under control. Okay okay, I know he’ll always have a short temper and will be angered and annoyed very easily, just as Mikey will always be a happy-go-lucky, fun-loving, scatterbrained and sweet silly dork. That’s just who he is. But still, there has been development with Raph’s character which I hope I’m not the only one aware of. But today? Especially in the beginning, he’s shouting at Leo and even worse beats up Mikey for no reason other than calling him a hothead… Which he IS. Someone can’t handle the truth? :trolleye:

And then, how they snapped him out of the mind control. Okay, as I get it the way to cure someone is invoking strong emotions which itself is a nice, basic idea. So what could they do with that considering Raph? Maybe have him hurt one of his brothers and let his feelings of guilt snap him out of it, let Mikey give him a hug like he did in ‘The Invasion’ or have all of them tell him memories they shared, good ones and bad ones… This could have been done so well… And what did we get? Leo insulting and mocking him, thus pressing his buttons and let his anger free him so that the writers can keep harping on about his anger issues and shoving them in our faces.
(And why did Leo even start with that? It’s not like he knew this was going to break the mind control. Just comes across as a somewhat jerkish move on Leo’s part as well…)
Though I’ll give the writers some credit for creativity, can’t remember seeing someone breaking a mind control by making fun of the victim… :lol:

And then there was also Raph’s statement that he wouldn’t be good at following orders when this wasn’t portrayed in ages as well.

So, all in all this felt like season 1 Raph all over again. Really, imo the writers were simply trying too hard.

Don’t get me wrong, all this doesn’t mean I hated the episode. There were some pretty good parts as well, like all the humor made me crack up a few times, Mikey mentioning how these cartoons portray their lifes, the animation was gorgeous and of course the fighting scenes were really awesome! And I did get some feels as well, like Mikey and LH (once again), Mikey wanting to stay at Splinter’s side and of course the Leo/Raph hug. (I’m just a huge sucker for bromance… :tlove:)
And by far my favorite scene was the torture scene when that worm approached Raph. That was some creepy atmosphere there and I got chills all over my body.

Just the whole Raph thing left a bad taste in my mouth and thus made the episode not as enjoyable as it would have been otherwise. :tsad:

[Sahtori]

I was glad to see more 'TigerClaw' though: 'When have I ever failed you ...'
Thought Shredder would say: 'The turtles, man, the turtles ....'

the fights were awesome, though as many, disappointed about how short Raph's Dark was. Doesn't mean it's the ending of something that's coming. Who knows, maybe more Dark Raph or they will do Dark Leo, who knows

[kelligrafie]

I was glad to see more 'TigerClaw' though: 'When have I ever failed you ...'
Thought Shredder would say: 'The turtles, man, the turtles ....'

Half expected Shredder to pull a mile long scroll out of his belt and unfurl it.
"Well there was the time when..."

[Sahtori]

Half expected Shredder to pull a mile long scroll out of his belt and unfurl it.
"Well there was the time when..."

That, that, yes THAT! *laughs*

[shredder orokusaki]

Good episdode and my battle with the turltes and the mutanimals was the best!!And i win again. I beat all of them at the same time!! HAHAAHAHAHAHA!!

[Ashwolf]

the ep was alright overall, liked the fight scenes but disappointed w/ how short the mind control was although i feel like it was a teaser on the mind control and the real dark raph bit is gonna happen l8r on...

1. the worms may have been the "remote" but whos 2 say they didnt leave behind traces of the chemicals

2. theres still the flashback bit about how raph got that plastron mark

but if that was all there is as far as dark raph goes, BIG let down!!! :flaming:

Half expected Shredder to pull a mile long scroll out of his belt and unfurl it.
"Well there was the time when..."

that wouldve been so hilarious 2 see :tlol:

[snake]

Good episdode and my battle with the turltes and the mutanimals was the best!!And i win again. I beat all of them at the same time!! HAHAAHAHAHAHA!!
What ever happened to the Kraang alliance, man?

[Vicky82]

the ep was alright overall, liked the fight scenes but disappointed w/ how short the mind control was although i feel like it was a teaser on the mind control and the real dark raph bit is gonna happen l8r on...

1. the worms may have been the "remote" but whos 2 say they didnt leave behind traces of the chemicals

2. theres still the flashback bit about how raph got that plastron mark

but if that was all there is as far as dark raph goes, BIG let down!!! :flaming:



that wouldve been so hilarious 2 see :tlol:

Good point about the worms being a remote and bit of the mind serum could be still in Raphs brain.

Also Baxter said there could be side effects so maybe Raph will still feel the effects of it in the next episode and thats why Mikey is hanging out with Casey.

[Autbot_Benz]

Good episdode and my battle with the turltes and the mutanimals was the best!!And i win again. I beat all of them at the same time!! HAHAAHAHAHAHA!!

http://i59.tinypic.com/8ze2gx.png you need help man seriously your not a fictional character you moron.

[Papenbrook]

:( I knew this episode was going to be a disappointment. The writers need to start stepping up their game.

[CyberCubed]

The episode itself was fantastic and some of the best fight scenes of the series. The people thinking Dark Raph was going to be some kind of story arc deluded themselves for no reason.

[jenna]

I never had much hope that the Dark Raph thing would be anything significant so I'm not too disappointed. A tad disappointed. Let's go with that.

The episode was quite good. It had great fight sequences, as most people have already pointed out. The Raph-torture scene was awful. What a blood-curdling scream! :cry: The ending felt too rushed.

I'm not optimistic that the writers will give Raphael any development off the back of this. I don't think there will be any lasting effects of the serum, or any lingering trauma. Wasted potential, yes, but an enjoyable episode.

[Powder]

Yooooooooooooooooooooooooo that was way too sick. Mad good. Maaaaad good.

[Tarris Vaal]

Solid episode, and good to see the mutanimals back (I find it really hard to dislike Pigeon Pete). Tigerclaw good as always and nice to see Baxter, though it was odd how Rahzar and Fishface didnt appear (and could easily have done a cameo along with the foot ninjas at the end). But this feels like glorified filler.

I wont lie. I am disappointed with the enormously wasted potential, and the stupidly optimistic part of me hopes that actually it wasn't that easy to break them out of the mind control - I can but dream. Frustrating to let that opportunity slide like that, but what can we do? It is what it is.


Quoted by Mukouno
Raph’s characterization. Maybe it’s just me, but it felt really off.

Yes, I know what you mean. It did feel slightly odd didn't it? I wouldn't even call it season 1 Raph, it just felt like everything he did early on was just to set up the end of the episode. Even the hug at the end felt a bit .... robotic? I dunno, it was just slightly out of character.

I really, really want to say perhaps that is the point..... But I know its just the optimism speaking.


Fight scenes great, worms and the torture scene excellent, humour - generally really good - and I much preferred Rockwell in this episode (I found him a bit grating first time).
Just so much wasted potential!!!

Ah well, I'll be happily speculating optimistically for the next one then

[MutantBear]

I had a feeling it was going to go the Vision Quest way where there is all this hype, but all of it is in one episode. (Although this time it was our own fault for the over-hype.)

[NinjaPug]

The episode itself was fantastic and some of the best fight scenes of the series. The people thinking Dark Raph was going to be some kind of story arc deluded themselves for no reason.

Exactly. People heard the words 'Dark Raph' and went nuts with their theories. I've never seen this board get as worked up about something related to this show before like they did for this. I'm so glad that nonsense is over.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah I'm also glad the mind control for the others like Slash and Rockwell only lasted one episode too. I didn't feel like seeing evil Slash again for a period of time.

[Meliwen]

Another thing I liked about this episode was how Shredder was training Raph. It was essentially Raph's fighting style (although he's learned to show mercy) and I wonder if that means anything? I just think it's a nice parallel they could do things with, and it'd be nice if it meant anything other than to fill time in the episode.

That worm going into his head was brutal though. Poor Raph.

[AT-Man]

Hot dang, first I was all "another mind control episode? blah!" but the end fight was AMAZING!!! I thought Shredder would just disappear but he took them all on and handed their butts to them! Superb!

[Werecat]

The worm creature actually reminds me of an old 1988 movie called Brain Damage. "A boy (Rick Herbst) grows addicted to psychedelic jolts from an eel-like brain-eating monster called Elmer." From Google search. IMDB. They always do a reference to old horror movies and I wonder if they referenced Brain Damage.

Disappointed that the Dark Raph plot only lasted one episode but hey what do you expect from the writers. The writers prefer to extend non turtle plots such as April and Karai. To be honest though, the way they did the mind control is freaky and I love it.

Baxter Stockman might perfect the mind control worm in Deadly Poison. Its probably gonna be a lot freakier.

[tylerdavies]

I really liked this episode, despite having hope for some sort of Dark Raph story arc. Although the worms could have left traces of the chemical as someone else mentioned. Maybe Raph could be taken control of again with a phrase or something. I dunno.

Mikey noting the parallel between their lives and the cartoons was funny. I was thinking of that before he said that so it was a nice treat. I really liked Mikey this episode compared to many others. His intuition scene and wondering who "him" was kind of funny.

I have questions though...Why didn't Shredder have Slash, Rockwell, or Raph tell him where the lair is? Did anyone think Shredder bowing and lowering into the ground with flame surrounding his head really ridiculous? I burst out laughing at how stupid it looked lol.

[Vicky82]

The worm torture with Raph was the most frightning thing i've seen in this show and where the hell did it enter Raph, it didn't go through his mouth, nose or ear. so it must of burrowed into his head. :o

That will certainly give sensitive kids nightmares.

I noticed that Pete and Leatherhead were playing on the pinball machine, that was cute :lol:

[groddofwar]

what if those mind control wyrm creatures have to do something with the creation of wyrm. Maybe someone with wyrms is exposed to mutagen and mutates into wyrm? or, maybe someone mutates with a kraathragon? or someone mutates with regular worms?

[MCLeo28]

The episode itself was fantastic and some of the best fight scenes of the series. The people thinking Dark Raph was going to be some kind of story arc deluded themselves for no reason.

This.

The fight scenes were amazing, especially with Leo vs. Raph and Shredder solo'ing the Turtles and the Mutanimals.

But also, Deadly Venom does mention that Karai will hunt down the the turtles . It'd seem strange to me to include Raph unless he was free from the mind control serum.

[MrTMNT2012]

One thing I'll say about this episode is that it has the BEST fighting choreography out of anything TMNT-related in the past decade!

Been watching the last act like 5 times already....even though the plot is balls.

[Sabacooza]

Okay, I just got to watch the episode… How to put it… I just don’t know, I usually love this show sooo much, but today something about it rubbed me the wrong way.

First of all, the Dark Raph stuff. Sooo much potential for some drama, feels, awesome and emotional fights, just wasted… Okay, nobody ever said it was going to be a big thing and I guess it’s our own fault for getting us way too hyped when the only info we had was ‘loosly based on…’ so yeah. And in retrospect, I guess it was to be expected, I mean this show usually resolves a problem within one episode, so far as it’s not a main plot point. So all in all the Dark Raph actually doesn’t bother me as much, it’s a shame they didn’t do more with it, but I can live with that. :tneutral:

You know what my actual main beef with the episode is? Raph’s characterization. Maybe it’s just me, but it felt really off. Suddenly they make a point of his anger issues once again, when we haven’t had that since… I can’t even remember the last episode where this attitude was the main theme. Maybe ‘The Good, the Bad and Casey Jones’? Since then he’s gradually mellowed, especially during season 3 he had himself under control. Okay okay, I know he’ll always have a short temper and will be angered and annoyed very easily, just as Mikey will always be a happy-go-lucky, fun-loving, scatterbrained and sweet silly dork. That’s just who he is. But still, there has been development with Raph’s character which I hope I’m not the only one aware of. But today? Especially in the beginning, he’s shouting at Leo and even worse beats up Mikey for no reason other than calling him a hothead… Which he IS. Someone can’t handle the truth? :trolleye:

And then, how they snapped him out of the mind control. Okay, as I get it the way to cure someone is invoking strong emotions which itself is a nice, basic idea. So what could they do with that considering Raph? Maybe have him hurt one of his brothers and let his feelings of guilt snap him out of it, let Mikey give him a hug like he did in ‘The Invasion’ or have all of them tell him memories they shared, good ones and bad ones… This could have been done so well… And what did we get? Leo insulting and mocking him, thus pressing his buttons and let his anger free him so that the writers can keep harping on about his anger issues and shoving them in our faces.
(And why did Leo even start with that? It’s not like he knew this was going to break the mind control. Just comes across as a somewhat jerkish move on Leo’s part as well…)
Though I’ll give the writers some credit for creativity, can’t remember seeing someone breaking a mind control by making fun of the victim… :lol:

And then there was also Raph’s statement that he wouldn’t be good at following orders when this wasn’t portrayed in ages as well.

So, all in all this felt like season 1 Raph all over again. Really, imo the writers were simply trying too hard.

Don’t get me wrong, all this doesn’t mean I hated the episode. There were some pretty good parts as well, like all the humor made me crack up a few times, Mikey mentioning how these cartoons portray their lifes, the animation was gorgeous and of course the fighting scenes were really awesome! And I did get some feels as well, like Mikey and LH (once again), Mikey wanting to stay at Splinter’s side and of course the Leo/Raph hug. (I’m just a huge sucker for bromance… :tlove:)
And by far my favorite scene was the torture scene when that worm approached Raph. That was some creepy atmosphere there and I got chills all over my body.

Just the whole Raph thing left a bad taste in my mouth and thus made the episode not as enjoyable as it would have been otherwise. :tsad:Pretty much this exactly. What a wasted opportunity and it took 2 steps back with Raph's character. Him being so angry all of the sudden was out of nowhere. The fight scenes were fantastic but that's about it. Disappointing.

[MCLeo28]

Makes me wonder where Rahzar and Fishface were when Tiger Claw left to get reinforcements.

[Ursalink]

Say whatever you want, but I'm glad "Dark Raph" didn't last more than this episode. What I'm really sick of is Shredder being "unbeatable" in such ridiculous way. I know he's a ninja master and all that, but so is Splinter, and we have seen that Splinter is not so unbeatable. Even alone against the turtles and the Mutanimals, he wiped out the floor with all of them. And he even managed to avoid the falling statue. In the first movie, Leo managed at least to cut part of the Shredder arm, so I would like to see this Shredder receiving a similar hit already.

[MCLeo28]

Say whatever you want, but I'm glad "Dark Raph" didn't last more than this episode. What I'm really sick of is Shredder being "unbeatable" in such ridiculous way. I know he's a ninja master and all that, but so is Splinter, and we have seen that Splinter is not so unbeatable. Even alone against the turtles and the Mutanimals, he wiped out the floor with all of them. And he even managed to avoid the falling statue. In the first movie, Leo managed at least to cut part of the Shredder arm, so I would like to see this Shredder receiving a similar hit already.

Even though the fight scene was amazing, I wholeheartedly agree that Shredder seems unrealistically unbeatable.

At least stay consistent. 2 episodes ago, we had Leo fighting Shredder on equal grounds and in this episode, he literally wiped out the Turtles and a team of mutants. That's crazy.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I hate to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.' Or 'it'll last a few episodes, so be happy after that, all you Raph fans', and so on...and so forth...

And when this BS crap DOES happen (like I predicted), it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.

[Sabacooza]

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I have to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.'

And when it DOES happen like predicted, it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

[THGhost]

Yet another mind control episode. Yay? :roll:

I'm looking forward to next week's episode though. :tcool:

[OrangeNinja1987]

It was an okay episode. The pros definitely outweighed the cons.
Good things:
1. the animation (it keeps getting better and better)
2. The fighting
3. The humor
4. The scene with Raph and the worm (that scream!)

The thing that left a bad taste in my mouth and made me hate the episode for 10 minutes or so afterwards was the stupid Dark Raph!
I know, I know, it was overhyped on the forums. But even for someone who didn't read all the hype online, I still think it would seem very disappointing to see that story potential squandered in 10 minutes.
But the mind control is still being developed, so there could be another dark turtle, who would be harder to turn back. If the mind control isn't improved, dark Karai won't be anything new.
Sigh. I was SO disappointed with this episode afterwards that I even considered if tuning in next week is even worth it. But then I remembered that I love this show and if it falls badly, I'll still watch it to the end. It's the show that got me into TMNT, and now I regret not getting into it years before.
Meh. I guess I can live without Dark Raph. But I still want to see a major Raphael story. Let's just hope the backstory on his shell crack won't be crushed by hype as well. Fingers crossed.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Well, if people want to say 'stop firing shots at the show', then the show should Stop Giving The Ammo to do so...

[MrTMNT2012]

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Agreed with both of you.

I really hope people don't turn a blind eye to all of this and get fooled into thinking this is the same show we were watching in Season 1. At some point our voices have to be heard, if only for the better of the series! We're only at the 3rd Season, there's still time to turn things around...

I mean we went from Avatar: The Last Airbender writers penning this show in Season 1 to freaking Star Wars Rebels writers with this episode...that's QUITE the downgrade! :teek:

[Ravenshell]

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

I hear ya. Lot of wasted potential imo. Then I got an earful from my husband about how networks hate arcs, because they apparently don't want to run shows with arcs; it's easier to randomly grab from the stack rather than worrying about airing order and crap like that... So, here's our lesson: we're never getting anything more than a 2-parter, because the networks are too lazy to bother showing things in order.

[Papenbrook]

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I hate to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.' Or 'it'll last a few episodes, so be happy after that, all you Raph fans', and so on...and so forth...

And when this BS crap DOES happen (like I predicted), it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.


I personally agree with all of this. It seems that the writers don't care about developing characters, let alone getting them involved in the storyline.

[OrangeNinja1987]

Besides Dark Raph not being an arc, I think the most surprising thing of this episode was that no one accidentally kicked Shredder's head or hit the fire while he sat in that stupid lowered bunker thing. :lol:
With his head just sticking out of the top, it looked like the elevator got stuck.

[Ravenshell]

Besides Dark Raph not being an arc, I think the most surprising thing of this episode was that no one accidentally kicked Shredder's head or hit the fire while he sat in that stupid lowered bunker thing. :lol:
With his head just sticking out of the top, it looked like the elevator got stuck.

*L* "I'm'a go down here and hang out in the barbecue pit while y'all fight! k, bye!"

[matteso586]

The worms remind me of an episode of Star Wars: Clone Wars.

[Warhorse]

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Yeah, he's right about the story arcs. Ciro and crew claim they don't want to worry about on going arcs, but what they really mean is on going arcs concerning characters that he doesn't care about. Now, his clear favorites Donnie, Casey, April and Leo have arcs that have spanned seasons, but Mikey and Raph can't even get an arc to span 2 episodes.

I hear ya. Lot of wasted potential imo. Then I got an earful from my husband about how networks hate arcs, because they apparently don't want to run shows with arcs; it's easier to randomly grab from the stack rather than worrying about airing order and crap like that... So, here's our lesson: we're never getting anything more than a 2-parter, because the networks are too lazy to bother showing things in order.
Depends on the network and show. Last show I watched and truly loved was very hard core in the arcs. Netflix's Daredevil. NCIS is mostly episodic, but it too has major arcs going on, and it's one of the top shows on TV.

[Sabacooza]

Yeah, he's right about the story arcs. Ciro and crew claim they don't want to worry about on going arcs, but what they really mean is on going arcs concerning characters that he doesn't care about. Now, his clear favorites Donnie, Casey, April and Leo have arcs that have spanned seasons, but Mikey and Raph can't even get an arc to span 2 episodes
Yep, I pretty much knew this to be true. Pretty disheartening and infuriating.

Agreed with both of you.

I really hope people don't turn a blind eye to all of this and get fooled into thinking this is the same show we were watching in Season 1. At some point our voices have to be heard, if only for the better of the series! We're only at the 3rd Season, there's still time to turn things around...

I mean we went from Avatar: The Last Airbender writers penning this show in Season 1 to freaking Star Wars Rebels writers with this episode...that's QUITE the downgrade! :teek: Sadly, nobody cares enough or is just fine with getting the medicore stuff we're getting. Man, I wish we could go back to the writers we had for season 1. That could make a world of difference. Then maybe we could go back to having more balance for the characters.

[IndigoErth]

while he sat in that stupid lowered bunker thing. :lol:
With his head just sticking out of the top, it looked like the elevator got stuck.
Yeah, when he lowered down into that and was surrounded by fire I was like one of those dogs with the tilted head. "Huh?" :tlol:

Sure... I'm just gonna get down in here and watch the fight with just my head visible and a wall of fire in front of my face, because it makes total sense to me as a complete psycho. lol

Of course, after Slash knocked over the statue and Shredder lived I could see the sole reason for it...

[Sabacooza]

Yeah, when he lowered down into that and was surrounded by fire I was like one of those dogs with the tilted head. "Huh?" :tlol:

Sure... I'm just gonna get down in here and watch the fight with just my head visible and a wall of fire in front of my face, because it makes total sense to me as a complete psycho. lol:lol: Wouldn't his face get burnt because of being so close to the fire? I didn't get that part. "I am Shredder and nothing phases me.":lol:

[Ashwolf]

The worm creature actually reminds me of an old 1988 movie called Brain Damage. "A boy (Rick Herbst) grows addicted to psychedelic jolts from an eel-like brain-eating monster called Elmer." From Google search. IMDB. They always do a reference to old horror movies and I wonder if they referenced Brain Damage.

The worms could've also been a nod toward the goula'ud in stargate

[Skylanders fan]

Great Episode
Yeah it sucks Dark Ralph is onlly one episode
But loved Dr rockwell hitting donnie
Slash and the rest of the mutanimals are back
Great to see a variety of shredders mutants and not just using one or two
Liked how they made mikey face tiger claw :lol:
I felt that the turtes and mutanimals could have taken on the foot and tiger claw in the end
All in All 8/10 :)

[CyberCubed]

People complaining about the shows "quality" should all leave because they don't know what they're talking about. Whining about some stupid dark Raphael thing that you guys conjured up yourselves by random speculation in threads for months.

The content of the episode was fantastic, and since mind-control plots in animation/comics has been done to death for decades I'm glad it didn't last more than an episode.

[yellowmario27]

The only thing I didn't like was the constant use of the phrase "SNAP OUT OF IT"

okay, maybe it was only said 3 times, but still :lol:

Solid episode.

[Sabacooza]

People complaining about the shows "quality" should all leave because they don't know what they're talking about. Whining about some stupid dark Raphael thing that you guys conjured up yourselves by random speculation in threads for months.

The content of the episode was fantastic, and since mind-control plots in animation/comics has been done to death for decades I'm glad it didn't last more than an episode.I think you should leave because you're clearly full of ****. Look how often you whined about the turtles having nostrils and you still do it.

While I'll admit the fighting was great, the story was not.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

People complaining about the shows "quality" should all leave because they don't know what they're talking about. Whining about some stupid dark Raphael thing that you guys conjured up yourselves by random speculation in threads for months.

The content of the episode was fantastic, and since mind-control plots in animation/comics has been done to death for decades I'm glad it didn't last more than an episode.


Cybercubed...considering the past threads you were making about Bebop & Hun (for those who don't know...just take a look back)...you're the LAST PERSON to talk...

The writers are utterly ignorant about how to write for Raph & Mikey. For example, callbacks to the season 2 finale (where Mikey hugged Raph to calm his rage) would have worked out Perfectly...but they didn't do that. Because they're stupid (in MY opinion).

Not giving Mikey or Raph any actual arcs (while Leo, Don, Casey, and even April have a lot more going for them) is not 'dumb'. And potentially wasting something that could have been great is 'not dumb'.

Once again, go back to your posts about Hun, or Bebop, or such Cybercubed...and remember the phrase 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

[CyberCubed]

I think you should leave because you're clearly full of ****. Look how often you talked about the turtles having nostrils and you still do it.

While I'll admit the fighting was great, the story was mediocre.

Complaining about designs is not the same as getting upset about a plotline that was never intended because you guys believed your own speculation from threads for months. Raph being mind controlled wasn't hyped up for months in the show, and the previews of this ep showed Raph and the Mutanimals under shredder's command.

[Sabacooza]

Complaining about designs is not the same as getting upset about a plotline that was never intended because you guys believed your own speculation from threads for months. Raph being mind controlled wasn't hyped up for months in the show, and the previews of this ep showed Raph and the Mutanimals under shredder's command.Okay Mr. hypocrite.:roll:

[newhire13]

I think some of you guys take things way too personally lol. Jeez.

[CyberCubed]

Okay Mr. hypocrite.:roll:

Not liking the design of a character is the same as getting upset over a non-existent plotline that you falsely claim was "hyped up" for months? Where did this whole "dark Raph" thing even come from? Ciro said Raph would turn evil for an episode, and you guys went crazy with that speculation for months and now are getting all up in arms about it.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Not liking the design of a character is the same as getting upset over a non-existent plotline that you falsely claim was "hyped up" for months?

I can't speak for him. I'm speaking for myself.

So me complaining that I want characters like Mikey and Raph to have good, solid arcs, on-going storylines is bad thing. And for them to be treated fairly (which I DEFINITELY think both have not) is a bad thing.

But you talking and making threads about the races of Bebop and Hun is peachy.

:roll:

*Pats you on the back.* If you say so.

[CyberCubed]

But you talking and making threads about the races of Bebop and Hun is peachy.

I was worried Bebop's race would be changed, but since it wasn't I'm fine. As for Hun, I didn't make the thread about Hun that's currently on the front page here. You can see others didn't like his design change either.

And again, I don't see how character designs is the same thing as getting angry over a plotline that was only existence in speculation.

[Jephael]

Boy dontcha just love how this forum brings out the best of us TMNT fans?

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tumblr_mm3wr1Urak1somw7ho4_500.png

[TurtleTitan97]

It was a good episode, though it was a bit disappointing to see Dark Raph didn't last long.

[Sabacooza]

Not liking the design of a character is the same as getting upset over a non-existent plotline that you falsely claim was "hyped up" for months? Where did this whole "dark Raph" thing even come from? Ciro said Raph would turn evil for an episode, and you guys went crazy with that speculation for months and now are getting all up in arms about it.I could go on and on about how you complain about things that aren't design related and believe me, you do a lot of complaining on this forum so don't even go there with me. Besides I'm not talking about a specific plotline I had in my head, I'm mainly referring to Raph getting a little more respect in the show. I don't think I'm asking for the world.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I was worried Bebop's race would be changed, but since it wasn't I'm fine. As for Hun, I didn't make the thread about Hun that's currently on the front page here. You can see others didn't like his design change either.

And again, I don't see how character designs is the same thing as getting angry over a plotline that was only existence in speculation.


You were getting mad if Bebop wasn't black. But did I go up to you and say "you should leave cause you don't know what you're talking about?"

I get mad because I think certain characters needs to be better handled in terms of arcs, development, usage, and so on...and yet I should leave because I want two characters that I enjoy (Mikey & Raph) to be better handled...in which I gave specific reasons as to how they COULD be better handled.

If you really don't know where I'm going with it, Cybercubed...then just drop it and get back to the topic at hand, which is this episode.

[CyberCubed]

I could go on and on about how you complain about things that aren't design related and believe me, you do a lot of complaining on this forum so don't even go there with me. Besides I'm not talking about a specific plotline I had in my head, I'm mainly referring to Raph getting a little more respect in the show. I don't think I'm asking for the world.

So if Raphael remained mind controlled for 5 episodes, would it make any difference? Most likely Raph would remain Shredder's bland clone obeying his every whim, and the outcome would have been the same as this episode with Leo snapping him out of it. It just would have been dragged out over 5 episodes instead of one.

[Sabacooza]

So if Raphael remained mind controlled for 5 episodes, would it make any difference? Most likely Raph would remain Shredder's bland clone obeying his every whim, and the outcome would have been the same as this episode with Leo snapping him out of it. It just would have been dragged out over 5 episodes instead of one.They could've done so much more with this for reasons other people stated. Stop being so close-minded.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

So if Raphael remained mind controlled for 5 episodes, would it make any difference? Most likely Raph would remain Shredder's bland clone obeying his every whim, and the outcome would have been the same as this episode with Leo snapping him out of it. It just would have been dragged out over 5 episodes instead of one.

Well, you could have:

*Raph getting flashes of his family, some of the good times he's had with them, and trying to fight the mind control...showing Raph some of his inner strength

*Show how much his family really need him/depend on him (what it SHOULD BE is that all four depend on each other...as it is now, the family only depends on Don and Leo...and Casey & April...not really on Mikey & Raph. Although, even Mikey helped stopped the invasion, so Mikey has that). Show what Raph means to each Turtle.

*Show how much Mikey misses Raph, needs to play jokes on/goof off with/have fun with.

*Leo reflecting on Raph helping him out when he was rehabbing his body (the Only thing Raph has gotten to do this season)

*Giving Mikey an actual, serious moment where he helps Raph out of it...making Mikey the True Hero of the Episode.

*Raph hurting one of his brothers, and showing in the next couple of episodes that he feels guilty about it, that he doesn't want to be angry anymore, doing everything in his power to be a 'happy go lucky' guy, and ultimately his family realizing that while it's nice that Raph is doing that, the family still needs Raph to at least have PART of that rage.

You can do LOTS, Cybercubed...only those with Little to No Imagination says that there's 'Nothing' you can do with it.

[THGhost]

It was an okay episode. The pros definitely outweighed the cons.
Good things:
1. the animation (it keeps getting better and better)
2. The fighting
3. The humor
4. The scene with Raph and the worm (that scream!)

The thing that left a bad taste in my mouth and made me hate the episode for 10 minutes or so afterwards was the stupid Dark Raph!
I know, I know, it was overhyped on the forums. But even for someone who didn't read all the hype online, I still think it would seem very disappointing to see that story potential squandered in 10 minutes.
But the mind control is still being developed, so there could be another dark turtle, who would be harder to turn back. If the mind control isn't improved, dark Karai won't be anything new.
Sigh. I was SO disappointed with this episode afterwards that I even considered if tuning in next week is even worth it. But then I remembered that I love this show and if it falls badly, I'll still watch it to the end. It's the show that got me into TMNT, and now I regret not getting into it years before.
Meh. I guess I can live without Dark Raph. But I still want to see a major Raphael story. Let's just hope the backstory on his shell crack won't be crushed by hype as well. Fingers crossed.

These forums overhyped the whole "Dark Raph" thing way too much. I'm not familiar with that story arc, but I'm assuming that it has nothing to do with what was depicted in this episode. It was just another scheme of Shredder's to control the Turtles' minds, nothing special.

[Sabacooza]

These forums overhyped the whole "Dark Raph" thing way too much. I'm not familiar with that story arc, but I'm assuming that it has nothing to do with what was depicted in this episode. It was just another scheme of Shredder's to control the Turtles' minds, nothing special.That's about the gist of it.

[CyberCubed]

These forums overhyped the whole "Dark Raph" thing way too much..

It was indeed the forums fault, and they took it out on the episode/writers for no reason.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

It was indeed the forums fault, and they took it out on the episode/writers for no reason.

I gave reasons. You just ignore them.

Dark Raph had a lot of potential. Just like the Raph/Slash rivalry had a lot of potential. Or giving a callback to Mikey calming Raph down in the Season 2 finale, so you can make Mikey the True Hero by bringing Raph back...only to have something that was so useless, so inconsequential, so bland, and didn't do anything for the characters that it might has well just not been in there at all.

Dropping the ball on all of that instead of going for broke I guess = Good Writing these Days. And I guess Not letting Raph or Mikey have any actual arcs or on-going stories (and to just let the others like Don, Leo, April, and even Casey) = Good Writing These Days.

But yeah. That's 'no reason'.

[Meliwen]

It wasn't just this forum that expected something more than the typical done-in-one episode sort of plot. Tumblr was really excited and expecting more from it as well. Any turtle turning 'dark' is a popular plot, especially since there was a well done Dark Leo in the comics to compare it to, so it's not surprising.

[Papenbrook]

CyberCubed, why are you telling Raph fans to leave just because they want the writers to balance screentime/development for the characters? Not everyone has the same opinions as you do.

[MCLeo28]

They could've done so much more with this for reasons other people stated. Stop being so close-minded.

The same could be said for you considering you stated the story was terrible because the "Dark Raph" episode didn't end the way you expected it to.

[drgon78]

Good episode, really liked the part were Mikey noticed that the show is always related to what was going on in there lives.

[Werecat]

... Ciro said Raph would turn evil for an episode...
Where did Ciro say that? I only remember him saying ''loosely based off of City Fall...But with Dark Raph'' its paraphrased but its closer to what the person stated earlier.


The whole mind control worm is freaky and I doubt that episode will be the last one. We still have yet to be shown how Raph got the crack on his shell. They may present it with the superior mind control worm or another way. Who knows.

[Shark_Blade]

Good Raph episode. :tlove: I don't care about Dark Raph for long episodes. We had Dark Leo before, so it's been done, no need to recycle and drag it too much. So how they treat this is nice and to the point. Moving on.

- Mutanimals are cool. I love the chemistry among their teammates.
- The enemies dragging Slash's unconscious body with their car. Short but I love brutal treatment like this on the heroes, shows how much evil the villains are. The more violent, the better.
- Mutanimals coming to the lair. We finally have guests, which is a rarity!! I love how the friends can just pop in anytime.
- Raph experimentation scene. The worm was gross! I wish they show it crawling into Raph eye sockets or into his mouth at least, and him screaming in pain. A bit of horror just for the thrill.
- Pigeon Pete rules in this show and IDW! :tlol: So funny and his girl-fight-ala-slapping with Baxter cracked me up :tlol:
- Cool fight scenes!
- Slash apologizing to Splinter. Somehow this sadden me to see him like that, such a different side to him I've never seen before. Good stuff.
- Raph hugging Leo. Umm..... kinda awkward, more awkward than that time he went bear hug on Mikey (The Croaking episode). But heh boys will be boys. Despite his ego, he's secretly a hugger, huh? I still love ya Raph. :tlove:


The poll states Mondo Gecko but I didn't see him anywhere? Was there a lizard in the lab or something?

[Wildcat]

Mondo Gecko was shown in the preview for next weeks episode.

This episode was ok for me. Really liked the fight scene at the end.

The mind control isn't a big deal to me. Had no idea it was hyped up either. Dark characters are nothing new and they fixed them as typical as you'd expect with the "snap out of it" thing.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Plus it's not even a good Raph episode on its' own...it just reflects poorly on Raph (yet again...just like the episode where he was turned into a plant).

He got himself mind controlled, and he didn't even break out of it himself. Leo had to come in and save the day to snap him out of it. It just reflects poorly on Raph (even Mikey's episode, with the Punk Frogs, had him doing stuff like Save Raph...which helps the character and makes him appear useful and ultimately Worth A Crap).

This, on the other hand, is another edition of Raph needing someone to save him like he's a Damsel in Distress...once again. Even though I Thought he was supposed to be the 'Protector' of the group, but it's definitely not the case during Season 3.

[Cure]

This episode was a club banger. The fight scenes were mad exciting.

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

yes! more dark raph! Leonardo comes to the rescue! go! bromance go!

[darthwahl56]

Actually, I just saw this as a failed attempt on Shredder's part to use mind control. It was like a Beta testing. It could be done again, only with devastating results for the heroes. That is of course if the writers of the show went that way.

Pigeon Pete and Baxter fighting cracked me up. I need a gif of that.

[Ashwolf]

Actually, I just saw this as a failed attempt on Shredder's part to use mind control. It was like a Beta testing. It could be done again, only with devastating results for the heroes. That is of course if the writers of the show went that way.

Exactly, which it also y I said it was a teaser 4 the dark raph arc as a way of possibly throwing ppl off

[neatoman]

Given how this show is structured, it's not really surprising that the anticipated "Dark Raph arc" was more the "Dark Raph about a quarter of an episode". Nickelodeon isn't on the same level as IDW, who could tell this type of story for five issues and give it some aftershocks.

That said, even for a kid's show it's kind of lame to have it be the last five minutes of an episode. At least make it two episodes.Oh wait I forgot, then they would have to cut one of the episodes that introduced a character we probably won't see again, how silly of me...

[Vicky82]

It's such a shame that this episode which had a lot of amazing moments is being overshadowed by people complaining about how long Dark Raph lasted.

I am a tad dissapointed (and I do appologize for overhyping this) that Dark Raph didn't last longer but i'm not taking this too personally like some people here.

The mind control arc is not over yet and I reckon this episode is just foreshadowing it, so it could happen again in the final but on a bigger scale.

It does seems that Shredder is making 2 types of Mind Control, he wants one for Karai (and maybe use it on other mutants) which Baxter is making and other one is being made in the Auman factory, which Hun is dealing with so they can mind control humans.

So it's not over yet and we still got to see how The Deadly Venom turns out yet as it seems Baxter makes the Mind Control Serum stronger for Karai, so this episode was just a testing stage.

[Sabacooza]

Sadly, It ammounted to nothing more than a Raph bashing episode but I'm not surprised.

[GoldMutant]

Just came back from a trip in Pennsylvania and thought I'd miss it, glad I was wrong. Time to share my thoughts as well, it's assessment time:

Clash of the Mutanimals felt disappointing to many due to the hype on the forums about adapting the Dark Leonardo/Cityfall storyline from the IDW comics, but an okay episode to transition to the Shredder story of season 3. That I understand and I agree it should have lasted longer, at least 3 extra episodes like the Karai-Splinter-Shredder story in the near end of Season 2 beginning with The Wrath of Tiger Claw and ending with Vengeance is Mine. There is so much hidden potential in these stories that have yet to be explored, whether it be origins or characters. Though it'll contribute to the Yoshi-Foot Clan conflict, it needs a strong climax or this could be one of the weakest stories of the show. So, for likes and dislikes:

As everyone has mentioned, the fights were fantastic and the funny moment with Baxter Stockman and Pigeon Pete did make me laugh. I also liked Slash's growth as a kind-hearted individual but still also a badass when fighting. Michelangelo breaking the fourth wall, the banter between Donatello and Rockwell were hilarious as well, as were the moments with "Mikeyhead" and Leo and Raph being still as touching. Now, for cons:

The problem to me came from the plotholes when Slash and Rockwell were controlled on why the lair wasn't revealed as well as Raphael suffering again. I counted the mind control time, Raph was controlled for only 7 minutes in total. Even with a shell of a great action sequence at the end of this action packed episode, it still has wasted story potential at this current time (could change in the future, I know).

Speaking of which, I've already mentioned the suffering of Raphael has suffered since the middle to end of season 2 before. Losing his personal rivalries, growing in power like his brothers, and rarely going past the anger trait have damaged the potential he's had. It pains me to say it too, but Raph was completely unlikable and out of character in this episode. This isn't season 1 anymore, the anger trait has rarely been utilized since The Good, the Bad, and Casey Jones and that was early season 2. Why make him angry without a purpose? Although I'd have no problem with Leo saving the day (even if Mikey is also a great choice too), it was a disappointing climax to the mind control. Emotion I can buy as the saving grace, but it was so poorly executed to make Raph "big, bad, and angry."

As for the arguing, I am tired of it, but I agree and disagree. Yes, this should have been the focal point for the season outside the demise of the Kraang, hopefully giving us more character moments for development. (The thing I want at this point.) Even if this is a set up for the controlling of Karai, it makes me wonder what'll transpire next.

Overall, I find it an okay episode, it's on the good range of this season for me thus far, but not by much. Clash of the Mutanimals was fun, but hoping for something excellent in the future. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[AT-Man]

Oh yeah, I also loved how Leo used a trident to fight Raph. Different weaponsssss!!!

[Vicky82]

With the issue that some people think that, Raph anger was forced and he was angry for no reason.

Raphs anger didn't feel forced to me, it felt like he was just frustrated because they hadn't done anything to Shredder in a few weeks so he was becoming impatient, which is why he became so angry because he wants to stop Shredder.

[THGhost]

This episode was a club banger. The fight scenes were mad exciting.

Yeah, those were pretty much the only parts I enjoyed. There weren't really any decent one-liners or jokes this time around which was disappointing.

[Ravenshell]

Raph runs in without a plan.
Leo: Raph, you're being dangerous and impulsive!
same episode, Leo runs in without a plan.
Leo: troll-lol-lol!

And people are going off on Raph's anger issues again, but it's more his issues about being controlled. If not for the show's rating, Leo probably would have flat-out told Raph that he probably liked being Shredder's b**ch. And if Leo's experienced anything, it's Raph's problem with authority.

I think I like this solution more than your standard brotherly-love-conquers-all one, lame though it was for being too easy. Leo struck a nerve there.

I'm still kind of miffed that Dark Raph wasn't a full arc, but given what I've been told now about production number vs airing number and the necessity for self-contained episodes, I can see why they didn't do an arc.

Guys, it's not that the writers can't write a decent arc; it's that they aren't allowed to, because no one wants to give a **** about proper running order. They have to keep the episodes as self-contained as possible.

[Luckyday]

With the issue that some people think that, Raph anger was forced and he was angry for no reason.

Raphs anger didn't feel forced to me, it felt like he was just frustrated because they hadn't done anything to Shredder in a few weeks so he was becoming impatient, which is why he became so angry because he wants to stop Shredder.

But the problem that they center in on Raph's angry issue again. It's a similar and maybe even a worse problem for Mikey since most his episodes are nearly nothing but "You guys don't believe and respect me."

It's nearly three seasons, they don't have any idea of getting past the surface of being the angry guy of the group?

At the very least they didn't make Raph do something stupid like going off his on alone to take on the shredder that lead to him getting capture.:ohwell:

[Vicky82]

But the problem that they center in on Raph's angry issue again. It's a similar and maybe even a worse problem for Mikey since most his episodes are nearly nothing but "You guys don't believe and respect me."

It's nearly three seasons, they don't have any idea of getting past the surface of being the angry guy of the group?

At the very least they didn't make Raph do something stupid like going off his on alone to take on the shredder that lead to him getting capture.:ohwell:

Raph was always going to the angry guy of the group just like his other incarnations (except OT Raph) but does have some control over it.

His anger issue had nothing to do with this episode, his anger didn't get him captured or do any thing stupid. It was just that he was in the wrong place when he tried to stop Slash that got him captured. It could of happened to any of the turtles.

This episode was about Shredder wanting to test the mind control to see if it was succesful before he uses it on Karai but it wasn't because the worms didn't control there emotional side properly because Raph, Slash and Rockwell took the insults too personally and too quicky, which brought them back to normal. So Baxter will go back to his lab to make it stronger so it doesn't happen again.

The mind control is part of the arc and it will keep going till the season final. So I expect that there could be another Dark Turtle (or Raph again) later.

[Bauer536]

Okay, so I watched the episode. Not bad, not great. I prefer Age of Ultron over this, and that at least, had more going on.

I did enjoy it, mostly because of the fight scenes, Baxter and Pete slapping each other, and Raph hugging Leo. Now that was touching.:tlove:

But honestly, I knew it wasn't going to be a long story arc. Was I a little disappointed? Yes, but not only because how short the Dark Raph story was, but because the dialogue is becoming a little more stilted. Not every line sounds natural anymore, and it's driving me up a wall.

Also, for some of you Raph fans: I think you guys are misinterpreting the writers' intentions. I don't think they're bashing Raph. In fact, I think they're just trying to make Raph appealing to young children, because they don't always want him to be the star all the time. I understand what you want in this Raph, but you might just have to wait for a few episodes for something that really develops him. Or, if that goes nowhere, give a few years, and there will be something to satisfy you.

[Luckyday]

His anger issue had nothing to do with this episode, his anger didn't get him captured or do any thing stupid. It was just that he was in the wrong place when he tried to stop Slash that got him captured. It could of happened to any of the turtles.



I know. I said at least they didn't make Raph do something stupid.

[Vicky82]

I know. I said at least they didn't make Raph do something stupid.

Yeah I know but I was talking about what you said here.

But the problem that they center in on Raph's angry issue again.

As I said Raph did not have an anger issue in this episode, yes he does have angry moments but he is supposed to be the angry turtle.

[CowabungaMikey]

Okay filler episode, glad to see the Mutanimals back. Also, no Casey (good) and no April (:( )

[Vicky82]

Okay filler episode, glad to see the Mutanimals back. Also, no Casey (good) and no April (:( )

It's not a filler episode, it's part of the mind control arc, which started in Casey Jones vs The Underground.

[Luckyday]

Yeah I know but I was talking about what you said here.



As I said Raph did not have an anger issue in this episode, yes he does have angry moments but he is supposed to be the angry turtle.

But wasn't just a moment. It was a issue that was said outright by Leo, join in by Mikey, as a reason why they can't go after Shredder.

What's more that this episode needed Raph outburst or else Leo wouldn't have able to figure out of how to break the mind control.

It's not as bad as a character do something stupid for sake of the plot but makes the actions of the character feels force and executed in a clumsy manner.

It would be like Raph suddenly kiss April. Why would Raph kiss April? Who cares, he has to kiss April or else Casey won't get mad and we won't have a conflict for today episode.

[CowabungaMikey]

It's not a filler episode, it's part of the mind control arc, which started in Casey Jones vs The Underground.

Well nothing really big happened to the main storyline

[Vicky82]

Well nothing really big happened to the main storyline

Did you even watch the episode. It was the main storyline.

Shredder was testing out the mind control serum but it turned out to be weak, so Stockman has to figure out to make it more powerful as it will be used in The Deadly Venom because Karai will be brainwashed in that episode.

Casey vs The Underworld - The mind control arc starts in this episode
The Noxious Avenger - Bebop and Rocksteady are collecting ingrediants for the Mind Serum
Clash of The Mutanimals - Shredder tests the mind control on Slash, Rockwell and Raph but it was too weak.
Enter Mondo Gecko - Don't know yet
The Deadly Venom - I assume the Serum is successful because it is going to be used on Karai.

[CowabungaMikey]

Did you even watch the episode. It was the main storyline.

Shredder was testing out the mind control serum but it turned out to be weak, so Stockman has to figure out to make it more powerful as it will be used in The Deadly Venom because Karai will be brainwashed in that

So we're not 1 step further, we only know the serum is weak now.

[Vicky82]

So we're not 1 step further, we only know the serum is weak now.

Yeah at the moment but it will change because it will be used on Karai in the episode The Deadly Venom.

[cryan]

I liked the Star Trek 2 Wrath of Kahn thing with the mind control worms. Also resistance is futile was funny too.

[Sabacooza]

Also, for some of you Raph fans: I think you guys are misinterpreting the writers' intentions. I don't think they're bashing Raph. In fact, I think they're just trying to make Raph appealing to young children, because they don't always want him to be the star all the time.I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all. Based on what they put out, Raph is clearly not their favorite character to work with which is fine but since they're supposed to be professional writers, they should never let on that he's not their favorite. I don't know why they can't strike a happy medium because as it stands, the writers are very one sided. Does anyone at all understand what I'm saying?

Raph is very rarely the star of this show and since he doesn't really have time to shine, how does that even make him appealing to kids? You would think if they want to make him more appealing, they would have him do more and see him more so that kids could latch onto him.

I understand what you want in this Raph, but you might just have to wait for a few episodes for something that really develops him.We really shouldn't have to wait and wait and wait when they have no problem developing Donnie, Leo and April in just about every episode.

I'm tired of fighting. I really am. I just wish someone could see my side to this.

[victory_angel]

I'm actually not surprised by this turn of events as these episodes do follow a cerebus roller coaster. So this is likely more one of the middle episodes that occasionally through you for a loop and offer one thing and deliver the opposite.

Kind of like expecting a meal and coming away with popcorn.

[Vicky82]

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all. Based on what they put out, Raph is clearly not their favorite character to work with which is fine but since they're supposed to be professional writers, they should never let on that he's not their favorite. Does anyone at all understand what I'm saying?

Raph is very rarely the star of this show and since he doesn't really have time to shine, how does that even make him appealing to kids? You would think if they want to make him more appealing, they would have him do more so that kids could latch onto him.

We really shouldn't have to wait and wait and wait when they have no problem developing Donnie, Leo and April in just about every episode.

I'm tired of fighting. I really am. I just wish someone could see my side to this.

It's something you have to deal with it i'm afraid, everyone has different views.

It's the same with me with Mikey and his ADD/ADHD, because I don't agree with people saying he's dumb. I just have to deal with it.

[Sabacooza]

It's something you have to deal with it i'm afraid, everyone has different views.

It's the same with me with Mikey and his ADD/ADHD, because I don't agree with people saying he's dumb. I just have to deal with it.I guess so.:( I just wish the writers would shape up because I'd really like to love this show again.

[Werecat]

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all. Based on what they put out, Raph is clearly not their favorite character to work with which is fine but since they're supposed to be professional writers, they should never let on that he's not their favorite...

Raph is very rarely the star of this show...

We really shouldn't have to wait and wait and wait when they have no problem developing Donnie, Leo and April in just about every episode.

I'm tired of fighting. I really am. I just wish someone could see my side to this.
I understand. It does seem like Raph is the writer's most disliked character. It shows through their lack of respect for his power and preventing him from progressing and becoming a strong character capable of anything without his brothers. Every Raph episode it seems like Raph always needs someone to save him. While other turtle episodes are treated with respect and care by giving them the opportunity to show how useful they are and how independent they can be, Raph is not given the same treatment.

I miss the ol' berserker Raph. The Raph that had to deal with something evil within himself, it wasn't just anger it was something worse. How can a writer strictly base a character off of one emotional state...It makes no sense to me how they could exclude the possibility of a complex character. Raph is not just some teenager with anger issues.

[Shiro Kame]

Wow...I'm disappointed that they didn't exploit a mind-controlled Raph. Seriously, they should have taken pointers from IDW's City Fall arc.

[Luckyday]

I'm actually not surprised by this turn of events as these episodes do follow a cerebus roller coaster. So this is likely more one of the middle episodes that occasionally through you for a loop and offer one thing and deliver the opposite.

Kind of like expecting a meal and coming away with popcorn.

Even though that Dark Raph arc was never really mention by the producers but it was just one of many things that could have been like Rahzar turning rogue, Slash being a villain, Donnie taken a leadership position that last longer then five minutes, and many many other lost opportunities.

At the very least, Bebop and Rocksteady are not just another 1 and 2 henchman, which means someone over there on that team has some imagination in "lets make these guys constantly trying to backstab Shredder".

[MCLeo28]

I don't understand how one could say Raphael didn't get sufficient development in this week's episode.

There definitely was tension built up for both Raphael and Leonardo (both evident during "the Invasion" episode) in regards to Shredder and Ciro evidently had both of them get what they wanted, a serious clash against Shredder before being the last ones to go down. Leonardo was not held in higher regard than Raphael was in the battle against Shredder even though Ciro clearly has given Leonardo more screen-time against Shredder in the past.

I think Raphael did receive sufficient development in this episode and definitely foreshadows that both Leo and Raph will be the ones to deliver the final blow against the Shredder.

[Ninjinister]

Brilliant episode. Everything was phenomenal.

I want to know more about these worms....

[Mona_Lisa]

So, Ramboraph is right, Raph can't get have a solo episode without his "anger" being the trigger that get's him in trouble. And then super Leo comes in and saves the day. Yeah, I think I'm done with the show.

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

So the dark Raph situation just lasted 1 episode? :/

It was a decent episode... I was just way too hyped from the rumors. I don't even know why that guy leaked "dark Raph" when it was such a minor thing. :ohwell:

Mondo Gecko looks fun.

What an empty unfulfilling episode. Raph gets crapped on yet again and surprise, surprise Leo saves big Ol' mean Raph from himself. Yep the writers hate Raph. That's pretty obvious. I don't think I can watch this garbage anymore.

I guess I enjoyed this episode, but man am I disappointed... On another thread someone was making fun of Raph fans saying they "were acting like they were going through some mental trauma" but in a way I am!!!!
So much lost potential... Its just wrong. And why would someone mention or leak a "Dark Raph" plot when it was a one ep. thing??? Dark Raph could have been awesome...
And supper Leo.... Grrrrrr.... Why Leo? They just make Raph seem so useless and pathetic. :tsad:
The writers hate Raph.... I need to read some good fanfics to cheer myself up, Turtle turncoat anyone?

Besides, if you were really going to leave because of Raph, you'd have been gone by now, as his situation hasn't improved for the longest.
I'm not going to quit watching, but I have quit paying to watch... Use to buy EVERY ep. on amazon, now? Youtube is a wounderful thing.

[Sabacooza]

The writers hate RaphYep, they sure do. There's no doubt about it. They have no problem making it known they don't care for the character. Pretty upsetting.

[Ninturtle]

Yep, they sure do. There's no doubt about it. They have no problem making it known they don't care for the character. Pretty upsetting.

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.

[newhire13]

Edited.Edited.

[newhire13]

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.

Yup, truth!

[Sabacooza]

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.Oh, come on now. It's pretty obvious.

[OrangeNinja1987]

I'm still kind of miffed that Dark Raph wasn't a full arc, but given what I've been told now about production number vs airing number and the necessity for self-contained episodes, I can see why they didn't do an arc.

Guys, it's not that the writers can't write a decent arc; it's that they aren't allowed to, because no one wants to give a **** about proper running order. They have to keep the episodes as self-contained as possible.

I don't get this. They don't want to care about proper running order so they make self-contained episodes, yet there is enough of an overall storyline that showing most of the episodes out of order would completely ruin the plot.
I don't think the writers hate Raphael (who knows, he just may be the hardest turtle to write for. I would think so.) but I don't think the running order is what is exactly the problem.
This show is aimed at children. So if Raphael isn't the most popular turtle to them or they don't find his own episodes the best, their judgment beats out the fraction of the viewership of people over 12.

[MCLeo28]

Oh, come on now. It's pretty obvious.

They literally foreshadowed Raphael playing a huge role in dealing the final blow to Shredder twice , not once, but twice.

He's certainly not getting bad treatment even though I will admit he's had a lack of episodes centered around him, but when they do focus on Raph, they do a helluva good job showing how amazing Raph is.

[Bauer536]

Truth. You're taking it kinda personal.

Sabacooza, you are taking this personally. We get it. You think the writers are bashing Raph. They're not. They just use him as a minor priority. I bet they love Raph, but they also want the other characters to shine. If you think about it, Raph and Mikey are good second bananas. Episodes where they're not the central focus gets them the best attention even if the story reflects on Leo or Don. I have no problem with this Raph. I still think he's a badass.

The truth is, you want him to be the main focus. You don't like Leo as much, and you can care less about Donnie, and you might want Mikey to tone it down. Be honest. If Raph got the main focus, people like me might complain there's a lack of Leo and Don. Maybe it's because this show focuses on my two favorites, and I enjoy them more. However, I'm glad to see at least Mikey and Raph having some great moments. Look at the show Firefly. Malcom Reynolds is always the center of the storylines, but Jayne Cobb is there to be on the side to be a likeable brawn who loves guns and says "Goramit." There weren't many episodes focused on him, but that's also due to the show being cancelled early.:trazz: I sometimes see Raph like that on this show.

I guess the show could use some better writers this time around, but you act like this is the end of the world. There are more important things to worry about. Plus, the best Raph episodes I've seen were in Season 2: "Slash and Destroy" and "The Good, the Bad, and Casey Jones". For his character, those were some strong and enjoyable episodes. Raph during the Vision Quest was cool, and he got some focus.

The problem is, you let your expectations get the best of you. Based on the atmosphere of this series, I knew they weren't going to do a whole arc on Dark Raph. And because it was short, it doesn't mean that the writers hate him.

There were times before this show where I thought no one liked or appreciated Leo. It turns out, I was wrong. Fans do appreciate Raph, but not all of them do. You should just be happy that you're standing by your favorite character. :tcool:

[senpai]

Did you guys catch all of that Dark Raph arc? Amazing or what? :)

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

they do a helluva good job showing how amazing Raph is.


How?

*He gets turned into a plant.
*The whole reason the 'Slash & Destroy' episode took place was because of his 'stupidity and incompetence' (HE was the one who got Spike mutated, and it was his words that caused Slash to be evil/dark/hurt his brothers..so it was just Raph cleaning up his own Stupid Mistakes). It wasn't That Heroic...
*He got Mikey hurt against Snakeweed because he thought he'd be a good Leader and Failed, Miserably, at it...
*Mikey had to be the one who saved his Shell during the Punk Frogs episode.
*The reason Raph & Casey had to chase that one Foot in the 'Casey Jones' episode was because the both of them were dumb enough to let it follow them back to the lair.

(That's just the tip of the iceberg, because I can give more examples).

He's never Protected anyone yet during this whole run of Season 3.

He's just been useless...even though he's supposed to be the Protector. How is that Amazing?

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

And... did leo just said "im not crazy abt slash"?

Maybe its just me but i think they made it on purpose...



Btw what does break free mean?

[jenna]

How?

*He gets turned into a plant.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

It seems to me that the Within the Woods episode was very damaging to the show. I wonder how many other minor complaints we would look past were it not for the sheer stupidity of the plant thing.

I love the show and I love this Raph, but by having Raph turn into a flower with no acknowledgement of its implausibility and no lasting psychological impact, the writers really dropped the ball and have left Raph fans feeling that they somehow owe Raph a better plot arc to compensate for this.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

I've had problems with this Raph in the past (and have said it on this board). That's why I brought up that even episodes like 'Slash & Destroy' showed that it was just Raph correcting mistakes that he/himself made from his stupidity and incompetence (same with the Casey Jones episode).

I just didn't complain As Much until Season 3. It's not just 'the plant thing'. It's Season 3 has been Extremely Lackluster by a Mile, especially for Raphael fans.

Raph in this show just seems incompetent, useless, not badass, and Not much of a Protector. Who has he protected in Season 3 so far? Who? Season 3 just made it even more noticeable to folks like myself, that's why...

Considering all that I've said, it's funny that the way Raph is 'saved' in the newest episode is pretty much Leo making fun of him. Again, by making fun of him...funny, indeed.

[Sabacooza]

I've had problems with this Raph in the past (and have said it on this board). That's why I brought up that even episodes like 'Slash & Destroy' showed that it was just Raph correcting mistakes that he/himself made from his stupidity and incompetence (same with the Casey Jones episode).

I just didn't complain As Much until Season 3. It's not just 'the plant thing'. It's Season 3 has been Extremely Lackluster by a Mile, especially for Raphael fans.

Raph in this show just seems incompetent, useless, not badass, and Not much of a Protector. Who has he protected in Season 3 so far? Who? Season 3 just made it even more noticeable to folks like myself, that's why...

Considering all that I've said, it's funny that the way Raph is 'saved' in the newest episode is pretty much Leo making fun of him. Again, by making fun of him...funny, indeed.I know that's pretty upsetting, right?
Considering Raph stayed by Leo's side the entire time when he was recovering in the tub and then tried to lift Leo's spirits, getting him back on his feet. When Raph needs him, what does Leo do? He makes fun of and insults him to free him. Yeah, that's top notch story telling right there. :roll: If that isn't proof that the writers hate Raph then I don't know what is.

[Eiko]

I found this episode quite enjoyable. I think some of u guys need to relax, and enjoy the show for what it is and stop taking it so seriously.

[DarkLightDragon]

Because people aren't allowed to express disappointment now apparently.

[JH24]

And... did leo just said "im not crazy abt slash"?

Maybe its just me but i think they made it on purpose...



Btw what does break free mean?


Yeah, I noticed that too. In season 2, Slash brutally attacked Leo and his brothers out of jealousy. They were all beaten and injured, and they could have been killed.

Leo accepts that Raph is friends with Slash but is still a bit wary of him. Although Leo's opinion about Slash probably has improved after this episode.


"Break free" literally means to escape someone's hold/to free himself or someone from something/to force someone out of something. (In this case mind control)

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

Yeah, I noticed that too. In season 2, Slash brutally attacked Leo and his brothers out of jealousy. They were all beaten and injured, and they could have been killed.

Leo accepts that Raph is friends with Slash but is still a bit wary of him. Although Leo's opinion about Slash probably has improved after this episode.


"Break free" literally means to escape someone's hold/to free himself or someone from something/to force someone out of something. (In this case mind control)

Lol no i didnt mesn that slash i mean slash slash.....

[senpai]

I didn't like it when Raphael was turned into a flower either. That was so weird.

Though I wish Raph was more badass in this series, I will say that it makes sense that he needs saving a lot. The turtles are still young and Raph is typically the first to dive straight into a battle. It actually makes sense he'd be the first to get into a bind and need someone's help because of that. So I don't see it as a fault in his character. It's just something that can later be developed. I will say, however, that Raph will need some serious development soon. After the last episode, I'd like to see Raph training much harder than usual to make up for being controlled by Shredder. This can lead him on the path of supreme badassery :D

[CyberCubed]

Is this the first time Slash appeared that Raphael didn't call him, "Spike" at all? I think Raph finally dropped that name and call him by his true name now

[Jephael]

Is this the first time Slash appeared that Raphael didn't call him, "Spike" at all? I think Raph finally dropped that name and call him by his true name now

Actually, I don't think Raph has referred to him as Spike at all this season. I'd have to go back and watch the 2-parter where the Mutanimals are introduced as a group.

[victory_angel]

I also agree that Raph being turned into a normal turtle again would have made more sense then a plant.

However living creatures do carry DNA that is identical to plant matter. Such as humans having half the DNA of rice. So if the episode had explained that better, having Raph being turned into a lump of plant matter would have made more sense.

[Meliwen]

I also agree that Raph being turned into a normal turtle again would have made more sense then a plant.

However living creatures do carry DNA that is identical to plant matter. Such as humans having half the DNA of rice. So if the episode had explained that better, having Raph being turned into a lump of plant matter would have made more sense.
What bothered me more about Raph turning into a plant wasn't necessarily how weird it was, but how it was treated as a footnote. One would think that being near completely demutated would be somewhat important for any mutant, or at least more worthy of something than a lets-fix-it-offscreen sort of thing. Mutagen and mutations are normally considered important things, but here it was brushed aside.

As for this episode itself, someone mentioned elsewhere that this was a Leo episode with Raph as the plot device, which other people here have touched upon too. Raph was undoubtedly the focus of the episode, he got a lot of screen time, but it didn't seem to serve his character as much as it did Leo's.

They both learned the same lesson in the end, which was that anger and impulsiveness can be a good thing from time to time, but it seemed like that lesson was meant more for Leo. Leo was the one that had the main issue with it in the beginning, he showed that he learned from it when they went to go get Raph, and he was the one who apologized in the end to Raph, again showing what he learned. Raph basically got a confirmation for his actions in the end, and that was it. Not to mention, that while the fighting was amazing for all characters, Leo was the one who ended up saving the day.

I'm not saying no one else can learn a lesson in an episode that's not necessarily dedicated to them, but Raph really didn't gain anything from this episode, not just as something that he'll take with him in future episodes, but even as a lesson to be contained in this one episode alone. That was really my main gripe with the episode, especially considering this is Raph's first episode this season (even though he did have some good moments earlier on, in particular looking after Leo), but other than that I thought it was great.

[Karai Samurai]

Finally got around to watching this episode, and it was pretty solid. Loved the bit about Mikey realizing that their cartoons mirror their lives.

And to everyone frustrated that the Dark Raph arc didn't last longer...look at the Karai mutation arc. Hell, look at Timothy. This show doesn't do too great when it comes to multi ep narratives. I liked the one ep dark Raph. Those worms were nasty, though.

[victory_angel]

What bothered me more about Raph turning into a plant wasn't necessarily how weird it was, but how it was treated as a footnote. One would think that being near completely demutated would be somewhat important for any mutant, or at least more worthy of something than a lets-fix-it-offscreen sort of thing. Mutagen and mutations are normally considered important things, but here it was brushed aside.

As for this episode itself, someone mentioned elsewhere that this was a Leo episode with Raph as the plot device, which other people here have touched upon too. Raph was undoubtedly the focus of the episode, he got a lot of screen time, but it didn't seem to serve his character as much as it did Leo's.

They both learned the same lesson in the end, which was that anger and impulsiveness can be a good thing from time to time, but it seemed like that lesson was meant more for Leo. Leo was the one that had the main issue with it in the beginning, he showed that he learned from it when they went to go get Raph, and he was the one who apologized in the end to Raph, again showing what he learned. Raph basically got a confirmation for his actions in the end, and that was it. Not to mention, that while the fighting was amazing for all characters, Leo was the one who ended up saving the day.

I'm not saying no one else can learn a lesson in an episode that's not necessarily dedicated to them, but Raph really didn't gain anything from this episode, not just as something that he'll take with him in future episodes, but even as a lesson to be contained in this one episode alone. That was really my main gripe with the episode, especially considering this is Raph's first episode this season (even though he did have some good moments earlier on, in particular looking after Leo), but other than that I thought it was great.

And also that moment where Donnie comments that they don't have a plan. And Leo essentially gives a Raph-like response of "Screw the plan, that's our brother in there."

Proving that Leo and Raph aren't that much different from each other. But they still need each other to balance themselves out.

Normally Leo is the calmer of the two of them, however he has to look after three brothers as well as himself. And he wants to get through the mission with all of them intact. And that sometimes give him a hot headed temper, but normally it's Raph who is the hot head of the group.

When Raph isn't present such as during Turtle Temper and this one, Leo does seem to unconsciously slip into an impulsive and hotheaded frame of mind.

And vice vr. where Leo isn't present (parts of the North Hampton arc), Raph goes into a calmer much more collected frame of mind.

[Mona_Lisa]

These forums overhyped the whole "Dark Raph" thing way too much. I'm not familiar with that story arc, but I'm assuming that it has nothing to do with what was depicted in this episode. It was just another scheme of Shredder's to control the Turtles' minds, nothing special.

It was indeed the forums fault, and they took it out on the episode/writers for no reason.

I'm a little less angry now, But the one big gripe I still have is why leak Dark Raph? This was such a little insignificant filler thing... Why mention it at all?

[Ashwolf]

I don't think that few min was the real deal, just a teaser when it's actually gonna happen later on but at this point, not getting my hopes up

[Chaotix12345]

I'm a little less angry now, But the one big gripe I still have is why leak Dark Raph? This was such a little insignificant filler thing... Why mention it at all?

Simple. PangolinFeets asked Brandon Auman about IDW influences and he said there'd be a story "loooooosely" based on City Fall with Dark Raph. He was asked a question and gave an answer with a little tease. He probably didn't intend it to blow the roof off this place with hype. Just wanted to give a fan with a question a little bit of exclusive info.

[JH24]

Lol no i didnt mesn that slash i mean slash slash.....

I know what you're getting at. And...no. It wasn't meant that way.

[Sabacooza]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

It seems to me that the Within the Woods episode was very damaging to the show. I wonder how many other minor complaints we would look past were it not for the sheer stupidity of the plant thing.I think you're right to a point.That's where a big part of the anger towards this series started, for me anyway. After that episode, I began to take notice of how much he was being mistreated. Looking back at season 2 I could probably find other examples of him being handled poorly but yeah, the whole flower thing was pretty damaging.

[Mona_Lisa]

You know what? I think you're right.That's where all the anger towards this series started, for me anyway. After that episode, I began to take notice of how much he was being mistreated.

Me too... That was when tings went sour for me.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

So I don't see it as a fault in his character. It's just something that can later be developed. I will say, however, that Raph will need some serious development soon. After the last episode, I'd like to see Raph training much harder than usual to make up for being controlled by Shredder. This can lead him on the path of supreme badassery :D

But they're not going to do that. I'm 100% certain on that, just like I was 100% certain about this 'Dark Raph' stuff. Just look back on my comments. I even said "it'd be half of one episode, and Leo would be the big hero at the end". And I was proven right. So yes, some of this has been me gloating about being proven right. And hey, I WISH I was proven wrong, but I wasn't.

[CyberCubed]

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

[Papenbrook]

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.


How is this fanbase whining? We just want better-written episodes. Is that too much to ask?

[CyberCubed]

How is this fanbase whining? We just want better-written episodes. Is that too much to ask?

This was a very well written episode. All the whining has to do with people deluding themselves into thinking some sort of "Dark Raph" story arc was going to happen for some reason.

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.

[Papenbrook]

This was a very well written episode. All the whining has to do with people deluding themselves into thinking some sort of "Dark Raph" story arc was going to happen for some reason.

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.


To you, it might have been a good episode, but for some people, myself included, this episode was terribly written. I'm not deluding myself, CyberCubed. I just have a different viewpoint.

[Jester]

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.
The irony is strong with this one.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.

No, I'd just be complaining about the writing, character development, and zero arcs for characters like Raphael. Or stories that were dropped that could have been potentially good, like an on-going feud with Slash among other ones.

I think those are more worthy complaints than stuff like 'OMG, Bebop isn't Black! Wah!' Or 'Hun doesn't look exactly the same as the 2003 show! Oh, Snap, call the Paramedics because Cybercubed is having both a heart attack and a Seizure'.

You're not one to talk, bud.

(At least with, say, the 2014 film and the whole 'not asian Shredder' when all of that was doing around...a big part of it was that I'm not a fan of William Fichtner as an actor. Hell, if it was someone like James Woods or Powers Boothe, I would've been fine).

[Warhorse]

Plus it's not even a good Raph episode on its' own...it just reflects poorly on Raph (yet again...just like the episode where he was turned into a plant).

He got himself mind controlled, and he didn't even break out of it himself. Leo had to come in and save the day to snap him out of it. It just reflects poorly on Raph (even Mikey's episode, with the Punk Frogs, had him doing stuff like Save Raph...which helps the character and makes him appear useful and ultimately Worth A Crap).

This, on the other hand, is another edition of Raph needing someone to save him like he's a Damsel in Distress...once again. Even though I Thought he was supposed to be the 'Protector' of the group, but it's definitely not the case during Season 3.
Actually, this episode felt more like a Leo episode than a Raph one.

I guess I enjoyed this episode, but man am I disappointed... On another thread someone was making fun of Raph fans saying they "were acting like they were going through some mental trauma" but in a way I am!!!!
So much lost potential... Its just wrong. And why would someone mention or leak a "Dark Raph" plot when it was a one ep. thing??? Dark Raph could have been awesome...
And supper Leo.... Grrrrrr.... Why Leo? They just make Raph seem so useless and pathetic. :tsad:
The writers hate Raph.... I need to read some good fanfics to cheer myself up, Turtle turncoat anyone?


I'm not going to quit watching, but I have quit paying to watch... Use to buy EVERY ep. on amazon, now? Youtube is a wounderful thing.

I stopped losing interest about the beaver episode. I caught some later episodes on Nick, but like you, I stopped buying from Amazon with the last episode of season 2. And I'm getting the sentiment that the producers/writers in charge don't really know how to write a decent Raph. Mikey would be a close second. Shame we can't get a series that can focus on all 4. We have writers capable of showcasing and developing 6 or more characters in the Marvel movies, where each can shine and show their importance, in a mere 2 hour movie, but the TMNT fans can't get equal focus and respect for the 4 main characters, in a TV show. Well, maybe next incarnation will be more to our liking.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

It seems to me that the Within the Woods episode was very damaging to the show. I wonder how many other minor complaints we would look past were it not for the sheer stupidity of the plant thing.

I love the show and I love this Raph, but by having Raph turn into a flower with no acknowledgement of its implausibility and no lasting psychological impact, the writers really dropped the ball and have left Raph fans feeling that they somehow owe Raph a better plot arc to compensate for this.
Yeah, you may be onto something. I loved Raph just fine for season 1 and most of season 2, it's season 3 that has dropped the ball big time for me. The flower Raph in particular was so stupid. And even with Raph set aside, I usually can find something that I still like about the show, but season 3 has been just so awful, with everyone being OOC, the plots uninteresting, the jokes not funny. The lack of Karai I think has really hurt it, I found her to be more interesting than April. The overall show has gotten dumbed down (season 1 was actually witty and sharp, for a kids cartoon) I mean, when watching A Foot Too Big, with family, usually the family loved watching the TMNT, but that one episode had so many go "WTF?"

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

I know what you're getting at. And...no. It wasn't meant that way.

that's why I said maybe its jut me... its really seem to me that they r using it as a pun

[ImmaAxolotl]

Actually, this episode felt more like a Leo episode than a Raph one.

Now that you mention it, it does. Gosh dang it, Nick! :tgrumble:

[Warhorse]

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!