Let's throw in a fifth turtle... and make her a salamader! :)

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

A fifth turtle... I know this phrase sends shivers down most TMNT fan's spines, and with good reason. We actually DID have a fifth turtle once, in the form of Venus De Milo, and she was one of the worst things to ever happen to the franchise! From the way she was introduced, beating all the boys at once before taking down the Shredder with a ninja mind trick- Venus is one part of the franchise that is NOT remembered fondly!

But I still agree with the motivation behind her introduction. A female character who is like the turtles, but doesn't feel like a knock off of the four brothers or ruin their brotherly dynamic. Yes, April is the 'cool human friend', but I see no problem giving the girls a strong female mutant character who's out there kicking butt with the boys.

And again, I bring up Mona Lisa.

Yes, I know she was a one-shot character who was originally an attempt to make a girl turtle, before Eastman and laird made them change it. But she's made quite an impression on the fandom (as Deviantart can attest to) And she has a lot of Potential that has never been explored. And I think she would make a good (metaphorical, not literal) fifth turtle.

Think about it... it's not as bad as it sounds. She's different enough from the guys that she doesn't feel like a copy- she's not a turtle, but a salamander. She has a tail, which could make for a completely different fighting style (grabbing and throwing around objects and opponents, using it to climb). And as for having a fifth anthro running around with the turtles all the time, Ninjara did it in Archie, and people didn't seem to mind it there!

Think about it... a virtually blank slate of a character, with a very good design, that could be molded any way the writers see fit! Don't introduce her as a love interest, have her meet the turtles and connect to them just on the fact of being different, and not fitting in. Develop her as a character and personality in her own right- her own likes and dislikes, personality traits and ways she plays off the boys.

A lot of roles are already filled with the turtles- leader, tech geek, etc.- maybe she could fill a missing role, like being a doctor before she mutated, and work as the team Medic. Maybe she has different ways she gets along with the brothers- she and Leo like practicing martial arts together, or she and Mikey like scarfing Pizza and playing video games together, or she talks over geeky stuff with Donny.

Raph and her clash cause she can't stand he's such a hotheaded jerk (no relationship this time around, perhaps), and she can befriend splinter over the fact they were both once human. (For him a past life in IDW, Current life if it's the Nick version). Give her her own storylines- what kind of pain would she be going through because of the loss of her humanity- what about her family, her former friends?

It would also be interesting to see the turtles, who are already a family, adopt a new member in- how would it affect them to have a girl living with them all the time, instead of just having April over for visits? Maybe if it's IDW, Splinter could train her to be a Kunoichi, learning to fight with a war fan, paralleling April's training with Splinter in the Nick version. And yes, AFTER she's built as her own character and AFTER she's been developed as her own person, you could introduce romance with one of the turtles.

I know most people would be against this, or just want her to be a guest star. But I think both IDW and Nick turtles have been around long enough that upping the four brothers Dynamic with a fifth character wouldn't hurt things- IF IT'S WRITTEN CORRECTLY! The ideas above were just examples, she could be developed any which way a writer chose to develop her.

And no, 'we already have April' isn't an excuse, you can have more than one female character. And no 'it takes the spotlight away from the turtles' doesn't work either, because the 'five man band' has been a staple of TV shows, comics, and movies where all characters get equal development. Yes, you could make another brand new character who does all of this, but why go through all the trouble and risk over wither she'll be liked or not, when you already have such a good design and concept pre-made for you?

Look, I'm not advocating for 'Venus, Mark II', I just think this would be the next best idea to achieve the same goal, without bringing in another such mistake. And it could be done in ether IDW or Nick, in order to keep things fresh. What are the rest of your opinion's? I'm eager to hear if you agree, disagree, or think another character or idea could work! :)

[CyberCubed]

Mona Lisa worked because she was only in one episode. If she "joined the team" it would have been a terrible decision.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I am all for introducing her to the IDW comics. Would love to have her join the Mutanimals down the road...

[neatoman]

A couple of points.


What's wrong with just having Casey and April run around as their closest friends, do they really need more close allies?
Splinter is already the fifth mutant of the group.
Isn't there a good reason Mona Lisa disappeared into the nothingness she came from? She seemed pretty uninspired, the only reason she isn't a turtle is because Peter Laird hated that idea, it's one of the few times we know he demanded a change to an episode.
There is also a good reason why Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus are hated while people tolerate Ninjara, Alopex and Angel. Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus serve very little purpose and are given more focus than they needed. Ninjara, Alopex and Angel do not appear more than they need to.

[Mona_Lisa]

I would Love it, and if there is no romance this time around fine... Just don't make her crush on one of the other 3.
I would Love to write the script for nick :tlove: Dream on me!

I would make her an important character... She would be a girl from a wealthy family, took dance lessons and or gymnastics. College student. no prior self-defense training. Mutated, devastated, rescued, mental trauma over being mutated, feeling ugly. Trained by the turtles and splinter, learns to take care of herself (I think the gymnastics background would set her up to be very athletically fit and gifted at learning martial arts).... Learns to enjoy her new life, and she'd span several episodes but in the end... She would have to make the Tough decision to either stay a mutant or become human again. Ultimately going back to human.
I would toss in the romance with Raph that "will never be" too... but ya'll wouldn't like that.:twink:

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

A couple of points.


What's wrong with just having Casey and April run around as their closest friends, do they really need more close allies?
Splinter is already the fifth mutant of the group.
Isn't there a good reason Mona Lisa disappeared into the nothingness she came from? She seemed pretty uninspired, the only reason she isn't a turtle is because Peter Laird hated that idea, it's one of the few times we know he demanded a change to an episode.
There is also a good reason why Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus are hated while people tolerate Ninjara, Alopex and Angel. Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus serve very little purpose and are given more focus than they needed. Ninjara, Alopex and Angel do not appear more than they need to.


1.) Because there is no reason to just limit it to April and Casey.

2.) Mona Disappeared first because nobody gave her much thought for the longest time, then there was a decade and a half long embargo on anything that didn't come from Mirage comics. She didn't disappear because nobody liked her, or she was a bad idea.

3.) People don't like those characters because they weren't written well, not because they stole screen time from the tmnt.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

A couple of points.


What's wrong with just having Casey and April run around as their closest friends, do they really need more close allies?
Splinter is already the fifth mutant of the group.
Isn't there a good reason Mona Lisa disappeared into the nothingness she came from? She seemed pretty uninspired, the only reason she isn't a turtle is because Peter Laird hated that idea, it's one of the few times we know he demanded a change to an episode.
There is also a good reason why Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus are hated while people tolerate Ninjara, Alopex and Angel. Zach, Carter, Danny, Cody and Venus serve very little purpose and are given more focus than they needed. Ninjara, Alopex and Angel do not appear more than they need to.


Most people hated the Neutrinos (with good reason) but IDW still turned them around and made us like them.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I would Love it, and if there is no romance this time around fine... Just don't make her crush on one of the other 3.
I would Love to write the script for nick :tlove: Dream on me!

I would make her an important character... She would be a girl from a wealthy family, took dance lessons and or gymnastics. College student. no prior self-defense training. Mutated, devastated, rescued, mental trauma over being mutated, feeling ugly. Trained by the turtles and splinter, learns to take care of herself (I think the gymnastics background would set her up to be very athletically fit and gifted at learning martial arts).... Learns to enjoy her new life, and she'd span several episodes but in the end... She would have to make the Tough decision to either stay a mutant or become human again. Ultimately going back to human.
I would toss in the romance with Raph that "will never be" too... but ya'll wouldn't like that.:twink:

This... would be awesome! And I'm not against romance for her, but I'd establish her as a character first, then follow up romance much, much later!)

[neatoman]

Most people hated the Neutrinos (with good reason) but IDW still turned them around and made us like them.

Well they're basically new character in the IDW series, the hair styles and names are about the only things that carried over.

Whereas David Wise's Neutrino's were pacifist beatnik teenage delinquents spouting 50's slang, Tom Waltz's Neutrinos are no nonsense rebel soldiers.

I think the only reason they were the Neutrinos was so they wouldn't end up depicting the Federation as good guys.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Well they're basically new character in the IDW series, the hair styles and names are about the only things that carried over.

Whereas David Wise's Neutrino's were pacifist beatnik teenage delinquents spouting 50's slang, Tom Waltz's Neutrinos are no nonsense rebel soldiers.

I think the only reason they were the Neutrinos was so they wouldn't end up depicting the Federation as good guys.

And I would be fine with Mona Lisa getting the same makeover.

Female mutant salamander, green skin (maybe brunette), ironic name... just take the physical visual template and create an entirely new and awesome character.

[IndigoErth]

Think about it... a virtually blank slate of a character, with a very good design, that could be molded any way the writers see fit! Don't introduce her as a love interest, have her meet the turtles and connect to them just on the fact of being different, and not fitting in. Develop her as a character and personality in her own right- her own likes and dislikes, personality traits and ways she plays off the boys.
Yeah, that's something I've been saying for a while. Nick has a huge potential asset right there in a character who is already well known of and liked, but was around so brief she's 99% open for Nick's own ideas without much risk of doing it "wrong."

Really, I'd love to see her portrayed older. She was originally a college student, so making her in her 20s and an older ally - thus removing her from the love interest factor and diversifying the character ages of the good guys a little more - would be nice.

[TigerClaw]

Yep, I would like to see Mona Lisa as well.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/218/7/2/Mona_in_Pink_by_raevene.jpg

[Jephael]

I'd kinda like it if instead of making a new incarnation of Mona Lisa soley for the 3D Nickeoldeon universe, they showed the original version from the 2D Fred Wolf universe when we see that incarnation again. Hell, Mae Whitman's mom played the character back in the day, so it wouldn't be hard getting her to reprise the role!

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I'd kinda like it if instead of making a new incarnation of Mona Lisa soley for the 3D Nickeoldeon universe, they showed the original version from the 2D Fred Wolf universe when we see that incarnation again. Hell, Mae Whitman's mom played the character back in the day, so it wouldn't be hard getting her to reprise the role!

That would be cool, but I kinda wanted to see an IDW version, at least, too...

[pennydreadful]

I'm digging that fanart, Tigerclaw - would you mind linking to the artist's DA if they have one? I'd love to suss out the rest of their work. :tsmile:

[Shark_Blade]

That Mona Lisa reminds me of Bond girl, Honey Rider.

But yeah no need fifth turtle. Another female mutant? There's Alopex in IDW. In Nick, we have that lizard woman mutant that Jak Kurtzman had sex with.

[ticktack]

@Panda_Kahn_fan,
I agree and glad you've made such a post! :* :) :tcool::tcool::D

[ticktack]

Mutated, devastated, rescued, mental trauma over being mutated, feeling ugly
well, Mona Lisa, that role was given to Irma long ago, which I wasn't very found of ... blah because reasons.

[ticktack]

Also I felt a little odd when she said "ugly" about herself in a mutant form when there was Raph, maybe he was secure about his looks?

[TigerClaw]

I'm digging that fanart, Tigerclaw - would you mind linking to the artist's DA if they have one? I'd love to suss out the rest of their work. :tsmile:
The fanart came from here.
http://raevene.deviantart.com/

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

That Mona Lisa reminds me of Bond girl, Honey Rider.

But yeah no need fifth turtle. Another female mutant? There's Alopex in IDW. In Nick, we have that lizard woman mutant that Jak Kurtzman had sex with.

I disagree. While I don't think there should be a LITERAL fifth turtle, I do think Mona should be brought in to fill a female trutle-esque role. No, Alopex is not a good reason to not have her in IDW, as there should be no cap on female mutant characters. And a small role filled by a small cameo in the Nick show does not and should not stand in for a fully developed character.

[Huzzah]

Mona is not a well known chacter, there's just a contingent of fans who know she exists. She was never memorable, and her character was pretty bland. The only reason she had any type of fanbase was because she was one of the virtually nonexistent female mutants who existed in cartoon canon.

Plus, it would be counterproductive to add another main character to the show. The established characters already can't get any focus.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Mona is not a well known character, there's just a contingent of fans who know she exists. She was never memorable, and her character was pretty bland. The only reason she had any type of fanbase was because she was one of the virtually nonexistent female mutants who existed in cartoon canon.

Plus, it would be counterproductive to add another main character to the show. The established characters already can't get any focus.

First off, we're not just talking about the show, but also the IDW comics (personally, that's where I think she'd be a better fit!) Also, nick COULD actually use some more female characters, who aren't April or Karai, or don't turn out to be evil Kraang robots. She is not bland, she has an awesome character design. And for not being memorable, she sure is remembered, even by an age group that wasn't even around where the OT was on!

[TigerClaw]

Mona Lisa deserves a second chance, She was the only female mutant to get an Action Figure.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XU72S_CHbWs/UQ3j8ZRB1fI/AAAAAAAAJWw/cJx5ODhZSOg/s1600/%2524%2528KGrHqN%252C%2521pME-%252BBdIcT5BQFfSD5%252CYg%257E%257E60_57.jpg

[cryan]

This... would be awesome! And I'm not against romance for her, but I'd establish her as a character first, then follow up romance much, much later!)

I think I made this point before. I like the idea that this time she meets Raph but the relationship is very standoffish at first Similar to the way Han and Leia's relationship was in The Empire Strikes Back or April and Casey's relationship at the beginning of the first live action film. Mona thinks Raph's a jerk most of the time. They some times have different opinions. Along those lines.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Mona Lisa deserves a second chance, She was the only female mutant to get an Action Figure.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XU72S_CHbWs/UQ3j8ZRB1fI/AAAAAAAAJWw/cJx5ODhZSOg/s1600/%2524%2528KGrHqN%252C%2521pME-%252BBdIcT5BQFfSD5%252CYg%257E%257E60_57.jpg

Agreed. Only female mutant... unless you count mutated April. Other than a few variants of April, I think Mona Lisa was the only other female action figure for Fred Wolf TMNT period.

[CyberCubed]

April was mutated 3 times in the original cartoon:

- Cat-woman in Season 2

- Fish-lady in Season 4

- Wasp mutant in Season 7, when Baxter mutated all of Channel 6 into insects.


Of course the Turtles de-mutated her at the end of each episode.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

April was mutated 3 times in the original cartoon:

- Cat-woman in Season 2

- Fish-lady in Season 4

- Wasp mutant in Season 7, when Baxter mutated all of Channel 6 into insects.


Of course the Turtles de-mutated her at the end of each episode.

Really? I'd forgotten about the Fish-lady (but now I do remember that... it had the fish dude "Ray" in it and some mad scientist) but I never saw the wasp mutant episode.

And of course, "Cat-Woman" April was the one to get an action figure.

[CyberCubed]

The wasp-April is when all of Channel 6 gets mutated, and its also Baxter's final episode of the series.

[Candy Kappa]

April was also mutated into a turtle in TMNT Adventure Special #11

[TigerClaw]

April was also mutated into a turtle in TMNT Adventure Special #11
I have that issue, It also featured a female mutant Flying Squirrel.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-F2xpU6hdGgc/UBssImHvCcI/AAAAAAAAINk/Pe8o-W4Ia4s/s1600/fifth03.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cPpus_GiusQ/UBssKOmoedI/AAAAAAAAINs/pdgHs9kBo08/s1600/fifth04.jpg

http://miragelicensing.com/comics/archie/specials/winter94/04.jpg

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

why the 5th has to be female? like saint seiya? a female saint warrior? no no.
the 4 guys already represent the 4 typical characteristics, its hard to think of any other kind beside them.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

April was mutated 3 times in the original cartoon:

- Cat-woman in Season 2

- Fish-lady in Season 4

- Wasp mutant in Season 7, when Baxter mutated all of Channel 6 into insects.


Of course the Turtles de-mutated her at the end of each episode.


And Irma in that episode where the Rat King turned everyone at Channel Six into mutant rats. She also got turned into a moth.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Yeah, April went through a lot of mutations in the OT, she's been mutated more than the turtles themselves! :tlol:

Yeah, I just think mona would be a good choice for a main character, getting another female in there besides April, and making her feel like less of the 'token girl'.