Thoughts on a second chance for “the female ninja turtle”?

[The Coffee Man]

To the members of the TMNT fandom who have heard of her, I have to ask, do you think that someone working on TMNT, whether it be on a movie, tv show or comic, should give the infamous Venus de Milo a second chance in the franchise?

This has been something I've been thinking about recently when watching the recent shows. I’m aware that she’s hated by the entire fandom and even the creators of the franchise itself, and for good reason, mind you. She was pretty much the embodiment of a Mary Sue. She tore apart the brotherhood of the turtles, the show itself stating that the turtles weren't related to each other just so she could serve as a love interest for one of them and was made out to be this character that the turtles needed on their side in order to fight the villains and yet she doesn't need them. Hell, I don’t even like her role in Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation.

But sometimes I can’t help but wonder if this was a character that just had the misfortune of coming out at the wrong time. Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation came out during a period where the franchise had hit rock bottom. During that period we had Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III, The Red Sky Seasons, the Coming out of our Shells Tour, that awful Christmas video and the Image Comics.

The show was complete dud, not only did it say that the turtles weren't brothers and introduce a Mary Sue character, it had crappy stories, the costumes were bad, the special effects were bad (though in its defense, this was a 90's live-action show), the choreography sucked, each fight scene had these obnoxious sound effects, the acting sucked and it was just trying way WAY too hard to be Power Rangers.

The Christmas Video and Coming Out of our Shells aside, this show was TMNT at its worst. It took five years after its cancellation to put the franchise back on track with the 2003 Cartoon. No one wanted to touch Venus de Milo after The Next Mutation, in fact she became a berserk button for Peter Laird, he hated her so much that when Turtles Forever was being made he made it a rule that there was to be absolutely no mention of Venus.

Now, while this can be seen as a good thing sometimes I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if she was put into the hands of a good writer. Maybe there is a way to pull her off well. Make her a character who’s on equal ground with the turtles, doesn't ruin the brotherhood of the turtles just so she can be in a relationship with one of them and doesn't have the entire story revolve around her. It can probably work. I wouldn't mind seeing the franchise give her a second chance.

That’s my view on the whole thing. Your thoughts?

[Wolfie65]

Following in the footsteps of pretty much all other TV shows and movies (type irrelevant) currently on tap, the female Turtle would have to be a MENSA-smart, swimsuit model gorgeous (mutated) FBI agent, who is not only a martial artist of triple-black belt status, but also an expert in any type of weaponry known to cis- and transgendered humanity, not to mention a loving & caring SingleMom of 3 happy, intelligent & well-adjusted children.
Alternatively, she could be a mousy klutz, who is simultaneously courted by at least 2 or 3 rich, young male models - for reasons known only to the script writers.
The male characters of this show/movie would have to fall into 1 of 3 categories:
a) Clueless, spineless funny guy idiots who constantly question their sexuality
b) EEEEEVILLLL guys (old & ugly would help)
c) gorgeous boy toys who wuv her

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Honestly, I think the fandom would only have ever tolerated one attempt at a fifth girl Turtle.

And The Next Mutation was that attempt, it failed miserably, and as such has completely salted the earth for any future attempt.

Venus de Milo has left her legacy, and it is bitter as wormwood. :tlol:

[senpai]

Hmmm...I'd say nay to the female turtle. This is just personal preference because I hated Venus' character design and even looking at fanart...Female turtle mutants just don't look right. That's not to say it can't be done. If it can be done well then by all means...

[plastroncafe]

I wouldn't be opposed to a female turtle mutant, but she shouldn't have hair and she shouldn't have breasts. As for female characters having to be all things to all women, the easy solution to that is having more female characters in general. That way that one character doesn't have to stand in for everyone and they can be allowed to have flaws.

[PangolinFeets]

Venus was everything that shouldn't have been in a female/5th turtle. But really, everything about that series was awful, imo.

I think Sophie Campbell nailed it with Artemesia in her TMNT fan comic: named after a female artist, no shell boobs, hair, or big eyelashes, but still feminine. If a female turtle was ever added, it would have to be her.
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/162/5/5/tmnt__secrets_of_the_ooze_by_mooncalfe-d533shs.jpg

[IndigoErth]

I think a fifth who is present all the time really would have only worked if it was like she was there from the get-go, simply five baby turtles instead of four and one of them happened to be female, growing up as an equal sister... all like it's no big deal, nothing purposely focused on pointing out the fact that one happens to be a girl. One's a girl, end of story. (And real weapons, please.)


That aside though, five unfortunately just starts to feel like too many of the same sort of character, imo. If, say, the 2012 series or some other future series up and added her without being a sister:
She's another turtle they cross paths with eventually, but who did not start out with or mutate with them. Maybe she was a lab animal, or maybe enemies experimented with trying to mutate their own turtle to try to combat the boys and she was either lost, or better yet, purposely escaped, defecting from their ranks as she knew they were evil. Maybe she does not live locally, but becomes an ally and contact who occasionally aids them.
If like Slash, she's fully separate from the group, clearly a different species, and only there sometimes... it could work that way as it does for Slash. And why not make her quite a bit older, too old to be hanging out with them all the time? Giving her a valid reason why she's only seen when her assistance is needed and not simply being excluded too much in the show.


and it was just trying way WAY too hard to be Power Rangers.
Was also made by the same people which explains a lot. I'll never get the thing with Power Rangers, I suppose it's hokiness has it's charm with it's fans, but to think that same angle works for TMNT... no, just no. God no.


I think Sophie Campbell nailed it with Artemesia in her TMNT fan comic: named after a female artist, no shell boobs, hair, or big eyelashes, but still feminine. If a female turtle was ever added, it would have to be her.
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/162/5/5/tmnt__secrets_of_the_ooze_by_mooncalfe-d533shs.jpg
That would be awesome. And look...a real, equally legit weapon, too. :tthumbsu:

[Ulisa]

I think it could work if written well. I think people are so attached to the idea of just the 4 brothers that it would work better to make her an ally that shows up on occasion when the turtles need help, not as a permanent figure, maybe like Usagi. In fact, I always thought if they did introduce a female turtle that it wouldn't necessarily need to be s mutant. Maybe she's from the Kame clan in Usagi's world...

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

A female turtle could be one of the best things to happen to the franchise IF done correctly. If they come up with a good back story for her, a likable, well thought out personality, and a good design, then it could work, no doubt.

[Cryomancer]

If they changed one of the brothers into a lady turtle, who do you think would be the most accepted in the role? Which would get the least fanboy hate?

I feel like it would end up being Mike or Don but Leo or Raph would be far more interesting and daring, I think. Unless of course Raph just became nonstop PMS jokes.

[IndigoErth]

Unless of course Raph just became nonstop PMS jokes.
:lol: Female-Raph haters who also hate girls would have a heyday with that...

I can't even speculate really, that would be a pretty dangerous move for the makers, some might welcome it in their fave Turtle, but many people might be heartbroken.

As much as I'd love to see my gender represented more and a female Turtle could be cool if done right, I'd be crushed if they did that to Leo. Which feels kind of uncomfortable to say, because absolutely my gender should be good enough for any of them, but... it's just... uh... you know..? My number one fave fictional character and could hug him to death... wouldn't want him to stop being himself. I don't however feel the same about female characters, so yeah, I shamelessly say I wouldn't want to lose the mind hugs on him. :tlol:

Now if he was older and took some young woman under his wing, taught and mentored her and she turned out a lot like him many years later - that would be awesome to see.

Heck, that could be another take: they rescue some toddler turtle that their enemies created and take her into their family. So now they get to do the annoying little sister thing. :lol: That could actually be adorable.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If they changed one of the brothers into a lady turtle, who do you think would be the most accepted in the role? Which would get the least fanboy hate?

I feel like it would end up being Mike or Don but Leo or Raph would be far more interesting and daring, I think. Unless of course Raph just became nonstop PMS jokes.

You shut your mouth! :tlol:

One word: Starbuck. Love her or hate her, don't you do gender-swap any of the four Turtles. There is 25 years' of history for all four of those bros... don't go making my head explode.

[plastroncafe]

Hey, one of them could be female right now and given that turtles have very few and far between secondary sexual characteristics...we'd never know!

[Autbot_Benz]

You shut your mouth! :tlol:

One word: Starbuck. Love her or hate her, don't you do gender-swap any of the four Turtles. There is 25 years' of history for all four of those bros... don't go making my head explode.

agreed Its like The Doctor don't make him female like you wouldn't the 4 Turtles

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hey, one of them could be female right now and given that turtles have very few and far between secondary sexual characteristics...we'd never know!

I sense oncoming fan fiction... :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

No female Turtles. They would only be used for shipping or sex appeal anyway (like Venus having boobs), and furries would be all over them.

[plastroncafe]

I sense oncoming fan fiction... :tlol:

Raph, Why haven't you told anyone?

Because, April. You know damn well how crappy people treat women. And I refuse to be treated that way. Not by anyone, and certainly not by my family.

[IndigoErth]

Raph, Why haven't you told anyone?

Because, April. You know damn well how crappy people treat women. And I refuse to be treated that way. Not by anyone, and certainly not by my family.
The feels.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lttc43prSn1qht847.gif


What really probably happens in fan stuff... Turtle is girl now, April must teach about makeup and fashion.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Abandon thread.

[plastroncafe]

The feels.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lttc43prSn1qht847.gif


What really probably happens... Turtle is girl now, April must teach about makeup and fashion.

Not that there is anything what so ever about makeup and fashion, but yes. Probably. Of course...with more female turtles we could have some involved in fashion and make up, while the others are just find with punching things. The turtles could remain boys and STILL be interested in make up and fashion, because there are men and boys who are.

Such are the wonders and majesty of having a diverse cast of characters.

Of course...the turtles themselves are such...stereotypes that there's bound to be some problems with making any of them female. Or even anything other than Default Boy.

[Duke Nukem]

I'm with Laird, no female turtles, no matter how well done. It takes away from the fact that the turtles are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives. You can add other female characters, without having to make one or more of them turtles. I wouldn't like any of them to be around all the time, making one of them a "5th turtle" even if it's a completely different species would be a no-go as far as I'm concerned. We already have Splinter/April/Casey. I'd also be against another guy that also hangs around them 100% of the time (i.e Serling)

[ProactiveMan]

Adding another turtle has always seemed like a stunt to me, like there is a little cabinet on a wall somewhere, with a fifth turtle in it under a sign that says 'break glass in case of emergency'. Having said that, If you were going to add another one, it probably should be a girl, otherwise your just retreading the same ground.

Having said that, there is something very specific about the relationship between brothers that I've always found appealing in TMNT; maybe because I don't have any brothers.

If you were going to write honestly, making one of the brothers a sister would change the dynamic somewhat; not in a bad way, but it wouldn't be the same thing.

[Cryomancer]

I can't remember now, have they ever really explained anything about Utrom biology? Do they have genders and reproduce in the...usual way, or do they just clone themselves or something? What's their lifespan like?

Basically I'm wondering if there was some obvious Utrom thing that could be applied to the turtles in order for them to create offspring. Of course, being mutants, it's quite possible they never even developed the ability to reproduce even if there were female mutants of the same genetic layout. But some type of cloning is still a possibility for them.

[The Coffee Man]

I'm with Laird, no female turtles, no matter how well done. It takes away from the fact that the turtles are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives

Wasn't there someone in the comics that had Mikey's eggs?

[Shark_Blade]

Wasn't there someone in the comics that had Mikey's eggs?His balls? Scrotum? Ovum?

What are you saying?

[IndigoErth]

Er, they're eggs? You know, like... actual eggs. From some alien dino-like princess I believe? But that's about all I know of that.

[Shark_Blade]

Mikey laid an egg? Eggs? Wait, no..

[Jester]

Mikey laid an egg? Eggs? Wait, no..
No...Mikey is believed to have fathered the eggs of the Seri the Regenta of Y'Nood Minor (http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Seri).

[Shark_Blade]

So Mikey had sex with an alien, and she laid eggs ... okay. I dunno how I feel about that.

Maybe that's the case with him and Renet in Nick show too..

[IndigoErth]

Maybe that's the case with him and Renet in Nick show too..
Mikey + Renet the Timestress =

http://i.imgur.com/ZEoNe3P.jpg

:P:lol:

[Shark_Blade]

Lol :tlol: egg-cellent. :P

[Cryomancer]

The dinosaur eggs may or may not be his. She made him believe they are, but she might just be playing him, it wasn't resolved.

[Shark_Blade]

The dinosaur eggs may or may not be his. She made him believe they are, but she might just be playing him, it wasn't resolved.What a whore. :o

Mikey why'd you fell for such a despicable creature? :cry:

[Candy Kappa]

Another way to introduce a female character, would be making one of the main four a female turtle in a new version off the TMNT.

[Cryomancer]

What a whore. :o

Mikey why'd you fell for such a despicable creature? :cry:

Well why would he assume he was genetically compatible with a space dinosaur and that she'd lay eggs like, the morning after?

[1987]

please no female ninja turtles ever again, just no.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Of course, being mutants, it's quite possible they never even developed the ability to reproduce even if there were female mutants of the same genetic layout.



Y'know, that is a very good question, and something I recently considered playing with for a fan-fic idea. Just because they're "male" doesn't necessarily mean they even have the capacity to reproduce, even if there WAS a female of their species available. Mutations often result in sterile individuals anyway, so it's very possible they could be utterly incapable of having offspring at all. Good example is most hybrid species (mules, ligers) are sterile. So are many natural mutations like frogs with extra limbs and the like.


Mikey + Renet the Timestress =

http://i.imgur.com/ZEoNe3P.jpg

:P:lol:


OMG, that's hilarious! I laughed so hard my other half asked what was so funny. Had to explain it to him- he still doesn't quite get it....


Another way to introduce a female character, would be making one of the main four a female turtle in a new version off the TMNT.


I've thought of doing this. In fact, kinda' already did with my head-canon of Donnie being a hermaphrodite. (Closet medical chimera hermie- got parts of both sexes, but nothing works. Poor guy....) I based the idea off of some of the OT Don's quirks, like his extreme moodiness, lack of interest in females of any kind (mostly), his oddly higher-pitched voice, and his choice of color for his bandana. (Blue and red- think about it. Blue is typically considered masculine, red is thought to be more "feminine"- IE, such as pink. Purple being right in the middle.) When viewed from the perspective of having several feminine attributes mixed into his "male" persona (aka being dual-sexed) it made sense!