Nick comparisons to 2k3 series

[aliena]

I'm binge watching the 2k3 series and I must say to anyone who hasn't watched it, you need to watch it. So many moments make me cry and laugh, it is amazing.

But now that I've seen so many episodes, I'm looking at the Nick series and enjoying seeing the comparisons. I realize now that Nick is the kidification version of 2k3, but there are some things that are trade offs.

Warning, read no further if you have not seen the 2k3 series as this will be filled with spoilers...


Keep in mind, this is just my observed opinion, but for instance..
The 2k3 Mikey is selfish, whiny, braggy, and annoying a lot of the time. I also don't feel he is all that compassionate toward others, but he is respected by his brothers and depended on during fighting.

In comparison, I now see that Nick Mikey gets entire episodes where he is strong, smart and in control, and he is very compassionate toward his brothers as well as others. He also connects a lot more on a social playing field, even with the enemies. I now love this Mikey far more than I even did before.

Then there's Leo. In both series he's seen as the leader with all the responsibilities, but he is more so the prodigal son in 2k3. They both shared moments of darkness and brooding due to battles with Shredder and their caring of Karai, but 2k3 Leo goes on for a long time, which Nick Leo wraps it up sooner.

He doesn't get to have his journey to recovery like 2k3 and I wish they'd give Nick Leo something like that.(Even though I know there was a feisty thread on Leo becoming too perfect) I do not want the others to be pushed to the side to make it all about Leo.

As for Raph, man, if I loved him before, I really love him now in the 2k3 series. He's my favorite Raph, probably my favorite character out of all the incarnations. I could watch him do his own spin off I love him that much. Just seeing tears in his eyes...my my.

Having said that, Nick Raph does get to have a heck of a lot more character development. I know that sounds impossible, but we learn of his true fear of insects, his possible connection to animals, his ability to be a true leader in times of need and he went dark...for five minutes, but he still went dark. However, I'm not finished with the 2k3 series so that may still be something forthcoming, crossing my fingers that it is.

There is a so much more to compare, but I think this is long enough for now. I'd love to hear any other comparisons that I might be missing.

[turtlefanforever]

One is complete crap, with crappy writing, characters designs, and voice acting (Nick) and the other is the most true to the comics, great voice acting, and writing with people who actually care about the franchise (2k3) that about sums it up :tgrin:

[Autbot_Benz]

One is complete crap, with crappy writing, characters designs, and voice acting (Nick) and the other is the most true to the comics, great voice acting, and writing with people who actually care about the franchise (2k3) that about sums it up :tgrin:

is all you do just hate on the nick series ? its the best series currently.

[neatoman]

is all you do just hate on the nick series ? its the best series currently.

I thought that was IDW?

[Ninturtle]

One is complete crap, with crappy writing, characters designs, and voice acting (Nick) and the other is the most true to the comics, great voice acting, and writing with people who actually care about the franchise (2k3) that about sums it up :tgrin:

Did you really say Nick has bad voice actors and character designs? That's like the 2 things people unanimously like about it especially the voice acting.

[turtlefanforever]

is all you do just hate on the nick series ? its the best series currently.

Says the eternal pessimist.

Wildcat its ECTO 1 Not Ectomobile

The Episode was used for Playmates to make and sell another set of Turtle Figures

ya If Eastman saw a shiny turd with the turtles on them it would get his seal of approval.

you have a better chance of hell freezing over before that happens

That's just from your last 5 posts. Do you ever have anything nice to say?. It's constant trolling a rudeness. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.

[turtlefanforever]

Did you really say Nick has bad voice actors and character designs? That's like the 2 things people unanimously like about it especially the voice acting.

Really? cause i'm pretty sure when the designs came out everyone including myself was hating on them for the most part. Then people just forced themselves to get used to them. Like anything there will be select few who actually like them but when they were released it was almost all hate.

[Autbot_Benz]

Says the eternal pessimist.









That's just from your last 5 posts. Do you ever have anything nice to say?. It's constant trolling a rudeness. I don't know how you haven't been banned yet.

I haven't broken any rules to be banned. :roll: smart guy

[Amaranthus]

turtlefanforever, you like the Marvel animated universe. Maybe you just have a really sh*tty taste?
What does it feel like to be such an enormous plebeian?

[turtlefanforever]

I haven't broken any rules to be banned. :roll: smart guy

i'll just leave this here.

Since this site is based on the original TMNT cartoon (1987-1996), original cartoon bashing of any kind is not allowed.

Please respect other members. Attacking or harassing other members on the forums is not allowed. This includes trolling (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments). If you get into an argument with another member, please take it to email/PM/IM and keep it off the forums.

and that's the end of that.

[Amaranthus]

Thank god I'm not bashing the original cartoon. I'm bashing you and that sh*tty taste of yours.
:lol:

[Luckyday]

I thought that was IDW?

^ This is the correct answer.:lol:

In all honestly, what nick's tmnt does well over 2k3's is voice acting, and sorta balancing between the main four turtles. Even though Nick's sometimes tends to focus on Leo and Donnie, it doesn't favorite them or suddenly treat them like they're the epicenter main characters with others hovering around them. The show makes you feel that Mikey and Raph are just as much as the main characters as the other two.

What nick's tmnt lacked early on is having a long narrative in comparison to 2k3's. 2k3's does this with such a graceful transition in showing how something that had happen in past will effect later in the storyline. With 2k3's storylines, there is a clear beginning, middle and end, while nick's tmnt has a tendency of getting sidetrack when those fillers were originally suppose to feel like a breather and ending up having a opposite reaction from me. It's like you were really getting into the story with it's climax and the movie suddenly felt the need to take the main character to the beach so that he can take a nap for fifteen minutes.

But I can't say that 2k3 had a good idea at comedy because their idea of humor is center around pop culture references and with Mikey saying a movie line. Even though nick's guilty of doing this as well with throwing pop culture references but they were never really use them as a joke like 2k3's. Nick's sense humor comes from comedic and ridiculous situations, and instead of making Mikey the sole comedic relief, everyone and I mean everyone has their share of comedic moments. It just makes the show more vibrant and less jarring to me.

[aliena]

^ This is the correct answer.:lol:

In all honestly, what nick's tmnt does well over 2k3's is voice acting, and sorta balancing between the main four turtles. Even though Nick's sometimes tends to focus on Leo and Donnie, it doesn't favorite them or suddenly treat them like they're the epicenter main characters with others hovering around them. The show makes you feel that Mikey and Raph are just as much as the main characters as the other two.

What nick's tmnt lacked early on is having a long narrative in comparison to 2k3's. 2k3's does this with such a graceful transition in showing how something that had happen in past will effect later in the storyline. With 2k3's storylines, there is a clear beginning, middle and end, while nick's tmnt has a tendency of getting sidetrack when those fillers were originally suppose to feel like a breather and ending up having a opposite reaction from me. It's like you were really getting into the story with it's climax and the movie suddenly felt the need to take the main character to the beach so that he can take a nap for fifteen minutes.

But I can't say that 2k3 had a good idea at comedy because their idea of humor is center around pop culture references and with Mikey saying a movie line. Even though nick's guilty of doing this as well with throwing pop culture references but they were never really use them as a joke like 2k3's. Nick's sense humor comes from comedic and ridiculous situations, and instead of making Mikey the sole comedic relief, everyone and I mean everyone has their share of comedic moments. It just makes the show more vibrant and less jarring to me.

I agree, the transitioning from a beginning, middle and end is very well done in 2k3. I hate to say this, but I feel that Nick doesn't do that because they have to do what they can to get as much money out of it as possible.

Very sad to say that, but I am still hopeful we will get some middle and ends at some point. Most of the humor I find in 2k3 is caused by Raph. His deadpan one notes are hilarious to me. Donnie throws in a few occasionally as well. I'm going to be sad when this show is over. :(

[Aaronardo]

i'll just leave this here.

Since this site is based on the original TMNT cartoon (1987-1996), original cartoon bashing of any kind is not allowed.

Please respect other members. Attacking or harassing other members on the forums is not allowed. This includes trolling (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments). If you get into an argument with another member, please take it to email/PM/IM and keep it off the forums.

and that's the end of that.

That is an outdated as hell rule. I hope you're happy with sending another thread down the tubes simply because you won't shut up about your biased "opinion" (have you ever had anything to back up your so-called "opinion"? No? No).

I've seen you since you first joined this site. Since Day 1. And all you've done since then was bash the Nick cartoon for no good reason. Any time you get the chance, you're posting about how much the Nick toon sucks and how much you wish the Nick toon was gone or whatever and never giving any reasoning behind your "opinion".

If you're not trying to troll, you sure are doing a good job with making yourself seem like one. Talk about how the Nick toon sucks on any other site, hell, any other sub-forum, but when you take this bullsh*t to a fansite (or at least fan-sub-forum) for the toon, that's crossing the line. Just shut up and enjoy what you like, and we'll enjoy what we like. Okay? Okay.

[Amaranthus]

He didn't even try to defend himself because he knows I'm telling the truth.

[Autbot_Benz]

That is an outdated as hell rule. I hope you're happy with sending another thread down the tubes simply because you won't shut up about your biased "opinion" (have you ever had anything to back up your so-called "opinion"? No? No).
I've seen you since you first joined this thread. Since Day 1. And all you've done since then was bash the Nick cartoon for no good reason. Any time you get the chance, you're posting about how much the Nick toon sucks and how much you wish the Nick toon was gone or whatever and never giving any reasoning behind your "opinion".
If you're not trying to troll, you sure are doing a good job with making yourself seem like one. Talk about how the Nick toon sucks on any other site, hell, any other sub-forum, but when you take this bullsh*t to a fansite (or at least fan-sub-forum) for the toon, that's crossing the line. Just shut up and enjoy what you like, and we'll enjoy what we like. Okay? Okay.
I agree with this you couldn't say it any better

[Mew]

Agreed with Aaronardo.
I don't hate the 1987 show, but the Turtle's personalitys were dull, the last few seasons were crap, and the best parts were Shredder and Krang. I always rooted for them instead of the TMNT. It is still enjoyable, but mostly for Shredder and Krang.

[IndigoErth]

Ah, I'm often saying it, but remains true that I have a hard time really comparing different versions like that. They all have their pros and cons, but different enough that they just stand on their own to me.

Between the two series though... I do prefer human Shredder and like how Nick made Karai Splinter's daughter raised by Shredder, it's an interesting take. It's interesting that Nick combined the evil Krang of 1987 with the multiple Utroms relocated to Earth of 2003. I like the more mature feel of 2003, but I like that Nick actually made the characters feel like they for once actually are the age they claim to be. 2003 is better on the long-term storylines, but Nick added more individuality between characters in design.

[kelligrafie]

Getting sick of 2003 being dredged up in arguments against 2012 tbh. That's why I won't give it time of day because my experience of 2003 fanboys is that they're disrespectful and refuse to accept the merits of any other version of TMNT.

I tried to watch it once but couldn't get into it and because of the points I mentioned above I'm loathe to give it another go because I don't want to be associated with people that are so rude to everyone else.

Is it sensible to base my opinion of a show based on the fans? I honestly don't know.

You get idiots in every fanbase as you do nice people, but 2003 seems to have a mix which is biased severely towards the idiot end.

[Redeemer]

One is complete crap, with crappy writing, characters designs, and voice acting (Nick) and the other is the most true to the comics, great voice acting, and writing with people who actually care about the franchise (2k3) that about sums it up :tgrin:

woe now Rob Paulsen(OT Raph) is a voice actor on that show.

I agree that 2K3 TMNT is superior in most aspects in my opinion.
I think the Nick show is great.

[Redeemer]

Getting sick of 2003 being dredged up in arguments against 2012 tbh. That's why I won't give it time of day because my experience of 2003 fanboys is that they're disrespectful and refuse to accept the merits of any other version of TMNT.

I tried to watch it once but couldn't get into it and because of the points I mentioned above I'm loathe to give it another go because I don't want to be associated with people that are so rude to everyone else.

You get idiots in every fanbase as you do nice people, but 2003 seems to have a mix which is biased severely towards the idiot end.

That is just a ignorant statement.

[The-Shredder]

The 2k3 Mikey is selfish, whiny, braggy, and annoying a lot of the time. I also don't feel he is all that compassionate toward others, but he is respected by his brothers and depended on during fighting.


I think you're being too hard on 2003 Mikey. Yes, he can come off as extremely flamboyant and selfish, and less so at other times (which I think adds to the humor of the character), but to say he isn't as compassionate is inaccurate. An example of his compassionate behavior would be in the Season 2 "Rogue in the House" episodes where he makes friends with Zog, the Season 3 episode "The Christmas Aliens," or even in Season 1's "The Unconvincing Turtle Titan."

[Leo656]

Redeemer: Yea.

I like how any TMNT fan who ever likes things that are less goofy and explains why is an asshole. That's always cute.

[pennydreadful]

http://rs1img.memecdn.com/the-i-say-shark_fb_896454.jpg

Oh there's a lot of salt in the water 'round here lately. :lol:

[Leo656]

Too much testosterone. It's what happens when people scare off all the Fem-Nazi Lezbot T-Cest Shipper Trash and they all take to Tumblr instead. :tgrin:

[CyberCubed]

While the thread creator had good intentions, unfortunately this thread has spiraled out of control. I think it needs to be locked and re-posted to start fresh with new and decent discussion.

[Leo656]

Nah.

"My thing is better than Your thing."

By definition, it's impossible for that to end well.

[THGhost]

Since this site is based on the original TMNT cartoon (1987-1996), original cartoon bashing of any kind is not allowed.

I'm pretty sure this "rule" has long died out due to its ridiculousness. People are allowed to not like something. Just because the guy(s) who created these forums were big fans of the Fred Wolf series, that doesn't mean they have the right to ban people who don't like it. Gimme a break! :roll:

I consider both the 4Kids and Nick series superior to the Fred Wolf series. Is that worthy of a ban? No. It's my personal opinion and I'm entitled to it, damn it!

While the thread creator had good intentions, unfortunately this thread has spiraled out of control. I think it needs to be locked and re-posted to start fresh with new and decent discussion.

This. In spades.

[NoName999]

2k3 series.

It's really no contest.

[pennydreadful]

Too much testosterone. It's what happens when people scare off all the Fem-Nazi Lezbot T-Cest Shipper Trash and they all take to Tumblr instead. :tgrin:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdaykaH9hk1qc3nxxo1_r1_250.gif

Seriously though, this thread would have been fine if the usual dill-pickles could've managed to contain themselves.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdaykaH9hk1qc3nxxo2_250.gif

[Leo656]

That rabbit is coked off his tits.

[victory_angel]

I strongly enjoy the 2k3 series,

but I also enjoy the nick series.

Yes 2k3 had it's flaws but so does the nick show.
and they both have their ways of convoying their story as well. And some of those ways don't work as well as the story and we also see glaring examples of where the corners had to be cut on things.

It's like comparing Coke to Pepsi. You have vaguely similar offerings, and some people are going to go on and on about how one is better then the other. But at the end of the day your still comparing two different brands of the same thing.

[The Coffee Man]

Yeesh, what's with all the hostility today?

I mean first we had a thread reminiscent of something you'd find on MLP Forums with extra vitrol then we have this thread which has a good topic to discuss only for people to suck the fun out of it by trading insults. Funny enough all the salt seems to be confined to this sub-forum.

[Leo656]

I had no idea how many people jumped in the water without checking the temperature first.

It's the Drome. A most wretched hive of scum and villainy, to be certain. I would've thought the secret was long out on this place.

[Jester]

See signature....

[THGhost]

In response to the original question: 2K3 or Nick?

I honestly cannot decide which one I like more right now, since I haven't watched the 2K3 series in years. I no doubt would choose it over the Nick series though, since I grew up with it and it's more faithful to the original comics. I do still enjoy the Nick series for what it is.

[srmff]

I grew up watching the 2003 and 1987 show. I preferred the 2003 show but it was the Nick version that got me to love TMNT and got me interested in the comics. I also watched the 2003 show again when Nick went on hiatus. I love both versions but I find the Nick show more engaging and even vibrant. It can be quite dark and emotional when it needs to be. It has a nice balance between humour and action. I like having a younger April and a Splinter who is powerful and more of a father to the turtles than purely a teacher. You can tell that the people making are big fans and the voice acting is great.

[Foombamaroom]

It's hard to compare these two.
One has a seasonal story, the other has seasonal stories. TMNT 2003 just borrowed arcs from the comics, and only had a story for a whole season in seasons 5 and 7. Nick, on the other hand, has two main stories: Kraang and Shredder. With that said, it can be argued that TMNT 2003 doesn't necessarily have any "filler" episodes, as most of the arcs and villains get closure by the end of the series. Also, it wasn't afraid to go darker than most incarnations. However, Nick's show is littered with filler episodes due to them having a consistent story. But when the story episodes show up, man, they are good. Take episodes like The Gauntlet, Wrath of Tiger Claw, Slash and Destroy, Vengeance is Mine, Vision Quest, Return to New York, and, arguably the greatest episode of the series, The Invasion. While there are more like this, these are some of the episodes that really stand out as amazing. I don't recall that many for 2003 besides Same as it Never Was. Why? Because TMNT 2003 is very similar to Star Wars: The Clone Wars. It didn't have fantastic episodes, it had fantastic arcs.

For characters, I thought the 2003 series got their Turtles spot on. I loved each and every one of them. Development wise? Leo obviously got the most, then Mikey, then Donnie, then Raph, which is unfortunate since Raph is my favorite turtle and 2003 had the best incarnation of the character. 2012's Turtles fit the show really well, but they each have their flaws. The series usually switches towards Leo and Donnie, leaving Mikey and Raph with filler episodes. Occasionally they'll each get a good one, like Raph's Slash and Destroy, Clash of the Mutanimals, The Good, the Bad, and Casey Jones, and Mikey's Leatherhead episode. However, I feel like this'll change, since I think season 1 did a great job dividing the Turtles equally, season 2 was more or less Donnie's season, and season 3 is feeling like Leo's season. Hopefully we'll get a Mikey or Raph season (preferably Raph) for season 4.

Villain-wise, I think 2003 suffered from trying to distance itself from the 87 cartoon, but it had its own villains, who honestly weren't memorable in my opinion. The only exceptions were Bishop, who was a damn good villain, and Karai, who really was bland in the original source material. While the Utroms were brought in, I think they should've brought in Krang as a rogue Utrom, but making Shredder an Utrom would've negated that. 2012 suffers from trying to reinvent the 87 villains, while trying to add in new villains. Most of the new villains they add are stupid, too, but they've got some good ones like Tiger Claw. I think they could use some from the 2003/Mirage sources, though, like Bishop and maybe even the Utroms. We know the Triceratons are coming, so that'll be cool.

But I think the biggest gripe I had with 2003 that I don't have in 2012 is Shredder and Splinter. 2003 Shredder was an alien warlord who wanted to take over the Utrom homeworld. It kind of made me mad while watching 2003 because that makes Shredder nothing special. The thing that's so unique about Shredder is that the Turtles fight off so many mutants and aliens, but they get their butts handed to them by one human in some armor. I think that's what made me like Bishop so much, as he could literally take all four Turtles, Hun, and Karai using nothing but a tie and objects around him. Splinter was inconsistent, and was either a really great fighter, or a fighter that could get knocked out in one punch. 2012 Shredder and Splinter on the other hand, are two completely different stories. 2012 Shredder's a beast when it comes to fighting. By season 2, the Turtles of 2003 were a match for their Shredder, while we're over halfway through season 3 and Shredder can still kick the crap out of the 2012 Turtles. Not only that, but he was able to take on Slash, Rockwell, Leatherhead, Pigeon Pete, and the Turtles all at the same time. Splinter's a complete badass, too. He's wiser and gives the Turtles more independence, while still being there when they need him.

In all honesty, the only characters that I feel the TMNT 2012 series has done wrong are April and Casey. While they do fit the tone and themes of the show, I just think they're too much like teenagers rather than young adults, while the April and Casey of 2003 were fantastic and exactly how the characters ought to be portrayed. In all honesty, I'd take the 2012 series over the 2003 series. While it's great to see the Mirage comics brought to life, it's nice to see a series that is trying to please the nostalgia, while still going its own route.

[srmff]

I completely agree with the above comment.

[aliena]

It's hard to compare these two.
One has a seasonal story, the other has seasonal stories. TMNT 2003 just borrowed arcs from the comics, and only had a story for a whole season in seasons 5 and 7. Nick, on the other hand, has two main stories: Kraang and Shredder. With that said, it can be argued that TMNT 2003 doesn't necessarily have any "filler" episodes, as most of the arcs and villains get closure by the end of the series. Also, it wasn't afraid to go darker than most incarnations. However, Nick's show is littered with filler episodes due to them having a consistent story. But when the story episodes show up, man, they are good. Take episodes like The Gauntlet, Wrath of Tiger Claw, Slash and Destroy, Vengeance is Mine, Vision Quest, Return to New York, and, arguably the greatest episode of the series, The Invasion. While there are more like this, these are some of the episodes that really stand out as amazing. I don't recall that many for 2003 besides Same as it Never Was. Why? Because TMNT 2003 is very similar to Star Wars: The Clone Wars. It didn't have fantastic episodes, it had fantastic arcs.

For characters, I thought the 2003 series got their Turtles spot on. I loved each and every one of them. Development wise? Leo obviously got the most, then Mikey, then Donnie, then Raph, which is unfortunate since Raph is my favorite turtle and 2003 had the best incarnation of the character. 2012's Turtles fit the show really well, but they each have their flaws. The series usually switches towards Leo and Donnie, leaving Mikey and Raph with filler episodes. Occasionally they'll each get a good one, like Raph's Slash and Destroy, Clash of the Mutanimals, The Good, the Bad, and Casey Jones, and Mikey's Leatherhead episode. However, I feel like this'll change, since I think season 1 did a great job dividing the Turtles equally, season 2 was more or less Donnie's season, and season 3 is feeling like Leo's season. Hopefully we'll get a Mikey or Raph season (preferably Raph) for season 4.

Villain-wise, I think 2003 suffered from trying to distance itself from the 87 cartoon, but it had its own villains, who honestly weren't memorable in my opinion. The only exceptions were Bishop, who was a damn good villain, and Karai, who really was bland in the original source material. While the Utroms were brought in, I think they should've brought in Krang as a rogue Utrom, but making Shredder an Utrom would've negated that. 2012 suffers from trying to reinvent the 87 villains, while trying to add in new villains. Most of the new villains they add are stupid, too, but they've got some good ones like Tiger Claw. I think they could use some from the 2003/Mirage sources, though, like Bishop and maybe even the Utroms. We know the Triceratons are coming, so that'll be cool.

But I think the biggest gripe I had with 2003 that I don't have in 2012 is Shredder and Splinter. 2003 Shredder was an alien warlord who wanted to take over the Utrom homeworld. It kind of made me mad while watching 2003 because that makes Shredder nothing special. The thing that's so unique about Shredder is that the Turtles fight off so many mutants and aliens, but they get their butts handed to them by one human in some armor. I think that's what made me like Bishop so much, as he could literally take all four Turtles, Hun, and Karai using nothing but a tie and objects around him. Splinter was inconsistent, and was either a really great fighter, or a fighter that could get knocked out in one punch. 2012 Shredder and Splinter on the other hand, are two completely different stories. 2012 Shredder's a beast when it comes to fighting. By season 2, the Turtles of 2003 were a match for their Shredder, while we're over halfway through season 3 and Shredder can still kick the crap out of the 2012 Turtles. Not only that, but he was able to take on Slash, Rockwell, Leatherhead, Pigeon Pete, and the Turtles all at the same time. Splinter's a complete badass, too. He's wiser and gives the Turtles more independence, while still being there when they need him.

In all honesty, the only characters that I feel the TMNT 2012 series has done wrong are April and Casey. While they do fit the tone and themes of the show, I just think they're too much like teenagers rather than young adults, while the April and Casey of 2003 were fantastic and exactly how the characters ought to be portrayed. In all honesty, I'd take the 2012 series over the 2003 series. While it's great to see the Mirage comics brought to life, it's nice to see a series that is trying to please the nostalgia, while still going its own route.

Excellent post, I agree with what you have mentioned. 2k3 Raph rocks, but I do love Nick Raph too. More Raph is needed for sure. I really like Bishop a lot, mostly because he wants to help people in the long run, but he is also damaged from what happened to him when he was young? I think his treatment of Baxter, in comparison to Shredder, is also commendable. I am only on season four, so who knows what lies ahead with him.

[aliena]

I think you're being too hard on 2003 Mikey. Yes, he can come off as extremely flamboyant and selfish, and less so at other times (which I think adds to the humor of the character), but to say he isn't as compassionate is inaccurate. An example of his compassionate behavior would be in the Season 2 "Rogue in the House" episodes where he makes friends with Zog, the Season 3 episode "The Christmas Aliens," or even in Season 1's "The Unconvincing Turtle Titan."

I sure wish I didn't have to be so hard on him. Usually, Mikey is a character that I am very fond of. Maybe on my second viewing I'll see him differently. He is compassionate with Klunk and almost died for him, well, if things had been what they seemed he would have almost died for him. The last few episodes I have watched have shown him to have more compassion toward others. His caring of poor Donnie in Good Genes was also compassionate.

I think it was the constant bragging about the battle nexus that turned me off. Even when he had to do Grudge Match and Raph, Don and Splinter turned away from him to teach him a lesson, I wanted him to learn his lesson. Leo was fantastic in that episode and stood by him no matter what, good thing too.

[srmff]

I sure wish I didn't have to be so hard on him. Usually, Mikey is a character that I am very fond of. Maybe on my second viewing I'll see him differently. He is compassionate with Klunk and almost died for him, well, if things had been what they seemed he would have almost died for him. The last few episodes I have watched have shown him to have more compassion toward others. His caring of poor Donnie in Good Genes was also compassionate.

I think it was the constant bragging about the battle nexus that turned me off. Even when he had to do Grudge Match and Raph, Don and Splinter turned away from him to teach him a lesson, I wanted him to learn his lesson. Leo was fantastic in that episode and stood by him no matter what, good thing too.

I think most people find Michelangelo obnoxious in 2003 so you're not alone. Although my brother does like him and prefers him to the Nick version so he does have some fans. He didn't actually bother me in the show but he was probably my least favourite turtle.

[ImmaAxolotl]

Now my opinion is most likely biased because I practically grew up on 2K3, but I'll try to keep things balanced.

-While I did enjoy 2012 Leo being a fanboy, now that he's grown beyond that I can't help but wonder: what else is there? I mean, there's that thing with Karai, but the show doesn't really show how it affects him as a person.
-While 2003 Leo did get the most focus, it seemed to be for valid reasons (his shot confidence from almost being killed by the Shredder, his frustration about being helpless to do anything during Exodus, being wrong about Karai, etc). It would've been nice if the other turtles also had this amount of focus and character development.

-2012 Mikey is incredibly annoying and stupid. While he does have his moments (such as with Leatherhead), I just wish he was more mature and acted his age (the guy isn't 2 anymore).
-2003 Mikey was arrogant, made pop-culture references, and was quite the scaredy-cat if you'd believe it. I think this has to do with his comfort zone. Despite his drawbacks, he surprising understands a lot about his brother (as revealed in Samurai Tourist and the Battle Nexus fight against Raph). It's hard to say whether or not he acts annoying to mess with his family members.

-2012 Raph used to have interesting characteristics, but those seemed to have faded over time. The episodes that "focus" on him don't leave any lasting effects (such as only being torn up about Slash at the end of the latter's debut episode). The writers also seem to tweak his character to fit the course of whatever episode, as shown in Clash of the Mutanimals, where his temper was overblown for the sake of plot. It seems like no one at Nick knows what to do with him.
-2003 Raph may not have had the same amount of interesting characteristics like his Nick counterpart, but his character and development was very consistent. There are many moments are B-plots showing that he isn't all gruffness, but no A-plots focusing specifically on that. His hatred of bugs and dry sarcasm are entertaining, and he cares deeply about all of his brothers, even Leo. Another difference between 2003 Raph and the 2012 one is his rivalry with Leo, which isn't quite as violent as the Mirage counterparts (but that's for another day).

-2012 Don is a loud, obsessive, arrogant spaz who fell in love with April at first sight and almost became a satellite character because of it. His stalking definitely gives a creepy vibe (thank goodness he stopped it), and his jealousy of Casey seems to turn into an unlikely friendship whenever the writers seem fit. Many times, he has had "funny" little freak-outs that are more annoying than anything else, and has abandoned his brothers to save April (another thing that has improved). Now that I think about it, he's surprisingly similar to 2003's Baxter Stockman when one considers how they act. It's probably just me, however. All of his development primarily focused on April and/or Casey. As of writing this, he has also failed to cure Timothy and Karai, practically forgetting about the former.
-2003 is almost too nice; he has good relations with all of his family members, is good friends with April and Leatherhead (lukewarm with Casey, it seems), and just seems to be a good guy to be around. When considering all of the events he's forced to endure (such as losing Kirby, being captured and tortured by Triceratons, losing his mind and becoming a monster, witnessing his master become data bits, etc), it's a wonder how this turtle is still sane. It can be assumed, however, that his niceness is a sort of outer shell like Raph's gruffness due to his violent murder of the Shredder during the events of Same As It Never Was. Sadly, we don't get any episodes addressing this matter, although there are many times when his scientific prowess has saved the day, such as when he found a cure for the people of the underground. Although I would love to see more focus on his emotional development, I'm never disappointed by this version (especially since he treats women as people).

This probably looks like a wall of text by now, so I'm stopping here. Have I been too analytical? Am I delving too much into this? Oh well, I guess.

EDIT: I just realized how each paragraph gets longer. This is unintentionally hilarious.

[ABrown]

I just like the 4Kids series more than I like the Nick series. I don't know, I'm sure that there's people out there who like the Nick series more. But for me, I'll take the 4Kids series.

[Foombamaroom]

I sure wish I didn't have to be so hard on him. Usually, Mikey is a character that I am very fond of. Maybe on my second viewing I'll see him differently. He is compassionate with Klunk and almost died for him, well, if things had been what they seemed he would have almost died for him. The last few episodes I have watched have shown him to have more compassion toward others. His caring of poor Donnie in Good Genes was also compassionate.

I think it was the constant bragging about the battle nexus that turned me off. Even when he had to do Grudge Match and Raph, Don and Splinter turned away from him to teach him a lesson, I wanted him to learn his lesson. Leo was fantastic in that episode and stood by him no matter what, good thing too.
Mikey 2003 > Mikey 2012 in my opinion. I'd take a Mikey that possesses common sense over the one who can be just plain stupid at times.

Now my opinion is most likely biased because I practically grew up on 2K3, but I'll try to keep things balanced.

-While I did enjoy 2012 Leo being a fanboy, now that he's grown beyond that I can't help but wonder: what else is there? I mean, there's that thing with Karai, but the show doesn't really show how it affects him as a person.
-While 2003 Leo did get the most focus, it seemed to be for valid reasons (his shot confidence from almost being killed by the Shredder, his frustration about being helpless to do anything during Exodus, being wrong about Karai, etc). It would've been nice if the other turtles also had this amount of focus and character development.

-2012 Mikey is incredibly annoying and stupid. While he does have his moments (such as with Leatherhead), I just wish he was more mature and acted his age (the guy isn't 2 anymore).
-2003 Mikey was arrogant, made pop-culture references, and was quite the scaredy-cat if you'd believe it. I think this has to do with his comfort zone. Despite his drawbacks, he surprising understands a lot about his brother (as revealed in Samurai Tourist and the Battle Nexus fight against Raph). It's hard to say whether or not he acts annoying to mess with his family members.

-2012 Raph used to have interesting characteristics, but those seemed to have faded over time. The episodes that "focus" on him don't leave any lasting effects (such as only being torn up about Slash at the end of the latter's debut episode). The writers also seem to tweak his character to fit the course of whatever episode, as shown in Clash of the Mutanimals, where his temper was overblown for the sake of plot. It seems like no one at Nick knows what to do with him.
-2003 Raph may not have had the same amount of interesting characteristics like his Nick counterpart, but his character and development was very consistent. There are many moments are B-plots showing that he isn't all gruffness, but no A-plots focusing specifically on that. His hatred of bugs and dry sarcasm are entertaining, and he cares deeply about all of his brothers, even Leo. Another difference between 2003 Raph and the 2012 one is his rivalry with Leo, which isn't quite as violent as the Mirage counterparts (but that's for another day).

-2012 Don is a loud, obsessive, arrogant spaz who fell in love with April at first sight and almost became a satellite character because of it. His stalking definitely gives a creepy vibe (thank goodness he stopped it), and his jealousy of Casey seems to turn into an unlikely friendship whenever the writers seem fit. Many times, he has had "funny" little freak-outs that are more annoying than anything else, and has abandoned his brothers to save April (another thing that has improved). Now that I think about it, he's surprisingly similar to 2003's Baxter Stockman when one considers how they act. It's probably just me, however. All of his development primarily focused on April and/or Casey. As of writing this, he has also failed to cure Timothy and Karai, practically forgetting about the former.
-2003 is almost too nice; he has good relations with all of his family members, is good friends with April and Leatherhead (lukewarm with Casey, it seems), and just seems to be a good guy to be around. When considering all of the events he's forced to endure (such as losing Kirby, being captured and tortured by Triceratons, losing his mind and becoming a monster, witnessing his master become data bits, etc), it's a wonder how this turtle is still sane. It can be assumed, however, that his niceness is a sort of outer shell like Raph's gruffness due to his violent murder of the Shredder during the events of Same As It Never Was. Sadly, we don't get any episodes addressing this matter, although there are many times when his scientific prowess has saved the day, such as when he found a cure for the people of the underground. Although I would love to see more focus on his emotional development, I'm never disappointed by this version (especially since he treats women as people).

This probably looks like a wall of text by now, so I'm stopping here. Have I been too analytical? Am I delving too much into this? Oh well, I guess.

EDIT: I just realized how each paragraph gets longer. This is unintentionally hilarious.
Okay, I'm going to respond to each of your analyses based on the Turtles.
Leo: For 2003, it really would've been nice. While it did pay off for Leo, it kind of hindered the other Turtles.
For 2012, I'm fine with Leo's development, since I really like most of his development episodes, but I just think they should lay off. If you haven't noticed, most Shredder episodes are Leo centric.

Mikey: For 2003, I honestly really like this Mikey. He's probably one of my favorite versions of the character, with the exception of IDW and the '90s movie. He's not stupid, he's just a wise-ass and it makes you understand how annoying he can get to Raph.
For 2012, my god, he's unbearable in the first season. He's gotten better since, and I've developed a little bit of a soft spot for him, but he just seems like the odd one out rather than a comic relief.

Raph: 2003 I'm more okay with him not having as many episodes as 2012 Raph. I'll get to what I mean by that in a second. Anyways, 2003 Raph was perfect in my opinion. They did develop him, not as much as they should've, but they did develop him using secondary B plots like you said. By the end of the series, it made him more dimensional, even though he didn't get many centric episodes.
2012 My god, Raph is still just as great as he is before, except he's not. His anger is so inconsistent. If you're going to make him a hothead in all of his centric episodes, make him a hothead in all of the episodes. I liked the fact that he was actually terrified of bugs, but they didn't seem to do much with that. Raph's always been my favorite Turtle, so it's kind of sucky to see him treated like that.

Donnie: 2003 Probably one of my favorite versions of the character, besides the 90s movie. He's just a genuine nice guy and he's necessary to the team. Donnie episodes are very much enjoyable with this character, so he's a great version. However, I feel the writers didn't emphasize how needed he was in the team.
2012 THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE LEGITIMATELY HATED ONE OF THE TURTLES. They OVERLOAD him with plots, forget about the major ones, and then have him flirt with April and rival Casey. No one likes those plots except for the Tumblr fangirls. Any episode that he's not the central focus on, he's fine. Any episode he's the central focus on, there's a good chance I'll never re-watch it.

Summary: I think the 2012 series needs to master its consistency. I prefer the Turtles themselves of 2003 solely because they remained consistent. Whenever they would develop, they'd stay developed. While the Turtles of 2012 are great, it seems like their weakest qualities always show during their centric episodes rather than other episodes that don't focus on them.

[ImmaAxolotl]

Mikey 2003 > Mikey 2012 in my opinion. I'd take a Mikey that possesses common sense over the one who can be just plain stupid at times.


Okay, I'm going to respond to each of your analyses based on the Turtles.
Leo: For 2003, it really would've been nice. While it did pay off for Leo, it kind of hindered the other Turtles.
For 2012, I'm fine with Leo's development, since I really like most of his development episodes, but I just think they should lay off. If you haven't noticed, most Shredder episodes are Leo centric.

Mikey: For 2003, I honestly really like this Mikey. He's probably one of my favorite versions of the character, with the exception of IDW and the '90s movie. He's not stupid, he's just a wise-ass and it makes you understand how annoying he can get to Raph.
For 2012, my god, he's unbearable in the first season. He's gotten better since, and I've developed a little bit of a soft spot for him, but he just seems like the odd one out rather than a comic relief.

Raph: 2003 I'm more okay with him not having as many episodes as 2012 Raph. I'll get to what I mean by that in a second. Anyways, 2003 Raph was perfect in my opinion. They did develop him, not as much as they should've, but they did develop him using secondary B plots like you said. By the end of the series, it made him more dimensional, even though he didn't get many centric episodes.
2012 My god, Raph is still just as great as he is before, except he's not. His anger is so inconsistent. If you're going to make him a hothead in all of his centric episodes, make him a hothead in all of the episodes. I liked the fact that he was actually terrified of bugs, but they didn't seem to do much with that. Raph's always been my favorite Turtle, so it's kind of sucky to see him treated like that.

Donnie: 2003 Probably one of my favorite versions of the character, besides the 90s movie. He's just a genuine nice guy and he's necessary to the team. Donnie episodes are very much enjoyable with this character, so he's a great version. However, I feel the writers didn't emphasize how needed he was in the team.
2012 THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE LEGITIMATELY HATED ONE OF THE TURTLES. They OVERLOAD him with plots, forget about the major ones, and then have him flirt with April and rival Casey. No one likes those plots except for the Tumblr fangirls. Any episode that he's not the central focus on, he's fine. Any episode he's the central focus on, there's a good chance I'll never re-watch it.

Summary: I think the 2012 series needs to master its consistency. I prefer the Turtles themselves of 2003 solely because they remained consistent. Whenever they would develop, they'd stay developed. While the Turtles of 2012 are great, it seems like their weakest qualities always show during their centric episodes rather than other episodes that don't focus on them.

I really like your analyzation of my analyzation, and I agree with everything you say! I was just trying not to be biased for the sake of the 2012 fans.

And yes, I also hate 2012 Don. Everything from his design to his personality annoys me. Making this listy-thing also made me aware of something: if the last two/three seasons of the 2003 show focused exclusively on character development, the show would've been literally perfect.

[Foombamaroom]

I really like your analyzation of my analyzation, and I agree with everything you say! I was just trying not to be biased for the sake of the 2012 fans.

And yes, I also hate 2012 Don. Everything from his design to his personality annoys me. Making this listy-thing also made me aware of something: if the last two/three seasons of the 2003 show focused exclusively on character development, the show would've been literally perfect.

Plus having a little more consistency with the villains (not swapping between Bishop/Shredder and randoms), it would've been the best TMNT series to date.

[Leo656]

I think it was the constant bragging about the battle nexus that turned me off.

Oh, GOD, I wanted to put that little bastard in the Camel Clutch so badly.

Still like him better than Nick Mikey, though. He may have been obnoxious but at least he had a brain.

[pennydreadful]

For my money, I liked 2k3 Mikey, Don, Raph and Leo just fine.

As far as Nick goes, there are things I like and things I don't. I adore Nick's version of Karai and I actually really enjoy Snarkatello (2k12 Don), though I don't care for the love triangle at all. I like Leo in the show and enjoyed Mikey's off-the-wall humor before it became literally all that there was to him as a character. Raph is basically written as a one-dimensional meathead in the series, which I find boring but it's a mixed bag - Nick has made some good changes and some not-so-good ones. I can't stand 2k12 April or Casey, but think that 2k12 Splinter rocks tits (and when my cats are engaged in the bounding-rompus game at ridiculous hours I have been known to stand at the top of the stairs and loudly demand to know "What is going ON IN HERE?) :D

So IMO, 2k3 is better written but there are still a lot of things I like about Seasons 1 and 2 of the Nick show.

[Redeemer]

Too much testosterone. It's what happens when people scare off all the Fem-Nazi Lezbot T-Cest Shipper Trash and they all take to Tumblr instead. :tgrin:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I have not literally and utterly laughed out loud in forever!!!!!

[Leo656]

http://captchamag.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cm-punk-best.0_standard_352.0.jpg

[Shark_Blade]

Nick obviously. There's faaaar more things to dislike in 2k3.

- stupid, annoying, obnoxious Casey.
- too much magic
- too much planetary travel
- too much aliens
- Oroku Saki is actually a disgusting alien slob, ew. Meh what a downer
- Hun is merely a big oaf
- Raph's voice sounds like a 50 years old chain-smoker instead of a teenager
- Don is a goody two-shoes pushover, he's literally a doormat. He severely lack personality, most of the time he's just there or as an inventor to help the plot and that's it.
- Leo is obnoxious, cocky asshole that thinks he's the greatest and all. I greatly dislike this Leo the most compared to any other versions.
- Mikey's tiresome jokes/pun for all occasions...seriously?? Also that constant bringing up about battlenexus. Ugh.


It had some good things like Miyamoto Usagi. But then that cringeworthy Fast Forward happened, and what a mess that Back to the Sewer with wtf digital Shredder and all. Ran out of creativity juice more like it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Oh, GOD, I wanted to put that little bastard in the Camel Clutch so badly.

Still like him better than Nick Mikey, though. He may have been obnoxious but at least he had a brain.


I'll agree with the second part, at least. However, I fully understood why he was so obnoxious about the Battle Nexus, and I felt it made sense for him to act that way- he was rubbing it in to his brothers who had written him off as any sort of contender before the tournament started, and then when he WON none of them could believe it- particularly Raph, who had been the MOST disparaging of him. His win in Grudge Match only proved his win was legitimate, and he laid off after that, because he no longer had anything to prove. I liked that little bit of character development, because it showed how insecure he was deep down, when usually he ACTED more cocky in public.

Also- his "screaming like a girl" thing- anyone but me ever notice it was usually followed by a "retreat", only for him to come back and whoop a$$ on someone when they took the bait? Anyone? I found that hilarious.

Nick obviously. There's faaaar more things to dislike in 2k3.

- stupid, annoying, obnoxious Casey.
- too much magic
- too much planetary travel
- too much aliens
- Oroku Saki is actually a disgusting alien slob, ew. Meh what a downer
- Hun is merely a big oaf
- Raph's voice sounds like a 50 years old chain-smoker instead of a teenager
- Don is a goody two-shoes pushover, he's literally a doormat. He severely lack personality, most of the time he's just there or as an inventor to help the plot and that's it.
- Leo is obnoxious, cocky asshole that thinks he's the greatest and all. I greatly dislike this Leo the most compared to any other versions.
- Mikey's tiresome jokes/pun for all occasions...seriously?? Also that constant bringing up about battlenexus. Ugh.


It had some good things like Miyamoto Usagi. But then that cringeworthy Fast Forward happened, and what a mess that Back to the Sewer with wtf digital Shredder and all. Ran out of creativity juice more like it.


And this is from a guy who LOVES the 2014 movie. (I "liked" it, but.... well, just wish it wasn't so darn full of plot-holes and bad dialog.)

[Shark_Blade]

Nothing wrong with liking 2k14. I like it despite the flaws and it made $1/2 billion so far. :tcool:

But this is Nick and 2k3, so discuss only those two.

[Jester]

And this is from a guy who LOVES the 2014 movie. (I "liked" it, but.... well, just wish it wasn't so darn full of plot-holes and bad dialog.)
My thoughts exactly. 4Kids TMNT has it's issues (MIKEY) but it's still miles away better than Liebesman's "opus".

[Leo656]

it's still miles away better than Liebesman's "opus".

To be fair, so is the Black Death.

[Shark_Blade]

I'm glad Nick changed Hun into Bruce Lee, and IDW also made Hun a more appealing character as Casey's father.

Anything is better than 2k3 Hun who is pretty pointless as a henchman. Replace him with Shredder's Elite guard and no one'd even miss him.

[Foombamaroom]

To be fair, so is the Black Death.

^DYING AT THIS.


Honestly, TMNT 2012 has a lot of flaws, but I don't see them when I'm watching. I usually see them when I discuss the show. The new movie, on the other hand, well, I had to walk out of the theatre when I saw that Splinter raised them from a book. I come back in, and I see the walking Iron Throne fighting the rat.

[Shark_Blade]

Then it's settled. Nick is superior than 2k3 in most things. ;) :D

Also 2k3 origin, a rat copying its owner and became a ninja master? Lame and awfully bad.

[Leo656]

It's "settled' that most of the room consistently ignores you and talks around your perimeter while you consistently fail to notice because you have no self-awareness. :lol:


Honestly, TMNT 2012 has a lot of flaws, but I don't see them when I'm watching. I usually see them when I discuss the show. The new movie, on the other hand, well, I had to walk out of the theatre when I saw that Splinter raised them from a book. I come back in, and I see the walking Iron Throne fighting the rat.

Oh, gosh, I'm the same way with shows or movies. I can absolutely sit and enjoy a movie as I'm watching it, get engaged, kind of let things that annoy me slip as I'm more concerned with watching it play out to the end, and then walk away feeling fully satisfied. But that's never stopped me from also going, "Hey, y'know what was f*cked up, though?" later on. You do tend to dwell on things more when you're discussing them, rather than experiencing them in the moment. Just like in the moment, it's easier to disregard those flaws and simply roll with it.

It's when people hold up something full of cracks and refuse to admit it HAS any flaws, or work overtime to defend those flaws, that it drives me flippin' bananas. Some things are fun but don't hold up under scrutiny. Some things seem unimpressive at first glance but actually have lots of layers that you notice over time and analyzing of it. And some things are just plain awful. The wisdom is in knowing the difference. :tsmile:

[Shark_Blade]

It's settled because it's true and my points and others' in favor of Nick are valid. :tcool:

Time to close this thread. 2k3 discussion please go to your own forum.

[Leo656]

Hah. Wow. :lol:

[Shark_Blade]

I realized I never read the OP. He didn't seem to provoke a 2k3 vs Nick blood battle, just comparing between them so... Carry on. :P

And stop dragging the fabulous 2k14, it's off topic and annoying okay kids? [/Whoopi Bernadette style]

[Leo656]

When someone drops a nuclear bomb, people can't just wish the fallout away, nor ignore it by walking a couple blocks over.

That thing happened, and we all let it happen, and now it's going to contaminate every millimeter of everything it touches, for years to come. They don't even have the courtesy to ship the DVD with a goddamn Hazmat sticker. It's like they WANT people to get f***ing tumors.

[Amaranthus]

Then it's settled. Nick is superior than 2k3 in most things. ;) :D

Also 2k3 origin, a rat copying its owner and became a ninja master? Lame and awfully bad.

Just because a lot of people agree on something doesn't make it true.

[Shark_Blade]

It doesn't matter because it's not about what's better or best. This thread purpose is just for the sake of comparing both of them, so continue to compare and analyze.

[victory_angel]

Then it's settled. Nick is superior than 2k3 in most things. ;) :D

Also 2k3 origin, a rat copying its owner and became a ninja master? Lame and awfully bad.

Splinter also mimicked Hamato Yoshi in the Mirage comic and the 1990's movie. So that's not really the 2k3's idea alone.

Learning ninjitsu from a completely random book was the lamest origin. If it had been explained that maybe the book had jogged memories of a past life as Hamato Yoshi then yes it would at least make some sense.

As for this thread.

Leo 2003: I found his character well used. Though he did get grating when he was having his hissy fits during season four. But when you think about it he was just scared because they had all been defeated by the Shredder and the only option was to take out themselves along with the Shredder. And the fact that even had to be an option at all is what bothered him because it made him feel he had failed everyone as a brother and leader.

Leo 2012: Young and growing into his role as a leader. He still has a long way to go before he is a truly competent leader. He wants whats he feels best for the safety of his family and protection of the city. Unfortunately he doesn't always consider brother's strengths or even what they have to offer towards the mission which has caused issues with them at times.

Raph 2003: Raph is certainly one of the more volatile members of the team. Deep down under his gruff exterior he does care deeply about each of his bros and other innocent people. Even though his greatest fear is that he would become his worst enemy. His temper and impatience also lead to impulsive and and rash decisions that can put himself and his bros in danger. However whenever the **** goes down, he is one bro you can count on to have your back at all times.

Raph 2012: I do admit 2012 Raph does rub me the wrong way at times because of how much of a bully he can be. He does classify himself as the normal one of his family and thus acts like a straight man to the rest of his brothers. His issues do seem to stem from insecurities such as Leo being the favored student, Donnie being the genius and doctor of the group. Mikey being the most innocent of the group. His temper sometimes causes him to make mountains out of mole hills at times. There is also a gentler side to him which doesn't always appear on the surface but as you get to know him you do see it more and more.

Donnie 2003: Donnie has been my favorite in every incarnation. This version of Donnie is one of my more prominently liked ones. He doesn't make a big deal about his intellect or how he's smarter then the rest of his bros, he knows what he has to offer the team and doesn't treat it like it makes him better then everyone else. He's more of pacifist then rest of his bros but he would fight tooth and nail and even give his own life to protect the world from people like the Shredder. He does go through some traumatic events that makes you wonder how he stayed sane. The same as it never was event should have caused at least a few issues if not nightmares. But then again, the 2k3 didn't really focus on the affectionate moments between the turtles.

Donnie 2012: This incarnations has the added bonus of giving Donnie a personality. And with it a love interest in April. In previous incarnations he did have a lot of focus, but beyond that he was just the smart guy. I personally don't see Donnie's feelings for April as obnoxious. I see it more as a bi product of his upbringing. Typically in life we are around both genders, we generally have a mother and father, we attends school if not society in a co-ed setting. Donnie on the other hand has lived underground his entire life in the company of four other males. The only real exposure to females he has had before April is what was on TV. So we can't expect him to understand or know what it's like to be around someone of the opposite gender let alone be in love with said person. It's only when he's there for her just as her friend that his feelings for her truly shine through. Typically when it does come to Donnie's relationship there are people who like it because it's different. But people also hate it for that same reason.


No real thoughts as far as Mikey at this time.

[aliena]

Now my opinion is most likely biased because I practically grew up on 2K3, but I'll try to keep things balanced.

-While I did enjoy 2012 Leo being a fanboy, now that he's grown beyond that I can't help but wonder: what else is there? I mean, there's that thing with Karai, but the show doesn't really show how it affects him as a person.
-While 2003 Leo did get the most focus, it seemed to be for valid reasons (his shot confidence from almost being killed by the Shredder, his frustration about being helpless to do anything during Exodus, being wrong about Karai, etc). It would've been nice if the other turtles also had this amount of focus and character development.

-2012 Mikey is incredibly annoying and stupid. While he does have his moments (such as with Leatherhead), I just wish he was more mature and acted his age (the guy isn't 2 anymore).
-2003 Mikey was arrogant, made pop-culture references, and was quite the scaredy-cat if you'd believe it. I think this has to do with his comfort zone. Despite his drawbacks, he surprising understands a lot about his brother (as revealed in Samurai Tourist and the Battle Nexus fight against Raph). It's hard to say whether or not he acts annoying to mess with his family members.

-2012 Raph used to have interesting characteristics, but those seemed to have faded over time. The episodes that "focus" on him don't leave any lasting effects (such as only being torn up about Slash at the end of the latter's debut episode). The writers also seem to tweak his character to fit the course of whatever episode, as shown in Clash of the Mutanimals, where his temper was overblown for the sake of plot. It seems like no one at Nick knows what to do with him.
-2003 Raph may not have had the same amount of interesting characteristics like his Nick counterpart, but his character and development was very consistent. There are many moments are B-plots showing that he isn't all gruffness, but no A-plots focusing specifically on that. His hatred of bugs and dry sarcasm are entertaining, and he cares deeply about all of his brothers, even Leo. Another difference between 2003 Raph and the 2012 one is his rivalry with Leo, which isn't quite as violent as the Mirage counterparts (but that's for another day).

-2012 Don is a loud, obsessive, arrogant spaz who fell in love with April at first sight and almost became a satellite character because of it. His stalking definitely gives a creepy vibe (thank goodness he stopped it), and his jealousy of Casey seems to turn into an unlikely friendship whenever the writers seem fit. Many times, he has had "funny" little freak-outs that are more annoying than anything else, and has abandoned his brothers to save April (another thing that has improved). Now that I think about it, he's surprisingly similar to 2003's Baxter Stockman when one considers how they act. It's probably just me, however. All of his development primarily focused on April and/or Casey. As of writing this, he has also failed to cure Timothy and Karai, practically forgetting about the former.
-2003 is almost too nice; he has good relations with all of his family members, is good friends with April and Leatherhead (lukewarm with Casey, it seems), and just seems to be a good guy to be around. When considering all of the events he's forced to endure (such as losing Kirby, being captured and tortured by Triceratons, losing his mind and becoming a monster, witnessing his master become data bits, etc), it's a wonder how this turtle is still sane. It can be assumed, however, that his niceness is a sort of outer shell like Raph's gruffness due to his violent murder of the Shredder during the events of Same As It Never Was. Sadly, we don't get any episodes addressing this matter, although there are many times when his scientific prowess has saved the day, such as when he found a cure for the people of the underground. Although I would love to see more focus on his emotional development, I'm never disappointed by this version (especially since he treats women as people).

This probably looks like a wall of text by now, so I'm stopping here. Have I been too analytical? Am I delving too much into this? Oh well, I guess.

EDIT: I just realized how each paragraph gets longer. This is unintentionally hilarious.

Maybe you just had a lot more to say about sweet Donnie. :) Speaking of Donnie, after having watched through season four, I'm almost feeling like he is lukewarm with Casey due to being jealous of his time with April. I'm not saying that he has a romantic crush on her, but he has a connection to her through their common science traits. There are times when I feel he doesn't like others taking her away from him. Maybe this is why they had Donnie like April in 2012.

You have nailed so many of the same feelings I was having. 2012 Mikey acting too young for his age, 2012 Leo losing his fanboy innocence, 2003 Donnie treating women as people. 2012 Donnie acting like Baxter, I hadn't seen that before now, but it's so true. Wishing 2003 Donnie could have gotten some emotional development after all he's been through. 2003 Raph's toned down rivalry with Leo (so far, I'm not through all the seasons yet) and his great love for his brothers. I'm also liking his bonding with Joi in the episode arc I'm currently watching. They are really good together. :) Sorry to throw in some shipping.

[aliena]

Oh, GOD, I wanted to put that little bastard in the Camel Clutch so badly.

Still like him better than Nick Mikey, though. He may have been obnoxious but at least he had a brain.

If they were to give Nick Mikey a brain, he would improve so much. That's what I do like about 2003 Mikey. BTW, when I first heard Mikey's voice in the Nick show I almost didn't keep watching I disliked it so much. I remember thinking it had ruined the entire character, but then it grew on me.

[Bombshell]

I don't have much to say on the subject (which is why I'm posting, of course!). The previous comparisons are spot on.

The major difference I see between the two shows regarding the turtles is the fact that the y2k turtles seemed to already know what they were doing while the Nick turtles are fumbling about and still learning as they go. I like the Nick turtles due to the fact that they act more like a normal, dysfunctional family with a lot of sibling interactions.

Nick turtles don't go too deep into emotional issues, which I wish they would seeing as there is a LOT to develop from that. All and anything that happens to them can be shrugged off and forgotten, where as the y2k turtles actually address a lot of things. I feel I have to watch Nick for the general story and then surf Deviantart for all the feels and development.

I am a sucker (one huge sucker) for animation. Good animation is like crack to me. When the y2k turtles came out, I was addicted not only because they were turtles, but because the turtles were animated and doing things animated turtles hadn't before (battles, actually hitting things, some true martial art moves, etc).

When Nick came out with their turtles, it just got better. I found myself rewinding and slowmo-ing certain scenes just to watch a martial art move in the animated sequence.

The Nick turtles is something I can throw on and instantly relate to my other siblings with because even though they aren't tmnt fans, how the turtles relate to one another is so blatantly similar to the way we grew up that it makes them laugh, too.

[ssjup81]

Interesting thread. One day I'll check out the 2k3 series...again. The one ep I saw in its original run didn't pull me in because it seemed like they were taking themselves too seriously, but that's a flaw on my part having grown up with the OT series which had action and comedy.

Anyway, one day I'll check it out.

[Leofan26]

I loved the 2003 series more. Even though the first few seasons focused more on Leo, it knew how to keep the arcs focused instead of jumping around like the 2012 series does. Say for example, let's compare the Karai arc between both versions, they didn't keep jumping around and forgetting the plot few episodes. They'd do filler episodes in between the arc when you really just want to see it focused on not focus on the arc every now and than and never brought up till the arc continues. That was an annoyance of mine on the 2012 series.

And than the character development, instead of two steps forward for every one they'll take two steps backwards. Leo is the only character the writers have been consistent with, course I'm not saying the 2003 series was perfect with that but in my opinion it did a slightly better job with it. Raph is one I can think of that falls into this category with the 2012 series, one moment they'll act like he's over his anger issues and is improving than another episode or two later he's back to being a bullie and jealous.

Animation, depends. I think the Animation matches the shows. 2003 series is darker and needed that type of style. 2012 series has lighter Animation but can make it darker when the show is, Leo V.S Shredder round 1.

Over all, I think the 2003 series has better quality.

[aliena]

Interesting thread. One day I'll check out the 2k3 series...again. The one ep I saw in its original run didn't pull me in because it seemed like they were taking themselves too seriously, but that's a flaw on my part having grown up with the OT series which had action and comedy.

Anyway, one day I'll check it out.

I will admit that I struggled through season one and almost quit watching a few times, but then season two started up and I really began to binge the episodes until all hours of the night. Season two and three are really amazing with some of my favorite turtle episodes out all the incarnations.

I hope one day you get through the hard not so flavorful outer shell and get to the juicy goodness inside because it is so worth it. IMO anyway. You might not feel the same way. :) It's worth the risk though.

[Powder]

Interesting thread. One day I'll check out the 2k3 series...again. The one ep I saw in its original run didn't pull me in because it seemed like they were taking themselves too seriously, but that's a flaw on my part having grown up with the OT series which had action and comedy.

Anyway, one day I'll check it out.

That's one of my biggest complaints with the 4kids series. Even though it's based on Mirage, which could be very dark & brooding at times, this show was just melodramatic for most of that. More emo than insecure, more whiny than pissed off, etc. For that it would sometimes border on laughable having anime dub voice actors & their limitations with censorship. Still worth a watch in full, it has some really good moments, nice animation, & plots that pay off.