Turtles Forever Questions

[Yabuturtle]

There were always things that bothered me about this movie. I think the movie was alright, even though I think the 1987 characters a bit out of character and some parts didn't make much sense but there were questions I had that's been bugging me.

1. Does Hun have super strength? When he first fights the Turtles we saw a wall crash onto him which should have crushed him. But I guess it can be forgiven as sometimes the Turtles have had Loony Tunes endurance in the past but it always stroked me as odd. I ask because I don't have extensive knowledge of the 2003 cartoon.

2. Why do the Mirage version of the Turtles not do anything when the Technodrome is destroying the city, as one of them notices it when Donatello talks about it and said that it's been doing that all night. This kind of shows that the mirage Turtles are the most irresponsible version of all. That's what they make them look like. What were they doing the entire time? Where are all the people anyway? Did they evacuate the city? No one is there except for The Turtles and Mirage Shredder.

3. 03 Shredder planned to find the source of the Turtles and destroy them. Destroying the Mirage Turtles would wipe out Turtles in every dimension so that way he could take control of everything with no resistance. But I don't understand. When he tries to kill the Mirage Turtles, everything starts getting erased. So killing them wipes out all of reality? Why is that? I thought getting rid of them would just destroy the Turtles everywhere, not wipe out entire universes. For that matter, all of them cringe in pain when 03 Shredder is squeezing them, even Splinter and Shredder despite not being the Turtles, but if everyone is connected to the Mirage Turtles, why doesn't 03 Shredder show pain when he's squeezing the Turtles in his hand?

4. Also shouldn't 03 Shredder and 1987 Shredder be dead? I thought Mirage Shredder in the movie was knocked off of a building so shouldn't every Shredder be dead? Unless he wasn't dead at the time.

5. How did Karai even know where 03 Shredder was when 03 Shredder was teleported to Technodrome? How did she know where to find him or was able to travel so quickly?

[HotJuicyBurgers]

There were always things that bothered me about this movie. I think the movie was alright, even though I think the 1987 characters a bit out of character and some parts didn't make much sense but there were questions I had that's been bugging me.

1. Does Hun have super strength? When he first fights the Turtles we saw a wall crash onto him which should have crushed him. But I guess it can be forgiven as sometimes the Turtles have had Loony Tunes endurance in the past but it always stroked me as odd. I ask because I don't have extensive knowledge of the 2003 cartoon.

2. Why do the Mirage version of the Turtles not do anything when the Technodrome is destroying the city, as one of them notices it when Donatello talks about it and said that it's been doing that all night. This kind of shows that the mirage Turtles are the most irresponsible version of all. That's what they make them look like. What were they doing the entire time? Where are all the people anyway? Did they evacuate the city? No one is there except for The Turtles and Mirage Shredder.

3. 03 Shredder planned to find the source of the Turtles and destroy them. Destroying the Mirage Turtles would wipe out Turtles in every dimension so that way he could take control of everything with no resistance. But I don't understand. When he tries to kill the Mirage Turtles, everything starts getting erased. So killing them wipes out all of reality? Why is that? I thought getting rid of them would just destroy the Turtles everywhere, not wipe out entire universes. For that matter, all of them cringe in pain when 03 Shredder is squeezing them, even Splinter and Shredder despite not being the Turtles, but if everyone is connected to the Mirage Turtles, why doesn't 03 Shredder show pain when he's squeezing the Turtles in his hand?

4. Also shouldn't 03 Shredder and 1987 Shredder be dead? I thought Mirage Shredder in the movie was knocked off of a building so shouldn't every Shredder be dead? Unless he wasn't dead at the time.

5. How did Karai even know where 03 Shredder was when 03 Shredder was teleported to Technodrome? How did she know where to find him or was able to travel so quickly?

3.) I understand the concept being that if the Mirage turtles had never existed, nothing else would have ever existed, but as for why 2k3 shredder didn't feel pain... I'm gonna go with plot hole

[Yabuturtle]

3.) I understand the concept being that if the Mirage turtles had never existed, nothing else would have ever existed, but as for why 2k3 shredder didn't feel pain... I'm gonna go with plot hole

I just thought it's strange that if all 4 die, everything is wiped out? The original plan was to destroy them and every turtle from every dimension is destroyed? But what about Mirage Shredder? Should every Shredder be dead if he's gone? We saw him fall off of a building. In fact should everyone in the multiverse be dead if even one Mirage character is dead though? It makes more sense that every Turtle ever where would be destroyed, not every single life form.

Plus it goes against his original plan of ruling everything, and then I guess, he goes insane, and decides to destroy them anyway, even if it means killing him in the process.

Also Are the 1987 turtles thieves? When they meet their 03 counterparts, they ignore them to go get lunch (which is strange because I don't know about you, but if I met a parallel version of myself, lunch wouldn't be on my mind)) but they stroll through town without disguises which is also out of character and try to order a pizza, and naturally the pizza chef runs away, so the Turtles just grab whatever pizza they can find and not pay for it. Sounds like stealing to me.

[Desslok]

1. There have been numerous times throughout the show that Hun displayed freakish feats of strength. Apparently he's literally tougher than a brick wall.

2. This is a very good question. They seem a little nonchalant about the whole situation of mass destruction at first and I can't explain why.

3. This is a question answered in the uncut version of the film (which if you have not seen I suggest tracking it down because it is much better). One of the deleted scenes shows the Utrom Shredder start being erased and he hesitates for a moment before deciding that even his own sacrifice is worth it to destroy the turtles. So yes, he was quite insane.

4. I'm not sure Mirage Shredder was actually killed there, just incapacitated in a rather humorous way.

5. When she gave him worm surgery I bet she had him chipped, lol. :lol:
Honestly though, this was just a convenient plot device to get Karai quickly inserted into the story.

[Yabuturtle]

1. There have been numerous times throughout the show that Hun displayed freakish feats of strength. Apparently he's literally tougher than a brick wall.

2. This is a very good question. They seem a little nonchalant about the whole situation of mass destruction at first and I can't explain why.

3. This is a question answered in the uncut version of the film (which if you have not seen I suggest tracking it down because it is much better). One of the deleted scenes shows the Utrom Shredder start being erased and he hesitates for a moment before deciding that even his own sacrifice is worth it to destroy the turtles. So yes, he was quite insane.

4. I'm not sure Mirage Shredder was actually killed there, just incapacitated in a rather humorous way.

5. When she gave him worm surgery I bet she had him chipped, lol. :lol:
Honestly though, this was just a convenient plot device to get Karai quickly inserted into the story.

I understand that Shredder was willing to kill himself but I find it strange that all life depends on these Turtles and felt it made more sense if it would wipe out every turtle every where, not wipe out entire planets and universes. Shredder HAD to be insane. lol He kept Bebop and Rocksteady around and had them tie up Krang and Shredder when they annoyed him, even though Bebop caused 03 Shredder's demise but why would he keep those mutants around, when Krang and 1987 Shredder are more intelligent, competent and dangerous? He never even attempted to work with them.

I find it strange that he had Karai would criticize Dimension X technology, when 03 Shredder would never even be there if it wasn't for 87 Shredder's Teleporter, would never have gotten his new improved android body and would never even have had access to other dimensions without the Transdimensional Portal.

I also found it disappointing that 87 Casey Jones never showed up, or the Rock Soldiers, or Mirage Splinter. Mirage Shredder was taken out in a funny way but it was disappointing to see him go like that. This is the original Shredder after all. The 87 villains attacking April are weird? I don't recall them fighting mutated pizzas, banana or Leprechauns before. It would have been nice to see other villains we knew of like Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter, Dregg, Kronos, ect. Which reminds me what happened to 87 April? We saw a mutated banana creature grab her and took her off screen and we never saw or heard from her again in the movie.

[plastroncafe]

The Mirage Turtles aren't crime fighters, they're agents of revenge.
They don't care about the Technodrome because it has nothing to do with their mission, which is to kill Shredder.

[Yabuturtle]

The Mirage Turtles aren't crime fighters, they're agents of revenge.
They don't care about the Technodrome because it has nothing to do with their mission, which is to kill Shredder.

I thought the Mirage Turtles fought crime in the comics. Nevertheless, that shouldn't make them totally apathetic of the situation when considering it was destroying everything in the city, the city that they and their master Splinter live in and everyone including their master, was in danger from this Technodrome.

The whole line makes them totally apathetic and out of character to me.

[plastroncafe]

That scene is from the very first issue, when all we know about them is that they've only recently been going topside for training missions to prepare themselves to confront Shredder.

With the exception of Raph and Casey being vigilantes, I don't know that I've ever gotten the impression that the turtles went out in search of evil doers to thwart. I always just figured that they went out on training runs, and if they happen to find people to "spar" against...well all the better.

But yeah, for the most part the Mirage Turtles are far more removed from humanity than they are in the Fred Wolf show.

Plus, I think their ambivalence in Turtles Forever is an extra dig at the style Eastman and Laird were going for with issue 1, ie: taking Miller's Stuff up to 11.

[Yabuturtle]

That scene is from the very first issue, when all we know about them is that they've only recently been going topside for training missions to prepare themselves to confront Shredder.

With the exception of Raph and Casey being vigilantes, I don't know that I've ever gotten the impression that the turtles went out in search of evil doers to thwart. I always just figured that they went out on training runs, and if they happen to find people to "spar" against...well all the better.

But yeah, for the most part the Mirage Turtles are far more removed from humanity than they are in the Fred Wolf show.

Plus, I think their ambivalence in Turtles Forever is an extra dig at the style Eastman and Laird were going for with issue 1, ie: taking Miller's Stuff up to 11.

They are more removed from humanity than the other versions but they aren't cold heartless and irresponsible, and that scene made it seem that way. But let's say their only motive was revenge, it doesn't make sense to let a planet destroying machine run amok and let it put everyone in danger, including themselves and their master. It's just common sense to go after it, something they didn't display.

Did Mirage Shredder die in the movie? It seemed like it as he fell quite a distance, and I thought he died in the comic as well. By doing that, every version of Shredder should be dead, including the 03 Shredder.

[Candy Kappa]

What could the #1 Mirage Turtles have done anyway? They have no idea how to tackle a suped up Technodrome.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

They are more removed from humanity than the other versions but they aren't cold heartless and irresponsible, and that scene made it seem that way. But let's say their only motive was revenge, it doesn't make sense to let a planet destroying machine run amok and let it put everyone in danger, including themselves and their master. It's just common sense to go after it, something they didn't display.

Did Mirage Shredder die in the movie? It seemed like it as he fell quite a distance, and I thought he died in the comic as well. By doing that, every version of Shredder should be dead, including the 03 Shredder.

I think you might be putting a bit too much thought into it.

As mentioned earlier, in the very first issue, their sole mission is to kill shredder. They did not receive much characterization until the next issues. And the mirage turtles portrayed in turtles forever are simply based on the first issue.

They would probably be more aptly called, First issue mirage turtles maybe.

[plastroncafe]

Or, if we're being pedantic about it: What a technodrome even is.
It's not like those exist in that world to begin with.

I think he just falls into a dumpster, comically...complete with alley cat scream. Because, well the 80s turtles are there.

Mirage Shredder isn't as important a figure as he is anywhere else. It's the turtles that hold the universe together, not Shredder.

I mean...fanwank at your leisure, lord knows I do.

[Yabuturtle]

What could the #1 Mirage Turtles have done anyway? They have no idea how to tackle a suped up Technodrome.

Well they obviously did something about it, but only after the 87 turtles and 03 Turtles talked about it. We saw them clearly try to do something about it and didn't seem to hesitate either. Or hesitate taking on a gigantic Shredder whose hands could shapeshift into weapons. They just seemed apathetic about it, or lazy.

[Yabuturtle]

Or, if we're being pedantic about it: What a technodrome even is.
It's not like those exist in that world to begin with.

I think he just falls into a dumpster, comically...complete with alley cat scream. Because, well the 80s turtles are there.

Mirage Shredder isn't as important a figure as he is anywhere else. It's the turtles that hold the universe together, not Shredder.

I mean...fanwank at your leisure, lord knows I do.

Technodromes don't exist. Neither do mutant turtles or rats...so...what's your point?

Shredder has importance as he's the main villain in just about every incarnation, but the thing is, the 03 Shredder mentioned that destroying the Mirage Turtles would destroy turtles everywhere. By that logic, Mirage Shredder being dead should kill off every Shredder. If this is based on the 1st issue, Mirage Shredder should be dead, and every Shredder should not exist.

It seems weird that killing 4 turtles unravel the very fabric of space and time. I feel like it'd make much more sense for it to kill every turtle everywhere, not wipe out the multiverse. but speaking about dimensions being destroyed, would Dimension X be destroyed? That's an entirely different dimension not connected to the Turtles Universe. That's why Shredder couldn't find a counterpart of Krang because Krang was from a totally different dimension where the Turtles weren't around.

[plastroncafe]

That world, not this world, making my point:
How would the Mirage Turtles know a technodrome if they'd never seen/heard of one before.

[John Pannozzi]

IIRC the Director's Cut of Turtles Forever explained how Karai tracked Shredder and showed Shredder in pain as he crushed the Mirage Turtles.

Have you watched the director's cut of Turtles Forever, yabuturtle? (FYI, the director's cut is 78 minutes long, whereas the TV version was only 70 minutes long, and the American DVD version is 73 minutes long.)

[Yabuturtle]

That world, not this world, making my point:
How would the Mirage Turtles know a technodrome if they'd never seen/heard of one before.

They wouldn't know what it is. But does it matter? They saw this round thing destroying everything in sight, and knew of it's existence for a little while as one of them said "It's been doing that all night." Whether they knew what a technodrome was doesn't matter. It presented a danger to everyone.

[Powder]

They are more removed from humanity than the other versions but they aren't cold heartless and irresponsible, and that scene made it seem that way. But let's say their only motive was revenge, it doesn't make sense to let a planet destroying machine run amok and let it put everyone in danger, including themselves and their master. It's just common sense to go after it, something they didn't display.

Everything PlastronCafe said so far is true, in addition to that, the Mirage turtles were very young at the time. They had no human friends, & no feelings towards humans or the well being of their society, as it was not their own. As far as they knew, this kind of thing could be happening all the time, leave it to the cops to handle. They weren't in danger because they can bounce from roof to roof & spent most of their day in the sewer, presumably.

& with all due respect, you're reading way too much into all of this.

It's a cartoon/comic. Things will be off, inconsistent, weird, etc.

[Yabuturtle]

Everything PlastronCafe said so far is true, in addition to that, the Mirage turtles were very young at the time. They had no human friends, & no feelings towards humans or the well being of their society, as it was not their own. As far as they knew, this kind of thing could be happening all the time, leave it to the cops to handle. They weren't in danger because they can bounce from roof to roof & spent most of their day in the sewer, presumably.

& with all due respect, you're reading way too much into all of this.

It's a cartoon/comic. Things will be off, inconsistent, weird, etc.

I saw the Director's cut and while 03 Shredder was in pain at first when he crushed the Mirage Turtles, he stopped and then started crushing them again, but this time, laughing, while everyone else was cringing in pain? I would think if anyone was going to cringe in pain, it'd be the Turtles, not 87 Shredder and especially not Krang since he was from an entirely different dimension not related to the Turtles.

I know the Mirage Turtles aren't the friendliest but neither should they lack common sense. They knew of this Technodrome and it'd be naive to assume that the cops should handle it. Everyone was in danger. You say they can jump rooftops? This Technodrome was destroying rooftops, buildings, roads, ect. 03 Shredder would have eventually find them in the sewer.

This isn't a nitpick, it's quite out of character, a moment that shows not only apathy, but lack of responsibility and common sense on their part. Of course there are other major parts that were wrong with the movie, and this was one of them. Not a bad movie, but it had problems.

[Powder]

The film exaggerates both the Mirage & Fred Wolf turtles' personalities, that's the point. They're being both homaged & parodied. To try & make sense of these caricatures is futile.
The Mirage turtles aren't wholly apathetic the the plight of man & the Fred Wolf Turtles don't weep in fear & have group hugs in victory. So...

[Yabuturtle]

The film exaggerates both the Mirage & Fred Wolf turtles' personalities, that's the point. They're being both homaged & parodied. To try & make sense of these caricatures is futile.
The Mirage turtles aren't wholly apathetic the the plight of man & the Fred Wolf Turtles don't weep in fear & have group hugs in victory. So...

I guess if they were going for that I can understand. I guess really The Mirage turtles and 87 turtles are almost somewhat like a parody. Although the 03 Turtles seem rather in character. Hmmm.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I'm not really sure what else you want to hear. You want us to explain a cartoon, that is parodying other cartoons. Sometimes you just need to let it go and move on with your life

[Yabuturtle]

I'm not really sure what else you want to hear. You want us to explain a cartoon, that is parodying other cartoons. Sometimes you just need to let it go and move on with your life

Just answers to these questions that's all. I know it's a cartoon but there's no harm in trying to figure out this stuff. It's not like I'm spending days on this project trying to figure out why they do what they do. I'm just curious really.

[ABrown]

IIRC the Director's Cut of Turtles Forever explained how Karai tracked Shredder and showed Shredder in pain as he crushed the Mirage Turtles.

Have you watched the director's cut of Turtles Forever, yabuturtle? (FYI, the director's cut is 78 minutes long, whereas the TV version was only 70 minutes long, and the American DVD version is 73 minutes long.)

FYI, that's not the "director's cut". That is the regular movie! The version that aired on television is edited for to fit into either a 90 minute broadcast, or 3-30 minute broadcasts.

[MrPliggins]

For #4: The Turtles dying in the Mirage universe (in #1) would mean that neither cartoon universe would ever be made. Mirage Shredder dying doesn't matter, because the Mirage universe goes on. Mirage Shredder actually did die in the first issue, and as you can see, '87 and '03 Shredders do exist.

Basically, the entire "universe" is the show. The show is being erased since Turtles never got past issue 1 of Mirage.

[John Pannozzi]

FYI, that's not the "director's cut". That is the regular movie! The version that aired on television is edited for to fit into either a 90 minute broadcast, or 3-30 minute broadcasts.

Sorry, got the info from Turtlepedia.

I'd recommend that yabuturtle ask Peter Laird and Lloyd Goldfine about his TF questions. Laird can be reached at his blog, not sure how to contact Goldfine.

[DevilSpooky]

It's really easy, killing the Turtles means no other Turtle Universe's will ever be created, because there would be nothing else after the first comic, because they are the main characters, they are the reason why the other versions/universes where created, they where the first ones, everything else was created by making different versions of them, think of this as in the real world, they are the source, remove them and there's nothing else to adapt from.

And they didn't do anything because it wasn't their problem, they where trained for one reason and one reason alone, to kill Shredder, nothing more, human world, human problem, the only thing they knew was that they had to kill Shredder, everything else was beyond them.

And Shredder dies in the very first comic anyway, killing him in here would change nothing, because he would be dead by the end of the day anyway, that's why killing him wouldn't affect anyone else, that is, if he did die anyway.