Was the FW cartoon the least flawed of the three shows?

[Mugic]

I notice complain about the 2k3 series having horrible voices, Utom Shredder, and FF/BttS and the Nick Toon suffering from plot amnisia, poor character development and too many mutants but i never see anyone here bashing the OT that much compared to the other two, does that make it the least flawed of the three shows and if not what were the flaws to the OT?

[TurtleTitan97]

The OT has its fair share of flaws, just like every other animated series does. To me, the main flaws would be:

1) Repetitive story
2) Lack of actual story arcs
3) Not much character development for the main characters
4) Too much slapstick
5) Lack of action sequences

That's all I can think of for now.

[Autbot_Benz]

Plenty of people pick on the OT

1. Too Goofy & Light hearted
2. Inept Villains

[CyberCubed]

I think this thread should be locked because its going to lead to a typical bash-fest when the usual haters of the Nick, 2k3, or OT people show up.

[Powder]

It's not the least flawed, it's just the oldest. People have picked it apart since like 2000 when this forum started. Not much use treading the same ground.

[snake]

I honestly think the OT is the most flawed. I enjoy it in it's own right, but I can only imagine the pain Peter and Kevin went through watching anything post season 1.

[Cryomancer]

Yeah the old show is pretty much a running checklist of Things That Can Go Wrong in cartoons.

Season 1 was great, everything else is...inconsistent to say the least.

[neatoman]

PVVDCOWhpE0

I'm pretty sure that if anything, the Fred Wolf cartoon would be the most flawed out of the three. It's infamous for animation errors and recycled scripts, obviously the people who made it didn't at all care about what they put out as long as Playmates were happy their toyline got attention.

[ProactiveMan]

Flaws are pretty subjective, so I think it would be hard to determine which show has the most. Does it really matter though? They all exist, so you can watch the one you like.

[Ceres]

Flaws are pretty subjective, so I think it would be hard to determine which show has the most. Does it really matter though? They all exist, so you can watch the one you like.

pretty much this. The OT may have many flaws but it was still watchable, the same goes for most parts of the nick series and 03 series too.

[Wolfie65]

I do agree that there are (way) too many mutants in the current Nick 'toon, other than that, I think it's the best screen adaptation of the Turtles so far, vastly superior to all others (movies included) in characterization, story lines, plots, dialog, etc. etc.
To me, the Fred Wolf cartoon is basically just a never ending series of Vaudeville/Broadway/Hollywood Schlapschtick, written by adults for adults, but aired and marketed to kids.
They're not Turtles, or Ninjas, or Teenagers (or even Mutants), they're 4 Jimmy Durantes.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I do agree that there are (way) too many mutants in the current Nick 'toon, other than that, I think it's the best screen adaptation of the Turtles so far, vastly superior to all others (movies included) in characterization, story lines, plots, dialog, etc. etc.
To me, the Fred Wolf cartoon is basically just a never ending series of Vaudeville/Broadway/Hollywood Schlapschtick, written by adults for adults, but aired and marketed to kids.
They're not Turtles, or Ninjas, or Teenagers (or even Mutants), they're 4 Jimmy Durantes.

Woah. Hold up. You think the Nick cartoon is better than the original film? Idk about that...

[pferreira]

I notice complain about the 2k3 series having horrible voices, Utom Shredder, and FF/BttS and the Nick Toon suffering from plot amnisia, poor character development and too many mutants but i never see anyone here bashing the OT that much compared to the other two, does that make it the least flawed of the three shows and if not what were the flaws to the OT?Hang on, have you been on the right thread? If anything all I see is the OT series criticised. Guess it happens to both shows so don't worry. :)

[1987]

yeah, it had very minor flaws, sometimes they color their bandanas wrong or have the wrong voice, since this is the first iteration to adapt the multicolor bandanas the rare confusion was understandable. also, considering the fact it was the 80's/early 90's real hand-drawn animation, before they could have computers do all the work, i would say yes, this is the least flawed of the three shows. it may not have had a chronological storyline through the series, but it didnt really need one and it worked. some of the other shows flaws were they seem to have changed too much character origin from the mirage comic series, i.e.: utrom shredder(as you mentioned), or nick series making a lot of the characters younger than they've always been. its hard to find any flaws on a show as successful as the fw cartoon.

[BubblyShell22]

This show definitely had flaws such as animation errors, characters speaking through the wrong Turtle, etc, so it had flaws a plenty. All of the shows have flaws, but that doesn't mean that one is superior over the other. Despite the flaws in this show, I still love to watch it and laugh every time I do.

[Wesley]

The OT was a product of its time and parts of it haven't aged well. I loved the cartoon when I was a kid, but it's not as good as I remembered it. It was on the air for too long and could've been condensed into five seasons.

There are a lot of problems with the show, though nearly half of the episodes are still fun to watch. It's mostly a comedy with some action in it. It's one of those guilty pleasure shows like 2 Broke Girls and Charmed. I think the best seasons were one, two, three, seven, eight and ten.

Nevertheless, there was some good characterisation and story arcs in a few seasons like one and eight. One was probably the best season. I prefer the 2003 series, as it had better characterisation and story arcs. It was based on the original Mirage Comics and has aged well.

[GoldMutant]

Umm, the series with laughable bad humor, episodes written for the idea of selling a new toy of the week, and many production value problems? That show is heavily flawed even for the standards of the time, it clearly ran out of steam until the seventh season and the Red Sky portions. It feels the weakest of the three series of cartoons at least to me.

However, I still get a few laughs at the stupid jokes and to be granted, some things aged well. The song is one of the most memorable cartoon themes of all time, though I prefer the Red Sky theme strangely. The banter of our main quartet of villains is pretty hilarious looking back. Lastly, for the most part, the voice actors did a really good job and are extremely memorable as well.

Besides, along with the merits, if the show never reached the large popularity it had at the time, a majority of the fanbase would be non-existent. The cartoon, despite it's problems, is what brought the franchise to life alongside the originally obscure Mirage Comics and toyline. That I respect for the show.

I wouldn't say it's aged entirely well, but it has it's merits and helped kickstart the franchise. Flawed yes, but still good for fun like a little kid.

[CyberCubed]

The original cartoon barely ever advertised the toyline though, and when it did it was like for one brief episode.

The original cartoon barely ever had mutant of the week episodes, and when it did it was a rarity.

[plastroncafe]

The entire reason there was an FW cartoon in the first place was to sell toys.
And while the episodes themselves might not have been as blatant about it in the actual storytelling, the fact that the cartoon had toys makes the cartoon a commercial for those toys.

[billbot85]

The Fred World cartoon had plenty of flaws (plot holes, continuity errors, voice errors, animation errors), but as many here have said before, it's the same as the other two versions of the show. IMO all three shows are awesome in their own way and how they portray the boys in green, but they all have their fair share of flubs too. That just makes them all the more unique.

[OrangeNinja1987]

PVVDCOWhpE0

I'm pretty sure that if anything, the Fred Wolf cartoon would be the most flawed out of the three. It's infamous for animation errors and recycled scripts, obviously the people who made it didn't at all care about what they put out as long as Playmates were happy their toyline got attention.

I don't think that the show was flawed due to a lack of effort. Some of the seasons, such as 3 and 4, had huge amounts of episodes and not everyone could be well-written. I still find about 50%-70% of the episodes watchable (depending on the season, mostly in seasons 3 and 4 where the brunt of the show is) and even really funny and enjoyable.
In fact, even while it had a huge amount of episodes and not a lot of time could be devoted to each one, there are some gems post-season 1. I especially like The Cufflink Caper, the Maltese Hamster, Leonardo vs. Tempestra, Shredderville, Take Me to Your Leader, and Camera Bugged (although the latter is pretty silly and typical of the OT). These episodes, especially Shredderville, Cufflink Caper, and the Maltese Hamster, show some good writing and humor, and definitely some effort.

Anyway, on the topic of which series is most flawed, I'd say it would still be the OT. Animation errors, extreme goofiness, etc. Still it's so much fun to watch, accepting it for what it is.
All of the series are flawed. 2k3 has some good stories, voice acting (for the main cast), and action, while it has Utrom Shredder and, IMO, less stylishly appealing animation (it's always seemed bland to me). 2k12 is my favorite series, with great stories as well, creativity, ever-improving animation, great voice acting, one of the best Shredders ever, and great new characters and ideas, but it also has some bad/mediocre fillers and too many mutants and not enough story focus. Seriously, the 2012 show is like a kid on a sugar rush: fast, attention-grabbing, and extremely unfocused. I mean that in the highest respect for it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yes, the Fred Wolf cartoon was the most flawed. But by a strange twist of fate, it was also the most successful and launched an entire media franchise that has endured to this day.

Irony abounds, my fellow fans... irony abounds.

[Unworthy tinker]

This thread makes me realize how much the song Centuries fits this series, more specifically, the line "Just one mistake is all it will take, we'll go down in history, remember me for centuries". Not calling the show itself a mistake, but it is the most flawed and y'know, animation errors.:trazz:

Anyway, on a more serious note, yeah, it definitely is the most flawed (IMO), but hey, if it wasn't around then I think the franchise wouldn't have moved of from the original comics, and it wouldn't be what it is today.

[ProactiveMan]

Umm, the series with laughable bad humor, episodes written for the idea of selling a new toy of the week, and many production value problems? That show is heavily flawed even for the standards of the time, it clearly ran out of steam until the seventh season and the Red Sky portions. It feels the weakest of the three series of cartoons at least to me.


Why is selling toys a flaw though? Especially when those toys are so rad :tcool:

[biganimefan]

I really don't consider FW the least flawed of the three. That probably goes to 2K3. Nick is great, but as much as I enjoy/love the show there are quite a few things that irritate me about it. One of which is problems with character growth. FW had that problem too(even more so I'd say) and really hasn't aged well.

[GoldMutant]

Why is selling toys a flaw though? Especially when those toys are so rad :tcool:

Episodes being written around the toys is something I'm not a huge fan of. I just wish they had larger roles. Not as big as the Punk Frogs or Mondo Gecko, but at least extra appearances.

Guess it's more of a personal gripe, but every series does gotta sell dat merchandise. :) Probably just a personal issue, minor at most.

[ABrown]

I would say that the original cartoon was the most "flawed" of the three cartoons. However, I wouldn't say that it was the least entertaining. That title goes to the Nick series.

[Ninturtle]

I would say that the original cartoon was the most "flawed" of the three cartoons. However, I wouldn't say that it was the least entertaining. That title goes to the Nick series.

How is the Nick show less entertaining than the OT? It has a lot more multi episode plots , cooler and more threatening villians , better action , and has better animation.

[ABrown]

How is the Nick show less entertaining than the OT? It has a lot more multi episode plots , cooler and more threatening villians , better action , and has better animation.

It's just my opinion. I'm sure that there's people who consider the Nick series more entertaining.

[Spike Spiegel]

I think there are a lot of similarities between FW TMNT and the 1960's Batman show. Both had stellar first seasons that put their respective franchises on the map, and both series had a steady decline in quality thereafter.

However, post-season 1, it's hard to argue the "flaws" as much due to what the show seems to have been meant to be. Seasons 2-7 are very consistent in terms of their goofiness. As for the Red Sky stuff, that iteration of the franchise came when it was getting too long in the tooth, despite the darker tone.

[Ninturtle]

It's just my opinion. I'm sure that there's people who consider the Nick series more entertaining.

Yeah it's cool , we all have different opinions and I respect yours.

[pferreira]

The original cartoon barely ever advertised the toyline though, and when it did it was like for one brief episode.

The original cartoon barely ever had mutant of the week episodes, and when it did it was a rarity.Sometimes the writers even ignored the toyline. Look what happened to Ace Duck. Or the writers make a joke of the trash bin launcher toy in the cartoon. So no this show definitely wasn't Transformers and that's a good thing. :)

[jenna]

No. FW had its share of flaws. I've yet to see a turtles incarnation without flaws. Even the first film had a fair few. It just depends what angle you are looking at a show from. If you are looking for beautiful animation, story arcs and gripping characters then the OT is pretty flawed.

Caveat = OT is brilliant for other reasons. :)

[Candy Kappa]

Less flawed? Lol no.

[Wesley]

No. The FW cartoon was the most flawed I think, though I've only watched a few episodes of the 2012 series. The Pokemon anime reminds me of the 1987 series, because a) Both shows started out good, but got repetitive after a while. b) They each had funny villains. c) They were both retooled in their later years. d) The humour in both shows is similar.

[ZariusTwo]

How is the Nick show less entertaining than the OT? It has a lot more multi episode plots , cooler and more threatening villians , better action , and has better animation.

ztVMib1T4T4

[Candy Kappa]

Just by its very nature the Nick show have better animation, as they don't have to skimp on in-between drawings since the program already does that for you.

[Ninturtle]

ztVMib1T4T4

There's way less animation errors and they're hard to notice. There's also some really cool visuals like the turtles white eyes showing wgile they hide in shadows. So yes I'm serious.

[ssjup81]

There's way less animation errors and they're hard to notice. There's also some really cool visuals like the turtles white eyes showing wgile they hide in shadows. So yes I'm serious.I think the laugh is mostly towards the fact that you mentioned the animation is better. How is that a flaw anyway? That's like saying, the 1980s Jetsons reboot was less flawed than its 1962 counterpart because of the 80s version having better animation. Of course the animation will be better. There's a 20+-year gap.

[Ninturtle]

I think the laugh is mostly towards the fact that you mentioned the animation is better. How is that a flaw anyway? That's like saying, the 1980s Jetsons reboot was less flawed than its 1962 counterpart because of the 80s version having better animation. Of course the animation will be better. There's a 20+-year gap.

I never said that it was a flaw I just said the animation is an advantage the Nick show has over the OT. I wasn't just listing flaws I was saying why I think the Nick show is superior to the OT.

[Klunk1234]

The original series have a lot of animation errors like, for example, Leonardo having Michelangelo's voice.

[ssjup81]

I never said that it was a flaw I just said the animation is an advantage the Nick show has over the OT. I wasn't just listing flaws I was saying why I think the Nick show is superior to the OT.I just feel animation shouldn't even be a factor with that big a gap. It's still a 20-something year gap. Of COURSE the animation will be better in some way. Also, comparing hand drawn animation to CG also seems a bit unfair...but that's just me.

That aside, going slightly back on topic, the OT had a load of animation errors...pretty much nonexistent in the Red Sky eps. I guess having less eps to deal with had a lot to do with it and not being forced to crank out eps constantly like when it was at the height of its popularity helped.

Aside from animation/audio errors, I feel the biggest flaw, is that it's a product of its time...but at the same time it's not a flaw. lol