Batman: The Killing Joke

[TurtleTitan97]

At long last, one of the greatest Batman/Joker stories ever written will be getting an animated adaption:

Following the release of Justice League: Gods and Monsters, the next DC Entertainment animated feature will be Batman: The Killing Joke.

Due out in 2016, the story will be an adaptation of the controversial and acclaimed original graphic novel by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland. In the comics, The Joker escapes Arkham, shoots and paralyzes Barbara Gordon in order to terrorize her father, Gotham City Police Commissioner Jim Gordon.

There's no word yet on casting -- the film itself was just announced by Bruce Timm at the Comic Con International: San Diego panel for Justice League: Gods and Monsters -- but veteran Joker actor Mark Hamill has said in the past that he would un-retire the character for an adaptation of The Killing Joke...


http://comicbook.com/2015/07/11/batman-the-killing-joke-coming-as-an-animated-movie/

Hopefully Hamill gets casted as the Joker.

[pennydreadful]

Really looking forward to seeing this but man, I'm wondering how far they're going to go with the Joker's torture of Barbara. Like, how much they're going to show vs how much they're going to imply, know what I mean?

Definitely hope Mark Hamill does the VA work.

[Slade]

Sweet, I'm all for this.

I don't think Hamill will ever fully retire the Joker voice. I mean he just did it for Arkham Knight and all.

[CyberCubed]

Really looking forward to seeing this but man, I'm wondering how far they're going to go with the Joker's torture of Barbara. Like, how much they're going to show vs how much they're going to imply, know what I mean?

If its anything like Jason Todd in Under the Red Hood...not much. Joker beat Todd with a crowbar yet in the cartoon he looked hardly scratched with barely any blood or bruises. I was expecting it to be much more violent like the comics but they showed the beating mostly in shadows and barely any blood.

Most likely Barbara will just be shot.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Sweet can't wait for this

[PangolinFeets]

Ugh, this might be too dark for my tastes as an animated feature. Its not really an action-packed story. Its mostly the Joker being Satan in that ridiculous shirt.

[ZariusTwo]

Yes, because we're all begging to see an animated nekked Jim Gordon:P

[Shred Head]

Hell yeah I loved Killing Joke and I'm glad there doing a story from the past instead of New 52. I'm sure they will get Hamill it would be nice if his final swan song as Joker would be animated movie instead of a video game.

[sdp]

Hasn't Hammil "retired" the joker since the first Arkham Assylum game?

I wonder what they'll add to the story to make it into a movie. For "A death in the family" they basically only did it as a flash back to the origin of Red Hood. It'd be cool if they somehow incorporate Batgirl year one or a Batgirl story in the story since Batgirl has basically nothing to do in the movie besides being shot.


I actually thought the animated version of A Death in the Family was more graphic in the beating that he took when compared to the comic, the problem is that after all that damage he looks pretty much ok, I would've preferred a less graphic beating but seeing him all bruised up and beat up later.

[Redeemer]

Really looking forward to seeing this but man, I'm wondering how far they're going to go with the Joker's torture of Barbara. Like, how much they're going to show vs how much they're going to imply, know what I mean?

Definitely hope Mark Hamill does the VA work.

Sweet, I'm all for this.

I don't think Hamill will ever fully retire the Joker voice. I mean he just did it for Arkham Knight and all.
Yeah seriously :lol: he was suppose to retire after Arkham City.
Hasn't Hammil "retired" the joker since the first Arkham Assylum game?

I wonder what they'll add to the story to make it into a movie. For "A death in the family" they basically only did it as a flash back to the origin of Red Hood. It'd be cool if they somehow incorporate Batgirl year one or a Batgirl story in the story since Batgirl has basically nothing to do in the movie besides being shot.


I actually thought the animated version of A Death in the Family was more graphic in the beating that he took when compared to the comic, the problem is that after all that damage he looks pretty much ok, I would've preferred a less graphic beating but seeing him all bruised up and beat up later.

Mark Hammil has gone on record and said if they do a Killing Joke story then He would come back.
I would actually be willing to bet he will be voicing joker. The fans wants it, he wants and I guarantee you DC wants him to do it for marketing and publicity purposes.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

About frakking time!

[MikeandRaph87]

Ugh, this might be too dark for my tastes as an animated feature. Its not really an action-packed story. Its mostly the Joker being Satan in that ridiculous shirt.

I am with PF, I am not a fan of this graphic novel and it started Joker down a path that makes him psycho analyzed to death. I miss the fun yet deadly stories with Joker. That being said I would prefer The Laughing Fish or Happy, Birthday, Dreadful Joker adapted.

http://cdn.comixology.com/2000/ICO00/ICO003009.jpg
Detective Comics#475-#476.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080508043524/marvel_dc/images/a/a0/Batman_321.jpg

Switch out Alfred for Batgirl and it would be perfect. Both are stories that showcase Joker as top of the line crazy and deadly yet provides a fun story.


Or if you want a more modern story I have wanted "Hush" adapted for a good while now.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131103230749/marvel_dc/images/e/e2/Batman_-_Hush_TPB.jpg

[TurtleTitan97]

I am with PF, I am not a fan of this graphic novel and it started Joker down a path that makes him psycho analyzed to death. I miss the fun yet deadly stories with Joker. That being said I would prefer The Laughing Fish or Happy, Birthday, Dreadful Joker adapted.

http://cdn.comixology.com/2000/ICO00/ICO003009.jpg
Detective Comics#475-#476.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080508043524/marvel_dc/images/a/a0/Batman_321.jpg

Switch out Alfred for Batgirl and it would be perfect. Both are stories that showcase Joker as top of the line crazy and deadly yet provides a fun story.


Or if you want a more modern story I have wanted "Hush" adapted for a good while now.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131103230749/marvel_dc/images/e/e2/Batman_-_Hush_TPB.jpg

With the exception of Hush, I can't say I agree with the other two choices on being adapted honestly.

[Leo656]

Hush would be fun the same way Public Enemies was fun. People say Hush is less a story than a series of Boss Fights, and that's not wrong, but that's exactly why it would make for a great animated film. You have a perfectly valid excuse to do straight-up fan service without having to justify a $250 million budget.

Personally, I didn't mind "Hush" the comic story. There's not a lot to it but it was the kind of story you need to do every once in a while. Just a nice little "Greatest Hits" kinda deal in between all the more complicated stuff. I'd love it if they animated that one.

This ought'a be interesting, although quite a violent choice. You wonder what kind of creative changes they'll make.

[pennydreadful]

This ought'a be interesting, although quite a violent choice. You wonder what kind of creative changes they'll make.

That's what I mean - I am definitely wondering how they're going to handle it. Particularly in light of the furor over that alternate Batgirl cover.

Bruce Timm anounced at SDCC this weekend that they're doing an alternate/new prologue.

[sdp]

Did you guys not see the Catwoman short in Batman Year One? A little "side boob" is not going to be a problem in this DTV.

Would Hush actually work? Half of the fun was the mystery if they would actually revive Jason Todd or not and if he was indeed Hush, instead the mystery ended up being fairly lame.

[Leo656]

My thing is, I doubt they'll have Joker torture Gordon by bombarding him with photos of Barbara, naked and crippled. I think THAT is gonna be a little too far for them to try and do. What I have a feeling they'll do instead, is maybe have one of Joker's henchmen record him shooting her, and then maybe make Gordon watch THAT over and over again, just the video clip of her getting shot. I mean it's kinda weak, and MAYBE they'll keep it comics-accurate, but I'll be surprised if they fully Go There. I'll be thrilled if it's super-accurate, but we'll see.

I mean kids DO still watch these things, even though they're ostensibly aimed at an older audience. Parents don't care, they see "super-hero cartoons" and they buy the DVD for their kids, especially if it's Batman.

Like I said, Hush wouldn't be great as a "real" movie but it'd be great as one of these things. Public Enemies was really just "Superman and Batman vs. Everyone", and it was terrific, one of the best they've done. "Hush" as an animated feature would be no different, just an excuse to do Batman vs. his entire Rogues Gallery. There's a time for Story and a time for Fan Service. I've never had any problem at all with Hush being firmly in the latter category. It would look great as an animated feature. Since it sold huge numbers I have no doubt they'll get around to it one day.

[CyberCubed]

If its anything like the Arkham Knight videogame which had a flashback of the Killing Joke, then the actual Joker/Batgirl scene is probably going to be extremely brief.

Don't forget in the "Under the Red Hood" movie, Joker torturing Jason Todd was extremely brief and being hit with the crowbar barely did any damage to his face and had minimal bleeding. It was no more extreme than the fight scenes seen in the Justice League cartoon.

Even though these movies are allowed to show death and have cursing, the actual fighting is barely any different than the cartoons.

[Leo656]

But that would be a lot more damaging to the adaptation of this particular story, where the plot was secondary and the violence was the entire point.

[CyberCubed]

But that would be a lot more damaging to the adaptation of this particular story, where the plot was secondary and the violence was the entire point.

These movies have always been a very loose adaption of the comic stories. The two Damian Wayne movies they made basically mixed like 5 years worth of comic stories into two movies along with the Court of Owls.

Remember these movies aren't typically aimed at comic fans, they're aimed at people who never picked up a comic in their life but watched the other DC cartoons aired on TV. They were never meant to be 1:1 adaptions.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

My thing is, I doubt they'll have Joker torture Gordon by bombarding him with photos of Barbara, naked and crippled. I think THAT is gonna be a little too far for them to try and do. What I have a feeling they'll do instead, is maybe have one of Joker's henchmen record him shooting her, and then maybe make Gordon watch THAT over and over again, just the video clip of her getting shot. I mean it's kinda weak, and MAYBE they'll keep it comics-accurate, but I'll be surprised if they fully Go There. I'll be thrilled if it's super-accurate, but we'll see.

I mean kids DO still watch these things, even though they're ostensibly aimed at an older audience. Parents don't care, they see "super-hero cartoons" and they buy the DVD for their kids, especially if it's Batman.

Like I said, Hush wouldn't be great as a "real" movie but it'd be great as one of these things. Public Enemies was really just "Superman and Batman vs. Everyone", and it was terrific, one of the best they've done. "Hush" as an animated feature would be no different, just an excuse to do Batman vs. his entire Rogues Gallery. There's a time for Story and a time for Fan Service. I've never had any problem at all with Hush being firmly in the latter category. It would look great as an animated feature. Since it sold huge numbers I have no doubt they'll get around to it one day.

Yeah, but the Dark Knight Returns did not have Nazi-covered nipples. So I wouldn't be surprised if DC did tread the line pretty closely...

If its anything like the Arkham Knight videogame which had a flashback of the Killing Joke, then the actual Joker/Batgirl scene is probably going to be extremely brief.

Don't forget in the "Under the Red Hood" movie, Joker torturing Jason Todd was extremely brief and being hit with the crowbar barely did any damage to his face and had minimal bleeding. It was no more extreme than the fight scenes seen in the Justice League cartoon.

Even though these movies are allowed to show death and have cursing, the actual fighting is barely any different than the cartoons.

Under the Red Hood was awesome.

For a cinematic Batman movie, I've always thought blending "The Killing Joke", "Mad Love" and "Death in the Family" would be an awesome idea for showing how the Joker breaks EVERYONE except for Batman... but maybe even Batman, too.

[sdp]

Under The Red Hood was a loose adaptation of Jason's revival not A Death in the Family, it was included since it was needed in the backstory. Not to mention A Death in the Family is a long and rather boring story.

The Killing Joke is rather short as well and nothing to do with Barbara if you really think about it, the sole reason she was even used was because DC hadn't used her in a long time so they gave the go ahead to cripple her.

Again, these DTVs have had plenty of sexual content before, it's not like we see Barbara nude in the comic, just brief nudity at best. The Catwoman short in the Year One DTV had far more sexual content than The Killing Joke could possibly have.

And my comment about Hammill was more about how he has been retiring the joker for nearly a decade and yet he keeps coming back so yeah he might come back.

[Leo656]

These movies have always been a very loose adaption of the comic stories. The two Damian Wayne movies they made basically mixed like 5 years worth of comic stories into two movies along with the Court of Owls.

Remember these movies aren't typically aimed at comic fans, they're aimed at people who never picked up a comic in their life but watched the other DC cartoons aired on TV. They were never meant to be 1:1 adaptions.

You're missing my point. Without the violence and brutality, *THIS* story has no reason for existing or being adapted. Even Moore has said, it's barely a story and more just a string of horrific events, depicted in graphic and horrifying ways that shattered the boundaries of what comics were "allowed" to get away with at the time.

Other stories can get away with some trimming to fit what the censors want, but This Story has no point WITHOUT any of that. The events depicted over the story itself are mundane by comic standards. "Secondary character gets shot. Ho hum. Joker kidnaps a supporting cast member and Batman rescues them. Sigh. We see a Joker origin that DC annoyingly insists is NOT the 'real' one, because they hate Alan Moore and still think one of their own hacks will one day write a better one." What made the book stand out was ENTIRELY the graphic violence and torture scenes. The rest of it is nothing special, frankly.

You can't water it down too much, or at all, without completely losing the point of it, is what I'm saying.

I'm with Cylons in expecting that they'll go pretty far, maybe even farther than we suspect. I'm just curious as to HOW much they'll be allowed to do, because I suspect they will have to trim it down SOMEwhere.

Not to mention A Death in the Family is a long and rather boring story.


:lol: No it's not! It was the one and only story where Jason wasn't portrayed as an insufferable prick who people WANTED dead. The whole story about finding his real mother was the only sympathetic story they'd ever done with him, and it was rather intriguing since it turned out a lot of what we thought we knew about his upbringing was false. And if you were reading the books at the time, all the stuff with the Joker trying to hijack nukes and making deals with the Ayatollah... that sh*t was GOLD at the time, since it was so topical. :lol:

Also, 4 issues. If that's a "long boring" story you must not have much of an attention span, no offense. Like all 80s comics, it's wordy, but you can still read it all in an hour.

[PangolinFeets]

You're missing my point. Without the violence and brutality, *THIS* story has no reason for existing or being adapted. Even Moore has said, it's barely a story and more just a string of horrific events, depicted in graphic and horrifying ways that shattered the boundaries of what comics were "allowed" to get away with at the time.

Other stories can get away with some trimming to fit what the censors want, but This Story has no point WITHOUT any of that. The events depicted over the story itself are mundane by comic standards. "Secondary character gets shot. Ho hum. Joker kidnaps a supporting cast member and Batman rescues them. Sigh. We see a Joker origin that DC annoyingly insists is NOT the 'real' one, because they hate Alan Moore and still think one of their own hacks will one day write a better one." What made the book stand out was ENTIRELY the graphic violence and torture scenes. The rest of it is nothing special, frankly.

You can't water it down too much, or at all, without completely losing the point of it, is what I'm saying.

I'm with Cylons in expecting that they'll go pretty far, maybe even farther than we suspect. I'm just curious as to HOW much they'll be allowed to do, because I suspect they will have to trim it down SOMEwhere.



:lol: No it's not! It was the one and only story where Jason wasn't portrayed as an insufferable prick who people WANTED dead. The whole story about finding his real mother was the only sympathetic story they'd ever done with him, and it was rather intriguing since it turned out a lot of what we thought we knew about his upbringing was false. And if you were reading the books at the time, all the stuff with the Joker trying to hijack nukes and making deals with the Ayatollah... that sh*t was GOLD at the time, since it was so topical. :lol:

Also, 4 issues. If that's a "long boring" story you must not have much of an attention span, no offense. Like all 80s comics, it's wordy, but you can still read it all in an hour.
That's why I'm not into this. Its either going to be entirely too dark for a Bruce Timm toon or a totally different story from what it was originally.
They're likely going to take ideas from TKJ and make it into something more action-packed.

[Leo656]

I'unno, I have a little more faith in them than that. I think it'll be fine, I'm just Curious as to what changes are going to be made.

I am expecting the whole Axis Chemicals "Joker Origin" scene to be dragged out and made as Big as possible, to give viewers the maximum amount of action stuff. That and the funhouse. They're definitely going to pad the heck out of those two scenes. I imagine some of the stuff with Joker as a "regular guy" before the accident will probably be trimmed so we don't empathize with him too much. Like we'll probably hear about his pregnant wife, but never see her, that kind of thing. Because if we see her, and get too involved in his backstory, we start wanting him to successfully pull off the robbery so he can support his family, and we get mad at Batman for accidentally dropping him into the chemicals, and we're not supposed to be rooting for the bad guy. But that's kind of the brilliance of the book and how it makes you think, which was fine for what the book did but I suspect that for this, they'll simplify it wherever they can.

[JakeSully]

Who wants Peter Chung of Original TMNT show/Aeon Flux/COPS (80s toon) fame to do the movie?

[Redeemer]

These movies have always been a very loose adaption of the comic stories. The two Damian Wayne movies they made basically mixed like 5 years worth of comic stories into two movies along with the Court of Owls.

Remember these movies aren't typically aimed at comic fans, they're aimed at people who never picked up a comic in their life but watched the other DC cartoons aired on TV. They were never meant to be 1:1 adaptions.

I can't say this for a 100%, but the Return of the Dark Knight movies and Batman Year One were pretty much spot on, except for the lack of eternal monolog in Dark Knight returns.
so it can happen.

[MikeandRaph87]

Mark Hamill wants to voice The Joker in The Killing Joke adaptation. He is officially hired to do the role, but if he wants it I bet it is his.
http://collider.com/animation-news-7/

[Redeemer]

Mark Hamill wants to voice The Joker in The Killing Joke adaptation. He is officially hired to do the role, but if he wants it I bet it is his.
http://collider.com/animation-news-7/

:lol: I said the same thing on page 1. He has said this a few times over the years. But anyways I find it hard for WB to not give the green light for Mark Hamill on this project especially sense Bruce Tim is spear heading the project and he was the one who hired Hamill on in the animated series. So I find it hard to believe he won't be reprising his role as the joker.

[NinjaPug]

Looks like Hamill voicing the Joker is official. Great news.

http://collider.com/batman-the-killing-joke-mark-hamill-voicing-joker/?utm_campaign=collidersocial&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[CyberCubed]

Hammil but no Kevin Conroy as Batman? Those two go together like bread and butter, if it isn't seeing them interacted it just won't be the same.

Come to think of it, I don't think Mark Hammil ever voiced the Joker in anything that Kevin Conroy also wasn't in.

[Jester]

Do we have confirmation Conroy ain't attached?

[TurtleTitan97]

Do we have confirmation Conroy ain't attached?

They haven't announced anyone for the role of Batman yet.

[Redeemer]

Looks like Hamill voicing the Joker is official. Great news.

http://collider.com/batman-the-killing-joke-mark-hamill-voicing-joker/?utm_campaign=collidersocial&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Awesome news!!!! Really glad!!!

Hammil but no Kevin Conroy as Batman? Those two go together like bread and butter, if it isn't seeing them interacted it just won't be the same.

Come to think of it, I don't think Mark Hammil ever voiced the Joker in anything that Kevin Conroy also wasn't in.

I will be upset if Conroy does not voice Batman. If anyone attached to this project reads this post please let me stress how upset I WILL BE IF KEVIN CONROY DOES NOT VOICE BATMAN!!!!!

[Leo656]

And people accuse me of living in the past. Yeesh.

I mean, it's neat, but holy sh*t, relax.

[Cure]

I get annoyed whenever the same people do the same voice over and over. I prefer hearing new voices.

[ProactiveMan]

Yeah, but the Dark Knight Returns did not have Nazi-covered nipples.


Didn't it? I could have sworn it did.

The Killing Joke has a rep but it's more suggestive than explicit, I mean, they packed it in with an action-figure a few years ago. I think they can probably get fairly close based on some of the content I've seen in Assault on Arkham and The Dark Knight Returns.

I kinda want them to make an adaptation of Knightfall, even though it would probably be nine hours long and fairly tedious in places. It would make a good one-shot TV series though.

[Leo656]

I get annoyed whenever the same people do the same voice over and over. I prefer hearing new voices.

My thing is, he's fine at That Version of Joker, but that's not Joker in my head. It's by definition a watered-down cartoon version. The "real" Joker is a much darker character and nothing in Hammill's delivery matches up to that, not even in the games. It's too light and "goofy" and hung up on the jokes. The Joker Is Not A Clown.

He's great at the version he does, and he's better than almost everyone who ever played him in general, but I don't think it's a sadistic or menacing enough voice for the darker, more comics-oriented version of the character.

Y'know, the guy who skins people alive just to watch 'em die. That's The Joker, but it's NOT Mark Hammill's Joker. So yeah, I like him but I'm fine when other people get a crack at it. I don't think he's quite the right fit for this project, and once again people's nostalgia has just forced DC's hand.

I mean, it's fine. There's been worse. The guy in Red Hood, as I recall, was awful. Off the top of my head, I can't think of who I'd pick for Killing Joke, but I wouldn't have picked Mark. Not for this one.

[Cure]

I just wanna see and hear different takes on familiar characters. But like you said, never gonna happen with people being nostalgia junkies.

[CyberCubed]

The funny thing is Mark Hamil said he was retiring from playing the Joker back when Arkham City came out in 2011...yet he's come back again. It obviously isn't for the money because this is friggin Luke Skywalker and the man is loaded, but I guess he just loves playing the character.

[Krutch]

I remember hearing him on Smodcast(or was it Fatman on Batman?) when Mark said the only thing that he could see ever returning for was if they did a Killing Joke movie. So, this makes sense.

[Slade]

My thing is, he's fine at That Version of Joker, but that's not Joker in my head. It's by definition a watered-down cartoon version. The "real" Joker is a much darker character and nothing in Hammill's delivery matches up to that, not even in the games. It's too light and "goofy" and hung up on the jokes. The Joker Is Not A Clown.

He's great at the version he does, and he's better than almost everyone who ever played him in general, but I don't think it's a sadistic or menacing enough voice for the darker, more comics-oriented version of the character.

Y'know, the guy who skins people alive just to watch 'em die. That's The Joker, but it's NOT Mark Hammill's Joker. So yeah, I like him but I'm fine when other people get a crack at it. I don't think he's quite the right fit for this project, and once again people's nostalgia has just forced DC's hand.

I mean, it's fine. There's been worse. The guy in Red Hood, as I recall, was awful. Off the top of my head, I can't think of who I'd pick for Killing Joke, but I wouldn't have picked Mark. Not for this one.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Hammill's Joker voice can be extremely sadistic and menacing, there's glimpses of it all through the games. It's not the high pitch he usually has, but there's a deeper tone that really sells it.

I guess nostalgia plays a part for most though.

Also, man, Joker is a clown while being insane at the same time.
This is a guy who could walk up to you on the street and pay you because he likes your shoes. The very next day shoot you in the head because again, he likes your shoes.
The guy's all over the place. And that's why I love him!!!!

[Redeemer]

And people accuse me of living in the past. Yeesh.

I mean, it's neat, but holy sh*t, relax.
:lol: Bud you need to relax. You are talking about living in the past, you sound like you are still in high school, attacking other people for their opinions.

Honestly the last half of that post was a joke. I was simply exaggerating the comment to display the excitement the fandom has in general about this project.

[ZariusTwo]

mSXXIuKZ6qA

(0:00 to 1: 58 in the video)

Fun Fact: Alan Moore considers KJ one of the worst things he's ever written

[Krutch]

I wonder if they'll actually have Batman kill Joker like in the book or if we'll get some kind of watered down version.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I wonder if they'll actually have Batman kill Joker like in the book or if we'll get some kind of watered down version.

Considering the comic leaves it (somewhat) open to interpretation, no.

[Krutch]

I never really considered it open to interpretation, really. I get what you mean; its not very graphic or anything. But I think the only reason its open for any interpretation is because people know Batman's character. But, c'mon... Look at those last panels. And its even called The Killing Joke. It's nuts to think he doesn't. I guess it's confusing though when DC uses it as "somewhat" canon.

[TMNT_Guy]

But I think the only reason its open for any interpretation is because people know Batman's character. But, c'mon... Look at those last panels. And its even called The Killing Joke. It's nuts to think he doesn't. I guess it's confusing though when DC uses it as "somewhat" canon.
There's also the fact that the script for the book mentions nothing about Batman killing the Joker (http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/08/17/the-killing-joke-script-proves-batman-didnt-kill-the-joker/). Even the artist for the book claimed Batman is just leaning on the Joker's shoulder.

[MikeandRaph87]

I may not like The Killing Joke, but I do really enjoy Alan Moore's Clayface III follow up to the original storyline. Its the second of two stories in Batman Annual#11 printed in 1987. Check it out if you are either a Batman or Alan Moore fan and it would help to have read Wein's original story in Detective Comics#478/479.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Annual_Vol_1_11

[Leo656]

Moore flat-out said that last panel was just fans projecting. I hate it, I wish they drew it completely differently so people wouldn't get so confused.

Lots of critics have made a very intelligent point: Moore's script spends about 28 pages just describing the ripples that the raindrops make in the puddles on the ground. If there was ANY intention for Batman to kill the Joker, it would have been mentioned in the script. There would be nothing vague about it; simply an instruction for the artist to draw it in such a way that it looked vague. "Batman leans over and breaks Joker's neck; keep it somewhat ambiguous, and enshrouded in shadows," it would say. It doesn't. It's not in there. He doesn't kill him. It's just a poorly-drawn panel.

Not to be a spoilsport, but some things aren't a mystery and have actually been explained more than once. This is one of those things.

[Krutch]

Unless, of course, writing "Batman kills the Joker" in a script would immediately be flagged and asked to be rewritten. So the way its written could be to avoid such shenanigans. Happens all the time.

[MikeandRaph87]

Will we get any projects of any kind with Bruce Wayne/Batman, Dick Grayson/ Robin, and Barbara Gordon/ Batgirl. I always tend to enjoy those the most. It does not matter if its a TV show, direct to DVD, or a comic. I always liked that team.

[JakeSully]

Who'd love to see it as an R-rated animated movie in the tradition of other cool adult animated movies like Fritz the Cat, Wizards, South Park the Movie, Heavy Metal, Felidae, Ninja Scroll etc.?

[The Stryker]

Who'd love to see it as an R-rated animated movie in the tradition of other cool adult animated movies like Fritz the Cat, Wizards, South Park the Movie, Heavy Metal, Felidae, Ninja Scroll etc.?

Nah I'm good.

The book is pretty much a hard PG-13 type thing anyway. Making it more explicit would just be lame.

[Jester]

And a few of the ones listed are R-Rated for things other than violence....

[JakeSully]

And a few of the ones listed are R-Rated for things other than violence....

And you seen those movies?

[TurtleTitan97]

Take it for a grain of salt, but the movie might be rated R according to James Tucker: http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/10/9493545/the-killing-joke-may-be-first-batman-movie-to-secure-r-rating

[Aaronardo]

My thing is, he's fine at That Version of Joker, but that's not Joker in my head. It's by definition a watered-down cartoon version. The "real" Joker is a much darker character and nothing in Hammill's delivery matches up to that, not even in the games. It's too light and "goofy" and hung up on the jokes. The Joker Is Not A Clown.

He's great at the version he does, and he's better than almost everyone who ever played him in general, but I don't think it's a sadistic or menacing enough voice for the darker, more comics-oriented version of the character.

Y'know, the guy who skins people alive just to watch 'em die. That's The Joker, but it's NOT Mark Hammill's Joker. So yeah, I like him but I'm fine when other people get a crack at it. I don't think he's quite the right fit for this project, and once again people's nostalgia has just forced DC's hand.

I mean, it's fine. There's been worse. The guy in Red Hood, as I recall, was awful. Off the top of my head, I can't think of who I'd pick for Killing Joke, but I wouldn't have picked Mark. Not for this one.

Somebody hasn't seen Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker ;)
And honestly, I think Conroy and Hamill should be there to play Batman and Joker respectively, and I never even heard of The Animated Series (or, hell, the DCAU for that matter) until way after the final episode of JLA. I just think that they are without a doubt the greatest voices of those two characters, without any nostalgia factor. Plus, when you get Hamill, you kind of need Conroy. The two go together so well, it'd seem a little off for Hamill's Joker to be talking to any Batman other than Conroy's.
Oh, and sorry, I'm late to the party as per usual.

[JakeSully]

Now it's confirmed for an R-rated animated movie now as i hear.

[TurtleTitan97]

Now it's confirmed for an R-rated animated movie now as i hear.


Nothing has been confirmed at all. If you read the article, James Tucker says they COULD do that, but it doesn't mean they will.

[JakeSully]

Nothing has been confirmed at all. If you read the article, James Tucker says they COULD do that, but it doesn't mean they will.

Maybe a sticker on the blu-ray with a parental advisery warning saying "Warning: This animated feature is intended for mature audiences only, not recommended for children".

[TurtleTitan97]

Maybe a sticker on the blu-ray with a parental advisery warning saying "Warning: This animated feature is intended for mature audiences only, not recommended for children".

Why am I not surprised that you've completely ignored what I said? :roll:

[TigerClaw]

Maybe they will release two versions, a PG-13 version and then the Unrated version.

[JakeSully]

Maybe they will release two versions, a PG-13 version and then the Unrated version.


You mean like the Spawn animated show VHS tapes in the 90s which had both Unrated uncut and PG-13 versions?

[Coola Yagami]

PG-13 maybe... but not R. This was, at the end of the day, based on a kid's comic book. The violence isn't as extreme as you all think it is. Joker shoots Barbara and she falls onto the coffee table, smashing it to bits. Blood everywhere. They undress her and Joker takes pics. Big whoop. All that in what? First five minutes before the title pops up?

Most of the story was the Joker's origin (or not) and Batman's monologue about how his fights with the Joker are just going round and round in circles and wondering how it will end.

We do see Gordon naked and forced to wear subdom gear as he watches the walls lined with pics of Barbara, but again, seriously doubt the camera is gonna pan towards Gordon's junk, and seriously doubt the pics will show Barbara in all her naked (and bloody) glory. Just certain angles and stuff. Enough to suggest she's a naked bloody mess without actually showing the naked bloody mess. Just like the comic. How bout that?

You guys make it sound like the infamous Joker shoots Barbara scene is an orgy of blood and rape that will take over half the film when it's just the prologue. The real meat of the movie lies in Batman's thoughts on his history with the Joker, the Joker origin story, and the Joker's final speech in the end THAT THEY BETTER KEEP WORD FOR WORD GOD DAMN YOU DC ANIMATED MOVIES!!!

So stop trying to make it sound even gorier or bloodier than it really is, cause it's not.

[JakeSully]

PG-13 maybe... but not R. This was, at the end of the day, based on a kid's comic book. The violence isn't as extreme as you all think it is. Joker shoots Barbara and she falls onto the coffee table, smashing it to bits. Blood everywhere. They undress her and Joker takes pics. Big whoop. All that in what? First five minutes before the title pops up?

Most of the story was the Joker's origin (or not) and Batman's monologue about how his fights with the Joker are just going round and round in circles and wondering how it will end.

We do see Gordon naked and forced to wear subdom gear as he watches the walls lined with pics of Barbara, but again, seriously doubt the camera is gonna pan towards Gordon's junk, and seriously doubt the pics will show Barbara in all her naked (and bloody) glory. Just certain angles and stuff. Enough to suggest she's a naked bloody mess without actually showing the naked bloody mess. Just like the comic. How bout that?

You guys make it sound like the infamous Joker shoots Barbara scene is an orgy of blood and rape that will take over half the film when it's just the prologue. The real meat of the movie lies in Batman's thoughts on his history with the Joker, the Joker origin story, and the Joker's final speech in the end THAT THEY BETTER KEEP WORD FOR WORD GOD DAMN YOU DC ANIMATED MOVIES!!!

So stop trying to make it sound even gorier or bloodier than it really is, cause it's not.

Kids comic? it was for mature readers. Not all comics are for kids, ever heard of Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Heavy Metal Magazine, Swamp Thing, The Sandman, Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo, Sin City, 300 etc.?

And do you think KJ is like comics's Clockwork Orange?

[Coola Yagami]

Kids comic? it was for mature readers. Not all comics are for kids, ever heard of Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Heavy Metal Magazine, Swamp Thing, The Sandman, Akira by Katsuhiro Otomo, Sin City, 300 etc.?

And do you think KJ is like comics's Clockwork Orange?

Aaaaaaand kids still read that too. Hell, I was a kid when I read the Killing Joke. It didn't scar me for life or made me drop it in horror. Who voted for Jason Todd to DIE? Mostly kids.

[JakeSully]

Aaaaaaand kids still read that too. Hell, I was a kid when I read the Killing Joke. It didn't scar me for life or made me drop it in horror. Who voted for Jason Todd to DIE? Mostly kids.

And would you let kids watch Watership Down, Wizards, Heavy Metal, Fire and Ice, Fritz the Cat, Ninja Scroll, Wicked City, Akira, South Park the movie, American Pop, Ghost in the Shell, Golgo 13 The Professional, Dark Knight Returns, Princess Mononoke etc.? or are those animated movies for adults?

[Leo656]

Who voted for Jason Todd to DIE? Mostly kids.

Actually, turns out it was "mostly" (or at least in huge part) one adult male with an automatic dialing machine who had it set to dial the "Kill Jason" number like twice a minute. True story. They found that out way later on, like years and years later, but that one guy completely tipped the votes, otherwise Jason would have been voted to live.

Wacky, huh?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

By killing Jason Todd, that fan assured that Todd would actually become an even more prominent character in the comics years down the road.

I'd call it ironic, but Leo would beat me over the head with a folding chair. :trazz:

[MikeandRaph87]

Actually, turns out it was "mostly" (or at least in huge part) one adult male with an automatic dialing machine who had it set to dial the "Kill Jason" number like twice a minute. True story. They found that out way later on, like years and years later, but that one guy completely tipped the votes, otherwise Jason would have been voted to live.

Wacky, huh?

I knew this was going to come up. That guy is my hero. Dan Didio is the devil.

I read the death of the Mighty Mutanimals and some gritty elements in Archie's Adventures run that were clearly adult at a single digit age. So I from experience kids can handle more than adults think, but kids may not fully understand it.

[Coola Yagami]

And would you let kids watch Watership Down, Wizards, Heavy Metal, Fire and Ice, Fritz the Cat, Ninja Scroll, Wicked City, Akira, South Park the movie, American Pop, Ghost in the Shell, Golgo 13 The Professional, Dark Knight Returns, Princess Mononoke etc.? or are those animated movies for adults?

Of course not. Though stuff like South Park and whatnot were seen by kids. Remember,much like Playboy mags, if it's something they want to see.... they WILL see it in one way or another, parents be damned.

Especially Batman. I saw the Suicide Squad movie tossed in the same place as kids cartoons, despite the Harley/Deadshot sex scene. Every time I see that I grab it and put it somewhere else.

And also, wow Leo. Didn't know that. That's actually an awesome tidbit. Though I assume most of the legit voters were still kids reading the book.

[Leo656]

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/batman-killing-joke-animated-film-010503419.html

[TurtleTitan97]

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/batman-killing-joke-animated-film-010503419.html

Glad to finally hear an update. :)

[Autbot_Benz]

Mark Hamill just posted this on twitter

Mark Hamill ‏@HamillHimself 5m5 minutes ago

THE "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy...Just one bad day."

KILLING "Remember there's always madness... Madness is the emergency exit"

JOKE "If I have to have a past, then I prefer it to be multiple choice"

http://i63.tinypic.com/24pba88.jpg

Its Official Hamill and Conroy are Joker and Batman and Tara Strong will be Batgirl/ Babs Gordon
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-star-batman-killing-joke

[Xiewin]

Thank God for a new art style. I hated the animation in the last few movies.

[TurtleTitan97]

Mark Hamill just posted this on twitter

Mark Hamill ‏@HamillHimself 5m5 minutes ago

THE "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy...Just one bad day."

KILLING "Remember there's always madness... Madness is the emergency exit"

JOKE "If I have to have a past, then I prefer it to be multiple choice"

http://i63.tinypic.com/24pba88.jpg

Its Official Hamill and Conroy are Joker and Batman and Tara Strong will be Batgirl/ Babs Gordon
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-kevin-conroy-mark-hamill-star-batman-killing-joke

Sweet! :D

Plus they even got Ray Wise for Commissioner Gordon too!

[Commenter 42]

Thank God for a new art style. I hated the animation in the last few movies.

I second that.

Is there a trailer?

[TurtleTitan97]

I second that.

Is there a trailer?

Only an image at the moment.

[Commenter 42]

I miss the look from the 80's. The animation could use some soothing out, but I love how it captures the feel of Jose Luis Lopez.

The limited animation from DC really doesn't do anything for me.

zlpKNeJMsgc

[Spike Spiegel]

I miss the look from the 80's. The animation could use some soothing out, but I love how it captures the feel of Jose Luis Lopez.

The limited animation from DC really doesn't do anything for me.

zlpKNeJMsgc

Did you ever see the Ruby Spears Superman?

[shuriken]

My thing is, I doubt they'll have Joker torture Gordon by bombarding him with photos of Barbara, naked and crippled. I think THAT is gonna be a little too far for them to try and do. What I have a feeling they'll do instead, is maybe have one of Joker's henchmen record him shooting her, and then maybe make Gordon watch THAT over and over again, just the video clip of her getting shot. I mean it's kinda weak, and MAYBE they'll keep it comics-accurate, but I'll be surprised if they fully Go There. I'll be thrilled if it's super-accurate, but we'll see.

I mean kids DO still watch these things, even though they're ostensibly aimed at an older audience. Parents don't care, they see "super-hero cartoons" and they buy the DVD for their kids, especially if it's Batman.

Like I said, Hush wouldn't be great as a "real" movie but it'd be great as one of these things. Public Enemies was really just "Superman and Batman vs. Everyone", and it was terrific, one of the best they've done. "Hush" as an animated feature would be no different, just an excuse to do Batman vs. his entire Rogues Gallery. There's a time for Story and a time for Fan Service. I've never had any problem at all with Hush being firmly in the latter category. It would look great as an animated feature. Since it sold huge numbers I have no doubt they'll get around to it one day.

I agree. I know Hush gets a lot of grief, but it's still a really neat little story that has a lot of Bat's rogues' screwing with him. EVEN SUPES IS IN IT
Also yeah, totally checking this out.

[CyberCubed]

How is Hammil going to have time recording his lines for this when he's constantly across the world filming for Episode 8?

[Spike Spiegel]

How is Hammil going to have time recording his lines for this when he's constantly across the world filming for Episode 8?

He probably already recorded them. It's common to lay down vocals before you animate.

[TurtleTitan97]

EDIT: Here's a better link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41nkfy_a-sneak-peak-at-batman-the-killing-joke_shortfilms

[Autbot_Benz]

aDmgPYCXqjE

that video is hard to watch every 3 seconds there is this purple backround that starts flashing

[TurtleTitan97]

that video is hard to watch every 3 seconds there is this purple backround that starts flashing

Yeah, I honestly don't know why that's there.

Better video here, no random flashes: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41nkfy_a-sneak-peak-at-batman-the-killing-joke_shortfilms

[Autbot_Benz]

Yeah, I honestly don't know why that's there.

Better video here, no random flashes: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41nkfy_a-sneak-peak-at-batman-the-killing-joke_shortfilms

other than that I can't wait for this movie

[TurtleTitan97]

Warner Bros. officially confirms the movie will be rated R: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/batman-killing-joke-animated-rated-r?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

[Spike Spiegel]

Warner Bros. officially confirms the movie will be rated R: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/batman-killing-joke-animated-rated-r?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5kI6gJCQAAgKYg.jpg

[Shark_Blade]

"Faithful adaptation"?

That's more like it!

[ABrown]

I wasn't really looking any more forward to TKJ than I have any of the other DC Universe DTV movies. But that R rating has my curiosity peaked.

And you know even with the R rating, stores like Target are still going to incorrectly place the DVD in the kids section.

[JakeSully]

Yes and what if someone put Heavy Metal, Fritz the Cat, Watership Down, Wizards and Ninja Scroll in the kids section of a movie store?

[Krutch]

I still have nightmares from watching Watership Down :(

[Candy Kappa]

Yes and what if someone put Heavy Metal, Fritz the Cat, Watership Down, Wizards and Ninja Scroll in the kids section of a movie store?

Yeah. Or Die Hard, Cannibal Holocaust or Batman XXX. It's just movies amirite?

[ZariusTwo]

I still have nightmares from watching Watership Down :(

There was a recent s*itstorm over Channel 5 airing it over Easter in the UK:lol:

[Mayhem]

Well the film is still rated U here in the UK... the film has been aired on TV quite a few times, why now this showing it attracted such a furore I don't know. Poor sensitive darlings :ohwell::x:lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/the-first-official-trailer-for-the-r-rated-animated-adaptation-of-batman-a141001

Holy Arkham... have you SEEN THIS!? :teek:

That is straight up the scariest Joker I've EVER seen. I can't wait to double-feature this with Batman: Under the Hood...

[CyberCubed]

Why is Gordon in bondage?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Why is Gordon in bondage?

Maybe if you ever read a comic in your life, you wouldn't be in the dark woods all alone at night all the time. :trazz:

[TurtleTitan97]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/the-first-official-trailer-for-the-r-rated-animated-adaptation-of-batman-a141001

Holy Arkham... have you SEEN THIS!? :teek:

That is straight up the scariest Joker I've EVER seen. I can't wait to double-feature this with Batman: Under the Hood...

I loved every second of that trailer.

Makes me wanna reread the book all over again.

[TigerClaw]

here's the youtube version of the trailer

SnTSqgJPVl8

[CyberCubed]

So Joker forces Gordon in bondage for what?

[TurtleTitan97]

How about you either wait for the movie to come out to find out for yourself or just find the book at a library or something?

[CyberCubed]

I know the overall plot for the story, I just don't know the little details.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I know the overall plot for the story, I just don't know the little details.

You do know the Joker just DOES things, right? To be weird and creepy?

This is the same clown who has cut off his own face and worn it as a mask.

[Spike Spiegel]

I know the overall plot for the story, I just don't know the little details.

Good lord man, just take a little trip to the magic land of Wikipedia. It has what you need.

[NSP]

Awesome! Ive always hoped this would be in movie form someday. Do we know WHEN in 2016 itll be out??

[Spike Spiegel]

From Wikipedia

Warner Home Video will host the world premiere of The Killing Joke during the 2016 Comic-Con International in San Diego. The film will be released on home video later in the summer.[1][13]

So, we should see this becoming available in July or sometime thereabouts.

[NSP]

From Wikipedia



So, we should see this becoming available in July or sometime thereabouts.

Awesome thanks. Imma have to reserve my copy at Hastings!

[ZariusTwo]

'Cubed, the guy who wrote this story doesn't even like the blooming thing:)

mSXXIuKZ6qA

[Krutch]

Good lord man, just take a little trip to the magic land of Wikipedia. It has what you need.

Better yet, just read the damn book. It's totally worth your time.

[Sage Ninja]

wVO0ncdTUnA

wow, this is really good. I love all the thought that is going into this. It even sounds like Mark Hamill is toning down his joker laugh a bit.

[Redeemer]

wVO0ncdTUnA

wow, this is really good. I love all the thought that is going into this. It even sounds like Mark Hamill is toning down his joker laugh a bit.

Looks freaking amazing!!!!
You really don't see comic adaptation turn out better than the original source material. But this adaptation may be better than the original which would something considering how iconic "The Killing Joke" is.

[ZariusTwo]

Looks freaking amazing!!!!
You really don't see comic adaptation turn out better than the original source material.

And we probably still won't.

Besides, KJ is a good read when you're a moody teen, not so much now

[Redeemer]

And we probably still won't.

Besides, KJ is a good read when you're a moody teen, not so much now

Wow :lol:

I read it only a couple years ago so I definitely was not a teen :lol: But still enjoyed the book, but I honestly think part of the reason this comic is so good and so infamous is the shock factor which loses value after the first read.

I am also curious how they will do the scene of Joker Shooting Barbara and I wonder if they will even show the end scene of the book where Batman choking Joker to death or if they will do a completely different end scene.
I really find it hard to believe they will actually show Batman killing Joker

[myconius]

You do know the Joker just DOES things, right? To be weird and creepy?

This is the same clown who has cut off his own face and worn it as a mask.

i don't know? i just don't see Pre-Flashpoint Joker and New 52 Joker as even being the same character.

sort of like comparing the Silver-Age Joker to Morrison's Arkham Asylum Joker.

but this version is most definitely evil and sadistic! 100%

[ProactiveMan]

Man I really have to read it again - people are talking about stuff I have no recollection of at all.

[ZariusTwo]

I read it only a couple years ago so I definitely was not a teen :lol: But still enjoyed the book, but I honestly think part of the reason this comic is so good and so infamous is the shock factor which loses value after the first read.

Yeah, but the lasting consequences of it don't really matter anymore. Babs "got better" in the 2011 relaunch and she went back to being Batgirl like nothing happened (and they've since implied the events of KJ did'nt really happen to her), when last we saw Oracle Babs, she and Dick finally decided to grow up and get married during Convergence, so KJ actually had an upbeat and emotional pay-off. I don't think it's really all that iconic now that it's decades long impact has been diminished and both versions of Babs are in better places now.

When I say "moody teen" I was exaggerating, it's that or people with very moody mindsets who think Batman has to be depressingly dark all the time. I'm not in that place anymore so I don't see the entertainment value in stories that specialize in deconstructon, there's way too much of it in the market now. I prefer The Brave and the Bold, Batman '66 and Lego Batman these days than the kind of Dark Knight churned out by Miller and Moore, though I still read and enjoy the likes of Morrison and Snyder (though Synder is still overrated)

I am also curious how they will do the scene of Joker Shooting Barbara and I wonder if they will even show the end scene of the book where Batman choking Joker to death or if they will do a completely different end scene.
I really find it hard to believe they will actually show Batman killing Joker

Bruce wasn't choking Joker to death, that's Grant Morrison's take on it, but that's not what the artist intended. He was putting his hands on The Joker's shoulder to hold him steady while laughter overtook him.

[ProactiveMan]

So I re-read it tonight.

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of people are talking about this now on YouTube and stuff; specifically mentioning that Batman Kills the Joker at the end, which blew my mind because I'd read it a few times when I was younger, and I didn't remember that at all.

I don't see it - I don't know what the writer or DC have been saying over the years, but personally I think it's a stretch to reach that conclusion based on the last page. It's a weird ending, so I guess it's open to interpretation, but I didn't read it that way.

The other thing people are discussing is the Barbara Gordon photos, and the implication of sexual assault. The Joker undeniably beat her up and took naked photos of her, which is sexual assault, but a lot of folks are referring to an implied rape, and I'm not sure I agree with that. It just looks like he was taking photos while she was writhing in pain from her bullet wound.

Anyway, grim stuff.

[myconius]

So I re-read it tonight.

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of people are talking about this now on YouTube and stuff; specifically mentioning that Batman Kills the Joker at the end, which blew my mind because I'd read it a few times when I was younger, and I didn't remember that at all.

I don't see it - I don't know what the writer or DC have been saying over the years, but personally I think it's a stretch to reach that conclusion based on the last page. It's a weird ending, so I guess it's open to interpretation, but I didn't read it that way.

The other thing people are discussing is the Barbara Gordon photos, and the implication of sexual assault. The Joker undeniably beat her up and took naked photos of her, which is sexual assault, but a lot of folks are referring to an implied rape, and I'm not sure I agree with that. It just looks like he was taking photos while she was writhing in pain from her bullet wound.

Anyway, grim stuff.

people always say Art is interpreted differently by each viewer.
what they bring with them affects how they see it.

i never agreed that Batman kills the Joker at the end.
but once i took a look at the story from that point of view, it's actually quite hysterical!

that would in FACT be the 'Killing Joke' if The Joker coaxed Batman into finally killing him.
makes the title seem more appropriate too.

all in all it is a hideous gruesome story, even though Brian Bolland's art is SO pretty to look at! :D

[Spike Spiegel]

http://www.thehdroom.com/bluray/batman-killing-joke-blu-ray-dvd-bonus-features-release-date-finally-confirmed-100873/

Warner Home Video has finally confirmed the news that’s been floating around the Internet. Yes, Batman: The Killing Joke is set for an August 2nd release on Blu-ray, DVD and Digital HD. That’s not all, folks, as the team at Warner and DC Comics have put together a limited edition gift set for the true Batman animated fan.

http://www.thehdroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/batman-the-killing-joke-blu-ray-cover-art.jpg

[The Deadman]

Official Synopsis For The BATMAN: THE KILLING JOKE Animated Movie And New Image Of 'Batgirl' Released (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/animated_features/official-synopsis-for-the-batman-the-killing-joke-animated-a141934)

[ZariusTwo]

DC in the meantime are doing some great publicity for this one in their Rebirth comic out this Wednesday

By revealing The Joker who shot Babs was not the original, but "one of three" Jokers that have been active in Batman's lifetime

:roll:

[Redeemer]

DC in the meantime are doing some great publicity for this one in their Rebirth comic out this Wednesday

By revealing The Joker who shot Babs was not the original, but "one of three" Jokers that have been active in Batman's lifetime

:roll:

WTF????? Really????

[ZariusTwo]

WTF????? Really????

Guess that's their way of pacifying Alan "I don't want KJ to be canon" Moore while in the exact same issue pissing him off for another reason entirely :lol:

[Redeemer]

Guess that's their way of pacifying Alan "I don't want KJ to be canon" Moore while in the exact same issue pissing him off for another reason entirely :lol:

Well the biggest problem I have is the fact is with the Joker he does not have one origin, but multiple choice :D

But with this it sounds like each Joke will have his own singular origin.
Thats another reason why Joker is so popular is bc of the broad optional/unkown origin.

[ZariusTwo]

Well the biggest problem I have is the fact is with the Joker he does not have one origin, but multiple choice :D

But with this it sounds like each Joke will have his own singular origin.
Thats another reason why Joker is so popular is bc of the broad optional/unkown origin.

I dunno, I feel his Red Hood origin is the most iconic because of what it means for Killing Joke and Jason's revival.

[Redeemer]

I dunno, I feel his Red Hood origin is the most iconic because of what it means for Killing Joke and Jason's revival.


His "Red Hood" Origin is definitely his most iconic origin, but i like the fact he has multiple origins, bc it allows the reader to interpret the story and also sparks debate. It also leaves an unknown.

[ZariusTwo]

His "Red Hood" Origin is definitely his most iconic origin, but i like the fact he has multiple origins, bc it allows the reader to interpret the story and also sparks debate. It also leaves an unknown.

Il liked that Batman: TAS even dipped into that a bit, one episode had his origin as a failed comedian and Mask of the Phantasm had him start off as a mob heavy.

[ZariusTwo]

What Did and Didn't Work (MAJOR spoilers)

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/spoilers-batman-the-killing-joke-5-things-it-got-right-and-3-things-it-a143690?cp=8

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What Did and Didn't Work (MAJOR spoilers)

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/spoilers-batman-the-killing-joke-5-things-it-got-right-and-3-things-it-a143690?cp=8

I'm facepalming so hard right now.

Agreed. That first bullet point sounds TERRIBLE. ATROCIOUS.

[ZariusTwo]

Had the Bruce/Babs sex thing not floored me, it would have been the fact there's a musical number in it

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Had the Bruce/Babs sex thing not floored me, it would have been the fact there's a musical number in it

Seriously?

[Bry]

Agreed. That first bullet point sounds TERRIBLE. ATROCIOUS.

Had the Bruce/Babs sex thing not floored me, it would have been the fact there's a musical number in it

Wh... what? What?

Any attempt at a Bruce/Barbara romance or sexual relationship has always skeeved me right the hell out. She's your good friend's daughter and your adopted son's pretty-regular girlfriend, Bruce. That's awful behaviour on every conceivable level.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Wh... what? What?

Any attempt at a Bruce/Barbara romance or sexual relationship has always skeeved me right the hell out. She's your good friend's daughter and your adopted son's pretty-regular girlfriend, Bruce. That's awful behaviour on every conceivable level.

Exactly. Quit jerking around your bros, Bruce. Bros before ladies.

[ZariusTwo]

Seems Babs is a bit of a meat puppet the whole movie, there's even a pervy mob boss who wants to get into her pants, and Bruce treats her like s*it once they become a couple, and Babs reacts more like a horny mopey teenager than someone with any agency.

[Jester]

Pals before Gals work?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Seems Babs is a bit of a meat puppet the whole movie, there's even a pervy mob boss who wants to get into her pants, and Bruce treats her like s*it once they become a couple, and Babs reacts more like a horny mopey teenager than someone with any agency.

I know, this sounds terrible. I really had high hopes for this adaptation giving Babs more of an active role in the story and not just being a victim... but they made it worse for her character's treatment, not better.

Well done, WB. Well done. :trolleye:

Pals before Gals work?

Awesome. :tcool:

[Bry]

Exactly. Quit jerking around your bros, Bruce. Bros before ladies.

Like, even from a writing standpoint...

what does this add? Is the viewer supposed to care more about her getting shot because she had sex with Batman? They should care because she's Batgirl.

And to that point, if they want to add a scene of her being capable and likeable and giving her some personality, that's a good idea. Make the story a little bit more about her so that she doesn't just feel like a cheap plot device. On top of that, the comic was built on decades of continuity and assumed the reader already knew who she was and cared about her, and a movie can't really do that. So that idea makes a lot of sense.

But this? Basically just making her "Batman's sex friend" who gets booty-called and ditched, then shot? It totally undermines that, and the character. It's just a really dumb decision all around.

[CyberCubed]

So why was it in the movie if its not in the comic?

[ZariusTwo]

So why was it in the movie if its not in the comic?

One word: Padding.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Like, even from a writing standpoint...

what does this add? Is the viewer supposed to care more about her getting shot because she had sex with Batman? They should care because she's Batgirl.

And to that point, if they want to add a scene of her being capable and likeable and giving her some personality, that's a good idea. Make the story a little bit more about her so that she doesn't just feel like a cheap plot device. On top of that, the comic was built on decades of continuity and assumed the reader already knew who she was and cared about her, and a movie can't really do that. So that idea makes a lot of sense.

But this? Basically just making her "Batman's sex friend" who gets booty-called and ditched, then shot? It totally undermines that, and the character. It's just a really dumb decision all around.

Believe me, as an author and a huge Batman fan, I'm infuriated at this terrible decision. Unbelievable.

One word: Padding.

Exactly. This is the worst. Why didn't they instead weave in Nightwing or Robin and explain where they were? (I don't remember which came first... Killing Joke or Death in the Family)

[CyberCubed]

The site says she straddles him on the rooftop and tears off his mask and kisses him. How do we know its sex? I assume its in shadows?

[ZariusTwo]

(I don't remember which came first... Killing Joke or Death in the Family)

KJ came first, I recall Babs was in the wheelchair when attending Jason's funeral

The site says she straddles him on the rooftop and tears off his mask and kisses him.

It's the other way 'round Cubed. Bruce tears her mask and top off.

[Mew]

I really like buttered toast. :tcool:

[ZariusTwo]

I really like buttered toast. :tcool:

Ever tried buttered toast with mayo chicken?

[Mew]

Ever tried buttered toast with mayo chicken?
Cannot say that I have. It sounds rather nice.

[TurtleTitan97]

Exactly. This is the worst. Why didn't they instead weave in Nightwing or Robin and explain where they were? (I don't remember which came first... Killing Joke or Death in the Family)

Death in the Family comes after The Killing Joke, since a henchman of Joker's refers to Barbara being crippled.

[CyberCubed]

Batman screwing Barbara are just old male writers who want to take out their sexual fantasies in fiction. Bruce is their self-insert character and they want to have sex with a girl about 15 years younger than they are. You can tell that's the only reason this Bruce/Barbara thing exists, its old disgruntled writers in their 30's and 40's trying to live through their sick fantasies.

Sickening.

[TurtleTitan97]

You of all people are the last one to be talking about this subject, Mr. A Day Inside May

[CyberCubed]

You of all people are the last one to be talking about this subject, Mr. A Day Inside May

But this is worse because Babara dated Dick who was essentially Bruce's adopted son. Its like a father stealing your son's girlfriend.

Just makes me sick. I actually prefer Dick with Starfire over Barbara but even then Barbara with Bruce disturbs me. Does that black cop who she married in Batman Beyond exist in the normal comic canon?

[TurtleTitan97]

You do know Bruce and Barbara also had a past romantic relationship implied within the DCAU as well, yes?

And no Cubed, you're just as guilty as them.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

#Dick&Babs

[TurtleTitan97]

#Dick&Babs

You take that back!!! #Starfire+Robin4Eva!!!

[CyberCubed]

And no Cubed, you're just as guilty as them.

These are professional men in the industry, not fanfiction writers. This place has no stuff in official canon that will be exposed and read by millions of people for decades.

[MikeandRaph87]

#Dick&Babs

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/7/74/Robin_Dick_Grayson_0003.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111009070105

[TurtleTitan97]

This place has no stuff in official canon that will be exposed and read by millions of people for decades.

Cubed, as a guy who has read numerous comics over the years, I can assure you there are much more controversial pairings out there than Batman & Batgirl. There's no reason to cry spilled milk over this, especially for a one off movie.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You take that back!!! #Starfire+Robin4Eva!!!

Never. You wanna throw down, homeboy? We might be Flash friends but THIS is where I draw the line.

YOU TAKE IT BACK!!!!!!!!!!

:twink: :trazz:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/7/74/Robin_Dick_Grayson_0003.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111009070105

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Except Robin really needs some full leggings there. :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

Cubed, as a guy who has read numerous comics over the years, I can assure you there are much more controversial pairings out there than Batman & Batgirl. There's no reason to cry spilled milk over this, especially for a one off movie.

But Bruce/Barbara has now been in multiple things. There was also the DCAU comic where Bruce knocked up Barbara but she had a miscarriage when she was assaulted.

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/b9-600x461.jpg

[TurtleTitan97]

Never. You wanna throw down, homeboy? We might be Flash friends but THIS is where I draw the line.

YOU TAKE IT BACK!!!!!!!!!!

:twink: :trazz:


So that's how it's gonna go down, huh? TIME TO BRING ON THE HELLFIRE!!!

BEHOLD!!!

http://67.media.tumblr.com/a604ac1ef49fe4ead47df98976efd7bd/tumblr_non5qawQLB1r74s1jo2_1280.jpg

:P

[MikeandRaph87]

Never. You wanna throw down, homeboy? We might be Flash friends but THIS is where I draw the line.

YOU TAKE IT BACK!!!!!!!!!!

:twink: :trazz:



Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Except Robin really needs some full leggings there. :tlol:

Since the mid 2000s in comic when flashbacked to Dick has full leggings. Also, since Tim's costume debuted in 1990 Dick wears that one in animation when he is Robin.

The most relatable couple in DC and yet Didio cant understand it. The man is alien to the industry and cant relate to people. His stance on their pairring proves it.
http://primaryignition.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/tumblr_nnyox6t4rz1sr7dvdo1_1280.jpg

[ZariusTwo]

But Bruce/Barbara has now been in multiple things. There was also the DCAU comic where Bruce knocked up Barbara but she had a miscarriage when she was assaulted.

The DCAU was the only place where this was a thing, and nobody liked it then either.

In the Arkham games, she's got a thing for Tim.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So that's how it's gonna go down, huh? TIME TO BRING ON THE HELLFIRE!!!

BEHOLD!!!

http://67.media.tumblr.com/a604ac1ef49fe4ead47df98976efd7bd/tumblr_non5qawQLB1r74s1jo2_1280.jpg

:P

Since the mid 2000s in comic when flashbacked to Dick has full leggings. Also, since Tim's costume debuted in 1990 Dick wears that one in animation when he is Robin.

The most relatable couple in DC and yet Didio cant understand it. The man is alien to the industry and cant relate to people. His stance on their pairring proves it.
http://primaryignition.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/tumblr_nnyox6t4rz1sr7dvdo1_1280.jpg

Babs. She was the first Batgirl, daughter of Jim Gordon, sought to be her own vigilante until Batman incorporated her, formed the Birds of Prey, and inspired Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown. She might be stuck in a wheelchair, but she's still kicking ass.

BABS, man. BABS all the way.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The DCAU was the only place where this was a thing, and nobody liked it then either.

In the Arkham games, she's got a thing for Tim.

I know... that's almost even weirder than a thing for Bruce. :tlol:

[ZariusTwo]

Since the mid 2000s in comic when flashbacked to Dick has full leggings. Also, since Tim's costume debuted in 1990 Dick wears that one in animation when he is Robin.

The most relatable couple in DC and yet Didio cant understand it. The man is alien to the industry and cant relate to people. His stance on their pairring proves it.
http://primaryignition.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/tumblr_nnyox6t4rz1sr7dvdo1_1280.jpg

It's pretty sad post-Flashpoint that Dick and Babs have gone about sleeping with other people not even remembering that they got married in Convergence.

[TurtleTitan97]

Babs. She was the first Batgirl, daughter of Jim Gordon, sought to be her own vigilante until Batman incorporated her, formed the Birds of Prey, and inspired Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown. She might be stuck in a wheelchair, but she's still kicking ass.

BABS, man. BABS all the way.

Batgirl? HAH! More like BlandGirl! :twink:

Why settle for a lowly redhead human, when you could have an exotic princess from outer space with superpowers??

Starfire all the way to the end of the universe, baby!

http://fdzeta.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/_uploads_original_12_121851_3146464_7678197041_Sta rf.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's pretty sad post-Flashpoint that Dick and Babs have gone about sleeping with other people not even remembering that they got married in Convergence.

Did Convergence even really happen though? Did it count? Has it ever been referenced again by ANYTHING?

[ZariusTwo]

Starfire is in love with everybody though

Did Convergence even really happen though? Did it count? Has it ever been referenced again by ANYTHING?

Of course it happened, the current versions of Superman and Lois spun out of that event (and yes, it WAS referenced in the first issue of the short-lived Lois and Clark title)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Batgirl? HAH! More like BlandGirl! :twink:

Why settle for a lowly redhead human, when you could have an exotic princess from outer space with superpowers??

Starfire all the way to the end of the universe, baby!

http://fdzeta.com/data/MetaMirrorCache/_uploads_original_12_121851_3146464_7678197041_Sta rf.jpg

The only thing I like about Starfire is that she hung out with Jason Todd.

But she did it in a terrible TERRIBLE series written by a terrible TERRIBLE writer, so...

BABS. Badass Adventurer Beats Starfire.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Starfire is in love with everybody though



Of course it happened, the current versions of Superman and Lois spun out of that event (and yes, it WAS referenced in the first issue of the short-lived Lois and Clark title)

Ah, my bad.

I don't read Superman comics.

[ZariusTwo]

Ah, my bad.

I don't read Superman comics.

That's ok, they're a bit of a migrane to follow at the moment...much as I'm loving it, it's not very casual reader-friendly.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

There was an episode of Batman: The Animated Series where Barbara has to quickly change into Batgirl on the spot when Clayface attacks a mall she's shopping at.
You can see her changing behind a deserted shelf for a second. Nothing much.

But Bruce Timm's original idea for the moment was a lot more... uh... well, see for yourself.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2013/07/tumblr_mfgejfqktb1qituqxo2_1280.jpg

So, this film isn't the first time he's had some fantasies about Batgirl.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There was an episode of Batman: The Animated Series where Barbara has to quickly change into Batgirl on the spot when Clayface attacks a mall she's shopping at.
You can see her changing behind a deserted shelf for a second. Nothing much.

But Bruce Timm's original idea for the moment was a lot more... uh... well, see for yourself.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2013/07/tumblr_mfgejfqktb1qituqxo2_1280.jpg

So, this film isn't the first time he's had some fantasies about Batgirl.

Wow. Curb your perv, Timm. :tlol:

[CyberCubed]

Timm and Dini tried their hardest to make their cartoons have sex appeal, but Americanized cartoons simply can't do that.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Those two got tons of stuff past the censors, relating to both violence and sex.

I once read that anytime Timm was told something was too violent to show on TV, he'd go out of his way to make it acceptable to the censors, but twenty times more shocking. Like Batgirl's death in "Over the Edge"; when Timm was told what he had in mind was too much, he changed camera angles so that a lot of the damage to Babs when she fell off the building was implied instead of shown.

Also, there was the time Batgirl asked a couple prostitutes for help in one episode.

In JLU, Huntress and Question had a LOT of (implied) sex.

Plus, this scene makes no sense to a kid but plenty to an adult. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waJ2zHkqow)

[CyberCubed]

Also Dini is the one who created the Ivy/Harley lesbian ship in the first place. He also promoted it a ton in the final season and in the comics based on the show at the time.

[ZariusTwo]

The scene's making the 'rounds now.


https://twitter.com/acronite7/status/756542233424388096

[CyberCubed]

Heh, all the twitter reactions are equally disturbed.

Why does Bruce Timm want to make Americanized hentai so badly? I bet if DC would allow it he'd greenlit animated Batman porn. Thank god DC would never greenlit official porn for their characters.

[Bry]

What is with DC and awkward public Batman sex scenes, anyway? This has happened, like, a bunch of times in recent years.

[CyberCubed]

What is with DC and awkward public Batman sex scenes, anyway? This has happened, like, a bunch of times in recent years.

As I said before its wish-fullfilment from these writers because they use Batman as their self-insert character. These are all old 40-50 year old writers who are likely sexually deprived because they're bored of their wives and try to live out their fantasies through writing Batman.

Batman screwing Barbara is because they all dream of having sex with younger women and use Batman as their self-insert character.

[TurtleTitan97]

BABS. Badass Adventurer Beats Starfire.

........

This round only goes to you because I can't think of a clever acronym for Starfire. :lol: But if I did it would be how my Kory would snap your Babs like a twig.

But mark my words, there shall be a day of reckoning. And on that reckoning day, you shall gaze upon my unholy shipping, and despair!!! :evilgrin:

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Also Dini is the one who created the Ivy/Harley lesbian ship in the first place. He also promoted it a ton in the final season and in the comics based on the show at the time.

Did he "promote" a lesbian relationship, or did he just show two girls having a good time together on crime sprees?

[ZariusTwo]

CBR running with the story now

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/batman-the-killing-joke-film-catches-bruce-barbara-in-a-bat-romance-2016

[ZariusTwo]

4RrkHmYpVAw

Another clip's leaked.

This is worse than I thought.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What is with DC and awkward public Batman sex scenes, anyway? This has happened, like, a bunch of times in recent years.

Dammit, the only woman Batman should be awkwardly banging on a rooftop is Catwoman. And even THAT was idiotic. :trolleye:

Those two got tons of stuff past the censors, relating to both violence and sex.

I once read that anytime Timm was told something was too violent to show on TV, he'd go out of his way to make it acceptable to the censors, but twenty times more shocking. Like Batgirl's death in "Over the Edge"; when Timm was told what he had in mind was too much, he changed camera angles so that a lot of the damage to Babs when she fell off the building was implied instead of shown.

Also, there was the time Batgirl asked a couple prostitutes for help in one episode.

In JLU, Huntress and Question had a LOT of (implied) sex.

Plus, this scene makes no sense to a kid but plenty to an adult. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waJ2zHkqow)

<jaw drops> I don't remember that clip from when I was a kid...

4RrkHmYpVAw

Another clip's leaked.

This is worse than I thought.

I don't know which I hate worse, Bat-toy Batgirl from this or Hipster Babs from the Nu52. :flaming::flaming::flaming:

[CyberCubed]

Its also weird they'd put a scene like that in a movie like this where Batgirl gets paralyzed. I mean, the feminists will be so angry.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Its also weird they'd put a scene like that in a movie like this where Batgirl gets paralyzed. I mean, the feminists will be so angry.

True Batman and Batgirl fans everywhere will be angry.

[CyberCubed]

LOL, neogaf is in an uproar over the scene:

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1220499&page=10

I'm sure 4chan is going crazy. I haven't checked reddit yet. Twitter and tumblr will be pissed.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I have to wonder if Kevin Conroy and Tara Strong thought the dialogue was a little weird too, and if they approached Timm about it.

[MikeandRaph87]

........

This round only goes to you because I can't think of a clever acronym for Starfire. :lol: But if I did it would be how my Kory would snap your Babs like a twig.

But mark my words, there shall be a day of reckoning. And on that reckoning day, you shall gaze upon my unholy shipping, and despair!!! :evilgrin:

I can think of one which suggest Starfire is promiscuous and flaunts her body that is alliterative with her hero codename. So your ship has sunk.:evilgrin:

There is no better representative of that down to earth relatable connection Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon have amongst a world of superheroes. That and they both are about the best characters in DC Comics publication history.

[MikeandRaph87]

I have to wonder if Kevin Conroy and Tara Strong thought the dialogue was a little weird too, and if they approached Timm about it.

It was just that one scene in the Mystery of The Batwoman direct-to-DVD film,right? It makes no sense at all and I will bet it was just the writers thinking it was the last hurrah so why no have what they thought we be a little fun with the flirtation between Batman and Batgirl. It cannot be anything more than that.

[TurtleTitan97]

I can think of one which suggest Starfire is promiscuous and flaunts her body that is alliterative with her hero codename. So your ship has sunk.:evilgrin:.

Nope. nopenopenopenope.

Keep trying, Mike. Nothing you say shall convince me otherwise.


There is no better representative of that down to earth relatable connection

*cough*cough* WallyWestAndLindaPark*cough*cough*

Also, I shall leave this beind, and bid you adieu and declare I win. :D

http://65.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsaxxj8fJO1qcejybo2_500.png

[MikeandRaph87]

Nope. nopenopenopenope.

Keep trying, Mike. Nothing you say shall convince me otherwise.



*cough*cough* WallyWestAndLindaPark*cough*cough*

Also, I shall leave this beind, and bid you adieu and declare I win. :D

http://65.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsaxxj8fJO1qcejybo2_500.png

You are in denial, Titan. Besides Wolfman says that Dick's relationship with Starfire was crafted as a way to distance Dick Grayson from Batman and Gotham and help transition him to Nightwing. It was never intended for them to end up together. He actually had long-term plans for a romantic spark between Donna Troy to be ignited after Terry would be inevitably killed off. So the one who crafted the relationship with Starfire states it was never meant to be beyond a transition tool.

Wally has a super power. That makes it null and void. I love Wally West character, but Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are the best example of what a down to earth couple amongst superpowered beings and a relatable relationship we might envy to have if not have with our significant other.

[TurtleTitan97]

You are in denial, Titan.

I'M NOT IN DENIAL, YOU'RE IN DENIAL!!! :x Your Babs is a weak, fragile female, while Kory is strong, bold, beautiful and powerful! She is who Richard Grayson deserves!!

I'll defend this pairing till my dying breath if I have to!

NEVER SURRENDER!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

........

This round only goes to you because I can't think of a clever acronym for Starfire. :lol: But if I did it would be how my Kory would snap your Babs like a twig.

But mark my words, there shall be a day of reckoning. And on that reckoning day, you shall gaze upon my unholy shipping, and despair!!! :evilgrin:

You are in denial, Titan. Besides Wolfman says that Dick's relationship with Starfire was crafted as a way to distance Dick Grayson from Batman and Gotham and help transition him to Nightwing. It was never intended for them to end up together. He actually had long-term plans for a romantic spark between Donna Troy to be ignited after Terry would be inevitably killed off. So the one who crafted the relationship with Starfire states it was never meant to be beyond a transition tool.

Wally has a super power. That makes it null and void. I love Wally West character, but Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are the best example of what a down to earth couple amongst superpowered beings and a relatable relationship we might envy to have if not have with our significant other.

I'M NOT IN DENIAL, YOU'RE IN DENIAL!!! :x

I'll defend this pairing till my dying breath if I have to!

NEVER SURRENDER!

At this point, I feel like I'm kicking a puppy. Seriously, Titan, you need some pro-Kori backup in here. :trazz:

But considering her relationship with Jason and Roy... erm... you know what, I can't go through with it. Not only is the puppy already whimpering, but the New 52 didn't do Babs any favors, either, so...

Babs rules, Kori drools. :trazz: PLAYGROUND NERD TAUNTING!!!!

[TurtleTitan97]

The only area Babs ruled in was the wheelchair. Thanks Joker! :D

Ok, now I'm done. :P

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The only area Babs ruled in was the wheelchair. Thanks Joker! :D

Ok, now I'm done. :P

As opposed to Kori, who ruled... certain other areas? Hmm?

Okay, now I'M done. :tlol:

Man, this was fun. At least no one tried to defend Catalina Torres (aka Tarantula). :trazz:

[TheSkeletonMan939]

You know, I bet they added in the Bruce/Babs sex scene just to help along with getting an R rating. Or at least that was Timm's justification. I just can't imagine any reason why anyone in authority would OK the idea at face value.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You know, I bet they added in the Bruce/Babs sex scene just to help along with getting an R rating. Or at least that was Timm's justification. I just can't imagine any reason why anyone in authority would OK the idea at face value.

Killing Joke didn't need any help getting an R-rating...

Pretty sure it was just in their for Timm and Dini's jollies. Eew.

Seriously, with femme fatales like Selina Kyle, Pamela Isley, and Talia al Ghul--to say nothing of the crazy Harley Quinn--why they felt a need to force this is beyond me.

[Bry]

4RrkHmYpVAw

Another clip's leaked.

This is worse than I thought.

That was awful. Just... badly-written, badly-conceived, bad all around.

Ugh, this is so disappointing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That was awful. Just... badly-written, badly-conceived, bad all around.

Ugh, this is so disappointing.

It's astonishing that they would handicap THE most anticipated Batman animated feature with something so ridiculous. Seriously... it's like they didn't even anticipate the outrage and hate this would cause.

Wonder what Alan Moore thinks of it?

[MikeandRaph87]

Oh my freaking Lord, I did not catch what you all were talking about. I thought it was Barbara flirting with Bruce in a one off scene from Mystery of The Batwoman. Barbara Gordon had actual anal intecourse with Bruce Wayne, one night stand or not....it makes no sense at all. He is a potential father in-law and her dad's best friend.This was added in just to give more story for Barbara and motivation for Bruce to catch Joker? Very foolish and unneccessary. Anything Cybercubed has to say on this matter is justified. The horrific moment I realized it my expression was pretty much this.
http://gifs.joelglovier.com/disgust/fresh-prince-omg.gif

Being a Barbara Gordon/Batgirl fan I never intended on watching this and now I know for a fact I will avoid this like the plague.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Well anywayyyyy

I've been listening to the musical score and it's pretty great so far. These are the same guys who scored pretty much the entire DCAU, so it's no surprise to me.

[CyberCubed]

That's not even the worse scene. Barbara actually pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's straddling Bruce on the rooftop. Someone find the clip and post it here.

[MikeandRaph87]

That's not even the worse scene. Barbara actually pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's straddling Bruce on the rooftop. Someone find the clip and post it here.

I know and I saw the clip. If someone wants to find it they can. Don't make it easy for them. I know its a work of fiction and is not cannon to anything, but right now I am ped off. In the next day I may pull Subzero out from my DVD catalog with all this.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

https://twitter.com/AcroNite7/status/756542233424388096

blargh

No matter how goofy this scene is, I still love Timm for the DCAU.

[TurtleTitan97]

https://twitter.com/AcroNite7/status/756542233424388096

blargh

No matter how goofy this scene is, I still love Timm for the DCAU.

Same.

At least hopefully this film will turn out better than the ones based on the New 52.

[CyberCubed]

I hope the feminist crowd on tumblr gets wind of this and they make a big stint out of it like they usually do. Except this time the backlash will be warranted and I want to see all the hate on the internet go towards DC and Bruce Timm.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I hope the feminist crowd on tumblr gets wind of this and they make a big stint out of it like they usually do. Except this time the backlash will be warranted and I want to see all the hate on the internet go towards DC and Bruce Timm.

They'll probably not say anything, because Babs is on top. She's in control here!

[CyberCubed]

They'll probably not say anything, because Babs is on top. She's in control here!

Its a movie where Babara is used for sex and then shot and paralyzed. There is no happy ending for her here or females in general.

Sure eventually she becomes Oracle and is fine in the comic world, but in the context of this movie its just mean spirited.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Well I think feminists don't like the original graphic novel anyway. They were whining about her being a "woman in the fridge".

[CyberCubed]

Well I think feminists don't like the original graphic novel anyway. They were whining about her being a "woman in the fridge".

Yeah, but an animated movie is far more exposed then a comic. Far more people watch tv/movies/cartoons than read comics. Now everything will hit the fan.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

It's kinda funny how Timm said he would flesh out Barbara's character for the film, and just adds a sex scene for her, and I think there's a subplot about a mob boss who wants to bone her too. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Timm was trolling everyone.

[Bry]

Well I think feminists don't like the original graphic novel anyway. They were whining about her being a "woman in the fridge".

It's all about how it's handled and what you do with it after-the-fact. Barbara wasn't treated well in the original graphic novel -- even Alan Moore freely admits that -- but her development into Oracle made her a much better character in the long run.

But even the graphic novel didn't treat her as poorly as this movie seems to. The comic treated her as a plot device, but it didn't completely remove her dignity. :ohwell:

[Netkeeper]

It's kinda funny how Timm said he would flesh out Barbara's character for the film, and just adds a sex scene for her, and I think there's a subplot about a mob boss who wants to bone her too. If I didn't know better, I'd say that Timm was trolling everyone.
Or that he thinks character depth is defined by being an object of lust...

[turtle1237]

That's not even the worse scene. Barbara actually pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's straddling Bruce on the rooftop. Someone find the clip and post it here.

Have not seen the movie yet, but have the classic comic.

In the comic you do see Barbara in the nude. You see a bare breast shot, and a bare butt shot. If you just see a bra, that's not that big of a deal compare the comic version.

[CyberCubed]

Have not seen the movie yet, but have the classic comic.

In the comic you do see Barbara in the nude. You see a bare breast shot, and a bare butt shot. If you just see a bra, that's not that big of a deal compare the comic version.

No, they added an extra sex scene to the movie where Barbara has sex with Batman on a rooftop. She pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's riding Bruce then the scene cuts to black.

[turtle1237]

No, they added an extra sex scene to the movie where Barbara has sex with Batman on a rooftop. She pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's riding Bruce then the scene cuts to black.

That's strange. Perhaps if they had a Batman Catwoman scene I can understand. They been having sex a lot in the comics. But Batgirl?

[CyberCubed]

That's strange. Perhaps if they had a Batman Catwoman scene I can understand. They been having sex a lot in the comics. But Batgirl?

Bruce Timm has had a fetish for Batman screwing Batgirl since the 90's. He finally got his wish to make it canon on-screen after 20 years.

[Prowler]

I'm far form being an expert on Batman, but can't say I'm a fan of that couple.

How long is it gonna take Cubed to suggest Barbara is a gold digger for wanting to screw a billionaire like Batman? :P

[turtle1237]

Bruce Timm has had a fetish for Batman screwing Batgirl since the 90's. He finally got his wish to make it canon on-screen after 20 years.

If giving the choice between a Catwoman sex scene or a Batgirl sex scene, I go for Catwoman. Did you see that strip pole scene in the Catwoman short in Batman Year One cartoon?

That was hot. Catwoman rock that scene. It should of been a Catwoman scene lol over Batgirl.

Of course in the next Batman animated movie, he might have Ivy, Catwoman and Batgirl in one room to prove how manly he is lol. It was a joke.

[Shark_Blade]

No, they added an extra sex scene to the movie where Barbara has sex with Batman on a rooftop. She pulls off her top and you see her bra as she's riding Bruce then the scene cuts to black.

Wow it's true. Disgusting.

[ZariusTwo]

Of course in the next Batman animated movie, he might have Ivy, Catwoman and Batgirl in one room to prove how manly he is lol. It was a joke.

It was confirmed yesterday the next Timm project is a Batman & Harley movie.

The only area Babs ruled in was the wheelchair. Thanks Joker! :D

Ok, now I'm done. :P

She was much more inspirational as a cripple than a caped crusader, that much I'll give you. She and Dick definitely belong together though, and Kori even gave him her blessing to marry Babs in the Convergence story, so that's that.

[Shark_Blade]

My expectation for this awful movie goes lower and lower.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-killing-joke-trailer-redrawn-in-the-style-of-the-o-1783148947

The comic is such a legend and now the cartoon movie remake gonna turn it into a generic bland looking paedophilic mess.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

4RrkHmYpVAw

Another clip's leaked.

This is worse than I thought.

Ugghh! The dialogue for Babs was just cringe-worthy.

https://twitter.com/AcroNite7/status/756542233424388096

blargh

No matter how goofy this scene is, I still love Timm for the DCAU.

Me too but this is just disturbing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So most of us agree Babs/Dick (with Dick/Starfire as an acceptable alternative)...

What about the rest of the Bat crew?

Tim/Stephanie all the way.

[ZariusTwo]

I do like Tim and Steph a lot, they're currently together in the Rebirth era too:)

There is a short story set in the future where he's with Cass, but whether or not that's still canon is debatable.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I do like Tim and Steph a lot, they're currently together in the Rebirth era too:)

There is a short story set in the future where he's with Cass, but whether or not that's still canon is debatable.

Cassandra Cain or Cassandra Sandsmark? Because I prefer to keep the Bat Clan in the Bat Clan. :trazz:

[ZariusTwo]

Cassandra Cain or Cassandra Sandsmark? Because I prefer to keep the Bat Clan in the Bat Clan. :trazz:

Cain. The story is called "The Batt", it's just a little fluffy five pager where he and Cass fight crime then make googly-eyes at each other wanting to tell the other they 'wuv the other, when duty calls yet again

Tim is Batman by this point.

[MikeandRaph87]

They played with the idea of pairring Tim with Sandmark as a result of their generation racking up a body count with their loves Spoiler and the Superboy clone being killed off and then Bart. Together due their mutual grief.

Dick is destined to be Batman. DC played with the idea of Dick not wanting it or ending up removed from the legacy but in the end it is him. With Damien around it questions where Tim will ultimately be. Red Robin from then on and his place in the pecking order never clear?

Why cant Dick and Batbara have a happy future being Bat protégés. It embodies hope for Gotham which is Bruce's ultimate goal and the two of them are his greatest successes. That is why I like thebend of Batman#300.

[ZariusTwo]

Dan Didio is the reason. His editorial decree a while ago was that nobody in the Bat-Family could have a stable relationship. It's the reason Batwoman's writers walked off her title as they wanted to marry her off to Maggie Sawyer.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Dan Didio is the reason. His editorial decree a while ago was that nobody in the Bat-Family could have a stable relationship. It's the reason Batwoman's writers walked off her title as they wanted to marry her off to Maggie Sawyer.

That was terrible. Ruined not only the story, but the entire line. Once the team was gone, the book became trash.

[Netkeeper]

Man though, that sex scene pisses me off, as a fan of adaptations. It's super disrespectful to the original work. Shows how much Timm cares about honouring Alan Moore's work...

[sdp]

TKJ is pretty short and not that interesting outside the Joker's origin story this will add more to the story. I prefer these adaptations adding new stuff. I actually think Batgirl having a short fling at one point with Batman is kind of a cool idea, it creates more animosity between Dick and Bruce.

[Netkeeper]

Adding new material is the way of adaptations because otherwise people that are familiar with the original don't get anything extra out of it besides their story in a different medium, but I believe additions should only be made by consent of the original author regardless of how much impact they can make or they should take significant advantage of the new medium.

This doesn't do that. It takes significant advantage of Timm's otp and the R rating. I know saying things like "consent of the original author" isn't standard practice, but I firmly believe it should be, as a huge fan of adaptations that is writing one himself.

[plastroncafe]

I was torn as to whether or not to see this in the first place, and now with the new "revelations" I don't know that I ever will.

It's been years since I've read the story, but from what I remember Barbara was victimized pretty heavily in order to get a reaction from other characters.

I'm trying to imagine the rationale behind this rather sizable narrative direction.

Was it to make Batman angrier? Because she wasn't fridged enough before?
Was it to show that she wasn't a "pure" innocent?

I'm at a loss.

[Cipher]

http://comicsalliance.com/animated-killing-joke-batman-batgirls-relationship/

Oh ****ing noooooooo.

I can't even fathom how that happened. As a fan of their world and characters, I really want DC to be better. But Jesus Christ.

That is so tone-deaf.

Dan Didio is the reason. His editorial decree a while ago was that nobody in the Bat-Family could have a stable relationship. It's the reason Batwoman's writers walked off her title as they wanted to marry her off to Maggie Sawyer.
Batwoman under Blackman and Williams III was too good for this world.

For the record/nerd cred: I know Batman and Barbara did have a relationship in the DCAU. I'm okay with that. It's presented as unhealthy, features a version of Bruce who becomes more and more isolated as that continuity goes on, and Barbara winds up fine. It's also only ever implied.

Their being together isn't a problem in and off itself (though it's not something you can ever present in a positive light). It's just an amazingly ****ed thing to put in this story, and it seems they went the extra mile to handle it in as tone-deaf a manner as possible. That Comics Alliance piece covers it well. I'm blown away.

[ZariusTwo]

Comic-Con panel went down a treat

Or rather just went down


http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-killing-joke-movie-is-a-disaster-right-down-to-its-1784176711?rev=1469293916170&utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[CyberCubed]

It was during the Q&A that things got dicey. A Joker cosplayer asked the writers why they would downplay Barbara Gordon, such a strong female character, and make her story more about the men in her life. According to Bleeding Cool reporter Jeremy Konrad, the writers insisted she was still a strong female character. Konrad, who’d already seen the film and didn’t agree, himself sarcastically shouted, “Yeah, by using sex and then pining for Bruce.”

That’s when co-screenwriter Brian Azzarello seemed to put it all out there. “Wanna say that again? Pussy?” he asked.

This is how professional writers in the industry act when receiving criticism? "Wanna say it again, pussy?"

Absolutely disgusting.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This is how professional writers in the industry act when receiving criticism? "Wanna say it again, pussy?"

Absolutely disgusting.

Amazing. Or rather, appalling.

Honestly... this was not hard to do. Adapt Killing Joke and flesh out Babs' character. Metaphorically, not freaking literally.

[Candy Kappa]

And... I'm no longer interested in this movie, good job DC.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And... I'm no longer interested in this movie, good job DC.

I think that's been the overwhelming reaction of a lot of Batman fans once they've heard the news.

You, me, Mikeandraph, PC... Screw this. I'll go watch "Under the Red Hood" again instead.

[MikeandRaph87]

They could have melded the Cormorant storyline from Detective Comics#490/491, 'Assassination of Batgirl' that was followed up in Batgirl Special#1 one-shot, 'The Last Batgirl Story' to add more character to Barbara Gordon. A final scene could have been a shot of Barbara in a clocktower command post stating she can be shot down but she comes back stronger or something to that effect.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/cormorant/4005-71418/

[Netkeeper]

This is how professional writers in the industry act when receiving criticism? "Wanna say it again, pussy?"

Absolutely disgusting.
Oh my god, actual children.

[Skinrash]

Alan Moore is super nitpicky about adaptations of his work. I doubt additions like a Bruce and Babs sex scene is gonna win any favors in his book.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if backlash will cause them to make a new version of the movie omitting the Batman/Babara sex.

[MikeandRaph87]

I wonder if backlash will cause them to make a new version of the movie omitting the Batman/Babara sex.

How can that be worked around? It appears to be a front and center plot device!

[Skinrash]

I might be fast forwarding to the comic-based part of the film myself.

Bruce Timm has been a consistently good content creator for twenty years, but in recent years he has become a bit hit and miss. There was that Gods and Monsters cartoon about Harley which was basically just a sleazy and gory exploitation movie and now this.

I'm no prude, I've enjoyed the heck outta cheap slasher films for instance. But I watch movies like that with low to no expectations, I always go into a BT film expecting something more tasteful and with more art in it.

[Spike Spiegel]

Did he "promote" a lesbian relationship, or did he just show two girls having a good time together on crime sprees?

There's a lot of subtext regarding that in the opening scene of "Holiday Knights," the TNBA Christmas special.