Would the turtles still be as popular if they were females?

[aliena]

I was playing a game in the car with another turtle fan and we were speculating what other animals could have pulled off the turtles as successfully.

We know about frogs since they had an episode or two in there, but I don't think they would be as cool as TMNT. But what if they were female turtles who were more interested in clothes and makeup? Would that still be as popular? What about two boy and two girl turtles? That would have made the situation different in a lot of ways.

What about rabbits? What if they weren't ninjas? There are only so many animals that would be as cool as turtles. Alligators maybe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Gators. Armadillos? They have plated armor. There are a lot of possibilities, but the turtles just fit. It's like it was fate all along.

[Metalwolf]

They could work as females, but they'd be a bit bigger, since female Turtles are often bigger then males. They could still still be as popular- but the major problem is that all too often whenever shows write females they are a bit stereotypical or they really sex them up. If those traps were avoided though, you could actually have 'serious' fun female Turtles.

P.S, I did see gender-swapped Turtles, Shredder, Rocksteady and Bebop on Deviant Art. There were a few duds, but there a few artists that really made fem!Shredder and the fem!Turtles look quite badass. Same with fem!Bebop and fem!Rocksteady, the concept can actually be made to work.

[CyberCubed]

They would basically be anime magical girl stereotypes:

Leonardo = Sailor Moon

Raphael = Rogue (X-men) or Misty (Pokemon)

Donatello = Every nerdy female character out there

Michelangelo = the typical fun kawaii desu anime moe girl that anime fans have posters on their walls of.

[IndigoErth]

But what if they were female turtles who were more interested in clothes and makeup?
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/facedesk_fail_143.png

Not that there's anything wrong with those topics if that's your thing, but given that would probably automatically be marketer/writer's thinking because they think girls exist in only a very small box of interests... Why not they're girls with, I dunno, a personality like Karai? Instead of being like April on prom night.

Stick with stereotypes and they'd never had made it very far, being a mutant Turtle can only carry it so far.

[DarkLightDragon]

Why do that when the Internet has already provided as to how that would look?:P

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Considering no one had the balls to create a cartoon starring four female ninjas, let alone four female ninja turtles, there's no way popularity would've skyrocketed.

It was the 90's, cartoons were still almost entirely "for boys." One main female character per series, be it April O'Neil or Jessie Bannon.

[plastroncafe]

I think this all depends on when we're talking about.

In the 80s the show probably would have looked a whole lot more like Jem and the Holograms, and probably wouldn't have skyrocketed no matter how clever or well written it was...because things that cater to girls aren't worth as much as things catered to boys.

If you're talking about now, the style would probably be more Lauren Faust in design, and if it were clever and well made...then it'd be popular, mostly because little boys would be trying to steal it and make it their own. Because things that cater to girls aren't worth as much as things that cater to boys.

What I think is fantastic is that thanks to Sophie Campbell...we have both! A fan-made female-centric turtles that has the aesthetic of Jem and the Holograms. And that's pretty damn fantastic.

[Prowler]

Considering no one had the balls to create a cartoon starring four female ninjas, let alone four female ninja turtles, there's no way popularity would've skyrocketed.

It was the 90's, cartoons were still almost entirely "for boys." One main female character per series, be it April O'Neil or Jessie Bannon.
Well Sailor Moon worked and it's form the 90s, so I don't see why the Ninja Turtles could have not. I see your point and SM might be the exception that proves the rule, but I could see 4 female Turtles working with some reworking and different writting into it. But we'll never know how it'd have turned out anyway, so it's kinda pointless to discuss this possible scenario.

[plastroncafe]

Well Sailor Moon worked and it's form the 90s, so I don't see why the Ninja Turtles could have not. I see your point and SM might be the exception that proves the rule, but I could see 4 female Turtles working with some reworking and different writting into it. But we'll never know how it'd have turned out anyway, so it's kinda pointless to discuss this possible scenario.

I think the unspoken assumption here is that the cartoon in question be made in the States. I'd imagine there's less of a financial risk involved in obtaining the rights for an already made show and then dubbing it into English for an American audience as opposed to creating a show from scratch.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think the unspoken assumption here is that the cartoon in question be made in the States. I'd imagine there's less of a financial risk involved in obtaining the rights for an already made show and then dubbing it into English for an American audience as opposed to creating a show from scratch.

The unspoken assumption is that the original creators are still Eastman and Laird, which means more than likely, yeah, US-produced.

[Prowler]

I think the unspoken assumption here is that the cartoon in question be made in the States. I'd imagine there's less of a financial risk involved in obtaining the rights for an already made show and then dubbing it into English for an American audience as opposed to creating a show from scratch.
Sailor Moon was a success everywhere. Not just in Japan and the USA. If a japanese show starring girls can be a hit worldwide, why couldn't an american one be? And japanese society is thought as being less "progressive" when it comes to gender equality than most western ones are. So I dont' see how, with the right tools and strategy, an american show starring a bunch of female heroes couldn't have worked out fairly well in the 90s. I mean, the Power Puff Girls are from the 90s, too. Okay, they weren't as successful as the Fred Wolf series was, but it's not like they were a blip in the radar. And it's been remade once(an anime) and is gonna be remade again.

[aliena]

Now that I think about it, four girl foxes like Alopex could have a shot. If they were similar to the guys in personality and they all were ninja's or at least talented at fighting, but looked like Alopex, it might have a shot.

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

[Technogeek29]

Now that I think about it, four girl foxes like Alopex could have a shot. If they were similar to the guys in personality and they all were ninja's or at least talented at fighting, but looked like Alopex, it might have a shot.

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

Short answer...yes Adding breast or hair is trying too hard in my book.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Now that I think about it, four girl foxes like Alopex could have a shot. If they were similar to the guys in personality and they all were ninja's or at least talented at fighting, but looked like Alopex, it might have a shot.

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

"Shell boobs" don't bother me. After all, mutagen causes animals to take on anthropomorphic humanoid features. Humans have, we've all noticed, mammaries.

With all the "Radioactive Kung Fu Hamsters" and "Martial Arts Kangaroos" and other parodies that came out after TMNT, I'm very surprised no one did a gender-swapped parody.

[Technogeek29]

"Shell boobs" don't bother me. After all, mutagen causes animals to take on anthropomorphic humanoid features. Humans have, we've all noticed, mammaries.

With all the "Radioactive Kung Fu Hamsters" and "Martial Arts Kangaroos" and other parodies that came out after TMNT, I'm very surprised no one did a gender-swapped parody.

I was always under the impression of humanoid but not so much human characteristics? But then again how do you explain their diet?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was always under the impression of humanoid but not so much human characteristics? But then again how do you explain their diet?

What's there to explain about their diet?

[Technogeek29]

What's there to explain about their diet?

Red Ear sliders normally eat plants fish and decaying items found native to their habitat. Splinter would be fine as he is scavenger, so from worms, fish and various plants to Pizza, nachos and Ice cream? I start to raise a brow.:lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Red Ear sliders normally eat plants fish and decaying items found native to their habitat. Splinter would be fine as he is scavenger, so from worms, fish and various plants to Pizza, nachos and Ice cream? I start to raise a brow.:lol:

Again, mutation. You can handwave a lot by referring it back to their mutation. :tlol:

Besides, nobody wants to see the Turtles eating worms and algae. And also, how are pizza chains supposed to cash in on corporate mascots without TMNT?!

[Technogeek29]

Again, mutation. You can handwave a lot by referring it back to their mutation. :tlol:

Besides, nobody wants to see the Turtles eating worms and algae. And also, how are pizza chains supposed to cash in on corporate mascots without TMNT?!

And this my friend is why I'm not in Marketing I would run us into the ground for being to logical. The more useless crap you up sale the more they will buy:P

[plastroncafe]

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

Yes.
In fact...I'd prefer it more if there were no "othering" tells to speak of at all.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And this my friend is why I'm not in Marketing I would run us into the ground for being to logical. The more useless crap you up sale the more they will buy:P

Mr Technogeek, please. We're not selling sh!t; these are high-quality all-natural facial cleansing mud masks!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Maybe if they were done with MINIMAL shell-boobage and maybe just hair like Mona Lisa and a more slender and feminine shape, it'd work well. Or you could go a more realistic route shape-wise and make them a bit bigger and more "butch" gals. Like She-Thing or She-Hulk! (Yes, there IS a She-Thing. She was even a wrestler in the Marvel Universe in the special division for powered athletes.) I could see them as turtle versions of Jersey Red or Abby Finn- that could be kind of cool! (but still keep the basic personalities of the originals- just feminized a bit.)

[IndigoErth]

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?
Honestly, look at Tigress from Kung Fu Panda, it works. She's probably one of the ONLY anthropomorphic female characters I can even recall that was NOT given human-woman features or accessories as a way of making sure we know she's female.

And you know what? Thanks to the way society is and what we're made to expect, at first did I not know she's a she? Yeah. But guess what, due to voice, name, and people saying "she/her," I found out really quickly. Once I knew, I knew, no big deal; I haven't gone around confused long term or anything.

Whether they give a character boobs or not... Meh. I can take it or leave it. But it just looks stranger on a reptile than it does a mammal, esp one with chest and abdominal plates and said boobs are just there for...no reason. (Other than "look it's a girl!" because people are apparently assumed to be too dumb to pick up on that without them.)


If male characters were treated the way female ones are... near all would be disproportionate muscle men and wear bow ties, just to be sure we understand that they are male.

Imagine the Turtles with bow ties to make sure we get it. :lol: I mean that would be cute, but it sounds silly if that was the normal expectation to signify their gender.

[plastroncafe]

Culture dictates that unless we're specifically shown otherwise, everything is male. Female is an outlier...even though we're usually the majority.

One of the many things I loved about Avatar: The Last Airbender, is the broad range of female character designs, most of which were devoid of things like lipstick and cleavage.

Aang and Sokka wore makeup nearly a season before Katara did.

[pennydreadful]

Sailor Moon was a success everywhere. Not just in Japan and the USA. If a japanese show starring girls can be a hit worldwide, why couldn't an american one be? And japanese society is thought as being less "progressive" when it comes to gender equality than most western ones are.

Keeping in mind that the dub of Sailor Moon was straightwashed and completely altered/erased all of the gay, lesbian, trans and genderbending characters (including making Sailors Uranus and Neptune cousins in the US, instead of lovers like they were in the original, portraying Zoisite as being a straight woman when he is actually a gay man, portraying Fisheye as being a straight cis woman when they were gay or potentially trans), I'd have to say that the Japanese version was actually much more progressive. I'd also argue that if the SM dub hadn't been changed to be so "child friendly", it may not have been the success that it was in the US.

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

I don't think just because someone is female, they should automatically have breasts. A person's femininity is not defined by the presence of breasts (or lack thereof) - if a woman has cancer and has a mastectomy, she is still female. Her breasts being there or not being there don't make her less of a woman. In reptiles, there is literally no functional purpose in having plastron boobs - it's basically just being put in there so people know "which one is the girl one", thereby reinforcing the "girls = boobs and eyelashes and bows" trope. It's not that boobs or eyelashes or bows are bad, but when they're the default markers (and only option) for what is usually the sole female character, it's problematic.

Also, considering the fact that we're dealing with non-human species, sexual dimorphism can vary greatly. In many species, the females are bigger than the males. In some species, sexual dimorphism isn't present at all.

I dunno, I just find it irritating that we automatically have to slap some obvious "this is female"/"this is male" marker on something - society shouldn't be so obsessed with putting everything into a clearly marked gender box labelled "girl things" and "boy things".

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdyjne3kmb1qbm555o1_500.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VQuGJUvKc1w/U-kN4MpbanI/AAAAAAAAAig/fT-1B9PxMD0/s1600/gender-box2.gif

Culture dictates that unless we're specifically shown otherwise, everything is male.

And white. Don't forget white.

[Candy Kappa]

Certainly. The Turtles as we know them don't have any male Turtle traits, besides maybe the Nick Turtled as their shells have a more concave plastron (except for Mikey... Hmmm) which is something male turtles have. But they don't have long nails being Sliders, usually they lack tails, and when they have tails they are actually relatively short for being males.

If TMNT had started out as girls, we'd not have any real female turtle traits to go by, as there are none for the TMNT we know. Had the TMNT been female, we'd be speculating about how a male humanoid turtle would look like and muse that they'd be 4 feet tall, have long nails and long tails.

For all we know the Turtles could be females, but raised as boys, cause Splinter may not be all that good at sexing turtles, juvenile turtles at that.

As for a female TMNT. Maybe, who knows. I'd love them.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

For all we know the Turtles could be females, but raised as boys, cause Splinter may not be all that good at sexing turtles, juvenile turtles at that.

:teek:

Wouldn't THAT be a plot twist?

:tlol:

[Duke Nukem]

Since turtles are reptiles and not mammals, female turtles, humanoid or otherwise, should not have boobs (aka mammaries). If we're talking movies or TV, they could show that they're female by using female voices. For comics, it would have to mentioned some other way, giving them female names would be a good start.

As for the original question, no, they wouldn't be as popular. If something is about fighting and martial arts, many more guys than girls will be interested in it. At the very least, the writing would have to be completely changed in such a way that it's no longer the TMNT that we all know them as.

[plastroncafe]

And white. Don't forget white.

And straight. And cis.
#notallturtles

[Refractive Reflections]

Sailor Moon was a success everywhere. Not just in Japan and the USA. If a japanese show starring girls can be a hit worldwide, why couldn't an american one be? And japanese society is thought as being less "progressive" when it comes to gender equality than most western ones are. So I dont' see how, with the right tools and strategy, an american show starring a bunch of female heroes couldn't have worked out fairly well in the 90s. I mean, the Power Puff Girls are from the 90s, too. Okay, they weren't as successful as the Fred Wolf series was, but it's not like they were a blip in the radar. And it's been remade once(an anime) and is gonna be remade again.

Although Sailor Moon may have had a variety of female characters and personalities, in my opinion, I don't think it should be used completely as an example of being "progressive" because many of the characters still contain the pervasive Lolita image. I understand that heroes/heroines are traditionally in shape and good-looking, but even in the intro, any squatting or crouching position the protagonists make, their legs are strategically placed to avoid flashing themselves toward the audience with the microskirts they wear. :lol:

...I don't know, it kinda subtly suggests to girls that "skimpy attire" translates to "female empowerment".

[BubblyShell22]

If we're talking about female Turtles who talk about clothes and makeup, then forget it. We don't need that sh*t on TV. As long as they don't have shell boobs and they can fight, then it could work. But then again, what's the point? Why should we have to change them when they're fine just the way they are?

Edit: I think a better idea would be to have maybe a parallel world where the Turtles are female. That would be interesting. But I don't want them to fall in love with their female counterpart. That's just too cliche.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If we're talking about female Turtles who talk about clothes and makeup, then forget it. We don't need that sh*t on TV. As long as they don't have shell boobs and they can fight, then it could work. But then again, what's the point? Why should we have to change them when they're fine just the way they are?

Edit: I think a better idea would be to have maybe a parallel world where the Turtles are female. That would be interesting. But I don't want them to fall in love with their female counterpart. That's just too cliche.

Not too mention creepily incestuous and narcissistic.

[jenna]

Sorry, no.

Two aspects make the turtles popular: characterisation and action. The majority of female characters are really rubbishly handled on kids TV - often appearing two-dimensional and stereotypical. Strong characterisation would be difficult. It is also less likely that fellas who watch for the action would be less able to identify with female characters, so at least 50% of the current audience would be alienated. Most female comic book characters are overtly sexualised - evidence that there is little appetite for female characters with any real substance. I have no faith that anyone could successfully write compelling female versions of the turtles. Their current male characters are part of the property's charm. TMNT would lose that charm if the characters had less substance.

[Prowler]

Sorry, no.

Two aspects make the turtles popular: characterisation and action. The majority of female characters are really rubbishly handled on kids TV - often appearing two-dimensional and stereotypical. Strong characterisation would be difficult. It is also less likely that fellas who watch for the action would be less able to identify with female characters, so at least 50% of the current audience would be alienated. Most female comic book characters are overtly sexualised - evidence that there is little appetite for female characters with any real substance. I have no faith that anyone could successfully write compelling female versions of the turtles. Their current male characters are part of the property's charm. TMNT would lose that charm if the characters had less substance.
Well, if TMNT were primarily aimed at girls and written and created by women, I guess things wouldn't be like that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Certainly. The Turtles as we know them don't have any male Turtle traits, besides maybe the Nick Turtled as their shells have a more concave plastron (except for Mikey... Hmmm) which is something male turtles have. But they don't have long nails being Sliders, usually they lack tails, and when they have tails they are actually relatively short for being males.

If TMNT had started out as girls, we'd not have any real female turtle traits to go by, as there are none for the TMNT we know. Had the TMNT been female, we'd be speculating about how a male humanoid turtle would look like and muse that they'd be 4 feet tall, have long nails and long tails.

For all we know the Turtles could be females, but raised as boys, cause Splinter may not be all that good at sexing turtles, juvenile turtles at that.

As for a female TMNT. Maybe, who knows. I'd love them.



You know, I've theorized that they keep their nails short intentionally, to avoid accidental injuries from claws during sparring. As for the tails, maybe they are short due to the mutation changing their spinal structure to accommodate a bipedal mode of movement? At any rate, I'm pretty sure that even if Splinter didn't know much about sexing turtles (that sounds so dirty, LOL!) he would've figured it out the instant they hit puberty and started exhibiting typical male behavior (IE- penile dropping, heightened aggression and territorial behavior, or "looking for mates", albeit subconsciously- also known as self-service....)



:teek:

Wouldn't THAT be a plot twist?

:tlol:


I have a "twist" in my main fic of Donnie actually being hermie- but only Splinter knows. (Until it is revealed later in the story- but only to Mikey!) Splinter simply raised him/her as a "boy" to avoid confusion and awkwardness between the four. Unfortunately, he's non-functional on both sides, thus making him effectively neuter. But Donnie still considers himself a male in spite of having BOTH parts!

[aliena]

I don't really remember what I thought of Venus when I first saw her, but I came to realize that the braid from her mask was supposed to give an idea of hair. I did think she should have some form of clothes to cover her chest, but the idea of her boobs being her plastron was just not quite right.

When I first saw a picture of 2k3's Renet I thought she'd be this tough sounding girl who could kick rear, but then she ended up being ditzy and goofy? She wasn't a sex object nor did the guys act like she was sexy. They were endeared to her and actually cared about her by the end of her time on the show.

If I recall, she was even prettier with her hair down and regular cave woman clothes on. What happened to her with the guys during those months they were trapped together would make an excellent fanfic. :trazz: Sorry, I had to go there.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't really remember what I thought of Venus when I first saw her, but I came to realize that the braid from her mask was supposed to give an idea of hair. I did think she should have some form of clothes to cover her chest, but the idea of her boobs being her plastron was just not quite right.

When I first saw a picture of 2k3's Renet I thought she'd be this tough sounding girl who could kick rear, but then she ended up being ditzy and goofy? She wasn't a sex object nor did the guys act like she was sexy. They were endeared to her and actually cared about her by the end of her time on the show.

If I recall, she was even prettier with her hair down and regular cave woman clothes on. What happened to her with the guys during those months they were trapped together would make an excellent fanfic. :trazz: Sorry, I had to go there.

If I start hearing about an increase in Renet DeviartArt posts, I'll know who's to blame. :tlol:

I have a "twist" in my main fic of Donnie actually being hermie- but only Splinter knows. (Until it is revealed later in the story- but only to Mikey!) Splinter simply raised him/her as a "boy" to avoid confusion and awkwardness between the four. Unfortunately, he's non-functional on both sides, thus making him effectively neuter. But Donnie still considers himself a male in spite of having BOTH parts!

Not a fan of that idea. Not personally attacking or criticizing, you understand, just saying that twist does not interest me at all.

[IndigoErth]

Meeting an alternate dimension opposite gender version of themselves sounds...awkward.

Either risks feeling an uncomfortable and morally objectionable connection to their other self...ORRRR, preferably, find out that someone otherwise exactly like them would drive them completely crazy and each go home with a better understanding of what they put their brothers through. :tlol:

Sorry, no.

Two aspects make the turtles popular: characterisation and action. The majority of female characters are really rubbishly handled on kids TV - often appearing two-dimensional and stereotypical. Strong characterisation would be difficult. It is also less likely that fellas who watch for the action would be less able to identify with female characters, so at least 50% of the current audience would be alienated. Most female comic book characters are overtly sexualised - evidence that there is little appetite for female characters with any real substance. I have no faith that anyone could successfully write compelling female versions of the turtles. Their current male characters are part of the property's charm. TMNT would lose that charm if the characters had less substance.
Which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, I doubt I'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.

If I start hearing about an increase in Renet DeviartArt posts, I'll know who's to blame. :tlol:
Now lets be fair, half of the blame will soon belong to Nick. :lol:

[plastroncafe]

which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, i doubt i'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.


^^^^^^
this

[MsMarvelDuckie]

If I start hearing about an increase in Renet DeviartArt posts, I'll know who's to blame. :tlol:

Not a fan of that idea. Not personally attacking or criticizing, you understand, just saying that twist does not interest me at all.


Well, it's not for everyone, obviously. It was just my way of explaining some of the odd quirks of his character in the OT series, without going the obvious route of making him gay. Things like why his voice was so much higher in pitch, his wild mood swings, his extreme obsession with mechanical or electronic things (immersing himself in his lab to avoid dealing with others), his apparent lack of interest in girls, and why his bandana was purple. (Since it's a mix of blue and red- two gender-oriented colors....)

[Powder]

I'm not gay but I feel like I'd be offended by that assessment of Donatello if I were... Well, hell, I kinda am anyway.

[SixthTurtle]

But what if they were female turtles who were more interested in clothes and makeup? Would that still be as popular?

They're still ninjas, right? Not just girl turtles who do girly things? Who knows? Afterall, the turtles were made as a joke. So maybe this version of the turtles may have made it too. Maybe, maybe not.

What about two boy and two girl turtles? That would have made the situation different in a lot of ways.

We'd just be used to it by now.

What about rabbits? What if they weren't ninjas? There are only so many animals that would be as cool as turtles. Alligators maybe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Gators. Armadillos? They have plated armor. There are a lot of possibilities, but the turtles just fit. It's like it was fate all along.

Alligators wouldn't have worked. They come off as too heavy and aggressive to be ninjas. Rabbits, frogs, lizards, or foxes would work IMO.

[aliena]

Meeting an alternate dimension opposite gender version of themselves sounds...awkward.

Either risks feeling an uncomfortable and morally objectionable connection to their other self...ORRRR, preferably, find out that someone otherwise exactly like them would drive them completely crazy and each go home with a better understanding of what they put their brothers through. :tlol:


Which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, I doubt I'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.


Now lets be fair, half of the blame will soon belong to Nick. :lol:

I doubt Nick will come even close to what I'm imagining..;) DA here I come! JK!

[PangolinFeets]

I saw a short fan comic with female Splinter and female turtles and it seemed pretty cool. After seeing Nick produce things like Korra, which features a predominantly-female and totally badass cast, I think it could be great.

Basically all the shows I enjoyed most as a kid were predominately-male action shows like TMNT, Thundercats, Gargoyles, He-Man, Batman, Voltron...
I think the exceptions are Power Rangers and X-Men.
I didn't think much of it when I was younger, because I think I just assumed that girly things had to be girly even though I wasn't so I just never watched anything like that. I ended up kinda hating female representation in most things because I had taught myself that it could only be manifested in a way I wasn't interested in.

At any rate, I think it'd make an interesting and funny episode of the new show.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm not gay but I feel like I'd be offended by that assessment of Donatello if I were... Well, hell, I kinda am anyway.


How is that offensive? I was just taking the traits he showed in the show and finding a unique way of explaining them without going the "he's GAY!" trope route. Of all of them, he was the one who interacted with humans in general the least (and only rarely showed interest in females) and his voice was one that was not what anyone would call "masculine", which always sounded odd to me. As for the purple thing- well, we have Tinky-Winky to thank for that trope, I believe. But blue being a color "for boys" and red(aka pink) being "for girls", it just seemed like a natural logical reason for that choice of color for a closet hermie. Had nothing to do with him being gay at all- I was going at it from a logical position of how he might express his "other side" subtly without drawing attention to it. And why he was so different form the others to begin with.

[Jester]

QU0tU9iAekE

[Leo656]

I'm stayin' outta this sh*t, I just LOVE it when Jester posts that. :tgrin:

What the heck, ROLL IT AGAIN! :lol: Nobody cares, just do it. Do it because I asked you to. :tgrin:

[Jester]

QU0tU9iAekE
Sure thing, boss....wait....

[Powder]

How is that offensive?

For one thing, you assign homosexuality to him (you said it was the obvious choice) for reasons that are essentially rooted in stereotypes of gay men (high pitched voices, mood swings, lacking in masculinity, hiding, a taste for "feminine" colors, etc). That's completely ridiculous & offensive.

Besides that, being true to yourself without giving a damn for what others think (as in, not masking your voice or avoiding apparel in your favorite color despite an alleged stigma) is pretty masculine to me. Being born with a high pitched voice doesn't make you girly or attracted to the same sex. There are some super burly masculine ass gay dudes out there, & just the same you'll find plenty of flamboyant straights. Putting people (or turtles) into boxes like that is a backwards & counter productive line of thinking.

I'm a hermit crab who gets heavily into tech, doesn't really pursue romance, loves the color purple, gets moody, & is somewhat soft spoken, does that make me seem "obviously" gay?

[Leo656]

Nah, dude. I have impeccable Gaydar. For one thing, you can always tell by the handshake. :tgrin: You don't trip it at all.

Donnie does, though. :trazz:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

For one thing, you assign homosexuality to him (you said it was the obvious choice) for reasons that are essentially rooted in stereotypes of gay men (high pitched voices, mood swings, lacking in masculinity, hiding, a taste for "feminine" colors, etc). That's completely ridiculous & offensive.

Besides that, being true to yourself without giving a damn for what others think (as in, not masking your voice or avoiding apparel in your favorite color despite an alleged stigma) is pretty masculine to me. Being born with a high pitched voice doesn't make you girly or attracted to the same sex. There are some super burly masculine ass gay dudes out there, & just the same you'll find plenty of flamboyant straights. Putting people (or turtles) into boxes like that is a backwards & counter productive line of thinking.

I'm a hermit crab who gets heavily into tech, doesn't really pursue romance, loves the color purple, gets moody, & is somewhat soft spoken, does that make me seem "obviously" gay?


Were you even paying attention? I said I didn't want to go THAT route, because it's been done to death, and yes, it IS a tired stereotype. That was the POINT of NOT using that as an explanation for his quirks! IT's an obvious trope that plenty of other writers have used (if you read any fan-fiction, you'll quickly see what I mean) and using those traits to describe gays in general IS overdone. Which was why I DIDN'T do it. Geez, read what's actually IN the post, not what YOU think it means. Instead, I gave him an actual "feminine" side that made sense in context of that, without him being gay AT ALL. In fact, he DOES have an appreciation for females in the fic (as far as he's able) but simply can't DO anything about it, so he doesn't really bother with it at all. In essence, I made him an asexual male, but with a "plumbing mix-up" that also qualified him as female (on a technicality only). What the heck does that have to do with him being gay? The POINT was that I wanted to have him be "different" in some way, (in accordance with his OT personality and mannerisms) WITHOUT him being so blatantly stereotyped. Stop putting things into it that were never there. It's annoying.

[Powder]

What's annoying is your use of constant use of caps lock, & that it's used in place of italics, though that too, in such excess, would be annoying.

What's really irksome is that you're still blind to the fact that in using his quirks as the baseline for any sort of non-binary persons personality, you're effectively treating them as stereotypes all the same, whether it's being gay or something else. "He's this way, & that's clearly indicative of an issue with gender/sexuality!"

If there's such a thing as giving a microcosm of a rats ass about your fan-fiction, that's what I give. Point is, you're treating real people's often painful circumstances as a fun bit of flare for the "weird" character.

[Jester]

So what you're saying is you made him "different" via stereotypes, but just didn't go for the super-obvious difference?

[Metalwolf]

For one thing, you assign homosexuality to him (you said it was the obvious choice) for reasons that are essentially rooted in stereotypes of gay men (high pitched voices, mood swings, lacking in masculinity, hiding, a taste for "feminine" colors, etc). That's completely ridiculous & offensive.

Besides that, being true to yourself without giving a damn for what others think (as in, not masking your voice or avoiding apparel in your favorite color despite an alleged stigma) is pretty masculine to me. Being born with a high pitched voice doesn't make you girly or attracted to the same sex. There are some super burly masculine ass gay dudes out there, & just the same you'll find plenty of flamboyant straights. Putting people (or turtles) into boxes like that is a backwards & counter productive line of thinking.

I'm a hermit crab who gets heavily into tech, doesn't really pursue romance, loves the color purple, gets moody, & is somewhat soft spoken, does that make me seem "obviously" gay?Actually, she's writing him as Intersex, not gay. She inferring that due to popular culture's ideas of the color purple, and high pitched voices, that people would assume that he was gay, due to these popular culture stereotypes. Thus why she's writing him as Intersex, not gay. It's not breaking the stereotype, but it's not confirming it either.

Someone mentioned about males not identifying with female characters, I'm wondering if it's not because male characters are the 'norm,' while female characters are 'abnormal' and jarring simply due to not being done as much? We rarely have female protagonists in video games, most 'action orientated' things feature male protagonists, and most action heroes are male. I think the only way to combat this is simply to create more female characters, not just bemoan the lack of them. I'd say just create them, but making sure they don't fall into easy stereotypes like sexing them up (a common tendency in comic books) or having them fall prey to predictable tropes like always wanting to shop and wanting to get married and have babies.

[Powder]

Actually, she's writing him as Intersex, not gay. She inferring that due to popular culture's ideas of the color purple, and high pitched voices, that people would assume that he was gay, due to these popular culture stereotypes. Thus why she's writing him as Intersex, not gay. It's not breaking the stereotype, but it's not confirming it either.

It'd be like If I wanted to write about a drugdealing street thug, & rather than going with the "obvious choice" of making him black, I made him Hispanic. 'Cause, ya know, that's totally not the same thing!

Oh, and they exist in droves- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_featuring_female_protagonists Whether or not they become popular is another matter, though. I highly recommend Portal, Mighty Switch Force, & Metroid, for starters.

[Leo656]

Thread needs more Vinnie Vegas.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x310/The_Ultimate_Wrestling_Gallery/Kevin%20Nash/VinnieVegas001.jpg

Nailed It.

[Powder]

He wears pink, can't make eye contact, & has an aversion to sunlight, he must be a hermaphrodite!

[Leo656]

https://whatistheexcel.com/wooobooru/_images/d7a464d9f72f0eda7828b4bbb8881104/7655%20-%20autoplay_gif%20gif%20kevin_nash%20wcw.gif
Big Daddy Cool is Speechless.

[Jester]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/d3e5724180d876d04f9cc5dbd5c21c7f/tumblr_nlvh13IK221r8dxfio1_r1_400.gif

[Leo656]

https://whatistheexcel.com/wooobooru/_images/36d326263fe4cfcd657a9b46177f4844/9224%20-%20Big_Show%20Souled_Out%20autoplay_gif%20gif%20ja ckknife_powerbomb%20kevin_nash%20powerbomb%20refer ee%20the_giant%20wcw.gif
^^^ What we did to this thread. :tcool:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

What's annoying is your use of constant use of caps lock, & that it's used in place of italics, though that too, in such excess, would be annoying.

What's really irksome is that you're still blind to the fact that in using his quirks as the baseline for any sort of non-binary persons personality, you're effectively treating them as stereotypes all the same, whether it's being gay or something else. "He's this way, & that's clearly indicative of an issue with gender/sexuality!"

If there's such a thing as giving a microcosm of a rats ass about your fan-fiction, that's what I give. Point is, you're treating real people's often painful circumstances as a fun bit of flare for the "weird" character.


Oh, I'm sorry, was I supposed to be upset by that? Honestly, I don't really give a flying fig if YOU cared or not, but I felt it was relevant to the discussion of turtles as female (since in that fic he sort of is). Donnie being (part) female as a way of explaining some of his traits in THAT version simply seemed like a fun twist to his character, and it added a lot of tension and drama to the story because no one else knew about it. He kept it secret (on Splinter's advice) to avoid awkwardness with his brothers, who he felt would treat him differently if they knew.

It was hardly a stereotype, in any case. His hermaphroditism caused strain between him and Mikey both before and after he found out, and also caused tension with the other two later when he was forced to hide his real reason for not telling them about the favor Mikey had asked him. (He refused, and was afraid Mikey would try to out him over it.) So there was a lot more going on than just some dumb "oh look, he's feminine" crap. Actually, he was neither. But since he was PART female, he had a hormonal imbalance that caused some of the traits seen in the series. How is this a stereotype? It was a medical condition from having two separate genders (as a chimera with both reproductive organs, but no ability to use either one). I just used those quirks as a jumping-off point for the whole thing. Or to put it another way, I looked for things about his character that could fit in with what I wanted to do, that could be considered "feminine" under the right circumstances.

And FYI, I use the caps because it's faster and easier than having to stop and use the italics or bold inserts for emphasis every time I want something to stand out. If it annoys YOU, well, if there's such a thing as giving a microcosm of a rats ass about what you think, that's what I give, too.


So what you're saying is you made him "different" via stereotypes, but just didn't go for the super-obvious difference?


It wasn't even a stereotype, actually, it was something subtle that I used in the tale to show why he felt the way he did about certain things and why he wasn't as hormonal as the others; outing himself to Mikey during a tense situation made for a family bonding moment and also later brought more tension when he thought Mikey might hold it over him to get what he wanted. I even used the hermie idea to poke fun at some of the T-cest tropes, by having him pretend to come on to Raph during a sparring match as a way to beat him. (It freaked him out, obviously. Leo too. Mikey just thought it was hilarious, since he already knew and put two and two together to figure out what was going on.) When he then tried the same thing on him, Mikey just tapped out from laughing so hard. Which annoyed Raph, since they were teaming up and it caused them to lose.

But no, it was anything BUT a stereotype in how it was used. Making him more "feminine" PHYSICALLY, gave his character some new dimensions that sent him in a different direction than most fics do, like crushing on April or going full gay, or anything else that has been done a million times. If you mean making him "different" physically, then yes, in some ways, he WAS, due to having a stronger dose of female hormones. Same mentally, though I made little mention of how it actually affected him other than a distinct lack of any sort of libido. The long and short of it was that his hormonal imbalance from being a chimera caused the personality quirks he had in the OT. It had nothing to do with using a stereotype as such, but using an imbalance to explain his differences. If anything, it was based more on a medical condition than a simple stereotype.

Basically, he was asexual, not gay, not feminine, or even bi or trans. He just HAPPENED to have the parts of BOTH. But for what it's worth, I really just wanted him to be the one turtle who was outside the issues that the others were dealing with- namely, mating season. Unfortunately, the best explanation for WHY he wouldn't be affected by that was to make him gay, which I didn't want to do. And since he was BASED on the OT version, that was the obvious choice, but was discarded as too clichéd. So, how to deal with Donnie being so unaffected in the middle of mating season when the others are all acting like (pardon the pun) animals? I did some digging into various disorders, and that popped out as a means of making him TRULY unique among them, as the only one who would never be able to physically experience ANY kind of arousal or romantic partnership. Rather than a simple stereotype (as with being gay), I went with a much more complex and painful situation for him.

[Leo656]

I totally missed Powder's note about caps lock instead of italics. I am so guilty and so not sorry. :lol: Unnecessary Arbitrary Emphasis 4 Life, Dawg. :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Word, Leo. LOL!

[Powder]

http://i61.tinypic.com/bflwdg.gif

[Leo656]

"OOF! A stiff jab, and just like that, the kid's back in this thing...!" :tgrin:

[CyberCubed]

I think this thread really needs to be locked.

[Metalwolf]

He wears pink, can't make eye contact, & has an aversion to sunlight, he must be a hermaphrodite!I thought the aversion to sunlight made him a vampire? :idea:

[Jester]

I now want a sparkley vamp version of Nash gif.

[Leo656]

I think this thread really needs to be locked.

You're Late.

I thought the aversion to sunlight made him a vampire? :idea:

Close. He's a Wizard.
http://cdn2-www.wrestlezone.com/assets/uploads/2009/11/file_187343_5_OZ.jpg

When he's a gambler he wears pink, when he's a wizard he wears green...

I now want a sparkley vamp version of Nash gif.

I have the Next Best Thing...
http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Nash-Hogan-finger-poke-gifs-001.gif

[Jester]

I have the Next Best Thing...
http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Nash-Hogan-finger-poke-gifs-001.gif
Yep...that's about the same thing. :D

[IndigoErth]

I have the Next Best Thing...
http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Nash-Hogan-finger-poke-gifs-001.gif
Damn those pressure points.

I think this thread really needs to be locked.
Don't think I've heard this for a while. People must be slacking off on making lockable ones lately.

[Leo656]

I also humbly submit this one:
http://i.imgflip.com/16esy.gif
EMERALD CITY SLAM, BITCH! :tlol::tlol::tlol:

(I wouldn't take it. Newp.)

[BubblyShell22]

Nice one, Leo.

As for what Duckie did, I wasn't offended by it when I read it. It actually made sense in the context of the story and she presented it well. Granted, not everyone will like it or think it's in good taste, but I was fine with it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This got so awesome, so quickly. DAMN. :tgrin:

So, basically, let's blame Duckie's fanfic as overcompensating for Nick cartoon Donnie having such an annoying mega-crush on April? Is that basically what this is boiling down to now?

Hmmm... now I'm thinking maybe Nick gave DONNIE the crush on April so that everyone won't see the purple turtle with the stick and go "Oh, he's a terrible fighter and wears purple? Must be gay!"

This thread went to "versus mode" so quickly. Now I may havta read Duckie's fanfic just to see what it's really about. Actually, Duckie, reading a bit more about what all was going on... would you mind posting a link? Not saying I'll definitely read it, but I might.

[jenna]

Just going to politely sidestep the last 2 pages of this thread.....

Well, if TMNT were primarily aimed at girls and written and created by women, I guess things wouldn't be like that.

Um... No. Because then it wouldn't be TMNT. Turtles is what it is and has a healthy mix of male and female viewers. What Indigo says (quoted below) is very true. Women are more likely to identify with male characters than men are to identify with female characters (the reasons for this are subject to ongoing debate). The question was would TMNT be as popular. My answer is: Not if men were completely alienated from the audience.





Which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, I doubt I'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.



Yes, very true.

I'm a woman and often relate to male characters who always seem a bit more realistic. It seems that lately female characters are only presented as victims or as sociopaths. No wonder they are unrelatable.

[plastroncafe]

They "could" be as popular with a mostly female staff, but it'd need to be a Steven Universe/My Little Pony type of situation.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It seems that lately female characters are only presented as victims.

Sadly, that's how it always has been. Back in the Middle Ages it was the fairytale. The dragon kidnaps the princess, and the young brave male knight must rescue her, kill the dragon and then they marry and he get the princess and the half kingdom. Then came the Grimm Brothers back in the early 19th century, writing down the fairytales spreading them for new generations. Then came Walt Disney bak in the 1930's something and made an animated film out of it, continuing the streotype again.

I hate the stereotype female heroes in comics often using magic, they sohuld also be able more to practice martial arts and kick back against bank robbers, streetgangs or extraterrestrials trying to attak Earth and kill all humans, and understand the physical laws of the Universe good. I liked Mona-Lisa, she studied some chemistry and physics at the university.

[PangolinFeets]

They "could" be as popular with a mostly female staff, but it'd need to be a Steven Universe/My Little Pony type of situation.

Steven Universe gives me hope for cartoons.

[Duke Nukem]

Maybe Donatello wears purple because the last person to touch him before he contacted the mutagen was a black guy. That's why he likes extra hot sauce on his pizza.

[IndigoErth]

http://i.imgur.com/10JKIqH.gif

Or a little girl since that's like the high ranking secondary color of the socially approved 'girl uniform.' Or anyone else.


Considering color choices though, if you avoid colors that look like two shades of the same color, skip using green for obvious reasons, and yellow because it can have negative connotations, and black/white/gray don't fit the color scheme/tone being aimed for, the choices get kind of limited. As long as it doesn't look too blue, purple stands on it's own pretty well and is likewise a deep color tone; with lots of great meanings associated with it.

[Candy Kappa]

They "could" be as popular with a mostly female staff, but it'd need to be a Steven Universe/My Little Pony type of situation.

a fandom invaded by Bronies and Gemtlemen?

*shudder*

[Papenbrook]

This thread needs to be locked.

[plastroncafe]

a fandom invaded by Bronies and Gemtlemen?

*shudder*

Bronies I like, it's the Bronies in Trilbies who can go pound sand.
As for Gemtlemen, no such thing exists. No matter how hard those poor boys try, they just don't. Even the creators are against them.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This thread needs to be locked.

Nah. There could still be some gold yet left in this rocks to be mined...

[Leo656]

Nah. There could still be some gold yet left in this rocks to be mined...

Yeah, hi, sorry, I was at work.

This thread needs to be locked.

GIMMICK INFRINGEMENT motherf***er! I call Gimmick Infringement. That is a "Drop-You-On-Your-Head"-worthy offense in MY sport, hepcat. You owe CyberCubed an apology like, yesterday, or I'm comin' to your house. No foolin'.

Maybe Donatello wears purple because the last person to touch him before he contacted the mutagen was a black guy. That's why he likes extra hot sauce on his pizza.

:tlol: Cut to a shot of Donnie opening the mini-fridge in his lab, and it's full of Grape Drink. :tlol: Not even Grape Soda... Grape Drink, son! :tlol::tlol::tlol:

Swear to God, my best friend loves that sh*t. I always give him dirty looks but he loves it. :lol:

On the other hand... I'm pretty sure Donatello can swim. :tgrin: :tcouch:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

This got so awesome, so quickly. DAMN. :tgrin:

So, basically, let's blame Duckie's fanfic as overcompensating for Nick cartoon Donnie having such an annoying mega-crush on April? Is that basically what this is boiling down to now?

Hmmm... now I'm thinking maybe Nick gave DONNIE the crush on April so that everyone won't see the purple turtle with the stick and go "Oh, he's a terrible fighter and wears purple? Must be gay!"

This thread went to "versus mode" so quickly. Now I may havta read Duckie's fanfic just to see what it's really about. Actually, Duckie, reading a bit more about what all was going on... would you mind posting a link? Not saying I'll definitely read it, but I might.


LOL to that idea. Actually, the entire thing was MOSTLY based on the OT episode "Donatello's Degree", and the premise that the professor from the university he got his degree from was actually (sort of) right when he mistook him for a girl based on his name. Since I had already been playing with the notion, that premise just cinched the idea for me. (It gets a mention in the tale that maybe he was right after all, and raised the question of Splinter possibly giving him that specific name on purpose....)

Anyway, Cylons, here's a link to the chapter where it gets discussed, if you're really curious. The part with Donnie's reveal is toward the end, after Mikey and the new clan-mate return to the lair after their escape from the Technodrome.

Link: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9377718/14/Love-Is-Shell

[Duke Nukem]

:tlol: Cut to a shot of Donnie opening the mini-fridge in his lab, and it's full of Grape Drink. :tlol: Not even Grape Soda... Grape Drink, son! :tlol::tlol::tlol:

Straight up Halo Farm juice.

[Technogeek29]

Yeah, hi, sorry, I was at work.



GIMMICK INFRINGEMENT motherf***er! I call Gimmick Infringement. That is a "Drop-You-On-Your-Head"-worthy offense in MY sport, hepcat. You owe CyberCubed an apology like, yesterday, or I'm comin' to your house. No foolin'.



:tlol: Cut to a shot of Donnie opening the mini-fridge in his lab, and it's full of Grape Drink. :tlol: Not even Grape Soda... Grape Drink, son! :tlol::tlol::tlol:

Swear to God, my best friend loves that sh*t. I always give him dirty looks but he loves it. :lol:

On the other hand... I'm pretty sure Donatello can swim. :tgrin: :tcouch:

*Random note* in the GBA Battle Nexus game Donnie was portrayed as the only Turtle who couldn't swim, often using overly aggressive strokes to reach the same results as the other 3. whether above or under water he looked like he was struggling, while Leo graceful, Raph basic and Mike would show off doing the back stoke with his hands behind his head.

[Metalwolf]

I'm curious though, if the Turtles were done as females, who would the love interests be? (If they have them.) Would they be a gender-flipped Karai (Karo?) Renet (Renot) and whatever else, or would they have to be new characters entirely?

And does this gender-flipping extend to other characters like April, Casey, Shredder himself (herself) and Shredder's henchmen (hench-women?):P

[Candy Kappa]

Shredder would be the most natural to gender flip in a girl tmnt version, since Saki already is a girl's name :P

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Shredder would be the most natural to gender flip in a girl tmnt version, since Saki already is a girl's name :P

Teenage Mutant Ninja Girl Turtles... and their archenemy, Tender Blossom of Hope! Also known as the Shredder. :tlol:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I'm curious though, if the Turtles were done as females, who would the love interests be? (If they have them.) Would they be a gender-flipped Karai (Karo?) Renet (Renot) and whatever else, or would they have to be new characters entirely?

And does this gender-flipping extend to other characters like April, Casey, Shredder himself (herself) and Shredder's henchmen (hench-women?):P

And Kala would be Carl?

[Metalwolf]

And Kala would be Carl?Yup :P

Casey would be Cassandra Jones

Hamato Yoshi would still be the same, 'Yoshi' is unisex

Oroku Saki would be the same, Saki is a girl's name

Raphael would be Raphaela

Donatello would be Donatella

Michelangelo would be Michelle

Leonardo would be Leona

Nick Bebop (Anton Zeck) would be Antoinette Zeck

Nick Rocksteady (Ivan Steranko) would be Ivana Steranko

Baxter Stockman would be the same, as Baxter sometimes is used as a girl's name

Chris Bradford would be Christina Bradford

Xever Montes would be Xaviera Montes

The female versions pretty much write themselves :D

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I think I'll stick with what we have right now, thanks. But this thread is definitely gold. Keep it coming.

[shredder orokusaki]

The answer is no. A action show with females can never be as popular. How many action shows with females we have nowdays anyway?! The only one i can think right now is Totaly Spies. And even that is not near as popular as othes similar shows that have males. It begun in 2001 and so far it had only 6 seasons.

[ticktack]

The Tmnt has had future selves (1987, 2003), human selves(IDW), MLP had an AU with good characters being evil and vice versa. How about someone officially creates females selves AU, maybe IDW will have that, without the concept being badly screwed up, I don't think they'll fail like that. :roll: Do you like or agree with the idea or not? 8)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The answer is no. A action show with females can never be as popular. How many action shows with females we have nowdays anyway?! The only one i can think right now is Totaly Spies. And even that is not near as popular as othes similar shows that have males. It begun in 2001 and so far it had only 6 seasons.

TMNT is originally comic books, not a cartoon, and should be compared with other comic books with female main characters.

[Leo656]

TMNT is originally comic books, not a cartoon, and should be compared with other comic books with female main characters.

I get what you're saying, but I think it's a "cartoon property" in the mind of the general public. Most people who consider themselves "TMNT fans" have never and will never read a comic book, and beyond that, the future of the franchise is definitely in cartoon shows, not comic books, because the industry is dying out. The current series is being published more out of a sense of tradition than anything else. I wouldn't doubt that when the IDW run ends, that may be the last TMNT comic.

I do get what you mean, though, but I honestly think it's more accurate, at THIS point, to call TMNT a cartoon property. It's true contemporaries aren't other comic book characters, it's other cartoon shows. That's what TMNT and its "legacy" are always compared to or held up against, so anyone who thinks of TMNT as mainly a cartoon is in no way wrong.

[plastroncafe]

The answer is no. A action show with females can never be as popular. How many action shows with females we have nowdays anyway?! The only one i can think right now is Totaly Spies. And even that is not near as popular as othes similar shows that have males. It begun in 2001 and so far it had only 6 seasons.

Alias
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Person of Interest
Leverage
Orphan Black
Karen Sisco
Sarah Connor Chronicles

Just to help.
Also...back away from the use of absolutist terms. That's Cyber's territory you're honing in on.

[CyberCubed]

^ I think he was referring to cartoons, not shows aimed at adults. He's right that there aren't a lot of action/adventure cartoon shows with female leads. Korra is the only recent one that came to mind.

[IndigoErth]

I don't buy that a lack of popularly would be due to characters being female, and entirely on the concept and writing and the ability or inability of the creators and writers of it to break the mold or not. There's little reason for female Turtles to be too much different than their existing counterparts unless creatively limited individuals resort to the same old thing and can't develop a concept that even the boys would like.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

See also: MLP. Apparently, female characters CAN appeal to boys.

[Shark_Blade]

Nah, not action ninja. Even Totally Spies was dull. MLP has no action. I don't even like Charlie's Angels.

It won't work just by switching the gender of the turtles, they need to bring something new to the table. The thought of 4 Venuses is enough to give me a migraine.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

What, you never heard of Kim Possible? Not a ninja, but she was definitely an action character! And there was Buffy, Willow, Cordy, Tara, and the rest of the "Scooby Gang". It CAN work, it just needs a good concept and good writing.

[Leo656]

There was a whole Season Finale of MLP where they did some epic LotR type sh*t. There's lots of action on that show. I doubt you've even watched the show, or you'd know how great it is. Or you're just allergic to whimsy. One or the other.

EDIT: High-5 to Tinker for posting the same thing at the same time. :lol:

[PangolinFeets]

Sorry...just lolling over someone saying Totally Spies was the only one that came to mind....

http://i.imgur.com/Tnpjolv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/QrmFMJ0.gif

http://i.imgur.com/uatT63F.gif

http://i.imgur.com/dqA38Sw.gif

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Korra! Absoluely! That's how a femme TMNT show SHOULD be done.

[Leo656]

I don't watch that show, but I find her hot. :lol:

...is my only contribution to any Korra conversation.

[CyberCubed]

I don't watch that show, but I find her hot. :lol:

...is my only contribution to any Korra conversation.

She becomes a lesbian at the end of the series. Seriously, you know you're gonna watch it. But make sure you watch Avatar first as its the first series.

[PangolinFeets]

Korra! Absoluely! That's how a femme TMNT show SHOULD be done.
I mean, the show wasn't as consistently well-written as Avatar (Not really their fault), but Korra herself was ****ing awesome. Plus, the animation is stellar.
http://i.imgur.com/PpmEgjA.jpg



I don't watch that show, but I find her hot. :lol:

...is my only contribution to any Korra conversation.

Well, she does bend fire.

http://i.imgur.com/j89zNET.gif

[Leo656]

She becomes a lesbian at the end of the series. Seriously, you know you're gonna watch it. But make sure you watch Avatar first as its the first series.

I already knew that because you never shut up about it. :lol: Also, I'm your biggest fan, I never miss a Cubed post. You're gonna have a wing in a museum named after you one day.

And my wife isn't interested so I probably won't be seeing it anytime soon. She holds the remote.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Among other things, or so I've heard, LOL! Nah, if she's into TMNT, she'd probably like Korra, too. I gave it a shot, and LOVED it!

[Leo656]

Ironically, aside from MLP, she hates shows with female protagonists. Go figure. :lol:

Leave it to me to find the One Girl who's a huge misogynist. :lol: Some of my favorite quotes of hers are "Women shouldn't be allowed to f***ing drive," "You can't have a woman be President, they're all c***s," and probably the best of all time, "Why'd they have to start getting jobs and screwing sh*t up for the rest of us? Everything was fine when we were just supposed to vacuum and watch TV all day, then those stupid hippies had to go and ruin it."

No, I'm not sh*tting you. :lol:

[Jester]

Ironically, aside from MLP, she hates shows with female protagonists. Go figure. :lol:

Leave it to me to find the One Girl who's a huge misogynist. :lol: Some of my favorite quotes of hers are "Women shouldn't be allowed to f***ing drive," "You can't have a woman be President, they're all c***s," and probably the best of all time, "Why'd they have to start getting jobs and screwing sh*t up for the rest of us? Everything was fine when we were just supposed to vacuum and watch TV all day, then those stupid hippies had to go and ruin it."

No, I'm not sh*tting you. :lol:
I thought she liked Xena....

[Leo656]

That's like the only one! :lol: Maybe that's it, maybe she's just super-attached to that one thing at the expense of all others. :lol:

[PangolinFeets]

Ironically, aside from MLP, she hates shows with female protagonists. Go figure. :lol:

Leave it to me to find the One Girl who's a huge misogynist. :lol: Some of my favorite quotes of hers are "Women shouldn't be allowed to f***ing drive," "You can't have a woman be President, they're all c***s," and probably the best of all time, "Why'd they have to start getting jobs and screwing sh*t up for the rest of us? Everything was fine when we were just supposed to vacuum and watch TV all day, then those stupid hippies had to go and ruin it."

No, I'm not sh*tting you. :lol:

Lol, she sounds like me when I was in high school.

[plastroncafe]

She becomes a lesbian at the end of the series. Seriously, you know you're gonna watch it.

No she doesn't.
She's bi, and without any other evidence to the contrary, it's very easy to assume she always WAS bi.

Ironically, aside from MLP, she hates shows with female protagonists. Go figure. :lol:

Leave it to me to find the One Girl who's a huge misogynist. :lol: Some of my favorite quotes of hers are "Women shouldn't be allowed to f***ing drive," "You can't have a woman be President, they're all c***s," and probably the best of all time, "Why'd they have to start getting jobs and screwing sh*t up for the rest of us? Everything was fine when we were just supposed to vacuum and watch TV all day, then those stupid hippies had to go and ruin it."

No, I'm not sh*tting you. :lol:

This sounds a whole lot like me, until I got to college and every guy I met started treating me the same way I used to treat other women.

[TigerClaw]

If the turtles were females, they would probably be something like this.

http://img06.deviantart.net/3398/i/2013/214/8/c/tmnt_genderbend_by_sugarysymbiote-d6gbxpf.png

[neatoman]

If the turtles were females, they would probably be something like this.

http://img06.deviantart.net/3398/i/2013/214/8/c/tmnt_genderbend_by_sugarysymbiote-d6gbxpf.png

Or like this:
http://pre11.deviantart.net/4440/th/pre/f/2013/199/9/3/tmnt_rule_63_parade_mike_by_chochi-d6e43hi.jpg
http://orig15.deviantart.net/1a2b/f/2013/199/3/a/tmnt_rule_63_parade_donna_by_chochi-d6e42w7.jpg
http://orig11.deviantart.net/003f/f/2013/199/e/2/tmnt_rule_63_parade_rafa_by_chochi-d6e42it.jpg
http://orig12.deviantart.net/a8f4/f/2013/199/a/4/tmnt_rule_63_parade_leona_by_chochi-d6e41z0.jpg

[plastroncafe]

I prefer Sophie Campbell's rendering of a female turtle:
http://orig06.deviantart.net/8093/f/2014/057/5/b/hurry_by_mooncalfe-d785f5h.jpg

http://orig02.deviantart.net/0037/f/2014/211/1/6/secrets_of_the_ooze__artemisia_by_mooncalfe-d7sshnj.jpg

[TigerClaw]

Or like this:
http://pre11.deviantart.net/4440/th/pre/f/2013/199/9/3/tmnt_rule_63_parade_mike_by_chochi-d6e43hi.jpg
http://orig15.deviantart.net/1a2b/f/2013/199/3/a/tmnt_rule_63_parade_donna_by_chochi-d6e42w7.jpg
http://orig11.deviantart.net/003f/f/2013/199/e/2/tmnt_rule_63_parade_rafa_by_chochi-d6e42it.jpg
http://orig12.deviantart.net/a8f4/f/2013/199/a/4/tmnt_rule_63_parade_leona_by_chochi-d6e41z0.jpg
Or maybe like this.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VJZqyMejkrA/maxresdefault.jpg

[PangolinFeets]

I prefer Sophie Campbell's rendering of a female turtle:
http://orig06.deviantart.net/8093/f/2014/057/5/b/hurry_by_mooncalfe-d785f5h.jpg

http://orig02.deviantart.net/0037/f/2014/211/1/6/secrets_of_the_ooze__artemisia_by_mooncalfe-d7sshnj.jpg

No, this will do. I absolutely adore Arti's design & character.

[Klunk1234]

If Laird and Eastman would have decided to made them like that since the beginning, why not?.

[pennydreadful]

... and probably the best of all time, "Why'd they have to start getting jobs and screwing sh*t up for the rest of us? Everything was fine when we were just supposed to vacuum and watch TV all day, then those stupid hippies had to go and ruin it."

No, I'm not sh*tting you. :lol:

Hang on, I thought you do most of the housework and cooking though? She ain't livin' up to her part of the deal, mang. Tell that skirt you expect her to bring your pipe and slippers when you get home! :P

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/01/article-2617868-1D7E50F300000578-690_306x459.jpg

... either that, or you're clearly not picking up on her hints for what she really wants for Xmas and birthday gifts. ;)

http://www.campaignbrief.com/madisonavenue_01.jpg

[Powder]

Or maybe like this.


You mean literally the exact same designs? Good going, champ.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

The facial designs are okay, but I could really do without the huge shell-boobs and enormous hips on those gals.

[Leo656]

Hang on, I thought you do most of the housework and cooking though? She ain't livin' up to her part of the deal, mang. Tell that skirt you expect her to bring your pipe and slippers when you get home! :P

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/01/article-2617868-1D7E50F300000578-690_306x459.jpg

... either that, or you're clearly not picking up on her hints for what she really wants for Xmas and birthday gifts. ;)

http://www.campaignbrief.com/madisonavenue_01.jpg

Much as I bitch about it I'd probably end up doing all the cooking ANY way since I'm better at it. :lol: She's gotten pretty good though. She definitely holds up the TV watching part though. :trazz:

We'll just say there's other things she's good at that make up for any shortfalls elsewhere.

[PangolinFeets]

The facial designs are okay, but I could really do without the huge shell-boobs and enormous hips on those gals.

Yeeeaaa.... I've always been a fan of showing femininity without necessarily having to tack boobs, bows, and eyelashes on every design and smothering it with pink. It's lazy. =/

[IndigoErth]

So much of all of that. Name, voice, and personal pronouns are enough to get it across unless someone is really that dense.

Edit: oh yeah, those second designs may fit well in the 2014 movie though. Just popped into my head because of the scene where the bullets bounced off Raph. Plus, y'know, it's made by Michael Bay.:P Okay, I'm shutting up now.
Since lady turtles are supposedly bigger than the boys, I still have this vision of a big Bay Venus, had she happened, looking down at one of the guys saying, "Hey there, little man, aren't you cute." :lol: And he's just looking up at her going *gulp*. :tlol:

I'm sure Bay Venus would be quite the horror though. Of course, than again, being Hollywood and Bay films, they'd probably try hard to make her attractive and objectify the heck out of her. (Then perhaps for once male fans can be likewise chastised for those uncomfortable passing thoughts... :tlol::trazz:)

[ProactiveMan]

I prefer Sophie Campbell's rendering of a female turtle:
http://orig06.deviantart.net/8093/f/2014/057/5/b/hurry_by_mooncalfe-d785f5h.jpg

http://orig02.deviantart.net/0037/f/2014/211/1/6/secrets_of_the_ooze__artemisia_by_mooncalfe-d7sshnj.jpg

That's neat. Is that a real bee or a toy?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Looks like a stuffed toy from the first pic. She's kind of cool.

[Leofan26]

I'd say it'd still be popular, just as long as it didn't start off this way he first series, reboots always do awful. Fandom will rant and rave about it all, take the all female ghost busters crew, not getting a lot of positive feedback :lol:

[BubblyShell22]

Not big on the shell boobs or even the bows, but that would be the only way to let you know they're females unless you hear the voices.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Gah. Those genderbent TMNT are frightening.

So far, the only designs not vomit-inducing are Sophie's.

[ticktack]

Gah. Those genderbent TMNT are frightening.

So far, the only designs not vomit-inducing are Sophie's.
Agreed.

And the one notable artist who properly did (and wasn't in non-like/want position) a female turtle and I think Sophie's is in LGB+ one. Disagreeing with the movment or not, hearing out some issues (the issues are given for hearing, if you want to [there are also feminism, POC issues if you want to hear as well]) and giving a fair solution really moves the society forward. >:P Yea, you can read it again: having a fair solution to a problem moves us to a brighter, lighter life/future. !!! ^_^ !!!!!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Agreed.

And the one notable artist who properly did (and wasn't in non-like/want position) a female turtle and I think Sophie's is in LGB+ one. Disagreeing with the movment or not, hearing out some issues (the issues are given for hearing, if you want to [there are also feminism, POC issues if you want to hear as well]) and giving a fair solution really moves the society forward. >:P Yea, you can read it again: having a fair solution to a problem moves us to a brighter, lighter life/future. !!! ^_^ !!!!!

... If you're gonna be so pointless as to bring in Sophie's sexual orientation in a topic about genderbent TMNT, you might as well tell us what you had for breakfast yesterday, too.

Also, grammar and punctuation. SENTENCE STRUCTURE.

[ticktack]

... If you're gonna be so pointless as to bring in Sophie's sexual orientation in a topic about genderbent TMNT, you might as well tell us what you had for breakfast yesterday, too.

Also, grammar and punctuation. SENTENCE STRUCTURE.

I was eating back then... sorry I am lazy for that to remember maybe? :P
Ok I understand, really, sorry for making you angry.

As for the last 2 sentences you've written, you could be right. English isn't my first language anyway. :) :P

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was eating back then... sorry I am lazy for that to remember maybe? :P
Ok I understand, really, sorry for making you angry.

As for the last 2 sentences you've written, you could be right. English isn't my first language anyway. :) :P

Wasn't angry, just trying to close a can of worms before it got opened. And I willingly retract my criticisms of your writing.

But please, bringing in the artist's sexual orientation is just going to derail this into a huge fight between people arguing morality, legality, etc, when sexual orientation has nothing to do with the current topic.

And now, back to the freakishly buxom genderbent TMNT... or, actually, maybe we SHOULD argue politics now. :tlol:

[IndigoErth]

And now, back to the freakishly buxom genderbent TMNT... or, actually, maybe we SHOULD argue politics now. :tlol:
At the very least, I suppose to some degree I appreciate they they didn't make them all the same and the Leo and Donnie girls are more reasonable if you're gonna give reptiles breasts. The Mikey and Raph girls.... goodness.

Wonder how much harder getting a mammogram will be for them.


Really though, as much as the plastron tends to be used to give the impression of pectoral muscles on the guys... maybe just give the girls lightly noticeable rounder lines/contours in that department without actually adding breasts. Obviously though that's only going to work if they exist alongside the guys for comparison if the guys have slightly more angular lines.

[Bombshell]

At the very least, I suppose to some degree I appreciate they they didn't make them all the same and the Leo and Donnie girls are more reasonable if you're gonna give reptiles breasts. The Mikey and Raph girls.... goodness.

Wonder how much harder getting a mammogram will be for them.


Really though, as much as the plastron tends to be used to give the impression of pectoral muscles on the guys... maybe just give the girls lightly noticeable rounder lines/contours in that department without actually adding breasts. Obviously though that's only going to work if they exist alongside the guys for comparison if the guys have slightly more angular lines.

I like this idea

[Powder]

Y'all inspired me to do a female design of Leonardo:

http://i59.tinypic.com/w339k.png

[DarkLightDragon]

Great job, Powder!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Y'all inspired me to do a female design of Leonardo:

http://i59.tinypic.com/w339k.png

SECOND good TMNT genderbent design I've seen on this thread.

No Plastron Double Z's, thank God.

[IndigoErth]

Y'all inspired me to do a female design of Leonardo:

http://i59.tinypic.com/w339k.png
:D Hah, very cute, thumbs up! :tthumbsu::tthumbsu:

Just proved it's entirely possible to give a sense that it's a girl while being subtle about it.

[Bombshell]

Really though, as much as the plastron tends to be used to give the impression of pectoral muscles on the guys... maybe just give the girls lightly noticeable rounder lines/contours in that department without actually adding breasts. Obviously though that's only going to work if they exist alongside the guys for comparison if the guys have slightly more angular lines.

I took the idea and ran with it. Unfortunately I'm out of sketch paper and don't have a lot of time to draw these days so its all very crude :roll: Spoiler for size

http://orig02.deviantart.net/4e1b/f/2015/212/3/6/girl_turtle__by_bomb_shell-d93lkba.jpg

Colors are based off of what colored pencil my daughter wasn't using at the time and I threw on a RES spot just for kicks.

[jenna]

Y'all inspired me to do a female design of Leonardo:

http://i59.tinypic.com/w339k.png

Woah. Not keen on the idea of female turtles, but that is good artwork, Powder.

[PangolinFeets]

Love it, Powder.
Stuff like this makes me really want to see IDW tackle a character like Venus and give her a complete rehaul. Like, make her huuuge, give her a white bandanna and make her a rival of the turtles or something. There are so many ways it can be done other than ****ing shellboobs.

[BubblyShell22]

Love your designs, Powder and Bombshell. Those are awesome and a good way to draw them.

[Rooish]

I didn't read this whole thread but the answer to the initial question is no.

[ticktack]

I can also put, what I'm going to write, under the spoiler so... if you're interested, I'm going to write my thoughts about female characters, that's what it is about. :P Enjoy. :)

Discussing about females beginning with something (as the thread title) is a one of the starts. I think I can talk about females which are more likely to be in the show (in general not only tmnt) or are already there.
Main female character, protagonist, for this cartoon - April.
So what are they usually: sexy, pleasant looking or, at worst, just too much, poundering-wise(?). Being, as it called, sexy I find to be a variety (1 out of 6 or as you might know/think) and not exclusive for women, and being cute or sexy comes out of a free wish or will of a woman or an individual in general.
I guess in a male heavy show where there is at least not as much females as males, maybe you should tone down on the sexy part for a female character, which are few out there, because making sexy could be a pink-bow situation or type of a stereotype (? maybe), because that has been done many times within media with few females or women around there, you know right? :) :)

Going back to the topic, I may suggest a headcanon:
If canon April is white (exept the Mirage one, it's a little doubtful) you can make sunburnt male April AU, because of variety of stories, a little twists, etc or... for a little reference ;) :) :P.

[Candy Kappa]

I did a quick drawing my own rendition off a girl ninja turtle.

http://img15.deviantart.net/981b/i/2015/214/a/a/r63_leonardo_by_candykappa-d93wgm5.jpg

[Bombshell]

I love it, Candy! Great job!! :o

[pennydreadful]

Big thumbs up to the members who posted their own art of female Turtles. :tthumbsu::tthumbsu::tthumbsu: I got a real kick out of seeing your interpretations, and thank you for the lack of pink, lipstick and OTT boobage!

[ProactiveMan]

Yeah, you's are cool. Makes me want to draw some now.

[IndigoErth]

Great job, guys. :D Make me wish I was talented enough in that department to jump in, but love seeing your work. :tgrin:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ditto what Indigo said. but since I'm a writer and not an artist.....

[THGhost]

Sure, why not? I'd watch that show.

[BubblyShell22]

Awesome drawing, Candy. So cool.

[ProactiveMan]

This is pretty scrappy, but it's not too bad(ish). Don't think too hard about the leg warmers, I just think leg warmers are cool.

http://i.imgur.com/MPm3lOh.jpg

[aliena]

Or like this:
http://pre11.deviantart.net/4440/th/pre/f/2013/199/9/3/tmnt_rule_63_parade_mike_by_chochi-d6e43hi.jpg
http://orig15.deviantart.net/1a2b/f/2013/199/3/a/tmnt_rule_63_parade_donna_by_chochi-d6e42w7.jpg
http://orig11.deviantart.net/003f/f/2013/199/e/2/tmnt_rule_63_parade_rafa_by_chochi-d6e42it.jpg
http://orig12.deviantart.net/a8f4/f/2013/199/a/4/tmnt_rule_63_parade_leona_by_chochi-d6e41z0.jpg

When you put it like this, I love the idea! Female Raph rocks! I do not know what happened to this thread. I go back to work and I come back and find it going cray cray in here. :)

[aliena]

I did a quick drawing my own rendition off a girl ninja turtle.

http://img15.deviantart.net/981b/i/2015/214/a/a/r63_leonardo_by_candykappa-d93wgm5.jpg

Excellent job Candy! Everyone has great artwork. So much talent here.