Shredder not being voiced by a Japanese actor in all 3 cartoons, thoughts?

[CyberCubed]

Does anyone think its rather odd that despite Oroku Saki being a Japanese man that he's NEVER spoken with a Japanese accent, nor had a Japanese voice actor in any of the 3 cartoons?

Fred Wolf and Nick Shredder were voiced by black actors, and 4kids Shredder was voiced by Scottie Ray. Even ignoring that Shredder was Ch'rell he still should have spoke with a Japanese accent since that's where he landed on Earth. They all never spoke with Japanese accents or mannerisms.

Do you think this is kinda odd? Shredder SHOULD sound Japanese, and I have no clue why none of the cartoons did this.

[Leo656]

Can you f***in' imagine what "Japanese" Shredder would have sounded like in a 1980s cartoon? Come ON, guy!. :lol:

"Aaahhhhhh, soooo... Missa Klang, dishonorable Tuh-tuls have spoired our prans again! We have vewy wittul powuh reft fo ta Technodlome! HAI!" :lol:

Yeah, f*ck that no thanks. I mean I'D love it but like not one person shares my sense of humor.

[Bry]

How often has he been played by actor of Japanese descent at all? There was James Saito in the 1990 movie, though the voice was dubbed over by David McCharen, who... I'm guessing isn't of Japanese heritage. :lol:

I'll give BayTurtles this... even though that movie was hot garbage and its version of the Shredder was maybe the thinnest, lamest version yet, Tohoru Masamune and Brian Tee are both Japanese-American. (Though they originally had the Shredder being the white American Eric Sacks, so I'm not gonna give them too many points here.)

As for the cartoons, I feel like James Avery, Skottie Ray, and Kevin Michael Richardson were/are all pretty great in their roles. And thankfully avoided the kind of offensive stereotype Leo... vividly described. :trazz:

[oldmanwinters]

Honestly, the Japan angle of the TMNT story has been so stereotypically superfluous from the start, I have no idea why people push so hard to have a man of Japanese ancestry play him in movies or whatever. The TMNT are named after Italian Renaissance artists by a mutant rat who learned and taught martial arts because it was the coolest thing of the early 1980s. And they are pastiches of whatever most adults think American teenagers of the day are into.

Who cares about the Shredder actor's ethnicity just so long as they put in a good performance. James Avery, Jim Cummings, and Kevin Michael Richardson have always put in solid work with very little attempt to fake a Japanese accent. Scottie Ray also did a fine job in the 4Kids show, though he made more of an effort to play up the accent amid all the hoarse maniacal growling.

[Leo656]

And thankfully avoided the kind of offensive stereotype Leo... vividly described. :trazz:

Be real, if they DID do that, the show only would'a been twice as popular. :lol: Every kid would'a been imitating Shredder on the playground because we were all little assholes who did that anyway. :lol: Just like we'd make every Indian person talk like Apu. Same thing. Nowadays it's awful, back then, it was just the way it was done.

I'm so solly we live in a more "enlightened" age because that sh*t would be bananas. :lol:

[ssjup81]

Can you f***in' imagine what "Japanese" Shredder would have sounded like in a 1980s cartoon? Come ON, guy!. :lol:

"Aaahhhhhh, soooo... Missa Klang, dishonorable Tuh-tuls have spoired our prans again! We have vewy wittul powuh reft fo ta Technodlome! HAI!" :lol:

Yeah, f*ck that no thanks. I mean I'D love it but like not one person shares my sense of humor.What about OT Splinter? He spoke ok and his character was Japanese, so yeah. I don't think the OT would've been offensive like that. I know he didn't have a Japanese voice actor, but I doubt they would've had those kind of lines.

[Leo656]

Shredder was the bad guy, so yeah, he would'a been. Bad Guys in cartoons are Always racial stereotypes. Least that used to be the rule. Good guys get treated with dignity regardless of race or ethnicity. Bad guys get treated totally different. It's one of the more common double-standards in TV and movies, especially children's entertainment.

[evan2000]

Shredder was the bad guy, so yeah, he would'a been. Bad Guys in cartoons are Always racial stereotypes. Least that used to be the rule. Good guys get treated with dignity regardless of race or ethnicity. Bad guys get treated totally different. It's one of the more common double-standards in TV and movies, especially children's entertainment.

Mr. Murakami (Nick series) is a good guy, and yet he's voiced by Sab Shimono who speaks in stereotypical Japanese accent :trazz:

[ssjup81]

Mr. Murakami (Nick series) is a good guy, and yet he's voiced by Sab Shimono who speaks in stereotypical Japanese accent :trazz:Sounds like stereotypical "Asian" to me. :-P. He does sound like someone who didn't always live in the US, though...unlike Karai. lol She sounds like she grew up in the US, her character.

[Leo656]

Well f*** me then, I'unno. :lol: Either way, "Hooray for casual racism in cartoons, a hilarious and victimless crime", right? I know I always dig it. :trazz:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, but we all know you're also an a$$hole, Leo, LOL!! But NOT 100% a d*ck. JK. But I doubt it would fly.

[Prowler]

I could not care less. All of Shredder VA's did a good job, imo. And James Avery in particular was a great Shredder and fit the tone of the series perfectly. Remember that Splinter was a more serious and grounded character, while Shredder was a comedic villain. I mean come one now, who better than Uncle Phil to boss around Bebop and Rocksteady? :lol:

Also, despite Splinter's Japanese accent, afaik, his VA was not anywhere near being Asian. I mean, the name Peter Renaday sure doesn't sound Japanese.

Can you f***in' imagine what "Japanese" Shredder would have sounded like in a 1980s cartoon? Come ON, guy!. :lol:

"Aaahhhhhh, soooo... Missa Klang, dishonorable Tuh-tuls have spoired our prans again! We have vewy wittul powuh reft fo ta Technodlome! HAI!" :lol:

Yeah, f*ck that no thanks. I mean I'D love it but like not one person shares my sense of humor.
Even though that sounds funny, Shredder just would not be the same.

And no need to be a villain for that. Remember the flower selling lady in the 2nd Lotus episode?

Honestly, the Japan angle of the TMNT story has been so stereotypically superfluous from the start, I have no idea why people push so hard to have a man of Japanese ancestry play him in movies or whatever. The TMNT are named after Italian Renaissance artists by a mutant rat who learned and taught martial arts because it was the coolest thing of the early 1980s. And they are pastiches of whatever most adults think American teenagers of the day are into.

Who cares about the Shredder actor's ethnicity just so long as they put in a good performance. James Avery, Jim Cummings, and Kevin Michael Richardson have always put in solid work with very little attempt to fake a Japanese accent. Scottie Ray also did a fine job in the 4Kids show, though he made more of an effort to play up the accent amid all the hoarse maniacal growling.
You make very good points. Indeed the whole premise of the TMNT does sound silly. I mean the whole renaissance painters thing seemed completely random. I wonder how Peter and Kevin came up with that. But I cannot deny they sound pretty cool. I mean, would the TMNT still be as well remembered if their names were, let's say: Akira, Satoshi, Takeshi and Sasuke? And I guess if they had been name English names such as Kevin, Brian, Jack and Peter; they wouldn't have been as memorable either.

As for Shredder in live action TV, considering he has always been Japanese in the comics and the cartoons, it makes no sense to make him something else in the movies. I mean obviously anyone can learn Japanese martial arts if they're dedicated to it, but that would require more storytelling, and at the end of the day, it makes a lot more sense for Shredder to be named Oroku Saki than Eric Sachs. Just like Hamato Yoshi being named that and not being named, per example, John Smith. If there's Japanese mythology in it, it only makes sense for there to be Japanese people in the franchise.

[Splinter the boss]

Nick Shredder speaks japanese.

[MC]

I used to wonder about this when I was a kid, regarding the 1987 cartoon. It seemed really odd that Saki sounded so American. James Avery did give him a slight Asian edge in the first five episodes, but it completely fades eventually. When William Martin took over as Shredder for the Red Sky seasons, he sounded more British than Asian!

[Commenter 42]

The only redeeming quality of Bayturtles, was Shredders Voice.

Each voice seems to fit the incarnation, and yes, the accent would totally have been butchered on the OT.

If there was ever a more adult animated show, then cubed woul have a point.
Hell, would be nice to hear a little Japanese in the turtles voices as well.

[MC]

The turtles aren't Japanese though, so there'd be no reason for them to have accents (unless they picked it up from Splinter). Speaking of which, the 2014 film is the only one where Splinter isn't Japanese, so doesn't have an accent.

[Commenter 42]

The turtles aren't Japanese though, so there'd be no reason for them to have accents (unless they picked it up from Splinter). Speaking of which, the 2014 film is the only one where Splinter isn't Japanese, so doesn't have an accent.
Hunh?

Shredders voice was the only thing that I would take from Bayturtles.
Yes, I was Suggesting that the turtles could have picked up a bit of a Japanese accent from Splinter, possibly even Japanese as a first language. No, I wasn't talking about the abomination that was 2014 Splinter.

[cloud]

Does anyone think its rather odd that despite Oroku Saki being a Japanese man that he's NEVER spoken with a Japanese accent, nor had a Japanese voice actor in any of the 3 cartoons?

Fred Wolf and Nick Shredder were voiced by black actors, and 4kids Shredder was voiced by Scottie Ray. Even ignoring that Shredder was Ch'rell he still should have spoke with a Japanese accent since that's where he landed on Earth. They all never spoke with Japanese accents or mannerisms.

Do you think this is kinda odd? Shredder SHOULD sound Japanese, and I have no clue why none of the cartoons did this.

Same thing with Master Splinter.

Then again. American cartoon have always had problems with casting Asian characters properly. Same goes for live action movies,.

[ProactiveMan]

I've never understood the logic: It's a problem if you cast a non-Asian actor to voice an Asian cartoon character, but it's OK to hire an Asian-American and make them put on a hammy accent.

As for dubbing Movie Shredder - you guys dubbed Mad Max, and while we're on that subject, I'm not offended that Mel Gibson played an Australian.

[ToTheNines]

I kinda thought Scottie Ray used a vaguely foreign accent. Not necessarily Japanese, but still.

Although, Ch'rell wasn't even Japanese so there's that.

And I just reminded myself how stupid it was that the Demon Shredder had the same VA as Ch'rell. :/

[DarkLightDragon]

I kinda thought Scottie Ray used a vaguely foreign accent. Not necessarily Japanese, but still.

Although, Ch'rell wasn't even Japanese so there's that.

And I just reminded myself how stupid it was that the Demon Shredder had the same VA as Ch'rell. :/

My guess for that would've been probably for the sake of consistency, but yeah, even if they're both technically "Shredder" they're still two different people and giving Demon Shredder a different voice would've been the most subtle approach to that. With Cyber Shredder, it makes sense he'd sound like Ch'rell, but for the original Shredder? Nah, man, you don't need to have Scottie Ray play him to let the audience know he's a new Shredder the Turtles have to face, as good as he was in the role prior.

[Prowler]

I kinda thought Scottie Ray used a vaguely foreign accent. Not necessarily Japanese, but still.

Although, Ch'rell wasn't even Japanese so there's that.

And I just reminded myself how stupid it was that the Demon Shredder had the same VA as Ch'rell. :/
Ye, it might have been subtle but I noticed some Asian accent in 4Kids Shredder.

Indeed Ch'rell was not Japanese, or human for that matter, but he still posed as a Japanese man when he pretended to be human. In fact, he possessed a Japanese man since the Utrom's ship landed in Japan.

[Yabuturtle]

I'm surprised people haven't thought it was racist for non Asian actors to play an Asian character, like some would complain of whites playing Asians in live action movies. Some will think it's racist for Asians to have an accent. Which doesn't even begin to make sense. They will usually say it's stereotypical which sometimes it can but even when they have an accent they'll still think it's racist.

Of course not all Japanese people will have Japanese accents. If you have an Asian character who speaks Japanese, ect. as their first language and English is their second language, of course they are going to have a Japanese accent. That's not being racist, that's being accurate. People are so quick to say something's racist and half of them don't even know what it means.

Granted I don't mind if he isn't played by an Asian character. Acting is about, well, acting. Pretending.

[CyberCubed]

Ch'rell was still in Japan and exposed to Japanese culture, the language, mannerisms and social norms. It was his first exposure to the human race, so naturally Ch'rell adopted Japanese customs because that's where he was.

[jenna]

I see your point, but it's never bothered me.

Of bigger concern to me is how characters from other dimensions / universes / planets all speak flawless English.

[Prowler]

I see your point, but it's never bothered me.

Of bigger concern to me is how characters from other dimensions / universes / planets all speak flawless English.
That's one of those things you're nto meant to take seriously. The most common excuse that tv pulls in those situations is the said aliens having a device that translates what they say to earthlings in English and what Earthlings say to them in whatever alien language they're native speakers of.

[jenna]

That's one of those things you're nto meant to take seriously. The most common excuse that tv pulls in those situations is the said aliens having a device that translates what they say to earthlings in English and what Earthlings say to them in whatever alien language they're native speakers of.

There's a difference between taking things too seriously and being treated like an idiot. I mean, come on, it's mutant turtles doing martial arts - it can't be taken too seriously, but some incarnations do a good job of making the concept feel credible.

It's like the subject of this thread. None of the cartoon Sakis had authentic Japanese accents, despite the character explicitly being Japanese, but the voice talents have all done a great job of making the character feel credible - Japanese accent or no.

But a device that translates alien language into English...? How very convenient. Especially when the Earthlings are visiting other dimensions / planets / whatevers - the entire place uses a device to change their language so as to accommodate their unusual visitors???? Zero credibility there, just a whole lot of arrogance on the part of the English-speaking inhabitants of Earth.

It's fine if the particular incarnation is already zany and claims to not take itself too seriously like the OT, but 2k3 took itself too seriously to pull it off IMO. Nick so far has balanced the idea ok, what with the Kraang having had the opportunity to learn English and Newtraliser having such a device as suggested above.

If a show takes itself seriously, then the audience should be able to take it seriously too.

[BubblyShell22]

Can you f***in' imagine what "Japanese" Shredder would have sounded like in a 1980s cartoon? Come ON, guy!. :lol:

"Aaahhhhhh, soooo... Missa Klang, dishonorable Tuh-tuls have spoired our prans again! We have vewy wittul powuh reft fo ta Technodlome! HAI!" :lol:

Yeah, f*ck that no thanks. I mean I'D love it but like not one person shares my sense of humor.

Leo, you totally win this one again! I agree that if they were to do this whole Japanese thing, they would totally have made him sound like that. And I would have thought it was hilarious just like you, Leo. But for what it's worth, James Avery did a fine job as have all of the others who have voiced Shredder in the cartoons.

[Xav]

My guess for that would've been probably for the sake of consistency, but yeah, even if they're both technically "Shredder" they're still two different people and giving Demon Shredder a different voice would've been the most subtle approach to that. With Cyber Shredder, it makes sense he'd sound like Ch'rell, but for the original Shredder? Nah, man, you don't need to have Scottie Ray play him to let the audience know he's a new Shredder the Turtles have to face, as good as he was in the role prior.Well he was trying to impersonate the Demon Shredder, so it makes sense he would try to copy his voice. Now how did he know what he sounded like at all is another story.

[Prowler]

There's a difference between taking things too seriously and being treated like an idiot. I mean, come on, it's mutant turtles doing martial arts - it can't be taken too seriously, but some incarnations do a good job of making the concept feel credible.

It's like the subject of this thread. None of the cartoon Sakis had authentic Japanese accents, despite the character explicitly being Japanese, but the voice talents have all done a great job of making the character feel credible - Japanese accent or no.

But a device that translates alien language into English...? How very convenient. Especially when the Earthlings are visiting other dimensions / planets / whatevers - the entire place uses a device to change their language so as to accommodate their unusual visitors???? Zero credibility there, just a whole lot of arrogance on the part of the English-speaking inhabitants of Earth.

That argument isn't valid for aliens since they're not real. We know damn well that, if there are aliens, they don't speak English or any other Earth language. Seriously, what would be the point in wasting time finding a method for aliens to understand English? Or an episode involving aliens where no one understands each other? Don't give me that "English speakers arrogance" mumbo jumbo, since in Japanese shows, aliens speak Japanese too. And I'm sure the same happens in cartoons in every language out there.

[Leo656]

The reason all aliens speak perfect "English", is that it's NOT "English", it's called "Galactic Basic". Or did you all f*cking forget? NERDS! :trazz:

[jenna]

That argument isn't valid for aliens since they're not real. We know damn well that, if there are aliens, they don't speak English or any other Earth language. Seriously, what would be the point in wasting time finding a method for aliens to understand English? Or an episode involving aliens where no one understands each other? Don't give me that "English speakers arrogance" mumbo jumbo, since in Japanese shows, aliens speak Japanese too. And I'm sure the same happens in cartoons in every language out there.

Oh dear. Clearly I took what was initially a joke too far.

Note to self: use emoticons.

:P

[ssjup81]

I see your point, but it's never bothered me.

Of bigger concern to me is how characters from other dimensions / universes / planets all speak flawless English.Yeah this has always bugged me, but like the fact that even the OT pointed out the ridiculousness of it. "We can't afford subtitles." :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That argument isn't valid for aliens since they're not real. We know damn well that, if there are aliens, they don't speak English or any other Earth language. Seriously, what would be the point in wasting time finding a method for aliens to understand English? Or an episode involving aliens where no one understands each other? Don't give me that "English speakers arrogance" mumbo jumbo, since in Japanese shows, aliens speak Japanese too. And I'm sure the same happens in cartoons in every language out there.



That's because alien translator devices work no matter WHAT language you're using. It could be English, German, Japanese, or heck, even Klingon. Hasn't Star Trek taught us ANYTHING??!! Universal translators are just that- UNIVERSAL!!


The reason all aliens speak perfect "English", is that it's NOT "English", it's called "Galactic Basic". Or did you all f*cking forget? NERDS! :trazz:


I know, right? :trolleye::trazz::twink::tlol:

[oceanfr]

Doesn't bother me, but I guess either way is fine.

[Prowler]

Oh dear. Clearly I took what was initially a joke too far.

Note to self: use emoticons.

:P
Didn't really seem like you were joking, though.

But hey, we all have used the "I was joking/trolling" cop out on the internet at least once in our lives.

[Drose18]

My thoughts are scottie ray had a badass voice. And I think OT started this trend making it more important to make shredder's voice intimidating rather than what it actually should be.

[jenna]

Didn't really seem like you were joking, though.

But hey, we all have used the "I was joking/trolling" cop out on the internet at least once in our lives.

Clearly I've offended you and for that I am genuinely sorry.

My first comment bringing up the subject of other lifeforms speaking English was a joke.

The second comment was not a joke. I was just expressing my frustration that too many shows/films/books these days rely on lazy, convenient plot devices to justify poor writing. It was not aimed at you, but to "the room", prompted by your comment.

I will be more careful in the future.

Anyway. I hope that clears things up and that you can accept my apology. But either way, this is not what this thread is about so perhaps we should move on.

My thoughts are scottie ray had a badass voice. And I think OT started this trend making it more important to make shredder's voice intimidating rather than what it actually should be.

Absolutely. Each actor has made the character credible, so their accent doesn't feel important.

[Yabuturtle]

I don't know if it's just me but it almost sounded like James Avery was sort of going for a japanese accent especially in the 1st season, which the way he forms his sentences, words, grunts, yells, ect. I actually thought the voice actor was asian. I mean I know he didn't have a thick Jaanese accent, but it surprised me to find out the voice actor wasn't asian.