CBM Movies Done Right?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So it seems pretty much a given that Marvel Studios is the only film company that does right by its characters. Some of Fox's X-Men movies have been decent, others have been nauseatingly bad.

So what would be your pitch, in one or two paragraphs, for one of the movies Marvel either can't or won't make?

Suggestions:

The Incredible Hulk 2
Fantastic Four
Uncanny X-Men
Ghost Rider
Black Widow

[chrisdude]

I'd love to see an Illuminati film. I love the idea of the secret circle of powerful people and geniuses exacting change on the world without anyone else knowing. Marvel doesn't have Reed Richards or Xavier, but they have Stark, Banner, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, etc. I'd love to see a film where the Illuminati makes a huge decision, the effects of which ripple through the entire MCU, affecting everyone, but that would go unexplained or totally unnoticed if you hadn't seen the film.

Also, a Spider-Woman film. I'm not sure whether she was off-limits to Marvel Studios. Some say Sony had the rights to everything "Spider-," even though she has nothing to do with Spider-Man. If that was the case, maybe that's over. I had no problem with Spider-Man being in a separate universe, but Spider-Woman and Captain Marvel need to be together. Plus, Spider-Woman has a Hydra background, clashes with SHIELD, etc, etc. It all fits nicely.

I would mention Ms. Marvel, but I'd bet my hard-earned money that they'll drop the terrigen bomb, and she'll be in the next phase.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

^^ YES, YES, YES!!! I would love all of that. We must think alike when it comes to Marvel. Also, a Spider-Woman movie could also work for bringing in the Secret Invasion arc, since she was the key to that entire storyline. (Perhaps the movie could end with her being "replaced" in preparation for the SA to take place.)

On second thought, no to the terrigen bomb, if that's what I think it is. I want the Danvers Ms. Marvel, not the cheap knock-off version. Other than that, I would like to see all of that.

[Cure]

"Comic book movie movies".

[Autbot_Benz]

Fantastic Four just let Marvel do it as a movie or Netflix. Stop letting Fox Ruin the franchise

Black Widow cause who wouldn't want a 2 hour movie of Scar Jo in tight black leather:P. Also I think the character is cool

[chrisdude]

^^ YES, YES, YES!!! I would love all of that. We must think alike when it comes to Marvel. Also, a Spider-Woman movie could also work for bringing in the Secret Invasion arc, since she was the key to that entire storyline. (Perhaps the movie could end with her being "replaced" in preparation for the SA to take place.)

On second thought, no to the terrigen bomb, if that's what I think it is. I want the Danvers Ms. Marvel, not the cheap knock-off version. Other than that, I would like to see all of that.I was, in fact, referring to the current Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan, the inhuman who got her powers from the terrigen mist.

Marvel confirmed that the Captain Marvel in the Captain Marvel movie is Danvers. So I would guess they're either changing her story so she was never Ms. Marvel, or introducing Ms. Marvel just as she takes up the title of Captain Marvel.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Urgh. Can't we just have her in space captured by the Kree? How hard is THAT?! They did it for Star Lord!! I just can't stand the "new" Ms. Marvel (for starters, she'd be more accurately a "Miss") for a variety of reasons. Starting with her entire origin. Terrigen mists only work on the Inhumans, and they have never BEEN "human", so she shouldn't even be able to BECOME one. After five issues, I came to despise everything about that character. Give me back the REAL Ms. Marvel.... Or Binary, or whatever else she want's to go by, but just let it be her. She's NOT a "legacy character". Any more than Dr. Strange is.

[Cure]

Black Widow cause who wouldn't want a 2 hour movie of Scar Jo in tight black leather:P. Also I think the character is cool

I sure wouldn't. Easily my least favorite part of all the Marvel movies.

[TurtleTitan97]

If we're specifically talking about Marvel, I would definitely like to see Namor the Sub-Mariner finally get his film made. Maybe even include the android Human Torch in an appearance and have them fight like the old days.

For DC, I'd like to see the New Gods turned into a film, with focus on Orion.

[chrisdude]

Urgh. Can't we just have her in space captured by the Kree? How hard is THAT?! They did it for Star Lord!! I just can't stand the "new" Ms. Marvel (for starters, she'd be more accurately a "Miss") for a variety of reasons. Starting with her entire origin. Terrigen mists only work on the Inhumans, and they have never BEEN "human", so she shouldn't even be able to BECOME one. After five issues, I came to despise everything about that character. Give me back the REAL Ms. Marvel.... Or Binary, or whatever else she want's to go by, but just let it be her. She's NOT a "legacy character". Any more than Dr. Strange is.I don't think I follow you. Carol Danvers and Kamala Khan coexist. Kamala isn't a new take on the character, she's a different person who took the title, as Carol wasn't using it anymore.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And this is just ONE of the reasons I can't stand her. There was no reason for a "new" Ms. Marvel just because the original changed her name again. She's done it several times, and almost always goes back. Sort of like when Spidey was using different names for a while, but went back to his old one in the end. Hec, Ant-Man (Pym) has done it too.

And that's part of the problem. Marvel has been treating some of its comic series as if the characters are nothing more than a name and/or a power-set. Hence why I called Kamala the "knock-off" version. I never said she was a new "take" on her, just that I dislike her, both as a successor to the name, AND as a character at all. To one-dimensional, stereotypical, and I HATE her powers. So lame.

[Slade]

So it seems pretty much a given that Marvel Studios is the only film company that does right by its characters.
[/LIST]


No, not they aren't.

[chrisdude]

And this is just ONE of the reasons I can't stand her. There was no reason for a "new" Ms. Marvel just because the original changed her name again. She's done it several times, and almost always goes back. Sort of like when Spidey was using different names for a while, but went back to his old one in the end. Hec, Ant-Man (Pym) has done it too.

And that's part of the problem. Marvel has been treating some of its comic series as if the characters are nothing more than a name and/or a power-set. Hence why I called Kamala the "knock-off" version. I never said she was a new "take" on her, just that I dislike her, both as a successor to the name, AND as a character at all. To one-dimensional, stereotypical, and I HATE her powers. So lame.Calling her a knock-off implies she's some kind of imitation. They're nothing alike, so I don't understand how this is offensive. Are you really attached to the name?

[ZariusTwo]

Kamala is'nt an imitation, but she is very annoying and mainly just a big commercial avatar for tumblr morons.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

No, not they aren't.

Sorry, I meant to say that Marvel Studios is the only studio faithful to Marvel characters. After all, DC/WB can use any of their characters they want.

[ZariusTwo]

Sorry, I meant to say that Marvel Studios is the only studio faithful to Marvel characters.

It's also the only branch of Marvel itself that is faithful to Marvel characters.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Calling her a knock-off implies she's some kind of imitation. They're nothing alike, so I don't understand how this is offensive. Are you really attached to the name?


Because she's a crappy one-note wanna-be from the get-go. I mean even her "origin" is about as cheap and lazy as you can get. She CONVENTIENTLY gets (really dumb) powers, and suddenly she's taking on the persona of the very hero she idolizes most? Please. I'm disgusted by the entire concept, as it's a sign of very lazy writing, not to mention that the characters in her comic are all pretty stereotypical and predictable to begin with. And it's not the NAME I'm attached to, it's the character and who she IS. Carol has changed her name several times (and lost her powers and memory at one point) so it's not so much what she calls herself that I care about- it's the fact that the "new" holder of that particular name (who never even asked for the original holder's permission to use it) isn't worthy of it, either in OR out of universe. Kamala is a joke, tot a good character.


Kamala is'nt an imitation, but she is very annoying and mainly just a big commercial avatar for tumblr morons.

^This, completely. Among other things.

[chrisdude]

She's inhuman. It's in her bloodline. The mist that awakened her abilities swept the entire planet in a fairly large Marvel event, so it's not like they threw together something just for her. That's like saying a mutant has a lazy origin because all they did was grow into their teens.

But you don't have to like the character. I think it's a pretty fun book. I assume she's well received, but I don't know how it's selling. Marvel is in "push the female-fronted books, no matter what" mode, anyway. I know Captain Marvel isn't a big seller, but she's still getting a movie over Widow.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm sorry, but I don't even buy that "she's Inhuman" load of crock. First off, the Inhumans live ON THE MOON. They don't even mingle with normal humans, and rarely ever have- for a reason. They tend to keep to themselves unless directly threatened, and certainly don't "breed" with normal humans when they do get involved on Earth. They consider themselves "above" human affairs, and well they should. They have been around far longer, and were technically created as a superior version of the human race. (Humans were a second and apparently flawed experiment. Both were created by aliens, from the original proto-human stock- but the Inhumans were fully civilized when normal humans were still living in caves.) Normal humans are not affected by the Terrigan mist, either. De-powered mutants can be, but it warps their powers when it re-activates them. We've seen this when Pietro tried to use it to re-power mutants after M-Day. Her entire origin hinges on a ridiculous improbability, especially since the Inhumans are pretty much all Caucasian in appearance, and she's definitely NOT. It makes NO sense whatsoever.

They also have some slightly arrogant views regarding outsiders, as seen when Johnny was dating Crystal. Many of them disapproved, simply because he is an outsider. How much worse do you think it is if one falls for a "lowly" human? Blackbolt and Medusa are more tolerant, but only because of extensive dealings with them.

With mutants, it's a bit different, since they already HAVE the gene from birth, it just doesn't develop (typically- there are a few exceptions) until later during puberty. They may take time to develop their powers, but they are NATURAL. The Inhumans also are prone to deformities from the mist- in other words, just being exposed to it is no guarantee of gaining powers even for a full-blood Inhuman; it can also cause horrible physical changes instead or in addition. That's why they have a ritual to prepare them for it. Just dropping a terrigan bomb on a bunch of people is more likely to just horribly disfigure or mutate them into monstrous forms. Imagine how much more likely that would be to someone who is only 1/16th or less.... (And given her family seems pretty pure and traditional Muslim for generations, I find that EXTREMELY unlikely she's even have THAT much, if any.) It's just really unrealistic to expect long-time readers to swallow that as a plausible origin. It fails on EVERY level regarding the Inhumans.

[Candy Kappa]

Kamala is a human with Inhuman genes. So a Inhuman got freaky with a human at one point in history, get over it.

It's like freaking over that Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk by Gamma rays, when it's completely implausible. Freaky stuff happens in Superhero comics.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

See, when something doesn't make sense within the established rules and history of the universe, I have a problem with that. No, Banner's powers aren't a good comparison, because it was established that that was possible IN THAT WORLD. How did she GET any "Inhuman genes?" Which one of her Arabic ancestors "got freaky" with one, and how or why? Because it's really just a cop-out excuse for her "wish-fulfillment" powers(which they are), unless they've been seeding humanity with their genes for a really long time- and someone would've noticed.

Isn't it just a BIT convenient that an Avengers fan-girl who daydreams about having powers suddenly GETS them? And from a really unrealistic source, at that. When her family is of a very obviously different ethnic/religious group from most American heroes, that is both insular and strict about contact with those outside their own group. As are the Inhumans themselves. Culturally, I don't see any of HER ancestors doing that, nor do I see the Inhumans themselves having done it when they've only been interacting with humans for a few decades. Medusa's first appearance was in an early issue of Spider-Man, and prior to that, none of the others (who were not introduced yet either, IIRC) had ever come down to Earth. So it's IMPOSSIBLE. Her entire origin basically goes against everything Marvel has established about the Inhumans and their history.

[Candy Kappa]

Because Marvel have never done any retcons before?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Your point? We're talking about continuity, which I hear is a thing. Ret-cons are one thing- and they usually come from some weird time or reality altering event and past history changes to fit. This came out of- where, exactly?

After reading the first five issue TPB, that wasn't even my biggest complaint, since that "explanation" apparently didn't come about until later. And I didn't read any of the comics that centered on it, so I knew nothing about where she got them until later. But considering everything ELSE that was wrong with it, I wasn't really surprised they decided to use something so dumb. But what I DID read was just- awful. Trite, cheap, lazy and juvenile. It was written like bad fan-fiction, which is ironic considering that the main character does just that. After reading that TBP, I honestly felt ripped-off for having wasted my time on it- and for the library having wasted their money on something so terrible.

I firmly believe that if you're going to write about superheroes in an established universe with a long and complex history, do your friggin homework first. Consistency!

[Candy Kappa]

It's not that hard to imagine a Inhumam having an adventure with a human in the past. Kamala's genes was dormant until she was afflicted by the mist.

What if. When Attillan was still in the Atlantic Ocean, they would get visits from ships. So, what if a Viking ship docked in Atillan (which have happened). A Viking and a Inhuman got together and had a good time. The Viking Athen leaves with the ship, now pregnant with the Inhuman's child. That child grows up and goes Viking like their parent, and becomes a world traveling sailor, as the Norse did.

The Norse traveled to America and interacted with the Navajo (whom they dubbed Skrælinger), and they travelled to Africa White they met and traded with Africans which they called Blåmenn. And they also traveled all the way up to the Middle East, primarily Persia where they not only traded goods, but also did mercenary work, and settled, as there are evidence of Norse people living there and traveled back home converted to the new faith.

So, the half-Inhuman Viking could have settled down in the Middle East, and therefore being one off Kamela's ancestors.

And that's just a bare minimum effort headcanon done on the fly.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Problem is, that idea would be too far back to matter genetically. Genes would be too "watered down" by time and the number of generations involved for it to even remotely affect anything. It would have literally been bred out of them by now from dilution. And since as I've mentioned Medusa was the FIRST Inhuman to visit Earth in more than ten thousand years(or more- Marvel is vague on when they left), it's a moot point. No humans would be left with enough/any Inhuman blood to even qualify, if there were ever any at all to begin with.

[chrisdude]

There were inhumans all over the world, who didn't know they were inhuman, because they were so far removed, generationally, from the others. Their powers were dormant, until they were exposed to the mist, just like other inhumans. This was established, previously, in a big Marvel event called Inhumanity. That mist was floating across the world, unlocking the powers hidden in unsuspecting people, long before it reached Kamala. She was one of many. It only appears that the terrigen mist was revealed later because that the Ms. Marvel comic didn't touch on it until Kamala found out. But if you had been following Marvel comics at the time, you would've known exactly what that mist was when you saw it in issue #1.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Again, it doesn't really matter, the idea in itself was flawed, for the reasons I've stated. And even if it weren't, the entire book just left a really bad taste from the first few pages. I read through all five issues of the TPB, hoping it would get better. It didn't. That was more than enough to convince me that the writer had no idea what they were doing. And that "event" sounds like a bad idea anyway. Kamala and everyone else in the book are simply tropes with names.

The Inhumans left Earth for the moon LONG before "normal" humans would've been advanced enough to be of any interest to them in a romantic sense. They have been completely separate for about 25,000 years. Also, they have a rigid caste system in which individuality is encouraged on a personal level, but every member must conform to their place within their society. Their culture also strictly PROHIBITS breeding between them and other races. So Kamala and all those other "latent Inhumans" CAN'T have any Inhuman blood- their laws prohibit any breeding outside their own kind!

And just so it's clear how they view humans-

Direct quotes from ASM #62:

Medusa: "He who rules the proud and powerful Inhumans has sent me here to learn whether the rest of mankind still fears us, or whether we may at last rejoin the unthinking, suspicious human race!"

Spidey: "Hold it, long-hair! What's your hurry? If you're taking a public opinion poll, why not start with me?"

M: "Costumed adventurers such as yourself are not typical of the rest of humanity.! I seek the reaction of the average man... Something you could never be!"

And from later in the same issue:

M: {Though the humans are not as hostile as we may have feared, their intelligence leaves much to be desired!}

And again:

M: "Without further ado, let me leave your race of madmen!"

And this was from the one sent to determine whether or not the Inhumans would even return to Earth AT ALL. After having been separate for 25,000 years. So no, they had NOT been "getting freaky" with any humans- they felt that humans were BENEATH them!

As an aside, Blackbolt was introduced in Fantastic Four #45. The initial Kree experiments that created the Inhumans was based on DNA from the Eternals, spliced into early Cro-Magnon DNA (which the Celestials had already been tampering with.) The mutations and defects from the Terrigan mist experiments led to long-term selective breeding, to lessen the genetic damage and deformities.

[Candy Kappa]

And this was from the one sent to determine whether or not the Inhumans would even return to Earth AT ALL. After having been separate for 25,000 years. So no, they had NOT been "getting freaky" with any humans- they felt that humans were BENEATH them!

Just because the general consensus of the Inhumans had derogatory views on humans, doesn't mean all off them saw it that way.

All white people have neanderthal genes from interbreeding, It's not far fetched that it also happened with humans and Inhumans.

[Redeemer]

So it seems pretty much a given that Marvel Studios is the only film company that does right by its characters. Some of Fox's X-Men movies have been decent, others have been nauseatingly bad.

So what would be your pitch, in one or two paragraphs, for one of the movies Marvel either can't or won't make?

Suggestions:

The Incredible Hulk 2
Fantastic Four
Uncanny X-Men
Ghost Rider
Black Widow


lol can someone say "bias"???????:lol:
I am curious do you read any of the Iron-man comics???? Iron-man/Tony Stark in the movies is very different from his comic counter-part. They never explore Tony Stark's emotional/drinking issues which could have been great for character development. Also in the comics from what I have read Iron-man is not the sarcastic type.

Amazing Spider-man was more faithful to the "Ultimate" comics than Marvel was to any of its characters.

I definitely would like to see Marvel take a crack at Ghost Rider.

[chrisdude]

Again, it doesn't really matter, the idea in itself was flawed, for the reasons I've stated. And even if it weren't, the entire book just left a really bad taste from the first few pages. I read through all five issues of the TPB, hoping it would get better. It didn't. That was more than enough to convince me that the writer had no idea what they were doing. And that "event" sounds like a bad idea anyway. Kamala and everyone else in the book are simply tropes with names.

The Inhumans left Earth for the moon LONG before "normal" humans would've been advanced enough to be of any interest to them in a romantic sense. They have been completely separate for about 25,000 years. Also, they have a rigid caste system in which individuality is encouraged on a personal level, but every member must conform to their place within their society. Their culture also strictly PROHIBITS breeding between them and other races. So Kamala and all those other "latent Inhumans" CAN'T have any Inhuman blood- their laws prohibit any breeding outside their own kind!

And just so it's clear how they view humans-

Direct quotes from ASM #62:

Medusa: "He who rules the proud and powerful Inhumans has sent me here to learn whether the rest of mankind still fears us, or whether we may at last rejoin the unthinking, suspicious human race!"

Spidey: "Hold it, long-hair! What's your hurry? If you're taking a public opinion poll, why not start with me?"

M: "Costumed adventurers such as yourself are not typical of the rest of humanity.! I seek the reaction of the average man... Something you could never be!"

And from later in the same issue:

M: {Though the humans are not as hostile as we may have feared, their intelligence leaves much to be desired!}

And again:

M: "Without further ado, let me leave your race of madmen!"

And this was from the one sent to determine whether or not the Inhumans would even return to Earth AT ALL. After having been separate for 25,000 years. So no, they had NOT been "getting freaky" with any humans- they felt that humans were BENEATH them!

As an aside, Blackbolt was introduced in Fantastic Four #45. The initial Kree experiments that created the Inhumans was based on DNA from the Eternals, spliced into early Cro-Magnon DNA (which the Celestials had already been tampering with.) The mutations and defects from the Terrigan mist experiments led to long-term selective breeding, to lessen the genetic damage and deformities.A division took place before their society really grew. They refused terrigenisis and hid away from the others. So 25,000 years ago, those inhumans never left Earth. They never became part of that society who thinks humans are beneath them. They were in hiding. In the time since, they did eventually breed with humans.

And, yes, some of these newly transformed inhumans of present day do have horrific deformities.

Also, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't Magneto's kids. Things change. Truths get discovered. This is comics.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Also, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't Magneto's kids. Things change. Truths get discovered. This is comics.

Or, y'know, the corporate Powers That Be need to align their comics with their films. For reasons. :tlol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Or, y'know, the corporate Powers That Be need to align their comics with their films. For reasons. :tlol:


Exactly. The original history was complex enough without adding some "Oh, but we forgot to tell you THIS!" kind of "twist" just so they can fit better with the movies. SW and Q were ALWAYS Mag's kids. This was established LONG ago, as they were born to HIS WIFE before she died. Polaris is the only one of his children who was never biologically "his". Allegedly. Using a cheap and convenient way of "activating" the "latent powers" of a bunch of random humans all over the globe at once just to A) create a bunch of new heroes, and B) explain away how they GOT those powers in a way that basically negates the historic views of an entire RACE, just feels forced and unrealistic- not to mention really heavy-handed. But of course, the new generation of writers and higher-ups at Marvel don't understand that.

I'm in agreement that they HAVE been treating their movie properties better than their actual comics in the past, oh, eight or nine years, now. Ever since they had the (cough) genius idea of ret-conning Spidey's marriage out of existence just to realte to the younger generation of readers, who really don't care one way or the other anyway. Most of those readers got into it because of the movies, and guess what? He and M-J were in a relationship in those, too! So why go and rip out something that was already established in everyone's mind, no matter how old they were, and tell them, "Hey, now it never happened"? That's just a slap in the face to ALL the fans. And now they are doing it with the Inhumans, too- just to squeeze a new hero into their number with a bizarre and ridiculous explanation of her origin.

Here's a tip for writers working in ANY comic universe- if it requires a major ret-con or "caveat" addendum of something already long established in the universe, DON'T DO IT! Because that should raise a red flag already that it's not a GOOD idea, and will likely piss off fans. Not to mention that means MORE legwork later in going back and explaining how/why this "new" thing is true/happened/etc. And when you work on a tight deadline for stories like comics, that's the LAST thing you need as a writer, or that the OTHER writers and/or editors/artists, etc need. And it's disrespectful to the writers whose hard work has already been established as canon.