What Do You Live For?

[Powder]

Other than family, that is. What makes you want to get up & seize the day? Do you have an end goal? Are you waiting for something? What makes you feel whole other than other people?

[Cure]

It's a little difficult for me answer without mentioning other people because they do mean a lot to me.

But in the short term, I'm taking a class soon that will hopefully lead to working in a field that I've been wanting to for a while now. I'm pretty excited for that, honestly.

[Mew]

Other than family, I want to go into graphic design. I'll do a self-published comic. Then, I hope to get to Marvel and draw comics.

[Prowler]

I'm not really sure, to be honest. I guess that there just seems to always be something that makes me not want to die anytime soon. Of course, family is the first thing that comes to my mind. But there's also simple things such as a new drink, a new video game, a new store, etc. I'd like to, at least, finish my backlogs and my bucket list. Don't have a dream or anything, but I have some goals. Currently, I'm in university, so there's something I need to finish.

[Candy Kappa]

I'm gonna sounds incredible pretentious and say, I live for art.

[Jester]

This guy:
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11224564_705594397529_8878555563101975034_n.jpg?oh =b756af5542ecd8e554fced277e235684&oe=5678B0BB

EDIT: Who didn't read the 1st post? THIS GUY!!! But to be fair, I could probably give almost anything up...but that kid is my life.

[Eiko]

Now I know you said besides family but my 3 sons are my life love them to bits. all I really want is to watch them grow guide them be there for them in need and the rest. just cant bear life without them.

[PangolinFeets]

I have a drive to succeed and feel accomplished. I've been working hard towards my education and career and just knowing my plan for the future is extremely satisfying.

Plus, I like stuff. I'm definitely a stuff person.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'd have to say writing is my life. It's something I've always loved, and always wanted to do. My dream would be to write comics for a living, but as long as I can still hold a pen or use a keyboard, I will keep writing. It's my joy and passion.

[Mew]

This guy:
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11224564_705594397529_8878555563101975034_n.jpg?oh =b756af5542ecd8e554fced277e235684&oe=5678B0BB

EDIT: Who didn't read the 1st post? THIS GUY!!! But to be fair, I could probably give almost anything up...but that kid is my life.
I didn't. I was gonna put family, but nope.

[pennydreadful]

It varies from day to day - some days are better than others. On the rougher days, I just focus on the small pleasures, rather than worrying about the big picture.

[Katie]

Besides family....

I mean, everything I do is for my family. I always want to do more, be better, be the best. I want everyone in my family to have everything they want and need. Working hard and earning respect at work, giving 150% so that when anyone thinks of who the best person for the next job is, I'm the name on the top of the list.

It's the only way that I can make my family proud of me. All the stress, all the long hours, all the years of school....it's all worth it if it allows me to take care of the people in my life.

[CyberCubed]

The future of the world. I'm being serious, I'm fascinated by how the world changes every decade. The 80's and 90's are so different than today and I can't imagine what the world will be like 10-20 years from now.

The change in technology is fascinating. Sometimes I feel like we're living in the future. We have a computer in the size of our pocket for goodness sakes (phones), and now people can have robotic limbs, we have computers that talk to us, we have all the information in the world at the palm of a finger (the internet), the entertainment industry continues to push forward more and more, etc.

The mere fact that we may also find cures for cancer and various diseases in our lifetimes, a cure for blindness or being deaf, and might actually see man land on Mars or build a space station on the Moon is fascinating.

[Prowler]

The future of the world. I'm being serious, I'm fascinated by how the world changes every decade. The 80's and 90's are so different than today and I can't imagine what the world will be like 10-20 years from now.

The change in technology is fascinating. Sometimes I feel like we're living in the future. We have a computer in the size of our pocket for goodness sakes (phones), and now people can have robotic limbs, we have computers that talk to us, we have all the information in the world at the palm of a finger (the internet), the entertainment industry continues to push forward more and more, etc.

The mere fact that we may also find cures for cancer and various diseases in our lifetimes, a cure for blindness or being deaf, and might actually see man land on Mars or build a space station on the Moon is fascinating.
I don't think all of that will happen in the next 10-20 years, though. Especially not the landing on Mars thing. We still have a long way to go when it comes to developing good enough technology to travel in space.

As for cures for cancer and HIV... that could have happened already. In fact, every year there's a newspaper article or something stating that a cure for those diseases has been found or is being developed. The pharmacy industry just simply doesn't allow those diseases to be eliminated, because that means less money for them.

[Kanon]

The alternative of getting out of the bed and live my life to the fullest is just toooooooo boring :P

Reasons for me other than family and my cat:
Reading cool fantasy books, eating delicious things and try to tan as much as possible.

(I am almost vampire white. My doctor finally found the reason why and now I can sunbathe like everyone else! YAY! :D)

[snake]

I don't know

[Leo656]

I honestly don't know. I do know I'd never put friends or family, as in my experience how much people care about you is directly related to what they can get out of you. When you work 6-7 days a week and make it clear that no, you can't just take off work to go to the bar or the beach because you have responsibilities, people stop taking your phone calls pretty quick. As for family... in mine there's the rich side and the poor side. The rich side doesn't talk to anyone who's not rich, and the poor side only ever talks to me to see if I have any money for them, or if I can help them move, or some other "favor", never ever just to say hello or see how I'm doing. So I'd never, ever say I "live for" friends and family because in my experience they're parasites. Not that I don't "care" about them, I do and I care that they are well. I just don't "live" for them and they're not a particularly big part of my life.

At this point I guess work. That's really all I do, work and play some video games before bed. After struggling for years to get to do a job I actually like doing it feels great to do something positive that really makes a difference in people's lives. Just yesterday I got one of my clients to sign up for our gym's nutrition program, and during the pre-screening interview he mentioned that he's about to have another kid but is really scared that he won't be able to be active with them because he keeps gaining weight as he gets older. It's important to me that I have an opportunity to help people fix themselves, be healthier, and live better. It's very rewarding work that I do, although it should pay a lot more than it does given the fact that our country's in a seriously bad state as far as obesity and nutritional pollution. It kind of bothers me that services like mine are still considered to be something of a "luxury expenditure", when half the country is obese and frankly, if people could get themselves in better shape on their own, they would have already. But it does pay pretty well and emotionally and spiritually it's very rewarding. I never feel like my day was a waste.

So I guess work, and the fact that I still feel like I haven't peaked yet.

[senpai]

I live for the moment. :) Not in the crazy sense like "YOLO I'mma do all this crazy stuff!" No. I just flow and let things happen, and usually I'm pleasantly surprised by joy. Other times, crap happens lol but then it's over and I move on.

[Prowler]

I live for the moment. :) Not in the crazy sense like "YOLO I'mma do all this crazy stuff!" No. I just flow and let things happen, and usually I'm pleasantly surprised by joy. Other times, crap happens lol but then it's over and I move on.
I'm a bit like that as well. Wouldn't say I live for the moment per se, though. More like things happen and I adapt to the situation and try to make something out of it.

[senpai]

That's good too :)

Sometimes if I try to make the most of something, I'll develop an expectation of some sort for my efforts, and that could be a letdown when things don't go how you wanted. So I try not to try...as paradoxical as that may sound lol

[BubblyShell22]

I live for myself mostly. I enjoy writing so that always brings a smile to my face when I can write a good story and see people react to it. I do live for my BF, too, and some members of my family (my brother and mom mostly) and that's about it really.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Other than my family (not the family I have or was born with, but the family I've MADE, both in blood and in spirit), story is what drives me. Whether I write them, or enjoy them as TV, books, comics, or movies, that's what my passion is and what I get excited about.

[Unworthy tinker]

Family aside, I'd have to go with art in general. I like to do both, drawing and writing. Otherwise, eh, I don't really have my future mapped out.

[BubblyShell22]

Besides family....

I mean, everything I do is for my family. I always want to do more, be better, be the best. I want everyone in my family to have everything they want and need. Working hard and earning respect at work, giving 150% so that when anyone thinks of who the best person for the next job is, I'm the name on the top of the list.

It's the only way that I can make my family proud of me. All the stress, all the long hours, all the years of school....it's all worth it if it allows me to take care of the people in my life.

I used to want to make my family proud of me, too, but I've come to learn that at the end of the day, it's about what I want in life and not about them. As long as I'm happy with what I do and who I'm with, that's all that matters. I don't need to make them happy or please them with anything I do. I tried that, and all it did was put unwanted pressure on me to please them and I don't need that. I need to be happy with what I want and if they don't like it, too bad. At the end of the day, it's not about them, it's about what all of us want in life and not about making them happy.

I'm all for taking care of family members as long as they appreciate you, but if they don't, then there's no point to it. I'll be willing to take care of my mom, but to hell with my dad. I don't care about him or what happens to him anymore. He's just a selfish prick who doesn't care about anyone but himself, so screw him.

[Katie]

I don't do it for just anything. I do it because I am literally the only means of support for multiple family members. It's absolutely my duty to take care of them. I've been blessed with great success in my life. I'm not going to be a selfish b!tch and not help them out if they need it.

If my bills are paid and I've got food, I'm not going to sit on my leftover cash when I have family who can't afford to pay their mortgage or put food on their table.

I don't have kids. I can't have them. My only way of making good on my family name is to give 110% every day and be the very best of anything I do. Too many people depend on me for me to just sit idle and figure things aren't my problem.

So, every morning when that alarm goes off at 5:30, I get up because if I don't, it's not just my life that is put in jeopardy. I literally work for everyone in my life so my whole family is better off.

Whether or not they appreciate it or thank me for it means absolutely nothing to me. My satisfaction comes from everyone having what they need. They could treat me like sh!t and I'll still give them anything they need. That's what family means to me.

[Amaranthus]

Terrorizing online forums.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't do it for just anything. I do it because I am literally the only means of support for multiple family members. It's absolutely my duty to take care of them. I've been blessed with great success in my life. I'm not going to be a selfish b!tch and not help them out if they need it.

If my bills are paid and I've got food, I'm not going to sit on my leftover cash when I have family who can't afford to pay their mortgage or put food on their table.

I don't have kids. I can't have them. My only way of making good on my family name is to give 110% every day and be the very best of anything I do. Too many people depend on me for me to just sit idle and figure things aren't my problem.

So, every morning when that alarm goes off at 5:30, I get up because if I don't, it's not just my life that is put in jeopardy. I literally work for everyone in my life so my whole family is better off.

Whether or not they appreciate it or thank me for it means absolutely nothing to me. My satisfaction comes from everyone having what they need. They could treat me like sh!t and I'll still give them anything they need. That's what family means to me.

Hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't support your family if they need it, but to me, if they don't appreciate you for what you do, then there's no point in giving them what they want. I certainly wouldn't do it if it was me. It's one thing if they're grateful and appreciative, but if a family member treats me like sh*t, I'm not going to bother helping them out at all until they learn to show gratitude. And if family members ARE treating you that way, then that's awful of them to do that when you're working your a** off to try and be nice and help them out. And if they aren't treating you horribly, then that's great because they shouldn't. But if they do, maybe you should remind them about how hard you work and that if it wasn't for you, they wouldn't have anything at all. That's what I would do.

My family loyalty only runs so deep.

[Katie]

Doing things like what I do is never about expecting thanks and gratitude. It's simply about doing what is right.

If I was unemployed or underemployed and had to live at home with my parents, I'd recognize someone was supporting me and I'd be grateful. That's no different than what I'm doing. I'm sure those I help realize they can't live their lives without me, but I wouldn't cut them off from my support just because they don't constantly thank me, kiss my a$$, and give me recognition. That's mean as hell and not being a good person. It'd be like in the scenario where I lived at home and my parents suddenly decided to kick me out. Where would I go? What would I do? I don't make enough to support myself, what if no one else felt like taking me in? It'd be evil of me to do that to a family member.

Half of them I barely see or hear from. They live all over the country. As long as they are ok and have food and a roof, I don't need thanks. It's just my responsibility to take care of them. Just like I would a child who wasn't working.

That's my life. I live to serve.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I'm afraid I'm with Bubbly on this one. There's a difference between having family loyalty, and being taken advantage of and/or treated like a doormat and a meal ticket. Some family just are not worth the effort. Loyalty is one thing, but when they start expecting it just BECAUSE you're family, that when it's time to sever the ties and use "tough love" so that they learn how to survive on their own. It's not mean, it's NORMAL. It's basic survival- if they can't make it on their own without constant hand-outs, they need to be in some kind of home or someplace that will either teach them how to make it on their own, or will provide long-term care if they can't. Pretty simple really.

Also, there are some family who, for whatever reason, will always act as if you are there just to make THEIR lives easier, or as if your life should revolve around them for- reasons. These are people who are manipulative, who like to guilt-trip family into doing things for them, or who are controlling in various ways- and they don't DESERVE your time or help. They are parasites, preying on the good will and loyalty of family, just to get what they want. I have family members like that, and I'd wager so do most people. Cutting these types of family off is not mean, it's an act of self-preservation and removing toxic individuals from our lives. It hardly matters that they're related to us- they are still just as bad as anyone else who tries to take advantage of someone's good will!

[Katie]

Not doing it for guilt or recognition, doing it because I want to. That's not being a doormat, that's being kind to someone who does not have the means to support themselves.

You say they should be in a home somewhere if they are adults and can't support themselves? I bet there are quite a few adults here who cannot support themselves and live at home with parents

All I want is my family fed and cared for. Because I can and because I love them and it's the right thing to do. Certainly it's ideal for adults to support themselves, but if I'm very well off and some in my family aren't, I want to do what I can for them. I want to. Not have to. Not guilted to. And not because I'm asked to. Because I can. And because I want to.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I was referring to adults who are literally incapable of supporting themselves either physically or mentally, as opposed to those who simply "can't" because "reasons". In the former case, they likely need the kind of professional care that no family (and especially family who is miles away, as it seems is true in your case from what you posted) can give on a regular basis. In the latter case, they need to learn how to make their own living, even if that means being "mean" or whatever. I'm sorry, but by continuing to provide for their keep long-term just because YOU feel it's the right thing to do, all it does is make you an enabler. Which is actually NOT what they really need. I've seen too much of that sort of thing not to know it when I see it.

I've had to live with family myself before, but it was TEMPORARY, and I got the heck back out as soon as I could. If they are "unable" to care for themselves, one has to wonder why. Without knowing their situations, I can't say for sure, but it sounds like family moochers, and Goddess knows my family has its share of those, so I know what that is like. Being the saint who provides for everyone is not only bad for them, but it's draining on yourself, as well, taking responsibility for people who should (if they're adults as you seemed to indicate) be able to take care of themselves. They aren't your responsibility, family or not. So why exactly DO you want to be their caretaker? Smells a bit like martyrdom, to me. Because I can almost guarantee that if the roles were reversed, at least some of them probably wouldn't have the same kind of family loyalty and altruism that you've given them. Unless they're all saints, too, which I kind of doubt.

I guess at the end of the day, it's your prerogative, but honestly, as a human being with needs and feelings of my own, I would NOT continue to be so kind-hearted to ANYONE who takes advantage of my good will repeatedly. I don't do it for friends, and I wouldn't do it just because I share blood with someone, either. Because even family doesn't deserve that kind of selfless love and concern when they've given little or nothing in return. In fact, with some of the folks whom I have the misfortune of being related to, what they really deserve is a swift kick in the rear- right out the door.

[Katie]

And maybe the family members I'm helping need help for reasons just like adults who live with parents.

Like having to go on disability and not making enough to buy food and pay the bills. Like losing their job during the recession and not being able to find work. Like a death in the family and income is suddenly not there like it was. Like being a child who doesn't get what they need for school or have groceries at home unless family pitches in because although wic is available an food stamps are available, it just isn't enough.

I can't have 6 families live with me. I'd rather them stay where they are and be comfortable.

I mean, jeez. People b!tch about people being on public assistance and want families to take care of their own. And when someone admits that they do, they are shamed for supporting freeloaders.

Good old conservative values. Hold on to your money and let someone else feed the poor.....just don't put my taxes on it. I wanna keep my money.

[ssjup81]

I wish I could answer this. At this point I just don't know...Not doing it for guilt or recognition, doing it because I want to. That's not being a doormat, that's being kind to someone who does not have the means to support themselves.

You say they should be in a home somewhere if they are adults and can't support themselves? I bet there are quite a few adults here who cannot support themselves and live at home with parents

All I want is my family fed and cared for. Because I can and because I love them and it's the right thing to do. Certainly it's ideal for adults to support themselves, but if I'm very well off and some in my family aren't, I want to do what I can for them. I want to. Not have to. Not guilted to. And not because I'm asked to. Because I can. And because I want to.If I were still back in the US, I'd have no choice but to live at home...lack of job security and how expensive apartments are.

[Jester]

I gotta commend you, Katie. From what i wa reading you do what you do for your family, not out of guilt, or wanting accolades, but because you feel it's what you as a person should do. No being a door-mat, but doing your level best to make sure your family can make it. It's admirable.

I do have one question: If someone DID seem to take it all for granted and continue making bad choices because you'd be there to bail them out, would you finally cave and say, "Enough! I've been here to help you but you've taken that for granted, now it's time for you to feel the pinch of your own poor choices!"?

[Katie]

Surely. I have Those in the family too. I don't support drug habits or able people who laze at home because that's easy. I buy groceries and help with mortgages. I'm a sucker for the kids. Kids should have a roof and food even if their parents can't seem to figure out money management.

[Jester]

Surely. I have Those in the family too. I don't support drug habits or able people who laze at home because that's easy. I buy groceries and help with mortgages. I'm a sucker for the kids. Kids should have a roof and food even if their parents can't seem to figure out money management.
Totally the answer I expected. Keep doing what makes you happy.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I can respect that if that's your situation, but speaking as someone who's been through plenty of hard times myself, I know that most people CAN do for themselves, if they really want to. I get by without WIC or food stamps just fine, even though I've been the ONLY income provider for myself and my husband (who turned 40 while in the hospital- where he found out he now has high blood pressure and kidney failure in addition to being diabetic and having a mid-foot amputation a little over a year and a half ago).

We live in a rent-controlled apartment, and visit the food bank once a month, but otherwise, no hand-outs or help from family or anyone else. And I've been doing that for nearly three years now. He just started getting disability a couple of months ago, but prior to that, I paid for ALL the bills, medication, food, and everything else, and only had family help out twice in that time- because most of our family has bills and problems of their own to take care of. And we've never once asked for their help- because we don't want to be dependent on anyone else for our home or health. And I do this all on a fast-food wage. So anyone who says they CAN'T do it, is just deluding themselves, IMHO.

But then again, you should feel very blessed that you're prosperous enough that you CAN do all that. I'd set my mom up for certain if I was in a position where that was possible, but there are other family members that can just bite me, because they're not worth that kind of assistance. Like pedophilic, bigoted pieces of human garbage who would rather try to bribe someone to leave their spouse than give said spouse any respect or concern, or irresponsible dead-beats who spend more time doing drugs and spending days away from home (to manufacture and sell said drugs) than take care of their own kids, and end up in prison for ten years. Or- well, you get the idea. I guess you're just really lucky in life.....

If I were to live for anyone, it would be my husband. Not because I don't care about my family, but because he has been there for me, when no one else was- including family. Other than that, it would be my mom, because I hate that she's in a situation where she lives under the belief that she's dependent on someone who is not even half the man she deserves. I've even offered to let her stay with us and share costs and space, but she is too afraid of losing her security to go for it. And that makes me sad. But it's her choice. But if I could, I'd help her get out of that marriage in a heartbeat.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I live for my music; both playing it and listening to it.

[Katie]

I guess you're just really lucky in life.....

I've really not been that lucky. All my life has been hard hard work. I'm from a poor family. I've had plenty of no food days because the money was gone. Even as an adult I had plenty of those no food days. But I had to keep giving everything I had and more. And it's paid off.

All that hard work and struggling makes me appreciate where I am. But I never forget how hard it was growing up and trying to figure out how I was going to be better.

In life, you hope your children are better off than you are. It's your legacy in the world. As badly as I want children, as badly as I wanted to have that kind of legacy, it will never be. My only legacy is in my actions in this life. If I can pass on the fruit of my labor to help someone who is struggling, I'm going to do it. And when my life is over, hopefully it will have meant something to someone that I was here.

Hopefully some of the kids in my family will be more than they would have been...have more opportunity than I did....because I was able to give them a boost in life. I can only keep going. And keep hoping.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

It's good that you worked hard for it, but what I mean is that you're lucky to have had that opportunity and to have succeeded as much as you have when many people never make it that far. You're lucky to have been able to have that hard work pay off, while many people work themselves to the bone their entire lives, and never have anything to show for it. SO yeah, you are very lucky indeed. Anyway, glad that it makes you happy.

As for me, family has always been a mixed bag. On the one hand, I'm grateful to my mom for helping me to be the person I am, and allowing me the opportunities to see so much more of what the world has to offer than most kids ever got to see- things like trips that broadened my experience and knowledge, books that helped me learn to love reading and knowledge, tolerance and understanding for people who were different, and just having someone to talk to when I needed it.

On the other hand, there are a few others whom I could take or leave, and one whom I actively despise for being the worst human being I've ever known. So I guess my views on family are somewhat tarnished by that, for good or bad, but it has taught me that family loyalty and concern is a two-way street, and if it's not reciprocated, then there's not much point in having it to begin with. I have my dad to thank for that.

[Etsyturtle2]

I live to correct people when I'm right.

[Jephael]

I live for entertainment. I want to be an entertainer in some capacity as a writer. I've got a friend back home in the Philadelphia area who shares that same passion, and together we hope to produce the next wave of original television programs and movies. At the same time though I'd prefer to start small and get my book published,. It takes time to formulate a good plot, and it takes some baby steps to get there.

[CyberCubed]

Out of curiosity how do you plan on doing that? It takes a lot of work to get into the entertainment industry without connections. Even just getting a book published is a long shot, let alone making any money off it.

I considered getting into writing but then I heard how little authors actually make on books that I gave up on it. Apparently some authors only make 25 cents per book sold, so unless you sell a million+ copies of something, you barely make any money.

The publisher gets all the money, and you get a measly 25 cents for each book that sells. To hell with that. :lol:

[Netkeeper]

The only reason I'm alive is because I'm seeking treatment for a medical condition I have.

Once I've received that treatment I don't know where I'm going to go. I've had it since I was born and it's always on my mind. There's almost never an instance where I'm not thinking about it, except maybe when I'm roleplaying. I use that as an escape from it because I can pretend to be someone that doesn't have it... and it works.

If I'm not RPing I'm in some sort of emotional anguish that I just don't speak up about or try to pretend isn't present. I'm pretty used to it.

[Commenter 42]

Seems like everyone here is suffering, in some way. Lot's of heartbreaking stuff.
Kind of a rough thread to read.

@Netkeeper - got a lump in my throat reading that post. Take care of you.

Be well everyone.

[Netkeeper]

@Netkeeper - got a lump in my throat reading that post. Take care of you.
After that post I went to fetch some wine and even though alcohol is a depressant it makes the discomfort go away so I'm feeling a bit better since typing that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

You live in a lousy area for TMNT toys. Or to be more precise, you live in an extremely low volume market for TMNT toys. Your store is getting the same assortments as all of the other stores, there just isn't enough of a market to sell through all of them very quickly. Spider Bytez and Casey are shipping in cases right now. Slash isn't, but he's likely to get rotating back into production before long. They are out there. Unfortunately you live in an area where finding them locally is tough. Just be glad you have the option of online ordering.

Great point. I'm in an equally crummy market by that logic.

Speaking of online ordering, i was notified by my Amazon vendor that they DID NOT have Mondo after buying it. :tmad:

Normally this would be a sad story, but another vendor had just uploaded stock for Mondo 15 bucks a pop. Bought it and I just got a shipment confirmation this morning.

Oy ve, why does my favorite TMNT character also need to the hardest to find new toy???

Out of curiosity how do you plan on doing that? It takes a lot of work to get into the entertainment industry without connections. Even just getting a book published is a long shot, let alone making any money off it.

I considered getting into writing but then I heard how little authors actually make on books that I gave up on it. Apparently some authors only make 25 cents per book sold, so unless you sell a million+ copies of something, you barely make any money.

The publisher gets all the money, and you get a measly 25 cents for each book that sells. To hell with that. :lol:


Haven't you heard of e-publishing? C'mon, man get with the times. You can publish it yourself through on-demand print services, and keep as mush as 75% of the price of every book sold, and even set your own cover price. And it's much easier to do than goung through a traditional publisher. A friend of mine has done just that, and is currently working on publicity for her ninth book in about five years.

[CyberCubed]

Haven't you heard of e-publishing? C'mon, man get with the times. You can publish it yourself through on-demand print services, and keep as mush as 75% of the price of every book sold, and even set your own cover price. And it's much easier to do than goung through a traditional publisher. A friend of mine has done just that, and is currently working on publicity for her ninth book in about five years.

And how much money does this make? I can't imagine e-books making more money than actual printed books in stores.

[Powder]

Jack sh*t, that's what.

[pennydreadful]

Apples and oranges, dude. Virginia Wade was pulling in about $30,000 per month at the height of her sales for one particular self-published novel (she was selling a rather... niche, er, "romance" novel series). Sure, you have to have a book that people want to buy and you need to do the work so that people know it exists, but it is possible to make a reasonable sum of money from self-publishing, and it allows you to call all of the shots creatively.

Let's face it, unless you're Stephen King, you're never going to make much money from writing - and if you do, it takes years to get it. Self-publishing is a different kind of animal altogether.

[Powder]

Without push & other resources, it's nothing. That's all I'm saying. I could publish a book by next week, doesn't mean it'd sell. :trazz: Truly independent content creators, the ones who sit at home & have little to call a fan-base let alone a team behind them, they're in for misery. & I ain't talkin' Stephen King.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As an author who has explored traditional publishing, it's impossible. You basically have to be lucky... a little research will show just how stacked the odds are against you even getting an agent to read a chapter of your story, much less take you on.

And without an agent? You're going nowhere or you're naively going along with a ripoff.

Self-publishing? Again, you have to be lucky or put a CRAP-TON of effort into the promoting. THE PROMOTING, not the writing. 1 in 100,000. It's not easy.

I've made a little money with my self-published novels, and it was completely by accident. I'll never be Stephen King or George R.R. Martin, but ya know what? F*** it. I write because it's in my blood and soul, not to get paid.

And as long as my self-publishing website binds and publishes the book for me, I don't really care. The only bookshelf in the world that matters is MINE, and guess what? It's got my books on my shelf. :tcool:

[CyberCubed]

That's the problem with the average joe, nobody knows your books exist. There have got to be thousands, maybe a million, books published every year. How on earth is a novel written by an unknown author going to compete with established writers and best sellers?

As you said, without promotion, its going to disappear into obscurity. Maybe you get lucky and about 10 people buy your book. What do you get out of that...$10 at the most?

[plastroncafe]

And if the average joe has it rough, imagine the average jane.

If you're writing to get rich...well, you're probably better off choosing a more lucrative profession. If you're writing because you love it? Then the money is just gravy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's the problem with the average joe, nobody knows your books exist. There have got to be thousands, maybe a million, books published every year. How on earth is a novel written by an unknown author going to compete with established writers and best sellers?

As you said, without promotion, its going to disappear into obscurity. Maybe you get lucky and about 10 people buy your book. What do you get out of that...$10 at the most?

If profit or no profit is the deciding factor in whether you'll write, then you're not really a writer at heart.

It's about creating something that is uniquely yours; hell, even procreating results in only 50% your own.

If you have to ask, you'll never understand. It's a trite statement, but this is one of those times it's true.

[CyberCubed]

Cylon, you said you have books published online, right? Do you have a link so I can see them out of curiosity? I mean I'm not going to buy anything (sorry ;) ), but I just want to see them to see how they are published and how they are viewed.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Cylon, you said you have books published online, right? Do you have a link so I can see them out of curiosity? I mean I'm not going to buy anything (sorry ;) ), but I just want to see them to see how they are published and how they are viewed.

Sure do, I'll send you a PM...

[Jephael]

If you're writing to get rich...well, you're probably better off choosing a more lucrative profession. If you're writing because you love it? Then the money is just gravy.

Can't it be both? And yea, I'm well aware of the odds my story might not reach audiences no matter what format it's in, and to be honest I'm more worried about someone ripping off my ideas and taking all the credit than how much money I may or may not make. But at the same time if you've got a great idea it's important to put yourself out there regardless

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Can't it be both? And yea, I'm well aware of the odds my story might not reach audiences no matter what format it's in, and to be honest I'm more worried about someone ripping off my ideas and taking all the credit than how much money I may or may not make. But at the same time if you've got a great idea it's important to put yourself out there regardless

Absolutely it's important you put yourself out there.

Just know that, unfortunately and realistically, you are a single drop in a very big ocean. You could get lucky... but if you need others' approval to fulfill you as an author, you're in for a world of hurt.

[pennydreadful]

I suppose success in self-publishing vs print publishing is also affected pretty heavily by which genre you're writing in -- the vast majority of self-published stuff I read is of romantic or paranormal sub-genres that are hard (if not impossible) to even find in bookstores. With stuff like that, there's kind of a built-in demand for it already in that they're stories people want to read, they're just not possible to find outside of ebook form.

Whereas if you're writing a murder mystery, you're probably going to have more competition. :lol:

Interesting topic for discussion though; I actually read Richard Laymon's "A Writer's Tale" last month, which was about his experiences with the publishing industry in both the US and the UK and yeah - I'm amazed anybody tries to write for a living at all, with the bullsh*t authors have to go through.

[CyberCubed]

You know you'd probably be more successful writing children's books, like the ones aimed at kids around 10-12 years old. That's where so many successful authors did like Goosebumps, the early Harry Potter books, etc. started from.

Go after the kid market. They eat up anything. All you got to do is throw in some stock hero characters, some female characters so you can attract the shipping crowd, the typical stock male rival whose at odds with the hero but has a good heart...then some evil villain...and there you get the next big kids series.

[Jephael]

You know you'd probably be more successful writing children's books, like the ones aimed at kids around 10-12 years old. That's where so many successful authors did like Goosebumps, the early Harry Potter books, etc. started from.

Wouldn't the Harry Potter audience be more considered somewhere around the teen/young adult demographic, or "tweens" as they're known?

[PangolinFeets]

If you expect to get anywhere in writing or art or any kind of competitive creative market you have to be just as good at selling yourself and networking as you are at your craft. If you sit at home publishing ebooks and drawing complaining about 'the lucky ones' you are taking yourself out of the equation before you get started.
Introduce yourself to people. Go to conventions. Attend events. Meet with publishing companies. If there's anything I've learned from the many different artists and writers that I know its that the ones who are putting their name out there are the ones getting somewhere.

Just make sure you don't stop writing. Always have a body of work to show.

[CyberCubed]

Introduce yourself to people. Go to conventions. Attend events. Meet with publishing companies. .

A lot of this is easier said than done. As said, you're just one drop of sand in the desert. New authors especially are going to be hard to notice even if you do this stuff.

Not all "events" or "conventions" are also free for anyone to stop by, not to mention this happens in all different states that you have to buy a plane ticket to fly down to.

[Powder]

I'm amazed anybody tries to write for a living at all, with the bullsh*t authors have to go through.

It's not just authors. All creative types, writers, artists, musicians, etc. are having their worlds fold inward nowadays with all the hoops you've gotta jump through to connect a work with the people.

[CyberCubed]

And that's exactly why I gave up my interest in getting into the entertainment industry in any form back in my early 20's. :lol:

Even if you get some stuff published, you barely make any money, and you still have to have a "real job" anyway to pay your bills. Just isn't worth it unless you get lucky and make it big.

[Powder]

There are ways to live off of your creative talent, it's just a matter of what you want out the experience. If it's recognition, you may not get it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Jack sh*t, that's what.


Tell HER that. She's making enough to nicely supplement her income, and that's for someone whose primary source of income is raising goats. And I was mistaken earlier- it's actually up to about 23 books total (plus about four anthologies with short stories she's written). I was a bit behind, apparently! She's gotten quite a bit more prolific since I last looked up her works. At somewhere between 50-75% of the average price of $3.99 for an e-copy or $7.99 for a print one, she's making better than Jack sh*t, that's for sure! (Granted, not all of them are available as print books, but that's not really a bad thing. E-books get a wider readership, because nothing has to be shipped, which keeps costs down, and they can be read anywhere.)


Apples and oranges, dude. Virginia Wade was pulling in about $30,000 per month at the height of her sales for one particular self-published novel (she was selling a rather... niche, er, "romance" novel series). Sure, you have to have a book that people want to buy and you need to do the work so that people know it exists, but it is possible to make a reasonable sum of money from self-publishing, and it allows you to call all of the shots creatively.

Let's face it, unless you're Stephen King, you're never going to make much money from writing- and if you do, it takes years to get it. Self-publishing is a different kind of animal altogether.


I dunno, $30,000 a month isn't exactly chump-change. But yes, you DO have to put in some effort, but it's a much better way to market and promote your work, and having control over everything from cover art to price-point is a big plus. I've been considering going that route myself. Just need to finish my fantasy novels and get the ball rolling.


Without push & other resources, it's nothing. That's all I'm saying. I could publish a book by next week, doesn't mean it'd sell. :trazz: Truly independent content creators, the ones who sit at home & have little to call a fan-base let alone a team behind them, they're in for misery. & I ain't talkin' Stephen King.


That's what social media and e-publishing is for. It's a vastly different market from the days when a writer had to rely on a publishing house to print, promote, and sell the book and hope it sells well enough to justify the costs. Now, you can have your book published on-line and promote it yourself via Facebook, Twitter, or whatever, and see sales almost immediately! And while one does have to put in the research and effort to find the right way to get it out there, it's a lot easier than it used to be. You no longer have to wait months to see any returns- now you can start seeing results in days, and it can be made available world-wide rather than just through local sellers.


As an author who has explored traditional publishing, it's impossible. You basically have to be lucky... a little research will show just how stacked the odds are against you even getting an agent to read a chapter of your story, much less take you on.

And without an agent? You're going nowhere or you're naively going along with a ripoff.

Self-publishing? Again, you have to be lucky or put a CRAP-TON of effort into the promoting. THE PROMOTING, not the writing. 1 in 100,000. It's not easy.

I've made a little money with my self-published novels, and it was completely by accident. I'll never be Stephen King or George R.R. Martin, but ya know what? F*** it. I write because it's in my blood and soul, not to get paid.

And as long as my self-publishing website binds and publishes the book for me, I don't really care. The only bookshelf in the world that matters is MINE, and guess what? It's got my books on my shelf. :tcool:


I agree with most of this, though I disagree with the part about needing an agent. That might still be true if you want to sell print copies to large chain book-stores, but there are plenty of local sellers and libraries that are only too happy to host signings to promote local authors and boost sales and readership. Add social media to that, and you can basically be your own agent these days. Services like Amazon are pretty good places to sell and promote your books, too, since people leave reviews that can boost sales, too.


That's the problem with the average joe, nobody knows your books exist. There have got to be thousands, maybe a million, books published every year. How on earth is a novel written by an unknown author going to compete with established writers and best sellers?

As you said, without promotion, its going to disappear into obscurity. Maybe you get lucky and about 10 people buy your book. What do you get out of that...$10 at the most?


You're thinking too small, Cubed. If you're confined to just selling locally through a traditional book-store, maybe that would be true, but we're talking about on-line sales that can sell e-copies anywhere in the world, in minutes. Or print copies on demand for those who want to buy a physical book. And with self-publishing, you get a larger portion of the sale, because there are fewer costs involved. (For instance, you're not paying an agent to push your book, as you're doing it yourself, not paying for the upkeep on a publishing house or a large volume of materials because they only print copies as they sell, and with e-books, there are no print costs to account for. That's just the start.) And as with anything, whether it gets known or not is all about promotion and exposure. There's word of mouth, too, but social media is a writer's best friend!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If you expect to get anywhere in writing or art or any kind of competitive creative market you have to be just as good at selling yourself and networking as you are at your craft. If you sit at home publishing ebooks and drawing complaining about 'the lucky ones' you are taking yourself out of the equation before you get started.
Introduce yourself to people. Go to conventions. Attend events. Meet with publishing companies. If there's anything I've learned from the many different artists and writers that I know its that the ones who are putting their name out there are the ones getting somewhere.

Just make sure you don't stop writing. Always have a body of work to show.

It's market demand, plain and simple. There is a glut of potential authors and artists all vying for a few publishing contracts. It's very easy to dismiss some statements as "complaints", but selling yourself and continually pushing your product is exhausting. It's an endurance run, and it takes money. SERIOUS money sometimes.

I gave it my all for a year, barely got anything written. Have nothing to show for it except experience. If you've done the same or are planning to commit to the same, great! I hope it turns out better for you.

For me, it all came down to: what do I want to spend my free time doing? Writing? Or selling my writing? I don't have the luxury of doing both.

[CyberCubed]

You're thinking too small, Cubed. If you're confined to just selling locally through a traditional book-store, maybe that would be true, but we're talking about on-line sales that can sell e-copies anywhere in the world, in minutes. Or print copies on demand for those who want to buy a physical book. And with self-publishing, you get a larger portion of the sale, because there are fewer costs involved. (For instance, you're not paying an agent to push your book, as you're doing it yourself, not paying for the upkeep on a publishing house or a large volume of materials because they only print copies as they sell, and with e-books, there are no print costs to account for. That's just the start.) And as with anything, whether it gets known or not is all about promotion and exposure. There's word of mouth, too, but social media is a writer's best friend!

How do you know anything will sell when you put it up? Even if you advertise it on social media sites, how many people are really going to buy a random e-book by some unknown author? The most you can do is probably get your friends and family to buy it, but I don't see many strangers just randomly coming across it and willing to give you a chance.

You're making it sound like this is some miracle website for aspiring authors. If you're a customer for example how would you even know the writing of a certain author is good or not to take a chance? Sounds like a one in a million shot of getting your work to sell good.

[pennydreadful]

I haven't got a creative bone in my body, but I get the impression that writing, drawing, making music - it's something that artists do at the end of the day because it's something they need to do, like breathing - they'd be doing it even if nobody else saw it or heard it.

Or, y'know, to quote Henry Rollins: "It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." I suppose when you put people who actually make something out of nothing in a room with a bunch of suits who look at everything purely from a "can I sell it and how much of a market is there going to be" standpoint, it's bound to be tough on the artist.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

How do you know anything will sell when you put it up? Even if you advertise it on social media sites, how many people are really going to buy a random e-book by some unknown author? The most you can do is probably get your friends and family to buy it, but I don't see many strangers just randomly coming across it and willing to give you a chance.

You're making it sound like this is some miracle website for aspiring authors. If you're a customer for example how would you even know the writing of a certain author is good or not to take a chance? Sounds like a one in a million shot of getting your work to sell good.


I dunno about a miracle, but it certainly has been good for my friend. The whole point of social media is sharing likes and interests, so it's already a built-in marketing tool. Facebook shows ads that cater to a person's interests already, so posting about your book in social groups you're a part of exposes it to your target audience quickly and with minimal risk. Seriously, Kindle even has its own self publishing app. And it's FREE. They have a newsletter that features new authors all the time, which is another way to get yourself noticed, along with blogs and writing forums. There are so many ways to advertise your work now that basically all you have to do is post in a few relevant places, and it practically sells itself. Reviews also go a ling way, and with the review options or "likes" on many social sites, you can get a wider audience than with just having your book sitting on a shelf in a store after publishing ever would.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I haven't got a creative bone in my body, but I get the impression that writing, drawing, making music - it's something that artists do at the end of the day because it's something they need to do, like breathing - they'd be doing it even if nobody else saw it or heard it.

Or, y'know, to quote Henry Rollins: "It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." I suppose when you put people who actually make something out of nothing in a room with a bunch of suits who look at everything purely from a "can I sell it and how much of a market is there going to be" standpoint, it's bound to be tough on the artist.

SHE gets it. I owe you a flask of bloodwine, Penny, m'dear.

[CyberCubed]

This sounds almost too good to be true. Where are the statistics from the people who got rich from selling their books online via this electronic e-stuff?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Cubed, no one is going to "get rich" by writing in today's market. But you CAN make a decent living at it if you work at it. But that's the part most people don't understand. Writing IS work. Even if you only do it part time, or because you love your craft, it's still WORK. It's hard, time-consuming, and can feel like a chore at times. And if you're only doing it to get rich- you're in the wrong business to begin with. Most true writers aren't in it for the money. They do it because, like penny said, they NEED to write almost as much as they need to breathe. They can't NOT write. Some just getvreally lucky and are able to live fairly well off of their work. But most will never be wealthy from it, simply because writing is NOT that kind of career to start with. Even guys like Poe, Dickens, and Shakespeare never got rich by writing, even though they are remembered long after they died. You have to be the writing equivalent of a rock star to get rich. Most are more like folk singers, making enough to supplement their income or perhaps to live on, but that's about it. Still, even that is nothing to sneeze at!

[CyberCubed]

I checked the site and you only make around $7 for each e-book sold, and less than $5 if its a printed book in stores. You would literally have to sell a thousand copies to make even just the slightest bit of money.

How can anyone really advertise their stuff to sell that much? Even selling just 50-100 copies is a pipe dream, let alone more than that. The person you're claiming makes $30,000 a month cannot just be some average person, she has to have had connections in the publishing industry or have a lot of money to spend on advertising, i.e. she's well off already.

[plastroncafe]

Some people live to write.
Others...apparently live to make money.

[CyberCubed]

Some people live to write.
Others...apparently live to make money.

The point is you obviously won't have much time to write if you still have a 8 hour job to go to every day. Not to mention if you also have kids or a family.

A 40 hour or more work week in your "real job" and then spend hours writing? That's kinda using up all your free time.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Some people live to write.
Others...apparently live to make money.

Apparently. Because what good is art if it doesn't affect your bottom line?

The point is you obviously won't have much time to write if you still have a 8 hour job to go to every day. Not to mention if you also have kids or a family.

A 40 hour or more work week in your "real job" and then spend hours writing? That's kinda using up all your free time.

In one weekend, you can produce 4-8 hours of excellent writing without being a social hermit or neglecting family. 1 hour a night on weekdays.

If you love something, you make it work. What do you use your free time for? (Besides lusting after Melissa B in Supergirl, of course.) :twink:

[plastroncafe]

The point is you obviously won't have much time to write if you still have a 8 hour job to go to every day. Not to mention if you also have kids or a family.

A 40 hour or more work week in your "real job" and then spend hours writing? That's kinda using up all your free time.

Really? Because it doesn't seem to stop me.
And I work three jobs.

[CyberCubed]

Really? Because it doesn't seem to stop me.
And I work three jobs.

Do you write during your jobs? This is not counting all other leisure activity like watching TV shows/movies/reading that would cut into writing time.

[plastroncafe]

Do you write during your jobs? This is not counting all other leisure activity like watching TV shows/movies/reading that would cut into writing time.

If I have time. Yes.
Like...I'm writing right now.
Sometimes I write while I'm watching tv.
Sometimes I write during my commute.

Sometimes I sacrifice sleep to write.

And those moments, when the words flow easily, are the moments I live for.
I don't even consider myself a writer, and I still get jazzed by those moments.

You're being willfully obtuse again, and it's not anywhere near as charming as you seem to think.

[CyberCubed]

Well that's the thing, I wouldn't be able to write at a job, on the bus, on the train, while watching TV, etc. I would need to sit in a quiet room on my computer writing.

I also imagine writing while watching something screws up your train of thought, since you lose track of what you're trying to write along with usual grammar errors, etc.

[plastroncafe]

There's a reason revision happens. Also why there are beta readers and editors.
They tend to catch things like...typos and grammatical missteps.

As for your personal relationship with writing...that's on you.

[CyberCubed]

Convincing someone to beta read your work is also difficult unless they're your online friend or someone whose known you for years. Most people aren't going to get someone to read a 100 page novel for free.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

The point is you obviously won't have much time to write if you still have a 8 hour job to go to every day. Not to mention if you also have kids or a family.

A 40 hour or more work week in your "real job" and then spend hours writing? That's kinda using up all your free time.

You've once again missed the point. Writing IS how we spend our "free time". It's something we do because we love it and WANT to do it, even though we may be also trying to make a go at making a living from it. It's not JUST work, it's a passion.

Apparently. Because what good is art if it doesn't affect your bottom line?

In one weekend, you can produce 4-8 hours of excellent writing without being a social hermit or neglecting family. 1 hour a night on weekdays.

If you love something, you make it work. What do you use your free time for? (Besides lusting after Melissa B in Supergirl, of course.) :twink:

He uses it to hunt down hentai lollicon harem anime, apparently.

Well that's the thing, I wouldn't be able to write at a job, on the bus, on the train, while watching TV, etc. I would need to sit in a quiet room on my computer writing.

I also imagine writing while watching something screws up your train of thought, since you lose track of what you're trying to write along with usual grammar errors, etc.

Most of us find time to write just about anywhere. I often write during my breaks at work, or in the evenings at home, or when I'm in a car for long periods. It just takes some focus.

[pennydreadful]

SHE gets it. I owe you a flask of bloodwine, Penny, m'dear.

The tender meat of a newborn babe will suffice. :evilgrin:

The person you're claiming makes $30,000 a month cannot just be some average person, she has to have had connections in the publishing industry or have a lot of money to spend on advertising, i.e. she's well off already.

Nope. Google the author's name and add "Bigfoot" onto the end of your search query; you'll discover within about 30 seconds that the author had never been published before and was an average housewife - I'm not linking to the articles here because some of the book titles mentioned in the article aren't kiddy-friendly.*

* I may or may not also want CC to Google this because I'm a terrible person, and furthermore, I take no responsibility for any brain-scarring that may occur in the process. :lol:

Seriously though, making time for writing is like making time for anything; people are able to make time for TMNT, exercise, socialising, hobbies etc outside of work -- why should writing be any different? You have a set amount of hours in your day and you prioritise what you're going to spend them on. For you, it's TMNT. For others, it's writing.

Anyway, this is beginning to get boring sooooo... I'm gonna go eat some watermelon now. :tpizza:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Penny, I'm willing to bet you'd also like the mythological and zombie romances by a certain goatherder I know.... And some LGBT ones too!

[CyberCubed]

MsMarvel I notice you have a fanfiction.net account, so out of curiosity why post your stories up on a site for free when you can be making money off them by self-publishing as you said? Now obviously you can't do anything with fics based on established properities like TMNT, Batman, Marvel, etc...but any fanfic with original characters is fair game.

I mean every writer on fanfiction.net would be trying to get their original fanfic ideas published on e-books, but they choose not to. Why?

[Splint'r]

Ok...This isn't much about writing...but years back, someone sang the same exact tunes in my ears about me being successful in some form of art. In my case, drawing pictures. (btw this is for you Jephael)
People were trying to convince me that I was going to set myself up for major disillusionment. They heard my lofty ideas and rolled their eyes. They would press their logistics on me almost as if they were trying to protect me from meeting the devil himself. But all I ever heard was:

"don't bother doing it because it didn't work for me."

"forget about it because you will cave to pressure...because I did and I'm super strong." You know...something like that.

At some point, I snapped and never again mentioned about what I wanted to do and just went out and did it.
You want to make it big? Pain is a part of the deal. You will feel it, you will sleep with it and it will wake you up every morning. But as long as you actually believe in what you're pursuing and I mean believe with all your heart and soul... that alone will give you the damn strength you'll need to get you through that tunnel of hurt. Now... it may be that you may never reach a certain lofty goal you set out for yourself, but in pursuing the stars above, you may more than likely end up in a much better situation than where you are right now, just talking about it. Some may tell you "or worst?" but to that I say, it's much worse to go through my life and wonder what could have been if I just kept pushing rather than quit at the sight of fear and never know for sure.

I really wish I could share my entire experience breaking into this wacky field, but it would take too much space and what I really want to say is that my perseverance got me somewhere better than where I began. I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't given it my all. No, I'm not up in the stars yet, but with the realities involved, I couldn't be prouder of my accomplishments, though I don't actually allow myself to stop and sing about it because there is still so much to do. But I'm now one of the few fortunate ones that can say I make a decent living working in my specific field.

A lot of blood sweat and tears. (maybe not the blood but definitely heavy on the tears). Don't give up your dreams. Just because it didn't work for some, doesn't mean it wont work for you. Just because the odds look heavily against you, doesn't mean they really are...if you get what I mean. ;)
If you really want it and I mean really want it, go out and get it. GET IT. Copyright your written material and set sail. You may end up big and writing for TV series and such. Never know until you try. Don't forget to leave a welcome matt for the pain. It's there to help make you stronger.


PS. I live for my family. lol. Sorry OP. That's just the bottom line for me. I already woke up many nights to pursue my career. That's what I lived for prior to my family. ;)

[MsMarvelDuckie]

MsMarvel I notice you have a fanfiction.net account, so out of curiosity why post your stories up on a site for free when you can be making money off them by self-publishing as you said? Now obviously you can't do anything with fics based on established properities like TMNT, Batman, Marvel, etc...but any fanfic with original characters is fair game.

I mean every writer on fanfiction.net would be trying to get their original fanfic ideas published on e-books, but they choose not to. Why?


There's a difference between fan-fics and original fiction, though, Cubed. Fan-fics by definition are based on existing properties. Since I don't own the properties in question, nor have permission from the owners, I legally CAN'T publish any of those works on FF, unless I want to try submitting story ideas to the owners of the properties I've posted works for there. As for my original works- none of them are completed yet. But if they were, I'd probably have something published as an e-book already. All those stories on FF.net are fan-fics, so the people there can't make any money off of them. But that's not the point of doing fan-fics, anyway. We write those because we love the characters, not because we care about making any money from them.

That said, I want to explain why I write fan-fics in the first place. Writing in an established world is like taking a trip to visit old friends in your home town. You are already familiar with the people and places you visit, because you know them and have been there before. You can explore the world at leisure, because you know where you're going, and what you will probably find there. You may meet a new person or two(OC's), but most of them are already your friends. It's like coming home after a long time away, and you have friendly faces to guide you. You know their voices; when they talk, you can hear their voices because you've heard them many times before. You know their interests, likes and dislikes, their favorite foods, what they do during free time.... That's what fan-fics are. Old friends you may not have seen for a while, but you KNOW them.

Original works, on the other hand, are like exploring a new city in a country where you aren't even fluent in the language. Everything is new. You're a pioneer blazing a trail into new and unknown territory, where you don't know anyone, and you can easily get lost or confused trying to blunder your way around to learn the lay of the land. Every face you meet is a stranger you have to get to know from scratch, every street is a new place you have to learn your way around, and you are completely alone. No one is there to show you the way, or introduce you to all the people in the neighborhood. You have to poke around and find them all yourself, often without knowing who they are or where you are even going. You don't know what they like, what their goals are, or what they are afraid of yet. You have to learn those things along the way, all the while running into dead-ends, hostile faces, and obstacles you didn't expect to be there. The story is unrevealed, so even if you grow to be close with some of the characters, bad things may happen to them and then when they die, that's IT. You can't bring them back, because once they are gone, the story has moved on without them. That's what original stories are like. A trip into unexplored territory, without a trusted guide to make it easier. By contrast, in a fan-fic, even if you kill off a character, you know they are still part of the property you were working from, so they can always come back in other stories. They aren't really "dead"- except in YOUR story. They still live on elsewhere, so it's okay. But if you kill off an original character in your OWN world, they're gone for good. Every world, once written, is a world set in stone. Changes we make in our own worlds are permanent. Fan-fics give us a chance to see another person's world through our own eyes, but we know that in the "real" version, nothing has changed. What we do there doesn't affect what's already there.

I enjoy doing both, but fan-fics are easier and comfortable compared to creating everything from the ground up, because most of the ground work is already done. The characters have their voices and personalities already, all you have to do is have them say hello to the audience, so to speak. I guess it's just fun to take people the audience already knows, and show them your own spin, maybe introduce a new face or two, and show them parts of that world they may not have seen before. Basically, in fan-fics, the characters themselves are the guides, where in original work, YOU have to be the guide, when you barely know the world and its inhabitants yourself. As fun as it can be to explore a new and undiscovered world for yourself, sometimes the comforting presence of old friends you've met before is more appealing.

Bottom line, I'd write whether anyone else ever reads it or not, but fan-fics already have a built-in fan-base, which can make it much easier to introduce readers to your style, your "voice" as a writer, and your ideas. But I love doing both, because telling stories is just what I do, whether they are about my own worlds, or a shared-world sandbox someone else created first. I just get to play in it. Sometimes that has its own appeal. :tcool:

[Prowler]

The point is you obviously won't have much time to write if you still have a 8 hour job to go to every day. Not to mention if you also have kids or a family.

A 40 hour or more work week in your "real job" and then spend hours writing? That's kinda using up all your free time.
What if said person enjoys writing? It could be their hobby. For some people, playing games and watching tv during the weekend and holidays also seems like a waste of time.

Writing doesn't seem that hard to find time for, since you can do it anywhere. Unlike, let's say, playing sports.