Would you like to see Raphael as the wise guy again in a future incarnation?

[Prowler]

As we all know, Raphael has usually been the angry one and the lone wolf of the family. But in the Fred Wolf series, he was a pretty different character. He was the funny guy of the group. But ever since, Michelangelo has been filling the role of the funny guy. And he was quite cringeworthy in the 2k3 series.

I really like FW Raphael. And I admit it that when I heard Paulsen was gonna do voice acting for the Nick toon, I kinda hoped he'd voice Raphael again in an attempt to re-create the wise guy Raphael.

I speak for myself, but I really don't care about the rivalry between Raphael and Leonardo. Nor do I care much about Raphael's anger. Maybe it's because I'm not a teenager anymore, I dunno.

I personally prefer Raphael as the wise guy and Michelangelo as the chill and mellow dude. Hyper Michelangelo is quite annoying.

[ABrown]

If handled properly, I could absolutely get behind Raphael as the wise guy once again.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

OH HELL NO. No way.

[Prowler]

OH HELL NO. No way.
Man, why such an emotional reaction? Not a fan of his jokes in the FW series? :P

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.

[Prowler]

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.
I personally liked how he was written in the season 9 episode "Split-Second". Rob Paulsen can sound angry too when he needs to.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I remember a few scenes from earlier episodes where he did the same thing, or where he cam off as very threatening, though I don't recall that particular episode. The line "or else I'm gonna' have to get- sarcastic" when he was trying to scare someone into cooperating comes to mind. I don't recall what episode it was, but it just sounded so "angry Raph", that I absolutely LOVED it!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Man, why such an emotional reaction? Not a fan of his jokes in the FW series? :P

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.

I personally liked how he was written in the season 9 episode "Split-Second". Rob Paulsen can sound angry too when he needs to.

I don't trust many writers/producers to give Raph sarcastic/witty character traits without making him too much like Mikey. Will Mikey just become the dumb one?

Honestly, I feel like Raphael has ALWAYS been sarcastic and witty while being the "angry one." He's always making snide observations, whether about Mikey, his opponent, or what. But a return to the Fred Wolf "characterizations..." No way. Fred Wolf certainly made TMNT a viable brand, but at the cost of pretty much ALL meaningful characterization for all four Turtles. I want to get away from one-note characterizations (leader, smart, angry, funny) as much as possible.

Yes, it was a kneejerk reaction on my part. But I'm tired of people (read: Michael Bay) going back to Fred Wolf and doing just as half-assed and as lazy a job as they did back then.

[CyberCubed]

I feel like Nick's Raphael is already kind of like this. A nice mix between original cartoon Raph and every other Raph.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Don't you think that's a bit too harsh of an assessment, though? There were plenty of episodes of the OT where they explored the turtles' personalities beyond "the leader, smart, rude, funny one" tropes. Mikey got several good eps for himself, showcasing other parts of his character- notably The Gang's all Here (I don't care what anyone else says, it was a GOOD episode, story-wise for Mikey!), Poor Little Rich Turtle, Mondo Gecko, What's Michelangelo Good For, Michelangelo's Birthday, and that's just at the top of my head. Raph also got some good ones- Raphael Meet's His Match (and not just because of Mona Lisa!), Raphael- Turtle of a Thousand Faces, Raphael Drives Em Wild, and others.

Even Donnie got a few, like Donatello's Badd Day, Donatello's Degree, Night of the Dark Turtle (which showed just how dangerous the "smart guy" can be!), and Donatello's Duplicate, all expanded past his "smart" traits. And of course there were eps like Take Me to Your Leader, Leonardo Lightens Up, The Three Musketurtles, and Leonardo Vs. Tempestra, or even Beware the Lotus Blossom or Farewell, Lotus Blossom. We even see something of his fears in Snakes Alive!

And a few episodes did it for all four, like Green With Envy, Turtles On Trial, The Missing Map, and The Legend of Koji. So there's far more to them than those singular traits, even in the OT, it's just that it rarely gets brought up in discussions because all anyone remembers is "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines; Raphael is cool but crude, Michelangelo is a party dude".

[Prowler]

Don't you think that's a bit too harsh of an assessment, though? There were plenty of episodes of the OT where they explored the turtles' personalities beyond "the leader, smart, rude, funny one" tropes. Mikey got several good eps for himself, showcasing other parts of his character- notably The Gang's all Here (I don't care what anyone else says, it was a GOOD episode, story-wise for Mikey!), Poor Little Rich Turtle, Mondo Gecko, What's Michelangelo Good For, Michelangelo's Birthday, and that's just at the top of my head. Raph also got some good ones- Raphael Meet's His Match (and not just because of Mona Lisa!), Raphael- Turtle of a Thousand Faces, Raphael Drives Em Wild, and others.

Even Donnie got a few, like Donatello's Badd Day, Donatello's Degree, Night of the Dark Turtle (which showed just how dangerous the "smart guy" can be!), and Donatello's Duplicate, all expanded past his "smart" traits. And of course there were eps like Take Me to Your Leader, Leonardo Lightens Up, The Three Musketurtles, and Leonardo Vs. Tempestra, or even Beware the Lotus Blossom or Farewell, Lotus Blossom. We even see something of his fears in Snakes Alive!

And a few episodes did it for all four, like Green With Envy, Turtles On Trial, The Missing Map, and The Legend of Koji. So there's far more to them than those singular traits, even in the OT, it's just that it rarely gets brought up in discussions because all anyone remembers is "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines; Raphael is cool but crude, Michelangelo is a party dude".
The reason I loved FW Donatello so much was because he wasn't only a sci-fi genius nerdy guy, but also sort of like the second in command to Leonardo. And he could also get angry occasionally.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Agreed. One of the reasons that Donnie and Mikey became my two favorites on that show (and in subsequent versions) is that they've always felt more well-rounded than the other two, character-wise. In particular, they seemed to get the most development outside of their normal traits in the OT, by giving them both plenty of side-story episodes. Leonardo did to a slightly lesser degree, and for some reason, Raph had the fewest, but since he was always the big "stand-out" character, who had the most one-liners, perhaps they didn't think he needed it as much.

[Prowler]

Agreed. One of the reasons that Donnie and Mikey became my two favorites on that show (and in subsequent versions) is that they've always felt more well-rounded than the other two, character-wise. In particular, they seemed to get the most development outside of their normal traits in the OT, by giving them both plenty of side-story episodes. Leonardo did to a slightly lesser degree, and for some reason, Raph had the fewest, but since he was always the big "stand-out" character, who had the most one-liners, perhaps they didn't think he needed it as much.
Leonardo was pretty flat and boring in the FW series. I mean he was fine in the first season and even in the 2nd season, but after that, bah.

I liked how Raphael was calm as hell and sometimes would even show fear. Also how he didn't give much of a damn and was lazy. "Oh do we have to?" :lol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I don't consider Leo boring or bland, actually. He had a fear of snakes, became obsessive over a video game, was crushing on Irma along with Raph and Mikey, and had doubts about his leadership- much like in every other version. He even waxed nostalgic over medieval Japan, and fell "in love" with Lotus! He had a lot of development over the years, but most of it was rather subtle. I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.

[Prowler]

I don't consider Leo boring or bland, actually. He had a fear of snakes, became obsessive over a video game, was crushing on Irma along with Raph and Mikey, and had doubts about his leadership- much like in every other version. He even waxed nostalgic over medieval Japan, and fell "in love" with Lotus! He had a lot of development over the years, but most of it was rather subtle. I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.
He did sound quite whining, though. And the show being a comedy, he just seemed boring with rarely telling jokes.

I don't think any of the turtles acted much like teenagers in that version save maybe for Michelangelo. And a a fairly old teen(18-19).

[IndigoErth]

I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.
*nod* The kind of teen who's not beyond goofing off, but has the good sense to know when enough's enough or it's just not the time for it.



Agree on "why not both" where Raph is concerned. Nick does seem to have somewhat done that and I do kinda like that they've made him a bit of a snarky little bugger. He can rub me the wrong way at times, depending on version, but I do personally enjoy the headbutting nature between he and Leo, in Nick and otherwise. :trazz: That's like some of the heart of siblinghood right there, but even if they're mad their pushing makes each other the better for it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

He did sound quite whining, though. And the show being a comedy, he just seemed boring with rarely telling jokes.

I don't think any of the turtles acted much like teenagers in that version save maybe for Michelangelo. And a a fairly old teen(18-19).


The "whiney" bit could just be Cam's voice, which admittedly sounds that way a bit at higher ranges. As for rarely telling jokes- of course he didn't- he was the straight man! (Except in Leonardo Lightens Up, where he became obnoxiously goofy and immature. But he had his moments even in the more serious episodes. One of my favorites was in the one with the Crooked Ninja Turtle gang. He showed he could be both serious and playful in that one!)

I think they all acted more like teens in the OT than most give them credit for. Older teens, perhaps- or maybe just teens who had more on their minds than just schoolwork, dating, and being popular.... Dealing with ninja psychopaths and evil alien warlords will do that to you, or so I hear, LOL!!


*nod* The kind of teen who's not beyond goofing off, but has the good sense to know when enough's enough or it's just not the time for it.

Agree on "why not both" where Raph is concerned. Nick does seem to have somewhat done that and I do kinda like that they've made him a bit of a snarky little bugger. He can rub me the wrong way at times, depending on version, but I do personally enjoy the headbutting nature between he and Leo, in Nick and otherwise. :trazz: That's like some of the heart of siblinghood right there, but even if they're mad their pushing makes each other the better for it.


Yeah, I kind of like how Nick has tried to balance the two, and his snarky side definitely makes me think of the OT version a bit. I like that they've been able to give him a nice mix.

[ssjup81]

I like Nick Raph. He's a bit of a snarky, sarcastic type...then again my bias is showing. This is my fav incarnation of Raph. lol I feel the Nick version found a nice balance for his personality, which I absolutely love.

[MikeandRaph87]

You need to add a poll to this thread!

Eob Paulsen is Raphael for me which makes the 2012 Don difficult to hear. That being said why not be a hothead and scarcastic?

[Bombshell]

Split Second was a good episode for Raphael.

I agree that cynicism and sarcasm are just part of the whole anger condition. There are different types of sarcasm (Mike is good at the more lighthearted type) and Raph's dry (and sometimes condescending) variety fits the bill for his character's attitude.

I think Fred Wolf's brand was a bit too lighthearted for his true character but they did give him an attitude adjustment for the younger targeted audiences. He was particularly good at throwing school yard insults, which none of the others took part in. Well, they did just not as often.

Do I want to see another incredibly lighthearted Raphael? No, not particularly. I think he's always been sarcastic though, sometimes the anger is written so visibly its hard to focus on anything else.

[Werecat]

Why can't Raphael's character be a mixture of 1987 Raph and Original Raph. A Raph who cracks wise guy jokes and insults then snaps and starts to go on a berserker rampage every now and then. Especially when it came to fighting and killing. Original Raph did have a disturbingly evil within himself, ya know the constant thoughts of murdering peeps even in training sessions, he is sucha cute wittle bloodthirsty beast.

[ssjup81]

Split Second was a good episode for Raphael.

I agree that cynicism and sarcasm are just part of the whole anger condition. There are different types of sarcasm (Mike is good at the more lighthearted type) and Raph's dry (and sometimes condescending) variety fits the bill for his character's attitude.

I think Fred Wolf's brand was a bit too lighthearted for his true character but they did give him an attitude adjustment for the younger targeted audiences. He was particularly good at throwing school yard insults, which none of the others took part in. Well, they did just not as often.

Do I want to see another incredibly lighthearted Raphael? No, not particularly. I think he's always been sarcastic though, sometimes the anger is written so visibly its hard to focus on anything else.There's the episode Mr. Nice Guy, where the other three were pretty much saying he had a nasty attitude and he seemed to be the least patient of the four. There's that ep with that alien kid. The kid was prone to have tantrums and even blew up a tank (yeah...those guys had to have died ><). He was upset saying that everyone hated him. Michelangelo, being the calm one was saying, "No, we don't hate you." or something like that. Raphael was like, "Wait, I hate him." or something like that. He had no patience for the kid at all. There's also his shrieked "SHUT UP" to Donatello in Son of the Fly (I think). Whole ep he wanted to destroy stuff or do things that would harm other people's property. Last part, he told Donatello to shut up and destroyed the computer anyway.

So yeah, it was there. Now Archie Raph was cynical and sarcastic to the point where it...ruined his relationship with Ninjara[.

[Slade]

As for as the way the question is worded, no, I don't want to see him as the wise guy again. I'd rather Raph be an angry sarcastic prick.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Why can't Raphael's character be a mixture of 1987 Raph and Original Raph. A Raph who cracks wise guy jokes and insults then snaps and starts to go on a berserker rampage every now and then. Especially when it came to fighting and killing. Original Raph did have a disturbingly evil within himself, ya know the constant thoughts of murdering peeps even in training sessions, he is sucha cute wittle bloodthirsty beast.

Because I feel that we need to get away from the FW version as much as possible. It was a good show back then but also changed the turtles way too much than they needed to be. While I like FW Raphael, I don't want to see another attempt. I don't trust today's writers to not have a field day with the funny turtles since they can't even write Mikey right. Plus Raphael is already sarcastic while being angry. What next? Wolverine starts becoming a comedian?

"Michelangelo, leave the jokes to the professionals!". No Raphael, YOU leave the jokes to Michelangelo.

(I wish I knew which episode that line came from).

[Yabuturtle]

Because I feel that we need to get away from the FW version as much as possible. It was a good show back then but also changed the turtles way too much than they needed to be. While I like FW Raphael, I don't want to see another attempt. I don't trust today's writers to not have a field day with the funny turtles since they can't even write Mikey right. Plus Raphael is already sarcastic while being angry. What next? Wolverine starts becoming a comedian?

"Michelangelo, leave the jokes to the professionals!". No Raphael, YOU leave the jokes to Michelangelo.

(I wish I knew which episode that line came from).

That line was from the episode "Split Second".

I always thought the movie version was like a blend between the FW cartoon and the Mirage version. It is kind of odd having two main characters being comedic relief. I feel the comedic relief should be Mikey.

[Bombshell]

There's the episode Mr. Nice Guy, where the other three were pretty much saying he had a nasty attitude and he seemed to be the least patient of the four. There's that ep with that alien kid. The kid was prone to have tantrums and even blew up a tank (yeah...those guys had to have died ><). He was upset saying that everyone hated him. Michelangelo, being the calm one was saying, "No, we don't hate you." or something like that. Raphael was like, "Wait, I hate him." or something like that. He had no patience for the kid at all. There's also his shrieked "SHUT UP" to Donatello in Son of the Fly (I think). Whole ep he wanted to destroy stuff or do things that would harm other people's property. Last part, he told Donatello to shut up and destroyed the computer anyway.

So yeah, it was there. Now Archie Raph was cynical and sarcastic to the point where it...ruined his relationship with Ninjara[.


:lol: I love 80's cartoons

[Bombshell]

Because I feel that we need to get away from the FW version as much as possible. It was a good show back then but also changed the turtles way too much than they needed to be. While I like FW Raphael, I don't want to see another attempt. I don't trust today's writers to not have a field day with the funny turtles since they can't even write Mikey right. Plus Raphael is already sarcastic while being angry. What next? Wolverine starts becoming a comedian?

"Michelangelo, leave the jokes to the professionals!". No Raphael, YOU leave the jokes to Michelangelo.

(I wish I knew which episode that line came from).

I thought this kind of fit him in a way. He was being condescending and basically telling Mike he was lame and to shut up. But regardless, I agree with you.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I thought this kind of fit him in a way. He was being condescending and basically telling Mike he was lame and to shut up. But regardless, I agree with you.

True. Which begs the question if people even saw Mikey as comic relief in the 87 cartoon compared to Raph.

[Prowler]

True. Which begs the question if people even saw Mikey as comic relief in the 87 cartoon compared to Raph.
Michelangelo occasionally told jokes in the OT, but no one ever saw him as the funny guy, but as the party loving, pizza-eating and surfer lingo dude. He wasn't an arrogant chicken like 2003 Michelangelo was. And he also didn't try to drop cringeworthy jokes all the damn time. 87 Mike was just a chill dude who wanted to have fun. Donatello told jokes occasionally too, and no one saw him as the funny guy either.

I personally like Raphael would always throw jabs at Michelangelo and he'd just get slightly annoyed or brush it off.

[MikeandRaph87]

The only lack of intelligrnce joke thrown Mike's way was in Teenagers From Dimension X when they and the Neutrinos were temporary captives. Raph said Mike does not have anything to lose since he doesnt have a brain or something to that effect. Mike had a tendacy to me the most often captured and also guilible as seen in The Gang's All Here and Nightmare In The Sewers. Its based on his carefree and funloving personality. Was he funny? Yes, but more so a fun character. Raph was more of the funny guy by his wit and love of jokes. I miss that in Raph. Nick has shown hints of ut, but not enough.Its a good part of why I love Raph.

[ssjup81]

:lol: I love 80's cartoons:lol:


Qar3oBnz9_8

I made this clip a few years ago.

[Bombshell]

:lol:


Qar3oBnz9_8

I made this clip a few years ago.

Lmao! Raph has HAD IT.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Michelangelo occasionally told jokes in the OT, but no one ever saw him as the funny guy, but as the party loving, pizza-eating and surfer lingo dude. He wasn't an arrogant chicken like 2003 Michelangelo was. And he also didn't try to drop cringeworthy jokes all the damn time. 87 Mike was just a chill dude who wanted to have fun. Donatello told jokes occasionally too, and no one saw him as the funny guy either.

I personally like Raphael would always throw jabs at Michelangelo and he'd just get slightly annoyed or brush it off.


Actually, he was a bit of both. Keep in mind, ALL the turtles cracked the occasional joke or two in that series, even Leonardo. Most of the snarky stuff came from Raph, of course, but Mike, Don, and Leo all had their own brand of humor, too. In Mikey's case, it was more ironic humor. As for 2K3 Mikey, he was sometimes made out to be a chicken or arrogant, but that was mostly in just a very few episodes, and given his well-known love of horror and his Battle Nexus win, those were actually justified to some degree.


The only lack of intelligrnce joke thrown Mike's way was in Teenagers From Dimension X when they and the Neutrinos were temporary captives. Raph said Mike does not have anything to lose since he doesnt have a brain or something to that effect. Mike had a tendacy to me the most often captured and also guilible as seen in The Gang's All Here and Nightmare In The Sewers. Its based on his carefree and funloving personality. Was he funny? Yes, but more so a fun character. Raph was more of the funny guy by his wit and love of jokes. I miss that in Raph. Nick has shown hints of ut, but not enough.Its a good part of why I love Raph.


How was he gullible in those episodes? He was pretty savvy even as a human, and recognized April right away even in her disguise. Mikey was also the one who helped April against the gang, and he was never captured in it- he simply got "caught" (in the "red-handed" sense regarding the cookies) by Rocksteady when he involuntarily turned human while fighting him. In fact, since the other turtles arrived right after that, and April had gotten away from the gang and Rocksteady and Bebop with just Mikey's help, it's possible they wouldn't have even needed the other turtles to rescue them.

[turtlefanforever]

why not? i wouldn't mind it. Everything else would have to be done right though

[CyberCubed]

I love how people ignore the fact that Nick's Raphael is already a mix between wise guy Raph and hot-head Raph. He's the perfect balance.

[ssjup81]

I love how people ignore the fact that Nick's Raphael is already a mix between wise guy Raph and hot-head Raph. He's the perfect balance.*points to my first post in this thread* That's why he's my favorite incarnation of Raph. He's snarky and sarcastic and can be a hothead as well. Nick has a good balance, imo.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I love how people ignore the fact that Nick's Raphael is already a mix between wise guy Raph and hot-head Raph. He's the perfect balance.

You're also the person that said that this version of the turtles are nothing like the OT ones. Bare in mind, this Raph's style of humor is much different from OT Raph's.

[Metropoliskid41]

I think Raph should always be the sarcastic one. I think having a temper, being strong, and being sarcastic & critical of others is a group of personality characteristics that go together.

He is pretty sarcastic and has some great one-liners in the Mirage comics.

Did that get taken too far in the OT? Maybe. But with the tone and direction of the show, violent angry outbursts were kind of off limits, so you had to make the sarcastic aspect of his personality package more of the focal point when you're taking away the angry aspect. I think a good balance is the way to go.

[Yabuturtle]

I always thought Raph was a little sarcastic even in the original. He's just more so in the cartoon and less angry. I think the first time we see a real blend of this was in the original movie, which to me, was basically the original comic version and FW cartoon rolled into one.