If the Red Sky style came first.

[Yabuturtle]

Do you think the FW TMNT cartoon would be still just as popular or even more popular if the TMNT had the Red Sky style to it.? I mean if you saw the Turtles fought Shredder and Krang, Leatherhead, Slash, Rat King and all of those other villains before except with the seriousness of the Red Sky seasons, do you think it would have been more memorable and be more popular?

I think it would have been unique to see in the 80s. kids cartoons didn't REALLY start getting serious until the early 90s so it would have stood out more.

[Metropoliskid41]

You say that "Kids cartoon didn't really start getting serious until the 90's," but I beg to differ, I think for the most part the 1980's Cartoons had a more serious factor to them than most of the 90's toons that saw the rise of the slap-stick Villain. I would think that a case could be made that the slapstick tone of the OT may have been what caused that shift to the more goofy villain in action cartoons. I would say Gargoyles and Red Sky era of Turtles being "serious" are more of the exception, not rule.

In the 1980's you had pretty competent downright creepy villains. the Transformers movie killed off several main characters, including THEE MAIN CHARACTER in Optimus Prime, I'm not sure what 90's cartoon could make the same claim. There's a pretty high bodycount of heroic main characters in that movie. GI JOE had likewise planned to follow suit and kill off Duke until the parent outcry from the TF Movie caused Hasbro/Marvel/Sunbow to revise their conclusion and save Duke. The first season of the OT from the 80's was also the most serious of the Turtles seasons until the Red Sky shift.

I think the Original Toon serves as plenty popular and more memorable, I would say that the bulk of public consciousness of the TMNT still stems from the OT. While the Turtles remain popular today and hopefully always will, I don't ever see their popularity eclipsing what it was when "Turtle-Mania" hit in the early 90's. The Turtles were everywhere and I would say that main reason for that popularity was the OT, which at that time was in its silly phase. It's hard to say if it really could have been more popular with a more serious tone when it was already at the zenith of popularity.

I honestly think instead, the Red Sky change coming when it did probably kept fans longer. Kids latched onto the show in the silly phase, became enthralled with the property, and as they aged and looked for something maybe a little more serious, the series shifted and got a bit more serious, thus holding their interest. The series essentially "grew-up" or matured with its audience, at least it did with me.

[ABrown]

When the original cartoon first came out, I wasn't the least bit interested. It was the first movie that made me a TMNT fan. I only started enjoying the original cartoon afterwards. Had the Red Sky era come out first, it likely would've been the other way around.

[Yabuturtle]

You say that "Kids cartoon didn't really start getting serious until the 90's," but I beg to differ, I think for the most part the 1980's Cartoons had a more serious factor to them than most of the 90's toons that saw the rise of the slap-stick Villain. I would think that a case could be made that the slapstick tone of the OT may have been what caused that shift to the more goofy villain in action cartoons. I would say Gargoyles and Red Sky era of Turtles being "serious" are more of the exception, not rule.

In the 1980's you had pretty competent downright creepy villains. the Transformers movie killed off several main characters, including THEE MAIN CHARACTER in Optimus Prime, I'm not sure what 90's cartoon could make the same claim. There's a pretty high bodycount of heroic main characters in that movie. GI JOE had likewise planned to follow suit and kill off Duke until the parent outcry from the TF Movie caused Hasbro/Marvel/Sunbow to revise their conclusion and save Duke. The first season of the OT from the 80's was also the most serious of the Turtles seasons until the Red Sky shift.

I think the Original Toon serves as plenty popular and more memorable, I would say that the bulk of public consciousness of the TMNT still stems from the OT. While the Turtles remain popular today and hopefully always will, I don't ever see their popularity eclipsing what it was when "Turtle-Mania" hit in the early 90's. The Turtles were everywhere and I would say that main reason for that popularity was the OT, which at that time was in its silly phase. It's hard to say if it really could have been more popular with a more serious tone when it was already at the zenith of popularity.

I honestly think instead, the Red Sky change coming when it did probably kept fans longer. Kids latched onto the show in the silly phase, became enthralled with the property, and as they aged and looked for something maybe a little more serious, the series shifted and got a bit more serious, thus holding their interest. The series essentially "grew-up" or matured with its audience, at least it did with me.

I'm not saying it first started in the 90s. They did get more serious in the 80s, but really it didn't start taking off until the 90s. 80s still had quite a few silly fun cartoons but it wasn't until the 90s that they introduced things that were not only more serious and action packed, but darker, such as Batman, Gargoyles, X-Men, Batman Beyond ect.

I'd imagine the first 5 episodes but with more of a Red Sky feel. It sort of did when the moments were more serious but still had a few goofy moments. I believe if it was more serious it could have been just as or even more popular. Shredder and Krang would have been more competent for sure.

[Wesley]

No, I don't think the OT would have been more popular if it had the Red Sky style at the start of its run. In my opinion, the reason the cartoon became popular in the first place was because it didn't take itself too seriously. I would have preferred if the show had kept the tone of the first season, though, as that season had a good mix of comedy and action.

[Icebot]

It would probably be as popular as the 4kids cartoon.

[ABrown]

It would probably be as popular as the 4kids cartoon.

Are you saying that the 4Kids series wasn't popular? Because the 4Kids series did very well and was very popular. I don't think it ever reached the popularity of the original cartoon, but that cartoon is arguably the most popular action cartoon ever created.

[Coola Yagami]

Are you saying that the 4Kids series wasn't popular? Because the 4Kids series did very well and was very popular. I don't think it ever reached the popularity of the original cartoon, but that cartoon is arguably the most popular action cartoon ever created.

ROFL not really. That kinda belongs to the Justice League and other DC related cartoons at the time. There are people now that still don't know there was a cartoon between the 80's version and current version. People that saw the 2007 movie had no idea who the hell Karai was despite her being a major character in the cartoon at the time.

[MikeandRaph87]

I always wondered if the season 8 direction could have stuck the show would have been precieved better by the then audience and held more regard for latwr by fandom . It was what the show needed, but Dregg and Carter and the secondary mutations were a bit much.

[Icebot]

Are you saying that the 4Kids series wasn't popular?

That's not what I meant. I meant the red sky episodes and 4kids cartoon would be very popular. I always thought the red sky episodes were similar to the 4kids cartoon. I'm saying if red sky came first, it would be a lot like watching the 4kids cartoon from the beginning.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Optimus Prime

A robot isn't killed even if it's artificial intelligence, just shut down/turned off or destroyed foor good!

However, I saw a Superfriends (Justice League) episode dated 1985 or something which showed Batman's parents getting killed (offscreen) outside the cinema. Two years later, TMNT was probably considered to violent with Hamato Yoshi's original background...

[Yabuturtle]

ROFL not really. That kinda belongs to the Justice League and other DC related cartoons at the time. There are people now that still don't know there was a cartoon between the 80's version and current version. People that saw the 2007 movie had no idea who the hell Karai was despite her being a major character in the cartoon at the time.

To be fair, they really didn't do a good job introducing her. I didn't even know who she really was until I looked her up because I only watched a handful of the 2003 series. I didn't know if the movie was a sequal to the TMNT 3 movie or it was a reboot or a remake or something. Instead it was something totally different and you'd have no idea what was really going on unless you watched the 03 cartoon. In fact there were a lot of things in the movie that wasn't explained very well and I was never a big fan of it, mostly because it was so vague.

[MikeandRaph87]

To be fair, they really didn't do a good job introducing her. I didn't even know who she really was until I looked her up because I only watched a handful of the 2003 series. I didn't know if the movie was a sequal to the TMNT 3 movie or it was a reboot or a remake or something. Instead it was something totally different and you'd have no idea what was really going on unless you watched the 03 cartoon. In fact there were a lot of things in the movie that wasn't explained very well and I was never a big fan of it, mostly because it was so vague.

I wrote off the lameness of Ninja Turtles III and TMNT as made for movie villain equals lesser quality product. It needs Shredder or Krang or Rat King at the very least.

What do you all think of the style differences of the first episodes that make up season one and the eight episodes that make up season 8?

Was it ever say why we have the low count of 8 for a season instead of thirteen? 8 just seems too small of an order of any cartoon or show for that matter.

[Wesley]

I wrote off the lameness of Ninja Turtles III and TMNT as made for movie villain equals lesser quality product. It needs Shredder or Krang or Rat King at the very least.

What do you all think of the style differences of the first episodes that make up season one and the eight episodes that make up season 8?

Was it ever say why we have the low count of 8 for a season instead of thirteen? 8 just seems too small of an order of any cartoon or show for that matter.

I don't remember much about the third tmnt film, but I thought the fourth one was decent. I liked the style differences of season one and eight. The episode Get Shredder blew me away when I was 8. I would have liked if those seasons had been a bit longer alright. Eight had a lot of potential.

I don't know why the last three seasons had a low episode count, but I'd guess that was down to tmnt's popularity being in decline and the high cost of making animation back then.

[ABrown]

ROFL not really. That kinda belongs to the Justice League and other DC related cartoons at the time.

You think that the DC cartoons of the 90's and early 2000's were more popular than the original TMNT cartoon? I don't know. That's highly debatable.

[Yabuturtle]

I wrote off the lameness of Ninja Turtles III and TMNT as made for movie villain equals lesser quality product. It needs Shredder or Krang or Rat King at the very least.

What do you all think of the style differences of the first episodes that make up season one and the eight episodes that make up season 8?

Was it ever say why we have the low count of 8 for a season instead of thirteen? 8 just seems too small of an order of any cartoon or show for that matter.

I don't think Shredder, Krang or the Rat King could have saved those movies. They weren't very well written and the acting wasn't the greatest especially 3.

The red sky style is ok but the Turtles masks always look like they're angry. I never understood why there were so few episodes in 8. It needed 5 more.

[Coola Yagami]

You think that the DC cartoons of the 90's and early 2000's were more popular than the original TMNT cartoon? I don't know. That's highly debatable.

Oh no. Nothing could touch the original 80's cartoon. I'm talking about the near all-but-forgotten 2003 show. Honestly, if it wasn't for Nick's recent marathoning of this show, only people on this forum would have remembered it.

[miru]

Season 8 would have shifted into full 2K3 mode.

[neatoman]

Oh no. Nothing could touch the original 80's cartoon. I'm talking about the near all-but-forgotten 2003 show. Honestly, if it wasn't for Nick's recent marathoning of this show, only people on this forum would have remembered it.

I don't know about that either.

[Galactus]

Oh no. Nothing could touch the original 80's cartoon. I'm talking about the near all-but-forgotten 2003 show. Honestly, if it wasn't for Nick's recent marathoning of this show, only people on this forum would have remembered it.

I'm not so sure about that. I think when Nickelodeon took over fans had that fear however putting aside that they are re-airing the show and putting out DVDs I don't think the show would go unremembered to people in charge.

Even prior to the renewed attention it's been given I'd argue it seems to be have strangely emerged as the most influential version.

For all the talk of how much the newest show channels the Fred Wolf series I actually don't think it's that much relative to how much influence it takes from other versions like the Mirage comics and the Imagi movie (which in many respects was the '03 show in movie form) and the 4kids show itself. Specifically from that show we have the importance of Karai, the idea she's Shredder's adopted daughter, the Purple Dragons as a recurring threat, Hun and now the Earth Protection Force. You're also not telling me that it was lost on anyone at Nick that Donatello and April had a mutual affection in the 4kids series (albeit played much more subtly)

The IDW comics use many of the concepts and characters from the 4kids show right out of the gate.

Even the new movie took a lot of visual elements of the 4kids show. Squint and Shredder's armor is basically from that show right down to using that version's Foot insignia. The similarity was so self evident that people for a while speculated that Sachs was an Utrom. Even the turtles themselves are a vague mashup of various versions including 4kids. All done through the over-the-top Michael Bay fun house mirror but it's there.